Products > Test Equipment
Siglent SDS800 Zoom out question (problem?)
KungFuJosh:
--- Quote from: nctnico on October 05, 2024, 07:55:29 pm ---The thing is that if you need to go back & forth a lot between horizontal positions and timebase, being able to zoom in/out horizontally / scroll left/right after making an acquisition is just easier for people as it saves a lot of fiddling with buttons and thinking about what settings are needed exactly. When dealing with a complicated problem / circuit, the last thing you need is test equipment being more complicated to operate than necessary. You have to be carefull not to confuse your personal preference with what other people like to do. Also keep in mind that your projects / workflow may be entirely different so capturing beyond the screen is not useful for you. But that doesn't mean capturing beyond the screen is useless for everyone!
--- End quote ---
These are touchscreen scopes, you can touch the screen to change positions, and then use the knobs if you need more accuracy. It's not that much fiddling these days.
Personally, I think the whole argument is silly. If you need to capture more than what's on screen, expand what's on screen. 🤷
nctnico:
--- Quote from: KungFuJosh on October 05, 2024, 08:28:50 pm ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on October 05, 2024, 07:55:29 pm ---The thing is that if you need to go back & forth a lot between horizontal positions and timebase, being able to zoom in/out horizontally / scroll left/right after making an acquisition is just easier for people as it saves a lot of fiddling with buttons and thinking about what settings are needed exactly. When dealing with a complicated problem / circuit, the last thing you need is test equipment being more complicated to operate than necessary. You have to be carefull not to confuse your personal preference with what other people like to do. Also keep in mind that your projects / workflow may be entirely different so capturing beyond the screen is not useful for you. But that doesn't mean capturing beyond the screen is useless for everyone!
--- End quote ---
These are touchscreen scopes, you can touch the screen to change positions, and then use the knobs if you need more accuracy. It's not that much fiddling these days.
--- End quote ---
The point still is that it is easier to have excess data (without having to do anything at all) versus needing extra data which isn't there. Better safe than sorry. It really is simple as that. Having a touchscreen or not makes no difference. I don't get why people insist on wanting to take something away as if their personal preference is the golden rule. :palm: Re-read and understand the post I wrote about left & right handed tools earlier on in this thread. There is nothing more to it but some seem to get religiously fanatic about being right.
Someone:
--- Quote from: Fungus on October 05, 2024, 04:24:29 pm ---Nobody's saying it can't be done the Siglent way, but it's not a natural workflow.
Nobody works zoomed out because you can't see anything, we all work zoomed in to see maximum detail of whatever we're looking at.
Siglent forces you to stop, zoom out, recapture, then go back in again to see if you managed to get what you wanted. Every. Single. Time.
--- End quote ---
Why keep bringing up this straw man argument? :horse:
If a user is knowingly wanting to capture something outside the screen to look at later then they would set that mode regardless if they were using "capture around screen" or "zoom window". No need/obligation/requirement to capture again.
Next you'll be telling us waveform update rates don't matter because the LCD screen only updates at 60Hz.....
Someone:
--- Quote from: nctnico on October 05, 2024, 08:41:09 pm ---
--- Quote from: KungFuJosh on October 05, 2024, 08:28:50 pm ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on October 05, 2024, 07:55:29 pm ---The thing is that if you need to go back & forth a lot between horizontal positions and timebase, being able to zoom in/out horizontally / scroll left/right after making an acquisition is just easier for people as it saves a lot of fiddling with buttons and thinking about what settings are needed exactly. When dealing with a complicated problem / circuit, the last thing you need is test equipment being more complicated to operate than necessary. You have to be carefull not to confuse your personal preference with what other people like to do. Also keep in mind that your projects / workflow may be entirely different so capturing beyond the screen is not useful for you. But that doesn't mean capturing beyond the screen is useless for everyone!
--- End quote ---
These are touchscreen scopes, you can touch the screen to change positions, and then use the knobs if you need more accuracy. It's not that much fiddling these days.
--- End quote ---
The point still is that it is easier to have excess data (without having to do anything at all) versus needing extra data which isn't there. Better safe than sorry. It really is simple as that. Having a touchscreen or not makes no difference. I don't get why people insist on wanting to take something away as if their personal preference is the golden rule. :palm: Re-read and understand the post I wrote about left & right handed tools earlier on in this thread. There is nothing more to it but some seem to get religiously fanatic about being right.
--- End quote ---
Fanatic? like you always leaving out the reasons and explanation, and pretending like no alternatives exist? Just to create the same fake argument which has been debunked over and over?
To claim that more button presses are needed is up to you to prove. Most scopes are multiplexing the zoom and horizontal controls so they are actually doing exactly the same thing with the same number of adjustments either way "capture around window" or "operate zoomed in". It is not taking something away, it is also adding (which you always dismiss/ignore).
MethodChange TimebaseChange ZoomView of Trigger+ Maximized- Reduced by as much as 1/2Memory Depth- Limited Steps+ Highly granularCapture Position- Fixed+ Freely Adjustable
All those items are model specific, so there is value in people discussing this politely and letting people know what the tradeoffs are for specific scope models (this thread title and opening post).
Equally using either of those methods will reduce the waveform update rate, which may be important to that particular user or not.
Making decisions on others behalf without understanding the specific needs and tradeoffs they are considering important is the backwards way to approach this and perpetuates this fake argument for yet another few years now.
electr_peter:
--- Quote from: Someone on October 05, 2024, 09:16:23 pm ---Why keep bringing up this straw man argument? :horse:
--- End quote ---
Who is using straw arguments here exactly? Let's burn some straws:
@2N3055's flawed argument - Keysight's "zoom out" should do miracles to get data around already captured on screen data in RUN mode (which in this context is not possible with normal scope). Additional capture around screen occurred later in STOP mode, thus no miracle occurred, thus "zoom out" is not useful. Q.E.D.
@Someone's flawed argument - user always knows best capture settings for each possible signal in advance and can do perfect capture on 1st try. It is not possible for user to select wrong settings, have doubts, second thoughts or additional insights in the process because all is known in advance. Thus no recapture is needed, ever. Thus "zoom out" has no value and can be ignored. Q.E.D.
Keysight's argument - user should get fast update rate in RUN mode because that's useful (extra memory beyond screen slows down things). User should get maximum memory in STOP mode, because that's logical and user would want that anyway (why limit the user?). So memory settings are reconfigured from RUN to STOP mode automatically. This gives fast update rate in RUN mode & max memory in STOP mode (which also allows zoom out if needed) & user is not limited & no recapture is needed (if user would want to look at data beyond screen).
Other scope brand's argument (like Siglent) - automatic modes are too confusing for users and/or too difficult to implement, so let's fix memory to the same size in RUN/STOP modes. User obviously knows in advance what memory settings to choose. It's user fault if scope is slow (too much memory in RUN mode) or there is no data beyond display (not enough memory in STOP mode). It's user responsibility to jump around like a jackrabbit and change settings for optimal performance in RUN/STOP modes.
@Someone, you would fit in with Siglent very nicely ;)
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