Products > Test Equipment
Siglent SDS800 Zoom out question (problem?)
electr_peter:
--- Quote from: 2N3055 on October 05, 2024, 11:23:10 pm ---
--- Quote from: electr_peter on October 05, 2024, 10:31:43 pm ---Who is using straw arguments here exactly? Let's burn some straws:
@2N3055's flawed argument - Keysight's "zoom out" should do miracles to get data around already captured on screen data in RUN mode (which in this context is not possible with normal scope). Additional capture around screen occurred later in STOP mode, thus no miracle occurred, thus "zoom out" is not useful. Q.E.D.
--- End quote ---
This is slander and complete lie. I never said that.
You are now lying and inventing what people said to prove you are right.
I said Keysight memory management when going into stop is not doing what most people think it does.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: 2N3055 on October 05, 2024, 01:30:47 pm ---Keysight does NOT do what you claim it does.
After stopping, you DO NOT have insight into what was around event that was on screen when you pressed STOP.
It does not "zoom out". It takes separate, later capture, at some completely different time, and shows you what was around that later event.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: 2N3055 on October 05, 2024, 01:30:47 pm ---Both ways you will get some random capture later.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: 2N3055 on October 05, 2024, 03:39:32 pm ---It is a trick and gives you absolutely the same result as "change timebase-stop" on all other scopes.
"Zoom out" specifically means to be able to show data before and after the actual event on the screen.
Keysight implementation does not do that. It haven't got "zoom out". Period. It is misleading, QED.
--- End quote ---
You imply multiple times that Keysight should work in "zoom out ultra" mode (as if it was advertised/guaranteed to do that, where?) but actually works in "zoom out plus" mode which is a trick/not "zoom out"/cheat/misrepresentation/lie and not even useful according to you. You always mention "capture later" thing as an extreme disadvantage. "zoom out plus" version specifics and benefits are very clear, that is exactly what Keysight does and says it should do. Yet you keep claiming otherwise.
You know much better than me that normal scope would be a molten puddle of gold (in terms of calculation power and cost) to be able to pull of "zoom out ultra" functionality. Which only differs from "zoom out plus" in corner cases, but at massive extra cost. And even if scope could do this, this zoom out thing would be on the very last page of new features, anyway.
You obviously agree there is "zoom out plus" functionality. If you say you don't use it much and or see much value in it, fine, I never had problem with this. But if you say it has no benefit at all in principle, you are blind.
Other function suite is mostly orthogonal to "zoom out plus", you can have one, other or both at the same time. But please don't spread BS as such feature has obvious value in some circumstances for other users.
Someone:
--- Quote from: electr_peter on October 06, 2024, 01:13:41 pm ---
--- Quote from: Someone on October 05, 2024, 11:13:36 pm ---There are two straight out lies which are being raised here once again:
Claiming that if you don't blindly capture around the screen then you will have to capture again. Despite that you can capture the entire interesting data without having to capture around the screen.
--- End quote ---
You move around the issue.
If STOP capture was made and was deemed to be too short, then with "zoom out plus" you may not need to make a new capture. With other scopes you do, there is no way out of this situation.
--- End quote ---
You can keep saying there is no possible way to achieve the same result, and we'll keep saying it is trivial.
a) Set the horizontal time base to the period you want to have captured. If you want a narrower/magnified view on the screen enable the zoom.
b) Same resulting capture as capturing around the screen (assuming they are set to the same memory depth).
c) Same resulting capture as the bonus capture some keysight models make when pressing stop (assuming they are set to the same memory depth).
If instead you have now moved the goalposts and are going to claim that this is all about the bonus (unreliable) Keysight capture on stop, then you need to say that upfront. Notice how I was not talking about c) but the comparison of a) and b).
--- Quote from: Someone on October 05, 2024, 11:13:36 pm ---
--- Quote from: electr_peter on October 05, 2024, 10:31:43 pm ---@Someone's flawed argument - user always knows best capture settings for each possible signal in advance and can do perfect capture on 1st try. It is not possible for user to select wrong settings, have doubts, second thoughts or additional insights in the process because all is known in advance. Thus no recapture is needed, ever. Thus "zoom out" has no value and can be ignored. Q.E.D.
--- End quote ---
If a user has set their scope to capture around the screen then they have explicitly made that choice (and the downsides it brings), which could equally capture the exact same data by using a longer horizontal sweep. Either way the user had to choose what horizontal capture period they wanted.
The comparison is what those two capture methods trade off, how they compare.
--- End quote ---
The Keysight bonus capture on stop, only captures repeating triggers that occur in a tiny window of time after the user presses stop. It is not a general solution for users wanting to capture data around a (low repetition) trigger in run mode.
electr_peter:
--- Quote from: Someone on October 06, 2024, 08:55:23 pm ---
--- Quote from: electr_peter on October 06, 2024, 01:13:41 pm ---
--- Quote from: Someone on October 05, 2024, 11:13:36 pm ---There are two straight out lies which are being raised here once again:
Claiming that if you don't blindly capture around the screen then you will have to capture again. Despite that you can capture the entire interesting data without having to capture around the screen.
--- End quote ---
You move around the issue.
If STOP capture was made and was deemed to be too short, then with "zoom out plus" you may not need to make a new capture. With other scopes you do, there is no way out of this situation.
--- End quote ---
You can keep saying there is no possible way to achieve the same result, and we'll keep saying it is trivial.
--- End quote ---
You are miss-reading my post and giving completely different meaning. I do not say anywhere that the is no alternative ways to achieve the same result (which should be even more clear if you read my post context with several following sentences which you didn't quote here).
I said that in specific circumstances without "zoom out" scope user is more limited than otherwise. Please read this conditional statement with clarifying comments carefully:
--- Quote from: electr_peter on October 06, 2024, 01:13:41 pm ---If[conditional] STOP [all capturing stopped] capture was made and was deemed to be too short [[1us display] only], then with "zoom out plus" you may not need to make a new capture [because there is memory beyond [1us display] and by increasing timebase you can see [100us display]]. With other scopes you do [need to enable RUN/SINGLE again and make new capture with longer timebase], there is no way out of this situation [other than new capture, because you cannot expand current [1us dislay]].
--- End quote ---
This is the main benefit. Also, if STOP happened to capture the very last occurrence of anomaly, you are SOL without "zoom out plus" (anomaly will not repeat, so you are stuck with limited [1us display] instead of full memory).
--- Quote ---...the bonus (unreliable) Keysight capture on stop...
--- End quote ---
Keysight feature is not unreliable, that is not what the word "unreliable" means. On scope it works according to the same logic every time. Signal and trigger conditions affect final result, but that is not "unreliable". If scope BSOD'ed or showed different results for the same conditions, that would be unreliable.
--- Quote ---The Keysight bonus capture on stop, only captures repeating triggers that occur in a tiny window of time after the user presses stop. It is not a general solution for users wanting to capture data around a (low repetition) trigger in run mode.
--- End quote ---
In such case user can press SINGLE, then scope will wait as long as needed to trigger and get full memory capture. Immediate benefit. Other ways to adjust scope settings are available, it is up to the user to find adequate setting.
Also, "zoom out plus" is not a general solution, nobody claims that. Primarily because word "solution" is not equal in meaning to "functionality". It is a bonus (your words) or a refined feature.
You seem to assign alternative meanings to words "if", "achieve", "(re)capture", "solution", "unreliable" and miss-read clear statements to give them opposite meaning. Considering your username I feel like a character in the legendary sketch "Who’s on First?" — Abbott and Costello
Maybe this leads to unfounded and incorrect assumption that Keysight functions in "zoom out ultra" mode (that would be super nice, BTW). "zoom out plus" is implemented as advertised and is a bonus nevertheless.
KungFuJosh:
4 guys from different countries including Lithuania, Croatia, Australia, and the Netherlands walk into a forum and argue semantics in English... :horse:
2N3055:
:-DD
--- Quote from: KungFuJosh on October 07, 2024, 04:16:08 pm ---4 guys from different countries including Lithuania, Croatia, Australia, and the Netherlands walk into a forum and argue semantics in English... :horse:
--- End quote ---
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