Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's

[Aldo22]

As does the SDS800X HD:

I suspected that too.
But how did markus_jlrb's question come about?
Is it not obvious enough?
He wanted to report an issue.

[ebastler]

But how did markus_jlrb's question come about?
Is it not obvious enough?

As discussed before: When dealing with sine waves, one may be tempted to assume that one knows what the "amplitude" is. Which is not what it means in oscilloscope parlance (and common electronics practice when dealing with unipolar signals).

The only way to avoid the occasional misunderstanding would be to avoid the "amplitude" term entirely. But I can't think of a good alternative, and changing it now would introduce even more confusion anyway. So we will have to live with the occasional thread about this, I guess...

[markus_jlrb]

The point is, honestly speaking, I use the measurements func. not very often.
As a user of SDS2104X, SDS5034X and now of SDS804X-HD and SDS3034X-HD
I'm more focused on the X-Y cursor functions and sometimes on FFT func when
not willing to start the SA.

So after more the five years of usage I was playing now a bit wit the new kind of
measurement menu not used to much before.

The time before purchasing Siglent devices I was playing with and using R&S and
Tek. staff. mostly in the area of analyzing sat communication eye-patterns and
base band signals as well as ham radio topics in the hobby surroundings.

My DOS knowledge is limited to the experience more located in the analog world
and I'm using the new instruments now not on a daily base but more sporadic.

So my learning curve is not to steep but is growing continuously and slowly.

The basic theory of sampling and triggering is known but the practical work with
the new devices lake some experience especially concerning the huge amount of
configuration possibilities that the new generation of such devices is capable of.


So please be patience with me If some questions are obvious to stupid at the first
glance.

Many thanks in advance.

Markus






 





 

[KungFuJosh]

The only way to avoid the occasional misunderstanding would be to avoid the "amplitude" term entirely. But I can't think of a good alternative, and changing it now would introduce even more confusion anyway. So we will have to live with the occasional thread about this, I guess...

If they changed the label to "SqW Amp." (Square Wave Amplitude) that could help, but it's unlikely anybody will make that change. Or if they made the amplitude behave differently depending on the waveform automatically (AI scopes? 😉), or if they offered different versions of the amplitude measurement for different waveforms to be manually set, etc.

[Grandchuck]

Maybe use magnitude for some cases?  AI happily spit the following out:

1/Magnitude refers to the size or extent of a quantity, often used in contexts like earthquakes or vectors.
2/Amplitude specifically describes the maximum extent of a vibration or oscillation, typically in waves.
3/Magnitude can apply to various physical quantities, including force, energy, and distance.
4/Amplitude is primarily associated with wave phenomena, such as sound waves or electromagnetic waves.
5/Magnitude is a scalar quantity, meaning it has size but no direction.
6/Amplitude can be considered a measure of energy in a wave; higher amplitude means more energy.
7/In mathematical terms, magnitude can be calculated using specific formulas depending on the context (e.g., vector magnitude).
8/Amplitude is often measured from the equilibrium position to the peak of the wave.

Both terms are crucial in physics but apply to different concepts and contexts.
Understanding the distinction helps in fields like physics, engineering, and signal processing.

[IssaP]

Because they cost money. Lower budget probes often don't come with springs.

That's a simple explanation and probably 99% true...

OTOH, I've got a set of 250 MHz Testec probes, not an expert, but they look quite good (LF and HF compensation, sharp gold plated tip, good strain relief etc.).

They come with the usual grabber and ground alligator lead, but they also include adjustment screwdriver, a spare metal tip, and a nice BNC to probe adapter.
Still no ground spring! 

Ground spring is very useful for measuring power supply noise, because of the proximity of the inductor, and noise. Or high speed digital signals.
Get yourself a set, they are like 2 EUR for 5 pieces (get the correct diameter)
www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006411386510.html
Honestly they are so cheap you might just use it as a solder in connection.

I am considering getting the SDS804X-HD, does somebody know what groundspring diameter I need to order for the included probes?
Also, is there a consensus from the experts if the included PB470 probes are good enough when going up to 200MHz (and a bit beyond) or would it be advised to get entirely different probes, like the Testec MX-312 for example (any other probes recommended)?
For the screen protector I would use one for the Steamdeck based on this post: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds800x-hd-12-bit-dsos-coming/msg5512936/#msg5512936
Anything else I forgot?

[tautech]

I am considering getting the SDS804X-HD, does somebody know what groundspring diameter I need to order for the included probes?

All the low BW probes here have 4.75mm Gnd barrells so a 4.5mm spring will be the correct fit.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004403890169.html

Also, is there a consensus from the experts if the included PB470 probes are good enough when going up to 200MHz (and a bit beyond) or would it be advised to get entirely different probes, like the Testec MX-312 for example (any other probes recommended)?

Expecting the 70 MHz probes to perform at 200 MHz will be pushing it IMO.

For the screen protector I would use one for the Steamdeck based on this post: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds800x-hd-12-bit-dsos-coming/msg5512936/#msg5512936

The toughened glass displays won't mark so needing an overlay is questionable IMO.

Anything else I forgot?

Things I use:
USB wireless mouse.
Cheap USB hub.
A WiFi connection or do you have a local LAN connection.

Welcome to the forum.

[ebastler]

I am considering getting the SDS804X-HD, does somebody know what groundspring diameter I need to order for the included probes?
Also, is there a consensus from the experts if the included PB470 probes are good enough when going up to 200MHz (and a bit beyond) or would it be advised to get entirely different probes, like the Testec MX-312 for example (any other probes recommended)?

The stock PP510 probes of my 814X HD came complete with ground springs. Is that different for the 804X HD probes?

I got the 814X HD because that made me more confident that the probes would also perform well at 200 MHz. There was a thread somewhere where probe performance was tested, and the PP510 far exceeded their 100 MHz nominal spec. Don't know about the 70 MHz probes.

Ah, this may be the post I was thinking of. mawyatt compares several probes, but points out that the results are relative, not quantitative:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds800x-hd-12-bit-dsos-coming/msg5404892/#msg5404892
 

[Martin72]

The stock PP510 probes of my 814X HD came complete with ground springs. Is that different for the 804X HD probes?

The probes that came with my SDS804 were without ground springs.

[tautech]

I am considering getting the SDS804X-HD, does somebody know what groundspring diameter I need to order for the included probes?
Also, is there a consensus from the experts if the included PB470 probes are good enough when going up to 200MHz (and a bit beyond) or would it be advised to get entirely different probes, like the Testec MX-312 for example (any other probes recommended)?

The stock PP510 probes of my 814X HD came complete with ground springs. Is that different for the 804X HD probes?

70 MHz probes < Basic with no accessories.
100 MHz probes < Includes Gnd spring
200 MHz probes < Includes Gnd spring and probe to BNC adapter fitting.

[g2]

Has anyone measured watt consumption on the Siglent SDS800X HD with e.g. 1 channel and 4 channels ?

[Furna]

Has anyone measured watt consumption on the Siglent SDS800X HD with e.g. 1 channel and 4 channels ?

https://www.siglenteu.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2024/07/SDS800X-HD_Datasheet_EN01D.pdf
Page 19
Power Supply
Input voltage & frequency: 100 ~ 240 Vrms 50/60 Hz
Power consumption: 80 W max., 40 W typical, 4 W typical in standby mode

I used a chinese socket with power measurment I usually visually check to understand how much voltage is available at my power strip.
I didn't record the values between 1 ch power on and 4 ch power on ...

I guess the bigger difference is how much CPU power you are using i.e. how much calculation/math you set up.

[g2]

Has anyone measured watt consumption on the Siglent SDS800X HD with e.g. 1 channel and 4 channels ?

https://www.siglenteu.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2024/07/SDS800X-HD_Datasheet_EN01D.pdf
Page 19
Power Supply
Input voltage & frequency: 100 ~ 240 Vrms 50/60 Hz
Power consumption: 80 W max., 40 W typical, 4 W typical in standby mode

I used a chinese socket with power measurment I usually visually check to understand how much voltage is available at my power strip.
I didn't record the values between 1 ch power on and 4 ch power on ...

I guess the bigger difference is how much CPU power you are using i.e. how much calculation/math you set up.

Thanks for the reply, Furna.

Actually, I would have liked to have measured how many watts the SDS800X HD consumes by standing idle with two channels on.
It is because I would like to buy it, but from
from what i've read the fan makes too much noise.
So the more watts, the more the fan has to run.

I have an oscilloscope rigol ds2072 (30 Watt), which I also thought was noisy. I then tried switching to a low noise fan, but it didn't help much. Then I thought that 2-3 degrees Celsius extra in the outlet air from the fan didn't mean anything, since I live in Denmark, and the device is also sold in Italy (and in Italy the temperature is usually higher). It helped.

[ebastler]

Actually, I would have liked to have measured how many watts the SDS800X HD consumes by standing idle with two channels on.

As Furna stated, it's safe to assume that the number of active channels does not have a significant impact on the power consumption. The overall sampling rate (2 GSa/s) stays the same and just gets divided across the channels, so the FPGA which handles the fast signal processing sees very similar workload. CPU load may vary a bit depending on how much math and measurements are active, but it won't have that much of an effect.

Most of these small 8" scopes have somewhat noisy fans, and people have installed low-noise fans and/or reduced the fan supply voltage in many different models. I have not heard about any adverse side effects as long as you don't overdo it. You have probably seen this discussion on the SDS800X HD, just a couple of weeks ago in this thread?  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds800x-hd-12-bit-dsos-coming/msg5695197/#msg5695197

I think the main question is whether you want to void your warranty and break the scope's factory seal right away. Why don't you order the scope, see whether you can live with the stock fan (at least for a while), and return it if you absolutely can't stand the noise? Personally I don't find the stock fan too bad -- and I am not totally immune to noise; I did hate it in the larger Rigol DHO1000 I bought a year ago.

[BillyO]

Actually, I would have liked to have measured how many watts the SDS800X HD consumes by standing idle with two channels on.

I just measured mine.  32W and it does not change based on the number of channels active.  Same 32W with none, 1, 2, 3 or 4 channels active.

[Conrad Hoffman]

FWIW and having a high end SPL meter and a SDS824X HD sitting on my desk in my cubicle, I measured it. The background noise is about 32-34 dB A-weighted. Turning on the scope and measuring about 1 foot in front of it I get 41.5 dB, A-weighted. A-weighting is necessary or the low frequency noise from the building air handlers would swamp out what we're interested in. I find the fan noise is a quiet roar (does that contradict?) that isn't really objectionable in a lab setting, but would be way too high if I were making any kind of acoustic measurements. I have a lot of space behind the scope, but it it were close to a wall, the noise would probably be a couple dB louder. I have to roll my chair about 15' away, just outside my cube, before the noise starts to blend in with the rest of the background. Hey, it's quieter than my Tektronix 545B!

[awakephd]

FWIW, I do generally do not notice the fan on my SDS804X. If something calls my attention to it (such as this thread), I realize, "Oh, yes, it does make some noise." But it is not that loud to me, and not objectionable (no high-pitch whine or something intolerable like that). So most of the time I just don't notice it.

[g2]

I have ordered the SDS804X from Batronix in Germany.
So I'm looking forward to it.
If I think the fan makes too much noise, there should be good options to reduce the noise. My old oscilloscope uses 30w and I have reduced the noise on it.

Thanks to tmeub Reply #1729 - 1730 for good temp measurements.
And thanks to Furna - ebastler - BillyO - Conrad Hoffman - awakephd for answering my question and good advice.

[Conrad Hoffman]

Also just pulled the trigger on a Siglent SDS824X HD scope and SDG2082X sig gen for home because of the 10% markdown on the scope. Now I need to clear out the much-loved but very large boat anchors.

[russw]

I am about to buy an SDS804X HD.  I'm sticking with the 70 MHz version, at least partially because this  thread makes it seem like it is possible to "upgrade" to the SDS824X HD by just changing the identifying string in the scope (not that I can find the instructions on how to do this for the life of me!).  The price point is also fantastic, of course!

I am aware that the probes that come with the 70 MHz scope will be lower bandwidth than the higher bandwidth models (and also, apparently, missing ground springs).

What I am very curious about is the following:

1. Have people actually had real/measured success with the "soft upgrade" on these scopes?
2. Is there a CPU-like "silicon lottery" here? i.e. Do some scopes upgrade better than others, and some not at all? Is there luck involved?
3. Is there any risk involved with doing the soft upgrade (aside from voiding warranty)?
4. Are there any other changes that result from the soft upgrade, other than the higher bandwidth and reported model not matching the faceplate label?
5. How is Siglent downgrading the scopes... are they running a DSP filter? It is interesting if they do (and I hope it is a FIR for constant group delay!!)

I'll be buying the SDS804X HD regardless, since the price point is just right for 4 channels... but I would definitely appreciate any insights into the rumoured upgrade process!

Also - first post!

[BillyO]

Welcome.

First, the instructions are all over this forum.  They are the same instructions for many of Siglent's instruments.  Try searching for "Siglent python script"

Next, it's not a "tweak" or a "hack" -  the afore mentioned script generates valid upgrade license keys.  It's nothing wishy washy, or tenuous, it's the real thing.  The same thing you would get if you paid Siglent for the keys.  Most of the other questions answers follow from this.  FYI - More than just BW can be improved via the script.

Siglent are not "downgrading" their scopes.  They are following industry practices of  building fully capable hardware that requires license keys to enable all functionality.  Most ADCs have different BW modes built in.  Siglent enables them based on license keys.  There are also processing options that can be enabled via valid keys.  No more, no less than what everybody else does.

Buy, play, enjoy and have fun!!!

[neosunrise]

I received my new SDS804X from TEquipment yesterday and spent some time experimenting with it today. While compensating the probes, I connected them to the front "CAL" terminal and pressed the "AUTO SETUP" button with the probe set to 10X. Unfortunately, it didn’t work as expected. The square wave kept shifting back and forth without stabilizing. The only way to force it trigger is to set Trigger Coupling to "LFR" but shouldn't AUTO SETUP work by itself on the square wave generated internally?

When I switched the probe to 1X and ran "AUTO SETUP" again, it triggered correctly. However, switching back to 10X caused the waveform to continue moving across the screen. Note that I only used the auto-setup feature and did not attempt to trigger manually. Auto-setup simply didn’t work in this scenario.

I recorded a video to demonstrate the issue. The same behavior occurred when using my ZOYI 703S as a signal generator. Interestingly, my ZOYI 703S and Hantek 5102P do not exhibit this issue — they correctly trigger regardless of whether the probe is set to 1X or 10X.

[BillyO]

I didn't see you put the ground clip on the ground terminal next o the CAL output.  That may not fix the problem, but you should get used to doing it as you may be picking up noise causing the trigger to be set off randomly. 

[neosunrise]

I didn't see you put the ground clip on the ground terminal next o the CAL output.  That may not fix the problem, but you should get used to doing it.

I tried but it didn't make any changes. Thanks for the reply though.

[BillyO]

I tried but it didn't make any changes. Thanks for the reply though.

The only other thing I can suggest is do teh following:

1) Remove all probes.
2) Set the system to default configuration.
3) Run self calibration.
4) Try again (with ground clip attached).

You'll find the default setting and self calibration in the Utilities menu branch.

Self calibration takes a while to run.  Go get a drink.