Author Topic: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's  (Read 657367 times)

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Offline pope

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2023, 03:47:01 pm »
the 1104x-e is only 2-channel math right?

Yes.

It would be nice to see some update for 4-ch math on the 1004x-e but I don't see it happening, especially now...
 

Offline mawyatt

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2023, 04:03:37 pm »
Announcing a product more than 9 months before releasing it is the embarrassing part, in my view.

I think you're confusing something here. There has never been any official announcement of an SDS1000X HD.

Tautech always likes to keep us informed and once started a thread about a newly released scope in China, without any international release date proposal. That's all.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1000x-hd-coming/

Of course there have been plans to release this scope in the rest of the world some day, but Siglent never communicated a release date. And anybody following the thread linked above would have noticed that there was some major redesign going on. The instrument that might get released in the first quarter of 2024 is not the same anymore which got released 6 months ago in China. The difference is not just firmware.

Yeah we had spotted this and why we recommended to a client to go ahead with the Rigol 824 as it was available now for the initial use which can change later if the new Siglent proves a better fit/value.

We still haven't committed for ourselves tho, the 824 is indeed quite good, but want to "see" what Siglent offers and don't mind waiting a few more months for such. Our trusted SDS2000X+s are working just fine thank you, so no urgency on our part ;)

Best,
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2023, 04:18:17 pm »
Fact that that DHO1000 you are about to receive has bugs in basic triggering after a more than a year..??
And bunch of other unfinished stuff..
In a ANOTHER year we'll see how much stuff they will fix..
I wish you luck.

Thanks for the compassion.  ;)

I wanted a 10" touch-screen scope. The only Siglent option within my budget, after it became apparent that the 1000X HD will not go beyond "teaser" status this year, was the 2000X plus. Which, as you know, I had actually ordered, and only switched for a Rigol DHO1000 when that became available at exactly half the price of the Siglent.

It was a difficult decision with mutiple tradeoffs (resolution vs. bandwidth, "interactive" vs. "analytical" use). The price did play a role, since the 2000X Plus was already well above what I had planned to spend initially. The SDS1000X HD might have been the better compromise for me, but who knows when and whether that will actually become available. I got scolded for my "this might not be the right time to buy a scope in this class" doubts in another thread.

So here we are -- I am very happy with the DHO1000 after a quick incoming check, and will dive deeper after Christmas. You might be weighing things differently than I do, but I did not read about any bugs or functionality gaps which I would consider severe for my intended use. (Clearly, your use or interest may be different.)

And after you announced you are buying it I did not try to persuade you out of it, and in fact had said that it is good deal for the money.  10" scope for that discounted price is good deal. As I already explained pro at contra (ad nauseam in fact) to you  and others I presumed you chose with good insight to what to expect and what you need. And that is more than enough for me.
As I said, I hope you will be happy with your choice.  I, for sure, weigh things differently, we are different people after all.
Your stance I find to be realistic. After you start using scope every day, please let us know how it goes.
In meantime Rigol might even fix few things..

To explain my point  (and my passion behind it): it is not fact that there are bugs that is alarming to me. As Fungus correctly stated, all devices will have some bugs to some extent at release. Problem is that Your DHO was released a year ago, and Thomas just today finds a bug with triggering. And that is not a problem per se. Problem is that these bugs are just weird. At certain trigger setting it does not work. It works in general, but at certain setting it does not. That is extremely problematic type of bugs that point to problems in testing and development (algorithms should work as a rule not as an exception).
To wit comes the "minefield". You never know when it will stop working. A Russian roulette of a sorts.
That vehemently disagrees with me. I rather they tell me it simply does not have that feature. I find that a great problem with instruments I'm supposed to trust. Implicitly.

At this point I don't, when this Rigol DHOxxxx sereis comes in question.With time, I will probably change that opinion when Rigol catches up with stuff..
 
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Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2023, 04:19:23 pm »
It would be nice to see some update for 4-ch math on the 1004x-e but I don't see it happening, especially now...

The SDS1000X-E have only one math channel, just like e.g. a Rigol DS1054Z.

As I've tried to explain multiple times, it's a matter of resources. Adding more math channels to a scope that works on the full record, which can be up to 14 Mpts in case of an SDS1000X-E is a bit more demanding than it would be on the Rigol, which works on the decimated screen data, i.e. some 1000 points.

The SDS1000X-E Series is on the market for seven years now, and you seriously expect a major feature upgrade? Yes, with Siglent such expectations aren't completely unrealistic per se, but after such a long time you can bet that there are valid reasons why it doesn't happen. And there certainly are; there just aren't that many resources (FPGA, memory) to spare.

It should be an easy task on a 1000-points math & measurements scope like the DS1054Z though, yet there's never been such an upgrade. But then again, Arduino tinkerers don't need math channels - they also don't need accurate measurements or even statistics ;)

« Last Edit: November 27, 2023, 04:24:56 pm by Performa01 »
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2023, 04:25:24 pm »
4. Better than "more than 8"..

Only if you know their definition of "typical" and what the caveat in note 1 is.

2. only in specific setting in useless UltraAcquire mode.

Does it acquire or doesn't it?

Typical here means "No worse than 8.4bit" in Rigol speak.

UltraAcquire mode kinda doesn't acquire. UltraAcquire mode is not normal but segmented mode. It has no measurements and math or decoding. You cannot do anything with it but show it on screen like CRT analog scope, with few interestingly looking visualisation modes. Nice trinket but I still have to see what specific use it has that cannot be accomplished with persistence...
 
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Offline Neutrion

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #30 on: November 27, 2023, 04:59:49 pm »
Why on Earth this ugly black (grey) color again? Really all marketing fuzzies have to follow each other blindly?
Or was there any kind of majority for it in some major studies? With the ninja scopers?

Please than have at least an optional white version, you just have to fill in some other plastic, (or if made on many lines, just have a few different settings on some of them) and if the plastic cost 1 Euro more, than the customer will happily pay the difference if it is a priority indeed.

And of course it would be nice to have some "sound management" in the design phase it also doesn't have to cost more.
 Also not good to not to have some bevel around the screen to protect when falling forvard or at transportation. And of corse please also with a matt screen if possible!

 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2023, 05:00:13 pm »
Typical here means "No worse than 8.4bit" in Rigol speak.

"More than 8" declares a minimum.

"Typical 8.5 *1" doesn't.
 

Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2023, 05:06:47 pm »
I think you're confusing something here. There has never been any official announcement of an SDS1000X HD.

Well, both the SDS800X HD and the 1000 X HD (back in March) were announced here by tautech. He is on a contract with Siglent, and it seems very clear to me that he only announces what Siglent authorizes him to make public. (He has made little hints with a "sorry, can't tell you more yet" disclaimer more than once. Which is fine, but tells me that what he does post, he has been authorized to release.)

So in my understanding, the SDS800X HD and the 1000X HD (a long time ago) have been "announced" here with Siglent's blessing.
What "seems very clear to you" has nothing to do with the truth. Tautech is just a ditributor; he certainly dosn't ask for permission when he copies some content from the Chinese website and makes a post in a forum. Since every interested person could do that, how should Siglent management prevent it?  ::)


The 1000X HD announcement, especially the one about the upgraded specs, has certainly derailed my decision-making process a bit and has left a sour aftertaste. Anyway, Black Friday business is over, Christmas and year-end business will be over soon, I have made my decision, and Siglent's release schedule is no longer my problem.  8)
Not sure what you're trying to tell us. Yes, Siglents schedule is quite obviously no longer a problem for you, thankfully so.

Enjoy your Christmas present!

 

Offline Antonio90

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #33 on: November 27, 2023, 05:21:37 pm »
I think you're confusing something here. There has never been any official announcement of an SDS1000X HD.

Well, both the SDS800X HD and the 1000 X HD (back in March) were announced here by tautech. He is on a contract with Siglent, and it seems very clear to me that he only announces what Siglent authorizes him to make public. (He has made little hints with a "sorry, can't tell you more yet" disclaimer more than once. Which is fine, but tells me that what he does post, he has been authorized to release.)

So in my understanding, the SDS800X HD and the 1000X HD (a long time ago) have been "announced" here with Siglent's blessing.
What "seems very clear to you" has nothing to do with the truth. Tautech is just a ditributor; he certainly dosn't ask for permission when he copies some content from the Chinese website and makes a post in a forum. Since every interested person could do that, how should Siglent management prevent it?  ::)


The 1000X HD announcement, especially the one about the upgraded specs, has certainly derailed my decision-making process a bit and has left a sour aftertaste. Anyway, Black Friday business is over, Christmas and year-end business will be over soon, I have made my decision, and Siglent's release schedule is no longer my problem.  8)
Not sure what you're trying to tell us. Yes, Siglents schedule is quite obviously no longer a problem for you, thankfully so.

Enjoy your Christmas present!
To be fair, Tautech has also shown a working prerelease scope, and yes, he has implied quite a few times that he cannot say more about something until authorized by Siglent.

This is not to bash him at all, but he is not "just" a Siglent distributor. He has early prototypes, some insider info, and goes out of his way to help people which doesn't make him any money. He is also in other brands threads talking about how Siglent products are better. I'd say he acts more as a representative than a mere distributor, for good and for ill, and whether he is a rep or not.

I agree, though, that it is not fair to attack Siglent for a "delay", as there has not been an official release date. But the "non official announcement/copypaste" made by Tautech probably has gained a client, as I'm waiting for an oscilloscope I wouldn't know exists otherwise, and it might have left a bitter aftertaste in other prospective buyers, following a couple of guesses about the release date, both of them pointing quite a few months before end of year.
 
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #34 on: November 27, 2023, 05:37:02 pm »
Typical here means "No worse than 8.4bit" in Rigol speak.

"More than 8" declares a minimum.

"Typical 8.5 *1" doesn't.

You asked for explanation. You got it. What do you want now?
You are not happy with the truth? When that ever stopped you from inventing alternate realities..?
 

Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #35 on: November 27, 2023, 05:48:06 pm »
Why on Earth this ugly black (grey) color again? Really all marketing fuzzies have to follow each other blindly?
Or was there any kind of majority for it in some major studies? With the ninja scopers?
The truth is that polls among engineers evaluating Siglent gear in some big labs indicated that the plastic cases, as they are now, make a cheap appearance. They suggested that simply a different (darker) color would change that impression. I certainly don’t think so, but I don’t make the decisions.

Siglent’s Western partner, LeCroy, have changed to black gear quite a while ago already – no wonder, their gear will be used in the same big labs…

Also not good to not to have some bevel around the screen to protect when falling forvard or at transportation. And of corse please also with a matt screen if possible!
You mean “bezel”, right? There it’s the same old story again.

People are ranting about the bezel, because it blocks sight to the borders when viewing at extreme angels. Without it, the touch screen is so much better to operate, especially the UI-elements in the corners can be hit so much easier.

Now Siglent have changed their ways and every new DSO since the SDS6000 has a flat screen up to the edges od the instrument – and now we get complaints again…

Apart from that, Siglent never have released gear with glossy screens.

 

Online KungFuJosh

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #36 on: November 27, 2023, 05:59:22 pm »
He is also in other brands threads talking about how Siglent products are better.

Meh. He's generally supportive and helpful, even if it isn't Siglent stuff. If he factually states a comparison when somebody asks about different models, that's not bias. He's not going into Rigol threads and shitting on them like some people do the for Siglent threads.
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Offline Neutrion

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #37 on: November 27, 2023, 07:05:02 pm »

Siglent’s Western partner, LeCroy, have changed to black gear quite a while ago already – no wonder, their gear will be used in the same big labs…
And they decided to do so because black is cool, and the others do it anyway...
Its like when someone decided to make a washing machine with a black door and all the other manufacturers followed suit. I think that the white parts of the scope is actually made (1104x-e) from quiet a nice plastic, and with black color the ambient lighting everywhere needs to be stronger so it is not only about the color itself. But than I don't have to persuade you anyway.

Also not good to not to have some bevel around the screen to protect when falling forvard or at transportation. And of corse please also with a matt screen if possible!
Quote from: Performa01
You mean “bezel”, right? There it’s the same old story again.

People are ranting about the bezel, because it blocks sight to the borders when viewing at extreme angels. Without it, the touch screen is so much better to operate, especially the UI-elements in the corners can be hit so much easier.

Now Siglent have changed their ways and every new DSO since the SDS6000 has a flat screen up to the edges od the instrument – and now we get complaints again…

Apart from that, Siglent never have released gear with glossy screens.

Yes, bezel I meant. It does not have to be super big just to have enough strength to save the glass from some impacts from tipping to the front or from transportation. Or maybe at least a small protruding part in the corner, which also goes a bit up and to the side out of the line of the glass.

And I hope it stays so without glossing in the future as well :)
BTW The glossy screen with laptops was also some kind of fashion stuff without any value. Unfortunately some scopes still have it.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2023, 07:06:47 pm by Neutrion »
 

Offline Antonio90

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #38 on: November 27, 2023, 07:21:42 pm »
He is also in other brands threads talking about how Siglent products are better.

Meh. He's generally supportive and helpful, even if it isn't Siglent stuff. If he factually states a comparison when somebody asks about different models, that's not bias. He's not going into Rigol threads and shitting on them like some people do the for Siglent threads.
I was not comparing nor starting a flame war. I know he is a very helpful member, I myself was following a thread in the beginners forum about PSU design in which he has helped a lot. Just to name an example.

I was talking WRT his attitude  to Siglent gear, and that he acts more as a rep than a mere distributor, precisely because he goes the extra mile. And he is also present in every Rigol thread talking about Siglent. That doesn't change whether other people do that too or not.
 

Offline Neutrion

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #39 on: November 27, 2023, 07:43:21 pm »
And one more thing. If this comes with touch screen than the screen size of the 1104x-e is a no go I think.
It doesn't need much more resolution but a bigger screen would be a must.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2023, 07:52:08 pm »
7" touch is still just about right, rigol has shown how it's done.
Judging by the photo, the screen resolution should also be higher than that of the 1104X-E.
If the data from tautech is correct, the part is really pimped up.
Until now, siglent had a clear model hierarchy, I'm curious to see which models will be scrapped.
And that puts an end to my puzzlement as to whether the 1000X HD or 3000X HD will be launched on the global market,  as siglent replied to me that an entry-level 12 bit scope will come onto the market here in Q1/2024.
Then 3000X HD is already out. :(
« Last Edit: November 27, 2023, 07:57:17 pm by Martin72 »
 

Offline Antonio90

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #41 on: November 27, 2023, 07:52:24 pm »
You can use it with a stylus. It's better with a bigger screen, but still quite useful nevertheless.
 

Offline tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #42 on: November 27, 2023, 08:03:48 pm »
And one more thing. If this comes with touch screen than the screen size of the 1104x-e is a no go I think.
It doesn't need much more resolution but a bigger screen would be a must.
Certainly a 10" (or larger) touch display is preferable for heavy touch use however with the mouse support SDS800X HD has, this can compensate for the smaller display.
The addition of a mouse is cheaper than a 10" display.


Some background, I only found out 800 HD was coming yesterday however some contacts already knew it was.
Siglent sent me the datasheet which at this time I am instructed not to share but I have picked out many key features to share with you all.
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #43 on: November 27, 2023, 09:15:36 pm »
And one more thing. If this comes with touch screen than the screen size of the 1104x-e is a no go I think.
It doesn't need much more resolution but a bigger screen would be a must.
Certainly a 10" (or larger) touch display is preferable for heavy touch use however with the mouse support SDS800X HD has, this can compensate for the smaller display.
The addition of a mouse is cheaper than a 10" display.


Some background, I only found out 800 HD was coming yesterday however some contacts already knew it was.
Siglent sent me the datasheet which at this time I am instructed not to share but I have picked out many key features to share with you all.

This mouse support is one very nice advantage and due to 7" tiny display it really rise its usability lot of as it also do with 10" display version SDS1000X HD.  Every thing can do better with mouse than with touch - least in my use with my usage patterns.

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Offline Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #44 on: November 27, 2023, 09:26:11 pm »
I don't know whether siglent wants to fundamentally "touch" the user interface on my HD or the other touch models again, but if there is still a possibility with these model, they could think about designing the menus in such a way that you no longer have to scroll in the bar when there are more entries.
I find this so good with the MAUI from lecroy that everything relevant is visible at a glance and then also horizontally instead of as a vertical bar.
I have to admit that the rigol dho models are almost as good.
Everything at a glance, including shortcuts to related settings.
Really good and "better" for my perception and use.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2023, 10:36:16 pm by Martin72 »
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #45 on: November 27, 2023, 09:38:28 pm »
Every thing can do better with mouse than with touch - least in my use with my usage patterns.

Yes, but finger/stylus is MUCH faster and more direct.

 

Offline Neutrion

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #46 on: November 27, 2023, 09:57:38 pm »
And one more thing. If this comes with touch screen than the screen size of the 1104x-e is a no go I think.
It doesn't need much more resolution but a bigger screen would be a must.
Certainly a 10" (or larger) touch display is preferable for heavy touch use however with the mouse support SDS800X HD has, this can compensate for the smaller display.
The addition of a mouse is cheaper than a 10" display.



How much more would be a 10"-er, or 8-9"? So no more resolution just a bigger screen. Of course you could not use the 1104x-e front mold what seems to be a point here, but for touching it would be a major plus.
Also for people with not so perfect eyesight, or if you sit a bit further away. On a 7" even with perfect sight, letters and numbers are a bit too small. You have to sit close to it.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #47 on: November 27, 2023, 10:02:57 pm »
If you prefer 10", siglent and rigol also have scope models in this size.
You don't have to buy a 7" if you don't want it.

Offline tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #48 on: November 27, 2023, 10:06:23 pm »
And one more thing. If this comes with touch screen than the screen size of the 1104x-e is a no go I think.
It doesn't need much more resolution but a bigger screen would be a must.
Certainly a 10" (or larger) touch display is preferable for heavy touch use however with the mouse support SDS800X HD has, this can compensate for the smaller display.
The addition of a mouse is cheaper than a 10" display.
How much more would be a 10"-er, or 8-9"? So no more resolution just a bigger screen. Of course you could not use the 1104x-e front mold what seems to be a point here, but for touching it would be a major plus.
Also for people with not so perfect eyesight, or if you sit a bit further away. On a 7" even with perfect sight, letters and numbers are a bit too small. You have to sit close to it.
8" displays were last seen in the SDS1000X models, before X-E and would require significant rework of that older case and add unneeded cost to SDS800X HD.

SDS1000X HD OTOH uses the SDS2000X HD 10" display enclosure with minor mods and exclusion of some SDS2000X HD HW to help keep costs lower.
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Offline Neutrion

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #49 on: November 27, 2023, 10:33:33 pm »
If the market segmentation is "artificial" and not coming  from a technical reason, but just screwing people,
than the competition will fill the gap. Maybe GW instek if not Rigol.
So I don't think this is the reason.

I am sure all what Siglent is looking for is to please other manufacturers. :)
But the original small displays were from an era where the display cost was also a factor. Now they are cheaper. And the bigger modells have also more resolution which is way more complicated than having the same resolution in a bigger size.

 


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