EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: Par3689 on July 03, 2019, 07:01:39 pm
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I am in the market looking for good lap PSU. In my budget Rigol and Siglent PSU are fitting nicely.
Price difference between both of them is around $100 where I live. So far Siglent seems to be a good option with higher resolution and accuracy.
Dave has used both of them. It will be great if he can do shootout comparison between the two of them
I wanted to ask those owning both or anyone who has used both of them which one they prefer to use and why?
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So far Siglent seems to be a good option with higher resolution and accuracy.
Is that after either have been hacked where possible?
You should be looking at the DP832A specs to compare.
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The SPD3303X compares to the DP832A, as mentioned, and the lesser versions of both have lower resolution.
The topic comes up in almost every budget power supply thread, so there will be most of the depth of answers, but I'll summarize why I went with the Siglent and ended up getting a second:
Smaller form factor
Cheaper
Slightly more rated power output
The Siglent is by no means a perfect instrument, the UI has a strange "feautre" where the arrow keys under the encoder wheel change between voltage/current/etc and the "Fine" key changes the digit for the wheel... which is backwards to everything else. It also only has the three voltage options on the third rail and does not monitor its voltage or current on a display... but it's been a fine unit to work with and the hack is quite easy to perform for the extra digit of voltage and current resolution.
The Rigol is also solid, and especially if you're only going to have one on your bench and have a requirement for a different auxiliary voltage or a current readout on it, it would be a better choice, but for me, cheaper and smaller got me to purchase the Siglent and I don't regret it.
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I've only got two units of the Rigol DP800 series (purchased when there wasn't the SPD3303X available) but after using them for considerable time, I would still again get these for the decimal keypad they offer. My experience is that I virtually never use the rotary encoder for setting voltages / currents but I rather just dial them in. Much faster and less hassle. Today I wouldn't buy a "mainstream" PSU without a decimal keypad, except maybe for very special applications (I've got a HV (0~400V / 1A) supply by HSPY with incremental adjustment only and I hate the U/I). My 2ct.
Cheers,
Thomas
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You should be looking at the DP832A specs to compare.
Specs wise I agree but price wise there is huge difference, not sure about quality comparison
Price wise SPD3303X and DP832 are comparable that's why I am looking at these models
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The DP832 can be hacked into an 832A so the price difference doesn't matter if you just want to compare specs.
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The DP832 can be hacked into an 832A so the price difference doesn't matter if you just want to compare specs.
But the SPD3303X-E can be hacked as well, so the best comparison if you're willing to hack (and they are both easy) is the SPD3303X-E and the DP832.
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The DP832 can be hacked into an 832A so the price difference doesn't matter if you just want to compare specs.
But the SPD3303X-E can be hacked as well, so the best comparison if you're willing to hack (and they are both easy) is the SPD3303X-E and the DP832.
Why wouldn't you compare to what they are after hacking(X to A)? Why compare before hack specs?
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Here's a review on youtube made last year comparing the DP832 to a stack of Korad linear power supplies. You may not want to get the Korad units, but I found what he had to say about the DP832 to be very enlightening.
https://bit.ly/2YHzv5q
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Why wouldn't you compare to what they are after hacking(X to A)? Why compare before hack specs?
Didn't realize you were specifically talking specs, the Siglent also comes with a lower price point. But yes, I would compare the two lowest end model prices with the specs of the units they can be unlocked to. If you don't want to do the hack, for whatever reason, then compare the two within the pricepoint, which would be the SPD3303X and the base DP832.
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I own both these Power Supplies. Here are my thoughts after about a year of ownership...
The binding posts on my Siglent are 'weak' in that, for a lot of banana plugs, the slightest bump on the wire will make them fall out - and that's after I got new posts from Siglent and modified them (I did a post on it here (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-spd3303x-e-binding-post-issues-solved/msg1443560/#msg1443560)). I know the thread says 'solved' but I still have trouble with them. The binding posts on the Rigol are perfect.
The noisy fan on the Rigol annoyed me so I replaced it (I did a post on it here (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/dp832-fan-replacement-2018/msg1453635/#msg1453635)). It's been near-silent and worked well ever since that modification.
The Rigol can be converted up to a DP832A with a 'magic' USB drive and a single command, the thread on that is here (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/need-help-hacking-dp832-for-multicolour-option/msg2514498/#msg2514498). I checked calibration after converting mine to a DP832A and it was perfect.
I much prefer the UI of the Rigol, especially the 'pie chart' mode which has grown on me and the circular number pad is also very usable; on the Siglent all you can do is move the cursor to the number you want to change and turn the knob.
The Siglent has a problem that I have to crouch down to be at eye-level with the display to see the values that I'm changing but, if you used it in a setup where it was already at eye level, that would not be an issue. The Rigol display is clear from any angle.
On Channel 3, the Siglent can only do 2.5, 3.3, or 5 V and is 'limited' to 3.2A which makes it almost useless for powering small circuits that you want to limit current draw on. The Rigol has 5V, 3A on Channel 3 but it is fully adjustable in every respect. One downside of Ch 3 on the Rigol is that Ch2 and Ch3 share the same ground but the Siglent is fully independent (I think).
If I had to choose 1, it would be the Rigol, I feel it's bigger, better, beefier engineering and the UI is way better.
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I own both these Power Supplies. Here are my thoughts after about a year of ownership...
The binding posts on my Siglent are 'weak' in that, for a lot of banana plugs, the slightest bump on the wire will make them fall out - and that's after I got new posts from Siglent and modified them (I did a post on it here (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-spd3303x-e-binding-post-issues-solved/msg1443560/#msg1443560)). I know the thread says 'solved' but I still have trouble with them..................
Surely you're not still using these POS substandard and short banana plugs ? :scared:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-spd3303x-e-binding-post-issues-solved/?action=dlattach;attach=401428)
You spent how much on PSU's and not on decent leads ? |O
It's clear in the thread you linked the modern standard for banana plugs is some 20mm long and quality plugs nearing that length have no issues in the SPD PSU's.
I'm gunna call BS on 'weak' Siglent binding posts and call 'weak' on POS banana plugs.
You have of course modified the binding posts and in removing some of the insulating material from the hole to allow your substandard plugs to be inserted further you have done yourself no favors and actually created a problem that you point the finger at Siglent instead of yourself. :palm:
Finally again:
You spent how much on PSU's and not on decent leads ? |O
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I own the spd3303x, no problems indeed with the post. I use mainly https://www.google.nl/search?q=Hirschmann+MLN (https://www.google.nl/search?q=Hirschmann+MLN) connectors. Very nice to work with (32A and still flexible) and go in snug and tight.
If you cut them in half, you get 2 wires which eaxh can have a pin or other connector on them.
I used very cheap "gold" plated banana plugs, but those are not worth looking at them. (But they even fitted ok)
Then its better to solder 2 cm of 1 mm solid wire to your flex wire, heat shrink it and use the binding post (vertical) hole. That gives also an excellent connection for almost no cost.
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Entering values is indeed a bit of a hassle, but when it must be changed frequently, then selecting only a single well chosen digit en rotating the value up or down mostly suits the situation (watching for changes).
But it isn't something I personally would give high priority. I think it even has presets, but I don't use them.
It also possible to send SCPI commands to set values when many different voltages are required. If you spend money on something programmable, then use it :-+
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It would be nice to have a keypad on the SPD-3303, but I'm not sure I would want the size of the unit to increase in order to accommodate one. I agree the arrow and fine buttons are a little cumbersome, but the rotary dial makes it easier.
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Surely you're not still using these POS substandard and short banana plugs ? :scared:
You spent how much on PSU's and not on decent leads ? |O
It's clear in the thread you linked the modern standard for banana plugs is some 20mm long and quality plugs nearing that length have no issues in the SPD PSU's.
I'm gunna call BS on 'weak' Siglent binding posts and call 'weak' on POS banana plugs.
You have of course modified the binding posts and in removing some of the insulating material from the hole to allow your substandard plugs to be inserted further you have done yourself no favors and actually created a problem that you point the finger at Siglent instead of yourself. :palm:
Finally again:
You spent how much on PSU's and not on decent leads ? |O
I'm SHOCKED, SHOCKED! that Tautech, a Siglent Distributor is attacking me for being cheap and blaming what is clearly a defective design on me for having "POS" plugs. And no, my modification doesn't create a problem, it allows the plugs to get some sort of grip. Maybe the binding posts have been updated but the ones on my SPD3303X (including the replacements sent to me by Siglent that took hours to change) only provide a loose fit for cheap and expensive banana plugs.
So please apologize for your petty attempt at shaming me for simply reporting what's actually a problem with a Siglent product (or are you claiming that all Siglent products are flawless?)
I think I'll make a video highlighting the crapness of my SPD3303X's binding posts.
I'm calling BS on Tautech for clearly being a biased Siglent shill.
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Get some decent plugs and you’ll have no problem. Period !
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Get some decent plugs and you’ll have no problem. Period !
I do own some decent plugs and they are much looser in my SPD3303X than my DP832, so much so that a knock on the wire can and does cause them to pop out.
If the plugs are the issue, how come the same plugs work just fine in all my other PSUs including the Rigol DP832?
Your ad-hominem attacks on me are beyond the pale, I didn't say my Siglent SPD3303X is crap, I was making a genuine observation on an aspect of a product that I purchased went to all the trouble of fitting replacement binding posts sent to me by Siglent. Notice that I haven't brought up how awful Siglent were over the return of my defective Scope.
You are out of line to personalize this discussion (apologies to the OP for having to put up with this).
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Tautech, without even owning any of the supplies I think it is clear that the siglent will be the lesser. Just look at about every review out there and what Dave highlights in his teardowns. Siglent is always built down to the lowest price point. After all you get what you pay for. If you want to sell them that is up to you but it is pointless going around arguing the toss with every user that has a problem! Who's photo was that you put up? what exactly is wrong with those plugs?
If you want to sell something that people won't have problems with go sell something else or deal with it!
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Tautech, without even owning any of the supplies I think it is clear that the siglent will be the lesser. Just look at about every review out there and what Dave highlights in his teardowns. Siglent is always built down to the lowest price point. After all you get what you pay for. If you want to sell them that is up to you but it is pointless going around arguing the toss with every user that has a problem! Who's photo was that you put up? what exactly is wrong with those plugs?
If you want to sell something that people won't have problems with go sell something else or deal with it!
Respectfully Simon, Gandalf_Sr problems with his SPD3303X-E are of his own making.
It is true the banana sockets in early versions were loose as Dave discovered in his early vid when these units were first released. Replacement sockets were made available to those that requested them and Gandalf_Sr took this offer.
Still not satisfied with them he chose to modify them further so to use his shorter plugs and now today he's the only one I've ever heard of with a problem !
Would you not like me think his modification could cause his problems ?
Well I do and other members that own these PSU's don't seem to be mentioning plugs falling out and neither do customers that I've sold these units to.
I have no more to say about this issue other than to call out BS when I see it.
Edit to drop this here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZASKMqgrY70 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZASKMqgrY70)
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To add some objectivity to the discussion. I used a luggage weigher which I attached to a Hirschmann connector, reading the "force" it takes to pull out a connector. All posts where tested and the lowest one was about 2.0 Kg.
The cheap shorter connectors indeed suck, because they don't go in deep enough, so their thickest part is on the edge of going in. That indeed leads to very little friction. (But they not completely loose as might have been the case in early units. It's mostly not a matter of width, but of length)
So there's a nuance to be made.
Calling it BS is too harsh. Because it is indeed a property of the PSU that longer banana plugs have a much better grip. However demoting the whole PSU for it is also too harsh IMO.
I had purchased a Korad before the Siglent, I even had one replaced because of the fan noise. But that one had the same annoying sound. That same sound can be heard in one of the video's posted above. I guess it's due to low frequency PWM. For me that its a sign than something is build down to the lowest price. Why not solve that before putting it into the market? It drove me nuts. (So also no loud fanned Rigol for me)
I use the power supply in various ways (probably more than the average user, I think) but I haven't found anything (yet) that was disappointing.
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Tautech, without even owning any of the supplies I think it is clear that the siglent will be the lesser. Just look at about every review out there and what Dave highlights in his teardowns. Siglent is always built down to the lowest price point. After all you get what you pay for. If you want to sell them that is up to you but it is pointless going around arguing the toss with every user that has a problem! Who's photo was that you put up? what exactly is wrong with those plugs?
If you want to sell something that people won't have problems with go sell something else or deal with it!
i cannot follow this reasoning. Every product should be evaluated on it's own. I don't think Dave was too happy about his Rigol either. He just calls it a crap PSU after getting them Rohde & Schwarz psu's.
That video seemed to be quite biassed to the positive side of a "real brand".
We all know "brand" attribution has real power to influence customers. To me it seems to be in the best interest of us all, that we don't judge the wine on its bottle. This will not lead to better products, only to overpaid marketing specialists.
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overall Rigol seem to hit a bit higher and cost that bit more. Owon, Hantek and siglent seem to be companies that came after Rigal made a good entry to the market and are trying to compete at the low end with Rigol by trying to be as cheap as possible and so the build quality is a little worse. Sure there is variation on units.
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I tried both supplies and ended up liking the Rigol significantly more. The interface was easier and more intuitive. The build quality also "felt" better, which I think is important when you're constantly poking and prodding buttons and controls. In terms of specifications at this price point, I don't think you can go wrong with either one, though.
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I've owned precisely 2 Siglent products, they were both early model versions and they both had issues that Tautech acknowledges exist(ed). The scope had the probe calibration issue and it was returned for a refund after a month-long fight with Siglent USA in which Tautech told me in a PM that he thought that Siglent USA had their heads where the sun doesn't shine. I still own the PSU.
Problem to reflect on now is that, when someone like me has issues with a purchase that they genuinely try to fix, even using parts sent to them by the OEM how is it that, when said parts don't fix the problem, it's suddenly all the purchaser's fault too? My problems are not "all of [my] own making".
And when buyer like me studies the problem and makes a simple modification to ameliorate the problem, Siglent dealer calls me "cheap", says my observations are "BS", and refuses to apologize when called out on it.
I will NEVER buy Siglent again and I certainly wouldn't buy any brand from a dealer with Tautech's attitude.
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The Rigol can be converted up to a DP832A with a 'magic' USB drive and a single command, the thread on that is here (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/need-help-hacking-dp832-for-multicolour-option/msg2514498/#msg2514498). I checked calibration after converting mine to a DP832A and it was perfect.
Does this also add the LXI capability to the non-A version? This is a real differentiator to me, now that LabView can be had for 50$.
Btw a bit a higher price point, but maybe worth considering: At least in Germany you can get the Rohde & Schwarz NGE103 with all options for 946€ delivered.
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Does this also add the LXI capability to the non-A version?
The LXI capability option requires a license key on the DP832, but is a standard feature on the DP832A. I'm not sure if just doing the "DP832->DP832A" modification will unlock that feature automatically, but fear not, if you Google for "RigLOL", you'll find the key-generator that lets you enable all the options, including LAN/LXI, on the DP832 anyway. :-+
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The Rigol can be converted up to a DP832A with a 'magic' USB drive and a single command, the thread on that is here (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/need-help-hacking-dp832-for-multicolour-option/msg2514498/#msg2514498). I checked calibration after converting mine to a DP832A and it was perfect.
Does this also add the LXI capability to the non-A version? This is a real differentiator to me, now that LabView can be had for 50$.
Btw a bit a higher price point, but maybe worth considering: At least in Germany you can get the Rohde & Schwarz NGE103 with all options for 946€ delivered.
The simple answer is yes, you can add the LXI.
With Riglol you can add all the features for the DP832 except the fancy pie chart display; I'd been in that situation for a while then found the magic USB drive solution which, for me, made my DP832 into a DP832A.
There is no firmware difference between the DP832 and DP832A; the DP832A front bezel has some color coding that matches the colors of the pie chart and these are not a big deal, I'm thinking about using sharpie markers if I can find suitable colors. I'm pretty sure that the magic USB route will give you all the functionality of the DP832A once you convince your DP832 that it's really an 'A' version but, even if that doesn't work, Riglol will.
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the DP832A front bezel has some color coding that matches the colors of the pie chart
Thinking about it, it probably wouldn't take much effort to 3D-print a few small pieces that would fit over each pair of binding posts for the DP832 to replicate this color coding. Maybe this will be my evening project. I only have blue and purple filament, could be an excuse to pick up a roll of yellow, too...
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I did a quick check on the Rigol DP832 and saw a review of a dutch customer mentioning a 30uA current and +-50V AC potential between the posts and ground.
I had to check this for my Siglent SPD3303X-E, and it was 420mV AC (@10 Mohm), and maybe 0,0420 uA of current.
What does it mean? In the Netherlands (and I guess many more countries) one of the mains wire (neutral) is connected to earths ground. If there is capacitive coupling between the primary and secondary windings then that can be measured between earths ground and one or both of the outputs of a channel.
This is not a problem until earths ground is added somewhere to a circuit (scope or signal generator or just earthing). When it does it, the AC voltage can then give unexpected results. I know because I had to debug a situation with a supply of my own making (70V AC @ 10Mohm). It's those toroidal core transformers that are prone to these issues. Primary and secondary windings are then relatively close to each other. With those transformers it is better (and more expensive) to have some shielding between primary and secondary.
To be honest I'm glad the Siglent seems to be OK regulated down. There will alway be some coupling, but there's a difference between 70V AC and 420 mV AC.
Each post has its own degree of coupling (different secondary winding):
1) 420 mV
2) 258 mV
3) 108 mV
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Did you check all the transformer taps on channels 1 and 2 ?
You might be able to identify them by their relays switching.
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I did a capacitance measurement between the Siglent posts and GND, its 100 nF for each of them. So that is probably how they turn down the voltage (100nF @ 50hz = 32KOhm) and not using an expensive shielded transformer. But it is better than having a high AC voltage. The max current (uA) it can drive will however not be lowered by it. I cannot measure such low currents with my instruments, so I cannot provide info on that, maybe someone else can. (The capacitors may also have some unwanted side effects on their own. But I cannot think of some right now).
It is something to keep in mind. Because this coupling can also interfere between circuits with different supplies (or channels of a single supply) that have capacitative coupling as well (no connection to earths ground is than even needed for that interference).
Edit:
Using the 32K as a current shunt, the calculated current would than be:
1) 13 uA
2) 8.1 uA
3) 3.4 uA
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Did you check all the transformer taps on channels 1 and 2 ?
You might be able to identify them by their relays switching.
My quick measurements where done outside the device.
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Thank you for sharing your experience Gandalf_Sr
One downside of Ch 3 on the Rigol is that Ch2 and Ch3 share the same ground but the Siglent is fully independent (I think).
In which scenario this can be problematic for Rigol PSU?
Connecting Siglent Ch 2 and Ch 3 in series does not have much advantage
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Thank you for sharing your experience Gandalf_Sr
One downside of Ch 3 on the Rigol is that Ch2 and Ch3 share the same ground but the Siglent is fully independent (I think).
In which scenario this can be problematic for Rigol PSU?
Connecting Siglent Ch 2 and Ch 3 in series does not have much advantage
Scenarios where you need 3 separate floating power supplies are not doable with the Rigol setup. I run a project right now that needs -12, +12, and +3.3V which I can do as long as I use Ch2 for the +12 and then link the +ve of Ch1 to the -ve of Ch2/3.
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Hello everybody
I had the Rigol DP831 and Siglent SPD3303X-E. Compared to the Siglent SPD3303X-E the operation and equipment of the Rigol DP831 is much better. But the loud fan in the Rigol is very disturbing. For this reason I decided to use the Siglent SPD3303X-E. The fan is very quiet.
Greetings from Germany. Rolf
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Hello everybody
I had the Rigol DP831 and Siglent SPD3303X-E. Compared to the Siglent SPD3303X-E the operation and equipment of the Rigol DP831 is much better. But the loud fan in the Rigol is very disturbing. For this reason I decided to use the Siglent SPD3303X-E. The fan is very quiet.
When I replaced the fan in my DP832 I found out that the main reason for the noise is not the fan but the air inlet of the housing. This can be enhanced relatively easy. I showed details here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/dp832-fan-replacement-2018/msg2612937/#msg2612937 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/dp832-fan-replacement-2018/msg2612937/#msg2612937)
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Hi,
I don´t know what all this fuss is about that seemingly everyone is just interested in programmability of a supply.
I bet that for the vast majority of the useres the only things they need to ´program´ in their praxis are voltage and current.
For that a Siglent SPD3303C would suffice and it´d be a better value than the Xs and 832s.
If there´s demand you could program the 3303C via software also.
I´d rather buy two 3303Cs instead one X or 832. :popcorn:
regards
Calvin