Siglent SSA3021X Relection Measurement Function "Problem"

[MilesHoover]

All,
I received a Siglent SSA3021X spectrum analyzer for Christmas 2024. It came with several "upgrade functions" activated for 120 hours. Everything seems to work correctly except the "Reflection" function.  When I select MODE-Reflection, the reflection screen appears. On the right side of the screen, under Mode, the Reflection block should have a right arrow that gives access to the Reflection sub-menu functions. There is no arrow to access the sub menus. The "system" information mode indicates the Reflection option is installed, valid, and has over 114 hours of available use time before the option expires. Has anyone experienced this problem and possibly found a solution? I tried the Factory Reset with file erase, but it did not remedy the issue. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Miles
AI7YM

[tautech]

All,
I received a Siglent SSA3021X spectrum analyzer for Christmas 2024. It came with several "upgrade functions" activated for 120 hours. Everything seems to work correctly except the "Reflection" function.  When I select MODE-Reflection, the reflection screen appears. On the right side of the screen, under Mode, the Reflection block should have a right arrow that gives access to the Reflection sub-menu functions. There is no arrow to access the sub menus. The "system" information mode indicates the Reflection option is installed, valid, and has over 114 hours of available use time before the option expires. Has anyone experienced this problem and possibly found a solution? I tried the Factory Reset with file erase, but it did not remedy the issue. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Miles
AI7YM

Welcome to the forum.

Is this the Plus model or not ?
120hrs clocks down anytime the analyzer is ON.
Reflection should be used in conjunction with a Return Loss bridge.

[MilesHoover]

It is not a Plus model.  I am using it with a 1 Mhz to 1Ghz return loss bridge. When I select Mode, then Reflection, the instrument will not show the "right facing triangle" that indicates there are levels of submenus.  The procedure I am following is the Siglent RBSSA3X25 Reflection Bridge Manual from the Siglent website which shows the detailed procedure step by step. This procedure shows the submenus in detail. My instrument does not indicate there are submenus.  I have more than 112 hours left on the clock for all the options. Any thoughts? I'm amazed that this doesn't work as the remainder of the SA's functions work flawlessly.   Thanks for your help.

[MilesHoover]

As an additional question, in the system settings, there is a Factory Reset option. I've been hesitant to use the Factory Reset as it may delete/erase the time left on the clock for the 120-hour options. If I was confident the hours would remain, I would do the Factory Reset. I want to see the reflection measurement (S11 parameters) work on my unit before I purchase the "Reflection/VSWR measurement kit (SSA3000X series)" from Siglent.  Thanks for your help.

[tautech]

It is not a Plus model.  I am using it with a 1 Mhz to 1Ghz return loss bridge. When I select Mode, then Reflection, the instrument will not show the "right facing triangle" that indicates there are levels of submenus.  The procedure I am following is the Siglent RBSSA3X25 Reflection Bridge Manual from the Siglent website which shows the detailed procedure step by step. This procedure shows the submenus in detail. My instrument does not indicate there are submenus.  I have more than 112 hours left on the clock for all the options. Any thoughts? I'm amazed that this doesn't work as the remainder of the SA's functions work flawlessly.   Thanks for your help.

Okay, 2 things.
Is the latest firmware installed ?
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Spectrum_analyzer/SSA3000X_V2.1.1.4_EN.zip

As the RLB is coupled with both TG and RF In, you probably are required to Normalize the RBL and cabling out of the measurement.
Normalizing will also remove the bridge loss (attenuation) for measured levels to be correct.

Perform the Normalize and the Reflection menus should become available.
Only have SVA1032X to do any tests with and even their SA mode is a little different.....

[tautech]

Further guidance on using a RLB is in the RBSSA3X20 manual.
https://www.siglenteu.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Siglent-RBSSA3X20-Reflection-Bridge-Manual.pdf

There they instruct with no DUT connected to press Cal Open Load.

Later in Amplitude you can adjust the Ref level to suit the DUT measurement result.

[MilesHoover]

I have the latest firmware 2.1.1.4.  I followed your instructions below but no luck.  I normalized the cabling and bridge without a DUT connection. I then selected the Reflection Function, but still no submenu. I know it has to work, just cannot figure it out.

Do you have any thoughts about performing a Factory Reset and whether a Reset will delete my remaining option hours?  I still have 108 hours remaining.

Thanks, I appreciate all your advice.

[tautech]

Checked SVA1032X and just as I remember there is no Reflection option in SA mode as VNA mode is used for this using the internal bridge.
Then compared to NIB SSA3021X Plus just had out to do our PD checks so grabbed a screenshot after updating to the latest firmware as we always do.

Nothing is greyed out in the SSA3kX Plus Reflection menu, see screenshot and please grab and post one from yours to compare.
I'm suspecting a bug....ALL options must be available to new purchasers for the trial period, no exceptions !

[MilesHoover]

I think it is some kind of bug.  The file I attached is what I see when I select Reflection. Regardless of what I do, I can't go past this spot. Any idea what I need to do if this is a bug?  Thanks, I appreciate all your help.

[tautech]

I think it is some kind of bug.  The file I attached is what I see when I select Reflection. Regardless of what I do, I can't go past this spot. Any idea what I need to do if this is a bug?  Thanks, I appreciate all your help.

Can you engage/select Reflection from the Measure menus ?

[MilesHoover]

No. Nothing happens if I select Reflection in the photo I most recently sent.  It just stays on that screen. Was there ever a firmware version 2.1.1.3R?

[tautech]

I think it is some kind of bug.  The file I attached is what I see when I select Reflection. Regardless of what I do, I can't go past this spot. Any idea what I need to do if this is a bug? 

Leave this with me and I'll do more research and maybe have a chat with Tech support @ Siglent HQ.
Another hour or so and they'll be at work.

[MilesHoover]

You are super! Thanks for your help.

[seronday]

Miles,
I have access to an  early version SSA3021X, ( Hardware ver 07.03.00 produced in 2017 ), with FW 1.2.9.3a.
This unit behaves exactly as described in the Siglent RBSSA3X25 Reflection Bridge Manual.

Unfortunately I can not install and test the firmware ver that you are using as it is not compatible with this early HW ver.

This may not be relevant, but I have noticed that in the latest version of the user manual for the SSA3000X,  ( UM0703X-E03B ), all reference to the "Reflection Measure Mode", that were in the previous ver of the User Manual, ( UM0703X-E02B ),  have been removed.

As far as I am aware , the Factory Reset will only return the instrument to some pre-defined settings and will not change the trial times for the options. At least it never has for me on Siglent or on other brands of equipment.

Hopefully Tautech will be able to find an solution for you.

Regards.

[MilesHoover]

tautech,

Have a Happy New Year!

This note is to add a little extra information to my previous posts. When I select System, the serial number returned is  SSA3XNEQ7R0216. This matches the serial number on the barcode attached to the unit's rear and the serial on the Siglent Calibration Certificate.

The unit was calibrated on 2023-08-09.  If I read the date format correctly it is 9 August 2023.  Logic would indicate that the instrument was manufactured before that date, maybe from a few weeks to a month.

The calibration certificate states it was tested for "Appearance Test, Function Test, Performance Test and Safety Test". That would indicate that it met all specifications and operated correctly on 9 August 2023.
 
The firmware version on my unit is 2.1.1.4 released on 8 September 2023. Which is approximately a month after it was calibrated. The previous version of the firmware was 2.1.1.3R1. The dates would indicate my unit was calibrated and fully tested at the Siglent factory with version 2.1.1.3R1 and later updated to 2.1.1.4.

It is possible (probable) that after the firmware update to 2.1.1.4, it was not fully functionally tested before shipment.

Probably, it worked correctly with 2.1.1.3R1 and the update to 2.1.1.4 caused the current problem condition?

2.1.1.4 fixed issues with 2.1.1.3R1 but created others.

Hopefully, this made sense.


 

[tautech]

tautech,

Have a Happy New Year!

This note is to add a little extra information to my previous posts. When I select System, the serial number returned is  SSA3XNEQ7R0216. This matches the serial number on the barcode attached to the unit's rear and the serial on the Siglent Calibration Certificate.

The unit was calibrated on 2023-08-09.  If I read the date format correctly it is 9 August 2023.  Logic would indicate that the instrument was manufactured before that date, maybe from a few weeks to a month.

The calibration certificate states it was tested for "Appearance Test, Function Test, Performance Test and Safety Test". That would indicate that it met all specifications and operated correctly on 9 August 2023.
 
The firmware version on my unit is 2.1.1.4 released on 8 September 2023. Which is approximately a month after it was calibrated. The previous version of the firmware was 2.1.1.3R1. The dates would indicate my unit was calibrated and fully tested at the Siglent factory with version 2.1.1.3R1 and later updated to 2.1.1.4.

It is possible (probable) that after the firmware update to 2.1.1.4, it was not fully functionally tested before shipment.

Probably, it worked correctly with 2.1.1.3R1 and the update to 2.1.1.4 caused the current problem condition?

2.1.1.4 fixed issues with 2.1.1.3R1 but created others.

Hopefully, this made sense.

Yep, can follow all that.

To put any firmware concerns to rest, roll back to an earlier firmware to see if it makes any difference.
https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?ProId=29

[MilesHoover]

I received an email from Jim Wilson at Siglent North America in Cincinnati Ohio. He requested I download the link below:

https://mega.nz/file/9VpRgTaa#XX6f7m_3nUMwgK8avXpAoWEp5iCyV8SMSN1SqeLxn_k

The file is a system file upgrade to V2.1.1.6R1.  I installed the file and now my system reports the firmware version to be 2.1.1.6.R1.  There is no change in the symptoms.

I'm at wit's end.

[tautech]

I received an email from Jim Wilson at Siglent North America in Cincinnati Ohio. He requested I download the link below:

https://mega.nz/file/9VpRgTaa#XX6f7m_3nUMwgK8avXpAoWEp5iCyV8SMSN1SqeLxn_k

The file is a system file upgrade to V2.1.1.6R1.  I installed the file and now my system reports the firmware version to be 2.1.1.6.R1.  There is no change in the symptoms.

I'm at wit's end.

Nearly there too but I have HQ Tech support on the case and confident they will tell us what's going on but if a updated firmware is required that might take a few weeks.

[MilesHoover]

Thanks for all your help.

[tautech]

I think it is some kind of bug.  The file I attached is what I see when I select Reflection. Regardless of what I do, I can't go past this spot. Any idea what I need to do if this is a bug?  Thanks, I appreciate all your help.

So does the menu become available when you press the button next to Reflection ?

Working with HQ tech support on this now.....

[MilesHoover]

Tautech

When I press the button, the button "area" changes to a gray area with white letters indicating the button was pressed.  Then the button and the screen return to exactly how it was before as though it was not pressed, ie no screen change and no menu change.

Thanks,
Miles

[MilesHoover]

Tautech,

Another thought: Notice the blue sweep progress line on the screenshot above. It does not appear on any other screen. It is not on any screen when the unit measures/displays spectrum analysis. It only appears on this Reflection screen and does not change. I'm not sure if this is related.

Thanks,
Miles

[dazz1]

Hi
At Tautech's request, I tested the Reflection function of my Siglent SSA.
For the setup, I used my DIY reflection bridge which has similar performance to the Siglent version. 
After doing the open circuit calibration, I connected a 50ohm load.
I then connected my biconic antenna just as a realistic DUT.

Photographs show the sequence of screen shots, starting with the system configuration.

The cat supervised the test procedure.
My DIY reflection bridge was connected in the same way the Siglent version is connected.
System information screen including firmware version and software options enabled.

[dazz1]

A continuation of testing the reflection mode of the Siglent SSA.

Attached is a sequence of photos showing screen shots of mode selection, calibration, 50ohm test load, and the return loss of my DIY biconic antenna.
As part of the test setup, I configured the frequency range and band width in the normal way.

Normally you would expect a flat response from a 50ohm load. A 1m cable was between the open circuit and the 50ohm test load.  The periodic response was due to cable reflections.  This is not a reflection (pun intended) of the performance of the reflection bridge.  This test setup was just a demonstration of the use of the reflection bridge and the SSA functionality.  In both cases the inclusion of a 1m cable messes up the responses, but provides something interesting to look at.  So if you are thinking of writing a reply telling me my test setup is bad, don't bother.  I already know. 

Pressing "Mode" and selecting "Reflection Meas"
shows a screen with the option to "Cal Open Load"  Image 17 and 18 are out of order. 
From this point, the reflection mode is calibrated and operational. 
For demonstration purposes I then show a 50ohm test load reflection loss and,
The reflection loss of my Biconic antenna.

[MilesHoover]

dazz1/tautech,

First, I trust the cat to supervise, he appears to be in charge. Next, I don't see anything on my unit that is similar to the screenshots of your unit. What I see when I select system information, is shown on my screenshot attached below. Everything is different than your system information screenshot. In particular, the hardware version of my unit is 01.00.00.  That's a strange hardware version number for a unit made and calibrated in September 2023?

The next two shots are "After pressing the mode button", and "After pressing the Reflection button".

Notice on "After pressing the mode button", there is no indication of a submenu right caret (after the word reflection) as shown in your screen captures.

Notice also that on "After pressing the Reflection button" nothing changes.

Thank you for everything. I hope this issue can be resolved, rather than having to return it to Amazon for a refund. I have two more weeks before the date after which I can't return for a full refund.  If I have to return it, I will then purchase a new SSA3021X directly from the Siglent website.

Thanks again for your help.