Rigol 5074 vs Siglent SDS2104X Plus vs Keysight DSOX1204G

[nichrist]

Hi,
The three models are extensively reviewed in the past but I think now that are in the mature phase it would be helpful from end users, or any others with relative knowledge, to point out their positives and negatives. For a starting point I did a research and I made a comparison chart.

                       Rigol 5074                               Siglent SDS2104X Plus                Keysight DSOX1204G
                  4 channels                                4 channels                             4 channels
Bandwidth   70MHz                                        100MHz                                     70MHz
Sample rate   8GSa/s 1ch, 4GSa/s per 2ch             2GSa/s 2ch, 1GSa/s per 4ch         2 GSa/s (1 or 1/2 channel operation)
Sample rate   2GSa/s per 4ch                        1 GSa/s (3 or 4 chl operation)
Mem depth      100Mpoints 1ch, 50 per 2ch        200Mpoints per 2ch             2 Mpoints (1 or 1/2 channel operation)
                   25Mpoints per 4ch                        100Mpoints per 4ch             1 Mpoints (3 or 4 channel operation)
WF update    500,000 waveforms/sec                480,000 waveforms/sec           200,000 waveforms/sec
Segmented memory   ?                                         ?                                       Yes
Resolution            8bit                                            8bit (10bit mode)                8bit
Probes           4 Passive Probes 350 MHz      4 Passive Probes 200 MHz      4 Passive Probes 200 MHz
WaveGen   2 Channel 25MHz                          1 Channel 50MHz +-3V      1 Channel 20MHz
Bode Plot                    Yes?                                              Yes                                Yes
Serial prot   I²C, SPI, UART/RS-232, CAN, LIN   I²C, SPI, RS232/UART, CAN, LIN         I²C, SPI, UART/RS-232, CAN, LIN
FFT                             Yes                                             Yes 2Mpts                        Yes
Display            9'' capacitive multi-touch screen   10.1'' TFT LCD touch (1024x600)     7-inch TFT LCD WVGA
Connectivity   USB, LAN, and HDMI                              USB, LAN                         USB 2.0 (host anddevice), LAN
Noise floor        (Not good)?                          80μV rms at 500MHz BW         ?
               
Cost (included 19%VAT)
                             1.050 €                                                  1.430 €                    1.430 €

Regards

[tautech]

Additional comments
SDS2000X Plus models are a 500 MHz design.
SDS2104X Plus proven -3dB BW is ~185 MHz.

Current promotion includes some free options:
https://www.siglenteu.com/news-article/save-up-to-e1464-with-a-new-sds2000x-plus-oscilloscope-and-option-bundle/

[tv84]

The three models are extensively reviewed in the past but I think now that are in the mature phase

Dave should insert in the forum a "stock ticker" bar with the arguments of each scope so that we are always update... 

[Fungus]

That chart completely ignores the fact that everybody around here hacks them to unlock more features (eg, 350MHz bandwidth)

[Elasia]

A hacked unit is more likely to be at full bandwidth ie 550-600MHz -3db... 350 is just a marketing stunt targeted at business

[nctnico]

A hacked unit is more likely to be at full bandwidth ie 550-600MHz -3db... 350 is just a marketing stunt targeted at business

I guess you mean the Siglent? The Rigol 5000 is useless for HF without 50 Ohm inputs.

[Noy]

The siglent has no real 50 ohm input for what i know..
Its only a 50 ohm termination resistor..
Not a lot better than an external through termination on a rigol.

[mawyatt]

The siglent has no real 50 ohm input for what i know..
Its only a 50 ohm termination resistor..
Not a lot better than an external through termination on a rigol.

The Siglent SDS2102X Plus we have (enabled with the help of folks on here  ) has a return loss of better than -20dB to >500MHz, it's -38dB @ 100MHz (SWR 1.02), -41dB @ 200MHz (SWR 1.01), and -29dB @ 350MHz (SWR 1.07). Measured -3dB bandwidth is >600MHz, not too bad an input IMO, and certainly easier than fiddling with external BNC terminations!!

Best,

[DeepLink]

I tried several scope's before deciding on a Siglent SDS2104X+ (and did transform that into a SDS2354X+ incl. all options)

Each have their own requirements
Mine selection list is here

Screen.
The Rigol was not very bright
The Keysight was only 7" and as I'm getting older I wanted something bigger
(Even tried the R&S RTB2000, but it had so much reflection)
The Siglent has a good screen, but I would have liked a 12"

Options.
Rigol and Siglent has the possibility to unlock it all
Keysight is quite expensive to increase BW or options
Rigol and Siglent can be upgarded with 16 digital channels (not possible on the Keysight)

User Interface
Rigol was not very polished and I found it to be a little "messy"
Siglent is much more my way (but I always will prefer separate controls for each channel)
Siglent's speed is ok, but not snappy (as my old HP 54645D)

Probes
The Rigol and Keysight are missing probe detection interface
As I had some Agilent probes, I wanted my scope to detect it properly
The probes on entry level scope are not that good from any brand

I ended up with the Siglent SDS2104X+ and have no regrets so far (still learning)
(A Keysight MSOX4000 would be a dream scope for me, but totally out of reach)

[Karel]

In that price range I would go for a Rohde & Schwarz RTB2002 (or a RTB2004).

[2N3055]

In that price range I would go for a Rohde & Schwarz RTB2002 (or a RTB2004).

And pray tell, what would that price range be? 3000€? 2000€ 1000€ ?

[Karel]

In that price range I would go for a Rohde & Schwarz RTB2002 (or a RTB2004).

And pray tell, what would that price range be? 3000€? 2000€ 1000€ ?

Cost (included 19%VAT)
                             1.050 €                                                  1.430 €                    1.430 €

RTB-2002     1559 €   VAT included

RTB-2004      2142 €    VAT included     ok, this one is outside of the price range 

[2N3055]

In that price range I would go for a Rohde & Schwarz RTB2002 (or a RTB2004).

And pray tell, what would that price range be? 3000€? 2000€ 1000€ ?

Cost (included 19%VAT)
                             1.050 €                                                  1.430 €                    1.430 €

RTB-2002     1559 €   VAT included

RTB-2004      2142 €    VAT included     ok, this one is outside of the price range 

RTB2002 is a 2 ch 70MHz scope without segmented memory, protocol decodes, only 10 MS memory per channel, no digital channels, no signal generator, no bode plot option....

So to compare it with siglent SDS2104X+ you need to buy RTB-2004 (for 4ch) , 100 MHz bandwith upgrade (380€) and option bundle (1500 €).. A 4000 € worth... In which case you are better of just buying full option package RTB2K-COM4 SA for 4050€..

Or a Siglent SDS5034X for a one class up scope, for 500€ less, which buys you decent enough standalone AWG, that you can use for bode plots up to 120 MHz with the scope.....

R&S is a legend of a company...
But despite that, RTB2000 series is fancy looking but completely unremarkable scope with too high price..
It should start at 100 MHz (keeping the price of 70MHz) and have full option bundle included in price to be competitive. Also, not having 50 Ohm inputs is just lame for a 350 MHz scope.

Just look at their marketing that is completely untrue :"10 Msample memory depth is available on each channel if all channels are active. When interleaved, 20 Msample are available. That is 10 times more than comparable oscilloscopes offer. This captures longer signal sequences for more analysis results."

That is actually exactly opposite. Several cheaper scopes have 10 times MORE memory than that....

In last few years since they released 2000/3000/4000 series, many things happened. They need to adapt and change or perish...
Being a legend means you were once great, old glory stories.

My biggest regret is that R&S, in their corporate narcissism and greed killed off HAMEG brand.
They should have kept it and use that to make and sell affordable but good equipment. That way they could have kept segmentation to normal/premium markets, but still provide decent instruments.
The way it is now, they are deliberately giving you as little as possible... So you have reason to buy higher models...

And it might be working for them on their primary market. Same as Fluke, who targets industry and really don't care about other markets.
But in general, open market R&S is not competitive at all with 2000 series, not until you  reach 3000/4000 series that  compete in different area... And that is not set in stone either, and depends on many factors..

[tv84]

They wanted to say That is 10 times LOWER than comparable oscilloscopes offer.

[nctnico]

They wanted to say That is 10 times LOWER than comparable oscilloscopes offer.

That depends on how you compare. There are sveral things that make the RTB2000 series way better compared to the other oscilloscopes listed. Take full memory decoding and the way decoding is displayed for example. Or 10 bit resolution, high resolution screen, good user interface. If you are going to spend serious money then it is a good idea to see what else is out there. And it is not entirely true that the RTB2000 offers less memory. With segmented recording on it offers up to 320Msamples per channel. That is 3 times more compared to to the Siglent (which has the deepest memory of the scopes mentioned by the OP). You just can't use it for a single trace which is a bit of a bummer.

[2N3055]

They wanted to say That is 10 times LOWER than comparable oscilloscopes offer.

That depends on how you compare. There are sveral things that make the RTB2000 series way better compared to the other oscilloscopes listed. Take full memory decoding and the way decoding is displayed for example. Or 10 bit resolution, high resolution screen, good user interface. If you are going to spend serious money then it is a good idea to see what else is out there. And it is not entirely true that the RTB2000 offers less memory. With segmented recording on it offers up to 320Msamples per channel. That is 3 times more compared to to the Siglent (which has the deepest memory of the scopes mentioned by the OP). You just can't use it for a single trace which is a bit of a bummer.

I know exactly how I compared. RTB-2004 is 70 MHz 4 CH scope without anything. Anything. No segmented memory at all, no decodes of anything, no signal gen, no bode plot. Nothing.
With 10 Mpoints per chanel (20 interleaved). It literally is less capable than Micsig STO1104E.
For low price of €2380. 

Siglent SDS2104X Plus has 100 MHz bandwidth, it comes fully unlocked (except MSO license and hardware), and has 100 Mpoint/CH (200 interleaved). It also has more memory in segmented mod, don't know how much  now...
For whooping €1427...

Once you unlock R&S to have same set of capability (except memory, that will always be 10 times less than SDS2000X+) RTB2004 will cost more than €4200..

It is that simple. Nothing complicated with that.

For €4200 you can buy better scope than RTB2000.. Or you can buy 3 (that's three) SDS2104X+ and equip 3 workplaces with a scope....

While I do agree with you that there are some things on RTB2000 user interface that are (at the moment) more polished than they are on SDS2000X+ now, there is nothing justifying three times the price...

RTB2000 outpriced itself from a category. I consider it to be a failed model. It is not capable enough to be fully pro, and too expensive for what it is..

[tv84]

RTB2000 outpriced itself from a category. I consider it to be a failed model. It is not capable enough to be fully pro, and too expensive for what it is..

For RTB to be competitive, we would also have to go the LIY route.  (LIY = license it yourself)

[nctnico]

They wanted to say That is 10 times LOWER than comparable oscilloscopes offer.

That depends on how you compare. There are sveral things that make the RTB2000 series way better compared to the other oscilloscopes listed. Take full memory decoding and the way decoding is displayed for example. Or 10 bit resolution, high resolution screen, good user interface. If you are going to spend serious money then it is a good idea to see what else is out there. And it is not entirely true that the RTB2000 offers less memory. With segmented recording on it offers up to 320Msamples per channel. That is 3 times more compared to to the Siglent (which has the deepest memory of the scopes mentioned by the OP). You just can't use it for a single trace which is a bit of a bummer.

I know exactly how I compared. RTB-2004 is 70 MHz 4 CH scope without anything. Anything. No segmented memory at all, no decodes of anything, no signal gen, no bode plot. Nothing.
With 10 Mpoints per chanel (20 interleaved). It literally is less capable than Micsig STO1104E.
For low price of €2380. 

Siglent SDS2104X Plus has 100 MHz bandwidth, it comes fully unlocked (except MSO license and hardware), and has 100 Mpoint/CH (200 interleaved). It also has more memory in segmented mod, don't know how much  now...
For whooping €1427...

That €1427 is wasted if the oscilloscope doesn't do what you need. Better spend 4k (RTB2k + option bundle) on a good instrument that does what you need from the start rather than spending 5.5k (1.5k for a POS + 4k for a good tool). Been there, done that. In the end you need a tool that works for you; if the RTB2k series is a better fit then the money is well spend. Not saying the RTB2k is always a better scope, it is just an example here to show price isn't everything.

Every time I look at Rigol and Siglent equipment there is something missing so I end up spending 'more' for a piece of equipment that actually fits my needs. Buying equipment just for the sake of being cheap just isn't a good idea. If those three SDS2104X+ from your example aren't up to the task then they are an utter waste of money.

[2N3055]

SDS2000X+ is BETTER scope than RTB2000.....
And cheaper..

RTB2000 is shining example of how today with western products more money doesn't necessarily mean better.

RTB2000 is typical of today western product: lot of style, design, big names  and blah performance.

R&S 3000 and 4000 series (and up of course) are serious, powerful products.
RTB2000 is not.. Just pretty, and fancy.

[nctnico]

SDS2000X+ is BETTER scope than RTB2000.....

Buzzzz wrong. Compared to the SDS2000X+ the RTB2000 has better memory management, full memory decoding, a higher resolution screen, on screen annotations, better display for protocol decoding, 10 bit ADC resolution, better UI and there are probably a few things I'm leaving out. In the end it just comes down to what is important to the prospective buyer.

For me personally the clumsy memory management in the Siglent scope and short memory in the Keysight scope are a hard fail so to me those scopes have zero value for money.

BTW I don't see how 'western world' comes into this discussion. You are aware R&S gear is made in eastern Europe?

[egonotto]

Hello

nctnico wrote: "And it is not entirely true that the RTB2000 offers less memory. With segmented recording on it offers up to 320Msamples per channel. That is 3 times more compared to to the Siglent"

The 320 Msamples are in interleaved mode. But a sample is as I know 16 Bit.

How is this by Siglent? There a sample is only 8 Bit, but how much memory is in segmented mode?

Best regards
egonotto

[2N3055]

SDS2000X+ is BETTER scope than RTB2000.....

Buzzzz wrong. Compared to the SDS2000X+ the RTB2000 has better memory management, full memory decoding, a higher resolution screen, on screen annotations, better display for protocol decoding, 10 bit ADC resolution, better UI and there are probably a few things I'm leaving out. In the end it just comes down to what is important to the prospective buyer.

For me personally the clumsy memory management in the Siglent scope and short memory in the Keysight scope are a hard fail so to me those scopes have zero value for money.

Eye candy and your bias.. Irrelevant to non Nicos of this world. Siglent are just fine if you use them after reading user manual. And Keysight scopes have short memory, which makes them bad for some uses. But they have a mile long list of capabilities that R&S RTM3000 doesn't have (like search on serial protocols, many measurements) that made me buy MSOX3104T over RTM3000.

BTW I don't see how 'western world' comes into this discussion. You are aware R&S gear is made in eastern Europe?

Seriously?  Berlin wall fell long time ago... But that statement might explain your struggle to change with the changing world....

[2N3055]

Hello

nctnico wrote: "And it is not entirely true that the RTB2000 offers less memory. With segmented recording on it offers up to 320Msamples per channel. That is 3 times more compared to to the Siglent"

The 320 Msamples are in interleaved mode. But a sample is as I know 16 Bit.

How is this by Siglent? There a sample is only 8 Bit, but how much memory is in segmented mode?

Best regards
egonotto

R&S 2000/3000/4000 have 10 Bit converters..
I don't have SDS2000X+ here so I can't check and tell you...

[mawyatt]

The SDS2104X Plus has 8 bit core ADCs that are expanded with software for higher resolutions up to 100MHz, which works surprisingly well IMO.

I've been using scopes probably longer than most here have been alive, over 60 years, and can say without a doubt the Siglent SDS2102X Plus is the most impressive value instrument we have ever owned. Don't have the other DSOs mentioned, so won't comment, but this Siglent scope continues to impress in every way and use, just like the post above about how good the input vertical amplifiers are. Everything about this DSO impresses, and leaves one feeling that it's a much more expensive instrument, from a much higher category, than the price tag indicates.

Best,