Author Topic: Siglent SVA1015X and SVA1032X 1.5, 3.2GHz Spectrum & Vector Network Analyzers  (Read 32836 times)

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Online hendorog

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Re: Siglent SVA1015X 1.5GHz Spectrum & Vector Network Analyzer (Coming)
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2018, 07:00:55 pm »
I have few more images about it which show the different mode. The unit was not connected to a signal or component. Would you like me to post them?

Definitely  :-+
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SVA1015X 1.5GHz Spectrum & Vector Network Analyzer (Coming)
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2018, 08:35:16 pm »
I have few more images about it which show the different mode. The unit was not connected to a signal or component. Would you like me to post them?
Well errrr, like does a bear shite in the woods ? YES !
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Offline KE5FX

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Re: Siglent SVA1015X 1.5GHz Spectrum & Vector Network Analyzer (Coming)
« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2018, 12:40:10 am »
Could you elaborate how you think the phase is being affected and how is this relevant if you are comparing the phase at the input to the output?

It’s a relative measurement after all.

It's a cute idea, but you're not really making a relative measurement if you can't monitor both channels simultaneously.  Apart from phase noise and drift over time, toggling the T/R switch will inevitably cause slight changes in loading at both the DUT and coupler outputs that will prevent you from being able to calibrate the measurement properly. 

To get it working at all, my guess is that you will literally have to spend more money on isolation amps than another receiver would have cost. 

It's interesting, though, in the sense that really good DC-microwave switches are becoming readily available.  You could make some people at Peregrine Semiconductor very happy with this topology.
 

Offline Neganur

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Re: Siglent SVA1015X 1.5GHz Spectrum & Vector Network Analyzer (Coming)
« Reply #28 on: March 11, 2018, 02:21:16 am »
I'm not sure why you are being so dismissive. This topology definitely works. You just need to save several sets of cal data.
Like I said, compared to 4 receiver toplogy it's crude. But yes it works and was merely to illustrate how this could be implemented in for example the Siglent.
Especially if they already have the spectrum analyzer part and a tracking generator, then it just needs a few components more to make it a VNA.

Can it be compared to a PNA from Keysight, certainly not :)

Phase noise on the Rigol DSA815 isn't spectacular either. And how much does an ERA-33SM cost nowadays as isolation amp, $1.77 a piece?
 

Offline KE5FX

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Re: Siglent SVA1015X 1.5GHz Spectrum & Vector Network Analyzer (Coming)
« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2018, 03:07:42 am »
I'm not sure why you are being so dismissive. This topology definitely works.

Definitely not being dismissive, although I would've been before the PE42020 came out.  What you posted could very well be what they're doing. 

But through personal experience I've learned that there are very few free lunches in a VNA block diagram.  Spectrum analyzers are downright trivial by comparison. 

As you get up into the GHz range, isolation in particular is hard
 

Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SVA1015X 1.5GHz Spectrum & Vector Network Analyzer (Coming)
« Reply #30 on: March 12, 2018, 10:15:03 am »
Sorry for my delay on posting the other images, Yesterday the forum was down and I didn't want to make mistakes.
As said, don't look at the signal since there was nothing connected to the unit.
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Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Siglent SVA1015X 1.5GHz Spectrum & Vector Network Analyzer (Coming)
« Reply #31 on: March 12, 2018, 11:11:29 am »
Do you get wafers with it? (credit to )
I'd like to make the world a better place but they won't give me the source code
 

Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SVA1015X 1.5GHz Spectrum & Vector Network Analyzer (Coming)
« Reply #32 on: March 14, 2018, 05:05:35 pm »
Probably the unit has an internal VSWR bridge which can perform one-port vector reflection measurements.
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Offline DC1MC

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Re: Siglent SVA1015X 1.5GHz Spectrum & Vector Network Analyzer (Coming)
« Reply #33 on: March 14, 2018, 05:23:35 pm »
Mail from Siglent:
Quote
Dear DC1MC,

Hope this email find you well!
This is Jie from Siglent, EU Sales.

Thanks for your visiting of our Siglent booth 4-306 at embedded world 2018 exhibition.
Glad to know that you are interested in our spectrum analyzer products.
Siglent products have the high quality test equipment with an excellent price/performance ratio.

For the details of our products, you can directly to visit our websites:
SSA3000X:
http://siglenteu.com/pdxx.aspx?id=1252&T=2&tid=18

The new spectrum analyzer with vector network analyzing function is not available now.
If you have any concerns, please feel free to contact with me.

Best Regards,
Jie
EU Sales

So yeah, not like it will be soon available :(

 DC1MC
 

Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SVA1015X 1.5GHz Spectrum & Vector Network Analyzer (Coming)
« Reply #34 on: March 14, 2018, 05:29:30 pm »
I guess before summer holiday
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Online nctnico

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Re: Siglent SVA1015X 1.5GHz Spectrum & Vector Network Analyzer (Coming)
« Reply #35 on: March 14, 2018, 08:13:48 pm »
I'm not sure why you are being so dismissive. This topology definitely works.

Definitely not being dismissive, although I would've been before the PE42020 came out.  What you posted could very well be what they're doing. 

But through personal experience I've learned that there are very few free lunches in a VNA block diagram.  Spectrum analyzers are downright trivial by comparison. 

As you get up into the GHz range, isolation in particular is hard.
AFAIK what makes things extra difficult is the fact that a 50 Ohm directional coupler works well for looking at a '50 Ohm system' but if you are looking at a system with an impedance of 1k Ohm or 1 milli-Ohm then the VSWR will be very far off anyway and thus measurement accuracy and resolution are going to suffer. I have a low frequency VNA (10Hz to 300MHz) and that offers various ways of doing measurements. I think this Siglent VNA will be handy for measuring antenna's and other typical circuits in the 50 Ohm or 75 Ohm realm but it may be less usefull for measuring milli-ohm impedances in circuit board power distribution.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SVA1015X 1.5GHz Spectrum & Vector Network Analyzer (Coming)
« Reply #36 on: March 14, 2018, 08:20:15 pm »
I'm not sure why you are being so dismissive. This topology definitely works.

Definitely not being dismissive, although I would've been before the PE42020 came out.  What you posted could very well be what they're doing. 

But through personal experience I've learned that there are very few free lunches in a VNA block diagram.  Spectrum analyzers are downright trivial by comparison. 

As you get up into the GHz range, isolation in particular is hard.
AFAIK what makes things extra difficult is the fact that a 50 Ohm directional coupler works well for looking at a '50 Ohm system' but if you are looking at a system with an impedance of 1k Ohm or 1 milli-Ohm then the VSWR will be very far off anyway and thus measurement accuracy and resolution are going to suffer. I have a low frequency VNA (10Hz to 300MHz) and that offers various ways of doing measurements. I think this Siglent VNA will be handy for measuring antenna's and other typical circuits in the 50 Ohm or 75 Ohm realm but it may be less usefull for measuring milli-ohm impedances in circuit board power distribution.
As we can't yet get even a Chinese datasheet for these who's to say what impedance corrections will be offered within the UI, lots more info is needed before we can say; it can't do this or it can do that.
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Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SVA1015X 1.5GHz Spectrum & Vector Network Analyzer (Coming)
« Reply #37 on: March 14, 2018, 08:43:44 pm »
Mark my words Siglent is not the only one coming with this solution. Wait end of this month and see what happen!!!! Of course I know it all already :)
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Offline orin

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Re: Siglent SVA1015X 1.5GHz Spectrum & Vector Network Analyzer (Coming)
« Reply #38 on: March 14, 2018, 09:07:29 pm »
AFAIK what makes things extra difficult is the fact that a 50 Ohm directional coupler works well for looking at a '50 Ohm system' but if you are looking at a system with an impedance of 1k Ohm or 1 milli-Ohm then the VSWR will be very far off anyway and thus measurement accuracy and resolution are going to suffer. I have a low frequency VNA (10Hz to 300MHz) and that offers various ways of doing measurements. I think this Siglent VNA will be handy for measuring antenna's and other typical circuits in the 50 Ohm or 75 Ohm realm but it may be less usefull for measuring milli-ohm impedances in circuit board power distribution.


Well, that's true of most VNAs, unless you have an RF I-V interface.  Even so, you're not going to be measuring milli-ohm impedances with a VNA.  The chart on page 58 of the following gives an overview of the frequency/impedance capabilities of various measuring methods:

https://www.keysight.com/upload/cmc_upload/All/ChallengesandsolutionsforImpedance.pdf

 

Offline G0HZU

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Re: Siglent SVA1015X 1.5GHz Spectrum & Vector Network Analyzer (Coming)
« Reply #39 on: March 14, 2018, 10:28:50 pm »
'combo' analysers like this (based on a spectrum analyser) date back at least 35 years. The design of my old Takeda Riken (Advantest) spectrum analyser dates back to about 1981 and it has an internal tracking generator and came with the factory 'impedance' option fitted. This required an external Anritsu RLB as part of the option but it was capable of reasonable performance when measuring impedance. So it could mimic a basic VNA and it was also a very good spectrum analyser. In all the time we had it at work I don't think anybody used it as a VNA to measure impedance (because we had better alternatives) but it was used a lot as a spectrum analyser for critical testing up to 1800MHz.
 

Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SVA1015X 1.5GHz Spectrum & Vector Network Analyzer (Coming)
« Reply #40 on: March 26, 2018, 03:48:00 pm »
Of course I am also interested in this instrument, so I’ve investigated a bit. Looks like this is a whole new design, but it will certainly take advantage of the experience gained with the SSA series. The base version is most likely to come as a spectrum analyzer with tracking generator as standard, hence can be used as a SNA (Scalar Network Analyzer) for gain measurements right out of the box.

More advanced measurements like VNA (Vector Network Analysis), DTF (Distance To Fault) and DMA (Digital Modulation Analysis) will be just software licenses, no additional hardware required.
There will also be the Advanced Measurements and EMI Pre-Compliance Test options just like with the SSA3kX.

 
1.5Ghz seems rather low for a VNA these days.
Is there a 3.2 and or 6Ghz version as well?

Not for now.


I guess market for lower end VNAs is not very big? If something like this would be priced so that its attractive to "average" Amateur Radio hobbyist, Siglent probably would sell orders of magnitude more....

We don’t know the price yet, so why starting to complain already?

There are still lots of folks buying the Rigol DSA815-TG, aren’t there? The new Siglent SVA1015X will cover the same frequency range, but with supposedly better specs, e.g. lower resolution bandwidth and lower phase noise. I don’t think the fact that this machine can be easily upgraded to a VNA, Fault locator and Digital Modulation Analyzer makes it less attractive for potential users.


Looking at the port labels I am guessing that it will need an external coupler for S11 measurements...?

So the explicit answer is no – and maybe that’s also one reason why the frequency range is limited to 1.5GHz. It’s pure speculation on my side, but I recon it would be difficult to cover an even wider frequency range with just one coupler or even bridge and for now Siglent sure didn’t want to have to switch between several of them – not to mention the increase in cost.
 

Online hendorog

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Re: Siglent SVA1015X 1.5GHz Spectrum & Vector Network Analyzer (Coming)
« Reply #41 on: March 26, 2018, 05:15:35 pm »

Looking at the port labels I am guessing that it will need an external coupler for S11 measurements...?

So the explicit answer is no – and maybe that’s also one reason why the frequency range is limited to 1.5GHz. It’s pure speculation on my side, but I recon it would be difficult to cover an even wider frequency range with just one coupler or even bridge and for now Siglent sure didn’t want to have to switch between several of them – not to mention the increase in cost.

Yes it looks like it is built in. However building wideband bridge/couplers isn't the issue - if it was then having external couplers would be a logical solution :D
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SVA1015X 1.5GHz Spectrum & Vector Network Analyzer (Coming)
« Reply #42 on: March 27, 2018, 05:05:21 am »


I guess market for lower end VNAs is not very big? If something like this would be priced so that its attractive to "average" Amateur Radio hobbyist, Siglent probably would sell orders of magnitude more....

We don’t know the price yet, so why starting to complain already?

There are still lots of folks buying the Rigol DSA815-TG, aren’t there? The new Siglent SVA1015X will cover the same frequency range, but with supposedly better specs, e.g. lower resolution bandwidth and lower phase noise. I don’t think the fact that this machine can be easily upgraded to a VNA, Fault locator and Digital Modulation Analyzer makes it less attractive for potential users.


Price will be around 1.5k$  what makes it quite interesting (of course including TG).

Spectrum 9kHz-1.5GHz, DANL -160dBm/Hz.

Vector Network Analyzer, Cable and Antenna Test. Overall functionally very similar with R&S new SA+VNA.
Display 10.1" 1024x600 with capacitive touch.  Keyboard and mouse supported.
Estimated release: May
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 
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Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SVA1015X 1.5GHz Spectrum & Vector Network Analyzer (Coming)
« Reply #43 on: March 27, 2018, 10:45:52 am »
Price will be around 1.5k$  what makes it quite interesting (of course including TG).

...and including preamplifier. Thank you for the information – I have not been able to confirm the envisaged price yet.


Those interested in some more preliminary technical details might want to have a look at the screenshots below (many thanks to Siglent for providing them and answering my questions)

SVA1015X Displayed Average Noise Level almost -158dBm/Hz @ 99MHz


SVA1015X DANL -150dBm RBW10Hz


SVA1015X Minimum Resolution Bandwidth 1Hz


SVA1015X Minimum 1Hz RBW


SVA1015X SSB Phase Noise -100dBm/Hz @ 10kHz distance from carrier @ 1GHz


SVA1015X Phase Noise -100dBc@10kHz


SVA1015X Digital Modulation Analysis Eye Diagram


SVA1015X DMA Eye Diagram


SVA1015X Distance To Fault


SVA1015X DTF Fault Locator


SVA1015X Vector Network Analyzer Smith Chart


SVA1015X VNA Smith Chart

« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 01:36:18 pm by Performa01 »
 
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Offline simone.pignatti

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Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SVA1015X 1.5GHz Spectrum & Vector Network Analyzer (Coming)
« Reply #45 on: March 29, 2018, 08:06:20 am »
So from the info I see on the Chinese website it appears it will be priced the same as SSA3021X.
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Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SVA1015X 1.5GHz Spectrum & Vector Network Analyzer (Coming)
« Reply #46 on: March 29, 2018, 09:31:47 am »
I'm pretty sure the price will be a key point! here is the Siglent first video (by Siglent)

https://youtu.be/YCxJEBT08tw
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Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SVA1015X 1.5GHz Spectrum & Vector Network Analyzer (Coming)
« Reply #47 on: March 29, 2018, 09:50:12 am »
1.5Ghz seems rather low for a VNA these days.
Is there a 3.2 and or 6Ghz version as well?
Not apparently only the 1.5GHz version for western markets and a 1GHz version for Asian markets.
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SVA1015X 1.5GHz Spectrum & Vector Network Analyzer (Coming)
« Reply #48 on: March 30, 2018, 11:03:56 am »
1.5Ghz seems rather low for a VNA these days.
Is there a 3.2 and or 6Ghz version as well?

Rohde&Schwarz do not think so.
Just ago launched new FPC1500  Spectrum  & VNA base model is 1GHz.
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SVA1015X 1.5GHz Spectrum & Vector Network Analyzer (Coming)
« Reply #49 on: March 30, 2018, 11:07:02 am »
1.5Ghz seems rather low for a VNA these days.
Is there a 3.2 and or 6Ghz version as well?

Rohde&Schwarz do not think so.
Just ago launched new FPC1500  Spectrum  & VNA base model is 1GHz.
The FPC1500 can be upgraded up to 3GHz VNA included
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