Author Topic: Siglent SVA1015X and SVA1032X 1.5, 3.2GHz Spectrum & Vector Network Analyzers  (Read 195122 times)

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Offline eloso

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I dont want to spend another minute thinking about it or try to argue about it.

Just a note of encouragement. Like you, I have a few Siglent bits of kit - A scope, the SVA3021X (started life as the SSA model), a SDM3055M and a power supply.  All from Telonic.

In all cases, happy as larry  :) apart from the Bench DMM.   That was a bit of a saga - I bought the 3045X then sent it back because of the relay design fault in order to exchange for a 3055  (all mentioned elsewhere) which when it arrived had a marginal kind of fault - one of the 4mm sockets was a bit rough and the probes didn't feel quite right when pushing into that one.  All of this kit cost much hard earned cash of course and although I  got a gentle comment back saying that the probes went in ok and there wasn't much wrong, as far as I was concerned it wasn't a £10 meter from Aliexpress, and I expected better. These instruments will last me a long time (and I will be buying more stuff from that supplier) and I like to feel good about this kind of purchase, not feel a pang of regret every time I switch it on.   So to their credit, the supplier sent me a new 3055 and now all is well.

If your VNA isn't right I am sure you are doing the right thing in rejecting it whether you decide to get another one or not.  I am sure Telonic will do the right thing (do let us know either way - its good to reward good businesses and personal recommendations on these forums do help them I am sure).  Eventually you will have the kit that you want and all the hassles of backwards and forwards / phone calls, emails and videos will be just a memory !).

Regards


Eloso

p.s. if you didn't buy it as a commercial customer, then don't forget there are distance selling regulations in the UK  that allow you to return goods within a certain time period without actually needing to prove them faulty.  I can't remember the exact laws now - they changed a little while back but a quick google will come up with it.  I am sure Telonic will be helpful though in any case.


 

Offline regenfreak

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ust a note of encouragement. Like you, I have a few Siglent bits of kit - A scope, the SVA3021X (started life as the SSA model), a SDM3055M and a power supply.  All from Telonic.

In all cases, happy as larry  :) apart from the Bench DMM.   That was a bit of a saga - I bought the 3045X then sent it back because of the relay design fault in order to exchange for a 3055  (all mentioned elsewhere) which when it arrived had a marginal kind of fault - one of the 4mm sockets was a bit rough and the probes didn't feel quite right when pushing into that one.  All of this kit cost much hard earned cash of course and although I  got a gentle comment back saying that the probes went in ok and there wasn't much wrong, as far as I was concerned it wasn't a £10 meter from Aliexpress, and I expected better. These instruments will last me a long time (and I will be buying more stuff from that supplier) and I like to feel good about this kind of purchase, not feel a pang of regret every time I switch it on.   So to their credit, the supplier sent me a new 3055 and now all is well.

If your VNA isn't right I am sure you are doing the right thing in rejecting it whether you decide to get another one or not.  I am sure Telonic will do the right thing (do let us know either way - its good to reward good businesses and personal recommendations on these forums do help them I am sure).  Eventually you will have the kit that you want and all the hassles of backwards and forwards / phone calls, emails and videos will be just a memory !).

Regards


Eloso

p.s. if you didn't buy it as a commercial customer, then don't forget there are distance selling regulations in the UK  that allow you to return goods within a certain time period without actually needing to prove them faulty.  I can't remember the exact laws now - they changed a little while back but a quick google will come up with it.  I am sure Telonic will be helpful though in any case.

This is from a web site:

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 provides that goods must be of satisfactory quality.

This means goods must be suitably durable – meaning they should last for a reasonable period of time and should be free from fault.

Where goods fail to meet this standard, the consumer will always have a remedy. This remedy will be an entitlement to a full refund if the fault is discovered within the first 30 days after purchase or ­delivery or a free repair, replacement or refund – the trader gets to chose which one – if the fault is discovered after 30 days.


In my case, I have not misused, modified or hacked the product. I have provided video evidence to show the faults. On the morning I received the unit, I tested it and sent their engineer the video of the black screen fault right out of the box in the afternoon. I should be able to get a refund. I take no pleasure in finding faults in product. It is not a good feeling when you are on the receiving end of it.  If i spent my hard-earned money on a £1500 product, I expect it working right out of the box. I should not be blamed or expected to do factory reset, messing around it if it does not work. I dont have time for those kind of nonsense.

Telonic sells on ebay UK and it gives extra layers of protection by both ebay and paypal. This time I ordered directly from their web site because I wanted £20 before midday delivery option which is not available on ebay. I must say my local APC driver is awful. Both SVA1015X units'  boxes were damaged during shipments. Are they tossing them like footballs?
« Last Edit: April 24, 2022, 09:54:13 pm by regenfreak »
 

Offline fugazi

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I have the same issues with the SVA1032.
The smith chart is very noisy and short/load/open are not described as points in the log smith chart view.
I use a professional calibration kit.

Another thing, when i want to specify my cal-kit under user cal. I cannot enter the specific details of the load ( it is grayed out as being exactly 50 ohm, which is not ). All other can be specified.

Does anyone has a clue?

Evert
 

Online antenna

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I think your N-type to SMA adapter that you are using on the SVA is worn out.  Also, you cannot change frequency/span after a 1-port cal Notice the little "C?" in the corner of all your screenshots? That means it is not calibrated.  You cannot change any of the settings after calibration, not the frequency, not the number of points, not the TG level, none of it.  That is why it gives you the ability to save calibrations, so you can go back and load a previous calibration for a previous frequency range etc. 

After seeing you fiddle with that short and watching it jump around, I would suggest going on RFParts.com or another reputable site and getting quality N to SMA adapters (and port savers).  If you have an intermittent contact during calibration, which I can almost guarantee you did regardless of how tight it was, it will have that very effect.  I can see they are clean connectors, but if you have to play with it to get a stable reading, its shot. 

Also, in this video at the 2 minute mark, you see how the load temporarily made contact then dropped out again when you were attaching it? There you go right there, shot.  You essentially did the load calibration with an open :) GET NEW ADAPTERS!!!!!

 
« Last Edit: April 29, 2022, 02:51:51 pm by antenna »
 

Offline regenfreak

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I think your N-type to SMA adapter that you are using on the SVA is worn out. 

The SMA adaptors are completely new. One of them come with the SVA1015X free RF connector  kit from Telonic. The other one is newly purchased. I checked them under microscope, nothing wrong with them. The contact pins are as straight as Nelson's Column in Trafagar Square.  No one here in the forum can come up with a rational explanation why the noise goes away if i switch the unit power off and on. It is all intermittent and random.

Quote
I have the same issues with the SVA1032.
The smith chart is very noisy and short/load/open are not described as points in the log smith chart view.
I use a professional calibration kit.

Another thing, when i want to specify my cal-kit under user cal. I cannot enter the specific details of the load ( it is grayed out as being exactly 50 ohm, which is not ). All other can be specified.

Does anyone has a clue?

Evert

The chief engineer from Telonic saw my videos and he thinks my unit is faulty too. I  returned it yesterday getting a full refund. He will report the issues to Siglent. I feel vindicated and happy as I am suddenly £1500 richer.

I am more than happy sticking with my Nanovna V2 plus 4, NanoVNA V2 F and SAA2 v2. The Nanovna V2 plus 4 has the dynamic range of 90db vs 75db with the SVA1015X. I have to reiterate that the SVA1015X is a great machine but it is 10x times the price of the NanoVNA V2 plus 4; 3 x times the price of the LibreVNA (which has the dynamic range of 95db, 6GMhz, plus S22, S12 measurements!).


Quote
Also, in this video at the 2 minute mark, you see how the load temporarily made contact then dropped out again when you were attaching it? There you go right there, shot.  You essentially did the load calibration with an open :) GET NEW ADAPTERS!!!!!

Actually I repeated many times afterwards (not in this video). The noisy Smith chart is random and intermittent. You cannot simply tell  based on this particular video.  Anyway Telonic engineer has said it is faulty, then it is faulty, end of the discussion. :horse:
« Last Edit: April 29, 2022, 03:36:24 pm by regenfreak »
 
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Online antenna

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I have the SVA1032x (not hacked, not molested in any way) and I can tell you that what I saw during your calibration was an internittent contact.  During the calibration, attaching the short and load will change the trace (even though it down not necessarily stay on the chart until cal is finished). You saw it yourself, an unstable reading while attaching the short (which became stable when you played with it), and an unstable reading while attaching the load (which you totally missed). 

Furthermore, Telonic is not the originating company, they are just a certified dealer. There is no way to know if your "free" adapters were decent or if they are cheapest ones China can offer (leaning towards the latter). 

The male's pin can be straight as a laser beam, in fact, that makes it worse, because when the female's hole stretches open, the male's pin barely touches. When you hit enter with that load attached, it wasn't touching, and that was clearly evident in the video. So, why does it jump around so much, easy....  You told it that an open circuit was 50Ω, and therefore, it put that open at the center.  Now, as any VNA user can attest, these things rapidly lose accuracy as the impedance gets higher than about 1kΩ, so as it tries to extrapolate the impedances between the open in the middle and the open on the chart, that entire range is in the VNA's unstable territory.  Just entertain me and try a different adapter, what do you have to lose?  You can drop $3400 on a piece of test gear but want to avoid spending $20 on a decent adapter???? Good luck with that!
 

Offline regenfreak

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Just entertain me and try a different adapter, what do you have to lose?

As I wrote before, it was sent back yesterday. I dont want to spend another second arguing or thinking about it.  All I feel is this warmth of £1500 going back to my pocket.

PS. What is wrong with the RF test connectors from Telonic and ebay? They are made in China but the SVA1015X is also made in China.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2022, 04:11:03 pm by regenfreak »
 

Online antenna

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Case in point, I did a calibration on my perfectly working VNA. I used nothing as the open, jiggled the short during the short sweep, and used again nothing as the load. This is what i get after calibration (except I used 3000 points, not a couple hundred).  Same result you get!
« Last Edit: April 29, 2022, 04:15:50 pm by antenna »
 

Offline regenfreak

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If you think  this is normal, I have no further comment. :P
 

Online antenna

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For a bad connection, yes, that is normal. With the tech returning it to you stating that it was fine, with the obvious bad connection in your video, and with me showing how to replicate your results by simulating a bad connection, and you still think that $1 connector is good...  I have no further comment either ~ except one.  I'm sorry to hear you had such trouble and I hope that you eventually find a good VNA that works for you.
 

Offline regenfreak

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or a bad connection, yes, that is normal. With the tech returning it to you stating that it was fine, with the obvious bad connection in your video, and with me showing how to replicate your results by simulating a bad connection, and you still think that $1 connector is good...  I have no further comment either ~ except one.  I'm sorry to hear you had such trouble and I hope that you eventually find a good VNA that works for you.

I can simulate a bad connection by loosing the connectors or turning the connectors with any VNA.  When a symptom is  the same as a bad connector, it  does not automatically  imply it is 100% a bad connection.  The cause and effect are not 100%  correlated. If it like a patient told his doctor he has persistent headache on and off randomly, it could be a migraine, tension headache, gluacoma, sinusitis, Covid, brain tumour....
« Last Edit: April 29, 2022, 05:05:07 pm by regenfreak »
 

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If it like a patient told his doctor he has persistent headache on and off randomly, it could be a migraine, tension headache, gluacoma, sinusitis, Covid, brain tumour....
Right, but before going in for a chemotherapy or a brain transplant, you first look at your caffeine intake, pop an aspirin, check for TMJ or ear infections and see if the thyroid glands are swollen.  I was suggesting trying a different adapter, you opted for the transplant...
 
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Offline regenfreak

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I was suggesting trying a different adapter, you opted for the transplant...

 I opted for saving myself £1500. Thats how i see it. :-DMM Why should I not bothered by the random black screen problem?  You can blame my power socket connection or i have  a loose female plug connector?

If i spend £1500 on a new television, I took it out of the box and powered it up and greeted with a black screen, and then it happened over again and again, do you want to keep it?
« Last Edit: April 29, 2022, 05:29:54 pm by regenfreak »
 

Offline Johnny B Good

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@regenfreak,

 You did the only sensible thing you could have done in this circumstance. @antenna is right in a way but he's forgetting the other ten SMA connections and their five patch cables inside the SVA as pictured here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssa3000x-spectrum-analyzers/msg3088340/#msg3088340

 When I saw your plots, it put me in mind of techneut's experience after cross-flashing his SSA to an SVA, hence my guessing from the symptoms you'd described that the fault was very likely one of these internal connections (a loose or damaged connector or faulty patch cable).

 Regardless of the actual cause, the problem was obviously a fault within the SVA itself (the black screen events were enough cause in themselves to justify a return).

 Telonic, when convinced that you have reasonable cause to reject the goods as faulty, will respond to such requests without undue delay, even when it means they have to bear the cost of collect and return. TBH, I was wondering just when you were going to request a return with full refund, hence my "vote of thanks" when you finally did so :).
John
 

Offline regenfreak

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@regenfreak,

 You did the only sensible thing you could have done in this circumstance. @antenna is right in a way but he's forgetting the other ten SMA connections and their five patch cables inside the SVA as pictured here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssa3000x-spectrum-analyzers/msg3088340/#msg3088340

 When I saw your plots, it put me in mind of techneut's experience after cross-flashing his SSA to an SVA, hence my guessing from the symptoms you'd described that the fault was very likely one of these internal connections (a loose or damaged connector or faulty patch cable).

 Regardless of the actual cause, the problem was obviously a fault within the SVA itself (the black screen events were enough cause in themselves to justify a return).

 Telonic, when convinced that you have reasonable cause to reject the goods as faulty, will respond to such requests without undue delay, even when it means they have to bear the cost of collect and return. TBH, I was wondering just when you were going to request a return with full refund, hence my "vote of thanks" when you finally did so :).

Thank you! Exactly!  Lots of hardware components can go wrong and not just the loose cable connections. It could be the digital switch, voltage regulator ..etc It could be just one capacitor shorted, a cold solder joint..A spectrum analyzer is an extremely complex equipment. I subscribed to this guy's channel with the link below, you will see countless examples of failure due to one single shorted capacitor or mosfet:

https://www.youtube.com/c/NorthridgeFix/videos

Only the Siglent factory technician can have the right  diagnostic tools and expertise to find the issue. An Average Joe like myself can only make unsubstantiated speculations. It is not smart to do a hard factory reset as it would simply wipe off all the existing messages in the system info log. I could see what date the quality control technician connected the unit for checks in the log. In the log, there is a  system message appeared at very moment I powered it up the first time with the black screen problem. It is not my job to decipher what it means.

If you watch Mark Jones' teardown video, you can see the directional coupler is integrated within the tracking generator.  The simple,  low-cost design probably explain its rather lacklustre frequency performance of 5MHz to 1.5GHz. The big touchscreen and user interface are great. I am not bashing the SVA1015X.  I would definitely keep it if I had not encountered those frustrating black screen and noisy Smith chart issues. Murphy's Law hit me with two strikes!
« Last Edit: April 29, 2022, 10:43:02 pm by regenfreak »
 
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I don't disagree with the last few posts, and in my defense, seeing the screenshots of it working (and uncalibrated), I figured the black screen thing was resolved (and that rudimentary mistakes were being made).  But one thing is for sure, that short stabilized when fiddled with and nobody can deny that when the load was screwed on, it started to respond then it went away once the SMA load was tightened (and straightened). To me, those occurrences say the female end of that adapter was in the same condition as my last girlfriend.  But what do I know, it's not like I ever had a cheap non-teflon connector spread its cheap plastic insulation allowing the female center to widen... Nope. Not once.  All I did was make an observation and suggested trying a better adapter.  Apologies for that and not realizing the black screen was still an issue.  Next time, I'll read more carefully.
 
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Offline tautech

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Confirmed the SVA1000X series contains eggs  :o ......arising from this post:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssa3000x-spectrum-analyzers/msg4229788/#msg4229788

Eggs from my SVA1032X attached.
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Offline catnip

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The most recent Data Sheet (DS0701X_E05B) for the SVA1000 series specifies that the SVA1015X now has the same VNA and Tracking Generator specifications as the SVA1032X and the SVA1075X, i.e. 100KHz low frequency limit.  A query to Siglent engineering responded that the DS0701X_E05B data sheet is correct.
Can anyone confirm from your SVA1015X that these new limits are actually correct?  These are key parameters for a buying decision.
Thanks!
 

Offline tv84

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That could mean we could upgrade the new SVA1015 to higher BW...   ::)
 

Offline tautech

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That could mean we could upgrade the new SVA1015 to higher BW...   ::)
Don't be so hasty as we need check this out first.
Yes datasheet says VNA stimulus now = higher BW models but there are also other error in the datasheet in spec for all models.
The most recent Data Sheet (DS0701X_E05B) for the SVA1000 series specifies that the SVA1015X now has the same VNA and Tracking Generator specifications as the SVA1032X and the SVA1075X, i.e. 100KHz low frequency limit.  A query to Siglent engineering responded that the DS0701X_E05B data sheet is correct.
Can anyone confirm from your SVA1015X that these new limits are actually correct?  These are key parameters for a buying decision.
Thanks!
We should have a 1.5 GHz model next week and in our PD checks will have a quick look at VNA stimulus frequency limits....
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Offline tv84

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Don't be so hasty as we need check this out first.
Yes datasheet says VNA stimulus now = higher BW models but there are also other error in the datasheet in spec for all models.

No hastiness here, just thinking out loud.

Nonetheless, I remember who has indicated in the past the low freq. distinction as a sign that the HW should be different. ;)
 

Offline tautech

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Don't be so hasty as we need check this out first.
Yes datasheet says VNA stimulus now = higher BW models but there are also other error in the datasheet in spec for all models.

No hastiness here, just thinking out loud.

Nonetheless, I remember who has indicated in the past the low freq. distinction as a sign that the HW should be different. ;)
Yep, of course and it's very likely the inbuilt bridge was swapped out however if you hunt through the datasheet there are still a # of differences to the 3.2 GHz model including weight = lesser HW.  ;)

But when the # of VNA data points are wrong by an order of magnitude it screams someone is not doing their job !  :horse:
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Offline tautech

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Don't be so hasty as we need check this out first.
Yes datasheet says VNA stimulus now = higher BW models but there are also other error in the datasheet in spec for all models.

No hastiness here, just thinking out loud.

Nonetheless, I remember who has indicated in the past the low freq. distinction as a sign that the HW should be different. ;)
Yep, of course and it's very likely the inbuilt bridge was swapped out however if you hunt through the datasheet there are still a # of differences to the 3.2 GHz model including weight = lesser HW.  ;)

But when the # of VNA data points are wrong by an order of magnitude it screams someone is not doing their job !  :horse:
Fresh arrival.
100 KHz is certainly the minimum stimulus frequency that can be set.

Still waiting for official confirmation......
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Offline oewean

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New firmware for SVA1000X
V3.2.2.5.1R1 (Release Date 06.28.22 )
https://www.siglenteu.com/download/13108/

Improvements:
• Optimize the Ref level and Att couple
• Add SCPI commands in MA Mode
•READ:ADEMod:AVG?
•[:SENSe]:ADEMod:FM:DEVI?
•[:SENSe]:ADEMod:FM:DRIFt?
•[:SENSe]:BWIDth[:RESolution]
•[:SENSe]:BWIDth[:RESolution]?
•[:SENSe]:BWIDth:EQLPf
•[:SENSe]:BWIDth:EQLPf?
•CALCulate:MARKer#:PTPeak
• Add Cable Atten to correct cable loss in DTF Mode
• Add .trc file in EMI Mode
• Add .lic file auto scan

Solved Issues:
• Fix pi/4 DPSK 和 pi/8 DPSK decode errors in MA mode
• Fix calibration error when port extension on in VNA mode
• Fix fft frequency error in narrow span in SA mode
• Fix trace avg calculation error in SA mode
• Fix the zero sweep type when fft in SA mode
Norwegian distributor of test and measurement equipment....
Adroit.no
 
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Offline tv84

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SVA10xxX Service Manuals
 
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