Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog

[KungFuJosh]

you could have done it even better
see here..

Well, it's certainly bigger.

I wasn't giving them a design replacement; only making the point that there's a lot of room for improvement.

[oz2cpu]

>only making the point that there's a lot of room for improvement.

YES, if readability is a design parameter ?
they should "steal" our free sugestions,
like a hungry dog would eat a sussage

[tautech]

If there is some optimization possible they will see what can be done.
If not, they won't. They are engineers, not magicians.
There is only so much stuff you can fit on 95mmx55mm screen.

No magic needed if they make better use of space.

Modified:



Original:



Thanks,
Josh

A couple of days ahead of you....made the same suggestion to HQ. 

[Martin72]

Do we want to surf on two threads all the time now?

[KungFuJosh]

A couple of days ahead of you....made the same suggestion to HQ. 

I made the suggestion to you then too, this time I illustrated it.

[shabaz]

I have bad eyesight and would prefer to use an AWG with 10" screen personally... Except no such thing....

I was stunned at how readable the information was on the Tek AFG31000 AWG. It has a huge 9" screen and very well spaced out button panel, plus the GUI is designed for touch at arms distance. In it's normally used mode, everything fits on one screen so that there's no nested menus to navigate either. They interestingly and thoughtfully split operation into two main modes. Ease of use seems to have been given a very high priority.

The downside of the massive screen is that the instrument is large.. but fortunately not too deep, plus it has a flat top surface so you could stack gear on top.. as demonstrated in the video with both a Tek scope, and R&S SA.

[2N3055]

I have bad eyesight and would prefer to use an AWG with 10" screen personally... Except no such thing....

I was stunned at how readable the information was on the Tek AFG31000 AWG. It has a huge 9" screen and very well spaced out button panel, plus the GUI is designed for touch at arms distance. In it's normally used mode, everything fits on one screen so that there's no nested menus to navigate either. They interestingly and thoughtfully split operation into two main modes. Ease of use seems to have been given a very high priority.

The downside of the massive screen is that the instrument is large.. but fortunately not too deep, plus it has a flat top surface so you could stack gear on top.. as demonstrated in the video with both a Tek scope, and R&S SA.

That is 20000 USD instrument, that has half the max frequency, (250 vs 500 MHz), 14 bit vs 16 bit on Siglent.
But yes screen is nice, it is a good device.

[KungFuJosh]

That is 20000 USD instrument, that has half the max frequency, (250 vs 500 MHz), 14 bit vs 16 bit on Siglent.
But yes screen is nice, it is a good device.

The screen is nice. But like the rest of Tek's current lineup, the general design seems...like an outdated toy. I like Tek/Keithley a lot, but for what they charge, they need to pay their designers more.

[shabaz]

Hi, it's actually a pretty advanced instrument with very high quality output, with ultra-low jitter, and isolated from ground (sure, one could use a transformer, but that has it's own limitations). These things are rare to see in a lot of AWGs. It's hard to get much better at that price perhaps. I think it's still Tek's top-end model for that reason.

I appreciate the top-bandwidth model may be listed very high which might not make it competitive, but if a user doesn't need that bandwidth, then it can be far lower cost, just several $k, squarely in typical brand instrument ballpark.

At that lower price, I think it's pretty compelling, especially since it's always upgradeable when the business needs grow.

I think my instrument is only licensed for 40 or 80 MHz (I cannot recall), and I've no desire to increase that in years. I have several other very good ways to generate signals at higher frequencies, it's not always necessary to use an AWG for that. One nice example is to use an SDR.

I personally cannot quantify what end application I cannot develop with this 14-bit AWG rather than if that same Tek instrument happened to be 16-bit, which is why I subjected it to a variety of (hopefully) real-world needs/applications, to see what one can and cannot do with it, rather than try to test if an instrument meets it's paper datasheet spec. I want to use the instrument to develop things, not to simply own the highest bandwidth, highest bit depth instrument which might be limited in other ways that I would not be able to tell unless I actually used it to develop some things.

This is why I'm surprised people go out of their way to burn money on unknown 350 MHz 'scopes that might stink for many other reasons that they discover later, versus purchasing an actually usable 70 MHz instrument, and they might have actually had zero need for that 350 MHz bandwidth in the first place.

Another example: One could end up with a 16-bit AWG but it still wouldn't necessarily be the top instrument to use for audio testing for instance. Money might have been better spent on a DSP board and DAC perhaps in that circumstance. Depends on the actual needs of the user.

I purchased a cheap AWG (sub-$100, it happens to be 16-bit) for the times I wish to not risk damaging the high-end Tek (because sometimes I will have to connect to very experimental hardware, or something that may have a fault I do not know about). But I'm under no illusions, I'm aware that the 16-bit instrument will have poorer quality output than the decent 14-bit instrument.

Modern AWGs are very good quality signal sources and versatile, I think some would be surprised how much they could do even with a low-end modern instrument. But if you need top quality output, the Tek is likely at least as good as any other choice for a variety of reasons beyond the paper 14-bit value.

I also liked that they didn't just focus on the banner specs, but considered the user, because despite it being a sophisticated instrument (advanced mode is typically something which with other instruments can be a pain when you need special software, and have to dive deep into menus), it's remarkably easy to get it to use waveforms from many sources, and modify it's parameters on-the-fly, and even direct editing within the instrument. I think you can even finger-draw a waveform, although personally I would not do that. They have some slightly experimental but clever features (like that InstaView feature demonstrated in the video) which shows they were certainly innovating, I've not seen that in any other AWG, and it does solve a problem, but I suspect it may take another instrument generation for Tek to perfect, it's not all roses for sure.

[tautech]

Hi, it's actually a pretty advanced instrument with very high quality output, with ultra-low jitter, and isolated from ground (sure, one could use a transformer, but that has it's own limitations). These things are rare to see in a lot of AWGs. It's hard to get much better at that price perhaps. I think it's still Tek's top-end model for that reason.

................

SDG7032A would give it a serious run for the $......

[shabaz]

SDG7032A would give it a serious run for the $......

Again, depends on actual use-cases. It's got fivefold higher jitter for square waves, for instance. I'd be interested to know how that would affect real-world usage (I can think of some example use-cases!).

The in-built tiny screen doesn't inspire ease-of-use, but that's speculation, since I've never used it. Maybe they have a remarkable user-interface.

[tautech]

SDG7032A would give it a serious run for the $......

Again, depends on actual use-cases. It's got fivefold higher jitter for square waves, for instance. I'd be interested to know how that would affect real-world usage (I can think of some example use-cases!).

The in-built tiny screen doesn't inspire ease-of-use, but that's speculation, since I've never used it. Maybe they have a remarkable user-interface.

5" isn't tiny, maybe you're confusing this with another model.

[shabaz]

No, that's the model I understood you to be talking about.
5" is small in comparison to the 9" AFG31000 that I was discussing. The typical mobile phone is much larger these days.
But like I said, maybe the user interface on that 5" is somehow as good as that on the 9" screen, I wouldn't know.

[2N3055]

Hi, it's actually a pretty advanced instrument with very high quality output, with ultra-low jitter, and isolated from ground (sure, one could use a transformer, but that has it's own limitations). These things are rare to see in a lot of AWGs. It's hard to get much better at that price perhaps. I think it's still Tek's top-end model for that reason.

AFG31000 is a good instrument. I will repeat this again in case you missed it first time.

But 80 Mhz AFG31000 competes with 500€ Rigols and Siglents in general capability it offers to a user..
In which case, only thing that instrument has going for it is isolated output and big screen. Everything else is just slightly better or similar.

And your repeated insinuations about quality of "non expensive" equipment is your prejudice. You are putting into same basket noname Aliexpress toys and SDG7000A or SDG6000X ?
That is both ignorant and insulting.
What "unknown 350MHz scopes.."?
I know, at least for Siglent, that their scopes are excellent, very known quantity and quality and being sold as LeCroy.

To quote you, "I personally cannot quantify what end application I cannot develop with this.. " SDG6000x that you can with 80 Mhz AFG31000, but I sure can make you a list of stuff you cannot do with 80 Mhz AFG31000 that I can with SDG6000X.

And yes, 500MHz AWG is better than 80 Mhz AWG. Few days ago a person here took this SDG6000X, created PAL test signal, and modulated it to RF TV channel. 
All in one instrument.
SDG6000X also supports I/Q modulation. Double pulse testing, sequencing.
And it has clean signal with low distortion. Specifications are very conservative and distortion is much lower that stated.

I measured jitter down to 2-3 ps RMS where my capability to measure it ran out. I have no idea why in specifications they state 100ps (worst case, not typical, by the way) because I have yet to find that spot.
All in a very compact instrument.

So yes, you get a lot for your money.

In fact, you can get good scope, good AWG, good multimeter, and good PSU for the money that they ask for AFG31000 .

And with that combination, there is a LOT of things you can do, that you cannot do with AFG31000 alone.

But if I remember correctly, you are the person that comes in Siglent SD800xHD and Rigol DHO800 topics and profess that you don't understand why people would buy "these Chinese toys" when they can buy something like R&S MXO4 "which is better scope, you know".

So I don't expect you to understand.

[shabaz]

Hi, it's actually a pretty advanced instrument with very high quality output, with ultra-low jitter, and isolated from ground (sure, one could use a transformer, but that has it's own limitations). These things are rare to see in a lot of AWGs. It's hard to get much better at that price perhaps. I think it's still Tek's top-end model for that reason.

AFG31000 is a good instrument. I will repeat this again in case you missed it first time.

No, I didn't miss your comment the first time. I was replying to @KungFuJosh who replied after you. If I was going to address you, I would have quoted you, or used your username, if you were not the commenter directly above me.

Your comment about being insulted is just nuts? I literally (check it!) have not said a _single_ negative thing about SDG7000A or SDG6000X, why would I, I've not reason to not believe they are fine instruments. I speculated the user interface might not be the same and never tried to mislead. And I was polite, unlike you.

 I was referring to a Fnirsi 350 MHz tablet scope. And contrasting it with the newer 12-bit low-cost 'scopes which are really not that much more expensive. You completely misunderstood.

You really are idiotic for thinking I was being insulting to anyone. It was a friendly conversation and you had to be an ass when you could have simply corrected any misunderstanding I had, or that you thought I had.

I'll leave it at that for now, because you need to cool down it seems, and stop jumping to misunderstandings, and reading between the lines at literally nothing.

[shabaz]

But if I remember correctly, you are the person that comes in Siglent SD800xHD and Rigol DHO800 topics and profess that you don't understand why people would buy "these Chinese toys" when they can buy something like R&S MXO4 "which is better scope, you know".

So I don't expect you to understand.

You need to correct your recollection, because you won't find me having said that. I may have commented about how some features could now be improved because I'm interested in the 12-bit capabilities, and used the tools I had to demonstrate things, but so what? You don't have to harbour a grudge about it, it certainly doesn't warrant that.

And I certainly have never used the phrase Chinese toys, or any even remotely similar phrase like Chinese junk etc either, because I know myself better than your shoddy recollection.

[shabaz]

But if I remember correctly, you are the person that comes in Siglent SD800xHD and Rigol DHO800 topics and profess that you don't understand why people would buy "these Chinese toys" when they can buy something like R&S MXO4 "which is better scope, you know".

So I don't expect you to understand.

I went back and checked my entire commenting history. I have never stated anything vaguely similar to what you suggest. Can you provide a link to back up what you say?

The only main discussion I can see with you in the past, is on this literally MXO4 related thread:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/rs-mxo4-less-costs-more-why/25/

There, our dialog about finished with a comment where you mentioned:

I enjoy that we are having a discussion, instead of the alternatives..

And I thanked your comment.

[2N3055]

I will not insist my memory is perfect.
I will accept what you are saying without reservation.
I appologize for my mistake in that regard.

[shabaz]

That's ok. I'm not from a wealthy background, so that's why I know I wouldn't suggest products out of step in a entry-level product discussion.

And there's a lot of thinly disguised sinophobia and xenophobia out there, but for the record I would never suggest any countries produce are toys or junk, because I don't think it. Apologies for my rude response too, I should have calmed things down since it was a misunderstanding.

[2N3055]

That's ok. I'm not from a wealthy background, so that's why I know I wouldn't suggest products out of step in a entry-level product discussion.

And there's a lot of thinly disguised sinophobia and xenophobia out there, but for the record I would never suggest any countries produce are toys or junk, because I don't think it. Apologies for my rude response too, I should have calmed things down since it was a misunderstanding.

No offense, both dirrection.
I also reacted hastily...

[KAKUL]

Hello everyone and greetings to the Siglent technical team
What do you think? Is the user interface good? The Siglent team can improve this design.
The color and appearance of the icons are modern
This is just a sample.
Thanks to all the Siglent members

[RoV]

I have a suggestion for the SSA3021X+ and similar, including the SVA1032X.
I have tried the "modulation analyzer" mode to test NBFM modulation of a ham rtx and found very difficult to appreciate readings on the two scope images (particularly the left), because even selecting the smallest possible IFBW (60 kHz), they are scaled to read quite large deviations.
In FM we have +/-75 kHz minimum range that makes it hard to visualize distortion in a sinusoid having +/-5 kHz or less deviation. Same problem in PM, where full scale is +/-300 deg.
I'm not asking to modify the filtering options, that I understand may be complex, but just the scale of the plots, particularly the left one, possibly allowing to zoom.
Numeric readings are not bad: they work even with an FM peak deviation of 400 Hz or a PM deviation of 20°, something I experienced by reading the NBFM modulated signal before x12 frequency multiplication in an old ham radio, but visualization is totally uneffective.

The attached images correspond to modulation analysis at 12 MHz with 1 kHz audio and 400 Hz deviation (4800 Hz deviation @ 144 MHz after x12 multiplication). From the modulation analyzer (1st pic) I get good numbers, but unuseful pictures.
In SA mode (other pic) I can expand the scale and see what I would expect from the right picture of the modulation analyzer. I can't, however, get any clue on distorsion, that is actually present.

[tautech]

From another thread where the member preferred not to respond:

........
 In Siglent I have brand wise not such a big trust yet after some issues I had with other Siglent equipment.

Please share your story and disclose your supplier.

[tautech]

SDS2000X Plus promotion 20% discount for Asia, Oceania, Africa and Latin America markets.
https://int.siglent.com/info/detail-110.html

[eTobey]

I am a technical support engineer from Siglent, and so glad to offer effective technical support, trouble-shooting and problem solving for all Siglent products.

Also, we will appreciate if you could share your experiences and some improvement suggestions with us.
 
Sincerely,
Jason, SIGLENT North America

Hi Jason,

Is there a update of the SDS800XHD coming in the next few months? The scope has quite a few bugs and issues that need to be resolved in my opinion. (See my signature)