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Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: Siglent on June 19, 2013, 05:47:31 am

Title: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on June 19, 2013, 05:47:31 am
Hello fellow EEVbloggers,

I am a technical support engineer from Siglent, and so glad to offer effective technical support, trouble-shooting and problem solving for all Siglent products.

Also, we will appreciate if you could share your experiences and some improvement suggestions with us.
 
Any comments will be highly appreciated.

SIGLENT TECHNOLOGIES CO., LTD.

**
EDIT 12/19/2019
Jason Chonko, SIGLENT North America

Hello All,

To all of those new to SIGLENT, welcome. Thank you for your interest.

The EEVBlog is a tremendous resource and idea exchange full of people that want to help. But, if you can't find what you are looking for OR have an issue with a specific product, I recommend writing INFO@SIGLENT.COM and include as much detail as you can. Other than a phone call, this is the fastest way to get a response from the factory.

In an effort to organize our info, we've updated this first post to include a summary of all of the main SIGLENT Specific threads currently running on EEVBlog:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-spd1168x-siglent-psu/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-spd1168x-siglent-psu/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sva1015x-1-5ghz-spectrum-vector-network-analyzer-(coming)/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sva1015x-1-5ghz-spectrum-vector-network-analyzer-(coming)/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssa3000x-spectrum-analyzers/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssa3000x-spectrum-analyzers/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdl1000xsdl1000x-e-electronic-load/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdl1000xsdl1000x-e-electronic-load/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/at-last-siglent_s-sds5054x-touchscreen/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/at-last-siglent_s-sds5054x-touchscreen/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg6000-series-awg_s/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg6000-series-awg_s/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssg3000x-series-rf-signal-generators/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssg3000x-series-rf-signal-generators/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-sdg1000-and-sdg800-thread/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-sdg1000-and-sdg800-thread/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-e/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-e/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-coming/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-coming/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-985-siglent-sds1202x-e-oscilloscope-teardown/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-985-siglent-sds1202x-e-oscilloscope-teardown/)




Sincerely,
Jason, SIGLENT North America (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssa3000x-r-57-5ghz-real-time-spectrum-analyzer/https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssa3000x-r-57-5ghz-real-time-spectrum-analyzer[/url)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: EEVblog on June 19, 2013, 05:51:24 am
Thanks for joining!
Great to see manufacturers getting involved directly with users at the forum level.
Do you have a name, or will more than one support staff potentially use this account?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: kerrinal on June 19, 2013, 06:26:14 am
Are you the Original Equipment Manufacturer of owon?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tinhead on June 19, 2013, 07:45:45 am
Are you the Original Equipment Manufacturer of Owon?

please stop that, you just posted so much crap and advertisement for your crap ebay shops (Trade_Spotting_Shop and profit_vanity) , really, nobody wish to buy anything from your shop. Nobody cares about the crap you selling, so please NO!

Btw, if you would know a little about business or what so ever then:
- you would know that if someone is OEM for someone else, an technical support would never ever said that in public
  (unless allowed by management and already known, but then such post is pointless anyway)

- you would know that Owon is based, since 2008, on FPGA+ARM SoC and Siglent since 2009 on FPGA +DSP.
  Nobody ever would drive two platforms. Not even for firmware development. Not even 20yrs ago, and for sure not today

- if Siglent where Owon OEM, why they would then not use the knowledge and improve (actually both need it somehow)
  their platforms?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tinhead on June 19, 2013, 08:38:48 am
I am a technical support engineer from Siglent, and so glad to offer effective technical support

I do have question for you: by comparing latest models with and without "long memory" i recognized that
these without long memory are using only 4 (dual) ADCs instead of 5 (dual) ADCs as on long-memory enabled models.

I know how both works, and know that both ways have pros and cons:

4ADC + less interleave distortion due better ratio of clock jitter on non-dedicated FPGA clockout pins
                       vs. phase shit needs for 1GSs and amount of ADCs.
                    - higher gain distortion due overclocked ADC (125MHz instead of 100MHz on each channel)
                    + costs (one less chip)


5ADC - more interleave distortion due worse ratio of clock jitter on non-dedicated FPGA clockout pins
                       vs. phase shit needs for 1GSs and amount of ADCs.
                    + lower gain distortion due overclocked ADC (125MHz instead of 100MHz on each channel)
                    - costs (extra chip needed)

My question is actually why both ways? I mean if 5ADCs solution was working for years the change to 4ADCs can be
only price driven, no problem here to understand it, but when that's the way why only (i found it on 200MHz model,
so not the cheapest one) models without long memory are using 4ADCs?

Or maybe my pictures from models with long memory (here CA_M_110300 / SAT7.820.681K) are simply outdated ?
and Siglent is using everywhere 4ADCs (like on the pictures of CA_M_111000 / SAT7.820.681O with no long memory).

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on June 20, 2013, 03:29:37 am

I do have question for you: by comparing latest models with and without "long memory" i recognized that
these without long memory are using only 4 (dual) ADCs instead of 5 (dual) ADCs as on long-memory enabled models.



First of all, thank you for your attention and ask questions.
 the following answer for your reference:

The long memory is an additional memory chip supports




Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Galaxyrise on June 20, 2013, 03:46:03 am
SDG1025 owner here, happy to see Siglent on the forums!
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: grenert on June 20, 2013, 04:46:07 am
First of all, thank you for your attention and ask questions.
 the following answer for your reference:

The long memory is an additional memory chip supports
En anglais, s'il vous plait.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Skimask on June 20, 2013, 05:35:30 am

I do have question for you: by comparing latest models with and without "long memory" i recognized that
these without long memory are using only 4 (dual) ADCs instead of 5 (dual) ADCs as on long-memory enabled models.



First of all, thank you for your attention and ask questions.
 the following answer for your reference:

The long memory is an additional memory chip supports

Well, that answer is completely useless, since anybody with half a brain can figure that out.

I'm throwing the B.S. flag on this supposed "Siglent Tech Support" guy...
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nuhamind2 on June 20, 2013, 08:13:20 am
Probably if not because language barrier, or not-so-technical customer support.
I sincerely hope it's the first one.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on June 20, 2013, 08:55:42 am
Thanks for joining!
Great to see manufacturers getting involved directly with users at the forum level.
Do you have a name, or will more than one support staff potentially use this account?

very pleased to join the forum ,we are a team.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tinhead on June 20, 2013, 09:55:03 am
a team

so maybe can the a team answer my question above?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nctnico on June 20, 2013, 10:40:45 am
Maybe Siglent's engineering team should join and then pay Dave for the useful advice they got from this forum  >:D
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: valentinc on June 20, 2013, 08:26:07 pm
Quote
Any comments will be highly appreciated.


    I want to ask you something about the Siglent windows drivers... I have a Siglent SDG1020 AWG and a Siglent SDS1072CML oscilloscope, both with the same problem... The driver on the CD has a different hardware ID than the actual hardware ID of the equipment... And of course, because of this, Windows won't install those drivers... And even if I change the hardare IDs in the .inf file, the software won't see the equipment...

    The scope and AWG works fine with the NI VISA drivers... but still the same problem... The Siglent software doesn't see anything connected on the USB...
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on June 21, 2013, 03:03:23 am
Quote
Any comments will be highly appreciated.


    I want to ask you something about the Siglent windows drivers... I have a Siglent SDG1020 AWG and a Siglent SDS1072CML oscilloscope, both with the same problem... The driver on the CD has a different hardware ID than the actual hardware ID of the equipment... And of course, because of this, Windows won't install those drivers... And even if I change the hardare IDs in the .inf file, the software won't see the equipment...

    The scope and AWG works fine with the NI VISA drivers... but still the same problem... The Siglent software doesn't see anything connected on the USB...

The operating system of your computer is win7 64bit?
You may need install the version  5.1.2 of NIVISA.
It's the link: http://joule.ni.com/nidu/cds/view/p/id/2914/lang/en (http://joule.ni.com/nidu/cds/view/p/id/2914/lang/en)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: valentinc on June 21, 2013, 09:17:17 am
Quote
The operating system of your computer is win7 64bit?

     I tried on Win7 32 bit, Win7 64 bit, Win XP, Win 8 64 bit... The result is the same, it does not matter which OS I use... The Siglent software doesn't see the instrument with the NI VISA drivers... But I'll try 5.1.2... As I don't recall what version I tried last time...
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: David Aurora on June 21, 2013, 01:37:07 pm
Ordered the SDS1102CML today, good to know there's readily available support here.

P.S. I assume the thing won't talk to my Mac?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nixxon on June 21, 2013, 08:21:13 pm
Thanks for joining!
Great to see manufacturers getting involved directly with users at the forum level.
Do you have a name, or will more than one support staff potentially use this account?

very pleased to join the forum ,we are a team.

I would appreciate if each and every Siglent team member attributing here would sign their individual post with their name or anonymous ID-number, because then it is possible to backtrack the previous posts in the thread and figure out what the particular Siglent-representative should know about the thread history. I guess each and every Siglent representative do not have the time or ability to read all the previous posts in this thread...
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Hydrawerk on June 21, 2013, 10:41:01 pm
Any info on these new Siglent scopes? https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spotted-new-birds-%28siglent%29/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spotted-new-birds-%28siglent%29/)
Release date or specifications? Thank you in advance.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: zaoka on June 22, 2013, 10:44:19 pm
Siglent SHS806,

Is TrendPlot feature available only for multimiter inputs or it does work on scope inputs as well?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on June 24, 2013, 01:22:57 am
I don't think it is a good idea to post all problem in a in-line single multi page forum, as it would so difficult to locate a specific support issue, especially when you may have 2 concurrent issues overlapping.

I would like to call upon Dave to consider opening an other forum section for manufacturer support topics and child forums for each manufacture, then each problem can be search individually, hopefully without doubling up of same or similar issues.

I would appreciate if each and every Siglent team member attributing here would sign their individual post with their name or anonymous ID-number, because then it is possible to backtrack the previous posts in the thread and figure out what the particular Siglent-representative should know about the thread history. I guess each and every Siglent representative do not have the time or ability to read all the previous posts in this thread...

Thank you for your suggestion, we are exploring the establishment of a good way to serve you, your suggestions will be considered.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on June 24, 2013, 06:22:59 am
Thanks for joining!
Great to see manufacturers getting involved directly with users at the forum level.
Do you have a name, or will more than one support staff potentially use this account?

very pleased to join the forum ,we are a team.

I would appreciate if each and every Siglent team member attributing here would sign their individual post with their name or anonymous ID-number, because then it is possible to backtrack the previous posts in the thread and figure out what the particular Siglent-representative should know about the thread history. I guess each and every Siglent representative do not have the time or ability to read all the previous posts in this thread...

Some of the problems , we'll talk about in order to give more useful answer on this forum ,now , we are Investigating a better way for improving.
If , you could  provide some useful suggestions, we will be very pleased and Proper consideration


Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on June 24, 2013, 06:56:18 am
Siglent SHS806,

Is TrendPlot feature available only for multimiter inputs or it does work on scope inputs as well?

yes,  the TrendPlot feature is also available for  32 kinds of measurement on scope inputs
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on June 26, 2013, 01:14:51 am
I am a technical support engineer from Siglent, and so glad to offer effective technical support

I do have question for you: by comparing latest models with and without "long memory" i recognized that
these without long memory are using only 4 (dual) ADCs instead of 5 (dual) ADCs as on long-memory enabled models.

I know how both works, and know that both ways have pros and cons:

4ADC + less interleave distortion due better ratio of clock jitter on non-dedicated FPGA clockout pins
                       vs. phase shit needs for 1GSs and amount of ADCs.
                    - higher gain distortion due overclocked ADC (125MHz instead of 100MHz on each channel)
                    + costs (one less chip)


5ADC - more interleave distortion due worse ratio of clock jitter on non-dedicated FPGA clockout pins
                       vs. phase shit needs for 1GSs and amount of ADCs.
                    + lower gain distortion due overclocked ADC (125MHz instead of 100MHz on each channel)
                    - costs (extra chip needed)

My question is actually why both ways? I mean if 5ADCs solution was working for years the change to 4ADCs can be
only price driven, no problem here to understand it, but when that's the way why only (i found it on 200MHz model,
so not the cheapest one) models without long memory are using 4ADCs?

Or maybe my pictures from models with long memory (here CA_M_110300 / SAT7.820.681K) are simply outdated ?
and Siglent is using everywhere 4ADCs (like on the pictures of CA_M_111000 / SAT7.820.681O with no long memory).

1.long menmory
With and without "long memory" are all used 5ADCs, difference is whether there is memory chips.
There are tow series, SDS1000CML (with long memory) and SDS1000CNL (whitout long memory)

2.ADC
All the products did not use 4ADCs

3.200MHz model
It is used in other solution, with only one chip (2Gsa/s)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tinhead on June 26, 2013, 01:20:45 am

2.ADC
All the products did not use 4ADCs


are you sure? i see here only 4 ADCs chips (two on top and two on bottom PCB side)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=52079;image)

brand seems to be Siglent, hardware rev. CA_M_111000 / SAT7.820.681O

So ?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nuhamind2 on June 26, 2013, 02:25:41 am
Um, Aren't the picture above taken from another thread which show the inner of Atten branded scope. So it's probably Atten decision to take out 1 ADC.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on June 26, 2013, 03:55:45 am

2.ADC
All the products did not use 4ADCs


are you sure? i see here only 4 ADCs chips (two on top and two on bottom PCB side)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=52079;image)

brand seems to be Siglent, hardware rev. CA_M_111000 / SAT7.820.681O

So ?

could you tell me the model of "using 4ADCs"?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Galaxyrise on June 26, 2013, 04:31:28 am
The image is from earlier in this thread.

Quote
and Siglent is using everywhere 4ADCs (like on the pictures of CA_M_111000 / SAT7.820.681O with no long memory).
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nuhamind2 on June 26, 2013, 05:12:48 am
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/atten-ads1202cl-(partial)-teardown/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/atten-ads1202cl-(partial)-teardown/)
Probably what siglent guy mean that they only use 5 ADC is for their own branded product, while product branded by another company (although still designed by siglent) may subject to that another company decision.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on June 26, 2013, 06:07:19 am
This picture is from Atten product.

I think it is better that Atten answer Atten product questions.

OEM/ODM manufacturer is responsible to original deal partner and not third parties.

If I buy my product XYZD from OEM/ODM manufacturer, say example from Siglent, The first paper to be signed is a Non-Disclosure Agreement. Only then will begin negotiations with details. If then my  ODM manufacturer of a product, for example, would give any other information about it to third parties than I do, end up with the court.

"Yes we are OEM/ODM for this Atten product. All other questions you can ask from Atten"
I will recommend this answer.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tinhead on June 26, 2013, 06:48:43 am
it does not matter what name on the product Case, the board has been developed (firmware and hardware) and produced by Siglent, so not Bongo Bongo or Atten or LeCroy have to answer "WHY they produced like that and if that was working WHY the others are not in that way" but Siglent as only Siglent need to know what's about.

EDIT: imagine someone got replacement mainboard, with hardware rev. CA_M_111000 / SAT7.820.681O and Siglent name on it. Whom have such person to ask "why here is no chip soldered" or "can i use it for X or Y model" or what so ever questions?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nuhamind2 on June 26, 2013, 09:54:56 am
It is probably like what you said in the first page. Done. Question answered.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tinhead on June 26, 2013, 10:51:33 am
It is probably like what you said in the first page. Done. Question answered.

the real reason of my technical question was to check the quality of support.

If support person don't know what to answer, which was here the case as only product manager or the affected engineer can know why 4 and not 5 ADCs, the question need to be forwarded to someone who knows what to answer. It have to be completly forwarded, in its  original wording and not translated or with changed wording (or even worse, transalted and then forwarded with own wording).

Siglent can now compare my question with all the answer i got and think a bit about improvements to their support.

I really don't mind, actually happy to see Siglent support here, but when you do this guys, do it properly.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on June 27, 2013, 01:19:31 am
It is probably like what you said in the first page. Done. Question answered.



I really don't mind, actually happy to see Siglent support here, but when you do this guys, do it properly.

Thank you for your support and advice , also welcome your further suggestions , we will try harder to do


Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: andor on July 11, 2013, 12:32:15 pm
Hello!

Today I was measuring things with my Siglent 1072CML scope (7 months old, latest firmware), and after accidentally pushing the Horizontal Timebase knob, and so entering Delayed Mode at a fairly slow timebase, the scope froze completely. Complete lockup. Even restarting didn't help, the logo shows, the buttons light up all right, and then the unused buttons' lights go off as they should, but the screen still shows the logo and nothing else. Buttons don't respond, I tried every button, including Default Setup of course.

Do you have some kind of a method for clearing the unit's memory? It seems I pushed the scope into some kind of an endless loop. It seems, the Delayed Timebase doesn't work with very slow timebases, but the scope remembers the timebase and mode I was in. How can I reset the scope without returning it to the warranty service? Thanks,

Andor
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: andor on July 11, 2013, 01:07:07 pm
PS. I managed to connect the scope via USB and EasyScopeX, and I can send the *RST command. It successfully turns off channel 2, I hear a click from the scope. But that doesn't make the scope function.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: andor on July 11, 2013, 01:35:36 pm
Another PS:
By using the LeCroy WaveAce programmer's manual, I figured a way to remote-control the scope. I reset the scope, then started an auto-calibration, then saved the status into memory slots 0 and 1, and this seemed to help. The commands:

*RST
*CAL?
*SAV 0
*SAV 1

This firmware is about half a year old. Please update it, we could use some extra functionality.

And if Siglent really reads this: an idea. A great firmware feature would be to offer intensity-graded display, as on more expensive scopes. Those scopes perform >50000 waveforms per second. This scope only <=2000 wf/s. But if I had an option to see the actually captured waveform, while the DSP/FPGA calculates a statistical intensity-graded waveform based on the last 50000 waveforms... It would be great.

You wouldn't even need much of a memory for that. You could simply add a value saying "okay, I want statistics based on X waveforms". Then, each new captured waveform would count as 1/X in the statistical memory. Would it be possible to implement such a thing? Or at least, as a function of the EasyScopeX software? Thanks,

Andor
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on July 12, 2013, 01:44:37 am
Hello!

Today I was measuring things with my Siglent 1072CML scope (7 months old, latest firmware), and after accidentally pushing the Horizontal Timebase knob, and so entering Delayed Mode at a fairly slow timebase, the scope froze completely. Complete lockup. Even restarting didn't help, the logo shows, the buttons light up all right, and then the unused buttons' lights go off as they should, but the screen still shows the logo and nothing else. Buttons don't respond, I tried every button, including Default Setup of course.

Do you have some kind of a method for clearing the unit's memory? It seems I pushed the scope into some kind of an endless loop. It seems, the Delayed Timebase doesn't work with very slow timebases, but the scope remembers the timebase and mode I was in. How can I reset the scope without returning it to the warranty service? Thanks,

Andor

1. In order to guarantee the delay mode results, the function  be closed at the slow timebase;
2. When you rotate the timebase or voltbase, the unit's memory will be cleared
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on July 12, 2013, 02:25:56 am
Another PS:
By using the LeCroy WaveAce programmer's manual, I figured a way to remote-control the scope. I reset the scope, then started an auto-calibration, then saved the status into memory slots 0 and 1, and this seemed to help. The commands:

*RST
*CAL?
*SAV 0
*SAV 1

This firmware is about half a year old. Please update it, we could use some extra functionality.

And if Siglent really reads this: an idea. A great firmware feature would be to offer intensity-graded display, as on more expensive scopes. Those scopes perform >50000 waveforms per second. This scope only <=2000 wf/s. But if I had an option to see the actually captured waveform, while the DSP/FPGA calculates a statistical intensity-graded waveform based on the last 50000 waveforms... It would be great.

You wouldn't even need much of a memory for that. You could simply add a value saying "okay, I want statistics based on X waveforms". Then, each new captured waveform would count as 1/X in the statistical memory. Would it be possible to implement such a thing? Or at least, as a function of the EasyScopeX software? Thanks,

Andor

Andor, thank you for your attention.
For your questions, make the following answers.
1.The *RSTcommand, restores the oscilloscope to its default settings:
 open the CH1, 1V/div, 500us/div, and close other functions
2.There is the *SAV command for the siglent oscilloscope , you can find the specific instructions in the SCPI manual.
3. The statistical intensity-graded waveform function will be achieved in the next generation of production
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Spunky on July 15, 2013, 12:31:29 am
Nice to see a manufacturer on any forum, it doesn't happen very often.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: echen1024 on July 19, 2013, 05:08:12 pm
I believe Extech is on here. Not sure about Fluke, Rigol, Tek, etc...
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: dr.diesel on July 19, 2013, 05:21:25 pm
I believe Extech is on here. Not sure about Fluke, Rigol, Tek, etc...

Jeol from Tek has posted a couple times, however he's not a regular.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ACvolts on July 20, 2013, 03:50:11 pm
Nice to see Siglent has the Balls to hang in this forum. 
Great Move Siglent!
  :clap:

It's a good move.  Because the more individuals you help, the more your name moves up
in quality and service.  Then your sales increase based on information you didn't have before.

EEVBlog Forum members >
WE ARE MANY!
  :box:
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Rick on July 20, 2013, 05:26:33 pm
I recently started having a problem with the auto button of my SDS1102CML. When making measurements with the x10 setting of the probe it almost always expands the signal to fit the entire screen. But with the x1 setting of the probe most of the time it compresses the view (increases the time base and reduces the amplitude) so that you do not see any detail and have to adjust both the time base and the amplitude. Is there any particular reason for that?
P.S. This occurs mainly when visualizing the reference square wave of the scope. With an external signal there is no such problem.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: echen1024 on July 22, 2013, 01:58:24 am
I think what Siglent has done very well here is to take all the complaints very well, even though there is the language barrier, and to respond to our questions, complaints, etc, instead of the PR speak of most manufacturers.  :blah:
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on July 22, 2013, 02:17:58 am
I recently started having a problem with the auto button of my SDS1102CML. When making measurements with the x10 setting of the probe it almost always expands the signal to fit the entire screen. But with the x1 setting of the probe most of the time it compresses the view (increases the time base and reduces the amplitude) so that you do not see any detail and have to adjust both the time base and the amplitude. Is there any particular reason for that?
P.S. This occurs mainly when visualizing the reference square wave of the scope. With an external signal there is no such problem.
Thank you for your attention,
this problem has been sloved, you can upgrade to the latest version from the http://www.siglent.com/cn/server/download.aspx?nodecode=105004002006 (http://www.siglent.com/cn/server/download.aspx?nodecode=105004002006)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Rick on July 22, 2013, 09:32:53 am
I recently started having a problem with the auto button of my SDS1102CML. When making measurements with the x10 setting of the probe it almost always expands the signal to fit the entire screen. But with the x1 setting of the probe most of the time it compresses the view (increases the time base and reduces the amplitude) so that you do not see any detail and have to adjust both the time base and the amplitude. Is there any particular reason for that?
P.S. This occurs mainly when visualizing the reference square wave of the scope. With an external signal there is no such problem.
Thank you for your attention,
this problem has been sloved, you can upgrade to the latest version from the http://www.siglent.com/cn/server/download.aspx?nodecode=105004002006 (http://www.siglent.com/cn/server/download.aspx?nodecode=105004002006)

It seems to me that the latest firmware version for my scope is 5.01.02.13 and this is the version I have.
But I shall check again with the English page.
Thank you.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: illyesgeza on July 22, 2013, 12:49:39 pm
Anomalies on Siglent SDS1102CNL
here are some screen shots
The first screenshot was acquired in NORMAL triggermode (trigger source C1,FALLING  EDGE)
The signals are the SDA and SCL signals on I2C bus and was generated manualy
There are 9 clocks on SCL(CH2) and the data transimted on SDA(CH1) was 00(8bit)
The second screenshot ilustrate the problem
After captureing the signals I pushed the FORCE button on the scope
Nothing has changed
Pushing again and again the buttun the result is the same, but after the fourth
push apears the second screenshot (CH2 cleared)
After the fifth push apears the third screenshot, wich is the right one  (both traces cleared)
After that I generated again the signals
Nothing happend
Generating again and again, after 27 times apears the fourth screenshot.
HORROR! I have expected to see both traces changed. But as you see only CH2 is
good and CH1 wich was the trigger did not changed.
After a new (28.) attempt both chanels are displayed correctlly (screenshot 1)
I repeated this a lots of times and there is no logic in the number of attempts
The minimum was 6 and the maximum was 70
Some times after a good aquisition You can push the FORCE button as many times you
want the traces won't disapear.
You have to change the trigger mode to AUTO and only then the scope became to work normally
My opinion is that there are two bugs.
1.)The screen refreshing procedure is wrong
Here is how can be:
If the scope is in NORMAL triggering mode after a good acquisition the software
will update the screen from the memory. That's ok. But if arrive a new trigger
than the software MUST NOT UPDATE the screen untill the memory will not be filled with the new data.
The second bug is the FORCE button.
If the user push this buttun than in that very moment the current acquisition must
be aborted and a new sequence of triggering must be initiated and the screen must
be blanked and no update generated untill a new acquisition is ready.
In this way can be eliminated the same problem wich is genereted in case of using
the C1:WF acquisition command when you want to download the data from the scope.
Now, with the current firmware, if you try to use this command in NORMAL or
SINGLESHOT triggering mode your program will freeze.
It works only in AUTO mode, wich is USELESS!!!!
I don't understand this limitation. For this limitation you can't use the LONGMEM
mode on Siglent CML series scopes in case of SINGLESHOT triggering.
Again: I don't see what kind of hardware limitation can be to don't use LONGMEM
mode in SINGLESHOT triggering mod on Siglent CML series.





Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on July 22, 2013, 01:35:51 pm
I recently started having a problem with the auto button of my SDS1102CML. When making measurements with the x10 setting of the probe it almost always expands the signal to fit the entire screen. But with the x1 setting of the probe most of the time it compresses the view (increases the time base and reduces the amplitude) so that you do not see any detail and have to adjust both the time base and the amplitude. Is there any particular reason for that?
P.S. This occurs mainly when visualizing the reference square wave of the scope. With an external signal there is no such problem.
Thank you for your attention,
this problem has been sloved, you can upgrade to the latest version from the http://www.siglent.com/cn/server/download.aspx?nodecode=105004002006 (http://www.siglent.com/cn/server/download.aspx?nodecode=105004002006)

Exept that it is not repaired in version 5.01.02.13
(yes it works as long as keep DC coupling selected.)
This happend example if there is default settings before Auto setup or least no one have changed coupling to AC. )

How it works:

A:
Input setting DC
probe and scope set for probe factor 1x
Connect probe to 1kHz probe compensation output.

Works perfect,
Base line move to vertical center(if not there before), CH1 change to 1V/div and horizontal speed 250us/div 

B:
Input setting AC
probe and scope set for probe factor 1x
Connect probe to 1kHz probe compensation output.

Autoset give poor result (fail)

Base line move to vertical center(if not there before) - this ok. Trigger level setting also ok, CH1 change to 2V/div (error) and horizontal speed 50ms/div (error), and signal is 1.5div high (-0.75 to +0.75div related to base line.)


C:
Input setting DC
probe and scope set for probe factor 10x
Connect probe to 1kHz probe compensation output.

Works perfect,
Base line move to vertical center(if not there before), CH1 change to 1V/div and horizontal speed 250us/div. Signal is 3div high, ( 0 to +3div related to base line)


D:
Input setting AC
probe and scope set for probe factor 10x
Connect probe to 1kHz probe compensation output.

Works perfect.
Base line move to vertical center(if not there before), CH1 change to 500mV/div and horizontal speed 250us/div.  Signal is 6 div high. (-3div to +3div related to baseline)

Result:
B fails, A,C and D ok.

Note. It looks like it is related to frequency. If I use external generator for 1kHz and 3V square also B ok. But only if frequency is enough different as scope own 1kHz. Scope own 1kHz is derived from scope clock.  If I use external 1kHz what is enough close scope own 1kHz result is same (fail) as with scope own 1kHz probe comp signal.  For more fun, result is same if I use external signal but adjusted enough close to what scope think is very close 10kHz and same with very close 100kHz.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Rick on July 22, 2013, 05:17:19 pm

(yes it works as long as keep DC coupling selected.)


Right, I missed that point, Auto (in 1x mode) works in DC and not in AC. I did not play enough with it.


Note. It looks like it is related to frequency. If I use external generator for 1kHz and 3V square also B ok. But only if frequency is enough different as scope own 1kHz. Scope own 1kHz is derived from scope clock.  If I use external 1kHz what is enough close scope own 1kHz result is same (fail) as with scope own 1kHz probe comp signal.  For more fun, result is same if I use external signal but adjusted enough close to what scope think is very close 10kHz and same with very close 100kHz.

I had only 2 different crystal oscillators to play with: 10 Mhz and 50 Mhz so I could only visualize their signal.

So this is a firmware issue not a hardware one, at least there is hope that they will fix it in the future versions.
Thanks rf-loop.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on July 24, 2013, 09:26:23 am
I recently started having a problem with the auto button of my SDS1102CML. When making measurements with the x10 setting of the probe it almost always expands the signal to fit the entire screen. But with the x1 setting of the probe most of the time it compresses the view (increases the time base and reduces the amplitude) so that you do not see any detail and have to adjust both the time base and the amplitude. Is there any particular reason for that?
P.S. This occurs mainly when visualizing the reference square wave of the scope. With an external signal there is no such problem.
Thank you for your attention,
this problem has been sloved, you can upgrade to the latest version from the http://www.siglent.com/cn/server/download.aspx?nodecode=105004002006 (http://www.siglent.com/cn/server/download.aspx?nodecode=105004002006)

Exept that it is not repaired in version 5.01.02.13
(yes it works as long as keep DC coupling selected.)
This happend example if there is default settings before Auto setup or least no one have changed coupling to AC. )

How it works:

A:
Input setting DC
probe and scope set for probe factor 1x
Connect probe to 1kHz probe compensation output.

Works perfect,
Base line move to vertical center(if not there before), CH1 change to 1V/div and horizontal speed 250us/div 

B:
Input setting AC
probe and scope set for probe factor 1x
Connect probe to 1kHz probe compensation output.

Autoset give poor result (fail)

Base line move to vertical center(if not there before) - this ok. Trigger level setting also ok, CH1 change to 2V/div (error) and horizontal speed 50ms/div (error), and signal is 1.5div high (-0.75 to +0.75div related to base line.)


C:
Input setting DC
probe and scope set for probe factor 10x
Connect probe to 1kHz probe compensation output.

Works perfect,
Base line move to vertical center(if not there before), CH1 change to 1V/div and horizontal speed 250us/div. Signal is 3div high, ( 0 to +3div related to base line)


D:
Input setting AC
probe and scope set for probe factor 10x
Connect probe to 1kHz probe compensation output.

Works perfect.
Base line move to vertical center(if not there before), CH1 change to 500mV/div and horizontal speed 250us/div.  Signal is 6 div high. (-3div to +3div related to baseline)

Result:
B fails, A,C and D ok.



On this issue, because Auto algorithm 's sake, in dealing with AC and DC coupling process caused
, and in the next version of the Auto algorithms are optimized , and the default is DC coupled.


Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: David Aurora on July 24, 2013, 10:22:52 am
I have the same scope, and about a day after I bought it a few weeks back I saw a post somewhere basically saying they had reached the end of their life cycle and would get no more updates. I hope that's not right, because I have to say that after using mine (with the latest firmware) for a few weeks it is dicky as hell. They definitely need to take another stab at making these things work properly. Lockups, intermittent wildly incorrect measurements (the other day I noticed that from one stable source I got 3 different readings on 3 different vertical settings. I'm not talking millivolts either, I'm talking +/-25%, an obvious bug), quite a few bizarre bits of behaviour.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on July 24, 2013, 11:17:43 am
I have the same scope, and about a day after I bought it a few weeks back I saw a post somewhere basically saying they had reached the end of their life cycle and would get no more updates. I hope that's not right, because I have to say that after using mine (with the latest firmware) for a few weeks it is dicky as hell. They definitely need to take another stab at making these things work properly. Lockups, intermittent wildly incorrect measurements (the other day I noticed that from one stable source I got 3 different readings on 3 different vertical settings. I'm not talking millivolts either, I'm talking +/-25%, an obvious bug), quite a few bizarre bits of behaviour.

Please can you show data about signal used for test and  documents about this error, including oscilloscope model, FW and HW versions. Also document about scope settings and how test signal is conneted.  This is only way to try solve possible problems. 

I have used Tektronix oscilloscope calibrator (CG5011 and CG5010) and never seen this kind of amount of error, and I have tested every single scope what I heve sold.

--------

End of life cycle?  SDS1000L serie. Not.

Even after new SDS2000 and possible SDS3000 serie SDS1000L do not go obsolete.

Just we have get  (perhaps first) series 5.xxxxxxx FW   after many 3.xxxxx FW's


Siglent have officially informed what models are end of life cycle and production stopped. (this information they give time ago and before production stopped) (support continue as example warranty services and spare parts etc)
 
Example SDS1102CM  (and other old 5.7" display old SDS1000 models.  This information is official and list and dates can read in Siglent official sides.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: echen1024 on July 24, 2013, 09:05:55 pm
The SDSxxxxxxL series is DEFINITELY not obsolete. I believe they were released in 2013, and correct me if I'm wrong, replaced the 5.7" displays, which I believe was officially EOL'd on April 22, 2013. I just bought s SDS1102CNL because I needed a digital scope and my Tektronix 2465 that I got for my 9th birthday went pop. I'll probably try and fix it sometime.  :-BROKE
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: David Aurora on July 25, 2013, 04:12:59 am
Phew, glad to hear that! I was a bit pissed off when I saw that post and thought this thing was going to be stuck with these bugs forever.

Yeah when I get time I'll try to sit down with it and document the problems I'm finding properly. So far it's just been a bunch of mid-job WTF moments that I just tried to fix and get back to work immediately rather than explore. The point of my post wasn't so much to get troubleshooting help, it was to point out that the current firmware is still far from perfect and on the (apparently wrong) information that there would be no further refinement that was worrying.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on July 25, 2013, 11:49:50 am
Perhaps soon we can see update for FW in Siglent download center.

I have seen this version in factory fresh SDS1000CML scope:
FW: 5.01.02.22
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on July 25, 2013, 01:20:15 pm

On this issue, because Auto algorithm 's sake, in dealing with AC and DC coupling process caused
, and in the next version of the Auto algorithms are optimized , and the default is DC coupled.

This "Auto" problem  is solved, as Siglent told,  in new FW 5.01.02.22
(and some other small changes...)

I hope Siglent update asap they Download center where still read 5.01.02.13

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: amyk on July 28, 2013, 11:01:03 am
Care to comment on Dave's rusty function generator? It looks like a nice instrument apart from that.
As pointed out above, YouTube is blocked in China...
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on July 28, 2013, 11:39:02 am
Care to comment on Dave's rusty function generator? It looks like a nice instrument apart from that.
As pointed out above, YouTube is blocked in China...

Yes but there is Youku.

I have inspected more than just one SDG1000 series and one SDG5000 series. No corrosion/rust at all. Also some other members have looked inside SDG5000 they have and no rust/corrosion.

But, it can develop corrosion too easy, due to material and metal work (perhaps Siglent need give more tight instructions/commands to mechanical parts supplier)

This is not true serioius problem in normal envinronment where these machines are typically used.

But this may happend example after metal case have made and then restored perhaps in very humid or better say wet place before they come inside Siglent factory.  Shenzhen area is very humid and wet many times. Sometimes some cartons may be wet and they stay somewhere outside wet, humid and warm place... I have seen this in china industrial area many many times.

So this quality control need cover also whole production chains, also these sub manufacturers who do some parts of equipment.

Perhaps it is good if Siglent more carefully design also materials what are used for these parts.  And also more tight control when they receive these parts from suppliers. If not meet quality, just return back and tell to supplier that this lot we do not accept. Money is good teacher.

Title: Re: Siglent expand soon to Europe.
Post by: rf-loop on July 29, 2013, 07:59:27 pm
Siglent is soon expanding "something" also to European Union region.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Orange on July 29, 2013, 08:35:18 pm
It looks like it's from the same guy who also does atten.eu
No official Siglent factory website !
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Short Circuit on July 29, 2013, 10:58:00 pm
It looks like it's from the same guy who also does atten.eu
No official Siglent factory website !
Indeed, both sites are operated by JR Special Electronics. KVK nr: 52793575 Rivierensingel 325 5704KN Helmond The Netherlands
They put alot of effort into pretending to be official manufacturer websites...  :--
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: israel on July 29, 2013, 11:40:55 pm
Hi. Since this waveform generator I have observed this problem.
with a 10 MHz external time base works perfect, but with its internal time base shows a difference in frequency.

that may be the problem and how to fix it?

I contacted by mail with siglent, but apparently you have to recalibrate all equipment by service software. but it seems strange since it is assumed that the instructions should be correct calibration

there is a simpler method?

not see any setting to recalibrate the internal reference oscillator.

Regards.


Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on July 30, 2013, 07:37:32 am
Hi. Since this waveform generator I have observed this problem.
with a 10 MHz external time base works perfect, but with its internal time base shows a difference in frequency.

that may be the problem and how to fix it?

I contacted by mail with siglent, but apparently you have to recalibrate all equipment by service software. but it seems strange since it is assumed that the instructions should be correct calibration

there is a simpler method?

not see any setting to recalibrate the internal reference oscillator.

Regards.

Your freq counter is not connected to accurate external standard? 

This error what it now show is far out of specs (+/- 100ppm class so error with 10MHz can be +/-1kHz but no more)
.
IF freq counter have no freq error.
What is true error?



There is no freq adjustment for internal oscillator. It is specified for its initial and long term accuracy.
If need  more accuracy, it need use external accurate reference.

If with some undefined reason internal  ref oscillator is out of specification it can of course change.


Inside SDG1000 there is also place for better reference but it need (afaik) also modified FW from Siglent.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: israel on July 30, 2013, 08:37:56 am
Quote
Your freq counter is not connected to accurate external standard? 

This error what it now show is far out of specs (+/- 100ppm class so error with 10MHz can be +/-1kHz but no more)
.
IF freq counter have no freq error.
What is true error?


The frequency counter has the correct internal oscillator. I have tried other counters and the result is the same, the smaller image corresponds to screenshot of my DSO shows the same error rate  :palm:



Quote
There is no freq adjustment for internal oscillator. It is specified for its initial and long term accuracy.
If need  more accuracy, it need use external accurate reference.

If with some undefined reason internal  ref oscillator is out of specification it can of course change.


with a 10 MHz external reference works perfect. The problem seems to be the internal reference of generator  :-+



Quote
Inside SDG1000 there is also place for better reference but it need (afaik) also modified FW from Siglent.

I have installed the latest firmware


Regards

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on July 30, 2013, 11:18:56 am

Quote
Inside SDG1000 there is also place for better reference but it need (afaik) also modified FW from Siglent.

I have installed the latest firmware


Regards

Latest firmware is nothing to do this what I told.

I told, there is place for better freq reference (OCXO). There is allready place for it on the board but it need special FW also what support it. (Time ago Siglent tell me this)
If want install this special option it need instructions from Siglent how to do.


But if just change original default oscillator (and this is now case) to new one it can of course do.

I believe it is now out of limits but your method do not proof it. You have measured it by undefined accuracy. If one DSO have around what also your counter, it do not really proof so much.

For real proof if siglent is out of specs or not and how much it is out of specs you need least +-10ppm true trusted abs accuracy or far better. (oh well it is easy get and perhaps your counter is inside this but this can not be sure with this information what is now.

If it really after trusted measurments is >400ppm off, it is absolutely too much = fail.

If there is warranty, contact first seller what to do.

If seller is just only carton shipper then contact Siglent and ask help for get this back to normal working state. 
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: israel on July 30, 2013, 01:06:43 pm
Quote
Latest firmware is nothing to do this what I told.

I told, there is place for better freq reference (OCXO). There is allready place for it on the board but it need special FW also what support it. (Time ago Siglent tell me this)
If want install this special option it need instructions from Siglent how to do.


But if just change original default oscillator (and this is now case) to new one it can of course do.

I believe it is now out of limits but your method do not proof it. You have measured it by undefined accuracy. If one DSO have around what also your counter, it do not really proof so much.

For real proof if siglent is out of specs or not and how much it is out of specs you need least +-10ppm true trusted abs accuracy or far better. (oh well it is easy get and perhaps your counter is inside this but this can not be sure with this information what is now.

If it really after trusted measurments is >400ppm off, it is absolutely too much = fail.

If there is warranty, contact first seller what to do.

If seller is just only carton shipper then contact Siglent and ask help for get this back to normal working state.


Thank you very much for your reply and clarification.

I apologize if if at some point some of my words are bad interpreted, it is because this is not my native language and I not have a good command.

Actually I know the fact of user firmware does not alter the technical parameters of the system. SIGLENT provided me a procedure and calibration software. but I see too complicated for just this problem. I also assume that the parameters listed in this procedure are those that were loaded at the factory

I have all the data and software needed for calibration, but I dare not publish it without prior approval from SIGLENT.

I tend to think it's more of a hardware problem in the internal 10 MHz reference may be interesting as you indicate replace the internal oscillator.


Best regards,
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on July 30, 2013, 02:46:58 pm
I apologize if if at some point some of my words are bad interpreted, it is because this is not my native language...

Very same about my languaguage. ;)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on July 30, 2013, 02:56:12 pm

I have all the data and software needed for calibration, but I dare not publish it without prior approval from SIGLENT.

Yes, this is good becouse if share these "service level" things to all kind of users it may lead really more problems than good things. Also most of service level calibration etc softwares need some listed or compatible equipments together with software.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Rick on August 01, 2013, 08:44:37 am
Siglent fixed that "Auto" button problem. I got the new firmware and it works. However if the scope is in AC coupling mode before pressing the "Auto" button, it switches back to DC coupling therefore shifting the signal (with a DC bias) after rescaling it on the screen. May be it's just me being picky. How do other scopes behave (if they do have "Auto" type function of course)?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: illyesgeza on August 01, 2013, 09:20:51 am
More problems with SIGLENT SDS1102CML
If you get the Sampling Rate with the command SAMPLE_RATE? you'll get the right one no matter if LONGMEM is selected or not. But if you read the Sampling Rate from address 176 in the WAVDESC than in the case of LONGMEM on you'll get the half of it.
Example:TimeBase is set to 100nS and LONGMEM is on.
If you press the ACQUIRE button you can read 500.0MSa on the scope. That mean 2ns sampling time
Now if you get the trace with the command C1:WF? and read the Sampling Time in the WAVEDESC at offset 176 acordingly to the specification of SDS1000_REMOTE_CONTROL_MANUAL_1.2 you will read 4ns
There are a lot of more bugs. I am wondering why Siglent newer answer to my remarks.
But the most annoying problem is that I can't get all the 1mega data using the Command C1:WF?
I know that with easyscope program you have an option to select LONGMEM, download the data, and save it in .DAV format. unfortunately on my scope the EASYSCOPE dosen't work. I'd like to know if somebody who have a SIGLENT SDS1102CML had ever succeeded to get all the LONGMEM data.
An other problem is the STORE command.
The syntax is: STORE [<trace>, <dest>].
The <dest> parameter can be an USB stick UDSK.
As <trace> parameter you can select a channel or ALL_DISPLAYED
BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT wich is ALL that can't be!!!!!!!!!
I mean ALL as ALL THE CHANNELS.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on August 01, 2013, 10:12:49 am
I have updated the firmware of my ATTEN ADS1102CAL with the SIGLENT SDA1102CNL firmware (SDS1000CNL_SSP_V100R005B01D02P13)
Now in the System Status menu I have:
Software version 5.01.02.13
Harware Version  10-61-3.3
Product Type     SDS1102CNL
The serial nuber is the old ADSxxxxxxxxxx

Everything works normaly BUT !!!!!!
I can't find a proper USB driver for USBMTC device
Before the upgrade the EASYSCOPE 3 program has found my scope using the UOWORD.SYS driver
Now the program can't find the scope


You have purchased Atten oscilloscope.

Then you have modified it with Siglent FW (CNL model)

Then you perhaps have added some kind of memory(?) and changed FW for Siglent SDS1102CML.
Or do you now have genuine Siglent product. 

Who knows after these all modifications how it works or not?

If want Siglent product, it is also better to buy Siglent product.

You have Atten product but where is ATTEN support now.
(btw, why you modify it using Siglent FW, why not Atten FW.)


Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: illyesgeza on August 01, 2013, 12:34:52 pm
I used the Siglent firmware because I didn't find any ATTEN firmware and inside the scope is a Siglent hardware
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: echen1024 on August 01, 2013, 08:42:16 pm
I used the Siglent firmware because I didn't find any ATTEN firmware and inside the scope is a Siglent hardware

But there are still differences. Unlike the LeCroy, which is the same thing as a Siglent, you are not sure about the exact Siglent Equiv of your Atten.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: illyesgeza on August 02, 2013, 05:55:37 am
Those bugs I earlier mentioned are there. No matter if you belive or not that Siglent and Atten 1000 series are the same
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: echen1024 on August 04, 2013, 03:07:17 am
However, I do have one question. Is it possible to install the LeCroy firmware on the Siglent SDS1102CNL?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: illyesgeza on August 04, 2013, 08:15:21 am
on a SDS1102CNL you can not!!!!
on a SDS1102CML I think it will work (99.99%)
but I did not tried. What I realy don't know if the buttons are at same ports.
If you try the Lecroy WaveStudio program, you will notice that all the buttons can be manipulated by remote commands, but their positions on the screen are not correct.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on August 05, 2013, 02:33:46 am
Siglent fixed that "Auto" button problem. I got the new firmware and it works. However if the scope is in AC coupling mode before pressing the "Auto" button, it switches back to DC coupling therefore shifting the signal (with a DC bias) after rescaling it on the screen. May be it's just me being picky. How do other scopes behave (if they do have "Auto" type function of course)?

In the new version, made the following modifications:
AUTO perfect algorithm to enhance the speed of response, and unified the DC coupling



Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on August 05, 2013, 02:38:57 am
More problems with SIGLENT SDS1102CML
If you get the Sampling Rate with the command SAMPLE_RATE? you'll get the right one no matter if LONGMEM is selected or not. But if you read the Sampling Rate from address 176 in the WAVDESC than in the case of LONGMEM on you'll get the half of it.
Example:TimeBase is set to 100nS and LONGMEM is on.
If you press the ACQUIRE button you can read 500.0MSa on the scope. That mean 2ns sampling time
Now if you get the trace with the command C1:WF? and read the Sampling Time in the WAVEDESC at offset 176 acordingly to the specification of SDS1000_REMOTE_CONTROL_MANUAL_1.2 you will read 4ns
There are a lot of more bugs. I am wondering why Siglent newer answer to my remarks.
But the most annoying problem is that I can't get all the 1mega data using the Command C1:WF?
I know that with easyscope program you have an option to select LONGMEM, download the data, and save it in .DAV format. unfortunately on my scope the EASYSCOPE dosen't work. I'd like to know if somebody who have a SIGLENT SDS1102CML had ever succeeded to get all the LONGMEM data.
An other problem is the STORE command.
The syntax is: STORE [<trace>, <dest>].
The <dest> parameter can be an USB stick UDSK.
As <trace> parameter you can select a channel or ALL_DISPLAYED
BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT wich is ALL that can't be!!!!!!!!!
I mean ALL as ALL THE CHANNELS.

Thanks to our attention, in order to better solve your questions, I hope you give edition models, and others  problems, thank you.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: illyesgeza on August 05, 2013, 04:38:17 pm
If I understood, you (SIGLENT) have asked me about my DSO
This strings are inside my scope
siglent
ca_m_111000
sat7.820.6810
rz-02a
94v-0
e322892
and this is what I got in sytem utility:
Hardware version:  10-61-3.3
Software version: 5.01.02.13
Product type: SDS1102CML
You have asked me about other problems.
Yes there are a lots of.
Example:
If you use the command GCSV? DD,MAX,SAVE,ON
than the scope freeze. It must be powered off.
In case of GCSV DD,DIS,SAVE,ON everything is ok.
This problem have nothing to do with LONGMEM ON or OFF
In both cases the scope freeze.
If I use the SAVE button I can save the data acordingly to LONGMEM and DISPLAYED
ex: LONGMEM off, DataDepth Maximum -> filesize will be aprox 600Kilobytes
    LONGMEM on,  DataDepth Maximum -> filesize will be aprox 60Megabytes
    LONGMEM off, DataDepth Displayed -> filesize will be aprox 300Kilobytes
    LONGMEM on,  DataDepth Displayed -> filesize will be aprox 6.3Megabytes
So it is obvious there is a software problem wich is not related to the hardware.
I don't want to repeat me, but it would be great to solve the problem with the WaveForm realted commands
WFSU does not work
WF?   Does not work in LONGMEM ON mode.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: grego on August 07, 2013, 12:09:05 am
Siglent support:

A question has come up about the SDG5000 series of function generators.

Is there a way to synchronize the two channels?  I can not figure out a way to have both channel 1 and 2 in phase with each other on my SDG5082.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Zbig on August 07, 2013, 09:10:52 am
Question to Siglent support:

How much longer until the 5.01.02.22 firmware for SDS1000 series shows up on the download page? Personally, I find it very frustrating knowing that the new version is out there in the wild on new units yet the download page got stuck on 5.01.02.13 for some reasons.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on August 08, 2013, 01:40:18 am
I
siglent
ca_m_111000
sat7.820.6810
rz-02a
94v-0
e322892
and this is what I got in sytem utility:
Hardware version:  10-61-3.3
Software version: 5.01.02.13
Product type: SDS1102CML
You have asked me about other problems.

Example:
If you use the command GCSV? DD,MAX,SAVE,ON
than the scope freeze. It must be powered off.
In case of GCSV DD,DIS,SAVE,ON everything is ok.

......

Thank you for your attention on these issues, we have to submit questions processes, and in the next version update
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on August 08, 2013, 01:45:46 am
I
Example:
If you use the command GCSV? DD,MAX,SAVE,ON
than the scope freeze. It must be powered off.
In case of GCSV DD,DIS,SAVE,ON everything is ok.

......

Thank illyesgeza attention on these issues, we have to submit questions processes, and in the next version update
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: David Aurora on August 08, 2013, 02:54:31 am
Question to Siglent support:

How much longer until the 5.01.02.22 firmware for SDS1000 series shows up on the download page? Personally, I find it very frustrating knowing that the new version is out there in the wild on new units yet the download page got stuck on 5.01.02.13 for some reasons.

Yeah, I'd definitely like to know what's happening with this too
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: illyesgeza on August 08, 2013, 01:00:57 pm
Anomalies on Siglent SDS1102CML.
Here are some screenshots
The ETS bugs don't bother me.
BUT !!! the realtime problems YES!!! (SDS0003.JPG, SDS00004.JPG)
When you get the trace with C1:WF? command you got the wrong sampling rate
because in that moment the acquisition is stoped. Just like in this example
As I said in an earlier post you get the half of the sampling rate
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: illyesgeza on August 09, 2013, 09:08:52 am
Can anybody help me to make a test on a SIGLENT SDS1102CML?
Select both chanels. select LONGMEM. Select Trigger EDGE,SLOPE+,NORMAL,source CH1.
When you have a stable image make a screenshot.
Then push the STOP button and make an other screenshot.
I'd like to know if both traces remain in the same position as in RUN mode.
There is not the generator's error. In LONGMEM OFF mode everything is OK.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: illyesgeza on August 09, 2013, 09:20:38 am
There is no difference between the hardware. So the problem is in the software
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: illyesgeza on August 09, 2013, 09:25:26 am
I'd like to ask SIGLENT why is possible to make an one shot acquisition on 20480 samples, and why not on 1mega samples.
If it's a realtime sampling mode, there must not be related to the number of samples. So simple.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: illyesgeza on August 09, 2013, 09:41:03 am
Question for SIGLENT.
If the hardware can not make a continuous acquisition on 1 mega samples after a SINGLE!!! stable trigger, in that case there is no need for LONGMEM.
I can not figure out what kind of REALTIME  acquisition metod is used to have such a limitation.
This limitation is also on ATTEN and LECROY.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: echen1024 on August 09, 2013, 03:25:30 pm
Please, stop spamming this thread. Honestly, that firmware is not under the Siglent name, so I think you should talk to Atten, or whoever made your scope for support.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: illyesgeza on August 09, 2013, 05:07:14 pm
Sorry sire if I bother you but that firmware is signed by SIGLENT and is used on a SIGLENT made hardware.
I don't know why you consider that I am spamming. I just pointed some problems. I am sure about that those problems are on all CML models.
Apology if I made you angry.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: echen1024 on August 09, 2013, 08:04:46 pm
Sorry sire if I bother you but that firmware is signed by SIGLENT and is used on a SIGLENT made hardware.
I don't know why you consider that I am spamming. I just pointed some problems. I am sure about that those problems are on all CML models.
Apology if I made you angry.

Really? Huh. I will try and recreate these issues on the CNL, since I can only get max 20k points mem, when I am promised 40k.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: illyesgeza on August 10, 2013, 06:53:08 am
you can get 40k only for one trace when the sample rate is 1G
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: echen1024 on August 10, 2013, 03:32:40 pm
you can get 40k only for one trace when the sample rate is 1G

I've played around with the sample rate, and only have had 1 channel turned on. The same old 20k.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on August 10, 2013, 08:01:38 pm
you can get 40k only for one trace when the sample rate is 1G

I've played around with the sample rate, and only have had 1 channel turned on. The same old 20k.

Under 1GSa/s normal memory is 20k for each channels independent if 1 or 2 channels in use.
1GSa/s normal memory is 40k. (1GSa/s available only if one channel in use and normal memory and timebase is 50ns/div or faster.

(In theory of operation, there is 2 x 500MHz ADC* and after both there is 20k sample buffer what can take full 500MSa/s.  When scope use 1GSa/s these two ADC are interleaved, and so also these two 20k sample are interleaved. In end when read this sampling buffers  alternately there is 1GSa/s data and 40k data points.

*made  using several interleaved 100MHz running ADC's)


Here CSV start with 1 channel in use and 1GSa/s (50ns/div)  and second is 1 channel in use and 500MSa/s (100ns/div)

CSV really have this amount of data points what it tell record lenght.

NOTE: In save menu there need select of course "Data Depth" = "Maximum"
(other selection is "Displayed")

And if want parameters "ParaSave" = On

Also if stop capture there is same 20k or 40k in sample buffer and visible.

Here start from both stored CSV
opened just normally with OpenOffice Calc (only mod is serial number hide)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Smoking on August 12, 2013, 10:52:11 am
It looks like it's from the same guy who also does atten.eu
No official Siglent factory website !
Indeed, both sites are operated by JR Special Electronics. KVK nr: 52793575 Rivierensingel 325 5704KN Helmond The Netherlands
They put alot of effort into pretending to be official manufacturer websites...  :--

Hi all,

Let make something clear  :)

Yes I do have multiple web-shops Like ATTEN.EU Siglent.eu and more.
These web-shops are run independently from the Chinese cooperation's BUT this doesn't mean we do not communicate.
The websites are made to have a better support and promotion in the EU with these products.
The assumption that we are non official is wrong. Siglent.eu is a official reseller like many other resellers.

I do not think it is very nice to make a assumption that we are pretending!
If you do not know how things are set up please do some research first.

Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions.

Greetings,
Jonas Rijnders
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: illyesgeza on August 12, 2013, 01:40:28 pm
As you see I have many remarks and questions.
Plese be more specific. How we can contact you. Here? Or by e-mail ?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Bored@Work on August 12, 2013, 06:41:51 pm
I do not think it is very nice to make a assumption that we are pretending!

Actually, it is not very nice that you pretend with your websites that you are Atten/Siglent. Which you aren't. You are just a reseller.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ChrisShillito on August 15, 2013, 03:25:42 pm
I have a Siglent SDS1102CM oscilloscope but it has suddenly stopped working and now only ever displays its splash screen - anyone else ever seen this?

When I turn on the scope the buttons light up as usual and the fan runs. The splash screen appears and the buttons lights go out (except measure, run/stop, CH1 and CH2 lights on) but that's as far as it gets - the splash screen just stays there and pressing the buttons doesn't do anything. The scope first entered this mode when I pressed the horizontal time scale zoom button.

Anybody (SIGLENT?) know of a back door way to force a 'restore to factory defaults'  - perhaps powering up with certain buttons pressed etc?

Chris.

[Edit] Just noted Andor's post from earlier in this thread where he reports the same thing. Andor, if you read this could you confirm that you managed to get your scope out of this lockup? And could you explain/confirm the steps I need to take. Cheers.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: jasonbrent on August 15, 2013, 07:56:29 pm
I have a Siglent SDS1102CM oscilloscope but it has suddenly stopped working and now only ever displays its splash screen - anyone else ever seen this?

When I turn on the scope the buttons light up as usual and the fan runs. The splash screen appears and the buttons lights go out (except measure, run/stop, CH1 and CH2 lights on) but that's as far as it gets - the splash screen just stays there and pressing the buttons doesn't do anything. The scope first entered this mode when I pressed the horizontal time scale zoom button.

Anybody (SIGLENT?) know of a back door way to force a 'restore to factory defaults'  - perhaps powering up with certain buttons pressed etc?

Chris.

[Edit] Just noted Andor's post from earlier in this thread where he reports the same thing. Andor, if you read this could you confirm that you managed to get your scope out of this lockup? And could you explain/confirm the steps I need to take. Cheers.

The same thing happened to mine 3 days after I purchased it. 1202CML...but mine wouldn't even bring up a splash screen. Power on would cause the fan to start spinning, but no other lights or anything on the screen. I sent it back because I could not figure out how to make it work again (and frankly, it shouldn't have broken that way)...

-jbl
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: echen1024 on August 15, 2013, 10:40:11 pm
I have a Siglent SDS1102CM oscilloscope but it has suddenly stopped working and now only ever displays its splash screen - anyone else ever seen this?

When I turn on the scope the buttons light up as usual and the fan runs. The splash screen appears and the buttons lights go out (except measure, run/stop, CH1 and CH2 lights on) but that's as far as it gets - the splash screen just stays there and pressing the buttons doesn't do anything. The scope first entered this mode when I pressed the horizontal time scale zoom button.

Anybody (SIGLENT?) know of a back door way to force a 'restore to factory defaults'  - perhaps powering up with certain buttons pressed etc?

Chris.

[Edit] Just noted Andor's post from earlier in this thread where he reports the same thing. Andor, if you read this could you confirm that you managed to get your scope out of this lockup? And could you explain/confirm the steps I need to take. Cheers.

The same thing happened to mine 3 days after I purchased it. 1202CML...but mine wouldn't even bring up a splash screen. Power on would cause the fan to start spinning, but no other lights or anything on the screen. I sent it back because I could not figure out how to make it work again (and frankly, it shouldn't have broken that way)...

-jbl

Try opening it up and testing the test points/components individually.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ChrisShillito on August 15, 2013, 10:50:37 pm
Anybody (SIGLENT?) know of a back door way to force a 'restore to factory defaults'  - perhaps powering up with certain buttons pressed etc?

Well it seems there is indeed a back door mechanism to reload defaults - repeatedly press the math button whilst the scope is initialising does the trick nicely. Many thanks to Andor for helping me out with that :-+. Perhaps Siglent will consider publishing this trick in their manual as it would appear there is a 'persistent' lock-up bug lurking in the firmware waiting to bite - no big deal if you now how to clear it but very worrying if you don't!.

Chris.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on August 16, 2013, 05:07:22 am
Anybody (SIGLENT?) know of a back door way to force a 'restore to factory defaults'  - perhaps powering up with certain buttons pressed etc?

Well it seems there is indeed a back door mechanism to reload defaults - repeatedly press the math button whilst the scope is initialising does the trick nicely. Many thanks to Andor for helping me out with that :-+. Perhaps Siglent will consider publishing this trick in their manual as it would appear there is a 'persistent' lock-up bug lurking in the firmware waiting to bite - no big deal if you now how to clear it but very worrying if you don't!.

Chris.

I will recommend that if we report some this kind of problem/bug etc things we also include model, FW and HW version information. Just becouse different versions are different.

Example earlier someone told freezing if push accidentally delayed  using very slow horizontal speeds and then scope freeze. Least in FW version 5.01.02.22 there read pop up message "Function is not useable" and nothing happends. 
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: illyesgeza on August 16, 2013, 05:37:35 am
press 'RUN/STOP' key three times
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ChrisShillito on August 16, 2013, 08:52:55 am
I will recommend that if we report some this kind of problem/bug etc things we also include model, FW and HW version information. Just becouse different versions are different.

Example earlier someone told freezing if push accidentally delayed  using very slow horizontal speeds and then scope freeze. Least in FW version 5.01.02.22 there read pop up message "Function is not useable" and nothing happends.

Fair enough, here are the details in my specific case:

Model:SDS1102CML
Hardware: 11-62-3.3
Firmware: 5.01.02.13
CH1 and CH2 enabled, 1V per division, x1 probe
Trigger: CH1 Falling Edge, Auto
USB stick present
Measure: on screen Time measurements display active.
Timebase: must have been around 10uS but I don't know the exact setting - certainly wasn't 'slow'

Pressing the timebase button caused the splash screen to appear. What ever 'setting' causes the error is remembered after power down because the scope re-enters the same state after its usual power up sequence.

Reloading factory defaults by rapidly pressing the MATH button whilst the scope is initializing fixed the problem.

The lockup is not easily repeatable - I've attempted to replicated it but have so far failed.

Chris.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: David Aurora on August 16, 2013, 08:53:22 am
Anybody (SIGLENT?) know of a back door way to force a 'restore to factory defaults'  - perhaps powering up with certain buttons pressed etc?

Well it seems there is indeed a back door mechanism to reload defaults - repeatedly press the math button whilst the scope is initialising does the trick nicely. Many thanks to Andor for helping me out with that :-+. Perhaps Siglent will consider publishing this trick in their manual as it would appear there is a 'persistent' lock-up bug lurking in the firmware waiting to bite - no big deal if you now how to clear it but very worrying if you don't!.

Chris.

I will recommend that if we report some this kind of problem/bug etc things we also include model, FW and HW version information. Just becouse different versions are different.

Example earlier someone told freezing if push accidentally delayed  using very slow horizontal speeds and then scope freeze. Least in FW version 5.01.02.22 there read pop up message "Function is not useable" and nothing happends.

Speaking of versions, I and others have asked in multiple threads now about when the new firmware will be live on the Siglent website, would love some feedback from Siglent on what's going on there.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ChrisShillito on August 16, 2013, 04:40:00 pm
Speaking of versions, I and others have asked in multiple threads now about when the new firmware will be live on the Siglent website, would love some feedback from Siglent on what's going on there.

The 5.01.02.22 firmware is available here http://siglent.freeforums.org/new-fw-for-sds1000cml-and-cnl-t77.html (http://siglent.freeforums.org/new-fw-for-sds1000cml-and-cnl-t77.html) it just hasn't made it onto their download page yet |O


Chris.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: echen1024 on August 16, 2013, 05:06:51 pm
Is it possible to change the rotary encoders on the Siglent SDS1102CNL oscilloscope? The non detented multi-function and horizontal position knob is really pissing me off. I have opened it up, and am not sure how many pulses it is, and if it is possible to replace them.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: David Aurora on August 17, 2013, 12:59:39 am
Speaking of versions, I and others have asked in multiple threads now about when the new firmware will be live on the Siglent website, would love some feedback from Siglent on what's going on there.

The 5.01.02.22 firmware is available here http://siglent.freeforums.org/new-fw-for-sds1000cml-and-cnl-t77.html (http://siglent.freeforums.org/new-fw-for-sds1000cml-and-cnl-t77.html) it just hasn't made it onto their download page yet |O


Chris.

Yeah I saw that a while ago but I'm not sure about installing it without Siglent actually pushing it out. What's the deal with this version, is it actually finished or a pre-release beta or something? How did it get up there, from Siglent or a third party? If I install it before they officially have it on their site and something goes wrong am I covered under warranty or will I get a response like "We didn't actually release it on our site yet, too bad"? Etc.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on August 17, 2013, 07:55:13 am

 What's the deal with this version, is it actually finished or a pre-release beta or something? How did it get up there, from Siglent or a third party?

New scopes from Siglent factory have  HW 5.01.02.22,  (least) in  SDS1102CNL and SDS1102CML models.  This I have seen with my own eyes and also tested these version scopes.

After then, I have asked from Siglent if I can get this new FW also for update units I have in stock with FW 5.01.02.13 and also for update my customers equipments if need.  After this, they send me FW5.01.02.22 update zip.  But, in this phase they know what are versions what I may update with it.  So, I do not have information if it is fully backward compatible with all FW and HW versions. So, becouse this, as long as I do not have more trusted information, I need give warning that I do not know if it is compatible or not.

 
I have test updated one SDS1072CML HW 11-62-3.3 with 5.01.02.22.  It looks like it works but without full tests of course - who can test all settings combinations - no one.
Then I tested if it can downgrade. It can. I have then "update" it back to 5.01.02.13 and it looks like it works.  So, it looks like bridge to run back is not broken. But, how about older and other versions - I really do not know and I do not k now if this is reason why there is not yet official downloadable.



With these updates need be careful becouse example old times when updates was not public there was situation that some very old version need first update to some more new version but not newest, and then update to newest. (this was information get directly from Siglent and for SDG1000). And with this kind of thing - Siglent is not alone.  Also example Owon, all HW versions are not compatible with all FW versions. And I suspect this situation is with many brands.

----------------------------
btw and fully off topic (of course as usual):


Some things, just  for playing and study with SDS. (http://siglent.freeforums.org/sds1000-series-files-to-usb-dav-csv-rgu-set-bmp-t79.html)

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Zbig on August 17, 2013, 10:50:49 am
I too updated my SDS1072CML HW 11-62-3.3 SW 5.01.02.13 to 5.01.02.22 and the trigger status kept jumping between "Ready", "Armed", "Auto" while using auto trigger on slower timebases. Didn't like it at all so I've reverted to 5.01.02.13 but rf-loop told me there are some good changes and bugfixes, too.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on August 17, 2013, 01:29:41 pm
I too updated my SDS1072CML HW 11-62-3.3 SW 5.01.02.13 to 5.01.02.22 and the trigger status kept jumping between "Ready", "Armed", "Auto" while using auto trigger on slower timebases. Didn't like it at all so I've reverted to 5.01.02.13 but rf-loop told me there are some good changes and bugfixes, too.

This "ready-armed-auto" sequence is "true" but flickering is not nice looking and also it now interfere with TFT update period.

Default scope.
Connect probe to 1kHz probe cal output.   Set scope horizontal to 50ms/div.
Set now trigger so that level is example under this signal level so it can not find trig. In this case it generate "auto" trig and  it can see when it slowly do this sequence "auto -> armed -> trigged"
Then move trigger level so that it is around middle of signal. Now you see it do not generate "auto" and  sequence is "armed -> trigged"
Keep trig level this. Change trigger to Normal. Still it show "armed -> trigged.... armed.. trig's ...."
Move trigger level to under signal level ... "...armed...ready and now it waits until it find trigger.
now of course it do not force trigger by auto. In auto mode it generate auto force for trigger in case it do not find trig.

With more fast speeds it can not update this in TFT and it looks like it blinks random. More fast times it do not blink if it finds trig there read steady Trig'd. But if fast speeds move trigger level so that there is not trig its start blink becouse this autotrig is more slow. First it need find that oh...there is not trig... lets force trig (and in this case of course it is out of sync with signal)
Very fast speeds if not find trig (move trig level out from signal) , only there read "auto" and it trigs with auto period  and tell to user that trigger is not from signal, it come from auto process. Then if change trigger level so that it find continuous steady trig enough fast it do not start auto trig process and there reads steady "Trig'd". 


Idea is right and  good but solution need some fine adjustments for this indicator  timing so that it do not "random blink" when speed is so that it can not update to tft and right for human eye so that it display Ready, Armed, Trigged and Auto just as it give best information to user, but then depending of settings and horz speeds and signal itself timing need be so that it do not "blinking randomly" becouse indicator can not update, then need think what tell to user best useful information about current working status related to trigger.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Zbig on August 17, 2013, 01:54:31 pm
Hmm, thank you for the detailed description, rf-loop. I perceived it as an obvious bug before but now you've convinced me they've actually tried to make it more informative and let you know the exact moment the auto trig is enforced. But I too think it's still not exactly optimal way to do that. When something is apparently randomly flickering at you, "something's not right" is your first and natural reaction. Also, if you're capturing screenshots, you'll have random things in the trig status field. Now, maybe they should do away with the trig status in the text form and substitute it with a row of individually "dimmed/lit-up" symbols, like: "[A][T][Au]" (too bad that "Armed" and "Auto" both start with an "A" ;)).
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: illyesgeza on August 19, 2013, 12:52:35 pm
Who knows what it is "Depth Recover" in the FACTORY submenu in SAVE/RECAL menu on a SIGLENT SDS 1102CML?
In the HELP menu there is nothing about it.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Zbig on August 19, 2013, 01:02:14 pm
Who knows what it is "Depth Recover" in the FACTORY submenu in SAVE/RECAL menu on a SIGLENT SDS 1102CML?
In the HELP menu there is nothing about it.

I'm not sure, but I guess it's like a reset to factory defaults but even more ;)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: illyesgeza on August 22, 2013, 09:50:38 am
At last, after I flashed the new SIGLENT SDS1102CML FW: 5.01.02.22 on my dso, I succeeded to download all the 1048576 bytes of data on both channels.
The correct syntax to do this: STOP;C1:WF? that's how get channel 1
After that: C2:WF?;RUN for the second channel.
The STOP and RUN are the main issue here.
This is not documented neither by SIGLENT nor by LECROY
If you use *TRG before WF? you'l get only the short mem data because the FW switch temporarily to NORMAL MEM mode
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Smoking on August 26, 2013, 08:54:25 am
I do not think it is very nice to make a assumption that we are pretending!

Actually, it is not very nice that you pretend with your websites that you are Atten/Siglent. Which you aren't. You are just a reseller.

Hi,

Once again we do not pretend , we are a official distributor and web-shop please check :
http://www.siglent.eu/about-siglenteu-store (http://www.siglent.eu/about-siglenteu-store)
Please stop making wrongful assumptions if you have any questions contact me at : http://www.siglent.eu/contacts/ (http://www.siglent.eu/contacts/)

Siglent.eu
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: BravoV on August 26, 2013, 09:19:24 am
I do not think it is very nice to make a assumption that we are pretending!

Actually, it is not very nice that you pretend with your websites that you are Atten/Siglent. Which you aren't. You are just a reseller.

Hi,

Once again we do not pretend , we are a official distributor and web-shop please check :
http://www.siglent.eu/about-siglenteu-store (http://www.siglent.eu/about-siglenteu-store)
Please stop making wrongful assumptions if you have any questions contact me at : http://www.siglent.eu/contacts/ (http://www.siglent.eu/contacts/)

Siglent.eu
Although both have the word "official", do you understand the difference between "official manufacturer" vs " official reseller/distributor" ?

Just because someone own the domain name "siglent.xxx", doesn't mean automatically they are the "official manufacturer", am I right ? Again, I'm talking manufacturer, "NOT" reseller nor distributor.

Thread to watch -> [WARNING] Atten.eu (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/korad-psu-where-to-buy/) , same owner of atten.eu , siglent.eu .... who knows what else hiding behind the sleeve ...  >:D
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Bored@Work on August 26, 2013, 04:44:41 pm
I do not think it is very nice to make a assumption that we are pretending!

Actually, it is not very nice that you pretend with your websites that you are Atten/Siglent. Which you aren't. You are just a reseller.

Hi,

Once again we do not pretend , we are a official distributor and web-shop please check :
http://www.siglent.eu/about-siglenteu-store (http://www.siglent.eu/about-siglenteu-store)
Please stop making wrongful assumptions if you have any questions contact me at : http://www.siglent.eu/contacts/ (http://www.siglent.eu/contacts/)

Siglent.eu

Either you are stupid or you pretend to be stupid. Neither of these alternatives really encourages to patronize your business. 
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: echen1024 on August 27, 2013, 02:16:04 am
I do not think it is very nice to make a assumption that we are pretending!

Actually, it is not very nice that you pretend with your websites that you are Atten/Siglent. Which you aren't. You are just a reseller.

Hi,

Once again we do not pretend , we are a official distributor and web-shop please check :
http://www.siglent.eu/about-siglenteu-store (http://www.siglent.eu/about-siglenteu-store)
Please stop making wrongful assumptions if you have any questions contact me at : http://www.siglent.eu/contacts/ (http://www.siglent.eu/contacts/)

Siglent.eu

Either you are stupid or you pretend to be stupid. Neither of these alternatives really encourages to patronize your business.

That website looks just like the typical scam in a computer security book.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: JOERGG on August 27, 2013, 11:24:09 pm
Siglent SPD3303, channel 1 is channel 2, vice versa? You confuse me.
Are there two different models? I am aware of the difference in resulution between D and S model, but did you change the channelorder between the two?
http://www.siglent.com/en/news/detail.aspx?id=100000040068753&nodecode=119002004 (http://www.siglent.com/en/news/detail.aspx?id=100000040068753&nodecode=119002004)
Take a look at "Timing Output Function by Panel" and "Real-time Waveform Display".
Kind regards
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: BeerCannon on August 31, 2013, 04:39:24 am
Hi,

I'm new to this forum (and somewhat new to electronics, for that matter).  It's nice to see Siglent here on the forum.  I've been looking at the SDS1102CML and the Rigol DS1102E.  I have no urgent need for an oscilloscope at this point but I think I could learn a lot by having one.  I really like the larger screen, better pixel resolution and larger memory size of the Siglent.  However, the lock-up issues and apparent delays in publishing firmware updates have me a little nervous about the SDS1102CML.

How committed is Siglent to supporting (and updating firmware) these oscilloscopes in the long term?  Will SDS1102CML firmware revisions continue even if Siglent introduces a new line of DSO's in the near future?

I'm really afraid of buying one, owning it for some time then developing a problem, only to find out that support is discontinued.  I know the price of these devices is low compared to other brands and types of oscilloscopes, but $400 doesn't come easy for hobby pursuits in my household.  Regardless, nobody wants a $400 paperweight on their workbench, right? 

So, what can anyone tell me that will alleviate my concerns about these Siglent 'scopes?  I'm a hobbyist and won't be pushing these things anywhere near their design limits, but if I spend the money on a 'scope, I want it to work reliably.

Thanks in advance for any responses.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Zbig on August 31, 2013, 12:33:13 pm
BeerCannon, don't fall into the logic trap I once found myself in by assuming that if it has programmable logic in it, the manufacturer has to provide you with the firmware updates on a regular basis by some moral obligation. You don't expect this from your microwave manufacturer after all. There's nothing I'm aware of that is seriously wrong with the Siglent SDS1000 series and it basically does what is says on the box. And the firmware won't suddenly go bad on you overnight. Personally I haven't experienced the lock-up issue but it's great to know that the guys here figured out the way around it. From what I know (someone please correct me if I'm wrong), Rigol doesn't post any firmware updates on their website at all - you have to ask them explicitly. I'm pretty sure that both Rigol's and Siglent's entry level products are great at what they are meant for. If you're worried about it becoming obsolete and unsupported, the Siglent SDS1000CML's are much more recent products than Rigol DS1102E. Anyway, pretty much every piece of equipment you buy is more or less "obsolete" at the very time you buy it and there's not much we could do about it other than learning to cope with it ;)

EDIT:
As for the delay in publishing the *.22 FW update by Siglent, I tried this version and wasn't exactly happy with it - that's why I assume they'll just skip it and publish the one they feel is solid enough.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: fluxcapacitor on August 31, 2013, 01:23:07 pm
I do not think it is very nice to make a assumption that we are pretending!

Actually, it is not very nice that you pretend with your websites that you are Atten/Siglent. Which you aren't. You are just a reseller.


Hi,

Once again we do not pretend , we are a official distributor and web-shop please check :
http://www.siglent.eu/about-siglenteu-store (http://www.siglent.eu/about-siglenteu-store)
Please stop making wrongful assumptions if you have any questions contact me at : http://www.siglent.eu/contacts/ (http://www.siglent.eu/contacts/)

Siglent.eu

Either you are stupid or you pretend to be stupid. Neither of these alternatives really encourages to patronize your business.

That website looks just like the typical scam in a computer security book.


http://www.eurid.eu/en/whois-search (http://www.eurid.eu/en/whois-search)

http://nl109546096.fm.alibaba.com/contactinfo.html (http://nl109546096.fm.alibaba.com/contactinfo.html)

http://myworld.ebay.com/j.rijnders/ (http://myworld.ebay.com/j.rijnders/)

http://www.whoismind.com/whois/scoob.net.html (http://www.whoismind.com/whois/scoob.net.html)

http://www.scoob.net/index.php/about-scoob.net (http://www.scoob.net/index.php/about-scoob.net)

http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://nl.linkedin.com/pub/jonas-rijnders/39/3a1/a99&prev=/search%3Fq%3DJR%2BSpecial%2BElectronics%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DjLS%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26channel%3Drcs (http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://nl.linkedin.com/pub/jonas-rijnders/39/3a1/a99&prev=/search%3Fq%3DJR%2BSpecial%2BElectronics%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DjLS%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26channel%3Drcs)


Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: BeerCannon on August 31, 2013, 07:54:25 pm
ZBig,

Thanks for the vote of confidence for the Siglent scope.  I don't expect a stream of firmware updates if the unit is working properly at the current revision.   I also don't expect to turn it on one day and find that it won't boot (unless there's a hardware failure of some sort).  If the firmware is solid, I don't care if they ever update it.  But if there's a known issue, I'd rather buy from a company that will fix it instead of moving on to the next product line without correcting the existing product.  It sounds like Siglent is striving to be such a company.

I was really impressed with the unboxing/overview of the SDS1102CML in the video by ToolBoom.  I also realize that when you look online for criticism of a product, you mostly find the negative experiences, which may be few and far between in the real world.   That's why I figured I'd ask around in a forum such as this one, where I can get some balance.   I also talked to Al at Saelig.com and he had good things to say about the Siglent (as well as the Rigol). 

Thanks again for weighing in.. my anxiety about a potential 'scope purchase is beginning to subside!
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on September 05, 2013, 03:29:16 am
Who knows what it is "Depth Recover" in the FACTORY submenu in SAVE/RECAL menu on a SIGLENT SDS 1102CML?
In the HELP menu there is nothing about it.

I'm not sure, but I guess it's like a reset to factory defaults but even more ;)

"Depth Recover" will remove the stored waveform, setup and  the mask setting of Pass/Fail function.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on September 05, 2013, 03:36:42 am
Siglent SPD3303, channel 1 is channel 2, vice versa? You confuse me.
Are there two different models? I am aware of the difference in resulution between D and S model, but did you change the channelorder between the two?
http://www.siglent.com/en/news/detail.aspx?id=100000040068753&nodecode=119002004 (http://www.siglent.com/en/news/detail.aspx?id=100000040068753&nodecode=119002004)
Take a look at "Timing Output Function by Panel" and "Real-time Waveform Display".
Kind regards

No, we didn't change the channel order between the CH1 and CH2.
The images of "Timing Output Function by Panel" is wrong. We will update the images as soon as possible.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nixxon on September 05, 2013, 07:25:24 pm
Who knows what it is "Depth Recover" in the FACTORY submenu in SAVE/RECAL menu on a SIGLENT SDS 1102CML?
In the HELP menu there is nothing about it.

I'm not sure, but I guess it's like a reset to factory defaults but even more ;)

"Depth Recover" will remove the stored waveform, setup and  the mask setting of Pass/Fail function.

Nice to see that user 'Siglent' is online and posting again. Please keep posting your comments. It makes me feel Siglent cares about it's customers.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: israel on September 16, 2013, 05:13:04 pm
HI, I have a question for the support Siglent.

which is the latest hardware version of SDS1102CML oscilloscope ?

I am interested in purchasing one and I would like to know which is the latest version available

Regards,
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on September 16, 2013, 08:39:02 pm
Not official answer but AFAIK latest I have seen arrived some time ago from factory:
HW 11-62-3.5
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: israel on September 16, 2013, 09:21:20 pm
Thank you very much rf-loop.
your answer is very useful for my  :-+



Best regards
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: israel on September 18, 2013, 08:12:59 pm
HI, I finally bought a SDS1102CML in UK.  :D :D

someone could provide me with the latest firmware?

on the Siglent website is the 5.01.02.13. but I know there is a newer version not yet published.

Best regards
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: hax on December 07, 2013, 10:57:47 pm
Hello!

I am trying to measure Source-Drain voltage drop in switching DC-DC converter with Siglent SDS1072CML:
(http://img.radiokot.ru/files/47221/thumbnail/7cj3n3hot.png) (http://img.radiokot.ru/files/47221/7cj3n3hot.png)

Source-Gate voltage drops down to -13V to open MOSFET fully:
(http://img.radiokot.ru/files/47221/thumbnail/7cj7hg357.png) (http://img.radiokot.ru/files/47221/medium/7cj7hg357.png)

I have a 750mA load connected.
Peak current across Drain-Source is about 1A ( measured on Rx resistor):
(http://img.radiokot.ru/files/47221/thumbnail/7cj8dz270.png) (http://img.radiokot.ru/files/47221/medium/7cj8dz270.png)
(http://img.radiokot.ru/files/47221/thumbnail/7cj9r4y4t.png) (http://img.radiokot.ru/files/47221/medium/7cj9r4y4t.png)

The Drain-source image looks like this:
(http://img.radiokot.ru/files/47221/thumbnail/7cjbk8v75.png) (http://img.radiokot.ru/files/47221/medium/7cjbk8v75.png)

The voltage drop across open MOSFET is 900mV!  The accuracy of oscilloscope is 0.2 * V/div, so there is +-100mV error range.

According to datasheet, voltage drop can not be more then 500mV:
(http://img.radiokot.ru/files/47221/thumbnail/7cjf22sz1.png) (http://img.radiokot.ru/files/47221/medium/7cjf22sz1.png)

And if calculated from RdsOn=0 .14Ohm, it should be about 140mV, which is far from 900mV displayed.

The strange behaviour of oscilloscope is that increasing V/div drifts Vmax and it eventually goes above zero to 1V with 10V/div!
I can accept it with 10V/div because error is 0.2 * V/div = 0.2*10 = 2V, but with 500 mV/div readings should be close to reality, otherwise it is impossible to find out whether I am correctly driving MOSFET.

I have latest firmware. I've been trying switching probe ( and oscilloscope settings ) to 1x/10x without improvement.

I took my old USB oscilloscope from the shelf, and it shows Drain-Source voltage drop <300mV and does not have that strange zero drift with V/div encrease:

(http://img.radiokot.ru/files/47221/thumbnail/7ga8etzgb.gif) (http://img.radiokot.ru/files/47221/medium/7ga8etzgb.gif)

How could I correctly measure Drain-Source drop with my Siglent?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: illyesgeza on December 08, 2013, 08:13:23 am
use two channels measurement with substracion
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: hax on December 08, 2013, 07:41:22 pm
Unfortunatelly it does no work.

With 500mV/div I am able to set offset voltage to -36V and see voltage on source( CH2, blue) and on drain (CH1, yellow).

Drain voltage appears to be higher when source which is impossible:
(http://img.radiokot.ru/files/47221/thumbnail/7h94pe0s8.png) (http://img.radiokot.ru/files/47221/7h94pe0s8.png)

And math does not show anything:
(http://img.radiokot.ru/files/47221/thumbnail/7h94apoxn.png) (http://img.radiokot.ru/files/47221/7h94apoxn.png)

With 200mV/div maximum offset voltage is 1.6V so I can not use it.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 08, 2013, 08:03:17 pm
No offset required, use AC coupling, same reference(0V) both channels(only 1 needed) and 1 probe on source, 1 probe on drain.
Then use minus to show the difference between channels.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Mark_O on December 08, 2013, 09:27:41 pm
4ADC + less interleave distortion due better ratio of clock jitter on non-dedicated FPGA clockout pins
                       vs. phase shit needs for 1GSs and amount of ADCs.

5ADC - more interleave distortion due worse ratio of clock jitter on non-dedicated FPGA clockout pins
                       vs. phase shit needs for 1GSs and amount of ADCs.

Ah, _shift_.  :)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: illyesgeza on December 09, 2013, 08:37:22 am
I am not shure that you can set 36v offset on 500mV/div.
Probably that's the problem. You overdrive the input amplifier
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 09, 2013, 08:59:44 am
I am not shure that you can set 36v offset on 500mV/div.
Probably that's the problem. You overdrive the input amplifier

You do not need offset.
Use AC coupling in each probe menu.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: hax on December 09, 2013, 10:41:17 am
1) I think I can use +-40V offset on 500mV range:
(http://img.radiokot.ru/files/47221/thumbnail/7hxumg9zb.png) (http://img.radiokot.ru/files/47221/7hxumg9zb.png)

2) I do not think I can use AC couping. With AC coupling channels have different offset voltage:
(http://img.radiokot.ru/files/47221/thumbnail/7hxyklesq.png) (http://img.radiokot.ru/files/47221/7hxyklesq.png)

And math does not account for it. It substracts what is seen on screen, and it does not give me any usefull information:
(http://img.radiokot.ru/files/47221/thumbnail/7hxuvtl5o.png) (http://img.radiokot.ru/files/47221/7hxuvtl5o.png)

Also original question is still actual. While specified accuracy is:
(http://img.radiokot.ru/files/47221/thumbnail/7hy538t2u.png) (http://img.radiokot.ru/files/47221/7hy538t2u.png)

For offset=0,
500mV/div:
expected reading=140mV:

0.03*140 + 500*0.2 + 0.01*0 + 0.2*500 + 100 = +-304mV

and I see 900mV instead of expected 140mV +- 300mV.

(BTW now I realize that 0.2*V/div+100mV error is too high to sense 140mV even with 206mV/div).

I am affraid the only way to sense Source-Drain drop with 140mV - 36V swing is to use 1V resistor+zener to limit swing to 140mV - 1V. Then I will be able to sense at 100mV/div range.

Currently picture on 100mV/div looks like this ( DC Coupling):
(http://img.radiokot.ru/files/47221/thumbnail/7hyv32foy.png) (http://img.radiokot.ru/files/47221/7hyv32foy.png)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: hax on December 09, 2013, 06:38:59 pm
Ok, so I soldered 1n4148 and 1K resistor to limit forward voltage to ~0.7V:
(http://img.radiokot.ru/files/47221/thumbnail/7ibsbytek.png) (http://img.radiokot.ru/files/47221/medium/7ibsbytek.png)

and was able to measure voltage drop on MOSFET at 200,100,50 and 20mV/div:

(http://img.radiokot.ru/files/47221/thumbnail/7ibve9dvk.png) (http://img.radiokot.ru/files/47221/medium/7ibve9dvk.png)
(http://img.radiokot.ru/files/47221/thumbnail/7iby5jsri.png) (http://img.radiokot.ru/files/47221/medium/7iby5jsri.png)
(http://img.radiokot.ru/files/47221/thumbnail/7iby69rjv.png) (http://img.radiokot.ru/files/47221/medium/7iby69rjv.png)
(http://img.radiokot.ru/files/47221/thumbnail/7ibyj9247.png) (http://img.radiokot.ru/files/47221/medium/7ibyj9247.png)

It appears to be ~80mV which is very good.

So there is a practical way to measure voltages with large  swing. It is important to use diode with low capacitance.

But I am little dissapponted with oscilloscope accuracy which does not follow specification and appears to be lower then my old USB oscilloscope.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rjeng on December 21, 2013, 07:09:14 pm
Hi,

I recently purchased SDS1102CNL.  With the 1x scope probe attached to the build in 1khz reference signal, vertical setting at 200mV/div, the square wave looks distorted.  Turn the knob to 500mV/div, the square wave went back to normal.  The software version is 5.01.02.13 and the hardware version is 11-62-3.5

Is there a setting?  Firmware update?  Or the unit is possibly defective?

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 21, 2013, 07:55:47 pm
Quote
Is there a setting?  Firmware update?  Or the unit is possibly defective?

You have the latest Firmware.  :)
It is normal for these entry level scopes to wrongly display the Calibration waveform with the wrong input settings. Many scopes wrongly display any waveform that as largely OFF the display.
Set correctly for 1 KHz and 3 V pp (1V/div) all will be OK.

Get into the habit of using ONLY 10x probe and scope settings and only use 1x when you need to.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: hax on December 21, 2013, 08:09:13 pm
Valid voltage range for 200mV/div is +-1.6V.

Reference is 0...3V.

Unfortunatelly all signals above range are displayed distorted, and no warnings are given.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: TheBay on December 22, 2013, 02:48:45 am
I'm looking at the SDS1102CML, where is the best place to buy one in the UK, they are either grossly overpriced their RRP or from China and am concerned about import taxes and warranty.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: echen1024 on December 22, 2013, 03:39:17 am
I'm looking at the SDS1102CML, where is the best place to buy one in the UK, they are either grossly overpriced their RRP or from China and am concerned about import taxes and warranty.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Siglent-SDS1102CML-Digital-Oscilloscope-100MHz-1GSa-s-Real-Time-Sample-Rate-/271222811453?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item3f2623ab3d (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Siglent-SDS1102CML-Digital-Oscilloscope-100MHz-1GSa-s-Real-Time-Sample-Rate-/271222811453?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item3f2623ab3d)

I've bought from them before. They can usually give you a small discount if you ask.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: TheBay on December 22, 2013, 10:44:34 am
Can you try sending that seller a question as ebay won't let me, I think he may have blocked me? I only asked a few days ago whether his prices were incorrect as he had them for over £1200? As I was trying to buy one. Also Canton is China so customs tax...?


I'm looking at the SDS1102CML, where is the best place to buy one in the UK, they are either grossly overpriced their RRP or from China and am concerned about import taxes and warranty.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Siglent-SDS1102CML-Digital-Oscilloscope-100MHz-1GSa-s-Real-Time-Sample-Rate-/271222811453?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item3f2623ab3d (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Siglent-SDS1102CML-Digital-Oscilloscope-100MHz-1GSa-s-Real-Time-Sample-Rate-/271222811453?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item3f2623ab3d)

I've bought from them before. They can usually give you a small discount if you ask.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Farrari on December 23, 2013, 03:19:45 am
Quote
Is there a setting?  Firmware update?  Or the unit is possibly defective?

You have the latest Firmware.  :)
It is normal for these entry level scopes to wrongly display the Calibration waveform with the wrong input settings. Many scopes wrongly display any waveform that as largely OFF the display.
Set correctly for 1 KHz and 3 V pp (1V/div) all will be OK.

Get into the habit of using ONLY 10x probe and scope settings and only use 1x when you need to.

Sorry, but my Owan SDS7102E  is Just the opposite.
With the 1x scope probe attached to the build in 1khz, 5Vpp reference signal, vertical setting at           100mV/div, the wave should not be dispalyed full scale. howerver, it is good but valid when adjusting   the vertical position.
While with 10x scope probe, it seems like what Siglent SDS1102CNL shows.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 23, 2013, 04:12:55 am
Quote
Sorry, but my Owan SDS7102E  is Just the opposite.

The point I have tried to make is by using a 10x probe and scope settings there is a lesser chance of an unusual off-screen waveform and your scope is more protected from unknown (high) voltages especially the many with only 300V pp inputs.

As many will know this was to be avoided at great length with analogue CRT scopes to prevent damage to the vertical plate deflection amplifiers.

rjeng indicated that at correct settings the waveform was displayed correctly.
Quote
Turn the knob to 500mV/div, the square wave went back to normal

I wonder if rjeng had just seen something he didn't understand and was seeking an explanation. The fact he has not replied might suggest we gave him it.  :)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: echen1024 on December 23, 2013, 04:20:48 am
Can you try sending that seller a question as ebay won't let me, I think he may have blocked me? I only asked a few days ago whether his prices were incorrect as he had them for over £1200? As I was trying to buy one. Also Canton is China so customs tax...?


I'm looking at the SDS1102CML, where is the best place to buy one in the UK, they are either grossly overpriced their RRP or from China and am concerned about import taxes and warranty.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Siglent-SDS1102CML-Digital-Oscilloscope-100MHz-1GSa-s-Real-Time-Sample-Rate-/271222811453?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item3f2623ab3d (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Siglent-SDS1102CML-Digital-Oscilloscope-100MHz-1GSa-s-Real-Time-Sample-Rate-/271222811453?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item3f2623ab3d)

I've bought from them before. They can usually give you a small discount if you ask.
I contacted him for you
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: TheBay on December 23, 2013, 10:54:56 am
Appreciate, I sent him a message a while back to help him as he had £1000 in all his prices, but I think he took it the wrong way and blocked me :(

Did you pay customs tax?


Can you try sending that seller a question as ebay won't let me, I think he may have blocked me? I only asked a few days ago whether his prices were incorrect as he had them for over £1200? As I was trying to buy one. Also Canton is China so customs tax...?


I'm looking at the SDS1102CML, where is the best place to buy one in the UK, they are either grossly overpriced their RRP or from China and am concerned about import taxes and warranty.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Siglent-SDS1102CML-Digital-Oscilloscope-100MHz-1GSa-s-Real-Time-Sample-Rate-/271222811453?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item3f2623ab3d (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Siglent-SDS1102CML-Digital-Oscilloscope-100MHz-1GSa-s-Real-Time-Sample-Rate-/271222811453?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item3f2623ab3d)

I've bought from them before. They can usually give you a small discount if you ask.
I contacted him for you
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rjeng on December 24, 2013, 05:09:06 am
Quote
Sorry, but my Owan SDS7102E  is Just the opposite.

The point I have tried to make is by using a 10x probe and scope settings there is a lesser chance of an unusual off-screen waveform and your scope is more protected from unknown (high) voltages especially the many with only 300V pp inputs.

As many will know this was to be avoided at great length with analogue CRT scopes to prevent damage to the vertical plate deflection amplifiers.

rjeng indicated that at correct settings the waveform was displayed correctly.
Quote
Turn the knob to 500mV/div, the square wave went back to normal

I wonder if rjeng had just seen something he didn't understand and was seeking an explanation. The fact he has not replied might suggest we gave him it.  :)

I would've think my scope is normal if it displays the waveform like Ferrari's, but I don't.  In fact, rather than clipped waveform, I see a gradual ramp-up at 1x which is puzzling.  Switching to 10x, I see similar to Ferrari's (due to uncompensated scope probe).

For now, I will use 10x unless Siglent is providing a solution, but I take it that this is typical of low cost scope?  :-\ 
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Farrari on December 24, 2013, 07:56:45 am
Sorry, finally I compensated scope probe, and I find the same problem. I guess it is a matter of  hardware.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: vehf277 on January 06, 2014, 12:06:37 am

Hello fellow EEVbloggers,

I am a technical support engineer from Siglent, and so glad to offer effective technical support, trouble-shooting and problem solving for all Siglent products.

Also, we will appreciate if you could share your experiences and some improvement suggestions with us.
 
Any comments will be highly appreciated.

SIGLENT TECHNOLOGIES CO., LTD.
Hi!
Is there a hardware difference between Siglent SDG1025 and Siglent SDG1050?
Thank you in advance:)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: echen1024 on January 06, 2014, 12:38:45 am
I don't think so, however, no one has been able to hack the Siglent products yet.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on January 07, 2014, 12:47:53 am

Hello fellow EEVbloggers,

I am a technical support engineer from Siglent, and so glad to offer effective technical support, trouble-shooting and problem solving for all Siglent products.

Also, we will appreciate if you could share your experiences and some improvement suggestions with us.
 
Any comments will be highly appreciated.

SIGLENT TECHNOLOGIES CO., LTD.
Hi!
Is there a hardware difference between Siglent SDG1025 and Siglent SDG1050?
Thank you in advance:)
Hello, SIGLENT SDG1025 and SDG1050 have the same hardware.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: mainman on January 08, 2014, 08:00:25 am
I just purchased a siglent SHS810 and I am regretting it worse than that hantek DSO purchase I made earlier. The multimeter section of the siglent is totally screwed up out the box. The scope portion is working but the meter section is locked up. In meter mode the value of 1.0 is locked on the screen, no i do not have the unit in stop mode. The unit is stuck in manual configuration on the measurements and continuity checker is constantly latched. I can not take a single measurement because the whole multimeter is locked. I upgraded the firmware and it has the same issue. When I can manage to scroll to DC current measurement the number 1 keeps randomly flashing.

My Faulty Siglent SHS810
SHS810 FAULT (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xEIzrDANNQ#)

Russian Guy Faulty ShS806
shs806 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiV0B4YUS4Y#ws)


Update

After a back and forth with a stumped Siglent technical support who encouraged me to disassemble the unit for the record and reseat the multimeter module which did not solve the fault,  the real solution for my problem came from a third party on how to fix the scope.  The problem I was having with the Shs810 was not isolated to my scope or even the model.  Another user from Russia with a Shs806 discovered that the crystal clocking the multimeter module on his scope had a cold solder joint. Examined my shs810 and discovered the same thing. I retouched the joints and the shs810 has not acted up since.


During my closing emails from SIGLENT China the best they would do for me is replace my shs810 100mhz scope with a shs806 60mhz scope because they had no available shs810, now does that make any sense. The Siglent tec tried to convince me that going from a 100mhz band to a 60mhz band after I freckin paid for the 100mhz band is not a down grade and no I was not offered back the difference in price.

Bottom line is Siglent as a company did not solve the problem, a problem that was a result of their manufacturing. As a result of horrible customer service I will never buy from Siglent again. If you buy Siglent make sure you can return it to the seller if it goes bad on you and pray that if it does go bad it does so in the return window because beyond that you are at the mercy of Siglent warranty and their mentality with me with a product I bought defective out the box was "you got a bad brand new unit fix it your damn self" which is what happened

Also be warned of the re branded version of this product line being made for BK Precision.  Models 2511, 2512, 2515 and 2516. Your only hope here is if things go bad within the warranty period since it is a BK branded product than BK will actually honor the warranty.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: vehf277 on January 08, 2014, 11:36:09 pm

Hello fellow EEVbloggers,

I am a technical support engineer from Siglent, and so glad to offer effective technical support, trouble-shooting and problem solving for all Siglent products.

Also, we will appreciate if you could share your experiences and some improvement suggestions with us.
 
Any comments will be highly appreciated.

SIGLENT TECHNOLOGIES CO., LTD.
Hi!
Is there a hardware difference between Siglent SDG1025 and Siglent SDG1050?
Thank you in advance:)
Hi!
Thank you very much for your rapid response!:)
One more question. Can I have just 30 MHz in particular sine wave output  from Siglent SDG1025?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Farrari on January 10, 2014, 12:36:32 am

Hello fellow EEVbloggers,

I am a technical support engineer from Siglent, and so glad to offer effective technical support, trouble-shooting and problem solving for all Siglent products.

Also, we will appreciate if you could share your experiences and some improvement suggestions with us.
 
Any comments will be highly appreciated.

SIGLENT TECHNOLOGIES CO., LTD.
Hi!
Is there a hardware difference between Siglent SDG1025 and Siglent SDG1050?
Thank you in advance:)
Hi!
Thank you very much for your rapid response!:)
One more question. Can I have just 30 MHz in particular sine wave output  from Siglent SDG1025?
If you just use sine output,you can't  get a 30 MHz sine,but you can use the arbitrary function to output 30MHz sine.
The highest frequency of arbitrary wave is 5MHz, use Easywave software to draw a 6 cycles sine wave,it can output a 30MHz sine.
But all the parameters of this one is not very good.Maybe this will help you.    ;D
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: vehf277 on January 10, 2014, 02:59:07 pm
Thank you!
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: vehf277 on January 15, 2014, 10:39:54 pm

Hello fellow EEVbloggers,

I am a technical support engineer from Siglent, and so glad to offer effective technical support, trouble-shooting and problem solving for all Siglent products.

Also, we will appreciate if you could share your experiences and some improvement suggestions with us.
 
Any comments will be highly appreciated.

SIGLENT TECHNOLOGIES CO., LTD.
Hi!
Is there the official way to upgrade Siglent SDG1025 to get 50MHz sine signal?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: echen1024 on January 16, 2014, 01:02:58 am

Hello fellow EEVbloggers,

I am a technical support engineer from Siglent, and so glad to offer effective technical support, trouble-shooting and problem solving for all Siglent products.

Also, we will appreciate if you could share your experiences and some improvement suggestions with us.
 
Any comments will be highly appreciated.

SIGLENT TECHNOLOGIES CO., LTD.
Hi!
Is there the official way to upgrade Siglent SDG1025 to get 50MHz sine signal?
No.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: vehf277 on January 16, 2014, 06:08:17 pm

Hello fellow EEVbloggers,

I am a technical support engineer from Siglent, and so glad to offer effective technical support, trouble-shooting and problem solving for all Siglent products.

Also, we will appreciate if you could share your experiences and some improvement suggestions with us.
 
Any comments will be highly appreciated.

SIGLENT TECHNOLOGIES CO., LTD.
Hi!
Is there the official way to upgrade Siglent SDG1025 to get 50MHz sine signal?
No.
I asked Siglent.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: echen1024 on January 17, 2014, 12:39:18 am
And I was helping you by telling you that there is no software upgrade to change it to 50MHz. It hasn't even been hacked.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: wilheldp on January 17, 2014, 01:00:44 am
Even if there was such a hack, what does Siglent have to gain by letting you in on that fact?

Unless you were asking if there was a software option to purchase and upgrade the unit...in which case it would probably be listed on Siglent's website or their authorized resellers.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tzok on January 17, 2014, 03:27:26 pm
I've recently bought an SDS1022DL DSO and I think I've found some bugs in it's firmware:
- trigger level doesn't match the displayed marker/line/value (and it's offset from real level depends on a trace position) - I've found the same complaint about LeCroy WaveAce 1001,
- in the time zoom mode at a maximal zoom or near to it scrolling of the time window doesn't work or works unpredictably (sometimes when I zoom out and in it starts to work but i.e. only in one direction),
- inverting (even a grounded) channel in XY mode causes its offset for about -500mV, YT mode is not affected.
I hope you can fix this issues in the next firmware release.

I've prepared a video-demonstration of described issues:
http://youtu.be/-C92Yr_gFI4 (http://youtu.be/-C92Yr_gFI4)

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: kebogen on January 20, 2014, 07:28:27 am
I've recently bought an SDS1022DL DSO and I think I've found some bugs in it's firmware:
- trigger level doesn't match the displayed marker/line/value (and it's offset from real level depends on a trace position) - I've found the same complaint about LeCroy WaveAce 1001,
- in the time zoom mode at a maximal zoom or near to it scrolling of the time window doesn't work or works unpredictably (sometimes when I zoom out and in it starts to work but i.e. only in one direction),
- inverting (even a grounded) channel in XY mode causes its offset for about -500mV, YT mode is not affected.
I hope you can fix this issues in the next firmware release.

I've prepared a video-demonstration of described issues:
http://youtu.be/-C92Yr_gFI4 (http://youtu.be/-C92Yr_gFI4)
I don't think it is a bug about the XY mode, from your video you haven't input anything to the two channels, and when you invert the wave, the phase will change 180 degrees, so you will get an offset. :-[
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: kebogen on January 20, 2014, 07:29:42 am
I've recently bought an SDS1022DL DSO and I think I've found some bugs in it's firmware:
- trigger level doesn't match the displayed marker/line/value (and it's offset from real level depends on a trace position) - I've found the same complaint about LeCroy WaveAce 1001,
- in the time zoom mode at a maximal zoom or near to it scrolling of the time window doesn't work or works unpredictably (sometimes when I zoom out and in it starts to work but i.e. only in one direction),
- inverting (even a grounded) channel in XY mode causes its offset for about -500mV, YT mode is not affected.
I hope you can fix this issues in the next firmware release.

I've prepared a video-demonstration of described issues:
http://youtu.be/-C92Yr_gFI4 (http://youtu.be/-C92Yr_gFI4)
I don't think it is a bug about the XY mode, from your video you haven't input anything to the two channels, and when you invert the wave, the phase will change 180 degrees, so you will get an offset. :-[
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tzok on January 20, 2014, 04:04:06 pm
When there is no signal the dot should in the center of the screen, you can not invert 0, as 0 = -0.
How would you explain that if a channel is internally connected to GND (Coupling: GND) the single dot is exactly a half way between center and inverted "no signal" position. For me it is something screwed up in the firmware and in the XY mode the calibration value is subtracted from the raw ADC value after its inversion, effectively being added to it. While when a channel is coupled to GND the voltage offset calibration value seems to be completely ignored (but only in the XY mode).
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: kebogen on January 21, 2014, 06:21:49 am
When there is no signal the dot should in the center of the screen, you can not invert 0, as 0 = -0.
How would you explain that if a channel is internally connected to GND (Coupling: GND) the single dot is exactly a half way between center and inverted "no signal" position. For me it is something screwed up in the firmware and in the XY mode the calibration value is subtracted from the raw ADC value after its inversion, effectively being added to it. While when a channel is coupled to GND the voltage offset calibration value seems to be completely ignored (but only in the XY mode).

The XY mode display connects to the position of two signal, when you change coupling, the position will change.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tzok on January 21, 2014, 08:28:05 am
There was no input signal, it is just a single dot, changing coupling between AC and DC does not affect dot position. XY mode is very simple (at least in analog scopes, but DSO should "emulate" this), and without the signal the dot should remain in the center of screen, it doesn't matter if input amplifiers are in inverting or non-inverting mode. Inverted 0 is still 0, so it shouldn't move the dot from the center of a screen in any axis.

New firmware which I have received from Siglent have resolved issues with time-base zoom and offset of inverted channel in XY mode.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Hydrawerk on January 22, 2014, 12:59:29 am
Is the Siglent Technical Support man still around here? I would like to ask him when are they going to distribute new SDS2000 series scopes in Europe.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on January 22, 2014, 06:04:59 am
Is the Siglent Technical Support man still around here? I would like to ask him when are they going to distribute new SDS2000 series scopes in Europe.

My information is they are on Spring break until Feb 6
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: kebogen on January 25, 2014, 01:35:30 am
Is the Siglent Technical Support man still around here? I would like to ask him when are they going to distribute new SDS2000 series scopes in Europe.

I don't think the technical support engineer can give you a right answer about that, maybe you can email their sales or marketing man. >:D
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: BMac on January 27, 2014, 02:00:38 pm
I purchased a SDG1020 over a year ago, it failed within the first hour of operation, I have gone back and forth with Siglent service many times all they do is stall and give me the "run around". In this unit Power supplies are good, FPGA is good, failure is in the output amplifier stages on the MAIN board. I have requested an RMA to return the unit for repair or return the main board,  and if that wasnt possible I requested a copy of the schematics, (which the salesman said were in the manual, turns out he was refering to the component layout, unbelievable he doesnt know the difference between Schematics and Component layout). Reguardless when it came to time for him to step up and do something he stopped communicating. I hope this isn't indicative of your whole organization. Please restore my confidence in Siglent and help in the repair or replacement of my SDG 1020 and honor your claimed 3 year warranty.
Hope to hear from you soon.
P.S. I will be coping my correspondence on EEVblog forum for all to see the response of Siglent.

BMac  E.E.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: vehf277 on January 28, 2014, 05:30:03 pm
Siglent answers here very selectively:) Maybe you will be more lucky than me:)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: mainman on January 31, 2014, 03:20:55 am
I purchased a SDG1020 over a year ago, it failed within the first hour of operation, I have gone back and forth with Siglent service many times all they do is stall and give me the "run around". In this unit Power supplies are good, FPGA is good, failure is in the output amplifier stages on the MAIN board. I have requested an RMA to return the unit for repair or return the main board,  and if that wasnt possible I requested a copy of the schematics, (which the salesman said were in the manual, turns out he was refering to the component layout, unbelievable he doesnt know the difference between Schematics and Component layout). Reguardless when it came to time for him to step up and do something he stopped communicating. I hope this isn't indicative of your whole organization. Please restore my confidence in Siglent and help in the repair or replacement of my SDG 1020 and honor your claimed 3 year warranty.
Hope to hear from you soon.
P.S. I will be coping my correspondence on EEVblog forum for all to see the response of Siglent.

BMac  E.E.

3 year warranty LOL, my brand new Siglent Dso was only out the  box for 3 seconds when it failed and Siglent wouldn't fix or replace it with a model of equal value.

Go back to page 11 and read my recent  BAD experience I had with my brand new out the box shs810 DSO with video of my faulty shs810 and another customer faulty shs806.  In the end both of us had to fix our own DSO without help from Siglent, in my case after trying to get siglent to fix or replace it themselves they actually tried to offer me a product of LESSER specifications as a exchange ( I still have the email to back this up ) so I would go away. Horrible company will never buy from again.


Siglent answers here very selectively:) Maybe you will be more lucky than me:)

He is waiting for the thread to expand way pass the page containing the bad review I gave Siglent on their claim to customer service and standing behind their products both of which are a lie based on my experience with Siglent. They sold me a  lemon and refused to solve the problem.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: BMac on January 31, 2014, 01:59:02 pm
Thanks for the reply, although it didnt make me feel very good about the prospect of getting Siglent to honor their warranty. Maybe we can get Dave to take the Siglent addvertisment off his site.

BMac
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tzok on January 31, 2014, 02:23:13 pm
I've not tried to use Siglent's warranty (but anyways I have a distributor's warranty), but I have rather a positive experience with Siglent's technical support. They respond quickly and are very patient. Currently they have holidays, so they are not responding till the 7th Feb.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: echen1024 on January 31, 2014, 04:56:29 pm
I've not tried to use Siglent's warranty (but anyways I have a distributor's warranty), but I have rather a positive experience with Siglent's technical support. They respond quickly and are very patient. Currently they have holidays, so they are not responding till the 7th Feb.
I have used their Technical Support before, and you need to call the China branch. It's much better. And yes, it is Chinese new Year and everyone is on break.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tzok on January 31, 2014, 08:09:08 pm
I've been contacting with Mr Kevin Fu, but I have no idea at what branch does he work.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Macbeth on January 31, 2014, 09:41:47 pm
I've not tried to use Siglent's warranty (but anyways I have a distributor's warranty), but I have rather a positive experience with Siglent's technical support. They respond quickly and are very patient. Currently they have holidays, so they are not responding till the 7th Feb.
I have used their Technical Support before, and you need to call the China branch. It's much better. And yes, it is Chinese new Year and everyone is on break.
Fucking hell, those Chinese don't half get a break and a half for new year. I just get 1st January off, one day, for work. I suspect my Rigol order from TEquipment won't even be considered until well after this week :(
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: echen1024 on January 31, 2014, 10:30:14 pm
In China, there are very little other breaks, and Chinese new Year is the major one. Most companies don't even give fucking Christmas off.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: mimmus78 on February 03, 2014, 12:36:20 pm
Hi support,

two days ago my SPD3303S had a crash.

Power supply buttons where still "working" but display was messed up.

It happened "only" one time in almost 2 year of service, is it a known problem?

Any firmware update (Hardware Version 1.0 - Software Version 1.01.01.01.03R1)?

(http://i.imgur.com/zPXDqZL.jpg)

Thanks,

Domenico
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: sdwarfs on February 04, 2014, 01:53:13 pm
Hello Siglent Support,

it happens often, that your devices of the SDS1000 series "hang forever" at boot time. As far as I know they do not react to the "Default Setup" button, which would fix it.

This firmware bug is critical.
The user can't continue to work with the device. Only some trick works, which needs a computer connected via USB sending "*RST", "*SAV" as commands. So people who don't use a computer in their working lab have to interrupt their work for more than 5 minutes. People who are not so experienced computer users are even scared by this procedure...

Proposed solution
HOWEVER, I'm realistic. I do not expect you will quickly find all bugs in the firmware and fix them.
Instead, I ask you to implement a kind of "FACTORY RESET" function -IN THE BOOTLOADER- (not within the menu, you cannot use it when the device is frozen). And of course release it as newer firmware revision...

This function shall work like this:
1. The user presses -and holds- the "Default setup".
2. Then the user switches on the device.
3. The device resets all settings to FACTORY DEFAULT and reboots as usual.
4. Optional: When bootup is finished a message "FACTORY RESET SUCCESSFUL." is shown.


I expect that this change in your firmware only needs 1 short line of code in the software. Something like:
>> if (button_pressed(BUTTON_DEFAULT_SETUP)) handle_default_settings();

This just needs to be put -DIRECTLY BEFORE- the code line that loads the saved settings at BOOT UP...
>> load_settings(); // initially load settings


So it looks like this:
>> if (button_pressed(BUTTON_DEFAULT_SETUP)) handle_default_settings();
>> load_settings(); // initially load settings

Note to the developer: In this state the device is ready to -read- the settings memory. So it should be initialized enough to reset those memory region (I assume its a EEPROM). Optionally set a temporary variable "show_reset_message = true;" and after the GUI has been loaded show the message "FACTORY RESET FINISHED!" (or similar).

THAT'S ALL...


This is a very small change. But, it improves the user experience a lot! The brand Siglent would significantly improve by such a small change in the software.
You should implement this function in all your devices (especially in future) and write a short note a short note in the manual in the "TROUBLESHOOTING" section like this "Problem: The device hangs at boot" "Solution: Turn device off. Press and hold the 'DEFAULT SETTINGS' button and switch the device "ON". Hold button until message "FACTORY RESET SUCCESSFUL" appears on the screen."

Even your firmware works perfectly, another user in the lab might set the language to Chinese and the next user of the device isn't able to read it -> can't use the menu function. But, he knows how to do the reset and can just reset the device... now everything is English, which he should be able to understand a bit and might maybe change the language to "German" afterwards.


So... dear support: Please, send a copy of this to the product manager (or directly to the firmware developers, if possible).

Sincerely yours,
Stefan
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: kebogen on February 13, 2014, 02:01:31 am
Hi support,

two days ago my SPD3303S had a crash.

Power supply buttons where still "working" but display was messed up.

It happened "only" one time in almost 2 year of service, is it a known problem?

Any firmware update (Hardware Version 1.0 - Software Version 1.01.01.01.03R1)?

(http://i.imgur.com/zPXDqZL.jpg)

Thanks,

Domenico
I think this should be the flat cable problem, the flat cable between mainboard to display screen.
This may cause by shock when you moved it. :-/O
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: mimmus78 on February 23, 2014, 12:39:37 am
I suspect it was some noise not the flat cable.

I happened exactly when I turn on some light, but I was not able to reproduce the problem, so I don't know.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: mainman on March 05, 2014, 05:04:00 am
So Siglent Technical support I noticed you haven't posted for a while, stopping right after I called you out on your lies of caring about good customer service and posted vids of the brand new out the box faulty DSO I bought from your company and its refusal to honor the damn warranty. If I had bought a $20 multimeter it would be a expected risk it would not work, but when I spend $600 on a DSO for that money I expect a fully working product but didn't get it and Siglent refused to remedy the problem.

Additionally there has been others here who have asked you to honor your warranty with the equipment they bought from you.

How the heck is Dave still advertising for this company when they blatantly are not honoring warranties for defective products.

Just recently talked a friend out of buying the DSO I bought and convinced him to get a Rigol.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: mainman on March 05, 2014, 08:01:51 am
Just recently talked a friend out of buying the DSO I bought and convinced him to get a Rigol.

Wise move, wise move indeed!

As for advertisements, with the human population, money tends to override any other passing thoughts about whats right or wrong ;)

To bad I did not have anyone to go to in person for advice when I was DSO shopping, but you live and learn and I learned not to buy Siglent.

Well I don't know Dave personally but I hope money is not the reason he would continue to back a shabby liar company like Siglent.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: echen1024 on March 05, 2014, 05:28:19 pm
Just recently talked a friend out of buying the DSO I bought and convinced him to get a Rigol.

Wise move, wise move indeed!

As for advertisements, with the human population, money tends to override any other passing thoughts about whats right or wrong ;)

To bad I did not have anyone to go to in person for advice when I was DSO shopping, but you live and learn and I learned not to buy Siglent.

Well I don't know Dave personally but I hope money is not the reason he would continue to back a shabby liar company like Siglent.
Dave is not paid to review anything. You think any company would willingly send a function generator to a person who would rail on the build quality of their products?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Rigby on March 05, 2014, 06:53:50 pm
Dave is not paid to review anything. You think any company would willingly send a function generator to a person who would rail on the build quality of their products?

Yes he is.  He is given free gear in exchange for reviews, and he tells them that he will be honest, even if it is unfavorable.  They send him gear anyway.  The only Rigol kit he purchased with his own money was the DP832.  The Agilent scope is a gift from Agilent.  The Tagarno USB microscope is a gift from Tagarno, etc.  There are lots of multimeters he's gotten and there are scopes that he has but just doesn't use, all (or most) were gifts.

I gathered this information by watching Dave's videos and listening to The Amp Hour podcast.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Rigby on March 05, 2014, 07:02:49 pm
How the heck is Dave still advertising for this company when they blatantly are not honoring warranties for defective products.

Probably because they're paying him for ad placement.  That's usually how it works.  He displays ads on eevblog.com in exchange for money. 

Typically, display of ads alone says nothing about the page owner's opinion of the advertiser, and you should infer no endorsement by the page owner (Dave) unless it is explicitly stated somewhere.  The display of Siglent ads is a 100% business transaction, opinion doesn't really count into it.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: echen1024 on March 05, 2014, 07:06:17 pm
Dave is not paid to review anything. You think any company would willingly send a function generator to a person who would rail on the build quality of their products?

Yes he is.  He is given free gear in exchange for reviews, and he tells them that he will be honest, even if it is unfavorable.  They send him gear anyway.  The only Rigol kit he purchased with his own money was the DP832.  The Agilent scope is a gift from Agilent.  The Tagarno USB microscope is a gift from Tagarno, etc.  There are lots of multimeters he's gotten and there are scopes that he has but just doesn't use, all (or most) were gifts.

I gathered this information by watching Dave's videos and listening to The Amp Hour podcast.
That's true. While his gear are gifts form the respective companies, he is still willing to rail on about the negative points, such as claiming the Agilent 4k series is not worth the money.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Rigby on March 05, 2014, 07:08:08 pm
While his gear are gifts form the respective companies, he is still willing to rail on about the negative points, such as claiming the Agilent 4k series is not worth the money.

Yep, that's payment.  Dave has a pretty sweet gig going.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on March 06, 2014, 03:02:19 am
Hello everyone,
            I'm sorry for replying late, we have set up a special branch to solve all the technical problems.
    If you have any problem, suggestion or find some bugs, please email to support@siglent.com.
    We will reply you in 24 hours. Thanks very much.
Tips:
     Support email address: support@siglent.com
     Sales email address:    sales@siglent.com
     Please sent the technical or product problems to support email and sales or price information problems to sales email,
     or it will take you more time to get a reply.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: echen1024 on March 06, 2014, 03:23:24 am
While his gear are gifts form the respective companies, he is still willing to rail on about the negative points, such as claiming the Agilent 4k series is not worth the money.

Yep, that's payment.  Dave has a pretty sweet gig going.
I would trade so much to be in Dave's place though.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: fluxcapacitor on March 16, 2014, 12:18:40 am
Dave also gives items away in contests , used,new and reviewed gear .

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/contests/eevblog-oct-2013-contest-giveaway/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/contests/eevblog-oct-2013-contest-giveaway/)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: COSMOS2K on May 29, 2014, 09:43:33 pm
Hello:
I recently purchased a Siglent SDG1020 works properly.
I have considered installing a high stability oscillator, but I have not found information about it, would appreciate information about this change.

Greetings.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on May 30, 2014, 06:16:17 am
Hello:
I recently purchased a Siglent SDG1020 works properly.
I have considered installing a high stability oscillator, but I have not found information about it, would appreciate information about this change.

Greetings.

I'm not common Siglent technical support. Also my answer may be obsolete because it have been long time after I ask this question from factory.

You have three choices.

1. Use external house reference (connected to 10MHz ref input).

2. Install High stability oscillator (example TCXO or OCXO)  to main board. There is place for it. I do not have detailed information for this. But long time ago I ask it from Siglent and answer was that it also need special FW (what can get from Siglent).


This 3. is my own thinking and not even discussed with Siglent engineers.

3. Modify main board. Take factory installed oscillator out (or cut only trace and leave it on its place) and install example OCXO in. Inject its output to same 10MHz line where was original oscillator output. (voltage etc specs you find using simple measurement on the running unit. 

All self made modifications delete warranty.

If I'm not distributor but I have my own Siglent for my own hobby or professional use. I will think this position 3. If I can not use external 10MHz reference due to what ever reasons. (example if it is used on the work travel or places where is not available 10MHz house standard line.)
Because, this mod also do not need special software and later possible FW upgrades are not problem in this case.

My opinion is that this mod (3.) is quite easy to do but I can not give details for this. (I have not anymore one "service and inspect" unit in my lab what I can use for experimentation.

Inside unit need be careful, and also use normal lab practice about ESD protection.

If installl OCXO it need also care how much it draw current when it start from cold until it stabilize and then, many times they need minutes to half hour to stabilize even first level but reach final stability much much later (retract and ageing curve).

Today good quality TCXO's may  be very good and may be even better than normal middle and even high grade OCXO until go to "State of art" level then OCXO show who is leader but TCXO's are going better and better so, who knows...

If look example Siglent SDG5000 it have far better internal reference inside. (here in forum you can find also tiny test about it)

It depends what are accuracy needs.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: AudioApp on June 05, 2014, 08:01:11 pm
I look also for a high stability oscillator for my SDG1025, the PCB is already made to accept a TCXO (at least on the mine).

I have asked few months ago to Siglent if an internal reference clock option (TCXO) can be purchased for the SDG1025, answer from Siglent Technical Support Engineer was:
"I am sorry but there is no TCXO option to sale for customers"

I have to find a TCXO compatible with the PCB and the way to switch it. For info, the actual 10MHz clock looks like this schematic:

Regards
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: levinite on June 18, 2014, 07:15:42 am
New member, have a few questions...

Thanks for your time.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: echen1024 on June 18, 2014, 06:46:46 pm
New member, have a few questions...
  • Is it true that Siglent has plans to build an authorized service center in the US?
  • If so when will it be completed?
  • If not, how does one from the US get their Siglent scope serviced?
  • How many firmware updates has Siglent provided for its SDS1102CML scope?
  • What in your opinion are the worst faults and/or best features of the SDS1102CML?

Thanks for your time.
I don't think that the hobbiest market or just Lecroy Waveaces are enough to warrant a full blown "service center." Once they start building more of LeCroy's products, then 10 people in a little Chinatown shack might be warranted.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: levinite on June 19, 2014, 05:57:51 am
Well, the first question was really meant for member, Siglent. But it is interesting since a Tequipment sales person respond to a similar question in an email I sent by stating that a US office is the the defining stages. Anyway, after reading many posts about the various brands from this site, I decided on a Hantek scope from Circuit Specialists which is serviced in the US. But in service warranty was definitely a deciding factor.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on June 23, 2014, 04:59:20 pm
Greetings!

To answer your questions:

1) Yes - We are opening our new Siglent North American headquarters in Solon, OH next month (July, 2014). It will include technical support and complete warranty repair services.
2) See #1
3) See #1
4) Yes. All known issues have been addressed in our latest firmware (5.01.02.22). You can download this at www.siglent.com (http://www.siglent.com)
5) I will let our Siglent customers weigh in on this question. Please feel free to contact us at sales@siglent.com.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on June 23, 2014, 06:06:29 pm
Greetings!

To answer your questions:

1) Yes - We are opening our new Siglent North American headquarters in Solon, OH next month (July, 2014). It will include technical support and complete warranty repair services.
2) See #1
3) See #1
4) Yes. All known issues have been addressed in our latest firmware (5.01.02.22). You can download this at www.siglent.com (http://www.siglent.com)
5) I will let our Siglent customers weigh in on this question. Please feel free to contact us at sales@siglent.com.

What is now right address for technical support.
Previously we get this information from Siglent.

Hello everyone,
            I'm sorry for replying late, we have set up a special branch to solve all the technical problems.
    If you have any problem, suggestion or find some bugs, please email to support@siglent.com.
    We will reply you in 24 hours. Thanks very much.
Tips:
     Support email address: support@siglent.com
     Sales email address:    sales@siglent.com
     Please sent the technical or product problems to support email and sales or price information problems to sales email,
     or it will take you more time to get a reply.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on June 24, 2014, 11:15:56 am
Siglent has direct technical support at our factory in Shenzhen, in our European office in Hamburg, and very soon here in Cleveland, OH. For the time being please just contact:

support@siglent.com

for email technical support issues. We have some other changes and improvements coming but for now we this will get you to one of our technical support engineers.

Thank you,
Steve
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Hp35 on June 25, 2014, 02:14:28 pm
Well, after much research I finally purchased an Siglent SDS1102CML from Tequipment.net.  So far I love the scope. Here are the things that swayed me from the Rigol 1102.  (Larger display, larger memory depth, Physical knobs for both channels, quieter fan)

I also considered the Hantek's and although the higher res display was a large draw, I didn't want to deal with the funny timebase  (2,4,8).

The only 2 annoyances I have found so far with the latest firmware is the fact that the probe compensation setting is reset to 1X when the Default setup key is pressed.  Also the scope always asks to choose the language on boot.

I hope these 2 issues are addressed in the next firmware revision.

Regards,

Steve
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on June 25, 2014, 09:26:35 pm
@ Hp35
Steve, if you refrain from using Default setup your 10 x input attenuation setting will remain.
Have a good look at the manual, the default setup is listed in full.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on June 26, 2014, 07:14:15 am
Well, after much research I finally purchased an Siglent SDS1102CML from Tequipment.net.  So far I love the scope. Here are the things that swayed me from the Rigol 1102.  (Larger display, larger memory depth, Physical knobs for both channels, quieter fan)

I also considered the Hantek's and although the higher res display was a large draw, I didn't want to deal with the funny timebase  (2,4,8).

The only 2 annoyances I have found so far with the latest firmware is the fact that the probe compensation setting is reset to 1X when the Default setup key is pressed.  Also the scope always asks to choose the language on boot.

I hope these 2 issues are addressed in the next firmware revision.

Regards,

Steve
the 2 issues you said are not problems. they are designing issues.
1.default setup 1X is to restore the factory settings. Do you want it at 10X?
2.the language section on boot is for the customers to choose the language easier if you want to recover the version that do not have this section, please update the older .CFG file.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on June 26, 2014, 08:09:42 am
Well, after much research I finally purchased an Siglent SDS1102CML from Tequipment.net.  So far I love the scope. Here are the things that swayed me from the Rigol 1102.  (Larger display, larger memory depth, Physical knobs for both channels, quieter fan)

I also considered the Hantek's and although the higher res display was a large draw, I didn't want to deal with the funny timebase  (2,4,8).

The only 2 annoyances I have found so far with the latest firmware is the fact that the probe compensation setting is reset to 1X when the Default setup key is pressed.  Also the scope always asks to choose the language on boot.

I hope these 2 issues are addressed in the next firmware revision.

Regards,

Steve
the 2 issues you said are not problems. they are designing issues.
1.default setup 1X is to restore the factory settings. Do you want it at 10X?
2.the language section on boot is for the customers to choose the language easier if you want to recover the version that do not have this section, please update the older .CFG file.

As Siglent local distributor and also professional with electronics and T&M equipments I will give my opinion what is based to long time experience.

1: I recommend 10X is default.  (note 1) I can give many arguments for this if need.
This is normal recommended setting. Peoples need understand that use 1x probe ONLY if it is nessessary. Normally always use 10x probe. (also because bandwidth but also for safety)
There is many oscilloscopes what as factory default option is also sold with only 10x probes.
Also this is, as well as I know, very common working practice in every lab.
In classroom every school boy and girl need also learn this lab practice in first lesson in scholl electronics lab room. Turn always probe to 10x as default always before and after use if you have probe where is this selection. I hope also today young not experienced teachers teach this.

All  know why there is so much 10x HP and 10x Tektronix second hand nice probes for sale around of eBay etc. This is because professionals "default probe" have been 10X  tens of years.  In long time ago normal package of example Tektronix analog scopes have 10X probes. (and never 1x 10x switchable probes) 


2: It is good that in first power up boot customer get automatic menu for language selection. If example language is "accidentally" chinese and western user who have not yet enough experience with this equipment do not easy find how to set language what he know. It can do it example until boot up counter is 10.

Now it is very frustrating if use more this unit and every start it ask language. Why it ask it in every startup. After weeks, after months.. many times per day if frequently use scope.

I recommend that it works so that when people get it from package it ask language and perhaps example 5-10 first times (due to fact that some shop may start scopes some times for check equipment is not DOA fault. Then after count it shuts off this automatic language menu with normal boot up.

If user want he get this back with using some "deep recovery" option in menu what resets all to exactly factory state, all memories, all user data, even selfcal data.

Wink:
Then also this solution may be clever with many reasons: add something what is example in  old well known Hewlett-Packard (Agilent) many equipments.

Boot up with one or two key pressed during power up boot. It recovers unit to deep factory default state.
It need do so that even if oscilloscope is crash down due to some fatal FW bug and it can not even boot after it (due to some corrupted stored data).

This power up with one or two key pressed drops it always to factory state resetting all, even selfcal data and every user memory and so on "and it drops to ground with his legs as cat". 
After this, also language selection may pop up, all what have been exactly as received from factory exept power up boot counter.


(Note 1: If oscilloscope have automatic probe factor detect then if input BNC is without connected probe, then it need set defaul 1X. This scope do not have this feature.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Hp35 on June 26, 2014, 11:56:47 am
I think you guys may be missing my point about the 1x/10x issue. It's probably true that 10x should be the default setting, however my request is actually just to remove probe compensation from the list of parameters that are reset when default setup is pressed.

In other words, if you set the probe compensation to 10x, it should remain at 10x even if default setup is pressed.   There are other settings that are not reset when 'default setup' is pressed such as screen saver or 'skin' type. Probe compensation should work the same way.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on June 26, 2014, 02:30:56 pm
I think you guys may be missing my point about the 1x/10x issue. It's probably true that 10x should be the default setting, however my request is actually just to remove probe compensation from the list of parameters that are reset when default setup is pressed.

In other words, if you set the probe compensation to 10x, it should remain at 10x even if default setup is pressed.   There are other settings that are not reset when 'default setup' is pressed such as screen saver or 'skin' type. Probe compensation should work the same way.

We know exactly what you mean.
Every DSO that I have had behaves in the same manner, and I would imagine the vast majority on the market also.
BTW I can't remember when I last used the Default button and I've been using DSO's for a good 10 years or more.
If you feel strongly about this start another thread with a poll for or against your idea and who never use Default, with discussion on which brands behave as you wish.
Thread doesn't need to be a slanging match, just a search for a majority view for manufacturers to take note of.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Wuerstchenhund on June 26, 2014, 04:53:51 pm
2: It is good that in first power up boot customer get automatic menu for language selection. If example language is "accidentally" chinese and western user who have not yet enough experience with this equipment do not easy find how to set language what he know. It can do it example until boot up counter is 10.

Now it is very frustrating if use more this unit and every start it ask language. Why it ask it in every startup. After weeks, after months.. many times per day if frequently use scope.

I recommend that it works so that when people get it from package it ask language and perhaps example 5-10 first times (due to fact that some shop may start scopes some times for check equipment is not DOA fault. Then after count it shuts off this automatic language menu with normal boot up.

Why not do it the way LeCroy does it on their XStream scopes? During initialization of the scope software there is a button in the upper right corner of the screen which cycles through all available languages (while the scope continues with initialization), and if you want to change the language just press it when your preferred language appears.

If you don't want to change the language then you just ignore it.

Simples.   :-+
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on June 26, 2014, 06:20:34 pm
2: It is good that in first power up boot customer get automatic menu for language selection. If example language is "accidentally" chinese and western user who have not yet enough experience with this equipment do not easy find how to set language what he know. It can do it example until boot up counter is 10.

Now it is very frustrating if use more this unit and every start it ask language. Why it ask it in every startup. After weeks, after months.. many times per day if frequently use scope.

I recommend that it works so that when people get it from package it ask language and perhaps example 5-10 first times (due to fact that some shop may start scopes some times for check equipment is not DOA fault. Then after count it shuts off this automatic language menu with normal boot up.

Why not do it the way LeCroy does it on their XStream scopes? During initialization of the scope software there is a button in the upper right corner of the screen which cycles through all available languages (while the scope continues with initialization), and if you want to change the language just press it when your preferred language appears.

If you don't want to change the language then you just ignore it.

Simples.   :-+

This IS good! All what need for this.
 :-+
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tzok on July 02, 2014, 05:14:12 pm
I've had some time and I started to experiment with my SDS-1022DL. I've tried to use Teledyne's WaveStudio instead of Siglent's EasyScopeX and... it works like a charm.

...and my other remarks:
P19 firmware has some strange modification to trigger status display which makes it completely unreadable on some time bases (cycling through ARMED, READY and TRIGD’).
Other issue or suggestion is to change the default behavior of time base zoom – currently it zooms to the last set zoomed timebase, not caring about currently set timebase (i.e. working with 10us/div and zoom to 2us/div, then exit zoom mode, change time base to 25ms/div, turn zoom on and... have completely useless 2us/div). I thought that it could be more convenient if zoomed time base would be always initially set to normal time base divided by 10 (zoom x10 like in analogue oscilloscopes).
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tzok on July 09, 2014, 09:16:24 pm
It seems that my SDS1022DL has died... it was working fine, connected to wave generator, and after changing frequency from 50kHz to 500kHz on the generator it started acting like this:
video@youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tETTDlU95GE#ws)
and after restart it changed into this:
(http://obrazki.elektroda.pl/9770329900_1404940282_thumb.jpg) (http://obrazki.elektroda.pl/9770329900_1404940282.png)
So no signal after trigger. When there is no trigger it is kind of working:
video@youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh6W-iQzwqI#ws)

Any idea what could have happened to it?
I've tried to do push Default Setup button, do SelfCal and flash other firmware (5.06.02.19 and 5.06.02.16) - nothing helps. As far as I can remember it did something similar once before (just after I've bought it, before any flashing), but after restarting it was ok (until now).
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: johned on August 02, 2014, 10:50:12 am
I am not sure if this is the best place to ask but I emailed Siglent 5 days ago and am still waiting for a reply.
I am trying to use EasySCOPE with my SDS1102CNL and Windows 8.1.
I have updated the firmware to the latest version : 5.01.02.13
I have installed NI VISA 5.12 and the latest EasySCOPE.
When I connect the scope to my PC I see the 1102 in my Device list as “USB Test and Measurement Device (IVI)” – see attached image.
The USB port on the 1102 is set to USBTMC mode.
When I do Add Device in EasySCOPE I get : “Have not find any device”.
If SigLent are here then please can you tell me how to connect my scope to Windows 8.1 ?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on August 02, 2014, 12:05:02 pm
I am not sure if this is the best place to ask but I emailed Siglent 5 days ago and am still waiting for a reply.
I am trying to use EasySCOPE with my SDS1102CNL and Windows 8.1.
I have updated the firmware to the latest version : 5.01.02.13
I have installed NI VISA 5.12 and the latest EasySCOPE.
When I connect the scope to my PC I see the 1102 in my Device list as “USB Test and Measurement Device (IVI)” – see attached image.
The USB port on the 1102 is set to USBTMC mode.
When I do Add Device in EasySCOPE I get : “Have not find any device”.
If SigLent are here then please can you tell me how to connect my scope to Windows 8.1 ?
In the Easyscope window select "Scope"
Then "Add Device"
Then select connection type.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: johned on August 03, 2014, 08:35:38 am
Hi Tautech,

Thank you very much for your reply.
As per my original message, this is what I am doing :
> When I do Add Device in EasySCOPE I get : “Have not find any device”.

All the best,
John
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on August 03, 2014, 08:48:50 am
johned
Just did a Google search for USB Test and Measurement Device (IVI)

Posted fix on member rf_loop's website:
http://siglent.freeforums.org/make-easyscopex-work-and-recognize-usbtmc-dso-t85.html (http://siglent.freeforums.org/make-easyscopex-work-and-recognize-usbtmc-dso-t85.html)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: johned on August 03, 2014, 04:52:31 pm
Hi Tautech,

I have done all of that.
NI MAX is reporting :
SDS00002140234
USB0::0xF4EC::0xEE3A::SDS00002140234::INSTR

This looks correct to me.
But EasySCOPE is still reporting : “Have not find any device”.

All the best,
John
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Macbeth on August 03, 2014, 06:33:19 pm
I've had a bit of a nightmare with installing USB drivers to use with the likes of Hantek/Siglent. This is on Windows 7.

The problem is Windows will automatically go and find drivers based on VID:PID over the internet, and decide that whatever it finds is a "newer" driver than the manufacturers actual latest supplied driver. I believe there must be many China manufacturers using the same VID:PID as each other for similar drivers.

The way around it is to delete (and permanently remove) all drivers associated with your instrument from the control panel/system. Then make sure you disconnect from the internet and install the manufacturer provided drivers. The ridiculous Windows automatic driver search will hence fail and you get the proper driver installed.

Also, make sure you set your device up with USB-TMC rather than USB-RAW if you intend to use NI-VISA stuff.

ETA: I have had to go so far as to use REGEDIT and search for VID/PIDs and delete the bastards left behind even after removing the device from control panel!  |O
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on August 03, 2014, 08:14:35 pm
Hi Tautech,

I have done all of that.
NI MAX is reporting :
SDS00002140234
USB0::0xF4EC::0xEE3A::SDS00002140234::INSTR

This looks correct to me.
But EasySCOPE is still reporting : “Have not find any device”.

All the best,
John
I will point Siglent support to your posts.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on August 04, 2014, 12:51:27 am
Hi Tautech,

I have done all of that.
NI MAX is reporting :
SDS00002140234
USB0::0xF4EC::0xEE3A::SDS00002140234::INSTR

This looks correct to me.
But EasySCOPE is still reporting : “Have not find any device”.

All the best,
John

Dear Sir,please confirm that you have download the latest EasyscopeX(P03R5) from http://www.siglent.com/en/server/download.aspx?nodecode=119004002003 (http://www.siglent.com/en/server/download.aspx?nodecode=119004002003)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: johned on August 04, 2014, 09:15:14 am
Hi Siglent support,

Thank you very much, that worked perfectly.  :)

I was using the latest version on your SDS 1000CNL page :
http://www.siglent.com/en/product/detail.aspx?id=100000004399111&nodecode=119008001 (http://www.siglent.com/en/product/detail.aspx?id=100000004399111&nodecode=119008001)
You might like to update the version on this page and all other product specific pages.

You might also like to contact Sameer Dhiman so that he can update his installation notes here :
http://siglent.freeforums.org/make-easyscopex-work-and-recognize-usbtmc-dso-t85.html (http://siglent.freeforums.org/make-easyscopex-work-and-recognize-usbtmc-dso-t85.html)
I am sure the new software will mean that Sameer's installation procedure is so much easier.

Best regards,
John
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: fluxcapacitor on August 06, 2014, 02:51:03 pm
I've had a bit of a nightmare with installing USB drivers to use with the likes of Hantek/Siglent. This is on Windows 7.

The problem is Windows will automatically go and find drivers based on VID:PID over the internet, and decide that whatever it finds is a "newer" driver than the manufacturers actual latest supplied driver. I believe there must be many China manufacturers using the same VID:PID as each other for similar drivers.

The way around it is to delete (and permanently remove) all drivers associated with your instrument from the control panel/system. Then make sure you disconnect from the internet and install the manufacturer provided drivers. The ridiculous Windows automatic driver search will hence fail and you get the proper driver installed.

Also, make sure you set your device up with USB-TMC rather than USB-RAW if you intend to use NI-VISA stuff.

ETA: I have had to go so far as to use REGEDIT and search for VID/PIDs and delete the bastards left behind even after removing the device from control panel!  |O

Next time you run into USB problems give USBDeview a go , it saves having to hack through the registry .

http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/usb_devices_view.html (http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/usb_devices_view.html)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: don on August 08, 2014, 08:08:30 pm
Hi Siglent Support,

I have an SDS 2074 and installed the latest firmware.  I have a question regarding roll mode.  Will zoom function be enabled in future firmware releases?   Today it pops up a message "Function isn't useable"

I thought it was possible to adjust the scale and effectively zoom in this way, but the waveform is not zoomed in on the center of the screen.  So if you have an event you want to zoom in on, you can move horizontal position to find it.  But once you adjust the scale, the event disappears and you are effectively zooming in on a different area. So this is not an effective equivalent of zoom function.

On a side note, I believe others in the forum were interested in knowing if peak detect in roll mode was supported, and it appears to be supported in latest firmware (FYI to forum members).

Thanks,
Don
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on August 08, 2014, 08:39:40 pm
Hi Don
Latest I am aware of is 1.1.1.35.1
My 2304 will zoom from a 50/S div timebase.

Press Default to clear all previous settings.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: don on August 08, 2014, 09:13:58 pm
Hi,

I have the same firmware.  Here is the sequence from default state:

Press Default button
Press Horizontal button
Select Roll mode from menu button
Press stop button
Press zoom button "Function isn't useable" is displayed.

Does this work on your scope?

Also I noticed zoom does not work when decode is enabled.

Thanks,
Don
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: don on August 08, 2014, 09:54:41 pm
Hi,

For SDS2074 -- I noticed that I2C decode only works properly when memory is 1.4Mpt or less per channel.  You can select 7M or 14M, but if you do, the decode does not work.  You can see it's trying to decode but messages are not showing correctly.  This does not seem dependent on the sample rate or time base.  System also locked up a couple times but hitting default restored.  By lock up, I saw behavior such as not being able to use Single acquisition if decode was selected. 

As mentioned in previous post, zoom does not work in decode. However, you can adjust the scale after capture and that does work as expected unlike in Roll mode.

Thanks,
Don
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on August 08, 2014, 10:06:00 pm
Hi,

I have the same firmware.  Here is the sequence from default state:

Press Default button
Press Horizontal button
Select Roll mode from menu button
Press stop button
Press zoom button "Function isn't useable" is displayed.

Does this work on your scope?

Also I noticed zoom does not work when decode is enabled.

Thanks,
Don
I get the same result.
I have not used Roll mode, but will experiment with it and forward any problems to Siglent
For Decode, I Run/Stop and then use timebase and H Position to see areas of interest as you have mentioned.
Interesting comments re Decode and Mem depth. Worthy of more research.

Consider moving this discussion to the SDS2000 thread
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: don on August 08, 2014, 10:37:22 pm
Also, looks like I spoke to soon on being able to change the timebase / H position with decoding.  The decoded messages get out of sync with signaling when you change the timebase.  So you can't really scroll to see signaling and messages over one another.  There are combinations of memory and time base where you can, but it's hard to figure out how it works.  It think zoom is the ticket since it does not change the sample rate.    Hopefully zoom gets enabled for roll mode and decode because it defeats the purpose of large memory if you are confined to screen view.

Some member asked if you can scroll through list view, select a message and have it take  you to the waveform.  From my testing this does not seem possible in current firmware.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on August 08, 2014, 10:49:34 pm
Quote
Hopefully zoom gets enabled for roll mode and decode because it defeats the purpose of large memory if you are confined to screen view.
Use a slow TB setting, then Run/Stop, then adjust TB and H Pos to see long Decodes.
Close examination of 1/2 second Decodes quite possible this way.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: don on August 08, 2014, 10:54:38 pm
For example, I'm at 1.4Mpts and 20MSa/s (5ms/div).  It decodes data fine and I see 12 messages but too small to read.  As soon as I change the time base to zoom in, the decoded messages go off screen but the signaling of all 12 packets stays on screen.  Further scrolling of horizontal or changing time base does not help bring back decoded messages.  Unless I change timebase back to 20MSa/s.  It's very odd. 
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on August 08, 2014, 11:28:38 pm
For example, I'm at 1.4Mpts and 20MSa/s (5ms/div).  It decodes data fine and I see 12 messages but too small to read.  As soon as I change the time base to zoom in, the decoded messages go off screen but the signaling of all 12 packets stays on screen.  Further scrolling of horizontal or changing time base does not help bring back decoded messages.  Unless I change timebase back to 20MSa/s.  It's very odd.
When I have some time I will investigate more.
What Protocol are you decoding?
Please start with reply in this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent's-new-product-msosds2000-series/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent's-new-product-msosds2000-series/)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Macbeth on August 12, 2014, 10:13:45 pm
Next time you run into USB problems give USBDeview a go , it saves having to hack through the registry .
http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/usb_devices_view.html (http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/usb_devices_view.html)
Thank you! Just installed it now and will no doubt be forced to make use of it soon! :-DD
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: BER546 on August 14, 2014, 06:29:57 am
Found this at http://www.sainsmart.com/blog/win/ (http://www.sainsmart.com/blog/win/)
It is nice to see your guys giving back
Great job!
(http://www.sainsmart.com/zen/albums/temp/web/SainSmart/BLOG/win/2014-8-1_02.gif)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog -- SDG1025 External Clock Bug
Post by: kwass on August 20, 2014, 02:57:39 am
I have an SDG1025 and like to use a high accuracy external clock with it.  Setting the CLK Source to external works fine until you power off the unit.  When you power it back on the CLK Source will still say "external" but in fact it will be using the internal source until you toggle it to internal then back to external.  This is very disturbing.

In addition the frequency counter function seems to always use the internal clock regardless of the CLK source setting.  I see no reason for this limitation.

Firmware version is: 1.01.01.31R1, Harware: 02-00-00-22-26

Are there any plans to fix these issues in the next firmware release?

Thanks,
Katie


Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nctnico on August 20, 2014, 10:14:36 am
I think there are similar issues with other settings.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog -- SDG1025 External Clock Bug
Post by: Siglent on October 10, 2014, 03:16:59 am
I have an SDG1025 and like to use a high accuracy external clock with it.  Setting the CLK Source to external works fine until you power off the unit.  When you power it back on the CLK Source will still say "external" but in fact it will be using the internal source until you toggle it to internal then back to external.  This is very disturbing.

In addition the frequency counter function seems to always use the internal clock regardless of the CLK source setting.  I see no reason for this limitation.

Firmware version is: 1.01.01.31R1, Harware: 02-00-00-22-26

Are there any plans to fix these issues in the next firmware release?

Thanks,
Katie
Dear Katie,
the first problem about CLK setting, I think this is because the default setup does not include the CLK source setting. I will let the R&D department know that.
the second issue about the counter CLK, this is not a problem, cause the counter always use the inner CLK to count, not every user have a external CLK. Do you want us to add this option to SDG1000 series?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog -- SDG1025 External Clock Bug
Post by: kwass on October 10, 2014, 04:07:48 am
I have an SDG1025 and like to use a high accuracy external clock with it.  Setting the CLK Source to external works fine until you power off the unit.  When you power it back on the CLK Source will still say "external" but in fact it will be using the internal source until you toggle it to internal then back to external.  This is very disturbing.

In addition the frequency counter function seems to always use the internal clock regardless of the CLK source setting.  I see no reason for this limitation.

Firmware version is: 1.01.01.31R1, Harware: 02-00-00-22-26

Are there any plans to fix these issues in the next firmware release?

Thanks,
Katie
Dear Katie,
the first problem about CLK setting, I think this is because the default setup does not include the CLK source setting. I will let the R&D department know that.
the second issue about the counter CLK, this is not a problem, cause the counter always use the inner CLK to count, not every user have a external CLK. Do you want us to add this option to SDG1000 series?

This is less of an issue to me personally than having the CLK source setting remembered.  However, I think it would make the counter more useful, to have the option of using an accurate clock. So yes, I think you should add that option -- or simply use the same CLK source setting that the generator does.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on October 10, 2014, 09:56:07 am
the new firmware of SDG1000 series will be released soon which solved the first problem. we will upload it to our new website at that time.
the second problem is that while you set the CLK source to external , the frequency counter will choose external too. so we will not correct it.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on October 29, 2014, 04:24:10 pm
Hello, everyone.

I just wanted to let you know that SIGLENT will have a booth at the Electronica Show in Munich, November 11-14.
http://www.electronica.de/ (http://www.electronica.de/)
If you have ever been to Electronica then you know just how big this show is!

SIGLENT Technologies' booth number is A1-561.

We will have some brand new products there on display and I am very much looking forward to the show. Please stop by to say hello and if you mention you saw this on eevBlog and you will receive a free TWO-HANDED hand shake.

Look forward to seeing many of you!
Steve


Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Warhawk on October 29, 2014, 09:20:11 pm
Hello, everyone.

I just wanted to let you know that SIGLENT will have a booth at the Electronica Show in Munich, November 11-14.
http://www.electronica.de/ (http://www.electronica.de/)
If you have ever been to Electronica then you know just how big this show is!

SIGLENT Technologies' booth number is A1-561.

We will have some brand new products there on display and I am very much looking forward to the show. Please stop by to say hello and if you mention you saw this on eevBlog and you will receive a free TWO-HANDED hand shake.

Look forward to seeing many of you!
Steve

I will stop by, see you there Sigilent !
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: MrsR on October 29, 2014, 09:52:32 pm
Quote
Any comments will be highly appreciated.


    I want to ask you something about the Siglent windows drivers... I have a Siglent SDG1020 AWG and a Siglent SDS1072CML oscilloscope, both with the same problem... The driver on the CD has a different hardware ID than the actual hardware ID of the equipment... And of course, because of this, Windows won't install those drivers... And even if I change the hardare IDs in the .inf file, the software won't see the equipment...

    The scope and AWG works fine with the NI VISA drivers... but still the same problem... The Siglent software doesn't see anything connected on the USB...

The operating system of your computer is win7 64bit?
You may need install the version  5.1.2 of NIVISA.
It's the link: http://joule.ni.com/nidu/cds/view/p/id/2914/lang/en (http://joule.ni.com/nidu/cds/view/p/id/2914/lang/en)

It's good to see that SIGLENT is supplying both the 32bit and 64bit drivers.
Thanks SIGLENT
Rachael :-+
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Rene on November 03, 2014, 11:59:29 pm
Hi,

I was getting ready to buy a Siglent SDG1025 but after doing a little bit of research I got the impression that as long as the equipment works fine you are good but if it ever fails it will be a nightmare to get guaranty support.

Is this true? Anybody has any experience getting guaranty support from Siglent?

Sorry, I know is a stupid question but at $350, I would really like to have the peace of mind that if something happened to the equipment it can be repaired with minimum hassle.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nctnico on November 04, 2014, 12:11:06 am
What are the waranty regulations in your country? If you are concerned with waranty I suggest to buy from a local dealer.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Rene on November 04, 2014, 12:55:11 am
I suggest to buy from a local dealer.

The problem is that I have no idea who the authorized distributors are. Their website (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/ (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/)) has zero info regarding where to buy (unless I totally missed something).

But even if I buy from a local dealer, once the local dealer warranty expires (most likely 30 days) I am on my own and I would have to contact Siglent directly and that is were it starts to get scary from what I can see.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on November 04, 2014, 01:14:12 pm
Before this past summer we did not have an office in North America so any warranty repairs here had to be sent back to the factory. That is no longer the case since we do have a North American headquarters in Cleveland, Ohio and we can handle any warranty repairs here in this office.

We are currently working on a North American website that will list all of our distributors and local reps here. If you are in the USA or Mexico you might try any one of our distributors:

Saelig
TEquipment
Electronix Express
Emtesco
Circuit Specialists

In Canada:
RCC Electronics
dipmicro

If there is anything else we can help you with please contact us at
info@siglent.com

Thank you.
Steve
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: anubis801 on November 04, 2014, 04:44:17 pm
I installed a TCXO on my SDG1025 and I posted a video on youtube.
SDG1025 TCXO Option tutorial. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxCDfNCLj08#ws)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Rene on November 04, 2014, 06:24:47 pm
Thanks Steve,

Its great news to hear that you guys finally have a presence in North America. Quick question, is www.amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com) an authorized reseller of Siglent equipment?

I had plans on purchasing the equipment from there (http://www.amazon.com/Siglent-SDG1025-Function-Arbitrary-Generator/dp/B00GQNNVH4 (http://www.amazon.com/Siglent-SDG1025-Function-Arbitrary-Generator/dp/B00GQNNVH4)).

If I was to buy from there, would you guys honor the guaranty?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Macbeth on November 04, 2014, 06:38:46 pm
I installed a TCXO on my SDG1025 and I posted a video on youtube.
SDG1025 TCXO Option tutorial. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxCDfNCLj08#ws)
Nice first post. I didn't know the TCXO was an option on my SDG1025, I was considering an external 10MHz source instead.

I'm not sure I would go through with all that hot air, soldering iron, and heated desolder sucker stuff myself, but if you have the equipment why not play it safe, eh?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on November 04, 2014, 06:53:25 pm
Thanks Steve,

Its great news to hear that you guys finally have a presence in North America. Quick question, is www.amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com) an authorized reseller of Siglent equipment?

I had plans on purchasing the equipment from there (http://www.amazon.com/Siglent-SDG1025-Function-Arbitrary-Generator/dp/B00GQNNVH4 (http://www.amazon.com/Siglent-SDG1025-Function-Arbitrary-Generator/dp/B00GQNNVH4)).

If I was to buy from there, would you guys honor the guaranty?

Thanks.


Hi Rene,

You bet! Amazon is an authorized Siglent distributor.
We can do any warranty repairs here in Cleveland on Siglent equipment purchased on Amazon within North America.

Thank you.
Steve
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: kwass on November 05, 2014, 04:20:29 am
I installed a TCXO on my SDG1025 and I posted a video on youtube.

Nice work,  I'll have to give this a try.  Is this the TCXO you used:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/221589387690?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.com/itm/221589387690?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT) ?

(Picture is wrong, but manufacturer and frequency seems to be the same.)

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Warhawk on November 05, 2014, 10:42:18 am
Hi Sigilent,
I would like to ask you if SDG800 generator series has truly USB host for a USB stick ?

On your webpage USB connector has just a cover although description says that it is present.

http://www.siglent.com/ENs/pdxx.aspx?id=71&T=2&tid=16 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/pdxx.aspx?id=71&T=2&tid=16)

Will you have these generators at Electronica fair in Munchen ?

Thanks !
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on November 05, 2014, 01:35:41 pm
Hi Sigilent,
I would like to ask you if SDG800 generator series has truly USB host for a USB stick ?

On your webpage USB connector has just a cover although description says that it is present.

http://www.siglent.com/ENs/pdxx.aspx?id=71&T=2&tid=16 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/pdxx.aspx?id=71&T=2&tid=16)

Will you have these generators at Electronica fair in Munchen ?

Thanks !

Good morning.
Yes, the SDG800 family of function generators do have USB Device & Host interfaces as standard. You can download a data sheet on our website if you wish.

I am not certain what all our factory guys will be bringing to Electronica next week. I wouldn't be surprised if we have a SDG800 there. If you are at the show please come by and say hello!
Steve
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Warhawk on November 05, 2014, 02:48:15 pm
Hi Sigilent,
I would like to ask you if SDG800 generator series has truly USB host for a USB stick ?

On your webpage USB connector has just a cover although description says that it is present.

http://www.siglent.com/ENs/pdxx.aspx?id=71&T=2&tid=16 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/pdxx.aspx?id=71&T=2&tid=16)

Will you have these generators at Electronica fair in Munchen ?

Thanks !

Good morning.
Yes, the SDG800 family of function generators do have USB Device & Host interfaces as standard. You can download a data sheet on our website if you wish.

I am not certain what all our factory guys will be bringing to Electronica next week. I wouldn't be surprised if we have a SDG800 there. If you are at the show please come by and say hello!
Steve

Thanks for the reply Steve. Thus it means that SDG1000 series also have USB host. I am thinking about buying your AWG for hobby use so It would be very nice to see it in advance. Yes, I've already promised to stop by and say hello.  8)
Jiri
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tequipment on November 06, 2014, 05:32:23 pm
Amazon dosent have anyone to help with issues.  You should try a company that supports its customers.

I guess I am partial!
Evan
TEquipment.NET
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Rigby on November 07, 2014, 02:07:44 pm
Amazon dosent have anyone to help with issues.  You should try a company that supports its customers.

Yeah, that's not my experience with Amazon at all.  I've had Amazon refund or re-ship orders at the drop of a hat, at no cost to me.

However, I have purchased from you and I was not disappointed.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nixxon on November 12, 2014, 03:18:11 pm
I look also for a high stability oscillator for my SDG1025, the PCB is already made to accept a TCXO (at least on the mine).

I have asked few months ago to Siglent if an internal reference clock option (TCXO) can be purchased for the SDG1025, answer from Siglent Technical Support Engineer was:
"I am sorry but there is no TCXO option to sale for customers"

I have to find a TCXO compatible with the PCB and the way to switch it. For info, the actual 10MHz clock looks like this schematic:

Regards

I installed a TCXO on my SDG1025 and I posted a video on youtube.
SDG1025 TCXO Option tutorial. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxCDfNCLj08#ws)
Is this TCXO hack real? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxCDfNCLj08 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxCDfNCLj08)

He uses a 25 MHz TCXO. Isn't it supposed to be 10MHz? Doesn't seem to be any need for FW upgrade either...
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Macbeth on November 12, 2014, 05:52:14 pm
Well the original X1 crystal is clearly 25MHz too, so it makes sense to replace it with a 25MHz TXCO. He also has an SDG1025, not an SDG1010. So I really don't understand your suspicion?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Rene on November 12, 2014, 06:41:45 pm
Amazon dosent have anyone to help with issues.  You should try a company that supports its customers.

I purchased from Amazon because I know that if I am not satisfied with the product for any reason (even if it’s because I don't think that the signal generators goes well with my furniture) I can return it and get my money back (no restocking free or any other penalty fees). I also have at least 30 days to return the product (more than 60 days if you purchase during the holidays).

You guys have only 7 days returns and it looks like you may charge a restocking fee. If I knew exactly what I was getting and I was sure that I was not going to return the product I would absolutely buy from you guys since I am not too fond of Amazons. Else, the risk is too high.

Thanks.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nixxon on November 12, 2014, 10:03:32 pm
Well the original X1 crystal is clearly 25MHz too, so it makes sense to replace it with a 25MHz TXCO. He also has an SDG1025, not an SDG1010. So I really don't understand your suspicion?

I guess I just didn't want to be fooled. It shows up that the single poster with the TCXO SDG1025 mod is responsive on YouTube. No problem. My SDG1020 (btw) has the same standard (25MHz) oscillator as did the SDG1025 in the video on YouTube.

So, to cool us all down, here is an interesting Sept. 5 2014 video made by Aaron Parks: "Siglent SDG1025 External Reference"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru15yRSeY5Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru15yRSeY5Q)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog -- SDG1025 External Clock Bug
Post by: Rene on November 13, 2014, 05:17:36 pm
we have update the SDG1000 series firmware 1.01.01.36.

Your attached file (SDG1000-V100R001B01D01P36.zip) is not digitally signed. There is no excuse for not having all files digitally signed by the authoring company (in this case Siglent). In fact, is a little unnerving and somewhat embarrassing that a *technology* company does not realize the potential importance of digitally signing the files they distribute.

I suggest you guys change your ways and start digitally signing all files you distribute. If we were living in the year 1970 I would be ok with distributing unsigned files, but definitely not in 2014.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog -- SDG1025 External Clock Bug
Post by: f1rmb on November 13, 2014, 05:23:12 pm
we have update the SDG1000 series firmware 1.01.01.36.

Your attached file (SDG1000-V100R001B01D01P36.zip) is not digitally signed. There is no excuse for not having all files digitally signed by the authoring company (in this case Siglent). In fact, is a little unnerving and somewhat embarrassing that a *technology* company does not realize the potential importance of digitally signing the files they distribute.

I suggest you guys change your ways and start digitally signing all files you distribute. If we were living in the year 1970 I would be ok with distributing unsigned files, but definitely not in 2014.

Thanks.

I suggest you to take your pills. Had a bad day ?!

Thanks.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog -- SDG1025 External Clock Bug
Post by: Macbeth on November 13, 2014, 05:37:41 pm
I have an SDG1025 and like to use a high accuracy external clock with it.  Setting the CLK Source to external works fine until you power off the unit.  When you power it back on the CLK Source will still say "external" but in fact it will be using the internal source until you toggle it to internal then back to external.  This is very disturbing.

In addition the frequency counter function seems to always use the internal clock regardless of the CLK source setting.  I see no reason for this limitation.

Firmware version is: 1.01.01.31R1, Harware: 02-00-00-22-26

Are there any plans to fix these issues in the next firmware release?

Thanks,
Katie

Dear katie,
we have update the SDG1000 series firmware 1.01.01.36. please find it here http://www.siglent.com/ENs/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=970&tid=15 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=970&tid=15)
SDG1000 P36 version resolves the following issues:
1. Add the channel coupling function
2. Add the variable impedance function
3. resolve some bugs.

Thanks, just updated from 31 to 36. Worked like a charm! Good to see a firm supporting its products rather than leaving them as abandonware  :-+
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog -- SDG1025 External Clock Bug
Post by: kwass on November 13, 2014, 07:45:18 pm
........

Are there any plans to fix these issues in the next firmware release?

Thanks,
Katie

Dear katie,
we have update the SDG1000 series firmware 1.01.01.36. please find it here http://www.siglent.com/ENs/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=970&tid=15 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=970&tid=15)
SDG1000 P36 version resolves the following issues:
1. Add the channel coupling function
2. Add the variable impedance function
3. resolve some bugs.

Thanks, just updated from 31 to 36. Worked like a charm! Good to see a firm supporting its products rather than leaving them as abandonware  :-+

I agree completely.  I just updated to version 36 and indeed the bug I complained about -- not remembering the external clock setting -- is fixed!  I haven't tested the new features yet but they are a welcome addition.

Thank you very much!
-Katie
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog -- SDG1025 External Clock Bug
Post by: tautech on November 13, 2014, 08:41:14 pm
we have update the SDG1000 series firmware 1.01.01.36.

Your attached file (SDG1000-V100R001B01D01P36.zip) is not digitally signed. There is no excuse for not having all files digitally signed by the authoring company (in this case Siglent). In fact, is a little unnerving and somewhat embarrassing that a *technology* company does not realize the potential importance of digitally signing the files they distribute.

I suggest you guys change your ways and start digitally signing all files you distribute. If we were living in the year 1970 I would be ok with distributing unsigned files, but definitely not in 2014.

Thanks.
Valid point.
But if you feel so strongly on this matter I suggest you start a new thread on this in the forum and see just how widespread this "problem" is.
I don't beleive it should be a case of "naming and shaming", but it would be interesting to see how widespread it is in the "gear" that interests the forum members.
IME it is not uncommon with all manner of products.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog -- SDG1025 External Clock Bug
Post by: nctnico on November 13, 2014, 08:51:50 pm
we have update the SDG1000 series firmware 1.01.01.36.
Your attached file (SDG1000-V100R001B01D01P36.zip) is not digitally signed. There is no excuse for not having all files digitally signed by the authoring company (in this case Siglent).
I wouldn't know how to sign a ZIP file in way that couldn't be counterfeited. When in doubt I make sure I download it from the manufacturer's website.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: commongrounder on November 16, 2014, 08:07:32 pm
I have noted this in a couple of other Siglent SDG1000 threads.  The Sweep function is not working properly after upgrading to .36.  At least on my SDG1005, the sweep is stuck on a repeating up-down pattern with linear only.  Changing the sweep type to log and toggling the direction have no effect on the sweep.  I've tried several different frequencies and sweep times, with no change.  I hope Siglent can make a quick interim fix, because the sweep function is almost useless for my purposes.  If someone else who has upgraded could confirm this issue, that would be excellent.
The new channel coupling function works great!
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Macbeth on November 16, 2014, 08:55:22 pm
I have noted this in a couple of other Siglent SDG1000 threads.  The Sweep function is not working properly after upgrading to .36.  At least on my SDG1005, the sweep is stuck on a repeating up-down pattern with linear only.  Changing the sweep type to log and toggling the direction have no effect on the sweep.  I've tried several different frequencies and sweep times, with no change.  I hope Siglent can make a quick interim fix, because the sweep function is almost useless for my purposes.  If someone else who has upgraded could confirm this issue, that would be excellent.
The new channel coupling function works great!
What is this channel coupling function you speak of? The problem with Siglents updates are they have no changelogs whatsoever, so I don't have a clue and just assume I have the latest and so it must be the best  :-//
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nctnico on November 16, 2014, 09:21:48 pm
I updated my SDG1010 last night and took a look at the channel coupling: it allows to set a frequency and phase difference between the two channels.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: commongrounder on November 16, 2014, 10:03:50 pm
When it is turned on, one or the other of the channels can be set as a master, and the other will follow the master settings.  You can set frequency and phase offsets that will track along with changes you make to the master settings.  It all appears to work as expected.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on November 17, 2014, 07:06:03 pm
Hello, everyone.

I just wanted to let you know that we now have a Siglent Technologies website for North America:

www.SiglentAmerica.com

It is hosted in the USA and maintained here. We just received the website late last week so we will be doing some editing to clean up the grammar and typos over the coming weeks. At least in North America it should be faster than the corporate website (www.Siglent.com (http://www.Siglent.com)) and we will do our best to keep it up to date, interesting, and informative.
As a note, the latest SDS2000 oscilloscope firmware should be listed there. It was released in October.

We want to make this website useful so if you have any suggestions, we'd love to hear from you at
info@siglent.com

We appreciate your support.
Thank you!
Steve

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nctnico on November 17, 2014, 08:29:08 pm
So far no SDS2000 firmware...
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on November 17, 2014, 08:40:23 pm
So far no SDS2000 firmware...


Please see this page:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-gjjrj.aspx?id=25&tid=1&T=2 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-gjjrj.aspx?id=25&tid=1&T=2)

My understanding is that this is the latest version.
If you still have any problems please contact Scott at
Scott.Rocco@Siglent.com

Steve
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nctnico on November 17, 2014, 08:48:43 pm
The version on the website is the same version which is on my SDS2204 right now and has been there since I bought it a couple of months ago. There where rumors that a new firmware version would be released by the end of last month but given the number of problems and missing features I suspect it turned out to be a lot more work than anticipated. It's a pity because the unfinished state the current firmware is in is doing Siglent not much good. When the firmware is finished I think Siglent could sell much more (especially after Dave does a proper review).
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on November 18, 2014, 07:52:46 am
So far no SDS2000 firmware...
I too have been quietly bugging Siglent for the anticipated new SDS2000 Firmware.

The version on the website is the same version which is on my SDS2204 right now and has been there since I bought it a couple of months ago. There where rumors that a new firmware version would be released by the end of last month but given the number of problems and missing features I suspect it turned out to be a lot more work than anticipated. It's a pity because the unfinished state the current firmware is in is doing Siglent not much good. When the firmware is finished I think Siglent could sell much more (especially after Dave does a proper review).
Yes, we were expecting it last month....I was told before November, but with Siglent making a presence at the Munich show I expect they had other pressing matters to attend to.
New products I believe.

Latest reply today is....soon.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on November 19, 2014, 01:50:36 pm
My apologies. Just got the word last night that the new FW revision is due out next week - the week of November 23. My earlier information was incorrect.
The new firmware will address the bugs but I don't have a list of those at this point. Other improvements are coming as well.

Thanks to all!
Steve
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: commongrounder on November 19, 2014, 04:12:49 pm
Concerning the SDG1000 series firmware .36 sweep problem.  I did a bit more analysis and have found that, rather than a linear or log ramp sweep, the user set frequency range is being modulated by a sine wave with a period equal to the sweep time.  We really need to have the lin/log ramps back, at least.  It would be great to have up-down sweeps as an option, but using an alternate lin/log ramp rather than sinusoidal frequency modulation. 
I am sending this to Siglent as well, with the hope that they can implement a quick fix.  I would rather have the partially functional sweep setup used in the previous version .31 firmware, than this, which is pretty much un-useable. :-\
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog -- SDG1025 External Clock Bug
Post by: Rene on November 19, 2014, 05:42:36 pm
When in doubt I make sure I download it from the manufacturer's website.

Even if you download directly from the manufacture's site there is still no way to verify the integrity of the file unless it has been digitally signed. Digitally signing files is the norm and not the exception nowadays. It is cheap, easy and the right thing to do.

Anyway, Siglent knows about thsi issue now so if they want to do something about it then great, else, it is what it is.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on November 20, 2014, 01:55:39 am
Concerning the SDG1000 series firmware .36 sweep problem.  I did a bit more analysis and have found that, rather than a linear or log ramp sweep, the user set frequency range is being modulated by a sine wave with a period equal to the sweep time.  We really need to have the lin/log ramps back, at least.  It would be great to have up-down sweeps as an option, but using an alternate lin/log ramp rather than sinusoidal frequency modulation. 
I am sending this to Siglent as well, with the hope that they can implement a quick fix.  I would rather have the partially functional sweep setup used in the previous version .31 firmware, than this, which is pretty much un-useable. :-\
I can not duplicate your problem, so please describe it clearly.  it is better to post a screen shot to me jade.wan@siglent.com or support@siglent.com

Jade Wan
Technical Support Engineer
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nctnico on November 20, 2014, 10:00:45 am
The problem is not hard to duplicate. In version 36 the sweep function simply does not work properly in any way. For starters the sweep goes up AND down instead of up OR down. The up and down setting has no effect.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on November 20, 2014, 12:26:06 pm
Problem is really not hard to duplicate.
Whole all sweep functions are now totally wrong in this version 36.
No LOG, no LIN, no selectable up or down sweep. All is now destroyed what was ok in previous version.

It is good to know that if you have accidentally updated to version 36 you can downgrade back to version 31.

How it need work (just ONE example for ONE thing):
Start freg f1  (example 100kHz)
Stop freq f2  (example 200kHz)
Sweep up
Sweep linear
Sweep time t sweep (example 10s)
After these settings output is steady (f1) (example 100kHz)
Then start sweep  example start manually pushing "trig"
linearly (linear freq change related to time) it start rising frequency until f2 and without output freq sweep immediately return to f1 and stop in this case and waiting new trig.
-----
FW version P36

Start freg f1  (example 100kHz)
Stop freq f2  (example 200kHz)
Sweep up
Sweep linear
Sweep time t sweep (example 10s)
After these settings output is steady half way between f1 and f2 (in this case 150kHz)  WRONG!
Then start sweep  example start manually pushing "trig"
it start rising frequency using undefined mathematical function until f2 and then it turns back (reducing frequency) until it reach f1 and then it turn and start rising frequency until  half way between f1 and f2 (in this case 150kHz)  TOTALLY WRONG.  I do not this time know if this sweep is linear or what hell function but in every case it is totally wrong.

If I change now for sweep down.  It do not anything. Still this stupid half way - then up - then down and then up until back in half way between f1 and f2.

LOG sweep. (and up and down) also same.




LOG up need work as in version 31 (exept that LOG  calculation need repair)
LOG down need work as in version 31 (exept that LOG  calcualtion need repair)
LIN up need work as version 31
LIN down need work as version 31


IF Siglent want add other kind of sweep  function...   set center freq and then how much want linearly or log scan out from center freq single shot or continuously wobbling around center......yes this function is welcome for example pass band IF filter adjustments in radio equipments etc   but I think it is better first repair function what have never worked right after launch.

And this is LOGaritmic sweep up or down starting from user defined start frequency to user defined end frequency. .

In version 31 (and just this original ranting about it) was that your math inside FW for log sweep is wrong.  In version 31 it works but only inside one decade difference between start and stop freq.
In version 31 it works example if I select start 10Hz and stop 100Hz (this is one decade - Siglent) but if I want set start example from 10 Hz to 10000Hz or example  from 27Hz to 53768Hz... it do not normal LOG function sweep. I hope Siglent engineers know what is logaritm.

I'm really surprised that before launch and after "repair" this function no one have tested it. Please take even 3 kids from streed and promise ice cream if they test it and tell if it works ok or wrong.

If it is still difficult.

Please go to shop and buy one function gnerator where is log sweep...  and do exercises how it works and then run SDG1000 and look agen if think it is difficult to define and regognize IF there is problem or IF there is not problem.

After this update version 36  whole sweep function is total junk.

Please remove this version 36 from share and set information that peoples who have updated can downgrade back to version 31R1



Btw, what is nice in new FW is that now can lock channels freq. It can set so that CH1  or CH2 is master and other channel follow frequency. Also there can set offset between channels. (but I feel that this offset setting is somehow weird...  I feel better if offset is for slave channel, not for master channel. Master is master and it have its freg. If there is offset then slave have this offset related to master... positive or negative offset. But Siglent think somehow opposite. There is offset, it can be only positive and it is added to master. (display of course show right but still I feel it is weird logic but perhaps other people feel is just ok... I like RPN but also I lake that master is reference and if there is offset it set for slave.)




Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Mark_O on November 20, 2014, 01:06:34 pm
Problem is really not hard to duplicate.
Whole all sweep functions are now totally wrong in this version 36.
No LOG, no LIN, no selectable up or down sweep. All is now destroyed what was ok in previous version.

...

I'm really surprised that before launch and after "repair" this function no one have tested it. Please take even 3 kids from street and promise ice cream if they test it and tell if it works ok or wrong.

 :-DD   :-+  This is a strange failure of the quality assurance process.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: commongrounder on November 20, 2014, 02:15:13 pm
Thank you rf-loop for explaining this problem in the great detail that appears to be needed.  I plotted the frequency over time of this strange sweep and it seems to be sinusoidal in nature.  My dream for this device is they would allow the user to select the sweep type from the built-in arbitrary waveform library, including imported ones, so custom sweeps could be created.  I wonder if the sweep waveform they use is in the same 14-bit 16k-point format as other set/arbitrary waveform files.  :-//
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on November 21, 2014, 03:08:59 am
Thank you rf-loop for explaining this problem in the great detail that appears to be needed.  I plotted the frequency over time of this strange sweep and it seems to be sinusoidal in nature.  My dream for this device is they would allow the user to select the sweep type from the built-in arbitrary waveform library, including imported ones, so custom sweeps could be created.  I wonder if the sweep waveform they use is in the same 14-bit 16k-point format as other set/arbitrary waveform files.  :-//
Just confirmed that the sweep problem exist in P36(The sweep code is written in the Remarks ). we feel very sorry.
We will fix it as soon as possible and release a new firmware p37.
We suggest the customer not to update the version P36,
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on November 21, 2014, 07:49:09 am
Good. 
Please gíve strong feedback to working group who make FW fix but leave all untested. Customers are not pre testers.

Then this case, please help peoples with problems. It is only way to build better reputation. And it is extremely important for test eqquipment Company today:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/need-help-with-siglent-sdm3055/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/need-help-with-siglent-sdm3055/)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on November 21, 2014, 07:53:07 am
Good. 
Please gíve strong feedback to working group who make FW fix but leave all untested. Customers are not pre testers.

Then this case, please help peoples with problems. It is only way to build better reputation. And it is extremely important for test eqquipment.
+1
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nctnico on November 21, 2014, 10:55:20 am
Good. 
Please gíve strong feedback to working group who make FW fix but leave all untested. Customers are not pre testers.
I agree. It seems Siglent does not have a seperate software testing team or department which checks a firmware release against a functional specification. IMHO having a seperate test team is a must-have in order to deliver consistent quality.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on November 22, 2014, 07:43:55 pm
I stumbled across a Siglent blog site that I did not know existed and thought it should be shared:

http://siglent.blog.com/ (http://siglent.blog.com/)

While not large by any means, some of the content is:

SDG5000 series
Oscilloscope dead time
SDS2000 Series
Sequence function.
History function
Series Bus protocols
Triggers
Waveform capture rate
SDG800

Hope some find it useful.  ;)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nixxon on November 27, 2014, 10:52:38 pm
Well the original X1 crystal is clearly 25MHz too, so it makes sense to replace it with a 25MHz TXCO. He also has an SDG1025, not an SDG1010. So I really don't understand your suspicion?

Now I just have to install the new TCXO in my SDG1020 and see if it works. It hope it is the right size. It looks so small.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: kwass on November 29, 2014, 06:04:36 am
I installed a TCXO on my SDG1025 and I posted a video on youtube.

Thank you for this!

I just made the same mod to my SDG1025 and it worked perfectly.  It's nice to have an accurate generator without having to use an external clock.



Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: MartyD on November 29, 2014, 10:00:20 am
This looks like a simple and effective mod.  :)
If I wouldn't care about warranty I'd also do that, along with swapping the fan for a quieter one.
The SDG1025 even outperforms my stone-aged Tektronix 2230 in generating audible noise, it's so annoying!

Marty
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on November 29, 2014, 01:24:34 pm
This looks like a simple and effective mod.  :)
If I wouldn't care about warranty I'd also do that, along with swapping the fan for a quieter one.
The SDG1025 even outperforms my stone-aged Tektronix 2230 in generating audible noise, it's so annoying!

Marty
Marty, that is unusual.
Siglent products are not known for noisy fans.
You are having a bad run.  :palm:
Can you check the blades for dust loading that might be affecting the normally quiet running?

Any others with noisy fans?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: MartyD on November 29, 2014, 01:44:35 pm
@tautech:
It's definitely not dust, it seems the fan is spinning way too fast when comparing the noise level to the SDM3055 and the SDS1102CML.
It is even more strange since the lower specificated SDG's do not need a fan at all and the air coming out of the unit is only a few degrees above ambient temperature, even after several hours of operation.

I suspect that some engineer wanted to be on the safe side and threw in a higher cfm fan than needed, just to make sure the unit doesn't overheat in the Sahara. ;D
Or maybe I'm just spoiled by the quietness of my other Siglent gear...

But since I'm already saving up for a 5xxx series generator I'm not worrying too much. :D

Marty
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on November 29, 2014, 01:58:31 pm
Marty
My personal SDG1010 makes no noise & I sometimes find it still running the next day.
I might get it out to do a job, set it up and for bench space place it where I can't see the screen so only if I look back after I turn the lights out I might see the screen glowing.  :palm:
But thats only if it hasn't gone into screen-saver mode.  :-DD

EDIT: The SDG1010 has no fan.

I'm not sure if Siglent up-rate the fans in their faster 1000 series AWG's so let's see what Jade has in reply for you here next week.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nctnico on November 29, 2014, 04:32:28 pm
Only the SDG1015 (IIRC) and higher have fans. The lower frequency models are fanless.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Macbeth on November 29, 2014, 09:51:08 pm
SDG1025 owner here. I have never actually noticed the fan noise, but I guess I am kind of immune to that low frequency stuff. My desktop PC with 2 HDDs is certainly much louder.

I've only just noticed my HP 6632B PSU is a little noisy, though it's not the fan but the transformer resonating through the case. Pressing down on the casing quietens it dramatically. I believe that I can stick on some rubber shock absorbers to the transformer to fix that. I am going to mod it for front binding posts and up the PSU input from 220 to 240VAC anyway.

Yeah, it's subjective I know, but SDG1025 clearly has a fan, but it's well within my tolerance.

I guess dB meters are needed for this kind of thing.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Rene on November 29, 2014, 11:01:48 pm
Hello.

SDG1025 owner here. I can also confirm that the SDG1025 has a loud fan. Nowhere near as loud of a Rigol instrument fan but definitely loud if you are working on a fairly quite place.

The sad part about the SDG1025 is that it does not need to be loud at all. Its only loud because they drilled tiny little hoes on both side of the instrument for ventilation purposes. And of course, since hot air does not travel sideways through tiny little holes they ended up needing to add a fan (a loud one to add insult to injury).

I am not expert on instrument design but it seems pretty obvious to me that the generator could have been easily designed to not require a fan at all given enough ventilation holes throughout the case.

Hopefully manufactures will start looking into making their equipment as silent as it can be. I know there is at least one manufacturer that makes a fan-less oscilloscope so I am pretty sure they are paying attention to the issue.

Besides the noise, Siglent also needs to look at the user interface design, I don't mean to be rude but the SDG1025 interface is pretty bad and not intuitive at all. There is definitely room for improvement there.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: MartyD on November 30, 2014, 09:21:42 am
I have done some temperature measurements on my SDG1025 and the SDM3055.
As it turns out, the SDG1025 indeed needs more air to stay cool, I've measured 30,4°C on the fan. The SDM3055 has around 26°C there, both measured after several hours of operation at 22,5°C room temperature. The SDM3055 is almost inaudible compared to the SDG1025.
As you can see in the picture, both use identical cases, only the front panel differs. Since front-to-back-cooling or bottom-to-top is impractical on a stackable unit Siglents decision to put them on the side makes sense. However, some more passive cooling components inside could easily help making the unit quieter. But I guess it's cheaper to throw in a fan than equipping the internals with proper heatsinks.  :-\

About the GUI of the SDG1025: I never really needed the manual, it took me about 30 minutes to fully understand how to operate it. If there is something I could complain about it's the colors of the outputs. On the front panel they are blue and yellow, on the screen they appear green and yellow. Nothing that can't be fixed in a firmware update though.

The SDM3055 behaves almost exactly like an Agilent 34461A, but it has some extra features and still some firmware bugs which need to be fixed.
Oh btw: I'd be very interested why it doesn't have a hard power switch and consumes 7,4W in standby mode (12,3W in operation).

Marty
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on November 30, 2014, 09:45:39 am
Marty.
Thanks for your constructive feedback.
Siglent is always watching and appreciative of quality comments, good or bad along with suggestions for product improvement. These are on-going, both firmware and hardware.
As you are probably aware the careful use of English and its "meaning" is needed for them to fully understand some issues.
Alternativley we agents can and do assist with interpretation/explanation.

I have a SDM3055 coming soon and hope to confirm some of your concerns too.
Looks like I'll be putting a master switch on my test equipment from what you say.  :(

Please keep it coming.  :-+
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: MartyD on November 30, 2014, 10:09:03 am
@tautech:
I apologize for my weird english, it's not my first language and I mostly only need it to read datasheets. ;D And yea, I try to be as constructive as possible.

Regarding the soft power button on the SDM3055: I can only imagine that some circuits are still powered in standby mode so the Meter doesn't need to warm up after switching it on. I cannot imagine the flashing LED consuming over 7W just for fun. But only some explanation from a Siglent engineer could enlighten us about this.  ;)

Also, if anybody is interested, I could make a video review about the Meter.
I was promised a new firmware version in a week from now on, so this would be the ideal time for a first review since I now know the Meter, it's firmware and the quirks good enough.

Marty
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on November 30, 2014, 10:18:13 am
Oh btw: I'd be very interested why it doesn't have a hard power switch


I have criticized it in SDS2000 series oscilloscopes.

This "standby" / "on" power switch alone without real 2-pole hard switch  is not at all good practise. I do not think so much power consumption in standby mode  (but also it is not acceptable)  but also safety.  I have in my lab well over 20 equipments allways ready for use + others. If all these have only standby switch whole orchestra take allways well over 100W in standby, say example over  150W estimate.  It means 3.6 kWh per day and over 1300kWh/a!  Just for nothing! (exept in Finland witer time it is part of house heating, but opposite in summer time when need use power for cooling extra heating)

But there is other aspects.

If psu fails it may itself made short or some other not so nice things. If it fails night time when equipments are alone, it may produce smoke and lab fire alarm go on.  I know there is also equipments what really need be stand By or even powered. Example frequency reference (house standard) and some equipments what have higher precision OCXO. Because shut off OCXO means frequency retract and it may need days for walk back to ageing curve this retract.  But even all these equipments have hard switch. And in well designed equipments hard mains switch is always 2 pole switch. (many chinese equipments have only 1-pole mains switch and it switch in most countries live or neutral wire. In some equipment and if some user have not grounded his equipment.... switching neutral off and leaving live 230Vac on is also least potential danger = this stupid one pole swith practice need also stop!)  Also some times mains  have breakouts and spikes...etc.

 If I have power I will set rule without exeptions that every T&M equipment, powered directly 110-240V mains,  need 2-pole mains switch without any exeptions.  Yes some can say there is mains plug and you can pull it out. Yes  --- there is, but...

I do not like system where cheap simple switch mode psu is always connected to mains and partially working, least primary side. 
Also all these generate EMI.  If I want EMI/RFI true silence, now I need plug out these equipments from mains because they do not have hard switch. Not good at all. many equipment need be on only if need use it.  (exept these what really need standby for accuracy stability)

I can not find any positive argument for leave hard 2-pole switch out from construction but I find lot of arguments why it is bad.  My opinion is: Really bad "fashion" but this is not alone Siglent. It is common "problem".

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Rene on November 30, 2014, 06:41:18 pm
Hi Marty,

Since front-to-back-cooling or bottom-to-top is impractical on a stackable unit Siglents decision to put them on the side makes sense.

Good point.

But even if side to side cooling was the only way to go, I think the current design could be vastly improved by simply making the air holes a lot bigger and throwing in a bigger slower an more quiet fan... at-least that is my feeling.

About the GUI of the SDG1025: I never really needed the manual, it took me about 30 minutes to fully understand how to operate it.

This is because the SDG1025 is a simple piece of equipment (it does not do much) but that does not take away the fact that the current user interface is non-intuitive. Put simply, there is no reason why things need to be more complicated than they have to be.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nctnico on November 30, 2014, 06:44:23 pm
I don't see what is complicated about the user interface. I never had to read the manual for my SDG1010. Only the firmware update procedure is not obvious.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Rene on November 30, 2014, 09:58:38 pm
I did't say that the user interface is complicated, I said that the user interface is more complicated than it needs to be. More than anything, its awkward and non intuitive.

In my view, there is plenty of room for improvement, but this is just my personal opinion.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: MartyD on December 01, 2014, 11:02:32 am
@rf-loop:

I am totally with you on this! I will never understand whats so complicated about just throwing in a 2-pole switch... |O

However, to "protect" my electricity meter from soft power switches I use these all around my house:
(http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/files/thumbs/lmis-2-c81e.jpg) (http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/files/lmis-2-c81e-jpg.html)
They also provide some overvoltage protection.


And on my UPS you can see what the few things on my hobby bench consume doing absolutely nothing:
(http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/files/thumbs/lmis-3-eccb.jpg) (http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/files/lmis-3-eccb-jpg.html)


It's a shame!

Marty
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: cozdas on December 09, 2014, 10:31:57 pm
Hi,
I sent this to support@siglent.com but received no reply. So I'm trying hoping that someone can help me figure out if the unit is malfunctioning or it's an user error:

-----

I'm trying to capture and analyze an occasional, non-periodic signal with my SDS1072CML .

I can do that without any trouble in the "Normal Mem Depth" mode;
- I just set the time to 50ms/div
- set the trigger to be triggered on the dropping edge
- set the trigger mode to "Normal"

when the signal arrives, I see it on the screen, I can zoom in to see the details of the signal or switch on the "delayed" mode by depressing the time knob. I can even stop the capture to prevent the next signal to re-trigger. All works as expected every time: so far so good.

But if I set the "Mem Depth" mode to "LongMem" then almost nothing works:

With the LongMem mode, sometimes I see the captured signal when it's triggered, sometimes I don't see the signal even after I zoom out to see the whole captured data. If the signal is there, turning on the delay mode behaves in a weird way: the bottom detail view doesn't pan with the position knob and it either shows a garbage data or a previous signal, not the one I've just captured.

It behaves as if the longmem memory modules are not recording and/or recalling the data properly (memory corruption?)

long mem feature is very important for this task as I need to analyse a long signal in detail, normal mem depth doesn't give me enough detail.

Please let me know what I should I do.

Thanks
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: PeterSD on December 14, 2014, 12:17:56 am
I have just received my Siglent SDS 1102CMS and posted a thread on here before realising this thread exists. This is seems to be the ideal place to get a direct response and support from Siglent.

I have read quite a few pages of posts in this thread and I am very impressed Siglent have handled the various comments, demonstrated they are listening and are prepared to respond and implement changes. This is most welcome and also unusual for a manufacturer. It can only help boost confidence within the user community.

I am building a model railway layout which includes many electronic modules, all connected together with a CAN BUS. I had an PC oscilloscope previously but found that support was poor and the unit quickly became obsolete.

Now to get back to my Siglent questions.

Packaging was very good and I quickly set up the Oscilloscope and probes. I then went on to install the software but found that the integration did not work. I am using Windows 7 on my PC and it did not identify the scope nor any driver for it.

1. I was advised to download the software from the Siglent site which I tried to do. The site informed me that I must be logged in. I tried to register many times but each time it failed to accept my registration attempts. Looking at the pattern of failures it would seem that the fact I am retired and not working for a company was the source of the problem. The name of my Unit/Company was the only question that still had a query against it. I had to give up. Can Siglent please look into this and advise me how I can register? Unless registered, we cannot get any support as feedback is also barred unless you are registered.

2. The version of Easyscope that I received on my disc has a release date of mid 2013. The site version has a release date of Sept 2014. It may well be that my scope was manufactured and shipped before Sept 2014 but it would be better to give copies of any new pc software to the retail distributors for shipping with items still held in stock for sale.   Could Siglent please consider this?

3. I now have a copy of the new software. I cleared all the previously loaded software from my computer then installed the new version of easyscope followed by NI visa512runtime.exe which was also included in the zipped package. I then opened up Easyscope and then connected my scope to the PC running Windows 7. The scope was not seen in the Easyscope program. I check my Printers and Devices PC utility and found that it was now correctly identified by model number but without a driver being present. Could Siglent please advise me of the actions I need to take?

Well that's all for now.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Mark_O on December 15, 2014, 08:28:57 am
1. I was advised to download the software from the Siglent site which I tried to do. The site informed me that I must be logged in. I tried to register many times but each time it failed to accept my registration attempts. Looking at the pattern of failures it would seem that the fact I am retired and not working for a company was the source of the problem. The name of my Unit/Company was the only question that still had a query against it. I had to give up. Can Siglent please look into this and advise me how I can register? Unless registered, we cannot get any support as feedback is also barred unless you are registered.

Just enter anything in that field, Peter.  I find that "Stuff and Nonsense, Inc." works pretty well.  :)  It's not like it's going to run a corporate search, and reject anything it can't find.  They're just data mining.  Heck, if enough people did that, it may someday show up in their Marketing literature, with "Stuff and Nonsense, Inc." listed alongside other major company customers, who have bought their products!

Quote
2. The version of Easyscope that I received on my disc has a release date of mid 2013. The site version has a release date of Sept 2014. It may well be that my scope was manufactured and shipped before Sept 2014 but it would be better to give copies of any new pc software to the retail distributors for shipping with items still held in stock for sale.   Could Siglent please consider this?

Ouch.  No.  I understand the sentiment, and why that might seem handy to you, but things change too quickly, and what you're proposing would be a major PITA (for manufs.), and add more expense to the distribution chain.  Plus delay getting units out to customers.  None of which is a good thing, in my book.  So, please, no.


Besides, requiring registration before downloading software that works only with your device is in itself foolish, IMO.  Your software should run in a demo mode if no device is present, and thus act as enhanced advertising content (if its any good).  I know why Marketing does this, to bulk up their mailing lists, but I'm not sure when I enter my Contact info as:  Bilbo Baggins, 12 Middle Earth Ln, etc. it does them much good.  ;)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nixxon on December 15, 2014, 03:46:05 pm
Well the original X1 crystal is clearly 25MHz too, so it makes sense to replace it with a 25MHz TXCO. He also has an SDG1025, not an SDG1010. So I really don't understand your suspicion?

Now I just have to install the new TCXO in my SDG1020 and see if it works. It hope it is the right size. It looks so small.

is there a measurable difference?

I installed the TCXO yesterday and used the SDG1020's frequency counter to measure a 10 MHz Morion MV85 OCXO (Uin not connected, so the frequency is pulled >0.5 ppm (between 5 and 10 Hz) below OCXO middle value)

With the original 25 MHz crystal installed, the SDG1020 measured 9,999830 MHz (-17 ppm) 9.999849 (-15.1ppm)
With the 25 MHz 0.1 ppm TCXO installed, the SDG1020 measured 9,999996 MHz (-0.4 ppm)

EDIT 2015/03/13: My SDG1020 with the 0.1 ppm Vanguard TCXO outputs 9.9999990 MHz when set to 10 MHz (that is exactly 0.1 ppm low). Measured with a HP 5315A frequency counter with OCXO option installed, calibrated using a Rubidium (FE-5680B) frequency standard.
*********************
My HP 5315A measures the 10 MHz OCXO a little high, at 10.000015 MHz. No longer the case - standard XO replaced by OCXO

2 hours ago, I ordered the parts at Farnell that I need to fit the MV85 OCXO onto the PCB by amc184 that goes into the 5315A as the new frequency reference. And now I just received an email from Farnell stating that the order has shipped from their warehouse in UK. Pretty fast handling. I will not be surprised if the shipment is delivered to my door (in Norway) by tomorrow.

EDIT (17 hours after order was placed):

Farnell element14 (or UPS) is hauling ass with my 100g parcel - 1468 miles driven in ~10 hours (after departure scanning in Leeds):

Google map route (https://www.google.no/maps/dir/Leeds,+West+Yorkshire,+Storbritannia/Castle+Donington,+Leicestershire,+Storbritannia/Köln,+Tyskland/DHL+Freight+(Sweden)+AB,+Terminalgatan+7,+211+24+Malmö,+Sverige/Oslo+S/Oslo+Lufthavn,+Edvard+Munchs+veg,+2061+Gardermoen/@55.0997287,-3.0032422,5z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m37!4m36!1m5!1m1!1s0x48793e4ada64bd99:0x51adbafd0213dca9!2m2!1d-1.5490774!2d53.8007554!1m5!1m1!1s0x4879e4e015c0708f:0x6433ee1cc06fcef2!2m2!1d-1.352741!2d52.8396533!1m5!1m1!1s0x47bf259169ab2fe5:0x42760fc4a2a77f0!2m2!1d6.9602786!2d50.937531!1m5!1m1!1s0x4653a3f36b9ca293:0x81b14e9f0201f5b1!2m2!1d13.008967!2d55.6227!1m5!1m1!1s0x46416e8a71e77b57:0x60d27cb2ddaac809!2m2!1d10.7535!2d59.911!1m5!1m1!1s0x4641838b248a1cbf:0xcca0add4a7eb5b82!2m2!1d11.100415!2d60.19755)

Very impressive. They are obviously serious about logistics.

Gardermoen, Norway   
16.12.2014   07:59   Departure scanning
16.12.2014   07:15   Importskanning
Oslo, Norway   
16.12.2014   06:28   Arrival scanning
Malmo Sturup, Sweden   
16.12.2014   05:18   Departure scanning
16.12.2014   04:17   Arrival scanning
Koeln, Germany   
16.12.2014   02:56   Departure scanning
16.12.2014   01:08   Arrival scanning
Castle Donnington, United Kingdom   
15.12.2014   22:52   Departure scanning
15.12.2014   21:10   Arrival scanning
Leeds, United Kingdom
15.12.2014   20:55   Departure scanning
15.12.2014   19:19   Export scanning
15.12.2014   19:19   Origin scanning (or something like that)
United Kingdom   
15.12.2014   13:32   Order handled:  Ready for UPS
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on December 15, 2014, 03:48:08 pm


2. The version of Easyscope that I received on my disc has a release date of mid 2013. The site version has a release date of Sept 2014. It may well be that my scope was manufactured and shipped before Sept 2014 but it would be better to give copies of any new pc software to the retail distributors for shipping with items still held in stock for sale.   Could Siglent please consider this?

3. I now have a copy of the new software. I cleared all the previously loaded software from my computer then installed the new version of easyscope followed by NI visa512runtime.exe which was also included in the zipped package. I then opened up Easyscope and then connected my scope to the PC running Windows 7. The scope was not seen in the Easyscope program. I check my Printers and Devices PC utility and found that it was now correctly identified by model number but without a driver being present. Could Siglent please advise me of the actions I need to take?

Well that's all for now.



2.
Here can download EasyScopeX-EN.rar (https://app.box.com/s/ps4t59hd9n18rkvr3ucf) (version 02.01.05)  82,3 MB (86 304 331 bytes)

It include compatible NI-VISA runtime and also .chm  help file (.rar is just exatly as it is from Siglent).
This is last version downloadable also from Siglent (main side).

3.
It is long time I have installed (other older version) EasyScopeX what also needs NI-Visa.

If I now remember right, it must install so that first install ni-visa.


(in my case it was some manual work for clean Windows USB related things and so on after first time wrong intsllation "hassle". (but this time Siglent did not distribute even Ni-Visa...)



Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on December 16, 2014, 01:44:13 am

1.
Quote
Can Siglent please look into this and advise me how I can register? Unless registered, we cannot get any support as feedback is also barred unless you are registered.
please visit http://www.siglentamerica.com/  (http://www.siglentamerica.com/)or http://siglenteu.com/ (http://siglenteu.com/) to download it. you do not need to register.
please use the public account to download it. ID: public; password:siglent
please contact us while you have any problem. support@siglent.com
Quote
2. The version of Easyscope that I received on my disc has a release date of mid 2013. The site version has a release date of Sept 2014. It may well be that my scope was manufactured and shipped before Sept 2014 but it would be better to give copies of any new pc software to the retail distributors for shipping with items still held in stock for sale.   Could Siglent please consider this?
Siglent will offer the most stable version of software inside the CD.
Quote
3. I now have a copy of the new software. I cleared all the previously loaded software from my computer then installed the new version of easyscope followed by NI visa512runtime.exe which was also included in the zipped package. I then opened up Easyscope and then connected my scope to the PC running Windows 7. The scope was not seen in the Easyscope program. I check my Printers and Devices PC utility and found that it was now correctly identified by model number but without a driver being present. Could Siglent please advise me of the actions I need to take?
you need to install ni-visa runtime first and then install easyscope. set the oscilloscope to USB-TMC mode.
Well that's all for now.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: PeterSD on December 17, 2014, 08:08:15 am

1.
Quote
Can Siglent please look into this and advise me how I can register? Unless registered, we cannot get any support as feedback is also barred unless you are registered.
please visit http://www.siglentamerica.com/  (http://www.siglentamerica.com/)or http://siglenteu.com/ (http://siglenteu.com/) to download it. you do not need to register.
please use the public account to download it. ID: public; password:siglent
please contact us while you have any problem. support@siglent.com
Quote
2. The version of Easyscope that I received on my disc has a release date of mid 2013. The site version has a release date of Sept 2014. It may well be that my scope was manufactured and shipped before Sept 2014 but it would be better to give copies of any new pc software to the retail distributors for shipping with items still held in stock for sale.   Could Siglent please consider this?
Siglent will offer the most stable version of software inside the CD.
Quote
3. I now have a copy of the new software. I cleared all the previously loaded software from my computer then installed the new version of easyscope followed by NI visa512runtime.exe which was also included in the zipped package. I then opened up Easyscope and then connected my scope to the PC running Windows 7. The scope was not seen in the Easyscope program. I check my Printers and Devices PC utility and found that it was now correctly identified by model number but without a driver being present. Could Siglent please advise me of the actions I need to take?
you need to install ni-visa runtime first and then install easyscope. set the oscilloscope to USB-TMC mode.
Well that's all for now.

Many thanks for your reply.

Logging on to the websites.
I have tried both websites and still cannot log on the public account. (See attachment 1)

Dealing with unsold stock when a software/firmware revision is released
The simplest way of dealing with this, requiring no additional work, could be to add a comment in the quick start manual giving the url to the support page for the instrument with details of how to log in on the public account.

Installing EasyScope X
I made the mistake of loading Easy ScopeX first. I removed both EasyScopeX and the NI visa512 runtime programs and reinstalled them in the order you give. The scope still does not appear in EasyScopex. The html document (Introduction) says Microsoft .NET framework version 3.5 is required. Windows 7 automatically installs this as part of the Windows package (see attachment 2). I am running Windows 7, Service  Pack 1.

I have checked my Devices and Printers folder within the Control Panel and confirmed that the scope is properly identified. I troubleshooted the scope and found that Windows could not identify a driver.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: PeterSD on December 17, 2014, 09:17:33 am


2. The version of Easyscope that I received on my disc has a release date of mid 2013. The site version has a release date of Sept 2014. It may well be that my scope was manufactured and shipped before Sept 2014 but it would be better to give copies of any new pc software to the retail distributors for shipping with items still held in stock for sale.   Could Siglent please consider this?

3. I now have a copy of the new software. I cleared all the previously loaded software from my computer then installed the new version of easyscope followed by NI visa512runtime.exe which was also included in the zipped package. I then opened up Easyscope and then connected my scope to the PC running Windows 7. The scope was not seen in the Easyscope program. I check my Printers and Devices PC utility and found that it was now correctly identified by model number but without a driver being present. Could Siglent please advise me of the actions I need to take?

Well that's all for now.



2.
Here can download EasyScopeX-EN.rar (https://app.box.com/s/ps4t59hd9n18rkvr3ucf) (version 02.01.05)  82,3 MB (86 304 331 bytes)

It include compatible NI-VISA runtime and also .chm  help file (.rar is just exatly as it is from Siglent).
This is last version downloadable also from Siglent (main side).

3.
It is long time I have installed (other older version) EasyScopeX what also needs NI-Visa.

If I now remember right, it must install so that first install ni-visa.


(in my case it was some manual work for clean Windows USB related things and so on after first time wrong intsllation "hassle". (but this time Siglent did not distribute even Ni-Visa...)

Thanks very much for your reply. Sorry for my delay in replying to you but I have just received seen your and Siglent's replies and wanted to try out the advice Siglent gave first. The order of loading the two pieces of software is not obvious in the documentation but Siglent advise the same order of installation as you do.

I think the big issue here is not associated with any of the software packages but the lack of a USB driver for the scope. Without this, there is no hope in connecting the pc to the scope. I understand why the run time programme is required as well as the .NET framework but both of these pieces of software cannot establish a scope driver. This surely is the manufacturers responsiblity. 
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 17, 2014, 09:53:45 am
@PeterSD
from my files and zipped.
Hope this helps

The files required for a connection to EasyscopeX are supplied with NVISA.
 
ausbtmc.inf must be set as the USB driver.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on December 17, 2014, 10:43:51 am
Is it possible that after some mistake in installation there come "Windows secrets".

After uninstall all installed things Windows do not forget what is writed in infcache.1 (there is stored allready installed USB drivers info. Widows do not clean it. Sometimes it may do troubles. We all also know this famous phrase in many purchased equipments USB connection. "do not connect USB before you first...etc...". No one exatly know why this hassle with USB continues years after years by Microsoft....)

Then you plug in your scope and there it is, wrong inf, agen and agen.

In some cases it may need manual fix.

Some idea can get example here,  but do not follow directly, only get some idea if really need reset some individual USB problem case)
http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/165554-usb-driver-general-fix-problems.html (http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/165554-usb-driver-general-fix-problems.html)



Ni-VISA, it (new FW  SDS1000L models)  communicate using USBTMC, not USBraw.  (this was different with same oscilloscope model with old FW versions.)

http://digital.ni.com/public.nsf/allkb/044FA220F32774ED86256DB3005850CA (http://digital.ni.com/public.nsf/allkb/044FA220F32774ED86256DB3005850CA)


I hope Siglent do work for better and more accurate "follow me" installation instructions. They need be exactly, and step by step.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: PeterSD on December 17, 2014, 12:52:17 pm
@PeterSD
from my files and zipped.
Hope this helps

Thank you tautech, I have to attend a meeting shortly but shall try the driver out late afternoon when I return :-+.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: PeterSD on December 17, 2014, 01:07:01 pm
Is it possible that after some mistake in installation there come "Windows secrets".

After uninstall all installed things Windows do not forget what is writed in infcache.1 (there is stored allready installed USB drivers info. Widows do not clean it. Sometimes it may do troubles. We all also know this famous phrase in many purchased equipments USB connection. "do not connect USB before you first...etc...". No one exatly know why this hassle with USB continues years after years by Microsoft....)

Then you plug in your scope and there it is, wrong inf, agen and agen.

In some cases it may need manual fix.

After any change introduced in Windows, I always reboot the system to ensure that everything is removed, regardless if Windows asks for it or not.

Quote
Some idea can get example here,  but do not follow directly, only get some idea if really need reset some individual USB problem case)
http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/165554-usb-driver-general-fix-problems.html (http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/165554-usb-driver-general-fix-problems.html)

Thanks for this. I shall look up the information in your link later.

Quote
Ni-VISA, it (new FW  SDS1000L models)  communicate using USBTMC, not USBraw.  (this was different with same oscilloscope model with old FW versions.)

http://digital.ni.com/public.nsf/allkb/044FA220F32774ED86256DB3005850CA (http://digital.ni.com/public.nsf/allkb/044FA220F32774ED86256DB3005850CA)


I hope Siglent do work for better and more accurate "follow me" installation instructions. They need be exactly, and step by step.

This is what I am asking Siglent to do. I believe that Siglent are serious in making improvements for the user, based on previous replies on this thread. A little more thought in the instructions would go a long way to achieving customer satisfaction. BTW, I am starting to use the scope as a stand-alone item and I am very pleased with the results so far. This is a great improvement over my previous model.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: PeterSD on December 17, 2014, 07:31:53 pm
@PeterSD
from my files and zipped.
Hope this helps

Thank you tautech, I have to attend a meeting shortly but shall try the driver out late afternoon when I return :-+.

I have unzipped the file and successfully loaded the driver. I ran EasyScopeX but the scope did not appear in the program (I did select USBTMC from the option menus when Add Device was selected).

I have the driver in a folder within 'my documents', Perhaps it should be placed elsewhere.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 17, 2014, 07:41:41 pm
@PeterSD
Shouldn't matter where you put them providing Windows knows where they are.

Will have to get a SDS1000 series DSO out for further investigation of their default driver setup.
My 2000 series on bench is different.
Bear with me
Shouldn't be long.

SEE POST https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg569961/#msg569961 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg569961/#msg569961)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: PeterSD on December 17, 2014, 07:53:13 pm
@PeterSD
Shouldn't matter where you put them providing Windows knows where they are.

Will have to get a SDS1000 series DSO out for further investigation of their default driver setup.
My 2000 series on bench is different.
Bear with me
Shouldn't be long.

Thank you for your help
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 17, 2014, 08:26:59 pm
@PeterSD
SDS1000 series connects no problem to the previous Easyscope3 after a simple install.(DSO not connected during install)
However Easyscope3 is no match for EasyscopeX for usability and functionality.

Yes it seems SDS1000 series connection is problematic to ES X.
Drivers accepted and has active/valid USB connection but DSO not seen by ES X.

But it needs sorting out with clear guidelines for a seamless trouble free install.

I'll point Jade at Siglent to this, he will have the answers.

SEE POST https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg569961/#msg569961 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg569961/#msg569961)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: PeterSD on December 17, 2014, 09:14:22 pm
@PeterSD

SDS1000 series connects no problem to the previous Easyscope3 after a simple install.(DSO not connected during install)
However Easyscope3 is no match for EasyscopeX for usability and functionality.

Yes it seems SDS1000 series connection is problematic to ES X.
Drivers accepted and has active/valid USB connection but DSO not seen by ES X.

But it needs sorting out with clear guidelines for a seamless trouble free install.

I'll point Jade at Siglent to this, he will have the answers.

Thanks for your help. I never believed I was completely alone with this issue and fixing it will avoid others having the problems I have experienced.

I shall wait for a solution and continue to use the oscilloscope as a stand alone item. It would be nice to be able to print the test results but I shall try to photograph the screen as a record (my printer is wireless).

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 17, 2014, 09:34:33 pm
@ PeterSD
Use a USB pen drive to capture screen shots in the meanwhile. Use the white "Print" key.
This is probably the most common way of recording waveforms.

Easyscope provides a better "linked' solution but its easy to open the USB capture in a picture viewer, then send to printer or compress them to a more manageable size for documents or to post here.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: PeterSD on December 17, 2014, 10:40:32 pm
@ PeterSD
Use a USB pen drive to capture screen shots in the meanwhile. Use the white "Print" key.
This is probably the most common way of recording waveforms.

Easyscope provides a better "linked' solution but its easy to open the USB capture in a picture viewer, then send to printer or compress them to a more manageable size for documents or to post here.

Thanks again. I have attached an image of the test/calibration signal to prove to myself this can be done.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 17, 2014, 11:14:02 pm
Easy ay.  ;D
My advice re scope use and Auto Set.
Resist the urge to continually use it.
It omits all previous settings, some often laboriously set.

Learn the features and capabilities of your DSO and how to apply them to best effect.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: PeterSD on December 17, 2014, 11:41:01 pm
Easy ay.  ;D
My advice re scope use and Auto Set.
Resist the urge to continually use it.
It omits all previous settings, some often laboriously set.

Learn the features and capabilities of your DSO and how to apply them to best effect.

A dream to use. It certainly will be a good stop gap until the PC connection is fixed.

Thanks also for your advice on using Autoset. I was just being idle to get the reference waveform on screen. At last I can use the scope properly for the purpose it was purchased.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on December 18, 2014, 02:14:54 am
Peter,
the first thing I want to confirm is the model and software version of your unit.
If the firmware is 5.XX.XX.XX please watch the video and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FHhy0yP7_s
 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FHhy0yP7_s) and download the EasyscopeX here http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Software/EasyScopeX-EN-B02D01P05.rar (http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Software/EasyScopeX-EN-B02D01P05.rar)
while the firmware is 3.XX.XX.XX, please use old Easyscope3.0 http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Software/EasyScope.rar (http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Software/EasyScope.rar)and install the driver through the instruction.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: PeterSD on December 18, 2014, 11:29:50 am
Peter,
the first thing I want to confirm is the model and software version of your unit.
If the firmware is 5.XX.XX.XX please watch the video and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FHhy0yP7_s
 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FHhy0yP7_s) and download the EasyscopeX here http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Software/EasyScopeX-EN-B02D01P05.rar (http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Software/EasyScopeX-EN-B02D01P05.rar)
while the firmware is 3.XX.XX.XX, please use old Easyscope3.0 http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Software/EasyScope.rar (http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Software/EasyScope.rar)and install the driver through the instruction.

Versions of my SDS 1102CML

Software 5.01.02.22
Hardware 11.62-3.5

I am running Windows 7 Service Pack 1

To make another clean start, I removed EasyScopeX and 3.5.2 Run time from my computer and restarted windows to complete the un installs .

I watched the video and downloaded the software in your link above 

I tried to install .Net framework 3.5 Service pack 1 then ran into some issues (see images below):

From this I conclude (as I have previously said) that my version of windows already has net framework 3.5 Service pack 1 installed
as part of the standard windows package. The warnings suggest that the installation I have tried to make is an OLDER version. From what I have read, .Net framework is backwards compatible and therefore I need not have installed it.

I am stopping at this point but shall continue when I have confirmation that I can proceed.  (http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Software/EasyScopeX-EN-B02D01P05.rar)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: PeterSD on December 18, 2014, 03:19:11 pm
I am trying to clarify the html document regarding System Requirements. Please see attached file which puts things in a better order as far as .Net framework is concerned. The video carries out a step prior to installing the NI 5.1.2 run time. I cannot find any links to the site to carry out this part of the video demonstration.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 18, 2014, 07:06:27 pm
I am trying to clarify the html document regarding System Requirements. Please see attached file which puts things in a better order as far as .Net framework is concerned. The video carries out a step prior to installing the NI 5.1.2 run time. I cannot find any links to the site to carry out this part of the video demonstration.
The link is in EasyScopeXEN.chm in the root folder of EasyscopeX on the CD
Scroll down to find it.

SEE POST https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg569961/#msg569961 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg569961/#msg569961)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: PeterSD on December 18, 2014, 09:54:51 pm
I am trying to clarify the html document regarding System Requirements. Please see attached file which puts things in a better order as far as .Net framework is concerned. The video carries out a step prior to installing the NI 5.1.2 run time. I cannot find any links to the site to carry out this part of the video demonstration.
The link is in EasyScopeXEN.chm in the root folder of EasyscopeX on the CD
Scroll down to find it.

I cannot find the link. The only link is the ni 5.1.2 link.

I am using the html document that was included in the zipped file in the link provided by Siglent. I believe this was intended as a comprehensive set of instructions. The changes I have made so far try to make some sort of ordered instructions.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on December 23, 2014, 02:41:18 am
Hi Guys, sorry to let you wait so long. today I bring a Christmas gift for you—the new firmware(1.01.01.37.2) of SDS2000 series. please download it from here http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS2000-1.01.01.37.2.rar (http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS2000-1.01.01.37.2.rar)
Attention:please Update the .CFG file first
Enhancements
1. Update CAN, LIN decode function
2. Update digital channel function
3. Update trigger system
4. Add Cursors in MSO mode
5. Several known issues
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on December 24, 2014, 12:42:05 pm
Hi Guys, sorry to let you wait so long. today I bring a Christmas gift for you—the new firmware(1.01.01.37.2) of SDS2000 series. please download it from here http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS2000-1.01.01.37.2.rar (http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS2000-1.01.01.37.2.rar)
Attention:please Update the .CFG file first
Enhancements
1. Update CAN, LIN decode function
2. Update digital channel function
3. Update trigger system
4. Add Cursors in MSO mode
5. Several known issues

Please clarify.
There is attached  instructions (pdf file)  in SDS2000-1.01.01.37.2.rar  file.
Do you mean  instructions in pdf file are wrong? 

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 24, 2014, 07:21:18 pm
Hi Guys, sorry to let you wait so long. today I bring a Christmas gift for you—the new firmware(1.01.01.37.2) of SDS2000 series. please download it from here http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS2000-1.01.01.37.2.rar (http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS2000-1.01.01.37.2.rar)
Attention:please Update the .CFG file first
Enhancements
1. Update CAN, LIN decode function
2. Update digital channel function
3. Update trigger system
4. Add Cursors in MSO mode
5. Several known issues

Please clarify.
There is attached  instructions (pdf file)  in SDS2000-1.01.01.37.2.rar  file.
Do you mean  instructions in pdf file are wrong?
Here are the amended Firmware install instructions:
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on December 25, 2014, 07:28:50 am
Hi Guys, sorry to let you wait so long. today I bring a Christmas gift for you—the new firmware(1.01.01.37.2) of SDS2000 series. please download it from here http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS2000-1.01.01.37.2.rar (http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS2000-1.01.01.37.2.rar)
Attention:please Update the .CFG file first
Enhancements
1. Update CAN, LIN decode function
2. Update digital channel function
3. Update trigger system
4. Add Cursors in MSO mode
5. Several known issues

Please clarify.
There is attached  instructions (pdf file)  in SDS2000-1.01.01.37.2.rar  file.
Do you mean  instructions in pdf file are wrong?
Here are the amended Firmware install instructions:

Yes, if read pdf instructions top to down as usually peoples read, order is first FW then CFG. Now Siglent tell this order is wrong. If this is really wrong then pdf instructions need correct. This is because important segment of users do not read intsructions from EEVblog, if even know this forum.

Ed: It looks like now (or after I downloaded)  information is added to download side. (but not corrected in update instructions pdf.)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nctnico on December 25, 2014, 11:48:14 am
What are the symptoms when the CFG file for the SDS2000 is updated as the last step (like I did)?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 25, 2014, 07:54:53 pm
What are the symptoms when the CFG file for the SDS2000 is updated as the last step (like I did)?
If CFG file was installed at the same time as the ADS file (main update) I don't think there are any problems.
I got the CFG file installed an hour or two after the main update, without it the sympton is a boot screen fault.

AFAIK the order of install for the 2 files does not matter, just they are both needed.

Why the firmware was 2 files I am not sure, they are usually only 1 file.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on December 25, 2014, 09:10:59 pm
What are the symptoms when the CFG file for the SDS2000 is updated as the last step (like I did)?
If CFG file was installed at the same time as the ADS file (main update) I don't think there are any problems.
I got the CFG file installed an hour or two after the main update, without it the sympton is a boot screen fault.

AFAIK the order of install for the 2 files does not matter, just they are both needed.

Why the firmware was 2 files I am not sure, they are usually only 1 file.

Also SDS1000L models have .cnf file.
This is just "wild speculation" (or not so wild). It include "perhaps" boot screen image (and some other information).

Perhaps I can make my own boot screen with my brand.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 25, 2014, 09:38:02 pm
Perhaps I can make my own boot screen with my brand.
;D  >:D  ;)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: monz on December 27, 2014, 08:16:53 pm
Hello, I posted in another thread about a potential problem with my SPD3303D power supply.

It seems that the current meters do not work correctly in series mode. Current is only measured for channel 1 (and whatever is displayed on channel 1 is displayed on 2). This is ok when a load is only across both supplies (current would be equal here, still shouldn't be assumed), but load between common and either side while in series mode, current is only measured for channel 1. Channel 2 will show 0A when load is across common and channel 2. Likewise, when the load is only between channel 1 and common, channel 2 meter shows the same load as 1, with nothing connected.

This seems like a software bug, if they're wired in series externally with a jumper, everything works as expected. Maybe hardware limitation, I would assume pressing series just places a connection between the to the same as an external jumper and sets the software to lock the two channel control together so they track (option to not track should be included)

Attachments show connections with load on only one side at a time in series mode.

Additionally I'm unable to update the firmware, it says "This file does not match the device!"

Any ideas, am I missing something?

Details are in the post:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-spd3303d-series-bug/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-spd3303d-series-bug/)


Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on December 29, 2014, 11:06:08 am
I hope siglent give full detailed and perfect answer how this PSU outputs are working exatly. Including full explanation about front panel  Common  mark under CH2 negative pole when used in series mode.

Also more read before answer can find here in other thread..
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-spd3303d-series-bug/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-spd3303d-series-bug/)


These kind of things need be fully and accurately explained in user manual and data sheet.

This kind of information need develop better, far better.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: CosPhi on January 03, 2015, 02:26:37 pm
*** SHS1062 Problems ***

Hello, I just would like to ask if there will be ever again a firmware update for the SHS1062 because there are still "some" problems ...

The scope does work pretty well in short timebases and "short memory" mode. But the scope almost doesn't work at all in "long memory" mode longer timebases.

So problems in "long memory" mode ...

- In shorter timebases after stopping the scope it is way off the trigger point.

- In longer timebases there is no indication if the scope really is ready for the trigger or if it is still filling the memory before the trigger point. With a 10s/div timebase and the trigger point in the center I guess it does need about 2 minutes to be ready. But there is no indication for it. After stopping the record it also can be, there is nothing on the screen of the scope ... so it is really not possible to work in this long timebases with long memory at all.

- After recording with 1/div the timebase is wrong after zoom in (picture below).

- Also other longer timebases it mix up things also (2nd picture below) but at least the timebases are ok.

- Why are single shots just in short memory mode possible?



There are also some other smaller things ...

Scope Trend Plot:
- The probe (x10 or wathever) is not included. So the showed value is the "wrong", 10 times to small with a x10 probe.

- When the scope is stopped and you would like to start the recorder just channel 1 is showed but not channel 2.

Scope Recorder:
- Zoom in doesn't work well ...

Over all the scope:
- The colors combinations at least in inverted color mode (black background) are not not always chosen so lucky (yellow letters on green backround).

- Different color for the traces. In scope mode ch1: yellow/ ch2: light blue. In recorder mode ch1: blue / ch2: red


Scope measurement function:
I guess I never used to do use measure functions with another scope but I guess something is at least a bit wrong or bad implemented, so ...

- It seems not possible to measure the Phase shift between Ch1 and Ch2 if not both are clean sinus waves. So it is not possible often to measure the phase shift between a voltage on Ch1 and a current Ch2 (from a clamp).

- So I did measure the time from when the voltage goes thru 0 from Ch1 and Ch2.
Source > Ch1 / Type > FRR
The problem here is, example 50Hz/ 20ms per wave, if Ch2 is more than 10ms behind, let's say 15ms behind, the scope just say
FRR:5ms
I think it should be 15ms with Ch1 as source (or at least -5ms).


Scope with Filter:
- When the scope is running everything is fine. But after stopping just the original/unfiltered waveform is showed ... and the filter function is turned off in the menu, so you have to enable the filter each time again after stop/start ...



Firmware : 3.01.02.01
Harware : 1-21-3.3
Serial No : SHS000031300x (I guess the last digit doesn't matter)


Special the thing with the "long memory" mode bothers me because I bought the scope because of the 2Mpoint memory. Also the filter thing, I often use the filter in combination with the AC/DC current clamp on smaller currents to get a cleaner waveform.

I don't understand why there is for over one year no firmware update again for the scope.

Apropos "over a year" ... happy new year anyway  ^-^ ... I hope to see new firmware soon :-\
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on January 07, 2015, 08:42:32 am
Thank you CosPhi, I duplicated your problems.
I  feedback these problems to the R&D department and we hope to release a new version before Chinese new year.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Zbig on January 07, 2015, 09:45:37 am
Hi Siglent,

in the other thread, https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-spd3303d-series-bug/msg581704/#msg581704 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-spd3303d-series-bug/msg581704/#msg581704) , I've described the problem I have with my SPD3303S power supply. Apparently, they've silently revised the board, rotating the LCD 180 degrees and after I've upgraded my (presumably older version) hardware with the latest firmware posted on the Siglent website, everything displays upside down. There's no mention on the website that it's only applicable to some of the SPD3303Ss. I got in touch with Siglent but all they could offer was the firmware version even older than what I had before: 1.01.01.01.03 vs. 1.01.01.01.03R1. That's a really weird situation, please help me solve that.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on January 14, 2015, 03:29:37 pm
Greetings again!

I wanted to let everyone know that if you happen to be in the Silicon Valley area of California the week of January 25, Siglent will have a booth (#1245) at the DesignCon show at the Santa Clara Convention Center. Exhibition days are January 28 & 29. Two of us from Cleveland will be there as well as one of our factory people.

If you are planning on attending the show we would love to say hello so please stop by! We will have several new prototypes of equipment coming out later this year, including one of our new spectrum analyzers.

Warm regards,
Steve
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on January 14, 2015, 06:10:24 pm
We will have several new prototypes of equipment coming out later this year, including one of our new spectrum analyzers.
Steve, give a hint to the specs of this new series of  Siglent Spectrum Analyzers.  ;)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on January 14, 2015, 06:54:24 pm
There is a 1.5/1.8 GHz model and a 3 GHz model. The unit I saw had a tracking generator and the EMC tools. I don't know if they are standard or optional. It was a really nice looking unit. We showed the 3 GHz version at Electronica. Specs should be better than comparable products in this price range. I believe the display is larger.

That's all I can say at this point. I hope to learn more at DesignCon.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Rene on January 22, 2015, 06:59:22 am
Dumb question.....

Is the 50 ohms output impedance on the SDG1025 function generator always present even if I setup the Load parameter to be equal to "High-Z"?

My guess is that the answer is yes but just wanted to triple check. I assume that there is some kind of a physical 50 ohms resistor welded right before the BNC output connector so it is always there no matter what parameter you set in the function generator.

Could someone verify this for me?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on January 22, 2015, 08:50:47 am
Dumb question.....

Is the 50 ohms output impedance on the SDG1025 function generator always present even if I setup the Load parameter to be equal to "High-Z"?

My guess is that the answer is yes but just wanted to triple check. I assume that there is some kind of a physical 50 ohms resistor welded right before the BNC output connector so it is always there no matter what parameter you set in the function generator.

Could someone verify this for me?

Thanks.
I did wonder if you where dumb, then I thought it is a good question.

But I don't know.  :palm:
Have a scour through the links on the https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-sdg1000-and-sdg800-thread/msg579096/#msg579096 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-sdg1000-and-sdg800-thread/msg579096/#msg579096) thread.

Check the teardowns and this link:http://sigrok.org/wiki/Siglent_SDG1010 (http://sigrok.org/wiki/Siglent_SDG1010)
Thought this might show it but no.

(http://sigrok.org/wimg/e/e3/Siglent_sdg1010_analog_bnc.jpg)

You might have to do a teardown yourself for the answer.  :P
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on January 22, 2015, 09:24:28 am
Dumb question.....

Is the 50 ohms output impedance on the SDG1025 function generator always present even if I setup the Load parameter to be equal to "High-Z"?

Simple answer. Yes. Output internal impedance is 50ohm INDEPENDENT of what value you set for LOAD impedance what setting affect only for displayed V level so that you need not yourself calculate it. Adjustment is NOT for adjust internal impedance. Adjustment tell to SDG what is your LOAD impedance. If your LOAD impedance set is right, only  then SDG display can show right Voltage level.

Inside  is "zero impedance" source -- internal impedance 50 ohm ---BNC out --- your LOAD impedance --|

>---Ri--OUT--Rload---GND

Example:
If you set HI-Z as load setting... and your SDG V level show 10V. You connect 50ohm load to output. Your level over your load is 5V.  (source voltage 10V and series 50ohm Ri and 50ohm Rload)

If you set HI-Z  as load setting... and your SDG V level show 10V You connect 1Mohm load to output. Your level over your load is around ~10V (source voltage 10V and series 50ohm Ri and 1Mohm Rload)

If you set 50ohm as load setting... and your SDG V level show 10V. You connect 50ohm load to output. Your level for your load is 10V.  (source voltage 20V and series 50ohm Ri and 50ohm Rload)

If you set 50ohm as load setting... and your SDG V level show 10V. You connect 1Mohm load to output. Your level for your load is ~20V.  (source voltage 20V and series 50ohm Ri and 50ohm Rload)

(it is also in data sheet and it is in manual)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Rene on January 22, 2015, 08:56:02 pm
Guys, thank you for helping me out with my question.

Before posting, I did run some experiments and I also concluded that the 50 ohms resistor was being used regardless of the Load setting chosen (50 ohms or High-Z). The problem with those tests is that they were not really conclusive (at least I think they were not conclusive).

For example, lets say that this particular function generator had two transmission lines leading up to the BNC output connector, one with a 50 ohms resistor in series and the other without the resistor. Because of this physical design, this would mean that it may be possible via some software setting (on the current or some future version of the software) to actually bypass the transmission line with the 50 ohms resistor.... Yes, i realize that my example is a dumb example but I am new to all this and right now I feel like a hormone raging teenager checking out their very first porn magazine, my mind is going all over the place!

So anyway, what I wanted to verify was that it was physically impossible to skip the 50 ohms resistor due to the hardware design. in other words, there is only one transmission line leading up to the output and such transmission line has a 50 ohms resistor welded in series on it so it is impossible to bypass the resistor via software. Based on the replies, this appears to be the case.

Thanks.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: IvoS on January 22, 2015, 09:08:55 pm
I have a warranty question. I want to buy a new SDG5082 generator. Will I still get 3year warranty coverage even though I buy from overseas or someone from eBay?
Thanks.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on January 22, 2015, 09:15:18 pm
I have a warranty question. I want to buy a new SDG5082 generator. Will I still get 3year warranty coverage even though I buy from overseas or someone from eBay?
Thanks.
Yes of course you will or should.
Whether you will get any required support from your supplier is another question.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on January 23, 2015, 06:36:54 am
I have a warranty question. I want to buy a new SDG5082 generator. Will I still get 3year warranty coverage even though I buy from overseas or someone from eBay?
Thanks.

Read siglent warranty  related your region. (read whole text carefully)
Example:

Partial quote siglentamerica:
http://siglentamerica.com/support (http://siglentamerica.com/support)

Quote
The following warranty applies to all SIGLENT products procured through the SIGLENT America office and/or its’ approved North American representatives and/or distributors. Product purchased from outside the SIGLENT network will be serviced by the selling agents and not SIGLENT Technologies.


Partial quote siglenteurope:

http://siglenteu.com/shfw.aspx (http://siglenteu.com/shfw.aspx)

Quote
The following warranty applies to all SIGLENT products procured through the SIGLENT Europe office and/or its’ approved Europe representatives and/or distributors. Product purchased from outside the SIGLENT network will be serviced by the selling agents and not SIGLENT Technologies.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on February 14, 2015, 03:50:41 pm
Just because Spring Festival time is starting soon.
But do not worry if factory in China is closed.

Assembled in...
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: SeanB on February 14, 2015, 04:12:56 pm
Just because Spring Festival time is starting soon.
But do not worry if factory in China is closed.

Assembled in...

Riggght. Pull the other one, which plays Yankee Doodle.

As an aside, spot the misconnection on this Samsung TV set at my bank ( the Steve Bank) that purports to be "Made in South Africa" as well. Local TV set manufacture stopped in 1996 when the assembly plant in PE closed down, due to cheap imports. Even then they had been reduced from a full house manufacturer doing everything from design to panel and case manufacture to a kit assembler who got the local content mark from closing the back panel, placing the set in a box with a locally printed manual and placing a pair of batteries in a pack with the remote.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: commongrounder on February 15, 2015, 03:39:57 pm
Ha!  Stereo mini plug into RCA jack!  Bet that monitor has no audio!  ::)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: SeanB on February 15, 2015, 03:54:57 pm
The audio out goes to in cieling speakers, that are powered and make a very quiet hum. Luckily they plugged the mini jack into a video component Input jack. One to the left is video out....... Sad to say the video feed is via the RF link, not via the VGA input though there is a cable attached to it, leading to a computer somewhere. Kind of a waste having a HD monitor, and feeding it a standard video signal instead of using it to it's best resolution.

Must build myself a TV be gone sometime..........
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on February 15, 2015, 07:11:09 pm
Just because Spring Festival time is starting soon.
But do not worry if factory in China is closed.

Assembled in...
It's the back panel of the SDS3000 designed and built in conjunction with LeCroy.....
http://www.siglent.com/prodcut-detailxx.aspx?id=80&tid=-1&T=2 (http://www.siglent.com/prodcut-detailxx.aspx?id=80&tid=-1&T=2)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on February 15, 2015, 07:34:35 pm
Just because Spring Festival time is starting soon.
But do not worry if factory in China is closed.

Assembled in...
It's the back panel of the SDS3000 designed and built in conjunction with LeCroy.....
http://www.siglent.com/prodcut-detailxx.aspx?id=80&tid=-1&T=2 (http://www.siglent.com/prodcut-detailxx.aspx?id=80&tid=-1&T=2)

Yes.

Also as Spring Festival present SDS2000 peak detect mode started suddenly and surprisingly working.  (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent%27s-new-product-msosds2000-series/msg609695/#msg609695)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on February 15, 2015, 07:58:19 pm
Just because Spring Festival time is starting soon.
But do not worry if factory in China is closed.

Assembled in...
It's the back panel of the SDS3000 designed and built in conjunction with LeCroy.....
http://www.siglent.com/prodcut-detailxx.aspx?id=80&tid=-1&T=2 (http://www.siglent.com/prodcut-detailxx.aspx?id=80&tid=-1&T=2)

Yes.

Also as Spring Festival present SDS2000 peak detect mode started suddenly and surprisingly working.  (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent%27s-new-product-msosds2000-series/msg609695/#msg609695)
Maybe we should advance the RTC to see what other features Siglent have decided to release that are linked to the date?  >:D
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nctnico on February 15, 2015, 08:03:59 pm
I already verified peak detect works since the most recent firmware update. Nothing new here. Peak detect still doesn't work properly in roll mode though.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Owen on March 11, 2015, 07:21:22 pm
It seems that Siglent released a new SDG1000 Firmware (1.01.01.37R2): Are any Changelogs available?

http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=1260&tid=15 (http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=1260&tid=15)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 11, 2015, 07:29:44 pm
The last few I have opened the logs were included in another file.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: SHF on March 12, 2015, 04:55:39 pm
Hello!
new SDG1000 Firmware (1.01.01.37R2) has new menu !! - >> Bandwidth Update - >> Please input license to update bandwidth !
very interesting..... ;) ;)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 12, 2015, 06:37:35 pm
Hello!
new SDG1000 Firmware (1.01.01.37R2) has new menu !! - >> Bandwidth Update - >> Please input license to update bandwidth !
very interesting..... ;) ;)
Welcome to the forum.

It is.  :-+
This might indicate Siglent is starting to offer bandwidth upgrade options to some of their products.  :-+
Of course any product range incorporating the same HW theoretically should be capable of this.
Other manufacturers do it why shouldn't Siglent?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on March 12, 2015, 08:01:49 pm
Hello!
new SDG1000 Firmware (1.01.01.37R2) has new menu !! - >> Bandwidth Update - >> Please input license to update bandwidth !
very interesting..... ;) ;)

In the world there are many kinds of exciting things.
It may be that the Year of the Rabbit Siglent will present even more some nice things....
 ;)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on March 13, 2015, 02:24:58 am
It is true.
here is all the latest firmware link
SDG1000 series
http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SDG1000-V100R001B01D01P37R2.zip (http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SDG1000-V100R001B01D01P37R2.zip)
http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG1000-V100R001B01D01P37R2.zip (http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG1000-V100R001B01D01P37R2.zip)
SDG5000 series
http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SDG5000-V500R001B01D01P12.zip (http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SDG5000-V500R001B01D01P12.zip)
http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG5000-V500R001B01D01P12.zip (http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG5000-V500R001B01D01P12.zip)
SDS1000CFL
http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SDS1000CFL_2CH_SSP_V100R005B08D02P38.zip (http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SDS1000CFL_2CH_SSP_V100R005B08D02P38.zip)
http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SDS1000CFL_4CH_SSP_V100R005B03D02P38.zip (http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SDS1000CFL_4CH_SSP_V100R005B03D02P38.zip)
http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS1000CFL_2CH_SSP_V100R005B08D02P38.zip (http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS1000CFL_2CH_SSP_V100R005B08D02P38.zip)
http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS1000CFL_4CH_SSP_V100R005B03D02P38.zip (http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS1000CFL_4CH_SSP_V100R005B03D02P38.zip)
SDS1000CML/CNL(except SDS1202CNL+)
http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS1000CML_SSP_V100R005B01D02P29.zip (http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS1000CML_SSP_V100R005B01D02P29.zip)
http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SDS1000CML_SSP_V100R005B01D02P29.zip (http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SDS1000CML_SSP_V100R005B01D02P29.zip)
SHS1000/800
http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SHS820_V100R003B01D02P02R2.zip (http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SHS820_V100R003B01D02P02R2.zip)
http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SHS1000_V100R003B01D02P02R2.zip (http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SHS1000_V100R003B01D02P02R2.zip)
http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SHS820_V100R003B01D02P02R2.zip (http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SHS820_V100R003B01D02P02R2.zip)
http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SHS1000_V100R003B01D02P02R2.zip (http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SHS1000_V100R003B01D02P02R2.zip)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: pickle9000 on March 13, 2015, 02:28:29 am
One thing Siglent really beats Rigol at, firmware updates.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 13, 2015, 04:32:23 am
One thing Siglent really beats Rigol at, firmware updates.
You forgot low jitter.  ;)  :box:
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Rene on March 14, 2015, 04:35:16 am
One thing Siglent really beats Rigol at, firmware updates.

Too bad they continues to behave in such an irresponsible manner as to continue the practice of distributing software that has not been digitally signed. Such lack of consideration towards their customers security concerns.... oh well.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Docholiday on March 14, 2015, 04:56:09 am
A file embedded with a digital code is no longer a viable method to ensure a files integerity. Those days are long gone...
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Rene on March 14, 2015, 05:48:43 am
A file embedded with a digital code is no longer a viable method to ensure a files integerity. Those days are long gone...

Why do you say that? Digital signatures on files is how all reputable companies distribute software. Can you point me to some reference that states that digital code is no longer a viable method to ensure a files integrity?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: pickle9000 on March 14, 2015, 07:25:57 am
One thing Siglent really beats Rigol at, firmware updates.

Too bad they continues to behave in such an irresponsible manner as to continue the practice of distributing software that has not been digitally signed. Such lack of consideration towards their customers security concerns.... oh well.

Security is minor compared to the functionality, usability. All Chinese scope manufacturers fail big time on that count.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 14, 2015, 07:54:50 am
One thing Siglent really beats Rigol at, firmware updates.

Too bad they continues to behave in such an irresponsible manner as to continue the practice of distributing software that has not been digitally signed. Such lack of consideration towards their customers security concerns.... oh well.

Security is minor compared to the functionality, usability. All Chinese scope manufacturers fail big time on that count.
Just what OS's warn of a file not signed? I only use Windows and wonder if other OS's wave the red flag like it does.  :-//

IMO its the file source that most important and that file's suppliers efforts to ensure their repository is secure in order to protect their customers.
Is this view naive?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Docholiday on March 14, 2015, 10:21:56 am
It is exactly as tautech stated what is most important is the manufactures server where these files reside. This is the critical path for file security. Reliance of an embedded code is only a deterrent. To safely secure a file one would have to provide a form of encryption. The encryption process would have to be a two part encryption simular to what pgp encryption provides - public and private keys. This would be expensive for any manufacture to maintain, provide for their customers, and available globally. So it comes down to cost and the only viable solution is to embed a code into the file. Look at as a unique sticker that says "Made in America". When installing this software it will look into a data base more than likely on your computer to see if this software matches a code that is in that database. If not it will tell then display the file is not digitally signed. Some manufactures require you to have internet access not just to download the file but to check the digital signed process on their servers (two part process), that is a better form of file security. The database is part of your frequent security updates. It is a simple method to determine what is used by downloading the file than turn off your Wifi and start installing the file. If it installs successfuly that digital code is being read fron a database installed on you PC. If not it will tell you that it could not access or install because of no internet access.

This method of digitally signing a file has been around since the stone age! We use to call it checksum. So take all this with a grain of salt. Keep up with your OS security updates and OS and application updates too. Most importantly, virus and adware applications are updated too. Follwing these simple processes will minimize your exposure to viruses, adware, and malware. Only download/install files from  sources you know and trust. Google them if you are not sure.

For those curious I am a retired computer forensics expert with 25 years of experience and an expert witness in a court of law for ten years. Now working on career number two as a EE engineer.

Nicholas
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Rene on March 15, 2015, 07:07:55 pm
Perhaps we are talking about two different types of digital signature. The digital signature that I am talking about (The one that is used by the Windows operating system to guaranty that the downloaded file has not been tampered with) is nowhere near a simple checksum value (not even close).

To digitally sign a file, you must first get a code signing certificate from a trusted certificate authority and use that certificate to sign the file (this certificate consists of private and public keys). In order for someone to digitally sign a file on your behalf they must have the private key which they will not have. This type of digital file signature is not a mom and pops solution, it uses strong encryption and it is de facto standard (as far as I am aware of) to guaranty that nobody has tampered with the file.

A quick internet search yielded the following links describing the process:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_signature (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_signature)
https://www.comodo.com/resources/small-business/digital-certificates3.php (https://www.comodo.com/resources/small-business/digital-certificates3.php)

It is true that downloading files directly from the owner’s site is always better than downloading the file from some bogus site but it is still not a convincing way to guaranty that the file has not been tampered with.

Regarding the comment about the cost of obtaining and maintaining a digital signature certificate. This is not an issue at all. Obtaining a signing certificate is dirt cheap and signing a file is extremely simple, I know this for a fact. But no one has to believe me, just look it up and you will see.

The bottom line is that it is irresponsible for a company to take chances on customer security matters by not digitally signing their files (in Siglent case, they need to digitally sing their zip files). Sorry, don’t mean to sound rude but that is just a fact.

In any event, as someone else mentioned, I doubt that these guys could care less, this will become evident by the fact that Siglent will ignore this posts and pretend this is not an issue. Too bad becuase I do like Siglent stuff and I really wish they cared.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 15, 2015, 07:47:59 pm

The bottom line is that it is irresponsible for a company to take chances on customer security matters by not digitally signing their files (in Siglent case, they need to digitally sing their zip files). Sorry, don’t mean to sound rude but that is just a fact.

Siglent is not the only supplier of code that is not digitally signed, you must be well aware of this.

Quote
In any event, as someone else mentioned, I doubt that these guys could care less, this will become evident by the fact that Siglent will ignore this posts and pretend this is not an issue. Too bad becuase I do like Siglent stuff and I really wish they cared.

Really.....thats strong language.

The facts are SIGLENT are on this forum searching for any problems their customers are having ON A DAILY BASIS.

As the Siglent network (CN, EU & USA) is very engaged with this community along with others like myself, they offer almost 24/7 support for their products on EEVblog.

I understand your concerns and others no doubt do too, but point us to problems that have arisen as a result of unsigned files from Siglent.


If this was a REAL issue I'm sure it would have been addressed by now.
Siglent USA will be very aware of these general concerns and quite likely are working in the background to address this. I imagine unsigned files are not a concern in eastern markets like they are here, probably a hanging offence to tamper with files there.  :-DD


In relation to ignored posts, Siglent sees all posts but even for me some are difficult to understand.
Some are reported to Siglent and they come back here for more information from customers.
The language issue is sometimes a problem, but name me a Chinese company that doesn't have this problem.

All requests for help must be as clear and meaningful as possible to be fully understood.
 

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Docholiday on March 15, 2015, 08:00:53 pm
 :palm: tautech dont even bother any further with this issue. There are always going to be people that lack the ability for adaptive reasoning. If his belief that digitally signing a file is the right thing to do then so be it. If that gives the level comfort he/she is looking then that is his opinion and we as individuals have the option of not agreeing.

Dont fuel their 15 minutes of fame any more....

Nicholas
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 15, 2015, 08:12:39 pm
:palm: tautech dont even bother any further with this issue. There are always going to be people that lack the ability for adaptive reasoning. If his belief that digitally signing a file is the right thing to do then so be it. If that gives the level comfort he/she is looking then that is his opinion and we as individuals have the option of not agreeing.

Dont fuel their 15 minutes of fame any more....

Nicholas
@Docholiday
Thanks for your support but Rene is a valued customer and has every right for their concerns to be heard and discussed.

I may have risen to Rene's bait, but this topic might do well to be explored for all our interests.  :-//

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nctnico on March 15, 2015, 08:24:58 pm
IMHO Rene is just kicking up dust.
I agree with Docholiday: Keep the anti malware & virussoftware on your PC up to date and look where you download files from.

There is no way to ensure that even a signed file is really from the author if you don't check where you download it from. If you have malware on your PC which redirects a web request to a different server (this is really easy to do even with secure connections!) then you'll happily download a signed file from a malicious source.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Rene on March 15, 2015, 09:05:58 pm
Thanks for your support but Rene is a valued customer and has every right for their concerns to be heard and discussed.

I may have risen to Rene's bait, but this topic might do well to be explored for all our interests.  :-//

Thanks Tautech,

I am not going to deny that I probably went a little too far with my comments (probably uncalled for). I was aiming to get a reaction from Siglent since this is not the first time I have brought up the digital signature issue to their attention and they have ignored the issue before.

So lets play by the rules here and be fair. That said, here is my question for the Siglent folks:

Dear Siglent, could you guys please be so kind as to let your customers know the reason for why you don’t digitally sign your files?

Thanks.


:palm: tautech dont even bother any further with this issue. There are always going to be people that lack the ability for adaptive reasoning. If his belief that digitally signing a file is the right thing to do then so be it. If that gives the level comfort he/she is looking then that is his opinion and we as individuals have the option of not agreeing.

Dont fuel their 15 minutes of fame any more....

Nicholas

I am sorry you feel that way. I provided you with links that explain how digitally signature works, if you take a minute to read up on the technology you will find that a digitally signature is currently the most secure way for authors to protect the integrity of their files (this is no checksum). This is not my "belief", this is a fact.

For fun, you may also want to check out the requirements for developing apps for the iPhone, iPad, Android, Windows phone etc. You will soon find out that all require you to digitally sign your files. Care to find out the reason why?

That said, if you think I am an ignorant troll that knows nothing about digital signatures then fine, you can color me ignorant, no problem, in the mean time, why don’t you give Apple, Google, Microsoft etc a call and let them know that digitally signing files is an absolute waste of time and they need to stop the nonsense, see what they tell you.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Docholiday on March 15, 2015, 09:31:20 pm
I am going to end this now...

This not the platform to school you or anyone else about Information Security concepts and best practices. Do more research and you will find there are more than one method of digital signature processes. The biggest problem with digital signature technology (public & privtate method) is who holds and manages the private key. That is where the vulnerabilty is - lost keys, mis-managed keys, stolen keys and as someone pointed redirects. That is why (of many reasons) in the USA the government does not allow the use of legal documents to be signed digitally. Exept Connectictect but only between corporations. Again, this solution is only a deterent.

In closing this issue I realize after reading my previous responses. I may have been a little harsh in my response, as this was not my intention. I have issue with very short patience when statements are made in a haphazardly fashion. I guess its my 35 years total as a computer forensics expert.

Have a nice day! :-+
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: pickle9000 on March 15, 2015, 09:36:08 pm
It would be interesting if Siglent or Rigol, Hantek did more "field work". For example I don't see any Siglent scopes on Sigrok http://sigrok.org/wiki/Supported_hardware (http://sigrok.org/wiki/Supported_hardware).

Helping these guys out would be good P.R. and cost little. From a business standpoint it's like Apple, get them young (early school program) and keep them when they are older.   
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nctnico on March 15, 2015, 10:01:02 pm
How popular is Sigrok? It shouldn't be hard to create support for a particular instrument and yet only few instruments are supported.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: pickle9000 on March 15, 2015, 10:58:45 pm
How popular is Sigrok? It shouldn't be hard to create support for a particular instrument and yet only few instruments are supported.

I haven't seen any numbers on the user count. To be honest I don't use it much but have done some CAN decoding and it works just fine for that. For me the interesting bits are the protocol decoders but it has real potential overall.

http://sigrok.org/wiki/Protocol_decoders (http://sigrok.org/wiki/Protocol_decoders)

I'm certain it's used much more than people think. If you consider only the protocol decoding. These are things you pay real money for. If you are bidding / evaluating a job being able to use a free version of a particular protocol (like CAN) is a great benefit.



Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on March 16, 2015, 09:54:51 am
How popular is Sigrok? It shouldn't be hard to create support for a particular instrument and yet only few instruments are supported.

I haven't seen any numbers on the user count. To be honest I don't use it much but have done some CAN decoding and it works just fine for that. For me the interesting bits are the protocol decoders but it has real potential overall.

http://sigrok.org/wiki/Protocol_decoders (http://sigrok.org/wiki/Protocol_decoders)

I'm certain it's used much more than people think. If you consider only the protocol decoding. These are things you pay real money for. If you are bidding / evaluating a job being able to use a free version of a particular protocol (like CAN) is a great benefit.

How can our products be supported by sigrok? we are not familier with this organization.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nctnico on March 17, 2015, 02:01:00 am
Sigrok is an open source project so pull in the sources, add support for your products, push the changes back and wait for the changes to be included in the next release.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nctnico on March 17, 2015, 02:16:44 am
Hello!
new SDG1000 Firmware (1.01.01.37R2) has new menu !! - >> Bandwidth Update - >> Please input license to update bandwidth !
very interesting..... ;) ;)
There is also a DC output option and there is also a frequency counter menu. Suddenly the utility menu has 3 pages!
It is kinda nice new features get added to existing products.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: pickle9000 on March 17, 2015, 02:49:12 am
How popular is Sigrok? It shouldn't be hard to create support for a particular instrument and yet only few instruments are supported.

I haven't seen any numbers on the user count. To be honest I don't use it much but have done some CAN decoding and it works just fine for that. For me the interesting bits are the protocol decoders but it has real potential overall.

http://sigrok.org/wiki/Protocol_decoders (http://sigrok.org/wiki/Protocol_decoders)

I'm certain it's used much more than people think. If you consider only the protocol decoding. These are things you pay real money for. If you are bidding / evaluating a job being able to use a free version of a particular protocol (like CAN) is a great benefit.

How can our products be supported by sigrok? we are not familier with this organization.

Sigrok is a signal analysis software package. It's open source and free. The program works with around 140 devices at this point. This includes logic analyzers, DSO's multimeters, power supplies and so on. The package operates on Linux, Windows, Apples, Androids and some others. It has an excellent (and ever expanding) set of protocol decoders. It's a project that has been moving forward and is growing.

Reasons for helping out sigrok?

- Hantek and Rigol have supported hardware, so should you.
- Siglent has some older and low cost scopes that could benefit from the software features. Use on an Apple or Android platform for one. That is a platform you don't support.

   
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: vueltinguer on March 17, 2015, 12:06:05 pm
Hi, Siglent. Do you think future firmware updates of SDG5000 family will enable channel coupling function, if hardware supports it? Thanks  :-+
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on March 17, 2015, 01:52:44 pm
Hi, Siglent. Do you think future firmware updates of SDG5000 family will enable channel coupling function, if hardware supports it? Thanks  :-+

HW supports it. Also I hope Siglent add this function in some future FW.
Channel lock so that user can select what channel is master and then user can set offset frequency (including 0Hz offset of course) between channels and then slave channel follow master when user change master channel frequency.  Also so that user can set phase angle offset between channels and when channels are in this lock mode  it keeps phase offset when user change master channel frequency.

It is nice to see that after 4 yars Siglent still add new features to SDG1000 series. But, it is also important in SDG5000 series. (And I believe they do not have stopped developing it)

Language select after startup.  Personally I do not like it and I know many other who do not. (I can not understand who need this feature) Perhaps some school users?  Perhaps it is better to add some kind of "techers" power up when teacher can power up machine to some initial state after kids have played with it. Example push one button startup what delete all users settings and give also language select menu visible after this special "deep reset" startup.   (keep one key pressed during power up and it do this deep reset to state where it is as new unit or something like it)

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 17, 2015, 07:49:12 pm
It is nice to see that after 4 yars Siglent still add new features to SDG1000 series. But, it is also important in SDG5000 series. (And I believe they do not have stopped developing it)

Language select after startup.
 Personally I do not like it and I know many other who do not. (I can not understand who need this feature) Perhaps some school users?
 Perhaps it is better to add some kind of "techers" power up when teacher can power up machine to some initial state after kids have played with it.
Example push one button startup what delete all users settings and give also language select menu visible after this special "deep reset" startup.
(keep one key pressed during power up and it do this deep reset to state where it is as new unit or something like it)
+1
For all Siglent products that start with the Language option.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nctnico on March 17, 2015, 07:55:52 pm
Language select after startup.  Personally I do not like it and I know many other who do not. (I can not understand who need this feature)
It makes lots of sense to me. There are lots of people on this world who cannot understand any other language than they have learned from their parents. Even Europe is problematic! Try to see how far you get with English in France, Germany, Italy or Spain for example.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: vueltinguer on March 17, 2015, 08:04:29 pm
In Spain maybe a hundred meters...  :-[
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Rene on March 18, 2015, 02:07:01 am
IMHO Rene is just kicking up dust.
I agree with Docholiday: Keep the anti malware & virussoftware on your PC up to date and look where you download files from.

There is no way to ensure that even a signed file is really from the author if you don't check where you download it from. If you have malware on your PC which redirects a web request to a different server (this is really easy to do even with secure connections!) then you'll happily download a signed file from a malicious source.

I meant to post this earlier but I got lazy. Nevertheless, I wanted to address your post to help clarify some of your misconceptions.

Two of the main benefits that a modern digital signature provides are:


If you are using Windows OS, you can view the properties of a file (by right-clicking the file and selecting properties from the context menu). If the file has been digitally signed you will see a tab from where you can get more information about the digital signature (see Picture 1).
 
If you click on the Digital Signature tab, you will have aces to all kinds of information regarding the digital signature, but one piece of information that you will find relevant to your post is the digital signature certificate (see picture 2).
 
Looking at the digital signature certificate (Pciture2), you can be sure of two things:


So to address your comments: You are indeed able to verify that the file is from a certain author by looking at the certificate (with or without redirects). The reason why redirects are not an issue is because it does not matter if you download the file from a malicious website, as long as the file is digitally signed and the digital signature show that it has been published by the expected author, it means that the file is good (this is the whole point of a modern file digital signatures). Your comment about keeping your computer virus protection up to date is obviously valid, but having a digital signature that can prove the file comes from a trusted source is far more valuable and effective (IMHO).

Finally, all the concerns about private keys vulnerability (lost keys, mismanaged keys, stolen keys, etc) are valid but not realistic in most scenarios that matter. For a careless small time teenager digitally signing files from his or her garage computer this may an issue, but reputable corporations don’t take security lightly, you will have a very, very hard time getting anywhere near those certificates, and even if for some reason you were able to steal the digital signature certificates you would still not be able to use them because they are typically locked down with a strong password and they can be revoked at any time. I should also mentioned that if this was a big issue you should be shaking in your boots as we speak because all your banking transactions and online purchases (at one point or another) involve using the same technology used in digital signatures (asymmetric cryptography).

But do you know what the best part of a digital signature is? That if someone does not give a crap about them they can completely ignore them and move on with their lives. But for those of us who care, it is a very valuable feature.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: jobog on March 18, 2015, 03:33:10 am
Just want to add my comment on the language issue with the SDG1025.  I am the proud winner of Siglent's fourth giveaway and I received my generator 2 days ago.  Been having fun playing with it and I must say the user interface is very intuitive.  Have not read the manual yet but have been able to view most of the functions on my SDS1052DL,  Asking to choose a language everytime it boots up is very annoying.  I can see it asking the first time or maybe a few times but everytime is nuts.  Siglent please fix this.  I haven't had time to fully investigate everything with this generator but just a cursory look seems to show a lot of overshoot on the square wave.  I will investigate this further when I have the time.  So far my only complaint is the language issue.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 18, 2015, 04:27:43 am
You are indeed able to verify that the file is from a certain author by looking at the certificate (with or without redirects). The reason why redirects are not an issue is because it does not matter if you download the file from a malicious website, as long as the file is digitally signed and the digital signature show that it has been published by the expected author, it means that the file is good (this is the whole point of a modern file digital signatures). Your comment about keeping your computer virus protection up to date is obviously valid, but having a digital signature that can prove the file comes from a trusted source is far more valuable and effective (IMHO).
Thanks for your explanation of file signing, this was my general belief too.

You raise a side issue, the availability of files.
Siglent's files are now freely available, no need for them to be hosted by others, so if Siglent's repository is secure any risk is reduced although not eliminated.

We understand signing is the norm in the western world, and I'm quite sure Siglent is considering their response as we type.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 18, 2015, 04:34:41 am
I haven't had time to fully investigate everything with this generator but just a cursory look seems to show a lot of overshoot on the square wave.  I will investigate this further when I have the time.
Very likely the connection method you are using.
This is very important for faithfull reproduction of any fast rising edge.

Some reading for you on this matter from a recent thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/show-us-your-square-wave/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/show-us-your-square-wave/)

Many results posted are a result of improper connection methods, a good browse will show them up.  ;)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Docholiday on March 18, 2015, 05:06:03 am
Here in the western world no financial entity would in fact place their security for transactions in a signed digital file. Security for those types of transactions are handled by encryption and secure end to end connection from client to server. I can understand his searching the internet for facts but just like a commerical here in the USA. No one is allowed to publish anything on the Internet unless its true. Google that you gind that to be true. Again digital signatures are a deterent only and by US law they cannot be used for any legal transaction. Exception of corp to corp.

Repeat after me, Digital Signatures Are Used For Authentication Purposes!

Are you aware that you can edit the windows registry to tell it to ignore cert errors! Then load a patch program so you access the file change it.

God! I keep getting sucked into this! Tonite I am going to take my phd in mathematics, my two masters in computer science and cryptography and burn them..... :-DD

Ok, I am done and promise I will not reply anymore to this particular topic. I swear, really, I will not reply! I promise....It will not happen again...
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Tjuurko on March 18, 2015, 05:46:43 am
So far my only complaint is the language issue.
Utility -> 1/3 -> System -> PowerOn -> Last
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on March 18, 2015, 07:36:09 am
So far my only complaint is the language issue.
Utility -> 1/3 -> System -> PowerOn -> Last
Yes, you are right, once you have set the language and set 'poweron' to 'last', the language will be remembered. so just ignore the language selection while you boot up next time.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: vueltinguer on March 18, 2015, 08:34:32 am
Hi, Siglent. Do you think future firmware updates of SDG5000 family will enable channel coupling function, if hardware supports it? Thanks  :-+

Hi, Siglent, so we know HW can support this feature, it would be a great idea for the next update...
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Macbeth on March 18, 2015, 04:05:20 pm
Yes, you are right, once you have set the language and set 'poweron' to 'last', the language will be remembered. so just ignore the language selection while you boot up next time.
This doesn't work on my SDG1025, however it's a trivial issue to me.

Now the interesting thing with the new firmware is the ability to upgrade with a license key. Any news on this? Where would one obtain a key and what sort of price? Online keygen direct from Siglen, or going through old fashioned mail order resellers for a piece of paper?

Would hardware upgrades be required? IIRC the lower spec SDG1000 series don't come with a fan for example.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nctnico on March 18, 2015, 04:45:38 pm
IMHO Rene is just kicking up dust.
I agree with Docholiday: Keep the anti malware & virussoftware on your PC up to date and look where you download files from.

There is no way to ensure that even a signed file is really from the author if you don't check where you download it from. If you have malware on your PC which redirects a web request to a different server (this is really easy to do even with secure connections!) then you'll happily download a signed file from a malicious source.

I meant to post this earlier but I got lazy. Nevertheless, I wanted to address your post to help clarify some of your misconceptions.

But do you know what the best part of a digital signature is? That if someone does not give a crap about them they can completely ignore them and move on with their lives. But for those of us who care, it is a very valuable feature.

Cheers.
Well, don't take my word for it:
https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2010/06/23/trojbhoqp-verisign/

Conclusion from the article:
But regardless of the would-be victims, this technique, in addition to the fraudulent SSL certificate abuse we have already seen, serves as another reminder that the mere pressence of a digital signature does not mean that something is legitimate.

If you read the article closely you'll see that the malware actually looks to be 'more genuine' than the original software!
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: f1rmb on March 18, 2015, 04:48:30 pm
Yes, you are right, once you have set the language and set 'poweron' to 'last', the language will be remembered. so just ignore the language selection while you boot up next time.
This doesn't work on my SDG1025, however it's a trivial issue to me.
...

I also confirm that doesn't work on my SDG1025.

Cheers.
---
Daniel
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: jobog on March 18, 2015, 06:27:44 pm
Yes, you are right, once you have set the language and set 'poweron' to 'last', the language will be remembered. so just ignore the language selection while you boot up next time.
This doesn't work on my SDG1025, however it's a trivial issue to me.
...

I also confirm that doesn't work on my SDG1025.

Cheers.
---
Daniel

Doesn't work on mine either, that's the cause for my complaint.  I know you can just hit any button or twist the knob and this screen goes away but it shouldn't be there in the first place.  Like I said, an annoyance but I really like the generator and I couldn't beat the price.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Rene on March 18, 2015, 06:29:51 pm
Conclusion from the article:
But regardless of the would-be victims, this technique, in addition to the fraudulent SSL certificate abuse we have already seen, serves as another reminder that the mere pressence of a digital signature does not mean that something is legitimate.

If you read the article closely you'll see that the malware actually looks to be 'more genuine' than the original software!

I think we all agree that no security feature is perfect. The idea here is that a digital signature is great value added that is welcomed by many (there are no harmful side effects).

I am no security expert, I am simply an observer. I see all major corporations (Microsoft, Google, Apple, Oracle, Amazon etc) digitally singing every file they distribute. I am pretty sure that such major corporations do that for a reason since they have all kind of security experts pushing the issue and they wouldn’t be wasting valuable resource if digitally signing files was a pointless endeavor.

I think is about time we stop debating this topic here, I am convinced that Siglent has very bright and capable employees capable of making an educated decisions on what to do. Let’s wait and let them decide how they will move forward.

Thanks.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on March 20, 2015, 05:50:12 am
Hi, Siglent. Do you think future firmware updates of SDG5000 family will enable channel coupling function, if hardware supports it? Thanks  :-+

Hi, Siglent, so we know HW can support this feature, it would be a great idea for the next update...
thank you very much, We will carefully consider your comments.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: vueltinguer on March 21, 2015, 07:03:34 pm
Ok, thanks! My new SDG5082 will arrive next Monday.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: mikro on March 28, 2015, 04:27:45 pm
I updated my SDS1102CML firmware with the version 5.01.02.29. I used the link couple pages back. In the guide provided it says to load a .CFG file. The zip package dont have it. Where I can find it?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 28, 2015, 07:46:11 pm
I updated my SDS1102CML firmware with the version 5.01.02.29. I used the link couple pages back. In the guide provided it says to load a .CFG file. The zip package dont have it. Where I can find it?
In my experience a .cfg file has only been included when needed.
Those that I have encountered have modified the startup splash screen.

You should be safe to upgrade without it, but if you wait a day or so we can get Siglent to confirm it is not needed for this update.

In the meanwhile I'll update one I have in stock to check for you and report back.

Edit
There was NO problem with this update and it seems not to need a cfg file as explained above.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: mikro on March 28, 2015, 08:15:51 pm
I updated my SDS1102CML firmware with the version 5.01.02.29. I used the link couple pages back. In the guide provided it says to load a .CFG file. The zip package dont have it. Where I can find it?
In my experience a .cfg file has only been included when needed.
Those that I have encountered have modified the startup splash screen.

You should be safe to upgrade without it, but if you wait a day or so we can get Siglent to confirm it is not needed for this update.

In the meanwhile I'll update one I have in stock to check for you and report back.

Edit
There was NO problem with this update and it seems not to need a cfg file as explained above.

Thank you, tautech. That is what i suspected as it did work after the upgrade, but I needed a confirmation.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: FlashBack on April 01, 2015, 09:03:00 am
Hi.

My friend got a problem with his SDS1072CML during firmware update, after restart all leds on and no life signs...
I read dump from S29F064 flash from my oscilloscope for him, but anyway same, looks a problem is that my board is CA_M_101000 and his one is CA_M_110300, looks they are not compatible :(

Maybe somebody has dump of S29F064 chip for 110300 board?

With thanks
Grigor
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on April 01, 2015, 09:21:15 am
Hi.

My friend got a problem with his SDS1072CML during firmware update, after restart all leds on and no life signs...
I read dump from S29F064 flash from my oscilloscope for him, but anyway same, looks a problem is that my board is CA_M_101000 and his one is CA_M_110300, looks they are not compatible :(

Maybe somebody has dump of S29F064 chip for 110300 board?

With thanks
Grigor
Are you sure? which firmware cause this problem?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: FlashBack on April 01, 2015, 09:47:16 am
he flashed SDS1000CML_SSP_V100R005B01D02P22.ADS
mine is SDS1000CNL_SSP_V100R005B01D02P13.ADS.

No one works on his board :( But before flashing his one worked.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on April 02, 2015, 10:41:55 am
Hi.

My friend got a problem with his SDS1072CML during firmware update, after restart all leds on and no life signs...
I read dump from S29F064 flash from my oscilloscope for him, but anyway same, looks a problem is that my board is CA_M_101000 and his one is CA_M_110300, looks they are not compatible :(

Maybe somebody has dump of S29F064 chip for 110300 board?

With thanks
Grigor


he flashed SDS1000CML_SSP_V100R005B01D02P22.ADS
mine is SDS1000CNL_SSP_V100R005B01D02P13.ADS.

No one works on his board :( But before flashing his one worked.

You have SDS????CNL and with ancient crap FW version P13 and dumped its flash and moved it to SDS1072CML and then you wonder because equipment is "dead".

More strange is that current FW version numbers (for both, CNL and CML) are  5.01.02.29  (not 22 and not 13) so I wonder what is going on here.  And inside flash memory these FW are really different even with same displayed version numbers (due to differencies in HW)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: FlashBack on April 02, 2015, 02:30:41 pm
Hi.

My friend got a problem with his SDS1072CML during firmware update, after restart all leds on and no life signs...
I read dump from S29F064 flash from my oscilloscope for him, but anyway same, looks a problem is that my board is CA_M_101000 and his one is CA_M_110300, looks they are not compatible :(

Maybe somebody has dump of S29F064 chip for 110300 board?

With thanks
Grigor


he flashed SDS1000CML_SSP_V100R005B01D02P22.ADS
mine is SDS1000CNL_SSP_V100R005B01D02P13.ADS.

No one works on his board :( But before flashing his one worked.

You have SDS????CNL and with ancient crap FW version P13 and dumped its flash and moved it to SDS1072CML and then you wonder because equipment is "dead".

More strange is that current FW version numbers (for both, CNL and CML) are  5.01.02.29  (not 22 and not 13) so I wonder what is going on here.  And inside flash memory these FW are really different even with same displayed version numbers (due to differencies in HW)

I saw CML oscilloscope with 101000 board(atten 1062CNL, but flashed with siglent firmware as boards are same). That's why I decided to offer my friend to flash his 110300 board with dump from mine, as it allready was dead and nothing to loose.  About versions - yes, 29 is last one, mine one I flashed 1 year before and 13 was the most common board for my board (and it works fine ) and 22 was the most last version before 29 was released. Don't know why friend choosed it to flash.
So the question is if somebody have a full dump of 110300 board flash ? I will be very thank for dump as really want to help my friend with that problem.  Or maybe Siglent specialist can sell flash chip with correct firmware in it ?
Or at last maybe he can sell whole board (110300) ?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on April 02, 2015, 05:42:12 pm
The PCB HW version, if not printed on the PCB (should be) can be identified by Siglent with the units Serial number. Post up the SN minus the last 2 digits.
You'll probably only get one through a Siglent distributor though.

@FlashBack
Please put your country flag in your profile for local recommendations.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on April 02, 2015, 06:32:00 pm
It is true.
here is all the latest firmware link
SDG1000 series
http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SDG1000-V100R001B01D01P37R2.zip (http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SDG1000-V100R001B01D01P37R2.zip)
http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG1000-V100R001B01D01P37R2.zip (http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG1000-V100R001B01D01P37R2.zip)
SDG5000 series
http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SDG5000-V500R001B01D01P12.zip (http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SDG5000-V500R001B01D01P12.zip)
http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG5000-V500R001B01D01P12.zip (http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG5000-V500R001B01D01P12.zip)
SDS1000CFL
http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SDS1000CFL_2CH_SSP_V100R005B08D02P38.zip (http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SDS1000CFL_2CH_SSP_V100R005B08D02P38.zip)
http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SDS1000CFL_4CH_SSP_V100R005B03D02P38.zip (http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SDS1000CFL_4CH_SSP_V100R005B03D02P38.zip)
http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS1000CFL_2CH_SSP_V100R005B08D02P38.zip (http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS1000CFL_2CH_SSP_V100R005B08D02P38.zip)
http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS1000CFL_4CH_SSP_V100R005B03D02P38.zip (http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS1000CFL_4CH_SSP_V100R005B03D02P38.zip)
SDS1000CML/CNL(except SDS1202CNL+)
http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS1000CML_SSP_V100R005B01D02P29.zip (http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS1000CML_SSP_V100R005B01D02P29.zip)
http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SDS1000CML_SSP_V100R005B01D02P29.zip (http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SDS1000CML_SSP_V100R005B01D02P29.zip)
SHS1000/800
http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SHS820_V100R003B01D02P02R2.zip (http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SHS820_V100R003B01D02P02R2.zip)
http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SHS1000_V100R003B01D02P02R2.zip (http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SHS1000_V100R003B01D02P02R2.zip)
http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SHS820_V100R003B01D02P02R2.zip (http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SHS820_V100R003B01D02P02R2.zip)
http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SHS1000_V100R003B01D02P02R2.zip (http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SHS1000_V100R003B01D02P02R2.zip)
Steve (USA) and Jade (China) can we have all these links copied to the very first post in this thread and updated as new FW is released.
Then FW will be EASY to find for newbies discovering this thread.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on April 02, 2015, 07:10:50 pm
Hello, Tautech.

Since I cannot log onto Jade's account I have asked him to add those links to his original post.

Thanks for the suggestion.
Steve
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: FlashBack on April 02, 2015, 08:14:50 pm
The PCB HW version, if not printed on the PCB (should be) can be identified by Siglent with the units Serial number. Post up the SN minus the last 2 digits.
You'll probably only get one through a Siglent distributor though.

@FlashBack
Please put your country flag in your profile for local recommendations.

My friend is currently offline, later will contact him to confirm serial number.
But early he send me numbers ;  CA_M_110300 / SAT7.820.681K
I thought 110300 is board version.... But if not - then think second is right ?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on April 03, 2015, 02:07:13 am
The PCB HW version, if not printed on the PCB (should be) can be identified by Siglent with the units Serial number. Post up the SN minus the last 2 digits.
You'll probably only get one through a Siglent distributor though.

@FlashBack
Please put your country flag in your profile for local recommendations.

My friend is currently offline, later will contact him to confirm serial number.
But early he send me numbers ;  CA_M_110300 / SAT7.820.681K
I thought 110300 is board version.... But if not - then think second is right ?
SAT7.820.681K  is the board version.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: FlashBack on April 03, 2015, 09:00:48 am
SAT7.820.681K  is the board version.

Ok. So here is also serial SDS000031334** .
Now can anybody help ? Need dump readed or programmer to unbrick...
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on April 03, 2015, 09:37:37 am
SAT7.820.681K  is the board version.

Ok. So here is also serial SDS000031334** .
Now can anybody help ? Need dump readed or programmer to unbrick...
Manufacturered March 2013. Siglent products have a 3 year warranty.
Contact your local distributor.

Siglent USA will be on later today, but China likely won't see this until Monday.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: FlashBack on April 03, 2015, 09:46:50 am
I see that itstill has waranty by time, but there are few problems.
1. My friend already disassembled it and flashed with programmed if using programmer to check different dumps.
2. He is located in russia, quite far from moscow.

So that's why he asked me to help him (as he is fluent in english) to find firmware, as has all necessary equipment to flash it if will get correct dump.

Thanks for understanding.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on April 07, 2015, 08:56:59 am
Are you sure it is a Siglent Product?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: sotos on April 07, 2015, 03:32:33 pm
I see that itstill has waranty by time, but there are few problems.
1. My friend already disassembled it and flashed with programmed if using programmer to check different dumps.
2. He is located in russia, quite far from moscow.

So that's why he asked me to help him (as he is fluent in english) to find firmware, as has all necessary equipment to flash it if will get correct dump.

Thanks for understanding.

Can you send some pictures.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ion54 on April 07, 2015, 10:50:49 pm
Anyone updated their firmware on SDS1102CML with the version posted on March 13, 2015 (page 26)? Any information about what it improves/fixes?
The number of the version makes me suspicious as I have tried version XXXXX.29 from Teledyne LeCroy WaveAce and that one has a bug that makes the left side of the screen jitter left and right on some time base settings (around 1 ms).  That version has been released at the end of January this year and it still shows as the latest on LeCroy's web page.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on April 09, 2015, 10:22:05 am
I see that itstill has waranty by time, but there are few problems.
1. My friend already disassembled it and flashed with programmed if using programmer to check different dumps.
2. He is located in russia, quite far from moscow.

So that's why he asked me to help him (as he is fluent in english) to find firmware, as has all necessary equipment to flash it if will get correct dump.

Thanks for understanding.
please give me your or your friend's e-mail. we need to solve it as soon as possible.
please send a e-mail to me and I will send you a tool. jade.wan@siglent.com
also, please let me know the brand and model.
even with the same hardware,we will differ the software.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: sotos on April 09, 2015, 10:47:37 am
I see that itstill has waranty by time, but there are few problems.
1. My friend already disassembled it and flashed with programmed if using programmer to check different dumps.
2. He is located in russia, quite far from moscow.

So that's why he asked me to help him (as he is fluent in english) to find firmware, as has all necessary equipment to flash it if will get correct dump.

Thanks for understanding.
please give me your or your friend's e-mail. we need to solve it as soon as possible.
please send a e-mail to me and I will send you a tool. jade.wan@siglent.com
also, please let me know the brand and model.
even with the same hardware,we will differ the software.


Extremely fast and good service.   :-+
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on April 09, 2015, 12:30:50 pm
Anyone updated their firmware on SDS1102CML with the version posted on March 13, 2015 (page 26)? Any information about what it improves/fixes?
The number of the version makes me suspicious as I have tried version XXXXX.29 from Teledyne LeCroy WaveAce and that one has a bug that makes the left side of the screen jitter left and right on some time base settings (around 1 ms).  That version has been released at the end of January this year and it still shows as the latest on LeCroy's web page.

I do not know if this is same bug because I do not exactly understand this quoted text.

But.

I have regognized one issue (least in last .29  Siglent FW for CML models.

If signal have fast enough high edge, no problem.
But if signal is example sine wave and if LongMemory selected and if timebase is more slow than 100us/s there is very bad trigger positiuon/jitter problem. I have not seen this never before.
If example I set 250us/div and example 1kHz sinewave p-p 6 division. Trigger edge, rising and middle of signal vertical level. Trigger looks ok if normal memory. Trigger fails if LongMemory. If I change signal to square wave. Normal memory and LongMemory and all is ok.
If I select what ever signal where rising edge is slow, example ramp or sine etc Trigger fails with LongMemory but works with Normal memory.
100us/div or faster it works normally with all settings and signals.

What happend with trigger stability iand position in new FW with slower than 100us/div specially if Long Memory selected?

I hope Siglent do immediately FW repair patch for this trigger issue what is really fatal class bug. (and do also something for this language select pop up in every startup)  Do it so that if power up with what ever one front panel button down it start from real factory new state including language select pop-up window. More deep default than it do with default button what still leave some user selections untouched)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: timofonic on April 09, 2015, 09:02:26 pm
How popular is Sigrok? It shouldn't be hard to create support for a particular instrument and yet only few instruments are supported.

I haven't seen any numbers on the user count. To be honest I don't use it much but have done some CAN decoding and it works just fine for that. For me the interesting bits are the protocol decoders but it has real potential overall.

http://sigrok.org/wiki/Protocol_decoders (http://sigrok.org/wiki/Protocol_decoders)

I'm certain it's used much more than people think. If you consider only the protocol decoding. These are things you pay real money for. If you are bidding / evaluating a job being able to use a free version of a particular protocol (like CAN) is a great benefit.

How can our products be supported by sigrok? we are not familier with this organization.


They are an Open Source project and even have an IRC chat ( #sigrok at irc.freenode.net). You can contact their developers and contribute patches or even be contributors, this last one would be positive for both your company and them.

It's not a formal organization, check their website.

http://sigrok.org (http://sigrok.org)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: illyesgeza on April 14, 2015, 11:42:06 am
I'd like to thanks Siglent that they solved the WAVEFORM command in LONGMEM mode on SDS1102CML
Unforunately there is stil a big problem

Because there is only one (DOCUMENTED !) command for download the data from the scope:
      WAVEFORM? or WF? (the short format).
The channel is selected by C1: or C2: prefix.
The optional parameters are DESC, TEXT, TIME, DAT1, DAT2, ALL
ALL is the default.
Example:
C1:WF? ALL
This mean you want to download the data from channel 1; the Template(DESC) plus the data.
If you initiate the above command like this you will get the data but you can't know when the trigger was.
So, for a normal download you must use some extra commands before the WF?
ARM;WAIT;C1:WF?
or
*TRG;WAIT;C1:WF?
Siglent say the ARM and *TRG is the same.
The WAIT command means the scope will wait until a trigger apears.
If you use WAIT 2.5 for example the scope will wait for two and a half seconds for the trigger.
If it does not apear in this interval the scope will enter in the acquire sequnce (forced trigger).
So far so good.
But what is if you want to download the data from both channels?
You will use of course ARM;WAIT;C1:WF? for channel 1
And C2:WF? for the second channel.
You can't use ARM;WAIT;C1:WF?;C2:WF? because the two WF? commands can't use the same buffer.
The big problem is that the firmware can't anticipate what would you do after the first WF? command.
So after the C1:WF? ends the scope exit from ARM state and begin a new acquizition on both channels.
When you initiate the C2:WF? command you will got some random data from channel 2.
In my opinion the the best soulution is to implement a new command which inform the firmware that you
want to download the data from both channels after an UNIQUE trigger.
Important remark!!!!
I'v used ARM;WAIT;STOP;C1:WF?
         C2:WF?;RUN
The STOP was for stop the acquizition after the trigger.
This is a stupid solution because you will get only a few bytes after the trigger.

I'd like to ask Siglent to solve this problem in a new firmware version

At last I have one question
Can Siglent document WFSU TYPE,1 command (WAVEFORM_SETUP)
I saw that this command is used by EasyScopeX
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on April 17, 2015, 03:48:42 am
Dear illyesgeza,
Sorry for the SCPI command problem, we will fix it as soon as possible.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on April 21, 2015, 08:23:10 am
Hi guys,
We just released some Labview drivers for Siglent Products, please download them here http://siglentamerica.com/support_software_204 (http://siglentamerica.com/support_software_204)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: timofonic on April 21, 2015, 12:52:53 pm
Hi guys,
We just released some Labview drivers for Siglent Products, please download them here http://siglentamerica.com/support_software_204 (http://siglentamerica.com/support_software_204)

Did you contact with the Sigrok project? They're waiting a reply from your company, but no response since some time ago. If you're interested, you could contact over IRC at #sigrok on irc.freenode.net or check their email on their website.


I'm not going to annoy you with this, but you showed interest about your products getting Sigrok support.

PS: I'm not part of Sigrok development team.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on April 22, 2015, 02:11:45 pm
Thanks for you reminding.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: timofonic on April 23, 2015, 07:49:18 pm
Thanks for you reminding.

You're very welcome!

You don't need an IRC client to chat with their community,  just use their web
https://webchat.freenode.net

Channel name is #sigrok

Don't forget the # as is a typical prefix of IRC channels.

There will be users and developers, it's typical in Open Source projects. Keep in mind the hour differences and be patient to get replies.

You can also subscribe to the developer mailing list and write them a detailed proposition about your company proposal to collaborate.

https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/sigrok-devel

As an electronics student and open source enthusiast, support of Siglent projects would make them more attractive to me.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Neon on May 24, 2015, 10:20:31 am
It is true.
here is all the latest firmware link
SDG1000 series
http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SDG1000-V100R001B01D01P37R2.zip (http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SDG1000-V100R001B01D01P37R2.zip)
http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG1000-V100R001B01D01P37R2.zip (http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG1000-V100R001B01D01P37R2.zip)
SDG5000 series
http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SDG5000-V500R001B01D01P12.zip (http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SDG5000-V500R001B01D01P12.zip)
http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG5000-V500R001B01D01P12.zip (http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG5000-V500R001B01D01P12.zip)
SDS1000CFL
http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SDS1000CFL_2CH_SSP_V100R005B08D02P38.zip (http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SDS1000CFL_2CH_SSP_V100R005B08D02P38.zip)
http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SDS1000CFL_4CH_SSP_V100R005B03D02P38.zip (http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SDS1000CFL_4CH_SSP_V100R005B03D02P38.zip)
http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS1000CFL_2CH_SSP_V100R005B08D02P38.zip (http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS1000CFL_2CH_SSP_V100R005B08D02P38.zip)
http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS1000CFL_4CH_SSP_V100R005B03D02P38.zip (http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS1000CFL_4CH_SSP_V100R005B03D02P38.zip)
SDS1000CML/CNL(except SDS1202CNL+)
http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS1000CML_SSP_V100R005B01D02P29.zip (http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS1000CML_SSP_V100R005B01D02P29.zip)
http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SDS1000CML_SSP_V100R005B01D02P29.zip (http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SDS1000CML_SSP_V100R005B01D02P29.zip)
SHS1000/800
http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SHS820_V100R003B01D02P02R2.zip (http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SHS820_V100R003B01D02P02R2.zip)
http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SHS1000_V100R003B01D02P02R2.zip (http://siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SHS1000_V100R003B01D02P02R2.zip)
http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SHS820_V100R003B01D02P02R2.zip (http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SHS820_V100R003B01D02P02R2.zip)
http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SHS1000_V100R003B01D02P02R2.zip (http://www.siglent.com/2014EnglishWebsite/Firmware&Software/Firmware/SHS1000_V100R003B01D02P02R2.zip)
Steve (USA) and Jade (China) can we have all these links copied to the very first post in this thread and updated as new FW is released.
Then FW will be EASY to find for newbies discovering this thread.

Hi.
Why when try download the file for CNL SDS1000CNL_Update   Current Version: 5.01.02.29 | Published?2015-03-10

http://www.siglent.com/ENs/gjjrj.aspx?id=15 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/gjjrj.aspx?id=15)

the file downloaded is SDS1000CML_SSP_V100R005B01D02P29.ADS ?

Is the same file firmware for the CNL CML  models ?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on May 24, 2015, 10:27:22 am
Hi Neon
Yes same FW for these two SDS1000 series.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Neon on May 24, 2015, 10:31:05 am
Hi Neon
Yes same FW for these two SDS1000 series.

Thank you very much for your reply.

Regards.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: timofonic on May 27, 2015, 09:53:00 pm
Thanks for you reminding.

You're very welcome!

You don't need an IRC client to chat with their community,  just use their web
https://webchat.freenode.net

Channel name is #sigrok

Don't forget the # as is a typical prefix of IRC channels.

There will be users and developers, it's typical in Open Source projects. Keep in mind the hour differences and be patient to get replies.

You can also subscribe to the developer mailing list and write them a detailed proposition about your company proposal to collaborate.

https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/sigrok-devel

As an electronics student and open source enthusiast, support of Siglent projects would make them more attractive to me.

@Siglent

I'm sure you are all busy, this is just a reminder. I'm aware Sigrok Team haven't been contacted yet.

Any plans for it?

I don't want to sound rude, I just would love Sigrok support would improve from official support of a manufacturer. This is a great Open Source tool.

Regards.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Armxnian on May 28, 2015, 06:41:29 am
Hi Siglent,

Would it be possible to increase the display update rate of the SDM3055, or give users the option to do it? Currently, there isn't much difference in "slow", "middle", or "fast". The data sheet states that the options sample at 5, 50, or 150 times per second. This is useful if logging and viewing the file after. Also, since middle and fast drop a digit of resolution, they seem to auto range and display a new value faster. But, the display update rate doesn't seem to change much, if at all. So while the log of values might allow you to see fast changing values, you can't see them in real time. The display, even on fast mode, seems to update 1 time per second, even though it has captured 150 values. I think it should be possible to update the display at 10 times per second for example, and average 15 captured readings into 1. Therefore, you get 1 average of 15 readings every 100ms on the display, and 150 captures averaged into 10 readings every second.

I have attached a csv (unzip with 7z or alternative, windows doesn't work for some reason) file showing the power of 150 samples/s. I programmed my DP832 to sweep from 0v to 2v in 2000 steps. The DP832 seems to be able to change 100 steps (100millivolts) in 1 second, so the meter sometimes captures the same value twice since it samples at 150/s. Why waste the speed of the ADC by limiting the display update? If you want a more stable reading, then you will use the "slow" mode by default anyway since it gives you the full 5 and 1/2 digits. You can also do something creative with the "middle" option, like give it 5 screen updates per second. Currently it's kind of useless, since it's slower than the "fast" option, but still loses a digit of resolution.

Regarding the problem that the meter doesn't save the UI settings on reboot, I looked into the xml file that you can create to save settings. Even when setting the meter to boot to "last", the xml file still shows "factory default" in the power up field. Maybe the power on "last" feature does work correctly, but the meter just doesn't set the parameter correctly. I tried editing the xml file by putting "last" in the field and recalling it in the meter but it didn't do anything. I also can't copy the edited file to the internal storage since the built in file manager doesn't allow it. I also tried recalling the edited file, and creating a new one in internal storage with the settings, but that didn't solve the issue either.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on June 04, 2015, 09:12:26 am
Welcome to the forum.

You will find the answers in this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ds1102cnl-dso/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ds1102cnl-dso/)

BUT you will void your 3 year warranty.  :--
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on June 04, 2015, 09:39:41 am
Yes, you have a good mature and stable scope, time proven.  ;)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on July 09, 2015, 08:48:09 pm
Lastest SDS1000 CNL/CML FW update.

Summary of Changes:
1.added bandwidth update option
2.fixed some bugs(including trigger jitter problem.
If use LongMemory and if timebase is 250us/div or less there is a jitter. If change to Normal memory no problem, if switch to Long Memory it appears.)


http://siglentamerica.com/download/software/SDS1000CML_SSP_V100R005B01D02P32.rar (http://siglentamerica.com/download/software/SDS1000CML_SSP_V100R005B01D02P32.rar)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: timofonic on July 09, 2015, 10:29:31 pm
No replies from "Siglent" :/
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Macbeth on July 10, 2015, 08:38:11 am
No replies from "Siglent" :/
Seriously, I don't understand why you keep on at this. Sigrok is open source so the community can write code for it. Siglent have done all that is needed to enable this - they have published the SCPI protocol and even have LabVIEW drivers which can easily be examined with a trial version of LabVIEW - it's all out in the open.

Anyone can now make a Sigrok driver. Just find the code for another function gen in Sigrok that has been implemented using SCPI and modify it to suit. Surely it's that easy?  :-//

Why not give it a go?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: timofonic on July 11, 2015, 01:32:35 am
No replies from "Siglent" :/
Seriously, I don't understand why you keep on at this. Sigrok is open source so the community can write code for it. Siglent have done all that is needed to enable this - they have published the SCPI protocol and even have LabVIEW drivers which can easily be examined with a trial version of LabVIEW - it's all out in the open.

Anyone can now make a Sigrok driver. Just find the code for another function gen in Sigrok that has been implemented using SCPI and modify it to suit. Surely it's that easy?  :-//

Why not give it a go?

Sigrok developers use their free time to maintain the project, they aren't paid for it.

They don't care about their product enough to submit a patch. That makes their products not attractive at all and just keeps perpetuate the "chinese products are crap" stereotype. Why do others need to work for them? Sigrok adds value to their products.

I prefer to buy products with companies friendly to my OS and Open Source, not needing reverse engineering or extra efforts. That's why I agree on "Fuck you, Nvidia".

Sigrok needs more developers, they are currently too busy and lack of sponsorship. They are tired of lazy manufacturers with kind words and zero support.

I'm not a developer, just an electronics student.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Macbeth on July 11, 2015, 12:28:50 pm
Sigrok developers use their free time to maintain the project, they aren't paid for it.

They don't care about their product enough to submit a patch. That makes their products not attractive at all and just keeps perpetuate the "chinese products are crap" stereotype. Why do others need to work for them? Sigrok adds value to their products.

I prefer to buy products with companies friendly to my OS and Open Source, not needing reverse engineering or extra efforts.
Can you please show me the other manufacturers who are writing drivers for Sigrok? Specifically the function generators. After all you obviously think the Siglent SDG is chinese crap and have another model in mind, say Agilent, Rhode & Schwarz or something pretending to be none chinese. Can you show me the Sigrok drivers they have developed?

From what I can see the Siglent is one of the two function gens that the Sigrok team are planning to support, the other being a Hantek. They can do this precisely because there is no need to reverse engineer the SDG or proprietary Windows drivers. It's all out in the open. You can switch your SDG into USB-TMC mode, linux includes usbtmc in the kernel.

Now, my Hantek MSO5102D oscilloscope on the other hand - that is crappy closed source proprietary shite. Thankfully due to the sterling efforts of tinhead the reverse engineering has been done - and most of the details are there for someone to pick up the can and add the layer needed for Sigrok. There is a case for this as the MSO has a logic analyzer in it which badly needs a PC front end as the one on the scope is crap.

You say you are not a developer, so what do you plan to do with Sigrok when you have this driver? As far as I am aware the only front-end available for it is PulseView for logic analyzers. A universal function generator front end needs to be developed too.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: timofonic on July 11, 2015, 02:53:08 pm
Sigrok developers use their free time to maintain the project, they aren't paid for it.

They don't care about their product enough to submit a patch. That makes their products not attractive at all and just keeps perpetuate the "chinese products are crap" stereotype. Why do others need to work for them? Sigrok adds value to their products.

I prefer to buy products with companies friendly to my OS and Open Source, not needing reverse engineering or extra efforts.
Can you please show me the other manufacturers who are writing drivers for Sigrok? Specifically the function generators. After all you obviously think the Siglent SDG is chinese crap and have another model in mind, say Agilent, Rhode & Schwarz or something pretending to be none chinese. Can you show me the Sigrok drivers they have developed?

From what I can see the Siglent is one of the two function gens that the Sigrok team are planning to support, the other being a Hantek. They can do this precisely because there is no need to reverse engineer the SDG or proprietary Windows drivers. It's all out in the open. You can switch your SDG into USB-TMC mode, linux includes usbtmc in the kernel.

Now, my Hantek MSO5102D oscilloscope on the other hand - that is crappy closed source proprietary shite. Thankfully due to the sterling efforts of tinhead the reverse engineering has been done - and most of the details are there for someone to pick up the can and add the layer needed for Sigrok. There is a case for this as the MSO has a logic analyzer in it which badly needs a PC front end as the one on the scope is crap.

You say you are not a developer, so what do you plan to do with Sigrok when you have this driver? As far as I am aware the only front-end available for it is PulseView for logic analyzers. A universal function generator front end needs to be developed too.

I consider 99.9999% electronics products to be crap in too many aspects. Propietary protocols, no hackability (I want be able to modify the hardware and software in ALL aspects, no walled gardens), bad quality, overpriced, difficulties repairing them and tons of more issues.

Because others ignore us, we consider specs good enough. But that's not sustainable in the FOSS ecosystem. That lack of community involvement from the interested parties is the reason projects get half-baked because no enough feedback and finally die.

Siglent attitude is hypocritically polite. They showed fake interest in the project and said to participate this forum, but they vanished and ignored us. They lost their credibility with that lack of seriousness, showing no responsibility nor compromise.

Do they want advertising? Pay for it. If they want to really get community involved, demonstrate it!

Yes, there's too much pending work in Open Source electronics tools. Even EdaCore looked very promising, but the project got very stalled and not sure about EvanFoss motivation.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on July 11, 2015, 09:36:08 pm
Siglent attitude is hypocritically polite. They showed fake interest in the project and said to participate this forum, but they vanished and ignored us. They lost their credibility with that lack of seriousness, showing no responsibility nor compromise.

Do they want advertising? Pay for it. If they want to really get community involved, demonstrate it!
Absolute  :bullshit:
If you wamt a scrap, you are heading in the right direction.   :box:

You must have blinkers on or are very one eyed.  :palm:

Have a look at their website to see the regular EE shows they participate in all over the world.
Siglent pay for advertising on the EEVblog main site and have done so for years.
You obviously have had little to do with the Chinese so wouldn't know how polite and humble people they are.
They were recently asked for product support in Labview and now their products are.  :-+
The fact that both Siglent and Siglent America are on this forum regularly must have escaped you, check their profiles for last time on line if you don't believe me.
I have no idea if Siglent is investigating Sigrock , but if they are, you won't know until support is announced. Jade (Siglent) is only one person in a team that has to take on suggestions and deliver them to the team for consideration and development. This takes real time, do you think Sigrock is the ONLY thing they have to consider.
Remember China is a very different culture and while English in a compulsory language for the young it is not used in mainstream employment, so there is hesitance in its use in a WW forum.

So pull your head in, breathe through your nose and have some  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rodelco54 on August 15, 2015, 09:13:15 pm
Hello, I am new to this forum, and pretty new to blogs in general, so please forgive my ignorance.  I am a retired engineer (mostly Visual Basic software for Test Equipment), and I am thinking of playing around with some embedded processors, single board computers, and such as a hobby.  I have been looking for an entry level oscilloscope, which is how I found this forum.  The amount of information here is overwhelming, but much appreciated.  I have gathered that Rigol scopes have a strong following, but my rather uneducated preferences have been leading me towards a 2 channel Siglent scope, i.e. SDS1072CML (~$300 USD).  I like the larger display, the individual vertical channel controls, and the quiet fan. 

In this thread, I saw a link to a firmware version of 5.01.02.29, but I found on the Siglent site that they have a 5.01.02.32 version.  Can anyone tell me what features this firmware adds, or problems it solves?

I would really be interested in people who have had a Siglent SDS1xxxCML scope for a while to see if you are still happy with it?

Thanks so much for any help!
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on August 15, 2015, 09:33:33 pm
Hello, I am new to this forum, and pretty new to blogs in general, so please forgive my ignorance.  I am a retired engineer (mostly Visual Basic software for Test Equipment), and I am thinking of playing around with some embedded processors, single board computers, and such as a hobby.  I have been looking for an entry level oscilloscope, which is how I found this forum.  The amount of information here is overwhelming, but much appreciated.  I have gathered that Rigol scopes have a strong following, but my rather uneducated preferences have been leading me towards a 2 channel Siglent scope, i.e. SDS1072CML (~$300 USD).  I like the larger display, the individual vertical channel controls, and the quiet fan. 

In this thread, I saw a link to a firmware version of 5.01.02.29, but I found on the Siglent site that they have a 5.01.02.32 version.  Can anyone tell me what features this firmware adds, or problems it solves?

I would really be interested in people who have had a Siglent SDS1xxxCML scope for a while to see if you are still happy with it?

Thanks so much for any help!
Welcome to the forum.

Lastest SDS1000 CNL/CML FW update.

Summary of Changes:
1.added bandwidth update option
2.fixed some bugs(including trigger jitter problem.
If use LongMemory and if timebase is 250us/div or less there is a jitter. If change to Normal memory no problem, if switch to Long Memory it appears.)


http://siglentamerica.com/download/software/SDS1000CML_SSP_V100R005B01D02P32.rar (http://siglentamerica.com/download/software/SDS1000CML_SSP_V100R005B01D02P32.rar)

As far as I know it will have been only minor tweaks of functionality, these are a goood basic sound DSO and although only 2 channel, they do have individual vertical controls for each and 400V volt rated inputs, 2 important features the Rigols do not have.
The HW in this series is common up to the 150 MHz model, so there will be no frequency roll off in the 70 MHz model at max BW.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rodelco54 on August 15, 2015, 10:14:29 pm
tautech:  Thanks for the reply.  Sorry that I missed that information you posted earlier.

...The HW in this series is common up to the 150 MHz model, so there will be no frequency roll off in the 70 MHz model at max BW.

So, if I understand what you are saying, the difference between this model, and say the SDS1102CML is just the firmware?  Does that mean that the hardware's bandwidth is the same on all the scopes in this series, but maybe just the timebase settings are restricted?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on August 15, 2015, 10:30:23 pm
Does that mean that the hardware's bandwidth is the same on all the scopes in this series, but maybe just the timebase settings are restricted?
Exactly.

Note the BW update option, this implies Siglent will be offering BW upgrades for purchase at some time in the future. I do not have this information officially, but due to the fact BW upgrade functionality is being added across Siglent's models/ranges one strongly presumes it will be the case.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on August 15, 2015, 10:37:41 pm
And sorry, to fully answer your question: BW is only set at the factory at the moment and FW just fixes bugs/improves functionality.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ted572 on September 22, 2015, 01:05:38 pm
Issue with the SHS800 Series Portable Oscilloscope's DMM 'Continuity' Measurement function:
The SHS800 Series DMM function 'Continuity' test has over a 1 second delay sounding the continuity test Tone when connecting to a closed circuit (a direct connection).  And there is a equal delay for it to mute the Tone after removing the test leads from the circuit under test.  Worst yet, the Tone does not sound continuously, but beeps On and Off while connected to a closed circuit.  All this makes it very difficult to check continuity, and impossible to locate an intermittent connections.  It is Ok to have a delay of the displayed Ohms value on the LCD, but certainly NOT with the Continuity Tone.   :-//
I have a SHS810 with the latest hardware and firmware, and I reported this issue to Siglent America.

Edit: The SHS800 and SHS1000 Series both currently use the same Firmware, therefore the DMM Continuity issue is most likely also in the SHS1000 Portable Oscilloscope.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rjeberhardt on September 24, 2015, 06:23:29 pm
Can someone explain the maximum input voltage specifications for the sds1000cml range?
It is quoted as "400V (DC+AC PK-PK,1M? input impedance, X10),CAT I" in Siglent's documentation.

Does that mean that it's the maximum when using a 10x probe?  If so what is the significance of 1M??  The front panel is marked 400 V with no reference to the use of a 10x probe and is also marked CAT II as opposed to CAT I.  All rather contradictory, CAT II on the front panel implies that it can be directly connected to measure the domestic mains supply - not that I have any intention to do that but it would be nice to know.

How about the maximum input voltage on the Trigger input?

Russell.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on September 24, 2015, 06:37:45 pm
Can someone explain the maximum input voltage specifications for the sds1000cml range?
It is quoted as "400V (DC+AC PK-PK,1M? input impedance, X10),CAT I" in Siglent's documentation.
Does that mean that it's the maximum when using a 10x probe?  If so what is the significance of 1M??  The front panel is marked 400 V with no reference to the use of a 10x probe and is also marked CAT II as opposed to CAT I.  All rather contradictory.
How about the maximum input voltage on the Trigger input?

Russell.
1 M Ohm is the standard input impedence for oscilloscope vertical channels.

Normal scope usage is with 10:1 probes, up to voltages specified as max for the probe in 10:1 setting.
For SDS1102CML probes this is 600V.
Refer to the probe datasheet for the "derating with frequency" graph

Within a measurement system it is best to apply the lowest of any CAT ratings.

For ongoing HV work one is wise to have 100:1 probes for safety of yourself and equipment.

Sorry, I don't have trigger ratings at hand at the moment.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rjeberhardt on September 25, 2015, 08:07:34 am
Thanks for your reply Tautech.

I designed and built my first oscilloscope while I was still at school nearly 55 years ago and have used them professionally over many years.  Now, in my retirement, I just play but I decided it was time to modernise my workshop a bit and have ordered an SDS1072CML from Amazon.  I just like to know the correct maximum ratings of any instrument I use.

I downloaded the user manual from Siglent and find it inconsistent.

1 M Ohm is the standard input impedence for oscilloscope vertical channels.
Of course, as it has been for decades but not relevant to the maximum input voltage spec.
Quote
Normal scope usage is with 10:1 probes, up to voltages specified as max for the probe in 10:1 setting.
For SDS1102CML probes this is 600V.
Refer to the probe datasheet for the "derating with frequency" graph
Yes, although I do also tend to connect to the inputs with through terminations for video and RF use.
Quote
Within a measurement system it is best to apply the lowest of any CAT ratings.
But what is the CAT rating?  The instrument itself is marked with one rating and the manual text quotes another! Perhaps a Siglent rep can give a definitive answer?

The manual is very poorly written (although much better than I could do in Chinese) but matters concerning safety of both the instrument and the user should be clear and consistent.

Russell.
P.S. What an excellent forum this is :-+
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rjeberhardt on September 28, 2015, 06:59:24 pm
I have just received an email from Siglent.uk and they confirm that the 400 V maximum is when using a 10x probe.  The maximum input at the socket is 40 V, not the 400 V that is marked on the instrument.

They also confirmed that the 10x probe can safely be connected to the supply mains.

Russell.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on September 28, 2015, 07:20:48 pm
I have just received an email from Siglent.uk and they confirm that the 400 V maximum is when using a 10x probe. The maximum input at the socket is 40 V, not the 400 V that is marked on the instrument.
This is QUITE incorrect.  |O 

RTFM.

Siglent DSO's all have 400V rated channel inputs.
The standard probe with your scope is rated to 600V at 10:1 setting, with frequency derating to be applied of course. The derating graph is in the probe packet, use it.

So with 400v applied to the 10:1 probe there will be 40V imposed on the DSO channel input. It is in simple terms a 10:1 resistive divider.

Best advice for ongoing HV measurements is to have 100:1 probes so as to not push the voltage safety limits of 10:1 probes and thus provide additional operator safety.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on September 28, 2015, 07:33:02 pm
I have just received an email from Siglent.uk and they confirm that the 400 V maximum is when using a 10x probe.  The maximum input at the socket is 40 V, not the 400 V that is marked on the instrument.

They also confirmed that the 10x probe can safely be connected to the supply mains.

Russell.

What?  :wtf:

Perhaps he/she was billing office worker or secretary.

Yes there is in specs something what match 40V  it is maximum Offset voltage setting...

Input = Oscilloscope front panel BNC. It is oscilloscope input, also in China.

400Vpeak CATII   (???)
It is printed in Service manual. 

I hope in future Siglent take this seriously and use standards perfectly and tell specifications exactly so that peoples do not need try quessing.

Quote
Table 1-2 Oscilloscope specifications
Inputs
Input Coupling AC, DC, GND
Input Impedance ?1M?±2%?||?16Pf±3Pf?
Maximum input voltage 400Vpk, CAT I I
Probe attenuation 1X, 10X
Probe attenuation ratio 1X, 5X, 10X, 50X, 100X, 500X, 1000X
Vertical System
Volts/Div Range 2mV/div~10V/div( in 1, 2, 5 sequence)

Channel Voltage Offset Range  (1)
2mV~200mV: ±1.6V
206 mV~10V: ±40V

(1) My add:
2mV~200mV/div
206 mV~10V/div


Edit add: And what is Siglent.uk ??
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nctnico on September 28, 2015, 08:34:19 pm
Maybe the maximum range of a 1:1 probe is 5V/div which means the maximum peak-peak you can display is 40V ???
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on September 28, 2015, 09:15:56 pm
Maybe the maximum range of a 1:1 probe is 5V/div which means the maximum peak-peak you can display is 40V ???
The SDS1000 range max/div attenuation setting is 10V/div. (1:1 input attenuation)
The Siglent supplied probe is 300V max at 1:1 setting.

I have just received an email from Siglent.uk and they confirm that the 400 V maximum is when using a 10x probe.  The maximum input at the socket is 40 V, not the 400 V that is marked on the instrument.
If really was the case, we'd have blown up front ends of Siglents everywhere.....where are these popped Siglents?
Nowhere, the all have 400 V channel input ratings.  :)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on September 29, 2015, 04:34:34 am

If really was the case, we'd have blown up front ends of Siglents everywhere.....where are these popped Siglents?
Nowhere, the all have 400 V channel input ratings.  :)

Yes, even in these QC tests what I have done for every Siglent what I have sold.
But still smoke did not come out from any single unit.

For OQ: If this answer about input was from Siglent please tell more about this answer. There need do  company personnel internal training about products.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rjeberhardt on September 29, 2015, 09:11:08 am
Edit add: And what is Siglent.uk ??
Sorry, that was meant to be siglent.eu

Russell.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rjeberhardt on September 29, 2015, 09:23:43 am
For OQ: If this answer about input was from Siglent please tell more about this answer. There need do  company personnel internal training about products.
Email received from support@siglent.eu:
Code: [Select]
Thank you for your email.
Yes 400V is with a 10X probe!
We do recommend when you use this scope and you are testing equipment with a higher voltage then 40V to always set your scope and probe in the 10X setting. This is much safer!

Connection to mains or other high voltages can be done in the 10X setting but be aware the the scope has no isolated inputs!
The work safely with mains we recommend a isolated front end :
http://www.siglent.eu/isfe-siglent-isolated-front-end-module.html

If you have any other questions please let us know.
 
Russell
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on September 29, 2015, 09:59:02 am
For OQ: If this answer about input was from Siglent please tell more about this answer. There need do  company personnel internal training about products.
Email received from support@siglent.eu:
Code: [Select]
Thank you for your email.
Yes 400V is with a 10X probe!
We do recommend when you use this scope and you are testing equipment with a higher voltage then 40V to always set your scope and probe in the 10X setting. This is much safer!

Connection to mains or other high voltages can be done in the 10X setting but be aware the the scope has no isolated inputs!
The work safely with mains we recommend a isolated front end :
http://www.siglent.eu/isfe-siglent-isolated-front-end-module.html

If you have any other questions please let us know.
 
Russell
Thanks for posting the email.

Both mine and rf-loops advice still applies.

For further info on the Siglent ISFE:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-isfe-scope-front-end-isolator-any-opinions/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-isfe-scope-front-end-isolator-any-opinions/)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nctnico on September 29, 2015, 10:36:04 am
Edit add: And what is Siglent.uk ??
Sorry, that was meant to be siglent.eu
Siglent.eu is not an official Siglent website! They sell test equipment from various Chinese brands including Siglent. Don't expect them (or him; I think it is a single person business) to be very knowledgable about the products they sell.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: gby on September 29, 2015, 12:15:28 pm
We have a special functionality requirement for a dual channel signal generator.  We wrote up the requirements in a separate post titled "What Signal Generator to Simulate Motor Position Feedback Devices which you can access via the below link:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/what-signal-generator-to-simulate-motor-position-feedback-devices/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/what-signal-generator-to-simulate-motor-position-feedback-devices/)

Could someone from Siglent comment in that thread about our question about the capabilities of the Siglent SDG5082 and SDG2042x to handle these requirements?

We would greatly appreciate your assistance in our purchase decision.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Docholiday on October 17, 2015, 12:25:10 am
Hi Siglent,

in the other thread, https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-spd3303d-series-bug/msg581704/#msg581704 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-spd3303d-series-bug/msg581704/#msg581704) , I've described the problem I have with my SPD3303S power supply. Apparently, they've silently revised the board, rotating the LCD 180 degrees and after I've upgraded my (presumably older version) hardware with the latest firmware posted on the Siglent website, everything displays upside down. There's no mention on the website that it's only applicable to some of the SPD3303Ss. I got in touch with Siglent but all they could offer was the firmware version even older than what I had before: 1.01.01.01.03 vs. 1.01.01.01.03R1. That's a really weird situation, please help me solve that.

Did this get resolved? As I am having the same problem too.

Thanks
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on November 12, 2015, 05:28:38 am
From my inbox today:

German Quick Start Guides
http://siglent.news-mailer.com/i/uKp5HT6P1rrjvc2UhRSl02cfJV3OrBDj (http://siglent.news-mailer.com/i/uKp5HT6P1rrjvc2UhRSl02cfJV3OrBDj)

Siglent ask: If you have other requirements, please let us know
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: kimer23 on November 12, 2015, 04:23:14 pm
I need a firmware or flash dump for SDS1022C 5,7'' LCD .
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: gigabyte091 on November 18, 2015, 04:45:30 pm
Hi, I bought SDS1072CML DSO and I'm very happy with it :)

But im curious, does pc software supports windows 10 ?

And can you in next fw remove lang select everytime we power the scope ?

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: IvoS on November 19, 2015, 01:58:15 am
Question for Siglent. I want to download and update the firmware on my SDG signal generator. I am not willing to register. How do I proceed?  You have to be kidding me..... :palm:
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on November 19, 2015, 02:33:18 am
Question for Siglent. I want to download and update the firmware on my SDG signal generator. I am not willing to register. How do I proceed?  You have to be kidding me..... :palm:
All Siglent FW, SW and Manuals are freely available from the USA site:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/support (http://www.siglentamerica.com/support)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ebastler on November 19, 2015, 08:32:23 am
Question for Siglent. I want to download and update the firmware on my SDG signal generator. I am not willing to register. How do I proceed?  You have to be kidding me..... :palm:

All downloads also seem to be freely available from Siglent's corporate page (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/gjjrj.aspx?id=15 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/gjjrj.aspx?id=15), the first hit I get on Google when searching for "siglent firmware download"). Where did you encounter the requirement to register?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on November 19, 2015, 08:47:14 am
Question for Siglent. I want to download and update the firmware on my SDG signal generator. I am not willing to register. How do I proceed?  You have to be kidding me..... :palm:

All downloads also seem to be freely available from Siglent's corporate page (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/gjjrj.aspx?id=15 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/gjjrj.aspx?id=15), the first hit I get on Google when searching for "siglent firmware download"). Where did you encounter the requirement to register?
It used to be a requirement to register on the China EN site and AFAIK it still is.
Good to know they can be had freely from the EU site too, thanks.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: RogerRowland on November 19, 2015, 12:58:00 pm
It used to be a requirement to register on the China EN site and AFAIK it still is.
Good to know they can be had freely from the EU site too, thanks.

I was forced to log in before downloading from the EU site, you can browse everything but not download without registering, apparently. Anyway, I'm registered so it's no big deal.

Why would anyone not wish to register?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: IvoS on November 19, 2015, 08:57:00 pm
Why would anyone not wish to register?

Because then I will be getting tons of SPAM. I was unable to download from US going directly to siglent.com.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on November 19, 2015, 09:42:29 pm
Why would anyone not wish to register?

Because then I will be getting tons of SPAM. I was unable to download from US going directly to siglent.com.

Hello Ivos.

Siglent does not sell email addresses to anyone else so there should be no issue with spam.
If you would like to send your request in an email you can send it to us at

info@Siglent.com

or you can send me a PM. Either way, we will get you whatever you need.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: c4757p on November 19, 2015, 09:49:26 pm
Why would anyone not wish to register?

Because some people don't want to spread their information around to people who don't actually need it. Some people aren't particularly public.

Pro tip: http://www.fakenamegenerator.com/ (http://www.fakenamegenerator.com/)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: RogerRowland on November 20, 2015, 05:52:41 am
Because some people don't want to spread their information around to people who don't actually need it. Some people aren't particularly public.

Pro tip: http://www.fakenamegenerator.com/ (http://www.fakenamegenerator.com/)

Love the fake name generator! A bit spooky that the first random choice gave the first line of my address as "90 Rowland Street" though.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: crispy_tofu on November 20, 2015, 09:28:49 am
+1, but it gave my fake 'geo coordinates' as being in the middle of the Pacific Ocean...  :-//
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: LeszKo on November 30, 2015, 09:21:56 pm
Hi,
Recently I upgraded my Siglent 1102CML with new firmware 5.01.02.32. The main reason was that for single mode I could not enable LongMemory depth. Even I enabled it before, once I pushed Single button it returned to normal mode immediately. Now this works fine. Unfortunately when I scale time base to about 5ms, capture a single shot and then scale to 2,5us the display shows vertical stripes. When scaling deeper it even gets worse. If I change display mode to dots instead of vectors  the display is correct to about 250ns. Then the waveform gets flat (GND).
Has anyone else encountered the same problem? Please check with your scopes.
It would be also nice if Siglent could investigate this issue. I can support with data logs/pictures, whatever is needed.
Regards
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 22, 2015, 08:48:53 pm
From my Inbox today:

Quote
SIGLENT Technologies is pleased to announce that on December 21, 2015 we will celebrate our 13-year anniversary.

Happy Birthday Siglent

Also:
Quote
Also on this day, SIGLENT Technologies will officially introduce our newest member of the X-Instrument family, the SSA3000X Series Spectrum Analyzer series. With its optional tracking generator (up to 3.2 GHz), bright and easy-to-read display, and high-accuracy / high-resolution measurement capability, the SSA3000 series spectrum analyzer is designed to test and analyze signals in the 9 kHz to 2.1 GHz / 3.2 GHz range. The SSA3000X Series is packed with many new features and powerful functions.
Thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssa3000x-spectrum-analyzers/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssa3000x-spectrum-analyzers/)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on December 23, 2015, 09:32:05 am
Dear all new and old friends,
   Merry Christmas!
   It seems that Christmas time is here once again, and it is time again to bring in the New Year. We wish the merry of Christmas to you and your loved ones, and we wish you happiness and prosperity in the year ahead.

   May Christmas and the New Year be filled with happiness for you!

   Thank you for support SIGLENT!
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=189202;image)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 24, 2015, 02:39:42 am
Dear all new and old friends,
   Merry Christmas!
   It seems that Christmas time is here once again, and it is time again to bring in the New Year. We wish the merry of Christmas to you and your loved ones, and we wish you happiness and prosperity in the year ahead.

   May Christmas and the New Year be filled with happiness for you!

   Thank you for support SIGLENT!
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=189202;image)
Thank you Siglent for your support over 2015.

Kind and best wishes from tautech.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ShreveCC on December 24, 2015, 04:44:03 am
I have an improvement recommendation for the SDS1102X\SDS1202X decoder and trigger option.  I just purchased the 1102X scope and it is on its way in shipping.  At some point in time I am going to purchase the decoder, however I really want the decoder option to decode the ASCII text and not just the hex values when it decodes a bus signal. 

I noticed others really want this from the reviews on Siglent dealer sites and You Tube reviews also.  Is this possible to have ASCII support in the decoder option?  I mean its going to cost myself and others an additional $169 U.S. dollars for the decode\trigger option -  so it would really help to sell the optional package and also more scopes in turn by adding the ASCII values in the
decoding.  :-+
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Wall-E on December 29, 2015, 06:41:26 pm
Siglent now has a fix for the flawed SHS800/1000 Oscilloscope's DMM 'Continuity Test' !
Contact Siglent Customer Support and tell them that you would like your unit corrected.
NOTE: The SHS800/1000's DMM 'Continuity Test' is a useless function as it is currently in these units.  Good news: You can now get it fixed. . .

The SHS800 DMM's 'Continuity' test doesn't work properly.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg761207/#msg761207 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg761207/#msg761207)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: sotos on December 29, 2015, 09:00:18 pm
Siglent now has a fix for the flawed SHS800/1000 Oscilloscope's DMM 'Continuity Test' !
Contact Siglent Customer Support and tell them that you would like your unit corrected.
NOTE: The SHS800/1000's DMM 'Continuity Test' is a useless function as it is currently in these units.  Good news: You can now get it fixed. . .

The SHS800 DMM's 'Continuity' test doesn't work properly.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg761207/#msg761207 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg761207/#msg761207)

Contact Siglent Customer Support in which country?
I have an SHS806. Do you have to send it to them or it’s just a software update?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 29, 2015, 10:08:29 pm
I have an improvement recommendation for the SDS1102X\SDS1202X decoder and trigger option.  I just purchased the 1102X scope and it is on its way in shipping.  At some point in time I am going to purchase the decoder, however I really want the decoder option to decode the ASCII text and not just the hex values when it decodes a bus signal. 

I noticed others really want this from the reviews on Siglent dealer sites and You Tube reviews also.  Is this possible to have ASCII support in the decoder option?  I mean its going to cost myself and others an additional $169 U.S. dollars for the decode\trigger option -  so it would really help to sell the optional package and also more scopes in turn by adding the ASCII values in the
decoding.  :-+
I pointed Siglent tech support to this before Xmas and while there were no promises, R&D are looking at including ASCII support in future SDS1000X FW if possible.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Wall-E on December 29, 2015, 10:39:34 pm
Siglent now has a fix for the flawed SHS800/1000 Oscilloscope's DMM 'Continuity Test'.
Contact Siglent Customer Support and tell them that you would like your unit corrected.
NOTE: The SHS800/1000's DMM 'Continuity Test' is a useless function as it is currently in these units.  Good news: You can now get it fixed. . .

The SHS800 DMM's 'Continuity' test doesn't work properly.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg761207/#msg761207 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg761207/#msg761207)

Contact Siglent Customer Support in which country?
I have an SHS806. Do you have to send it to them or it’s just a software update?

It is a hardware and software change.  So contact the dealer you purchased your unit from for instructions. The dealer should be able to handle and process this for you. Siglent is responsible for this and therefor the Siglent's authorized dealer should take care of it for you.

Report your results back here so that everyone gets see how Siglent handles this issue and that they get their due credit, or criticism if there are problems. Siglent said they are taking responsibility for this and others have already been serviced on this issue. Therefore I expect that you will be taken care of in a responsible manner also.  Good luck.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ShreveCC on December 31, 2015, 09:09:57 pm
I have an improvement recommendation for the SDS1102X\SDS1202X decoder and trigger option.  I just purchased the 1102X scope and it is on its way in shipping.  At some point in time I am going to purchase the decoder, however I really want the decoder option to decode the ASCII text and not just the hex values when it decodes a bus signal. 

I noticed others really want this from the reviews on Siglent dealer sites and You Tube reviews also.  Is this possible to have ASCII support in the decoder option?  I mean its going to cost myself and others an additional $169 U.S. dollars for the decode\trigger option -  so it would really help to sell the optional package and also more scopes in turn by adding the ASCII values in the
decoding.  :-+
 
I pointed Siglent tech support to this before Xmas and while there were no promises, R&D are looking at including ASCII support in future SDS1000X FW if possible.


I just got my scope, and well from what I have checked over for use; including updating to the latest firmware...   

In my opinion: 

It is a really great scope at the price/ to performance/ to capability. 

256 temperature (color) intensity graded display-  excellent screen, by the way :-+
50 ohm impedance mode
hardware based triggering
Eres and sequence recording
500 uV/Div ... Awesome features at $424 U.S. dollars on Amazon

no extra channels... well you can't expect everything at this price, but this is an excellent scope-
Siglent has a winning product- the SDS 1102X
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: jemangedeslolos on January 04, 2016, 10:58:52 am
Hello Mr Siglent :)

I just bought few days ago your SDM3055 multimeter from Batronix.com
I have a little issue. It seems to work like a charm but sometimes, the transformer make some 50Hz noise.
A first, I thought that it comes from the metallic housing which vibrates because of the transformer but it doesn't.
If I tilted the device on the side, I can clearly hear the noise coming from the transformer but it is a very metallic and loud noise that is not normal.

What can I do ?

Thank you
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: GAD on January 07, 2016, 10:40:51 pm
Posting my findings after having this meter for a day and returning it. Here are my general ramblings in no particular order.

To be fair, I'm a hobbyist and I've used a Fluke 175 for the past 10 years. I basically wanted a convenient bench meter that was easy to use and read. I'd never owned a bench multimeter and decided to try the Siglent because it looked great and I'd had great experience with my Rigol 'scope.

I did not like the way this meter "felt", if that makes sense. It's slow, so naturally having read all the threads on it, I downloaded the latest firmware which made it faster, but "faster" felt like it was overclocked instead of feeling more responsive. Even with the newer firmware a continuity check was not instantaneous and my overwhelming feeling after testing it for hours was that I just didn't trust it. Everything about it just felt cheap to me and for the price, I returned it and bought a used Fluke (though that's got its own issues).

It takes too long to boot. I know it's a linux box and that's cool, but that also annoyed me. Yes, I know it should sit for a while to stabilize so boot time shouldn't be a big deal, but my Fluke bench meter is instantly on.

The screen drove me nuts. It's not as beautiful as it is in the pics, and there was no way to adjust either the brightness or the contrast. If I'd have been able to get that pure black that's shown in the marketing pics I would have been a bit more enthusiastic. I love the screen on the Rigol 'scope, so that was my baseline.

The always-on blue power light is terrible.

For reference, I'm not really a gear snob, but I like what I like. I have a Rigol DS1054Z that I love and I have none of these complaints about it except for maybe the boot time.

I loved some of the advanced features like the trending screens and such, but I just couldn't get past the feeling that I'd spent a fair chunk of money on something that I wasn't happy with so I returned it.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nctnico on January 08, 2016, 12:06:06 am
Hint: if you are not after 5 digits or more precision but still want a bench meter then get a 4.5 digit VC8145 ! This meter has instant continuity and lots of other nice features.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: DSoldano on January 14, 2016, 04:05:07 pm
Problem with Siglent SPD3303D.

I bought this power supply about a year ago and then got busy with work and other things so it just sat in the closet until a few days ago. I have some spare time so decided to build an internet connected Programmable DC Load. I am powering the circuit off of the fixed 5V channel CH3 and using channel 1 (CH1) as the source supply for the load. I have it set at 5V to limit the power through the circuit during initial tests since I haven't attached the components to a heatsink yet.

As soon as I start to draw current the CH1 supply voltage starts to drop. It appears drops off from 4.98V no load/open circuit to 4.85V at 300ma and to 4.78V at 1.2A. I tried both channels. The behavior is the same on both Channel 1 and Channel 2. I even tried running the channels in parallel - same behavior. The display on the SPD3303D reads 5.00V throughout the whole exercise, never wavers although the current reading changes.

I checked to see if there were cable losses - nope. I checked the banana plugs at the terminals for poor contact - nope. I checked the output voltage with three different meters - they all validate the findings. In each case, the display on the SPD3303D reads 5.00V.

Any suggestions? Any ideas from Siglent Tech Support? Hardware version is V1.2. Software version is 1.01.01.01.06R1.

Thanks

Dominick
 
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on January 14, 2016, 04:29:52 pm
PM sent
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Macbeth on January 14, 2016, 09:45:26 pm
Hint: if you are not after 5 digits or more precision but still want a bench meter then get a 4.5 digit VC8145 ! This meter has instant continuity and lots of other nice features.

4 7/8 digit surely? (80,000 count not 20,000 count like a 4 1/2)

Have you found a recalibration procedure for it yet?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nctnico on January 14, 2016, 10:01:04 pm
Hint: if you are not after 5 digits or more precision but still want a bench meter then get a 4.5 digit VC8145 ! This meter has instant continuity and lots of other nice features.

4 7/8 digit surely? (80,000 count not 20,000 count like a 4 1/2)

Have you found a recalibration procedure for it yet?
There are only 2 potmeters on the board so if it is out of cal just turn them until the values are within spec. However the LM385 reference in the VC8145 has a typical aging of 20ppm in the first 1000 hours so I don't expect it to go out of spec any time soon.
Title: EasyWave P34 issues
Post by: billfernandez on January 23, 2016, 05:59:07 am
Greetings:  I just upgraded EasyWave on my Windows 7 PC from version P32 to P34.  Now when I run it I get an endless series of error alerts:  "An unsupported operation was attempted." 

Version P32 was working fine before I uninstalled it so that I could install P34.  Is it possible that P34 is only compatible with Windows 10?

ADDED JANUARY 24:

o I uninstalled P34, restarted my PC, re-installed P34:  same problem.

o I ininstalled P34, restarted my PC, re-installed P32 (that's pee-thirty-two): the problem went away.
Title: Re: EasyWave P34 issues
Post by: rosbuitre on January 24, 2016, 11:12:51 am
Greetings:  I just upgraded EasyWave on my Windows 7 PC from version P32 to P34.  Now when I run it I get an endless series of error alerts:  "An unsupported operation was attempted." 

Version P32 was working fine before I uninstalled it so that I could install P34.  Is it possible that P34 is only compatible with Windows 10?

Hi
I use it in Windows 10 and I get the same error, setting it does not work as compatible with windows 7

Regards
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on January 24, 2016, 12:41:28 pm
Just for test, unistalled P32 (also cleaned all residues)  and installed P34 without any kind of problem.

System: Windows 7 Pro -64  SP1  with all current updates.

P34 wworks just as previous version exept there can select also SDG2000X (8pts-8Mpts)
Installed using: "For all users"

I have not tested connection with any SDG equipment but some free plaaying with it and done some hand draw and equation draw waveforms and stored as .csv.
Just works normally without any extra error messages.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rosbuitre on January 24, 2016, 02:01:07 pm
Just for test, unistalled P32 (also cleaned all residues)  and installed P34 without any kind of problem.

System: Windows 7 Pro -64  SP1  with all current updates.

P34 wworks just as previous version exept there can select also SDG2000X (8pts-8Mpts)
Installed using: "For all users"

I have not tested connection with any SDG equipment but some free plaaying with it and done some hand draw and equation draw waveforms and stored as .csv.
Just works normally without any extra error messages.

Hi
Uninstall EasyWave and EasyPower with RevoUninstaller+Ccleaner, install in Windows 10, and persist the problem

Regards
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on January 25, 2016, 03:30:14 am
Dear Friends?

   We will participate in the Embedded World 2016.Welcome to visit our booths. :D :D

   You can get a free e-ticket By the link below:
https://www.messe-ticket.de/Nuernberg/EmbeddedWorld2016/Register?culture=en (https://www.messe-ticket.de/Nuernberg/EmbeddedWorld2016/Register?culture=en)

   Insert voucher code (B318833) and your information, you will receive the e-ticket.  ^-^

Thank you for support Siglent!
Best regards.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: motocoder on February 14, 2016, 04:51:01 am

Hello fellow EEVbloggers,

I am a technical support engineer from Siglent, and so glad to offer effective technical support, trouble-shooting and problem solving for all Siglent products.

Also, we will appreciate if you could share your experiences and some improvement suggestions with us.
 
Any comments will be highly appreciated.

SIGLENT TECHNOLOGIES CO., LTD.

Hi -

I have a question about my SDG1025. I have done the same mod discussed on this thread to add a TCXO. This is working fine, but I recently set up an external 10MHz reference, and want to use that instead. I had to set the output of my reference to about  10 dBm (2 Vpp into 50 ohm load / 4 Vpp into high impedance) in order to get the SDG1025 to recognize it, and I am concerned that the TCXO might be connected to the same signal as the external reference input.

Can you tell me if this is the case?

Thanks
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: kwass on February 15, 2016, 06:25:54 am

Hi -

I have a question about my SDG1025. I have done the same mod discussed on this thread to add a TCXO. This is working fine, but I recently set up an external 10MHz reference, and want to use that instead. I had to set the output of my reference to about  10 dBm (2 Vpp into 50 ohm load / 4 Vpp into high impedance) in order to get the SDG1025 to recognize it, and I am concerned that the TCXO might be connected to the same signal as the external reference input.

Can you tell me if this is the case?

Don't worry, the 10MHz input is not coupled to the TCXO.  You can keep feed the 10Mhz input all the time and switch between the internal (now TCXO) reference and the external one via the menu.


Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: motocoder on February 15, 2016, 08:28:31 am

Hi -

I have a question about my SDG1025. I have done the same mod discussed on this thread to add a TCXO. This is working fine, but I recently set up an external 10MHz reference, and want to use that instead. I had to set the output of my reference to about  10 dBm (2 Vpp into 50 ohm load / 4 Vpp into high impedance) in order to get the SDG1025 to recognize it, and I am concerned that the TCXO might be connected to the same signal as the external reference input.

Can you tell me if this is the case?

Don't worry, the 10MHz input is not coupled to the TCXO.  You can keep feed the 10Mhz input all the time and switch between the internal (now TCXO) reference and the external one via the menu.

Thanks, kwass.

In case anyone else runs into this, there was some strange behavior where the SDG1025 menu would show that it was set on external ref, but it clearly was not. This went away with a firmware update. Everything is working now.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 02, 2016, 08:30:40 am
Siglent have released a range of Labview drivers for the SPD3000 series of PSUs:

http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=204 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=204)

Title: SDG1050 Very bad working mode: Sweep(Log)
Post by: Tjuurko on March 06, 2016, 08:52:21 am
Model SDG1050
SW 1.01.01.37R3
HW 02-00-00-23-24

CH1/CH2 (any)
Sine/Square/Ramp (any)
Offset=0 (any)
Ampl=7.4Vpp (any)
Sweep
SwpTime=500.000s
StopFreq=3.9MHz
StartFreq=39Hz
Source=Internal
Linear/Log=Log
Direction=Up

The picture shows the output frequency change (in logarithmic scale) versus time.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nctnico on March 06, 2016, 11:16:47 am
@Tjuurko: this is a known bug in the SDG1000 series but I doubt it will get fixed so don't use log sweep in those generators.
Title: New Siglent Plus models (Siglent DSO HW improvements)
Post by: tautech on May 31, 2016, 04:13:51 am
FYI

Siglent have been working on some improvements to their existing models:

The SDS1000DL and SDS1000CML series now have 800x600 displays AND LAN as standard.
(http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Picture/Product/SDS1000/CMLplus/SDS1152CMLplus1.png)
http://www.siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=4656&T=2&tid=1 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=4656&T=2&tid=1)
New manuals
http://www.siglent.com/ENs/prodcut-wd.aspx?id=1428&tid=1&T=2 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/prodcut-wd.aspx?id=1428&tid=1&T=2)

(http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Picture/Product/SDS1000/CMLplus/20160407143759.png)

Datasheet
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/DataSheet/SDS1000DLplus_CMLplus_DataSheet_DS0101A-E01A.pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/DataSheet/SDS1000DLplus_CMLplus_DataSheet_DS0101A-E01A.pdf)



For the SDS1000X series there has been addition of 16 channel MSO to the previously known S models with inbuilt AWG. These will now be known as SDS1000X+.
The SDS1000X ( no +) range without AWG and MSO will stay. (100 and 200 MHz)
Enabling software and 16 ch probe assembly will need to be purchased for units with the new MSO port in the Plus models.
http://www.siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=4688&T=2&tid=1 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=4688&T=2&tid=1)

(http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Picture/Product/SDS1000plus/PICTURE.png)

Datasheet:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/DataSheet/SDS1000X&Xplus%20_DataSheet_DS010X_E01A.pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/DataSheet/SDS1000X&Xplus%20_DataSheet_DS010X_E01A.pdf)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on July 19, 2016, 11:59:27 pm
Instrument Calibration

There have been requests for information regarding user calibration of Siglent equipment.
2 main programs are used to cover all the series available at this time.
Compatibility is listed in the table below and methodologies listed in Service manuals.
Additional calibrated reference equipment may be required for any re-calibration results to meet published specs.
Please don't try this at home without the appropriate calibrated equipment.


Series                     Pysion         Easytest

SDS1000X                  y               ×
SDS2000X                  y               ×
SSA3000X                  y               ×
SDG800                      y               ×
SDG1000                    y               ×
      
SDG2000X                  y               ×
SDG5000                    y               ×
SHS800/1000             ×               y
SDM3055                   ×               y
      
SPD3000C/D/S/X/X-E ×               y
SDS1000CFL              ×               y
SDS1000CML+/DL+    ×               y


Instruments that require EasyTest require a custom script for each model, available from Siglent.

EasyTest scripts are only available from Siglent in a Chinese version UI however the screenshot below offers English captions for guidance.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=17966.0;attach=241827;image)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on July 20, 2016, 10:00:50 am
Having today sold out of SDS1102CML DSO's I unpacked and booted one of the new Plus versions of these good little DSO's.

Surprisingly the updated 800 x 480 display resolution is immediately obvious as too was the lack of the much despised language selection dialogue.  :clap:
The colourful Siglent splash screen at boot has been replaced with the same as all the newer Siglent series, the black screen and Siglent logo.

With contact to Tech support I was sent new FW, (beta I think) the update process being exactly the same as previously however there was no need to reboot the DSO, it did it itself.  :)

With double the display resolution there have been a few subtle changes in the GUI, text finer but more crisp for both menus and OSD. Trace colours are now yellow and pink, blue has been omitted as it's normally used for channel 3 on 4 channel scopes, less confusing IMO.

See for yourself

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=241944)

And yes, I already asked Siglent to consider making the All Measure box transparent in forthcoming FW for the SDS1000CML+.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ZALance on July 25, 2016, 08:36:12 pm
Hi All...

The reason I'm here is about a scope I got my hands on and the only info I found about the part number on the PCB brought me here (see pic)...  It's a rebadged Siglent of sorts.  From what I can tell it's a SDS1102 family.  Problem is, it's semi-bricked:  previously someone tried to update the firmware and the display is not the same resolution as the firmware was written for (320X240 5.7" display trying to run 480X234 7").  Bummer is, only the left half of the displayed window appears on the screen!  Also, there is no waveform when I probe something - probe and source are fine...  Tried to "Auto", but then a message "No signal" comes up...

Can anyone please help me with the capabilities of the hardware and what firmware I should load and how?  Is there a firmware version around that drives 320X240?

The brand is AA Tech ADS-2102B and the screen splash on startup says "Atten ADS-1102CM"!!.  Can't find any AA Tech support on web.

Thanks...
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: FrozenHaxor on July 25, 2016, 08:47:59 pm
Honestly I don't think that Siglent will bother to respond to this thread anymore. Their latest posts were quite random, irrelevant and long time ago.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on July 25, 2016, 08:52:42 pm
Honestly I don't think that Siglent will bother to respond to this thread anymore. Their latest posts were quite random, irrelevant and long time ago.
::)
Siglent watch this thread every working day and I every day!
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Kilrah on July 25, 2016, 08:58:35 pm
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/atten-oscilloscope-firmware/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/atten-oscilloscope-firmware/) ?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on July 25, 2016, 09:00:58 pm
Hi All...

The reason I'm here is about a scope I got my hands on and the only info I found about the part number on the PCB brought me here (see pic)...  It's a rebadged Siglent of sorts.  From what I can tell it's a SDS1102 family.  Problem is, it's semi-bricked:  previously someone tried to update the firmware and the display is not the same resolution as the firmware was written for (320X240 5.7" display trying to run 480X234 7").  Bummer is, only the left half of the displayed window appears on the screen!  Also, there is no waveform when I probe something - probe and source are fine...  Tried to "Auto", but then a message "No signal" comes up...

Can anyone please help me with the capabilities of the hardware and what firmware I should load and how?  Is there a firmware version around that drives 320X240?

The brand is AA Tech ADS-2102B and the screen splash on startup says "Atten ADS-1102CM"!!.  Can't find any AA Tech support on web.

Thanks...
Yes the 5.7" display is pre the current "L" models. (7" widescreen)

Has the PCB any unpopulated areas were bigger/more memory modules might be?
This can determine if it's 40 Kpts or 2 Mpts memory model.

I only have some old Atten 5" ADS1000 series FW on my PC that might be of help but it will too big to upload as an  attachment for you to grab so PM me if you need it with your email address.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: marchelh on December 05, 2016, 04:21:54 pm
Hi there,

I hope that Siglent is actually reading this forum thread, and hope the get some support for details in regards to SCPI programming of the remote control protocols of the SDS1000X(+) models.
The problem is, that the current document for remote control is based on the older SDS1000CML version and lags the newer AWG and LA functions of the X models.
Is there any information on how to access these functions from the remote control interface.

Kind regards,
Marchel.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: W8LV on December 05, 2016, 05:36:47 pm
Fantastic! Just bought a 100 MHz scope and Arbitrary Waveform Generator from you guys a month ago... Still in the boxes...for Christmas!
I haven't touched a scope since 1978 (RCA... (Later VIZ) and Eico) in High School. I'm really afraid of blowing something up. Bill in Circleville, Ohio (W8LV)

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 05, 2016, 06:08:37 pm
Hi there,

I hope that Siglent is actually reading this forum thread, and hope the get some support for details in regards to SCPI programming of the remote control protocols of the SDS1000X(+) models.
The problem is, that the current document for remote control is based on the older SDS1000CML version and lags the newer AWG and LA functions of the X models.
Is there any information on how to access these functions from the remote control interface.

Kind regards,
Marchel.
Was there not any material on the shipped CD ?
(I need to check one......)

This is a year old but released since the X series DSO's have been around:

http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/Program_Material/SIGLENT_Digital_Oscilloscopes_Remote%20Control%20Manual.pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/Program_Material/SIGLENT_Digital_Oscilloscopes_Remote%20Control%20Manual.pdf)

It was tucked away in the "Others" section of "Download".

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on December 05, 2016, 06:11:13 pm
Hi there,

I hope that Siglent is actually reading this forum thread, and hope the get some support for details in regards to SCPI programming of the remote control protocols of the SDS1000X(+) models.
The problem is, that the current document for remote control is based on the older SDS1000CML version and lags the newer AWG and LA functions of the X models.
Is there any information on how to access these functions from the remote control interface.

Kind regards,
Marchel.

Hi Marchel,

Have you taken a look at this programming guide?
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/Program_Material/Programming%20Guide%20For%20Digital%20Oscilloscopes%20Series.pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/Program_Material/Programming%20Guide%20For%20Digital%20Oscilloscopes%20Series.pdf)

You might see if that helps you out.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: marchelh on December 05, 2016, 09:14:36 pm
Thanks for the reply. This is indeed a bit newer that the guide that I found on the Siglent web side, however This guide is still not up to date, and missing a lot of the newer functionality that the newer SDS1000X(+) are featured with. It mentions the newer SPO scopes but the AWG and Logic Analyzer remote control commands are completely missing. Are there any plans to document/expose these commands? I have tried some analisys from executing the EasyWave tool with the NI trace tool, and comparing it with the remote control guid of the signal gens from Siglent. But the actual commands send from the EasyWave tool are not the same as whats in these SDG guides. And trying some of these commands only crasshes the scope so no luck on that. By the way, love the scope.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: marchelh on December 06, 2016, 05:34:16 pm
The reason why I want this information, is to add the SDS1000(X/CML/CNL/DL) series scopes and MSO's to the SigRok library and support Pulseview to display the traces. I currently don't have the Logic Analyzer module, but I hope I can afford is soon enough to start testing the functionality of the LA. The selection system is already working and I'm now busy doing the initialization and data acquisition. So any information regarding the programming interface of the Siglent SDS series is welcome.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 06, 2016, 11:28:58 pm
Thanks for the reply. This is indeed a bit newer that the guide that I found on the Siglent web side, however This guide is still not up to date, and missing a lot of the newer functionality that the newer SDS1000X(+) are featured with. It mentions the newer SPO scopes but the AWG and Logic Analyzer remote control commands are completely missing. Are there any plans to document/expose these commands? I have tried some analisys from executing the EasyWave tool with the NI trace tool, and comparing it with the remote control guid of the signal gens from Siglent. But the actual commands send from the EasyWave tool are not the same as whats in these SDG guides. And trying some of these commands only crasshes the scope so no luck on that. By the way, love the scope.
Are you using the EasyWave that's specifically for the SDS1kX+ and previous S series ?
http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4827&tid=14 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4827&tid=14)

Maybe you must use this version along with the Programming guides to get the results you seek.
Let us know if that fixes things for you.  ;)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on December 07, 2016, 02:50:50 pm
I have asked the factory for more info but don't have a definite answer yet. One of our USA people is at the factory right now and have asked him to check.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Rolo on December 07, 2016, 03:40:05 pm
Hi, I would like to ask a support question for my Siglent SDS1072CML Oscilloscope. It's working fine but there is one little annoying thing and that is that at every powerup the language question pops up. I have to confirm English every time. I did read somewhere that this can be fixed by loading a config file, if this is true can you provide me the config file for my model oscilloscope ? Attached you find the details of my oscilloscope.
Thanks !


Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: marchelh on December 07, 2016, 04:32:20 pm
Are you using the EasyWave that's specifically for the SDS1kX+ and previous S series ?
http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4827&tid=14 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4827&tid=14)

Maybe you must use this version along with the Programming guides to get the results you seek.
Let us know if that fixes things for you.  ;)

Yes, I did. This showed me some of the functions are available in the scope but not documented in the guides. And what would really be useful are the possibilities to switch on and of waveforms and change the AWG waveform time bases. And that is not implemented in the EasyWave application. So A more complete remote control guide would be a must, and make the scope really usefull. 

Gr,
Marchel. 
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 07, 2016, 07:00:49 pm
Hi, I would like to ask a support question for my Siglent SDS1072CML Oscilloscope. It's working fine but there is one little annoying thing and that is that at every powerup the language question pops up. I have to confirm English every time. I did read somewhere that this can be fixed by loading a config file, if this is true can you provide me the config file for my model oscilloscope ? Attached you find the details of my oscilloscope.
Thanks !
Good, you are using the latest FW.  :-+

Language selection at boot has been an enduring problem for Siglent to get right for users and we have requested several times for this to be solved.  :horse:

But there's a reason why it's still present: these scopes are often supplied in #'s to educational facilities where students have great fun in changing the language setting just before they leave the lab.
Of course then on next boot the language selection is there to easily fix this.

If you just ignore it and use ANY control or button, the language selection dialogue will immediately disappear and you can just continue to use the scope.
If you use this startup procedure you will quickly get used to ignoring the language selection.

We know this is not ideal but it works.
Fortunately the X series and the new CML+ models don't have this annoying small problem.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on December 08, 2016, 03:19:43 pm
Hi there,

I hope that Siglent is actually reading this forum thread, and hope the get some support for details in regards to SCPI programming of the remote control protocols of the SDS1000X(+) models.
The problem is, that the current document for remote control is based on the older SDS1000CML version and lags the newer AWG and LA functions of the X models.
Is there any information on how to access these functions from the remote control interface.

Kind regards,
Marchel.

PM sent
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Rolo on December 09, 2016, 02:30:54 pm
Hi, I would like to ask a support question for my Siglent SDS1072CML Oscilloscope. It's working fine but there is one little annoying thing and that is that at every powerup the language question pops up. I have to confirm English every time. I did read somewhere that this can be fixed by loading a config file, if this is true can you provide me the config file for my model oscilloscope ? Attached you find the details of my oscilloscope.
Thanks !
Good, you are using the latest FW.  :-+

Language selection at boot has been an enduring problem for Siglent to get right for users and we have requested several times for this to be solved.  :horse:

But there's a reason why it's still present: these scopes are often supplied in #'s to educational facilities where students have great fun in changing the language setting just before they leave the lab.
Of course then on next boot the language selection is there to easily fix this.

If you just ignore it and use ANY control or button, the language selection dialogue will immediately disappear and you can just continue to use the scope.
If you use this startup procedure you will quickly get used to ignoring the language selection.

We know this is not ideal but it works.
Fortunately the X series and the new CML+ models don't have this annoying small problem.
Thanks for your reply. I assume that with the plus model now available there wil be no more updates for my scope. As said, it not a big problemen but it looks like an easy fix in firmware. If anyone (educational purpose) wants the selection at boot they can choose not to apply the update.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 10, 2016, 06:52:05 pm
Thanks for your reply. I assume that with the plus model now available there wil be no more updates for my scope. As said, it not a big problemen but it looks like an easy fix in firmware. If anyone (educational purpose) wants the selection at boot they can choose not to apply the update.
I couldn't say.  :-//
The CML's and CNL's are still sold in China along with other models we don't see in Western markets. They've both been good units for a # of years so I wouldn't write off there's more FW to come however I think any further tweaks will be minor. I now only stock the Plus models as they have LAN and a higher res display for the same price as the older models like yours.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 30, 2016, 02:26:06 am
New Firmware for SPD3303X and X-E models.
http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=15 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=15)

From the changelog:

Summary of Changes:
1) Add the CH3’s SCPI control command.
2) Fixed a design bug about voltage setup.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: pantelei4 on January 03, 2017, 09:50:51 am
Siglent shs806 normal mode and long memory problems.
My device has firmware SHS800 series Firmware Version: 3.01.02.02R2 | Released 2015-03-10
I'm sorry my English is very bad.
In normal mode  trigger incorrectly expands and scales already captured waveform.
All, who have such devices, confirm this bug.
Long memory does not work in single and normal trigger mode.
When there are bugs fixed?
https://youtu.be/w-3WQrMFcqU

https://youtu.be/cFkWue_sLkY

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on January 03, 2017, 04:13:52 pm
Siglent shs806 normal mode and long memory problems.
My device has firmware SHS800 series Firmware Version: 3.01.02.02R2 | Released 2015-03-10
I'm sorry my English is very bad.
In normal mode  trigger incorrectly expands and scales already captured waveform.
All, who have such devices, confirm this bug.
Long memory does not work in single and normal trigger mode.
When there are bugs fixed?
Welcome to the forum.

I'll point these issues to Tech support.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Dmitrii on January 17, 2017, 11:46:16 am
Hello!

I purchased the SDS1202CNL+ oscilloscope and I want to connect it to NI LabView 2016. The problem is that Measurement & Automation Explorer does not see this model neither by USB, nor by RS-232. In the oscilloscope system menu item "Back USB" there are only two options available: "Printer" and "Computer", but there is no option "USBTMC". There is no firmware update for this model at the Siglent website. Could you help me to resolve this problem, please.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on January 17, 2017, 06:54:22 pm
Hello!

I purchased the SDS1202CNL+ oscilloscope and I want to connect it to NI LabView 2016. The problem is that Measurement & Automation Explorer does not see this model neither by USB, nor by RS-232. In the oscilloscope system menu item "Back USB" there are only two options available: "Printer" and "Computer", but there is no option "USBTMC". There is no firmware update for this model at the Siglent website. Could you help me to resolve this problem, please.
Welcome to the forum.

Which drivers are you using ?
For Matlab there a list of them here:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=204&page=2 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=204&page=2)
But the CML+ version is not there.  :( For LAN support we'll need a dedicated version as the non + versions didn't have LAN. I'll ask at Siglent to find the solution for you.....maybe you can use the CML version I do not know.
When you set the rear USB to Computer this is the correct for your needs.

I have a second beta firmware for the CML+ but Siglent are still working on firmware for public release and we will announce it here when it's available.

It may be ~12 hrs before I get a reply from the factory.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Dmitrii on January 17, 2017, 08:40:16 pm
I use driver supplied with scope on CD disk (uowrd.inf, uowrd.sys)

and

Certified LabVIEW Plug and Play (project-style) Instrument Driver "Siglent SDS 1000 2000 Series Oscilloscope"
http://sine.ni.com/apps/utf8/niid_web_display.download_page?p_id_guid=1CB43FDA346F59D2E05400144FF93680 (http://sine.ni.com/apps/utf8/niid_web_display.download_page?p_id_guid=1CB43FDA346F59D2E05400144FF93680)

The EasyScope 3 connects to the scope, but it works with glitches. The LabView does not see the scope at all.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on January 18, 2017, 09:22:57 am
I use driver supplied with scope on CD disk (uowrd.inf, uowrd.sys)

and

Certified LabVIEW Plug and Play (project-style) Instrument Driver "Siglent SDS 1000 2000 Series Oscilloscope"
http://sine.ni.com/apps/utf8/niid_web_display.download_page?p_id_guid=1CB43FDA346F59D2E05400144FF93680 (http://sine.ni.com/apps/utf8/niid_web_display.download_page?p_id_guid=1CB43FDA346F59D2E05400144FF93680)

The EasyScope 3 connects to the scope, but it works with glitches. The LabView does not see the scope at all.
I will spend some time on this for you in a few days when my new stocks of SDS1102+ come in. At this time Siglent have not finished the Matlab drivers for these CML+ models.  >:(
Until then please be patient, I am busy shaking trees and hoping the right fruits will fall.  ;)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on January 19, 2017, 04:43:34 am
SDS1k CML+ and SDS1kDL+ firmware:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=15 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=15)

No Changelogs as this is the first firmware since these updated models were released.  :(
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Aeternam on January 19, 2017, 09:12:19 am
Tautech, any pointers on a european release date for Siglent's new 6 1/2 digit DMM?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Dmitrii on January 19, 2017, 09:33:57 am
SDS1k CML+ and SDS1kDL+ firmware:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=15 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=15)

No Changelogs as this is the first firmware since these updated models were released.  :(

Is the firmware for SDS1k CML+ suitable for CNL+ version? My scope is CNL+.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: illyesgeza on January 19, 2017, 01:23:18 pm
it shoud be, because the cnl+ (no long mem) and cml+ (short and long mem) in "short mem" mode logicaly must be the same.
Unfortunately this upgrade is not compatible with the plan cnl or cml versions.
I'd like to ask SIGLENT if there is or it will be an other version above the 5.01.02.32, because this one is full of bugs in long mem mode
 
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Dmitrii on January 19, 2017, 04:54:38 pm
SDS1k CML+ and SDS1kDL+ firmware:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=15 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=15)

No Changelogs as this is the first firmware since these updated models were released.  :(

I tried this firmware, but it was not recognized by my scope SDS1202CNL+. When I tried to update from USB flash, the error "Product Type is not accordant!" was occurred.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on January 19, 2017, 05:10:45 pm
SDS1k CML+ and SDS1kDL+ firmware:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=15 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=15)

No Changelogs as this is the first firmware since these updated models were released.  :(

I tried this firmware, but it was not recognized by my scope SDS1202CNL+. When I tried to update from USB flash, the error "Product Type is not accordant!" was occurred.
Thanks good to know, thank you.....risky and I wouldn't have tried or recommended it until we had confirmation from the factory.
I was thinking the same as illyesgeza and checked the old versions too, just to make sure.
I sent a query to the USA about this a short time ago as the factory is sound asleep ATM but now we know from your test we must wait for CNL+ firmware.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on January 19, 2017, 05:19:21 pm
Tautech, any pointers on a european release date for Siglent's new 6 1/2 digit DMM?
Worldwide release will be at the same time, it will only be shipping delays and shipping times that will stagger any market release dates.

Date ? sorry no, I am not privy to it.

I believe it was on show at the Hamburg fair late last year.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on January 20, 2017, 12:01:11 pm
Tautech, any pointers on a european release date for Siglent's new 6 1/2 digit DMM?
Worldwide release will be at the same time, it will only be shipping delays and shipping times that will stagger any market release dates.

Date ? sorry no, I am not privy to it.

I believe it was on show at the Hamburg fair late last year.

Next chinese year!
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on January 23, 2017, 03:31:56 pm
SDS1k CML+ and SDS1kDL+ firmware:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=15 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj.aspx?id=15)

No Changelogs as this is the first firmware since these updated models were released.  :(

PM Sent

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: illyesgeza on January 25, 2017, 12:48:03 pm
Hello
Below are some screen shots. On the fourth you can see the problem.
The bug is related to a wrong setted delay for the PRETRIGGER and the settings of the POSTTRIGGER in
LONG MEM mode.
I ask anyone who have a SDS1102CML or SDS1102CML+ to reproduce my simple test and post  the result.
Here are the steps:
Set the DSO trigger option to NORMAL, the time base to 100us, the memory depth to NORMAL (short) and
1.)apply to channel one the 1kHz test signal from the DSO
on the screen will apare fig1.
2.) push the SINGLE button on the DSO; after a short time will apare fig2 (with the RUN/STOP button litting red)
3.) push again the SINGLE button and select the memory depth LongMem; now you will see fig3.
Untill this momemnt everything is ok
4.) Push the SINGLE button and it will apare fig4. or something else , more confuseing
On my fourth screenshot(fig4) it is obvious that in the PRETRIGGER zone (left to the middle of the screen) are to few good samples,
most of them are leftovers form a previus acquisition, or worse , some unknown memory content.
Once I got a WAVEFORM in wich were all the content of the DSO's flash memmory.
This problem is since i bought the DSO many years ago.
I'm not convinced about that the problem is solved in the newer DSOs.
That's why I ask to make the test on any CML or CML+
The bug is present on LECROY WAVEACE to.

 

 
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: StillTrying on January 25, 2017, 01:46:45 pm
most of them are leftovers form a previus acquisition, or worse , some unknown memory content.
Once I got a WAVEFORM in wich were all the content of the DSO's flash memmory.
This problem is since i bought the DSO many years ago.
I'm not convinced about that the problem is solved in the newer DSOs.
That's why I ask to make the test on any CML or CML+

Sounds very similar to what I get on the CML+ on Long Memory.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-cml-firmware/msg1091615/#msg1091615 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-cml-firmware/msg1091615/#msg1091615)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: illyesgeza on January 25, 2017, 02:13:17 pm
I allready told this problem to SIGLENT but the response is always the same, to use the latest firmware but that is for cml+ with larger screen, not suitable for plain cml
I hope that if somebody else than me will support my opinion about this bug in that case probable SIGLENT will solve the problem
Now the LONG MEM (2mega points) is useless
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on January 25, 2017, 08:03:00 pm
PM sent
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: StillTrying on January 27, 2017, 04:03:09 am
That's why I ask to make the test on any CML or CML+

Your (hard to follow) 1 to 4 seems to work correctly as I would expect on the CML+.

Maybe related, AFAICT the CML+'s LongMemory only works fully on SINGLE. While running/READY it seems to be using only around 400K of the 2M memory, with a lower sample rate than displayed! (I know LM is 500MSa/s max.)
With the memory bar looking like the attached, I only have about X 2 contraction, on expansion I haven't got 100 samples/us either!
An expurt is needed to figure out how LongMemory works.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: illyesgeza on January 27, 2017, 12:06:06 pm
No one have to be an expert to know if you have 2Mega memory than you have to use it fully no matter with what kind of samplerate
I also understand if you have two sets of memory on the same hardware (like SIGLENT's CML series) it is hard to switch them.
But once you have decided to make such a device and you sell it saying that it has 2 Mega memory you can't tell that sorry it use only x mega.
I am not angry because  there is not used the entire address space, I am angry about that this fact is not documented.
In LongMem mode using the TEMPLATE structure you can't find where the trigger point is, nor at what address begin the trace and where is ending.
This problem is not a hardware problem. It is a software one since in shortmem(40k) everything is ok.
I have explained in detail to SIGLENT how I imagine to solve it. I sincerely hope that it will be solved
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: pantelei4 on February 04, 2017, 08:32:46 am
Siglent shs806 normal mode and long memory problems.
I'll point these issues to Tech support.
Did they ever meet, and as always, it is not our cow? |O :--
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on February 04, 2017, 08:38:22 am
Siglent shs806 normal mode and long memory problems.
I'll point these issues to Tech support.
Did they ever meet, and as always, it is not our cow? |O :--
I have no answers for you at this time as the factory is on their New Year break but they will be back next week.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: pantelei4 on February 05, 2017, 08:29:14 am
I think, Siglent no longer release new firmware because violated copyright Fluke. The device has a lot of software bugs, and the manufacturer does not correct them.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on February 05, 2017, 08:48:41 am
I think, Siglent no longer release new firmware because violated copyright Fluke. The device has a lot of software bugs, and the manufacturer does not correct them.
:-DD

Whatever gives you that idea ?  :-//

Can I ask if you have reported any problems to Siglent directly ?
How long have you had your SHS806 ?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ebastler on February 05, 2017, 08:56:12 am
I think, Siglent no longer release new firmware because violated copyright Fluke.
It's not even yellow, so why would it?!  :P
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on February 05, 2017, 09:03:29 am
I think, Siglent no longer release new firmware because violated copyright Fluke.
It's not even yellow, so why would it?!  :P
Correct, the SHS800 series are blue and the SHS1000 isolated channel models are orange.

(http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Picture/Product/SHS800/SHS820-0.png)

(http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Picture/Product/SHS1000/SHS1000-0.png)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: pantelei4 on February 05, 2017, 11:11:48 am
Can I ask if you have reported any problems to Siglent directly ?
How long have you had your SHS806 ?
We do not have Siglent representative, contact the seller useless. The device I had more than a year.
The latest firmware 2015.
In this forum, many posts about software flaws, only one eliminated. The device is available for more than 5 years, and the manufacturer has done nothing.
SHS800 / 1000 is not popular is because of the bugs.

Why they do not correct them? :-//
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: pantelei4 on February 05, 2017, 11:22:12 am
tautech, You Siglent Distributor, let's see how quickly they respond to your appeal.  :)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: spano on February 05, 2017, 09:03:34 pm
I updated "Atten ADS1202CL+" oscilloscope with "Siglent SDS1000CNL" firmware. Now functions work good. But the Time/Div Not Valid!
I tested oscilloscope with 1Khz.
Frequency show 1Khz But when calculate with Time/Div Frequency = 40Hz.
can back to Atten firmware?
if No how it fix?
Many thanks in advance for any answers.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: MikeLogix on February 06, 2017, 07:12:59 am
I have 4 pieces of Siglent Gear, and as far as customer service goes...

When I had a problem with my SSA unit, Siglent America was Johnny on the spot at getting me back on line. A dude named Rocco was exceptionally helpful and responded to my questions and concerns quickly.

For me, customer service is of major concern when selecting gear, and I have found Siglent America to be very responsive in pleasing the customer.

On a less positive note, I found the SSA user manual to be awful. It was something like, and this is not quoted from the manual but just to give you an idea.
The BW key is used for selecting bandwidth. This was not in the manual but was written that way to show how useless the manual is. In my opinion of course.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on February 06, 2017, 07:48:22 am
I have 4 pieces of Siglent Gear, and as far as customer service goes...

When I had a problem with my SSA unit, Siglent America was Johnny on the spot at getting me back on line. A dude named Rocco was exceptionally helpful and responded to my questions and concerns quickly.

For me, customer service is of major concern when selecting gear, and I have found Siglent America to be very responsive in pleasing the customer.

On a less positive note, I found the SSA user manual to be awful. It was something like, and this is not quoted from the manual but just to give you an idea.
The BW key is used for selecting bandwidth. This was not in the manual but was written that way to show how useless the manual is. In my opinion of course.
The US GM will be notified of your comments Mike, he has been quite active in getting documentation to a better standard. I advise you keep an eye in the Siglent User Manuals webpage as manual revisions do change from time to time.
http://www.siglentamerica.com/down.aspx?id=12 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/down.aspx?id=12)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: aydinay on February 09, 2017, 07:12:49 pm
I recently purchased an SDS 1102X SPO and I am having problems connecting the oscilloscope to the PC through the 'USB Device (USBTMC)' connection port at the back of oscilloscope (below the LAN port).

The problem is that the PC "does not even see" a device connected through the USB. My OS is 'Windows 7 SP1' but I have tried it with a 'Windows 10' machine as well and run into the same issue. The firmware of the oscilloscope was up to date when I purchased it and I tried installing different versions (USB host works fine) of the firmware and repeat the same process and still having the same issue. I also tried with a different cable.

During the trials, I also do select the USB Device USBTMC option from I/O Set on the oscilloscope.

Your help is much appreciated, thank you.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on February 09, 2017, 07:32:01 pm
PM Sent
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on February 09, 2017, 07:34:17 pm
I recently purchased an SDS 1102X SPO and I am having problems connecting the oscilloscope to the PC through the 'USB Device (USBTMC)' connection port at the back of oscilloscope (below the LAN port).

The problem is that the PC "does not even see" a device connected through the USB. My OS is 'Windows 7 SP1' but I have tried it with a 'Windows 10' machine as well and run into the same issue. The firmware of the oscilloscope was up to date when I purchased it and I tried installing different versions (USB host works fine) of the firmware and repeat the same process and still having the same issue. I also tried with a different cable.

Your help is much appreciated, thank you.
Welcome to the forum.

For LAN and USB connectivity you need to install the NI VISA Runtime package, the instructions for which are in the EasyScope package on the CD. Within the NI package are dedicated drivers for each Siglent model.
Please find a small doc that I prepared to assist with problems like yours.
Let us know how you get on after studying the EasyScope instructions and the doc.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on February 09, 2017, 07:42:53 pm
A Tesla Coil kit you can buy on eBay.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e55U8MZh7DA&feature=em-upload_owner (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e55U8MZh7DA&feature=em-upload_owner)

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: aydinay on February 09, 2017, 11:01:48 pm
I recently purchased an SDS 1102X SPO and I am having problems connecting the oscilloscope to the PC through the 'USB Device (USBTMC)' connection port at the back of oscilloscope (below the LAN port).

The problem is that the PC "does not even see" a device connected through the USB. My OS is 'Windows 7 SP1' but I have tried it with a 'Windows 10' machine as well and run into the same issue. The firmware of the oscilloscope was up to date when I purchased it and I tried installing different versions (USB host works fine) of the firmware and repeat the same process and still having the same issue. I also tried with a different cable.

Your help is much appreciated, thank you.
Welcome to the forum.

For LAN and USB connectivity you need to install the NI VISA Runtime package, the instructions for which are in the EasyScope package on the CD. Within the NI package are dedicated drivers for each Siglent model.
Please find a small doc that I prepared to assist with problems like yours.
Let us know how you get on after studying the EasyScope instructions and the doc.

Thank you for your help. I get around this problem by connecting my scope through LAN, the USB, unfortunately, does not still work.

I am facing a problem when sending commands through EasyscopeX. The problem, I believe, is that the oscilloscope can not locate the root location for my USB disk.

When I try: DIR? DISK, UDSK
It returns: DIR DISK,UDSK,"A:

0 File(s), 0 DIR(s)
"

Likewise, when I try to store channel 1 to disk by: STO C1, UDSK
It fails and I can read "Cannot open file" on the oscilloscope screen as it fails to locate the usb drive.

Note that the USB disk is inserted, I can store images manually using the buttons on the oscilloscope but I cannot do it using the remote commands. The remote commands also work fine for some operations, eg. when I type: *IDN?, the scope succesfully returns: *IDN SIGLENT,SDS1102X,SDS1XDC4163536,1.1.2.13 R5. However, the ones related to "Mass Storage" do not work.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on February 09, 2017, 11:59:41 pm
Thank you for your help. I get around this problem by connecting my scope through LAN, the USB, unfortunately, does not still work.
Yes, Windows will have used some other device driver NOT the one listed in the doc I linked.
You need get into the USB port properties and point Windows to the correct driver within the correct folder.

Edit
Attached file may offer further guidance. (remove .doc extension)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on February 10, 2017, 01:03:41 am
@aydinay

While having a look at further help for you I see there is a quite new version of EasyScopeX that you might not have on your CD.
http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5012&tid=14 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5012&tid=14)

Note it now includes the MS .net framework needed instead of having to download and install it separately.  :-+
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: VenomUA on March 09, 2017, 07:51:04 pm
Hello!
I address to you with a problem.
Please help me, do not ignore my request.

I use the oscilloscope SDS1102CML + (Serial number: SDS10BA2162696).

Recently I found that on the website http://siglentamerica.com (http://siglentamerica.com) there was an update of the firmware for this oscilloscope.

I downloaded this firmware http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5074&tid=15 (http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5074&tid=15)

And now, after updating the firmware (from a flash drive, as written in the manual), the oscilloscope is not loaded. The Siglent logo appears and nothing happens.

In the document with the firmware file it is written that the first version was 6.01.01.08.
But in my device, the last digit of the firmware version was 13. The first digits, unfortunately, I did not remember.

I understand that I failed the oscilloscope. Maybe it was not worth it. I do not know what to do now.

Please help to revive the oscilloscope. I really hope for your help.

Sorry for my english, I'm using an translator.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 09, 2017, 08:02:46 pm
Hello!
I address to you with a problem.
Please help me, do not ignore my request.

I use the oscilloscope SDS1102CML + (Serial number: SDS10BA2162696).

Recently I found that on the website http://siglentamerica.com (http://siglentamerica.com) there was an update of the firmware for this oscilloscope.

I downloaded this firmware http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5074&tid=15 (http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5074&tid=15)

And now, after updating the firmware (from a flash drive, as written in the manual), the oscilloscope is not loaded. The Siglent logo appears and nothing happens.

In the document with the firmware file it is written that the first version was 6.01.01.08.
But in my device, the last digit of the firmware version was 13. The first digits, unfortunately, I did not remember.

I understand that I failed the oscilloscope. Maybe it was not worth it. I do not know what to do now.

Please help to revive the oscilloscope. I really hope for your help.

Sorry for my english, I'm using an translator.
Welcome to the forum.

1.18 is the first official FW update since the CML Plus was released. There have been others but they were Beta versions.

For your frozen boot do this.
After power on press the Math button quickly and repeatedly until the scope moves past the logo screen.
It may need more than 1 attempt.

Please inform us of the outcome.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: VenomUA on March 09, 2017, 08:10:14 pm
Thanks for the quick response.
Unfortunately, nothing happens. I tried to hold Math button, quickly and repeatedly press. The loading is frozen on the Siglent logo.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 09, 2017, 08:13:50 pm
Thanks for the quick response.
Unfortunately, nothing happens. I tried to hold Math button, quickly and repeatedly press. The loading is frozen on the Siglent logo.
It should work, please try some more times, the presses must be fast. (do not hold)

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: VenomUA on March 09, 2017, 08:25:35 pm
Honestly, I tried to do it many times. Nothing happens. Once upon a time, there was a case that the oscilloscope hung in the measurement. I did this operation, as you advise and it worked. The program reset to factory settings.

But now it does not work. I'm afraid I ruined the firmware.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 09, 2017, 08:32:20 pm
Honestly, I tried to do it many times. Nothing happens. Once upon a time, there was a case that the oscilloscope hung in the measurement. I did this operation, as you advise and it worked. The program reset to factory settings.

But now it does not work. I'm afraid I ruined the firmware.
:(

I think you will need to contact your supplier for a warranty claim.
I will link your posts to Siglent in Hamburg....expect them to contact you by PM.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: VenomUA on March 09, 2017, 08:41:16 pm
Thanks for the support.
I do not know who is the official representative of Siglent in my country.
The seller from whom I bought this oscilloscope will not help me. He is just a seller of the measuring instrument.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 09, 2017, 09:48:12 pm
Thanks for the support.
I do not know who is the official representative of Siglent in my country.
The seller from whom I bought this oscilloscope will not help me. He is just a seller of the measuring instrument.
Official EU resellers are listed here:
http://www.siglenteu.com/howtobuy.aspx (http://www.siglenteu.com/howtobuy.aspx)

For Ukraine:
ProsteerGroup Ltd
49A Polevaya Str. Kyiv 03058, Ukraine
38 044 457 29 10
sales@masteram.ua
http://masteram.ua (http://masteram.ua)

general-test
12-V Borispolskaya str. app.5 02099, Kiev-99, Ukraine
38 044 5764991
info@general-test.com.ua
www.general-test.com.ua (http://www.general-test.com.ua)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: VenomUA on March 09, 2017, 10:05:49 pm
Thank you. I wrote about my problem to one distributor. I hope he can help me somehow.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: VenomUA on March 09, 2017, 11:15:52 pm
While I'm waiting for an answer from the distributor, I want to ask.
Perhaps, in these oscilloscopes there is a possibility to update the firmware via the RS232 port? Maybe there is some software for this purpose? Or through the terminal somehow to update the firmware?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 09, 2017, 11:33:28 pm
While I'm waiting for an answer from the distributor, I want to ask.
Perhaps, in these oscilloscopes there is a possibility to update the firmware via the RS232 port? Maybe there is some software for this purpose? Or through the terminal somehow to update the firmware?
Unknown.
Please wait for contact from Siglent Hamburg or China.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 21, 2017, 09:17:54 am
New firmware version 2R7 for the SHS800 and SHS1000 handheld DSO/DMM's.
SHS1000
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SHS1000_V100R003B01D02P02R7.ADS (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SHS1000_V100R003B01D02P02R7.ADS)

SHS800_Update (Bandwidth:60M/100M/150M)
http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5192&tid=15 (http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5192&tid=15)

SHS800 (200 MHz models)
http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5191&tid=15 (http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5191&tid=15)

For both series the Continuity buzzer response has been improved:

Modify the buzzer drive mode under the multimeter module (The drive mode is changed to be driven directly by the multimeter chip instead of the DSP driver).
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Andbyk on March 21, 2017, 12:07:16 pm
I installed new version 2R7 on my SHS810. Very interesting picture I see on the screen after upgrading! :-//
Input signal does from internal test generator of SHS810.
I'll be back to old version 2R3! :clap:
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 21, 2017, 08:04:19 pm
I installed new version 2R7 on my SHS810. Very interesting picture I see on the screen after upgrading! :-//
Input signal does from internal test generator of SHS810.
I'll be back to old version 2R3! :clap:
Yep, 2R7 has been pulled off the website it seems.  :-//

I noticed this newer version when installing new PCB's in a 806 that had been damaged.
When enquiring about 2R7 I was told they'd make it available .....I don't know if was a beta or not but it obviously hadn't been properly checked.  ::)
You and me both will be checking the replacement version.  :-\
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Andbyk on March 22, 2017, 06:37:24 am
I installed new version 2R7 on my SHS810. Very interesting picture I see on the screen after upgrading! :-//
Input signal does from internal test generator of SHS810.
I'll be back to old version 2R3! :clap:
Yep, 2R7 has been pulled off the website it seems.  :-//

I noticed this newer version when installing new PCB's in a 806 that had been damaged.
When enquiring about 2R7 I was told they'd make it available .....I don't know if was a beta or not but it obviously hadn't been properly checked.  ::)
You and me both will be checking the replacement version.  :-\

I see that 2R7 is till available on http://siglentamerica.com/prodcut-gjjrj.aspx?id=94&tid=2&T=2 (http://siglentamerica.com/prodcut-gjjrj.aspx?id=94&tid=2&T=2)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Andbyk on March 22, 2017, 10:24:37 am
OK! Thank you tautech!
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on March 22, 2017, 07:56:18 pm
Hi "Siglent Technical Support",

Can you help with this:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1102x-serial-decoder-not-decoding-properly/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1102x-serial-decoder-not-decoding-properly/)

?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Andbyk on March 24, 2017, 05:09:45 am
Hi tautech! Could you please tell me about "new PCB's" for SHS800 devices? Is this hardware upgrade? How much cost of such upgrade?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 25, 2017, 08:06:03 am
Hi tautech! Could you please tell me about "new PCB's" for SHS800 devices? Is this hardware upgrade? How much cost of such upgrade?
It was a repair of a customers damaged unit. No upgrade, replaced with same as badged BW.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: pantelei4 on March 27, 2017, 01:52:40 pm
Do not use this firmware, it has problems for older HW.
SHS800
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SHS800_V100R003B01D02P02R7.ADS (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SHS800_V100R003B01D02P02R7.ADS)
For HW version 1-31-3.3, does the new firmware not work?

For both series the Continuity buzzer response has been improved:
Is this all a change? :-DD
And what about the normal trigger mode?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 27, 2017, 05:49:28 pm
Do not use this firmware, it has problems for older HW.
SHS800
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SHS800_V100R003B01D02P02R7.ADS (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SHS800_V100R003B01D02P02R7.ADS)
For HW version 1-31-3.3, does the new firmware not work?

For both series the Continuity buzzer response has been improved:
Is this all a change? :-DD
And what about the normal trigger mode?
Post #593 edited and updated with correct links.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: pantelei4 on March 27, 2017, 07:36:02 pm
tautech, Please tell us how to properly update the firmware, so as not to make a brick?
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/FAQ/SHS/upgrade_the_latest_firmware.pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/FAQ/SHS/upgrade_the_latest_firmware.pdf)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 28, 2017, 02:28:05 am
tautech, Please tell us how to properly update the firmware, so as not to make a brick?
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/FAQ/SHS/upgrade_the_latest_firmware.pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/FAQ/SHS/upgrade_the_latest_firmware.pdf)
Yes, it is a little confusing but if you press the > (right) button the incorrect file warning disappears.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=303211)

You have correctly navigated to the firmware update file from within the UI, it's highlighted (selected) and now press "Load" (F4). Prompts after this point are self explanatory and the SHS will ask to be power cycled when the update is finished.

Firmware load failures mostly arise from power interruptions while updating but the for the SHS series you do have the inbuilt battery should there be a power failure.
Some use a UPS for power security while updating and that's a good safeguard but without one try to resist doing updates in stormy weather when power failures are more likely.

As a footnote the new 2R7 FW now works as expected in my SHS810.  :)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: pantelei4 on March 28, 2017, 04:57:40 am
Yes, I updated the firmware. Scaling in the normal mode of the trigger does not work, as before. The buzzer is intermittent, the continuity is unusable. |O
Siglent kicked the programmers out of the work, who did the firmware? :o

They made a bad color gamut when the screen is inverted, you can not read the menu. And many more bugs.  |O
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 28, 2017, 05:15:57 am
Yes, I updated the firmware. Scaling in the normal mode of the trigger does not work, as before. The buzzer is intermittent, the continuity is unusable. |O
Siglent kicked the programmers out of the work, who did the firmware? :o

They made a bad color gamut when the screen is inverted, you can not read the menu. And many more bugs.  |O
Please make a detailed list with each bug, describe it and how to replicate it.
Screenshots are useful too, please post any that better show the problems than text does.
All this is what the engineers find the most helpful.

Post the list here or PM it to me, either way I will bring it to their attention.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: pantelei4 on March 28, 2017, 06:04:53 am
SHS806 On the old and new firmware equally.
1.Noise at inputs without signal
2.Delay between channels, the same signal at the inputs.
3-6.Interpolation sin? one picture with different time/div
7. No interference, which is not, 10kHz ??  :-//
Does Siglent have no engineer to see it?  |O
Let him pay me for testing their bad firmware.
This is not all, there are more than a dozen bugs.
 With such shortcomings SHS series of oscilloscopes should be generally forbidden. :--


Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on March 28, 2017, 07:46:22 am
While you are at it pass them this one too with a footnote: "SDS1102X can't decode, thank you very much"
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 28, 2017, 08:26:19 am
Emails sent.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Tjuurko on March 28, 2017, 10:39:09 am
SDM3055 and problems with temperature measurement.

SDM3055 fw: 1.01.01.16R2

For example, the dependence of the resistance measurement on a 2-wire circuit is plotted against time. Moments of switching ranges can be seen. (see R.png)

1. Switch to TEMP (PT100). Switching moments became very visible. The switching time is about ~700 ms. (see T.png)

2. When measuring the temperature using the PT100, the entire range is divided into two automatically selected sections: (-200.00 ... + 379.50) °C and (+266.34 ... + 850.00) °C. Nowhere is this moment reflected.

3. Each resistance measurement by the SCPI command blocks the operation of the temperature meter (PT100) by ~800 ms.
For example, such a cycle of commands will only record the change in resistance, the temperature will not change.

CONF:RES AUTO
READ?
CONF:TEMP RTD,PT100
READ?

After the end of the cycle, the temperature will start to change and be measured correctly only after ~50 measurements.

4. I would like to get a 4-wire temperature measurement for the PT100.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: pantelei4 on March 28, 2017, 11:00:31 am
Siglent series SHS800/1000
7. Math scale 100nV By default and changes are not remembered the next time you start.  |O
8. Probe 10X ?nd other coefficients, except 1X, are not taken into account in the calculation Math channel and Skope Trend Plot.
In the screenshot CH1+CH2  2V/djv Math scale 200mV/div  |O
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: DazA1 on March 28, 2017, 03:05:57 pm
As another SHS806/1062 user i would like to add a few of the bugs i found.


- I agree with pantelei4 the probe settings (X10 X100) are ignored in Scope Trend Plot mode.

- The trend CSV files (both meter & scope trends) are not time/date stamped which makes it harder to plot and understand later.

- The filter turns off once the scope is triggered or if you press the Run/Stop button and then you have to go back to turn it on again.

- When saving a BMP image sometimes the waveforms would disappear from the screen for a second and the saved BMP image would have no waveforms in it.

- In inverted screen colours mode it is difficult to read the values when you select All Measurements in cursor measure mode (yellow text on a light green background).

- and the last one (maybe if someone else can test this on theirs) when measuring a 9V battery in meter trend mode moving the cursors around you can get the voltage to briefly drop to exactly 1.000mV.


I think there maybe a problem with EMC susceptibility as when using it on industrial control panels it seems to lock up or not save files properly. In these panels there can be thyristors and IGBT's switching heater banks and motors. I don't use it enough in that environment to be a 100% sure though.

Overall i like my Siglent SHS scopes but the firmware does seem to let them down. And before anyone asks i have sent emails to Siglent but i got told we are looking into it (2015 & 2016) so i gave up, maybe if everyone with a Siglent SHS scope adds there bugs to this list maybe something will be done.



Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on March 28, 2017, 03:16:49 pm
Thank you for your comments.
We in the USA are familiar with a couple of these issues but I have passed your list on the the product manager and VP.

Thanks again.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Andbyk on March 29, 2017, 06:10:01 am
maybe if everyone with a Siglent SHS scope adds there bugs to this list maybe something will be done.

I have the rebranding version of SHS810 for Russia named AKIP4125/2 since 2014. Plus to mentioned bugs I would like add my favorite pain - storage system. I wrote about https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-shs810-saverecall-problem/msg706464/#msg706464 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-shs810-saverecall-problem/msg706464/#msg706464)
Since 2016 Russian distributor of Siglent's devices don't sold AKIP4125/2 anymore and changed name to AKIP4125/2A.
I asked they which difference beetwen devices. They said - we don't know exactly, but specification the same.
I guess, Siglent fixed some bugs in hardware of SHS800 and new devices don't has old problems. ;)
I don't beleve that Siglent will  be do anything for repair old  version devices :(
I use some usefull properties of SHS810 for floating measurements and works in field and don't require more from it. Device's battery enouth for 3-4 hour of working.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 29, 2017, 06:28:30 am
I guess, Siglent fixed some bugs in hardware of SHS800 and new devices don't has old problems. ;)
I don't beleve that Siglent will  be do anything for repair old  version devices :(
I use some usefull properties of SHS810 for floating measurements and works in field and don't require more from it. Device's battery enouth for 3-4 hour of working.
My personal SHS810 has a 2013 production date and the latest firmware makes no distinction of when the unit was made. So use the new firmware in any SHS but unfortunately the new firmware apparently only improved the Continuity test response.  :(

So yes, we expect more improvements but they can be only as good as the quality of feedback to the engineers.
Got what you think is a bug, then list it here.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Andbyk on March 29, 2017, 07:15:58 am

My personal SHS810 has a 2013 production date and the latest firmware makes no distinction of when the unit was made. So use the new firmware in any SHS but unfortunately the new firmware apparently only improved the Continuity test response.  :(
I installed 2R7 version but don't see any difference from 2R2.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: pantelei4 on March 29, 2017, 08:16:42 am
So use the new firmware in any SHS but unfortunately the new firmware apparently only improved the Continuity test response.  :(
Good hardware was spoiled by bad firmware. |O
We must make Siglent fix all the bugs. :horse:  >:D
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 29, 2017, 08:41:50 am
So use the new firmware in any SHS but unfortunately the new firmware apparently only improved the Continuity test response.  :(
Good hardware was spoiled by bad firmware. |O
We must make Siglent fix all the bugs. :horse:  >:D
Are you saying the new firmware created all the issues you have reported and they were not there before ?
To get good results we must give good detailed feedback.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: pantelei4 on March 29, 2017, 09:01:02 am
Are you saying the new firmware created all the issues you have reported and they were not there before ?
The same problems were with the old firmware.
2R7 version don't  any difference from 2R2.
I wanted to say that bugs corrupt a good device.
I like it, but I often want to break it against the wall.   >:D
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on March 29, 2017, 12:26:26 pm
The "bug" was actually just a slower-than-desired continuity beeper function. We made a hardware modification that also required the FW update and the difference is obvious. Units that have shipped in the last year or so have included this new HW. Upgrading an older design to the newer FW will have no effect on the instrument.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: pantelei4 on March 29, 2017, 01:20:52 pm
We made a hardware modification that also required the FW update and the difference is obvious.
What should I solder?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on March 29, 2017, 02:18:10 pm
We made a hardware modification that also required the FW update and the difference is obvious.
What should I solder?

The new board has more than one component changed or added as well as a new etch or jumper.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: StillTrying on March 29, 2017, 10:10:22 pm
I'm amazed at how may bugs there are in my CML+.  :o

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-cml-firmware/25/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-cml-firmware/25/)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 30, 2017, 08:30:01 am
While you are at it pass them this one too with a footnote: "SDS1102X can't decode, thank you very much"
Initial feedback from the factory is at timebases slower than 10ms there is a problem that the engineers are looking at.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on March 30, 2017, 09:02:44 am
While you are at it pass them this one too with a footnote: "SDS1102X can't decode, thank you very much"
Initial feedback from the factory is at timebases slower than 10ms there is a problem that the engineers are looking at.

Yes, error need urgently and perfectly fix - and at once without training rounds .
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on April 15, 2017, 10:25:14 pm
From the SDG2042X thread:
Hello zorromen,

We tried to post the answer here but we had three screen shots and it took up too much room.

We did find the problem. Please contact us at
info@siglent.com
and we will help you out on this.
Hence the need for a faster FW roll out of alternative and smaller file types for screenshots. (png etc)
These have been promised for a while and many of us have had quite enough of compressing imagery for online screenshots. Get a move on Siglent.
Further thoughts on the subject for other saved/printed file types for Siglent DSO's.

While default and only file type currently is BMP, the file size is large so that it takes some time to transfer to a USB stick and if any conversion to a smaller file type was to put additional load on the processor and add lag to the save file time it may be somewhat negated by the much smaller file and subsequent lesser transfer time.

Should there be some penalty of extended file processing time despite there being a smaller file to transfer I would be happy to pay that price for a much smaller and more manageable file size and type. Most users I suspect would be happy if there was some small delay price to pay.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on April 28, 2017, 01:07:04 pm
Some new information on several Siglent products that I thought might be of interest:

  1) Open socket communication with Python        Application With Script

  2) Verify an open socket LAN connection using Telnet     Application Note

  3) Verify remote control connection using NI-MAX      Application Note

These can be found at
http://siglentamerica.com/prodcut-pxzl.aspx?id=5109&tid=1&T=2 (http://siglentamerica.com/prodcut-pxzl.aspx?id=5109&tid=1&T=2)


Also, new firmware for the SDS1000X/X+ oscilloscopes (V1.1.1.2.15E3) is located at
http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5270&tid=1 (http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5270&tid=1)

Finally, an update on open socket communications with Siglent products:
Open socket for the SSA3000X spectrum analyzer is currently supported in the latest firmware.
We have more on the way, including the new SDS1202X-E. I do not have a date on those yet. The SDM3045X, SDM3055, and SDM3065X DMMs are being tested now.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: KeBeNe on April 28, 2017, 06:23:08 pm
Hello,

will there be the open socket LAN connection also for the SDS2000X series?

regards René
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on April 28, 2017, 06:30:19 pm
Hello,

will there be the open socket LAN connection also for the SDS2000X series?

regards René

No, there won't be open socket on the SDS2000X but there will be on the new SDS1202X-E.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: KeBeNe on April 29, 2017, 06:04:22 am
Will there be an update for the 2000X series to enable this?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on May 01, 2017, 12:18:02 pm
No, the SDS2000X oscilloscope family will not have open socket capabilities at any point, as far as I know.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: KeBeNe on May 02, 2017, 01:37:32 am
Will it get this?
If not, why not?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ebastler on May 02, 2017, 03:50:58 am
will there be the open socket LAN connection also for the SDS2000X series?

No, there won't be open socket on the SDS2000X but there will be on the new SDS1202X-E.

Will there be an update for the 2000X series to enable this?

No, the SDS2000X oscilloscope family will not have open socket capabilities at any point, as far as I know.

Will it get this?

 |O
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Kilrah on May 02, 2017, 07:20:01 am
What part of "NO" don't you understand?  :palm:
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on May 02, 2017, 08:54:53 am
What part of "NO" don't you understand?  :palm:
I too don't like the no answer and have sent a question to Siglent asking why.  :-//
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Mentor on May 03, 2017, 07:34:09 pm
Hi, I´m new to this forum and got this configuration:

- SDS1152CML
- Windows 10 creators
- Visa16 full

Attached captures of whats going on. Device is recognized in device manager, can send commands and get answers from the scope but when I try to open the virtual panel it hangs the scope forever, have to cycle power to get it to work again.
Any clue? Thanks.

P.D.: Sorry for the Language Controller screenshot.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on May 03, 2017, 07:47:28 pm
Hi, I´m new to this forum and got this configuration:

- SDS1152CML
- Windows 10 creators
- Visa16 full

Attached captures of whats going on. Device is recognized in device manager, can send commands and get answers from the scope but when I try to open the virtual panel it hangs the scope forever, have to cycle power to get it to work again.
Any clue? Thanks.

P.D.: Sorry for the Language Controller screenshot.
Welcome to the forum.

Can you please post the EasyScopeX version # ? The latest is 16 and it has the MS .NET files added in the package that are needed as part of the install.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Mentor on May 04, 2017, 03:15:45 am
Hi again, sorry forgot to post. I got the version V100R001B02D01P16.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on May 04, 2017, 03:42:27 am
Hi again, sorry forgot to post. I got the version V100R001B02D01P16.

Thanks.
I have some questions to the factory about a problem we see too. I will update you when I have some answers.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Joel_l on May 05, 2017, 01:34:44 am
@Siglent - feature request

Hi,

I recently bought an SSA3021x, very nice features vs price. There is a setting that turns on and off screen text, shows menu item selected and value. Instead of just on and off, it would be nice to have a mode where the menu item shows up when an entry is started and then goes away again after a delay ( settable ?, the entry should be cleared and aborted after the delay ) or accepted when the entry is completed ( selecting units or hitting enter ). Example, I like to leave text off, but when I go to enter say a frequency, it would be nice if what I'm entering would pop up on the screen then go away after a delay ( canceled ) or when the entry is completed.

Joel
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Electro Detective on May 05, 2017, 02:17:04 am
@ Siglent America:
 I posted some of this blab on another post and thought I may get some answers here, seeing as I could not find Siglent Australia or Siglent UK on EEVblog     ;D


I recently updated the firmware on a Siglent SDS1000CFL 4 Channel series > Firmware Version: 5.01.02.38 | Released 2015-03-10
Software Version on updated unit: 5.03.02.38  Hardware Version: 15-f0-0.11

Result: the 'Siglent' brand boot time splash screen is now gone, replaced with a blank white screen, but it starts up ok,
and Channel 1 vertical gain issues I was concerned about (higher on default start up compared to lower but equal gain channels 2,3,4 ) are all gone,
and the scope appears to work as it should.

Besides an ocassional freeze in response to extreme control dial work (fixed by power off/on) the scope does the business as I expect, I think..  :-//

The firmware was direct from Siglent btw, and one must be VERY cautious to select the correct file on their support pages   

The firmware instructions I have attached to this comment don't tell you that much, the final step 'Part 2 Update Cfg' made no real sense to me nor responded, or perhaps not relevant to my scope model.

QUESTION to Siglent America: is it 'normal' after this update for the boot up screen to be WHITE and no Siglent logo or text etc ?

Thanks in advance, and your participation at EEVblog for Siglent customers to post their questions or concerns, is very much appreciated   :-+   :)

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on May 05, 2017, 02:44:16 am
Your first call for support should be to your local seller or regional distributor:
TRIO Test & Measurement Pty Ltd, AU authorised distributors.

For our part of the world, (Oceanica) NZ and AU the factory is the best match of timezone for fast replies.
The rest of the world is best served by either US in Ohio or Hamburg Siglent branches.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Electro Detective on May 05, 2017, 07:44:08 am
Your first call for support should be to your local seller or regional distributor:
TRIO Test & Measurement Pty Ltd, AU authorised distributors.

For our part of the world, (Oceanica) NZ and AU the factory is the best match of timezone for fast replies.
The rest of the world is best served by either US in Ohio or Hamburg Siglent branches.


Thanks, but it's not a support issue (yet) 
just wondering why the boot screen splash got nuked to white, and if anyone else has experienced this with the last firmware update.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Joel_l on May 05, 2017, 02:16:50 pm
This is the same version FW I have and I get the normal splash screen on mine. Did you try reflashing?


@ Siglent America:
 I posted some of this blab on another post and thought I may get some answers here, seeing as I could not find Siglent Australia or Siglent UK on EEVblog     ;D


I recently updated the firmware on a Siglent SDS1000CFL 4 Channel series > Firmware Version: 5.01.02.38 | Released 2015-03-10
Software Version on updated unit: 5.03.02.38  Hardware Version: 15-f0-0.11

Result: the 'Siglent' brand boot time splash screen is now gone, replaced with a blank white screen, but it starts up ok,
and Channel 1 vertical gain issues I was concerned about (higher on default start up compared to lower but equal gain channels 2,3,4 ) are all gone,
and the scope appears to work as it should.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on May 05, 2017, 06:14:01 pm
@Electro Detective
How did you update config? This last update package do not have config file at all. 

There is long way from 5.01xxxx   to 5.03xxxx.  Perhaps there is some previous update what have included also config update file. I do not know but I feel that perhaps this version jump is too big and it need first do some intermediate update before this last version. I do not remember what all versions have included needed new cnf file. Perhaps before this last update it first need some previous version update, example: SDS1000CFL_4CH  Version: 5.03.02.12 | Published?2014-09-26. There is also new config for 5.03xxxx versions.

But, I do not know if you can now downgrade and update this previous version first before last version or do it now need some "trick".
I recommend to contact Siglent China Engineer who know what and how to do now. Best that do not try enything before get real information based to real knowledge. (Siglent Engineer) For avoid more problems.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on May 05, 2017, 10:34:04 pm
Your first call for support should be to your local seller or regional distributor:
TRIO Test & Measurement Pty Ltd, AU authorised distributors.

For our part of the world, (Oceanica) NZ and AU the factory is the best match of timezone for fast replies.
The rest of the world is best served by either US in Ohio or Hamburg Siglent branches.


Thanks, but it's not a support issue (yet) 
just wondering why the boot screen splash got nuked to white, and if anyone else has experienced this with the last firmware update.
Expect contact from Trio, you issue has been reported to the factory and they will forward it to them.

BTW, Charles from Trio is a member here.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Electro Detective on May 05, 2017, 11:36:11 pm
Many thanks gents for the great feedback and helpful advice    :-+

it appears with all my experience and caution updating MANY firmwares on too many products over many years, this time it appears to be a part-FAIL   :--

The SDS1xxxCFL scope works but boots up like a prototype with white screen and no name

My brief tests have been limited to sig gen verification and to 10x cal the 4 probes to their respective channels

Yes I tried re-flashing, no difference
Yes, I tried it with 2 different USB sticks freshly formatted to Fat32
Yes, scope hooked up to a SmartUPS during procedure 
Yes, I tried -next welcome suggestion- too   :)

Either the wrong firmware was posted at whichever Siglent support site is the actual MAIN support site.   :-//  :-//
or it's similar firmware version to other models.

Unclear instructions, an obese 1mb BMP picture of text, and no proper text file   

NO CAUTION to update older firmware in steps, assuming that's the case here.
and whatever else described in my previous comments above


The user (paying customer who purchased Siglent instead of Rigol or Hantek) can't possibly be at any fault here and Siglent should sort this out for me DIRECTLY.

Why should I have to hassle the seller distributor when the manufacturer needs to get their support in better gear?

Updating a Siglent should not go south when it's the same SIMPLE routine as updating the firmware on a Pentax camera or a Dell or Acer PC,
companies that make their firmware files, and instructions to use them,  VERY CLEAR, including if it needs to be done in steps... 


I've had ONE (x1) bios update fail on a Dell PC and after one phone call explaining the update routine, Dell advised me it was a flaw with the motherboard revision and had a tech come over asap, who fitted a new motherboard AND updated the bios and did a diagnostic, while I watched  :popcorn: Good job too btw.

How can I not recommend Dell products to the average battler who wants advice on what 'all in one' PC package to buy  >  "I don't know what's around, just get a Dell.."

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on May 06, 2017, 12:08:42 am
Many thanks for the great feedback and advice gents,

it appears with all my experience and caution updating MANY firmwares on too many products over many years, this time it appears to be a part-FAIL   :--

The scope works but boots up like a prototype with no name

My tests have been limited to sig gen verification and to 10x cal the 4 probes to their respective channels

Either the wrong firmware was posted at whichever Siglent support site is the actual MAIN support site.   :-//  :-//
or it's similar firmware version to other models.

Unclear instructions, an obese 1mb BMP picture of text, and no proper text file   

NO CAUTION to update older firmware in steps, assuming that's the case here.
and whatever else described in my previous comments above


The user (paying customer who purchased Siglent instead of Rigol or Hantek) can't possibly be at any fault here and Siglent should sort this out for me DIRECTLY.

Why should I have to hassle the seller distributor when the manufacturer needs to get their support in better gear?

Updating a Siglent should not go south when it's the same SIMPLE routine as updating the firmware on a Pentax camera or a Dell or Acer PC,
companies that make their firmware files, and instructions to use them,  VERY CLEAR, including if it needs to be done in steps... 
Now that you have let off some steam, some things that I might ask and others that might help you.

Where did you buy it, do they offer zero support ?

rf-loop and I frequent this forum to offer help to those that need it and we both have close contact with the factory to do so.
Bitch if you must but please understand not all Siglent branches of which there are only 3 are in your timezone and can always offer timely support. But we 2 can and the community of others that own and use Siglent products.


This might be a problem with the FW but as you see another user has no problems.
Right now you need to wait until next week for Trio to contact you, they ARE Siglent's rep for AU and the guys on the ground that will sort it for you. Special software may be the fix for your unit, this I am unsure of.

Yes, the instructions can be better and to help buyers not have problems updating FW both rf-loop and I only despatch units with latest FW installed.

Be patient, a solution will be offered.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Electro Detective on May 06, 2017, 12:59:21 am
Thank you sir, it wasn't a steam, well maybe it meandered toward the sauna room..   

A little disappointed at finally pulling the trigger on a first basic DSO, against my better judgement since I have analogue storage cros that still do the business for transient captures and the like etc, but 4 channels and one button single shot in a small box can come in handy sometimes

I wanted to avoid getting caught up in the DSO 'Daze Of Our Lives' dramas happening to others I read about here and Youtube,
and LOL here I am    :palm:

Yes, it was purchased locally from the authorized distributor interstate, but why hassle them for a manufacturer related issue that can be possibly resolved via the internet, with some simple button commands and a restore and update file routine or whatever ?

TBH: I still believe the Siglent is as good as the competition and chose wisely for my humble requirements,
so if I have to be patient for a positive outcome, it's not a problem.     :)
 
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: colorado.rob on May 06, 2017, 03:19:13 am
Feature Suggestions for the SDG-2000X:

1. allow a modulating wave shape (MDSP) for FSK so that a square wave signal can be uploaded to modulate an arbitrary bit sequence (example: "C1:MDWV FSK,MDSP, ARB")
2. allow the modulator to use the other channel as the signal source (example: "C2:MDWV PWM,MDSP, C1")

Right now the FSK modulation feature is rather limited.  One can only modulate a simple square wave or it requires using an external source.  It seems like an oversight not to allow an uploaded wave form to modulate the FSK signal.

Rob
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on May 06, 2017, 03:28:38 am
Feature Suggestions for the SDG-2000X:

1. allow a modulating wave shape (MDSP) for FSK so that a square wave signal can be uploaded to modulate an arbitrary bit sequence (example: "C1:MDWV FSK,MDSP, ARB")
2. allow the modulator to use the other channel as the signal source (example: "C2:MDWV PWM,MDSP, C1")

Right now the FSK modulation feature is rather limited.  One can only modulate a simple square wave or it requires using an external source.  It seems like an oversight not to allow an uploaded wave form to modulate the FSK signal.

Rob
You will at time see member Siglent viewing this thread and at other times a # of guests; their staff.
They WILL see anything posted here.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: anubis801 on May 06, 2017, 09:03:35 pm
Hi everyone,

I had my old channel deleted.
Here is the video in my new youtube channel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIpSlJEBMEo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIpSlJEBMEo)

Enjoy!
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on May 06, 2017, 09:27:06 pm
Hi everyone,

I had my old channel deleted.
Here is the video in my new youtube channel.
Enjoy!
Thanks, can you please also place a link to it here as it's most relevant to the SDG1000 and 800 models:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-sdg1000-and-sdg800-thread/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-sdg1000-and-sdg800-thread/)

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: StillTrying on May 06, 2017, 10:49:05 pm

Electro Detective is not the only one that thinks Siglent's DSO firmware updating is a mess.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-cml-firmware/msg1197684/#msg1197684 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-cml-firmware/msg1197684/#msg1197684)

Confusion with the filenames, is there info in the filename?
Confusion with cfg files, where are they?
Confusion over whether or not you can jump over a version.
The Change Log. LOL
Are they trying to support different (possibly undocumented) hardware versions, different bootloader versions?
Does the firmware do any basic checks to check the hardware is compatible?

At least you don't have to worry about the power going off during the 2 minutes of upgrading - that's the least of your worries.  :)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Electro Detective on May 06, 2017, 10:59:33 pm

Electro Detective is not the only one that thinks Siglent's DSO firmware updating is a mess.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-cml-firmware/msg1197684/#msg1197684 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-cml-firmware/msg1197684/#msg1197684)

Confusion with the filenames, is there info in the filename?
Confusion with cfg files, where are they?
Confusion over whether or not you can jump over a version.
The Change Log. LOL
Are they trying to support different (possibly undocumented) hardware versions, different bootloader versions?
Does the firmware do any basic checks to check the hardware is compatible?

At least you don't have to worry about the power going off during the 2 minutes of upgrading - that's the least of your worries.  :)


Thanks mate   :-+   relieved to see I'm not flying solo on this    :phew:
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: MrW0lf on May 08, 2017, 04:58:30 pm
Link to bricked SDG2042X issue:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg1203573/#msg1203573 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg1203573/#msg1203573)
Culprit is either 23R3 firmware, loading custom arb wfm at boot or combination of both...
Maybe A-team can help...  :'(
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Electro Fan on May 08, 2017, 06:49:17 pm
@Electro Detective
How did you update config? This last update package do not have config file at all. 

There is long way from 5.01xxxx   to 5.03xxxx.  Perhaps there is some previous update what have included also config update file. I do not know but I feel that perhaps this version jump is too big and it need first do some intermediate update before this last version. I do not remember what all versions have included needed new cnf file. Perhaps before this last update it first need some previous version update, example: SDS1000CFL_4CH  Version: 5.03.02.12 | Published?2014-09-26. There is also new config for 5.03xxxx versions.

But, I do not know if you can now downgrade and update this previous version first before last version or do it now need some "trick".
I recommend to contact Siglent China Engineer who know what and how to do now. Best that do not try enything before get real information based to real knowledge. (Siglent Engineer) For avoid more problems.

Maybe the Siglent firmware notes should say whether you can jump over versions or need specific intermediate versions.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on May 08, 2017, 06:54:51 pm
@Electro Detective
How did you update config? This last update package do not have config file at all. 

There is long way from 5.01xxxx   to 5.03xxxx.  Perhaps there is some previous update what have included also config update file. I do not know but I feel that perhaps this version jump is too big and it need first do some intermediate update before this last version. I do not remember what all versions have included needed new cnf file. Perhaps before this last update it first need some previous version update, example: SDS1000CFL_4CH  Version: 5.03.02.12 | Published?2014-09-26. There is also new config for 5.03xxxx versions.

But, I do not know if you can now downgrade and update this previous version first before last version or do it now need some "trick".
I recommend to contact Siglent China Engineer who know what and how to do now. Best that do not try enything before get real information based to real knowledge. (Siglent Engineer) For avoid more problems.

Maybe the Siglent firmware notes should say whether you can jump over versions or need specific intermediate versions.

Actually, this is something that we have started doing but we will remind those involved of the importance of it. Some product families have probably been better than others.
Thanks for the reminder.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Electro Fan on May 08, 2017, 07:15:59 pm
@Electro Detective
How did you update config? This last update package do not have config file at all. 

There is long way from 5.01xxxx   to 5.03xxxx.  Perhaps there is some previous update what have included also config update file. I do not know but I feel that perhaps this version jump is too big and it need first do some intermediate update before this last version. I do not remember what all versions have included needed new cnf file. Perhaps before this last update it first need some previous version update, example: SDS1000CFL_4CH  Version: 5.03.02.12 | Published?2014-09-26. There is also new config for 5.03xxxx versions.

But, I do not know if you can now downgrade and update this previous version first before last version or do it now need some "trick".
I recommend to contact Siglent China Engineer who know what and how to do now. Best that do not try enything before get real information based to real knowledge. (Siglent Engineer) For avoid more problems.

Maybe the Siglent firmware notes should say whether you can jump over versions or need specific intermediate versions.

Actually, this is something that we have started doing but we will remind those involved of the importance of it. Some product families have probably been better than others.
Thanks for the reminder.

Thanks for the very fast reply.

FWIW, the page at the following link would probably be a good place to post the guidance on which firmware versions can be updated from which other firmware versions: 

http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-gjjrj.aspx?id=1364&tid=16&T=2 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-gjjrj.aspx?id=1364&tid=16&T=2)

But when you click on HistoryVersion the page comes up saying:  Information not found!

If you download the latest firmware you get some release notes saying what was in each release but no guidance regarding what versions can be updated from what previous versions.

Both the download page (at the link above) and the download itself should advise a user if there is a need for interim version updates.

Also, since .cfg files are sometimes required and sometimes not, the notion of whether a .cfg file is required or not should be explicit, ie, the notes should either say "a .cfg file is REQUIRED with this update" or say "a .cfg file is NOT REQUIRED with this update" (rather than "If a CFG file is not included with a firmware update then it will not be required for that update").

And for completeness, perhaps a note should be included saying whether downgrades to earlier versions are allowed, and under what conditions (from what versions to what versions).

PS, while it would be great to fix up the documentation asap, it's probably a higher priority to help MrW0lf at the link below get his SDG2042X restarted (I wouldn't want this post to get ahead of his request for help).  EF
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg1203657/#msg1203657 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg1203657/#msg1203657)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on May 08, 2017, 08:08:38 pm
Thanks.
Actually, our upgrade path's are normally located in the FW upgrade file itself. There is a PDF with instructions. The entire filed is compressed into a .RAR file.

We are working on some website upgrades and we planning for improvements.
Stay tuned!
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Electro Detective on May 08, 2017, 11:18:42 pm
Thanks.
Actually, our upgrade path's are normally located in the FW upgrade file itself. There is a PDF with instructions. The entire filed is compressed into a .RAR file.

We are working on some website upgrades and we planning for improvements.
Stay tuned!


Stay tuned!?  to what frequency?   :-//

instead of making Siglent fans drool over new models and "website upgrades and we planning for improvements"  I suggest it's GOOD/BETTER/BEST BUSINESS practice you make it a top priority to sort out this FIRMWARE FIASCO immediately for your customers who digged DEEP in their pockets and went for Siglent products rather than the competing Rigol and Hanteks etc,

and to relieve the pressure off your concerned loyal hard working distributors and dealers, doing unpaid hard time on EEVblog currently acting as excuse buffers, for Siglent's firmware packages scattered at random on Siglent support pages, with questionable performance and poor documentation. 

Packages enclosed in RAR files which should also be offered as bog standard zip files as well. 

PLEASE CONSIDER !!!  :-+





Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: StillTrying on May 08, 2017, 11:42:56 pm
Electro Detective, I think rars are OK.

While we're giving Siglent a hard time, what does "our upgrade path's are normally located in the FW upgrade file itself."  actually mean.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Electro Detective on May 09, 2017, 12:22:46 am
Electro Detective, I think rars are OK.

While we're giving Siglent a hard time, what does "our upgrade path's are normally located in the FW upgrade file itself."  actually mean.

What it implies and should mean, is if they did their update file homework properly, the current 'FW upgrade' should bring the unit's firmware version to the latest revision, regardless of the version currently on the unit.

and if this is not the case (and who really knows ATM) and it needs to be done in consecutive firmware update steps, then it is the manufacturer's RESPONSIBILITY to inform the end user of the correct sequence, to avoid either bricking the unit or introducing erratic performance, which in turn breaks balls for everyone, including the dealer distributor who has to play unpaid gas negotiator.

This is kiddie stuff, it shouldn't be happening at this level of product manufacture and release in 2017    :palm:

 
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Electro Fan on May 09, 2017, 02:11:28 am
FWIW, the most recent SDG2000X firmware upgrade comes in a .rar file.  When you unpack that file it gives you a file that is the actual .ads update file (with no .cfg file for this particular update), and it gives you a "Firmware Revise History & Update Instructions" .pdf file.  In the .pdf file is a chronological listing of the updates with file name and date, and for each file is a list of the features or bugs addressed including descriptions of the features or bug fixes.  However, there is no mention of what updates can be applied with or without previous updates.  To be clear, listing the firmware updates in order of release is not the same as specifying which updates can be applied regardless of previous firmware status and which updates require one or more interim updates.  This might not seem like a big distinction, but for a user bricking an update the experience becomes a frustrating loss of time in trying to correct the problem along with a loss of the productive use of the product, and for Siglent and it's distributors it only adds work and cost while potentially jeopardizing future sales.

Siglent, I think what users are saying is that while it is impressive that rf-loop and tautech and others are offering their best possible assistance to Siglent users and potential Siglent users around the world, it would be helpful if the firmware updates had better documentation. 

As Electro Detective (no relationship to Electro Fan, whatsoever) has said:  it is the manufacturer's RESPONSIBILITY to inform the end user of the correct sequence, to avoid either bricking the unit or introducing erratic performance.

FWIW, I've just made the decision to purchase a SDG2042X so I don't have any experience yet with the product, but in looking ahead to possibly having to update the firmware in a unit that has possibly been sitting in a distributor's inventory for awhile, I think there is room for improvement in how firmware updates are documented.  The good news as I see it is that 1) the SDG2K is capable of offering very good features and performance and 2) it looks like Siglent has been providing firmware updates about every 3-6 months.  So why not capitalize on all the good work that has gone into designing, manufacturing, distributing, and supporting this product (and other Siglent products) by improving the documentation (for both the product manuals and the updates)?

Hoping to become a Siglent fan, EF
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on May 09, 2017, 02:54:06 am
FWIW, the most recent SDG2000X firmware upgrade comes in a .rar file.  When you unpack that file it gives you a file that is the actual .ads update file (with no .cfg file for this particular update), and it gives you a "Firmware Revise History & Update Instructions" .pdf file.  In the .pdf file is a chronological listing of the updates with file name and date, and for each file is a list of the features or bugs addressed including descriptions of the features or bug fixes.  However, there is no mention of what updates can be applied with or without previous updates.  To be clear, listing the firmware updates in order of release is not the same as specifying which updates can be applied regardless of previous firmware status and which updates require one or more interim updates.  This might not seem like a big distinction, but for a user bricking an update the experience becomes a frustrating loss of time in trying to correct the problem along with a loss of the productive use of the product, and for Siglent and it's distributors it only adds work and cost while potentially jeopardizing future sales.
Cfg files are only offered when considerable change to the OS/UI are needed in units and when this happens (rarely) the FW install instructions are quite clear as to the procedure that MUST be followed for all the intended changes to take place.
TBH I've never had an update fail and I've done hundreds to many many models.

Quote
Siglent, I think what users are saying is that while it is impressive that rf-loop and tautech and others are offering their best possible assistance to Siglent users and potential Siglent users around the world, it would be helpful if the firmware updates had better documentation. 
Thank you.
Please understand it was only a couple of years back we did not have FW changelogs and after much nagging by us and customers most changes are now documented.
This can still be improved some, Siglent are still learning their trade in this respect and comments in the changelog like: Fixed some bugs are not entirely helpful.


Quote
As Electro Detective (no relationship to Electro Fan, whatsoever) has said:  it is the manufacturer's RESPONSIBILITY to inform the end user of the correct sequence, to avoid either bricking the unit or introducing erratic performance.
Yes.

Why these things happen I am at a loss to understand, the only suggestion I can offer is to return all units to factory default before installing updates.
This is not documented but as I have zero problems with new equipment FW upgrades before they are dispatched I wonder if this may be the issue.
Before you say Siglent needed to have checked the FW before release, think about this; how many user setups and control conditions would need to be individually checked before guaranteeing no problems will exist after updating the FW ?
I intend to explore this with tech support and maybe have some instruction in future FW to say: return to factory default before updating.

Quote
FWIW, I've just made the decision to purchase a SDG2042X so I don't have any experience yet with the product, but in looking ahead to possibly having to update the firmware in a unit that has possibly been sitting in a distributor's inventory for awhile, I think there is room for improvement in how firmware updates are documented.  The good news as I see it is that 1) the SDG2K is capable of offering very good features and performance and 2) it looks like Siglent has been providing firmware updates about every 3-6 months.  So why not capitalize on all the good work that has gone into designing, manufacturing, distributing, and supporting this product (and other Siglent products) by improving the documentation (for both the product manuals and the updates)?
There is certainly the possibility a new unit may come with older FW especially if it's been in stock for a while.
OTOH, all units that I've received for probably the last 6 months have had the latest FW already installed and this saves me a lot of time but I still check every unit.

The owners of these units also deserve great thanks for the contribution of ideas and improvements that have been subsequently incorporated over some time. Not all these have been documented in previous user manuals and for those that haven't spotted it there's a new User manual for SDG2kX released just a few days ago.
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/UserManual/SDG2000X_UserManual_UM0202X-E02B.pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/UserManual/SDG2000X_UserManual_UM0202X-E02B.pdf)

Quote
Hoping to become a Siglent fan, EF
:-+
We and Siglent hope to keep you as one.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: kcbrown on May 09, 2017, 03:15:33 am
Why these things happen I am at a loss to understand, the only suggestion I can offer is to return all units to factory default before installing updates.
This is not documented but as I have zero problems with new equipment FW upgrades before they are dispatched I wonder if this may be the issue.
Before you say Siglent needed to have checked the FW before release, think about this; how many user setups and control conditions would need to be individually checked before guaranteeing no problems will exist after updating the FW ?
I intend to explore this with tech support and maybe have some instruction in future FW to say: return to factory default before updating.

If the device's configuration can cause the update process to fail, then the firmware update mechanism should must restore the factory defaults at the very beginning of the upgrade process, and the firmware update instructions should make it clear that this is what will happen.  Obviously, then, the unit should provide a way to save and restore the unit's configuration, and it should do it in such a way as to make it difficult for the firmware to improperly set things up after the upgrade (the easiest way to ensure this is to use a text file to represent the configuration, which will force the firmware to parse the configuration file so that, at least, you don't wind up with otherwise-impossible settings resulting from some binary file mixup like you easily could if the settings file were just a memory dump or something).

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on May 09, 2017, 03:29:21 am
Why these things happen I am at a loss to understand, the only suggestion I can offer is to return all units to factory default before installing updates.
This is not documented but as I have zero problems with new equipment FW upgrades before they are dispatched I wonder if this may be the issue.
Before you say Siglent needed to have checked the FW before release, think about this; how many user setups and control conditions would need to be individually checked before guaranteeing no problems will exist after updating the FW ?
I intend to explore this with tech support and maybe have some instruction in future FW to say: return to factory default before updating.

If the device's configuration can cause the update process to fail, then the firmware update mechanism should must restore the factory defaults at the very beginning of the upgrade process, and the firmware update instructions should make it clear that this is what will happen.  Obviously, then, the unit should provide a way to save and restore the unit's configuration, and it should do it in such a way as to make it difficult for the firmware to improperly set things up after the upgrade (the easiest way to ensure this is to use a text file to represent the configuration, which will force the firmware to parse the configuration file so that, at least, you don't wind up with otherwise-impossible settings resulting from some binary file mixup like you easily could if the settings file were just a memory dump or something).
Currently all user settings are lost when FW is updated and when it's complete the factory defaults are activated.

Yep, we need explore this more.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Electro Detective on May 09, 2017, 03:31:04 am
Excellent points and clarification from the gents comments above  :-+

Speaking strictly for myself: I'm more than willing to blow out ALL existing user setups and control conditions and whatever, reboot the unit a couple of times,
to give it a fighting chance to revert to Day 1 firmware, and then apply the update, or updates in sequence, whatever the case may be.

This has always worked for me with digital devices, including computers, phones, cameras etc etc 

I do not expect the manufacturer and their software staff stressing with extra 'what if we do this?' code, to try to save user preferences on a vital software/firmware update, when it's far more important to have the DSO in an updated refined usable state,  scrubbing EVERYTHING in the process.  :clap:

Tough titties on lost user presets and setups   :'(   :'(  , just do them again,
you would have to anyway on a new unit or if the current DSO got fried or stolen,
or work colleague or boss screwed with your settings (people that deserve a long 'time out' on a well used kitty litter)

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on May 09, 2017, 03:54:59 am
ED, have you had contact from Trio ?
If not, to hurry the process for a solution try PM'ing them:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/profile/?u=110901 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/profile/?u=110901)

Give them as much detail as you can and point them to the appropriate post/s to help them fully understand your issues.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Electro Detective on May 09, 2017, 11:32:48 am
Thanks but I'm in no hurry, as I know the coming ordeal is going to be a long haul,  |O
explaining, documenting, sending off the unit, getting it back worse than when it left or unchanged,
neanderthal couriers trashing it and the blame game that follows,
the endless emails back and forth, waiting for responses from Siglent, etc etc etc
NO THANKS !!!

It probably needs a firmware nuke back to Day 1, and the correct file/s and instructions to do it properly.

I am convinced the files posted at Siglent were not specific as to WHICH CFL series the firmwares belonged to.

The support site is confusing and could use a coding nuke too and proper update. Hire someone that knows what they are doing, not clueless relatives, friends or whoever works cheap.

It's my first and last DSO, I've put back an honest analogue storage cro back in it's place on the bench. I need to get work done.   

Buggy or half@$$ed firmware DSOs are officially an expensive bookend at best for me.
If I don't need to see 4 audio sine waves at once or capture a 10hz distorted pulse, it can stay in the box
or hit Ebay with full 'selling because...' disclosure for the bidders.

The DSO novelty is GONE for me, I can live without pretty trace colours, wide screen, USB, and praying there's enough dots to complete a signal trace.

------------------

Besides I need a 'support' break after the last 2 encounters with *luke 'engineers', their email staff and their distributors,
on two separate SIMPLE issues regarding their meters

Football scores at the end of that game:    :popcorn:

BS: 1 

Resolution: 0

 :horse:
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on May 09, 2017, 01:25:10 pm
Here is an example from the SDS1000X/X+ latest FW update. This is from the history & update instructions file located inside the RAR:


Update instructions
- Very important! You must perform the update twice in order to update the oscilloscope from 1.1.1.2.6 (or lower) to 1.1.1.2.13R3 (or higher).The first time will update from 1.1.1.2.6 to 1.1.1.2.13R3, while the second time will update from 1.1.1.2.13R3 to 1.1.1.2.13R3.
 
- Very important! Because 1.1.1.2.15 optimizes self- calibration for the each channel, the oscilloscope will need to perform a self-calibration once if the machine is updated from 1.1.1.2.13R5 (or lower) to 1.1.1.2.15 (or higher)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Electro Fan on May 09, 2017, 05:15:33 pm
Siglent, the detailed firmware information provided on this oscilloscope model looks really good; this level of detail is very useful and helpful. 

As noted it appears that some product lines have more detailed documentation than others within the overall product family.  Maybe someone from Siglent could help MrW0lf (and possibly other users or potential users) with some more detailed guidance on the firmware user name and password process he is working through with the most recent firmware update (as being discussed over in the Siglent SDG2042X Thread)?  Thx

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg1204362/#msg1204362 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg1204362/#msg1204362)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on May 09, 2017, 08:51:33 pm
Siglent, the detailed firmware information provided on this oscilloscope model looks really good; this level of detail is very useful and helpful. 

As noted it appears that some product lines have more detailed documentation than others within the overall product family.  Maybe someone from Siglent could help MrW0lf (and possibly other users or potential users) with some more detailed guidance on the firmware user name and password process he is working through with the most recent firmware update (as being discussed over in the Siglent SDG2042X Thread)?  Thx

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg1204362/#msg1204362 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg1204362/#msg1204362)

Thank you, Electro Fan.

We did reach out to one of the people in this thread via PM who was having a problem.
Anyone can also write to us here at our USA office at
info@Siglent.com

We are still working on ways to improve procedures and decimating information. We have made improvements but we are still working on it.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Electro Detective on May 21, 2017, 11:59:33 pm
Siglent, the detailed firmware information provided on this oscilloscope model looks really good; this level of detail is very useful and helpful. 

As noted it appears that some product lines have more detailed documentation than others within the overall product family.  Maybe someone from Siglent could help MrW0lf (and possibly other users or potential users) with some more detailed guidance on the firmware user name and password process he is working through with the most recent firmware update (as being discussed over in the Siglent SDG2042X Thread)?  Thx

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg1204362/#msg1204362 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg1204362/#msg1204362)

Thank you, Electro Fan.

We did reach out to one of the people in this thread via PM who was having a problem.
Anyone can also write to us here at our USA office at
info@Siglent.com

We are still working on ways to improve procedures and decimating information. We have made improvements but we are still working on it.


I'm the 'that guy' who was having the problem,

and would like to thank Siglent America and crew, and the local dealer stepping in, for sorting the issue out asap  :-+ :-+

The communication was as good as it gets, and a few days later was emailed an attachment with the 'missing' .CFG file (not included in the latest firmware update package applied weeks ago) with clear instructions and illustration in a PDF file of how to apply it.  :clap:

The DSO is now up to scratch, and doing the 4 channel dedicated controls plus independent trigger business I need it for  (and glad again I didn't get the Rigol equivalent)   ;D


If Siglent have learned something from this, and blow some days backtracking and sorting through ALL their support pages to verify the download packages offered to customers are complete, and make sense to the average layman/woman/lay-tech,

the only fallout I can envisage from this grand, unpaid, labor of love effort is:

1. Less or no more unnecessary support problems, or time wasted for EVERYONE

2. More confidence in buying Siglent

3. More Siglent orders and test gear SOLD

4. Combination of the above

5. Did I miss anything?   :-//
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: colorado.rob on June 01, 2017, 03:28:20 am
Does the SDS2000X series (I'm interested in the SDS2204X) support LXI on the LAN port?  If so, is the SCPI command set documented somewhere?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on June 01, 2017, 04:24:44 am
Does the SDS2000X series (I'm interested in the SDS2204X) support LXI on the LAN port?  If so, is the SCPI command set documented somewhere?
Yes.
The Programming guide is in the Documents page within the Product page on the Siglent websites:
http://siglentamerica.com/prodcut-wd.aspx?id=1488&tid=1&T=2 (http://siglentamerica.com/prodcut-wd.aspx?id=1488&tid=1&T=2)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nctnico on June 01, 2017, 06:07:23 am
Hello,
will there be the open socket LAN connection also for the SDS2000X series?

regards René

No, there won't be open socket on the SDS2000X but there will be on the new SDS1202X-E.
:-//
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: boggis the cat on June 01, 2017, 01:03:07 pm
What advantage does LXI give you over VXI-11?

I haven't used any of the LAN based communications options with test instrumentation.  Both protocols seem to offer SCPI / IEEE 488.2 support.  LXI appears targeted more toward very large systems, such as automating production processes.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on June 01, 2017, 01:17:56 pm
The Siglent SDS2000X oscilloscopes are VXI-11 compliant but technically not LXI compliant.

If you want to program a SDS2000X oscilloscope using remote control over LAN you will need to use the NI-Visa layer and I would certainly want to have a copy of the Programming Guide handy. There are some example programs in the guide.

Please contact us at info@siglent.com if you have any questions.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: boggis the cat on June 01, 2017, 01:25:53 pm
So the difference is ease of use, essentially?

Installing the bloated NI Visa software and getting it working is something that isn't a lot of fun.  If LXI let's you avoid that then I can see the advantage.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nctnico on June 01, 2017, 02:31:26 pm
So the difference is ease of use, essentially?
With LXI you can open a TCP/IP socket (telnet) and start sending commands. With VXI you'll need the bloated VISA to do the translation from VXI to text commands. LXI is way easier to incorporate in your own programs than VXI.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: kvd on June 01, 2017, 03:41:00 pm
Hi, first time post on the EEVBlog forum.

I discovered a bug on the SDS1202X-E when using cursors in combination with a 10X probe. I don’t know if it has been reported before. Reading through 27 pages of posts is a bit too much.

Using a 10x probe and having correctly set the probe adjustment under the channel/probe menu doing a measurement with the Y-cursor gives a wrong readout. It divides by 10 one time too much. The same measurement done with the measurement button, and then for example ‘maximum’, ‘amplitude’ or ‘peak-to-peak’ gives the correct readout, properly corrected for the 10x probe. See attached picture for the bug.

Software Version: 5.1.3.8
FPGA version: 2017-03-21
Hardware Version: 00-01
Product Type: SDS1202X-E
Serial No:
Scope ID:

I discovered another bug, which I will post soon. It requires a bit more writing and images.

It is a great scope otherwise!

Koen
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: kvd on June 01, 2017, 03:52:25 pm
This is a description of the other bug which I found. It is about X-cursor readouts in the FFT spectrum, in combination with the zoom feature. On the attached two pictures the bug is clearly visible.

In the first picture (E3) you see a minimal zoom, and the ?X readout is 20.26 kHz, which compares fine with the 12.2 Hz/div for the FFT spectrum. In the second picture (E6) you can see that when using the zoom feature (zooming out) the same cursors give a ?X readout of 50.54 kHz, which cannot be right watching the 12.2 Hz/div of the FFT spectrum.

Hope this can be fixed in the next firmware version.

Koen
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: colorado.rob on June 01, 2017, 04:05:37 pm
So the difference is ease of use, essentially?
With LXI you can open a TCP/IP socket (telnet) and start sending commands. With VXI you'll need the bloated VISA to do the translation from VXI to text commands. LXI is way easier to incorporate in your own programs than VXI.

VXI is fine for me.  I use PyVISA (https://pyvisa.readthedocs.io/en/stable/) and PyVISA-py (https://github.com/pyvisa/pyvisa-py) for this.  Works like a charm with the Siglent SDG2042X.  A couple lines of Python code and you're off and running.  Not as nice as LXI, but usable.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on June 01, 2017, 04:13:38 pm
So the difference is ease of use, essentially?
With LXI you can open a TCP/IP socket (telnet) and start sending commands. With VXI you'll need the bloated VISA to do the translation from VXI to text commands. LXI is way easier to incorporate in your own programs than VXI.

Yes, nctnico is correct about this.

Other Siglent instruments will have the open sockets - the SSA3000X spectrum analyzers do now -  but the SDS2000X scopes will not.
FWIW, the majority of customers we work with are okay with the Visa layer but we do understand that it is a large program and can slow things down some.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nctnico on June 01, 2017, 04:19:12 pm
So the difference is ease of use, essentially?
With LXI you can open a TCP/IP socket (telnet) and start sending commands. With VXI you'll need the bloated VISA to do the translation from VXI to text commands. LXI is way easier to incorporate in your own programs than VXI.
Yes, ntnico is correct about this.

Other Siglent instruments will have the open sockets - the SSA3000X spectrum analyzers do now -  but the SDS2000X scopes will not.
FWIW, the majority of customers we work with are okay with the Visa layer but we do understand that it is a large program and can slow things down some.
Just a short addition: Needing to install NI VISA makes it harder to distribute software to customers especially for small companies who can't spend a lot of time on support. Communicating with equipment over RS232 or LXI allows a piece of software to be installed as a single executable without needing third party libraries and reduces the number of ways an installation can be messed up, reduces OS dependancy and in general reduces the number of failure points. From a programmers perspective NI VISA may look easier but from a support perspective it is not especially if the customer doesn't have IT staff on-site.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: colorado.rob on June 01, 2017, 05:43:29 pm
Other Siglent instruments will have the open sockets - the SSA3000X spectrum analyzers do now -  but the SDS2000X scopes will not.
FWIW, the majority of customers we work with are okay with the Visa layer but we do understand that it is a large program and can slow things down some.

 :-+ :-+

I'd like to encourage you to continue to expand support for LXI.

It's not just a matter of slowing things down.  It's a matter of being able to easily integrate with modern tools such as scipy.

It is certainly a factor which impacts my purchasing decisions.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on June 01, 2017, 07:44:15 pm
Other Siglent instruments will have the open sockets - the SSA3000X spectrum analyzers do now -  but the SDS2000X scopes will not.
FWIW, the majority of customers we work with are okay with the Visa layer but we do understand that it is a large program and can slow things down some.

o

 :-+ :-+

I'd like to encourage you to continue to expand support for LXI.

It's not just a matter of slowing things down.  It's a matter of being able to easily integrate with modern tools such as scipy.

It is certainly a factor which impacts my purchasing decisions.

Thanks for your inputs, colorado.rob. We appreciate it and I can say that it is on the radar.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: boggis the cat on June 02, 2017, 06:47:25 am
With LXI you can open a TCP/IP socket (telnet) and start sending commands. With VXI you'll need the bloated VISA to do the translation from VXI to text commands. LXI is way easier to incorporate in your own programs than VXI.
...
Quote
Just a short addition: Needing to install NI VISA makes it harder to distribute software to customers especially for small companies who can't spend a lot of time on support. Communicating with equipment over RS232 or LXI allows a piece of software to be installed as a single executable without needing third party libraries and reduces the number of ways an installation can be messed up, reduces OS dependancy and in general reduces the number of failure points. From a programmers perspective NI VISA may look easier but from a support perspective it is not especially if the customer doesn't have IT staff on-site.
Yes, NI Visa is a PITA to install and get working.  Then it seems to be choosy about whether it will keep working...  LXI is obviously a cleaner solution.

Once you bite that bullet, though, does LXI deliver anything significant that is missing from the VXI-11 / NI Visa route?  I noticed that there are some additional functions supported in later implementations of LXI such as the timing synchronisation -- that particular function could free up triggering between instruments, I guess?  (Dependent upon what you're doing, obviously.  I am thinking of aligning manually captured data here, rather than triggering at a set time.)

I am only familiar with the old serial and GPIB instrument control implementations, so the VXI / LXI (and there is PXI, and other stuff) options are new to me.  Is there a good guide that you know of?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on June 02, 2017, 12:33:25 pm
Hi boggis the cat.

Personally (and from my experience here and prior test equipment companies), installing and using NI Visa on our test equipment has always been straight forward and starts up the first time with no problems. Of course, I can't speak for everyone but that has been my (our) experience.

I found a couple of NI Visa guides you might check out:
http://www.ni.com/pdf/manuals/370423a.pdf (http://www.ni.com/pdf/manuals/370423a.pdf)
http://www.ni.com/pdf/manuals/370132c.pdf (http://www.ni.com/pdf/manuals/370132c.pdf)

 
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nctnico on June 02, 2017, 01:00:23 pm
Try to use a Windows 2000 or Windows XP PC! Lots of these around in labs and people are hell bound on keeping them because they often run software which won't run on newer Windows versions.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: klaff on June 02, 2017, 03:04:14 pm
I want to report a possible bug on the SDS1202X-E oscilloscope. Serial decoding doesn't appear to work correctly for History waveforms.  More specifically, if I capture a number of CAN waveforms, the CAN decode display will read the value of the last waveform, not the selected waveform.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: kvd on June 02, 2017, 03:11:10 pm
Hi,

I found yet another bug on the SDS1202X-E.

1. Feed a sine wave into channel B, Vmin = 600mV, Vmax = 27V
2. Press Auto Setup
3. Turn the vertical adjustment knob twice to the right, so the scale is at 1 Volt per division (note that the purple zero indicator is below the bottom of the wave)
4. And now, turn the vertical position up. Now it is perfectly possible to move the zero indicator to far above bottom of the wave! This is clearly a bug.

Note that if the vertical scale is changed to 2 Volts per division instead of 1 Volt per division, the vertical adjustment works as expected.

Also note that a sine wave on channel A, Vmin = 800mV, Vmax = 10.2V does not show this bug.

Also note that after step 2 on each subsequent turn of the vertical scale knob Vmin gets another value.

Koen

Software Version 5.1.3.8
FPGA version: 2017-03-21
Hardware version: 00-01
Product Type: SDS1202X-E
Serial No:
Scope ID:

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: kvd on June 02, 2017, 07:52:23 pm
After having delved deeper into the last mentioned bug on the SDS1202X-E I have narrowed down the cause of the bug.

Taking a signal with a DC component and using DC coupling on the probe, and switching to different vertical scales the bottom of the wave seems to have rather arbitrary values.

Note: I have done self calibration twice on this scope.

With AC coupling on the probe I have not yet found these issues.
It happens on both channels, so it is not an issue of channel 2 only

Am I overseeing something? I am not an experienced oscilloscope user, but this behaviour of the scope baffles me.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nctnico on June 02, 2017, 08:12:18 pm
At first glance this looks like you are overdriving the input.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on June 02, 2017, 09:43:18 pm
Am I overseeing something?
Not really.
There is a bug with measurements as you have identified and it is being addressed at the factory.

Quote
I am not an experienced oscilloscope user, but this behaviour of the scope baffles me.
Measurements are predominantly made from display information so to not have all the waveform on the display will result in corrupted values returned. There is a tradeoff between amplitude and frequency measurement accuracy depending on how you use the scope.  Same for most DSO's.

This thread investigates some of what you see:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/testing-dso-auto-measurements-accuracy-across-timebases/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/testing-dso-auto-measurements-accuracy-across-timebases/)

In this post member rf-loop gives examples for the SDS1202X-E:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/testing-dso-auto-measurements-accuracy-across-timebases/msg1204964/#msg1204964 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/testing-dso-auto-measurements-accuracy-across-timebases/msg1204964/#msg1204964)

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: boggis the cat on June 03, 2017, 09:03:20 am
Measurements are predominantly made from display information so to not have all the waveform on the display will result in corrupted values returned. There is a tradeoff between amplitude and frequency measurement accuracy depending on how you use the scope.  Same for most DSO's.
Most instruments will detect out-of-range signal conditions and not display erroneous calculated results.  Is there a reason for not taking this approach?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ebastler on June 03, 2017, 06:22:47 pm
Measurements are predominantly made from display information so to not have all the waveform on the display will result in corrupted values returned. There is a tradeoff between amplitude and frequency measurement accuracy depending on how you use the scope.  Same for most DSO's.
Most instruments will detect out-of-range signal conditions and not display erroneous calculated results.  Is there a reason for not taking this approach?

Let's not go there, shall we?
[deep voice and echo on] Summoning MrWolf!!! [/deep voice and echo]  ;)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: kvd on June 03, 2017, 07:18:14 pm
Regarding the Siglent SDS1202X-E:

I noticed the following bug/inconvenience: in the trigger settings, type 'Slope' the time setting for the "Limit Range <=" is not preserved on shutdown and powering up of the scope. As far as I have noticed thus far, all settings are preserved, although I am not sure of this of course. It would be nice if this would be so.

But: the SDS1202X-E is an awesome scope!

Koen
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: boggis the cat on June 04, 2017, 02:15:13 am
The best approach is to save setups, then load them before starting work.  Unless you have an excellent memory there are bound to be things set differently than you recall, so starting from a 'clean slate' with a known state is the safest approach.

If you're doing any critical amplitude measurements, allow for a warm up time then run the self cal routines.  They take less than five minutes, and can improve the accuracy a great deal.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on June 04, 2017, 02:29:01 am
The best approach is to save setups, then load them before starting work.  Unless you have an excellent memory there are bound to be things set differently than you recall, so starting from a 'clean slate' with a known state is the safest approach.
boggis, there's alternatives to saving setups with the X-E.
The factory Default setup can be now user defined to current settings or returned to factory as you wish.
Some explanation here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-siglent-sds1000x-e-oscilloscope-based-on-xilinx-zynq-7000-soc-architecture/msg1196101/#msg1196101 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-siglent-sds1000x-e-oscilloscope-based-on-xilinx-zynq-7000-soc-architecture/msg1196101/#msg1196101)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: boggis the cat on June 04, 2017, 03:49:39 am
Yes, I am aware of that.  It makes more sense to me to save setups for particular usage, but if you always want to start with particular settings it is useful to be able to modify the 'default' setup.

This instrument does seem fairly well thought out in this area.

It would be useful to have more control over the display of measurements (particularly the text size being quite small); and it seems dubious to present known-bad measurements, due to out of range issues -- I can't think of a reason to do this.  If anything, it would be sensible to go the other way and use the frequency counter to warn users of potential aliasing issues with timebase and signal frequency mismatches.

I haven't had much time fiddling with this as yet, though, and hadn't come across most of the bugs reported so far.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: klaff on June 05, 2017, 03:41:12 am
Blank zoom bug on SDS1202X-E.

Here I captured both channels at 2 ms/div, 7 Mpts, and zoomed in. At zoom of 500 ns/div the zoom window goes blank. It is fine at longer or shorter zoom settings, only blank at this one, and only in the first and last 25% of the capture.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: klaff on June 05, 2017, 03:58:31 am
SDS1202X-E Cursor Track Mode in Zoom bug
Cursors used in track mode in the zoom window use the main timebase scale, not the zoom scale, giving very incorrect values. Compare the deltaX for each of the attached.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on June 05, 2017, 04:23:07 am
Blank zoom bug on SDS1202X-E.

Here I captured both channels at 2 ms/div, 7 Mpts, and zoomed in. At zoom of 500 ns/div the zoom window goes blank. It is fine at longer or shorter zoom settings, only blank at this one, and only in the first and last 25% of the capture.
Only when Stop'ed right ? No problem when free running ?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on June 05, 2017, 04:27:24 am
SDS1202X-E Cursor Track Mode in Zoom bug
Cursors used in track mode in the zoom window use the main timebase scale, not the zoom scale, giving very incorrect values. Compare the deltaX for each of the attached.
Look at the Cursor colours, you have one image set for Ch 1 cursors and the other image set for Ch 2.
Kindly check them again please.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: klaff on June 05, 2017, 04:34:28 am
Blank zoom bug on SDS1202X-E.

Here I captured both channels at 2 ms/div, 7 Mpts, and zoomed in. At zoom of 500 ns/div the zoom window goes blank. It is fine at longer or shorter zoom settings, only blank at this one, and only in the first and last 25% of the capture.
Only when Stop'ed right ? No problem when free running ?
Yes, only when stopped. I hadn't noticed that as I was using Single mode for this work.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: klaff on June 05, 2017, 04:45:46 am
SDS1202X-E Cursor Track Mode in Zoom bug
Cursors used in track mode in the zoom window use the main timebase scale, not the zoom scale, giving very incorrect values. Compare the deltaX for each of the attached.
Look at the Cursor colours, you have one image set for Ch 1 cursors and the other image set for Ch 2.
Kindly check them again please.
It is true that I had one example on Ch1 and one example on Ch2 but I don't understand how that matters. When the cursors are in track mode, the deltaX calculation (and also the frequency or 1/deltaX) is wrong, regardless of which channel is selected.  Look at the screen copy showing Track Mode (...E31.png). The cursors are set to almost 5 divisions apart at 100ns/div and so the deltaX should be a little less than 500 ns. Instead, it shows 9.360 ms, which would be correct if the cursors were almost 5 divisions apart on the main timebase view of 2 ms/div. I showed the manual mode cursor screen shot just to show the approximately correct value of 468 ns.  Does that make sense?  Thanks.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: boggis the cat on June 05, 2017, 12:20:30 pm
Probable bug

Setup to recreate:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=321395;image)
Note 'spike' at zero on timebase

[Trigger Setup]
Change from Edge, back through to Edge (not important what is selected, or even if a different trigger type is selected)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=321397;image)
Spurious 'spike' is now gone.


Question about this behaviour

After pressing [Run/Stop] to halt acquisition, the display seems to change to the last waveform, rather than maintain the averaged waveform.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=321399;image)
While Running

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=321401;image)
After Stop

This seems to not be what you'd want to occur.  Is this a bug?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on June 06, 2017, 07:27:44 am
Memo from Siglent tech support tells me they have looked at and are addressing items identified in replies
#699, 703, 704, and 709. Plus some others in other threads that have been reported also.
Thanks all, let's hope you can get a quick fix for these bugs.

The word is soon, sorry I can't be more precise as to when.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: boggis the cat on June 06, 2017, 10:13:00 am
Easier way to reproduce this bug.


Probable bug

Setup to recreate:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=321732;image)
Note the odd trace behaviour at zero on timebase

Press [Trigger Setup] (no other action needed).

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=321734;image)
Trace now as expected.

Edit:

Both channels, same settings, offset +2 and -2 div for clarity.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=321738;image)
Ch 2 not affected, Ch1 has the bug.

Press the [Trigger Setup] button...
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=321740;image)
Then the bug scuttles away.  (Yes, I'm impatient.  Now you know why Rigol 'scopes drive me nuts.)

Edit 2:

Behaviour is linked to the trigger channel.  If you change the trigger channel to 2 then the bug appears on the channel 2 trace, and channel 1 looks correct.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: klaff on June 06, 2017, 11:39:59 am
Memo from Siglent tech support tells me they have looked at and are addressing items identified in replies
#699, 703, 704, and 709. Plus some others in other threads that have been reported also.
Thanks all, let's hope you can get a quick fix for these bugs.

The word is soon, sorry I can't be more precise as to when.

Awesome! Do you know if they are fixing the issue in which serial decoding isn't done for history frames other than the last?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ebastler on June 06, 2017, 11:55:42 am
Easier way to reproduce this bug.

  • Must allow warm up.
  • Bug only seems to affect Ch 1.

Probable bug

Behaviour is linked to the trigger channel.  If you change the trigger channel to 2 then the bug appears on the channel 2 trace, and channel 1 looks correct.

Hi boggis, isn't that "bug" called "triggering"?  :-//

You are looking at noise, and asking the scope to trigger at a positive edge of a certain level. So the scope will always show you traces which have a positive edge (and hence a little peak) at the position of the trigger time point. That's what is supposed to happen. Or did I misunderstand your description of the issue?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: boggis the cat on June 06, 2017, 12:04:27 pm
Hi boggis, isn't that "bug" called "triggering"?  :-//

You are looking at noise, and asking the scope to trigger at a positive edge of a certain level. So the scope will always show you traces which have a positive edge (and hence a little peak) at the position of the trigger time point. That's what is supposed to happen. Or did I misunderstand your description of the issue?
If this is the case, then I don't understand why simply 'waking up' the trigger fixes the issue.

This produces a discrepancy (small, but it is there) depending upon whether you have gone into the [Trigger Setup] menu or not.  Note that you don't have to actually change the trigger.

Edit:

Or breaks the correct behaviour, I suppose.  My thinking is that the noise shouldn't produce a slope like that shown up-thread.

This is the same signal in 'Dot' mode (shorter time base, at 2 ns/div):
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=321771;image)

Then after selecting the [Trigger Setup] then [Type Edge] (but not adjusting it):
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=321773;image)

Channel 1 or Channel 2 selected as trigger source:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=321775;image)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=321777;image)

So your explanation would be correct (maybe) if simply going into the trigger [Type] settings didn't cause the behaviour to suddenly change.  You can't get it to switch back, except through reloading the Default setup.

It just seems odd.  Does it not realise that there is no viable trigger until you enter the [Type] menu?  ???

Edit 2:

You can mess about with the false triggering, too.

Level at zero:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=321779;image)

Level at 200 uV:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=321781;image)

Level at -380 uV, falling:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=321783;image)

[Type] touched, fun over:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=321785;image)
 :-//
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: boggis the cat on June 06, 2017, 12:06:37 pm
Another trigger bug (may already be known).


This is the signal:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=321747;image)

Here it is at a shorter time base (roll mode off), rising edge trigger (as before):
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=321749;image)

Select falling edge, and it loses the plot...
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=321751;image)

...until you 'touch' the [Type] menu again
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=321753;image)
(Note that there is a short pulse in the middle, which is what it is correctly triggering on.)

Set it back to rising, loses the plot...
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=321755;image)

...until the [Type] menu gets a nudge.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=321757;image)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: StillTrying on June 06, 2017, 12:13:18 pm
Edit. Others have said the same, but after all this work I'll post it anyway!

I don't think boggis's Probable bug spike in Reply#709 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg1225790/#msg1225790) is a bug. With 16X average on all the random noise would average to 0, except at the positive trigger position. Similar with the CH1 kink in Reply#711

On his STOPping of an averaging waveform Reply#709 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg1225790/#msg1225790) the CML+ does something awkwardly similar on LongMem, in fact it doesn't stop on the last showning waveform it goes and gets another - while STOPped! which is not the one you wanted. Described here (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-cml-firmware/msg1110885/#msg1110885).

Reply#703 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg1225480/#msg1225480) describes an X TB expansion not being part of the waveform, the CML+ can do that as well! either in Delay/Zoom TB mode or just an expansion of a STOPped waveform. It appears to be something to do with the X trigger position being well away from the center X position.

Just not to be left out it can also do the moving 0V marker when there's a lot of the waveform off the screen/out of range, Reply#693. (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg1223792/#msg1223792). That might be normal (whatever that is) for such large overloads, 27Vpp on the 1V/Div. range. Probe and scope on X10 might help.

Deja vu.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: boggis the cat on June 06, 2017, 12:19:38 pm
I don't think boggis's Probable bug spike in Reply#709 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg1225790/#msg1225790) is a bug. With 16X average on all the random noise would average to 0, except at the positive trigger position. Similar with the CH1 kink in Reply#711
If this were the explanation, I don't see why just opening the trigger menu would make the trace change.

Refer to my 'easy method' to get this glitch / bug to appear.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ebastler on June 06, 2017, 01:08:38 pm
If this is the case, then I don't understand why simply 'waking up' the trigger fixes the issue.

This produces a discrepancy (small, but it is there) depending upon whether you have gone into the [Trigger Setup] menu or not.  Note that you don't have to actually change the trigger.

Edit:

Or breaks the correct behaviour, I suppose.  My thinking is that the noise shouldn't produce a slope like that shown up-thread.

In my view, the "bump" at the trigger position is actually the correct behavior. The triggering selects traces which have that bump, from the random input signal. Note that the trigger indicator in the upper left always shows "trigg'd" when the bump is visible-

When you enter trigger setup menu, something seems to change. The scope is no longer triggering; the indicator in the upper left shows "auto". No idea why that is the case, and that might indeed be a bug? Does the scope reset or change some trigger setting as soon as yo uenter the menu?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: boggis the cat on June 06, 2017, 01:40:53 pm
In my view, the "bump" at the trigger position is actually the correct behavior. The triggering selects traces which have that bump, from the random input signal. Note that the trigger indicator in the upper left always shows "trigg'd" when the bump is visible-
I would expect it to not trigger consistently when in the noise floor, so it seems that the post-menu activation behaviour is 'correct'.  (Although it is debatable' I guess.)

This 'scope has a 'digital triggering system' (or words to that effect) -- i.e. the triggering is software driven -- so it is down to how it interprets the data stream as it processes it.

Quote
When you enter trigger setup menu, something seems to change. The scope is no longer triggering; the indicator in the upper left shows "auto". No idea why that is the case, and that might indeed be a bug? Does the scope reset or change some trigger setting as soon as yo uenter the menu?
That is my assumption.  The [Default] operation is not setting the trigger behaviour correctly, then when you open that menu it refreshes the trigger immediately and clears the problem.

So, if this is a bug, the work around is to open that menu, or otherwise 'activate' that code.

Once it is in that post-menu behaviour you can't get the initial behaviour back, so it seems that this is the true intended 'default' behaviour for the trigger.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: StillTrying on June 06, 2017, 01:51:18 pm
I don't think boggis's Probable bug spike in Reply#709 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg1225790/#msg1225790) is a bug. With 16X average on all the random noise would average to 0, except at the positive trigger position. Similar with the CH1 kink in Reply#711
If this were the explanation, I don't see why just opening the trigger menu would make the trace change.

I agree there seems to be something odd going on, but I don't think 400uV of noise at 30MHz would be the best place to test it, much of that noise will be from the scope itself and would vary a bit depending on its settings, and even depending on what's on the LCD.

Your Another trigger bug Reply#715 also looks odd, turning peak detect mode on should show at least some of the very narrow transitions. With such a low frequency, slow timebase speed, and large memory are you sure it's not sticking in the pre- and post- trigger data gathering times.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ebastler on June 06, 2017, 02:24:20 pm
I would expect it to not trigger consistently when in the noise floor, so it seems that the post-menu activation behaviour is 'correct'.  (Although it is debatable' I guess.)

We are not on the same page here. The scope should trigger "consistently" whenever the signal crosses the trigger threshold, going positive.

If you look at where the 0V trigger threshold is shown on the screen, and where the signal is, there seems to be a small negative offset on the signal. Hence, the trigger will "pick out" slightly higher, positive-going peaks on the signal. And the scope will consistently show these peaks at the horizontal trigger position.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on June 06, 2017, 04:32:24 pm
Do you know if they are fixing the issue in which serial decoding isn't done for history frames other than the last?
AFAIK none of Siglent DSO's do this yet. I tried some time back with 1kX and 2kX of which the UI is very similar.

I'll ask if there are plans to implement it.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: boggis the cat on June 07, 2017, 04:42:37 am
I would expect it to not trigger consistently when in the noise floor, so it seems that the post-menu activation behaviour is 'correct'.  (Although it is debatable' I guess.)
We are not on the same page here. The scope should trigger "consistently" whenever the signal crosses the trigger threshold, going positive.
This seems to be what is happening, initially.  If you look at the 'dot' display screen-grabs, there is an obvious rectangle where negative signal is absent, to the right of the triggering point.

However, as soon as the trigger is refreshed, this behaviour changes.  Then it maintains this behaviour until you perform a reset (using the [Default] button, with factory settings in my case).

Quote
If you look at where the 0V trigger threshold is shown on the screen, and where the signal is, there seems to be a small negative offset on the signal. Hence, the trigger will "pick out" slightly higher, positive-going peaks on the signal. And the scope will consistently show these peaks at the horizontal trigger position.
But this isn't consistent.  As soon as the Trigger [Type] menu is opened (you needn't actually alter the setting, just open that menu) it changes behaviour, and maintains the new behaviour from then on.

The new behaviour is as I'd expect, where it doesn't trigger because there is nothing to trigger on.  (I haven't seen the initial behaviour in any 'scope before.  It is quite a common part of calibration practice to have a ground setting when testing the vertical gain accuracy, and generally with the averaging function set.  That is why the 'spike' got my attention -- it isn't normal to see that, and it certainly isn't normal for it to then vanish because the instrument changes it's mind...)

So either this is a 'feature' that disappears as soon as you go near the triggering, or it's a bug.  I think it's a bug.

(Not a major bug in itself -- but what does it point to in terms of how the 'scope is being initially set up?  I suspect there are errors in that process, leading to this initial behaviour.)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: StillTrying on June 07, 2017, 11:49:51 am
"The new behaviour is as I'd expect, where it doesn't trigger because there is nothing to trigger on."

How can you say there's nothing to trigger on when we can see the nearly 1 division high sine waves are still there, as in Replies #711 and #714. If you've carefully set the trigger level to get a view of the noise, you shouldn't loose that ability for no apparent reason.

I agree with ebastler that being able to trigger on the noise is the normal behavior, we've been doing it for years! after all, how do you know if it is random noise or a small signal, until you trigger on it.

Normal trigger is usually better than Auto trigger, although it's also a pain to use when the amplitudes are very low.

Quite unlikely random wild guess:
When opening the trig menu it checks it's on the 500uV range, realises an amplitude of 0.8 Div. is likely to be just noise, so doesn't bother triggering on anything less than 1 Div high.

Someone else with a SDS1202X-E ?  should try to reproduce it.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: kvd on June 07, 2017, 08:09:33 pm
Hi,

I think I have found another small bug in the SDS1202X-E software. It is about using a tracking cursor on FFT in split screen mode:

1. Open up FFT in exclusive screen mode
2. create a cursor on the MATH channel
3. set the cursor mode to TRACK
4. on the MATH channel, set the display mode to ‘Split Screen’

Now you will see that the cursor on the FFT is still visible, but in the wrong window. It is visible in the signal trace in the top window, not in the FFT window on the bottom. See the attached picture.

Note that this only happens on a tracking cursor. On a manual (either X or Y) it works fine.

Koen

Software Version 5.1.3.8
FPGA version: 2017-03-21
Hardware version: 00-01
Product Type: SDS1202X-E
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: boggis the cat on June 08, 2017, 08:33:25 am
How can you say there's nothing to trigger on when we can see the nearly 1 division high sine waves are still there, as in Replies #711 and #714. If you've carefully set the trigger level to get a view of the noise, you shouldn't loose that ability for no apparent reason.
Ignore the examples with sine interpolation set on, and look at the samples using 'dot' traces.  That is the actual data that the 'scope is working with.

The initial data is very odd, and obviously non-uniform in sampling.  The post-'trigger [Type] menu open' operation yields a quite different looking display.  This is what I would expect to see.

Quote
I agree with ebastler that being able to trigger on the noise is the normal behavior, we've been doing it for years!
You don't get this (initial) behaviour, though.  Not on any 'scope I have worked with.  What you get is the post-menu triggering behaviour.

Quote
after all, how do you know if it is random noise or a small signal, until you trigger on it.
This example just happens to be the best way to illustrate the odd behaviour.  If you are trying to measure a signal that is down in the noise then you're not going to get anywhere.

Quote
Normal trigger is usually better than Auto trigger, although it's also a pain to use when the amplitudes are very low.

Quite unlikely random wild guess:
When opening the trig menu it checks it's on the 500uV range, realises an amplitude of 0.8 Div. is likely to be just noise, so doesn't bother triggering on anything less than 1 Div high.

Someone else with a SDS1202X-E ?  should try to reproduce it.

I think that the behaviour must be due to the way triggering is being implemented in software.  The initial behaviour is due to the setup process (from [Default]) being broken, then the correct routine gets run as soon as you open the [Type] menu, fixing the odd behaviour.

It's a bug, and points to other possible subtle issues.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ebastler on June 08, 2017, 08:55:56 am
You don't get this (initial) behaviour, though.  Not on any 'scope I have worked with.  What you get is the post-menu triggering behaviour.

I certainly get this behavior on my DS1054Z, and consider it to be perfectly normal and expected. And this guy gets it on his DS4024 (but has not understood it either):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxXVDteO4Zs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxXVDteO4Zs)
-- the action starts at 1:15 or so.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: boggis the cat on June 08, 2017, 12:33:53 pm
You don't get this (initial) behaviour, though.  Not on any 'scope I have worked with.  What you get is the post-menu triggering behaviour.
I certainly get this behavior on my DS1054Z, and consider it to be perfectly normal and expected. And this guy gets it on his DS4024 (but has not understood it either)
Thanks for posting that.  Note that the video seems to show a consistent behaviour, with no change occurring.  Whatever algorithm is being run to calculate the trigger point stays the same.  This didn't appear to be the case with the Siglent -- but maybe it is just being modified in some way.

After more fiddling, it appears that you can (with patience) get back to the first type of behaviour.  Sometimes.  Unless I was hallucinating, because now I can't get it to do that again.  :-//

This initial result (Auto trigger mode, but that doesn't matter)...
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=321771;image)

...is not the same as this second result (obtained by simply opening the trigger [Type] menu -- not changing it):
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=321773;image)

No change to any settings was made, but the 'scope seems to re-evaluate the calculation -- either the algorithm gets re-started or some other process is involved.

Secondary point, not related to this bug (which is more of a weird aberration, as you can get back to that first behaviour with some effort) -- I consider the second screen-grab above, to be 'correct'.  The only way it could find a genuine trigger point would be if the algorithm found something that looked like a trigger.  If you look at the first screen-grab you can see that rectangle where no data points are present to the right of the central graticule (the trigger point).  That is an artefact of some kind.  It is persistent, and anomalous.

You should set the dot mode of your Rigol and see if you get the same artefact -- that rectangle of exclusion.  If so, the same algorithm must be in play.

Why the action of opening the trigger [Type] menu might restart the algorithm is explicable by the code restarting (interpreting it as 'restart the calculation with this trigger type') -- but the result changes, so some recalculation must be occurring.

Whether this has any practical effect when triggering on real signals, I don't know.  My second possible bug issue (with the pulse with an embedded 'glitch') seems to be a triggering issue, and has a similar 'solve by doing nothing (except opening the menu)' solution or work-around.

Consistent, predictable, behaviour?  Too boring, I guess.  (I bet the code running on this 'scope looks... interesting...   ;D)

Well:  :horse:

If I have nothing better to do sometime I may try to figure out what is going on here, but for now the underlying logic (?) eludes me.  I'm still calling this a bug.   :-BROKE
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ebastler on June 08, 2017, 12:52:21 pm
I consider the second screen-grab above, to be 'correct'.  The only way it could find a genuine trigger point would be if the algorithm found something that looked like a trigger.  If you look at the first screen-grab you can see that rectangle where no data points are present to the right of the central graticule (the trigger point).  That is an artefact of some kind.  It is persistent, and anomalous.

I'll try one last time; but I think I might just not be able to get my point across to you. (Or I continuously miss your point...)

If you have one sample below the trigger threshold, and the subsequent sample above the trigger threshold, that constitutes "a genuine trigger point". Because you have set the trigger condition to "positive edge", right?!

So, your scope is sitting and waiting, looking at a random sequence of samples which are above, above, below, below, above, below... the trigger threshold. The scope sits and waits until it sees a sequence of "one sample below, followed by one sample above the trigger threshold". Then it triggers. And it displays the sample sequence, centered at the trigger time point.

And guess what: The sample to the right of the trigger time point is always above the trigger threshold!!  Which is what your display shows, and what you describe as "that rectangle where no data points are present to the right of the central graticule (the trigger point)." And which is what you explicitly asked the scope to look for and trigger on.

So?!  :-//
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: colorado.rob on June 08, 2017, 07:46:37 pm
On the SDM3065X, when I enter Frequency measurement mode, and then select Range, what ranges should be present in the UI?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on June 09, 2017, 05:44:10 am
On the SDM3065X, when I enter Frequency measurement mode, and then select Range, what ranges should be present in the UI?
Goes something like: Auto, 200mV, 2V, 20V, 200V.
They are essentially sensitivity settings. eg. with open inputs at highest sensitivity you'll probably get ~2x mains frequency. Select a higher setting where the surrounding EMI/RFI does not meet thresholds and the display should show 0.000000 pHz.

I guess most users will just let the Auto setting sort it out.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: boggis the cat on June 09, 2017, 06:32:29 am
I consider the second screen-grab above, to be 'correct'.  The only way it could find a genuine trigger point would be if the algorithm found something that looked like a trigger.  If you look at the first screen-grab you can see that rectangle where no data points are present to the right of the central graticule (the trigger point).  That is an artefact of some kind.  It is persistent, and anomalous.

I'll try one last time; but I think I might just not be able to get my point across to you. (Or I continuously miss your point...)

If you have one sample below the trigger threshold, and the subsequent sample above the trigger threshold, that constitutes "a genuine trigger point". Because you have set the trigger condition to "positive edge", right?!

Do you think it likely that an entire block of sample points would happen to cluster in the manner that you see in the first screen-grab?  Statistically highly unlikely, for a single event.  For repeatable events -- can't happen.

Quote
So, your scope is sitting and waiting, looking at a random sequence of samples which are above, above, below, below, above, below... the trigger threshold. The scope sits and waits until it sees a sequence of "one sample below, followed by one sample above the trigger threshold". Then it triggers. And it displays the sample sequence, centered at the trigger time point.

No, because the data to the immediate right of the trigger point should be as random as any other data on-screen.  (This isn't with averaging mode set, in case that is what you're thinking.)  In other words, you shouldn't be able to discern a difference in the displayed signal in noise (or some other type of random signal source), even if you can get repeated triggering -- by setting the trigger threshold down in the noise.  The second screen-grab is closer to the 'ideal' correct display.

Quote
And guess what: The sample to the right of the trigger time point is always above the trigger threshold!!  Which is what your display shows, and what you describe as "that rectangle where no data points are present to the right of the central graticule (the trigger point)." And which is what you explicitly asked the scope to look for and trigger on.

So?!  :-//
First -- did you notice there are two behaviours shown?  There was no change to triggering involved.  So that seems to be some form of bug.

The second point concerning triggering behaviour on noise I covered above.  That is a more 'general' issue as it seems that at least some other 'scopes exhibit the same artefact.
Title: SDS 1202X-E
Post by: Pitrsek on June 09, 2017, 07:18:14 am
What is seriously missing:
No fine time base adjustment, at least what I could found.

What is driving me nuts:
Automatic roll mode for long timebase. If I want roll mode, I will turn it on myself, thank you.

What I would appreciate:
Better UI for FFT. I'd really like to set start, stop. Or use left half of screen, if I'm in a low frequency region.


What keysight X1000 can do - and siglent could probably too if wanted.
Trigger on channel that is not enabled. So you could use all of the memory for the one channel you are using.
Use trigger input as a digital channel.

Otherwise quite nice small scope, there are some features which I really like. I have it side by side witch X1000 - I'll share with my experience when I have more "wheel time"

EDIT:
Full-screen mode would by really nice. A way how to hide all of the menu, and expand trace to full screen. Cursors/measurements transparent in corner.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ebastler on June 09, 2017, 07:40:25 am
Do you think it likely that an entire block of sample points would happen to cluster in the manner that you see in the first screen-grab?  Statistically highly unlikely, for a single event.  For repeatable events -- can't happen.
Huh?! The display shows the overlay of many scans. You specifically set up the scope to trigger on a particular pattern (positive edge), and it is showing you events which exhibit this pattern.

Quote
First -- did you notice there are two behaviours shown?  There was no change to triggering involved.  So that seems to be some form of bug.
I never disputed that the change of behavior upon opening the trigger menu is an issue. I just tried to explain to you that the first behavior (where the scope is triggering on positive edges in the noise signal) is the correct one.

Sorry boggis; I'm officially giving up. Feel free to consider buggy or correct whatever you like.  |O
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: colorado.rob on June 09, 2017, 03:00:30 pm
On the SDM3065X, when I enter Frequency measurement mode, and then select Range, what ranges should be present in the UI?
Goes something like: Auto, 200mV, 2V, 20V, 200V.
They are essentially sensitivity settings. eg. with open inputs at highest sensitivity you'll probably get ~2x mains frequency.
Got it.  Thank you.

The SDG2000X uses the term "TrigLvl" for this, which seems like a better name than "Range".  "Range" in a frequency measurement mode implies a frequency range to me.  Maybe "TrigRng" would be a more clear label here?

Turns out I have a much better frequency measurement tool for the frequencies of interest in the SDG2000X.   It's built-in frequency counter can handle up to 200MHz.
Title: Re: SDS 1202X-E
Post by: kvd on June 09, 2017, 03:25:41 pm
What is driving me nuts:
Automatic roll mode for long timebase. If I want roll mode, I will turn it on myself, thank you.

If it switches to roll mode for long timebases you can switch of roll mode by pressing the roll button.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on June 09, 2017, 05:12:33 pm
On the SDM3065X, when I enter Frequency measurement mode, and then select Range, what ranges should be present in the UI?
Goes something like: Auto, 200mV, 2V, 20V, 200V.
They are essentially sensitivity settings. eg. with open inputs at highest sensitivity you'll probably get ~2x mains frequency.
Got it.  Thank you.

The SDG2000X uses the term "TrigLvl" for this, which seems like a better name than "Range".  "Range" in a frequency measurement mode implies a frequency range to me.  Maybe "TrigRng" would be a more clear label here?

Turns out I have a much better frequency measurement tool for the frequencies of interest in the SDG2000X.   It's built-in frequency counter can handle up to 200MHz.
Yes, it does seem strange the upper limit for SDM3065X is only 3 MHz.  :-//
10 MHz would have been more useful one would think, especially for those with GPS referenced 10 MHz labs.
Let's see if Siglent can squeeze it up some in new FW to come.
Title: Re: SDS 1202X-E
Post by: Pitrsek on June 10, 2017, 10:43:32 am
What is driving me nuts:
Automatic roll mode for long timebase. If I want roll mode, I will turn it on myself, thank you.

If it switches to roll mode for long timebases you can switch of roll mode by pressing the roll button.
Yes, I can. And that is what drives me nuts. Zoom out your time base, and now it rolls... push the button to disable it. Zoom out in few minutes again, and it rolls again... If I want it to roll, I will turn it on... It does something, what I do not want to do, automatically, and as a result I need to keep pushing buttons.... I think this functionality should be user selectable in options.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: colorado.rob on June 11, 2017, 03:32:21 am
Yes, it does seem strange the upper limit for SDM3065X is only 3 MHz.  :-//
10 MHz would have been more useful one would think, especially for those with GPS referenced 10 MHz labs.
Let's see if Siglent can squeeze it up some in new FW to come.
That would be appreciated.  I need at least 20MHz to be useful for my needs.  I just acquired a handheld meter (Agilent U1252B) that can do it.  These days a new bench DMM really should have a decent frequency counter.  I don't need microwave frequencies or 12 digits of precision, but something into the 100MHz range would be useful.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: charliedelta on June 11, 2017, 06:17:12 am
All that i can suggest is this:

In your spectrum analyzer range dont offer options, include everything and offer a best  price that puts the competition to shame.

I can understand from a profit point of view why options make good sense, but from a practical end user point of view having every available option  makes a lot of sense.

A good example is the EMC and  Advanced Measurements options, I dont really see why these should be options on a Spectrum analyzer. I never feel loyalty to a manufacturer when I feel like I am getting milked.

The other point is that we have to pay sales tax on many options its far better to pay the tax on one price that includes options rather than multiple  charges as you option up the instrument. I would think it also reduces distribution and handling costs as well.

Title: Re: SDS 1202X-E
Post by: boggis the cat on June 11, 2017, 11:26:59 am
Yes, I can. And that is what drives me nuts. Zoom out your time base, and now it rolls... push the button to disable it. Zoom out in few minutes again, and it rolls again... If I want it to roll, I will turn it on... It does something, what I do not want to do, automatically, and as a result I need to keep pushing buttons.... I think this functionality should be user selectable in options.
I agree that any behaviour like this should be selectable.  Some people seem to prefer the automatic switching to roll mode, so it would be smart to put this in an options menu.

There is a potential issue with customer support when you have a lot of configurability, but this can be easily dealt with by the restore to presets option.  Items such as digital cameras can have hundreds of options, and it is assumed that the user will know what they're doing.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: DazA1 on June 15, 2017, 04:47:39 pm
Has there been any update on the bugs with the Siglent hand held scopes?

Specifically the SHS1062 & SHS806 oscilloscopes.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: pantelei4 on June 15, 2017, 05:50:41 pm
Has there been any update on the bugs with the Siglent hand held scopes?

Specifically the SHS1062 & SHS806 oscilloscopes.
I have SHS806.
They did not correct stupid mistakes in a few years.  |O
I wanted to buy Siglent 2202x, but changed my mind and bought Rigol2072A.:horse:
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on June 15, 2017, 08:11:22 pm
Has there been any update on the bugs with the Siglent hand held scopes?

Specifically the SHS1062 & SHS806 oscilloscopes.
The last FW updates were in March.
What is your intended use ?
I've got an 810, do you want me to check on something in particular ?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: exe on June 15, 2017, 10:18:45 pm
Hey, guys, I sort of have an issue with triggering that worries me. Basically, my sds1202x-e does not reliably trigger when I put triggering level close to the bottom of waveform. It also looses triggering when I change vertical scale. Please see this on the video:  https://goo.gl/photos/AC14aGX4sPcB3E599 (the signal source is sdg2042x with latest firmware).

How I noticed this: there were some periodic glitches on the screen for 5+MHz sine signal (like, every 3-5 seconds it lost triggering for a moment, no problems on low frequencies). I started to play with the parameters and found that trigger sometimes does not work the way I expect and the way I saw it working on other scopes.

Guys, please advice. Is me doing something wrong, is it a faulty hardware or a software bug? If it's a hardware I would like to send my unit back to the seller till it's possible...

PS Sorry, tautech, for reposting, but my 14 days return period is expiring soon, I need to make a decision. I'm a bit nervous :(

PPS I tried rebooting, "default" button, warm-up for 30mins, self-calibration, firmware update (none available), "auto-setup", hold-off .

PPPS Sorry if problem was already discussed.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: DazA1 on June 15, 2017, 11:32:14 pm
Some of issues with the Siglent SHS series of hand held scopes is listed on page 25 of this thread.

Over the years i have been in contact with siglent sending emails detailing the issues but i gave up and hoped posting to a public discussion might change things.

I have said before the issue is not with the hardware it is the firmware that let's these scopes down.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: colorado.rob on June 26, 2017, 03:31:05 am
Hey folks,

I picked up an SDS2204X with MSO option from Saelig a couple weeks ago and had the first opportunity to use it in anger this weekend.

The digital interface worked great.  The screen is so much nicer than the old Rigol I had been using.

One thing that's taking some getting used to is switching from the "filter" feature on the Rigol to "Eres" on the Siglent.  I live close to the loop in Chicago where all the radio and TV transmitters are located.  I can clearly make out every radio station in Chicago on my FFT.  So filtering the signal is a must.  Otherwise there is 50mV of noise centered at 98MHz.  (If you have suggestions for minimizing this problem, I'm open to listeneing.)

One issue I had on the analog side (when using only analog input) was that the trigger indicator would go missing and I could not bring it up on the screen.  It would tell me what the trigger level was, and I could see the effect of changing it on the trace, but the dotted bar would not show up.  Is this a known issue?  I wish I knew how to reproduce it but it "just happened" a couple times. Turning off the scope would make it work again.  Is this a known issue?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on June 26, 2017, 09:15:09 am
Hey folks,

I picked up an SDS2204X with MSO option from Saelig a couple weeks ago and had the first opportunity to use it in anger this weekend.

The digital interface worked great.  The screen is so much nicer than the old Rigol I had been using.

One thing that's taking some getting used to is switching from the "filter" feature on the Rigol to "Eres" on the Siglent.  I live close to the loop in Chicago where all the radio and TV transmitters are located.  I can clearly make out every radio station in Chicago on my FFT.  So filtering the signal is a must.  Otherwise there is 50mV of noise centered at 98MHz.  (If you have suggestions for minimizing this problem, I'm open to listeneing.)
Adding additional external attenuation at the inputs is all I can suggest.
I had a look at this issue using a 2" coax loop, FFT centered on 100 MHz and I too can clearly see our FM band from transmitters some 10 to 20 miles away. Screenshot attached.

Quote
One issue I had on the analog side (when using only analog input) was that the trigger indicator would go missing and I could not bring it up on the screen.  It would tell me what the trigger level was, and I could see the effect of changing it on the trace, but the dotted bar would not show up.  Is this a known issue?  I wish I knew how to reproduce it but it "just happened" a couple times. Turning off the scope would make it work again.  Is this a known issue?
It might just be user error. If the trigger level is set to ~ 50% of a waveform and the sensitivity increased the trigger will travel upwards and sometimes off the display. In these cases the trigger level indicator will be at the top right of the display and pointing upwards not outwards into the display area.

When you've lost the trigger.......and you have Auto triggering set, press the trigger level control to automatically set the trigger to 50% of the waveform amplitude.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: colorado.rob on June 26, 2017, 02:37:58 pm
Quote
One issue I had on the analog side (when using only analog input) was that the trigger indicator would go missing and I could not bring it up on the screen.  It would tell me what the trigger level was, and I could see the effect of changing it on the trace, but the dotted bar would not show up.  Is this a known issue?  I wish I knew how to reproduce it but it "just happened" a couple times. Turning off the scope would make it work again.  Is this a known issue?
It might just be user error. If the trigger level is set to ~ 50% of a waveform and the sensitivity increased the trigger will travel upwards and sometimes off the display. In these cases the trigger level indicator will be at the top right of the display and pointing upwards not outwards into the display area.

When you've lost the trigger.......and you have Auto triggering set, press the trigger level control to automatically set the trigger to 50% of the waveform amplitude.
I could see the voltage level of CH1 and the trigger voltage level in the little info boxes on the right hand side of the screen, so I knew what the trigger level was set to.  And I could see the effect of changing the trigger level of the signal.  The full waveform of the signal was visible on the screen.  I just could not see the trigger level indicator.

Sounds like no one else has seen this issue.  I'll have to grab a screenshot if it occurs again.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: exe on June 26, 2017, 06:05:12 pm
One issue I had on the analog side (when using only analog input) was that the trigger indicator would go missing and I could not bring it up on the screen.  It would tell me what the trigger level was, and I could see the effect of changing it on the trace, but the dotted bar would not show up.  Is this a known issue?  I wish I knew how to reproduce it but it "just happened" a couple times. Turning off the scope would make it work again.  Is this a known issue?

If remember correctly, trigger cursor disappears when AC-coupled. This was quite annoying. It still indicates on the screen current trigger voltage. Can't check on my unit as I packed it to ship back  >:D
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: colorado.rob on June 26, 2017, 06:19:19 pm
One issue I had on the analog side (when using only analog input) was that the trigger indicator would go missing and I could not bring it up on the screen.  It would tell me what the trigger level was, and I could see the effect of changing it on the trace, but the dotted bar would not show up.  Is this a known issue?  I wish I knew how to reproduce it but it "just happened" a couple times. Turning off the scope would make it work again.  Is this a known issue?

If remember correctly, trigger cursor disappears when AC-coupled. This was quite annoying. It still indicates on the screen current trigger voltage.

That would make sense as that is something I was doing at the time.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: sng61 on June 27, 2017, 03:58:30 pm
Hello.
I recently purchased model SDS 1202X-E. Very fast and functional. But very uncomfortable interface. Showing only 4 measurements, and very small font size. Before that, I used the oscilloscope Hantek DSO 5102B in my work, and there was a very convenient display of all measurements, 8 of them at once - and all in large font. I propose to make the font of the numbers more 2 times, and the name of the parameter itself - to leave small. So it will be much clearer to read and it is more convenient to work with the device.

For comparison: (Hantek 5102B and Siglent 1202X-E):

(http://savepic.net/9474471m.jpg) (http://savepic.net/9474471.htm)

And one more drawback - if there is no measurement of some parameter, then do not show three stars ("***"), but just leave an empty space. So there will be less unnecessary meltesheniya on the screen, which without it is well loaded with information.

A big request in future firmware is to fix this small - but very unpleasant lack of such an excellent device.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: colorado.rob on June 28, 2017, 01:24:20 am
One issue I had on the analog side (when using only analog input) was that the trigger indicator would go missing and I could not bring it up on the screen.  It would tell me what the trigger level was, and I could see the effect of changing it on the trace, but the dotted bar would not show up.  Is this a known issue?  I wish I knew how to reproduce it but it "just happened" a couple times. Turning off the scope would make it work again.  Is this a known issue?

If remember correctly, trigger cursor disappears when AC-coupled. This was quite annoying. It still indicates on the screen current trigger voltage.

That would make sense as that is something I was doing at the time.

Confirmed.  When AC coupling or LF Reject is selected, the trigger cursor disappears.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rfspezi on June 30, 2017, 07:34:00 pm
On my SDS1202X scope i got offset jumps when switching between different voltage ranges and time bases.
For example on channel 1 using 200 mV/div, when crossing the timebase boarder from 5us->2us using a single channel and from 2us->1us using both channels.
I did the self calibration several times without any change.

Here are some examples of my offset values:
(In every vertical scale i stepped through all time-bases and took the worse looking one)
----------------------
-9 mV @ 5 mV/div
-10 mV @ 10 mV/div
-7 mV @ 20 mV/div
-8 mV @ 50 mV/div
-8 mV @ 100 mV/div
+40 mV @ 200 mV/div
+40 mV @ 500 mV/div
-120 mV @ 1 V/div
-320 mV @ 2 V/div
+400 mV @ 5 V/div
-800 mV @ 10 V/div
-4000 mV @ 20V/div
+4000 mV @ 50V/div
-8000 mV @ 100V/div

Are these offsets normal?
In the datasheet on page 6 they state:

Quote
Offset Accuracy:
    ±(1%* Offset+1.5%*8*div+2 mV): ?2 mV/div
    ±(1%* Offset+1.5%*8*div+500 uV): ?1 mv/div

Can anybody give me an example how to calculate the maximum offset error for e.g. 200 mV/div?
Many thanks!
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on June 30, 2017, 08:01:16 pm
Please check you have the latest FW installed, it came out in April and addresses Self Cal optimisation.
http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5203&tid=15 (http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=5203&tid=15)

Come back and tell us if it's better or not.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Paul Moir on July 01, 2017, 06:56:07 am
rfspezi, I think I had a similar problem with mine.  It went away after I did a self cal after letting it warm up for over 30 minutes.  Previously I had done a self cal after only letting it warm up for a few minutes.
There seems to be something odd going on during the warmup.  If I crank the gain up at startup, I'm seeing the traces jump about 1/3rd a division in distinct steps every 10 or 20 seconds, starting around div and a half out.  After about 30 minutes they settle down to bang on 0v.  This isn't an analog drift but a very distinct jump to a very precise position.  Sometimes closer to zero but sometimes away, but always eventually ending up at 0.  I've tried it with terminators and it does the same thing.   I suspect it is some sort of warmup compensation routine that actually doesn't do any good.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: PA4TIM on July 01, 2017, 08:07:02 am
I made 2 reviews about the SHS-1062 number 1 https://youtu.be/R5lTLuclk1M
While doing that I found a bug. In scope mode when I use the run/stop the trace disapears after a short while (I noticed that a few days after the review while using it)

Yesterday I powered it up while it was in in log mode. I pressed on scope and the 2 modes "merged"  I had to repower it to go away.

The accuracy is not bad but the RMS value in scope mode is a bit off, but only at lower voltages

Continuity sucks but that is not a bug. The DMM IC is made to use a LCD display and I think they use the rs232 to talk to the rest of the scope. Maybe that is to slow. It takes several seconds to beeb

The menu structure can use a big update. Sometimes you need the menu button to select, sometimes the "right arrow" etc

The inverse color can use better combinations to make it better readable (more contrast instead lightgreen, yellow)

But beside this faults I really like this scope, a pity it has to go back to the dealer next week.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on July 01, 2017, 08:18:48 am
I made 2 reviews about the SHS-1062 number 1 (YT link)
While doing that I find a bug. In scope mode when I use the run/stop the trace dissapears after a short while (I noticed that a few days after the review while using it)

Yesterday I powered it up while it was in in log mode. I pressed one scope and the 2 modes "merged"  I had to repower it to go away.

The accuracy is not bad but the RMS value in scope mode is a bit off, but only at lower voltages

Continuity swucks but that is not a bug. The DMM IC is made to use a LCD display and I think they use ther rs232 to talk to the rest of the scope. Mabey that is to slow. It takes several seconds to beeb

The menu structure can use a big update. Sometimes you need the menubutton to select, sometimes the " richt arrow" etc

The inverse color can use better coninations to make it better readable (more contrast lightgreen, yellow)

But beside this faults I really like this scope, a pitty it has to go back to the dealer.
Thanks for the vids, watched a few days ago and forwarded to Siglent.
Yep, Continuity is bad, painfully slow and Siglent are well aware of comments on this going back some time.

Thanks for reporting the bugs, I'll forward your post to Siglent right now.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: DazA1 on July 02, 2017, 02:19:54 pm
@tautech

Did you have time to look at the problems i and others have had on your own SHS806?

Do you know if these problems are being worked on?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on July 03, 2017, 09:46:41 am
@tautech

Did you have time to look at the problems i and others have had on your own SHS806?

Do you know if these problems are being worked on?
I know Siglent see all that's in this thread and more that I and others point them to.
TBH I think the SHS FW needs some freshening up as HH's are gaining in popularity, not only for portability but isolation from mains ground. The FW we know today is much the same as when I first sold Siglent and needs smartening up some to be competitive.
What they will do I have no idea but they have in the past reworked FW like in the SDS2000 to end up with a better  GUI.
By all means put some suggestions forward.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: colorado.rob on July 06, 2017, 03:23:01 pm
I own a growing collection of Siglent test equipment.  Two of the items that I have are the SDM3065X and the SDG2042X.  They appear to use the same (or very similar) rubber bumpers on the front and back.  These bumpers have a bump on one side (top or bottom) and an indent on the opposite side into which the bump will fit.  This allows gear to be securely stacked on top of one another.  Or, rather, it would if Siglent bothered to always install the bumpers so that the bumps (feet) were down and the indents were up.  However, on the two items mentioned, they are opposite one another.

Siglent, please standardize the installation of the bumpers, preferrably with the bumps facing down on all of your equipment.

Also, please consider securing the nuts on the inside of the case.  I swapped a pair of bumpers on the SDG so the two would fit as described and had a hard time getting a couple of the nuts to stay put while I put it back together, and almost lost one inside the gap between the case and faceplate.

One other item: consider adding graphing options to the frequency counter on the SDG2000X series.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on July 07, 2017, 08:47:19 am
Siglent, please standardize the installation of the bumpers, preferrably with the bumps facing down on all of your equipment.
They have and I knew this too.  :palm:

From factory tech support: (abbreviated)
In the last year or so the bumpers have been standardized but you have got models from pre and post standardization.

IIRC a later model I looked at did have captured nuts so to overcome the problem you describe.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: N8AUM on July 07, 2017, 06:19:26 pm
Probable bug

Setup to recreate:
  • No signal applied
  • [Default]
  • Ch 1 [V/div] to 500 uV/div (must choose a low setting, as hard to notice at 2 mV/div and greater)
  • [Acquire] > Average 16
  • [Measure] > Clear, then add Type > Mean
  • [Menu On/Off]
  • [Clear Sweeps]

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=321395;image)
Note 'spike' at zero on timebase

[Trigger Setup]
Change from Edge, back through to Edge (not important what is selected, or even if a different trigger type is selected)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=321397;image)
Spurious 'spike' is now gone.


Question about this behaviour

After pressing [Run/Stop] to halt acquisition, the display seems to change to the last waveform, rather than maintain the averaged waveform.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=321399;image)
While Running

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=321401;image)
After Stop

This seems to not be what you'd want to occur.  Is this a bug?

This is normal, it is triggering on noise
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ebastler on July 07, 2017, 06:24:45 pm
Probable bug
This is normal, it is triggering on noise

You are wasting your time there, I'm afraid. If you follow the thread along further, you will notice that "boggis" has been quite impervious to that explanation.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: N8AUM on July 07, 2017, 06:50:06 pm
Yet another possible "BUG" or is this some special feature lol
I just purchased a SSA 3032X and noticed this. I my brother has has the SSA 3021X and I  asked him if he can duplicate my findings which he did. While measuring any signal around -50dbm with RBW at 300Hz, span around 50K and having MIN HOLD enabled I get the following display. Am I missing something, none of my other SA's do that. I also upgraded firmware from V1.2.8.2. to V1.2.8.3.

Any ideas ?

N8AUM  Vidas

   
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on July 08, 2017, 07:40:22 pm


www.keysight.com/upload/cmc_upload/All/5952-0292EN.pdf (http://www.keysight.com/upload/cmc_upload/All/5952-0292EN.pdf)

Page 46

ADC autoranging.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: boggis the cat on July 09, 2017, 06:54:28 am
This is normal, it is triggering on noise
There is a change in behaviour.  The 'new' behaviour then sticks, and is what I consider correct.

So no, it isn't "normal".  Either the initial behaviour or the subsequent (different) behaviour may be normal, but they can't both be.


Edit:

Retesting this seems to indicate that it is only real noise sources (e.g. shorted or open terminals) that produce the aberrant triggering.  It is also progressively less pronounced as you move to longer timebases.

Using a pseudo-noise source (multiple modulated sine waves, from a Feeltech Arb device) or a repetitive signal yields the expected triggering behaviour, after "Default" settings.  No fiddling with the trigger menus is necessary.

In practical terms, this isn't likely to be particularly significant.


I did also try to reproduce the other triggering issues reported, and could not get the issues described -- although the triggering behaviour does seem a bit marginal in some cases.  There is a significant 'dead band' of around half a division where edge triggering doesn't seem to work (checked using sinusoidal and similar repetitive waveforms, exists at the the base of the signal for positive edge and vice versa), and the line indicating the trigger level does indeed vanish under certain circumstances.  So there are some behaviours that are not ideal that could be looked into, as well as the trigger indication bug to be fixed.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: KeBeNe on July 09, 2017, 08:26:51 am
Yet another possible "BUG" or is this some special feature lol
I just purchased a SSA 3032X and noticed this. I my brother has has the SSA 3021X and I  asked him if he can duplicate my findings which he did. While measuring any signal around -50dbm with RBW at 300Hz, span around 50K and having MIN HOLD enabled I get the following display. Am I missing something, none of my other SA's do that. I also upgraded firmware from V1.2.8.2. to V1.2.8.3.

Any ideas ?

N8AUM  Vidas

the same here (3021X + 3032X FW 1.2.8.3.)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: colorado.rob on July 10, 2017, 12:49:09 am
I am looking at Siglent's generic Programming Guide For Digital Oscilloscopes Series (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/Program_Material/ProgrammingGuide_forSDS.pdf) (warning: PDF link) that is available from the SDS2000X documentation section and from the global documentation area on Siglent America's web site. I do not see any instructions for accessing the AWG functionality.  Nor do I see any commands documented for the logic analyzer portion of the device. Please provide an update for this.

My immediate quest is to get a screen dump over VXI-11/SCPI .  To that end, I am trying to understand the "SCREEN_DUMP" and related "HARDCOPY_SETUP" commands.  But SCDP just seems to hang the VXI-11 session when using PyVISA and PyVISA-py.  Screen capture seems to work for EasyScopeX, so there must be some way to do this.  Based on a network capture, this should work:

Code: (python) [Select]
#!/usr/bin/env python

import visa, sys
from pyvisa.constants import StatusCode

rm = visa.ResourceManager('@py')

# Siglent SDS2204X
scope = rm.open_resource('TCPIP::sds2204x')
sys.stdout.write(scope.query("*IDN-SGLT-PRI?"))
sys.stdout.write(scope.query("*CHS?"))
n, status = scope.write('SCDP')
if status == StatusCode.success:
    print("Success...")
    data = scope.read_raw()
    sys.stdout.write(data)
scope.close()
rm.close()

Unfortunately, it just hangs at "scope.read_raw()".  Running the same code on my Macbook Pro using NI VISA drivers results in this error in the same place:

Code: [Select]
pyvisa.errors.VisaIOError: VI_ERROR_INV_PROT (-1073807239): The protocol specified is invalid.


Siglent,

1. How do I download a screendump image using SCPI from an SDS2204X?  Please docurment the SCDP command adequately.
2. What is the format of WF parameter "DESC"?
3. How do I access the digital channel data via SCPI of this MSO?
4. How do I control the scope's AWG via SCPI?  This is apparently possible since EasyWave can talk to it.
5. How do I read frames from the segmented buffer via SCPI?
6. Shouldn't the "MSIZ?" query return "MSIZ 140M" on the SDS2204X?  It returns "MSIZ 14M".
7. You'll notice that I am using two undocumented SCPI commands in my code.  How about documenting these for those of us playing along at home?

The SCPI command interface for this scope is woefully inadequate.  Look at Rigol's SCPI documentation for comparable scopes: a well thought-out command structure, and detailed documentation.  Siglent's SCPI support and documentation seem rather amateurish in comparison.  Please provide SCPI controls for the AWG and digital inputs.  And please update the documentation.

Rob
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on July 10, 2017, 01:05:58 am
There's a later version of the Programming Guide here:
http://siglentamerica.com/support_download_28 (http://siglentamerica.com/support_download_28)

I don't know (haven't checked) if there's more info in it to help you solve your issues.

Note, the User manual is very recent too, maybe more recent than what you've been using.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: colorado.rob on July 10, 2017, 02:55:34 am
I'll have to read through this.  At first glance, it doesn't appear that any of my issues have been addressed.  The SCDP command is still completely undocumented.  I see nothing for the AWG or digital channels.

That said, I have SCDP working with PyVISA-py now.  It still fails with the NI-VISA drivers on OSX.

https://gist.github.com/mobilinkd/8a07cc124946c87715c6a1458118411e

This will do a screendump over the network from a Siglent DSO.  It should be easily adapted to use USB.  I would like to get this to the point that it automatically transcodes the image to a reasonable format like PNG.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: colorado.rob on July 12, 2017, 12:59:27 am
I am trying to measure two audio waveforms on CH1 and CH2 on my SDS2204X.  CH1 is a filtered and amplified version of CH2.  I have the scaling of the two channels adjusted so that the waveforms are superimposed on one another.  I have the trigger mode set to Auto.  Acquisition mode is Eres @ 1.5 bits.  When the scope is in Run mode, the two waveforms are closely correlated as expected.  When I press Stop, the waveforms are uncorrelated.  The two channels do not appear to be stopping at the same time.

If I put the trigger mode to Normal and put the trigger level near the limits of the signal so that it is not triggering frequently, the waveform is always correlated when triggered, but I can still get an uncorrelated waveform by pressing Stop if more than one trigger event occurs in rapid succession.

This is driving me nuts. This seems like a bug to me.  Am I doing something wrong?  Have I missed some subtle detail in the User Guide?  Or do I have no right to expect that Stop will stop both channels at the same time?

* Addendum: this only seems to happen in Eres mode.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on July 12, 2017, 01:31:46 am
C.rob
I have forwarded your last few posts to the factory and some to the USA that best fits your timezone, I will send reminders and this one.............
T

Reply from the US: (travelling ATM)
Please ask him to write us at
info@siglent.com

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on July 12, 2017, 05:01:00 am

There is a significant 'dead band' of around half a division where edge triggering doesn't seem to work (checked using sinusoidal and similar repetitive waveforms, exists at the the base of the signal for positive edge and vice versa),

Please can you define it more accurate. Do you have any  documented and trusted data for this?

Do you perhaps mean that trigger hysteresis is bad thing? There is trigger level hysteresis - and there need be.  I believe that mostly peoples in most situations do not want zero hysteresis for edge trigger.



This oscilloscope do not have freely adjustable trigger hysteresis setting(1) as example in some Rohde&Schwarz models. Siglent have selected some average good compromise for this.

Normally there is around <0.3 vertical div hysteresis  "window". When trigger is DC coupled, as usually is, and if edge trigger is rising edge, hysteresis treshold is below triger setting level and "trig" treshold is at trigger level. If falling edge is selected trigger hysteresis treshold is overside trig level setting and final "trig" treshold is trigger level. For trigged acquisition signal need cross both these treshold. After then waveform position is fine adjusted to trig time position. Fine positioning have  much more resolution than sampling interval due to "oversampling" - fine interpolation.

(1)There is one selection what change trigger hysteresis. In trigger set menu there is  "Noise reject" on/off. Normally (default) it is off. If user turn this on, trigger hysteresis is more wide. Around nearly 0.8 div. (upper or lower side of trigger level set, depending if rising or falling edge is selected.)

Benefits of R&S RTO digital trigger system (pdf) (https://cdn.rohde-schwarz.com/pws/dl_downloads/dl_application/00aps_undefined/Benefits_of_RTO_digital_trigger_system_2.pdf)
Page 10 about trigger hysteresis. Also whope paper is good to read for better understanding digital trigger system. Albeit this Siglent model is lot of more simple machine but still it follow these basic principles.

Knowing how equipment really works is very extremely important for avoid misconceptions and false claims.

Previously in this thread was also other total mess where signal was noise and wondering how it show peak in trigger position. Jus due to lack of enough knowledge and experience about how these things work even in basic entry level things.






Then:
Quote
... and the line indicating the trigger level does indeed vanish under certain circumstances.

Can you define it with facts anbd details (data! instead of opinions). And the reasons why it should be different, taking into account all the relevant factors.



Here some simplified case what perhaps make this trigger hysteresis more clear.
Only show Edge and rising. Falling edge trigger: this hyst is also just opposite direction.

Cursors are used here only for show trigger hysteresis treshold levels. (hysteresis window borders)

In first image trigger looks bistable because there narrow hystereis but signal have this sawtooth "noise" and trig conditions are met more than one places.

Second image have wide trigger hysteresis and now signal loogs rock solid on the screen.

Images have adjusted for clarify this thing, not for show "nice looking image". This is also why signal is extremely simply.
For better show more rare trigger position (exist only in first image) there is used 5 second persistence in both images.


Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: boggis the cat on July 13, 2017, 01:11:00 pm
There is a significant 'dead band' of around half a division where edge triggering doesn't seem to work (checked using sinusoidal and similar repetitive waveforms, exists at the the base of the signal for positive edge and vice versa),

Please can you define it more accurate. Do you have any  documented and trusted data for this?
No, not using the cheap Feeltech Arb I have at home.  I only checked up to 5 Vpp, too.  The edge trigger drop-out may improve at higher V/div settings.

This is just general observations of behaviour.  Finding the exact points would require better signals, and be a bit pointless as there is no specification.

Quote
Do you perhaps mean that trigger hysteresis is bad thing? There is trigger level hysteresis - and there need be.  I believe that mostly peoples in most situations do not want zero hysteresis for edge trigger.
The algorithm used does have to ensure that a stable edge has been found.  I would think that three data points would be sufficient to establish that, at a minimum.

Without knowing what the 'scope is expected to do it is difficult to differentiate a bug from intentional behaviour.  However, the broader you make that 'dead band', the less useful the triggering is.

Quote
Also whope paper is good to read for better understanding digital trigger system. Albeit this Siglent model is lot of more simple machine but still it follow these basic principles.
It is the specific implementation that is the issue, not the principle.  We don't know much about this.  The specifications are quite sparse.  (This isn't documented in the manner of a high-end Keysight or Tektronix 'scope.)

Referring to a white paper from another manufacturer doesn't tell you anything about Siglent's implementation.

Quote
Knowing how equipment really works is very extremely important for avoid misconceptions and false claims.
You have this backwards.  Testing the equipment yields how it "really works".  If we don't know how it is supposed to work (insufficient documentation), then we cannot tell if it meets its specifications.

Quote
Previously in this thread was also other total mess where signal was noise and wondering how it show peak in trigger position. Jus due to lack of enough knowledge and experience about how these things work even in basic entry level things.
The behaviour I noted isn't correct.  Just because some Rigol 'scopes also behave oddly in a similar manner doesn't make the result correct (and if I recall correctly, Siglent is the older company, so I would guess that the algorithms got 'borrowed' by Rigol) -- you have to consider what the ideal is, and if the result departs from that in a systematic and aberrant way.

I noted that the pseudo-'noise' from the Feeltech Arb I have is triggered on as expected -- all of the sinusoidal-based waveforms are centred as expected, with either rising or falling edge set.  Real noise, such as amplified open input (setting the V/div to small values), produces some odd 'stacking' effects.  In some circumstances, initial results will change by simply opening the trigger menu.

Given that triggering consistently and predictably on noise is not a practical concern (we use 'scopes to inspect signals, where defined trigger points are important), this may not matter for usage.  It may indicate problems or limitations in the algorithms used, however, so noting such behaviour might be of some use to those writing the algorithms.

Quote
Then:
Quote
... and the line indicating the trigger level does indeed vanish under certain circumstances.

Can you define it with facts anbd details (data! instead of opinions). And the reasons why it should be different, taking into account all the relevant factors.
When you adjust the trigger level there is a horizontal line to indicate where that level is, along with the numeric indication.  But that line will disappear under some circumstances.  Also, it seems odd that if you change from DC to AC coupling the trigger level is still settable, but only the numeric indication is present (and persistent, it doesn't snap back to zero).

There are a few odd bugs of this type, and other people have already documented them fairly well here.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on July 13, 2017, 04:19:54 pm
ther things just  |O

 :bullshit:

Lets take this case: Missing trigger level indicator when trigger coupling is AC.  |O |O
Also it looks like you do not know how trigger coupling AC works and what it means. Please study first and after then claim bugs.
(it works perfect and also there is NOT level indicator, and there must NOT be)

You can demonstrate this your self how it works and after  you have done your home works come on again and explain what you see and after then please arguments (and please think carefully before show your arguments) for trigger level indicator mark.

I will set this home work example like this: If you do not have equipments for this please take pen and paper and demonstrate this example.
There is 2Vpp example 28MHz sinewave what is riding on very low frequency signal, nearly like drifting dc, say example 0.2Hz 3Vpp sine or example triangle wave (with these settings it is nice to see on display and immedatelly can understand why there is not trigger level pointer or trig line over screen..

Now connect this signal to scope, set 50ns/div and 1V/div and DC coupling. (because in this example case we want also know this level)
Now set Trigger for rising edge and coupling AC and set trig level zero (remember it is now relative level).

What you see on the scope screen. Specially look how is signal relative to trigger position.

Now change trigger coupling for DC and try trig normal and auto.

What you see now.  Again specially look how is signal relative to trigger position. And tell how it trig, is it fun.

After then you are ready, come on and tell how bad it is that trigger vertical level marker disappear when we go to trigger AC coupling.

Think, think again.

But at this tim I feel this is waste of time. Previous message you just deny nearly all and keep tightly your all opinions what are based only to nothing or  based on beliefs. Just as for noise trig and now with trigger hystreresis... perhaps next is just this trigger AC coupling.

Please keep free your opinions but with this level of knowledge do not so much claim bugs in these  things what works perfect and just right. Yes, there is also bugs but they are not at all these things.




Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on July 14, 2017, 06:32:47 am
Tiny add to previous msg.

There is Dave's old youtube what explain trigger coupling AC/DC because this very basic function confuse some peoples who have equipments but who do not know how to use these and how they work.

There is some flaws or negligence in this video but these are not important in this case and this video is good for explain this function (partially).

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/y5aAjd9YPok" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5aAjd9YPok (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5aAjd9YPok)

In this video he show Rigol and in nearly end also Keysight and then also how Keyshit have  trigger level 50% function and how it works (but Z box do not have).

Siglent have same 50% function as in Keysight (but without this enormous noisy front end).

Also you can see how also Rigol trigger level mark disappear (right,  it need disappear) just as also in Siglent but some peoples think this func is bug because it is in Siglent.  |O


Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: boggis the cat on July 14, 2017, 11:39:32 am
Lets take this case: Missing trigger level indicator when trigger coupling is AC.  |O |O
This isn't what I stated.  The level indication (the line) disappears sometimes with DC coupling set.

Other people have noted this issue.

Quote
Also it looks like you do not know how trigger coupling AC works and what it means. Please study first and after then claim bugs.
(it works perfect and also there is NOT level indicator, and there must NOT be)
No, you aren't following what I wrote correctly.

"Also, it seems odd that if you change from DC to AC coupling the trigger level is still settable, but only the numeric indication is present (and persistent, it doesn't snap back to zero)."

The numeric indication for trigger level is present, with AC coupling.  There should be neither indication, as you can't meaningfully set a trigger level.

Do you have this model 'scope?  It seems that you don't.  There seem to be some weird interactions with settings and incorrect behaviours.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Gandalf_Sr on July 14, 2017, 12:31:31 pm
Boggis, I appreciate that you're trying to find bugs and you probably have found several.

However, in the case of not displaying a line when you go to AC-coupled triggering, I am with rf-loop that this is not a bug - it should show a numeric level but no line on the screen.  Watch Dave's video above which is absolutely on point, particularly after 17:17 if you want to save time.

I'm waiting for the new firmware but meanwhile, I'm using the SDS1202X-E and it is doing just fine; I have yet to experience a bug that's stopped me doing anything I have wanted to so far.

I have one other thought/theory about the phantom blip you see in the center of the screen when nothing is connected to the input; digital cell phones pulse RF energy out (try holding one near your speakers) and, even with nothing connected, even with maybe a scope probe connected where the tip is shorted to the ground croc-clip (which forms a small loop antenna), a real signal pulse is being detected which is causing the triggering. Putting a shorted BNC connector on the input might not even make this go away as the PCB trace inside the scope between the BNC connector and the ADC front end might be enough to pick up a signal.  However, I see this as an exercise in futility if you're looking for bugs with no input connected!  My Agilent and Fluke multimeters show fluctuating voltage readings when I have nothing connected to their probes  :wtf:
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on July 14, 2017, 01:53:42 pm

Do you have this model 'scope?  It seems that you don't.  There seem to be some weird interactions with settings and incorrect behaviours.

Yes I have and not only one and test unit have been just after this model was ready for markets. How you think I can other way publish several tests and result images and define how it works and data and knowledge about it in things what are not told in specs.
Just one example, this. Not possible without scope:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=331909;image)


Also I have SDS1000X+ model, SDS2k, Several other brand scopes, including also old boat anchors. Previously lot of more but this kind of retired people do not anymore need so much.


And then this

Quote
"Also, it seems odd that if you change from DC to AC coupling the trigger level is still settable, but only the numeric indication is present ...

This is just ok how it should  work.

Then

Quote
....... (and persistent, it doesn't snap back to zero)."


this is like design compromise. One like red and other like blue...but some like hot chili.   When people push coupling at this point system do not know if he step over AC and to example HF rej. If he wANT hf Rej then it is wise to keep untouched (as DC).
Some users may need often just HF rej and some other just LF rej or AC.  So, compromise is that do not change user defined trigger level. If user want he can just push one button and there it is. It need note  that 0 is not at all mostly optimum for AC coupled trigger level setting.

Use trig coupling DC and look narrow pulses. Example 3V positive peaks and 1kHz but pulse width say example 1us. Press 50% or set 1.5V trig level. Ok nice trig and all ok but reason or other you want trig AC coupling. Nice, it stay trigged. If it change itself to zero then you need adjust it for trig again.

These kind of things need compromises. Allweays some combination  is not so nice. 

I do not want change it. Overall ok compromise. But user need study his tools. Know your equipment helps in many places and. Learning curve is ....  if you want learn instead of ranting what nearly inhibit learning.

More useful is learn how to use it and how it works. Then when meet real error/bug  then need do real documents with all nessessary and enough accurate data so that peoples in factory can repeat it. Findings what nobody can repeat / reconstruct are waste of time.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: k1ttt on July 14, 2017, 06:35:17 pm
I am trying to help a friend who has a new SHS-800 series scope, he brought it to me and we went through some of the basics in about 2 hours while I was pulling answers out of the dvd manual and knowledge of other scopes.  we both saw one thing that I could not explain and after he left I kept the pdf manual to try to explain it and still couldn't.  we had 2 probes attached to the scope, press auto and both traces would show up.  blue for channel 1 on top, red for ch2 on bottom, and overlaid on the bottom trace was in blue ch1 signal parameters like Vpp, Prd, Mean, and Freq.  These show up in the user manual Figure 2-1 on page 6 under Automatic Settings.  Our questions are:
1. besides pressing Auto can you turn on these values manually?
2. When displaying 2 channels can you get both of their parameters displayed?
3. my friend pushed some buttons while I wasn't watching and got it to display ch2, but then it went back to ch1 and we couldn't figure out what he did to get ch2 back.  how do you select which channel to display?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: pantelei4 on July 14, 2017, 07:26:23 pm
1. besides pressing Auto can you turn on these values manually?
No, only the menu, the measurement, which occupies a useful part of the screen.
Strange discreteness of automatic measurements of an oscilloscope. 220-224-228V  :o

In one claim to SHS806, I was mistaken, the delay between channels is regulated by it, and it was not set to zero.

There is also a hardware bug at the 800 series.
With DC offset, especially in the 2V/div range, the error of the position of the scan line relative to the marker is large, on all the devices that I saw, it does not fit within 3% tolerance.

Despite all the bugs, the device is very useful for me. It's a pity that Siglent will never fix them.  |O
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: exe on July 14, 2017, 10:13:05 pm
Lets take this case: Missing trigger level indicator when trigger coupling is AC.  |O |O
Also it looks like you do not know how trigger coupling AC works and what it means. Please study first and after then claim bugs.
(it works perfect and also there is NOT level indicator, and there must NOT be)

I do know what's the difference between AC/DC means. And I still prefer trigger level to be displayed at all times (it's like you can measure min/max values of waveform regardless of channel coupling) with coupling indicator on the marker itself. Just because you don't like this approach does not mean people who don't share the same views are idiots who don't know how the scope works.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: colorado.rob on July 15, 2017, 02:31:33 am
I do know what's the difference between AC/DC means. And I still prefer trigger level to be displayed at all times (it's like you can measure min/max values of waveform regardless of channel coupling) with coupling indicator on the marker itself. Just because you don't like this approach does not mean people who don't share the same views are idiots who don't know how the scope works.
:clap: Thank you.  And -- when both the channel and the trigger are AC coupled, that trigger marker *is* meaningful.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: DazA1 on July 16, 2017, 09:50:36 am
Quote
Despite all the bugs, the device is very useful for me. It's a pity that Siglent will never fix them.  |O

I couldn't agree more, sadly there seems to be little interest in fixing these bugs.

Its a shame really as it's a really useful bit of kit.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: N8AUM on July 17, 2017, 03:04:26 am
Can someone explain for dummies like myself why only the voltage level is displayed while in AC trigger mode unlike having both the voltage and the horizontal line showing up while in DC trigger coupling mode?

73  N8AUM  Vidas
 
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: sng61 on July 17, 2017, 06:17:03 am
after a week of using the oscilloscope 1202X-E has become very slow even immediately after starting. Delay greater than 1 second on simplest operations. May be something to configure or to do a memory reset and some settings...?
And why is this happening??
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rs20 on July 17, 2017, 06:25:49 am
Can someone explain for dummies like myself why only the voltage level is displayed while in AC trigger mode unlike having both the voltage and the horizontal line showing up while in DC trigger coupling mode?

73  N8AUM  Vidas

Because if you have a 1Vpp AC signal superimposed on a 5V DC level, and the oscilloscope set to AC trigger mode with the trigger level at 0.5V; the trigger circuitry will only see the 1Vpp AC signal, and will thus trigger successfully. However, drawing a line at 0.5V on the oscilloscope screen will not touch the curve anywhere. Conversely, if the trigger were set at 5.5V, it would appear to pass through the curve on the screen, but the trigger cicuitry wouldn't activate, given that it is only seeing a 1Vpp signal.

In summary, the line becomes completely meaningless; it doesn't represent anything relevant or useful anymore.

If you're still confused, recall that "AC coupling" (in the vertical/channel menu) and "AC trigger mode" (in the trigger menu) are totally different things. You'll have a hard time understanding what's going on here if you think they are the same thing.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on July 17, 2017, 06:57:53 am
Can someone explain for dummies like myself why only the voltage level is displayed while in AC trigger mode unlike having both the voltage and the horizontal line showing up while in DC trigger coupling mode?

73  N8AUM  Vidas

When trigger coupling is AC it do not care vertical DC level. Trigger level setting is relative only with higher frequency signal level. So if signal is example riding on moving DC (very low freq) signal position on the screen is movin g up and down on the screen but we want trig to this higher frequency signal what we are interest and so that it keep this relative trigger level.  Now if we show trigger position marker on the screen right side as when it is if T coupling is DC it do not mean anything exept if we then move it up and down when signal is moving up and down. With different signals this may be very confusing mess.

Here two very poor image quality GIF buth still they show idea. You look them and you can see this principle.

In both cases Signal what we want trig is 3MHz 300mVpp sine. This sine is combined with bit over 300mVpp triangle what frequency is 0.1Hz (100mHz) THis moves 3MHz sinewave signal up and down on the screen.

First GIF you can see two things. When signal fall enough down it loose trigger and after it rise to triggel level it trig.   When level change trigger position in 3MHz signal change and you can see signal shift horizontally when level continue changing.   Trig is fixed to vertical100mV level (DC) because I have set trig level 100mV just for this demonstration.

Next GIF. Only change is trigger coupling. Now it is AC and you can imagine where is trigger position when signal moves up and down. Signal keeps also horizontal position (as long as signal vertical moving is quite slow) because trigger is only relative to this 3MHz signal and it do not care this near DC component. As you can imagine if there is now trigger level marker it also need move up and down. Think if this up and down moving happen with some other frequency...

Trigger level adjusting knob. In trigger coupling DC it set trigger to 50% signal p-p.

In AC mode it set trigger level to signal average (0). If signal duty is 50% average is middle and it is triggel level 0. If signal Duty is near zero also trig position zero is too near signal bottom. My personal opinion is that it is more useful if this 50% button also works also in trigger AC coupling so that it check signal p-p and set this for trigger level so also with very low dyty signals with this button can get reliable trig what user can then change if he want.

Do not care image tresolution. Only look signal  shape and how it moves in different trigger coupling.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on July 17, 2017, 07:21:33 am
after a week of using the oscilloscope 1202X-E has become very slow even immediately after starting. Delay greater than 1 second on simplest operations. May be something to configure or to do a memory reset and some settings...?
And why is this happening??

I have used this scope after beginning of May. I have  never meet this kind of "feature".
And I have tested it lot. Drop tests on every corner exept front panel, hard break power with random freq, give other person who do not know anything about scopes to do random settings and "monkey" adjustments even these what I do not never do because tens of years knowledge and experience...may reject me to do most stupid things.  Nothing to report but just normally working scope.


But still if there is something... perhaps possible normal front panel button "default" do not default all. Least I do not have checked every single detail.

There is default and security erase function also selectable in menu.

Go to Save/Recall
select Recall
in menu, select type: Security Erase  (it erase all your saved things including what you have defined for front panel default button!! )
then press Recall

then
in menu, select type: Factory Default
press Recall

After it is finished.

Shut off scope

Then turn on.

(there is now chinese language)

Press Utility.
Press language (this read there also with englihs) and select language for you.




Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on July 17, 2017, 07:28:05 am
after a week of using the oscilloscope 1202X-E has become very slow even immediately after starting. Delay greater than 1 second on simplest operations. May be something to configure or to do a memory reset and some settings...?
And why is this happening??
Following on from rf-loop.

I don't know why this might happen but I suggest using the default button and start again from the factory settings.

In the future if you don't want to loose your setting by using factory default, you can set your own user defined default settings (Ch's on, 10:1 inputs, Trigger levels, display settings etc) from within the Utility menu.

General description of it here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-siglent-sds1000x-e-oscilloscope-based-on-xilinx-zynq-7000-soc-architecture/msg1196101/#msg1196101 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-siglent-sds1000x-e-oscilloscope-based-on-xilinx-zynq-7000-soc-architecture/msg1196101/#msg1196101)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: PA4TIM on July 17, 2017, 08:30:04 am
On the SHS1062, I think most of the strange things are not firmware bugs, could it be a wrong or not connected pin from an IC ? That also gives random faults. This week I planned to change the glass soldered fuse for a sand-filled in decent clips. If I have time I will look for floating pins.

 I decided to buy the scopemeter after I found the problem in a very difficult repair thanks to the logging function of the scope. 
The last days I'm diving in to all possibilities and functions of the scope, I always do that with new instruments. Things that happened:
- I saved two waveforms. Recalled 1 of them  and used it to play with cursors ans measurement values. The scope became very slow in response, the saved waveforms disappeared from memory and then the scope stalled.  The stalling happened when I pressed the scope button while one of the sub-menus was still visible. After rebooting it worked but waveforms are still  gone. Tried to stall it again by doing the same thing several times but no result. Restored to factory settings and everything was fine again.

- A very strange one, I was in playing around a bit in scope mode and by accident pressed a wrong key (I think the scope key) . A menu popped up I have not seen before and I can not find it again. It is only graphics, no text. F1 and F2 are pulseshapes for dutycycle measurements, F3 and F4 are the symbols for rise and fall time measurements.  No values in the menu. Measurement values appeared on the screen not in the F-menu blocks.Then it disappeared, I think I pressed F5 but I'm not sure.

- sometimes screens "merge", it looks like the old screen is not complete erased when the new one appears. Have seen it 3 times now.

- A few seconds after run/stop the trace disappeared. I can not repeat it so again I 1 time event

I'm doing this from memory, I made notes but can not find them. But I do not think it are real bugs. But it is not a good thing. Like it is running under Windows XP  >:D
Strange enough I still like the scope.  ;)

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Gandalf_Sr on July 17, 2017, 10:24:39 am
how do you select which channel to display?
This is how most multi-channel scopes work.  Press [Ch1] button and it lights up and channel 1 data/adjustments are shown/possible.  Now press [Ch2] button, channel 1 trace is still visible but Channel 2 data/adjustments are shown/possible.  To go back to channel 1 for adjustments, just press [Ch1] once.  To remove a channel from viewing, make sure that channel has control and then press the [Chx] button - each time you press it the display of that channel will appear/disappear.

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ebastler on July 17, 2017, 10:43:40 am
how do you select which channel to display?
This is how most multi-channel scopes work.  [...]

Based on the full post from k1ttt, I wonder whether he meant to ask about switching the displayed measurement values between channel 1 and 2, not the trace display itself?

If that's the question -- I do not have the scope, but the section titled "Parameter Measure" in the user manual seems to describe this. After pressing the [cursor/measure] button twice, measurement values and channels are selected using the function buttons below the screen. It's described on page 20 and onwards in the manual version I found online, https://mediacdn.eu/m/media/wysiwyg/siglent/Downloads/Manuals/SHS800_UserManual.pdf.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: k1ttt on July 17, 2017, 11:06:55 am
https://mediacdn.eu/m/media/wysiwyg/siglent/Downloads/Manuals/SHS800_UserManual.pdf.

in that manual figure 2-1 on page 6 it shows 4 values that show after you press the auto button.  if you have 2 channels displayed it still seems to show only CH-1 values, except once somehow it switched to CH-2 but we couldn't repeat that.  showing those 4 seems to be related just to the Auto function and they are not displayed like the parameter measurements which are on top of the traces.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on July 17, 2017, 11:23:45 am
I am trying to help a friend who has a new SHS-800 series scope, he brought it to me and we went through some of the basics in about 2 hours while I was pulling answers out of the dvd manual and knowledge of other scopes.  we both saw one thing that I could not explain and after he left I kept the pdf manual to try to explain it and still couldn't.  we had 2 probes attached to the scope, press auto and both traces would show up.  blue for channel 1 on top, red for ch2 on bottom, and overlaid on the bottom trace was in blue ch1 signal parameters like Vpp, Prd, Mean, and Freq.  These show up in the user manual Figure 2-1 on page 6 under Automatic Settings.  Our questions are:
SHS810 here.  ;)
Quote
1. besides pressing Auto can you turn on these values manually?
Not apparently.  :(
Quote
2. When displaying 2 channels can you get both of their parameters displayed?
No, only one or the other.
Quote
3. my friend pushed some buttons while I wasn't watching and got it to display ch2, but then it went back to ch1 and we couldn't figure out what he did to get ch2 back.  how do you select which channel to display?
Use the Cursor/Measure button and toggle through the options available.
Mode = Manual (Use F1), then Ch selection is visible and you select the type and channel and/or Math functions.
When all of the five boxes above the Function buttons are showing measurements (toggle the Cursor/Measure button) pushing any of the function buttons will give options of Voltage, Time, Delay, All Measure and Return (Exit)
Each of Voltage, Time and Delay are user definable for the source (ch) and the measurement sub type (p-p, mean, Vrms etc)

Spend some time bashing around in Measurements to really get a handle on it.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Arjan on July 17, 2017, 02:00:13 pm
Got my 1202X-E last Friday and so far quite happy with it. It did freeze once when I enabled FFT but I've been unable to reproduce that.

Anyway, my rather silly question is if there is any way to make scope music (YouScope etc) display nicely on this? In regular mode the waveforms are updating plenty fast but as soon as I switch to XY mode it seems to update only twice a second.

Now obviously displaying scope music nicely is not a requirement but I do have a use for an XY display that updates properly at audio frequencies (yes I do have software for that as well but...), so are there any settings that will make this work better? Or would improving this require a firmware update?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: boggis the cat on July 17, 2017, 02:04:45 pm
Boggis, I appreciate that you're trying to find bugs and you probably have found several.
Confirmed several, found the video line bug.  (Difficult to check without a calibration source.)

Quote
However, in the case of not displaying a line when you go to AC-coupled triggering, I am with rf-loop that this is not a bug - it should show a numeric level but no line on the screen.  Watch Dave's video above which is absolutely on point, particularly after 17:17 if you want to save time.
The way I have seen other 'scopes handle this is to show the level position as you adjust it.  (I don't see why you'd want to set it, with AC coupling, really.)  We had a Tektronix in today (DPO 2024B) so I had a quick look at this and it does allow trigger adjustment when AC coupled, and also indicates the level on the display.

I think that Siglent should stick to displaying a trigger level position on the main display if you are able to adjust it.  If you know of other 'scopes that don't indicate the level, but still allow you to set it (using the numeric indication only), then perhaps this is a convention -- but it just seems broken to me.

Quote
I'm waiting for the new firmware but meanwhile, I'm using the SDS1202X-E and it is doing just fine; I have yet to experience a bug that's stopped me doing anything I have wanted to so far.
Some people have obviously been experiencing more problems than others.  I haven't had to use the 'scope on anything yet and have simply been familiarising with it.  Nothing I have planned should present a problem for it.

This isn't a high-priced instrument, so you can't expect it to be as polished as similar models costing multiples of what this one does.

Quote
I have one other thought/theory about the phantom blip you see in the center of the screen when nothing is connected to the input; digital cell phones pulse RF energy out (try holding one near your speakers) and, even with nothing connected, even with maybe a scope probe connected where the tip is shorted to the ground croc-clip (which forms a small loop antenna), a real signal pulse is being detected which is causing the triggering. Putting a shorted BNC connector on the input might not even make this go away as the PCB trace inside the scope between the BNC connector and the ADC front end might be enough to pick up a signal.  However, I see this as an exercise in futility if you're looking for bugs with no input connected!  My Agilent and Fluke multimeters show fluctuating voltage readings when I have nothing connected to their probes  :wtf:
No, that isn't the case, and isn't what I am concerned about (a noise source isn't a repetitive signal, so I think I see why you're thinking about interference from a signal source).

It seems that I am not getting across my main points about this behaviour.  There is the change in behaviour, suggesting some parameters change from default, and there is the rather odd signal positioning.  Only Siglent know why the behaviour shifts (some sort of retriggering with new parameters would be my guess) -- and it is probably not going to be an issue for real use, particularly if you do set the trigger.  (Poor coding is still something worth fixing.)

The signal issue seems to be an artefact of how the 'scope samples.  If you look at the 'dot' display then you can see that the samples are not uniformly distributed, and you end up with a division at the centre (trigger location) where the triggered samples are stacked together.  My present assumption is that this is just an aliasing effect, but I do wonder if this would present problems for real signals.  (The Tektronix DPO 2024B didn't behave like this.  There is no 'dot' mode available, though, and the behaviour is generally different.  Apples and oranges, perhaps.)

I have a lot of experience working on 'scopes for verification of specs, but that is quite different from poking about in odd corners and uncovering behaviour that may not be documented.  For many things, unless something is documented you can't really tell if it is a bug, or intentional behaviour.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: boggis the cat on July 17, 2017, 02:09:42 pm
In regular mode the waveforms are updating plenty fast but as soon as I switch to XY mode it seems to update only twice a second.
XY mode is deathly slow, for some reason.

I have no idea why, as this 'scope has plenty of processing power.  ???

Hopefully they will sort it out.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Arjan on July 17, 2017, 02:19:20 pm
XY mode is deathly slow, for some reason.

I have no idea why, as this 'scope has plenty of processing power.  ???

Hopefully they will sort it out.

Thanks for confirming. Left feedback at siglent.com to ask for a firmware update to fix this. The XY mode is really quite useless to me this way.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rs20 on July 17, 2017, 02:29:38 pm
I do know what's the difference between AC/DC means. And I still prefer trigger level to be displayed at all times (it's like you can measure min/max values of waveform regardless of channel coupling) with coupling indicator on the marker itself. Just because you don't like this approach does not mean people who don't share the same views are idiots who don't know how the scope works.

You can still just read off the trigger value numbers and compare/subtract them if you really want; or use AC channel coupling to see the actual signal and measure the min/max values directly. The hypocrisy of your statement is insane; just because you don't like this approach does not mean people who don't share the same views are idiots who don't know how the scope works.

And -- when both the channel and the trigger are AC coupled, that trigger marker *is* meaningful.

Use AC coupling on the channel and DC coupling on the trigger (which sees the signal after the AC coupling for the channel, and thus will still effectively be AC coupled), and you will get your wish. In any case, using AC coupling on both will result in the rolloff being applied twice and potentially subtly different results accordingly, and so should probably be avoided in general.

As a sidenote, I can't think of the last time I used AC trigger coupling on my scope. I don't seem to ever encounter a situation where I want to keep the DC/LF component on the waveform yet trigger on the HF signal; I seem to always be perfectly happy just AC-coupling the channel, and I get to keep my nice trigger line on the screen at all times too. I wonder if some people (to be clear, not specifically suggesting present company) leap too quickly to using the AC trigger mode, perhaps without considering the channel AC coupling mode?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Arjan on July 17, 2017, 03:07:54 pm
On the SDS 1202X-E if you do an FFT with the Center frequency set to 0.0000Hz, it actually displays 0.0Hz in the center of the display, wasting about halve the display width since there is no content below 0Hz.

It would seem to make much more sense to auto-size this to use the full display width, ie. with 0Hz being all the way to the left.

Am I missing something here? How does this work on other scopes?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: sng61 on July 17, 2017, 04:48:19 pm
In continuation of the topic of some slowing down of reaction 1202x-e:
1. I noticed that some signs of "retardation" arise after I write a few long fragments into memory - and I scan them. Maybe they are not completely unloaded from memory - I do not know. But after several such operations, "thoughtfulness" appears already simply when viewing the sine of 50 Hz.
2. Resetting to the default settings of course helped restore the reaction speed. But the fact is that I did not install any "difficult" settings before that, since I work with the most standard functions and settings.
3. When will the new firmware be released?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Tom45 on July 18, 2017, 03:34:06 pm
As a sidenote, I can't think of the last time I used AC trigger coupling on my scope. I don't seem to ever encounter a situation where I want to keep the DC/LF component on the waveform yet trigger on the HF signal; I seem to always be perfectly happy just AC-coupling the channel, and I get to keep my nice trigger line on the screen at all times too. I wonder if some people (to be clear, not specifically suggesting present company) leap too quickly to using the AC trigger mode, perhaps without considering the channel AC coupling mode?

This guy seems to think AC trigger coupling is a good thing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5aAjd9YPok (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5aAjd9YPok)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on July 18, 2017, 07:40:11 pm
On the SDS 1202X-E if you do an FFT with the Center frequency set to 0.0000Hz, it actually displays 0.0Hz in the center of the display, wasting about halve the display width since there is no content below 0Hz.

It would seem to make much more sense to auto-size this to use the full display width, ie. with 0Hz being all the way to the left.

Am I missing something here? How does this work on other scopes?
Yes, but where would you stop the center frequency setting ? 10, 50 100, 1000 Hz ?
It is not an issue for normal FFT usage.
In continuation of the topic of some slowing down of reaction 1202x-e:
1. I noticed that some signs of "retardation" arise after I write a few long fragments into memory - and I scan them. Maybe they are not completely unloaded from memory - I do not know. But after several such operations, "thoughtfulness" appears already simply when viewing the sine of 50 Hz.
2. Resetting to the default settings of course helped restore the reaction speed. But the fact is that I did not install any "difficult" settings before that, since I work with the most standard functions and settings.
3. When will the new firmware be released?
The new firmware has resolved most issues that I'm aware of.
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/SDS1000X-E_5.1.3.13.zip (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/SDS1000X-E_5.1.3.13.zip)

Please report any further issues seen.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Arjan on July 18, 2017, 08:47:05 pm
On the SDS 1202X-E if you do an FFT with the Center frequency set to 0.0000Hz, it actually displays 0.0Hz in the center of the display, wasting about halve the display width since there is no content below 0Hz.

It would seem to make much more sense to auto-size this to use the full display width, ie. with 0Hz being all the way to the left.

Am I missing something here? How does this work on other scopes?
Yes, but where would you stop the center frequency setting ? 10, 50 100, 1000 Hz ?

You can easily calculate the effective range based on the CenterFrequency and HzPerDiv. For instance, assuming 10 divisisions, 100Hz CenterFrequency and 50HzPerDiv

LeftMostFrequency=max(0, 100-5*50)= 0
RghtMostFrequency=LeftMostFreq+10*50

so in general

LeftMostFrequency=max(0, CenterFrequency-(TotalDivisions/2)*HzPerDivision)
RightMostFrequency=LeftMostFreq+TotalDivisions*HzPerDivision

I think that formula works for all cases but even if it doesn't I'm positive that you can always calculate it in a fashion similar to this.

It is not an issue for normal FFT usage.

It's sub-optimal use of the available display real-estate. For all cases where CenterFrequency-(TotalDivisions/2)*HzPerDivvision>0 the display use is optimal. It would be a shame not tofix it, seems like it would require just a few lines of code.

The new firmware has resolved most issues that I'm aware of.
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/SDS1000X-E_5.1.3.13.zip (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/SDS1000X-E_5.1.3.13.zip)

When was that released? I cheked very recently, but not on the siglentamerica.com domain.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on July 18, 2017, 08:55:27 pm
When was that released? I cheked very recently, but not on the siglentamerica.com domain.
~12 hrs ago.
It's on all the official Siglent webpages.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: colorado.rob on July 19, 2017, 04:00:21 am
Is there any planned SDS2000X firmware update in the works?

The scope doesn't have any major issues that I have run into that I cannot work around, but there are a few niggles here and there.  The one with stop mode that I reported here.  There are a few buttons that are still present in the UI but non-functional in certain modes.  Those should be greyed out and not selectable to let the user know they are not valid for the current mode.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: sng61 on July 19, 2017, 04:47:28 am
Quote
The new firmware has resolved most issues that I'm aware of.
...
Please report any further issues seen.
Thanks.
I put this on the firmware SDS1000X-E_5.1.3.13. Those questions that I had, it did not solve - but added a new very unpleasant bug. Now, when I set up the closed input (that is, I only need the variable component, and the constant is cut off) - I have an offset, as if it's an open input. Very uncomfortable. Very inconvenient, and it's very unclear why this is done.

Now the question arises where the variants of the old firmwares lie, to go to the one that I had before, or to another. Because this glitch with an open and closed entrance is just really distressing.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on July 19, 2017, 06:04:07 am
I suspect there is now some "trap" outside of oscilloscope.


Please, can you do this next steps first.

Set exactly same signal to input what was in previous images.

I have tested inputs, with various signals, using different signal generators and signals including also Tektronix CG5011 scope calibrator and I can not see any weird things like you show. Not with previous FW and not with this new.

Set Scope speed 100us/div  (1GSa/s 1.4M)
Acquisition Normal
Set display persistence  5 seconds
Display mode Vectors and ColorGrade ON ( for better visibility)
Set input coupling DC and offset 0
Set Trigger coupling AC and level 0

Let scope run least over 5s without touching anything but then print button
Take screen image what ever it show  to USB stick  using print button when scope is RUN (do NOT stop scope)

Let scope run and keep all, including signal, exactly same, only change input coupling to AC and do not touch anything else and let scope run without touchibg anything least over 5s and then
Take screen image what ever it show  to USB stick  using print button when scope is RUN (do NOT stop scope)


Take all off from input connectors, everything. Keep Other settings  same.

Also print image from running scope.

Show these three images.


Next questions. What is your signal parameters, as exactly as possible.

Do you have good signal generator available for some next tests and what signal quality is enough well known and also coax cable for connect it to scope. But first I hope to see these two images before go forward..


Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on July 19, 2017, 07:24:00 am
Is there any planned SDS2000X firmware update in the works?
There will be but as the last was back in May it might be a little way off yet.
I found an unusual bug too a month or two back when attempting a screen capture, reported and confirmed.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on July 19, 2017, 07:25:14 am
I suspect there is now some "trap" outside of oscilloscope.


Please, can you do this next steps first.

Set exactly same signal to input what was in previous images.

I have tested inputs, with various signals, using different signal generators and signals including also Tektronix CG5011 scope calibrator and I can not see any weird things like you show. Not with previous FW and not with this new.

Set Scope speed 100us/div  (1GSa/s 1.4M)
Acquisition Normal
Set display persistence  5 seconds
Display mode Vectors and ColorGrade ON ( for better visibility)
Set input coupling DC and offset 0
Set Trigger coupling AC and level 0

Let scope run least over 5s without touching anything but then print button
Take screen image what ever it show  to USB stick  using print button when scope is RUN (do NOT stop scope)

Let scope run and keep all, including signal, exactly same, only change input coupling to AC and do not touch anything else and let scope run without touchibg anything least over 5s and then
Take screen image what ever it show  to USB stick  using print button when scope is RUN (do NOT stop scope)


Show these images.


Next questions. What is your signal parameters, as exactly as possible.

Do you have good signal generator available for some next tests and what signal quality is enough well known and also coax cable for connect it to scope. But first I hope to see these two images before go forward..
Could it be sng61 has not run the Auto Cal as instructed after installing the FW update ?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on July 19, 2017, 08:01:34 am
This is my "failed" SDS1202X-E.  With new FW  5.1.3.13
As  most know, 13 is bad number... haha

(this have nothing to do with bugs or newest FW, this is FAKE for demonstration what also can happen if user do it accidentally or for some reason).

But, true signal is really symmetric sinewave offset 0V, 50Hz and on off (pulse) modulated with 2.7Hz. Same signal to both channels.
If all is ok, then it must display just as CH2 is. But CH1 have now around 100V offset error as can see in image. What hell happend here..   :wtf: :bullshit:

But, for some fun, I will not yet tell how I did it. And yes, CH1 offset is really out of order now and nothing adjusted inside scope. If I turn it on or off or default etc, it stay in this error situation.

 This what you see in MY image is NOT error in scope hardware or software. I just my self  "break" my scope.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=333265;image)

editor addendum: Now I can tell that before this "test" I damaged the (self)calibration. For avoid any useless hassle  with this, procedure censored.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on July 19, 2017, 08:35:51 am
Now it is "repaired". Need one cup of coffee and one wooden (bamboo) chopstic.
 :-/O



(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=333271;image)

after accidentally or for purpose disturbed selfcal,  now it is done ok
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ebastler on July 19, 2017, 09:04:04 am
Now it is "repaired". Need one cup of coffee and one wooden (bamboo) chopstic.
 :-/O

You disturbed self cal by pouring coffee over the scope?! ::)
And I don't want to think about where you might have poked the chopstick...  ;)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on July 19, 2017, 10:00:22 am
Now it is "repaired". Need one cup of coffee and one wooden (bamboo) chopstic.
 :-/O

You disturbed self cal by pouring coffee over the scope?! ::)
And I don't want to think about where you might have poked the chopstick...  ;)

Coffee and chopstic- Short snack and coffee break when waiting scope "reapair service"
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: boggis the cat on July 19, 2017, 11:05:41 am
This guy seems to think AC trigger coupling is a good thing:
Yes, that is a good, clear, explanation of why to use it.   :-+

The Tektronix 'scope I checked does display the level marker on the display when using AC trigger coupling (as well as a numeric indication, and the set level is persistent), so there doesn't seem to be a convention around whether to include the marker or not.  If the user is adjusting something then, in my view, you should indicate the adjustment.  This prevents the confusion over why the numeric level is adjusted but no level marker is present.

So Siglent's way of implementing this is as per Rigol (or vice versa), and is a presentation choice rather than being a "broken" functionality as I had thought.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: sng61 on July 19, 2017, 04:12:36 pm
Quote
Could it be sng61 has not run the Auto Cal as instructed after installing the FW update ?
Thank you!))
The offset issue is solved after calibration. I did not do it, because in other oscilloscopes after changing firmware the baseline was never shifted.

I would like to see the figures of measurements of a more larger size in the next version of the firmware. Like "Mean[1] = 100v". If there is not enough space on the screen to display all the words and numbers - then let only the numbers be larger.

And instead of (for example) Mean[1]=*** on the screen will be simple Mean[1]=. If it is impossible to calculate a certain value, then you do not need to show asterisks. The screen is easier to read if there are no unnecessary uninformative symbols on it. IMHO )
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: colorado.rob on July 20, 2017, 03:43:10 am
There's a later version of the Programming Guide here:
http://siglentamerica.com/support_download_28 (http://siglentamerica.com/support_download_28)

I don't know (haven't checked) if there's more info in it to help you solve your issues.

That is the same version I have been using.

For a stunning example of what Siglent considers adequate documentation of its SCPI commands, here is an excerpt from the page for accessing the frame history.

(http://imgur.com/rDPt2WHl.png)

That's it.  The rest of the page is blank.

Look at the response format.   :wtf:  That's all you have to say about the response format??? W....T....F.... :palm:

And now tell me that this is the documentation that their own developers used to write "EasyScopeX", which uses SCPI  to communicate to the device. |O

This is so completely unacceptable.

:rant:
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rs20 on July 20, 2017, 06:25:06 am
This guy seems to think AC trigger coupling is a good thing:

That video is deceptive in a couple of senses. He briefly mentions the fact that digital oscilloscopes perform their triggering on the digital datastream, but completely fails to point out that that means that the triggering circuitry can only see the AC-coupled signal if AC channel coupling is selected. That means that if you have AC channel coupling selected, it is bad to also select AC trigger coupling because it has virtually no effect; the input signal to the triggering "circuitry"/VHDL code is already AC triggered at that point.

Secondly, given the fact the digital (not to mention many analog) scopes default to an auto trigger that will show you the range of the signal while it is untriggered instead of displaying a dead blank screen, there's a bunch of new, mostly-digital-specific different options available for dealing with signals with an unknown DC bias:
- 50% trigger button
- AC channel coupling (which, uniquely on a digital oscilloscope, provides all the benefits of AC trigger coupling and more)
- Or crikey, since the trigger level is visible as a line on the screen, is it really that bad to just take the fraction of a signal to twist the knob the right way? I dunno, after taking all the time to probe the circuit, set the vertical gains and offsets, timebase etc, it's just never bothered me.

And how often is the average designer encountering systems with signals at 4 different voltage offsets? Not me, being the digital types most of the signals I've looked at over the past year have been 3V3 and 5V digital stuff, and not a lot of other people I suspect. It's good to be aware of the option, but I totally fail to be convinced that AC triggering is genuinely frequently useful to the average designer doing typical stuff. And it's really important to point out that AC channel coupling provides a lot of these features in digital scopes, where AC trigger coupling used to be required. And it's harder to wade through the menus on the digital scope to find the trigger coupling settings, so it's actually quite a good thing that this is the case. I will cut myself off here, but I think this video would look very different if it were done by someone born and raised with modern digital scopes, rather than insisting to a fault that analog scopes are the gold standard of ideal behaviour.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: boggis the cat on July 20, 2017, 10:19:46 am
And how often is the average designer encountering systems with signals at 4 different voltage offsets? Not me, being the digital types most of the signals I've looked at over the past year have been 3V3 and 5V digital stuff, and not a lot of other people I suspect.
Perhaps an example would be if you were looking at some AC noise issues, and were comparing points with different DC voltage supplies.  Or just wanting to swap between an AC signal and a DC one without having to change the triggering.  (Power supplies and voltage conversion circuitry?)

It is possible that options that you never use may be extremely useful for someone with a different application.  Just because I don't see a need for a feature I don't assume that it must be useless.

Quote
I will cut myself off here, but I think this video would look very different if it were done by someone born and raised with modern digital scopes, rather than insisting to a fault that analog scopes are the gold standard of ideal behaviour.
They largely are, though, if you want the best representation of the signal.

Digitising signals is, of course, extremely useful; and digital 'scopes allow for very complex processing of that digitised data that isn't feasible for an analogue signal.  Combining both would be the ideal.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rs20 on July 20, 2017, 02:47:19 pm
Quote
I will cut myself off here, but I think this video would look very different if it were done by someone born and raised with modern digital scopes, rather than insisting to a fault that analog scopes are the gold standard of ideal behaviour.
They largely are, though, if you want the best representation of the signal.

And how does insisting that the trigger signal is drawn off before the channel coupling, purely based on the arbitrary imposition that that's how analog scopes work, help in providing the "best representation of the signal"? I'd see where you were coming from if we were talking about the picture on the screen, but we're talking about the triggering circuit diagram here.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: N8AUM on July 20, 2017, 08:42:39 pm
My first 1202X-E that was purchased late in May would "freeze/lock up" randomly so I had it replaced within 30 days. My replacement "seemed" to be ok until today when it decided to lock up, even power switch wouldn't do anything. I just saw the new firmware and upgraded to the latest. I sure hope they fixed the random lock up problem!

73 N8AUM  Vidas
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: boggis the cat on July 21, 2017, 03:17:52 am
And how does insisting that the trigger signal is drawn off before the channel coupling, purely based on the arbitrary imposition that that's how analog scopes work, help in providing the "best representation of the signal"? I'd see where you were coming from if we were talking about the picture on the screen, but we're talking about the triggering circuit diagram here.
So far as I understood it, the triggering in a digital 'scope was just based on processing the data stream coming from the ADCs.  This would mean that there is no trigger path available from before the channel coupling.

Checking this: my understanding wasn't correct.  The triggering can still be performed in analogue terms, by taking the signal after the initial input gain (analogue).  So the triggering selected may involve the sampled data, or it may not.

Presumably this is required if you want DC triggering on an AC coupled waveform.

If this wasn't done, then you would have to base the triggering on the sample data and so would not be able to implement a DC trigger level on AC coupled data (as you wouldn't know what the DC offset of the signal was).  Unless there is some other process here that I am unaware of.  ???

(More stuff to figure out for a particular 'scope, I think.  Certainly the way that trigger levels are reported back to the user varies, with Siglent not following the same convention that Tektronix does -- misleading me into assuming that this difference was a 'bug'.)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rs20 on July 21, 2017, 04:21:44 am
Checking this: my understanding wasn't correct.  The triggering can still be performed in analogue terms, by taking the signal after the initial input gain (analogue).  So the triggering selected may involve the sampled data, or it may not.

Presumably this is required if you want DC triggering on an AC coupled waveform.

If this wasn't done, then you would have to base the triggering on the sample data and so would not be able to implement a DC trigger level on AC coupled data (as you wouldn't know what the DC offset of the signal was).  Unless there is some other process here that I am unaware of.  ???

You correctly observe the difficulty, but I claim you are making an unwarranted assumption that digital scope manufacturers bother to implement one of the fixes you suggest. For example, if you take a Rigol scope, set channel coupling to AC, and trigger coupling to "DC", the trigger circuitry operates in an effectively AC mode, because it operates on the digital data, for exactly the reasons you outline. Where I start to disagree with seemingly everyone is how important this specific AC-channel-coupling+true-DC-trigger-coupling combination of settings is. I don't miss it at all, and I rather like the fact that setting my channel to AC coupling automatically brings the trigger along with it. Like I've said before, it might make more sense to people if the DC triggering option was renamed "What you see on the screen triggering".

It is possible that other scopes or brands of digital scopes have different architectures, but as you suggest, those architectures would require some way of measuring the DC offset (which is complicated by the fact that AC coupling also rejects very low AC frequencies), or splitting off an analogue signal pre-AC-coupling and routing it to a dedicated ADC somewhere (a single comparator is not enough for fancy features like runt pulse triggering). Given that these solutions are expensive, difficult to maintain good signal integrity with (especially channel crosstalk, how are you going to route 4 analogue channels to a 5-way trigger demux cleanly), and given that the AC-channel-coupling+true-DC-trigger-coupling "feature" is so difficult to justify the use of, and anyone wanting AC-coupling+AC-trigger-coupling would be newly forced to actually go into the trigger menu and manually keep trigger and channel coupling settings in sync (don't forget that digital scopes don't have these things as easy-to-find physical switches on the front panel), I am glad that oscilloscope manufacturers don't bother and just choose to cleanly neglect the AC-channel-coupling+true-DC-trigger-coupling "feature".

However, it's possible that I've also missed a more elegant way of achieving this feature, and maybe it's more common among digital scopes than I thought. Is anyone aware of a digital scope that implements AC-channel-coupling+true-DC-trigger-coupling?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: N8AUM on July 21, 2017, 04:40:35 am
So after installing latest firmware this POS (1202X-E) still locks up!!!  :wtf:

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on July 21, 2017, 04:46:12 am
So after installing latest firmware this POS (1202X-E) still locks up!!!  :wtf:
Then we need to know more.

Did you perform the Self Cal after FW installation?
Under what usage and settings does it lock ?

Please find a method to repeatedly reproduce the lockup so it can be solved ASAP.

Edit
BTW, please check the System info to confirm the new FW has installed and is showing 5.1.3.13
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on July 21, 2017, 05:15:06 am

So far as I understood it, the triggering in a digital 'scope was just based on processing the data stream coming from the ADCs.  This would mean that there is no trigger path available from before the channel coupling.

Checking this: my understanding wasn't correct.  The triggering can still be performed in analogue terms, by taking the signal after the initial input gain (analogue).  So the triggering selected may involve the sampled data, or it may not.

Presumably this is required if you want DC triggering on an AC coupled waveform.

If this wasn't done, then you would have to base the triggering on the sample data and so would not be able to implement a DC trigger level on AC coupled data (as you wouldn't know what the DC offset of the signal was).  Unless there is some other process here that I am unaware of.  ???

(More stuff to figure out for a particular 'scope, I think.  Certainly the way that trigger levels are reported back to the user varies, with Siglent not following the same convention that Tektronix does -- misleading me into assuming that this difference was a 'bug'.)

As you know but some peoples perhaps still do not know.

SDS1000X-E series (in outside China  markets model SDS1202X-E) main channels trigger system is fully digital from ADC data stream as is example in R&S modern real time scopes.
In most older digital oscilloscopes there is analog side pathway after final amplifier before ADC for trigger circuits including trigger comparators.

(http://www.siglent.fi/pic/SDS1000X-E/Keysight-analog-trig.jpg)
Conventional analog trigger system in some digital oscilloscopes.
In some cases traditional principle is possible to develop also very extremely good as example in some special Teledyne LeCroy models with clever trigger system. 
Most simple analog pathway trigger system we can find in some older and/or bottom level digital oscilloscopes like example in Agilent, Tektronix older designs and/or bottom level models, Rigol 1000E, Siglent 1000CNL/CML/DL, Hantek.
 


(http://www.siglent.fi/pic/SDS1000X-E/Siglent-dig-trig.jpg)

Siglent SDS1000X-E series RTO full digitall side trigger. Sidenote: Because there is one ADC chip internally interleaved for 1GSa/s for one channel mode  it can not use for trig from unused main channel without reducing samplerate so there is not this function implemented.
Ext Trig do not have digital trigger system, it use conventional analog pathway with ltrigger comparator circuit. ExtTrig trigger have limited trigger functions and trigger timing quality overall is not at all in same level as trigger from main channel.

Trigger coupling AC (DC Block)  5.8Hz *
Trigger coupling LF reject (Also DC bloc and reduce < 2.08MHz * )
Trigger coupling HF reject (block or reduce > 1.27MHz * ) (also narrow trig hysteresis)
Trigger Noise reject  off:  normal trig hysteresis, on: wide trig hysteresis. 
* limits from user manual version UM0101X-E02B


Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on July 21, 2017, 05:42:37 am
So after installing latest firmware this POS (1202X-E) still locks up!!!  :wtf:

Please try write down as detailed description as possible about how to get it locked/crashed.  So detailed that also we and or least Siglent can repeat it.
After I have updated to latest FW  I have made some semirandom "monkey tests" and will also continue these randomly and not yet meet any total crash.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: boggis the cat on July 21, 2017, 02:20:25 pm
Siglent SDS1000X-E series RTO full digitall side trigger. Sidenote: Because there is one ADC chip internally interleaved for 1GSa/s for one channel mode  it can not use for trig from unused main channel without reducing samplerate so there is not this function implemented.
Ext Trig do not have digital trigger system, it use conventional analog pathway with ltrigger comparator circuit. ExtTrig trigger have limited trigger functions and trigger timing quality overall is not at all in same level as trigger from main channel.

Trigger coupling AC (DC Block)  5.8Hz *
Trigger coupling LF reject (Also DC bloc and reduce < 2.08MHz * )
Trigger coupling HF reject (block or reduce > 1.27MHz * ) (also narrow trig hysteresis)
Trigger Noise reject  off:  normal trig hysteresis, on: wide trig hysteresis. 
* limits from user manual version UM0101X-E02B
The most complete specifications available seem to be from the data sheet (latest version):


Coupling Frequency Response (CH1 ? CH2)

DC: Passes all components of the signal
AC: Blocks DC components and attenuates signals below 8 Hz
LFRJ: Blocks the DC component and attenuates the low-frequency components below 2 MHz
HFRJ: Attenuates the high-frequency components above 1.2 MHz

Coupling Frequency Response (EXT)

DC: Passes all components of the signal
AC: Blocks DC components and attenuates signals below 30 Hz
LFRJ: Blocks the DC component and attenuates the low-frequency components below 10 KHz
HFRJ: Attenuates the high-frequency components above 500 KHz



So definitely different specifications for the different trigger paths, but I'm not certain how the trigger works correctly if it has to use the post-ADC data.  Assuming that the AC coupling on the vertical channels takes out the DC component before the trigger system can work with the data (as is implied by the block diagram), there would be no way to set a DC trigger level correctly.

For example, if you had a 6 Vpp sine signal riding on a +3 Vdc offset:

It will be interesting to check this behaviour.  If the block diagrams are correct, you would expect different 'scopes triggering implemented differently to produce different results.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on July 21, 2017, 11:32:23 pm


So definitely different specifications for the different trigger paths, but I'm not certain how the trigger works correctly if it has to use the post-ADC data.  Assuming that the AC coupling on the vertical channels takes out the DC component before the trigger system can work with the data (as is implied by the block diagram), there would be no way to set a DC trigger level correctly.

For example, if you had a 6 Vpp sine signal riding on a +3 Vdc offset:
  • setting DC coupling on the vertical channel passes this to the ADC, then you can set a DC coupled trigger level at +6 V to trigger in the centre of the trace
  • setting AC coupling on the vertical channel strips the +3 Vdc offset out before the ADC, so where does the DC coupled trigger 'zero' position start -- presumably ground in an Earth grounded 'scope  ???

It will be interesting to check this behaviour.  If the block diagrams are correct, ....

Block diagram is correct for CH1 and CH2.  How many times it need repeat: SDS1202X-E, as also SDS1000X/X+  and as also SDS2000X have full pure digital trigger system so that for trigger there is used only and alone data after ADC. Period. This is not quessing. I KNOW it, exactly. Period.
All these scopes have also External Trig, including also SDS2000X 4 channel models. All these Ext Trig are conventional analog - trigger comparator circuit.

Main channels AC coupling is made using series capasitor soon after channel input connector for total DC block. After then there is nothing what know DC level before this DC block. Not in trigger system and not in main signal system. So it is designed and so it is done.

If just use example.
6Vpp pure sine 1kHz  + 3VDC  and input coupling AC.  DC is blocked and AC part of signal (note freq response)  is symmetric between +3V and -3V peak to peak. Trigger setting: Coupling DC and  Trig level: 0V. Rising edge.
Trigger point is exactly where signal goes upside crossing vertical zero line. Just as expected and also what is exactly right. It is right because user select that scope hard block DC bias (3Vdc --||--  0V). Trig is now DC coupled to this signal what it is there after DC block and digitized. Trigger do not need know there is DC blocked. Just as it also do not know if DC is blocked externally.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: colorado.rob on July 22, 2017, 03:23:15 am
I have an SDS2000X.  Is there a quick way to zoom into a DC offset signal with the channel DC coupled?

I have a 3.3V power rail that looks a little noisy that I need to inspect.  When I change the V/Div, the DC offset changes.  And once you are in 10mV/Div, even the course adjust is much to fine and takes forever to adjust. The "Auto Setup" button gets close, but it takes a long time to operate and always changes my V/Div. 

I'd rather the offset stay fixed as I change V/Div.  Instead I've resorted to writing SCPI "Zoom In" and "Zoom Out" commands that does this for me and binding them to hotkeys.  This really seems like something the scope should do for me.

Is there a reason the V/Offset has to scale with V/Div in a DSO?  Why does pushing the "Position" button change to 0V instead of Vmean?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on July 22, 2017, 04:37:02 am
I have an SDS2000X.  Is there a quick way to zoom into a DC offset signal with the channel DC coupled?

I have a 3.3V power rail that looks a little noisy that I need to inspect.  When I change the V/Div, the DC offset changes.  And once you are in 10mV/Div, even the course adjust is much to fine and takes forever to adjust. The "Auto Setup" button gets close, but it takes a long time to operate and always changes my V/Div. 

I'd rather the offset stay fixed as I change V/Div.  Instead I've resorted to writing SCPI "Zoom In" and "Zoom Out" commands that does this for me and binding them to hotkeys.  This really seems like something the scope should do for me.

Is there a reason the V/Offset has to scale with V/Div in a DSO?  Why does pushing the "Position" button change to 0V instead of Vmean?
This use is the perfect need for use of AC input coupling.

There are limitations on the offset available.
From the datasheet (1x probe)
1mV/div ~ 100mV/div: ±1V
102mV/div ~ 1V/div: ±10V
1.02V/div ~ 10V/div: ±100V


Sometimes for closer inspection the supplied 10x probes can be limiting.
Position control push places the 0V reference point on the center graticule, it has no other function.



Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: boggis the cat on July 22, 2017, 07:36:52 am
If just use example.
6Vpp pure sine 1kHz  + 3VDC  and input coupling AC.  DC is blocked and AC part of signal (note freq response)  is symmetric between +3V and -3V peak to peak. Trigger setting: Coupling DC and  Trig level: 0V. Rising edge.
Trigger point is exactly where signal goes upside crossing vertical zero line. Just as expected and also what is exactly right. It is right because user select that scope hard block DC bias (3Vdc --||--  0V). Trig is now DC coupled to this signal what it is there after DC block and digitized. Trigger do not need know there is DC blocked. Just as it also do not know if DC is blocked externally.
Then there is no difference between AC coupled and DC coupled triggering if the channel is AC coupled.  (Which explains the choice about presentation of the trigger level to the user.)

I have read through the user manual and this behaviour isn't explained.  Trigger coupling is on page 53 of the user manual (page 71 of the PDF).

It is useful to know exactly what the interactions between the different coupling options produce, so this could be addressed in some examples.  (The manual does have significant space devoted to explanation of the serial decoding functions, including trigger interaction, so this isn't an issue of lack of documentation generally.)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on July 22, 2017, 07:59:08 am
If just use example.
6Vpp pure sine 1kHz  + 3VDC  and input coupling AC.  DC is blocked and AC part of signal (note freq response)  is symmetric between +3V and -3V peak to peak. Trigger setting: Coupling DC and  Trig level: 0V. Rising edge.
Trigger point is exactly where signal goes upside crossing vertical zero line. Just as expected and also what is exactly right. It is right because user select that scope hard block DC bias (3Vdc --||--  0V). Trig is now DC coupled to this signal what it is there after DC block and digitized. Trigger do not need know there is DC blocked. Just as it also do not know if DC is blocked externally.
Then there is no difference between AC coupled and DC coupled triggering if the channel is AC coupled.  (Which explains the choice about presentation of the trigger level to the user.)

I have read through the user manual and this behaviour isn't explained.  Trigger coupling is on page 53 of the user manual (page 71 of the PDF).

It is useful to know exactly what the interactions between the different coupling options produce, so this could be addressed in some examples.  (The manual does have significant space devoted to explanation of the serial decoding functions, including trigger interaction, so this isn't an issue of lack of documentation generally.)
There's a new version for the SDS1202X-E that was released a few days ago:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/UserManual/SDS1000X-E_UserManul_UM0101E-E02B.pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/UserManual/SDS1000X-E_UserManul_UM0101E-E02B.pdf)

Off to read it..............
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on July 22, 2017, 09:22:42 am
I have an SDS2000X.  Is there a quick way to zoom into a DC offset signal with the channel DC coupled?

I have a 3.3V power rail that looks a little noisy that I need to inspect.  When I change the V/Div, the DC offset changes.  And once you are in 10mV/Div, even the course adjust is much to fine and takes forever to adjust. The "Auto Setup" button gets close, but it takes a long time to operate and always changes my V/Div. 

I'd rather the offset stay fixed as I change V/Div.  Instead I've resorted to writing SCPI "Zoom In" and "Zoom Out" commands that does this for me and binding them to hotkeys.  This really seems like something the scope should do for me.

Is there a reason the V/Offset has to scale with V/Div in a DSO?  Why does pushing the "Position" button change to 0V instead of Vmean?

This is not SDS2000X alone. Also all SDS1000X  and X-E.

There is room for make it better for user. User interface NEED develp better for adjusting and set offset V and also how it handle it when V/div setting change.  Analog front end itself have hardware what need 3 separate offset range.

Just for example. If I select (SDS1000X) 500uV/div or (SDS2000X) 1mV or 2mV/div and I need adjust maximum offset. I need carefully think do I need this. Because if I really need it, I need first go to lunch and start this adjust after then Because this adjustment takes long time.
When I need do this I feel every time that this programmer do not have any real knowledge and experience in real world with oscilloscopes. Who can teach them?  Usually specially designers want themselves intensively study and exercise and develop themselves for better and beter but in this culture it looks like this process is unknown stranger. I do if boss really command and just what he command and thats it. Same in chinese schools. If teacher do not command exactly and directly students do nothing. All look how many cny today but no one do free work for develop better. Perhaps Mahjong is more intersting to win than develop better and better UI for win later in future.

Thumb rule: If I need look DC supply ripple, mostly I use input AC coupling.

But not allways. Some times I use input DC coupling but External DC block with quite low cutoff frequency (more capasitance) for detect some very low frequency noise aka "1/f" noise. Scope input AC coupling frequency response is not good for these special things.

Least I hope Siglent develop this offset setting functions much better. There can be some kind of user settable "fixed" offset, there can be some fast way to adjust it more fast and accurate. Also some "keep offset" when I change V/div is important. But in this case need solve how to do if front end change V band.

Details how it is good can not simply define because also different users have different situations and habits. Also there is just like I like black coffee with real milk but some other like 3 in 1 coffee mix.

Also AutoSetup can be more sophisticated with user settable parameters and ways how it do. Example do only vertical, do only horizontal and so on...

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Gandalf_Sr on July 22, 2017, 09:32:20 am
Siglent - I have a request.  If you insist on having all faults reported for all equipment models in this one thread, PLEASE ask posters to start with the actual Model number they are referring to AT THE TOP OF EVERY POST.  I've been catching up on the last few pages and comments are jumping around between different models and it's very confusing.  Also, when people answer questions, they should do the same (if they don't quote the post they are responding to) so that you have to go back and read the original post to know what model was being discussed.

Another request; it doesn't help the engineers in China to understand when we insert colloquialisms or abbreviations like POS, if they looked that up they might think it stood for point of sale.  The request it to keep it in plain English as much as possible.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: boggis the cat on July 22, 2017, 10:03:17 am
There's a new version for the SDS1202X-E that was released a few days ago:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/UserManual/SDS1000X-E_UserManul_UM0101E-E02B.pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/UserManual/SDS1000X-E_UserManul_UM0101E-E02B.pdf)

Off to read it..............
Yes, my reference above is for the new version.

(I have found a few errors already, too.  Mostly references to four-channels.)

For some reason the table of contents ("Table of Content" :) ) and figures ("Content of Figure" :D ) is poorly formatted again.  Why they couldn't spend two minutes to get these aligned with page breaks is a mystery.  I don't know if this is typical for Siglent manuals, or if the person working on these is unusually indifferent.

Also, the specifications in the user manual and data sheet concerning trigger coupling don't agree -- refer to the post #830 above.

Hopefully Siglent will get around to producing a service manual with definitive specifications.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on July 22, 2017, 11:22:27 am
There's a new version for the SDS1202X-E that was released a few days ago:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/UserManual/SDS1000X-E_UserManul_UM0101E-E02B.pdf (http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/UserManual/SDS1000X-E_UserManul_UM0101E-E02B.pdf)

Off to read it..............
Yes, my reference above is for the new version.

(I have found a few errors already, too.  Mostly references to four-channels.)

For some reason the table of contents ("Table of Content" :) ) and figures ("Content of Figure" :D ) is poorly formatted again.  Why they couldn't spend two minutes to get these aligned with page breaks is a mystery.  I don't know if this is typical for Siglent manuals, or if the person working on these is unusually indifferent.

Also, the specifications in the user manual and data sheet concerning trigger coupling don't agree -- refer to the post #830 above.

Hopefully Siglent will get around to producing a service manual with definitive specifications.

In user manual, example some part of trigger explanation is total mess. Perhaps who writw it do not know anything how it works or how this mess is possible.

Small example:
"Analog channel input:  Signals input from analog channels CH1 and CH2 can all be used as the trigger source. No matter whether the input of the channel selected is enabled, the channel can work normally."    :palm:

or
"The oscilloscope provides 4 kinds of trigger coupling modes:
 
? DC: allow DC and AC components into the trigger path."   :palm:

Lot of this kind of things in whole manual. Also some parts are perhaps not at all this model. Some things are perhaps residues from SDS1000 series (CNL/CML/DL/CFL) some things perhaps from SDS2000X models(?)   and some, from deep ground or sky perhaps.

But one thing I can predict and "promise". In future we never get manuals like 1960 - 1980 from Hewlett-Packard or original old Tektronix. Never again. This is impossible. One manual costs more than whole lot of example SDS1000X-E scopes. Doing detailed and very deep level manuals is waste of money and waste of time. No one can do this. Take example late 80s Tektronix manual where is deep in curcuit details and explanations how they work and for front panel users detailed descriptions and definitions how things and adjustments exactly works. This era do not come back. It is impossible. No one do not want pay it. 
Todau scopes are buy-use-recycle and buy new... pewriod is now perhaps  2 - 4 years. Soon period is more short. Who have time to read even one full set of Tektronix 2465 manual, exactly. every chapter, every detail and also understood these exctly. (of course it can....all things can...but) I do not personally know any.
Also I have still left "truck load" of these old manuals (and equipments). Some manuals I have even never opened. Just collecting dust. Some day I read very deeply one Tek Digital scope manual for find how high resolution exatly work and produce data...  it was possible because manual was really perfect and not too many errors in this chapter.

One very important thing is: learn yourself how your equipment works exatly in special situations, exercise..exercise, read free available materials for basic simple or complex things... it is also called.."know your equipment".  Use only after this period for any serious real work. Fun play and real works, they are also bit different cases.  We can not say RTFM because manuals are - poor or wrong or junk.

Also, good and technically experienced seller can give some short "course" for model detail or basic things what are good to know (if buy from local place where sellers are engineer level and know also more than just price and carton weight and color.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Gandalf_Sr on July 22, 2017, 12:18:43 pm
Quote
DC: allow DC and AC components into the trigger path.
If the DC input selection removes the capacitor from the input then DC and AC components will enter the scope. e.g. if you had a DC trigger set up of +1 V and then input a 3 V pk-pk signal, the positive-going half of the waveform would trigger when it hit the +1V level, what's wrong with that?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: boggis the cat on July 23, 2017, 01:10:04 pm
Quote
DC: allow DC and AC components into the trigger path.
If the DC input selection removes the capacitor from the input then DC and AC components will enter the scope. e.g. if you had a DC trigger set up of +1 V and then input a 3 V pk-pk signal, the positive-going half of the waveform would trigger when it hit the +1V level, what's wrong with that?
Nothing.

The implication is that for an AC coupled channel, DC trigger coupling is functionally the same as AC trigger coupling.  Some functionality gets lost if you perform triggering on the digitised data from the ADC.

(This is functionally the same as taking an analogue trigger from the channel signal path after the blocking capacitor -- it doesn't matter if the trigger coupling is DC or AC if the channel is set to AC coupling.)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: boggis the cat on July 23, 2017, 01:21:12 pm
But one thing I can predict and "promise". In future we never get manuals like 1960 - 1980 from Hewlett-Packard or original old Tektronix. Never again. This is impossible. One manual costs more than whole lot of example SDS1000X-E scopes.
Or about one round of drinks at the executives' country club.  (Priorities.)

Yes, documentation does take time and effort -- and money -- to produce.  That is not an excuse to omit it or do a poor job.

Quote
We can not say RTFM because manuals are - poor or wrong or junk.
Rigol seem to be able to produce better manuals.  I see no reason why Siglent can't at least match Rigol.

Quote
Also, good and technically experienced seller can give some short "course" for model detail or basic things what are good to know (if buy from local place where sellers are engineer level and know also more than just price and carton weight and color.
Are you really saying that the reseller / agent should be responsible for effectively documenting what they sell?  If so, perhaps you should consider the profit margins on these low-end 'scopes compared to the Tektronix and Keysight price level.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on July 23, 2017, 05:27:44 pm
Quote
But one thing I can predict and "promise". In future we never get manuals like 1960 - 1980 from Hewlett-Packard or original old Tektronix. Never again. This is impossible. One manual costs more than whole lot of example SDS1000X-E scopes.
Or about one round of drinks at the executives' country club.  (Priorities.)

Yes, documentation does take time and effort -- and money -- to produce.  That is not an excuse to omit it or do a poor job.
Aggree and poor job can not accept. There is also some level in poor job that making better do not cost nearly anything but give job to other person who can do it.


Quote
Quote
We can not say RTFM because manuals are - poor or wrong or junk.
Rigol seem to be able to produce better manuals.  I see no reason why Siglent can't at least match Rigol.
Yes I really hope Siglent do better manuals but Rigol must not be any kind of example that should be imitated. Example what try reach must be Siglent own standards what need develop and then reach.

Quote
Quote
Also, good and technically experienced seller can give some short "course" for model detail or basic things what are good to know (if buy from local place where sellers are engineer level and know also more than just price and carton weight and color.
Are you really saying that the reseller / agent should be responsible for effectively documenting what they sell?  If so, perhaps you should consider the profit margins on these low-end 'scopes compared to the Tektronix and Keysight price level.

False. At least a really weird interpretation of what I said. Talking is pretty difficult if every message is twisted.



Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: boggis the cat on July 26, 2017, 08:31:28 am
Quote from: rf-loop
Also, good and technically experienced seller can give some short "course" for model detail or basic things what are good to know (if buy from local place where sellers are engineer level and know also more than just price and carton weight and color.
Quote from: boggis the cat
Are you really saying that the reseller / agent should be responsible for effectively documenting what they sell?  If so, perhaps you should consider the profit margins on these low-end 'scopes compared to the Tektronix and Keysight price level.
False. At least a really weird interpretation of what I said. Talking is pretty difficult if every message is twisted.
Then you should explain what you meant by that remark, as it appears that you are indeed suggesting that the reseller / agent should make up for the shortcomings in documentation and other support from the manufacturer.

Shifting the burden of support from the manufacturer onto the intermediaries or customer is the biggest problem that these Chinese companies need to resolve.  If they made a bit more effort here (and tried to better QA the firmware) they would be perceived as being more equivalent to the 'name brand' manufacturers -- and the cost of this need not be exorbitant.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: markus_jlrb on August 01, 2017, 12:34:38 pm
Dear SSA3021X staff,

could someone verify the mentioned behavior of the device listed below:

My FW Version is 1.2.8.3

When setting Ref level to 0dBm, scale grid to 1dB and
measuring trace#1 (alias A) switching then via front button
to trace#2 (alias B) and selecting clear trace to start the scan
of the second trace then trace A will be deleted while trace B
plotted.

I observed this behavior only in the 1dB scale factor setting.
When using 10dB scale all looks fine.

Thanks in advance for your explanation.

Markus
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on August 01, 2017, 02:26:45 pm
Dear SSA3021X staff,

could someone verify the mentioned behavior of the device listed below:

My FW Version is 1.2.8.3

When setting Ref level to 0dBm, scale grid to 1dB and
measuring trace#1 (alias A) switching then via front button
to trace#2 (alias B) and selecting clear trace to start the scan
of the second trace then trace A will be deleted while trace B
plotted.

I observed this behavior only in the 1dB scale factor setting.
When using 10dB scale all looks fine.

Thanks in advance for your explanation.

Markus

Hello, Markus.
Maybe I am not quite understanding your question correctly but if Trace 1 and Trace 2 are both set to Clear-Write then they are both displaying the same signal. The last trace you select (Trace 2 in this case) will be in front of Trace 1 so it will hide Trace 1. When you change the scale (or RBW or just about any other parameter) the traces will now appear differently so that you can see them both.

For a test, you might use View on one trace and Clear-Write on the second. You should be able to see a slight difference between them.

If I have misunderstood your question, you can contact us at
info@siglent.com

Regards
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: markus_jlrb on August 02, 2017, 08:20:52 am
Dear Siglent-Staff,

I will clarify a bit more my concern.

The issue I obserfed occured during the measurement of a 3dB three port power splitter.
I had switch on the TG (-10dBm Level) and connected output of TG to input of SA.
The full span was sweeped and the result was stored into trace A. This was my ref line.
Then I plugged the PS between input and output (TG <-> SA)  terminated the remaining
PS port with 50Ohm load and switch to trace B and start a second sweep to see the
difference.

When doing this in the 10dB grid scale mode all went fine, but when doing the same job
in the 1dB grid scale mode, trace A will be deleted while trace B is sweeped.

Hopefully you could verify and observ the mentioned behavior.

Many thanks in advance for your effort and sorry for causing inconvenience if so.

Markus

     
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on August 02, 2017, 09:25:06 am
I made 3 measurements using TG

First trace A  circuit between TG out SA in  then lock trace using view
then trace B  small chance in circuit and as trace A
then trace C again small change and running when take image.

works just normally, as designed and without any problems

So if there is some problem you need explain it more detailed, exactly including all things, so that it can repeat.

Can you make test so that first with normalization using very short cable 1. and  use 95% NormRefPos setting so that trace is not top border. After then do not change level settings or frequency settings!
Then do this same test so that circuit between TG and SA input is just cable 2. and save trace A (view). Next test with  trace, B, with  cable 3.

Trace A disappear?


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=337675;image)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: markus_jlrb on August 02, 2017, 10:38:58 am
Dears,

thanks for your verification and effort.

I will do some tests with screenshots attached and a more detailed
step by step discription tonight and will post my results a.s.a.p.

Bye
Markus
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: markus_jlrb on August 03, 2017, 07:41:04 am
Dear Staff,

I had verified the mentioned behavior today again.
I will summrize my observations again.
See attached Pictures.

A: action / P: picture
A1: TG=0dBm / scale=1db /  ref=3dBm / Sweep single / Trace button pressed / trace A selected / Clear Write
P1: Trace A was sweeped and frozen on the screen.

A2: trace B selected / inserted DUT between TG and SA
P2: Trace A label changed to Trace B only

A3: Clear Write selected
P3: while trace B is printed trace A will be deleted (was my first impression)

But what I found today is that Trace A is shifted/hidden behind Trace B and if I press
Blank softkey the trace B will be deleted and just behind trace B that overlaped trace A
the trace A occure again but at the positionof trace B.

Hopfully you could now reproduce my observation.

Markus
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: markus_jlrb on August 03, 2017, 07:59:11 am
Dears,

by the way,

is the labeled part of the attached tracking plot

discontinued due to a calibration lookup error ?

If so how I could correct it?

Measurment to do this is available but where inside
the OS have I correct it?

Thanks Markus

 
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on August 03, 2017, 09:22:35 am
After this all, I will kindly recommend that you now delete all things what you think about how to use this spectrum analyzer.  Then after self reset. Start from empty table. Start carefully lessons study and exercises how to use this spectrum analyzer. Lessons aafter lessons start from bottom to top, step by step.
It looks like there is now so many things that this course is not easy using only forum.
Sorry if I feel arrogant but with my poor english I can not use all polite sentences.

Start from lesson about what are separate traces and how they work and how to use settings and what are these all settings.
If there is some bug-error it is always possible but with your examples I can not find but only normal working equipment (and possible operator errors or you did and set still something what you did not tell)

Example here you wonder how trace A disappear in your third image. Of course it disappear, It is broken if it do not this.


Then you wonder this step what small step can see in trace. Of course there are steps. TG Output level is adjusted  by steps and these steps are in factory produced TG output level calibration table inside system. It need dosome steps for compensate level errors over freq band and steps are not there very small. These all are in TG out cal data table but please do not touch them (yes if you go inside you can even manually edit these tables)  if you do not really know how it works and if you do not have right test instruments etc. stay away from factory cal data.
You perhaps have somehow missed normalize function what you really need do every time first for your reference setup (external test setup what you use)  Normalization is function what you really need know and understand what it do and also how to use it right way.
This IS very important function. After you know how traces work and how to handle and set these trace things then before you start anything more with TG, you need be familiar with Normalize function. Also it need know how to use it and what you can not do after normalization without need do it again. 
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: markus_jlrb on August 03, 2017, 11:15:54 am
Dear "rf-loop"

to be kind and to give you a proper answer
I would like to know more precise what you meant with "After this all"
to follow your thoughts.

My first contact with SA's is dated to 1981 and I believe to have some
general (mayby not an expert) knowledge in SA technique.

So please help me to follow you and your comment.

Many thanks in advance for your kind response.

By the way my opinion is that the SA FW has a geaphical
but not a measurment feature that cause the trace to dissapear.

Markus

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on August 03, 2017, 01:50:43 pm
Dear "rf-loop"

to be kind and to give you a proper answer
I would like to know more precise what you meant with "After this all"
to follow your thoughts.

My first contact with SA's is dated to 1981 and I believe to have some
general (mayby not an expert) knowledge in SA technique.

So please help me to follow you and your comment.

Many thanks in advance for your kind response.

By the way my opinion is that the SA FW has a geaphical
but not a measurment feature that cause the trace to dissapear.

Markus

Also I have first contact with SA but around it was 70 century.

It helps of course to understand some things. But, it do not give lot knowledge how to do operations with example tis Siglent.
There need learn details how to operate Siglent and what it do in different situátions with different settings etc. History experience do not teach these things.

Now may I ask why you wonder trace A is deleted in this image. (yes now I can see you have explained it bit in your original message "But what I found today is that Trace A is shifted/hidden behind Trace B and if I press
Blank softkey the trace B will be deleted and just behind trace B that overlaped trace A
the trace A occure again but at the positionof trace B.")

Quote
A: action / P: picture
A1: TG=0dBm / scale=1db /  ref=3dBm / Sweep single / Trace button pressed / trace A selected / Clear Write
P1: Trace A was sweeped and frozen on the screen.

Yes frozen because not new sweep. But it is still not fixed to screen and late new sweep overwrite it.
What to do. As you see trace A is still in normal write mode. At this point, before go to next step, you need stop trace A writing so that it do not follow data anymore. --» Select trace A mode: View. After then it is fixed and it do not "listen" new data and (new sweep) do not overwrite it. If you now change level level things, fixed trace A also follow, If you change horizontal, fixed trace A do not re scale. It is not fixed to freq axis. IN some cases it is useful but some cases it is more useful if it do scaling and is fixed to freq axis, as it is fixed to level axis.

So, I mean, study and exercise Siglent opertator things. "Know your equipment".  Of course it do not mean that need learn what is spectrum analyzing and analyzers. (exept that after analog sweeping SA with analog filter IF need understand how differently full digital IF works and affect things in some situations. Good to know what all is meaning of samping "bucket". THis SA do not exactly sweep! It is hopping. IN some cases this may be very important to know before think that there is bug. But this have nothing now to do with this your example.

Overall this is good example.

So, how ever you do but if I want look first some circuit with TG - SA and want keep this trace for example my own needings as some kind of reference... and after then I want change circuit between TG - SA and look how it differ from first.

Connect circuit and do sweep or sweeps using traces A and B or just A...  then freeze trace A to display selecting trace A mode View.

Make changes in circuit and continue sweeping with trace B writing. Now you can follow how it looks like related to A example when you do adjustments.

Also it need realize how important is Normalization function

Quote
A2: trace B selected / inserted DUT between TG and SA
P2: Trace A label changed to Trace B only
Just as it works and I can not see any problem in image. There is only one menu what need display what trace settings you are doing. (If you mean this menu label).
But also this make me wondering why and what you think is wrong? So, for undestanding better I will do this operation as you did and with thinking-quessing what you perhaps want or expect to see with these 3 steps. So I handle this later after I quess what you want see.




Then this
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=337903;image)
Quote
A3: Clear Write selected
P3: while trace B is printed trace A will be deleted (was my first impression)

Here happend just how it works. In this sweep both traces A and B write same data to screen. Both traces are in Clear write mode. Just as your previous images tell. Also trace A indicator in panel left side tell it is not freezed to View mode. 

Traces fixed dislay overlay priority is: Starting from bottom: A, B, C and D. If all traces are on and writing with equal settings there can see only D.


But there is also one detail in your explanation what I need retest when I have time to use SSA before I say anything about it.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: markus_jlrb on August 03, 2017, 02:58:22 pm
Dear "rf-loop"

many thanks for your detailed explanation.

What I was aware was that the TG is sweeped by steps (hopping) and a fft is done for the pice of time domain alias spectrum.
As well as i was aware of the normalization needed for qualified and precise  measurements - but this was not needed for demonstration.
What I was not awere was the fact that it is necessary too push the view button in a single sweep mode.

During my first steps with this SSA I always pushed the view button to froze the previous trace but this was always a bit tedious to do it
every time. so I switched to the single sweep mode.

So now I understand that it is necessary always to activate the view mode to hold the trace inside the trace memory.
But from my understanding this should be done automatically if I switch to a different trace - hopefully you admit.

As you mentioned before the normalization my way of thinking was a bit different - sorry for that.
I plot the first trace without the DUT (TG/SA connected together) and then I change to the next trace and connected the DUT between.
After the plot of the next trace I changed to the TRACE/MATH function and done the calculation of the difference to see the result.
I have to mentioned that I miss a combination of X+-Y+-<Constant> only X+-Y+-REF is available now but this will be perhaps a
feature in the future - thanks for that in advance.

Markus


 
 
 
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on August 03, 2017, 04:44:00 pm
Dear "rf-loop"

many thanks for your detailed explanation.

What I was aware was that the TG is sweeped by steps (hopping) and a fft is done for the pice of time domain alias spectrum.
As well as i was aware of the normalization needed for qualified and precise  measurements - but this was not needed for demonstration.
What I was not awere was the fact that it is necessary too push the view button in a single sweep mode.

During my first steps with this SSA I always pushed the view button to froze the previous trace but this was always a bit tedious to do it
every time. so I switched to the single sweep mode.

So now I understand that it is necessary always to activate the view mode to hold the trace inside the trace memory.
But from my understanding this should be done automatically if I switch to a different trace - hopefully you admit.

As you mentioned before the normalization my way of thinking was a bit different - sorry for that.
I plot the first trace without the DUT (TG/SA connected together) and then I change to the next trace and connected the DUT between.
After the plot of the next trace I changed to the TRACE/MATH function and done the calculation of the difference to see the result.Now you see trace B show this filter shape and you can compare these and example do adjustments so they match. Or run some other procedures and measurements.

Also when use spectrum (also using TG) it can run so that traces are connected to different detectors etc. 
Example trace A detector pos peak and draw max hold. Trace B detector negative peaks and draw min hold.
Trace C normal and clear write and trace D detector video average and clear write (D not with TG when Normalize, it is reserved)

With TG in use or not. THis is fast freq hopping system. It do not sweep like analog SA at all. So, also detectors need understand carefully and understand why wrong detector for signal under test may give totally bad result. Using
I have to mentioned that I miss a combination of X+-Y+-<Constant> only X+-Y+-REF is available now but this will be perhaps a
feature in the future - thanks for that in advance.

Markus

Yes, it is important to freeze trace using view. Also after single sweep.  Of course it can do automatically if they program it for this but how then if user do not want freeze it when he use multi trace for things what he want. Example some may want use multi trace so that every trace have is "connected" to different detector. In what circumstances SSA need do "auto freeze" and when user want it do not. It is more easy that operator is master and SSA is sub. It is perhaps whole mess for many different users if it do this kind of things automatically. There is so many different applications for what we use SSA.

Usually in simple case example with VSWR bridge. First connect it between TG - SA. Insert standard load to bridge port.
After then do normalization.
Now there is straight line. If want, user can set display line to this level if it is more nice for view.

After then this standard load out from bridge port (or cable end) and connect DUT (example antenna)

After then just run continuous sweeping and watch screen when do adjustments in antenna itself. All time can see difference to normalized level.

In some other case, if have example two filter what want compare or adjust they match with each others by simple meaning.

Do setup for filters connection between TA - SA  so that you can normalize this whole setup but just without filter using connector in place of filter,

Normalize.

Connect reference filter and let SA sweep. Example traces A and B. Then freeze trace A: set mode View. Now you have filter shape on the screen as your reference (trace A).

SA can sweep, but now only trace B is writing.

Take filter out and connect other filter for adjust to match with first one.

Trace A show reference filter shape and B follow nor this filter under check/adjustment.


Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: markus_jlrb on August 04, 2017, 05:14:38 am
Dear "rf-loop"

your absolutely right - for this kind of comparison measurements of antennas or filters
the continuouse sweep is an excellent mode. In my case I just compared DUTs statically
to play around with the SA so my perspective was different what leads to my statement.

Many thanks for your patience and explanations.

Enjoy your weekend and probably sure until next time when other issues arise during my
steps with this nice SA.



Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: pantelei4 on August 19, 2017, 02:46:48 pm
What is the news on the SHS800 series?
It's not Siglent Technical Support.    :--
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: evgen.05 on August 20, 2017, 02:39:07 pm
Hello! Found a bug in sds 1202x-e. Single shot trigger not working on 50ms and higher. From 20ms to 2ns everything work fine.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on August 20, 2017, 03:21:18 pm
Hello! Found a bug in sds 1202x-e. Single shot trigger not working on 50ms and higher. From 20ms to 2ns everything work fine.
Btw, why you tell it works from 20ms to 2ns. Why yiou did not tell it works 20ms to 1ns if you have used this scope.

Here it works rock solid also using 50ms/div and slower down to 100s/div. (long time for wait when testing)

Can you tell exactly in what mode you use scope.
Also it is good practice to tell FW version when report some possible problems independent of if error is user error or equipment error. Current FW version is 5.1.3.13

It nice if error reporting user can give as much as  possible (and also these what you perhaps think are not needed) information, not opinions but real data, starting from signal used for test  and ending to whole list of scope settings when firnd problem. This waysome other people here or in Siglent  can try repeat this problem and then it is very useful.



Input 20Hz   square wave and turn 50ms/div and set for ok signal level on the screen, example 4 - 6div height.
Turn Roll mode OFF!  and in trigger selections select Auto and push trigger level knob for 50%
Now select trigger Normal. Display looks as previously and you see it triggers and capture signal just as in auto mode (in this case)
Now push Sigle. You see it do single acquisition and stops.
What is now wrong?
Push again Single, again it do sigle shot.
You can change frequency and you can see it triggers just perfect and do just perfect one single shot for this

What I do not personally like at all is that default is that it force to roll mode always you go from 20ms/div to 50ms/div.
It urgently need feature that user can select if it do autoRoll mode or not. This defaulted auto Roll is terrible as long as user can not select if it do it automatically or not.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: evgen.05 on August 20, 2017, 03:38:32 pm
Hello! Found a bug in sds 1202x-e. Single shot trigger not working on 50ms and higher. From 20ms to 2ns everything work fine.

Here it works rock solid.

Can you tell exactly in what mode you use scope.
Roll or not Roll

Input 20Hz square and turn 50ms/div and set for ok signal level on the screen.
Turn Roll mode OFF!  and in trigger selections select Auto and push trigger level knob for 50%
Now select trigger Normal. Display looks as previously and you see it triggers and capture signal just as in auto mode (in this case)
Now push Sigle. You see it do single acquisition and stops.
What is now wrong?
Push again Single, again it do sigle shot.
You can change frequency and you can see it triggers just perfect and do just perfect one single shot for this

Yes Roll mode.
Tried to make how you told - works well. This behavior is very strange. Before this oscilloscope used Hantek. There is no this "feature" Roll mode and trigger in single shot mode worked without any "bugs"
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on August 20, 2017, 03:57:58 pm
Also Single works in Roll mode. But Roll mode may have less sample rate and it may work bit different what user may think, but it is special Rollmode single trig.
In normal and auto you can use full 14M but in Rollpaper mode you can use max 1.4M so samplerate is 1:10.
After it have been in Roll mode and you go to other mode remember to check memory maximum length setting. It is not memory lenghth, it is memory length maximum limit in Siglent. And Rollpaper mode force it to max 1.4M.


When user do Single in Roll mode there is one "trick" what need understand.
When you turn Roll mode to Sigle trigger mode it Roll. It do NOT wait trigger! But then after it get trigger it capture whole trace and stop so that trigger event is in trigger time position. Paper roll is rolling in Single mode until it meet trigger event!
Title: sds2000X series sample rate 4 channel mode ?
Post by: glenenglish on September 01, 2017, 03:25:28 am
Hello Sigilent support,
I am considering a sds2000X four channel.

1) SDS2304X : What is the sample rate per channel for a FOUR mode ? is it 2/2 = 1Gsps or 2/4 = 0.5 Gsps ?

2) your sds1202X-E , how does it do SPI decoding (4 wire) with only 3 inputs (ch1, ch2, trigger ) ? (or is it only MOSI or MISO one at a time ) ?

with thanks
glen
Title: Re: sds2000X series sample rate 4 channel mode ?
Post by: tautech on September 01, 2017, 03:41:55 am
Hello Sigilent support,
I am considering a sds2000X four channel.

1) SDS2304X : What is the sample rate per channel for a FOUR mode ? is it 2/2 = 1Gsps or 2/4 = 0.5 Gsps ?

2) your sds1202X-E , how does it do SPI decoding (4 wire) with only 3 inputs (ch1, ch2, trigger ) ? (or is it only MOSI or MISO one at a time ) ?

with thanks
glen
I can answer both these.

1) 2 x 2 GSa/s divided by 4 = 1 GSa/s for all active channels. If ch 1 and 3 OR 4 are used 2 GSa/s is available for each of the 2 active channels. (4 ch models only)
Image below shows sampling rate and available memory depth (140 Mpts) halved when all are channels active.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=346723;image)

2) Yes only MOSI OR MISO along with the clock.
At this time there is no provision to use EXT trigger in the Decode UI.

I can answer further questions by PM if needed as I have both these models.

Edit. Image added.
Title: Re: sds2000X series sample rate 4 channel mode ?
Post by: rf-loop on September 01, 2017, 05:13:02 am
I am considering a sds2000X four channel.

1) SDS2304X : What is the sample rate per channel for a FOUR mode ? is it 2/2 = 1Gsps or 2/4 = 0.5 Gsps ?


Tautech allready answer this but still I will explain it bit more detailed so that there can not be any misunderstandigs also for possible other readers.

SDS2xx2X  2 channel models have 2GSa/s for 1 channel in use and 1GSa/s for both channels simultaneously. There is 140M memory. It is also shared with these two channels. For one channel max 140Msamples and 70M for both channels when both channels are use at same time.  Because sample rate is divided by 2 and memory length is divided by 2 acquisition time length is same.
This is because there is one two channel ADC chip. When 1 channel is in use this ADC works internally interleaved mode and samplerate is 2GSa/s and when it is used as 2 channels mode it have 1GSa/s for both channels simultaneously.

SDS2xx4X  4 channel models have two similar 2 channel systems.
 
It can say that there is  2 x  2 channel systems. We can think Ch1 and Ch2 is pair 1 and Ch3 and Ch4 is pair 2.

If in pair 1 is only one channel in use and same time in pair 2 is also 1 channel in use both these channels can use 2GSa/s and both these channels have max 140M acquisition lenght.

If least one pair have both channels in use then also other pair max is 1GSa/s.
So, if 3 or 4 channels are in use simultaneously maximum is 1GSa/s and max memory for every channel is 70M.

Using 16 channel  LA do not "eat" analog channels resources and vice versa. 

This same ADC and memory principle is also used in later coming SDS1xx4X-E models. Exept that ADC's there are 1GSa/s
 (or 1Ga/s as Siglent have mistyped in front panel sticker). 
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: kvd on September 01, 2017, 10:27:32 pm
On the SDS-1202X-E I noticed that the numeric entry window for the FFT Center Frequency reacts just opposite to turning of the Intensity/Adjust knob as all the other numeric entry windows.

This is quite annoying. Numeric entry is already quite cumbersome, even without this opposite behaviour. Siglent please correct this in the next firmware issue.

I am running 5.1.3.13 now.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Plasmateur on September 01, 2017, 11:34:59 pm


Hello, I was wondering if you could confirm my findings about the SDG2042X

I see two peaks on a signal analyzer when both channels are on.

It seems that the CH.1 has more isolation from channel CH.2 when both channels are on.

Example of my setup today.

I set CH.1  to 40MHz between 5-30mV @ 50Ohm

I set CH.2 to 38MHZ between 5-30mV @ 50Ohm

I then tested the frequency spectrum of each channel on a signal analyzer.

Signal analyzer indicates maximum isolation on CH.1 to be around 50dB with respect to CH.2 when both channels are on, and CH.2 has around 40dB with respect to CH.1 when both channels are on.

I switch frequencies on each channel and adjusted frequencies as well. Same results.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on September 02, 2017, 08:03:55 am


Hello, I was wondering if you could confirm my findings about the SDG2042X

I see two peaks on a signal analyzer when both channels are on.

It seems that the CH.1 has more isolation from channel CH.2 when both channels are on.

Example of my setup today.

I set CH.1  to 40MHz between 5-30mV @ 50Ohm

I set CH.2 to 38MHZ between 5-30mV @ 50Ohm

I then tested the frequency spectrum of each channel on a signal analyzer.

Signal analyzer indicates maximum isolation on CH.1 to be around 50dB with respect to CH.2 when both channels are on, and CH.2 has around 40dB with respect to CH.1 when both channels are on.

I switch frequencies on each channel and adjusted frequencies as well. Same results.

I can confirm it.
In my tests worst case what I can find without more long tests is:
And all values @50ohm  Open working channel terminated (in some cases effect is high)

CH1  38MHz, sine, 6.5mVpp
CH2  40MHz, sine, 6.5mVpp

Measured using SSA3021X
From CH1.   CH2 signal can see -57.5dB below CH1 signal.
From CH2.   CH1 signal can see -30.4dB below CH2 signal.


CH1  38MHz, sine, 6.6mVpp
CH2  40MHz, sine, 6.6mVpp

Measured using SSA3021X
From CH1.   CH2 signal can see -60.9dB below CH1 signal.
From CH2.   CH1 signal can see -41.8dB below CH2 signal.


0dBm level test:

CH1  38MHz, sine, 632.6mVpp 
CH2  40MHz, sine, 632.6mVpp

Measured using SSA3021X
From CH1.   CH2 signal can see -74.2 dB below CH1 signal.  (CH2 termination important!)
From CH2.   CH1 signal can see -77.9 dB below CH2 signal.  (CH1 termination important!)


My recommandation have always been that using function generator as rf generator best way is that set FG quite high level but not highest (example +10 ... +17dBm (10 - 50mW )  and use external attenuator for set low level signals. Not only for this reason here now but also overall signal quality.
This is also how professional RF generators work typically. They produce quite high level RF and after then, before output is attenuator.   

But, I hope Siglent do investigation why this leaks much more from
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Plasmateur on September 02, 2017, 07:55:12 pm
Thank you or confirming rf-loop.

The reason why I was using such a low voltage was because of the 2nd harmonic I was seeing on the signal analyzer.

I will attempt to use 0dBm on both CH.1 and CH.2 and an external attenuator. Then I will check the 2nd harmonic on a signal analyzer. I might have to buy a low pass filter for the 2nd harmonic.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on September 11, 2017, 01:59:38 pm
We have updated the firmware on both the the SDM3055 and SDM3065X DMMs.

SDM3055: 1.01.01.19
You can download the firmware from the below link:
 
http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=6413&tid=15 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=6413&tid=15)
 
The new firmware information as below:
1.      Add U disk recovery function.
2.      Modify Hold function arithmetic.
3.      Add the telnet SCPI function.
         Example: telnet 192.168.0.10  port: 5024
4.     Repair the external trig problem.
 
 
SDM3065X: 3.01.01.03
You can download the firmware from the below link:
 
http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=6414&tid=15 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=6414&tid=15)
 
The new firmware information as below:
1.      Add U disk recovery function.
2.      Add the update of the calibration data function.
3.      Fix the bug of a few abnormal DCV measurements when the input terminal is shorted.
4.      Repair the external trigger problem.
5.      Add the telnet SCPI function.
         Example: telnet 192.168.0.10  port :5024
6.      Some FPGA optimizations.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: flash2b on September 12, 2017, 07:15:30 am
Like I posted in the other thread related to the SDM3000 DMMs, I have update my SDM3055 to 1.19. This worked fine and even my reported 'beeper bug' was gone.

However I wonder what Siglent means with "Add U disk recovery function.". I browsed trough all the menus and I didn't see any new option in the file/usb section. Is this function some special thing where the device can recover from the USB when I fails to boot ?

Hope someone can give the answer.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on September 12, 2017, 07:41:59 am
Like I posted in the other thread related to the SDM3000 DMMs, I have update my SDM3055 to 1.19. This worked fine and even my reported 'beeper bug' was gone.

However I wonder what Siglent means with "Add U disk recovery function.". I browsed trough all the menus and I didn't see any new option in the file/usb section. Is this function some special thing where the device can recover from the USB when I fails to boot ?

Hope someone can give the answer.
I very much suspect it is.
Looking at the changelogs for several new FW versions we see this 'recovery function' being added to a # of instruments.
I've not bothered to ask as this seems the obvious explanation. (to me)

My 2c until informed otherwise.  ;)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: borjam on September 12, 2017, 08:02:16 am
I very much suspect it is.
Looking at the changelogs for several new FW versions we see this 'recovery function' being added to a # of instruments.
I've not bothered to ask as this seems the obvious explanation. (to me)

My 2c until informed otherwise.  ;)
If I remember well there were some issues with Siglent equipment failing to boot after a non graceful shutdown. It would certainly make sense to add some recovery option.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on September 12, 2017, 08:14:05 am
I very much suspect it is.
Looking at the changelogs for several new FW versions we see this 'recovery function' being added to a # of instruments.
I've not bothered to ask as this seems the obvious explanation. (to me)

My 2c until informed otherwise.  ;)
If I remember well there were some issues with Siglent equipment failing to boot after a non graceful shutdown.
Only in the X-E (that I've seen mentioned) but AFAIK it was with the initial firmware, not any since.
There's no mention of the 'USB recovery' add on in the latest X-E FW 5.1.3.13.

Quote
It would certainly make sense to add some recovery option.
:)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: MrW0lf on September 12, 2017, 05:57:14 pm
Only in the X-E (that I've seen mentioned) but AFAIK it was with the initial firmware, not any since.

SDG2000X, after fw update + using using AWG software immediately afterwards.
Solution was mainboard replacement.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: StillTrying on September 13, 2017, 03:03:54 pm
Do Siglent have any plans for new CML+  /DL+ firmware, or is the firmware now finished ?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: exe on September 13, 2017, 06:34:04 pm
I have problem with SDG2042X. It sometimes displays voltage twice higher / lower than it actually is (I know about output impedance). Last boot it the displayed amplitude didn't even change when switching between 50Ohm and HiZ. It all started after I enabled channel coupling. Anyone else experiencing this? I can't figure out the exact steps to reproduce, but it wasn't a single glitch.

Firmware version 23R3
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on September 14, 2017, 07:57:40 am
I have problem with SDG2042X. It sometimes displays voltage twice higher / lower than it actually is (I know about output impedance). Last boot it the displayed amplitude didn't even change when switching between 50Ohm and HiZ. It all started after I enabled channel coupling. Anyone else experiencing this? I can't figure out the exact steps to reproduce, but it wasn't a single glitch.

Firmware version 23R3
A Self Cal (after warm up) should return it to factory default.
Then if you retrace previous settings while taking notes if you find a/some settings that give the trouble the factory can try and reproduce it.
Let us know if it's still not right.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: exe on September 14, 2017, 08:34:22 am
A Self Cal (after warm up) should return it to factory default.
Then if you retrace previous settings while taking notes if you find a/some settings that give the trouble the factory can try and reproduce it.
Let us know if it's still not right.

The problem gone after reboot. Shall I still do these steps? I never done self cal or something on my instrument because it looks to be calibrated. I prefer not to mess up with calibration without a need...

A few more details: I use it as a DC source and a few times overvoltage protection kicked in (not sure why, investigating. I connect it to LM358N opamp, want to do FRA for my power supply).
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on September 14, 2017, 09:31:40 am
A Self Cal (after warm up) should return it to factory default.
Then if you retrace previous settings while taking notes if you find a/some settings that give the trouble the factory can try and reproduce it.
Let us know if it's still not right.

The problem gone after reboot.
:-+
Quote
Shall I still do these steps?

Only if you want to track down if there is indeed an underlying problem.

Quote
I never done self cal or something on my instrument because it looks to be calibrated. I prefer not to mess up with calibration without a need...
It's an internal automated Self Cal, it takes just a few minutes once you enable it. You'll find it tucked away in the Utilities menu. Good idea to run it after any firmware update.

Quote
A few more details: I use it as a DC source and a few times overvoltage protection kicked in (not sure why, investigating. I connect it to LM358N opamp, want to do FRA for my power supply).
Use a series diode for peace of mind until you work out what's going on.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on September 14, 2017, 08:13:20 pm
Do Siglent have any plans for new CML+  /DL+ firmware, or is the firmware now finished ?

Although I cannot say with 100% certainty, I do doubt that the CML+ and DL+ will have any new firmware updates any time soon.
These are  pretty mature products now.

You can always check at
www.SiglentAmerica.com (http://www.SiglentAmerica.com)
for the latest versions.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on September 14, 2017, 09:49:26 pm
Do Siglent have any plans for new CML+  /DL+ firmware, or is the firmware now finished ?

Although I cannot say with 100% certainty, I do doubt that the CML+ and DL+ will have any new firmware updates any time soon.
These are  pretty mature products now.

You can always check at
www.SiglentAmerica.com (http://www.SiglentAmerica.com)
for the latest versions.
Email to US sent.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: exe on September 16, 2017, 09:50:56 pm
A Self Cal (after warm up) should return it to factory default.
Then if you retrace previous settings while taking notes if you find a/some settings that give the trouble the factory can try and reproduce it.
Let us know if it's still not right.

Damn, I found the problem. Nothing to do with HiZ/50Ohm. I had inverted polarity enabled, so when I set output to +5V, the actual output was -5V. I noticed this, but I thought that was because of wrong wiring in my bnc-to-crocodile-clip adapter. So I swapped wires to compensate polarity... But channels have common ground. As a result, both outputs became connected together by grounds in DUT and in SDG2042. So, when I set voltage too high on one channel another channel got "overvoltage protection".

It took me a while to find this problem because I checked wiring without completely disconnecting another channel from DUT. So when I checked ground connection on the first channel, the second channel provided the ground path. Huh :(
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on September 16, 2017, 09:59:38 pm
A Self Cal (after warm up) should return it to factory default.
Then if you retrace previous settings while taking notes if you find a/some settings that give the trouble the factory can try and reproduce it.
Let us know if it's still not right.

Damn, I found the problem. Nothing to do with HiZ/50Ohm. I had inverted polarity enabled, so when I set output to +5V, the actual output was -5V. I noticed this, but I thought that was because of wrong wiring in my bnc-to-crocodile-clip adapter. So I swapped wires to compensate polarity... But channels have common ground. As a result, both outputs became connected together by grounds in DUT and in SDG2042. So, when I set voltage too high on one channel another channel got "overvoltage protection".

It took me a while to find this problem because I checked wiring without completely disconnecting another channel from DUT. So when I checked ground connection on the first channel, the second channel provided the ground path. Huh :(
:)
Which is good reason to know/use the Factory Default function when you've got yourself in a pickle.
Know your instrument.  ;)

Good trap and learning experience.  :)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Plasmateur on September 17, 2017, 02:10:24 am
I see the firmware for the SDG2000 series was recently updated.

I was hoping there would be a fix in the firmware update which would allow both channels to be triggered at the same time using a SCPI command. Is this something that is impossible to do via firmware update?

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: CustomEngineerer on September 17, 2017, 06:52:45 am
Fix? I must have missed the part where that was a promised feature.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: StillTrying on September 17, 2017, 03:06:21 pm
Do Siglent have any plans for new CML+  /DL+ firmware, or is the firmware now finished ?

Although I cannot say with 100% certainty, I do doubt that the CML+ and DL+ will have any new firmware updates any time soon.

Thanks for the reply, not quite the answer I was expecting, I meant to write 'supposedly' finished. :)

"These are  pretty mature products now."

So are the bugs! The CML+'s official launch date was only 15 months ago, so not that mature in FW time.
I've since got a PM suggesting there'll be new CML+ FW sometime soon...
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Plasmateur on September 17, 2017, 07:57:08 pm
Fix? I must have missed the part where that was a promised feature.

Ok, so would you recommend they fix the 120MHz sine performance?
https://youtu.be/_Mup2VnXH_k?t=1336

Both channels can be simulatenously triggered from the aux out port.
I guess I shouldn't of assumed this feature was programmable in a programmable function generator  :-DD
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: exe on September 19, 2017, 07:23:15 am
Which is good reason to know/use the Factory Default function when you've got yourself in a pickle.

Yeah, that would save a lot of time... On the other side, if problem gone after "reset to defaults" I could blame "buggy firmware". But it is not. At least not in this case. Good to know I can still trust my instrument :)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on September 22, 2017, 09:01:28 am
I see the firmware for the SDG2000 series was recently updated.

I was hoping there would be a fix in the firmware update which would allow both channels to be triggered at the same time using a SCPI command. Is this something that is impossible to do via firmware update?
From the SDG2kX product manager:

About the issue of the SDG2000X:
Dual channel triggering via SCPI.
This feature is required to be added into the SCPI command list.

We have confirmed that the SCPI command below can realize it in the latest version (23R7):
C1:BTWV MTRIG (or C2:BTWV MTRIG)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: DazA1 on October 04, 2017, 06:39:26 pm
Any info on a firmware update to the SHS1062 and other handheld scopes?

I have asked about this many times on here and through emails to Siglent, it seems to me they don't have much interest in this product anymore.

Are there any others waiting for an update to the SHS series scopes?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on October 04, 2017, 06:49:54 pm
Daz
The last firmware was in March and as the factory is on a break this week we can't get any answers immediately for you, sorry.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: DazA1 on October 04, 2017, 07:26:22 pm
Ok thanks for letting me know.

i am up to date with the firmware and i look forward to their response next week
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Andbyk on October 05, 2017, 05:14:27 am
Are there any others waiting for an update to the SHS series scopes?

I loosed any hope to get update for my SHS1102  :(
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: DazA1 on October 05, 2017, 05:04:16 pm
Well Siglent joined this forum for customer feedback they should be listening.

If more people ask for the SHS scopes bugs to be fixed on a public forum (i gave up on emails a long time ago) they might take notice.

I've said it before the hardware is good but its the firmware that lets the SHS scopes down.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: pantelei4 on October 05, 2017, 06:49:50 pm
I received questions from Siglent America in personal messages, he promised to report bugs to engineers.
It was in March.
It's good that I did not buy the SHS1000, and spent only $ 400 on 806, which still spoils my nerves, it will not be a pity to break it against the wall.
If Rigol were to produce portable oscilloscopes, I would never have bought Siglent.  :--
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on October 05, 2017, 07:11:46 pm
Thanks guys.
Can I ask if you'd all get together and rebuild your list via PM and repost it here and we'll shove it through to the factory again when they are back on deck.
Things to mention:
Model
Current FW version
Problem
Description of how to replicate problem
How you want it to be fixed

I received questions from Siglent America in personal messages, he promised to report bugs to engineers.
AFAIK Steve is away for the rest of this week and next so we can follow up on this when he returns.

Any problems can be reported directly to the Siglent "Contact us" links on their websites where they will be passed to Tech support and then to engineers. Be sure to include as much info as you can to clearly describe the issue and maybe include screenshots as they show many of the settings used.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: clippo on October 06, 2017, 04:31:14 pm
I recently bought a Siglent SDS1202X-E oscilloscope (I updated to FW version 5.1.3.13) and I noticed a strange issue while doing some cursor measurements.

Maybe I am wrong or I miss something, but I think there is an issue with the Y cursor offset/scaling. The Y1/Y2 cursor values don't match the Y voltage division/offset of the selected input channel. Please see the attached plots for more details. I used the included probe with x10 setting.

Any feedback is welcome.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on October 06, 2017, 04:52:42 pm
I recently bought a Siglent SDS1202X-E oscilloscope (I updated to FW version 5.1.3.13) and I noticed a strange issue while doing some cursor measurements.

Maybe I am wrong or I miss something, but I think there is an issue with the Y cursor offset/scaling. The Y1/Y2 cursor values don't match the Y voltage division/offset of the selected input channel. Please see the attached plots for more details. I used the included probe with x10 setting.

Any feedback is welcome.

Did you note this included in update instructions:

Quote
Update instructions
Very important!
Version5.1.3.13 optimizes self-calibration for the each channel. Perform a self-calibration once if the machine is updated from any version <5.1.3.13

After oscilloscope warm up least 30 minutes, do self cal and of course nothing connected to any input BNC's.


Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: clippo on October 06, 2017, 07:52:31 pm
Quote
Update instructions
Very important!
Version5.1.3.13 optimizes self-calibration for the each channel. Perform a self-calibration once if the machine is updated from any version <5.1.3.13

After oscilloscope warm up least 30 minutes, do self cal and of course nothing connected to any input BNC's.

Yes, I read the instructions and performed the self-calibration after the update as described.

But anyway, I don't have an issue with the accuracy of the measured samples. The voltage readings seem ok on the measure/statistics display and on the grid. It is the cursor display and don't see the technical reason why the cursors should be affected by the self-calibration or by the accuracy of the analog front-end since they are just a display feature for reading plotted values.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on October 07, 2017, 09:43:35 am
Quote
Update instructions
Very important!
Version5.1.3.13 optimizes self-calibration for the each channel. Perform a self-calibration once if the machine is updated from any version <5.1.3.13

After oscilloscope warm up least 30 minutes, do self cal and of course nothing connected to any input BNC's.

Yes, I read the instructions and performed the self-calibration after the update as described.

But anyway, I don't have an issue with the accuracy of the measured samples. The voltage readings seem ok on the measure/statistics display and on the grid. It is the cursor display and don't see the technical reason why the cursors should be affected by the self-calibration or by the accuracy of the analog front-end since they are just a display feature for reading plotted values.



After you note that you do not at all mean signal accuracy and you just mean cursor positions error I download your images and change image gamma so that I can clearly see your images display graticule on my monitor I can immediately see problem.

For look this problem there do not need any signal - this also keep thinking out from signal levels and focusing thinking just for cursors positions. Just enough bright display graticule and vertical (Y) cursors.

I have now seen it with my SDS1202X-E and I can confirm, there is problem in this FW 5.1.3.13

I will later try test more about it. This error do not exists with all setups. Need more investigations.

I will later continue more my tests and I will report it to Siglent after I have done test enough for sufficiently extensive documentation.

This is clearly FW error and it need repair in next possible FW where this fix can schedule. This is clearly FW bug and it need repair in next possible FW where this fix is possible to schedule.

Thank you for the good finding and the emergence of it
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on October 07, 2017, 11:45:18 am
Quote
Update instructions
Very important!
Version5.1.3.13 optimizes self-calibration for the each channel. Perform a self-calibration once if the machine is updated from any version <5.1.3.13

After oscilloscope warm up least 30 minutes, do self cal and of course nothing connected to any input BNC's.



Yes, I read the instructions and performed the self-calibration after the update as described.

But anyway, I don't have an issue with the accuracy of the measured samples. The voltage readings seem ok on the measure/statistics display and on the grid. It is the cursor display and don't see the technical reason why the cursors should be affected by the self-calibration or by the accuracy of the analog front-end since they are just a display feature for reading plotted values.



After you note that you do not at all mean signal accuracy and you just mean cursor positions error I download your images and change image gamma so that I can clearly see your images display graticule on my monitor I can immediately see problem.

For look this problem there do not need any signal - this also keep thinking out from signal levels and focusing thinking just for cursors positions. Just enough bright display graticule and vertical (Y) cursors.

I have now seen it with my SDS1202X-E and I can confirm, there is problem in this FW 5.1.3.13

I will later try test more about it. This error do not exists with all setups. Need more investigations.

I will later continue more my tests and I will report it to Siglent after I have done test enough for sufficiently extensive documentation.

This is clearly FW error and it need repair in next possible FW where this fix can schedule. This is clearly FW bug and it need repair in next possible FW where this fix is possible to schedule.

Thank you for the good finding and the emergence of it






This error math/logic  is quite simple and clear now.
Error is that if channel offset is other than 0V and probe multiplier other than 1X there is error in Y1 and Y2 levels. Cursors Y Delta is not affected.

In FW 5.1.3.13 changelog we can see they have touched cursors.
Quote from: FW changelog
1. Cursor values not correct if probe attenuation was not set to 1X
7. Corrected cursor measurements for active Zoom with FFT
10. Fixed decode threshold levels for 10X probe attenuation selection.
Somehow they have forget one thing - unbelievable mistake. They have forget channel offset voltage correction with probe multiplier for calculate cursors vertical levels.   |O

Cursors have positions relative to display center line. If signal offset is 0 then vertical level in center line is 0V.

For cursors Y1 and Y2 voltage values relative to signal zero there need subtract vertical offset value from Y values for show correct Y1 and Y2 values. Delta Y value is not affected, it looks like always ok.

Error is now that when probe multiplier is what ever other than 1X they still subtract vertical offset value from Y1 and Y2 as it is if probe multiplier is 1X. 
Example:

1.
 if set scope for 1X probe mult, vertical V/div 10mV and user set 0mV vertical offset (vert. center).  Then cursors are set for Y2 +30mV and Y1 -30mV. Cursors display Delta Y 60mV and Y1 -30mV and Y2 +30mV. All is ok.
All is ok also if now change probe multiplier from 0.1X to 10000X.  All is ok with this error only because vertical offset is zero. Subtracting 0 from Y1 and Y2 values do not show error. As long as Vertical offset is 0 it do not show this error what is now inside FW.

2.
Continue with same settings. Keep other settings untouched but change only probe multiplier to value 10X
Now cursors Delta Y display 600mV and Y2 300mV and Y1 -300mV.  Just as told also in example 1.

Then, do not touch any other settings but adjust channel Vertical position one div up to value +100mV.
Cursor Delta Y display now 600mV and this is ok. Cursor Y2 display 290mV. Cursor Y1 display -310mV and this is wrong. Wrong because added offset is still as it is if probe multiplier is 1X.
(in this example 2. offset is 10mV if probe mult is 1X)

This error continue without exceptions with all vertical offset and probe multiplier values.
It can try also using under 1X probe multiplier and result is fun but still follow exactly this explanation about error math/logic.


Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: clippo on October 07, 2017, 11:57:49 am
I will later try test more about it. This error do not exists with all setups. Need more investigations.

The error is systematic. It only occurs in the x10 probe channel setting and with a vertical position not equal to 0 V. Somehow the cursor offset is calculated with a x1 probe factor instead of x10. I attached some more plots where you can see that with +/- 1 V vertical position the cursor value differs only by +/-100 mV instead of +/-1 V. The Y2-Y1 difference seems to be correct.

See also another cursor measurement related post:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds-1202x-e-cursor-measurement/msg1221469/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds-1202x-e-cursor-measurement/msg1221469/)

I will later continue more my tests and I will report it to Siglent after I have done test enough for sufficiently extensive documentation.
This is clearly FW error and it need repair in next possible FW where this fix can schedule. This is clearly FW bug and it need repair in next possible FW where this fix is possible to schedule.
Thank you for the good finding and the emergence of it

Thank you for support and investigative help!
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on October 07, 2017, 12:29:52 pm
It is in my previous message. Perhaps you did not see it before you write yours. ;)

This IS systematic error as told and it exist with all probe multiplier except 1X if also channel vertical offset is other than 0V.

But thank you, this error has come to light and is recognized now.
Also the error operation is now defined.

This need now urgently include to the FW development / correction queue with severe and  urgent flag.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: clippo on October 07, 2017, 01:34:19 pm
It is in my previous message. Perhaps you did not see it before you write yours. ;)
Yes, I saw your message afterwards. Basically, I confirmed what you already have analyzed and reported ;)

This IS systematic error as told and it exist with all probe multiplier except 1X if also channel vertical offset is other than 0V.
You're right, it's not only with x10 multiplier as I mistakenly mentioned above.

This need now urgently include to the FW development / correction queue with severe and  urgent flag.
I absolutely agree. Cursors are a fundamental and important scope function and this bug should be fixed with a high priority.

Are you in direct contact with the FW team and will you report this bug to them?

General question (since I'm a newbie):
Which is the best way to report such kind of issues towards the OEM - is it this forum or is there any better way?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on October 07, 2017, 02:09:14 pm


Are you in direct contact with the FW team and will you report this bug to them?

General question (since I'm a newbie):
Which is the best way to report such kind of issues towards the OEM - is it this forum or is there any better way?

I do not use direct contacts with FW development team. But if I report this kind of things to Siglent officer they go to FW tream.  I will report this directly to Shenzhen office.

Also, I know that Siglent some peoples read this forum.

When they repaired previously cursors I must say that they have done really neglectful check/test before launch new FW.  For what boss pay salary?  I think they need add some more tight reward and punishment system where the quality of work is the basis. Not only used time and how much have done but quality also in high role.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: vladi552 on October 22, 2017, 10:15:38 pm
I'm so sorry, but I have an issue with the SDS1202X-E. Need help. May be I'm something doing wrong.
I connect the probes to CH1 and CH2 and calibrate it by the internal SDS1202X-E generator. Please see the pics how it cal signal viewed on the screen. The shape is different for 1V/ and 2V/.
It's looking like device faulty. Or not?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on October 22, 2017, 10:25:58 pm
I'm so sorry, but I have an issue with the SDS1202X-E. Need help. May be I'm something doing wrong.
I connect the probes to CH1 and CH2 and calibrate it by the internal SDS1202X-E generator. Please see the pics how it cal signal viewed on the screen. The shape is different for 1V/ and 2V/.
It's looking like device faulty. Or not?
Welcome to the forum.

Yes, it's a recently identified issue and the factory team are working on it. They hope to offer a solution this coming week.
You can see others have spotted the same issue.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1202x-e-compensation-issue/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1202x-e-compensation-issue/)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: vladi552 on October 23, 2017, 09:43:56 am
Thank you for reply. I have only 12 days to create a disput on AliExpress. It's very impotant to know is there a HW or SW problem. Looking like HW.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on October 23, 2017, 10:26:58 am
Thank you for reply. I have only 12 days to create a disput on AliExpress. It's very impotant to know is there a HW or SW problem. Looking like HW.

FW can not affect/repair input capacitance differeces between vertical bands. Period.
It is pure HW feature.

There is small differences between separate vertical ranges input reactance. (when it change range there can hear relay click)

If you can not live with it, then simply just return it!

But,
 if this is borderline what you can accept then think carefully what are important things for you and what not. Every scope model have pros and cons. Every user have different needs and for some people one feature is much more important than some other feature. Same for some disadvantages.
Example in this price call there is no other stand alone scope what can do over 400ksegment/s  or what have always backround running history buffer  and together with 1M FFT or full speed mask test or 500uV/div true full resolution and full BW input.

But this input capacitance thing Siglent need solve.  This can accept in many cases  but it is still true lack of performance and it need develop better also so that worst case individuals are inside more tight tolerances.

It is possible that due to components tolerances some other individual scope have less this effect. Also PCB is component what have tolerances and there can be small variations with separate route input capacitance. There is not internal adjustment for match these 3 pathways input capacitance.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: borjam on October 23, 2017, 10:39:36 am
But this input capacitance thing Siglent need solve.  This can accept in many cases  but it is still true lack of performance and it need develop better also so that worst case individuals are inside more tight tolerances.

Maybe it can be solved changing some parameters in the front-end configuration?

There will be some tradeoff, for sure. Let's see what they come up with.

Whatever, please, Siglent dealers, make sure they understand that it's mandatory to have a serious description of the fix so that we can maintain a reasonable level of trust on the instrument. A magical "hey, it's solved" only to find a software kludge will be a bad idea I think.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on October 23, 2017, 11:14:29 am
But this input capacitance thing Siglent need solve.  This can accept in many cases  but it is still true lack of performance and it need develop better also so that worst case individuals are inside more tight tolerances.

Maybe it can be solved changing some parameters in the front-end configuration?






Yes, in hardware. In analog front end there is nothing what can do with software (for this feature). Analog front end is pure hardware. There is no software interface for change anything what affect input reactance for eliminate this "feature".  There is just some discrete components including PCB and relays.


EDIT:

Solution can find here. (Hardware modification)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1202x-e-compensation-issue/msg1333094/#msg1333094 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1202x-e-compensation-issue/msg1333094/#msg1333094)
You can find there two attachments (Instructions)

Please contact your Siglent dealer if you need any help for this! 
If you want do it yourself you need skills and tools for SMD soldering. Also work need do with good ESD practices. Do NOT yourself if you are not sure you can do it right.
Also note for front panel knobs removing.  In some units some knob may be really tight. If knob is tight do not damage encoders when you pull. Use right tools and pull just axial direction without any bending force or radial forces.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: vladi552 on October 23, 2017, 04:59:18 pm
Ok. The compensation problem is not all what we need to fix. You say 'Siglent tech support'? You need suggestions? We have it! Are you really ready?

I'm and my friends bought this SDS1202X-E devices on AliExpress in September 2017. We been hope, this generally the best devices in market 2017. We put our old Huntek DSO5202BM 200MHz and pack it to the rest... But once we received Siglent devices we stay to be very disapointed in fact. I talk not about powerful hardware but how the settings and measuring data are represented on the display. It's looking terrible. I prepare small pic and suggestions:
1. Small font for all measured values (4pcs max) on the bottom of the screen. It size anywhere near the 'viewing border'. Look to the Hantek decision. I can view it's data from up to 2 meter from the scope.
2. Why u place 'static' settings values (trigger opt, ch settings) at the 'right column' on the screen? This less useful against 'dynamic' measured values to be displayed.
3. The scope have totally unused space on the display. You kidding me? Horrible!
4. Most users share the scope screenshots. It is so difficult to explain them again and again what does it mean: Curr, Trig'd, DC1M and other original 'garbage'.
5. Menu ON/OFF so stupid realesed! If no menu, the screen must be zoomed in to occupier all after available screen area. As option 'right column' also can be hidden for zoom in.

My conclusion at the November 2017: the Siglent SDS1202X-E is a story how the powerful hardware leveled by a poorly designed interface.
Maybe I should unpack the Huntek? )
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on October 23, 2017, 05:41:38 pm
But this input capacitance thing Siglent need solve.  This can accept in many cases  but it is still true lack of performance and it need develop better also so that worst case individuals are inside more tight tolerances.

Maybe it can be solved changing some parameters in the front-end configuration?

There will be some tradeoff, for sure. Let's see what they come up with.

Whatever, please, Siglent dealers, make sure they understand that it's mandatory to have a serious description of the fix so that we can maintain a reasonable level of trust on the instrument. A magical "hey, it's solved" only to find a software kludge will be a bad idea I think.
Yes, we are expecting a detailed document of changes required. How simple or not they will be to undertake is what we are unsure of....yet.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on October 23, 2017, 06:05:51 pm
Ok. The compensation problem is not all what we need to fix. You say 'Siglent tech support'? You need suggestions? We have it! Are you really ready?

I'm and my friends bought this SDS1202X-E devices on AliExpress in September 2017. We been hope, this generally the best devices in market 2017. We put our old Huntek DSO5202BM 200MHz and pack it to the rest... But once we received Siglent devices we stay to be very disapointed in fact. I talk not about powerful hardware but how the settings and measuring data are represented on the display. It's looking terrible. I prepare small pic and suggestions:
1. Small font for all measured values (4pcs max) on the bottom of the screen. It size anywhere near the 'viewing border'. Look to the Hantek decision. I can view it's data from up to 2 meter from the scope.
2. Why u place 'static' settings values (trigger opt, ch settings) at the 'right column' on the screen? This less useful against 'dynamic' measured values to be displayed.
3. The scope have totally unused space on the display. You kidding me? Horrible!
4. Most users share the scope screenshots. It is so difficult to explain them again and again what does it mean: Curr, Trig'd, DC1M and other original 'garbage'.
5. Menu ON/OFF so stupid realesed! If no menu, the screen must be zoomed in to occupier all after available screen area. As option 'right column' also can be hidden for zoom in.

My conclusion at the November 2017: the Siglent SDS1202X-E is a story how the powerful hardware leveled by a poorly designed interface.
Maybe I should unpack the Huntek? )
You don't like the UI, fine but it's been around for some years and when necessary ALL the info needed for screenshots can be incorporated. More time spent using the X-E will reveal how.
Small example:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-siglent-sds1000x-e-oscilloscope-based-on-xilinx-zynq-7000-soc-architecture/?action=dlattach;attach=310985)
Other models that share this UI use the vacant space to the full extent already AND without sacrificing the 14 div horizontal display.
There's a bigger picture you probably aren't aware of and when these instruments are used for more complex tasks the apparently now vacant UI IS fully utilised.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/)

#1. Changes have been asked for.
#2. Will remain as it is.
#3. As #2, reasons explained above.
#4. Inexperience.
#5. When using Decode especially, it is valuable to hide menus and have the decode string accommodate that space.

There are many screenshots in threads on the forum demonstrating the UI, many are in this thread starting here and over following pages.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-siglent-sds1000x-e-oscilloscope-based-on-xilinx-zynq-7000-soc-architecture/msg1192654/#msg1192654 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-siglent-sds1000x-e-oscilloscope-based-on-xilinx-zynq-7000-soc-architecture/msg1192654/#msg1192654)

Maybe you can't adapt to the UI, that is OK but I urge you to spend some real time with it to see why it has been designed this way....and is still being improved upon.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: boggis the cat on October 23, 2017, 11:24:39 pm
The Siglent UI is pretty good.  I would like an option to make the measurements a larger font size (eyesight deteriorating with age), and also think that there could be better utilisation of the space to the right of the trace window.  The menu area below the trace window could be reduced in height to allow for a larger measurements font, and selected measurements could be 'pinned' to the right.

Some of your complaints appear to be misunderstanding what is being presented (the frequency counter in the top right is a hardware readout, useful for sanity checking if you bork up the settings).  The Hantek has some equally inscrutable symbols in the UI, and you always have to learn what the designers have decided to use.  The Rigol series of low-end 'scopes are very successful despite having an awful UI, so it seems that most people are willing to adapt to the design choices.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: borjam on October 24, 2017, 07:35:37 am
In my opinion (I own both) the Siglent SDS1202X-E has a better UI than the Rigol DS1000Z.

Some differences are a bit subtle, but in general it's more intuitive and more meaningful functions are accessed just with a quick key press. You can enable/disable measurements or persistence, for example, just pushing the "measure" or "display/persistence" key.

I still think they should pay a bit more attention to detail but as much as I've criticized Chinese software I am impressed on how they are maturing.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: lundmar on October 30, 2017, 07:20:33 pm
Does the Siglent SDS1000X/2000X series oscilloscopes support screenshot dumps via VXI/LAN?

I was looking through the programmers manual but all I could find was this sparse information:

"SCDP | SCREEN_DUMP | HARD COPY | Causes a screen dump to controller"

No mention of image format (PNG?) nor any notion that it responds with the image data to the caller.

If it does indeed support screenshot dumps via VXI/LAN I would like to know the details since I want to add screenshot support for these devices in the open source lxi-tools - https://lxi.github.io

Thanks.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on October 30, 2017, 08:25:46 pm
Does the Siglent SDS1000X/2000X series oscilloscopes support screenshot dumps via VXI/LAN?

I was looking through the programmers manual but all I could find was this sparse information:

"SCDP | SCREEN_DUMP | HARD COPY | Causes a screen dump to controller"

No mention of image format (PNG?) nor any notion that it responds with the image data to the caller.

If it does indeed support screenshot dumps via VXI/LAN I would like to know the details since I want to add screenshot support for these devices in the open source lxi-tools - https://lxi.github.io

Thanks.

Hello.
I think we can help you but we have some questions.
Would you please email us at
info@siglent.com
Thanks
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: lundmar on October 30, 2017, 10:12:12 pm
Hello.
I think we can help you but we have some questions.
Would you please email us at
info@siglent.com
Thanks

I'm not sure why such question can't be answered in an open forum like this. Anyway, I've sent you an email.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: skander36 on November 09, 2017, 12:16:34 pm
Hi ,
I have problems with the SDS-1202X-E .
1. Autosetup function - In most cases I need to press twice this key to get properly display . First pressing I getting a small scale signal , and after second press I get a full scale as it should on first time .
This is not always happen (sometimes work from fist attempt) and is not linked to warm-up period .
2.Some times (rarely) the values measured that are displayed on bottom screen , disappeared and I need to do a self calibration to make it measure again .(interesting behavior - upper hardware counter working , but the statistics are not working , in the meantime if I press All Measured Values , they appears on-screen for a 1-2 minutes with real-time readings , after which disappear replaced by dots like statistics and the four type of measurements from bottom screen... :wtf:).

I use the last firmware - V5.1.3.13
My question is if this behavior of the autosetup is present on the others scopes  or mine is defective , because I wish to use return period for online purchasing .

Thank you !
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: eurofox on November 09, 2017, 01:01:09 pm
Hi ,
I have problems with the SDS-1202X-E .
1. Autosetup function - In most cases I need to press twice this key to get properly display . First pressing I getting a small scale signal , and after second press I get a full scale like it should on first time .
This is not always happen (sometimes work from fist attempt) and is not linked to warm-up period .
2.Some times (rarely) the values measured that are displayed on bottom screen , disappeared and I need to do a self calibration to make it measure again .

I use the last firmware - V5.1.3.13
My question is if this behavior of the autosetup is present on the others scopes  or mine is defective , because I wish to use return period for online purchasing .

Thank you !

I suppose it is a bug, I have the same problem with my scope.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: skander36 on November 09, 2017, 06:56:13 pm
I atached pics to show how the waveforms looks when autosetup fail .
On third pic one can see that at freq. over 100 MHZ the scope doesn't measure . This is happen anytime,  even when autosetup is successful . This is correct ?   
THX !
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: dpenev on November 12, 2017, 10:36:19 pm
Hello,

I am trying to control remotely my SSA3021X

I send SCPI command ":MMEMory:STORe PNG,print1" to the instrument but I can not find the file (in the "File" menu of the instrument).
"Save" button is printing the screen into file properly.
 
Is the :MMEMory:STORe working properly?
Do I miss something?

Thank you.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on November 13, 2017, 06:32:06 pm
Hello,

I am trying to control remotely my SSA3021X

I send SCPI command ":MMEMory:STORe PNG,print1" to the instrument but I can not find the file (in the "File" menu of the instrument).
"Save" button is printing the screen into file properly.
 
Is the :MMEMory:STORe working properly?
Do I miss something?

Thank you.
From Tech support:
The command should the ':MMEMory:STORe PNG,print1.png' .  Need to add the file extension and the file will store to the local.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on November 13, 2017, 06:34:02 pm
Hi ,
I have problems with the SDS-1202X-E .
1. Autosetup function - In most cases I need to press twice this key to get properly display . First pressing I getting a small scale signal , and after second press I get a full scale as it should on first time .
This is not always happen (sometimes work from fist attempt) and is not linked to warm-up period .
2.Some times (rarely) the values measured that are displayed on bottom screen , disappeared and I need to do a self calibration to make it measure again .(interesting behavior - upper hardware counter working , but the statistics are not working , in the meantime if I press All Measured Values , they appears on-screen for a 1-2 minutes with real-time readings , after which disappear replaced by dots like statistics and the four type of measurements from bottom screen... :wtf:).

I use the last firmware - V5.1.3.13
My question is if this behavior of the autosetup is present on the others scopes  or mine is defective , because I wish to use return period for online purchasing .

Thank you !
This ^ is being looked at in greater depth. Thanks for bring it to Siglents attention.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: lundmar on November 13, 2017, 06:59:02 pm
From Tech support:
The command should the ':MMEMory:STORe PNG,print1.png' .  Need to add the file extension and the file will store to the local.

Additionally, is there an undocumented command to retrieve the file remotely via SCPI/LAN?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: skander36 on November 14, 2017, 08:47:54 am

This ^ is being looked at in greater depth. Thanks for bring it to Siglents attention.
[/quote]
Thanks !
They will sending me a new mainboard as soon as in Hamburg will arrive the new boards (next month).
It seems that Siglent really care about customers .  :-+
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: evgen.05 on November 14, 2017, 02:51:01 pm
Hi ,
I have problems with the SDS-1202X-E .
1. Autosetup function - In most cases I need to press twice this key to get properly display . First pressing I getting a small scale signal , and after second press I get a full scale as it should on first time .
This is not always happen (sometimes work from fist attempt) and is not linked to warm-up period .
2.Some times (rarely) the values measured that are displayed on bottom screen , disappeared and I need to do a self calibration to make it measure again .(interesting behavior - upper hardware counter working , but the statistics are not working , in the meantime if I press All Measured Values , they appears on-screen for a 1-2 minutes with real-time readings , after which disappear replaced by dots like statistics and the four type of measurements from bottom screen... :wtf:).

I use the last firmware - V5.1.3.13
My question is if this behavior of the autosetup is present on the others scopes  or mine is defective , because I wish to use return period for online purchasing .

Thank you !
I've got same behavior with autosetup button. This happens on small amplitude sine wave. On square autosetup works fine.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: skander36 on November 14, 2017, 03:11:06 pm
Mine has autosetup fails even on 9 V amplitude signals  sinus, square or triangular .
If there are systematic failures I think you must contact your supplier for a solution .
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: evgen.05 on November 14, 2017, 04:00:38 pm
Mine has autosetup fails even on 9 V amplitude signals  sinus, square or triangular .
If there are systematic failures I think you must contact your supplier for a solution .
I think it's a firmware bug. And I bought oscilloscope a long time ago, seller will not responding for this.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: skander36 on November 14, 2017, 06:10:42 pm
SDS1202X-E was launched in April this year and is having 3 years waranty .
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: evgen.05 on November 14, 2017, 06:22:59 pm
SDS1202X-E was launched in April this year and is having 3 years waranty .
I bought it from ali.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: DazA1 on November 29, 2017, 11:04:29 pm
@tautech

In October I asked about the issues of the SHS1062 and you suggested to make a list.

I have written them up in the attached pdf.

If anyone has issues that are not in the pdf please state them here and i will add them.

I hope Siglent uses this to fix their firmware as it lets down an otherwise good product.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: mimmus78 on December 07, 2017, 08:53:52 am
Anyone got response from:

info@siglent.com

or

support@siglent.com

?

I'm asking help for my SPD3303s that has a black screen since few days but I got no reply from them.

Should I toss 500 EUR power supply for a logic board problem?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 07, 2017, 09:31:00 am
Anyone got response from:

info@siglent.com

or

support@siglent.com

?

I'm asking help for my SPD3303s that has a black screen since few days but I got no reply from them.

Should I toss 500 EUR power supply for a logic board problem?
Contact Hamburg Siglent:
info-eu@siglent.com
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Orange on December 07, 2017, 09:35:31 am
Anyone got response from:

info@siglent.com

or

support@siglent.com

?

I'm asking help for my SPD3303s that has a black screen since few days but I got no reply from them.

Should I toss 500 EUR power supply for a logic board problem?
Is there no warranty of 3 years on this thing ?.....
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: mimmus78 on December 07, 2017, 10:18:53 am
Anyone got response from:

info@siglent.com

or

support@siglent.com

?

I'm asking help for my SPD3303s that has a black screen since few days but I got no reply from them.

Should I toss 500 EUR power supply for a logic board problem?
Is there no warranty of 3 years on this thing ?.....
I got it something like 5 years ago ...
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: mimmus78 on December 07, 2017, 10:29:37 am
Anyone got response from:

info@siglent.com

or

support@siglent.com

?

I'm asking help for my SPD3303s that has a black screen since few days but I got no reply from them.

Should I toss 500 EUR power supply for a logic board problem?
Contact Hamburg Siglent:
info-eu@siglent.com
Fourth email sent.

Fingers crossed!
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on December 11, 2017, 03:31:26 pm
Anyone got response from:

info@siglent.com

or

support@siglent.com

?

I'm asking help for my SPD3303s that has a black screen since few days but I got no reply from them.

Should I toss 500 EUR power supply for a logic board problem?
Contact Hamburg Siglent:
info-eu@siglent.com
Fourth email sent.

Fingers crossed!

Did you receive a response from someone at Siglent - EU?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: mimmus78 on December 11, 2017, 03:50:06 pm
Yes, I was asked to do some checks ...
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: DazA1 on December 12, 2017, 12:33:54 pm
Can anyone tell me if Siglent have been made aware of my SHS1062 issues pdf i posted (Nov 30th).

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on December 12, 2017, 03:36:14 pm
Can anyone tell me if Siglent have been made aware of my SHS1062 issues pdf i posted (Nov 30th).

Would you please contact me directly at
Steve.Barfield@Siglent.com
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: vladi552 on December 12, 2017, 04:06:14 pm
Steve, I'm sorry to contact you here, but it's very important for me. Please, let me know what you think about my suggestions to rearrange display information on X-E devices (post # 913).
Recently I work with two channels/signals and found that 4 automatic measurements shared between this two channals therefore only 2 measured values available for 1 channel to display. It's extremely low. Also font size is a bit small.
It's looking like good idea to place all auto measurements (up to 8 !!! or more) to the 'right column' of display (as suggested) with option to bigger font size.
Yes, it's very difficult work but... so wanted... Is there any hope?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on December 12, 2017, 06:39:54 pm
Steve, I'm sorry to contact you here, but it's very important for me. Please, let me know what you think about my suggestions to rearrange display information on X-E devices (post # 913).
Recently I work with two channels/signals and found that 4 automatic measurements shared between this two channals therefore only 2 measured values available for 1 channel to display. It's extremely low. Also font size is a bit small.
It's looking like good idea to place all auto measurements (up to 8 !!! or more) to the 'right column' of display (as suggested) with option to bigger font size.
Yes, it's very difficult work but... so wanted... Is there any hope?

Thank you, vladi552

Yes, we have forwarded your ideas to the factory.

Thanks again
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 12, 2017, 06:46:20 pm
Can anyone tell me if Siglent have been made aware of my SHS1062 issues pdf i posted (Nov 30th).
Yes, shot through to the factory at least a week ago.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: kvd on December 13, 2017, 08:12:35 pm
On the SDS1202X-E for each channel the input impedance is shown in yellow or purple just above the vertical scale indication. This is rather useless since this scope can only use a 1M impedance. I'd rather see an indication of the probe attenuation.

In the various versions of the manual for this scope the text for this part of the screen has changed, but as far as I can see, every single one is wrong for the SDS1202X-E (I can't test for the other scopes in the 1000 series). Every version of the manual mentions that the scope attenuation is displayed on the screen, but I cannot find it  :o

Siglent: can the display of the input impedance be swapped for the probe attenuation?


Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 13, 2017, 09:34:52 pm
On the SDS1202X-E for each channel the input impedance is shown in yellow or purple just above the vertical scale indication. This is rather useless since this scope can only use a 1M impedance. I'd rather see an indication of the probe attenuation.

Siglent: can the display of the input impedance be swapped for the probe attenuation?
This could be possible for the 2ch X-E as the ch indicators are only two and there is enough space then to make the indicator block larger and show probe attenuation also.
The GUI in the X-E range is common to 2kX, 1kX and 1kX-E models and only 1202X-E and 1kX models are two channel and have this room in the indicator bar for additions/changes.

Quote
Every version of the manual mentions that the scope attenuation is displayed on the screen, but I cannot find it
When you tap the channel activate/select button, the menu for that channel is shown at the foot of the display and the channel attenuation setting can be clearly seen, this is common to all Siglent DSO's.

Be sure to not hide the bottom menu with the button by the power switch.  ;)

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on December 13, 2017, 09:47:06 pm
On the SDS1202X-E for each channel the input impedance is shown in yellow or purple just above the vertical scale indication. This is rather useless since this scope can only use a 1M impedance. I'd rather see an indication of the probe attenuation.

In the various versions of the manual for this scope the text for this part of the screen has changed, but as far as I can see, every single one is wrong for the SDS1202X-E (I can't test for the other scopes in the 1000 series). Every version of the manual mentions that the scope attenuation is displayed on the screen, but I cannot find it  :o

Siglent: can the display of the input impedance be swapped for the probe attenuation?


Later firmware solved this (switchable input impedance selection) problem so you might make certain that you have the latest FW for the SDS1202X-E. You can download it from our various Siglent websites, including here:
https://www.siglentamerica.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-oscilloscopes/#sds1000x-e-series (https://www.siglentamerica.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-oscilloscopes/#sds1000x-e-series)


Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: kvd on December 13, 2017, 10:35:28 pm
Maybe I should have made myself more clear:

The actual probe attenuation is not visible in the main display. Of course I know that you can find the attenuation in the channel menu, but I'd prefer it to be permanently visible on the main screen. Permanently visible instead of the input impedance, which is always 1M anyways.

See the attached pictures:

actual: this is the actual screen as it is now with the latest firmware. It shows impedance but not attenuation
wish: this is a copy from one of the sds1000 manuals, where it shows the attenuation in the channel display, and also the impedance
text: this is the text from the latest manual which seems to apply to the sds1202x-e

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 13, 2017, 10:56:05 pm
Maybe I should have made myself more clear:

The actual probe attenuation is not visible in the main display. Of course I know that you can find the attenuation in .....
You are quite clear.....to me anyway.

Not at all an unreasonable request so I'll shoot it through to Tech support and see if Siglent will add it in FW.
Of course large attenuation factors will be hard to find room to display on the ch tab and it may be a reason why it is not implemented in the channel tab.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: kcbrown on December 13, 2017, 11:16:03 pm
Maybe I should have made myself more clear:

The actual probe attenuation is not visible in the main display. Of course I know that you can find the attenuation in .....
You are quite clear.....to me anyway.

Not at all an unreasonable request so I'll shoot it through to Tech support and see if Siglent will add it in FW.
Of course large attenuation factors will be hard to find room to display on the ch tab and it may be a reason why it is not implemented in the channel tab.
Maybe display the attenuation in dB?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: skander36 on December 15, 2017, 08:05:23 am
This ^ is being looked at in greater depth. Thanks for bring it to Siglents attention.
Thanks !
They will sending me a new mainboard as soon as in Hamburg will arrive the new boards (next month).
It seems that Siglent really care about customers .  :-+

Yesterday I received the new mainboard (a green one instead of red) that greatly improve the accuracy of the autosetup function from 30% to  75-80 % success .
The 2 capacitors missing (compensation issue) was already soldered in place .
Now the using experience of this scope is greatly improved .
The communication with Siglent Europe support (Michael Zeng)  was very pleasant and helpfull .

ERRATA - After self calibration I was able to obtain a very good rate of succes , 98-99% , so in my opinion the problem is completely solved . It was just a defective main board .
I was not doing of self cal. initially because it was told me that the board is tested and calibrated which was seem to be . But it seem that is a good idea to do a calibration after install on a new bench .
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: borjam on December 15, 2017, 10:28:05 am
Maybe display the attenuation in dB?
That would be very counterintuitive. The x1, x10 thing (when speaking of probes) has now become second nature for all of us I guess.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: dpenev on January 01, 2018, 08:26:38 pm
Hello,

SDG6022X (it may affect older families as well?)
I am not sure if this was reported already
 
- output1 = ch1 + ch2
- ch2 adjust frequency but this doesn't affect the output signal
- output 1 off and then on => all is OK now.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: df8jb on January 04, 2018, 06:00:02 am
Hello all,

I'm Klaus from Germany and I am new to this forum.
I've only got my 1202X-E from Batronix for a week now and there seems to be an odd behaviour when positioning the zero lines up and down the screen.
The problem is most obvious on the zero center line:

CH1 and CH2 set to 500uV/div, Coupling = GND, Trigger = Auto (obviously).

CH2 set to zero by pressing position knob
CH2 switched off
CH1 zeroed by pressing position knob:
CH1 yellow line matches position of yellow arrow

CH2 switched on:
CH1 line jumps down 200uV leaving the arrow in place.

CH2 switched off again:
CH1 jumps back to correct position

There are random offsets jumps between lines and arrows (both channels)  when positioning manually as well, most noticeable on the lower part of the screen.
With settings of 1mV/div and 2mV/div offsets are less, and not noticeable with all other higher settings.

Seems to be a problem with analog front end amp compensation/linearity.
Can anybody see a similar behaviour on their scope or is it only mine doing this?

Regards, Klaus
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Performa01 on January 04, 2018, 06:57:26 am
I have one of the earliest SDS1202X-E, HW Version 0c-01

I was not able to replicate your observation.

I have also tried to position CH1 at the bottom of the screen (-4 div) and there is indeed an additional offset error of some -200µV, even when the input coupling is set to GND. But this does not change at all whether CH2 is turned on or off.

Even with DC coupling for CH1, I could not spot any difference in position when turning CH2 on or off.

You should be prepared to see minor differences between single/dual channel use, especially at fast timebases, because the sample rate doubles in single channel mode. But at 500µs/div this could hardly have an impact.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on January 04, 2018, 07:12:16 am
Hello all,

I'm Klaus from Germany and I am new to this forum.
I've only got my 1202X-E from Batronix for a week now and there seems to be an odd behaviour when positioning the zero lines up and down the screen.
The problem is most obvious on the zero center line:

CH1 and CH2 set to 500uV/div, Coupling = GND, Trigger = Auto (obviously).

CH2 set to zero by pressing position knob
CH2 switched off
CH1 zeroed by pressing position knob:
CH1 yellow line matches position of yellow arrow

CH2 switched on:
CH1 line jumps down 200uV leaving the arrow in place.

CH2 switched off again:
CH1 jumps back to correct position

There are random offsets jumps between lines and arrows (both channels)  when positioning manually as well, most noticeable on the lower part of the screen.
With settings of 1mV/div and 2mV/div offsets are less, and not noticeable with all other higher settings.

Seems to be a problem with analog front end amp compensation/linearity.
Can anybody see a similar behaviour on their scope or is it only mine doing this?

Regards, Klaus
Please check the System status reports firmware version V5.1.3.13

If not it can be downloaded here:
http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=3932&tid=15 (http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=3932&tid=15)

Please run the internal Self Cal even if the above version is installed and/or after installing V5.1.3.13
Ensure no probes are connected while Self Cal is in progress.

Please report your progress here after checking all of the above.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: df8jb on January 04, 2018, 01:39:36 pm
Thanks for answering!

I'm aware I have to accept minor deviations when changing ranges, but I think the arrow should go with the trace.
(on my old CR scopes there are trimpots for each channel to compensate for component aging and such things)

I forgot to mention:
before posting I checked the FW version: 5.1.3.13 and did
Self Cal as well - no joy.

Hardware Version is 0c-01
Serial# is SDS1EBAQ1R3154
(Calibrating the inputs to the probes works ok)

What bothers me most is the effect of CH2 when activated on the CH1-offset (when at center zero div line).
See the screen shots.

Klaus
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Performa01 on January 04, 2018, 02:40:31 pm
I'm aware I have to accept minor deviations when changing ranges, but I think the arrow should go with the trace.
(on my old CR scopes there are trimpots for each channel to compensate for component aging and such things)

The arrow shows the nominal position and any deviation from that is just the offset error. Of course we would like it to be zero, but all equipment have offset errors, particularly DSOs with such a high sensitivity of 500µV/div like the SDS1202X-E.

For ranges 500µV and 1mV per division, the datasheet specifies the offset error as follows:

±(1% x Offset + 1.5% x 8 x div + 500µV)

The vertical position control actually adds an internal offset to the channel in order to change the trace position. This way, a DC offset of the signal can be cancelled out for instance.

If the trace is centered on the screen (position 0, equivalent to internal offset 0), only the second term applies: 1.5% x 8 x div + 500µV, where div is the channel gain setting. So for 500µV/div we get:

1.5% x 8 x 500µV + 500µV = 1.5% x 4mV + 500µV = 60µV + 500µV = 560µV.

This means, up to 560µV of deviation would still be in spec with the trace at position 0, i.e. the center position.

If the position control is used to apply an internal offset, thus changing the trace position, the first term of the specification comes into effect as well: 1% x Offset. So if we position the trace at the bottom of the screen, the offset is 4 divisions or 4 x 500µV = 2mV and an additional error of 20µV (1% of 2mV) has to be added to the permissible offset error, resulting in a total of ±580µV.

Yes, analog scopes have internal trimmers – and they used to be expensive, partly because someone at the factory had to adjust all these trimmers. These adjustments were not completely stable with time and temperature either. And then, most analog scopes had a maximum sensitivity of 5mV/div and could only go down to 1mV/div with an additional 5x multiplier, which introduced additional errors – just look at the specifications of your analog scope. You just don’t see it so clearly during practical use, because there is usually no indicator (arrow) where the trace should be on an analog scope.

Quote
I forgot to mention:
before posting I checked the FW version: 5.1.3.13 and did
Self Cal as well - no joy.

Why was self-cal no joy?

Quote
What bothers me most is the effect of CH2 when activated on the CH1-offset (when at center zero div line).
See the screen shots.

Yes, with these symptoms, your scope has to be faulty. Just send the unit back for replacement.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EDIT: I thought I’d add some more information on the offset error specification.

Some might ask why that first term in the formula

±(1% x Offset + 1.5% x 8 x div + 500µV)

even exists, when it just added negligible 20µV to the 560µV of the 2nd term in the example calculation.

The answer is that the offset range is much wider than just the ±4 divisions of the screen. It is actually up to ±2V (for the gain ranges discussed here, i.e. 500uV and 1mv/div) and if this is used to cancel out a DC offset of the signal, the error margin becomes significant.

Consider an offset of 500mV, then the additional error could be as much as 5mV (1% of 500mV) and the trace might not even be within the visible screen area anymore.

Thankfully, the actual accuracy is much higher than that. See the screenshot below, where an accurate 500mV DC voltage is fed into channel 1 and a -500mV has been set on that channel.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=384243)
SDS1202X-E_Offset_500mV_500uV

20MHz bandwidth limit and 16x average acquisition mode has been used in order to suppress the noise from the scope and the DC calibrator.

As can be seen, the trace is right at the center of the screen and all the automatic measurements are pretty much spot-on. Since this is pure DC, Max, Top, Mean and RMS measurements should all give identical results, and they certainly do. The most “inaccurate” results are from the mean and RMS measurements, and they are off by 60µV, which is only 0.012% of the total input (and also nominal offset) voltage!
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on January 04, 2018, 03:54:15 pm
I forgot to mention:
before posting I checked the FW version: 5.1.3.13 and did
Self Cal as well - no joy.

Hardware Version is 0c-01
Serial# is SDS1EBAQ1R3154
(Calibrating the inputs to the probes works ok)

What bothers me most is the effect of CH2 when activated on the CH1-offset (when at center zero div line).
Performa01 is very experienced with these scopes so if the internal Self Cal has been properly run and the channel offsets are not corrected then yes there is a problem.
But, please do one more Self Cal with the DSO having been ON for some time. IIRC the manual calls for ~20 mins before Self Cal. If the trace offsets are not fixed then contact Siglent in Hamburg directly and point them to these EEVblog posts.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: df8jb on January 04, 2018, 05:27:21 pm
Quote
Why was self-cal no joy?

meaning
the result of Self Cal didn't solve the problem…

-----------

I did Self Cal again, this time IMMEDIATELY after a power on reboot of the warmed up scope, without having done anything else.
Now the influence of CH2 on CH1 is completely gone.
The first time I did Self Cal the scope had been running for abt 2 hours
with me testing a lot until I saw the strange behaviour.
Maybe something was left behind that caused Self Cal to work incorrectly…?

Anyway, I'm happy with the scope now, minor offsets at vertical screen borders are ok,
thanks to Performa01's  comprehensible explanations.

Again thanks to all of you,

regards Klaus

--
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on January 04, 2018, 05:35:57 pm
Quote
Why was self-cal no joy?

meaning
the result of Self Cal didn't solve the problem…

-----------

I did Self Cal again, this time IMMEDIATELY after a power on reboot of the warmed up scope, without having done anything else.
Now the influence of CH2 on CH1 is completely gone.
The first time I did Self Cal the scope had been running for abt 2 hours
with me testing a lot until I saw the strange behaviour.
Maybe something was left behind that caused Self Cal to work incorrectly…?

Anyway, I'm happy with the scope now, minor offsets at vertical screen borders are ok,
thanks to Performa01's  comprehensible explanations.

Again thanks to all of you,

regards Klaus

--
Good result.  :-+

This is maybe something we need watch for so to understand better.
Maybe Default setup is required before Self Cal to ensure the Self Cal is completed correctly.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Performa01 on January 04, 2018, 07:45:32 pm
... added some more info on the offset error specification to my reply #960.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Electro Detective on January 05, 2018, 05:02:03 am
There's always the Hardwear Reset on these if all else fails and try avoid the nuthouse   |O

I prefer to use it BEFORE doing updates in case the DSO isn't quite right

www.siglentamerica.com/operating-tips/ (http://www.siglentamerica.com/operating-tips/)

www.siglentamerica.com/operating-tips/sds1000xx-series/ (http://www.siglentamerica.com/operating-tips/sds1000xx-series/)


"Oscilloscope Hardware Reset:  October 25, 2017

In some extreme hardware errors, the oscilloscope may become unresponsive or “hang” during the boot sequence.

If your oscilloscope is frozen, will not boot, or appears to be unresponsive, you can attempt a hardware reset by following these instructions:

1. Disconnect all USB, LAN, and input cables. Leave the power cord connected.

2. Power cycle the instrument by pressing the power button.

3. Immediately begin pressing the MATH button repeatedly at a rate of 2 to 3 times a second while the instrument boots up.

4. If the instrument does not boot up properly, retry steps 2 through 4.

NOTE: If you continue to have problems, contact your nearest SIGLENT office for service." 
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: toomuchesr on January 13, 2018, 03:25:01 pm
Hi!

Will the SDS1104X-E have LXI in the future? As far as I can tell there is currently only VXI11 supported.

BR
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: lundmar on January 13, 2018, 05:15:39 pm
Hi!

Will the SDS1104X-E have LXI in the future? As far as I can tell there is currently only VXI11 supported.

BR

It is not LXI certified but it is however fully LXI compatible so I don't think you are missing anything except the LXI sticker.

I've recently tested the SDS1204X-E with lxi-tools and I can say it features the fastest LXI interfaces that I have seen so far (SCPI/RAW, SCPI/VXI11).

I've written about it here (includes benchmark results etc.):
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/open-source-lxi-tools-and-liblxi-v1-0-released-for-gnulinux/msg1394796/#msg1394796 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/open-source-lxi-tools-and-liblxi-v1-0-released-for-gnulinux/msg1394796/#msg1394796)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: mojoe on January 14, 2018, 02:20:11 am
I bought two SPD3303X-E power supplies when they first came out. Because of the loose fitting banana jacks, I have been using some spade-to-banana adapters. This works, but makes it difficult to place the power supply on a shelf or table - the adapters hang downward.

I thought that I read elsewhere on the forum, that later supplies had tighter fitting banana jacks. Is it possible to have two sets of the better fitting jacks sent to me, so I can replace them myself?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on January 14, 2018, 02:33:42 am
I bought two SPD3303X-E power supplies when they first came out. Because of the loose fitting banana jacks, I have been using some spade-to-banana adapters. This works, but makes it difficult to place the power supply on a shelf or table - the adapters hang downward.

I thought that I read elsewhere on the forum, that later supplies had tighter fitting banana jacks. Is it possible to have two sets of the better fitting jacks sent to me, so I can replace them myself?

Thanks.
We'll see if it's possible.
Emails sent.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: pantelei4 on January 14, 2018, 08:36:26 am
A year has passed since my report on Siglent SHS806.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg1105079/?PHPSESSID=d6ud1u86e6cle7t4il76qdfgop#msg1105079 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg1105079/?PHPSESSID=d6ud1u86e6cle7t4il76qdfgop#msg1105079)
What is this shitty company, no answers, no firmware?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: StillTrying on January 15, 2018, 01:54:30 am
"A year has passed since my report on Siglent SHS806."

I know the feeling, I think you have to be lucky and get something that they don't give up on.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: DazA1 on January 15, 2018, 11:47:31 am
"A year has passed since my report on Siglent SHS806."

I have had the same frustration with Siglent regarding these scopes i even wrote up my problems in a pdf (see post #934).

Apparently Siglent see the handheld scope market as a growing area and are looking to produce more handheld products in the future.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: toomuchesr on January 15, 2018, 01:29:10 pm
I've recently tested the SDS1204X-E with lxi-tools and I can say it features the fastest LXI interfaces that I have seen so far (SCPI/RAW, SCPI/VXI11).

I've written about it here (includes benchmark results etc.):
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/open-source-lxi-tools-and-liblxi-v1-0-released-for-gnulinux/msg1394796/#msg1394796 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/open-source-lxi-tools-and-liblxi-v1-0-released-for-gnulinux/msg1394796/#msg1394796)

Thanks a lot, will have a look!

BR
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on January 16, 2018, 05:11:37 pm
I bought two SPD3303X-E power supplies when they first came out. Because of the loose fitting banana jacks, I have been using some spade-to-banana adapters. This works, but makes it difficult to place the power supply on a shelf or table - the adapters hang downward.

I thought that I read elsewhere on the forum, that later supplies had tighter fitting banana jacks. Is it possible to have two sets of the better fitting jacks sent to me, so I can replace them myself?

Thanks.

Hello, Mojoe.
I sent you a PM but haven't seen it go through yet.
Either way, please contact us at
info@Siglent.com
and we will get you the later-version banana jacks.
Thanks
Steve
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on January 16, 2018, 05:50:26 pm
A year has passed since my report on Siglent SHS806.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg1105079/?PHPSESSID=d6ud1u86e6cle7t4il76qdfgop#msg1105079 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg1105079/?PHPSESSID=d6ud1u86e6cle7t4il76qdfgop#msg1105079)
 

I'm sorry for your issues on the SHS806.

As a note, Siglent does not monitor eevBlog as an official vehicle in contacting us. That is to say, some of us do "take a look at eevBlog" when we have a chance and we try to respond to many questions but if one has an issue or problem with a Siglent product it is best to contact Siglent directly. Also, 2-3 Siglent distributors do an an excellent job of answering many customer questions. We have not asked them to do this, but all of us certainly appreciate the time they spend answering questions.

When this thread was started in 2014 by a Siglent factory applications engineer, he may have been checking the thread every day at that time.  He has not been with us for several years now so I'm not sure.

In North America, one can always contact us at
info@Siglent.com
If you are not in North America we will still do our best to assist you or pass it on to the Siglent people that are responsible for your area of the world.

In regards to the SHS806 handheld scope, I have discussed the SHS800 family with the factory. Although this is not an 'official Siglent response' I can say that I doubt there will be many (if any) FW updates to the SHS scopes, at least in the near term. The reason is that these scopes are becoming more and more difficult to build because of obsoleted parts, etc. We do believe the handheld oscilloscope market is an important one so I do not expect Siglent to walk away from the battery scope market any time soon.

I will forward this to our head of engineering. If there is any update that I can provide then I will certainly do so.
Thanks
Steve Barfield
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: pantelei4 on January 16, 2018, 08:18:45 pm
In regards to the SHS806 handheld scope, I have discussed the SHS800 family with the factory. Although this is not an 'official Siglent response' I can say that I doubt there will be many (if any) FW updates to the SHS scopes, at least in the near term. The reason is that these scopes are becoming more and more difficult to build because of obsoleted parts, etc. We do believe the handheld oscilloscope market is an important one so I do not expect Siglent to walk away from the battery scope market any time soon.
Thank you for your honest answer.
Such serious bugs should have been fixed soon after the appearance of the SHS series. Several years have passed, nothing has been done, of course the device is obsolete, buy a new model. No, if Siglent does not correct his mistakes I will no longer buy their instruments and I will not advise anyone to do this.  :--
I'm such a kind person.  >:D
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on January 16, 2018, 08:31:13 pm
In regards to the SHS806 handheld scope, I have discussed the SHS800 family with the factory. Although this is not an 'official Siglent response' I can say that I doubt there will be many (if any) FW updates to the SHS scopes, at least in the near term. The reason is that these scopes are becoming more and more difficult to build because of obsoleted parts, etc. We do believe the handheld oscilloscope market is an important one so I do not expect Siglent to walk away from the battery scope market any time soon.
Thank you for your honest answer.
Such serious bugs should have been fixed soon after the appearance of the SHS series. Several years have passed, nothing has been done, of course the device is obsolete, buy a new model. No, if Siglent does not correct his mistakes I will no longer buy their instruments and I will not advise anyone to do this.  :--
I'm such a kind person.  >:D
You can be very sure I did report your calls for improvements to functionality to Siglent.
They still offer the SHS in two series (800 & 1k) that share very similar firmware and while they are not big sellers they do continue to sell.
We can only ask again when improvements you and others have asked for will be implemented. The current version 3.01.02.02R7 is from last March so we'd hope a review is due soon. I'll ask.

Reply from Siglent:
We can not confirm the exact time, but we have started to fix the SHS bugs.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: mojoe on January 16, 2018, 10:17:20 pm
I would also be very interested in what problems there are with these handheld scopes. I was considering buying one of the SHS1000 series (I want the isolated inputs), later in the year. If these scopes are becoming obsolete, perhaps I should look at another brand, unless Siglent has a replacement coming out in the near future.

Edit: I just watched the old videos, showing the triggering problem on the SHS800 series. Does the SHS1000 series also have this problem?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on January 17, 2018, 06:54:21 am
I would also be very interested in what problems there are with these handheld scopes. I was considering buying one of the SHS1000 series (I want the isolated inputs), later in the year. If these scopes are becoming obsolete, perhaps I should look at another brand, unless Siglent has a replacement coming out in the near future.

Edit: I just watched the old videos, showing the triggering problem on the SHS800 series. Does the SHS1000 series also have this problem?
What triggering problem exactly ?
Please describe it and I'll see if it's a problem with my SHS810.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: mojoe on January 17, 2018, 08:07:38 am
The problem pantelei4  reported before, with his videos.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg1105079/?PHPSESSID=d6ud1u86e6cle7t4il76qdfgop#msg1105079 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg1105079/?PHPSESSID=d6ud1u86e6cle7t4il76qdfgop#msg1105079)

Does the SHS1000 series do this? Considering there was a post saying that both the 800 and 1000 series use the same firmware, I'd guess the answer is yes.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: pantelei4 on January 17, 2018, 08:46:10 am
The problem pantelei4  reported before, with his videos.
Yes, it does not scale the captured waveform in the normal trigger mode. Scale the already captured waveform horizontally and vertically only if you press the stop. No other oscilloscope works so stupidly. |O
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: pantelei4 on January 17, 2018, 09:17:02 am
I was considering buying one of the SHS1000 series (I want the isolated inputs), later in the year.
If I were you, I was considering Tektronix or Fluke, than spending a lot of money on Siglent's misunderstanding. :horse:
SHS806 was purchased only for a small price $ 400 for a portable device with a  recorder. By the way, the TrendPlot also works with oddities.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on January 17, 2018, 09:34:02 am
The problem pantelei4  reported before, with his videos.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg1105079/?PHPSESSID=d6ud1u86e6cle7t4il76qdfgop#msg1105079 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg1105079/?PHPSESSID=d6ud1u86e6cle7t4il76qdfgop#msg1105079)

Does the SHS1000 series do this? Considering there was a post saying that both the 800 and 1000 series use the same firmware, I'd guess the answer is yes.
As I've reported it ages ago, the Normal triggering issues should be dealt to in the forthcoming firmware.

I'm not privy to what will be fixed so all I can do is ask which bugs will be addressed and try to get some info for you guys.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on January 17, 2018, 03:47:07 pm
Good news!

Our VP of Engineering has informed me overnight that a software engineer is currently working on new FW to fix the most serious outstanding issues. I believe we will be releasing that in the next several months.

After that, his comment was that we will continue to update the SHS firmware at least every six months (will try to do more often) if we continue to have any outstanding issues.

As I said yesterday, we still have plans to stay in the battery-powered scope market for the long term.

Let me close by saying that I believe we have let the SHS family of scopes sit on a back burner for a while and have not done our best job in supporting them and keeping them up to date. We now do have a renewed commitment to the line. We here in the USA have asked for some other improvements and those will all be coming, in one form or another.

If you would like to contact us directly please feel free to do so at
info@Siglent.com

Thank you.


Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on February 04, 2018, 09:54:07 am
SDG5000 series AWG firmware.

Version: v5.01.01.15R5
http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4059&tid=15 (http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4059&tid=15)
1.25 Mb

Changelog
1.Optimized PLL configuration
2.Fixed several bugs
a.Enabling Mod on CH2 may disable Burst on CH1
b.Duty cycle error on Square wave with very long period
c.SCPI command cannot adjust the phase difference between two synchronized units
d.Manual trigger cannot trigger both channels simultaneously
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: evgen.05 on February 07, 2018, 09:17:52 am
New firmware for SDS 1202x-e http://old.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS1002X-E_5.1.3.17R1_EN.zip (http://old.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS1002X-E_5.1.3.17R1_EN.zip)
Fixed autosetup issue
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: skander36 on February 07, 2018, 02:32:09 pm
New firmware for SDS 1202x-e http://old.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS1002X-E_5.1.3.17R1_EN.zip (http://old.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS1002X-E_5.1.3.17R1_EN.zip)
Fixed autosetup issue
Wow ! Let's try ...
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: borjam on February 07, 2018, 02:34:28 pm
New firmware for SDS 1202x-e http://old.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS1002X-E_5.1.3.17R1_EN.zip (http://old.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS1002X-E_5.1.3.17R1_EN.zip)
Fixed autosetup issue
Wow ! Let's try ...

Is that firmware really for the SDS1202X-E? It says SDS1002X-E.




Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: lundmar on February 07, 2018, 02:39:06 pm
New firmware for SDS 1202x-e http://old.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS1002X-E_5.1.3.17R1_EN.zip (http://old.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS1002X-E_5.1.3.17R1_EN.zip)
Fixed autosetup issue
Wow ! Let's try ...

Is that firmware really for the SDS1202X-E? It says SDS1002X-E.

It seems so.

1002 is simply for the 1000 series 2 channel scopes and 1004 is for the 1000 series 4 channel scopes.

https://www.siglentamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2018/02/SDS1004X-E_7.6.1.20_EN.zip (https://www.siglentamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2018/02/SDS1004X-E_7.6.1.20_EN.zip)

I love how the scope says "Firmware decompressed. Please restart and wait.."

Instead of e.g. "Firmware installed. Please restart..."

This is a clear indication that this instrument is made by engineers for engineers - the way we like it :)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: skander36 on February 07, 2018, 03:20:14 pm
It seem to me that is not  specifically  for 1202X-E .  I'll wait for more info about .
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on February 07, 2018, 04:00:25 pm
New firmware for SDS 1202x-e http://old.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS1002X-E_5.1.3.17R1_EN.zip (http://old.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS1002X-E_5.1.3.17R1_EN.zip)
Fixed autosetup issue
Wow ! Let's try ...

Is that firmware really for the SDS1202X-E? It says SDS1002X-E.

AFAIK It is.  But please wait real confirmation. I think it is not so hurry to update just exactly now.
I will soon test it with my demo SDS1202X-E

All models:

SDS1004X-E FW's:
SDS1074X-E   70MHz 4 Channel
SDS1104X-E 100MHz 4 Channel
SDS1204X-E 200MHz 4 Channel

SDS1002X-E FW's:
SDS1072X-E   70MHz 2 Channel
SDS1102X-E 100MHz 2 Channel
SDS1202X-E 200MHz 2 Channel

Bolded are normal models in western markets.

EDIT/ADD:
Tested with SDS1202X-E version xxxx.13
Updated using SDS1002X-E_5.1.3.17R1_EN.zip

Remember read instructions pdf included in .ZIP


Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Performa01 on February 07, 2018, 04:14:50 pm
SDS1000X-E_5.1.3.17R1 (zip archive SDS1002X-E_5.1.3.17R1) is for SDS1202X-E.
SDS1004X-E_7.6.1.20 is for SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E.

Just look at the version numbers when in doubt.

All SDS1202X-E firmware has a 5 as first digit in the version number.
For the 4 channel models SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E with all their additional features however, the first digit is a 7.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rfspezi on February 07, 2018, 06:21:28 pm
I got a SDS1202X scope running 1.1.2.15 R10 firmware version.
Is the following firmware update the right one for my scope?
"SDS1000X/X+ Current Version: v1.1.1.2.15R1 | Published?01-10-2018 NEW"

This SDS1000... vs. SDS1202... naming really confuses me.  ???
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on February 07, 2018, 06:58:05 pm
I got a SDS1202X scope running 1.1.2.15 R10 firmware version.
Is the following firmware update the right one for my scope?
"SDS1000X/X+ Current Version: v1.1.1.2.15R1 | Published?01-10-2018 NEW"

This SDS1000... vs. SDS1202... naming really confuses me.  ???
There was a mistake in the X/X+ series (NOT X-E) firmware version # when the new firmware was put online. It was corrected very quickly on Siglent websites.
The current and correct version for X models (8" display) is R10 NOT R1
http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4045&tid=15 (http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4045&tid=15)


Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: skander36 on February 07, 2018, 10:42:57 pm
Yes . It work with 17R1. On SDS1202X-E
Auto setup flaw seem to be completely gone , and wave update rate is dramatically improved (XY mode and FFT are now displayed more realistic) . Now it's a real killer for competition . :-+
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: borjam on February 08, 2018, 07:05:35 am
Great. I wonder, @tautech, did they also improve decoding even though they don't mention it? Some time ago I posted some captures in which the first byte of a Modbus exchange wasn't decoded.

Not a tragedy, but it would be better if that was improved :)

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on February 08, 2018, 08:07:24 am
Great. I wonder, @tautech, did they also improve decoding even though they don't mention it? Some time ago I posted some captures in which the first byte of a Modbus exchange wasn't decoded.

Not a tragedy, but it would be better if that was improved :)
I can't check for sure as I'm sold out, demo out for appraisal and waiting on stock.  :rant:

It seems it might be fixed and I mentioned it here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds-1202-x-e-i2c-triggering-bug/msg1420132/#msg1420132 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds-1202-x-e-i2c-triggering-bug/msg1420132/#msg1420132)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Gandalf_Sr on February 10, 2018, 07:51:14 pm
I have the compensation issue on my SDS1202X-E, I wrote to Siglent USA and got a reply, they have offered to send me resistors but said...

"We are familiar with the probe compensation issue. All of the SDS1000X-E products are in specification. There is no specification for “probe compensation flatness” between ranges. When you change ranges, the physical circuit is altered and the design/part tolerances dictate the performance. The probe compensation can be adjusted to minimize the effect."

That seems pretty lame, does Siglent think it's OK that a user would have to recompensate their probe every time they change the vertical scale switch?  Seriously?

Given this is the Official Siglent Support Forum I thought I'd ask the question here by the thread with this issue is here (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1202x-e-compensation-issue/275/)

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: lundmar on February 10, 2018, 08:08:36 pm
I really love the new SDS1204X-E and all its features and in particular its responsiveness and LXI remote programming speed.

After some weeks of use, my only wish is that a new firmware would fix the "Intensity Adjust" feature so that when you turn the knob the intensity would immediately adjust unless, of course, we are in some menu mode where it is used for selection.

I believe Dave also touched upon this in his video. I agree, it's very counter intuitive that when your turn the "Intensity Adjust" knob it does not adjust the intensity.

I hope Siglent will put some attention to this small but important for user-friendly-UI detail.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Performa01 on February 10, 2018, 09:34:13 pm
After some weeks of use, my only wish is that a new firmware would fix the "Intensity Adjust" feature so that when you turn the knob the intensity would immediately adjust unless, of course, we are in some menu mode where it is used for selection.
...
I hope Siglent will put some attention to this small but important for user-friendly-UI detail.

In early firmware versions (only for the SDS2k back then) the "Intensity Adjust" knob did exactly that. Many users (me included) didn't like that, as this control is used a lot for selecting items and adjusting values in the menu system. Many of us inadvertently changed the trace intensity quite often. Especially people like me, who virtually never change the trace intensity, started to hate this feature. I certainly did not miss it, when it was gone at one point - but I never requested that. Quite the opposite.

When I noticed there are still people who expect to change the trace intensity at any time without digging into a menu, I sent the following note to Siglent:

Quote
The universal control knob is labeled “Intensity Adjust” on the front panel of the scopes, but the intensity can only be adjusted when the corresponding menu item on page 2 of the Display menu is selected. I for one like it this way, because I rarely ever adjust the intensity anyway, but some folks seem to consider it vital to have an intensity control immediately available all the time. Dave for instance uses it a lot whenever he’s looking at intensity graded waveforms. Maybe add another menu item to the Display menu where users can chose whether the permanent intensity adjustment is active or not. 

This was the 4th of December in 2017. Quite obviously, this has not been implemented yet, but it is on Siglent's todo list and up to now, it has not been declined.
 
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: lundmar on February 10, 2018, 10:44:18 pm
After some weeks of use, my only wish is that a new firmware would fix the "Intensity Adjust" feature so that when you turn the knob the intensity would immediately adjust unless, of course, we are in some menu mode where it is used for selection.
...
I hope Siglent will put some attention to this small but important for user-friendly-UI detail.

In early firmware versions (only for the SDS2k back then) the "Intensity Adjust" knob did exactly that. Many users (me included) didn't like that, as this control is used a lot for selecting items and adjusting values in the menu system. Many of us inadvertently changed the trace intensity quite often. Especially people like me, who virtually never change the trace intensity, started to hate this feature. I certainly did not miss it, when it was gone at one point - but I never requested that. Quite the opposite.

When I noticed there are still people who expect to change the trace intensity at any time without digging into a menu, I sent the following note to Siglent:

Quote
The universal control knob is labeled “Intensity Adjust” on the front panel of the scopes, but the intensity can only be adjusted when the corresponding menu item on page 2 of the Display menu is selected. I for one like it this way, because I rarely ever adjust the intensity anyway, but some folks seem to consider it vital to have an intensity control immediately available all the time. Dave for instance uses it a lot whenever he’s looking at intensity graded waveforms. Maybe add another menu item to the Display menu where users can chose whether the permanent intensity adjustment is active or not. 

This was the 4th of December in 2017. Quite obviously, this has not been implemented yet, but it is on Siglent's todo list and up to now, it has not been declined.

I see. It certainly depends on user preference.

When I look at the current presentation of this knob the "Intensity Adjust" label seems most prominent but in reality it is mostly a selection knob as you point out.

A suggestion for future models would be to reserve and label this knob "Select" only and then perhaps introduce an "Intensity Adjust" button which can be used in combination for quick access.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on February 10, 2018, 10:53:04 pm
After some weeks of use, my only wish is that a new firmware would fix the "Intensity Adjust" feature so that when you turn the knob the intensity would immediately adjust unless, of course, we are in some menu mode where it is used for selection.
...
I hope Siglent will put some attention to this small but important for user-friendly-UI detail.

In early firmware versions (only for the SDS2k back then) the "Intensity Adjust" knob did exactly that. Many users (me included) didn't like that, as this control is used a lot for selecting items and adjusting values in the menu system. Many of us inadvertently changed the trace intensity quite often. Especially people like me, who virtually never change the trace intensity, started to hate this feature. I certainly did not miss it, when it was gone at one point - but I never requested that. Quite the opposite.

When I noticed there are still people who expect to change the trace intensity at any time without digging into a menu, I sent the following note to Siglent:

Quote
The universal control knob is labeled “Intensity Adjust” on the front panel of the scopes, but the intensity can only be adjusted when the corresponding menu item on page 2 of the Display menu is selected. I for one like it this way, because I rarely ever adjust the intensity anyway, but some folks seem to consider it vital to have an intensity control immediately available all the time. Dave for instance uses it a lot whenever he’s looking at intensity graded waveforms. Maybe add another menu item to the Display menu where users can chose whether the permanent intensity adjustment is active or not. 

This was the 4th of December in 2017. Quite obviously, this has not been implemented yet, but it is on Siglent's todo list and up to now, it has not been declined.

I see. It certainly depends on user preference.

When I look at the current presentation of this knob the "Intensity Adjust" label seems most prominent but in reality it is mostly a selection knob as you point out.

A suggestion for future models would be to reserve and label this knob "Select" only and then perhaps introduce an "Intensity Adjust" button which can be used in combination for quick access.
Many Siglent DSO's have 2 ways to adjust intensity; from within the Display menu or/and using the Multipurpose encoder. I just checked my SDS1104X-E that has the latest FW installed and indeed intensity (at this time) can only be adjusted from within the Display menu.
I fully expect Siglent will offer dual intensity adjustment types to align the 4ch X-E UI with their other models.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Performa01 on February 11, 2018, 12:39:00 am
...
When I look at the current presentation of this knob the "Intensity Adjust" label seems most prominent but in reality it is mostly a selection knob as you point out.

A suggestion for future models would be to reserve and label this knob "Select" only and then perhaps introduce an "Intensity Adjust" button which can be used in combination for quick access.

Well, if Siglent ever sports an extra button near the "universal control knob" - this is what the "Intensity Control" actually is called among insiders ;) - then I would strongly vote for a confirmation button (= Select), so that we don't accidentally change the current selection when pushing the encoder. Of course, we could safely push the encoder whenever we want to adjust the trace intensity instead.

I actually wished Siglent would do that - but that can only be wishful thinking for some future model of course. And then there's always a good chance they will refuse to change the function of the encoder push button "because they have always done it that way and customers are used to it and might prove unable to cope with a different UI philosophy". Oh, I wished Microsoft would have had similar concerns when they totally changed  the user interface of their office package from version 2003 to 2007...

In any case, the instant trace intensity function of that knob is long history. I cannot even remember when it vanished, it's a long time for sure, maybe even with the first version of the SDS1202X-E already. That would be almost a year ago. On the SDS2000X however, the intensity control still works the way you want it - and drives me crazy ;)  well, not really...
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: lundmar on February 11, 2018, 01:19:56 am
...
When I look at the current presentation of this knob the "Intensity Adjust" label seems most prominent but in reality it is mostly a selection knob as you point out.

A suggestion for future models would be to reserve and label this knob "Select" only and then perhaps introduce an "Intensity Adjust" button which can be used in combination for quick access.

Well, if Siglent ever sports an extra button near the "universal control knob" - this is what the "Intensity Control" actually is called among insiders ;) - then I would strongly vote for a confirmation button (= Select), so that we don't accidentally change the current selection when pushing the encoder. Of course, we could safely push the encoder whenever we want to adjust the trace intensity instead.

I actually wished Siglent would do that - but that can only be wishful thinking for some future model of course. And then there's always a good chance they will refuse to change the function of the encoder push button "because they have always done it that way and customers are used to it and might prove unable to cope with a different UI philosophy". Oh, I wished Microsoft would have had similar concerns when they totally changed  the user interface of their office package from version 2003 to 2007...

In any case, the instant trace intensity function of that knob is long history. I cannot even remember when it vanished, it's a long time for sure, maybe even with the first version of the SDS1202X-E already. That would be almost a year ago. On the SDS2000X however, the intensity control still works the way you want it - and drives me crazy ;)  well, not really...

Yes, the situation is now clear to me. You are a MS Office guy and I'm a Linux LibreOffice guy - hence the different take on input controls ;)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: dave356 on February 11, 2018, 03:51:44 am
Just posted my thoughts over on the SDS1202-E thread about the compensation issue.
Very disappointed in SIGLENT over this.

I guess they just don't care enough.
I liked their equipment enough and was thinking about getting a Sig DMM and function gen.
Think again!

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: mr.fabe on February 12, 2018, 08:49:25 am
Just posted my thoughts over on the SDS1202-E thread about the compensation issue.
Very disappointed in SIGLENT over this.

I guess they just don't care enough.
I liked their equipment enough and was thinking about getting a Sig DMM and function gen.
Think again!
It seems as if Siglent's presence in these forums may be selective on particular issues such as the compensation problem.  I hope I am wrong in my thinking, however, based on their awareness of this problem and their unwillingness to address the issue head-on, they may be hoping the issue dies and goes away.  They have an excellent opportunity to resolve this in front of the eevblog community and be a customer focused company as they state in their corporate mission statement.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on February 12, 2018, 09:51:56 am
That, and its decoders that can't decode properly.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on February 28, 2018, 02:33:46 am
Guys.
I was just browsing through Siglent websites and noticed a new version of EasyScopeX that came out a few weeks back. Not seen it mentioned on the forum so I bring to your attention for those that use/need it.

1.02.01.19 (Release Date 02.05.18 )
48 Mb
https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/5404/ (https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/5404/)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Gandalf_Sr on March 05, 2018, 07:42:16 pm
I manged to brick my SPD3303X-E, I went into Easypower to upgrade via USB from firmware 1.01.01.02.03 to 1.01.01.02.05.  I thought I had it running but it was stuck at 7%, - I did not select 'Firmware Mode', 'Normal Mode' was selected.

Anyway, it all hung, the windows program crashed, and I ended up power cycling the PSU, now I get nothing but all the front lights.  Is there a way to get out of this or does it need to go back?

[EDIT] I just sent an email to info@siglent.com with same info as here.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 06, 2018, 08:13:40 am
I manged to brick my SPD3303X-E, I went into Easypower to upgrade via USB from firmware 1.01.01.02.03 to 1.01.01.02.05.  I thought I had it running but it was stuck at 7%, - I did not select 'Firmware Mode', 'Normal Mode' was selected.

Anyway, it all hung, the windows program crashed, and I ended up power cycling the PSU, now I get nothing but all the front lights.  Is there a way to get out of this or does it need to go back?

[EDIT] I just sent an email to info@siglent.com with same info as here.
Suggested recovery procedure here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-spd3303x-e/msg1444941/#msg1444941 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-spd3303x-e/msg1444941/#msg1444941)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Gandalf_Sr on March 06, 2018, 11:11:31 am
Thanks Tautech, fixed now that I RTFM! 

For users too lazy to read the friendly manuals (like me), the solution is simply to press in the twisty-twiddly-turny knob while powering on, that brings up a special firmware update mode screen and USB works again.  The one thing to remember is that, in this recovery mode, you have to select the "Firmware Mode" radio button before using easypower to upload the .ADS file. 

Also, for Windows 10, 64 bit users, it's best to run easypower in Windows 8 compatibility mode (Right-click the desktop icon, select the compatibility tab, and check the Windows 8 compatibility check box - only needed once as it 'remembers' this setting).
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 10, 2018, 11:19:16 pm
From a thread in Repair:
Hi!
I have an oscilloscope one day after purchase. Siglent SDS 1202X-E.
Worked during the day and turned off the power button at night.
In the morning the button blinks, but when I press it it goes out and the oscilloscope does not turn on. Now it does not blink and the oscilloscope does not turn on.
Under the guarantee I can not send. I went through 9 circles of customs hell to transport the oscilloscope to my country. Now I can not even think of sending him back to the seller. Especially since I ripped off the warranty seal, hoping to find the malfunction myself.
Tell me where there can be a problem. What are the first steps I should take to find this malfunction.
Contact Siglent Hamburg to resolve this issue !
http://siglenteu.com/lxwms.aspx?id=1110 (http://siglenteu.com/lxwms.aspx?id=1110)

PS.
It's a new scope, we DON'T repair them !
Have it replaced or the parts to fix it supplied under warranty.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: EEhopeful. on March 14, 2018, 02:49:23 am
Today, a new review in Amazon regarding they still shipping the BA serial number, actually 2 of them in the last few days.  If Siglent is monitoring this blog, why is allowing this to happen? Amazon is not a technical store, so I do not blame them, but Siglent should give the order to recall those SN. Is this, "let's hope the unknowing hobbists buy them and we then have no responsibility" mindset any good for any company?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: dave356 on March 14, 2018, 01:57:14 pm
It's all about the money.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: frompmr on March 16, 2018, 08:17:38 pm
Quote from: frompmr
Hi!
I have an oscilloscope one day after purchase. Siglent SDS 1202X-E.
Worked during the day and turned off the power button at night.
In the morning the button blinks, but when I press it it goes out and the oscilloscope does not turn on. Now it does not blink and the oscilloscope does not turn on.
Under the guarantee I can not send. I went through 9 circles of customs hell to transport the oscilloscope to my country. Now I can not even think of sending him back to the seller. Especially since I ripped off the warranty seal, hoping to find the malfunction myself.
Tell me where there can be a problem. What are the first steps I should take to find this malfunction.
Quote from: tautech
Contact Siglent Hamburg to resolve this issue !
Hey. Thanks for the help.
I figured out what the problem is.
The power supply does not work in the oscilloscope.
I ripped off the seal and opened the oscilloscope.
On the terminals of the power supply connector that connects to the motherboard there are no voltages.
I began to look for a malfunction and came to the conclusion that the impulse transformer does not work. If other parts can be bought in the store, then such transformers are not sold, since each power unit has its own individual transformer.
I wrote in support of Siglent and explained to them the problem.
They said they would try to send me a power supply.
When they do this I do not know, but also do not know if they will send it to me at all.
Since they replied that they would try to send, not send out for sure.
I could take another power supply and convert it to this oscilloscope.
But in the power supply and on the motherboard there is no indication of pinout of the connector for voltages.
Therefore, I would like to ask for help. Can someone give me a pinout of the voltage in the power supply for this oscilloscope?
I asked them about it, but they did not say anything. Perhaps this is their secret.
You also asked for a link to the correspondence with the support of Siglent, but at the end of the letter they write that I have no right to disclose correspondence.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on March 16, 2018, 09:54:39 pm
Quote from: frompmr
Hi!
I have an oscilloscope one day after purchase. Siglent SDS 1202X-E.
Worked during the day and turned off the power button at night.
In the morning the button blinks, but when I press it it goes out and the oscilloscope does not turn on. Now it does not blink and the oscilloscope does not turn on.
Under the guarantee I can not send. I went through 9 circles of customs hell to transport the oscilloscope to my country. Now I can not even think of sending him back to the seller. Especially since I ripped off the warranty seal, hoping to find the malfunction myself.
Tell me where there can be a problem. What are the first steps I should take to find this malfunction.
Quote from: tautech
Contact Siglent Hamburg to resolve this issue !
Hey. Thanks for the help.
I figured out what the problem is.
The power supply does not work in the oscilloscope.
I ripped off the seal and opened the oscilloscope.
On the terminals of the power supply connector that connects to the motherboard there are no voltages.
I began to look for a malfunction and came to the conclusion that the impulse transformer does not work. If other parts can be bought in the store, then such transformers are not sold, since each power unit has its own individual transformer.
I wrote in support of Siglent and explained to them the problem.
They said they would try to send me a power supply.
When they do this I do not know, but also do not know if they will send it to me at all.
Since they replied that they would try to send, not send out for sure.
I could take another power supply and convert it to this oscilloscope.
But in the power supply and on the motherboard there is no indication of pinout of the connector for voltages.
Therefore, I would like to ask for help. Can someone give me a pinout of the voltage in the power supply for this oscilloscope?
I asked them about it, but they did not say anything. Perhaps this is their secret.
You also asked for a link to the correspondence with the support of Siglent, but at the end of the letter they write that I have no right to disclose correspondence.

I think it is wise now that you wait Siglent and not play game with some other power supply! At this time I believe they send new PSU for you.

Also they do not tell voltages with specifications and pins perhaps because they do not want you start play this game with some unknown PSU what may in worst case damage your scope main board. After play with some unknown PSU there is not any kind of warranty.

Product have failed PSU and it have 3 year factory warranty.

You can ask how and when they will send it to you. Time table depends also where they have this spare part.
Now you have to be a little patient.

(Later if really can not get new PSU then can look other solutions)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Performa01 on March 16, 2018, 10:02:04 pm
But in the power supply and on the motherboard there is no indication of pinout of the connector for voltages.
Therefore, I would like to ask for help. Can someone give me a pinout of the voltage in the power supply for this oscilloscope?
I asked them about it, but they did not say anything. Perhaps this is their secret.

I guess the support staff don't know such technical details, we might have to ask R&D at the factory in Shenzhen. We could certainly try that, but I do hope you will not actually need it but receive a replacement PSU instead. It just may take some time as logistics can sometimes be a bit complicated with different spots scattered around the world (Factory in China, Siglent Europe in Germany, You in Moldova) involved, so please be patient.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 16, 2018, 11:58:04 pm
Quote from: frompmr
Hi!
I have an oscilloscope one day after purchase. Siglent SDS 1202X-E.
Worked during the day and turned off the power button at night.
In the morning the button blinks, but when I press it it goes out and the oscilloscope does not turn on. Now it does not blink and the oscilloscope does not turn on.
Under the guarantee I can not send. I went through 9 circles of customs hell to transport the oscilloscope to my country. Now I can not even think of sending him back to the seller. Especially since I ripped off the warranty seal, hoping to find the malfunction myself.
Tell me where there can be a problem. What are the first steps I should take to find this malfunction.
Quote from: tautech
Contact Siglent Hamburg to resolve this issue !
Hey. Thanks for the help.
I figured out what the problem is.
The power supply does not work in the oscilloscope.
I ripped off the seal and opened the oscilloscope.
On the terminals of the power supply connector that connects to the motherboard there are no voltages.
I began to look for a malfunction and came to the conclusion that the impulse transformer does not work. If other parts can be bought in the store, then such transformers are not sold, since each power unit has its own individual transformer.
I wrote in support of Siglent and explained to them the problem.
They said they would try to send me a power supply.
When they do this I do not know, but also do not know if they will send it to me at all.
Since they replied that they would try to send, not send out for sure.
I could take another power supply and convert it to this oscilloscope.
But in the power supply and on the motherboard there is no indication of pinout of the connector for voltages.
Therefore, I would like to ask for help. Can someone give me a pinout of the voltage in the power supply for this oscilloscope?
I asked them about it, but they did not say anything. Perhaps this is their secret.
You also asked for a link to the correspondence with the support of Siglent, but at the end of the letter they write that I have no right to disclose correspondence.
:-+
Thanks for the update.
A new PSU is the best solution.
It will probably take a couple of weeks or more for you to receive the PSU so as others have said please be patient.
As yet there is no Service manual for X-E models but in time there will be one.
Fingers crossed nothing else has been damaged.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: DazA1 on March 28, 2018, 07:31:09 pm
Just wondering if there is any update on the new firmware for the SHS handheld scopes.

Last post form Siglent America (mid January) said about a couple of months?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 28, 2018, 07:37:53 pm
Just wondering if there is any update on the new firmware for the SHS handheld scopes.

Last post form Siglent America (mid January) said about a couple of months?
Just checked the Siglent webpages and there's nothing new yet.

Steve from the US might like to find out and give an update.

Edit.
From Tech support:
About middle of May, we will release the SHS800/SHS1000 firmware.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: BillB on March 29, 2018, 12:49:15 am
Just wondering if there is any update on the new firmware for the SHS handheld scopes.

Last post form Siglent America (mid January) said about a couple of months?

+1  :-+
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: DazA1 on March 29, 2018, 06:20:30 pm
Quote
About middle of May, we will release the SHS800/SHS1000 firmware.

Ok thanks for the update.

I hope it will fix all the issues that stop these scopes from being a really useful tool.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: pantelei4 on March 29, 2018, 07:22:01 pm
From Tech support:
About middle of May, we will release the SHS800/SHS1000 firmware.
Three years are waiting for the promised.
Russian saying.  |O
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Stu5 on May 10, 2018, 11:42:04 pm
Hello,

I've just got a new Siglent SDS1104X-E, and as soon as I started the probe compensation I noticed a rather odd artifact. I've seen lots of other issues on the forum, but not this one:

Viewing the 1kHz calibration signal with 1X probe is fine from 10V/div to 200mV/div. When I go to 100mV/div (and the relay clicks), the bottom part of the square wave turns into a ramp (please see images for a clear understanding). The steepness of this ramp then varies with turning the vertical positions (not zoom) knob.

1Xprobe - 500mVdiv:
(https://i.imgur.com/ep0b1du.png)

1Xprobe - 100mVdiv:
(https://i.imgur.com/CdbQMug.png)


I noticed that the problem didn't appear when using the 10X probe setting, so I decided to go back to 1X setting and manually attenuate the signal using a pot across the calibration terminals:
- Reducing the amplitude of the square wave from 3.0V to 2.7V (checking amplitude by going to 500mV/div) causes the ramp to become less steep, and for the lowest point of the square wave/ramp to rise to 330mV (which the oscilloscope also reports from the measurement figures)
- Reducing the amplitude further makes the offset go back down, and the ramp disappear, until the square wave looks completely correct when it's amplitude is at 1.25V.
- All of the changes described above are continuous and change smoothly as I turn the pot to change the calibration signal amplitude:

1Xprobe - signal attenuated to 2.62V - 500mVdiv:
(https://imgur.com/pTU9kbP.png)

1Xprobe - signal attenuated to 2.62V - 100mVdiv:
(https://imgur.com/CP4QaU0.png)

1Xprobe - signal attenuated to 1.20V - 500mVdiv:
(https://imgur.com/UXrCxAX.png)

1Xprobe - signal attenuated to 1.20V - 100mVdiv:
(https://imgur.com/pzut9NZ.png)



The images explain it best, but here are some other points:
- It happens regardless of triggering or coupling mode
- It happens on all channels
- If you stop the acquisition at 200mV/div and zoom in to 100mV/div, the waveform does not develop the ramp problem
- If you stop the acquisition at 100mV/div and change the vertical positionin, the ramp does not change steepness. (these checks are to rule out a memory problem)
- firmware 7.6.1.20 R2

I can't think of anything else for now. Hopefully I'm not just doing something daft!

Any thoughts appreciated...
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on May 11, 2018, 01:41:59 am
Hello,

I've just got a new Siglent SDS1104X-E, and as soon as I started the probe compensation I noticed a rather odd artifact. I've seen lots of other issues on the forum, but not this one:


I can't think of anything else for now. Hopefully I'm not just doing something daft!

Any thoughts appreciated...
Welcome to the forum Stu.

You are doing something daft but only because you're not aware of this behavior in a DSO.
Simply, you're over-driving the inputs beyond what they're capable of managing.
This comes up reasonably frequently on the forum so don't think you're the first to experience it or be embarrassed to post about it. It serves as a good refresher for those that don't know about it.
All brands are affected.

Best advice is to keep the waveform amplitude within the vertical boundaries of the display and if you need to investigate the peaks of the waveform then work within the datasheet Offset Range parameters:
https://www.siglentamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2018/02/SDS1000X-E_DataSheet_DS0101E-E03A-1.pdf (https://www.siglentamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2018/02/SDS1000X-E_DataSheet_DS0101E-E03A-1.pdf)
Vertical System P8.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: boggis the cat on May 11, 2018, 05:23:08 am
Tautech has already responded with the reason for this behaviour, but I thought I should add this.

Note that the "Pk-Pk[1]=3.10V" and "Ampl[1]=3.02V" indications have an "=" symbol here:
1Xprobe - 500mVdiv:
(https://i.imgur.com/ep0b1du.png)

While when the signal has been exceeded, as below, you get an above maximum reported (with ">"): "Pk-Pk[1]>784.00mV" and "Ampl[1]>780.00m".
Quote
1Xprobe - 100mVdiv:
(https://i.imgur.com/CdbQMug.png)

This is handy to realise, as the 'scope is letting you know that there is a problem.

Perhaps it would be useful to have a more obvious 'flag' to let the user know when this condition occurs.  Some other 'scopes give an "***" type of indication instead of giving the maximum, but my preference would be for some form of separate 'overload condition' indication.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Performa01 on May 11, 2018, 06:34:12 am
I'd like to clarify a few things about overdriving the scope input stage, as this topic comes up quite often:

As most high(er) bandwidth scopes, the Siglent SDS1000X-E have a split path input buffer. That means there is a separate signal path for low frequencies down to DC in order to ensure reasonable high DC accuracy and offset stability, which a wide bandwidth / high impedance buffer cannot provide on its own.

Overdriving the DC path is straight forward and just results in clipping outside the visible screen area, so no problems here.
Overdriving the AC path - put in simple terms - causes a differentiation of the input signal rather than clipping.
When both signals are combined at the output of the split path buffer, this causes significant signal distortion. It gets particularly bad if the overdrive is asymmetrical, because this causes a an offset shift between both signal paths.

See also this thread, where a similar topic has been discussed:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/is-this-the-siglent-compensation-issue-of-else/msg1467994/#msg1467994 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/is-this-the-siglent-compensation-issue-of-else/msg1467994/#msg1467994)

Some more hints:

1. The specified input offset range does not indicate the amount of overdrive that can be tolerated, just the input offset voltage that can be compensated by means of the vertical position control. The overdrive is always the signal portion outside the visible screen area, hence related to the signal amplitude, which isn't affected by the position control.

The buffer input can handle some +/-500mV without noticable distortion, so you can overdrive the 500uV/div range quite severly and even asymmetrically while still being able to view the pulse flat without significant distotion, but this is not generally so.

The true rule of thumb is to make sure that the input buffer does not see more than +/-500mV in order to avoid signal distotions.

This means that the distortion free input range is about
+/-500mV up to 118mV/div
+/-5V from 120mV/div to 1.18V/div
+/-50V for 1.2V/div up to 10V/div

The numbers above have to be multiplied by the probe attenuation factor of course, so they are ten times higher for a 10x probe for example.

This means that at 200mV/div we still get a significant overdrive tolerance of +/-5V, but at 1V/div it is still only +/-5V, hence almost no headroom left.

2. The automatic amplitude measurements currently indicate overrange (>) as soon as a single sample falls outside the visible screen area, so they are just an indication for parts of the signal might not be visible, but no overdrive warning. Just stick with the rule of thumb given above and you're unlikely to ever run into problems with signal fidelity.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: evgen.05 on May 11, 2018, 07:47:43 am
Hello! Found a strange behavior of my SDS1202x-e. Same signal. Just Sampling 500/1GS/s. Why amplitude is different?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on May 11, 2018, 07:52:00 am
Hello! Found a strandge behavior of my SDS1202x-e. Same signal. Just Sampling 500/1GS/s. Why amplitude is different?
At a glance it looks like aliasing.....take note of the timebase setting vs frequency indicator.
Adjust to fastest timebase then see what you measure.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: evgen.05 on May 11, 2018, 07:54:55 am
It doesn't matter. Just turn on second channel - amplitude is higher
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on May 11, 2018, 08:58:12 am
It doesn't matter. Just turn on second channel - amplitude is higher
Yep, mine's the same. I have my suspicions why but I'd rather someone more knowledgeable explain than me talk out of my ar*se.

It's Nyquist related and with half the sample rate with 2 channels active quite evident.
So not being able to shut eyes and leave it till the morning it was best to get it out of my mind.

HP sig gen @ ~80 MHz
SDS1104X-E (2x 1Gsa/s ADC's)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=430007)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=430013)

Channels 1 and 4 use an ADC each.
So with sufficient sampling rate measurements remains the same.
SDS1202X-E was checked with the same signal @ 80 MHz and the measurement change was minute, maybe 2 mV.
Maybe I should've checked 1202X-E at higher frequencies to see when 2 channels active 'really' makes a difference but you can do that.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Performa01 on May 11, 2018, 09:11:53 am
1GSa/s -> both ADCs combined in interleaved mode provide 5 samples per signal period.
500MSa/s -> single ADC provides just 2.5 samples per signal period.

With only few samples per waveform period, signal reconstruction cannot be very accurate anymore and 2.5 or 5 samples per waveform period is a significant difference. Not great, but that's how it is if you go close to the limits.

Yet I assume the amplitude is within the specified +2/-3dB in both cases - what is the suppopsed actual signal amplitude?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Stu5 on May 11, 2018, 02:04:57 pm
Performa1, Boggis, & Tautech - thanks for your responses, that is very useful for my understanding.

See also this thread, where a similar topic has been discussed:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/is-this-the-siglent-compensation-issue-of-else/msg1467994/#msg1467994 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/is-this-the-siglent-compensation-issue-of-else/msg1467994/#msg1467994)
I had actually read this thread already. Just to clarify, in my case the distortion is at the bottom of the square wave which is at 0V (so I can see this with zero vertical offset), whereas in the above thread the signal is being offset by a long way to see the top. For me it also seems to extend over a much longer timescale - in the above thread, the effect seems to last less than 60ns.
Are we saying that the high part of the square wave is causing the overdrive problem which affects the part of the signal (near 0V) which we can see?

Before this I was using a fairly basic OWON VDS1022 PC oscilloscope, and this didn't show the effect. Are you still sure it is due to being over-driven?





Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: radiolistener on May 11, 2018, 03:14:05 pm
I'm using SDS1102X and found some strange thing.
I connected input to the adafruit Si5351 module ( https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-si5351-clock-generator-breakout/overview (https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-si5351-clock-generator-breakout/overview) ) with 0.5 m coaxial cable with SMA connectors. The oscilloscope input is switched to 50 Ohm mode. And Si5351 programmed for 10 MHz output.

Si5351 has a good square wave output with fast rise time = 1 ns. So, it looks like good way to test oscilloscope bandwidth :)

10 MHz:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=430160;image)

500 kHz:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=430166;image)

There is strange distortion on the top, I tried 1 m cable and it leads to increase delay of the distortion.
So, it looks like impedance mismatch which leads to pulse reflection in the cable.

Can someone test other SDS1102X with a fast 1 ns pulse source?
Is it ok to get such reflection on the oscilloscope?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Performa01 on May 11, 2018, 07:14:19 pm
Performa1, Boggis, & Tautech - thanks for your responses, that is very useful for my understanding.

See also this thread, where a similar topic has been discussed:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/is-this-the-siglent-compensation-issue-of-else/msg1467994/#msg1467994 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/is-this-the-siglent-compensation-issue-of-else/msg1467994/#msg1467994)
I had actually read this thread already. Just to clarify, in my case the distortion is at the bottom of the square wave which is at 0V (so I can see this with zero vertical offset), whereas in the above thread the signal is being offset by a long way to see the top. For me it also seems to extend over a much longer timescale - in the above thread, the effect seems to last less than 60ns.
Are we saying that the high part of the square wave is causing the overdrive problem which affects the part of the signal (near 0V) which we can see?

Before this I was using a fairly basic OWON VDS1022 PC oscilloscope, and this didn't show the effect. Are you still sure it is due to being over-driven?

It does not matter whether the top or bottom of the waveform is observed when the opposite part of it falls outside the +/-500mV window after the attenuators.

It depends on the signal frequency what the distortion looks like. It gets generally much worse with lower frequencies. The signal freqeuency was 10kHz in that other thread.

Just to illustrate that, here’s my test signal at 100Hz and 2.5Vpp amplitude, measured at a vertical gain setting of 1V/div:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=430412;image)
Test Signal 100Hz@1V

Now increase the vertical gain to 120mV/div:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=430418;image)
Test Signal 100Hz@120mV

Even though the input is heavily overdriven by 2V beyond the top of the visible screen area, there is not much signal distortion and only minor offset shift.

Now increase the vertical gain just a tad to 118mV/div:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=430424;image)
Test Signal 100Hz@118mV

See? This is because of the low frequencies get clipped, whereas the higher frequencies just get an offset. Because of this the two signal portions don’t fit together anymore.

Now let’s try a higher signal frequency, 1kHz at the exact same settings otherwise:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=430430;image)
Test Signal 1kHz@118mV

Looks much better already, doesn’t it?

Now the same test at 10kHz:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=430436;image)
Test Signal 10kHz@118mV

Distortion is almost gone. This is because now even the fundamental of the input signal is processed by the HF part of the input buffer. There is still an offset shift, but this gets less with shorter signal periods of course and is already almost negligible here.

Finally 100kHz:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=430442;image)
Test Signal 100kHz@118mV

Bingo! No noticeable signal distortion and also no offset shift anymore.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Performa01 on May 11, 2018, 07:47:15 pm
I'm using SDS1102X and found some strange thing.
I connected input to the adafruit Si5351 module ( https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-si5351-clock-generator-breakout/overview (https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-si5351-clock-generator-breakout/overview) ) with 0.5 m coaxial cable with SMA connectors. The oscilloscope input is switched to 50 Ohm mode. And Si5351 programmed for 10 MHz output.

Si5351 has a good square wave output with fast rise time = 1 ns. So, it looks like good way to test oscilloscope bandwidth :)



There is strange distortion on the top, I tried 1 m cable and it leads to increase delay of the distortion.
So, it looks like impedance mismatch which leads to pulse reflection in the cable.

Can someone test other SDS1102X with a fast 1 ns pulse source?
Is it ok to get such reflection on the oscilloscope?

I don’t have a SDS1102X, but SDS2304X is similar with regard to the 50 ohm input, which isn’t a good match above some 100MHz.

Here’s the test with 10MHz square wave, 1ns rise time, 1.5Vpp amplitude and internal 50 ohm termination of the scope:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=430508;image)
SDS2304X Square 10MHz 1ns 50ohm internal

Here is the similar situation, but with an external 10dB in-line attenuator at the scope input and the generator level increased to 4.5Vpp:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=430514;image)
SDS2304X Square 10MHz 1ns 50ohm internal + 10dB Att

As can be seen, the situation improves significantly with this.

Of course, much higher frequency content can be seen in my screenshots, because the SDS2304 happens to have 375MHz/3dB bandwidth at 200mV/div vertical gain setting.

Title: SSA3000x Time and Date
Post by: Joel_l on May 12, 2018, 07:05:05 pm
I went to use my spectrum analyzer today and noticed the time and date or off. when I go to set date, I cant change anything. I can change the date format OK but the date or time, no. I expect that pressing the function button would scroll through the fields and the knob would change them. Nothing happens.

I recently updated to 1.2.9.1, but I don't recall trying to change anything in previous versions.

Am I missing something?

Thanks

Update: I did a reset and then the time and date test showed on the display and I was able to key in the correct data. Certainly does not work as the "help" menu suggest.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Dino2018 on June 01, 2018, 09:05:22 am
My experiences with SHS1102 (firmware 3.01.02.02R7):
The hardware is quite good but the software is too buggy.

Problems I have found so far:
All the mathematic functions and the "Trend Plot mode" ignore the set probe attenuation (X10, X100...) its X1 regardless the settings.

If I pres Run/Stop the applied (Low pass) filter is turned off and must be reactivated in the menu.

Sometimes when saving a BMP the waveforms disappear (everything else is saved).

I'd like to use inverted screen but some texts are difficult to read as they have almost the same color as the background.

If I record a Trend Plot it's very difficult to read the cursors. For example if the recording is 20min long and I want to measure values of both inputs in the same time (voltage and current at 11min:22sec).

It's almost impossible to move the cursor through longer Trend Plots or zoom to a specific point in the trend. I'm recording trends overnight but it's useless if I can't read the data afterwards as the device is practically frozen.

I have send my complaints to the distributor and he forwarded it to the prodecer but we didn't get any response (it's already 5 months).
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on June 01, 2018, 09:18:14 am
My experiences with SHS1102 (firmware 3.01.02.02R7):
The hardware is quite good but the software is too buggy.

Problems I have found so far:
All the mathematic functions and the "Trend Plot mode" ignore the set probe attenuation (X10, X100...) its X1 regardless the settings.

If I pres Run/Stop the applied (Low pass) filter is turned off and must be reactivated in the menu.

Sometimes when saving a BMP the waveforms disappear (everything else is saved).

I'd like to use inverted screen but some texts are difficult to read as they have almost the same color as the background.

If I record a Trend Plot it's very difficult to read the cursors. For example if the recording is 20min long and I want to measure values of both inputs in the same time (voltage and current at 11min:22sec).

It's almost impossible to move the cursor through longer Trend Plots or zoom to a specific point in the trend. I'm recording trends overnight but it's useless if I can't read the data afterwards as the device is practically frozen.

I have send my complaints to the distributor and he forwarded it to the prodecer but we didn't get any response (it's already 5 months).
Welcome to the forum.

Please see reply:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg1464559/#msg1464559 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg1464559/#msg1464559)

I have no further updates at this time.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: DazA1 on June 01, 2018, 01:48:02 pm
@Dino2018

I asked the same question and was told a new firmware was going to be released around mid May. Its 1st of June today so maybe soon we will have these issues fixed?

I found the same issues with my scope and i decided to put together a pdf (see post 934 of this thread).

I hope this gets sorted but i am not getting my hopes up these issues have been around for a long time.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent America on June 01, 2018, 01:53:25 pm
We are currently finishing up the editing on the documentation. I expect it will be posted in a week (hopefully less).
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on June 07, 2018, 10:27:16 am
New SHS1000 and SHS800 series firmware is now available on Siglent websites.
Release Date 06.07.18

SHS800 owners.
Warning:
Be sure to select correct version to suit your model.

https://www.siglenteu.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/handheld-oscilloscopes/ (https://www.siglenteu.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/handheld-oscilloscopes/)

At this time only the SHS820 (200 MHz) and SHS1000 firmware is up on the US site.
https://www.siglentamerica.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/handheld-oscilloscopes/ (https://www.siglentamerica.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/handheld-oscilloscopes/)

Further info SHS800: 60, 100, 150 MHz models
Changelog
1. The probe attenuation factor is considered in the trend diagram mode.
2. Digital filtering state remains even in scope stop state.
3. The switchboard can record the configuration of the math waveform.
4. The Math waveform takes into account the probe coefficient configuration.
5. Improved Win10/EasyScope connectivity.
6. Improved vertical cursor measurements when changing scales on fixed/stopped waveforms
7. Enabled self-calibration under Normal or Single mode.
8. Improved edge trigger performance for single and normal mode
9. Increased Single trigger data depth in long storage mode(from 20kto2Mpts).
10. Increased stability of trend map transfer of CSV data to USB memory devices > 4 GB
11. Optimize the display algorithm of multi-meter trend chart and oscilloscope trend chart. Solves the slow response of keys after long recording time.
12. Enhanced FFT data usage. Long storage features 40 times the corresponding frequency points used in ordinary storage.
13. Improved read/write timeout to the U disk.
14. Time stamp information added to the saved CSV file.

Update instructions
Very important ! READ THEM please !
CFG (configuration) file are to be installed too so take care that instructions are followed.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: DazA1 on June 07, 2018, 11:42:40 am
  WARNING!!!!       WARNING!!!!

Just updated my Firmware on a SHS1062 with this file and it looks like its been bricked!!!!

It reported the firmware update successful and told me to power cycle the unit.

When i pressed the power button i heard the relay click but nothing on the screen. Disconnecting and reconnecting the battery has made no difference.

Any ideas??
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: BillB on June 07, 2018, 12:50:32 pm
Aw man, that's a bummer.  Now I'm afraid to upgrade mine.   :scared:
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: DazA1 on June 07, 2018, 03:33:42 pm
The irony of my scope being bricked is not lost on me considering i was one the people for a long time requesting these issues to be fixed.

I was so pleased to read the list of changes i just wanted to get it updated  :-BROKE


Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Performa01 on June 07, 2018, 04:00:45 pm
The irony of my scope being bricked is not lost on me considering i was one the people for a long time requesting these issues to be fixed.

I was so pleased to read the list of changes i just wanted to get it updated  :-BROKE


Really sorry to read about the troubles. Have you contacted Siglent support already?

If not, just use the contact form on the linked webpage.

https://www.siglentamerica.com/contact-us/ (https://www.siglentamerica.com/contact-us/)

And please keep us updated. Best of luck!


Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: BillB on June 07, 2018, 04:34:06 pm
In spite of DazA1's difficulties, I decided to provide another data point and upgrade my SHS806.  I am happy to report that it upgraded without a problem, so it seems the SHS806,08,10's firmware is safe.  :-+

The release notes implied EasyScope capability on Windows 10 with the new EasyScopeX version (that I installed and tested with the SDS1000X-E update).  However, as this is USB, the previous EasyScope 3 software used custom USB drivers rather than NI.  These drivers do not install on Windows 10 Pro 1803; the inf installer complains that the third-party inf does not contain a digital signature.

I did have EasyScope 3 running on a Windows 7 machine connected to this SHS806, so I know its possible.  The documentation regarding how EasyScopeX might support the SHS806 in a Windows 10 64bit system is lacking.  :-//

Thanks Siglent and you Siglent support guys on this forum for being so responsive!
 :clap:
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: DazA1 on June 07, 2018, 06:07:26 pm
I have not noticed these lines on the screen before? I needed a bright light and the screen to be just at the right angle to make them visible. The thicker group of lines at the bottom seem to be the same width as Siglents GUI. They change a little bit when the power button is pressed and stay on screen even when the battery is disconnected.

Instead of the firmware update failing has my screen gone bad? The last image on the screen was the "Please power cycle" message which was on a completely white background something the screen to my knowledge has never displayed before. Could this have stressed the screen somehow? (going from an entirely white screen to then off)

The only problem with the idea that it's the screen not the Firmware update is that i can't hear the relays when pressing the CH1 & CH2 buttons?

Any ideas? (i really wanted to play around with these Firmware updates)

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: mojoe on June 07, 2018, 11:43:26 pm
I know this reply is months later, but I've started a new job and moved across the country since my previous post. I finally got the two power supplies unboxed and just finished replacing the binding posts with the new ones that Siglent sent me in January.

The first one took a little while to figure out the best way to disassemble things, without taking too much apart. The second one only took about 15 minutes. The new binding posts fit my banana plugs much firmer, so I'm happy.

When I had the supplies apart, I noted how very nicely everything was laid out, and how clean the boards were. There was no sign of rust or rough edges on the metal. I didn't bother to see what brand caps were used, but overall, the insides looked to be very good quality.

Thanks to Siglent for sending me the new binding posts.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on June 08, 2018, 07:49:31 am
I know this reply is months later, but I've started a new job and moved across the country since my previous post. I finally got the two power supplies unboxed and just finished replacing the binding posts with the new ones that Siglent sent me in January.

The first one took a little while to figure out the best way to disassemble things, without taking too much apart. The second one only took about 15 minutes. The new binding posts fit my banana plugs much firmer, so I'm happy.

When I had the supplies apart, I noted how very nicely everything was laid out, and how clean the boards were. There was no sign of rust or rough edges on the metal. I didn't bother to see what brand caps were used, but overall, the insides looked to be very good quality.

Thanks to Siglent for sending me the new binding posts.
Glad you have it sorted.
There's a mod that can be done that allows short and shouldered banana plugs to be used plus some discussion on lengths that seem best to use with SPD3kX models.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-spd3303x-e-binding-post-issues-solved/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-spd3303x-e-binding-post-issues-solved/)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: pantelei4 on June 08, 2018, 03:41:59 pm
New SHS1000 and SHS800 series firmware is now available on Siglent websites.
Release Date 06.07.18
Yes! I installed the new firmware successfully. The most important bug with bad work in normal and single modes is fixed.
- Single mode, the long memory runs correctly, it's very encouraging.
- Normal mode, long memory does not work, but you can agree with this.
- In all modes, the captured waveforms are scaled correctly.
Finally, the device can be used. Siglent corrected his mistakes, it pleases. :-+
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: pantelei4 on June 08, 2018, 07:03:17 pm
New bug. In the normal mode, automatic measurements do not work correctly. If you scale previously captured signal  Volt / div, Time / div,  the measured values change in proportion to the scale factor. When you update the screen with a new captured waveform, automatic measurements are corrected.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: pantelei4 on June 10, 2018, 09:44:55 pm
3. Multimeter Trend. Seemed to work fine at first but then if you move the cursor around you get peaks in the trend which you can reproduce (see BMP below testing a battery) Also when trying the other keys you can get the 4.181V i was measuring to instantly turn into 4.181mV or even 100K ohms!!!
The recorder's bugs are not fixed.
At me instead of mV, kOm too jumps with new firmware, nothing has changed.
Screenshot multimeter trend plot, voltage in the absence of the probe and moving the cursor during their measurements.
Skope trend also does not work as expected.  :horse:
Probably we have little to put Siglent face in the shit, so that they fix all the bugs. >:D
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: DazA1 on June 29, 2018, 05:37:08 pm
Just to update other users of these scopes, it seems my SHS1062 has been bricked after some very helpful assistance from Jason at Siglent i have been trying to reset the scope following their procedure (lots & lots of presses of the SCOPE button). 60 plus attempts and i got nothing, at power on i get one relay click and nothing (should be another 3 second later) guessing it's not getting far enough in the boot sequence.

Originally I was quoted a price to fix the scope because i have had it for 4 years, later this was changed to a free repair (i was to pay the shipping). The fact that Siglent even thought i should pay to fix the scope bricked by their firmware update says a lot about how the owners of the SHS portable scopes are seen by them. I am sure that their bench top equipment is very good but i would just ask those Siglent users would they put up with a function on their scope that ignored the probe attenuation settings completely? (the SHS Scope trend function) I ask because it has only just been fixed in this 2018 update (I also own the SHS806 bought 2012). I would say it's not really a bug it just completely ignores your probe settings that's all.

I have been a loyal user of these scopes since 2012, i have made a lot of excuses for the short comings in the firmware of these units over that time, even documenting and sending them direct to Siglent. Their lack of interest and partial firmware fixes (see the Scope trend probe issue above) always annoyed me but now that their firmware has bricked my scope (btw an update i was really looking forward to using) and the fact they were going to charge me to fix it means i am out of patience and more importantly out of trust with Siglent.

One good thing to come out of this is that i now appreciate the value of trust in your equipment, Its amazing how quickly you lose it.

@Pantelei4
Just by playing around with my successfully updated SHS806 i have found at least 3 bugs in the new firmware.

I am now looking at the Fluke 120 & 190 series of portable scopes.

Thanks Darren.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: autko on July 09, 2018, 02:32:01 pm
Hello,

have two question:

1) I'm interested in SDM3045X but in the review below a serious bug was shown (58min):
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K09BLgyk9Hg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K09BLgyk9Hg)

Was the issue of DC measurement with AC signal present (ie. supply voltage with AC ripple) sorted out?

2) I do own SDS1072CML (note- without the plus sign at the end ;) and was looking for firmware update as there are some issues with the scope (ie. with the stability of the trace). On the Siglent web page I see only firmware for SDS1000CML+ series: will it  suit my equipment?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on July 09, 2018, 07:20:35 pm
Hello,

have two question:

1) I'm interested in SDM3045X but in the review below a serious bug was shown (58min):

Was the issue of DC measurement with AC signal present (ie. supply voltage with AC ripple) sorted out?

2) I do own SDS1072CML (note- without the plus sign at the end ;) and was looking for firmware update as there are some issues with the scope (ie. with the stability of the trace). On the Siglent web page I see only firmware for SDS1000CML+ series: will it  suit my equipment?
Welcome to the forum.

No, you must use the pre Plus CML version.
It's on the Shenzhen website.
http://old.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS1000CML_SSP_V100R005B01D02P32.rar (http://old.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS1000CML_SSP_V100R005B01D02P32.rar)

I can only see one new FW version for SDM3045X and the changelog does not mention any changes to measurement accuracy but sometimes these things are not stated but repaired anyway. We'd need to ask tech support at ask the product manager.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: autko on July 10, 2018, 01:09:26 am
Hello,

thank you Tautech for immediate reply :D


No, you must use the pre Plus CML version.
It's on the Shenzhen website.
http://old.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS1000CML_SSP_V100R005B01D02P32.rar (http://old.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS1000CML_SSP_V100R005B01D02P32.rar)
Although it's 3am here in PL I decided to make a quick firmware update and... it helped significantly- thanks a lot! :D  :-+


I can only see one new FW version for SDM3045X and the changelog does not mention any changes to measurement accuracy but sometimes these things are not stated but repaired anyway. We'd need to ask tech support at ask the product manager.

In such a case, lets wait for the tech support :)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: BillB on July 11, 2018, 01:00:31 am
Hello,

have two question:

1) I'm interested in SDM3045X but in the review below a serious bug was shown (58min):
...
Was the issue of DC measurement with AC signal present (ie. supply voltage with AC ripple) sorted out?

I tried to replicate what the youtube video was showing at the 58 minute mark.  Unfortunately, I didn't have much equipment to independently verify.  The setup:

1 Siglent SDM3045X
1 Siglent SDM3055
1 Siglent SHS806
1 Siglent SDG2042X
1 Siglent SDS1104X
1 TPI 440 True RMS Scopemeter

I had the SDG generate varied .5-1 Vrms signals with 1-2 Vdc offsets at 1 KHz and 5 KHz.  All three of the Siglent DMMs behaved similarly.  The DC readings were off from the TPI meter while the AC measurements seemed OK.  I've attached some screenshots/pics of the 1Vrms+2Vdc+1KHz and 5KHz measurements from the various devices.

So, unless I'm mistaken, it seems all the Siglent DMMs still exhibit the issue (Maybe the 3065X is different?).

Edited by gnif: The image "SDS1104X-E (2VDC-1VRMS-1KHZ).png" that was attached has been removed, it was not a PNG but a Microsoft Bitmap (BMP) and crashed out this thread.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on July 11, 2018, 03:06:58 am
From tech support regarding the SDM measurement error:

For this issue, we have optimaized it in the new units. Added the filter function. Opening the filter function can remove this issue.
For the device which don't support the filter function, it needs to adjust to next bigger scale manually. It can also make the result much better.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: BillB on July 11, 2018, 12:31:03 pm
Edited by gnif: The image "SDS1104X-E (2VDC-1VRMS-1KHZ).png" that was attached has been removed, it was not a PNG but a Microsoft Bitmap (BMP) and crashed out this thread.

DOH!   |O

I wondered what I did!  Sorry about the mess.  I thought I had converted them all as I renamed them. 

I had two more images showing the outputs on the SDS1104X, and a shot of the TPI440 also showing the correct DC measurement, but now I'm afraid to post any more pictures.  :scared:

Anyway, I'll need to double check this, but during my testing I didn't find as much of a difference between ranges as the youtuber. Also, regarding the filter, I'll re-check the 3055 with the filter applied and see if that makes any difference.  However, the 3045X doesn't have a filter.  :(

Finally, Siglent, please update all the EasyXXX software to save PNG images rather than bitmaps.  Thanks!

***UPDATE***
Confirmed - the 3055 filter function corrects the problem.  On both units, manually adjusting to the next scale also corrects the problem.
   :-+   

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: bugi on August 04, 2018, 09:06:18 am
My google-fu seems to be failing badly... or Siglent is failing badly with their marketing/info... but I just can't find any good information on the SDS2000X (or perhaps other series, too) PAS option features.

The best I could find was release notes: "Released the Power Analysis option", various sites providing the price for it, and siglent america site revealing it needs some extra hardware, too (deskew, current probe(s)). From the single screenshot I could find + the extra hardware bit + its full name (power analysis) I could deduce what it is likely meant for, but nothing about what all features it has and how it really works etc. etc.

I don't personally seem to need it, but, for the benefit for others...

Does anyone have or find links for better info about that PAS option?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on August 04, 2018, 09:16:03 am
My google-fu seems to be failing badly... or Siglent is failing badly with their marketing/info... but I just can't find any good information on the SDS2000X (or perhaps other series, too) PAS option features.

The best I could find was release notes: "Released the Power Analysis option", various sites providing the price for it, and siglent america site revealing it needs some extra hardware, too (deskew, current probe(s)). From the single screenshot I could find + the extra hardware bit + its full name (power analysis) I could deduce what it is likely meant for, but nothing about what all features it has and how it really works etc. etc.

I don't personally seem to need it, but, for the benefit for others...

Does anyone have or find links for better info about that PAS option?
The latest User manual has a section on PAS starting on P192-218/242.
https://www.siglenteu.com/download/2615/ (https://www.siglenteu.com/download/2615/)

Should offer all you need to get up and running.

Just packed my 2304X away but the internal Help files should have something in the unit for quick ref.

Edit
The only additional HW required is a current probe for some of the PAS measurement reports.
There's also an optional deskew PCB fixture to null the probe propagation delays.
https://www.siglenteu.com/accessory/df2001a/ (https://www.siglenteu.com/accessory/df2001a/)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: markus_jlrb on August 21, 2018, 09:20:25 pm
Dear Siglent support staff,

I have a problem to understand why my signal measured
always change his zero level on the screen, see my attachments.
I had played arround with tdr measurements on coax cables.
Although I use the DC level for my CH1 the signals from
terminated, short and open state always change there base line.
Why? I expect all three sigs to be on the same zero base line.
It's looks like AC coupling is still enabeled for me.

Had I made an error in device control settings or has the fw
a problem with proper level drawing.

Thanks for helpful explanation on this issue and please
appologise if I'm wrong.

Markus a SDS2204C user.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on August 21, 2018, 09:31:30 pm
Check Trigger level and Trigger Holdoff relationships is all that springs to mind.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: markus_jlrb on August 22, 2018, 05:48:02 am
@tautech,

thanks for your prompt replay.
As you could see in the upper right corner of my screen dump,
the trigger level is always the same and my trigger coupling is
selected as DC. So I have no explanation for the level shift.
But I have found lest week some minor fw errors, concerning
Measurements selections. Im my case a selection of Amplitude
to be displayed. But as you could see in my attachment, when
selecting the type button to select the Parameter to be displayed
(Amplitude), sometimes not always, the selection is negated.
So this observation let ma arise the question if other selections
could be negated - means selecting DC coupeling the HW is
switching to AC coupling and vice versa.

Just a hint but not knowing if I'm right with my assumption.

Thanks for further clarification on this issue.

Markus
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on August 22, 2018, 05:57:20 am
Markus, that's weird !
Just to check, are you running latest FW: 1.2.2.2R10 ?

Please reinstall it as your mods might have something to do with the unexpected behavior.  ;)
I'll get my 2304X out after dinner and do some checks for you.
If I find anything I'll come back with an edit.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: markus_jlrb on August 22, 2018, 06:01:59 am
In addition to my previous posting a second question concerning the
measure functions arise and need please clarification.
It's a minor issue but nasty and perhaps not necessary.
I attached tow pictures showing a measure cycle of a signal (tri-
angle - 50kHz) that was stretched in the second picture by a higher
time base adjustment. The first pic shows three periods and the
second pic only a bit more then one period.
In both cases in the right upper corner the proper frequency is displayed,
but the measurement displayed in the upper left corner of the second
pic. is not able to show the frequency value (only **** is displayed).

What is the explanation for this behavior? In one case frequency could
be detected (algorithm for upper right corner) in the second case not.

Thanks for plausible explanation on this point.

Markus
 

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: markus_jlrb on August 22, 2018, 06:05:10 am
@tautech,

I will check with the orig fw. But my Amplitude selection problem
was definitively run under the last available fw.

Give you feedback tonight and thanks for additional effort .

Markus
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on August 22, 2018, 06:41:42 am
In addition to my previous posting a second question concerning the
measure functions arise and need please clarification.
It's a minor issue but nasty and perhaps not necessary.
I attached tow pictures showing a measure cycle of a signal (tri-
angle - 50kHz) that was stretched in the second picture by a higher
time base adjustment. The first pic shows three periods and the
second pic only a bit more then one period.
In both cases in the right upper corner the proper frequency is displayed,
but the measurement displayed in the upper left corner of the second
pic. is not able to show the frequency value (only **** is displayed).

What is the explanation for this behavior? In one case frequency could
be detected (algorithm for upper right corner) in the second case not.

Thanks for plausible explanation on this point.

Markus
Study this thread for understanding on DSO measurement inaccuracies:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/testing-dso-auto-measurements-accuracy-across-timebases/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/testing-dso-auto-measurements-accuracy-across-timebases/)

In brief some measurements are affected by the # of waveform periods displayed.
This is normal to some degree for many scopes that measure from the display.

For the previous Amplitude measurement selection issue I have zero problem selecting and de-selecting any measurements. As suggested, reinstall FW.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: markus_jlrb on August 22, 2018, 07:28:11 am
@tautech,

I know the problem with to short signal interval for propper
measurements calculations. But I'm wondering why in this
case the proper frequency is displayed in the top right corner.
If it would be a general problem both values have to be unknown.
And you know that the DSO stores more samples then displayed
at screen (memory depth) so there is more points available to
calculate frequency or period or other parameters from the
taken data.

So sorry to say but I'm not really happy with your explanation ;-)

Markus

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on August 22, 2018, 08:09:07 am
@tautech,

I know the problem with to short signal interval for propper
measurements calculations. But I'm wondering why in this
case the proper frequency is displayed in the top right corner.
If it would be a general problem both values have to be unknown.
And you know that the DSO stores more samples then displayed
at screen (memory depth) so there is more points available to
calculate frequency or period or other parameters from the
taken data.

So sorry to say but I'm not really happy with your explanation ;-)

Markus
AFAIK the HW frequency counter measures from the trigger path.

What you see is normal 2000X behavior and how you use the DSO determines the result.
Know your equipment.  ;)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: markus_jlrb on August 22, 2018, 08:23:02 am
@tautech,

"What you see is normal 2000X behavior"

For me it's "What you see is 2000X behavior",
but this is not normal - It's confusing and is not
consequent - sorry.

That's the reason why we discussing such issues
in this and other blogs in order to change this
"normal behavior" to "not acceptable behavior"

Just my opinion.

Markus 

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on August 22, 2018, 08:28:47 am
@tautech,

"What you see is normal 2000X behavior"

For me it's "What you see is 2000X behavior",
but this is not normal - It's confusing and is not
consequent - sorry.

That's the reason why we discussing such issues
in this and other blogs in order to change this
"normal behavior" to "not acceptable behavior"

Just my opinion.

Markus
Is the Measure selection problem fixed after re-installing FW ?

I respectfully suggest you spend some time checking measurement accuracy with a known sig gen and at various timebase settings so to get to know and understand your scope.
Just my opinion.  :)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: markus_jlrb on August 22, 2018, 08:45:14 am
@tautech,

I could do the requested verification with the orig fw today evening.
But I will also make some comparison with the 20 year old HP54503A
DSO as well with my 10 year old HMO3524 in order to check if this
behavior is really "normal" ;-)

Give you a feedback tonight.

Markus
 
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: StillTrying on August 22, 2018, 01:39:55 pm
I had played around with tdr measurements on coax cables. Although I use the DC level for my CH1 the signals from terminated, short and open state always change there base line.
Why? I expect all three sigs to be on the same zero base line.

Are you sure your tdr traces are not riding on top of a lower frequency such as 50Hz mains ripple.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: markus_jlrb on August 22, 2018, 02:02:21 pm
@StillTrying,

not sure but there is no difference if taking a singe shot as well as
running in auto mode.
So from this point I would doubt that there is a AC floating effect.
But to be on the save side I will do the measurement again tonight.
The only point that I could imagine is that my sig gen SDG6022X
have had on dc offset while doing my tdr tests - so I have to
verify it again. But I have used default values (impuls sig) and
changing only duration and no dc offset.
I will keep you informed on my results tonight.


Markus
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: markus_jlrb on August 23, 2018, 06:02:11 am
@tautech,
@all,

sorry - I have confirm that I had made an wrong adjustment on my sig. gen.
SDS6022X when doing my TDR measurements.
The observed offset mentioned above was ingested by the peak-2-peak
configuration instead of high/low level configuration where low should be zero
voltage.
That's an issue that should be taken into account when using the waveforms
sinus, triangle or rectangle and changing to puls waveform later.

So "mia culpa" ;-)

As you mentioned above - it's a mandatory thing to know his measurement device.

What's concerns the period/frequency value displayed during measurement mode,
I could confirm too, that my HMO scope behaves in the same manner, so you are
again right.
Yesterday I was not able to check this on the very old HP54503A as promised due
to an config nvmem error that prevent my device from booting.
I use it very seldom and It's now laying around for months unused.
I have to change the battery buffered config ram device  DS1230. Hoepfully finding
one.

So thanks for your explanation and patience.

Until next issue.

Btw. I forgot to upload the orig FW to check the other issue written about.
Will check that on Friday. Today night I'm offline ond off ;-)

Markus



 
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: mojoe on August 30, 2018, 09:23:58 pm
I just purchased an SDS2304X scope from Saelig. It included the promotion for MSO, AWG and serial decode if you buy the logic probe (everything but power analysis).

I just turned it on and all of the optional functions are listed as 30 day trial. I didn't find any paperwork with the scope, saying anything about the options, other than the invoice listing them.

Will these options turn permanent after the 30 days, or am I supposed to do something to turn them on?

The installed firmware is 1.2.2.2 R10. Is this the latest? Edit: Looks like it is the latest.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: GregDunn on August 30, 2018, 09:30:47 pm
Someone will need to provide the license codes to you.  Otherwise the options will expire at the end of 30 days.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on August 30, 2018, 09:52:36 pm
I just purchased an SDS2304X scope from Saelig. It included the promotion for MSO, AWG and serial decode if you buy the logic probe (everything but power analysis).

I just turned it on and all of the optional functions are listed as 30 day trial. I didn't find any paperwork with the scope, saying anything about the options, other than the invoice listing them.

Will these options turn permanent after the 30 days, or am I supposed to do something to turn them on?

The installed firmware is 1.2.2.2 R10. Is this the latest? Edit: Looks like it is the latest.
You need contact Saelig ASAP and inform them of their error.
Each option has its own license and you should get an authorization code for each that you go online with to the Siglent license website and select model, option and code into and it generates the license specific to your scope.
The website link is contained in the pdf with the license authorization code. IIRC it's a clickable link.
Each generated license then offers a printable sheet with the instruction of how to install so you can have a hard copy at the scope when you do it.

Someone will need to provide the license codes to you.  Otherwise the options will expire at the end of 30 days.
NOT true !
Trial options are free for 30 uses 'of the option' for the DSO's.

The SSA and SVA trial options are timed, ie. they count down based on ON time.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: mojoe on August 30, 2018, 10:02:55 pm
Thanks. I just emailed Saelig.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on August 30, 2018, 10:26:06 pm
Thanks. I just emailed Saelig.
Cool, please report the outcome.
FYI, I've PM'ed users Saelig and rickv14623 to bring this oversight to their attention.

BTW
They may not have had the option authorization codes on hand and have to get them from Siglent America but there should've been indication of this in your sales documentation. It could be all in hand and just you the buyer left out of the loop.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: saelig on August 31, 2018, 01:23:59 pm
Thanks. I just emailed Saelig.

Got your e-mail and I just replied. The license codes need to be generated and provided by Siglent directly and then we send them along to you. With the free trials to the software we always aim to get the hardware out to customers ASAP. We're contacting Siglent right now to make sure your codes are on their way so we can get them to you right away.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: mojoe on September 05, 2018, 11:14:06 pm
Still waiting on codes.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on September 05, 2018, 11:53:23 pm
Still waiting on codes.
They're coming.
Had a PM from Nate at Saelig just this morning.....he's onto getting them to you.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: mojoe on September 10, 2018, 06:20:21 pm
And still waiting. They must be creating these codes on stone tablets, by hand.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: saelig on September 12, 2018, 04:08:49 pm
Check your e-mail mojoe :)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: evgen.05 on September 26, 2018, 04:11:45 pm
New Firmware for SDS1202X-E http://old.siglentamerica.com//USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS1002X-E_1.3.23_EN.zip (http://old.siglentamerica.com//USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS1002X-E_1.3.23_EN.zip)

Quote
1.  Changed the displayed system information screen. From
ADS  version  of  1.3.23,  the  info  screen  now  shows  5
sections  of  software versions, including the OS version
ID.
2.  Added SCPI commands for Math waveforms (except FFT).
3.  Optimized  accuracy  of  horizontal  measurement,
especially  when  there  are  only  a  few  samples  in  very
small timebase.
4.  Added ability to disable one direction of the full duplex
encoders.
5.  Any arbitrary probe factor from 1e-6 to 1e6 can be set by
universal knob.
6.  Attenuation  and  invert  indicator  were  added  into  the
channel tab.
7.  There  are  some  times  of  quick  calibration  during
warming up the SDS XE. Added a menu below Utility to
disable the quick calibration so that the sampling can’t
be interrupted.
8.  Added SCPI to set up gated measurements on an SDS XE
scope and return the data.
9.  Supported exiting the on-screen keyboard by OK button.
10.  Fixed  the  bug  related  to  displaying  long  IC2  decoded
packets.
11.  Fixed  the  channel  inversion  bug  when  changing
timebase from 1ms to 2ms
12.  Fixed the bug: The setting of Educational mode can’t be
saved after power off.
13.  Fixed the bug: I2C address to 0x3F and the fist byte to
0x8C -trigger does not work
14.  Fixed  the  bug:  The  I2C  trigger  condition   "7  bit
Address&Data"  does  not  work  when   the  payload
contains only a   single byte.
15.  Fixed the bug: Looks like SDS1202X-E does not discard
incomplete bytes in the payload although they are easily
detectable.
16.  Optimized  decoded  data  of  I2C  and  got  rid  of  suffix
‘H’ and ‘A’.
17.  Fixed the bug: There is offset with Channel coupling of
GND.
18.  Fixed the bug of failing to save Pass/Fail mask to U disk.
19.  Fixed the bug: Save data as CSV , but the data does not
account for the vertical offset of the data.
20.  Fixed  the  bug:  The  binary  block  returned  by  the
WAVEFORM command contains the length of the block
in the “#9” header. This length is incorrect when the
NP option of the WFSU command is  used; the header
then gives the memory depth instead of the actual size of
the block.
21.  Fixed  the  bug  of  response  from  the  WAVEFORM
command prefixes the binary block with the string "ALL,"
even when "CHDR OFF" is used.
22.  Optimize self-calibration for channels.

Just updated my scope. Everything works fine
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: eplpwr on October 03, 2018, 03:48:12 pm
I got an SDM3065X and want to calibrate it. The software EasyTest is nowhere to be found. I have mailed Siglent HQ, only silence so far (4weeks). Are Siglents official policy not to let users calibrate their meters?

I will not specify why I want to cal my meter, I just want to have the ability to do so. This is to void all questions if my meter is out of spec or not, since it's not relevant to my question.

Cal procedures/commands for equipment from other vendors is readily available.

Has anyone got better luck than me?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on October 03, 2018, 07:18:06 pm
I got an SDM3065X and want to calibrate it. The software EasyTest is nowhere to be found. I have mailed Siglent HQ, only silence so far (4weeks). Are Siglents official policy not to let users calibrate their meters?

I will not specify why I want to cal my meter, I just want to have the ability to do so. This is to void all questions if my meter is out of spec or not, since it's not relevant to my question.

Cal procedures/commands for equipment from other vendors is readily available.

Has anyone got better luck than me?
At this time there seems not to be a English service manual for SDM3065X available so we can't be sure of the Cal process. There may or not be scripts needed for EasyTest and the 3065X may not follow the Cal procedure in the SDM3055 service manual.
Currently HQ is on Autumn break so there's no tech support available until next week.
So for the meanwhile all you can do is check your 3065X meets datasheet spec as a verification of its accuracy.

I have seen segments of a Chinese service manual so I know one exists and in time it will be translated and put online.

Did you get a Cal cert when it was new, it lists the calibration equipment used at the factory.
I have one for mine if you need that information.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: PAYY1 on October 26, 2018, 08:52:57 am
Looking for flash firmware for oscilloscope LeCroy waveace 102. Need a dump with s29gl032n90tfi04. Or with an oscilloscope like Siglent sds1102cn, sds1042c or Atten ads1102cm, ads1102c. With a screen of 5.7 inches.  Help me pliz.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tv84 on October 26, 2018, 09:05:54 pm
Looking for flash firmware for oscilloscope LeCroy waveace 102. Need a dump with s29gl032n90tfi04. Or with an oscilloscope like Siglent sds1102cn, sds1042c or Atten ads1102cm, ads1102c. With a screen of 5.7 inches.  Help me pliz.

I think the only versions available are the "L" versions. Never saw the 5.7" ones.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: PAYY1 on October 29, 2018, 07:06:10 am
Hello! Thanks for the reply. These are the first models. A part of the flash memory has been spoiled. The device does not start at all. Would have been a dump without a problem would have done. I wrote the answer to the manufacturer.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on October 29, 2018, 07:15:10 am
Hello! Thanks for the reply. These are the first models. A part of the flash memory has been spoiled. The device does not start at all. Would have been a dump without a problem would have done. I wrote the answer to the manufacturer.
Some old units would boot freeze randomly and the remedy was to press Math repeatedly at boot.
Try several times if not successful initially.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: PAYY1 on October 29, 2018, 09:55:21 am
Thanks for the answer. Yes I tried this solution but did not help. Dismantled the flush and sewed the firmware from the 7 inch oscilloscope. Now the device is loaded but the image is not synchronized. Native firmware is saved but with it there is no launch.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: cvanc on December 04, 2018, 05:52:29 pm
I'd like to ask a question or two about the SDM3045X multimeter.

Can it use Relative mode when displaying AC volts as dB?

Can it use Relative mode when displaying AC volts as dBm?

I'm thinking about audio path alignment using sine wave test signals.

In other words, can I set my DUT to whatever the initial conditions are, read the value in either dB or dBm, and then engage Relative mode to make the meter read 0?

Thank you.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: BillB on December 04, 2018, 06:08:12 pm
I'd like to ask a question or two about the SDM3045X multimeter.

Can it use Relative mode when displaying AC volts as dB?

Can it use Relative mode when displaying AC volts as dBm?


I'm not answering for Siglent Support, but I just happened to have my SDM3045X in front of me as I read this, and I was able to use relative mode in both situations.  In the math functions db/dbm menu you can set a reference value.  For dB you can measure or enter a reference and use relative mode from that, and for the dBm function you can enter the reference and use relative mode from that. 
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 04, 2018, 06:20:31 pm
I'd like to ask a question or two about the SDM3045X multimeter.

Can it use Relative mode when displaying AC volts as dB?

Can it use Relative mode when displaying AC volts as dBm?


I'm not answering for Siglent Support, but I just happened to have my SDM3045X in front of me as I read this, and I was able to use relative mode in both situations.  In the math functions db/dbm menu you can set a reference value.  For dB you can measure or enter a reference and use relative mode from that, and for the dBm function you can enter the reference and use relative mode from that.
Thanks Bill for checking for me as with only a 3065X in front of me I wasn't sure it had the same UI.

Here's a SDM3065X screenshot although you need enter into another menu to capture it so loose capturing the dB and dBm options.
Open leads on the bench:
 
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: BillB on December 04, 2018, 07:34:31 pm
Here is the screenshot of the SDM3045X db function menu (via EasyDMM)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: jorgecam on December 11, 2018, 05:33:24 am
Hello, I have purchased a SDS1204X-E 4CH oscilloscope and I have the following problem:

I place a 36 MHz 3 cycles burst in channel 1 and everything works ok until I enable channel 2. In that moment the trigger becomes erratic, randomly jumping between the first and the second edge of the signal.

The problem coincides with the fact that the oscilloscope changes the sampling rate from 1 Gs/s to 500 Ms/s when I enable channel 2.

The same happens when I have only channel 1 enabled (1Gs/s) but the signal has more than 72 MHz.

You can see the problem here: https://youtu.be/stSIxn6YvJU

I updated firmware from SDS1004X-E_6.1.25R2_EN to SDS1004X-E_6.1.26_EN and the problem persits.

best regards,
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: colorado.rob on December 22, 2018, 05:48:43 am
Hi folks,

Is it possible to improve the accuracy of the frequency counter in the SSA3021X when measuring lower frequencies?

I am measuring the frequency of a 32.768kHz oscillator using a few different instruments and was attempting to use my SA for this.  The SCPI command allows me to grab the frequency from the first marker when it is in "Frequency Counter" mode.  And it returns a fairly high-precision value which made me hopeful that I would get accuracy commensurate with that precision.

Here is an example of the values being returned over a 10 second range (using ":CALC:MARK1:FCO:X?"):

32768.440874
32768.419710
32768.641872
32768.389504
32768.477576
32768.406108
32768.362412
32768.185883
32768.433046
32768.944028

The frequency counter in the SDG2212X tells me that it is running at 32768.011Hz with a SDev of 0.100ppm.  Both instruments are being clocked by the same 10MHz reference.

Alas, that precision seems to be unwarranted give th SA's lack of accuracy at lower frequencies.

Is there any way to get more accurate and precise frequency measurement from the SA at lower frequencies?  1Hz resolution is great at 1GHz.  But it is rather poor at 10kHz.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Rerouter on December 22, 2018, 06:15:34 am
While I cannot say with certainty, the frequency counter on there scopes is based upon a triggering level that you set, There is nothing similar on your device? I'm imagining its counting off the crest of a wave rather than the slope.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: colorado.rob on December 22, 2018, 06:33:06 am
While I cannot say with certainty, the frequency counter on there scopes is based upon a triggering level that you set, There is nothing similar on your device? I'm imagining its counting off the crest of a wave rather than the slope.
The SSA3021X is a spectrum analyzer, not an oscilloscope.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Rerouter on December 22, 2018, 07:56:27 am
Yes, to clarify, the counter is either hardware, in which case its a comparitor set at some level, or in software and is essentially a cursor value, in which case its limited to how accurately the spectrum analyser can resolve it.

If its a hardware counter, there should be a way for you to set the amplitude you want it to trigger at, if its software I do not know if it can recover the frequency to such a high accuracy to measure ppm.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: jazper on December 22, 2018, 08:35:42 am
Siglent:

Could you please fix your firmware for the SDS1x00 series with respect to the WiFi.

The changes that would be nice are:

Ability to set SSIDs with spaces in them
Passwords hidden after entry
Ability to have special characters in both passwords and SSIDs.

Thankyou.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 23, 2018, 08:03:21 am
Siglent thanks you all for your support and feedback over the past year and wishes you well for the festive season and the year ahead.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=603469)

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tinhead on December 29, 2018, 11:41:01 am
@tautech, any idea what are the SDS1x04X-E differences between HW1.3 and HW1.4
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 29, 2018, 11:52:57 am
@tautech, any idea what are the SDS1x04X-E differences between HW1.3 and HW1.4
Sorry no, not yet.
I’d have to look at what versions I have when I get home.....with any luck I might have some of each.
Be another few weeks before I need some more.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Rerouter on December 29, 2018, 01:41:44 pm
So far there is atleast a new FPGA bitstream version in the HW1.4 scope, currently finding out if that applies to any scope with the 8. software, or just the new hardware version. as another poster had version 8 with HW1.3
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: cvanc on December 29, 2018, 05:53:50 pm
Can the histogram function on SDM3045X be used to record the transient behavior (DC settling) of a signal over a moderate period of time (say, ten to sixty seconds)?

If yes, how is this data displayed and can a screenshot be exported out of the meter for use in a document?

If yes, what are the minimum and maximum time window settings for such a histogram?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 29, 2018, 11:20:05 pm
Can the histogram function on SDM3045X be used to record the transient behavior (DC settling) of a signal over a moderate period of time (say, ten to sixty seconds)?

If yes, how is this data displayed and can a screenshot be exported out of the meter for use in a document?

If yes, what are the minimum and maximum time window settings for such a histogram?

Thanks.
This thread and post should provide all the answers you seek:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg1440594/#msg1440594 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg1440594/#msg1440594)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tinhead on December 29, 2018, 11:40:00 pm
So far there is atleast a new FPGA bitstream version in the HW1.4 scope, currently finding out if that applies to any scope with the 8. software, or just the new hardware version. as another poster had version 8 with HW1.3

it can't be any 8., i have brand new 8., but hw 1.3
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Rerouter on December 30, 2018, 12:12:34 am
Care to open your top_sds1000b_fpga.bin in a text editor, and see what your bitstream creation date is, the HW4 one is 7z020clg484 2018/07/26
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tinhead on December 30, 2018, 04:28:44 pm
Care to open your top_sds1000b_fpga.bin in a text editor, and see what your bitstream creation date is, the HW4 one is 7z020clg484 2018/07/26

sure, my SDS displays HW1.3, but FPGA bitstream is from 2018/07/26 and binary equal to the one in 6.1.26 firmware, that's why i'm wondering what the real difference can be.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tv84 on December 30, 2018, 05:12:42 pm
The difference is really in the HW. If it was in the FW, it would show a different FW release.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: t1d on January 06, 2019, 12:21:12 am
I have a new SDS1104X-E. The power button blinks, when the unit is off. I am not so much concerned that the unit draws power, when off, if power is needed to maintain settings, or for some other logical reason. However, the light does not need to blink, when the unit is in this state.

A blinking light is a warning, in my/any lab. So, it is a violation of safety protocol and a constant source of concern, which requires verification, over and over.

I have seen this noted in this thread, but I did not find a solution posted. That doesn't mean that the answer is not available, it just means I did not catch it. Further, I have done my due diligence to search the manual, internet, and forum.

If you know the solution, or the location of it, please advise. Thank you for your help.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: bugi on January 06, 2019, 12:37:38 pm
A blinking light is a warning, in my/any lab. So, it is a violation of safety protocol and a constant source of concern, which requires verification, over and over.
As a side note, almost all laptops I've seen use blinking light (on power LED) to indicate being in sleep/hibernate state. (Then again, some also use blinking light on battery/charge LED for warning, e.g. broken battery.)
I also have some devices that indicate being on by blinking (or more like flashing), but those are low-power battery-powered, so constant LED would use too much energy.
I've also seen devices that use blinking to indicate they are waiting for something ("ready to go/do").
Some routers/switches/modems use blinking light to indicate communication activity, though it is more common to flash the LED based on the activity, so those variants have more rapid and unsteady rate.
I have several battery chargers that indicate the charging status by blinking, some with changing pattern as the charging goes on. Once fully charged, the LED(s) are either continuously on or turned off. One charger indicated failure by continuous red LED (definitely a design flaw, considering red-green blindness).

So the blinking is not universally a warning. But I guess in a lab where warnings are to be taken seriously, there could be different standards to follow. I have only been in labs where the dangers were small enough that blinking wasn't a rule, but in some labs (and whatnot to call them) there was obligatory tour on the emergency shutdown knobs and exits.

The blinking power button when in standby (or "off-but-not-really-off") applies also to at least SDS2000X. Doesn't bother me, I almost always turn the power completely off also with an extension cord that has a switch (or simply unplug the scope). Afaik, at least that 2000X does not need power (at all) to keep the settings.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: colorado.rob on January 07, 2019, 01:44:07 pm
Siglent,

Please update the SDS programming manual.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-e/msg2098552/#msg2098552 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-e/msg2098552/#msg2098552)

Missing decoder SCPI commands.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Tjuurko on February 11, 2019, 08:30:39 am
A few questions about new SDM3065X-SC
SW Version ID:  3.01.01.06R2

1. What's new in this firmware?

2. How to get rid of interference when measuring large resistances (2/4 wire)?
Similar was observed on the SDM3055.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on February 11, 2019, 08:38:56 am
A few questions about new SDM3065X-SC
SW Version ID:  3.01.01.06R2

1. What's new in this firmware?
Dunno, just a few days ago sent this same question to the factory as this 6R2 FW is not yet available to download.
Sometimes Siglent does this, install a new FW at the factory soon to be followed with an official release that's sometimes even a later version.

Quote
2. How to get rid of interference when measuring large resistances (2/4 wire)?
Similar was observed on the SDM3055.
Coax leads would be my first thought.
My 4 wire Kelvin clips are a shielded type.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: BillB on February 11, 2019, 11:55:47 pm
Quote
2. How to get rid of interference when measuring large resistances (2/4 wire)?
Similar was observed on the SDM3055.
Coax leads would be my first thought.
My 4 wire Kelvin clips are a shielded type.

Tautech, I'm interesting in seeing your clips?  My 3055s with my non-shielded clips pick up a wave of my hand from 10 feet away when measuring high resistance.  These have the banana plugs on the end like the first picture.  I purchased a set previously with shielded cables and BNCs for my DE-5000, but that has a guard terminal.       
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on February 12, 2019, 12:18:18 am
Tautech, I'm interesting in seeing your clips? 
I got mine from Pintek when I got some other stuff from them but they weren't cheap.  :o
RP-93:
http://www.pintek.com.tw/files/pintek/RP-91-92-93-DM-frond.pdf (http://www.pintek.com.tw/files/pintek/RP-91-92-93-DM-frond.pdf)

The short split leads that connect to the Kelvin clips are quite stiff when they should be a nice supple silicone lead pair IMHO. I questioned their use of PCV leads to the clips and they took this on-board for future product improvements.
Still, I'm not sure if Pintek are really the OEM for these Kelvin 4w leads or not.

If your time to make some is not precious grab the bits needed from Franky's store:
https://www.ebay.com/str/99centhobbies (https://www.ebay.com/str/99centhobbies)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: TheDefpom on February 14, 2019, 06:04:11 am
I just installed the latest 3.01.01.06R2 FW for the SDM3065X, I cannot see any obvious differences yet, I guess we will find out when a changeling is published.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: josip on February 18, 2019, 01:41:50 pm
Is it possible to have on SDS 1202X-E display measured signal(s) / net only on full screen, without bottom menu, network icon on right bottom corner and channel(s) / trigger info on right side?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on February 18, 2019, 02:55:45 pm
Is it possible to have on SDS 1202X-E display measured signal(s) / net only on full screen, without bottom menu, network icon on right bottom corner and channel(s) / trigger info on right side?
No.
Only main menu can be hidden with the Menu button near the Power button.
If you need more info on the display use Zoom at a slow main timebase then use a faster timebase in Zoom mode and H Position to walk through the waveform info.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: josip on February 20, 2019, 01:48:09 pm
No.
Only main menu can be hidden with the Menu button near the Power button.
If you need more info on the display use Zoom at a slow main timebase then use a faster timebase in Zoom mode and H Position to walk through the waveform info.

I don't see any point in hidden menu, because signal viewing area will not resize. Menu will be replaced with black background.

Let say that there is some menu on LED TV that steal area from picture. When setup is done, menu disappear, and user can enjoy in full size movie. During changing audio volume, level is displayed on LED TV, and when it is done, disappear again.

I don't see any reason why option that enable similar behavior like LED TV for example, not exist on scope. When I complete all channels setup, I don't need to see anything on scope except signals waveform on full screen. Coding on PC, and manually triggering from PC. Just turning my head to scope to see what changed on waveform.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on February 20, 2019, 04:01:28 pm
No.
Only main menu can be hidden with the Menu button near the Power button.
If you need more info on the display use Zoom at a slow main timebase then use a faster timebase in Zoom mode and H Position to walk through the waveform info.

I don't see any point in hidden menu, because signal viewing area will not resize. Menu will be replaced with black background.
In Decode mode, the decoded line fills the space where the menus were when they are OFF.

In the SDS1004X-E main thread we discussed other uses for the menu space like using it for more measurements.
Maybe we can discuss it more there:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: bugi on February 20, 2019, 09:26:36 pm
I don't see any reason why option that enable similar behavior like LED TV for example, not exist on scope. When I complete all channels setup, I don't need to see anything on scope except signals waveform on full screen. Coding on PC, and manually triggering from PC. Just turning my head to scope to see what changed on waveform.
Just a quick note that it would need to indeed be an option, as there are cases where the menu/settings staying visible is actually important. Scopes are often doing/showing a little bit more complex stuff than a TV channel which you forget as soon as your brains drop to entertainment mode, and it can be important to see more than just the waveform (or its mere change), so comparing to TV isn't quite fitting, although it is otherwise a clear example case. And then there is sometimes the need show the current settings in a screenshot.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: scottLobster on February 23, 2019, 07:51:06 am
Hey guys, I'm having an issue with the SPI triggering/decoding on my SDS1202X-E.  First time using it, wondering if I need to file a warranty claim or if I'm just missing something:

I rigged up an Arduino to send a test SPI byte every half second, and can confirm that MOSI/MISO/CLK/CS signals are there via edge triggering.  However  upon switching to SPI triggering the scope doesn't trigger regardless of any configuration I've been able to come up with in the last four hours.  |O Google brought me to you guys! :)


Things I've tried so far: 


So is there anything obvious I missed in the above?  Could the scope be expecting a specific clock frequency for SPI?  Is there a special required combination of inputs (given that his is a 4-part signal on a 2-channel scope)? Or can someone give me a confirmed list of steps that work so I can confirm if SPI triggering is broken or not?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Performa01 on February 23, 2019, 08:31:52 am
@scottLobster, I cannot know your exact settings, but here is what could go wrong when even [All Same X] refuses to trigger:

- wrong data length
- wrong signal settings

Be aware that serial triggers and decoders are completely separate modules and have their individual settings (data length, bit order, channel assignments, threshold levels), which should be the same for both.

In order to avoid setting up everything twice, there is the [Copy Setting] menu in the decoder, which allows to set up the trigger by using [Copy To Trig]. Of course this assumes that the decoder is already set up properly, especially the signals and their respective threshold levels.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on February 23, 2019, 08:57:48 am
I followed the "SPI Triggering and Serial Decode" section of the manual here (linked to from the SDS1202X-E product page): https://mediacdn.eu/mage/media/downloads/SDS1104X-E_User_Manual_UM0101E-E02B.pdf (https://mediacdn.eu/mage/media/downloads/SDS1104X-E_User_Manual_UM0101E-E02B.pdf)  Still no triggering.
Latest manual is here:
https://www.siglentamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2017/10/SDS1000X-E_UserManul_UM0101E-E03A-1.pdf (https://www.siglentamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2017/10/SDS1000X-E_UserManul_UM0101E-E03A-1.pdf)

Quote
Updated my firmware to 5.1.3.13 (The latest I could find)
Latest version is 1.3.23 and you can find it here:
https://www.siglentamerica.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-oscilloscopes/#sds1000x-e-series (https://www.siglentamerica.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-oscilloscopes/#sds1000x-e-series)

A note for the future, Siglent websites have the most up to date support for manuals and software, I strongly recommend you get your needs from them as they are most up to date.

For further assistance with your decode issues, use the Print button to grab screenshots onto a USB stick and upload them into a post using the Attachments link at the foot of the posting page.

Now some tips, 500ms bytes will have you into Roll mode, much slower than typical data streams so speed things up a little so you can use 50ms/div or faster. You can set custom Baud rates but maybe use one of the standard ones in the Decode menus. If just using an Edge trigger, multiple edges within a packet will cause the scope to retrigger so set the Holdoff to a little longer than the packet for stable triggering.....you need stable triggering first to get any meaningful result.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: TheDefpom on February 23, 2019, 09:47:32 am
Watch my review video for the SDS1104X-E (I’m pretty sure I showed serial decoding).

#320 Siglent SDS 1104X-E 4 Channel Scope Review
https://youtu.be/kuiDj1iwOwk

I have other Siglent scope reviews as well, so you may want to refer to those also if this one isnt clear enough.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: scottLobster on February 23, 2019, 07:01:47 pm
Well, it's working now.  Thanks for the responses guys!

I'm honestly not sure exactly what I did.  I updated the firmware to 1.3.23, but even after that and confirming settings for the 12th time it still didn't trigger on the SPI signal.  To see if this was a more systemic issue with serial triggering I switched over to UART (and correspondingly switched the Arduino to produce a UART signal) and was able to get a semi-stable image of the signal with UART triggering, gave up on trying to stabilize it perfectly (having confirmed that the serial trigger was at least working somewhat), and switched back to SPI.  And now it's working fine. 

Best theory I can come up with is the UART triggering caused something in the serial triggering circuitry to reinitialize, perhaps combined with the firmware upgrade.  But that's a wild guess.

Regardless, appreciate the help!




Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Rerouter on February 23, 2019, 08:07:43 pm
The settings for UART and SPI are pretty well isolated on these devices (most of the parameters are seperatly stored) And that setting file is one of the few things that persist across power cycles, Did you set the correct thresholds for your SPI signals?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: mroek on February 23, 2019, 11:56:10 pm
I've just started playing with my new SDS1104X-E (came with the latest firmware installed), and I have a couple of minor bug reports, so I figured this thread might be the place. The first one isn't really a bug, it is just a minor spelling mistake. If you go to save/recall and recall the factory setup, the on-screen pop-up notification (after the operation is finished) uses the word "Defaut" instead of "Default" (I don't remember the full sentence, and I don't want to default my scope at the moment to check). I suggest Siglent engineers just do a search in their language files for this word, in case it's been copy/pasted also to other places.

The other one is a very minor UI bug. If you enable for example channel 1 and 2, and then press the button for channel 2 twice (to turn that channel off), then the oscilloscope automatically lights up the button for channel 1 (as it should), but the soft menu at the bottom of the screen still pertains to channel 2, which has just been turned off. To get the correct menu for channel 1, you need to press the button for channel 1 again.

It would be natural if the soft menu actually followed the channel button that is lit (unless of course some other menu is used). Not really a problem, just slightly illogical.

I also have a feature request, and that is to have two math channels, where the second math channel can be used for less demading operations (not FFT, obviously). The main reason for this wish is to be able to use all four channels to act as two "poor man's differential probes". A second math channel would allow this, and would be very nice to have, even if this method has obvious limitations if high accuracy is needed.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 27, 2019, 05:07:54 am
Firmware upgrades for SDS2000X and SDS2000X-E models available from the support web pages:

https://www.siglentamerica.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/ (https://www.siglentamerica.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/)
https://www.siglenteu.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/ (https://www.siglenteu.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/)
http://www.siglent.com/ENs/gjjrj.aspx?id=15 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/gjjrj.aspx?id=15)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: 2N3055 on March 27, 2019, 08:42:38 am
When will the updates for  SDG6000X be available?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 28, 2019, 05:01:39 am
When will the updates for  SDG6000X be available?
FYI, latest units come with 6.0.01.29R10, available on Siglent websites.

I'll ask the factory when a newer version is expected.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: 2N3055 on March 28, 2019, 09:58:43 am
When will the updates for  SDG6000X be available?
FYI, latest units come with 6.0.01.29R10, available on Siglent websites.

I'll ask the factory when a newer version is expected.

Yep, that's the version mine came with.. It has few bugs (TurboTom documented them well, i had few new glitches myself)..
Nice, capable hardware, once debugged will be great siggen. In comparison with Rigol, I miss AWG waveform preview when selecting, and sequence mode (to be able to stitch a sequence of different waveforms).

Anyways, i appreciate your help.
Thanks !
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Rerouter on March 28, 2019, 10:04:54 am
And may as well ask, any time frames on when the 1000x-e may see an update?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: colorado.rob on March 28, 2019, 12:42:40 pm
Firmware upgrades for SDS2000X and SDS2000X-E models available from the support web pages:

https://www.siglentamerica.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/ (https://www.siglentamerica.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/)
https://www.siglenteu.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/ (https://www.siglenteu.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/)
http://www.siglent.com/ENs/gjjrj.aspx?id=15 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/gjjrj.aspx?id=15)
Holy shit! They actually made digital channels available via SCPI on the 2000X.  I've been asking for this for years.  Always told it's not possible.

Way to go, Siglent!   :clap:
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 28, 2019, 08:41:53 pm
Firmware upgrades for SDS2000X and SDS2000X-E models available from the support web pages:

https://www.siglentamerica.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/ (https://www.siglentamerica.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/)
https://www.siglenteu.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/ (https://www.siglenteu.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/)
http://www.siglent.com/ENs/gjjrj.aspx?id=15 (http://www.siglent.com/ENs/gjjrj.aspx?id=15)
Holy shit! They actually made digital channels available via SCPI on the 2000X.  I've been asking for this for years.  Always told it's not possible.

Way to go, Siglent!   :clap:
Yes I did a double take on that too.  :o
I well remember you asking for it.


No reply from the factory as yet WRT other FW release dates.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 29, 2019, 06:12:50 am
When will the updates for  SDG6000X be available?
FYI, latest units come with 6.0.01.29R10, available on Siglent websites.

I'll ask the factory when a newer version is expected.

Yep, that's the version mine came with.. It has few bugs (TurboTom documented them well, i had few new glitches myself)..
Nice, capable hardware, once debugged will be great siggen. In comparison with Rigol, I miss AWG waveform preview when selecting, and sequence mode (to be able to stitch a sequence of different waveforms).

Anyways, i appreciate your help.
Thanks !
Some good news:
1. SDG6000X firmware is ~4 weeks away.
2. IQ option will be enabled for 30 trial uses.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tv84 on March 29, 2019, 12:04:25 pm
... option will be enabled for 30 trial uses.

Isn't that a novelty for Siglent?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 29, 2019, 07:17:01 pm
... option will be enabled for 30 trial uses.

Isn't that a novelty for Siglent?
For the SDG6000X yes, in that for the IQ option no free trial use period was previously available.

Strangely enough I asked if IQ trial usages were available a couple of weeks back and someone in Siglent must have thought it was a good idea to add it into the next firmware or they were working on adding it already.

This addition of free trial usages for SDG6kX now matches all other existing product lines that have either 30 trial usages or a timed hour usage count down for their paid options.

It's not the first time we've seen Siglent add an free option usage period into existing equipment, for SDS2000 and later 2kX versions when Power Analysis option was released it came with a free trial usage period.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Plasmateur on April 08, 2019, 04:50:21 am
Please, please, please make the following features available for the following products.

SDG2000X
SDG6000X


1.) -----
Both channels can burst off a software trigger, instead of just one channel or the other.
It would be exactly as if the AUX port had received a trigger signal. (Is this really that hard to implement?)

It would be even better if a software trigger could burst both channels and the AUX port sends it's square pulse as well.

------------------------------------------------------

2.) -----
Burst and Sweep enabled at the same time. This really needs to be a thing.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: 2N3055 on April 08, 2019, 08:10:59 am
Please, please, please make the following features available for the following products.

SDG2000X
SDG6000X

................
2.) -----
Burst and Sweep enabled at the same time. This really needs to be a thing.

1.Burst and Sweep enabled at the same time. That would be awesome.
2. And again, Sequence mode, like Rigol and Keysight have. 
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: janekivi on April 09, 2019, 07:22:34 pm
Always have been using siglent.com as an source of "educationally interesting" firmware files,
but now it is somehow... expired? Is this end of Siglent?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: BillB on April 09, 2019, 07:26:55 pm
Always have been using siglent.com as an source of "educationally interesting" firmware files,
but now it is somehow... expired? Is this end of Siglent?

Yikes!  Maybe they forgot to pay their hosting bill?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on April 09, 2019, 07:28:37 pm
Always have been using siglent.com as an source of "educationally interesting" firmware files,
but now it is somehow... expired? Is this end of Siglent?
:-DD
Yeah I noticed their servers were down.

Wee hours in the morning there ATM so hopefully websites will be up in the next few hours.
You can still get your "educationally interesting" files here: https://www.siglenteu.com/service-and-support/ (https://www.siglenteu.com/service-and-support/)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: th_sak on April 16, 2019, 07:02:18 pm
Hello Siglent support,

Please have a look at this post about a malfunctioning SDM3065x.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg2347308/#msg2347308 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg2347308/#msg2347308)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on May 13, 2019, 09:30:46 am
For the fanboys, a wall poster.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=734280)

Real size 1.2m x 1m.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: markus_jlrb on June 24, 2019, 06:49:39 am
Dear Siglent staff,

someone there who could explain to me the difference
in HW version 02-02-00-05-00 vers 01-01-00-02-00 of the
SDM3065X device.

Is there a drawback baying a 01-01-00-02-00 device
instead of the 02-02-00-05-00 version, concerning
precision, stability or lifetime of such a device?

Many thanks in advance.

Markus
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: markus_jlrb on June 24, 2019, 10:57:09 am
Dear Siglent staff,

a second question concerning the SDM3065X.
Is there a possibility to scale a voltage measured
via a current shunt in order to match the display.
Many shunts offered will have a 75mV full range
voltage at the terminals.
100mV shunts are difficult to find and they are
more expensive.
perhaps this could be done by the math menu?

Many thanks in advance for your feedback.

Markus
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on July 04, 2019, 08:59:22 pm
New firmware for SDS1202X-E posted here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds-1202x-e-firmware-update/msg2526168/#msg2526168 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds-1202x-e-firmware-update/msg2526168/#msg2526168)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on July 08, 2019, 01:26:32 am
Latest updated product catalogue:
https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/8263/ (https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/8263/)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: JPortici on July 08, 2019, 09:58:27 am
"Built -in 25 MHz Function / Arbitrary Waveform     Generator (Optional)"
Not built-in, it's an external box. Also it doesn't highlight that it has an ISOLATED output
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: e0ne199 on July 09, 2019, 02:26:00 pm
New firmware for SDS1202X-E posted here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds-1202x-e-firmware-update/msg2526168/#msg2526168 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds-1202x-e-firmware-update/me sg2526168/#msg2526168)

i see on another thread that there is an issue related with csv files on the newest firmware for sds1204x-e.. is it now fixed??
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on July 09, 2019, 08:25:21 pm
New firmware for SDS1202X-E posted here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds-1202x-e-firmware-update/msg2526168/#msg2526168 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds-1202x-e-firmware-update/me sg2526168/#msg2526168)

i see on another thread that there is an issue related with csv files on the newest firmware for sds1204x-e.. is it now fixed??
Not sure what csv issue you refer to.   :-//
Link please.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Rerouter on July 09, 2019, 09:53:15 pm
Have not yet loaded to my device. Any news on if they fixed up the typos I reported for SCPI commands?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on July 09, 2019, 10:00:58 pm
Have not yet loaded to my device. Any news on if they fixed up the typos I reported for SCPI commands?
C'mon Rerouter, are we expected to be clairvoyant.....how can we know what model you have.  :-//

Check the release notes but they don't always have all the minor changes listed......for any SCPI typos maybe there's edits required to the Programming manual too.

I just don't get why ppls are so reluctant to install new FW when it becomes available.  :-//
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: StillTrying on July 09, 2019, 10:30:10 pm
I just don't get why ppls are so reluctant to install new FW when it becomes available.  :-//

I do, if it's not broke, don't try to fix it. :)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Rerouter on July 10, 2019, 02:28:21 am
Being in a different part of the country than my scope may be a contributing factor  :-+

1104x-e.

When I'm back home I'll be searching though. As the merge with the 5000 series left some nice hints at what directions theu where developing things.

As to still trying. It still has over 2 dozen commands as of the last firmware that if you gave it anything in incorrect formatting or out of range would softlock the scope and require a power cycle. If you never use that side of it. Then its very hard to get into a softlock state
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on July 10, 2019, 02:39:10 am
1104x-e.
It still has over 2 dozen commands as of the last firmware that if you gave it anything in incorrect formatting or out of range would softlock the scope and require a power cycle. If you never use that side of it. Then its very hard to get into a softlock state.
Ok, are any of the documented SCPI commands troublesome ?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Rerouter on July 10, 2019, 02:50:57 am
Attach a link to the most current programming guide and I can check for you.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on July 10, 2019, 02:56:14 am
Attach a link to the most current programming guide and I can check for you.
Version E02B
https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/2617/ (https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/2617/)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: jhiesey on July 10, 2019, 08:35:54 am
Hi, I'm having a problem with the bode plot functionality on my SDS1204X-E. I made a separate post about it here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-bode-plot-glitches!/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-bode-plot-glitches!/)

Overall the scope has worked great so far other than this, although it does have some annoying user interface quirks.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on July 15, 2019, 10:09:39 pm
Dual rack mount.

A new dual rack mount is listed as # SDG-2-RMK on P85 of the latest product catalog:
https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/8263/ (https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/8263/)

Rackmount kit for two instruments , compatible with the SDG800, SDG1000, SDG1000X,SDG2000X, SDG5000 and SDG6000X series function generators and SDM3045X, SDM3055, SDM3065X digital multimeters
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: McBryce on July 30, 2019, 08:03:35 pm
Hi,
    I just picked up an SHS806. I need to use it in inverted display mode as I will be using it in a relatively dark environment. But if I set it to inverted display and restart the scope it reverts to white background with a white square partially covering the menu options and will only display properly after I have chosen the display option again. Has this bug been documented already?

Also, the scope came with Firmware 5.09.01.07 installed, but the latest I can find online is 5.09.01.05 - Is this an official version and where can I find a later version?

McBryce.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on July 30, 2019, 09:05:26 pm
Hi,
    I just picked up an SHS806. I need to use it in inverted display mode as I will be using it in a relatively dark environment. But if I set it to inverted display and restart the scope it reverts to white background with a white square partially covering the menu options and will only display properly after I have chosen the display option again. Has this bug been documented already?

Also, the scope came with Firmware 5.09.01.07 installed, but the latest I can find online is 5.09.01.05 - Is this an official version and where can I find a later version?

McBryce.
1.07 appears to be the latest factory version and not yet released publically.
I'll point Siglent to your post as it sounds like a bug. Don't have an 806 now so don't know if it was pre-existing 1.05 issue of not, sorry.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: pantelei4 on July 31, 2019, 04:27:25 am
I just picked up an SHS806. I need to use it in inverted display mode as I will be using it in a relatively dark environment.
In the inverse mode of the display, the reading of menu symbols is bad, the color gamut is chosen incorrectly. It can not be used.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: hfleming on August 02, 2019, 03:59:50 pm
Hello Siglent support, I saw a few users were able to fix their Siglent equipment stuck on the bootup screen. Now my SSA3021X has decided to do the same. Can anybody help me?

Hendrik
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on August 02, 2019, 07:49:14 pm
Hello Siglent support, I saw a few users were able to fix their Siglent equipment stuck on the bootup screen. Now my SSA3021X has decided to do the same. Can anybody help me?

Hendrik
Suggestions by PM given.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: evgen.05 on August 26, 2019, 03:36:28 pm
found a bug in latest firmware SDS1202X-E. In Trigger setup menu when the source trigger is changed - it's not right shown in menu

UPD. Something is strange. After 3 times of reboot - bug still present. But after playing with all trigger settings -  everything is OK and source trigger is redrawing good.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: uargo on August 26, 2019, 08:07:52 pm
Hello my question is for "Siglent", I have the sds1104x-e oscilloscope and when I enter FFT or serial decoding, I press the Trigger setup with the knob I can adjust the trigger level, but the line does not appear on the screen, it is a bug Did you know about this? seems to be random
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on August 27, 2019, 05:50:12 am
found a bug in latest firmware SDS1202X-E. In Trigger setup menu when the source trigger is changed - it's not right shown in menu

UPD. Something is strange. After 3 times of reboot - bug still present. But after playing with all trigger settings -  everything is OK and source trigger is redrawing good.
What do you see as wrong ?
I just checked SDS1104X-E and it seems all is OK. I can see how the trigger display box info could be confusing listing Edge and AC Line but this makes sense as you can still select to trigger on rising or falling edges of your signal while using mains frequency as the trigger reference.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on August 27, 2019, 06:01:00 am
Hello my question is for "Siglent", I have the sds1104x-e oscilloscope and when I enter FFT or serial decoding, I press the Trigger setup with the knob I can adjust the trigger level, but the line does not appear on the screen, it is a bug Did you know about this? seems to be random
Welcome to the forum.

With 6.1.33 firmware and Auto Edge triggering in FFT mode it works as expected. (source and FFT displayed)
The trigger level line shows when manual adjustments are made and when the level knob is pressed to set to 50%.

Did you see this using Auto or Normal triggering or another FFT mode ?
USB screenshots can help us see if there is a issue.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: evgen.05 on August 27, 2019, 06:19:47 am
What do you see as wrong ?
I just checked SDS1104X-E and it seems all is OK. I can see how the trigger display box info could be confusing listing Edge and AC Line but this makes sense as you can still select to trigger on rising or falling edges of your signal while using mains frequency as the trigger reference.
Hello! Look at the red square. This value it's not redrawing. Reboot doesn't help. Now everything is ok, after playing with all trigger settings.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on August 27, 2019, 07:25:39 am
What do you see as wrong ?
I just checked SDS1104X-E and it seems all is OK. I can see how the trigger display box info could be confusing listing Edge and AC Line but this makes sense as you can still select to trigger on rising or falling edges of your signal while using mains frequency as the trigger reference.
Hello! Look at the red square. This value it's not redrawing. Reboot doesn't help. Now everything is ok, after playing with all trigger settings.
OK, good. Thank you. 4ch X-E's don't do that so it's a bug. They can check it at the factory and fix it.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on August 30, 2019, 01:15:48 pm
A totally new English Siglent factory website has gone online:
http://int.siglent.com/ (http://int.siglent.com/)

And a revamped Chinese one too:
http://www.siglent.com/ (http://www.siglent.com/)


Please update your browser bookmarks.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Muttley Snickers on August 30, 2019, 01:45:04 pm
I don't mean to criticise but the text size on that site really is ridiculously small and near impossible to read. The more you zoom in the smaller it gets and it's not like they ran out of space either. I gave up on the Element 14 site for the same reason, ludicrously small fonts are just silly. 
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on August 30, 2019, 01:54:10 pm
I don't mean to criticise but the text size on that site really is ridiculously small and near impossible to read. The more you zoom in the smaller it gets and it's not like they ran out of space either. I gave up on the Element 14 site for the same reason, ludicrously small fonts are just silly.
Thanks Muttley.
I had to set my browser to 150% but I do for most sites. A few pages look like they're still being worked on as 'trial' is still part of the URL.

Anyone else have suggestions ?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tinhead on August 30, 2019, 07:26:20 pm
tested right now the VNA page:

- text size in top of the pages is perfect for me
- text under overview section is now too big (bottom part of http://int.siglent.com/products-overview/sva1000x/#navs (http://int.siglent.com/products-overview/sva1000x/#navs) )
- text under other sections small, but still ok (bottom part of http://int.siglent.com/products-application/sva1000x/ (http://int.siglent.com/products-application/sva1000x/) )

id do always use 100% scaling everywhere, no issues with 1900x1080 Resolution. However few things are not working properly (tested with brave, firefox, chrome, opera, edge and safari - yeah i know), like filter in download section (it jumps back to "select .."). App notes and resources links are broken, faq link typo -> http://int.siglent.com/common/ (http://int.siglent.com/common/)fqa/, troubleshoting/maintenance/op. tips links in chinese language -> http://int.siglent.com/common/ (http://int.siglent.com/common/)guzhang/ (think ggling for tips ...), some pictures are toooooo large (e.g. http://int.siglent.com/about/ (http://int.siglent.com/about/) , the picture on the top of the page have 7000x4000 resolution, this is 15MB jpeg - one can see the photoshop editing :P http://int.siglent.com//u_file/images/19_08_23/cb1489b73f.jpg (http://int.siglent.com//u_file/images/19_08_23/cb1489b73f.jpg), other Images on that page are gif/png … if photoshop, then the ong one, really, who cares about building size and then with fake logos? One can easiy find that this HQ Building is middle of tech Center, and wow, i found two other companies in exact same build with photoshoped logo on it - e.g. https://www.ecerimg.com/nimg/e4/f7/ea4d7231a1801c4c9d22166a4b5d/liantronics_co_ltd.jpg (https://www.ecerimg.com/nimg/e4/f7/ea4d7231a1801c4c9d22166a4b5d/liantronics_co_ltd.jpg) so no, please edit this, this is cheap marketing, a picture of garage is better), warranty check is not working -> http://int.siglent.com/account.php?module=warranty (http://int.siglent.com/account.php?module=warranty) (but it works on ...trial.ly200...)  , few images have focus but no content (yet, i assume it will be added), filer from product section are broken as well (e.g. sds1000x-e page-> resources -> Firmware does query http://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?ProId=12 (http://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?ProId=12) but results are from every product, not proId=12).

Overall i like the design, but it must be finalized :)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: koba30 on September 11, 2019, 01:41:47 pm
Hi,

I bought a SDS1104X-E Oscilloscope, when I turn on it is frozen on the screen it shows Siglent logo and all the buttons are illuminated, is neccesary press and hold the power button to turn off the oscilloscope, when I turn on again it works fine, turn off and turn on serveral times and works fine, but when turn off and remove the power supply for a 30 min or more the issue appears again. The local distributor told me to change the firmware with the last version available on the Siglent's page, I found the 6.1.33 version, but the Oscilloscope came with 8.1.6.1.26 version from factory. The distributor tells me to install the version 6.1.33, I install following the manual instructions but after that the issue still continues. I try a hardware reset procedure without fix the issue. I appreciate your comments

Thanks in advance
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on September 11, 2019, 08:08:59 pm
Please use the Default button and return the DSO to factory settings.

Monitor usage settings and see if the problem reappears.
If it does please report the settings used at the time so we can report them to the factory for their engineers to investigate.
You can save the settings used in the Save/Recall menu.

Oh, and be sure to power OFF using the power button so the system can shut down properly.
It is NOT advisable to use the wall switch to power OFF.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: koba30 on September 11, 2019, 09:24:08 pm
Quote
Please use the Default button and return the DSO to factory settings.
Its Done.

Quote
Monitor usage settings and see if the problem reappears.
If it does please report the settings used at the time so we can report them to the factory for their engineers to investigate.
You can save the settings used in the Save/Recall menu.
Ok, I will monitor and inform to you any issue.

Quote
Oh, and be sure to power OFF using the power button so the system can shut down properly.
It is NOT advisable to use the wall switch to power OFF.
I always use the power button, the DSO is powered by a PSU to avoid a unexpected turn off.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: netlend on September 16, 2019, 06:42:12 pm
Hello. I have a Siglent SDS 1102SFL oscilloscope. The firmware was 1.01.01.25P13. After updating the firmware
5.08.02.38 the Siglent logo disappeared when turned on. Help restore the oscilloscope.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ebastler on September 16, 2019, 07:40:39 pm
Hello. I have a Siglent SDS 1102SFL oscilloscope.

Do you mean "CFL", maybe? That one here?

(http://www.saelig.com/miva/graphics/00000001/SDS1302CFL_350x167.jpg)

(That's one strange front panel layout. I guess users have to be grateful that Siglent did not print a big "I was too cheap to buy the four-channel version!" into the white space...)  ;)

Quote
After updating the firmware 5.08.02.38 the Siglent logo disappeared when turned on. Help restore the oscilloscope.

Hmm... 5.01.02.38 maybe?
Did you grab the right version? There are two separate files, one for 2-channel scopes, one for 4-channel.
https://www.siglent.eu/Downloads (https://www.siglent.eu/Downloads)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: netlend on September 17, 2019, 04:00:38 am
I chose the correct version for the two channels.
The oscilloscope only runs a white screen saver instead of a logo.
Incorrectly written CFL.(SDS 1102CFL)
Your link does not download.I downloaded from another site - Siglent.
And for some reason, the weight of the firmware is 1.11Mb
-----How to get back?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on September 17, 2019, 06:28:41 am
I chose the correct version for the two channels.
The oscilloscope only runs a white screen saver instead of a logo.
Incorrectly written CFL.(SDS 1102CFL)
Your link does not download.I downloaded from another site - Siglent.
And for some reason, the weight of the firmware is 1.11Mb
-----How to get back?
Yes the link offered is NOT the official Siglent Hamburg site.
This is the link for version 5.08.02.38:
https://www.siglenteu.com/download/4239/ (https://www.siglenteu.com/download/4239/)

Yes it's just 1.11 MB.
It seems you need boot recovery files so I will ask the factory what they have to offer.

Can you post a picture of the display when the boot stalls ?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: netlend on September 17, 2019, 06:44:17 am
I apologize for bad English. The most interesting thing is that the oscilloscope starts up.
When you turn on the oscilloscope, immediately a white screen, then everything is fine, the oscilloscope works as usual (not quite sure).

 ebastler-
:(That's one strange front panel layout. I guess users have to be grateful that Siglent did not print a big "I was too cheap to buy the four-channel version!" into the white space...)

I bought because the price was cheaper than DSO 5102P :With some shortcomings, there are good pluses.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on September 17, 2019, 07:09:03 am
I apologize for bad English. The most interesting thing is that the oscilloscope starts up.
When you turn on the oscilloscope, immediately a white screen, then everything is fine, the oscilloscope works as usual (not quite sure).
OK so you have lost the Siglent splash screen but the scope works OK.
Can you install the firmware again to see if it fixes the problem ?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: netlend on September 17, 2019, 07:12:28 am
The same? I’ll do it, but already in the evening.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tv84 on September 17, 2019, 10:17:41 am
It's been a long time since i parsed these, but...

In some of these FW releases, I think the boot screen is contained in the .CFG upgrade files. Not the .ADS.
That's why Siglent sometimes released both files.

The whole contents of a .CFG file is essentially the boot screen bitmap.

So, to restore the screen you could try reflashing the appropriate .CFG file.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1347761/#msg1347761 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1347761/#msg1347761)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: netlend on September 17, 2019, 11:14:10 am
That is, I just write the .CFG file to a flash.
And then I update with the indication of this file?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tv84 on September 17, 2019, 03:36:37 pm
Be careful and choose the correct .CFG.

Then it's best to follow Siglent's procedure to update with the .CFG (but it should be something like updating with a .ADS)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on September 17, 2019, 03:48:00 pm
Be careful and choose the correct .CFG.

Then it's best to follow Siglent's procedure to update with the .CFG (but it should be something like updating with a .ADS)
I think you are right about the .cfg as normally with the older units and an upgrade from 1.01.01.25P13 to a much later 5.08.02.38 there would be a .cfg in the FW package and instruction to install it first.

I've never handled CFL models so I don't have the old firmwares to check for their .cfg's.

However now we know more netlend's problem I can try the factory for the corrective FW.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: netlend on September 17, 2019, 06:22:55 pm
Thank you very much friends. As it turned out, with the firmware, the configuration was erased (damaged?).
Here on the forum (thanks to tv84) I found a suitable one .CFG. I just updated it through the menu, and everything became as it should. :clap: :clap: :clap:
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tv84 on September 17, 2019, 06:47:00 pm
Here on the forum (thanks to tv84) I found a suitable one .CFG. I just updated it through the menu, and everything became as it should. :clap: :clap: :clap:

Well done. It seems my old investigation helped someone!  :box:

BTW, now you have a SDS 1102CFL. What about converting it into a SDS 1302CFL?  ;)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: netlend on September 18, 2019, 05:05:06 am
Very interesting how to do this?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on September 18, 2019, 05:18:33 am
Very interesting how to do this?
Now your scope is fixed please take any discussion of hacking to another thread, this one:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: McBryce on September 18, 2019, 06:38:57 am
Hi tautech,
      any idea when Siglent are going to release the latest Firmware for the SHS806? New units come with 5.09.01.07 (which also doesn't fix all known bugs), but the Siglent site only offers 5.09.01.05.


McBryce.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on September 19, 2019, 06:32:31 am
Hi tautech,
      any idea when Siglent are going to release the latest Firmware for the SHS806? New units come with 5.09.01.07 (which also doesn't fix all known bugs), but the Siglent site only offers 5.09.01.05.


McBryce.
Watch the websites as it's to be released soon due to your request.  :)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: McBryce on September 19, 2019, 06:58:30 am
Top! :)

Now if they could manage to fix up the graphic settings that mess up after restarting the device, I'd be even more impressed  ::)


McBryce.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: pantelei4 on September 19, 2019, 08:02:07 am
Watch the websites as it's to be released soon due to your request.  :)
I wonder what will be fixed this time?
They fixed most of the oscilloscope bugs last time. Trendplot bugs have not been fixed.
I'm afraid to flash the device again, so as not to get a brick.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on September 19, 2019, 08:20:04 am
Watch the websites as it's to be released soon due to your request.  :)
I wonder what will be fixed this time?
Dunno, not a lot I believe but since it's been a while since the last one Siglent thought it was appropriate to fulfill the request.

Quote
I'm afraid to flash the device again, so as not to get a brick.
Fear not, there have been developments for recovery of SHS800 models, well 60, 100 and 150 MHz ones.
Another member had bricked his AKIP (rebrand) and some member kindly supplied him with a memdump of which he flashed into his bricked unit and recovered it.  :)
See here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/try-to-find-siglent-shs806-oscilloscope-firmware-(dump)/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/try-to-find-siglent-shs806-oscilloscope-firmware-(dump)/)

I too have this memdump file should someone need it and I need to do a little write up on the chip to flash as I have a busted SHS board here to inspect.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tinhead on September 24, 2019, 01:29:26 pm
tested right now the VNA page:

- text size in top of the pages is perfect for me
- text under overview section is now too big (bottom part of http://int.siglent.com/products-overview/sva1000x/#navs (http://int.siglent.com/products-overview/sva1000x/#navs) )
- text under other sections small, but still ok (bottom part of http://int.siglent.com/products-application/sva1000x/ (http://int.siglent.com/products-application/sva1000x/) )

id do always use 100% scaling everywhere, no issues with 1900x1080 Resolution. However few things are not working properly (tested with brave, firefox, chrome, opera, edge and safari - yeah i know), like filter in download section (it jumps back to "select .."). App notes and resources links are broken, faq link typo -> http://int.siglent.com/common/ (http://int.siglent.com/common/)fqa/, troubleshoting/maintenance/op. tips links in chinese language -> http://int.siglent.com/common/ (http://int.siglent.com/common/)guzhang/ (think ggling for tips ...), some pictures are toooooo large (e.g. http://int.siglent.com/about/ (http://int.siglent.com/about/) , the picture on the top of the page have 7000x4000 resolution, this is 15MB jpeg - one can see the photoshop editing :P http://int.siglent.com//u_file/images/19_08_23/cb1489b73f.jpg (http://int.siglent.com//u_file/images/19_08_23/cb1489b73f.jpg), other Images on that page are gif/png … if photoshop, then the ong one, really, who cares about building size and then with fake logos? One can easiy find that this HQ Building is middle of tech Center, and wow, i found two other companies in exact same build with photoshoped logo on it - e.g. https://www.ecerimg.com/nimg/e4/f7/ea4d7231a1801c4c9d22166a4b5d/liantronics_co_ltd.jpg (https://www.ecerimg.com/nimg/e4/f7/ea4d7231a1801c4c9d22166a4b5d/liantronics_co_ltd.jpg) so no, please edit this, this is cheap marketing, a picture of garage is better), warranty check is not working -> http://int.siglent.com/account.php?module=warranty (http://int.siglent.com/account.php?module=warranty) (but it works on ...trial.ly200...)  , few images have focus but no content (yet, i assume it will be added), filer from product section are broken as well (e.g. sds1000x-e page-> resources -> Firmware does query http://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?ProId=12 (http://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?ProId=12) but results are from every product, not proId=12).

Overall i like the design, but it must be finalized :)

few other things:

- i can create new account, when i save it, it does forward me to ///. No problem, refresh the website shows me logged in
- i can't add my products, error "Fatal error: Uncaught SoapFault exception: [WSDL] SOAP-ERROR: Parsing WSDL: Couldn't load from 'http://219.133 (http://219.133).........................home/intsiglent/public_html/member/module/product-registration.php on line 32"

Sure, when i create account on siglent.trial.ly200 and try to register my products, then everything works.

One additional side note: i have SAG1021, siglent.trial.ly200 does recognize it wrongly "Product number: SDG2122X Serial number: SAGxxxx". I do have two SDS1204X-E, one with older S/N can be added as SDS1204X-E (Product number: SDS1204X-E Serial number: SDSMMDxxxxx), the newer one however will get recognized as "Product number: SDS1202X-E Serial number: SDSMMExxxxx", so wondering is this is general warranty check problem, or only due to my test on siglent.trial.ly200
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: koba30 on October 02, 2019, 03:50:10 pm
Please use the Default button and return the DSO to factory settings.

Monitor usage settings and see if the problem reappears.
If it does please report the settings used at the time so we can report them to the factory for their engineers to investigate.
You can save the settings used in the Save/Recall menu.

Oh, and be sure to power OFF using the power button so the system can shut down properly.
It is NOT advisable to use the wall switch to power OFF.
Quote
Please use the Default button and return the DSO to factory settings.
Its Done.

Quote
Monitor usage settings and see if the problem reappears.
If it does please report the settings used at the time so we can report them to the factory for their engineers to investigate.
You can save the settings used in the Save/Recall menu.
Ok, I will monitor and inform to you any issue.

Quote
Oh, and be sure to power OFF using the power button so the system can shut down properly.
It is NOT advisable to use the wall switch to power OFF.
I always use the power button, the DSO is powered by a PSU to avoid a unexpected turn off.

Hi,
The problem persists, I even had to turn it off and on twice to get to use the DSO.
Attached the setup files and Excel file with the data of different setups.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_iJEyOy6WU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_iJEyOy6WU)

Regards
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on October 03, 2019, 02:24:52 am
The problem persists, I even had to turn it off and on twice to get to use the DSO.
OK thanks for the further info.

Have you tried reinstalling the latest firmware ?
Do the problem persist when the scope is NOT powered through the UPS ?

Factory support is on holiday until next week.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: koba30 on October 03, 2019, 01:56:39 pm
The problem persists, I even had to turn it off and on twice to get to use the DSO.
Have you tried reinstalling the latest firmware ?
Yes, attached pictures of firmware upgrade.

Do the problem persist when the scope is NOT powered through the UPS ?
Yes with or without UPS, the problem persist (stuck on logo at power on) when the Ac line power supply is removed for a least 12 hours.

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: kvd on October 23, 2019, 10:32:53 pm
Hi all,

I recently updated the firmware on my SDS1202X-E and I noticed this blue badge with a B in it. I never saw it in previous firmware versions. Can anybody tell me what it signifies?

Greetings, Koen.

edit: gated measurement perhaps?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on October 23, 2019, 10:38:04 pm
Is it still there with BW limiting OFF ?
Title: SPD3303X-E / SPD1168X Ethernet Issues
Post by: BillB on October 24, 2019, 12:57:29 pm
I have a number of these supplies (all running the latest FW) LAN connected using static IP addressing.  One the same LAN (same switch) they behave differently than other Siglent connected equipment (SDM3045X, SDG1032X, SDS1104X-E) that are also set-up with static IP addressing. 

Some of the issues include just setting the IP address.  Sometimes it seems as if I need to set DHCP and receive an assigned address before setting a static IP will take.

Another more pressing issue is that I've had an SPD3303X-E become unresponsive on a static IP after a few days.  It would not respond to pings, power cycles did not bring back connectivity, nor did resetting the IP to the same or different static value.  I had to change to DHCP, receive an address, then switch back to static mode and enter the static IP again for it to become responsive again.

On the same switch, an SDS1104X-E serving up it's instrument control page is rock-solid (and very nice, BTW)

Finally, it would be great if the EasyPower application would allow for running multiple instances so that more than one device can be controlled at a time.
Title: Re: SPD3303X-E / SPD1168X Ethernet Issues
Post by: tv84 on October 24, 2019, 02:43:03 pm
power cycles did not bring back connectivity

Very strange!!!

What about a power cycle of the switch, at that moment, instead of power cycling the equipment?
Title: Re: SPD3303X-E / SPD1168X Ethernet Issues
Post by: BillB on October 24, 2019, 05:35:01 pm
power cycles did not bring back connectivity

Very strange!!!

What about a power cycle of the switch, at that moment, instead of power cycling the equipment?

I did physically unplug the cable from the port and back with no change.  I can't power down the switch (other stuff connected and working) but really don't it's the switch as I've seen this behavior with multiple SPDs on switches of different manufacturer.  Besides, every other device on the switch is working properly.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tv84 on October 24, 2019, 05:50:47 pm
Assuming SPD's fault, looks like an example of a bad re-initialization of software structures.  |O
Title: Re: SPD3303X-E / SPD1168X Ethernet Issues
Post by: tautech on October 25, 2019, 08:23:36 am
power cycles did not bring back connectivity

Very strange!!!

What about a power cycle of the switch, at that moment, instead of power cycling the equipment?

I did physically unplug the cable from the port and back with no change.  I can't power down the switch (other stuff connected and working) but really don't it's the switch as I've seen this behavior with multiple SPDs on switches of different manufacturer.  Besides, every other device on the switch is working properly.
Bill, can you state which FW and SW versions of the SPD's and EasyPower you're using ?
For the SPD1kX there was new FW back in April and at the same time a new EasyPower version was released too.
https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/dc-power-supplies/#spd1000x-series
Title: Re: SPD3303X-E / SPD1168X Ethernet Issues
Post by: BillB on October 25, 2019, 01:44:01 pm
Bill, can you state which FW and SW versions of the SPD's and EasyPower you're using ?
For the SPD1kX there was new FW back in April and at the same time a new EasyPower version was released too.
https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/dc-power-supplies/#spd1000x-series

I don't have the SPD1168 in front of me, but I am sure it is running 2.1.1.8 from April.

Easypower V100R001B01D01P18

SPD3033X-E  1.01.01.02.05,V3.0

I can't say for sure, but I don't think I've seen the issue while EasyPower is connected to the supply.  I am running a test now with a 3303 connected with EasyPower to see if it ever loses communication.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on October 25, 2019, 06:32:39 pm
Thanks Bill. Siglent have set up some connectivity tests to see if the can find any similar issues.
The better info we can give them the better chance of them replicating the problem.
I can't say for sure, but I don't think I've seen the issue while EasyPower is connected to the supply. 
This is interesting, are you using another program to communicate with SPD's ?
Or is it the LAN connection is unresponsive/broken when you want/need to use it ?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: BillB on October 25, 2019, 08:01:15 pm
Thanks Bill. Siglent have set up some connectivity tests to see if the can find any similar issues.
The better info we can give them the better chance of them replicating the problem.
I can't say for sure, but I don't think I've seen the issue while EasyPower is connected to the supply. 
This is interesting, are you using another program to communicate with SPD's ?
Or is it the LAN connection is unresponsive/broken when you want/need to use it ?

I've seen the static-IP-not-working-until-DHCP-used issue more often than I have seen the device-stops-responding-on-ethernet issue.

Occasionally I am using SCPI automation with PyVISA based scripting, but most often I am trying to connect with EasyPower.  The times I have seen it unresponsive have been with the device on for a long period of time without anything communicating, then I try to fire up EasyPower.  EasyPower doesn't see it, then I try to ping the supply and it does not respond to pings.
 
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: n3mmr on October 26, 2019, 07:58:50 am
Can one calibrate an SDS1204X-E against external accurate sources in any real sense?

I now have a gpsdo as a ref clock for my sdg2122x and a very accurate voltage source available, and the measurements performed by the DSO are off by "significant" amounts, though still well within spec.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Performa01 on October 26, 2019, 09:31:26 am
Can one calibrate an SDS1204X-E against external accurate sources in any real sense?

I now have a gpsdo as a ref clock for my sdg2122x and a very accurate voltage source available, and the measurements performed by the DSO are off by "significant" amounts, though still well within spec.

All Siglent X-series DSOs provide a Self Calibration feature for the amplitude related parameters. The internal reference for this has the accuracy and stability to sufficiently serve the purpose for the entire lifetime of the instrument.

I do not know if there is any internal clock frequency adjustment (which would require a VCTCXO as internal clock source). Midrange instruments like the SDS5000X provide the option for using an external clock if better timing accuracy is critical.

Here are some general considerations:

•   Calibration accuracy in a DSO is limited by the resolution of the ADC. For the SDS1000X-E, SDS1000X, SDS2000X-E and current SDS2000X, there are 25 LSB/division, consequently accuracy can never be any better than 1/25 division.
•   For very low levels, calibration accuracy is limited by noise as well as the output range and resolution of the internal calibration source (which might not be optimized for the high sensitivities below 10mV/div).
•   In general, it makes little sense to adjust an instrument to any accuracy far better than its specification. Even if a certain (better) accuracy could be achieved, calibration would be void after a short while, because of thermal drift and limited long-term stability. DSO acquisition is rather complex and the attenuators, amplifiers and references are optimized for wide bandwidth and decent pulse response rather than high accuracy and stability, which would be difficult to achieve at the same time (and very expensive).
•   It’s the same for all instruments. For instance, a decent DMM is more accurate than a DSO (but with an extremely limited bandwidth), and it can be adjusted during the calibration process. But even if you adjust it to a much higher accuracy than specified, this is just a momentary situation and the specification still applies, i.e. the error margins have not changed for the specified calibration interval. You’d need a better reference, better dividers, more precise amplifiers and a better ADC (and then some), where “better” stands for more resolution, less noise, less offset and linearity error, less temperature drift, better long-term stability and a better design that takes care of interferences, voltage drops and thermal EMF more effectively. In a DSO, there are other (partially contradicting) priorities.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: n3mmr on October 26, 2019, 10:35:31 am
Even my lowly TTi  handheld frequency counter has a calibration adjustment on its back...

And since my gpsdo delivers accuracy around 10E-10 setting the 8th digit correct seems to be reasonable.

The counter maintains the adjusted accuracy over at least several days and readjustingis not a problem.

So, while your argument is well understood, there are still short term advantages to calibrating.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Performa01 on October 26, 2019, 11:39:02 am
I would be surprised if the cheap 25ppm clock oscillator in the entry level SDS1000X-E series can be calibrated at all. There is absolutely nothing in the service manual that would support such a speculation.

Frequency counters on the other hand always need to have some adjustment, since their one and only purpose is to measure frequencies with reasonable accuracy. Cheap specimen might just have a descrete X-tal with a series trimmer capacitor to pull the frequency, so it's very common that such devices can (and need to be) adjustable, even from the outside.

An entry level DSO should not be compared to a dedicated frequency counter, not even a "lowly" one. This is also why I still have fond memories of my old analog scope, which had a dedicated buffered output for the currently triggered channel, where I could have a real frequency counter permanently connected.

The SDS5000X has a much more accurate 1ppm timebase and I have negotiated long before that future DSOs above the entry level will have that as well.

As already stated, the SDS5000X accepts an external clock on top of that, so any desired accuracy can be achieved.

I'm sorry to say that features like more accurate (and maybe even tuneable) clock oscillators and even more so external clock in/out are features that cost money. The better oscillator alone would be a few dollars more and that really matters for an instrument that is sold for a few hundred dollars to consumers, where the factory only gets a fraction after duties and import fees, taxes, distributor/dealer profit margins and transportation costs have been paid.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: n3mmr on October 31, 2019, 09:30:50 pm
I looked thru the calibration chapter of the sdg2000x service manual and found something a little confusing.
There are references to Python scripts "prepared previously", as in
 "Double click and run the script FeedbackAdjust.py prepared previously."

Are these scripts described somewhere, or downloadable or are you supposed to design them on your own?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: n3mmr on November 01, 2019, 02:22:52 pm
I looked thru the calibration chapter of the sdg2000x service manual and found something a little confusing.
There are references to Python scripts "prepared previously", as in
 "Double click and run the script FeedbackAdjust.py prepared previously."

Are these scripts described somewhere, or downloadable or are you supposed to design them on your own?
I found a link to a package of provided calibration scripts in the service manual for the sdg5000 awg,

http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-gjjrj.aspx?id=4705&tid=16&T=2 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-gjjrj.aspx?id=4705&tid=16&T=2)

but that link leads nowhere, even after correcting the misspelled word "prodcut"
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: JackJones on November 01, 2019, 02:33:26 pm
Waybackmachine has the site archived: https://web.archive.org/web/20171015034532/http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-gjjrj.aspx?id=4705&tid=16&T=2 (https://web.archive.org/web/20171015034532/http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-gjjrj.aspx?id=4705&tid=16&T=2)

Unfortunately the download link aren't. Fortunately I did find the page that has them: http://old.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-gjjrj.aspx?id=4705&tid=16&T=2 (http://old.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-gjjrj.aspx?id=4705&tid=16&T=2)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: n3mmr on November 01, 2019, 04:21:12 pm
Now I'd like to be assured that these python scripts, dated late 2017, are actually still appropriate to use.

Tautec? Performa01?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Performa01 on November 01, 2019, 05:43:01 pm
Sorry, I'm not up to date with this, but Tautech should be able to help.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on November 01, 2019, 06:58:26 pm
Now I'd like to be assured that these python scripts, dated late 2017, are actually still appropriate to use.

Tautec? Performa01?
Many Cal scripts have changed AFAIK so to have a better production processes.

Best you contact Siglent Hamburg to get the latest ones:
info-eu@siglent.com

If they aren't holding them in Hamburg it's already the weekend at the factory so it might be a few days until they get back to you.

BTW, make it clear exactly what you need the Cal script for and what you're trying to adjust.
All communications can give Siglent valuable feedback on their products and hints of what they can do better.
Be clear on what you need/want and give good examples why.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: n3mmr on November 03, 2019, 07:41:21 am
Now I'd like to be assured that these python scripts, dated late 2017, are actually still appropriate to use.

Tautec? Performa01?
Many Cal scripts have changed AFAIK so to have a better production processes.

Best you contact Siglent Hamburg to get the latest ones:
info-eu@siglent.com

If they aren't holding them in Hamburg it's already the weekend at the factory so it might be a few days until they get back to you.

BTW, make it clear exactly what you need the Cal script for and what you're trying to adjust.
All communications can give Siglent valuable feedback on their products and hints of what they can do better.
Be clear on what you need/want and give good examples why.

There is no pressing need, I just discovered a confusing aspect of a document that Siglent actually invites you to download.
Are these scripts only available subject to some condition or are they supposed to be a tool for anyone wishing to calibrate their 2000x series awg-s?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on November 03, 2019, 07:57:41 am
Now I'd like to be assured that these python scripts, dated late 2017, are actually still appropriate to use.

Tautec? Performa01?
Many Cal scripts have changed AFAIK so to have a better production processes.

Best you contact Siglent Hamburg to get the latest ones:
info-eu@siglent.com

If they aren't holding them in Hamburg it's already the weekend at the factory so it might be a few days until they get back to you.

BTW, make it clear exactly what you need the Cal script for and what you're trying to adjust.
All communications can give Siglent valuable feedback on their products and hints of what they can do better.
Be clear on what you need/want and give good examples why.

There is no pressing need, I just discovered a confusing aspect of a document that Siglent actually invites you to download.
Please share.
Quote
Are these scripts only available subject to some condition or are they supposed to be a tool for anyone wishing to calibrate their 2000x series awg-s?
Generally for Cal labs with the correct traceable calibrated gear for an semi-automated calibration.
A program on a PC runs the script which in turn controls the instrument and the calibration equipment.

For SDG2000X models there's a guide of all the steps starting on P44 Chapter 3 Calibration
http://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2017/10/SDG2000X_ServiceManual_SM0202X-E01A.pdf (http://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2017/10/SDG2000X_ServiceManual_SM0202X-E01A.pdf)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: n3mmr on November 03, 2019, 11:35:20 am
I'll rephrase:
I have no pressing need for these scripts right now: I'm only asking because finding a calibration chapter in the service manual for the 2000x, a chapter that mention various scripts to use in calibrating the generator, and then finding no information on how to create or get these scripts, THAT was really confusing.
So I have already shared what I found confusing.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: fabrizio_fabrice on November 03, 2019, 02:37:27 pm
Different subject, a question for Siglent or a knowledgable rep:

Does the SDS1202X-E have a 'vertical channel' trigger mode?   I miss that!   If it does not have it now, please add it in a future update.

There are several instances where I was confused by finding different terminology in the User Manual vs. what's displayed by the scope (updated to latest firmware.) That's all I've noticed so far, not completely through it yet.   But it really needs a 'vertical mode' trigger choice!

Fabrice

Experience is what you get just after you need it.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: 2N3055 on November 03, 2019, 03:57:36 pm
Different subject, a question for Siglent or a knowledgable rep:

Does the SDS1202X-E have a 'vertical channel' trigger mode?   I miss that!   If it does not have it now, please add it in a future update.

There are several instances where I was confused by finding different terminology in the User Manual vs. what's displayed by the scope (updated to latest firmware.)
  • No mention of the front panel calibrator output.  Calling it 'Probe Comp' means I didn't find it. (Would also like to know its nominal output amplitude.)
  • User manual refers to the 'Eres' feature as 'High Resolution'.  Makes sense... after you know what it is.
  • The bits added feature is not mentioned at all.  A few words explaining how the setting interacts with other features would be nice.
That's all I've noticed so far, not completely through it yet.   But it really needs a 'vertical mode' trigger choice!

Fabrice

Experience is what you get just after you need it.

Could you please explain what you mean by  'vertical channel' trigger mode in this context ??
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: fabrizio_fabrice on November 04, 2019, 12:40:57 am
Easiest to explain by contrasting behaviors of scopes with or without 'vertical mode' triggering.

With:  The scope has two analog input channels, both initially active.  Set up trigger parameters (slope, coupling, etc.) on whichever.  Enable Vertical channel trigger mode.  If either channel is stopped, or probe removed, triggering automatically switches to the input channel still running, with the same trigger parameters (I think).

Withouth (Siglent).   With 2 operating channels, set up trigger on either one.   Without vertical mode, if the channel selected as trigger input is stopped, disconnected, etc., the operating channel continues looking for trigger on the non-operational channel, and fails.   To re-establish trigger on the still-operating channel, one 'rows the UI' to selected that channel for the trigger input.

On the Sigalent, some operational modes (can't recite which, off the top), apparently default to trigger from channel 1 even though only channel 2 is running.

You could row the UI a different way, to hide one channel rather than turn it off, and the scope would continue to display the other channel as before.  But if the non-operational channel probe is removed to, say, select a different circuit node, the operating channel likely ceases to trigger.

Have you ever used a scope with 'vertical channel' trigger mode?

-Fabrice
Experience is what you get just after you need it.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: StillTrying on November 04, 2019, 01:26:53 am
Have you ever used a scope with 'vertical channel' trigger mode?

Has anyone. :)  25.3bn pages says: No results found for "vertical channel trigger mode".

"'vertical mode' triggering" is better, but sounds just like ALT triggering.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/can-your-dso-do-this/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/can-your-dso-do-this/)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on November 04, 2019, 01:33:21 am
Yes in nearly all cases you must assign the trigger to a particular channel except when the trigger source is AC line or EXT. With the latest SDS1202X-E FW (and other models) the trigger assigned channel can be hidden so to only have the trigger referenced channel of interest shown.

Assigning triggers really couldn't be easier, a press of Trigger Setup and select the Source.

Then of course there is Auto setup for those that have trouble understanding and driving a DSO.
Me, well I want to be master of the instrument and not let it try to be my master and think it knows best.  :--

So I might select and set Ch1 to some clock, hide it and use Ch2 for investigation of any clock related signals.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: fabrizio_fabrice on November 05, 2019, 01:42:09 am
Quote
"'vertical mode' triggering" is better, but sounds just like ALT triggering.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/can-your-dso-do-this/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/can-your-dso-do-this/)
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 01:38:40 am by StillTrying »
Yes, like that and my Tek 2246-1Y.  Suspect many others, for nearly forever.  Not too many here familiar with analog scopes, huh?   :-/O

But are you saying that the Siglent has a ALT trigger mode?
-Fabrice
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: fabrizio_fabrice on November 05, 2019, 02:10:55 am
Quote
Yes in nearly all cases you must assign the trigger to a particular channel except when the trigger source is AC line or EXT. With the latest SDS1202X-E FW (and other models) the trigger assigned channel can be hidden so to only have the trigger referenced channel of interest shown.

Assigning triggers really couldn't be easier, a press of Trigger Setup and select the Source.
Understood, but why should that even be necessary?  To force the user to do it that way?

There are drawbacks to hiding a channel.  Like, losing trigger when you remove the hidden channel's probe, to select another test point, for one.

But, you said "in nearly all cases".  What's the exception?

I just don't get it.   Why would a scope with only two inputs force the user to go button-pushing rather than offer the option to automatically switch the trigger to the other channel when the first is turned off?   After all, you can still do it your way.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: fabrizio_fabrice on November 05, 2019, 02:41:57 pm
Quote
Posted by: StillTrying
« on: Yesterday at 01:26:53 am » Insert Quote
Quote from: fabrizio_fabrice on Yesterday at 12:40:57 am
Have you ever used a scope with 'vertical channel' trigger mode?

Has anyone. :)  25.3bn pages says: No results found for "vertical channel trigger mode".

"'vertical mode' triggering" is better, but sounds just like ALT triggering.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/can-your-dso-do-this/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/can-your-dso-do-this/)
Quote
Yes, like that and my Tek 2246-1Y.  Suspect many others, for nearly forever.  Not too many here familiar with analog scopes, huh?   :-/O

I never gave second thought to the exact behavior of the Tek vertical mode trigger, because "it just worked".  This is the operator manual definition:[attachimg=1 align=left width=400]













Multiple purposes, but it selects only displayed inputs, in the order specified.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: StillTrying on November 05, 2019, 05:02:39 pm
But are you saying that the Siglent has a ALT trigger mode?

The CML+ does, it's a much simpler & basic scope than the Xs and X-Es.

ALT gives each channel it's own trigger level, x-timebase and sample rate, but if there's no trigger on a channel it sticks on that one channel waiting for the ~0.8sec AUTO timeout. Turning off a channel that's used for triggering makes no difference to the triggering, - the turned off channel can still be used as the trigger.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on November 05, 2019, 07:27:32 pm
But are you saying that the Siglent has a ALT trigger mode?

The CML+ does, it's a much simpler & basic scope than the Xs and X-Es.
X-E has ALT too but it's for both rising and falling edges on the nominated channel which makes it useful for eye diagrams.

Quote
ALT gives each channel it's own trigger level, x-timebase and sample rate, but if there's no trigger on a channel it sticks on that one channel waiting for the ~0.8sec AUTO timeout. Turning off the channel that's used for triggering makes no difference to the triggering, - the turned off channel can still be used as the trigger.
In X-E's, if the trigger nominated channel is turned OFF triggering is lost but the channel can be left ON and hidden.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: fabrizio_fabrice on November 07, 2019, 03:19:41 am
Quote
Quote
Then of course there is Auto setup... .
Thanks for the suggestion.  New to this scope, I hadn't tried it.  So I did, but it seemed to default to Ch1, despite it being OFF and Ch2 ON. 
Quote
...for those that have trouble understanding and driving a DSO.
Regardless, my request stands: a trigger source option that will switch from an OFF channel to an ON channel, like the Teks.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: cvanc on November 12, 2019, 07:59:28 pm
I've got a SDM3045X that works fine but does not want to take new firmware.  I'm currently at 2.01.01.07 and it will not take either 5.01.01.03 or 5.01.01.05R3.  Any suggestions?  Thanks.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on November 12, 2019, 08:43:00 pm
I've got a SDM3045X that works fine but does not want to take new firmware.  I'm currently at 2.01.01.07 and it will not take either 5.01.01.03 or 5.01.01.05R3.  Any suggestions?  Thanks.
V2 ?  :-//
My records don't show any V2 FW !

Have you followed the update instructions exactly ? (attached)

Otherwise PM me for another solution.  :)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: cvanc on November 13, 2019, 03:11:07 am
I can navigate to the ADS file and tell it to upgrade, then it rapidly says failed...
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on November 14, 2019, 03:47:59 am
I can navigate to the ADS file and tell it to upgrade, then it rapidly says failed...
Check PM for proposed factory solution.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: cvanc on November 14, 2019, 08:15:20 pm
Tautech fixed me right up - thank you!
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: n3mmr on November 17, 2019, 08:53:13 am
Now I'd like to be assured that these python scripts, dated late 2017, are actually still appropriate to use.

Tautec? Performa01?
Many Cal scripts have changed AFAIK so to have a better production processes.

Best you contact Siglent Hamburg to get the latest ones:
info-eu@siglent.com

If they aren't holding them in Hamburg it's already the weekend at the factory so it might be a few days until they get back to you.

BTW, make it clear exactly what you need the Cal script for and what you're trying to adjust.
All communications can give Siglent valuable feedback on their products and hints of what they can do better.
Be clear on what you need/want and give good examples why.

I wrote to info-eu@siglent.com about two weeks ago.
And they haven't replied yet.
Title: Replacement retractable hook tip for PP510
Post by: ADJohnson on November 29, 2019, 01:02:57 pm
Anyone have any idea where I can source these in the UK?  One that I have appears to have damaged housing and won't grip wire.
Title: Re: Replacement retractable hook tip for PP510
Post by: McBryce on November 29, 2019, 01:44:04 pm
Anyone have any idea where I can source these in the UK?  One that I have appears to have damaged housing and won't grip wire.

And with "these" you mean what exactly?

McBryce.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ADJohnson on November 29, 2019, 02:32:10 pm
They are the probe tips with a little hook that retract into the housing pulling in and gripping whatever is hooked.  You hold the probe, pull down the housing exposing the hook, grab something then let go.  I thought they were standard fare to be honest.  I want replacement for the PP510 probes.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on November 29, 2019, 05:55:43 pm
I've had the occasional new PP510 fail to be replaced under warranty before I ship a scope out so I have some spare grabbers....just a very few.
PM me if you want one.

List on PP510 is just $10 and recent DSO's that use them have had a much better run and now it's rare to get a faulty one.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ADJohnson on November 29, 2019, 06:29:51 pm
I’ve sent a PM, very kind of you to offer.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: t1d on December 01, 2019, 12:50:21 am
I purchased a SDO1104X-E Oscilloscope. I liked it so much that I just added a SDM3065X Multimeter and a SPD3303X-E PSU. I have not played with them enough to have super-insight, but here are two things I noticed right away.

For the SPD3303X-E PSU... There is not a numeric keypad to enter voltage and current changes directly. You have to scroll from digit to digit and increase/decrease them. This is quiet cumbersome. Yes, I know that you can use a laptop, but I should not have to.

For the SDM3065X Multimeter... I used the screen capture to USB function. I notice that the screenshot is just that... Meaning the picture of the control settings is of what is needed to take the picture, not a picture of the settings used to take the reading. This is with using the DMM controls. I imagine it is different, if you are using a laptop interface. But, I should not be forced to use a laptop.

And, I think the only image format is bmp. I'm not sure all forums will accept that format. But, this is not an area of my expertise. This forum does not use bmp. So, I used Paint to change the format.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=882402)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: BillB on December 01, 2019, 01:44:27 pm
For the SPD3303X-E PSU... There is not a numeric keypad to enter voltage and current changes directly. You have to scroll from digit to digit and increase/decrease them.

There are some other supplies that do have a keypad, and they are a nice feature.  But, they do take up panel real estate so in this case its a trade-off for size. 

For the SDM3065X Multimeter... I used the screen capture to USB function. I notice that the screenshot is just that... Meaning the picture of the control settings is of what is needed to take the picture, not a picture of the settings used to take the reading. This is with using the DMM controls.

The same is true for all their DMMs.  In all the measurement functions (DCV,DCA,ACV, etc) there is at least one unused soft-key.  Siglent could map one of those the be a quick screen cap.  Or maybe just a long press of an existing key (like OK) could be used?   
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: McBryce on December 02, 2019, 01:25:36 pm
Hi tautech,
      any idea when Siglent are going to release the latest Firmware for the SHS806? New units come with 5.09.01.07 (which also doesn't fix all known bugs), but the Siglent site only offers 5.09.01.05.


McBryce.
Watch the websites as it's to be released soon due to your request.  :)

Still no sign of newer Firmware files :(

McBryce.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 04, 2019, 07:00:54 pm
Updates from Siglent.

SDL
1. For the EasyDL, we are sorry. It is delayed several times.
SDM
2. The manual adjustment, this function will be finished soon. But this function still require a high accuracy source. So it does not fit for all the users. Change the calibration data is high risk for us and customers.
3. For the larger display dual and temp sensors, these two function are finished.
(SDM3065X FW should be available soon.)

4. For the SHS firmware, we will release it in a week.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: McBryce on December 11, 2019, 11:51:56 am
4. For the SHS firmware, we will release it in a week.


Did they mention which week?

McBryce.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: t1d on December 12, 2019, 12:37:43 pm
I have a brand new SDM3065X. Given some "burn-in" time, I know that test equipment accuracy will stabilize. But, I am having difficulty getting what I would would think is reasonable stabilization, even for new equipment.

Setup
Range = Manual @ 200 ohm
PLC = 100
Auto Zero = On
REL = Off - I considered using this function. I connected all four alligator clips and waited for the unit to settle. It never did. It began at 0.0030 and, over several minutes, it dropped to near zero. Then it started climbing again. So, I did not set REL, because I didn't know what value to capture.
I gave the unit 20-30 minutes of warm-up time, to start.
My lab is in the house. The temperature is as stable as houses get. The heater is running, occasionally, as necessary. It is a central, ducted, whole house type.

As an example, I am presently trying to take a Kelvin/4-Wire resistance reading of a 100 ohm resistor.  I made the connections and wrote down an initial reading, after the resistor had been attached for a few seconds; 98.2925. The value has climbed steadily for about 20 minutes and has just started oscillating around 98.3360 ohms.

Is it typical for this type of measurement to take that long to settle? What should I expect?

I am a hobbyist, but I have been working on circuits for several years now. I have good equipment. Considering my Brymen 869s, it only takes seconds to settle... Yes, I am aware we are talking apples and oranges. I just mention it to give a frame of reference of my experience and, therefore, expectations... Expectations of operations, not of performance, is what I mean.

FYI, I have a newish SDS1104X-E. I also just bought a SDP3303X-E, at the same time as the multimeter. So, I don't have "buyer's-remorse," but I might have "new-baby jitters." That and a lack of knowledge. Any tips would be appreciated.

EDIT: Well, now it is climbing again. Presently oscillating around 98. 3423 ohms... I am going to leave it running and see what happens...

EDIT: Now at 98.3460. This is sitting on my properly grounded, professional (not Chinese cheapee) ESD pad. Could that be part of the problem? It never has been a problem before, but this multimeter is capable of such higher accuracy... I will separate it from the pad and see what happens... If you think it could be an issue, what kind of test could I do?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Performa01 on December 12, 2019, 03:53:11 pm
The 24 hour tolerance for SDM3065X resistor measurement in the 200 Ohms range is +/- (30ppm of the value + 31ppm of the range).
For zero Ohm measurement (leads shorted) this would be +/- 6.2 mOhm => +/- 62 counts.

This specification is only valid after 90 minutes of warming up and the ambient temperature must be stable to +/- 1°C.

This explains, why you cannot get a perfect null with shorted leads. Sounds like you are within 0~15ppm (0~30 counts) offset error after 20-30 minutes warm-up time, which would already be well within the specified tolerance of +/- 62 counts. After 90 minutes I'd expect an even better (and more stable) result.

For the actual resistor measurement, the much more important question is what kind of resistor are you trying to measure?

Since your measurement is some 1.7% off, it doesn't look like a precision resistor - in fact it seems to be not even a general purpose 1% metal film type, which would already have a temperature coefficient of 50~100 ppm/K.

Resistor measurements with ppm stability require low noise, low temperature coefficient precision resistors (e.g. Vishay metal foil types) and an initial warm-up time of 90 minutes plus another few minutes for every new resistor. For instance, the leads of the resistor must be the exact same temperature as the probe clips and fractures of a Kelvin might matter, when you're looking for accurate results.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: jemangedeslolos on December 12, 2019, 04:36:12 pm
Hello,

As Performa01 said, I think you are experimenting temperature coefficient property.
I bought a SDM3065X few days ago and after a warm up time around 30mn, I have a reading between 100.0636 and 100.0639 with a cms 0.1% 25ppm resistor ( https://www.mouser.fr/ProductDetail/Panasonic/ERA-6AEB105V?qs=%2Fha2pyFadugMccic%2FTHB4pMf7hL3Igmf7ZX%252BhnxthzWFLxuTomEvlQ%3D%3D (https://www.mouser.fr/ProductDetail/Panasonic/ERA-6AEB105V?qs=%2Fha2pyFadugMccic%2FTHB4pMf7hL3Igmf7ZX%252BhnxthzWFLxuTomEvlQ%3D%3D) )

I don't have my Brymen 867s next to me but you will have 1 digit missing so It's obvious that you will have more stable readings.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: t1d on December 12, 2019, 10:13:24 pm
@ Performa01 and jemangedeslolos,,, Thank you, both, for your time, effort and expertise to straighten me out!

Normal temperature variations... I feel much better, knowing that. I must actually have new baby jitters... And, a lack of knowledge and experience. But, those will come with time.

As for the resistor value... I was working backwards on the resistor measurement. Meaning that I needed to know the precise value of that particular resistor, as opposed to having to have a resistor that had a particular precise value. For the formula I was working with, I could adjust other variables, if the resistor value was known. I hope that makes sense.

If I understand correctly, I need to turn on all three pieces of my new equipment and just let them run for some number of days, or weeks. Do I need to put them on any particular settings, or put them under a load, etc?

I appreciate your help.
Title: SDG 1032X bricked after firmware upgrade
Post by: orzel on December 12, 2019, 10:25:30 pm
Hello,

My SDG 1032X is one year old, and I tried updating it today. The previous versions was 1.01.01.30R1, and i took the last firmware on siglent site, which is 1.01.01.33R1B5. The release note explicitely says that update from 30R1 to this version was tested. It went as usual (i did plenty of such updates, siglent or non-siglent), and the device rebooted as expected at the end. No warning, error or whatever.

On reboot, the usual Siglent logo appears, and then nothing more will ever happen. It doesn't go any further anymore. Even after a long time (5min?). Even after reboot. I tried removing all cables (usb on the back, cables connected to output). When ethernet is connected, I can't see anything from it, such as dhcp request or ping (I had ethernet working before).

Now I'm completely lost, and I don't know what to do. I never heard of such problem before, googling doesn't find any more information.  Yes, the device was 'hacked', but nobody has ever reported that it was a problem, quite the opposite. The firmware I installed is not that recent (released in august, 4 months ago).

Any hint on what I could do ? try ? I use it almost daily and I can't offer to buy another one.

Title: Re: SDG 1032X bricked after firmware upgrade
Post by: tautech on December 12, 2019, 11:51:41 pm
Hello,

My SDG 1032X is one year old, and I tried updating it today. The previous versions was 1.01.01.30R1, and i took the last firmware on siglent site, which is 1.01.01.33R1B5. The release note explicitely says that update from 30R1 to this version was tested. It went as usual (i did plenty of such updates, siglent or non-siglent), and the device rebooted as expected at the end. No warning, error or whatever.

On reboot, the usual Siglent logo appears, and then nothing more will ever happen. It doesn't go any further anymore. Even after a long time (5min?). Even after reboot. I tried removing all cables (usb on the back, cables connected to output). When ethernet is connected, I can't see anything from it, such as dhcp request or ping (I had ethernet working before).

Now I'm completely lost, and I don't know what to do. I never heard of such problem before, googling doesn't find any more information.  Yes, the device was 'hacked', but nobody has ever reported that it was a problem, quite the opposite. The firmware I installed is not that recent (released in august, 4 months ago).

Any hint on what I could do ? try ? I use it almost daily and I can't offer to buy another one.
Oh dear, never seen a SDG1kX fail to boot !  :o

However I do have the USB recovery package for them as part of my distributor tool kit.
Please PM me your email and I'll send the 18 MB package to you.
Instructions for use are included and it's simple to use.

@orzel
PM received and recovery package sent.
Title: Re: SDG 1032X bricked after firmware upgrade
Post by: orzel on December 13, 2019, 03:46:08 am
Please PM me your email and I'll send the 18 MB package to you.

I manage to 'save' the device with this. But it's not a piece of cake. It really seemed simple: copy some files at the root of a usb disk, and boot the device with the key plugged in.

For the record, here's how it went:
(i almost never use USB keys, so i dont have a bunch of them)

Failure #1: using my usual usb key, the one that i've used to update almost everything here, including siglent devices such as SDS 1104x-e or SDG 1032x: nothing happened (noname, 4Gb, 'linux' partition id, vfat).
Failure #2: using another key (noname, 8G, 'w95 fat32', vfat)
Failure #3: wanting to 'start from scratch', I repartitionned/reformated a key, similar to the one used in 1 (noname, 4G, 'linux', vfat)
Failure #4,5,6: didn't take note :/ But none was 16G (doc says it's not supported). I tried some fat, fat32, ntfs. Didn't try 'exfat'.
Success : another key (noname, 4G, 'w95 fat32', vfat)

Failure means: nothing happened, even after ~5minutes, The doc says it can last ~2minutes. All keys were using 'dos' partitionning, not mpt. This has a field 'partition type', and this is what i display in 'partition id'. No idea if that's relevant or not. I could not figure out what the last one has that others dont... It's a very old key i hadn't touched for years.

On success, it was obvious right at start that something was happenning. The key led blinked (other keys didn't have leds, so can't say), the device screen blinked once or twice, and i had the GUI after only one minute.

Interesting checks right after this:
* the firmware was, as expected, back to a very old version 1.01.01.22R5
* the hack was still valid (30->60MHz), so I really doubt this was the original problem
* the 'startup times' displayed in 'system info' was reset

I finally managed to update to 1.01.01.33R1B5. Once again, the 'hack' survived. I noticed that the hardware version was changed from 02-01-00-23-00 to 02-01-00-24-00, which is .... interesting for a firmware update. I didn't notice if this was this way with 22R5, but probably not.

Anyway, thanks a lot to tautech. NZ is almost as far as possible from here (France), but I wish I had such a reseller here in Europe.
Title: Re: SDG 1032X bricked after firmware upgrade
Post by: tautech on December 13, 2019, 06:40:22 am
Please PM me your email and I'll send the 18 MB package to you.

I manage to 'save' the device with this. But it's not a piece of cake. It really seemed simple: copy some files at the root of a usb disk, and boot the device with the key plugged in.

For the record, here's how it went:
(i almost never use USB keys, so i dont have a bunch of them)

Failure #1: using my usual usb key, the one that i've used to update almost everything here, including siglent devices such as SDS 1104x-e or SDG 1032x: nothing happened (noname, 4Gb, 'linux' partition id, vfat).
Failure #2: using another key (noname, 8G, 'w95 fat32', vfat)
Failure #3: wanting to 'start from scratch', I repartitionned/reformated a key, similar to the one used in 1 (noname, 4G, 'linux', vfat)
Failure #4,5,6: didn't take note :/ But none was 16G (doc says it's not supported). I tried some fat, fat32, ntfs. Didn't try 'exfat'.
Success : another key (noname, 4G, 'w95 fat32', vfat)

Failure means: nothing happened, even after ~5minutes, The doc says it can last ~2minutes. All keys were using 'dos' partitionning, not mpt. This has a field 'partition type', and this is what i display in 'partition id'. No idea if that's relevant or not. I could not figure out what the last one has that others dont... It's a very old key i hadn't touched for years.

On success, it was obvious right at start that something was happenning. The key led blinked (other keys didn't have leds, so can't say), the device screen blinked once or twice, and i had the GUI after only one minute.

Interesting checks right after this:
* the firmware was, as expected, back to a very old version 1.01.01.22R5
* the hack was still valid (30->60MHz), so I really doubt this was the original problem
* the 'startup times' displayed in 'system info' was reset

I finally managed to update to 1.01.01.33R1B5. Once again, the 'hack' survived. I noticed that the hardware version was changed from 02-01-00-23-00 to 02-01-00-24-00, which is .... interesting for a firmware update. I didn't notice if this was this way with 22R5, but probably not.

Anyway, thanks a lot to tautech. NZ is almost as far as possible from here (France), but I wish I had such a reseller here in Europe.
Thanks for writing your adventure up.
Yes the recovery manual is deficient in that it does not specify the USB stick file format required and as a consequence of your trouble I have asked Siglent to make the necessary changes to the recovery manual so users do not need to have the trouble you have.
All my stuff is Windows based so FAT32 by default so I never see such issues and I'm sorry you had to go through this. It wasn't until I checked the recovery manual I saw it was missing some vital info to give a simple and trouble free recovery.

Anyways, you're all fixed up now.  :)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Performa01 on December 13, 2019, 09:26:53 am
Normal temperature variations... I feel much better, knowing that. I must actually have new baby jitters... And, a lack of knowledge and experience. But, those will come with time.
It's not only the temperature coefficient of the resistor. It's also (not only thermal) noise and drift as well as thermal EMF.

Whenever two dissimilar conductors are connected and there is a temperature gradient, a thermal EMF will develop. This can easily reach up to 100µV, equivalent to an error of 0.05% = 500ppm in the most sensitive ranges (200mV, 200 Ohm). This is why thermal equilibrium of the entire test setup is so important - and this of course also applies for low voltage measurements in the 200mV range.

In my experience, even similar looking materials, like nickel plated crocodile clips connected to the wires of a resistor, can develop significant thermal EMF.

As for the resistor value... I was working backwards on the resistor measurement. Meaning that I needed to know the precise value of that particular resistor, as opposed to having to have a resistor that had a particular precise value. For the formula I was working with, I could adjust other variables, if the resistor value was known. I hope that makes sense.
Just keep in mind that the stability of the measurement is indicative for the stability of the component. Your resistor doesn't seem to be particularly stable, nor does it have low noise and a low temperature coefficient. For example, if you can't get the measurement stable to more than 4 digits, then you know that despite adjustment and/or selection of related components the end result cannot be more stable and accurate than about 100 ppm (even if the related components were perfect).

With shorted leads and after waiting long enough until thermal equilibrium is reached (the jacks of the DMM can be quite warm, whereas the test leads might initially be cold), you get an idea of the stability of the DMM itself.
 
If I understand correctly, I need to turn on all three pieces of my new equipment and just let them run for some number of days, or weeks. Do I need to put them on any particular settings, or put them under a load, etc?
What you describe sounds rather like a "burn in". It certainly is only beneficial for precision instruments like your new 2200000 counts DMM. A well aged instrument gets better and better, so I'd suggest to leave your DMM on all the time if you actually want to use it to its full potential. After the first year, it might have drifted significantly (maybe even out of spec), so a calibration including adjustment would be advisable. In subsequent years the drift will get less and less and at some point you'll have a very stable instrument, where calibration routinely just confirms that the instrument is still well within spec.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: t1d on December 13, 2019, 09:13:46 pm
Thanks, Performa01. You have given me lots of good information. Could you point me to some information on practical ways a hobbyist can take better readings, please? I would think that even a small box, to block micro-wind, might help.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: xmo on December 14, 2019, 01:39:41 am
Siglent saved me some money!

Yes, I am an acknowledged Test Equipment Addict.  I don't NEED any more instruments - but I thought - why not a nice waveform generator for Christmas?

I went to the Siglent (USA) web site, picked one out, it said it was in stock, I added to cart and proceeded to checkout.

At the top of the page it offered Paypal as a payment option - that's a good way to not fill in forms.  I clicked on that - oops - error.  Tried again - again an error message.  A site that actually takes Paypal will send you to the Paypal login and after a couple clicks there, Paypal sends you back.  Does not work at Siglent.

So, OK, give up, click on credit.  Fill out all the fields.  Submit.  Error, "You must fill in the highlighted fields"

The highlighted fields were filled in!  Filled them in again.  Submit.  Error, "You must fill in the highlighted fields"

I am only willing to try so hard to buy something I don't really need anyway.

OK, I get it .. Siglent is telling me I have too much equipment. So... thanks Siglent for stopping me in a weak moment.



Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 14, 2019, 09:21:33 am
 :-DD
Try here at one of their US partners and ask for the EEVblog member discount code:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/equipment-discounts-from-saelig/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/equipment-discounts-from-saelig/)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Performa01 on December 14, 2019, 05:17:15 pm
Thanks, Performa01. You have given me lots of good information. Could you point me to some information on practical ways a hobbyist can take better readings, please? I would think that even a small box, to block micro-wind, might help.
Sorry, I don't know any compendium about best measurement practices online, but I highly recommend the Metrology subforum here - there are lots of experienced and knowlegable folks who have certainly discussed many aspects of precision measurements. Some extreme measures are only required for single digit (and sub) ppm territory, but you get an idea...

Other than that, you can search the web for:
All this will give you an idea about the various pitfalls in precision measurements.

Putting the test circuit into a shielded box to prevent both radiated interference signals as well as air convection together with high quality low thermal EMF shielded/guarded test leads is certainly a good start, as well as powering active circuits from a battery inside the box, if applicable.

The best way to learn is by not accepting dubious results, but researching the cause and find a way to circumvent it. This way you gain insight and experience...

Most of the time it will come down to temperature related phenomenons, like thermal EMF and temperature drift (e.g. also the self-heating of shunt resistors), even air humidity (for very low currents and ultra precise measurements), shielding and guarding.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Siglent on December 17, 2019, 02:38:48 pm
Siglent saved me some money!

Yes, I am an acknowledged Test Equipment Addict.  I don't NEED any more instruments - but I thought - why not a nice waveform generator for Christmas?

I went to the Siglent (USA) web site, picked one out, it said it was in stock, I added to cart and proceeded to checkout.

At the top of the page it offered Paypal as a payment option - that's a good way to not fill in forms.  I clicked on that - oops - error.  Tried again - again an error message.  A site that actually takes Paypal will send you to the Paypal login and after a couple clicks there, Paypal sends you back.  Does not work at Siglent.

So, OK, give up, click on credit.  Fill out all the fields.  Submit.  Error, "You must fill in the highlighted fields"

The highlighted fields were filled in!  Filled them in again.  Submit.  Error, "You must fill in the highlighted fields"

I am only willing to try so hard to buy something I don't really need anyway.

OK, I get it .. Siglent is telling me I have too much equipment. So... thanks Siglent for stopping me in a weak moment.





Jason @ SIGLENT North America here. Thank you for posting. You can also write info@siglent.com with suggestions and comments.
I just tested our webstore and did note some issues. We'll be investigating and fixing this ASAP.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: klausES on December 17, 2019, 09:01:04 pm
orzel,

since I wanted to thank you for your information, but cannot send you a message on the forum
(your mailbox is full, the forum-Software will no longer send messages to you) I only have to do this this way.
Thanks, the settings for the 1032X worked.  :-+

Regards Klaus
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 17, 2019, 11:20:12 pm
orzel,

since I wanted to thank you for your information, but cannot send you a message on the forum
(your mailbox is full, the forum-Software will no longer send messages to you) I only have to do this this way.
Thanks, the settings for the 1032X worked.  :-+

Regards Klaus
Yes, PM's are limited until you have 5 posts.
Also, please take any discussion of hacks from this Siglent support thread into the appropriate model thread eg:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 18, 2019, 06:48:13 pm
List of Siglent product threads on EEVblog.
There may be further additions.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-spd1168x-siglent-psu/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-spd1168x-siglent-psu/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sva1015x-1-5ghz-spectrum-vector-network-analyzer-(coming)/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sva1015x-1-5ghz-spectrum-vector-network-analyzer-(coming)/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssa3000x-spectrum-analyzers/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssa3000x-spectrum-analyzers/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdl1000xsdl1000x-e-electronic-load/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdl1000xsdl1000x-e-electronic-load/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/at-last-siglent_s-sds5054x-touchscreen/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/at-last-siglent_s-sds5054x-touchscreen/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg6000-series-awg_s/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg6000-series-awg_s/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssg3000x-series-rf-signal-generators/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssg3000x-series-rf-signal-generators/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-sdg1000-and-sdg800-thread/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-sdg1000-and-sdg800-thread/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-e/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-e/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-coming/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-coming/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-985-siglent-sds1202x-e-oscilloscope-teardown/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-985-siglent-sds1202x-e-oscilloscope-teardown/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssa3000x-r-57-5ghz-real-time-spectrum-analyzer/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssa3000x-r-57-5ghz-real-time-spectrum-analyzer/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-spd3303x-e/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-spd3303x-e/)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: StillTrying on December 18, 2019, 07:03:43 pm
You've missed one. :-DD
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 23, 2019, 08:39:40 am
Siglent wishes all EEVblog members a happy and safe festive season.
Further, a thank you to their many customers for their support and feedback on EEVblog.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=895142)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: t1d on December 27, 2019, 07:57:02 am
I have a newish SDS1104X-E oscilloscope, and being an old noob, I am still trying to make friends with it.

Firstly, when I change/zoom in the divisions per volt setting, the waveform jumps off the screen and the position knob must be turned, until the waveform is found and re-positioned. This can require a lot of turns. Is there any function to set the location of the waveform and relocate it with the push of a button? If not, are there any tips to make this less tedious?

Secondly, even understanding that extreme caution is needed when probing, and trying my best not to touch the wrong thing, I did end up having a spark on one probe. I honestly don't know what happened, or where the contact was made. It did not leave any kind of mark on the probe and all the functions of the scope seem to be intact. The DUT also seems to be fine. So, do I need to worry, further?

Thanks for your help and support.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 27, 2019, 08:14:01 am
I have a newish SDS1104X-E oscilloscope, and being an old noob, I am still trying to make friends with it.

Firstly, when I change/zoom in the divisions per volt setting, the waveform jumps off the screen and the position knob must be turned, until the waveform is found and re-positioned. This can require a lot of turns. Is there any function to set the location of the waveform and relocate it with the push of a button? If not, are there any tips to make this less tedious?
Yep, like most of the encoders V-POSition has a pressable function that places the 0V position back to the middle of the display. Use of AC input coupling can also help when the waveform has a large DC offset value.

There are limitations of how much DC offset is available and these are listed in the datasheet however if you can work with these limits and also know how much offset you require (simple maths based on V/div setting  ;)) you can quickly make this offset from within each channel's menu with the virtual keyboard. To use it go to P2 in the channel menu and select Offset then press the multifunction control and the virtual keyboard pops up. Use the same control to make the setting you want and press the unit type or OK.
Pic attached.

Quote
Secondly, even understanding that extreme caution is needed when probing, and trying my best not to touch the wrong thing, I did end up having a spark on one probe. I honestly don't know what happened, or where the contact was made. It did not leave any kind of mark on the probe and all the functions of the scope seem to be intact. The DUT also seems to be fine. So, do I need to worry, further?
In the probe packet there are little yellow plastic condoms that cover the ground ring on the probe when the top-hat grabber is removed and just leave the very tip of the probe exposed. Get used to using them when probing circuits with any sort of high concentration of parts and/or differing voltage potentials.
It's unlikely you've hurt the probe or scope but for peace of mind do a continuity check between the probe ground lead and the mains earth pin on the scope's mains lead.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: t1d on December 27, 2019, 09:03:15 am
Yep, like most of the encoders V-POSition has a pressable function that places the 0V position back to the middle of the display. Use of AC input coupling can also help when the waveform has a large DC offset value.
Yes, I have used the Zero function on the Position knob to bring the reference back to 0v. But, this does not account for the offset, as you say below.

There are limitations of how much DC offset is available and these are listed in the datasheet however if you can work with these limits and also know how much offset you require (simple maths based on V/div setting  ;)) you can quickly make this offset from within each channel's menu with the virtual keyboard. To use it go to P2 in the channel menu and select Offset then press the multifunction control and the virtual keyboard pops up. Use the same control to make the setting you want and press the unit type or OK. Pic attached.
Ah, there's the trick... Thanks!!!

In the probe packet there are little yellow plastic condoms that cover the ground ring on the probe when the top-hat grabber is removed and just leave the very tip of the probe exposed. Get used to using them when probing circuits with any sort of high concentration of parts and/or differing voltage potentials.
It's unlikely you've hurt the probe or scope but for peace of mind do a continuity check between the probe ground lead and the mains earth pin on the scope's mains lead.
Yep, I forgot about the yellow cover. I will add it to my setup process.

I have not noticed any grounding issues, but I will check the resistance on the probe ground, as you suggest. Good idea.

Thank you for your great help!
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Performa01 on December 27, 2019, 09:06:07 am
Firstly, when I change/zoom in the divisions per volt setting, the waveform jumps off the screen and the position knob must be turned, until the waveform is found and re-positioned. This can require a lot of turns. Is there any function to set the location of the waveform and relocate it with the push of a button? If not, are there any tips to make this less tedious?
I cannot know what your signal and settings look like, but fortunately you have a scope that has all the required mechanisms to deal with most situations.

In the UTILITY menu, there is a submenu "Reference Position". This contains two options for the vertical reference postion:
Depending on your use case (especially the portion of the waveform you're interested in) one or the other of these two strategies should keep the interesting part of the waveform in view.

I feel obligated to remind you that all this is only meant to get rid of DC offsets that are part of the input signal. Quite obviously, zooming into a large AC amplitude might cause problems with the overdrive recovery of the split path input buffer and consequently result in a false waveform display.

For the Siglent DSOs there is a rule of thumb:
You can zoom into a waveform and overdrive the input without major consequences for the signal fidelity as long as the signal amplitude does not exceed 700mVpp at the input socket. This means just 7Vpp for a x10 probe and 70Vpp for a x100 probe.

Secondly, even understanding that extreme caution is needed when probing, and trying my best not to touch the wrong thing, I did end up having a spark on one probe. I honestly don't know what happened, or where the contact was made. It did not leave any kind of mark on the probe and all the functions of the scope seem to be intact. The DUT also seems to be fine. So, do I need to worry, further?
A spark can only come from the ground connection, which is mains earth. So it was the ground ring of the probe that made contact and drew a spark.

You need not worry about the scope and if visual inspection of the probe shows no major burn marks on the ground ring then the probe will be fine as well. I cannot tell the consequences for the DUT though.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on December 27, 2019, 01:56:40 pm
I have a newish SDS1104X-E oscilloscope, and being an old noob, I am still trying to make friends with it.

Firstly, when I change/zoom in the divisions per volt setting, the waveform jumps off the screen and the position knob must be turned, until the waveform is found and re-positioned. This can require a lot of turns. Is there any function to set the location of the waveform and relocate it with the push of a button? If not, are there any tips to make this less tedious?

Secondly, even understanding that extreme caution is needed when probing, and trying my best not to touch the wrong thing, I did end up having a spark on one probe. I honestly don't know what happened, or where the contact was made. It did not leave any kind of mark on the probe and all the functions of the scope seem to be intact. The DUT also seems to be fine. So, do I need to worry, further?

Thanks for your help and support.




Not just your question but...
With offset setting it is some times frustrating when signal stay same but user need select other V/div setting.
This is why there Siglent added (time ago) one feature. User can select Vertical: "Fixed Position" or "Fixed Offset" (also same for horizontal)

Fixed Offset is default.
Fixed Position example:
If user have +3V dc signal and 1V/div.  User see trace 3 div up from center (if offset 0).
If user now adjust offset to 3V so that trace is center (offset 3).
(0 level is now 3 div down from center.)
Now if user change V/div setting...what happen?  If signal is enough accurate 3V trace stay center of screen what ever V/div user now select. (and zero line move more or less out from display) (this feature can also use indirectly for more resolution proportional voltage measurements in some cases due to fact that offset DAC have lot of more resolution than main ADC)

Fixed Position vertical ref is quite useful if need example look PSU ripple and still also can detect also more or less slow drift and jitter. No need turn or set again and again trace offset when change V/div.

And more, in same improvement time Siglent add also same function for horizontal position. So if want example trigger position left side (or where ever) then when change horizontal speed (time/div) trigger position stay fixed in user selected position.
Horizontal: "Fixed Time" is default but user can select also "Fixed Position" mode. 
This is handy in some situations when need trigger position other than center and then need often change time/div (example with serial decoding very useful and in many other situations also) Also if user like left screen trigger position like old analog scopes, just use it.

Utility menu page 4, "Reference"... if I remember right (I have not now here SDS1000X-E for check)

ETA: Perfoma01 was more fast........  ;)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: t1d on December 28, 2019, 12:01:55 pm
@ tautech, Performa01 and rf-loop,

I just wanted to thank you for your gracious help, sharing your knowledge and the effort to do so. I found all of your replies to be quiet educational. I have even printed them out to review (several times ;-)) and added them to my manual. (I did print out the complete manual.)

Thank you, very much!
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: t1d on December 28, 2019, 12:04:29 pm
@ Siglent

IMHO, for noob's like me, the manuals only points out the feature's of a device, but do not really go into how to use a function. This is true of all three manuals of my new Siglent gear.

Are there any training videos? I have found some information on YouTube, and I greatly appreciate the authors' efforts to share, but they are not professional training videos made by the OEM, whom should know the equipment the best.

Thank you for your consideration.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: McBryce on December 28, 2019, 01:04:10 pm
To be fair, a user manual isn't meant to teach you how to use a piece of equipment, just let you know where to find things. The user manual of a car doesn't teach you how to drive.

There are some very good oscilloscope usage guides available from Tektronix that you can download as pdf. They will teach you how to use any oscilloscope. Have a look here: https://www.tek.com/learning/oscilloscope-tutorial (https://www.tek.com/learning/oscilloscope-tutorial)

McBryce.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Performa01 on December 28, 2019, 04:16:59 pm
Documents, Operating Tips, Application Notes and Product Videos can be downloaded here:
https://siglentna.com/resources/ (https://siglentna.com/resources/)

My review (as PDF documents) of the SDS1004X-E series DSO is partially outdated by now and still incomplete, but should provide some additional insights and operating tips. It can be found here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/)

All this material is not meant as beginners tutorials though.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: t1d on December 28, 2019, 07:51:11 pm
Thank you, Performa01. Much appreciated!
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: e0ne199 on January 02, 2020, 01:01:35 pm
any news about new firmware for sds1000x-e series?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on January 02, 2020, 07:13:45 pm
any news about new firmware for sds1000x-e series?
2ch or 4ch models ? They run different FW's.

Which do you have and what FW do you have installed ?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: McBryce on January 20, 2020, 09:54:03 am
Updates from Siglent.

SDL
1. For the EasyDL, we are sorry. It is delayed several times.
SDM
2. The manual adjustment, this function will be finished soon. But this function still require a high accuracy source. So it does not fit for all the users. Change the calibration data is high risk for us and customers.
3. For the larger display dual and temp sensors, these two function are finished.
(SDM3065X FW should be available soon.)

4. For the SHS firmware, we will release it in a week.

Is there any hope that the SHS800 Rev 07 Firmware will ever be released, or am I just wasting my time asking?

McBryce.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: e0ne199 on January 21, 2020, 04:07:07 pm
any news about new firmware for sds1000x-e series?
2ch or 4ch models ? They run different FW's.

Which do you have and what FW do you have installed ?

4ch models, 1204X-E
i am running the latest firmware 6.1.33..anyway do you know when the next firmware will release?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on January 21, 2020, 07:43:20 pm
any news about new firmware for sds1000x-e series?
2ch or 4ch models ? They run different FW's.

Which do you have and what FW do you have installed ?

4ch models, 1204X-E
i am running the latest firmware 6.1.33..anyway do you know when the next firmware will release?
No.
The factory in on their 2 week spring break so no news until Feb.

Do you have an issue that needs fixing ?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: NY2KW on January 27, 2020, 04:06:50 am
Just got my SVA1032X and getting familiar with it.  I have a few questions and don't know if this thread is the right place but here goes:

1) Easyspectrum does not give any control over the VNA (at least not by USB).  Any future plans to provide this remote function?
2) Is there any way to directly save to a PC screen snapshots in VNA mode?  I know I can save png to the SVA1032x internal memory and then copy it to my PC but would be much more functional to control directly to a PC
3) Using Preset and going to VNA the number of data points defaults to 201.  This leads to some very choppy Smith chart graphs.  To get a really smooth Smith plot you need 500-700 data points.  Whats the downside to always using more data points routinely?
4) I have seen screen shots of the SVA1015x serial number and it begins with SVA, I was curious of the significance, if any, of my SVA1032x serial number starting with SSA3?

thanks in advance
Jerry NY2KW
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on January 27, 2020, 05:59:10 am
Just got my SVA1032X and getting familiar with it.  I have a few questions and don't know if this thread is the right place but here goes:

1) Easyspectrum does not give any control over the VNA (at least not by USB).  Any future plans to provide this remote function?
2) Is there any way to directly save to a PC screen snapshots in VNA mode?  I know I can save png to the SVA1032x internal memory and then copy it to my PC but would be much more functional to control directly to a PC
3) Using Preset and going to VNA the number of data points defaults to 201.  This leads to some very choppy Smith chart graphs.  To get a really smooth Smith plot you need 500-700 data points.  Whats the downside to always using more data points routinely?
4) I have seen screen shots of the SVA1015x serial number and it begins with SVA, I was curious of the significance, if any, of my SVA1032x serial number starting with SSA3?

thanks in advance
Jerry NY2KW
Transferred here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sva1015x-1-5ghz-spectrum-vector-network-analyzer-(coming)/msg2889306/#msg2889306 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sva1015x-1-5ghz-spectrum-vector-network-analyzer-(coming)/msg2889306/#msg2889306)
Title: Re: SDG 1032X bricked after firmware upgrade
Post by: gab_p on February 03, 2020, 06:42:51 pm
Please PM me your email and I'll send the 18 MB package to you.

I manage to 'save' the device with this. But it's not a piece of cake. It really seemed simple: copy some files at the root of a usb disk, and boot the device with the key plugged in.

For the record, here's how it went:
(i almost never use USB keys, so i dont have a bunch of them)

Failure #1: using my usual usb key, the one that i've used to update almost everything here, including siglent devices such as SDS 1104x-e or SDG 1032x: nothing happened (noname, 4Gb, 'linux' partition id, vfat).
Failure #2: using another key (noname, 8G, 'w95 fat32', vfat)
Failure #3: wanting to 'start from scratch', I repartitionned/reformated a key, similar to the one used in 1 (noname, 4G, 'linux', vfat)
Failure #4,5,6: didn't take note :/ But none was 16G (doc says it's not supported). I tried some fat, fat32, ntfs. Didn't try 'exfat'.
Success : another key (noname, 4G, 'w95 fat32', vfat)

Failure means: nothing happened, even after ~5minutes, The doc says it can last ~2minutes. All keys were using 'dos' partitionning, not mpt. This has a field 'partition type', and this is what i display in 'partition id'. No idea if that's relevant or not. I could not figure out what the last one has that others dont... It's a very old key i hadn't touched for years.

On success, it was obvious right at start that something was happenning. The key led blinked (other keys didn't have leds, so can't say), the device screen blinked once or twice, and i had the GUI after only one minute.

Interesting checks right after this:
* the firmware was, as expected, back to a very old version 1.01.01.22R5
* the hack was still valid (30->60MHz), so I really doubt this was the original problem
* the 'startup times' displayed in 'system info' was reset

I finally managed to update to 1.01.01.33R1B5. Once again, the 'hack' survived. I noticed that the hardware version was changed from 02-01-00-23-00 to 02-01-00-24-00, which is .... interesting for a firmware update. I didn't notice if this was this way with 22R5, but probably not.

Anyway, thanks a lot to tautech. NZ is almost as far as possible from here (France), but I wish I had such a reseller here in Europe.
Thanks for writing your adventure up.
Yes the recovery manual is deficient in that it does not specify the USB stick file format required and as a consequence of your trouble I have asked Siglent to make the necessary changes to the recovery manual so users do not need to have the trouble you have.
All my stuff is Windows based so FAT32 by default so I never see such issues and I'm sorry you had to go through this. It wasn't until I checked the recovery manual I saw it was missing some vital info to give a simple and trouble free recovery.

Anyways, you're all fixed up now.  :)

I have the same problem with my brand new SDG1032X-->SDG1062 AWG. The upgrade worked, but now it freezes at start up, just showing the Siglent logo. The firmware version is 1.01.01.33R1B5. Any chance that I can get this USB recovery program in order to revive this nice piece of equipment. Thanks in advance for your help.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: maginnovision on February 03, 2020, 07:28:44 pm
Is there any way I can get schematics for spd3303 front panel board. I'd like to add an option to attenuate the brightness and/or turn off the display. Alternatively, could I get the pin number on the LCD connector for the backlight PWM? I'll have time in a few days to find it if not.
Title: Re: SDG 1032X bricked after firmware upgrade
Post by: tautech on February 03, 2020, 07:46:10 pm
I have the same problem with my brand new SDG1032X-->SDG1062 AWG. The upgrade worked, but now it freezes at start up, just showing the Siglent logo. The firmware version is 1.01.01.33R1B5. Any chance that I can get this USB recovery program in order to revive this nice piece of equipment. Thanks in advance for your help.
Welcome to the forum.

Oh damn but we can get you going again.
Send me a personal message with your email.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on February 03, 2020, 08:01:43 pm
Is there any way I can get schematics for spd3303 front panel board. I'd like to add an option to attenuate the brightness and/or turn off the display. Alternatively, could I get the pin number on the LCD connector for the backlight PWM? I'll have time in a few days to find it if not.
SPD3303X/X-E ?
Early firmware had a screensaver but the release notes don't make it clear which version removed it after criticism it was not required in a PSU or for TFT displays. Further, there was also an earlier GUI version that wasn't as informative as the current version so I don't recommend you roll back to earlier firmware to get the screensaver.
http://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2018/02/SPD3303X-E-Firmware-Revise-History.pdf (http://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2018/02/SPD3303X-E-Firmware-Revise-History.pdf)

I'll send a request for more display management options to be considered.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: maginnovision on February 03, 2020, 08:13:39 pm
It'd be nice if there were options like on the Rigol DP832  for brightness and screensaver. For now I have the display disconnected. It's powering voltage references and the logging pi. Wasting energy on the full brightness display seems pointless as it never needs to be touched. I needed my channels from the Rigol back though(it's in a better position) On the Rigol I only use the screensaver so that it turns off the display which I keep brightness down on as well.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on February 03, 2020, 08:28:28 pm
It'd be nice if there were options like on the Rigol DP832  for brightness and screensaver. For now I have the display disconnected. It's powering voltage references and the logging pi. Wasting energy on the full brightness display seems pointless as it never needs to be touched. I needed my channels from the Rigol back though(it's in a better position) On the Rigol I only use the screensaver so that it turns off the display which I keep brightness down on as well.
Ok, so I guess you have a X or X-E model PSU.
Thanks, I'll send through a request that more display management options be added into one of the front panel button menus.

It seems logical it be added into the Timer button as a Display submenu and use the Left/Right buttons for navigation and the encoder for value changes.

Care to think through and offer a display management menu structure ?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: maginnovision on February 03, 2020, 09:21:58 pm
Sure, when I have some time I'll reconnect the display and see what would work best, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Ihor on February 19, 2020, 11:06:19 pm
Hello everyone! 
Sorry for my poor English, I am not a native speaker, but will try to explain the problem clearly.
I have the Siglent SDS1102CML+ oscilloscope. The issue is that the oscilloscope does not boot. It is frozen after turning on and shows only "Siglent" logotype. The buttons light up, but nothing happens. The version of firmware is 6.01.01.21R2 (Release Date 09.25.19 ). Did anybody deal with this issue? Are there any ways to recovery the oscilloscope? It looks like the firmware was corrupted. I see that on main board the sd-card slot exists. Is it possible to use it to flash firmware?
Thanks!
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on February 19, 2020, 11:48:58 pm
Hello everyone! 
Sorry for my poor English, I am not a native speaker, but will try to explain the problem clearly.
I have the Siglent SDS1102CML+ oscilloscope. The issue is that the oscilloscope does not boot. It is frozen after turning on and shows only "Siglent" logotype. The buttons light up, but nothing happens. The version of firmware is 6.01.01.21R2 (Release Date 09.25.19 ). Did anybody deal with this issue? Are there any ways to recovery the oscilloscope? It looks like the firmware was corrupted. I see that on main board the sd-card slot exists. Is it possible to use it to flash firmware?
Thanks!
Welcome to the forum.

Press Math repeatedly and rapidly when booting.
Try multiple times if this fails at first.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Ihor on February 20, 2020, 12:03:20 am
I tried to do it multiple time, but it gives no result :( I read that this can work on Siglent SDS1102CML, but my oscilloscope is Siglent SDS1102CML+
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on February 20, 2020, 12:10:11 am
I tried to do it multiple time, but it gives no result :( I read that this can work on Siglent SDS1102CML, but my oscilloscope is Siglent SDS1102CML+
It is the standard boot freeze recovery method for all CML, + or otherwise.
The Math button presses must be fast and many.
Please try again and report back.

If zero success I do have a CML+ USB recovery package of 12 MB but I will need your email address so please PM me with it.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Ihor on February 20, 2020, 01:02:00 am
tautech, I thank you a lot! The recovery pack helped me to repair oscilloscope. It works now!!) I am really glad that I found this forum!
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: klausES on February 20, 2020, 01:30:32 am
May I ask for which Siglent device types "this type of recovery" is possible ?

SDM3055 and SDG1062X too ?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on February 20, 2020, 01:34:28 am
May I ask for which Siglent device types "this type of recovery" is possible ?

SDM3055 and SDG1062X too ?
Yes.....and others.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: klausES on February 20, 2020, 01:36:42 am
Thank you.
Good to know.  ^-^

I would be interested in how the process of this type of recovery is handled ?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on February 20, 2020, 01:51:24 am
Thank you.
Good to know.  ^-^

I would be interested in how the process of this type of recovery is handled ?
Depends on the product and its firmware status/version but initial attempts are via USB files auto uploaded at boot to replace/repair the OS if the currently installed firmware supports it.
Older non updated devices (with old firmware) may require access to the internal SD card slot to use the same file fix/replace process however a different recovery package (SD or USB) is required for each process.

These recovery files are available only on request and are NOT to be shared or made available to the general public.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: koba30 on March 02, 2020, 11:55:56 am
Hi,
I have this unit that was returned to the factory for startup failures, now no more start issues, but the voltage measurements are wrong, shows 70% of actual voltage. DC and AC are same, I tried with different probes, I made several calibrations but it's still the same.

SDS1104x-e, upgrade to 1204 on factory when repair startup failure.
Software version 8.1.6.26. with the last firmware 6.1.33 the measurement voltage is wrong, same value 70%
FPGA version 2018-07-26
Hadware version 01-04

Thanks in advance for yours comments.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 02, 2020, 12:28:12 pm
Reset to factory defaults and redo measurements please. Pay attention that probe and channel attenuations match.  ;)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: koba30 on March 02, 2020, 02:37:36 pm
Hi,
I reset to default, the probe and channel attenuation are same, the measurements are wrong still.

I will be attentive for any indications
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: StillTrying on March 02, 2020, 05:43:05 pm
"I will be attentive for any indications"

Well here's a couple of random ideas. :)

Edge trigger's not the best for capturing DC levels, use AUTO or AC LINE to keep the DC trace updating.
Eliminate the probes, it's safe to hold a bit of wire between the scope's 3V 1kHz and the center of the BNC, - don't force it in, to see if the 1kHz is 3Vpp.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: koba30 on March 02, 2020, 06:34:25 pm
"I will be attentive for any indications"

Well here's a couple of random ideas. :)

Edge trigger's not the best for capturing DC levels, use AUTO or AC LINE to keep the DC trace updating.
Eliminate the probes, it's safe to hold a bit of wire between the scope's 3V 1kHz and the center of the BNC, - don't force it in, to see if the 1kHz is 3Vpp.

Hi, thanks for you help, with the wire the result is the same, wrong voltage measuerement, I use a fluke 192 to check the Siglent Cal signal, the measuremet is exactly 3Vpp.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: StillTrying on March 02, 2020, 06:56:16 pm
Check the other channels, I can't think of any sensible reason why it's showing amplitudes only 68% of what they should be. :-//
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: McBryce on March 02, 2020, 07:19:37 pm
68 - 70%... Not far off RMS?

McBryce.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 02, 2020, 07:46:32 pm
"I will be attentive for any indications"

Well here's a couple of random ideas. :)

Edge trigger's not the best for capturing DC levels, use AUTO or AC LINE to keep the DC trace updating.
Eliminate the probes, it's safe to hold a bit of wire between the scope's 3V 1kHz and the center of the BNC, - don't force it in, to see if the 1kHz is 3Vpp.

Hi, thanks for you help, with the wire the result is the same, wrong voltage measuerement, I use a fluke 192 to check the Siglent Cal signal, the measuremet is exactly 3Vpp.
Yep, there's something wrong with that screenshot as the probe Cal signal is 3V p-p.
Contact your dealer and send him that screenshot and ask for another scope or this one to be repaired with possibly a new mainboard under warranty.

But first, are all other channels the same and measure low ?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: koba30 on March 02, 2020, 07:58:23 pm
Check the other channels, I can't think of any sensible reason why it's showing amplitudes only 68% of what they should be. :-//

All channels are same. it's a strange fault

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3PoPgBqg4U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3PoPgBqg4U)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 03, 2020, 02:03:48 am
Check the other channels, I can't think of any sensible reason why it's showing amplitudes only 68% of what they should be. :-//

All channels are same. it's a strange fault
Tech support have been alerted to this.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 03, 2020, 04:28:12 am
Check the other channels, I can't think of any sensible reason why it's showing amplitudes only 68% of what they should be. :-//

All channels are same. it's a strange fault

Yes, we think there is a calibration problem.
When Autocal is entered there is a warning that all leads must be removed.
Can you confirm Autocal was run with all probes and leads removed ?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: koba30 on March 03, 2020, 04:32:54 am
Check the other channels, I can't think of any sensible reason why it's showing amplitudes only 68% of what they should be. :-//

All channels are same. it's a strange fault

Yes, we think there is a calibration problem.
When Autocal is entered there is a warning that all leads must be removed.
Can you confirm Autocal was run with all probes and leads removed ?

Yes all probes and leads are removed as indicate the instructions, I run the Autocal several times with the same result, wrong voltage measurments.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 03, 2020, 04:35:23 am
Check the other channels, I can't think of any sensible reason why it's showing amplitudes only 68% of what they should be. :-//

All channels are same. it's a strange fault

Yes, we think there is a calibration problem.
When Autocal is entered there is a warning that all leads must be removed.
Can you confirm Autocal was run with all probes and leads removed ?

Yes all probes and leads are removed as indicate the instructions, I run the Autocal several times with the same result, wrong voltage measurments.
OK, thanks. Expect a PM with contact details and more info that Siglent need.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: 4x1md on March 14, 2020, 01:07:25 pm
How are the versions of Siglent manuals numbered? For example, I have oscilloscope manuals versions UM0101X-E02A,  UM0201X-E01D and UM0101E-E03C. How can I know which one is the latest?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Orion25 on April 11, 2020, 03:53:00 pm
Hello.
The oscilloscope was bought on ebay, model SDS1202x-e, serial number SDS1ECDD2R****, the latest firmware 1.3.26 (picture 1). Channel X when connected to the built-in generator shows such a picture (picture 2). The probe is set to 1 to 10. Although the first time it was turned on, it was like this (picture 3). And here is 1 to 1 (picture 4). For comparison, channel Y 1 to 1 (picture 5).
Lowered sensitivity. Now channel X has a very poor sensitivity, it does not always register the frequency on all ranges, but only at 5 mV - 10 mV. The warranty seal is not damaged, no one opened the case.
I did the compensation of the probe, interchanged it, flashed to the previous firmware. It is flashed quickly, the file is being unpacked and then asks to reboot. The reboot time after this is like a normal boot. Calibrated, reset to default. Nothing helps.
Is this a hardware problem? Or the problem of calibration, firmware? Is the power for each channel separate or common?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ebastler on April 12, 2020, 06:28:27 am
I am a bit confused by your "X" and "Y" channels. I assume you are referring to input channels 1 and 2?

Did you do all tests with the same probe (plugging it into channels 1 and 2 in turn), or with two separate probes? In either case, please try to exchange your probes between the channels, to see whether the problem lies in the probe or in the scope's input.

Picture 2 looks like the signal was AC-coupled via a very small capacitor, which could be a bad connection somewhere. You could try to wiggle the 1:10/1:1 selection switch on your probe, and wiggle the BNC jack at the scope too, to see whether one of these is fishy.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on April 12, 2020, 07:37:58 am
Hello.
The oscilloscope was bought on ebay, model SDS1202x-e, serial number SDS1ECDD2R****, the latest firmware 1.3.26 (picture 1). Channel X when connected to the built-in generator shows such a picture (picture 2). The probe is set to 1 to 10. Although the first time it was turned on, it was like this (picture 3). And here is 1 to 1 (picture 4). For comparison, channel Y 1 to 1 (picture 5).
Lowered sensitivity. Now channel X has a very poor sensitivity, it does not always register the frequency on all ranges, but only at 5 mV - 10 mV. The warranty seal is not damaged, no one opened the case.
I did the compensation of the probe, interchanged it, flashed to the previous firmware. It is flashed quickly, the file is being unpacked and then asks to reboot. The reboot time after this is like a normal boot. Calibrated, reset to default. Nothing helps.
Is this a hardware problem? Or the problem of calibration, firmware? Is the power for each channel separate or common?
Welcome to the forum.

It seems Ch1 has a problem however we cannot see your settings. Please take a screenshot using the blue Print button that saves to a USB pen drive. Please set the scope exactly as this one is and nevermind is ch1 signal is something weird. Check both probes are set to 10x and the channel inputs 10x too.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=968142)

Upload your screenshot into the Attachments when you make the post.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: PushUp on April 12, 2020, 12:09:39 pm
@ "Taking a screenshot with "SDS 1202X-E" using the blue Print button that saves the file to USB pen drive."

Is it a known issue that the newest FW 1.3.26 makes the scope to freeze completely and therefore useless, when trying to save an image more than once?
The display reacts, but no button or anything else, even the lights are frozen. I have tested it with several USB models, however, no problem at all with the older FW, but always (!) with the new one...

I have read in another Siglent thread, with similar problems on other devices than a scope, because of more than one file on it...?!

At the moment I stay on 1.3.23, as 1.3.26 is too annoying as you have to pull the cable again and again, because of the missing on/off switch.

Thanx!
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: NY2KW on April 12, 2020, 02:03:01 pm
Can someone from Siglent let us know when EasySpectrum will be upgraded to support the SVA series?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on April 12, 2020, 08:35:04 pm
@ "Taking a screenshot with "SDS 1202X-E" using the blue Print button that saves the file to USB pen drive."

Is it a known issue that the newest FW 1.3.26 makes the scope to freeze completely and therefore useless, when trying to save an image more than once?
No it is not a known issue.  :-//
Just checked a SDS1202X-E with FW 1.3.26 and saved 4 or 5 successive screenshots without problems.
Quote
The display reacts, but no button or anything else, even the lights are frozen. I have tested it with several USB models, however, no problem at all with the older FW, but always (!) with the new one...
Tried with a couple of 8GB sticks, one of which has many files using several GB.
Quote
I have read in another Siglent thread, with similar problems on other devices than a scope, because of more than one file on it...?!
Could you provide a link to that thread/post please ?
Quote
At the moment I stay on 1.3.23, as 1.3.26 is too annoying as you have to pull the cable again and again, because of the missing on/off switch.
If you have to pull the cable due to a freeze the scope is not shut down correctly and I recommend rebooting it once to ensure it behaves properly after reboot.

Is there any specific setup when the scope freezes ?
If we can replicate your settings when it happens the engineers will fix it.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: PushUp on April 12, 2020, 11:33:52 pm
"Is there any specific setup when the scope freezes ?"

No, nothing special. First of all I thought that the scope is gone, (it is 13 months old +/-) but to be sure, I went back to the former FW and suddenly I could take snapshots without any issues any longer. I tried to povoke a mistake taking several snapshots one behind the other, but all went fine! So, I tried to upgrade again, having the same issue after the next reboot and first picture made. When I was happy to catch a spike and this happened again, while pressing the print button and anything was useless - totally frozen, I was fed up with 1.3.26   :-BROKE and stay now with 1.3.23. Never had any problem again, despite provoking a crash from time to time, but nothing freezes!


"Could you provide a link to that thread/post please ?"

It was in the Benchtop DMM-Thread. I haven't read the complete thread, but while scrolling through the text my eyes caught this and I did a screenshot as it reminds me of my own saving problem with my Siglent scope... But as I don't have a Siglent benchtop 3055 I cannot compare:


https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?all;PHPSESSID=e8ja7i0ragru6auspt39agp3m1 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?all;PHPSESSID=e8ja7i0ragru6auspt39agp3m1)

#448:
I had the same problem and I have contacted Siglent Germany. They could reproduce this error and wrote me that this is a bug. This was on the 2019-01-19. So we have to be patient.

If you have no csv file on the stick, you can save the data. If there are multiple csv files on the drive, the device crashes.

#450
It is not the problem of the USB stick and the formatting. Also the same problem happens if you save the file to the internal memory. If you delete all csv files form the memory, you can save once the data do the USB stick.

Siglent answered me regarding this problem:
Quote
It does be a issue and it was forwarded to our R&D department. The related engineer will fix it and this need some time. Please wait for a while.

#451
Yes, FAT32 and also tried also sticks that only had 2GB.

But since the error also happens when saving in internal memory,
(and no stick is inserted) it shouldn't be a special USB problem.

#453
...If you delete all csv files form the memory, you can save once the data to the USB stick...

Do I understand correctly that a csv must not be present in the internal memory?
Not even if you want to save to usb?

Definitely a bug.

We can only hope that Siglent will fix this as soon as possible.
I was really looking forward to the device (and therefore I will not make it bad, it is not bad), but it does cloud the joy a little.


#471
...and so on...
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on April 13, 2020, 12:01:05 am
"Is there any specific setup when the scope freezes ?"

No, nothing special. First of all I thought that the scope is gone, (it is 13 months old +/-) but to be sure, I went back to the former FW and suddenly I could take snapshots without any issues any longer. I tried to povoke a mistake taking several snapshots one behind the other, but all went fine! So, I tried to upgrade again, having the same issue after the next reboot and first picture made. When I was happy to catch a spike and this happened again, while pressing the print button and anything was useless - totally frozen, I was fed up with 1.3.26   :-BROKE and stay now with 1.3.23. Never had any problem again, despite provoking a crash from time to time, but nothing freezes!
OK another question, have you tried with a clean/empty USB drive ?

I can't help think there is some obscure reason for you getting the freeze, maybe a combo of the freeze then hard shutdown straight after a FW upgrade.

No one else is reporting this same problem so if you can please try some things.
Reinstall 1.3.26 FW then hold the power button for OFF. Reboot and then press the power button for a short time to allow the scope to shut down correctly.
Reboot, this time without USB stick in scope....not that this normally matters but we remove it from potentially mattering.  ;)
Now try the Print button but remember to allow a few seconds between each Print save for the file to upload into the USB stick.
Please report outcome.

Quote
"Could you provide a link to that thread/post please ?"

It was in the Benchtop DMM-Thread.
This is a data issue not a screenshot. The SDM have different file and processor structures.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: PushUp on April 13, 2020, 08:33:32 am
Thank you for your quick reply. I did it the exact way as you suggested and had two freezings within 5 minutes with 1.3.26. It is obvious that this occurs only from time to time and is probably not really reproducible. But as this never happens with FW 1.3.23 - at least to me - with always nearly the same procedures, it makes no fun at all having to cope with such a sporadic appearance...

I am no filming expert, but I tried to catch these two sessions and did a Tautech.zip (353,9 MB) and uploaded the file to my rapidgator account - I will send you the link as a pm, so you may have a look at it, "subject" will be: "Freeze4Tautech". However, it may take a while to download as a free user, but I have nothing else to offer?!

During the first time, I had nothing plugged in. It was directly after the self-calibration process. When I plugged in the USB, I immediately pressed the print button and had the first freezing.

Well, maybe I was too egger doing this...maybe I was too fast, I thought. Therefore I used the same USB and this time waited a few seconds, before pressing print. I could take several screenshots without any issue, but after the next reboot the scope immediately froze when pressing print, you hear the beep and instead of seeing the onscreen text, nothing can be done anymore, anything is dead while the screen still shows the sinus sweep.

By the way I got this scope with Hardware Version: 00-02 (2019.03.22) from Batronix.


Best wishes!
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: egonotto on April 13, 2020, 06:17:49 pm
Hello,

I have a new SDG6022X with firmware 6.01.01.35R5B1 and hardware 03-00-00-76-38.

I want in each channel a 20MSample arbitrary waveform. That does not work. The SDG6022X freeze.

It is possible to do a 19000000 sample large waveform in each channel but with a 20000000 sample large waveform it is only possible to load it in one channel. If I try to load it in the second channel than the SDG6022X freeze.

Is my SDG6022X damaged?

If this is a firmware bug I hope a new firmware will correct this.

Best regards
egonotto
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on April 13, 2020, 09:19:29 pm
Hello,

I have a new SDG6022X with firmware 6.01.01.35R5B1 and hardware 03-00-00-76-38.

I want in each channel a 20MSample arbitrary waveform. That does not work. The SDG6022X freeze.

It is possible to do a 19000000 sample large waveform in each channel but with a 20000000 sample large waveform it is only possible to load it in one channel. If I try to load it in the second channel than the SDG6022X freeze.

Is my SDG6022X damaged?

If this is a firmware bug I hope a new firmware will correct this.

Best regards
egonotto
The max waveform length is 20 M as specified in the datasheet.
In the User manual P97 apparently 82 M of memory is available for file storage.

These are the constraints to work within for Arb usage.
So I suggest you upload and save to the internal memory and then set each channel to use the saved internal files.
The section 2.7 To Store and Recall has further guidance.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on April 13, 2020, 09:23:30 pm
Can someone from Siglent let us know when EasySpectrum will be upgraded to support the SVA series?
Chasing this up.........yes it needs improving or a new EasyVector SW package.  :horse:
When I hear something concrete you'll know.  ;)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Orion25 on April 13, 2020, 09:32:52 pm
I am a bit confused by your "X" and "Y" channels. I assume you are referring to input channels 1 and 2?
Yes, "X" - channel 1, "Y" - channel 2.
Did you do all tests with the same probe (plugging it into channels 1 and 2 in turn), or with two separate probes? In either case, please try to exchange your probes between the channels, to see whether the problem lies in the probe or in the scope's input.
Picture 2 looks like the signal was AC-coupled via a very small capacitor, which could be a bad connection somewhere. You could try to wiggle the 1:10/1:1 selection switch on your probe, and wiggle the BNC jack at the scope too, to see whether one of these is fishy.
Yes, of course, I did all this with two separate probes, nothing changes.
It seems Ch1 has a problem however we cannot see your settings. Please take a screenshot using the blue Print button that saves to a USB pen drive. Please set the scope exactly as this one is and nevermind is ch1 signal is something weird. Check both probes are set to 10x and the channel inputs 10x too.
Upload your screenshot into the Attachments when you make the post.
Uploaded.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on April 13, 2020, 09:39:06 pm
It seems Ch1 has a problem however we cannot see your settings. Please take a screenshot using the blue Print button that saves to a USB pen drive. Please set the scope exactly as this one is and nevermind is ch1 signal is something weird. Check both probes are set to 10x and the channel inputs 10x too.
Upload your screenshot into the Attachments when you make the post.
Uploaded.
OK, thanks. I see you have ten times the sensitivity dialed in for ch 1, without this is the signal too small to trigger on ? Can you please do another with the same settings for both channels but triggering on ch 2 ?
Then we have some good info to send Siglent to get advice on what to do next.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on April 13, 2020, 09:43:29 pm
Thank you for your quick reply. I did it the exact way as you suggested and had two freezings within 5 minutes with 1.3.26. It is obvious that this occurs only from time to time and is probably not really reproducible. But as this never happens with FW 1.3.23 - at least to me - with always nearly the same procedures, it makes no fun at all having to cope with such a sporadic appearance...
Got your videos, thanks.
I see 2 conditions that might be contributing to the freeze but IDK. Siglent can study the videos and decide if it is a SW fault.
I will send them the links for their study.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: egonotto on April 13, 2020, 10:22:55 pm
Hello,

@tautech: thanks. I have in this C:Local several waveform files.

Among them a 19000000 sample large file (36.2MB) and a 20000000 sample large file (38.1MB).

I use this files for my tests.

EasyWave says 2<= #Samples <= 20971520=20*1024*1024

Just I have the 19000000 sample large file in both channels. As I try to recall the 20000000 sample large file in channel 2 it freeze.

Best regards
egonotto
 
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on April 14, 2020, 12:20:20 am
Hello,

@tautech: thanks. I have in this C:Local several waveform files.

Among them a 19000000 sample large file (36.2MB) and a 20000000 sample large file (38.1MB).

I use this files for my tests.

EasyWave says 2<= #Samples <= 20971520=20*1024*1024

Just I have the 19000000 sample large file in both channels. As I try to recall the 20000000 sample large file in channel 2 it freeze.

Best regards
egonotto
Question, what file types are you working with ?
On P100 2.7.2 File Type it mentions using .bin files which in my experience with scopes are much smaller than other file types.

It also appears the datasheet gives room for misinterpretation of the max size for ARB files. 20M points vs MB ?  :-//
Maybe I get time to look at your problem with EasyWaveX and SDG6022X here.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: egonotto on April 14, 2020, 02:53:39 am
Hello,

the 19000000 sample large file and 20000000 sample large file that I mention com from EasyWave 1.1.1.38R1.

For each sample point there is 16Bit in the *.bin-file. That fits the 16Bit DAC. EasyWave sends more information. These information are with the filename associated. But it seams EasyWave cannot read this information back.

It will be nice if you can try it with your SDG6022X.

In Datasheet is:
Parameter            Min.    Max.    Unit
"Waveform length  2       20M     pts"

But mean M here 10^6 (=1000000) or 2^20 (=1048576)
EasyWave says 2^20.

Best regards
egonotto

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Orion25 on April 14, 2020, 01:31:22 pm
I see you have ten times the sensitivity dialed in for ch 1, without this is the signal too small to trigger on ?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Orion25 on April 14, 2020, 01:33:40 pm
Can you please do another with the same settings for both channels but triggering on ch 2 ?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on April 14, 2020, 11:05:45 pm
Can you please do another with the same settings for both channels but triggering on ch 2 ?
Pics...
It seems Ch1 is busted and probably from an over voltage event but it's not impossible there might be a broken connection inside the analog input stage IDK.
The input signal path is not too complex and as you have a good ch2 you can compare measurements to find the faulty ch1 components.
Discussion here might put you on the right path:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sigilent-sds-1052dl-no-ac-coupling/msg3003460/#msg3003460 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sigilent-sds-1052dl-no-ac-coupling/msg3003460/#msg3003460)

Alternatively, you can price a replacement SDS1202X-E mainboard from you local Siglent agent or gimme a yell back and I can get a price ex the factory.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on April 17, 2020, 06:37:53 am
Firmware updates for the SHS800 and 1000 series handheld scopes.

Get the appropriate firmware for your model here:
https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?CateIdss=3
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: McBryce on April 17, 2020, 07:42:46 am
Hi tautech,
    thanks for the update. Unfortunately, the latest Firmware still has the display bug. ei: Choose Scope, then display and set the screen to Black background. When you restart the scope it will sometimes be correct, but 90% of the time you get a wierd unreadable white screen that only goes if you press Scope / Display and set the screen to black background again. See attachment.

McBryce.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on April 17, 2020, 08:15:14 am
Hi tautech,
    thanks for the update. Unfortunately, the latest Firmware still has the display bug. ei: Choose Scope, then display and set the screen to Black background. When you restart the scope it will sometimes be correct, but 90% of the time you get a wierd unreadable white screen that only goes if you press Scope / Display and set the screen to black background again. See attachment.

McBryce.
Model ?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: McBryce on April 17, 2020, 08:37:44 am
Hi tautech,
    thanks for the update. Unfortunately, the latest Firmware still has the display bug. ei: Choose Scope, then display and set the screen to Black background. When you restart the scope it will sometimes be correct, but 90% of the time you get a wierd unreadable white screen that only goes if you press Scope / Display and set the screen to black background again. See attachment.

McBryce.
Model ?

SHS806 - Hardware version 4-33-3.6

McBryce.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on April 17, 2020, 08:40:22 am
Hi tautech,
    thanks for the update. Unfortunately, the latest Firmware still has the display bug. ei: Choose Scope, then display and set the screen to Black background. When you restart the scope it will sometimes be correct, but 90% of the time you get a wierd unreadable white screen that only goes if you press Scope / Display and set the screen to black background again. See attachment.

McBryce.
Model ?

SHS806 - Hardware version 4-33-3.6

McBryce.
Reported.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: pantelei4 on April 17, 2020, 09:27:32 am
The black screen mode has unreadable menu characters on the SHS oscilloscope. Bad color scheme. Unsuitable for use.  :--
What are the specific changes in the new firmware, why should I do this?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: McBryce on April 17, 2020, 05:46:18 pm
I find the black screen mode much easier to read, especially as I use it in low light conditions most of the time.

McBryce.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Qim on April 19, 2020, 09:52:48 am
Hello everyone! 
Sorry for my poor English, I am not a native speaker, but will try to explain the problem clearly.
I have the Siglent SDS1102CML+ oscilloscope. The issue is that the oscilloscope does not boot. It is frozen after turning on and shows only "Siglent" logotype. The buttons light up, but nothing happens. The version of firmware is 6.01.01.21R2 (Release Date 09.25.19 ). Did anybody deal with this issue? Are there any ways to recovery the oscilloscope? It looks like the firmware was corrupted. I see that on main board the sd-card slot exists. Is it possible to use it to flash firmware?
Thanks!
Welcome to the forum.

Press Math repeatedly and rapidly when booting.
Try multiple times if this fails at first.

I have the same problem. The download hung on the logo. I pressed the Math button many times and quickly, but it didn't help(
Osphilograph Siglent SDS 1052DL+
Please help me.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on April 19, 2020, 07:25:01 pm
Hello everyone! 
Sorry for my poor English, I am not a native speaker, but will try to explain the problem clearly.
I have the Siglent SDS1102CML+ oscilloscope. The issue is that the oscilloscope does not boot. It is frozen after turning on and shows only "Siglent" logotype. The buttons light up, but nothing happens. The version of firmware is 6.01.01.21R2 (Release Date 09.25.19 ). Did anybody deal with this issue? Are there any ways to recovery the oscilloscope? It looks like the firmware was corrupted. I see that on main board the sd-card slot exists. Is it possible to use it to flash firmware?
Thanks!
Welcome to the forum.

Press Math repeatedly and rapidly when booting.
Try multiple times if this fails at first.

I have the same problem. The download hung on the logo. I pressed the Math button many times and quickly, but it didn't help(
Osphilograph Siglent SDS 1052DL+
Please help me.
Welcome to the forum.

Message sent to factory tech support asking for help and DL+ recovery files.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on April 20, 2020, 07:19:30 pm
Hello everyone! 
Sorry for my poor English, I am not a native speaker, but will try to explain the problem clearly.
I have the Siglent SDS1102CML+ oscilloscope. The issue is that the oscilloscope does not boot. It is frozen after turning on and shows only "Siglent" logotype. The buttons light up, but nothing happens. The version of firmware is 6.01.01.21R2 (Release Date 09.25.19 ). Did anybody deal with this issue? Are there any ways to recovery the oscilloscope? It looks like the firmware was corrupted. I see that on main board the sd-card slot exists. Is it possible to use it to flash firmware?
Thanks!
Welcome to the forum.

Press Math repeatedly and rapidly when booting.
Try multiple times if this fails at first.

I have the same problem. The download hung on the logo. I pressed the Math button many times and quickly, but it didn't help(
Osphilograph Siglent SDS 1052DL+
Please help me.
Welcome to the forum.

Message sent to factory tech support asking for help and DL+ recovery files.
@ Qim
Tech support need to know your SN# please.
You can PM it to me if you wish.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on April 22, 2020, 01:51:03 am
DL+ recovery files supplied to Qim after receipt of his SN# indicating his DSO can be recovered.  :phew:
They are not available online and only to request.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Qim on April 22, 2020, 07:39:11 am
tautech, Formatted a 2gb flash drive, Fat32, uploaded the files, inserted it into the oscilloscope, pressed the power button (top). And nothing happened.
UPD, another flash drive took and something came up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwFTXweHGeg&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwFTXweHGeg&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on April 22, 2020, 07:46:32 am
tautech, Formatted a 2gb flash drive, Fat32, uploaded the files, inserted it into the oscilloscope, pressed the power button (top). And nothing happened.
OK, try the SD card recovery method.

We can use PM if you like.

Later Qim sent me this:
https://youtu.be/PZI-hxT0HWs
 :clap:

Explanation for video result in Qim's post = the DSO is in Math mode @ 2mV/div
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Jonny on April 25, 2020, 10:05:09 pm
Well, after much research I finally purchased an Siglent SDS1102CML from Tequipment.net.  So far I love the scope. Here are the things that swayed me from the Rigol 1102.  (Larger display, larger memory depth, Physical knobs for both channels, quieter fan)

I also considered the Hantek's and although the higher res display was a large draw, I didn't want to deal with the funny timebase  (2,4,8).

The only 2 annoyances I have found so far with the latest firmware is the fact that the probe compensation setting is reset to 1X when the Default setup key is pressed.  Also the scope always asks to choose the language on boot.

I hope these 2 issues are addressed in the next firmware revision.

Regards,

Steve
the 2 issues you said are not problems. they are designing issues.
1.default setup 1X is to restore the factory settings. Do you want it at 10X?
2.the language section on boot is for the customers to choose the language easier if you want to recover the version that do not have this section, please update the older .CFG file.


I attempted number 2 and this and it doesn't work. I already have the latest FW 5.01.02.32 but the error message is Product Type Does Not Match. How can I update for the latest version as this was posted in 2014 I guess the config file was for the version at the time.

Thanks

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on April 26, 2020, 03:20:28 am
Well, after much research I finally purchased an Siglent SDS1102CML from Tequipment.net.  So far I love the scope. Here are the things that swayed me from the Rigol 1102.  (Larger display, larger memory depth, Physical knobs for both channels, quieter fan)

I also considered the Hantek's and although the higher res display was a large draw, I didn't want to deal with the funny timebase  (2,4,8).

The only 2 annoyances I have found so far with the latest firmware is the fact that the probe compensation setting is reset to 1X when the Default setup key is pressed.  Also the scope always asks to choose the language on boot.

I hope these 2 issues are addressed in the next firmware revision.

Regards,

Steve
the 2 issues you said are not problems. they are designing issues.
1.default setup 1X is to restore the factory settings. Do you want it at 10X?
2.the language section on boot is for the customers to choose the language easier if you want to recover the version that do not have this section, please update the older .CFG file.


I attempted number 2 and this and it doesn't work. I already have the latest FW 5.01.02.32 but the error message is Product Type Does Not Match. How can I update for the latest version as this was posted in 2014 I guess the config file was for the version at the time.

Thanks
Contacted privately with this solution:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg1086598/#msg1086598 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg1086598/#msg1086598)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ApexMark on May 14, 2020, 04:14:59 pm
New forum user, scope user and electronics enthusiast too. Hoping this is the right place to post this if it's of interest.

USB Print crash. Details (see "Update" further below for new info since this was first posted):

SDS1202X-E
FW 1.3.26
FPGA version 2019-06-12

After a couple days of using this brand new and wonderful equipment, and taking half a dozen screenshots onto a flash drive, today I inserted it into the scope, saw the "USB device detected" message, made some horizontal and vertical adjustments while the scope was 'Stopped' to get the screen the way I wanted it, pressed "Print."  No message. Apparent full crash: all buttons unresponsive, everything frozen. Had to hard unplug from wall.

The thumb drive may be of questionable quality. Therefore I'm going to buy an SD card reader adapter and leave it permanently on the scope, then simply remove the SD card to transfer the images to my computer which will have another adapter permanently on it.

As a retired software engineer I'd love to be able to try to repeat the crash to get data for the engineers but I'm too new into electronics and scope usage to feel comfortable risking my first beautiful equipment that I'd like to keep using without incident. I certainly don't want to hard unplug it again, it's so rude.

Kind regards,
Mark

[Update]: It's possible that on this crash, my setting had gotten changed or lost back to "IP" here (unsure what the default is):

Utility > I/O > "USB Device" may not have been selected, the "IP Set" button may have been.

I'm therefore thinking not in terms of a crash but rather code which is just sitting and polling or something and doesn't time out (or I never hit the time out).





Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ApexMark on May 14, 2020, 08:26:11 pm
I just had another hard crash related to saving, which required an unplug.

Save / Recall > Press to Save.  Machine hung for several minutes till I unplugged it. I don't have the details on the save type, as I noticed when I've restarted my changes were lost. I'll try to be more systematic but am becoming shy about anything related to saving.

I also have a new SD card via an adapter plugged in to the USB port.

Mark
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on May 14, 2020, 09:21:18 pm
ApexMark
A few suggestions if I may as this behavior is unusual.
Your USB stick may have some file in the root that the scope doesn't like if you are booting with the stick installed.
Typically we use sticks formatted in FAT32.
Not sure if a SD card adapter works....never tried it.

Hard OFF results in lost settings so when ON again settings from the last proper soft OFF are returned.
I recommend you get some proper soft OFF's so the OS sorts itself out .....maybe with a factory Default so to start again at a known good point.

Please give us any further clues to why/when/how this happens if you can......and welcome aboard.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: PushUp on May 16, 2020, 07:48:18 am
I just had another hard crash related to saving, which required an unplug.

As I have also had too many "USB Print" related crashes, I went back to FW 1.3.23 and they were gone - for ever!!! Please do me a favour and also go back, just observing USB savings vs. crashes: If you also have no problem with 1.3.23 at all, it has something to do with 1.3.26! ...it is better to have a working Scope with 1.3.23, than too many crashes with always being forced pulling the plug...

SDS1202X-E Firmware (2-Channel Model) – 1.3.23 (Release Date 09.27.18)
https://www.siglent.eu/downloads (https://www.siglent.eu/downloads)

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: blurpy on May 16, 2020, 08:46:58 am
I've experienced a lot of hard crashes when taking screenshots as well, on my SDS1204X-E, fw v6.1.33.
I'm always a bit worried when pressing the button. Was wondering if I was the only one having this issue, but seems like I'm not. Maybe it's possible to get Siglent to improve it then?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on May 23, 2020, 08:10:06 pm
Siglent are running a year long review competition with prizes of equipment for written and video reviews.
Details here:
https://siglentna.com/news-article/win-siglent-x-scope-or-x-generator-just-for-giving-us-a-review/

Prizes include:
SDS1104X-E 100 MHz 4ch DSO
SDG2042X 40 MHz 2ch AWG
SDS2104X Plus 100 MHz 4ch DSO

Defpom does an introduction:
https://youtu.be/0V0P4XEjYI4

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: kvd on May 31, 2020, 02:05:34 pm
Hi,

I found another bug in the latest firmware of the SDS1202X-E oscilloscope. It may have been found and mentioned by others as well, but for me it was a new one. 

The bug is about the calculation of dBVrms values in the  FFT screen.  The bug can be shown in one single screenshot. See attached screenshot.

There is a 284mV (rms) signal on channel 2, see measurement. In the FFT it is shown as a -10.8 dBVrms signal. This is not correct. It should be 10*log(0,284)=-5.4. The error results from the squaring of the voltage (from dBm calculations), which is not appropriate in dBVrms calculations. It results in the factor 2 error.

Can anyone confirm this, or did I make a mistake?

If this is indeed a bug, I hope Siglent will solve it in the next firmware release. I am running firmware version 1.3.26, which as far as I know is the latest available version.

Greetings, Koen.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Roger Need on May 31, 2020, 05:50:30 pm

I found another bug in the latest firmware of the SDS1202X-E oscilloscope. It may have been found and mentioned by others as well, but for me it was a new one. 

The bug is about the calculation of dBVrms values in the  FFT screen.  The bug can be shown in one single screenshot. See attached screenshot.

There is a 284mV (rms) signal on channel 2, see measurement. In the FFT it is shown as a -10.8 dBVrms signal. This is not correct. It should be 10*log(0,284)=-5.4. The error results from the squaring of the voltage (from dBm calculations), which is not appropriate in dBVrms calculations. It results in the factor 2 error.

Can anyone confirm this, or did I make a mistake?

Yes you made a simple mistake.  When doing dBVrms calculation the formula is 20*log(measured_rms_voltage/1).  So in your example we get 20*log(0.284) = -10.93 dBVrms which is what Siglent calculated.    For power calculations we use 10*log and for voltage 20*log.

Roger
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: edigi on June 02, 2020, 02:29:57 pm
In the SDS5k models (but probably SDS2k+ as well) in the FFT peak table there are only 3 digits used for frequency (the issue is highlighted in the attached screen capture).
Considering the high number of FFT points and as an outcome the excellent frequency resolution (delta f is indicated as 2.38kHz) this is not sufficient in many cases to distinguish the peaks.
If possible, more digits should be used (2-3 digits more, especially in the higher frequency range).
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: seronday on June 08, 2020, 06:49:51 am
I have a Siglent SDS2104X Plus that has failed to reboot after a firmware upgrade from 1.3.5R3 to the current version 1.3.5R5.

The upgrade appeared to be going correctly until the unit rebooted.
After that it now only shows the Siglent startup screen.
There are no lights flashing and no sounds of relays clicking.

Forum member tautech has been kindly providing assistance with resolving this issue.
Have tried the rapid, repeated pressing of the Math button while booting as suggested by tautech but this boot freeze solution appears not to work with the Plus model or maybe just this problem.

There were no obvious reasons for the upgrade failure, although I did later discover that the USB stick used for the upgrade appeared to have an intermittent connection when used in a laptop.

Prior to this the DSO was operating very well.
So far I had been quite impressed with this model from Siglent.

Currently waiting for a recovery solution from Siglent ...........

Regards.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: seronday on June 08, 2020, 11:51:18 am
This upgrade failure has now been solved.
Siglent, via tautech, have provided recovery files which restored the SDS2104X Plus back to normal.

Tautech's assistance and Siglents speedy response are greatly appreciated.

Regards.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on June 08, 2020, 08:38:16 pm
This upgrade failure has now been solved.
Siglent, via tautech, have provided recovery files which restored the SDS2104X Plus back to normal.

Tautech's assistance and Siglents speedy response are greatly appreciated.

Regards.
Sweet, well done !  :-+
Enjoy your 2kX Plus.  :)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: edigi on June 10, 2020, 05:48:38 am
I've experienced a strange phenomenon with SDS5k model when using FFT output as source for cursors (Firmware: 0.9.1B2, markers are OK).
The span (delta X) indicated via cursors is 10 times the actual span (so with 200MHz real span the cursor from leftmost to rightmost indicate 2GHz as delta X). The frequency location (X value) at the cursor location is also wrong, matches the wrong span + shifted as well (Y/delta Y values are correct).

Is there a way to directly report to Siglent this kind of potential bugs/strange issues?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on June 10, 2020, 07:44:55 am
Is there a way to directly report to Siglent this kind of potential bugs/strange issues?
Done !
Thanks for your clear write up of it.  :-+
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Martin72 on June 13, 2020, 12:34:40 pm
For the sds2000X+ model:

Bugs and wanted/missing Features Thread (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-bugs-missing-features-feature-requests/msg3035508/#msg3035508)

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: sequoia on June 15, 2020, 06:36:33 pm
Product Type: SPD3303X-E
Software version: 1.01.01.02.05
Hardware version: V3.0


SCPI support appears to be broken, several SCPI commands (as documented in the manual) do not work, when sent to device terminated with NL (ASCII 0x0a) character:

*SAV
*RCL
INSTrument
MEASure
OUTPut


This appears to be pretty clear bug  since other commands work normally (and against SCPI/IEEE 488.2-1992 spec).


Here are examples of each failing command:

Code: [Select]
*RCL 1
*SAV 1
INST CH1
MEAS:CURR? CH1
MEAS:VOLT? CH1
MEAS:POWE? CH1
OUTP CH1,ON
OUTP:TRACK 1
OUTP:WAVE CH1,ON

When these commands are sent to instrument (with NL as command terminator as specified in the specs), unit responds with "beep" and sets following error:

Code: [Select]
SYST:ERR?
3  Command keywords were not recognized


Oddly enough unit seems to accept these commands, if no NL character is used to terminate command sent to the unit (as reported in this thread from last year: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spd3303x-e-scpi-interface-issues/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spd3303x-e-scpi-interface-issues/))



Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Danjo on July 15, 2020, 03:21:08 pm
Hello, I have a sds12052dl+ that I am unable to update.  I have downloaded the ads file and loaded it to an usb flash drive root menu, fat32 formatted.  Once connected to the scope, I initiate the update, the file screen opens and I can see my renamed ads file.  But the scope freezes there and I have to cycle power to free it.  But it does boot back up.  Any ideas to what I am doing wrong.  Also, this unit has software version 6.02.01.07.   Thanks in advance for any help .   
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on July 15, 2020, 08:17:55 pm
Hello, I have a sds12052dl+ that I am unable to update.  I have downloaded the ads file and loaded it to an usb flash drive root menu, fat32 formatted.  Once connected to the scope, I initiate the update, the file screen opens and I can see my renamed ads file.  But the scope freezes there and I have to cycle power to free it.  But it does boot back up.  Any ideas to what I am doing wrong.  Also, this unit has software version 6.02.01.07.   Thanks in advance for any help .
Welcome to the forum.

Just checking with you, your model is SDS1052DL+ correct ?
And you got the new firmware from here ?
https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-oscilloscopes/#sds1000dl-series

Did you exactly follow the Firmware Update Instructions in the update package ?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Danjo on July 16, 2020, 07:33:52 am
Yes, that is my model.  And yes that is where I downloaded my firmware and I followed the instructions; I renamed my file to something with less than 9 letters.  I also now have tried a different usb drive.  With this drive it freezes when I press single while I am in the black update firmware screen.  I have to cycle power to unfreeze it.  Thanks for helping med figure this out.  Any c;ue what I am doing wrong?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on July 16, 2020, 08:11:22 am
Yes, that is my model.  And yes that is where I downloaded my firmware and I followed the instructions; I renamed my file to something with less than 9 letters.  I also now have tried a different usb drive.  With this drive it freezes when I press single while I am in the black update firmware screen.  I have to cycle power to unfreeze it.  Thanks for helping med figure this out.  Any clue what I am doing wrong?
It can be the USB drive size and small ones are better.
I use 8 GB max and with an activity LED so you can see any activity when the file uploads into the scope.

If you have a 4 GB drive I suggest you try it.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: MathWizard on July 19, 2020, 01:38:05 am
Hey Tautech what is this glitch or setting problem. I have 1104x-e hacked to 1204, and 1-2 month old firmware.


Just stated the machine, CH2 only, defaulted to 10V/div, something like 500ns or 50ns timebase. AC trigger 0V . So I start zooming out, and it can't keep up at all. Right now I'm on 2s/div, and the trace is just a sliver (timewise), it's still only displaying a few ms wide trace.

So I hit auto. it starts zoomed in around 50ns again, I start zooming back out, and the same thing stats happening.

So I stop at some ms ranges, wait fort it to aqquire, and draw a full trace, then got to 200ms and had a full trace, then jumped to 2s, and it won't draw it, it only draws the 200ms wide trace, centered, and so looks like about 1 block wide. If I zoom back into 200ms, the trace is full width, but I zoom back out to 2s, and it just shrinks the trace, to 1div wide, centred.

Now in the 5minutes it took me to type this, it just managed to display a full 14s wide trace, at 2s/div.


So what's going on, it seemed if I wait long enough at each timebase, for it to draw a full time-width trace, then it was ok, but if I zoomed out faster, it skips stuff, and only displays the trace, from the smaller timebase.

It will say acquiring over and over, way longer than normal, and show nothing new.

The memory depth is at 14Mpts, 500kSa/s, at 2ms, everything should be more or less default, I barely changing anything since hitting "default" last.



I hope that makes sense, I'll snap a pic quicker next time. Any thoughts ? I keep having issues related to timebase or something......

Ran self-test/auto-cal 2 days ago, reports nothing


I hit default, and it's back to normal I guess. But IDK what I could have changed really, I don't touch the settings I don't use/know what they are.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on July 19, 2020, 02:47:47 am
MW, some usage tips....in no particular order or importance.

@ 50ms/div Auto Roll mode is engaged. Use the dedicated Roll mode button for a very different experience if you need slow timebase settings.
Each time you change timebase the Roll mode acquisition starts again.
Keep the Trigger DC coupled....only on rare occasions we need an AC coupled trigger.
Use the blue Pint button for screenshots straight to a USB stick.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Danjo on July 20, 2020, 01:58:29 pm
Sds1052dl+ firmware update issues


I tried updating with a 1gb USB drive to no avail.  I did notice a peculiarity; when attempting to update the scope with the USB formatted in fat, the scope opens the file manager page and I can see the firmware update, but it freezes there and I must cycle power to unlock it.  When attempting with the USB formatted with fat32 the scope freezes at the initial black screen when I press the single button.  I am not sure if this info can help any, but it is new information. I have also tried loading the file onto the USB from another computer, same conclusion.  Any idea what my next course of action should be?  Thank you for your time.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tv84 on July 20, 2020, 04:18:27 pm
Change USB disk. Have you seen my pm?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Fratink on August 03, 2020, 05:19:30 am
Hey @tautech (or anyone else that might know),

I have a SDS1202X-E that I just received a few days ago.  It has the latest firmware.

I'm working on a automotive application, specifically working with ISO9141 for my car.  I captured a sequence of responses from my car to decode and I couldn't get that decoding to work on the scope.  It doesn't appear that the scope is even attempting to decode the serial signal.  My baud is set correctly (10.4k), decode level is set midway on signal, but no go.  I attached a couple pictures to show what I was capturing. 

I also tried setting it to decode uart but this also didn't work, where I would have expected at least some error to be displayed.

I think this post might be related: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1202x-e-impressions-and-a-couple-of-bugs-to-be-aware-of/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1202x-e-impressions-and-a-couple-of-bugs-to-be-aware-of/)
Any idea if this is fixed in the latest firmware?  I had my scope probe set to 10x and only found this post after attempting this in the car.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Decoding 101
Post by: tautech on August 03, 2020, 08:23:41 am
Hi Fratink
In preparing a reply I was under the impression most vehicles used CAN....how wrong was I !  :palm:

Just a look at this page a bit later put me straight and scrolling down to the table Vehicle Messaging Protocols shows a few in common use.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_bus
So when looking up some links for ISO9141 I stumbled on another Wikipedia page with this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics
ISO 9141-2. This protocol has an asynchronous serial data rate of 10.4 kBaud. It is somewhat similar to RS-232; however, the signal levels are different, and communications happen on a single, bidirectional line without additional handshake signals. ISO 9141-2 is primarily used in Chrysler, European, and Asian vehicles.

RS-232 is considered similar to UART so that's what I'd initially try which it seems you have.

For any protocol we must determine what the idle state is in relation to the data packet and for most it is idle high therefore the first edge of all packets is falling so it's best to set our trigger for such.

I like to start by obtaining rock solid triggering on the edge of any old packet and for this to happen you require 2 very simple settings to be correct:
Edge, already mentioned and the prevention of retriggering until after any packet has finished.
This is accomplished by first determining the widest packet and setting trigger Holdoff for a little more.

How to do it.
Set a timebase with a few packets displayed, it doesn't matter that triggering isn't stable and press Run/Stop.
Find the widest packet and in the timebase you are using count the graticules that packet is covering. Multiply this count by the timebase setting and you have your holdoff value.
Now, in the Trigger Setup menu with the correct edge set and holdoff sufficient until after the packet is finished press Run/Stop and you should have rock solid stable triggering. Don't proceed until you have.

Now it's time to make settings to decode, first by selecting the correct protocol, baud rate, assigning channels and setting thresholds then engage decode Display.
Next, depending on the timebase chosen will determine how many packets are displayed and if there is enough room on the decode line to show the decoded result.
We can use the H Pos control to shift the trigger position left so to fit the result on the display or preferably zoom out so many packets are displayed and then engage Zoom for a dual timebase split display where we will have many packets in one window and just a portion of these in the zoomed display.
In the zoomed portion we can use the H Pos to pan through the whole primary timebase inspecting decoded results all the way.

So if you have your head around all that we can look at methods to capture the very start of a stream or packets within it.
For the first packet we could just use Single shot so when the packet stream starts (key switch or whatever) we capture the edge of the first packet and then as many as the scopes memory can hold.
This is where a slow primary timebase is your friend as memory depth is greatest and it's not unusual to capture 100's of packets to then be inspected with the zoomed timebase.
Packets within a stream need use of protocol trigger settings which are somewhat more involved which set specific bits on which to trigger on.

Sounds hard but it's not and procedures like these are the real power of a DSO with good memory depth.

I'll leave you with a selection of screenshots with a step by step walk through of how I've done it before preparing this reply albeit they are in CAN.  :(
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Fratink on August 03, 2020, 08:22:43 pm
Hello tautech,

Yes, ISO 9141-2 is more like RS232 with Tx and Rx tied together.  Kinda like a 12V one-wire protocol.  It's similar enough to RS232 that would actually decode correctly using the uart decoder most likely,

My car is using ISO 9141-2 at 10.4kBaud as mentioned.  ISO9141 is also the underlying physical protocol used in LIN bus, which the 1202X-E is supposed to be able to decode. This is why I was very surprised that it wasn't able to decode LIN. It isn't even able to decode the 5-baud init. 

I'll try using the trigger and see if that works but I'm not super hopeful.

Edit: I may be incorrect, the LIN bus might be more complicated than the ISO9141 / OBD comms and thus could be decoding incorrectly.  I'll have to play around with it.

Cheers,
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on August 03, 2020, 08:30:01 pm
Hello tautech,

Yes, ISO 9141-2 is more like RS232 with Tx and Rx tied together.  Kinda like a 12V one-wire protocol.  It's similar enough to RS232 that would actually decode correctly using the uart decoder most likely,

My car is using ISO 9141-2 at 10.4kBaud as mentioned.  ISO9141 is also the underlying physical protocol used in LIN bus, which the 1202X-E is supposed to be able to decode. This is why I was very surprised that it wasn't able to decode LIN. I may have to ask about returning it as it was the sole reason i purchased it. 

I'll try using the trigger and see if that works but I'm not super hopeful.

Cheers,
It can easy do LIN but you must have the settings correct and first have rock solid stable triggering.
Study my post above for the steps to success.
Good luck.

PS, I can put LIN decode screenshots up later after other jobs...........
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Fratink on August 03, 2020, 09:33:28 pm
Hello Tautech,

Thanks for the help, I think my error was in that the LIN protocol shares the same electrical specification but doesn't communicate exactly the same as ISO 9141.  I think the decoder is expecting a break before decoding and thus isn't working.  What I actually need is more akin to an inverted UART decoder I think.  ISO 9141 / K-line / KWP 2000 are all basically uart over ISO 9141 where LIN appears to be somewhat different.

Very unfortunate on my part.

Thanks for the help, i think that really helped me figure it out.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on August 03, 2020, 10:05:29 pm
Hello Tautech,

Thanks for the help, I think my error was in that the LIN protocol shares the same electrical specification but doesn't communicate exactly the same as ISO 9141.  I think the decoder is expecting a break before decoding and thus isn't working.  What I actually need is more akin to an inverted UART decoder I think.  ISO 9141 / K-line / KWP 2000 are all basically uart over ISO 9141 where LIN appears to be somewhat different.

Very unfortunate on my part.

Thanks for the help, i think that really helped me figure it out.
If you have the settings correct in Stop mode it will still decode.
Electrical spec is so another device communicating with the stream matches the same offset and thresholds although they matter less for scope decoding.
All that matters for the scope is the protocol.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Fratink on August 03, 2020, 10:47:04 pm
Hey tautech,

So I figured it out.  As I surmised, ISO 9141 is really just a weird UART comms protocol.  What I did was to set the scope up to decode uart, set the baud-rate to 10400, trigger threshold around 4V, Data length 8, partity-none, stop bit 1.  All that didn't really work until I set the  the idle level to HIGH.  Then BAM!  it works.

Which means I didn't need to buy a scope with LIN haha.  Oh well, at least I have CAN bus decoding when I get to that.

Thanks for everything and hopefully this helps someone else.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on August 03, 2020, 11:42:16 pm
Hey tautech,

So I figured it out.  As I surmised, ISO 9141 is really just a weird UART comms protocol.  What I did was to set the scope up to decode uart, set the baud-rate to 10400, trigger threshold around 4V, Data length 8, partity-none, stop bit 1.  All that didn't really work until I set the  the idle level to HIGH.  Then BAM!  it works.

Which means I didn't need to buy a scope with LIN haha.  Oh well, at least I have CAN bus decoding when I get to that.

Sweet, good job and well done.   :-+

Quote
Thanks for everything and hopefully this helps someone else.
Yep, that'e the plan but this sorts stuff gets buried in threads unfortunately.

We should really start a Decoding 101 thread.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Fratink on August 04, 2020, 02:05:26 am
Hey tautech,

So I figured it out.  As I surmised, ISO 9141 is really just a weird UART comms protocol.  What I did was to set the scope up to decode uart, set the baud-rate to 10400, trigger threshold around 4V, Data length 8, partity-none, stop bit 1.  All that didn't really work until I set the  the idle level to HIGH.  Then BAM!  it works.

Which means I didn't need to buy a scope with LIN haha.  Oh well, at least I have CAN bus decoding when I get to that.

Sweet, good job and well done.   :-+

Quote
Thanks for everything and hopefully this helps someone else.
Yep, that'e the plan but this sorts stuff gets buried in threads unfortunately.

We should really start a Decoding 101 thread.

That could be helpful.  If you do decide to let me know and I can probably help with ISO 9141, perhaps others.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: CharlotteSwiss on September 19, 2020, 02:12:00 pm
I just had another hard crash related to saving, which required an unplug.

Save / Recall > Press to Save.  Machine hung for several minutes till I unplugged it. I don't have the details on the save type, as I noticed when I've restarted my changes were lost. I'll try to be more systematic but am becoming shy about anything related to saving.

I also have a new SD card via an adapter plugged in to the USB port.

Mark

i see that hais only encrypt two messages in the forum .. did you find any solution then? always if you still read this forum ..
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: CharlotteSwiss on September 19, 2020, 02:15:10 pm
I just had another hard crash related to saving, which required an unplug.

As I have also had too many "USB Print" related crashes, I went back to FW 1.3.23 and they were gone - for ever!!! Please do me a favour and also go back, just observing USB savings vs. crashes: If you also have no problem with 1.3.23 at all, it has something to do with 1.3.26! ...it is better to have a working Scope with 1.3.23, than too many crashes with always being forced pulling the plug...

SDS1202X-E Firmware (2-Channel Model) – 1.3.23 (Release Date 09.27.18)
https://www.siglent.eu/downloads (https://www.siglent.eu/downloads)


so passing to the previous firmware there are no more blocks with print key? would be great!
But this means that Sigòent could make a subsequent firmware that corrects the Print bug, but keeps the updates of version 1.3.26
From the Siglent engineers, a lot of people out here are waiting for your progress
 :popcorn:

Note to Siglent engineers:
if as the user says, with the previous firmware 1,3.23 we do not have the Print button bug, while with the latest firmware we have it (1.3.26), it should be one of the additions to cause it, among these:
1. Channel waveform can be hidden
2. Added a pop message: If there are too many serial frames in one sample, the Scope does not decode all of the serial frames and pop up message of 'Decoding to maximum frame number limitation!'
3. Fixed the bug: Save/Recall setup of trigger and scale issue
4. Fixed the bug: In fine adjust mode, some scale such as 302 mV/DIV is in the wrong position
5. Fixed the bug: LIN decoder doesn't decode frames with zero-length response
6. Fixed the bug: If the Courser Offset is not a multiple of zoom time base, the curser will be replaced when zoomed
7. Fixed the bug: The measurements made with the cursor in Ref. Give wrong values for all the different probes of X1
8. Fixed the bug: Measures fairs with GATE give completely random values in signals of low frequency
9. Fixed the bug: Normal trigger can show more-than-one trigger event on the display at one time
10. Fixed the bug: Erratic triggering, randomly jumping between the first and the second edge of a signal

 :-//
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on September 30, 2020, 04:18:07 pm
Factory on holidays until the 8th Oct.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Martin72 on October 14, 2020, 09:21:59 pm
Probably some decoding issues on sds2000X+ series (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-bugs-missing-features-feature-requests/msg3277956/#msg3277956)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: roberthh on October 15, 2020, 09:52:30 am
SDS2104x-plus, Firmware 1.3.5R10

Topic: Controlling the AWG with SCPI command

Maybe someone could explain the intention of the SCPI commaArbnds with regards to the AWG. I tried a few. Most work as expected, like Basicwave (mostly, some glitches), Output, Storlist (huge list!).
What does not seem to work is ArBWaVe. What did I do:

1. Switch output on with:   c1:outp on   
    result:  Output is on, TE shows AWG menu
2. Switch basic waveform to Arb:  c1:BSWV WVTP,ARB
    result: Menu shows Wave Type Arb.., Arb type stair-up, And that is visible in the trace
3. Try to change the arbtype with: c1:ARWV NAME,PPULSE
    A short glitch, then still stair-up.

Assuming, that the TE might have changed the Waveform for a short moment, I

a) selected manually Trapezia as the waveform
b) set the slope trigger such that is triggers on the trapezia waveform, but  not on the ppulse waveform
c) set the waveform manually back to PPulse (no trigger)
d) send the SCPI command: c1:ARWV index,7
    Result: Triggered with a surprising pattern. A mix of trying to switch to trapezia and then again falling
    back to Ppulse. Screen shot below.
    I could repeat that a few times. After a while, the TE did not respond any more at all to the
    ARWV command.

Another strange effect:
Sending the command "C1:ARWV index,47" or "C1:ARWV index,25" breaks the SCPI interface. No command accepted any more, not even *idn?, until I disconnected and reconnected, or even had to reboot the TE.  Sometimes it causes the TE GUI to completely freeze. No touch, no button press, no nothing, although the waveform update still worked. I had to power cycle the TE to revive it.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: roberthh on October 15, 2020, 12:28:25 pm
SDS2104X+, 1.3.5R10

The SCPI command:

System:remote?

completely freezes the device interface instead of just reporting the remote status. It still responds to "ping" messages on the LAN interface, but acquisition is also stopped.

System:remote off
has no effect on the user interface, as expected.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on October 15, 2020, 07:05:15 pm
SDS2104X+, 1.3.5R10

The SCPI command:

System:remote?

completely freezes the device interface instead of just reporting the remote status. It still responds to "ping" messages on the LAN interface, but acquisition is also stopped.

System:remote off
has no effect on the user interface, as expected.
Is Remote a valid command ?
I could not find it in the programming guide ?
https://int.siglent.com/u_file/document/ProgrammingGuide_PG01-E02C.pdf

Are you working in normal SCPI mode or Tek mode ?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: roberthh on October 16, 2020, 07:06:02 pm

Is Remote a valid command ?
I could not find it in the programming guide ?
https://int.siglent.com/u_file/document/ProgrammingGuide_PG01-E02C.pdf (https://int.siglent.com/u_file/document/ProgrammingGuide_PG01-E02C.pdf)
Commands like system:reboot or system:shutdown work.

Are you working in normal SCPI mode or Tek mode ?
Yes, it is. I am using SDS5000XSDS2000X_Plus_ProgrammingGuide_PG01-E11A.pdf, Page 317
Link: https://www.siglenteu.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2020/07/SDS5000XSDS2000X_Plus_ProgrammingGuide_PG01-E11A.pdf (https://www.siglenteu.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2020/07/SDS5000XSDS2000X_Plus_ProgrammingGuide_PG01-E11A.pdf)

I have the one you mention too, but does not match, and it does not mention the sds2000x-plus.

I am working in Siglent mode. Can you tell me what the TEK mode is?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Martin72 on October 16, 2020, 07:27:56 pm
Hi,

Quote
In Tek Mode, the SCPI commands that the instrument understands are adapted to match those of Tektronix.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-coming/msg3033422/#msg3033422 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-coming/msg3033422/#msg3033422)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: roberthh on November 12, 2020, 01:07:34 pm
A new firmware has been published for the SDS2000x-plus, Version 1.3.7R5. Quite a few changes.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: sng61 on November 29, 2020, 06:11:08 pm
1202x-e
Sometimes the trigger pointer and trigger level line becomes invisible. This bug will be fixed ?
The latest firmware. The previous firmware was the same.
https://youtu.be/FsnhopZEPGk
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on November 29, 2020, 07:53:04 pm
1202x-e
Sometimes the trigger pointer and trigger level line becomes invisible. This bug will be fixed ?
The latest firmware. The previous firmware was the same.
https://youtu.be/FsnhopZEPGk
Normal behaviour in trigger AC coupled mode. Always been this way.

For more understanding on AC and DC trigger coupling watch Daves video EEVblog #685 - What Is Oscilloscope AC Trigger Coupling?

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: sng61 on November 30, 2020, 04:23:12 am
This is normal?? ))
This is not first oscilloscope in my life. There was no such glitch on the previous ones.

Apparently they did not understand me.

in this video: https://youtu.be/FsnhopZEPGk
The first half of the video, where there is no cursor - are there both modes, AC and DC.
And from the middle - the cursor is visible, also in both modes, AC and DC.

And most importantly - such a glitch does not always happen !!! Usually the cursor is visible in all modes, as it should be.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on November 30, 2020, 04:36:45 am
This is normal?? ))
Firstly, this is not first oscilloscope in my life), and there was no such glitch on the previous ones.
And secondly... in this video, I deliberately switched AC-DS modes, and the cursor was not visible in all modes, although the trigger worked normally.
And most importantly - such a glitch does not always happen !!! Usually the cursor is visible in all modes, as it should be.
No, the trigger level indicator is not visible in an AC coupled trigger but only when AC coupled. DC coupled should be visible.
Sometimes the trigger level indicator can be above or below the display and to get it back press the trigger level control to return it to the 50% position of your waveform. The level indicator points up or down when it is off the display.

Try a factory Default is case there is some other setting that is causing this problem.

BTW I need to get a new SDS1202X-E out for my presale checks so will have look at the behaviour you describe.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: sng61 on November 30, 2020, 06:08:07 am
Of course I'm sorry, but do you read what I write?On my device, the cursor is visible ALWAYS, and in any mode - AC or DC.(The second half of the video shows this.) Always, except for periodically occurring similar disappearances of the cursor pointer. And I have not yet noticed after which operations this occurs.
And where are the situations when the cursor is off-screen ?? The trigger level is numerically visible and its magnitude is always clear. But the display of the trigger's line and the cursor on the right will disappear !! I specifically showed how the signal is synchronized in the middle of the front edge, and the cursor and the line are not visible!
I don't know how else to explain such simple things.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on November 30, 2020, 08:52:20 am
Of course I'm sorry, but do you read what I write?On my device, the cursor is visible ALWAYS, and in any mode - AC or DC.(The second half of the video shows this.) Always, except for periodically occurring similar disappearances of the cursor pointer. And I have not yet noticed after which operations this occurs.
And where are the situations when the cursor is off-screen ?? The trigger level is numerically visible and its magnitude is always clear. But the display of the trigger's line and the cursor on the right will disappear !! I specifically showed how the signal is synchronized in the middle of the front edge, and the cursor and the line are not visible!
I don't know how else to explain such simple things.

You need carefully make difference between oscilloscope INPUT coupling AC/DC and TRIGGER coupling..
This input AC DC have "nothing to do" with TRIGGER coupling AC/DC. (yes it have but this is bit other thing)

Also there is Trigger source. When it is AC it do nothing to do with "coupling" mode.

In your video your oscilloscope works just as designed and with this particular thing there is not bug.

It need also understand that this scope trigger engine is totally after ADC. Fully in digital side, listening ADC output stream. So oscilloscope analog input signal AC/DC coupling do not matter anything there after ADC and data what it see. Now this TRIGGER  coupling DC/AC is there in digital side. Data there is perfectly just 8 bit bytes from ADC and it do not know (reading this data) if input channel is AC or DC coupled. It only see ADC data range 0 - 255.

What is Trigger coupling then. If now want think this digitally you can think it analogically. Put DAC after ADC. Take this DAC signal out for trig. Now there is analog signal what can couple via DC route or block this DC out using capacitor and what make some time constant in circuit.

Now when TRIGGER coupling is AC there is not trigger level marker visible but when you adjust level there is still voltage level numbers what change.

This may feel weird but it is not bad solution at all. Of course it can do with visible level marker but in many circumstances it is "dancing wild" with some signals and then you try adjust this it may be nightmare. Just you know your signal you see on screen you can easy think what is numerical level where you want is trigger level.
When yoy have different signals, say example rectangle wave with moving duty and then it ride over some slowly moving "nearly" DC... 

Take exercise and generate this kind different signals and change input AC/DC coupling and change also, together with thinking, trigger coupling  and look how it affect. Watch also signal shape vertican and horizontal moves when signal is changing up and down when this nearly dc is going up and down and you are triggering to this riding example triangle or pwm on it.

There is in trigger setup
Trigger DC coupling, just as previously told it can think trigger engine get just ADC ouput signal as it is
Trigger AC coupling, just DC block and corner freq around 6Hz (as high pass filer)
Trigger LF reject aka high pass filter, this is also kind of AC coupling. High pass filter.. It removes DC and LF freq, corner is around 2MHz
Trigger HF reject, low pass filter, is different, it is low pass filter. It do not remove DC. Its is just low pass filter down to "DC". It have around 1.2MHz corner freq.
These filters are not very steep.

When here is Keysight some scopes principle it can clearly see that if input is AC coupled also trigger is AC coupled. Look this small red line after input when analog signal go to trigger system and other pathway go to ADC. In this side pathway there is also trigger coupling in this kind of scopes. Older times most of DSO and DPO scopes was just like this analog side pathway trigger principle.

(https://siglent.fi/pic/SDS1000X-E/Keysight-analog-trig.jpg)
Keysigh year 2016 talk about trigger because they are married with they old ASIC. Of course they need say analog trigger is normal and most usual or as they say - digital trig is fairly rare (in truth not rare even on 2016 or well before).  :-DD  (of course they also have more modern higher level systems)

Siglent overall
(https://siglent.fi/pic/SDS1000X-E-4ch/SDS1004X-E-fuzzy-principle-adc-memory-t.png)

And Siglent trigger (as also same principle in all scopes what have true digital side trigger. Of course details are then different and so on.
(https://siglent.fi/pic/SDS1000X-E/Siglent-dig-trig-t.jpg)

If thinking with analog is more easy... think - imagine there is DAC after ADC just in this line what come from ADC to trigger engine. These AC/DC/HF/LF circuits can then imagine in mind they are integrated to this line between this imagined DAC and Trigger "engine". So in mind imagined pathway is  ADC--DAC--Trigger AC/DC coupling and LF/HF filters -- Trigger "engine" what then do all these edge, pulse, runt, slope...lot of different functions.

Just successful using need bit exercise and all we have some learning curve. This can not do if just twiddle knobs as they are gameboy joystick. Best if if have some different test signals for exercises/training and carefully think what it is doing when adjust. After understand how it works living with it is more easy... other way... just mess and nightmare.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: sng61 on November 30, 2020, 02:07:41 pm
Apparently these are the consequences of the language barrier and the translation of special terms.
I’ll say it even shorter:
In both parts of the video, there is the same signal, the customary aiming at the probe from the AC supply voltage sine 50 Hz 220v. Nothing hard to sync and display. But in the first part of the video the cursor is not visible, and in the other it is visible. There is no difference, DC or AC. The cursor is either visible or not, regardless of the change in the type of DC or AC. It should not be.
I have been working with this oscilloscope for more than 3 years, and similar situations with the disappearance of the cursor, do not happen very often, but periodically, and unpredictably.
I explained it more clearly?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: McBryce on November 30, 2020, 02:50:19 pm
Hi sng61,
    I think you are missing what he is trying to say. There are TWO settings that are important. One is the coupling of the CHANNEL: AC or DC. The other is the coupling of the TRIGGER: AC or DC. I'm not familiar with that particular scope, but you seem to have changed the TRIGGER coupling half way through the video.

McBryce.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on November 30, 2020, 02:56:00 pm
Apparently these are the consequences of the language barrier and the translation of special terms.
I’ll say it even shorter:
In both parts of the video, there is the same signal, the customary aiming at the probe from the AC supply voltage sine 50 Hz 220v. Nothing hard to sync and display. But in the first part of the video the cursor is not visible, and in the other it is visible. There is no difference, DC or AC. The cursor is either visible or not, regardless of the change in the type of DC or AC. It should not be. I explained it more clearly?

Buuh....

I hope you watch carefully even once your own video.

Of course it do as you tell but you forget now one change what can see in video.

Really take now time and think, look your video and think. Read what I have told.

Yes you change there in video INPUT coupling AC/DC. Then also you twiddle trigger level knob.

But now I give one homework.

Why you do not note at all you have changed TRIGGER coupling between AC and DC. (when you paused video recording after 0:37 and then do something and after then you continue video recording or you have edited part of record away. . Sorry but after my long explanation you still continue this claim and reason is obvious. Trigger level cursor is not at all active when TRIGGER coupling is AC. It is disabled in this case and also independent of INPUT coupling AC or DC

Look before time position 0:37 there is TRIGGER coupling AC and trigger level marker off as designed..
After this point you do something (looks like video recording is paused) after then there can see that TRIGGER coupling is now DC and trigger level cursor(line) displayed when you move it and it disappear after time period automatically when not changed but leave trigger level mark in right side of display. Just as it is designed and works well.
Also after then somewhere around 0:47 you turn CHANNEL coupling to DC and of course this do not affect trigger level cursor. 
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: sng61 on November 30, 2020, 03:48:09 pm
Oh, this is not an easy job - to explain through a translator))  8)  |O

https://youtu.be/FsnhopZEPGk
From 0 to 0.37 is the first video where I recorded the "anomalous behavior" of the cursor, that is, its disappearance. Everything works fine, signal clearly synchronized, but the cursor is not visible! Both by the synchronization of the signal and by the numerical readings, it should be visible in the displayed field - but the cursor is not visible! This is a rare case. And without a difference, AC or DC, there is NO cursor AT ALL in any modes, if they disappeared once. Until I will reboot. Maybe I explained it more clearly?
After 0.37 comes the second part of the video. This is another video, shot with NORMAL operation of the oscilloscope, with the same settings and signal!!! Nothing has changed in the synchronize, trigger, channel.... and other settings! Nothing!!!!! And in this part (after 0.37) there are both AC and DC. This video is simply glued when editing the general video to show that the oscilloscope usually works NORMAL, and the trigger line is visible in all modes and settings.

P.S. Now... it seems to have understood what the problem is. The "Coupling" setting is spontaneously reset (knob "setup" on section "Trigger") to the "AC".

Thanks everyone for the help! ))
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: mawyatt on November 30, 2020, 05:10:53 pm
Somewhat related to these trigger discussions is the scope's ability to handle an small input with a large relative DC level without employing AC coupling and still achieve a reliable trigger.

To do this the input waveform DC value must be compensated (subtracted out) at the input preamp front end to keep the preamp & subsequent stages from saturation. The trigger comparison must come after the DC compensation. The DSO should have a low noise high resolution DAC capable of injecting a DC term at the front end to remove or reduce the signal's DC signal term and re-center the result around zero for the subsequent stages.

For example, consider an input of 0.004vpp @ 0.1Hz with a DC offset of 1.995 volts. This is a DC value 500 times the signal component, normally removed with AC coupling (5Hz) but at 0.1Hz the input is severely attenuated as shown. Note the input is at 500uv/div and sweep is 1s/div.

Result with DSO (5Hz -3dB) AC coupling,
[attach=1]

Result with DC coupling input using offset @ -2V
[attach=2]

Best,
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: McBryce on November 30, 2020, 05:50:42 pm
It's not spontaneously reset. Modern scopes can be set to retain the previous setting when newly started or return to a default. The settings in your video are completely different in the second half of your video. This is plainly obvious in the video you posted. I suggest you spend more time understanding how this instrument works.

McBryce.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: mawyatt on November 30, 2020, 06:47:52 pm
Good suggestion McBryce and follows the First Four Proverbs from Lab EE Bible taught in EE Church.

1) Don't let Murphy in!!
2) If it ain't broke, don't fix it!!
3) Know thy Instruments!!
4) Repeat the 3 above Over and Over!!

We used to have a Dunce Cap filled with burnt and broken components that you had to wear if you messed something up :o 

Best,
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: sng61 on November 30, 2020, 07:18:38 pm
1. The settings in your video are completely different in the second half of your video. This is plainly obvious in the video you posted.
2. I suggest you spend more time understanding how this instrument works.
You have noticed everything very correctly! )
1. Yes, this is the cause of the cursor disappearing problem. I did not rebuilded the Trigger->Setup->Coupling to "AC". It happens somehow without my direct participation. And such surprises get in the way of work.
2. Yes, and I agree with that. Studying the device is a good thing)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ebastler on November 30, 2020, 07:55:20 pm
I did not rebuilded the Trigger->Setup->Coupling to "AC". It happens somehow without my direct participation. And such surprises get in the way of work.

Hmm... You have shouted at the forum community, who tried to help you, in huge letters, and have implied that we are all fools. You have overlooked the clear pointer to AC trigger coupling from three different people five separate times. And now you are still telling us that "this happened on its own, without my participation". Yeah, right.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on November 30, 2020, 08:02:55 pm
I did not rebuilded the Trigger->Setup->Coupling to "AC". It happens somehow without my direct participation. And such surprises get in the way of work.

Hmm... You have shouted at the forum community, who tried to help you, in huge letters, and have implied that we are all fools. You have overlooked the clear pointer to AC trigger coupling from three different people five separate times. And now you are still telling us that "this happened on its own, without my participation". Yeah, right.
Yes I don't see how this can happen without some operator input.
To change from an AC coupled trigger to a DC coupled trigger requires the Trigger Setup menu to be open however if it is and the coupling box is open/active a small movement/bump of the multifunction control will change the trigger coupling.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: sng61 on December 01, 2020, 01:05:32 am
Quote
who tried to help you, in huge letters
Thanks for helps.
I'm not 'english". And through the translator, many meanings slip away. And so you yourself have to think a lot and look for the true meaning of what was said.

"this happened on its own, without my participation". Yeah, right.
yes. Really. without my participation. I did not go to this menu. This is the problem. And by default it is configured there for DC.

And... why shouldn't the cursor be visible if we see its numerical representation (in "AC")?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on December 01, 2020, 04:07:14 am
1. The settings in your video are completely different in the second half of your video. This is plainly obvious in the video you posted.
2. I suggest you spend more time understanding how this instrument works.
You have noticed everything very correctly! )
1. Yes, this is the cause of the cursor disappearing problem. I did not rebuilded the Trigger->Setup->Coupling to "AC". It happens somehow without my direct participation. And such surprises get in the way of work.
2. Yes, and I agree with that. Studying the device is a good thing)

1. No, it do not happen itself. It have changed due to your action. Directly or indirectly, wirth its own it do not change. It is not human what can accidentally or by intuition do some unexpected or just totally irrationally.
2. Studying is important. "Know your instrument" is not said without reason.

In first place I can easy tell you "turn Trigger coupling to DC and your problem is away"  But, because these trigger things are one of most important things to understand I try you hit it yourself because after then it is fixed better in your memory.

Some times when I give some guidance in real life I tell "Keep trigger coupling always DC  UNTIL you know exactly you need AC coupling".  But then it also need be careful with this advice. Because this is highly dependent what you are doing with scope.
In some cases, specially if playing with scope with unknown signal and probing fast this and that... some times Trigger coupling AC is better for these very simplest things when we use very common simple edge trigger like we have done tens of years with analog scopes etc. With modern digi scopes we need learn more and stop using it like old analog scope - mostly.
In developing etc lab we normally know lot of about signals what we are looking. But example in some repair work, situation may be very different specially if we do not follow tightly some repair service manual, then we are like in dark forest and probing this and that and there is some times important this "idiot proof" trig what was in analog scopes just normal... least with Tektronix who was king of trigger hill.


Also scope factory default is trigger coupling DC.  Perhaps TRIGGER coupling change back to DC if you have done factory default or default depending how you have "programmed" this secondary default buttton.  Also I do not remember how this model AUTO button set it but perhaps it force trigger coupling to DC.
Or perhaps in some phase you have thinked you set trigger source to AC (as can see you have there tested 50Hz AC signal and these cases some times is wise to use trigger source AC) but you have changed accidentally trigger coupling AC but this accident can not easy happen in setup menu system.. they are so different place, if this happen it is human random mistake or what ever...

Just thumb rule "Keep trigger coupling DC until there is reason for  AC coupling".

Remember that there is Channel AC and DC coupling what can handle most cases. And it have nothing to with TRIGGER AC/DC coupling.

In ALL cases, if input is AC or DC coupled, TRIGGER is looking only digital 8 bit data what is after ADC and nothing else and there  this data stream values between  0-255 and this data is - you need think it is "DC coupled" independent of input AC/DC coupling. It is "DC coupled" if you look it with trigger engine eyes.

In analog scope (simplified),  input AC coupling makes also trigger AC coupled but trigger AC coupling do not make inputs AC coupled because this trigger AC coupling is in trigger signal signal pathway.

But, in full digital side trigger DSO, input AC/DC do not affect at all trigger coupling. Trigger coupling is always after ADC and input AC DC coupling do not affect there. Data stream is always between 0 - 255. (irl 2's complement) Now there in data stream is signal changing and there we can then think how we filter this data for trig. And in first place there after ADC (in this stream what is going to trigger system) AC/DC/LFreject "coupling" filter and HF low pass filter. Of course main stream from ADC to memory goes directly. (except that there can be other kind of DSP filtering. In some scopes there is user adjustable LPF/BPF/HPF and some other things, also some more intelligent things).

Thre is on and BIG Achilles in these systems. All we know frequency aliasing when ADC see over Nyquist limit frequencies, other words over sampling frequency/2 frequency components and then we see some not wanted things on screen. (this is totally different than image aliasing due to display pixels and displayed data what image antialiasing oscilloscope can also have).

But this freq aliasing we see with our eyes on the screen... specially when ADC data is decimated for reduce displayed sampling rate.  All understand it and know it, if not, sad.

But there is other thing. Digital trigger system "eyes" are looking ADC data stream. If ADC have seen in its inputs higher than true samplerate/2 frequencies this data stream from ADC include these alias frequencies! This may disturb digital trigger engine.
There is no way to know what is alias and what is true. There is not simple way to detect this without some further information. But this normal 8 bit data stream do not have this information. It have only 8 bit raw values and that's all.  How DSP filter know what is alias and what is not. Think about it.
Analog side pathway trigger system do not have at all these some bad things but it have some other bad things or poor things, specially if it is cheap and simple.

After example older DSO or after analog scopes some things need forget and some things need learn. If still use both, like me, must not forget anything but keep all them parallel in memory.
 


In this case there was SDS1202X-E.  This scope have 2 totally different trigger systems.
2 main channels have pure full digital side trigger system "trigger engine".
Ext Trig is totally different. It is conventional analog pathway - and analog comparator trigger system. This Ext Trig is very simple and performance is far away from main channels full digital side trigger functions and very reduced performance in many ways.

In full digital trigger system first advantage is that trigger engine see perfectly same digitized waveform data what is also data for display this signal. In conventional analog side pathway trigger system analog comparator can see different signal what ADC see, specially with higher frequencies, fast edges etc. Of course it can do very perfect but it is very challenging and not cheap.
Disadvantage (other than aliasing) is in digital trigger that trigger is absolutely limited to ADC scale. If signal is over ADC FS  it can not even try to trig. If ADC output is constant  0xFF  trigger game is over but still before ADC there can be nice signal.  After ADC trigger, system is totally blind for all this. (if we do not take some information from before ADC)
Least what manufacturers need do is warning about Clipping! but many do not even this. Siglent, please... do it.
But conventional analog trigger can still happy see there signal what can trig depending its dynamic range.

Sorry after edit and rewrite etc this is now bit messy...

Perhaps some day these trigger basics need write so that they all are explained clearly, simply and in good order with some  example images and drawings.

It is sad today usually manufacturers do not anymore make User Reference Manuals where are every single details explained with perfect data and even math if need. Today even these normal level User Manuals are - with one word - poor.
Perhaps reason is due to fact that no one read these and today this continuous developing FW ... no one can keep these manuals up to date. As can see...


BTW, new User Manual is for all SDS1000X-E and X-U models. So who ever have old manual please use this more new one.

SDS1000X-E/SDS1104X-U  User Manual version UM0101E-E05A  July, 2020 (https://www.siglenteu.com/download/10068/)

At this time this new UM can find only in SDS1104X-U documents (least in Siglent EU area official sides). SDS1000X-E documents list have only older manual.





Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: sng61 on December 01, 2020, 10:26:38 am
First of all, I want to clarify that I am sincerely grateful to you and everyone who is trying to help people understand and fix their problems.

But I will also clarify the point that I did not manually change the trigger from DC to AC, I remember that very well. And I remember this because in my daily work I use only the most basic functions, without changing settings other than the display scale, or the constant-variable channel mode AC/DC. Usually I need to quickly look at the signal - that's all. Therefore, if I go somewhere to rebuild the trigger, I will remember that. And such periodic spontaneous switching to the trigger's AC mode with the lossing of the cursor is not very convenient in everyday simple work.

Therefore, if the developer has the ability to somehow correct this "spontaneous switching", then it will be more convenient to use.

P.S. I consider the 1202x-e model to be one of the best solutions in this price category. And I am very pleased that I managed to acquire it in due time, and it has been working for more than three years without serious problems.
So far I see two shortcomings "for every day" - too small print on the screen (difficult to read, especially for the elderly), and this is the periodic disappearance of the cursor. The rest is super! )
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on December 01, 2020, 11:28:03 am
First of all, I want to clarify that I am sincerely grateful to you and everyone who is trying to help people understand and fix their problems.

But I will also clarify the point that I did not manually change the trigger from DC to AC, I remember that very well. And I remember this because in my daily work I use only the most basic functions, without changing settings other than the display scale, or the constant-variable channel mode AC/DC. Usually I need to quickly look at the signal - that's all. Therefore, if I go somewhere to rebuild the trigger, I will remember that. And such periodic spontaneous switching to the trigger's AC mode with the lossing of the cursor is not very convenient in everyday simple work.

Therefore, if the developer has the ability to somehow correct this "spontaneous switching", then it will be more convenient to use.

P.S. I consider the 1202x-e model to be one of the best solutions in this price category. And I am very pleased that I managed to acquire it in due time, and it has been working for more than three years without serious problems.
So far I see two shortcomings "for every day" - too small print on the screen (difficult to read, especially for the elderly), and this is the periodic disappearance of the cursor. The rest is super! )

Yes I understand well.
But now it rise question.
In first place, in beginning of video, there was Trigger coupling AC. You tell that you do not remember or believe you have turned it to AC. Ok let it be now so and think you have not accidentally or somehow turned it to AC. Then in position 0:37 you stop video. You did something. After then video continue and now there is Trigger coupling DC. 
If I understand now ok, you have not changed trigger coupling or least you do not know it. (now from AC to DC)

Is it now so that these both things are mysterious. How it have changed to AC. And when video  record is stopped and after it continue it is now itself again changed and now to DC.

I can not imagine any function in this scope what change trigger coupling without known reason. Of course there is more than lot of setup and settings combinations and if some rare combination pops up some bug, it is least in theory of course possible but I have not seen any reports around web..

Can you do so that you do full factory default (not front panel default button but in menu there is factory reset)
Go to Save/Recall select there Recall menu and then recall Factory Default.

Look your Trigger coupling is DC.

When you use your scope try detect situation when this Trigger coupling suddenly change to AC. And try keep record in mind what things you just did with buttons and in setup menu system.

It is always possible that there is some well hidden Bug in FW what pops up in some quite rare combination when user handle it and make adjustments.

Time ago I have used quite lot of this model when I did some documents about its functions and overall about digital scopes for some beginners or for peoples who come to digital scopes from analog scopes world. I have never hit this "feature" that it change itself trigger coupling without my control.  If there is bug, it need find so that it can repeat. If there is some reason in your handling it is also good you find it.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: sng61 on December 01, 2020, 12:47:45 pm
ok.
At default: Trigger - Settings - Coupling  - "DC".
0-0.37 was captured when I discovered the cursor was lost. I turned the knobs to show the reaction to synchronization and so on.
0.37 - ... This video was filmed after restarting the oscilloscope, and not after twisting the settings. This video is about normal standard normal operation, with the cursor displayed. But using the example of the same signal, for comparative clarity.
If I knew after what actions the trigger jumps to the AC, I would of course say about it right away) But now I will follow even more closely, perhaps with the help of your tips we will get to the reasons for such wonders)

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: McBryce on December 01, 2020, 01:02:34 pm
Is there a chance that you possibly pressed the "AUTO" button at some stage?

McBryce.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: sng61 on December 01, 2020, 01:47:45 pm
Yes, it is possible. But after "auto" it is still "DC". Default - too.

Over the past few hours, I've gone through all the options for pressing buttons and changing signal display modes during normal operation. But the trigger never hit the AC. After all, I said that such a transition is rare, and it is not clear in what situations. Moreover, the situations were all not unique, without any special settings. Was once even immediately after turning on the oscilloscope (a few days ago, may have remained in memory after the last jump to AC).

I think (as simple user) it would be nice if the developer made it so that the cursor was visible at any trigger settings. At least as an optional setting.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: VanBudd on December 01, 2020, 04:17:39 pm
Ive got the SDS2104X+ with the firmware 1.3.7R5 (should be the newest).

I have random issues after boot, mostly first boot the day.
No buttons or touchscreen react and no lights on the buttons. Screen is there but no signal.
Cant do anything, i waited 10 minutes still the same.
After reboot everything is normal and works as it should.

I tried flashing the firmware again, still same issue.

Does anyone have similar problems?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on December 02, 2020, 07:50:44 am
Ive got the SDS2104X+ with the firmware 1.3.7R5 (should be the newest).

I have random issues after boot, mostly first boot the day.
No buttons or touchscreen react and no lights on the buttons. Screen is there but no signal.
Cant do anything, i waited 10 minutes still the same.
After reboot everything is normal and works as it should.

I tried flashing the firmware again, still same issue.

Does anyone have similar problems?

If you have still "return without reason" window open. Just return it. Even there is possible it is somehow "upgrade" reason or not. Just rework it as it was after out from box (if not, imho, not big problem)  and return. There can also be some very rare HW problem. This kind of mainboard assembly process have many many things what can go wrong and problem is hidden so that factory do not meet this problem even when they use short aging system for these.  Also problem can be in psu. Of course because you live in Germany also you can use Siglent own repair center there and sure they repair it or change.
This model demand is high.  But example in Batronix in Germany status for SDS2104XPlus is: "in stock"
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: VanBudd on December 02, 2020, 10:14:33 am
Heres a video of the behavior.

(deleted)

In the end it goes through the channels, but i cant do anything.

Looks like some kind of self testing.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: VanBudd on December 02, 2020, 11:22:15 am
I got support from tautech (siglent distributor).

So far it looks like the problem is solved, but only time will tell.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on December 02, 2020, 11:40:05 am
I got support from tautech (siglent distributor).

So far it looks like the problem is solved, but only time will tell.

It have now handled least in two thread nearly like high alarm. It is now nice if you also explain what was reason and solution so peoples do not so much wonder what it was. Also this youtube video now live endless  in web and after then peoples wonder ... oh Siglent is like this. What is purpose? It is now best to explain and not leave open questions around... Please.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 02, 2020, 11:42:31 am
I got support from tautech (siglent distributor).

So far it looks like the problem is solved, but only time will tell.

It have now handled least in two thread nearly like high alarm. It is now nice if you also explain what was reason and solution so peoples do not so much wonder what it was. Please.
SDS2000X Plus recovery package was required and another update with the latest FW.
So far so good, had to try recovery two times.
Second try it boot up normally and everything looks fine.

Time will tell if the problem is solved.
Stay tuned  ;D

Special thanks to tautech for the very fast and kind support!
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on December 02, 2020, 11:53:18 am
I got support from tautech (siglent distributor).

So far it looks like the problem is solved, but only time will tell.

It have now handled least in two thread nearly like high alarm. It is now nice if you also explain what was reason and solution so peoples do not so much wonder what it was. Please.
SDS2000X Plus recovery package was required and another update with the latest FW.
So far so good, had to try recovery two times.
Second try it boot up normally and everything looks fine.

Time will tell if the problem is solved.
Stay tuned  ;D

Special thanks to tautech for the very fast and kind support!

What was reason for this episode???
Something happen in "mod"?

It is now best to explain and carefully. There is youtube what whole world watching and look... shitlent. 
It need correct and soon if problem is solved or if mod was reason if it can suspect.

If there is boot problem it mostly is detected in Siglent factory ageing process what include enough run for detect lemons.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 02, 2020, 12:05:47 pm
@ rf-loop
If 'mod' caused this it will be a first that I'm aware of but of course this is possible as we do not know the 'mod' process used or even how long VanBudd had the DSO. We only know that the FW had been upgraded to V1.3.7R5 before the freeze problem.

SN# reported to Siglent as they have requested me to do.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: VanBudd on December 02, 2020, 12:14:34 pm
Video was just for demonstration so the people here can see whats going on during boot.
It was the fastest way for me to show the Problem.
I will delete it the people who can help me saw it, so no reason to let it on youtube.

Same Problem show up again so sadly recovery und update firmware didnt help.
I ordered the scope last week so its relatively new.
I used the python script from this thread (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-hack/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-hack/)) with scope-ID and just entered the keys.
This and the FW update were the first things i did when i received it, so i cant tell if the issue was there before hack and update.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on December 02, 2020, 12:44:46 pm
Video was just for demonstration so the people here can see whats going on during boot.
It was the fastest way for me to show the Problem.
I will delete it the people who can help me saw it, so no reason to let it on youtube.

Same Problem show up again so sadly recovery und update firmware didnt help.
I ordered the scope last week so its relatively new.
I used the python script from this thread (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-hack/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-hack/)) with scope-ID and just entered the keys.
This and the FW update were the first things i did when i received it, so i cant tell if the issue was there before hack and update.

Very good it is now solved and system recovery solve this problem.
Now need carefully watch it and NOT do anything inside system what may even in theory corrupt NAND data and after sure this problen is gone... then ...world of nice experimental things is open....
And if it now  sooner or later even once show real boot problem like have been then it is time to do conclusion...
It is good scope and you have also Siglent own whole EU area repair center near you. They can do all what need. If it next time do something same it is not time to recovery but real inspect what is reason (perhaps leave main board for factory deep look or what they think is wise.   First time I hear this.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: VanBudd on December 02, 2020, 01:09:14 pm
Video was just for demonstration so the people here can see whats going on during boot.
It was the fastest way for me to show the Problem.
I will delete it the people who can help me saw it, so no reason to let it on youtube.

Same Problem show up again so sadly recovery und update firmware didnt help.
I ordered the scope last week so its relatively new.
I used the python script from this thread (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-hack/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-hack/)) with scope-ID and just entered the keys.
This and the FW update were the first things i did when i received it, so i cant tell if the issue was there before hack and update.

Very good it is now solved and system recovery solve this problem.
Now need carefully watch it and NOT do anything inside system what may even in theory corrupt NAND data and after sure this problen is gone... then ...world of nice experimental things is open....
And if it now  sooner or later even once show real boot problem like have been then it is time to do conclusion...
It is good scope and you have also Siglent own whole EU area repair center near you. They can do all what need. If it next time do something same it is not time to recovery but real inspect what is reason (perhaps leave main board for factory deep look or what they think is wise.   First time I hear this.

As i wrote problem returned.
So system recovery wasnt solving the problem.
I will connect to siglent repair center and let you know what they say.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on December 02, 2020, 01:53:30 pm
Video was just for demonstration so the people here can see whats going on during boot.
It was the fastest way for me to show the Problem.
I will delete it the people who can help me saw it, so no reason to let it on youtube.

Same Problem show up again so sadly recovery und update firmware didnt help.
I ordered the scope last week so its relatively new.
I used the python script from this thread (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-hack/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-hack/)) with scope-ID and just entered the keys.
This and the FW update were the first things i did when i received it, so i cant tell if the issue was there before hack and update.

Very good it is now solved and system recovery solve this problem.
Now need carefully watch it and NOT do anything inside system what may even in theory corrupt NAND data and after sure this problen is gone... then ...world of nice experimental things is open....
And if it now  sooner or later even once show real boot problem like have been then it is time to do conclusion...
It is good scope and you have also Siglent own whole EU area repair center near you. They can do all what need. If it next time do something same it is not time to recovery but real inspect what is reason (perhaps leave main board for factory deep look or what they think is wise.   First time I hear this.

As i wrote problem returned.
So system recovery wasnt solving the problem.
I will connect to siglent repair center and let you know what they say.

Ok, this make it quite clear there is problem in HW or in things what recovery do not handle.
Good it give this sign as soon as now and not much later...

Also tell them (if they do not already know )  this thread here so they take it seriously without extra noob class questionaries what only loose time in this case.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: cvanc on December 07, 2020, 09:43:02 pm
RE:  SDM3045x

Is there some way to stop the "milliBel chatter" when using dB mode?  dBm mode works fine, but it is almost impossible to use Relative dB on an analog tape deck, the signals just aren't steady enough and the meter readout is so busy as to be unreadable.

Maybe you could add something to relative dB mode like a manual decimal point selection?  Or a "never drop into .001dB mode" switch?

Thank you.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: jbauman on December 09, 2020, 03:43:09 pm
 I just recently got a new SDS2104X Plus scope, firmware version 1.3.7R5. The very first project I wanted to use it on has a serial data link which I hooked up to with the intention of decoding it with the logic analyzer UART decode function.

 As it turns out this data link is using 125000 baud 9N1 serial settings, but the UART decode configuration only allows a maximum data length of 8. Everything else was configurable to match my situation except for the data length.

 Would it be possible for Siglent to add 9-bit data length in a future firmware release?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: maxspb69 on December 14, 2020, 07:16:19 pm
This is not the most convenient option, but 9bit UART  can be decoded.

In the decoder settings, set  the "Parity" field to "Mark" or "Space" mode. The data will be decoded correctly, and the state of the most significant 9th bit will be displayed as Parity Error (Red color byte). You can understand what is happening on the you UART bus.

But all this is a temporary solution,  decoding 9 bit UART must be implemented!
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 24, 2020, 08:25:25 am
Thanks all for your great support over 2020 and may next year be a fine one for us all.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=1137522)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ExaLab on December 28, 2020, 12:11:16 am
Hi everyone.
I just bought a new SDS1204X-E oscilloscope. Can any of you help me solve the below problem?

What I observe on my unit and which leaves me rather perplexed is that the noise superimposed on some tracks (channel 2 in particular ... the magenta) visibly increases (up to 7x (17dB)) when the related trace is moved from the center of the screen and positioned near the edge (using the vertical positioning knob).
This happens both with all the channels set in the GND position and in more marked mode, with the channels set in DC (or AC)
As you can see from the attached images, the thickness of channel two (magenta) and channel 3 (cyan), visibly increases when the related trace is placed near the edge of the screen.

Can someone check that?
The test is very fast: leave all the bnc inputs free, set all the four channels to 1V/div and to DC coupling, 100uS/div, acquisition normal, full BW and using the vertical positioning knob try to move the tracks near the edge of the screen.
Notes: shorting to ground the BNC inputs nothing changes and setting the channels input coupling to GND the anomaly persists in a less marked way (as you can see from the images). The unit has the last FW version.

What leaves me stuck and unexplained is why the noise increases by moving the track away from the center and why this issue mainly affects the channel two?

Your help is of fundamental importance to me to understand if it is a HW problem (as I suspect) and therefore ask for the instrument replacement.

Thanks a lot to everyone
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on December 28, 2020, 02:51:29 am
As can see also Ch3 noise rise when it is adjusted to bottom in your image where Ch2 have much more noise.

For not mess with things before basics have checked.
Have you done self calibration?
It need do so that it is power on least half hour if it have been in around constant room temperature. If it have been just before power on very cold place this time need rise up to hour but in southern EU this is not case. In some northern countries it may be, yes I have tested it in Finland.

After it is fully warmed and reached internal temperature equilibrium (minimum 30min) start self calibration and leave it run untouched. Before self calibration, and this is mandatory, all input BNC need be open, nothing must be connected to these. Also environment must not have very high EMI during self cal, least not near input BNC.

This may affect or not but it need know it is done and it is done perfectly.

Now if this do not change situation and ch2 is stil worst and ch3 also some clearly more fat trace than 1 and 4 it need look more.
First default scope and turn all channels on. (1us div, 1V/div, probe multiplier 1x, DC coupled and so on... just as default is)
Just as your images first is. All channels separately visible very near center.
Take screen shot 1

Keep CH1 and CH4 so that they are near center but bit different so that can see both separately.
Turn CH2 near top so that whole trace is visible.
Turn CH3 near bottom so that whole trace is visible.
Take screen shot 2

Keep  CH1 and CH4 so that they are near center but bit different so that can see both separately.
Change CH2 to near bottom and Ch3 near top (just opposite as previous)
Take screen shot 3

Keep all untouched but now turn Ch1 and Ch 4 off. So that samplerate is then 1GSa/s

Take screen shot 4

Change CH2 to near top and Ch3 near bottom (just opposite as previous)
Take screen shot 5

Change Ch2 and Ch3 near center both separately visible.
Take screen shot 6.

If there is clear sign that Ch2 and/or Ch3 have same kind of situation what was in your previous message images it have some hardware problem. There is so many possible reasons that speculations and testing this and that, tests after tests are waste of time. This is not normal (if it is carefully and right self cal) Depending dealer perhaps you can ask they change it. If they do not accept but your return without reason time window is still open just return.

But these what I ask test may tell tiny bit more what is perhaps going on there. If you do not want do these tests, just make sure sefcal is well and right made and if situation is still as your images then it have some but rare HW problem. There can be small effect but your CH2 noise when it is moved to bottom is so bad I have never seen in this model.





 
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ExaLab on December 28, 2020, 11:11:45 pm
Perfect! Tomorrow I will have some time and I will proceed with the steps you suggest. I hope to find a solution to the problem (although I think it may be a HW problem).

It's really nice to know that there are people like you, involved and willing to help, so ... thanks again!!
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: KVM2007 on December 29, 2020, 08:56:47 pm
I am applying to the of the representatives of the company Siglent as regards the scope SDS1202X-E (& SDS1204X-E maybe).
This model has the smallest memory among its competitors  - 14 Mpts only!
Rigol DS1202Z-E    - 24 Mpts
Owon  XDS3202E     - 40 Mpts
but even it is hardly used due to the missing sample rate 100MSa/s in the hardware.
For example restriction falls to 5ms/div 50MSa/s / 3.5Mpts dual channel mode as far as the hardware does not let us use the entire range 100MSa/s / 7Mpts on this basis. There is always the job we encounter according to the Murphy's law where we would necessarily need missing 100MSa/a at 7/14 Mpts
The restriction is due to ADC HMCAD1511 which has got an internal divider x1/x2/x4/x8 and lets us work with sample rate 500/250/125/62.5 MSa/s
It is impossible to get 100MSa/s without separate generator. How we get 50/25... MSa/s I do not know but this is not important.
I would like to suggest adding optional use of ADC divider x4 125MSa/s, that will help to get 125MSa/s / 7Mpts at 4ms/div for dual channel mode and 125MSa/s / 14Mpts at 8 ms/div for single channel mode.
It nonclassic step of scale 1-2-5 that is why I would like to suggest its activation by option of Utility (page 4/4) - "125MSa/s Enable".
The need is not big but when it arises there is no alternative.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ExaLab on December 30, 2020, 12:05:57 am
I performed the self-calibration as you suggested but nothing has changed! Below are also the screenshots you requested.
From them I observe that when I exclude channels 1 and 4 and the sample rate goes to 1Gs / sec, the problem is much less obvious. Why this?

In any case, if you assure me that on your oscilloscope this inexplicable issue is not present (with all 4 channels active and with my same setup!), being still in time to return the instrument (or ask for its replacement), I believe that I will do this.

As a last step, therefore, I only ask you to confirm me that you are reasonably convinced that my unit is affected by a malfunction.

I'll let you know how the story ends ... in the meantime, a huge thank you!
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on December 30, 2020, 07:35:38 am
I performed the self-calibration as you suggested but nothing has changed! Below are also the screenshots you requested.
From them I observe that when I exclude channels 1 and 4 and the sample rate goes to 1Gs / sec, the problem is much less obvious. Why this?

In any case, if you assure me that on your oscilloscope this inexplicable issue is not present (with all 4 channels active and with my same setup!), being still in time to return the instrument (or ask for its replacement), I believe that I will do this.

As a last step, therefore, I only ask you to confirm me that you are reasonably convinced that my unit is affected by a malfunction.

I'll let you know how the story ends ... in the meantime, a huge thank you!

On the image 2 vertical pixel is one ADC step.
Many times noise affect so that it change randomly between two steps some times 3 steps when we are in this voltage level.
If you turn it to faster time scale and set diplay mode dots you see these real ADC samples. This is normal for this kind of ADC and front end also.

Now in worst case your CH2 show there is some kind of noise what is around 6 ADC steps. This is too much, absolutely too much when 1V/div.
This scope have unknown problem. Also it looks like problem is not in DC offset system. Because it disappear when ADC switch to interleaved mode.  (in 4 channel mode ADCs run in 500MSa/s mode and when there is in this case CH1 and CH4 these both ADC run 1GSa/s mode).  Why it affect so much when it change this ADC working mode is unknown to me, of course can speculate this and that but it do not solve this problem at all.

Because you are still inside return without reason time window, perhaps most simple to you is return it or if you want and seller accept, change it due to abnormal strong signal channel noise level when use vertical offset and they handle with swap due to it have men fault at arrive. This what we can see in images is not normal in any case when this scope model is normal health unit.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: bdunham7 on December 30, 2020, 04:38:22 pm
As a last step, therefore, I only ask you to confirm me that you are reasonably convinced that my unit is affected by a malfunction.

I'd say your unit is malfunctioning compared to mine and I would not be satisfied with that.  I would be interested to see what that noise looks like.  Try setting it up so that you have the fat trace and then speed up the timebase to 5nS/div, then do a single shot.  Also do the single shot in dots mode.

But that's just curiosity.  I think your scope is defective.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ExaLab on December 30, 2020, 07:24:32 pm

This scope have unknown problem. Also it looks like problem is not in DC offset system. Because it disappear when ADC switch to interleaved mode.  (in 4 channel mode ADCs run in 500MSa/s mode and when there is in this case CH1 and CH4 these both ADC run 1GSa/s mode).  Why it affect so much when it change this ADC working mode is unknown to me, of course can speculate this and that but it do not solve this problem at all.

I agree, very strange behavior... the noise increases linearly with the DC offset (this is a fact).
It could be as follows: the DC offset reference is affected by a noise that is correlated (i.e. synchronous) to the 1 GSa/s and somehow incorrelated (i.e. asynchronous) to the 500MS/s.
If so, the superimposed noise would only be evident in the second case.

Anyway, in the absence of further developments, I'll proceed with the return of the instrument!

What I find a bit strange is the fact that although I sent a detailed report to Siglent's customer support, until now they were unable to give me any valid solution to this issue. I hope it ends well!
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ExaLab on December 31, 2020, 02:15:13 am
On the image 2 vertical pixel is one ADC step.
Many times noise affect so that it change randomly between two steps some times 3 steps when we are in this voltage level.
If you turn it to faster time scale and set diplay mode dots you see these real ADC samples. This is normal for this kind of ADC and front end also.

Tomorrow, I'll take some acquisitions in order to measure the real amount of the noise. Just to avoid misunderstandings, when you speek about 1 step you refer to two distinct levels whose difference is 1LSB. So, with two steps you refer to three distinct levels whose total width is 2LSB and so on...   Is it correct?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Bicurico on December 31, 2020, 09:15:26 am
Hi.

Due to the fact that mu SSA3021X got bricked recently, I had to open it in order to get access to the SD card reader. In the process I had to cut the warranty sticker - at the time I was so upset with the fact my device was not working I simply did not have the patience to apply Dave's technique of sticker removal.

My device is out of warranty for quite some while, so the broken sticker doesn't matter. But somehow my ADS kicks in and it deeply annoys me that the sticker is not in it's virgin state.

Hence I would like to know if someone could perhaps provide me with a new sticker. Of course I pay whatever reasonable costs for sending me the sticker.

Again, there is no other reason than having everything as new. My device still has the screen sticker, too. Also, now harm done warranty-wise, either, as it expired.

Thanks,
Vitor
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 31, 2020, 09:41:14 am
Good luck getting Siglent warranty stickers. Wanted some for years for the very few warranty repairs I do but asked several times and none were ever supplied. So now I just make sure my paperwork records are perfect should they ever be needed.

And.....pull that screen protector off !  :horse:
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Bicurico on December 31, 2020, 09:49:50 am
Nope! The screen protector stays on!   :)

Well, asking doesn't cost money so I had some hopes.

A good after sales support is important and details like stickers are not to be neglected.

If Siglent wants to compete with the big ones they should consider calibration stickers, too.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 31, 2020, 09:56:43 am
If Siglent wants to compete with the big ones they should consider calibration stickers, too.
Products now come with proper Cal certs.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Bicurico on December 31, 2020, 09:58:39 am
Yes. But they certainly have an expiry date. Are Siglent distributors able to perform calibration services and issue new certificates?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 31, 2020, 10:04:22 am
Are Siglent distributors able to perform calibration services and issue new certificates?
If they have a NIST certified Cal lab....I don't.

Something best left to the professional Cal labs......however most service manuals list a performance verification procedure so for those that have calibrated equipment they can check any instrument still performs to original specification.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Bicurico on December 31, 2020, 10:15:15 am
 :-+
Thank you.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ebastler on December 31, 2020, 10:40:22 am
Good luck getting Siglent warranty stickers.

Maybe there's an opportunity for a gray market here?  ;)
Owners of out-of-warranty Siglent instruments could carefully remove and resell their intact stickers. ::)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 31, 2020, 11:11:00 am
Happy 2021 to all.
12.08am Jan 1 2021 downunder in NZ.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Bicurico on December 31, 2020, 11:39:46 am
Good luck getting Siglent warranty stickers.

Maybe there's an opportunity for a gray market here?  ;)
Owners of out-of-warranty Siglent instruments could carefully remove and resell their intact stickers. ::)

I pay 5 Euro for your intact sticker! :)

Of course the sticker is not neededk, especially after warranty runs out. But like when I put my cups in the cupboard, all symetrically arranged, I do like to have all stickers intact and my devices in prestine condition.

It's just one of many oddities of my self.

Happy 2021 everyone!
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: KVM2007 on December 31, 2020, 12:55:08 pm
Quote
I pay 5 Euro for your intact sticker! :)
...
Dave's technique of sticker removal.
This Dave's technique?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMeB-Om277g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMeB-Om277g) 
I have a new Siglent with sticker, and I have no warranty. But I don't like Dave's technique  :palm:
If it's a David Copperfield, it doesn't work for 5 Euros
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Martin72 on December 31, 2020, 01:24:51 pm
Best way to remove a sticker complete is to heat it up with a fan - but not too hot, of course.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on December 31, 2020, 03:08:59 pm
On the image 2 vertical pixel is one ADC step.
Many times noise affect so that it change randomly between two steps some times 3 steps when we are in this voltage level.
If you turn it to faster time scale and set diplay mode dots you see these real ADC samples. This is normal for this kind of ADC and front end also.

Tomorrow, I'll take some acquisitions in order to measure the real amount of the noise. Just to avoid misunderstandings, when you speek about 1 step you refer to two distinct levels whose difference is 1LSB. So, with two steps you refer to three distinct levels whose total width is 2LSB and so on...   Is it correct?

Just this is enough reason for ask change or just return. Why you do not send it back to seller, he can talk with Siglent what to do. This is not some perhaps problem. This image tell enough. This is failure. Period.  ;)

Do not wait this case go old..  this is clear FOA case (Failed on Arrival)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: KVM2007 on December 31, 2020, 04:55:27 pm
Best way to remove a sticker complete is to heat it up with a fan - but not too hot, of course.
All the world's experience on the EEVblog
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-799-how-to-remove-warranty-void-security-stickers/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-799-how-to-remove-warranty-void-security-stickers/)  :)

Last post - super!  :-DD
Quote
In an amusing bit of irony, several companies in the United States are being urged by the Federal Trade Commission to remove the “Warranty Void if Removed” stickers and scrap other onerous policies that appear on their products because they are unenforceable garbage.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ExaLab on January 20, 2021, 10:51:11 pm
On the image 2 vertical pixel is one ADC step.
Many times noise affect so that it change randomly between two steps some times 3 steps when we are in this voltage level.
If you turn it to faster time scale and set diplay mode dots you see these real ADC samples. This is normal for this kind of ADC and front end also.

Tomorrow, I'll take some acquisitions in order to measure the real amount of the noise. Just to avoid misunderstandings, when you speek about 1 step you refer to two distinct levels whose difference is 1LSB. So, with two steps you refer to three distinct levels whose total width is 2LSB and so on...   Is it correct?

Just this is enough reason for ask change or just return. Why you do not send it back to seller, he can talk with Siglent what to do. This is not some perhaps problem. This image tell enough. This is failure. Period.  ;)

Do not wait this case go old..  this is clear FOA case (Failed on Arrival)


Thank you so much for your valuable support!

As anticipated, I did some acquisitions on the amounth of noise of channel two in the worst conditions: it was between six and seven bits (as you predicted...)
More, the nature of this noise seems to be correlated to the sampling frequency, in the sense that it occours with an apparent frequency of 250 MHz...

Anyway, I have returned the product and am waiting for the seller to send me a new one... I should receive it by the end of the month.
I'll let you know how it ends.

In the meantime, thanks again!!

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: CharlotteSwiss on January 26, 2021, 12:32:18 am
Siglent sds1000 (my is 1202x-e)
The oscilloscope crashes many times when press print key  :--
I tried at least 10 sticks, even small ones, always the same story.
I read that someone returning the penultimate firmware had no more problems.
Looking at the firmware updates, I saw that the creation (unnecessary) of the PNG folder has been implemented.
From tests done, the bug happens much less (but it happens the same anyway) if when you save the png files on the pc, then you don't delete the PNG folder from the stick.
However, I am convinced that if the Siglent engineers wanted to review the updates from the penultimate to the latest firmware (in png files, the Print button, the USB key) they could provide customers with a bug-free firmware!
thanks
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: blurpy on February 06, 2021, 03:03:04 pm
Is it safe for the Siglent instruments to connect a ground strap to them (to ground me) or do I need something else to connect the strap to?

I have a SDG2042X with an earth terminal in the back and a SPD3303X-E with a ground terminal in the front. Since the ground terminal in the front of the PSU is so accessible it seems like the best option for me to connect the ground strap, but I don't know if I can damage something that way? Is it the same with the function generator? The strap has a 1M resistor.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on February 06, 2021, 08:34:31 pm
Is it safe for the Siglent instruments to connect a ground strap to them (to ground me) or do I need something else to connect the strap to?

I have a SDG2042X with an earth terminal in the back and a SPD3303X-E with a ground terminal in the front. Since the ground terminal in the front of the PSU is so accessible it seems like the best option for me to connect the ground strap, but I don't know if I can damage something that way? Is it the same with the function generator? The strap has a 1M resistor.
If you can trust the integrity/safety of you mains supply earth I see no problems with what you propose.
However if a fault occurs somewhere and your mains earth 0V becomes elevated your ground strap will be too.

Be careful.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: blurpy on February 07, 2021, 11:39:17 am
Is it safe for the Siglent instruments to connect a ground strap to them (to ground me) or do I need something else to connect the strap to?
If you can trust the integrity/safety of you mains supply earth I see no problems with what you propose.
However if a fault occurs somewhere and your mains earth 0V becomes elevated your ground strap will be too.

Be careful.

Oh, that's an interesting point. What is a safer way to connect these ground straps?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ebastler on February 07, 2021, 01:10:32 pm
What is a safer way to connect these ground straps?

A water pipe or your room heater (assuming it is a water-filled radiator connected to central heating), if they are within reach.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: blurpy on February 07, 2021, 05:00:38 pm
A water pipe or your room heater (assuming it is a water-filled radiator connected to central heating), if they are within reach.
I tested my radiator against mains earth and it's 2 ohm. What makes the radiator safer than directly using mains earth?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ebastler on February 07, 2021, 05:26:00 pm
Whether it is safer or not will probably depend on the details of you hme's wiring. In my house (Germany, late 1960s), the water supply provides the "real" protective earth: There is no separate, dedicated earth for the electrical system, and its PEN is tied to the water pipes. Hence, one could envision scenarios where that connection goes bad or is forgotten by a sloppy electrician.

(On the other hand, I have also read about cases where part of the copper water lines were replaced by modern plastic tubes, resulting in broken earth connections there...)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Arturcd on February 25, 2021, 10:27:45 pm
Hi all,
I have siglent shs806 scoope with burned measure board.
2 resistors burned but I don't know their value. They have numbers RW36 and RW37. Maybe you can help me.
Thank you in advance
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Tjuurko on February 26, 2021, 03:16:23 am
You can try to compare with a typical wiring diagram:
https://cdn.hackaday.io/files/21300911299200/FS9922-DMM4-DS-13_EN.pdf
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on February 26, 2021, 08:04:36 am
Hi all,
I have siglent shs806 scoope with burned measure board.
2 resistors burned but I don't know their value. They have numbers RW36 and RW37. Maybe you can help me.
Thank you in advance
Welcome to the forum.

RW36 = SMD code 47A = 301 Ω
RW37 = SMD code 1001 = 1k

Both confirmed as correct with SMD tweezer measurements in circuit.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 16, 2021, 06:34:09 pm
Just a note stating Siglent's branch in the EU has a new address:

SIGLENT Technologies Germany GmbH
Add: Staetzlinger Str.  70
86165 Augsburg, Germany
Tel: +49(0)-821-666 0 111 0
Fax: +49(0)-821-666 0 111 22
info-eu@siglent.com
www.siglenteu.com (http://www.siglenteu.com)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on March 17, 2021, 06:30:58 am
Yep, Last year autumn it move.  ;)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 17, 2021, 06:34:50 am
Yep, Last year autumn it move.  ;)
Your autumn or my autumn ?  ;)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on March 17, 2021, 08:56:39 am
Yep, Last year autumn it move.  ;)
Your autumn or my autumn ?  ;)

It depends on where I am or have been  ;) ;)
 
But if look where Siglent EU subsidiary is...
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on March 22, 2021, 03:21:32 am
In  Topic: "SDS2202X-E FPGA bug or broken?"

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds2202x-e-fpga-bug-or-broken/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds2202x-e-fpga-bug-or-broken/)

There is detected severe class trigger/acquisition bug in SDS2000X-E series oscilloscopes with latest FW 1.1.19R5
It need Urgently repair, better if repaired yesterday... than later.


Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Blue on March 30, 2021, 09:00:48 pm
Dear Siglent,

Can you comment on the extremely hot resistors as reported here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg3535852/#msg3535852 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/msg3535852/#msg3535852)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: CharlotteSwiss on June 17, 2021, 12:46:36 pm
continue my tests to understand where the freez problem derives from saving an image file on a USB key: I have often noticed that when I insert the key in the Siglent 1202x-e, it often recognizes it, then after a few seconds it ejects it, then recognizes it ... Sometimes, when it is recognized, if I move the key it ejects it ... I have already proceeded to slightly raise the two retaining tabs of the USB port, and I have also cleaned the contacts well ... I should check something else for prevent this from happening?   :-//
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: robert.rozee on June 17, 2021, 02:29:15 pm
i've struck USB flash drives where the plug's connection to the PCB inside has become intermittent, either the pins fracture and snap, or the pads get lifted off the PCB. if you can open up the drive, it may be worth checking. repair is usually possible, but rather fiddly.

these drives suffer quite a bit of abuse - carried round in pockets, knocked or bent while plugged in, the occasional trip through the washing machine!


cheers,
rob   :-)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: CharlotteSwiss on June 17, 2021, 02:40:17 pm
sure, but the unit is quite new and used with caution .. In the meantime I would rather not open the box ..
I did some tests on the + 5v that power the usb port: I have 5,175v on the port stably, even during the unit startup phases. So no usb power problem. But maybe the recognition of the usb stick happens through pins 2 and 3 I guess (and not pin 1 = + 5 and pin 4 = gnd).
Meanwhile I would just like to study it, if it were necessary I would be able to change the usb port of the siglent, but not now ...  :phew: :palm:

I remain convinced that the problem is software (firmware) and not hardware .. :-//
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: electr_peter on June 17, 2021, 04:06:48 pm
I will put link about SDG2000X in this topic siglent-sdg2042x-rotary-encoder-poor-performance (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sgd2042x-rotary-encoder-poor-performance/)
SDG2000X firmware improvement suggestion - make more responsive rotary encoder.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: McBryce on June 17, 2021, 05:08:01 pm
sure, but the unit is quite new and used with caution .. In the meantime I would rather not open the box ..
I did some tests on the + 5v that power the usb port: I have 5,175v on the port stably, even during the unit startup phases. So no usb power problem. But maybe the recognition of the usb stick happens through pins 2 and 3 I guess (and not pin 1 = + 5 and pin 4 = gnd).
Meanwhile I would just like to study it, if it were necessary I would be able to change the usb port of the siglent, but not now ...  :phew: :palm:

I remain convinced that the problem is software (firmware) and not hardware .. :-//

Has the USB stick possibly got a boot sector that's trying to boot and being rejected? Also check that the contacts aren't oxidised (on both sides) or lost their spring.

McBryce.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: CharlotteSwiss on June 18, 2021, 07:11:52 am

Has the USB stick possibly got a boot sector that's trying to boot and being rejected? Also check that the contacts aren't oxidised (on both sides) or lost their spring.

McBryce.

I don't know, I tried with at least 6 different keys.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: hpw on June 19, 2021, 08:46:43 am

SIGLENT Technologies Germany GmbH
Add: Staetzlinger Str.  70
86165 Augsburg, Germany
Tel: +49(0)-821-666 0 111 0
Fax: +49(0)-821-666 0 111 22
info-eu@siglent.com
www.siglenteu.com (http://www.siglenteu.com)

does made the Siglent FW update business nor even better, while waiting from there now for month for the SDG2K modulation bug to fix  >:D and any more

In other words a customer survey is from those Godfather company would show up the real business model..... so best to sent the gear back all within a big container to rent  :-DD


Hp
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: CharlotteSwiss on June 19, 2021, 09:52:29 am
I have been waiting for 1 year to fix the 1202x-e fw, but everything is silent...
I'll try to put an old fw, I read that it should probably not have the problem with the print key; if so ....
 I'm almost willing to sell this tool and get one (of another brand, of course)
 :-//
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Johnny B Good on June 21, 2021, 09:03:38 pm
Siglent sds1000 (my is 1202x-e)
The oscilloscope crashes many times when press print key  :--
I tried at least 10 sticks, even small ones, always the same story.
I read that someone returning the penultimate firmware had no more problems.
Looking at the firmware updates, I saw that the creation (unnecessary) of the PNG folder has been implemented.
From tests done, the bug happens much less (but it happens the same anyway) if when you save the png files on the pc, then you don't delete the PNG folder from the stick.
However, I am convinced that if the Siglent engineers wanted to review the updates from the penultimate to the latest firmware (in png files, the Print button, the USB key) they could provide customers with a bug-free firmware!
thanks
 :popcorn:

 I tried to reply but the server cocked up... again!

 I won't bother you with details and cut straight to the chase. If it's still within Siglent's three year warranty, I suggest you try making a claim since you seem to be suffering a hardware, rather than a firmware, issue.

 I've had mine since November 2018 with no such problems and applied the latest firmware update nearly two years ago. There may never be another firmware update but you can take heart from the fact that Siglent haven't yet indicated that it's getting close to EoL, unlike the SDS2000X Series.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: StillTrying on June 21, 2021, 10:25:45 pm
I have been waiting for 1 year to fix the 1202x-e fw, but everything is silent...

I was waiting for 3 + 1/2 years, before I gave up. :o
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-cml-firmware/msg1197693/#msg1197693 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-cml-firmware/msg1197693/#msg1197693)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: CharlotteSwiss on June 21, 2021, 11:35:06 pm
I had read about a user who had solved the problems with the penultimate fw: I tried, the problem is gone ... no more rain dance is needed, superstition ... even pressing the print button repeatedly the device works fine. Moral of the story: Siglent engineers in compiling the latest fw of 1202 made some mistake which leads to that problem (it can be for a certain batch of devices)
If I had access to the compilation of the fw I think I would find the bug too ...
There is no desire to solve problems, it's much easier to develop new products to launch on the market!
Quite disappointed!  :--

Note for those who have the siglent 1202 and suffer from the blocking problem by pressing the print key: you too try to load the penultimate fw, you will see that the problem disappears
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Johnny B Good on June 22, 2021, 03:45:28 pm
 Thanks for that tip and glad to hear that you found a work around fix to the problem.

 I'll keep that in mind if I start seeing that apparently one time lock up event I experienced a few weeks ago on a more regular basis.

 Just to be clear, by 'penultimate firmware update' you're referring to the 1.3.23 released 2018-09-27 ? I'm currently on firmware 1.3.26 EN dated 2019-08-07(??? see below). Looking at the creation dates on the download folders, I seem to have applied that update less than 4 weeks after its release (2019-06-17 according to the revision history pdf).

 I note I also have folders for the three preceding firmware updates all dated 2019-02-19. That just means I'd downloaded those as a precautionary measure in case an issue like yours were to arise. After my experience with uBlox's shit attitude to archiving old versions of u-centre, I didn't want to take the risk of the earlier firmware versions suddenly vanishing from all existence. ::)

 I doubt I'm not the only one who grabs what they can whilst it's still there for the taking, especially when it comes to earlier, perhaps less demanding of the hardware, firmware versions that could prove to be a 'Life Saver' should a new bug arise or an ageing effect make itself felt with the latest, perhaps more demanding firmware.

 Although I've been using the SDS2104X+ (long since updated to the 2504 spec) for the past 11 months, I've no intention of selling my trusty 1202X-E, it's just too usefully portable and economic of power consumption (2/22W versus the 4/54W of the 2104), hence my using it for testing the fridge startup current surge demand (plus it starts up in just 16 seconds versus the 46 seconds it takes for the 2104 get up off its fat arse and actually do something more useful than displaying its "Blinken Lights")  :) ).
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: CharlotteSwiss on June 22, 2021, 11:06:53 pm
Thanks for that tip and glad to hear that you found a work around fix to the problem.

ehi johnny, the firmware number is correct the date no; but I downloaded the fw from the europe site
https://www.siglenteu.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-oscilloscopes/#sds1000x-e-series (https://www.siglenteu.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-oscilloscopes/#sds1000x-e-series)

you maybe from the America site?
however the ADS file is the same I think ...

In my case, with the last fw the problem is a pain in the ass: you rule the settings and when I want to save the image I press print and often everything crashes. I have to unplug from the home network, restart, set the Silgent again .. and light a few candles!
With the penultimate firmware (1.3.23) saving with the print key is immediate, never a crash!

If Siglent engineers don't fix the latest firmware, I SELL this Siglent and turn to other manufacturers.
They certainly caused the problem by integrating one of the 10 points of improvement that the latest fw 1.3.26 brings.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Johnny B Good on June 23, 2021, 12:15:18 am
 Comparing the date shown on the American site suggests this is where I download my update from (I'm in the UK).

https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-oscilloscopes/#sds1000x-e-series

 Perhaps there is a subtle difference between the two differently dated 1.3.26 version ADS files?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: CharlotteSwiss on June 23, 2021, 12:47:15 am

 Perhaps there is a subtle difference between the two differently dated 1.3.26 version ADS files?

in my opinion no difference, the bugs fixed (see pdf) seem the same to me. The size in bytes is also the same.
Tomorrow I load the latest version, but I'm sure the problems with the print key will come back .. I'll let you know
For sure I don't keep a device with an old fw and with a dozen recognized bugs.

night  ;)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nicoreflex on August 12, 2021, 02:19:21 am
Hi, I'm from Argentina, I'm writing with the google translator.
i bought a singlet sds 2302 oscilloscope and i want to make it work with lxi tools but it won't detect it.
I can ping the oscilloscope and it sends and receives packets ok.
with lxi discover no service foud
with lxi discover -m no service found but with
lxi scpi -a 192.168.1.43 ¨ * IDN? ¨ it detects it for me
* IDN siglent, sds2302, xxxx, 1.2.2.2
and I can only take screenshot ok ..
some way to install it so that it detects it and can record video ??? .. thank you very much
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on August 12, 2021, 03:44:43 am
Hi, I'm from Argentina, I'm writing with the google translator.
i bought a singlet sds 2302 oscilloscope and i want to make it work with lxi tools but it won't detect it.
I can ping the oscilloscope and it sends and receives packets ok.
with lxi discover no service foud
with lxi discover -m no service found but with
lxi scpi -a 192.168.1.43 ¨ * IDN? ¨ it detects it for me
* IDN siglent, sds2302, xxxx, 1.2.2.2
and I can only take screenshot ok ..
some way to install it so that it detects it and can record video ??? .. thank you very much
Welcome to the forum.

SDS2000 is an older model and does not appear on the list of LXI Tools supported instruments but as SCPI commands are common to many models you could have some functionality if you get a stable connection.
Some threads found with a search may be of help:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/need-help-connecting-siglent-1202x-e-scope-to-lxi-tools/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/need-help-connecting-siglent-1202x-e-scope-to-lxi-tools/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/open-source-lxi-tools-and-liblxi-v1-0-released-for-gnulinux/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/open-source-lxi-tools-and-liblxi-v1-0-released-for-gnulinux/)
And this from Siglent NA:
https://siglentna.com/video/quick-remote-computer-control-using-lxi-tools/ (https://siglentna.com/video/quick-remote-computer-control-using-lxi-tools/)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nicoreflex on August 12, 2021, 08:31:13 pm
Hello, thanks for the answer .. I understand that it is not compatible with lxi .. but with the easyscope program that is the one that brings the oscilloscope it would have to work well and when I connect it, apart from putting the equipment very slow, it does not show the oscillogram in real time has a lot of delay and only shows images at times.
We tested it on 3 oscilloscopes of the same model with some friends who bought the same ones and it happens exactly the same ...
we have installed firmware 1.2.2.2
I pass him a compressed video of what the oscilloscope looks like ..
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on August 12, 2021, 10:58:20 pm
Hello, thanks for the answer .. I understand that it is not compatible with lxi .. but with the easyscope program that is the one that brings the oscilloscope it would have to work well and when I connect it, apart from putting the equipment very slow, it does not show the oscillogram in real time has a lot of delay and only shows images at times.
We tested it on 3 oscilloscopes of the same model with some friends who bought the same ones and it happens exactly the same ...
we have installed firmware 1.2.2.2
I pass him a compressed video of what the oscilloscope looks like ..
Which version of EasyScope are you using ?

When SDS2000 was available EasyScope worked fine but later it was EasyScopeX that may have problems with these older 2000 DSO's....I'm not sure.
Check for the latest EasyScopeX version here:
https://int.siglent.com/download/softwares/?CateIdss=1
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nicoreflex on August 12, 2021, 11:16:41 pm
Hi we tested all the easyscope versions of the siglent page .. and we tested the version that came with the original cd in the box (which should be the one that works) and it does the same.
We are 3 friends who bought this same model of oscilloscope in dhrim (official seller of Argentina of siglent) 6 months ago and we have not been able to make any of the three work with any version of the easyscope ... we have sent an email to the page siglent officer and they have not answered us .. that's why I really appreciate your collaboration ...
we don't know what else to do ...
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: yi_min82 on September 19, 2021, 01:47:43 am
hi, i am new here. my friend gave me a SDS1102x-c , how to switch the language to english? now is chinese.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on September 19, 2021, 02:09:40 am
hi, i am new here. my friend gave me a SDS1102x-c , how to switch the language to english? now is chinese.
Welcome to the forum.

X-C is a China only model so unless it can be converted to an international model you are unfortunately stuck with the Chinese UI.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ExaLab on September 29, 2021, 05:16:26 pm
Hello to all. I am one of the many happy owners of the SDS1204X-E oscilloscope.

I have a minor problem with the anti-glare panel in front of the display.

Since the purchase, looking at the panel against the light (with the device turned off), I notice the presence of two vertical bands of about 10mm in width, slightly lighter than the normal appearance of the bottom. I always gave up as I thought it was just dirt ...
A few days ago I tried cleaning the screen (even with some mild cleaner) but without success. I noticed this strange behavior: passing the damp cloth on the screen, near these bands, the water is arranged in such a way as to amplify the presence of these strange bands.

My question: have any of you noticed such problems on the display surface.
I also thought this fact is due to the presence of a thin display protective film that I have not removed but it does not seem to me that Siglent adopts these means.
Do you know if by chance there is a protective film to remove, because I do not see absolutely anything ...

Thanks a lot for the support!
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on September 29, 2021, 09:32:55 pm
Hello to all. I am one of the many happy owners of the SDS1204X-E oscilloscope.

I have a minor problem with the anti-glare panel in front of the display.

Since the purchase, looking at the panel against the light (with the device turned off), I notice the presence of two vertical bands of about 10mm in width, slightly lighter than the normal appearance of the bottom. I always gave up as I thought it was just dirt ...
A few days ago I tried cleaning the screen (even with some mild cleaner) but without success. I noticed this strange behavior: passing the damp cloth on the screen, near these bands, the water is arranged in such a way as to amplify the presence of these strange bands.

My question: have any of you noticed such problems on the display surface.
I also thought this fact is due to the presence of a thin display protective film that I have not removed but it does not seem to me that Siglent adopts these means.
Do you know if by chance there is a protective film to remove, because I do not see absolutely anything ...

Thanks a lot for the support!
At one time these scopes came with a plastic display overlay with a red tab to pull to remove it however it has been a while since they have been shipped with such and now only touch screen models have this overlay.

See if you can take pictures showing this display problem then maybe we can advise if you should claim a warranty on it.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ExaLab on September 30, 2021, 08:49:30 am
The imperfection of the screen panel is not very visible ... I will try to take some pictures.

Anyway, I don't think this issues justifies sending the instrument for repair (in my opinion, the risks would outweigh the benefits).

My idea would be to find the anti-glare panel as a spare part and replace it myself.
Do you know if Siglent can supply it as a spare part?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on September 30, 2021, 09:10:24 am
The imperfection of the screen panel is not very visible ... I will try to take some pictures.

Anyway, I don't think this issues justifies sending the instrument for repair (in my opinion, the risks would outweigh the benefits).

My idea would be to find the anti-glare panel as a spare part and replace it myself.
Do you know if Siglent can supply it as a spare part?
Please get some pics if you can as Siglent should know if they have a problem with the display or glass.
Sorry I don't know if the glass is available and Siglent have just gone for 7 days holiday.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: MT on September 30, 2021, 01:18:51 pm
Have anyone compiled a bug list for the 1104x-e?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ExaLab on September 30, 2021, 06:27:54 pm
The imperfection of the screen panel is not very visible ... I will try to take some pictures.

Anyway, I don't think this issues justifies sending the instrument for repair (in my opinion, the risks would outweigh the benefits).

My idea would be to find the anti-glare panel as a spare part and replace it myself.
Do you know if Siglent can supply it as a spare part?
Please get some pics if you can as Siglent should know if they have a problem with the display or glass.
Sorry I don't know if the glass is available and Siglent have just gone for 7 days holiday.

I did my best to highlight the defect found. Unfortunately in the picture you see very little what is quite evident to the naked eye.
In any case, the two vertical bands are clearly distinguished: the first in the center and the second on the right side of the screen.
By slightly wetting the screen, the water highlights the position of the two bands even better.

In my opinion I believe that the surface of the anti-reflective screen has been damaged by some processing residue...

The product was purchased in January 2021. I hope that Siglent recognizes the problem and will therefore send me the replacement of the anti-glare panel.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: kcbrown on September 30, 2021, 07:55:55 pm
Try cleaning the screen with isopropyl alcohol.  It's what I use to keep these screens clean and it does a good job, without damaging it (I use the 70% stuff for this, typically).
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on October 04, 2021, 07:00:24 pm
The imperfection of the screen panel is not very visible ... I will try to take some pictures.

Anyway, I don't think this issues justifies sending the instrument for repair (in my opinion, the risks would outweigh the benefits).

My idea would be to find the anti-glare panel as a spare part and replace it myself.
Do you know if Siglent can supply it as a spare part?
Please get some pics if you can as Siglent should know if they have a problem with the display or glass.
Sorry I don't know if the glass is available and Siglent have just gone for 7 days holiday.

I did my best to highlight the defect found. Unfortunately in the picture you see very little what is quite evident to the naked eye.
In any case, the two vertical bands are clearly distinguished: the first in the center and the second on the right side of the screen.
By slightly wetting the screen, the water highlights the position of the two bands even better.

In my opinion I believe that the surface of the anti-reflective screen has been damaged by some processing residue...

The product was purchased in January 2021. I hope that Siglent recognizes the problem and will therefore send me the replacement of the anti-glare panel.
Finally heard back from Siglent Germany and they would like it returned to the service center.
I'll send you a PM.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ExaLab on October 04, 2021, 10:10:34 pm
Tautech, thank you so much for your kind support!!
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: oz2cpu on October 28, 2021, 05:50:31 pm
Hello Siglent,
have you a thread for POWERSUPPLIES ??

for example the SPD3303

I got a few ideas, comments, and FEATURE requests
in fact : I promise to purchase one more, only own 2 of them allready, and like 7 other siglent products,
if you are ready to make one more model
SAME case, same display, same buttons, and almost also the same software
use the case SPD3303
but change the specifications from
3 outputs, 30 V  3A (one extra output 2.5 3.3 5.0V)
to
3 outputs, 300 V  0.3A (one extra output 2.5 3.3 5.0V)

this should be only a new transformator
changed a few transistors and such for higher voltage
it will also mean the voltage and current resolution pr digit will be changed 10 up and 10 down
but that is perfectly ok..

please ask your customers if they like this unit ??
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on October 28, 2021, 06:15:08 pm
160V is best they have right now and they can be series'd:
https://int.siglent.com/products-overview/sps5000x/
Check model specs for possibilities and limitations.

SPD3303X/X-E can also be series'd both by placing both channels in series and/or with multiple units up to the max isolation spec in the datasheet.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: 2N3055 on October 28, 2021, 07:58:31 pm
Linear 0-300V has some special challenges.. It is not as straightforward for a lab supply. Protection circuits have to be a bit different, as is SOA (secondary breakdown of series transistor for instance) etc..
Energy has to be controlled. Loop compensation is trickier (large dV/dt is needed)..
Not impossible, but not exactly same architecture as lower voltage.
As Tautech said, there is 2x160V from Siglent. It is a switcher though and 360W per channel. Channels can be put in series and you get 320V/2.25A source with 720W total. Actually, a bit scary device..
It is very good, for instance for testing AB class power amplifiers...

AIM-TTi PL250 is 250V/0,375A single channel that is quite decent... 
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: oz2cpu on October 28, 2021, 08:16:06 pm
>Linear 0-300V has some special challenges.. It is not as straightforward for a lab supply.

why ?
the 0-30 is made using 4 taps in a transformator, and relays, then a linear regulator.
lets do the same
0-300V again in 4 taps. and again a linear,
remember i request x10 voltage, and 1/10 the current = same watt out
and of course this will be same watt lost in the heat sink,
this way all mecanical desigs can be reused.
NPN transistors or fets exist that handle this voltage, no problem at all.
i really want a linear type, since I want to know all the noise i see is comming from the DUT / own designs.

if this is too hard. I could accept 2 individual (like the 2 x 30V is actually)
0-160V but lets then ask for 0.6A each = same watts as the original design.

then I just end using them in series mode, not parallel (i prefered to parallel hi voltage gear, not series)

why do I need this :
working with small-size AC/DC supplies is a nightmare, getting accurate, input voltage, current, and watts in high resolution
of the AC input, and to be able to measure on it, is just a pain,
but they work just as good on DC input, now it is isolated and current limited, much more safe, and much easier to work with.

at the moment i do use isolated AC/AC and then a variable transformator, then rectifier, and different size fuses,
the voltage is quite stable and I can get my job done, but the setup is looking like a terrible mess,
I prefer a regulated, and current limited supply, with live watt readout in good stable high resolution like my two SPD3303X units got.
so I need like 5 units in series to make the 300 V DC I need, it will take up too much desk space and cost a fortune,
it could be really nice with a unit exactly SAME size. get my point ? or am i compleetly off ??
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: 2N3055 on October 28, 2021, 08:47:04 pm
>Linear 0-300V has some special challenges.. It is not as straightforward for a lab supply.

why ?
the 0-30 is made using 4 taps in a transformator, and relays, then a linear regulator.
lets do the same
0-300V again in 4 taps. and again a linear,
remember i request x10 voltage, and 1/10 the current = same watt out
and of course this will be same watt lost in the heat sink,
this way all mecanical desigs can be reused.
NPN transistors or fets exist that handle this voltage, no problem at all.
i really want a linear type, since I want to know all the noise i see is comming from the DUT / own designs.

if this is too hard. I could accept 2 individual (like the 2 x 30V is actually)
0-160V but lets then ask for 0.6A each = same watts as the original design.

then I just end using them in series mode, not parallel (i prefered to parallel hi voltage gear, not series)

why do I need this :
working with small-size AC/DC supplies is a nightmare, getting accurate, input voltage, current, and watts in high resolution
of the AC input, and to be able to measure on it, is just a pain,
but they work just as good on DC input, now it is isolated and current limited, much more safe, and much easier to work with.

at the moment i do use isolated AC/AC and then a variable transformator, then rectifier, and different size fuses,
the voltage is quite stable and I can get my job done, but the setup is looking like a terrible mess,
I prefer a regulated, and current limited supply, with live watt readout in good stable high resolution like my two SPD3303X units got.
so I need like 5 units in series to make the 300 V DC I need, it will take up too much desk space and cost a fortune,
it could be really nice with a unit exactly SAME size. get my point ? or am i compleetly off ??

Yeah do that. Nothing wrong with that in theory. You do that, and then make a dead short on the output, and then disconnect short. Do it with two stranded cables, clear about 20 mm from both + and - and then unwind the strands and fluff them up a bit, and then spark away against each other... And let me know how it ended..

As I said, you need to control energy,  so small capacitors on output, which  makes it less stable. So you need design that handles that. But it needs to be fast, because, ideally it needs to swing 300V in  same time a low voltage one swing 30V...  Cascode for serial element are often used..etc etc.. Current limiter needs to be super fast, to prevent discharging that reservoir capacitor trough power transistor before it reacts.. at 300-400 V energy is substantial.
Actually some of the best (and most robust) HV PSU are made by using vacuum tubes for serial regulation element (like old HP-712B). One positive side with them is that they fail safe.. Unlike transistors that go short first and open only if there was enough energy that it already destroyed everything connected..
Switchers could be also made quite robust.

Also check GW Instek GPR-30H10D..
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Martin72 on October 28, 2021, 10:38:56 pm
Maybe he should start a new thread....
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Dave2121 on November 29, 2021, 10:02:41 pm
Hello,

I received a new SDS1104X-U from Amazon two days ago.  I've used scopes at work periodically as an embedded software guy, but wanted to have one at home for working on silly projects.

There are a few things that seem a bit off to me, hopefully it's just me.

1: I can't adjust the compensation to flatten out the calibration signal
[attachimg=1]

As I adjust the compensation, the start of the pulse is always high.  As I adjust it gets kinda close, but then goes back up, never having hit level.

2: There is a fast periodic noise on the calibration signal:
[attachimg=2]

You can also see the compensation issue there too. 
Still attached to the calibration signal, that noise when zoomed in can look like:
[attachimg=3]


The compensation problem happens on other all channels:
[attachimg=4]




Also, I see a glitch when I have the probe connected to it's own ground:
[attach=5]
This is like 40-70 mV every 7.3ish us
[attachimg=6]


Am I doing something wrong with this scope?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Dave

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on November 29, 2021, 11:15:10 pm
Hi Dave
Probes can only be compensated when set to 10x.
See P8
https://int.siglent.com/u_file/document/SDS1000X_E_SDS1000X_U_UserManual_EN.pdf

Depending on the room you're in and if there's local interference the scope will pick it up. Commonly LED lighting or noisy wallwarts.
Probe reference lead clipped to the probe tip make an excellent RF loop.......remember this as it can occasionally come in handy.    ;)

Oh and a sanity check to see if you're picking up local interference or if it's the scope is in the channel menu ...... GND input coupling.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Dave2121 on November 30, 2021, 04:41:57 pm
Hello,
Thank you very much for the response.

I did have the probe on 10x, but the scope was still set to 1x.  I changed it and it didn't make a differnce.
The adjustment only goes from close to properly compensated to over compensated.  I cannot adjust to any under compensated.
[attach=1]

I did have fluorescent lights on, but turning them off didn't make a difference.  There aren't any powered wall warts very close.

This is the low value of the calibration signal showing the repeating noise:
[attach=2]


The following is taken with the scope probe connected to the ground of the calibration. 
[attach=3]

[attach=4]

I'm not sure exactly what steps to take for your sanity check.  I will check the channel coupling and set to GND, but should the probe be attached and if so, connected to what?

My questions:
Shouldn't I be able to obtain at least a little under compensation?
Like focusing a camera, it helps to be able to balance back and forth to find the right setting.

What is the 130kHz ish spike and how do I get rid of it?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Dave2121 on November 30, 2021, 07:21:43 pm
I had emailed Siglent and the response I received said it did sound like a hardware issue and suggested returning it to Amazon.

I like the feel and use of the scope, heavier than I expected which make it feel pretty solid.  I'll have to see if I can exchange it.

Thanks for the help.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on November 30, 2021, 07:33:14 pm
I had emailed Siglent and the response I received said it did sound like a hardware issue and suggested returning it to Amazon.

I like the feel and use of the scope, heavier than I expected which make it feel pretty solid.  I'll have to see if I can exchange it.

Thanks for the help.
Oh okay. Was about to get one out and check some of the stuff you have seen however if you're to swap it there's no need to. About the GND input coupling....using it removes any external signals....probes connected or not then you can examine if what you see on the display is something in the scope or something external.

Never discount that the scope can't see interference and despite checking for possible sources it can come from another room or some appliance you might never expect.
A year or so back a customer was 100% convinced there was something wrong with a SDS1104X-E we supplied and after several emails a wallwart behind a curtain and several meter away was discovered to be the culprit.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Dave2121 on November 30, 2021, 08:33:26 pm
I've been running it at home in one spot, so maybe something is there.... I'll check GND coupling, and since I'll be shipping it out from work, I'll give it a test there just to see if the noise is still the same.

Amazon's prices fluctuate quite a bit, and right now repurchasing it would cost me quit a bit more.  So it work properly I'd be very happy.

And if you do get the chance to check one you have, I would like to know the result.

Thanks again,
Dave
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on November 30, 2021, 09:03:51 pm
I've been running it at home in one spot, so maybe something is there.... I'll check GND coupling, and since I'll be shipping it out from work, I'll give it a test there just to see if the noise is still the same.

Amazon's prices fluctuate quite a bit, and right now repurchasing it would cost me quit a bit more.  So it work properly I'd be very happy.

And if you do get the chance to check one you have, I would like to know the result.

Thanks again,
Dave
OK if I get a chance.
Here's the X-U thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-1120-new-sds1104x-u-4-channel-100mhz-1gsas-economy-oscilloscope/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-1120-new-sds1104x-u-4-channel-100mhz-1gsas-economy-oscilloscope/)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 04, 2021, 07:03:44 pm
https://int.siglent.com/info/detail-54.html    :clap:
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: blurpy on December 05, 2021, 11:51:25 am
https://int.siglent.com/info/detail-54.html    :clap:
Is it good news though? Not sure how these things work in China. It's probably excellent for the bank account of the owners, but what about R&D? Firmware updates? Hackability? These changes has a tendency to change the focus to maximizing profits when they have to answer to the public who want results for their investments.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 21, 2021, 07:55:50 am
Siglent offers many thanks for your support and wishes you all a lovely Christmas and a wonderful 2022.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=1355318)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Martin72 on January 09, 2022, 11:56:33 pm
Hi,

Concerning the demo-board STB-3:

There is a JTAG connector on the bottom-side of the pcb.
IMHO this could be used for programming upgrades, question:
Are there any upgrades planned ?
Especially what "new" decoding patterns concerns ?
Actual siglent scopes could do more decodings like I2S, MIL 1553, SENT, Manchester and so on...

Martin
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: RikV on January 12, 2022, 12:14:26 am
I read somewhere that the SDM3065X consumes some 3W when powered-off. Is this only a stand-by power supply or is the oven of the LM399 kept alive?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on January 12, 2022, 12:44:39 am
I read somewhere that the SDM3065X consumes some 3W when powered-off. Is this only a stand-by power supply or is the oven of the LM399 kept alive?
See SDM3065X PCB pic here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg1329966/#msg1329966 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg1329966/#msg1329966)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: RikV on January 12, 2022, 02:15:54 pm
Yes, those are nice, rare pics of -part of- the 3056X innards. But that was NOT the question: Is the OOF power consumption just stand-by power loss or is it (part of it) used for some useful purpose (= keep LM399 on temp)? If not, this device does not comply to the latest rules on adapters and STBY power supplies (I may be wrong but I believe that is around 0.5W).
P.S.: Is there already a complete teardown of the SDM3065X on the WWW?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: McBryce on January 12, 2022, 07:33:52 pm
Yes, those are nice, rare pics of -part of- the 3056X innards. But that was NOT the question: Is the OOF power consumption just stand-by power loss or is it (part of it) used for some useful purpose (= keep LM399 on temp)? If not, this device does not comply to the latest rules on adapters and STBY power supplies (I may be wrong but I believe that is around 0.5W).
P.S.: Is there already a complete teardown of the SDM3065X on the WWW?

I'm pretty sure that the 0.5W standby rules apply only to commercial domestic devices such as TV's and other entertainment devices. There's no way that test equipment is included in the rules.

McBryce.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ebastler on January 12, 2022, 08:06:55 pm
I'm pretty sure that the 0.5W standby rules apply only to commercial domestic devices such as TV's and other entertainment devices. There's no way that test equipment is included in the rules.

Right, only "electronic household and office equipment" is in scope. This being an EU regulation, there is a lot more loving bureaucratic detail, but the headline covers the gist of it. Test equipment is not covered by the regulation.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: RikV on January 12, 2022, 09:00:29 pm
That is the kind of reaction I wanted! T&M equipment surely is NO comercial/consumer material.
However, T&M equipment HAS to  fulfill The Machine Directive, unless an explicit exception is granted.

But, still no answer to the point of the question: is the LM399 oven permanently heated?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ebastler on January 12, 2022, 09:43:44 pm
T&M equipment HAS to  fulfill The Machine Directive, unless an explicit exception is granted.

Now you are confusing me.
(a) I should think that the Low Voltage Directive applies to most T&M equipment, not the Machinery Directive.
(b) Are you implying that the Machinery Directive (or the LVD, for that matter) imposes the 0.5W standby power limit?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: mawyatt on January 12, 2022, 09:59:38 pm
But, still no answer to the point of the question: is the LM399 oven permanently heated?

Asked this awhile back, the answer was no.

Best,
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: stenfalp on January 18, 2022, 05:35:56 pm

No one else is reporting this same problem so if you can please try some things.


Same problem here.  |O
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: stenfalp on January 18, 2022, 05:39:15 pm
@ "Taking a screenshot with "SDS 1202X-E" using the blue Print button that saves the file to USB pen drive."


Same problem for me. Sometimes saving to USB with Print button works and sometimes the oscope gets stuck.
Product Type: SDS 1202X-E
Software Version 1.3.26
Hardware Version: 00-02
Serial No.: SDS1EDEQ3R4755

I tried to contact Siglent support when I updated the firmare (December 2019) but got no answer.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: oz2cpu on January 18, 2022, 05:45:27 pm
standby power ?
all my siglent equipment pull 2-4 watt EACH in standby mode,
so i power it all off at once, using a main lab switch,
i dont think the normal 0.5 w rules apply to lab equipment, but i would be happy if the level was in the 0.5w range,
then i would save the trouble with the main switch.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: stenfalp on January 19, 2022, 10:20:21 am
About the problem of the freeze pressing the Print button, I can help to diagnose the issue. I tried with different USB keys, with and without files in them and sometimes the system got stuck and sometimes not. I couldn't find out how to consinstenly repeat the problem.

Thanks,
Stenio
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: toomuchesr on January 19, 2022, 01:50:06 pm
Hi,

I've a SDS1104X-E (HW Version 00-03) which does not start the VNC server anymore. I really don't know since when, because I didn't use it often.

Observed with Firmware 7.0.6.1.26. I upgraded recently to 6.1.37R6 and then also to 6.1.37R8.

With all firmware versions the VNC does not start up.

I tried already to "reset" the scope with pressing MATH on startup. Which kinda worked, the scope lost its settings, but VNC is still dead.  :(

Any ideas?

Thanks!
Title: New bugs in SDS-1204XE
Post by: AnalogEngineer on January 19, 2022, 04:44:22 pm
Howdy,

With each firmware update of the 1204X-E I seem to be getting more bugs and more instability, not less.  Can anyone confirm if these are known bugs or what I can do? I'm also having a frequent hardware issue.

SDS1204X-E
6.1.37R8  OS 7.2 FPGA 11-8-21 HW 1-03

1) Sluggish and unresponsive controls.  At some point after being on about 1-3 min the controls all get sluggish. Changing time/voltage etc takes 2-10 seconds to respond. Reboot fixes - for a bit. This is a brand new bug in 37R8 I have never seen before. Unlike #4 below power still works when this happens but it's happening multiple times a day now. It seems to be setting relate because when it happens and I reboot and go back to the same set up it happens again quickly, while in other settings I never see it. I suspect it's related to very slow time bases (200mS/div or longer) in non scrolling mode.

2) Unable to hold and sometimes make wireless connection. Either it can't make the connection or it constantly drops it. This started about 3 or 4 firmware updates ago. The early version was rock solid.  The dropping has gotten better the last two updates, but the making has not. Router is a nice ASUS AC-88U with up to date Merlin firmware and 8' from the scope. I am using the Siglent TP wireless UB dongle.

3) When wireless connected and using in a a browser the scope is sluggish, takes a long time to load the page, and controls may take up to 30 seconds to respond. I suspect this is related to #2 as it also started in firmware updates after my original purchase. This affects the browser control only and the scope direct buttons and knobs work fine.  This also was not an issue in early firmware revisions but make the web interface unusable now.

4) Frequent scope crashes.The scope continues to work but you are locked out of all controls including power down. This has been an issue since day #1. The scope often crashes. Esp when turning knobs fast.  When it crashes it still displays fine but no knobs or buttons work and the power must be yanked to reboot.

Any comments on these would be most appreciated.

Thanx
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Martin72 on January 20, 2022, 09:21:17 pm
Hi,

Concerning the demo-board STB-3:

There is a JTAG connector on the bottom-side of the pcb.
IMHO this could be used for programming upgrades, question:
Are there any upgrades planned ?
Especially what "new" decoding patterns concerns ?
Actual siglent scopes could do more decodings like I2S, MIL 1553, SENT, Manchester and so on...

Martin


.....Nobody from siglent ?
Tautech, what are your thoughts about ?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nutron on January 20, 2022, 10:22:18 pm
The SPD3303X-E does not save static IPs.

When i change the static IP of the unit and close out the IP settings window and restart the unit , it resorts back to whatever IP the unit had picked before.

I think DHCP works though. But one should not have to set a static IP reservation in ones router so that the power supply uses that specific static IP.

I wrote like two times to the tech support about this and never heard back. Hope you will be more responsive.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on January 20, 2022, 11:24:33 pm
The SPD3303X-E does not save static IPs.

When i change the static IP of the unit and close out the IP settings window and restart the unit , it resorts back to whatever IP the unit had picked before.

I think DHCP works though. But one should not have to set a static IP reservation in ones router so that the power supply uses that specific static IP.

I wrote like two times to the tech support about this and never heard back. Hope you will be more responsive.
Correct, this bug was introduced in the last firmware V1.01.01.02.07R2.  ::)
However I do have a 07R2T1 version that corrects it.
PM your email and I can send it to you.

Hi,

Concerning the demo-board STB-3:

There is a JTAG connector on the bottom-side of the pcb.
IMHO this could be used for programming upgrades, question:
Are there any upgrades planned ?
Especially what "new" decoding patterns concerns ?
Actual siglent scopes could do more decodings like I2S, MIL 1553, SENT, Manchester and so on...

Martin
.....Nobody from siglent ?
Tautech, what are your thoughts about ?
Sorry Martin I forgot to follow up on this and it's a fine idea however just how happy Siglent will be to share their JTAG programming code I cannot say.
I'll follow it up.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nutron on January 21, 2022, 01:21:37 am
The V1.01.01.02.07R2 firmware version of the SPD3303X included a over current protection function which is really great. It might have helped me already.

Would be great if Siglent could also add an over voltage protection function as well.  Maybe use the other arrow key to bring up a menu for that.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: CharlotteSwiss on January 21, 2022, 09:58:15 am
About the problem of the freeze pressing the Print button, I can help to diagnose the issue. I tried with different USB keys, with and without files in them and sometimes the system got stuck and sometimes not. I couldn't find out how to consinstenly repeat the problem.

Search here in the forum, it is a known problem. It seems that it is not fixed!  :-//  :popcorn:
Title: Re: New bugs in SDS-1204XE
Post by: MT on January 21, 2022, 02:45:50 pm
Howdy,

With each firmware update of the 1204X-E I seem to be getting more bugs and more instability, not less.  Can anyone confirm if these are known bugs or what I can do? I'm also having a frequent hardware issue.

SDS1204X-E
6.1.37R8  OS 7.2 FPGA 11-8-21 HW 1-03

1) Sluggish and unresponsive controls.  At some point after being on about 1-3 min the controls all get sluggish. Changing time/voltage etc takes 2-10 seconds to respond. Reboot fixes - for a bit. This is a brand new bug in 37R8 I have never seen before. Unlike #4 below power still works when this happens but it's happening multiple times a day now. It seems to be setting relate because when it happens and I reboot and go back to the same set up it happens again quickly, while in other settings I never see it. I suspect it's related to very slow time bases (200mS/div or longer) in non scrolling mode.

2) Unable to hold and sometimes make wireless connection. Either it can't make the connection or it constantly drops it. This started about 3 or 4 firmware updates ago. The early version was rock solid.  The dropping has gotten better the last two updates, but the making has not. Router is a nice ASUS AC-88U with up to date Merlin firmware and 8' from the scope. I am using the Siglent TP wireless UB dongle.

3) When wireless connected and using in a a browser the scope is sluggish, takes a long time to load the page, and controls may take up to 30 seconds to respond. I suspect this is related to #2 as it also started in firmware updates after my original purchase. This affects the browser control only and the scope direct buttons and knobs work fine.  This also was not an issue in early firmware revisions but make the web interface unusable now.

4) Frequent scope crashes.The scope continues to work but you are locked out of all controls including power down. This has been an issue since day #1. The scope often crashes. Esp when turning knobs fast.  When it crashes it still displays fine but no knobs or buttons work and the power must be yanked to reboot.

Any comments on these would be most appreciated.

Thanx

You are supposed to update OS to 8 when using 6.1.37R8 i recall.
https://www.siglenteu.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2021/12/SDS1xx4X-E-Firmware-Revise-History-and-Update-Instructions.pdf (https://www.siglenteu.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2021/12/SDS1xx4X-E-Firmware-Revise-History-and-Update-Instructions.pdf)
Title: Re: New bugs in SDS-1204XE
Post by: blurpy on January 21, 2022, 05:57:58 pm
SDS1204X-E
6.1.37R8  OS 7.2 FPGA 11-8-21 HW 1-03

You are supposed to update OS to 8 when using 6.1.37R8 i recall.
https://www.siglenteu.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2021/12/SDS1xx4X-E-Firmware-Revise-History-and-Update-Instructions.pdf (https://www.siglenteu.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2021/12/SDS1xx4X-E-Firmware-Revise-History-and-Update-Instructions.pdf)
It's not actually mandatory to update, but it is in any case:

It seems older HW models report 7.2 with the latest OS update yet newer production units ex our stock update to 8.2.
This ^ has just been checked.

My old unit reports OS = 7.2 yet all the new features work just fine.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nunoavic on January 22, 2022, 07:59:17 pm
Hi everyone! I recently bought a Siglent SDG810 10 MHz Arbitrary Function Generator and it has some problems. Sometimes the software gets glitchy and the output button turns on the LED on the trigger button, but this is resolved with a on-off cycle.

The other issue is when the frequency is low (<30 Hz) and the amplitude is high or the generator is in DC mode on negative voltages, and the output is shorted, the screen goes very dim.
The opposite also happens (when output is +10V) the screen gets brighter but not as obvious. Sometimes this issue is not present and I don't know why.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on January 22, 2022, 08:48:37 pm
Hi everyone! I recently bought a Siglent SDG810 10 MHz Arbitrary Function Generator and it has some problems. Sometimes the software gets glitchy and the output button turns on the LED on the trigger button, but this is resolved with a on-off cycle.

The other issue is when the frequency is low (<30 Hz) and the amplitude is high or the generator is in DC mode on negative voltages, and the output is shorted, the screen goes very dim.
The opposite also happens (when output is +10V) the screen gets brighter but not as obvious. Sometimes this issue is not present and I don't know why.
New or used unit ?
Is the firmware the latest version ?
You can get all the firmware for SDG800 here:
https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?ProId=21
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nunoavic on January 22, 2022, 09:58:18 pm
New unit that came with latest firmware: 1.08.01.15

The screen issue is really weird. I suspect that the screen is using the same voltage rails as the output stage, but the power supply should be powerful enough to supply another 200mA (10V/50ohm=200mA)

Thanks anyway tautech!
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on January 22, 2022, 11:17:10 pm
New unit that came with latest firmware: 1.08.01.15

The screen issue is really weird. I suspect that the screen is using the same voltage rails as the output stage, but the power supply should be powerful enough to supply another 200mA (10V/50ohm=200mA)

Thanks anyway tautech!
Contact your supplier for a warranty claim as a faulty unit.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: nunoavic on January 23, 2022, 12:03:04 am
The thing is that the shipping costs to the supplier might be higher than the cost of repair. It might be just a simple fix to the power supply and i rather do it instead of waiting around a month before getting the new unit (which might have exactly the same issue, as it sounds like hardware).
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on January 23, 2022, 12:18:08 am
The thing is that the shipping costs to the supplier might be higher than the cost of repair. It might be just a simple fix to the power supply and i rather do it instead of waiting around a month before getting the new unit (which might have exactly the same issue, as it sounds like hardware).
Well if YOU open it you risk losing warranty !
Talk to your supplier about a RMA ticket which should be with free shipping.

We have dozens of SDG800 in the marketplace and none have the issues you describe.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: bicycleguy on January 23, 2022, 02:07:08 am
Hi,  I recently purchased and received a new SSA 3021X Plus Spectrum Analyzer from a dealer.  One minor thing that bugged me was the front N connectors had no protective caps on when received.  Shouldn't it have had something from the factory?

Is it recommended or necessary to have something to keep them clean.  When I'm using it a lot a keep N->SMA adapters on as I mostly use SMA cabling.  When I'm not going to be using it for a while I worry about the protruding adapters getting snagged on something in my crowded lab and would prefer something lower profile.

Any recommendations?

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on January 23, 2022, 03:37:28 am
Hi,  I recently purchased and received a new SSA 3021X Plus Spectrum Analyzer from a dealer.  One minor thing that bugged me was the front N connectors had no protective caps on when received.  Shouldn't it have had something from the factory?

Is it recommended or necessary to have something to keep them clean.  When I'm using it a lot a keep N->SMA adapters on as I mostly use SMA cabling.  When I'm not going to be using it for a while I worry about the protruding adapters getting snagged on something in my crowded lab and would prefer something lower profile.

Any recommendations?
Never seen caps on their SA's but IIRC someone mentioned new stock now comes with them. Will have some new stock next week so I'll check on this and report back.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: oz2cpu on January 26, 2022, 08:47:22 pm
NEW suggestion for SPD3303
the timer feature, add a feature to make it REPEAT the program :-)
as it is today, it just run the 5 steps, and then stop.
maybe i like it to run 1000 cycles, or forever ?
as it is today, the timer feature is so limited, very few will find any use for it,
with the ability to run x number of times to forever, the timer will be much more use full, to more people.
I hope this will be added to the wish list.

EDIT: found a bug in the timer function, after the 5 steps, the output goes OFF !!
even if the last step is power on, this is not what i expected
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: pope on February 18, 2022, 04:53:45 pm
I hope this is the correct thread to post a question about the sds1104x-e.

So, I just got one today together with a 1032x generator. Both units are brand new. I've read all these comments/ complains about the fans being loud on these units and sure enough I can hear the fan on the 1032x (although I was expecting to be louder TBH).

However, the 1104x-e is dead quiet. And by "dead quite" I literally mean dead quite.  ;D

I don't think the fan is spinning at all. Is this normal? Is the fan temperature controlled?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: blurpy on February 18, 2022, 05:06:21 pm
However, the 1104x-e is dead quiet. And by "dead quite" I literally mean dead quite.  ;D

I don't think the fan is spinning at all. Is this normal? Is the fan temperature controlled?
That can't be right. The fan in my SDS1204X-E competes with my original fat PS3 in making noise, and it has never been on any speed but 100%.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: JohanH on February 18, 2022, 05:14:26 pm
The fan must be dead or not connected. I modified the SDS1104x-E fan with rubber mounts and cut away the inner metal grill. I couldn't detect any change in sound level. Good comparison with the fat PS3, I've got it, too.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: pope on February 18, 2022, 05:19:44 pm
This is what I was afraid to hear. I love the fact that it's so quiet but probably it's not normal.

Maybe they changed something "recently"? My unit's calibration date is 2021-03-01 (according to the Certificate of Calibration).

Ironically, there's also a "QA PASS" mark on this certificate document.

EDIT: Software version: 6.1.35R2
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on February 18, 2022, 08:25:24 pm
This is what I was afraid to hear. I love the fact that it's so quiet but probably it's not normal.

Maybe they changed something "recently"? My unit's calibration date is 2021-03-01 (according to the Certificate of Calibration).

Ironically, there's also a "QA PASS" mark on this certificate document.

EDIT: Software version: 6.1.35R2
Never seen an X-E of any model without a working fan. Talk to your supplier.
SDS1104X-E fan noise is very similar to SDG1032X.
That SW version is old now and 35R8 is the current version however that has nothing to do with the fan not working. Again, talk to your supplier.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: pope on February 18, 2022, 09:27:37 pm
This is what I was afraid to hear. I love the fact that it's so quiet but probably it's not normal.

Maybe they changed something "recently"? My unit's calibration date is 2021-03-01 (according to the Certificate of Calibration).

Ironically, there's also a "QA PASS" mark on this certificate document.

EDIT: Software version: 6.1.35R2
Never seen an X-E of any model without a working fan. Talk to your supplier.
SDS1104X-E fan noise is very similar to SDG1032X.
That SW version is old now and 35R8 is the current version however that has nothing to do with the fan not working. Again, talk to your supplier.

Thanks tautech.

There must be something wrong then. The scope seems to function OK althought it does get a bit warm around the knobs/ keys area.

BTW, I did update the firmware but of course nothing changed.

Another issue I have is that when I try to update the OS to version 2, the scope won't recognise the USB drive while I'm restarting the unit. But probably I shouldn't worry about it if I'm gonna return the unit anyway...
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on February 18, 2022, 09:35:17 pm
V2 must be in the root of the USB stick for the OS to see it and automatically import and install it.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: pope on February 18, 2022, 09:44:17 pm
V2 must be in the root of the USB stick for the OS to see it and automatically import and install it.

It is. Just an empty USB stick (FAT32) including only the four files (w/o the .pdf) in the root directory. The same stick I used for the firmware update. Oh well...
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on February 18, 2022, 10:01:19 pm
V2 must be in the root of the USB stick for the OS to see it and automatically import and install it.

It is. Just an empty USB stick (FAT32) including only the four files (w/o the .pdf) in the root directory. The same stick I used for the firmware update. Oh well...
4k clusters ?
Maybe reformat it and/or try another.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: pope on February 18, 2022, 10:10:16 pm
V2 must be in the root of the USB stick for the OS to see it and automatically import and install it.

It is. Just an empty USB stick (FAT32) including only the four files (w/o the .pdf) in the root directory. The same stick I used for the firmware update. Oh well...
4k clusters ?
Maybe reformat it and/or try another.

I did a few times on a mac using disk utility. No luck but I will most likely return the unit so it doesn't make sense to waste time on this one now.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on February 18, 2022, 10:17:31 pm
V2 must be in the root of the USB stick for the OS to see it and automatically import and install it.

It is. Just an empty USB stick (FAT32) including only the four files (w/o the .pdf) in the root directory. The same stick I used for the firmware update. Oh well...
4k clusters ?
Maybe reformat it and/or try another.

I did a few times on a mac using disk utility. No luck but I will most likely return the unit so it doesn't make sense to waste time on this one now.
OK Mac might have issues IDK but consider a FW update is accessing a particular file whereas for this V2 OS upgrade the USB stick need have bootable access. This can also be an issue with some of our recovery packages as they all are designed to be auto loaded at boot. Had some reports about this with our SD card recovery packages needing to be on a SD card with boot access which is why a SD card configuration utility is supplied in SD card recovery packages.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Tjuurko on February 22, 2022, 04:04:49 am
Is it possible to remove the restriction in the program "EasyDMM - 1.01.02.01.03 (Release Date 05.27.17 )" on the amount of information displayed in the "Control" window?
Now the data (Result) is truncated at 1024 characters, and the usual query "TEMP:MDEF:THER:TRAN:POIN? BITS90" requires 4118 characters.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on August 20, 2022, 03:28:45 am
Reminder to all with Siglent products to check their firmware is up to date with latest version so to take advantage of any new features and/or capability that may have been added to your products:
https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: McBryce on August 20, 2022, 10:10:46 am
Reminder to all with Siglent products to check their firmware is up to date with latest version so to take advantage of any new features and/or capability that may have been added to your products:
https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/

Nope, not only is there not new firmware to fix the multiple bugs still present in my relatively new SHS806 Scope, but now it's not even listed under handheld scopes. If that's the level of support that one can expect from Siglent I won't be buying further devices from them.

McBryce.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: hpw on August 20, 2022, 10:27:00 am
Reminder to all with Siglent products to check their firmware is up to date with latest version so to take advantage of any new features and/or capability that may have been added to your products:
https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/

Nope, not only is there not new firmware to fix the multiple bugs still present in my relatively new SHS806 Scope, but now it's not even listed under handheld scopes. If that's the level of support that one can expect from Siglent I won't be buying further devices from them.

McBryce.

You get the beef point, as you see almost ALL SIGLENT gears did not get any FW update SINCE YEARS. Talking to Siglent support gets as water down the toilette and than it's done forever.

For an users ... as looks like most gear no any longer supported  :palm: :palm: :palm: :palm: :palm:

Hp
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: oz2cpu on August 31, 2022, 08:27:36 pm
brand new SPD3303X
BUG found
and yes it is running latest fw:
SPD3303X Firmware - 1.01.01.02.07R2 (Release Date 02.05.21 )

outputs will not turn on, random delays, red led at each output,
setpoints copied to read out display, both voltage and current sets, while 0V 0A is at the connectors.

Power recycled, now it works, want to see the video ?
go here : https://youtu.be/U1h9nqPttLw
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: RikV on September 18, 2022, 09:18:09 am
I own a SDM3065X since a couple of months.
It look to me that I cannot save the screen time-out to the startup settings?
Is there a way to see the "uptime"-hours? Number of power-ons seems not meaningfull.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tonycstech on October 04, 2022, 07:49:38 am
@ "Taking a screenshot with "SDS 1202X-E" using the blue Print button that saves the file to USB pen drive."

Is it a known issue that the newest FW 1.3.26 makes the scope to freeze completely and therefore useless, when trying to save an image more than once?
No it is not a known issue.  :-//
Yes it is a known issue.
At times scope would freeze every time i try unless i boot with USB removed. Then it will work every time but not forever. It will take some time before it starts acting up again.
Just today (again when i needed it the most) it started acting up.
Tried different USB drive, same problem. But it went away as soon as i booted WITHOUT USB drive inserted.
Something in the circuit that is not working correctly. I think if i let it sit for few hrs, it will come back.
I cannot hope this will go away because i know for a fact it will come back the worst moment possible.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on October 04, 2022, 08:34:49 am
@ "Taking a screenshot with "SDS 1202X-E" using the blue Print button that saves the file to USB pen drive."

Is it a known issue that the newest FW 1.3.26 makes the scope to freeze completely and therefore useless, when trying to save an image more than once?
No it is not a known issue.  :-//
Yes it is a known issue.
At times scope would freeze every time i try unless i boot with USB removed. Then it will work every time but not forever. It will take some time before it starts acting up again.
Just today (again when i needed it the most) it started acting up.
Tried different USB drive, same problem. But it went away as soon as i booted WITHOUT USB drive inserted.
Something in the circuit that is not working correctly. I think if i let it sit for few hrs, it will come back.
I cannot hope this will go away because i know for a fact it will come back the worst moment possible.
Thanks, some more info please.

Firmware version ?
USB stick properties ? Stick size and format type and cluster size.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: BillyO on October 04, 2022, 01:01:49 pm
My request to Siglent for help with issues on my SDS1104X-E have landed on deaf ears.  No response whatsoever.

Is this par for the course?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tonycstech on October 04, 2022, 06:51:40 pm
Thanks, some more info please.
Firmware version ?
USB stick properties ? Stick size and format type and cluster size.

Firmware is the latest they have, problem persisted regardless of firmware so its irrelevant.
USB drive does not matter, it will behave the same way regardless of the drive or how its formated.

I now know exactly how it works:
#1 Format USB drive
#2 Boot scope with USB inserted.
#3 press PRINT.
If scope prints no problems, turn off the scope, unplug from the main and try to turn it on again by holding the power button for 2-5 seconds. Repeat couple of times.
This will drain internal capacitors
Now repeat steps 1-2-3
As soon as i hit print, scope will freeze. All buttons are frozen while display is still responding to probe.

If i boot scope and insert USB drive after scope has booted, PRINT will work no problem.

If i sent it to siglent, they may not be able to reproduce the problem and call it good.
Meanwhile i end up without a scope for a month.
Plus they will not apply new warranty sticker and who know what else.
Last time i sent them multimeter, they lost my probes and did not replace warranty sticker so its tempered with at this point.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on October 04, 2022, 07:16:29 pm
Quote from: tautech
Thanks, some more info please.
Firmware version ?
USB stick properties ? Stick size and format type and cluster size.

USB drive does not matter, it will behave the same way regardless of the drive or how its formated.
Thank you but it could. It must be FAT32 with preferably 4k clusters, 8GB is the max size known to work in all Siglent devices and some models don't like the cheapest USB stick.

I have reported this issue before and can again but not without the best and fullest info for engineers to reliably replicate it.
As it has not been properly addressed we cannot know if the problem is local (USB stick) or with the scope.


Currently I'm trying to convince Siglent to supply a USB stick with all instruments with manuals and SW applicable to that instrument like they do with the supplied CD in many parts of the world but not all I believe.

Then we would have a known to work uniform USB stick for users to also install firmware with and capture files to.
You might be amazed how few update their instruments firmware.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tonycstech on October 04, 2022, 07:28:34 pm
I confirmed.
Formatting to FAT32 with 4096bits cluster size makes the problem go away.
It is a scope issue, firmware to be specific, unable to handle different drives. Typical Chinese device problem.
I've seen this on security NVR systems. USB device wont work when booted with it plugged in, but will work if you unplug and plug it back in.


Also something is wrong with this forum.
When i click POST, it takes me somewhere else other then to a place where i just posted my reply.
It makes me confused and i go back to post again and again but it will not post anymore.
This is very strange.
Every forum in the world directs you to where you just posted.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on October 04, 2022, 07:51:12 pm
I confirmed.
Formatting to FAT32 with 4096bits cluster size makes the problem go away.
It is a scope issue, firmware to be specific, unable to handle different drives. Typical Chinese device problem.
I've seen this on security NVR systems. USB device wont work when booted with it plugged in, but will work if you unplug and plug it back in.
Thank you.  :-+


Quote
Also something is wrong with this forum.
When i click POST, it takes me somewhere else other then to a place where i just posted my reply.
It makes me confused and i go back to post again and again but it will not post anymore.
This is very strange.
Every forum in the world directs you to where you just posted.
This is easy fixed with a Profile setting.
Modify Profile>Look and Layout>Return to topics after posting by default<select.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Hexley on October 09, 2022, 06:21:31 pm
@tautech -
Hey Rob, any insight into when the factory might do another firmware release for the SDG1000X? There are a couple of outstanding issues that it would be nice to get resolved:
Thanks,
Hexley

1 Setup: the SDG1000X was locked to a GPSDO at 10 MHz. The same reference signal was fed to the counter, an HP 53131A, to ensure a common timebase. The SDG1000X was set to produce exactly 10 MHz and connected to the input of the counter which then read 9.999 999 827 MHz. As a cross check, the same setup was applied to a different AWG (KS33521B) and the counter read 10.000 000 000, as expected.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Back2Volts on October 14, 2022, 01:22:57 pm
I have a Siglent SPD3303-X-E.  I am wondering if I can hookup the negative of the fixed output, CH3, to the green/ground of the CH1/CH2, to have a three voltage power supply.  It seems like it would be an interesting feature, which I would like to make use of, but from the manual, I have not been able to determine if it is possible or not. 

Is this possible?

Edit:   I have got to the conclusion that it has to be possible because Siglent NA describe it as "3 independently controlled and isolated outputs".   So it should work without problems.

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: profanum429 on October 16, 2022, 02:58:58 am
I figured I'd ask here; I'm looking at the Siglent VNA cal kits and if I'm reading the datasheet right they are pretty much equivalent to the Agilent kits called out in there. I'm looking at the F603FE as a good economy kit so I was wondering if it came with known coefficients or touchstone files? I'm assuming it's supposed to be a copy of the 85033E kit? Just looking for some confirmation before I purchase since if I'd like to use in on more than just the SVA and I'd need to setup the kit elsewhere.

I suppose I could measure them all on a work VNA with a much better cal-kit and setup than my home SVA and use those Touchstone files as my data based standards, but I figured I'd see if they are characterized beforehand.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on October 16, 2022, 03:23:25 am
AFAIK Siglent Cal kits are made by Rosenberger as many of their HF coax cables are.
They are not supplied with any characterization data.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: profanum429 on October 16, 2022, 07:14:50 pm
AFAIK Siglent Cal kits are made by Rosenberger as many of their HF coax cables are.
They are not supplied with any characterization data.

Dang, that’s what I figured. Thanks! By any chance do you know if it’d be possible to pull the kit data off of the SVA? I’ve seen a vnacalkit directory on the machine but it seems to not have everything in it to cover all the kits on the machine and the data files that are there only go up to 1.5GHz so I feel like I’m not looking at the correct things.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on October 16, 2022, 07:35:06 pm
AFAIK Siglent Cal kits are made by Rosenberger as many of their HF coax cables are.
They are not supplied with any characterization data.

Dang, that’s what I figured. Thanks! By any chance do you know if it’d be possible to pull the kit data off of the SVA? I’ve seen a vnacalkit directory on the machine but it seems to not have everything in it to cover all the kits on the machine and the data files that are there only go up to 1.5GHz so I feel like I’m not looking at the correct things.
IIRC you can but not in STP files like we've asked for. Each and every Cal can be saved internally to be recalled when needed for say a common cable/adapter setup you might use. They can all be named as you like.

If you do a Cal on the full sweep of the instrument that's what will be saved and a narrower sweep will only save that frequency settings. SVA have increased the data/sweep points from a previous max of 751 to 10001 although default is still just 200. We only change the points for speed vs accuracy depending on what we need.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: profanum429 on October 22, 2022, 02:54:11 am
AFAIK Siglent Cal kits are made by Rosenberger as many of their HF coax cables are.
They are not supplied with any characterization data.

Dang, that’s what I figured. Thanks! By any chance do you know if it’d be possible to pull the kit data off of the SVA? I’ve seen a vnacalkit directory on the machine but it seems to not have everything in it to cover all the kits on the machine and the data files that are there only go up to 1.5GHz so I feel like I’m not looking at the correct things.
IIRC you can but not in STP files like we've asked for. Each and every Cal can be saved internally to be recalled when needed for say a common cable/adapter setup you might use. They can all be named as you like.

If you do a Cal on the full sweep of the instrument that's what will be saved and a narrower sweep will only save that frequency settings. SVA have increased the data/sweep points from a previous max of 751 to 10001 although default is still just 200. We only change the points for speed vs accuracy depending on what we need.

To follow this up, I'm apparently blind.

https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2021/04/Mechanical-Calibration-Kit-Datasheet-v1.4.pdf

has the coefficients for the Siglent kits (I swear I didn't see the last few pages last time I looked at it); the F603 kits seem to match the 85033E kits so I'm guessing manufactured to those tolerances. I ordered a F603FE kit yesterday and will have it hopefully early next week and I'll be measuring it on my TTR506A with a Maury cal kit to get some (hopefully) decent touchstone files to go along with it.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: oz2cpu on November 05, 2022, 09:52:08 am
is the SPD3303X designed specially poor ? when it comes to ESD or other unwanted unlucky hight voltage events
between the DC - AC - Chassis ??

yesterday i killed BOTH my SPD3303X due to an arc over event in the lab to mains.
and i mean it took me 9hrs tracking and replacing parts in them, that much was found dead so far,
List : TL072 shorted, 7815 shorted, Ethernet ic shorted, IRFP150 shorted, IC inside fan shorted,
4k7 in gate drive, and a 100nF cap in gatedrive shorted,
small signal pnp for gatedrive shorted, 6.3A fuses blown,

last thing to solve : ch3 output not going on, complex logic trying to trace the idea behind all the transistors, diodes and zeners involved in this,
one reason for it to be very complex is the LED control, it is a 2 pin led, 2 color, red green,
the green do go on when i push output enable, so signal from optocoupler is there, however no gate drive, to power board,
and the power board is confirmed working (the other unit works now 100%, so i got one to compare with)
any one with a schematic snip of the ch3 logic ?
picture attached, i need to know the part types of the four SOT23 devices,
otherwise i need to remove them one by one from my working unit to prove their function,
and then add what ever i feel fit the feature
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on November 05, 2022, 05:30:02 pm
i need to know the part types of the four SOT23 devices,
Silkscreen Pt#'s please.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: 2N3055 on November 05, 2022, 06:39:08 pm
is the SPD3303X designed specially poor ? when it comes to ESD or other unwanted unlucky hight voltage events
between the DC - AC - Chassis ??

yesterday i killed BOTH my SPD3303X due to an arc over event in the lab to mains.
and i mean it took me 9hrs tracking and replacing parts in them, that much was found dead so far,
List : TL072 shorted, 7815 shorted, Ethernet ic shorted, IRFP150 shorted, IC inside fan shorted,
4k7 in gate drive, and a 100nF cap in gatedrive shorted,
small signal pnp for gatedrive shorted, 6.3A fuses blown,

last thing to solve : ch3 output not going on, complex logic trying to trace the idea behind all the transistors, diodes and zeners involved in this,
one reason for it to be very complex is the LED control, it is a 2 pin led, 2 color, red green,
the green do go on when i push output enable, so signal from optocoupler is there, however no gate drive, to power board,
and the power board is confirmed working (the other unit works now 100%, so i got one to compare with)
any one with a schematic snip of the ch3 logic ?
picture attached, i need to know the part types of the four SOT23 devices,
otherwise i need to remove them one by one from my working unit to prove their function,
and then add what ever i feel fit the feature

Tom,

I'm curious about that discharge.. I'm not sure I understand what the actual discharge current path was , and what was the energy.. What happened?

Best
Sinisa
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: oz2cpu on November 06, 2022, 02:20:37 pm
>Silkscreen Pt#'s please.
PCB is called SDY8.007.038H
SPD3303_150700
QC1 = unknown sot23, marking 2A and a 6 or 9 laying down
QC2 = QC3 = QC5 = QC6 = unknown sot23, marking 1AM>
cant find QC4 so that number maybe is not in use
UC5 = TL431 this one works
UC3 = TL072 ok changed that one
UC4 = TL072 did not change it yet
DC3,DC4,DC6 unknown diode
ZD702 unknown zener
ZD703 unknown zener

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: oz2cpu on November 06, 2022, 02:49:42 pm
>I'm curious about that discharge..

me too

>I'm not sure I understand what the actual discharge current path was ,

lets try investigate this

>and what was the energy.. What happened?

lets try to understand via this picture, geiger counter is powered from mains, but its metal case is not earth
power supply is correctly mains powered with 3 pin earth cable
the xray tube is not correctly isolated for the voltage, at least not then it is close to metal
so an arc over happened here.
at least that is my first guess..

the 2nd guess is there is something wrong inside the DC/DC converter, so an arc over inside that, could deliver 20kV back into its 9V dc input.

since the ethernet chip inside the powersuppæly was blown too,
and both ch1 and ch2 and ch3 power mosfets and all that was blown,
it is very likely the path was arround mains

rise times of arc is VERY fast

also i find no VDR or TVS or the likes in mains, or any DC outputs,
that means : what if "normal" ESD it discharged into any DC ports ?
will the same ? or a bit smaller damage happen ?
my bench is ESD safe, and i normally dont have ESD problems

I am aware that if the DC/DC contain any size of capacitor the charged 20kV could deliver a few kA current on its way
NO powersupply in the world would be able to survive that. it is CLEARLY my own user fault
and i am not here to blame Siglent.

But i would have been more happy if i have seen at least a little bit of over voltage / ESD / Surge / Burst protection parts
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on November 07, 2022, 07:55:17 pm
>Silkscreen Pt#'s please.
PCB is called SDY8.007.038H
SPD3303_150700
QC1 = unknown sot23, marking 2A and a 6 or 9 laying down
QC2 = QC3 = QC5 = QC6 = unknown sot23, marking 1AM>
cant find QC4 so that number maybe is not in use
UC5 = TL431 this one works
UC3 = TL072 ok changed that one
UC4 = TL072 did not change it yet
DC3,DC4,DC6 unknown diode
ZD702 unknown zener
ZD703 unknown zener
Further to your PM:
From PCB SDY8.007.038J SPD3303_200800 I have here:
QC1 2A with wide U or C on its side.
QC2 1AM with Y on its side
AFAIKT all MELF diodes will be something quite ordinary 4148 or similar.
MELF zeners at this time unknown.

I have cost request for this PCB to Siglent.
I will work with them for zener and MELF diode identification and SOT23 transistor confirmation.
Gimme another day or 2.....
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: oz2cpu on November 07, 2022, 08:04:21 pm
thanks a lot,
i was hoping for a part number :-)
but if we are going after the part marking, please see this closeup
anyone with a good idea ?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on November 09, 2022, 07:20:52 pm
thanks a lot,
i was hoping for a part number :-)
Tech support is hunting them out for us.

Complete digital control PCB (calibrated) will retail $150-200  :(
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: oz2cpu on November 09, 2022, 08:12:41 pm
>Complete digital control PCB (calibrated) will retail $150-200

nice i remember that, if this happen again :-)
lucky me the CPU survived (impossible to replace) and most of the hard to replace parts. all the ADC and DAC and such.

all i need now is the info on the sot-23 and zener voltages, as requested, then i can get ch3 up and running again real fast and easy.
the fun thing is, i never used ch3 on any of my psu's
but now i am super keen to get it working.. just because i like it to be tip-top
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on November 09, 2022, 08:23:32 pm
The transistors I'm sure we can identify, the MELF diodes I'm sure will be plain Jane 4148 and the 2 Zener MELF if necessary I can remove and measure them if necessary from a warranty claim PCB I have here.

However if Siglent provide us with this info that's the preferred outcome as it will be 100% correct.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: oz2cpu on November 09, 2022, 08:45:46 pm
then i rather wait for their correct type info..

if thy fail to reply, i be happy to get the npn or pnp or fet, type of info,
from an allready dead unit, rather than poking smd parts out from my working unit.
my best guess will be  : most of them are simply low voltage npn,
and the one that is someting else, might be a pnp,
i guess the change for that to be correct is 95 % :-)

Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on November 09, 2022, 08:48:42 pm
Good quality replies can be received here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/what_s-this-please-(component-advice)/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/what_s-this-please-(component-advice)/)

Ask there about:
QC1 2A with wide U or C on its side.
QC2 1AM with Y on its side
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: trmntr on December 10, 2022, 06:07:31 am
My request to Siglent for help with issues on my SDS1104X-E have landed on deaf ears.  No response whatsoever.
Remind me, please, what is your problem with the scope?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: BillyO on December 10, 2022, 01:57:48 pm
My request to Siglent for help with issues on my SDS1104X-E have landed on deaf ears.  No response whatsoever.
Remind me, please, what is your problem with the scope?
Why?

Anyway, it was looked after.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Hexley on December 10, 2022, 05:24:50 pm
@tautech -
Hey Rob, any insight into when the factory might do another firmware release for the SDG1000X? There are a couple of outstanding issues that it would be nice to get resolved:
  • Unexpected behavior when locked to an external reference. I just re-checked my unit and when set to 10 MHz it runs 173 mHz low when locked1. This is for FW 1.01.01.33R1B6, btw.
  • Unexpected behavior of the sweep mode (interaction with non-sweep settings). See https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/175/, (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/175/,) post #199 for details and how to replicate.
Thanks,
Hexley

1 Setup: the SDG1000X was locked to a GPSDO at 10 MHz. The same reference signal was fed to the counter, an HP 53131A, to ensure a common timebase. The SDG1000X was set to produce exactly 10 MHz and connected to the input of the counter which then read 9.999 999 827 MHz. As a cross check, the same setup was applied to a different AWG (KS33521B) and the counter read 10.000 000 000, as expected.
Hey Rob -
I see that the 2000X firmware was just updated. Do your sources at the factory have any visibility into when the 1000X firmware will be updated?
Thanks,
Hexley
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 10, 2022, 07:35:59 pm
@tautech -
Hey Rob, any insight into when the factory might do another firmware release for the SDG1000X? There are a couple of outstanding issues that it would be nice to get resolved:
  • Unexpected behavior when locked to an external reference. I just re-checked my unit and when set to 10 MHz it runs 173 mHz low when locked1. This is for FW 1.01.01.33R1B6, btw.
  • Unexpected behavior of the sweep mode (interaction with non-sweep settings). See https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/175/, (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/175/,) post #199 for details and how to replicate.
Thanks,
Hexley

1 Setup: the SDG1000X was locked to a GPSDO at 10 MHz. The same reference signal was fed to the counter, an HP 53131A, to ensure a common timebase. The SDG1000X was set to produce exactly 10 MHz and connected to the input of the counter which then read 9.999 999 827 MHz. As a cross check, the same setup was applied to a different AWG (KS33521B) and the counter read 10.000 000 000, as expected.
Hey Rob -
I see that the 2000X firmware was just updated. Do your sources at the factory have any visibility into when the 1000X firmware will be updated?
Thanks,
Hexley
It seems this new SDG2kX FW is only for latest HW but as yet not sure and don't have 2kX stock to check HW versions until maybe next week.
From 2kX release notes:
1. Compatible with Rev.F hardware; if the hardware version is “05-xx-xx-xx-xx”, it will not support to roll back previous firmware version

Which I interpret as this FW is only compatible with Rev F/05 HW.

I'll pop Tech support mail to check what the full story is.

SDG1kX might be going through HW changes too, IDK but some IC availability has had slightly different HW used in some models it seems if the FW release notes for some products are anything to go by.  :-//
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on December 21, 2022, 10:28:22 pm
A big thank you to you all from Siglent for your support and wishing you great holidays and a magnificent 2023.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=1669612)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on January 10, 2023, 10:52:51 pm
Parking this here after Martin72 found it.
https://www.siglenteu.com/operating-tip/siglent-serial-number-format/?pdf=13383 (https://www.siglenteu.com/operating-tip/siglent-serial-number-format/?pdf=13383)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Vit G on February 26, 2023, 07:54:22 am
Hi!
 I found that my SDG2042X (HW 05-00-00-46-00) has output phase mismatch with identical settings of the two outputs at about 1 degree per 10 MHz (abt. 250 pS delay between channels). Pressing the EqPhase button does not solve the problem. Is it possible to fix this?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on February 26, 2023, 09:56:10 am
Hi!
 I found that my SDG2042X (HW 05-00-00-46-00) has output phase mismatch with identical settings of the two outputs at about 1 degree per 10 MHz (abt. 250 pS delay between channels). Pressing the EqPhase button does not solve the problem. Is it possible to fix this?
Yes.
Utility/Ch Copy Coupling/Ch Copy Coupling and make adjustments from within the menu to align edges perfectly.

Last time I tried minor adjustments were needed for changes in frequency however ps accuracy was possible with care.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Vit G on February 26, 2023, 10:10:23 am
 But.. then I see this phase change in the main settings window. What's the point of doing it then?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Vit G on March 01, 2023, 10:26:55 am
  OK. I temporarily solved the problem by adding a delay line. Now the EqPhase button does what it's supposed to do. I see a lack of attention to detail in the design of the PCB frontend. The distance between the output relays and the connectors is clearly different. And most likely this error accumulates from different places in the PCB. I hope this will be compensated in the new firmware.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on April 30, 2023, 11:16:59 am
New firmware for the 2 channel SDS1202X-E model.

Version: V1.3.27
6 MB
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Oscilloscope/SDS1202X-E_V1.3.27_EN.zip

Release notes
1. Fixed the bug: SCPI sets trigger level error when probe is 10X
2. Fixed the bug: SCPI(C4-C1:MEAD? FRR) is error
3. Optimized accessing USB drive so that when a USB drive is moved to a computer, Windows will not prompt a restoration of the USB drive.
4. Fixed the bug: CSV file does not consider probe
5. Fixed the bug of UART decoder with some special settings
6. Fixed the bug: PNSU SCPI is error by socket to transfer binary file
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: phastmike on May 14, 2023, 07:39:29 pm
Hi everyone,

Just registered to the forum.

My Siglent SDS1104X-E suddenly froze when I've pressed the Auto Setup. After some time in frozen state I did a power cycle and the scope was not able to boot properly. The key lights did light and the logo appeared but the boot seems to have stalled. I've tried the Hardware Reset procedure by using the Math key pulsing while booting to no avail. The unit seems to be trying to boot but it's doing it very slowly, and by slowly I mean, really slowly. I think I can identify the boot procedure but there are many minutes between boot led sequence.

Waited for a full day (turned off) and then when turned on, the unit booted normally but after some minutes, it froze again and back to square one.

I'm afraid that trying a firmware update on this situation is rather dangerous.

Scope is with FW: 6.1.35R2, Uboot-OS: 8.1 FPGA: 2019-11-15 HW: 01-05

Never updated, no hacking... nothing... only 50 startup cycles.

From what I've read here in the forum, there seems to be a USB recovery package ??

Help, anyone?

Thank you,
BR
 
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on May 14, 2023, 09:10:57 pm
Hi everyone,

Just registered to the forum.

My Siglent SDS1104X-E suddenly froze when I've pressed the Auto Setup. After some time in frozen state I did a power cycle and the scope was not able to boot properly. The key lights did light and the logo appeared but the boot seems to have stalled. I've tried the Hardware Reset procedure by using the Math key pulsing while booting to no avail. The unit seems to be trying to boot but it's doing it very slowly, and by slowly I mean, really slowly. I think I can identify the boot procedure but there are many minutes between boot led sequence.

Waited for a full day (turned off) and then when turned on, the unit booted normally but after some minutes, it froze again and back to square one.

I'm afraid that trying a firmware update on this situation is rather dangerous.

Scope is with FW: 6.1.35R2, Uboot-OS: 8.1 FPGA: 2019-11-15 HW: 01-05

Never updated, no hacking... nothing... only 50 startup cycles.

From what I've read here in the forum, there seems to be a USB recovery package ??

Help, anyone?

Thank you,
BR
Welcome to EEVblog.

Check your messages.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on May 22, 2023, 09:25:52 pm
Reminder....
Promo until the end of Oct on 2000 series DSO's.
https://siglentna.com/news-article/2000-series-oscilloscope-power-up-promotion/

SDS2000X Plus models = free BW upgrade = $ 1200 value
SDS2000X HD models = free Power Analysis option = $ 380 value
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on September 28, 2023, 08:29:13 am
New promotions from Oct 1 -31 Dec 2023

Analysis Option bundle with new purchases of SDS2000X Plus, SDS 2000X HD, SDS5000X and SDS6000A models.
*Promotion only on models listed.
*No other discounts or promotions apply.
*This promotion is only available in Asia, Africa and Latin America Area. 

SDS2000X PLUS   SDS2XP-BND   SPL2016, SDS2000XP-16LA, SDS2000XP-FG,
SDS2000XP-FlexRay/1553B/CANFD/I2S/SENT/Manch   $259    Saving $2112

SDS2000X HD   SDS2XHD-BND   SPL2016, SDS2000HD-16LA, SDS2000HD-FG, SDS2000HD-I2S/1553B/FlexRay/CANFD/SENT/Manch   $259    Saving $2230

SDS5000X   SDS5X-LA-BND   SPL2016, SAG1021I, SDS-5000X-16LA, SDS-5000X-FG   $371    Saving $875
SDS6000A   SDS6A-LA-BND   SPL2016, SAG1021I, SDS6000PRO-16LA, SDS6000PRO-FG   $371    Saving  $1027
https://int.siglent.com/info/detail-74.html

SSA3000X-R promotion
Purchase a new SSA3000X-R Analyzer: SSA3032X-R, SSA3050X-R, or SSA3075X-R
Get a free SSA3000XR-RT40 upgrade license (a $1339  value!)

SSA5000A promotion
Purchase a new SSA5000A Analyzer: SSA5083A or SSA5085A
Get free SSA5000-RTA1 and SSA5000-B40 upgrade licenses (a $6360  value!)
https://int.siglent.com/info/detail-72.html

EMI pre-compliance promotion.
Purchase a new SSA3000X, SSA3000X Plus, SSA3000X-R, SVA1000X, SSA5000A series Spectrum analyzers and SRF5030T near-field probe kit* to receive a free EMI option activation license!
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on November 08, 2023, 06:50:55 am
Further promos with reduced pricing for SDS1000X-E models plus free option licensing for FG and MSO until June 30 2024.
https://int.siglent.com/info/detail-76.html (https://int.siglent.com/info/detail-76.html)
https://siglentna.com/news-article/reduced-price-and-free-analysis-options-with-new-1000x-e-series-oscilloscope/ (https://siglentna.com/news-article/reduced-price-and-free-analysis-options-with-new-1000x-e-series-oscilloscope/)
https://www.siglenteu.com/news-article/reduced-price-and-free-analysis-options-with-new-1000x-e-series-oscilloscope/ (https://www.siglenteu.com/news-article/reduced-price-and-free-analysis-options-with-new-1000x-e-series-oscilloscope/)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: rf-loop on December 21, 2023, 07:40:48 pm
  Many thanks to all of you from Siglent for your support.
  Merry Christmas!
  Happy and successful new year 2024


   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/?action=dlattach;attach=1959147;image)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Martin72 on December 21, 2023, 07:58:53 pm
I would love to have THAT under the tree too... ;)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on January 31, 2024, 08:44:07 am
New PC SW utilities.

SigScopeLab Signal Analysis Software
https://siglentna.com/pc-software/sigscopelab-signal-analysis-software/
SigIQPro Signal Generation Software
https://siglentna.com/pc-software/sigiqpro-signal-generation-software/

Both available for download here:
https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/pc-software/#sigscopelab
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: hpw on January 31, 2024, 09:31:52 am
New PC SW utilities.

SigScopeLab Signal Analysis Software
https://siglentna.com/pc-software/sigscopelab-signal-analysis-software/
SigIQPro Signal Generation Software
https://siglentna.com/pc-software/sigiqpro-signal-generation-software/

Both available for download here:
https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/pc-software/#sigscopelab

Bingo,

the SigScopeLab Signal Analysis Software is FREE and supports:

SDS7000A
SDS5000X
SDS6000A
SDS2000X Plus
SDS6000L
SDS3000X HD
SDS2000X HD
SDS1000X HD
SDS800X HD

while to save pictures of a measurement is one thing (as for documentation), BUT, later on, to analyze the captured data again with any upcoming tools any different & better  8).

SigIQPro Signal Generation Software price is a RIP off. Just my 2 cents!

Hp
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: ebastler on January 31, 2024, 09:57:19 am
The fact that I don't understand how the SigIQPro Signal Generation Software is meant to be used probably means that it is not for me.  ;)
Nevertheless, in the interest of life-long learning:

What are those OFDM, Bluetooth and IoT signals which SigIQPro can generate? Actual radio signals? Control signals for specific radio chips (which ones)? And what kind of hardware would I use to "play back" those signals, assuming that playing them back is what they are meant for?

Thanks for educating me or pointing me in the right direction!
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: sbeube02 on February 05, 2024, 09:17:30 pm
Anyone familiar with troubleshooting a Lecroy/Siglent
scope?
I have this Waveace 224 with Siglent SAT7.820.682F main board.
The oscilloscope seems to boot, I can hear some relays clicking, face LEDs goes on and off and display stay blank.
Buttons are not responding.
I have checked all rails coming from power supply, everything is fine.
Checked the regulators on main board as per the Siglent SDS1000CFL user manual, all voltage are good.
I also have the 25 MHz main clock OK.
I checked with another scope the activity on the display ribbon cable, it seems to have some activity at 10 kHz and 8 MHz.
There is also activity on the button board ribbon. When I press a button I can see the pattern on my other scope.
Don't know where to look then?

(https://i.imgur.com/BqaaLYN.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/EVfNl0u.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/gSHKKVF.jpeg)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: points2 on February 15, 2024, 09:55:28 pm
hi,
I just realized we have a remote software for DSO => https://www.siglenteu.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/pc-software/#sigscopelab (https://www.siglenteu.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/pc-software/#sigscopelab)

I installed => SigScopeLab_V0.4.9.2
& connected it to a SDS2504Xplus

well... I did smth wrong or this V0.4.9.2 performs like a V0.0.0.1 ?

in the user manual, at the beginning there is an explanation how to extend the virtual memory thru Windows settings... as it is in chinese, I'm out.
If I'm a dummy because if I use it the right way this soft is amazing => anyone feel free to explain :-)

So far, I'm back to VNCviewer and the laggy copy/paste of the DSO screen...   :)

(a Picoscope is its way for delivery tomorrow morning... to "help" the 2504x+ in hard stuff  :palm: I hope that the soft will work fine because a Pico with a screen is not a Pico  ;D )
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: marco58 on February 28, 2024, 10:03:45 pm
SDS1000X-E SCPI commands problem

EDIT: as Veteran68 kindly suggests (see next post) I'll try official support channels and if they answer I'll report on forum.

Hi all, hi Tech Support
I am quite happy of my SDS 1104X-E (purchased 2022), very good value for money.
Recently I begin to use SCPI command (via pyVISA and Ethernet) and I’ve found some small problem or error in documentation…

problem #1 undocumented standard SCPI commands
Some important (IMHO) standard commands (present in previous version of Programming Guide) are not documented in last version, but they seems operational (not full tested, but something is surely working) and I’d like to know if these commands can be considered officially supported or not.
*ESR?
*STB?
*CLS

Problem #2 COMM_HEADER | CHDR
(long form does not work, but workaround is simple...)
Code: [Select]
>>> DSO.write("CHDR OFF")
short form works, but with OFF parameter does not always work as expected: “header is omitted from the response and units in numbers are suppressed”.
With PAVA? FREQ (don’t know if also other commands are affected) header is not entirely omitted (word FREQ is still present):

Code: [Select]
>>> DSO.query("C1:PAVA? FREQ")
'FREQ,5.001000E+01'

this makes more difficult to extract value as a number and in a different way than other commands, where header is entirely suppressed:

Code: [Select]
>>> DSO.query("CYMT?")
'5.00E+01'

Useful info:
my DSO details:
Instrument Model    SDS1104X-E
LXI Extended Functions    Null
LXI Version    1.5 LXI Core 2017
Software Version    8.3.6.1.37R9


documentation info (my last downloaded version):
SDS 1000 – 2000 Programming Guide
PG01-E02D

thanks
marco
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Veteran68 on February 29, 2024, 12:44:14 am
SDS1000X-E SCPI commands problem

Hi all, hi Tech Support

Don't expect to get official Siglent tech support here. This Siglent account last posted May 2021 and last logged in October 2022. If you need their support you'll have to go through their official support channels.

Certainly other Siglent users here in the forums might be able to help with technical questions, but you're asking questions that only Siglent could answer.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: figurativelythedevil on March 06, 2024, 11:14:54 pm
I'm having an issue with my SDM3065X-SC, not sur if anyone's run into this before. Did a bit of looking and couldn't find an obvious answer.

I have my meter connected to PC via USB, and I'm trying to use EasyDMM to set up a scan, I have 5 thermocouples and 2 voltages I want to monitor. I can set up all the scan parameters with no issue, but when I connect to the meter to push the scan config and actually scan, the meter just locks up and I get an error in EasyDMM saying Failed to Query. Setting up the scan directly on the meter works fine and it scans no problem.

Does anyone know what's going on? I have the latest firmware & software revs.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 06, 2024, 11:35:57 pm
I'm having an issue with my SDM3065X-SC, not sur if anyone's run into this before. Did a bit of looking and couldn't find an obvious answer.

I have my meter connected to PC via USB, and I'm trying to use EasyDMM to set up a scan, I have 5 thermocouples and 2 voltages I want to monitor. I can set up all the scan parameters with no issue, but when I connect to the meter to push the scan config and actually scan, the meter just locks up and I get an error in EasyDMM saying Failed to Query. Setting up the scan directly on the meter works fine and it scans no problem.

Does anyone know what's going on? I have the latest firmware & software revs.
Check the EasyDMM App notes here:
https://siglentna.com/operating-tips/sdm3065x-series/page/2/
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: figurativelythedevil on March 07, 2024, 04:28:19 pm
I'm having an issue with my SDM3065X-SC, not sur if anyone's run into this before. Did a bit of looking and couldn't find an obvious answer.

I have my meter connected to PC via USB, and I'm trying to use EasyDMM to set up a scan, I have 5 thermocouples and 2 voltages I want to monitor. I can set up all the scan parameters with no issue, but when I connect to the meter to push the scan config and actually scan, the meter just locks up and I get an error in EasyDMM saying Failed to Query. Setting up the scan directly on the meter works fine and it scans no problem.

Does anyone know what's going on? I have the latest firmware & software revs.
Check the EasyDMM App notes here:
https://siglentna.com/operating-tips/sdm3065x-series/page/2/

I looked through these; I didn't find anything regarding the issue I'm having. The one app note regarding first use of EasyDMM and setting up a scan is how I've already done it.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 07, 2024, 10:45:46 pm
I'm having an issue with my SDM3065X-SC, not sur if anyone's run into this before. Did a bit of looking and couldn't find an obvious answer.

I have my meter connected to PC via USB, and I'm trying to use EasyDMM to set up a scan, I have 5 thermocouples and 2 voltages I want to monitor. I can set up all the scan parameters with no issue, but when I connect to the meter to push the scan config and actually scan, the meter just locks up and I get an error in EasyDMM saying Failed to Query. Setting up the scan directly on the meter works fine and it scans no problem.

Does anyone know what's going on? I have the latest firmware & software revs.
Check the EasyDMM App notes here:
https://siglentna.com/operating-tips/sdm3065x-series/page/2/ (https://siglentna.com/operating-tips/sdm3065x-series/page/2/)

I looked through these; I didn't find anything regarding the issue I'm having. The one app note regarding first use of EasyDMM and setting up a scan is how I've already done it.
Have you studied the SC manual ?
https://int.siglent.com/u_file/download/22_01_06/SC1016_Datasheet_DS60030-E02B.pdf (https://int.siglent.com/u_file/download/22_01_06/SC1016_Datasheet_DS60030-E02B.pdf)

Dunno what else to suggest other than to take this issue to the SDM thread where you may get assistance from other owners.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/) (< all SDM3000 models)
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: tautech on March 22, 2024, 09:07:09 pm
2024 catalogs are now available online. Hard copies will soon be available.

https://int.siglent.com/u_file/document/Siglent%20all%20products%20selection%20guide%202024-03.pdf < All products
https://int.siglent.com/u_file/document/Siglent%20time-domain%20products%20catalog%202024-03.pdf < Time domain products
https://int.siglent.com/u_file/document/Siglent%20RF%20products%20catalog%202024-03.pdf < RF products.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: KungFuJosh on March 22, 2024, 10:12:31 pm
2024 catalogs are now available online. Hard copies will soon be available.

Looks like both 2104X models (Plus & HD) are still alive and well for the year?

Also, where the heck is the new pro DMM series?
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Martin72 on March 22, 2024, 10:33:47 pm
Quote
Looks like both 2104X models (Plus & HD) are still alive and well for the year?

Just because Batterfly no longer lists the 2104X HD does not mean that it will no longer be available.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: KungFuJosh on March 22, 2024, 10:46:19 pm
Quote
Looks like both 2104X models (Plus & HD) are still alive and well for the year?

Just because Batterfly no longer lists the 2104X HD does not mean that it will no longer be available.

There was a comment Rob made inferring the 100MHz model(s) might disappear. Maybe they will, but doesn't look like it will be this year.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Martin72 on March 22, 2024, 10:59:01 pm
I think this is what is meant here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/should-i-replace-my-siglent-sds2014x-plus-oscilloscope-with-sds3014x-hd/msg5392277/#msg5392277 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/should-i-replace-my-siglent-sds2014x-plus-oscilloscope-with-sds3014x-hd/msg5392277/#msg5392277)

At least I don't necessarily read from this that the 2104X HD will disappear.
I don't see any reason why, the 3K HD is slightly better, all the other scopes below the 2K HD are definitely not.
If siglent can't really afford lower prices for this range, then the entire 2k HD range should be scrapped.
Sometimes it's better to say nothing than just hint at something.
Title: Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
Post by: Martin72 on March 22, 2024, 11:12:28 pm
2024 catalogs are now available online. Hard copies will soon be available.
https://int.siglent.com/u_file/document/Siglent%20all%20products%20selection%20guide%202024-03.pdf < All products

The 2000X HD now has 4 math channels, no 2.... 8)