Author Topic: Siglent's new product- SDS2000X Series  (Read 28954 times)

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Online tautech

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Re: Siglent's new product- SDS2000X Series
« Reply #50 on: June 30, 2016, 11:54:00 am »
What about protocol decoding on logical channels, still not supported ?
Works for me. I tried acquiring a serial stream from an arduino with both analog and digital channels. Serial decode works fine on both. I had them both on screen at the same time, did not notice any skew between the analog, digital and decoded results.

That's good, thanks.
And a couple I got sent from the factory.

Just Digital channels



Captured on PC

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Offline radar_macgyver

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Re: Siglent's new product- SDS2000X Series
« Reply #51 on: July 02, 2016, 05:57:57 am »
I wonder if you'd be so lenient if you bought a new car and the salesman tells you they will install the handle to open the trunk maybe somewhere in the future....
Holy shit, I've seen the error of my ways. I'm contacting Saelig right now and getting them to RMA my scope for a full refund. Maybe I might even get them to send me a pony.  ::)
 

Online tautech

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Re: Siglent's new product- SDS2000X Series
« Reply #52 on: July 16, 2016, 01:02:21 am »
Finally got around to getting a SDS2304X with MSO option and LA HW and wanted to share some pics of the HW.

Overview




Siglents SPL2016 16 channel LA probe set
http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=1542&id=1488&tid=1&T=2



The grabbers are finer than I expected, just fine enough for SOIC but I doubt anything smaller.
They are E-Z HOOK branded, made in the USA and come in a small plastic case.
The flying leads are thin and supple and ~6" long excepting the 2 Gnd leads that are ~4".
The connector that inserts (quite a way) into the scopes LA socket has 2 buttons that need be depressed for removal but insertion just a push. There are two 8 channel pods on flat cables 40" (1M) long and each pod can be removed if required.


300 MHz passive probes.



These fixed 10:1 probes are fitted with an attenuation pin and accessories include a BNC adapter and Gnd spring.
They are a little smaller than switchable probes, one shown for comparison on an inch grid cutting mat.
The hook of these probes engages very firmly on the probe with a defined click, no way these will fall off.  :-+

« Last Edit: July 16, 2016, 01:08:27 am by tautech »
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Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: Siglent's new product- SDS2000X Series
« Reply #53 on: July 16, 2016, 05:07:18 pm »
Looks very very nice! You are lucky man! :)

Wish you lots of fun and many cool projects with your new equipment!
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Siglent's new product- SDS2000X Series
« Reply #54 on: July 16, 2016, 06:19:12 pm »
Looks very very nice! You are lucky man! :)

Wish you lots of fun and many cool projects with your new equipment!
Tautech is a Siglent distributor so he better have some merchandise to show to customers!
BTW It seems Siglent has put color coding on the logic probe leads and the logic probes overall look light years better than what Siglent shipped with the SDS2000 series.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2016, 06:20:52 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent's new product- SDS2000X Series
« Reply #55 on: July 16, 2016, 07:16:53 pm »

...logic probe leads and the logic probes overall look light years better than what Siglent shipped with the SDS2000 series.

I have seen (and handled) both in live. They are from different planet.
Also these fixed 10x analog  probes feels bit higher quality.
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline AR

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Re: Siglent's new product- SDS2000X Series
« Reply #56 on: July 16, 2016, 10:11:28 pm »
Hello Tautech,


Does this series of Siglent do off screen serial decoding like the GDS2204E.

Regards
AR
 

Online tautech

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Re: Siglent's new product- SDS2000X Series
« Reply #57 on: July 16, 2016, 10:46:52 pm »
Hello Tautech,


Does this series of Siglent do off screen serial decoding like the GDS2204E.

Regards
AR
Not in the same way AR.
We use a slow timebase setting to capture a string and then the zoom function to examine parts of the string in detail.
Eg, borrowed from this post by rf-loop:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1000x-series-oscilloscopes/msg920669/#msg920669

Different series I know, but it demonstrates the methodology.

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Online nctnico

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Re: Siglent's new product- SDS2000X Series
« Reply #58 on: July 16, 2016, 11:45:36 pm »
As you can see Siglent only decodes and lists what is on-screen.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online tautech

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Re: Siglent's new product- SDS2000X Series
« Reply #59 on: July 17, 2016, 12:11:35 am »
.....
Also these fixed 10x analog  probes feels bit higher quality.
Of note, the 10x attenuation pin on these Siglent SP20*0A probes also sets the correct 10x channel input attenuation when used with the older SDS2000 (not X) series.  :)

Resistance between the select pin on the probe termination and BNC shell is 11K.
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Online tautech

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Re: Siglent's new product- SDS2000X Series
« Reply #60 on: July 17, 2016, 12:28:25 am »
I'd not seen a "side by side" of both SDS2k and SDS2kX online so here's one:
SDS2kX above.



While some wanted/needed more space between controls only the Trig level and the Multi knob were very close together. Now all knobs have been reduced in size and as watchers will know in a different layout too.
Some buttons have been moved also.
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent's new product- SDS2000X Series
« Reply #61 on: July 17, 2016, 07:16:45 am »
As you can see Siglent only decodes and lists what is on-screen.

It can decode only what is captured. I do not know any scope what can decode things what are not captured. 
And, what is captured is also on the screen. Siglent, unlike some others, show all what is captured on the screen and there is not captured part of trace outside of screen.
It looks like this is very hard to understand by peoples who have adapted to thinking that captured waveform length is over display width. Siglent use WICIWYS principle. There is is not unvisible part of captured waveform behind left or right diplay border,  whole lenght of captured waveform is visible. This is also important for reduce blind time. All time what is not visible on the screen is time when user is blind for what is going on. Many scopes hide part of captured lenght and display is only narrow "slice" from whole capture lenght - just for nothing.

There is NOTHING out from window left or right border -  repeat, there is nothing out from window what oscilloscope know, so it also can not decode this nothing. So why this nonsense question after every corner.

But about my old image quoted here. I do not know if zoom window and decoded byte counter (column: NO)  in list is repaired. As can see time in the list is correct (column: TIME). And it decode just perfect when there is string before zoomed window left border. As can see zoomed window is in this example positioned to end of whole decoded string. Before original time of this image there was FW version where this did not work.

If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Siglent's new product- SDS2000X Series
« Reply #62 on: July 17, 2016, 08:57:42 am »
As you can see Siglent only decodes and lists what is on-screen.

It can decode only what is captured. I do not know any scope what can decode things what are not captured. 
It has captured a lot of messages (see zoom window) but the lister only shows what is on screen and thus it decodes only what is on screen. Is that so hard to understand? Just look at the picture. There is 250ms of text captured but only 13ms is shown. That 13ms shows about 12 characters so roughly 240 characters are missing from the list.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2016, 09:01:48 am by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent's new product- SDS2000X Series
« Reply #63 on: July 17, 2016, 09:04:53 am »
As you can see Siglent only decodes and lists what is on-screen.

It can decode only what is captured. I do not know any scope what can decode things what are not captured. 
It has captured a lot of messages (see zoom window) but the lister only shows what is on screen and thus it decodes only what is on screen. Is that so hard to understand?

Just zoom in and out and you can find it all is decoded, whole string. Zoomed window show of course only what is in zoomed window width. It is user who slect how much he zoom in or out and what position he want zoom and look. Difficult to learn how to use equipment?
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 
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Online nctnico

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Re: Siglent's new product- SDS2000X Series
« Reply #64 on: July 17, 2016, 09:07:19 am »
As you can see Siglent only decodes and lists what is on-screen.

It can decode only what is captured. I do not know any scope what can decode things what are not captured. 
It has captured a lot of messages (see zoom window) but the lister only shows what is on screen and thus it decodes only what is on screen. Is that so hard to understand?

Just zoom in and out and you can find it all is decoded, whole string. Zoomed window show of course only what is in zoomed window width. It is user who slect how much he zoom in or out and what position he want zoom and look. Difficult?
No but useless. Hint: try debugging a long I2C or SPI message or a UART based message interchange between 2 devices and it will become perfectly clear to you why decoding only what is on screen really is useless for practical purposes.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online tautech

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Re: Siglent's new product- SDS2000X Series
« Reply #65 on: July 17, 2016, 09:16:14 am »
As you can see Siglent only decodes and lists what is on-screen.

It can decode only what is captured. I do not know any scope what can decode things what are not captured. 
It has captured a lot of messages (see zoom window) but the lister only shows what is on screen and thus it decodes only what is on screen. Is that so hard to understand? Just look at the picture. There is 250ms of text captured but only 13ms is shown. That 13ms shows about 12 characters so roughly 240 characters are missing from the list.
As I understand it and rf-loop will correct me if I'm wrong:

The whole 250ms captured in the image and then zoomed in on can be scrolled through with the H position knob and the decoding and list is updated as you do.

In much the same way as one would use the vernier in a dual timebase CRO.

Correct?
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Online nctnico

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Re: Siglent's new product- SDS2000X Series
« Reply #66 on: July 17, 2016, 09:20:17 am »
It works that way but the problem is that with long messages (which are not ucommon with I2C, SPI and CAN but also with UART message exchanges between 2 devices) you'll lose overview or can't decode the entire message because by the time you zoomed in enough to see the decoded data the beginning of the message is off-screen and the decoding loses track of the message. This may seem like a minor detail but it really nullifies the usefullness of decoding in a practical situation.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2016, 09:24:29 am by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online tautech

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Re: Siglent's new product- SDS2000X Series
« Reply #67 on: July 17, 2016, 09:32:51 am »
It works that way but the problem is that with long messages (which are not ucommon with I2C, SPI and CAN but also with UART message exchanges between 2 devices) you'll lose overview or can't decode the entire message because by the time you zoomed in enough to see the decoded data the beginning of the message is off-screen and the decoding loses track of the message.
Then would you agree that by simply setting the trigger position to the far left of the display would enable sufficient data to be captured in a long message exchange to be then decoded?
Of course an appropriate timebase prior to zooming need be selected and also then the zoomed timebase, but that's not a problem as when zoomed the zoomed timebase is user adjustable just like a dual timebase in a CRO.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2016, 09:41:06 am by tautech »
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Online nctnico

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Re: Siglent's new product- SDS2000X Series
« Reply #68 on: July 17, 2016, 09:58:09 am »
It works that way but the problem is that with long messages (which are not ucommon with I2C, SPI and CAN but also with UART message exchanges between 2 devices) you'll lose overview or can't decode the entire message because by the time you zoomed in enough to see the decoded data the beginning of the message is off-screen and the decoding loses track of the message.
Then would you agree that by simply setting the trigger position to the far left of the display would enable sufficient data to be captured in a long message exchange to be then decoded?
No because there is a limited amount of space on the screen to show the text (text=decoded data in hex, binary, decimal or ASCII). At some point there is too much text to display so you can't see what is being decoded but if you zoom in the beginning is lost so there is no decoding at all.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online tautech

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Re: Siglent's new product- SDS2000X Series
« Reply #69 on: July 17, 2016, 10:11:35 am »
It works that way but the problem is that with long messages (which are not ucommon with I2C, SPI and CAN but also with UART message exchanges between 2 devices) you'll lose overview or can't decode the entire message because by the time you zoomed in enough to see the decoded data the beginning of the message is off-screen and the decoding loses track of the message.
Then would you agree that by simply setting the trigger position to the far left of the display would enable sufficient data to be captured in a long message exchange to be then decoded?
No because there is a limited amount of space on the screen to show the text (text=decoded data in hex, binary, decimal or ASCII). At some point there is too much text to display so you can't see what is being decoded but if you zoom in the beginning is lost so there is no decoding at all.
Sorry I don't get that.  :-//

Here's the pic again:


The trigger condition is met with the first part of the message, the last part of that message is zoomed upon and decoded with the trigger position indicated as off left screen.
Therefore to examine the rest of the message the horizontal position is adjusted to see it.
Is that really too hard?
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Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: Siglent's new product- SDS2000X Series
« Reply #70 on: July 17, 2016, 10:22:19 am »
The trigger defines the start point of the message. That is clear!

But in normal, non-capture mode, you can only fit a limited amount of data on the screen, depending on your time base setting. So you would have to choose your trigger and time base setting carefully, when you are working with long messages.

How does it work in capture mode? Then there is no limit on the amount of data, as long as you stay within the available memory size, right? There the time base setting only defines how much data will fit on an individual screen, but one can scroll through the various screens, right?
« Last Edit: July 17, 2016, 10:26:21 am by pascal_sweden »
 

Online tautech

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Re: Siglent's new product- SDS2000X Series
« Reply #71 on: July 17, 2016, 10:46:51 am »
The trigger defines the start point of the message. That is clear!

But in normal, non-capture mode, you can only fit a limited amount of data on the screen, depending on your time base setting. So you would have to choose your trigger and time base setting carefully, when you are working with long messages.

How does it work in capture mode? Then there is no limit on the amount of data, as long as you stay within the available memory size, right? There the time base setting only defines how much data will fit on an individual screen, but one can scroll through the various screens, right?
To use History mode to capture very long messages one would need to set a trigger condition for the end the message, this I have not tried nor does it come to mind that examples are in any threads.

rf-loop?
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Online nctnico

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Re: Siglent's new product- SDS2000X Series
« Reply #72 on: July 17, 2016, 02:33:11 pm »
Sorry I don't get that.  :-//
The example with ASCII decoding for a UART is poorly choosen so the image doesn't show the problem in a way it is clear to see.

Let me show the power of how the GW Instek GDS2000E does it:

We have this I2C transfer reading 6 bytes from a chip:


Now we want to look into more detail but ofcourse the end of the message falls off the screen:


With full memory decoding it is no problem to scroll to the end of the message without decoding losing track:


Ofcourse this can also be combined with zoom mode:


Decoding like this makes decoding useful to look for timing errors otherwise you are back to counting bits and (in case of I2C) looking for start/stop conditions. Try and do the same with Siglent's decoding.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2016, 02:42:08 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: Siglent's new product- SDS2000X Series
« Reply #73 on: July 17, 2016, 04:02:29 pm »
I noticed in the screenshots that the hex values are not the same among the different screens.
If all the screens are concerning the same I2C data sequence, how come the values are not the same among the different screens? Is this a bug in the GW-Instek firmware? Or did you use screenshots at different points in time, referring to different I2C data sequences?
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Siglent's new product- SDS2000X Series
« Reply #74 on: July 17, 2016, 04:29:05 pm »
This is a quick test with a board I had handy on my bench (thresholds may also be off) and I used different captures when switching between normal/zoom mode so don't get distracted by that. What counts is the idea behind decoding the entire memory.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2016, 04:32:01 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 


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