Author Topic: Siglent's new products - SDS3000 series oscilloscopes  (Read 15343 times)

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Offline rf-loop

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Siglent's new products - SDS3000 series oscilloscopes
« on: May 26, 2014, 08:18:59 am »
Siglent have developed new series of oscilloscopes. These are Siglents top models.

On the paper it looks very interesting.

SDS3000 series have 2 and 4 channels models for 100MHz up to 1GHz range.
Sampling speed is max 4GSa/s  in 200, 350, 500MHz and 1GHz models. 100MHz models have max 2GSa/s as in SDS2000 series all models)
Waveform update rate up to 250kwfms/s
It is normal and mixed signal oscilloscope.
It have 10,1"  1024x600 TFT  (also interface for external monitor)
10Mpoints/channel memory
Of course in this class it is natural it have lot of advanced trigger and acquire features.
Option: Internal function generator (AWG)  125MSa/s 16kpoints. (output bacside)
Option: MSO 16 channel, 500MSa/s memory 10M
Option: Decoder for IIC, SPI LIN, CAN etc.

Attached front picture of SDS3054

note small text left bottom of display
"Siglent Powered by Teledyne Lecroy" 

(bad joke in professionals coffee break: in future they may change it for Teledyne Lecroy powered by Siglent. Worls is changing.)





 

« Last Edit: May 26, 2014, 08:21:59 am by rf-loop »
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: Siglent's new products - SDS3000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2014, 08:34:47 am »
This new Siglent scope is very similar to HDO4000 series. It is funny.
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent's new products - SDS3000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2014, 08:39:19 am »
This new Siglent scope is very similar to HDO4000 series. It is funny.

As I told:
bottom of Siglent TFT screen read: Siglent Powered by Teledyne Lecroy.
(it can read using some artist freedoms: "Siglent Teledyne LeCroy")
« Last Edit: May 26, 2014, 08:44:23 am by rf-loop »
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: Siglent's new products - SDS3000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2014, 08:42:57 am »
So what? Does Siglent use some older LeCroy ASICs or something?
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent's new products - SDS3000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2014, 09:17:00 am »
So what? Does Siglent use some older LeCroy ASICs or something?

Kindly.
Your question reflects your thoughts.
I will not become a guessing game. I will not speculate referred to by circumstance.
I pointed out just what the bottom of the screen reads. Since it is a bit of a new phenomenon.

Secondly, HDO4000 series is almost completely different device. Although the external convergence is. This in turn does not conflict with anything. Especially when you consider the text at the bottom of the screen which, at least for me is the first time when the product bears the name of Siglent.
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline Harvs

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Re: Siglent's new products - SDS3000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2014, 09:29:33 am »
Is there a price yet?  Otherwise there's really no way of comparing.

Given it's 1GHz max bandwidth, do I assume that 4GSa/s is per channel?
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent's new products - SDS3000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2014, 10:01:11 am »
Is there a price yet?  Otherwise there's really no way of comparing.

Given it's 1GHz max bandwidth, do I assume that 4GSa/s is per channel?

Not yet overseas price.
But if look domestic price it give something for thinking.
SDS2000 series starting around  CNY6000 and SDS3000 starting around CNY 20000.

I do not believe simultaneous 4GSa/s for all channels.

This is what I think after read chinese datasheet etc.
It is organized so that 2 channel group have 4GSa/s (for single channel in use in two channel group 4GSa/s and for both channels in use  2GSa/s per channel. In 4 channel model there is 2 x 2channel group.
(in 100 MHz model 2GSa/s arranged as in SDS2000)
If this is true then 4 channel model can use with 2 channel so that both have 4GSa/s.
Of course real time work need least 4GSa/s for 1GHz BW.
For repetitive signals this is not at all problem when use repetitive sampling.
So, it is not fully 1GHz real time oscilloscope if all available channels are used simultaneously.
Analog channel before ADC is designed for 1GHz BW. Risetime better or equal 350ps.
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline M0BSW

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Re: Siglent's new products - SDS3000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2014, 10:08:55 am »
These look very nice,but expensive!!!!!, to the real world I have just been bought a Siglent  SDS-1102-CNL 100Mhz
1GB sampling,  I am absolutely totally happy with it, as  mainly a hobbyist, it does me fine compared to my 10Mhz CRO,plus it's helping me in repairing a servicing which something I seem to have fallen into, and really enjoying. The SDSD 3000 series are without any doubt on a different universe to mine, but if I could afford one,which I can't ,would it really make much difference to my level of electronics!!!!!.
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Offline nctnico

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Re: Siglent's new products - SDS3000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2014, 10:11:13 am »
So what? Does Siglent use some older LeCroy ASICs or something?
Siglents builds these scopes and sells a rebranded version to Lecroy. All of Lecroy's 'low end' range equipment is made by Siglent.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: Siglent's new products - SDS3000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2014, 10:35:19 am »
So that DS6000 series from Rigol is still unbeaten. http://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/ds6000/ And It was introduced in 8/2011. 
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Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: Siglent's new products - SDS3000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2014, 12:32:29 pm »
Siglent have developed new series of oscilloscopes.

Assuming the picture is genuine, I'm not sure that this is really a Siglent development...

Quote
note small text left bottom of display
"Siglent Powered by Teledyne Lecroy"

...because based on the picture this would suggest this scope uses LeCroy's proprietary XStream technology and software. It would also mean that this scope is likely to run Windows (as XStream software is based on Windows), with a complete PC inside the scope, which will make it very expensive (and I'm not sure many will spend that much on a Siglent scope).

And even if it is a XStream scope, the question will be if it does have all the capabilities of a LeCroy XStream scope, and will the advanced options be available for it as well.


Edit: I did a search and found Siglent's spec sheet for that scope (in Chinese):

http://www.siglent.com/DataSheet/CN/SDS3000_dataSheet_CN.pdf

It talks about USB Host and device ports (XStream scopes don't do USB device mode), however the pictures do look like a XStream scope, although the screen images lack the Aero effect that can be seen on current LeCroy scopes like the HDO4000 series.

The scope also seem to have ProBus probe interfaces.

Very strange.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2014, 12:55:00 pm by Wuerstchenhund »
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Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: Siglent's new products - SDS3000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2014, 08:58:29 pm »
I like the back panel, but why is there a D-SUB instead of DVI? Come on, it is 2014. My old 17" LG monitor from 2006 has a DVI video input.
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Offline iRad

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Re: Siglent's new products - SDS3000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2014, 09:22:30 pm »
Siglent have developed new series of oscilloscopes.
SDS3000 series have 2 and 4 channels models for 100MHz up to 1GHz range.

OK, the series starts out @ 2CH 100MHz

SDS3000 starting around CNY 20000.

I take that to mean for about 3200.00 US$ for a 100MHz 2CH Scope... Not very competitive at all...
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent's new products - SDS3000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2014, 09:27:31 pm »
Apparently it will only be available to Western markets as a LeCroy.
I am not sure that this is a good thing, but I do have a vested interest.  >:D
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Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: Siglent's new products - SDS3000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2014, 12:04:17 am »
 :palm: Oh, poor LeCroy.
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Offline echen1024

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Re: Siglent's new products - SDS3000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2014, 12:04:37 am »
Bringing more competition to the market. Always a good thing. This is an interesting scope, as it is Siglent's move to push into the mid range of scope markets up to 1GHz. Very interesting to see how this scope performs.
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Offline Harvs

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Re: Siglent's new products - SDS3000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2014, 12:13:06 am »
Siglent's move to push into the mid range of scope markets up to 1GHz.

But what about probes?  I wonder what the 1GHz model comes with and at what price?
 

Offline Fsck

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Re: Siglent's new products - SDS3000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2014, 12:17:53 am »
I like the back panel, but why is there a D-SUB instead of DVI? Come on, it is 2014. My old 17" LG monitor from 2006 has a DVI video input.

why ask for DVI then? displayport is the "display"-oriented standard.
(HDMI is the consumer all-in-one cable, so don't even dare!)
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent's new products - SDS3000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2014, 06:35:48 am »
Siglent's move to push into the mid range of scope markets up to 1GHz.

But what about probes?  I wonder what the 1GHz model comes with and at what price?

As we can quess scope probe connection is compatible with LeCroy ProBus.

I do not have any knowledge what probes they include with 1GHz model.

But If take some things together "Powered by Teledyne LeCroy"
Scope front image where can see ProBus looks like interface for probe.
BW 1GHz.

With these in mind looking what is Teledyne LeCroy solution for this.

Good probe for this is example ZS1500 from Teledyne Lecroy.

Quote
ZS1500
1.5 GHz, 1 M?, 0.9 pF Active Probe
The ZS1500 is ideal for 1 GHz and lower oscilloscopes.

This probe separate purchased fron Farnell in Finland. ( http://fi.farnell.com/lecroy/zs1500/probe-active-1-5ghz/dp/1272493?Ntt=ZS1500 )
One single probe:  1 860,00 €  (0% VAT)
Including VAT   2 306,40 €


It DO NOT mean that with this Siglent is exactly this probe! This was just only for imagine that this class of probes are not cheap.   

I think over 500MHz it is difficult to think that scope is equipped only with passive probes.

« Last Edit: May 27, 2014, 06:37:49 am by rf-loop »
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: Siglent's new products - SDS3000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2014, 10:13:00 am »
According to someone in the LeCroy Yahoo group this scope is supposed to replace the LeCroy WaveSurfer Series. It seems to run Windows CE (like the Agilent DSO-X) so it's not a fully fledged PC. The XStream software is also cut down and seem to lack most of the options available for current LeCroy XStream scopes.

Apparently LeCroy is now working with Siglent in a similar way they have been with Iwatsu, i..e Lecroy provides software and Siglent provides the hardware design. Although it is certainly a good thing if Siglent doesn't do the software (something which they are terrible at) on that thing, but I'm not sure that Siglent can provide the appropriate quality for such products. The Iwatsu-made LeCroys like the WaveSurfer weren't cheap but they were high quality scopes with loads of processing power, advanced software and the capability to install MathLab, LabView or any other Windows software directly onto the scope. This is now supposed to be replaced by a scope running some embedded OS and a stripped down variant of the XStream software on a low power platform.

The current WaveSurfer starts at $11k for the 4Ch 200MHz variant. Based on the price difference between a WaveAce and the original Siglent scope, my guess would be that (assuming the price of roughly $3200 is for the Siglent SDS3102 2Ch 100MHz is correct) the LeCroy variant of that scope will probaby go for roughly $8k (based on the way they upsell their Siglent-made WaveAce/WaveStation). This would mean that the 4Ch 200MHz variant will probably be close to what the current WaveSufer costs, and this IMHO is excessive for a scope like the SDS3000.

I also wonder how LeCroy will prevent the Siglent variant (which is supposed to be sold in China only) to find its way to Europe and the US, which means lost sales (Siglent support is worse than LeCroys which is important but if the LeCroy variant is costing almost 3x as much then you can buy two Siglent scopes and still save a lot of money).
« Last Edit: May 27, 2014, 10:20:15 am by Wuerstchenhund »
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Offline nctnico

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Re: Siglent's new products - SDS3000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2014, 10:22:18 am »
I think over 500MHz it is difficult to think that scope is equipped only with passive probes.
Not a problem at all as long as the scope has 50 Ohm inputs. Some passive divider HF probes go to several GHz.
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent's new products - SDS3000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2014, 11:01:31 am »
I think over 500MHz it is difficult to think that scope is equipped only with passive probes.
Not a problem at all as long as the scope has 50 Ohm inputs. Some passive divider HF probes go to several GHz.

Of course. All can do, also sell scopes without any probes or passive probes or what ever. What is wise, I do not know. Keysight may know better.

And even to 1M input as Tektronix TPP1000
But also these are not cheap and input capacitance is quite high for 1GHz (around 4pF tip)

And more if look 50ohm passive  probes (example http://www.ggb.com/10.html ) or even diy probes what we did tens of years ago (in military exercise workshop just for rest time fun and playing)

Of course <1pF is different as 4pF and so on.  4pF cap reactance with 1GHz freq is around 40 ohm.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2014, 11:05:27 am by rf-loop »
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent's new products - SDS3000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2014, 11:31:30 am »
Quote
I also wonder how LeCroy will prevent the Siglent variant (which is supposed to be sold in China only) to find its way to Europe and the US, which means lost sales

Exactly what I have asked Siglent.

The Chinese market will be more profitable per unit than sales to LeCroy so we may well see some units "migrate" to the west.
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Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: Siglent's new products - SDS3000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2014, 04:34:46 pm »
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Offline Mark_O

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Re: Siglent's new products - SDS3000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2014, 05:47:02 pm »
The current WaveSurfer starts at $11k for the 4Ch 200MHz variant. Based on the price difference between a WaveAce and the original Siglent scope, my guess would be that (assuming the price of roughly $3200 is for the Siglent SDS3102 2Ch 100MHz is correct) the LeCroy variant of that scope will probaby go for roughly $8k (based on the way they upsell their Siglent-made WaveAce/WaveStation). This would mean that the 4Ch 200MHz variant will probably be close to what the current WaveSufer costs, and this IMHO is excessive for a scope like the SDS3000.

Except the cost of a 2-channel, 200 MHz LeCroy version (WaveSurfer 3022) is only $3,200 USD, not $8k.  Perhaps that price guess for the SDS3102 was too high?

Quote
I also wonder how LeCroy will prevent the Siglent variant (which is supposed to be sold in China only) to find its way to Europe and the US, which means lost sales (Siglent support is worse than LeCroys which is important but if the LeCroy variant is costing almost 3x as much then you can buy two Siglent scopes and still save a lot of money).

The differential isn't what you projected.  Still, it's surprising (and unfortunate) that the LeCroy version does not support some protocols (like CAN and LIN), that the Siglent version does.  And Siglent offers a lower-priced 100 MHz option, which LeCroy bypassed.
 


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