Author Topic: signal generator advice  (Read 2297 times)

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Offline vlelectroniclabTopic starter

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signal generator advice
« on: October 21, 2024, 08:17:29 pm »
hello everyone,
i am in the automotive control unit repairs and i would like to buy a new signal generator.
mainly now i use an old hung chang. i use it to generate the signals of the rpm sensors and pwm signals for caterpillar accelerators and for other types of signals.
what do you recommend?
budget 200/400euro (i am in Italy)
thanks a lot

regards Vito
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: signal generator advice
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2024, 08:33:35 pm »
Hi Vito,
I would recommend this 2-channel generator across the board, as I owned it myself and couldn't find anything bad about it.
Unless you could explain your requirements for a generator in more detail.

https://www.batterfly.com/shop/it/testandmeasurement/generatori-di-funzioni/siglent-sdg1032x
 
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Offline DaneLaw

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Re: signal generator advice
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2024, 09:13:26 pm »
Most cheap signal generators can create these crude signals.
so its more if there is other factors that matters for you..
Like mobility, which can be handy when working with automotive repairs, or prefer big touchscreen, or it to be a small, compact battery-operated rugged unit etc.
A tad more info on what matters for you. would help.
 
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Offline coromonadalix

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Re: signal generator advice
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2024, 11:28:45 pm »
programmable waveforms generators .... ?  meaning you can design the waveform you need,  but pwm  is another case
 

Offline NE666

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Re: signal generator advice
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2024, 08:34:26 am »
I'm currently window shopping for something similar and whilst I therefore caveat my statement with saying I've not owned one (at least, not yet), for simple pulse and PWM trains I would also go for the SDG1032X. Unless, of course, you absolutely require a battery operated unit.

There are many other options in this price range, most if not all of which would be adequate for the use case you've described so far. However, I've come to the conclusion that of those, only Siglent really offer any kind of customer support and aftercare, and with it 'finished' products. The SDG1000x series is many years old now and has received firmware updates at least once per year from Siglent for fixes and enhancements. From what I've seen and read on this forum, that's sadly an exception rather than the rule in this budget end of the market, and for me worth a few extra tens of euros.

You may even be fortunate enough to find a good second hand unit on the auction sites, from someone who is upgrading. I recently missed such an opportunity for ~150 euros.

 
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Offline Martin72

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Re: signal generator advice
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2024, 08:50:06 am »
SDG1032X on Ebay

150 starting price or price offer.

Online Aldo22

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Re: signal generator advice
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2024, 10:38:12 am »
A tad more info on what matters for you. would help.

I agree.
I think any $50 signal generator can create these signals with sufficient quality.
So the question is rather what else is important to you.
Durability and stability, support, size, independence from mains voltage etc...
 

Offline vlelectroniclabTopic starter

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Re: signal generator advice
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2024, 11:29:05 am »
Hi,
thanks to everyone for the answers.
at this point if I were independent from the electrical network it would be great for field checks.
for more complex things it would be to try a common rail injection system, this would help me to synchronize the two rpm sensors.
one sensor must simulate for example 80 teeth minus 2, while the other must simulate when the range with variable timing passes with respect to the first signal.
sorry if I get some words wrong but I use a translator
what do you think?
 

Offline vlelectroniclabTopic starter

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Offline 2N3055

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Re: signal generator advice
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2024, 11:43:42 am »

Is powered 15vdc?

It is not.
None of the "real" AWG will have low voltage power.

You are doing it wrong though.
Your biggest problem is creation of signals. How do you plan to make signals?

Do you want to capture (record) an existing  signal from the car and then "play it again"?
Or do you plan to create signal in some software and then "put it in" an AWG and then play it from there?
"Just hard work is not enough - it must be applied sensibly."
Dr. Richard W. Hamming
 

Offline vlelectroniclabTopic starter

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Re: signal generator advice
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2024, 11:49:59 am »
I would like to create in a software and then generate it
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: signal generator advice
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2024, 01:06:40 pm »
I would like to create in a software and then generate it
In this case I'd look at software to create the waveforms first and a generator second. Creating waveforms can be a tedious job though and IMHO it is wrong to assume that using some graphic editor is going make this job easy unless the editor has a function which can create the exact waveform you need as some kind of standard template.

Otherwise, I'd suggest to use a script (or small program) to create a CSV file, read the CSV into a spreadsheet, modify to add anomalies and then upload it into a generator. Having the least points possible will help a lot in this case. The generator will reconstruct a smooth signal from the points provided.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Grandchuck

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Re: signal generator advice
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2024, 01:50:42 pm »
EasyWaveX might work.  I have no idea but it is a free download and can be used with Siglent AWGs.
 

Online csuhi17

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Re: signal generator advice
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2024, 02:16:24 pm »
How does this sound to you?
https://www.rigolitalia.it/products/generatore-di-funzione-rigol-dg822-pro-25-mhz-dual-channel?srsltid=AfmBOorquXzFttfhMAFU5U6iX8VR543sL5_IPJ5H9Wr5SdVAI9QAnzam

Is powered 15vdc?

Yes that None "real" AWG powered by 15Vdc.

Power Supply
Power Interface USB Type-C Interface
Input Voltage USB PD 15 V, 3 A
Consumption 45 W (max.)

However, there is still no option to add your own wave, it is not possible to know when Rigol will make that function available.
Fnirsi oscilloscope = waste&regret
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: signal generator advice
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2024, 02:46:32 pm »
How does this sound to you?
https://www.rigolitalia.it/products/generatore-di-funzione-rigol-dg822-pro-25-mhz-dual-channel?srsltid=AfmBOorquXzFttfhMAFU5U6iX8VR543sL5_IPJ5H9Wr5SdVAI9QAnzam

Is powered 15vdc?

Yes that None "real" AWG powered by 15Vdc.

Power Supply
Power Interface USB Type-C Interface
Input Voltage USB PD 15 V, 3 A
Consumption 45 W (max.)

However, there is still no option to add your own wave, it is not possible to know when Rigol will make that function available.

So like I said: "None of the "real" AWG will have low voltage power."

This siggen you show has no full set of capabilities needed at this moment.
If Rigol ever adds those functions, than I change that statement.
But being user of Rigol equipment for many years, I would not hold my breath.
There are devices that have been sold for years now that never got problems solved.

When I see it and it works, then I trust them.

On top of that, there is a question of software for creation of waveforms. Rigol Ultra Station was painful experience.
I would wish it on an enemy.

OP needs this for real work and today. Not maybe someday..
"Just hard work is not enough - it must be applied sensibly."
Dr. Richard W. Hamming
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: signal generator advice
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2024, 03:00:20 pm »
There is also the UNI-T UTG932E which is super cheap and powered from 5V. But I wouldn't buy it before looking at a review showing the custom waveform generation process and decide it is useful.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline fredo_

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Re: signal generator advice
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2024, 04:14:40 pm »
I have used a Python script to create a digital waveform loaded in my Owon XDG 2035, if it's of any help : https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-xdg2000-arbitrary-waveform-generator/msg5422235/#msg5422235

The thing costs 289€ VAT excl. : https://www.owontechnology.eu/product/1398979/owon-xdg2035-35mhz-2-ch-arbitrary-waveform-generator
« Last Edit: October 22, 2024, 04:20:20 pm by fredo_ »
 

Offline DaneLaw

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Re: signal generator advice
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2024, 06:31:41 pm »
How does this sound to you?
https://www.rigolitalia.it/products/generatore-di-funzione-rigol-dg822-pro-25-mhz-dual-channel?srsltid=AfmBOorquXzFttfhMAFU5U6iX8VR543sL5_IPJ5H9Wr5SdVAI9QAnzam

Is powered 15vdc?

yes, you can run those on powerbanks... it just need to support PD15V (power delivery) and a powerbank with high wattage support (fx +45W variant)
They consume quite a bit (35w) and they take over a minute to start up and their fan is quite annoying.

The benefits are the big touch screen, quite newly released model fast risetimes (3ns), with a UI that Rigol also seems to implement on their highter tier sig-gens like DG5000PRO.
DG-800PRO & DG-900PRO have a portfolio of waveforms that seems to be relevant in automotive, though others do have more, I'm not familiar with automotive electronic repair, and which could be handy for your work, but you can see the inbuilt ones below.

« Last Edit: October 22, 2024, 08:30:04 pm by DaneLaw »
 

Offline wasedadoc

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Re: signal generator advice
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2024, 07:23:41 pm »
The Uni-T 932/962 can have only one user generated waveform uploaded into volatile memory at a time. Switch off and it is gone until you connect to computer and upload again.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2024, 07:25:36 pm by wasedadoc »
 

Offline NE666

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Re: signal generator advice
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2024, 10:30:54 am »
The benefits are the big touch screen, quite newly released model fast risetimes (3ns), with a UI that Rigol also seems to implement on their highter tier sig-gens like DG5000PRO.

Yes, very nice and features that still make me want to consider it for my own purchase, over anything from Siglent in this price range. But haven't you yourself written in other threads here that the stability of that UI isn't great? And that you see "odd" behaviour sometimes? (My apologies, if I have confused you with another contributor).

Besides which, the inexplicable absence of the ability to create a single-shot, manually triggered pulse which can exploit that (variable) rise-time makes it pointless for my own requirements.

To my original point on this thread, and the OP's question of recommendation, if I had any confidence remaining in Rigol to eventually/ever fix any of these issues then I would have purchased in last month when Rigol had a sale on them.
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: signal generator advice
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2024, 11:46:33 am »
I'm not saying Rigol is better quality wise but IMHO Siglent has been sticking to the tiny screens on their low end generators for way too long (over 10 years already) which makes operation cumbersome compared to the competition.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2024, 11:48:45 am by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: signal generator advice
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2024, 11:54:50 am »
I'm not saying Rigol is better but IMHO Siglent has been sticking to the tiny screens on their low end generators for way too long (over 10 years already).

That is why on that series Rigol put in a large screen and forgot to put in loading of customer arbitrary waveforms into arbitrary waveform generator. 
Excellent choice of priorities.
"Just hard work is not enough - it must be applied sensibly."
Dr. Richard W. Hamming
 
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Offline nctnico

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Re: signal generator advice
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2024, 12:15:52 pm »
I'm not saying Rigol is better but IMHO Siglent has been sticking to the tiny screens on their low end generators for way too long (over 10 years already).

That is why on that series Rigol put in a large screen and forgot to put in loading of customer arbitrary waveforms into arbitrary waveform generator. 
Excellent choice of priorities.
Yep. Classic  :-DD
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline NE666

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Re: signal generator advice
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2024, 04:38:40 pm »
Yes, the ability to prioritise effectively is an essential part of good product management. However, I'm going to agree with nctnico on this. To see Siglent use the same, tired, years-old small touchscreen and mediocre UI on their 'new' SDG1000X Plus series is disappointing. I at least, think they could do more and still not risk quality and the reputation they've earnt.   
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: signal generator advice
« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2024, 05:36:19 pm »
Yes, the ability to prioritise effectively is an essential part of good product management. However, I'm going to agree with nctnico on this. To see Siglent use the same, tired, years-old small touchscreen and mediocre UI on their 'new' SDG1000X Plus series is disappointing. I at least, think they could do more and still not risk quality and the reputation they've earnt.

Big screen seems like a good thing.
But despite "tired old mediocre UI" that Siglent is fully featured AWG, and that fancy looking Rigol AWG is not really an AWG if it cannot load arbitrary waveforms by user.
Form over function.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2024, 07:31:29 pm by 2N3055 »
"Just hard work is not enough - it must be applied sensibly."
Dr. Richard W. Hamming
 
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