Author Topic: So what do you do when you need a modern transistor curve tracer?  (Read 10884 times)

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Offline slow_riderTopic starter

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I'll start with this - The option of buying something used from the olden days is out of the question :)

Modern approach seems to buy source-meter (or a couple) and setup everything in software.

Is there a modern equivalent for a standalone curve tracer that could be used reliably with trusted calibration and easy export of data?

Thanks!
« Last Edit: May 05, 2022, 06:40:45 pm by slow_rider »
 

Offline Grandchuck

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Re: So what do you do when you need a modern transistor curve tracer?
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2022, 08:09:21 pm »
This one is only low power.  It is very useful, otherwise, and stores data in a text file.

 

Offline RoGeorge

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Re: So what do you do when you need a modern transistor curve tracer?
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2022, 08:18:44 pm »
Buy a SMU.
 
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Offline slow_riderTopic starter

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Re: So what do you do when you need a modern transistor curve tracer?
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2022, 08:30:15 pm »
Buy a SMU.

So this is one approach... Keithley offers several but 2 channels max, so you need 2. Also, tracing of 3 terminal devices and is not built in. They want you to pay even more for a software that does that. A setup like could easily go for $8k+ and you have the complexity of running two SMUs for this 1 task.

No one makes new curves tracers professionally anymore?
 

Offline bob91343

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Re: So what do you do when you need a modern transistor curve tracer?
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2022, 08:38:44 pm »
I have been wanting to build one for some time.  My first need is for a staircase generator.  I would think some ARBs could do this.  The second part is a triangle wave generator; these are common and cheap.  Add a couple of resistors and a scope and you have what you want, just not self contained.
 

Offline RoGeorge

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Re: So what do you do when you need a modern transistor curve tracer?
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2022, 08:41:05 pm »
Keithley offers several but 2 channels max, so you need 2. Also, tracing of 3 terminal devices and is not built in.

A SMU channel can set either a constant I or a constant V, while measuring both V and I generated.  2 channels should be enough for 3 terminal devices.

What for do you need the curve tracer, and what is the budget?

Offline Johnny10

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Re: So what do you do when you need a modern transistor curve tracer?
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2022, 08:45:56 pm »
Don't forget the B&K 501A Curve tracer you can get for a couple hundred dollars.
It's fairly modern.
Quite easy to use, you just need a X-Y capable oscilloscope.
Tektronix TDS7104, DMM4050, HP 3561A, HP 35665, Tek 2465A, HP8903B, DSA602A, Tek 7854, 7834, HP3457A, Tek 575, 576, 577 Curve Tracers, Datron 4000, Datron 4000A, DOS4EVER uTracer, HP5335A, EIP534B 20GHz Frequency Counter, TrueTime Rubidium, Sencore LC102, Tek TG506, TG501, SG503, HP 8568B
 

Offline RoGeorge

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Re: So what do you do when you need a modern transistor curve tracer?
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2022, 09:22:33 pm »
Easy to improvise, too.  For power transistors, I made once a Python script and used two channels from Rigol DP832, a lab power supply:  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dp832-power-supply-as-automated-curve-tracer/





Some other time I've used a signal generator, a scrapped transformer and a DS1054Z oscilloscope in XY mode to identify what type of photodetectors was in a former optical punched card reader from around 1975.  It was a phototransistor, not photodiode, not photoresistor.

At certain light level + sweep frequency combination, the traced curve was looking like an alligator.  ;D

« Last Edit: May 05, 2022, 09:30:41 pm by RoGeorge »
 
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Offline dorkshoei

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Re: So what do you do when you need a modern transistor curve tracer?
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2022, 09:44:15 pm »
Easy to improvise, too.  For power transistors, I made once a Python script and used two channels from Rigol DP832, a lab power supply: 

Pretty common concept, here is similar from Keysight:
 

Offline alm

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Re: So what do you do when you need a modern transistor curve tracer?
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2022, 10:38:50 pm »
No one makes new curves tracers professionally anymore?
Sure they do, it's called a semiconductor parameter analyzer, and it's basically a number of SMUs in a box with some software. The Keithley 4200A-SCS is one example. They started replacing the curve tracers in the eighties, with units like the HP 4142B. If you think that's expensive, start calculating the price of the Tek 575 in today's money.

You can also improvise with power supplies, but you'll often run into limitations like not going low enough in current programming or readback  for the base current (for a BJT), inability to sink current, or the ability to sweep from positive to negative voltages. A SMU is basically a power supply that addresses all of these issues. It's just that they are quite a bit more expensive because they are a much more niche item and more much more complicated to design.

Offline RoGeorge

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Re: So what do you do when you need a modern transistor curve tracer?
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2022, 11:27:54 pm »
For a very cheap SMU, about $100 yet dual channel and still 16 bits of resolution (though only 200mA, and only 5V  :-\), there is the didactic board Adalm1000 from Analog Devices:
https://www.analog.com/en/design-center/evaluation-hardware-and-software/evaluation-boards-kits/adalm1000.html
 
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Online Thomas

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Re: So what do you do when you need a modern transistor curve tracer?
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2022, 10:28:53 am »
Analog Discovery 2 can be used for this too, albeit with a few external components:
https://www.instructables.com/Semiconductor-Curve-Tracer-With-the-Analog-Discove/
 
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Offline alm

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Re: So what do you do when you need a modern transistor curve tracer?
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2022, 07:25:27 am »
Analog Discovery 2 can be used for this too, albeit with a few external components:
https://www.instructables.com/Semiconductor-Curve-Tracer-With-the-Analog-Discove/
There's also the official Digilent solution and this third-party solution that pre-dates the Digilent one. But I wouldn't consider the Analog Discovery, particularly with an add-on board, as a professional tool with "trusted calibration". I think it would be hard to find a calibration lab willing to certify this setup.

Online Thomas

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Re: So what do you do when you need a modern transistor curve tracer?
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2022, 10:51:56 am »
Oops, I missed the "trusted calibration" part :-[
 

Online Swake

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Re: So what do you do when you need a modern transistor curve tracer?
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2023, 01:03:50 pm »
Ok, it is not having the 'trusted calibration' stamp, but for lots of people, me included, the technique from that instructable will do the job. Thanks for bringing it up.
When it fits stop using the hammer
 

Offline jonpaul

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Re: So what do you do when you need a modern transistor curve tracer?
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2023, 01:46:37 pm »
Friends in 15ème found a vintage Heathkit curve tracer 1970s..1980s, cheap. $50!

Working fine after cleanup.

Heath  made 1000s..see ebay

Jon
An Internet Dinosaur...
 

Offline mawyatt

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Re: So what do you do when you need a modern transistor curve tracer?
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2023, 02:28:35 pm »
Here's one in a pinch, certainly not a stand alone type, nor lab grade precision. Accuracy would be determined mostly by the DSO channels, as 1% resistors for current sense are common.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fooln-around-with-dso-awg/

Best,
Curiosity killed the cat, also depleted my wallet!
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Offline Wallace Gasiewicz

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Re: So what do you do when you need a modern transistor curve tracer?
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2023, 08:54:00 pm »
I have a B&K 501.
Works fine with an analog scope
A real problem to see traces on digital scope.
It is not a modern unit but very useful and has two channels
OP said he did not want old stuff.
 

Offline David Aurora

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Re: So what do you do when you need a modern transistor curve tracer?
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2023, 10:16:35 pm »
There are current model curve tracers out there but it depends what kind of voltages and currents you want to test the DUT at, as well as the volume of parts you want to test. Also, as far as the trusted calibration thing, do you mean you need the unit certified or YOU just need to trust that its accurate?
 

Offline dobsonr741

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Re: So what do you do when you need a modern transistor curve tracer?
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2023, 10:20:13 pm »
Why would one want to use a curve tracer in 2023?
 

Offline PartialDischarge

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Re: So what do you do when you need a modern transistor curve tracer?
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2023, 10:25:10 pm »
Why would one want to use a curve tracer in 2023?
Because analog electronics is still relevant and every idiot can count to one
« Last Edit: February 19, 2023, 10:27:33 pm by PartialDischarge »
 
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Offline TimFox

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Offline switchabl

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Re: So what do you do when you need a modern transistor curve tracer?
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2023, 10:31:53 pm »
Why would one want to use a curve tracer in 2023?

For characterising semiconductor materials and processes (and parts). Specialized stand-alone devices still exist (like the Keysight B1500A) but getting a few SMUs may be cheaper and more versatile depending on what exactly you are doing.
 
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Offline edavid

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Re: So what do you do when you need a modern transistor curve tracer?
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2023, 10:39:02 pm »
Does anyone know about this one?

http://www.amazon.com/Circuit-specialists-Transistor-Equipment-Amplification/dp/B084WWY39D

Here's a fairly comprehensive review of the CSI4810A/CA-4810A curve tracer: https://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/curve_tracer.html

Unfortunately for OP, even if this were still available, it's a completely analog unit with no storage or interface.

Here's the manual: http://www.madelltech.com/curvetracer.pdf

There are current model curve tracers out there but it depends what kind of voltages and currents you want to test the DUT at, as well as the volume of parts you want to test.

That's a bold statement.  Can you name even one that is a standalone unit, not an SMU?  (I don't think the above mentioned Keysight B1500A counts, since it's an SMU system in a box, and I also think OP doesn't want to spend $86K+.)
« Last Edit: February 19, 2023, 10:48:42 pm by edavid »
 
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