Author Topic: Soldering Station, JBC, Ersa or Weller (Update: I´ve bought a Ersa)  (Read 14668 times)

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Online Martin72Topic starter

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Hi folks,

I had enough from my current soldering station from weller, the "cheap" we1010... :P
At work I have a WX-2, no contest....powerful, fast heating, no problems with double or more layer pcbs.
So now I want to have it at home too - but it´s expensive, really expensive.. :(
In our lab at work we also have stations from JBC, powerful too and a little bit cheaper to get.
So where should my money go to?
To JBC, to Weller WX system or Ersa I-Con system( don´t know it) ?
Just post your experiences here...
In my opinion, the three mentioned brands are the "rulers", so spareparts for years should be no problem, therefore I don´t want to read about some chinese brands here. :)
Thanks in advance,
Martin
« Last Edit: June 30, 2023, 09:49:45 pm by Martin72 »
 

Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: Soldering Station, JBC, Ersa or Weller : Decsions, Decisions...
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2023, 11:10:55 pm »
Ersa has no cartridge based soldering stations, so do not buy it.
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Online 2N3055

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Re: Soldering Station, JBC, Ersa or Weller : Decsions, Decisions...
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2023, 11:44:57 pm »
Ersa has no cartridge based soldering stations, so do not buy it.
That is very simplistic view.. Ersa performance is very good, and tips are inexpensive. It is also German brand and Martin can buy tips anywhere. Only problem is that changing tips is not that fast as with hot swap cartridge based designs. And that is something that can be important or not.

I gave up on Weller WD1 (after being a Weller man for 30+ years..) and got PACE ADS200. It works really well. I really like cold aluminium handle. Tips are not that expensive either. My other choice would have been Ersa. JBC then, maybe, tips are expensive..

I think all of them are good enough. Choice would be best based on consumables (tips) availability and price. Price of station gets amortized during years..
 
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Offline switchabl

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Re: Soldering Station, JBC, Ersa or Weller : Decsions, Decisions...
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2023, 11:50:44 pm »
I have the analog JBC "Weidinger Edition" at home. Performance is the same as the digital version and I think it's hard to beat for the price.
 

Offline Arts

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Re: Soldering Station, JBC, Ersa or Weller : Decsions, Decisions...
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2023, 12:57:41 am »
I have been using a JBC CD-1BE station for a few years now, and absolutely love it. The handpiece is quite nice, and I have yet to have a cartridge wear out or fail. Cartridge prices are rather high.

I also have a Hakko FM-203 station with the FM-2027 (T15 tip, 70W) & FM-2030 (T22 tip, 140W) handpieces.  Again, lovely handpieces, and no cartridge failures. Cartridge prices are very reasonable.

Although it's discontinued, I would like to include the Pace WJS-100 for an honorable mention.

 

Online nctnico

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Re: Soldering Station, JBC, Ersa or Weller : Decsions, Decisions...
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2023, 01:18:55 am »
Ersa has no cartridge based soldering stations, so do not buy it.
That is very simplistic view.. Ersa performance is very good, and tips are inexpensive. It is also German brand and Martin can buy tips anywhere. Only problem is that changing tips is not that fast as with hot swap cartridge based designs. And that is something that can be important or not.
Not being able to change tips quickly is not entirely true. It depends on which Ersa station you are using.

My recommendation would be to go for the 'older' Ersa RDS80 soldering station and the 80W basic tool that can use the 832 / 842 series of tips. Those tips are indestructable. You simply don't need to buy spare tips ever. Some of my tips are 20 years old and work like new. I have not come across a brand of soldering irons that has better tips than Ersa. I take the ability of a tip to pick up solder anywhere I need it over heating up time or ease of changing it. The Ersa 832/842  tips use a spring & hook system that allows quick changing and Ersa has special pliers (not expensive) to change the tips quickly. When putting a board together I typically use 3 to 4 different kinds of tips.

I also worked with the newer Ersa I-Con series but I don't like the fact that the tips need to be screwed on. IMHO that is a step back. If you do go for the I-con series, then get a screw cap for each tip to make tip changes a bit quicker. The tips click into the screw cap so getting a hot tip out is iffy. My guess is that the I-Con series is more usefull at places where you don't need to change tips while working on a project.

I have worked with Weller and JBC as well and while having the heating element closer to the tip is nice, I noticed that the tips just aren't as good at picking up solder compared to Ersa.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2023, 01:28:58 am by nctnico »
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Offline Kujo

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Re: Soldering Station, JBC, Ersa or Weller : Decsions, Decisions...
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2023, 05:49:39 am »
I have a JBC CD-2EO1.

I have had cause to change hot tips which is a nice feature. The tips are a bit expensive but they seem durable as i have not had to replace any since i bought the unit 3 years ago. Admittedly i only use 2 tips for 99% of the work that i have needed to do.

I would (and have) recommend it to anyone.
 

Offline Sighound36

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Re: Soldering Station, JBC, Ersa or Weller : Decsions, Decisions...
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2023, 11:21:30 am »
Morning Martin

Hope you are well, long time no parlez so to speak!

I have owned Weller's for close to 30 years even in a non professional capacity and always found them to be very consistently good.
Three years ago my work horse decided to go the way fo the dodo, so while looking for a suitable replacement one of the chaps that work with us suggested I try his JBC stand-alone station for a day, to say I was impressed would be an understatement.
Among the other brands I tried were Hakko, Ersa & Metcal all had their plus points.

For myself performance, reliability, ease of use, tip types, styles and availability are all at the top of my desirability list.

After a month or so of serious benchmarking I settled on the JBC, not because the others were not up scratch because they were, I just preferred the 'feel' and in use of the JBC, the display and having hands like dinner plates I found the JBC had the ergonomic touch.

Since then, I have further explored the JBC 'back catalogue' so to speak along with some custom designed tips for some projects I'm working on. Just love the sheer amount of tip selection as well.

At this point in time personally I have six stations (two stand-alone stations) air desolders, one large, one small large and small smt tweezers, micro soldering station, hot air with FPGA etc removal facility. Plus, one of the larger under board info red heater platers and multiple circuit board size holders plus a really neat solder pot.  One tip is something like 0.25mm.

I do use these devices every day and wouldn't be out them, they just make day to day life so much easier, and produce neater more reliable joints.
Cost is fair with some of the models and more expensive with others, if you pick the right station and tips you can get started well for around 330 euros I feel. Certain JBC equipment is over priced no question. However the CDS or CDB are superb units in the own right, tips range from 10 euros (popular units are between 18-34) to what ever you are willing to pay for a custom design.
Tip changing, cleaning and heat up time are all first class, in the last three years I have only replaced two of the most common tips I use C245-903, C245-001 and these were 18 euros each or so. Many, many hours on each one of those without question.
One of my best purchases in EE

Apologies for the state of the work beneches I am pretty busy at the moment.


« Last Edit: March 20, 2023, 07:52:09 pm by Sighound36 »
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Offline VanBudd

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Re: Soldering Station, JBC, Ersa or Weller : Decsions, Decisions...
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2023, 02:14:40 pm »
I tested a lot of different soldering stations, Ersa, Weller, Metcal, Pace, JBC, DIY-Projects.

Ersa is in my opinion a little bit behind from the technology side, Metcal is really expensive and Pace is ok, but i didnt like the handle and the really long tips.
For Weller i really like the WMRT/WMRP handles, but the stations are quite expensive.

If its totally budget based then there is this DIY Project: http://kair.us/projects/weller/index.html
I actually use one of them for years now with the weller tweezers and a DIY WMRP handle from the project.
You get the same performance as the real Weller station (i compared them side by side). (at least not noticeable for me)
With the 3D printed handle and one tip you maybe pay 70-90€ and have a small solid unit.


Theres also the unisolder project: https://github.com/sparkybg/UniSolder-5.2
A open source project where you can power all kinds of different handles from different brands.

I built two of them, its a really cool project but not really cheap and you need alot of time.


But i definitely would recommend a analog JBC Station with the 245 and the 210 handle with your preferred tips.
You can look for used station and handles, there often really cheap.

I use JBC at work and at home for years now and in my opinion its hard to beat.
For about 300-400€ (new Station+245+210+tips) you have a really solid station for every situation, big bulky and tiny SMD soldering.
If you care about your tips then they last very very long, some tips i use on a weekly base for years and theyre still good.

« Last Edit: March 20, 2023, 03:30:34 pm by VanBudd »
 

Offline Shock

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Re: Soldering Station, JBC, Ersa or Weller : Decsions, Decisions...
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2023, 02:43:25 pm »
After a month or so of serious benchmarking I settled on the JBC

Not much into JBC, but nice setup you have there including the tip selection.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 
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Offline Shock

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Re: Soldering Station, JBC, Ersa or Weller : Decsions, Decisions...
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2023, 04:25:30 pm »
Your brand options among the faster heating stations are Metcal, Pace, JBC, Ersa, Hakko, Weller, Thermaltronics. Depends on where you want to start and where you want to end up. Personally I prefer stations that can take both irons and tweezers so at least you can run them later if you wish.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline _Wim_

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Re: Soldering Station, JBC, Ersa or Weller : Decsions, Decisions...
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2023, 06:58:50 pm »
I have the analog JBC "Weidinger Edition" at home. Performance is the same as the digital version and I think it's hard to beat for the price.

Same here, happy user for many years.
 

Online Martin72Topic starter

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Re: Soldering Station, JBC, Ersa or Weller : Decsions, Decisions...
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2023, 08:22:25 pm »
Hi,

Thank you for all your inputs so far  :)

I have actually already said goodbye to ersa....
Remain JBC or Weller, so current.
And actually I'm leaning more towards JBC as it is a complete cartridge system.
Which makes me a little unsure right now though:
I would also like to buy a little later SMD soldering tweezers for it, but there seems to be none for the slightly cheaper stations ?
That again is the advantage of the Weller WX station, there you can connect everything from soldering tweezers to 200W soldering iron.

If its totally budget based then there is this DIY Project: http://kair.us/projects/weller/index.html
I actually use one of them for years now with the weller tweezers and a DIY WMRP handle from the project.

I already got one....Nice thing but not the final solution and when it takes some money, I´ll spend some money for it.
Currently more for a JBC Station but the SMD tweezer thing makes me unsure...
Edit:
Example:
https://www.welectron.com/JBC-CD-2BQF-Digital-Soldering-Station
No SMD tweezer for it... :P
« Last Edit: March 20, 2023, 08:29:05 pm by Martin72 »
 

Offline jjoonathan

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Re: Soldering Station, JBC, Ersa or Weller : Decisions, Decisions...
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2023, 08:56:19 pm »
I have JBC  "postman broke it, postman payed for it" edition, which provides excellent value for the price.
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Soldering Station, JBC, Ersa or Weller : Decisions, Decisions...
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2023, 09:25:02 pm »
We have a forum for this, many discussions covered already: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/

- If you want cheap but quality small tweezers (eg 1206 or less SMD), Hakko FX1003 is the lowest total cost.
- Tweezers + iron in one, probably makes sense to go JBC. But yes you will pay a premium for that support.
- If you want best thermal performance, 80W Metcal.

SDG has reviewed almost everything: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/other-blog-specific/the-sdg-electronics-soldering-station-comparisonshootout-thread/
« Last Edit: March 20, 2023, 09:27:50 pm by thm_w »
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Offline Shock

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Re: Soldering Station, JBC, Ersa or Weller : Decisions, Decisions...
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2023, 12:01:15 am »
The Metcal MX5200 (2 channel station) supports their standard (slim) and micro iron, tweezers and a vacuum desoldering handpiece, does require shop air for that though.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline Xandinator

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Re: Soldering Station, JBC, Ersa or Weller : Decisions, Decisions...
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2023, 12:04:13 am »
very satisfied with a WXA portable setup, imho Weller has the best and most flexible stand setup - may sound silly but makes actual sense to me, beyond a certain quality threshold ergonomics is the deal maker/breaker. currently in the wait for a new WXair I most probably would consider buying the WXsmart if I were to go down that route again, even if it carries a hefty price tag...
 

Offline mastershake

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Re: Soldering Station, JBC, Ersa or Weller : Decisions, Decisions...
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2023, 03:57:43 am »
from an ex weller user and person i now use jbc and i dont think i would look back, i also love the fact i can use other brands like say aixun in places and situations where i dont want to take my expensive units. not sure you will ever be moving yours around but i tend to do a lot of on site work and i need stuff i can take with me. i even just got a small micro pen type soldering thing that directly takes 115 cartridges. the amount of choices are nearly endless imo. on my personal desk and on my personal desk at the office i use the real jbc. i give aixun units to the guys they like them a lot and use them every day and i dont have to worry about them breaking them or getting knocked off a desk etc (dont ask lol) etc
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Soldering Station, JBC, Ersa or Weller : Decisions, Decisions...
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2023, 11:08:07 am »
Where it comes the SMD tweezers: look at Ersa Chip tool. I have used the JBC one in the past but found these are super wobbly. The Ersa Chip tool OTOH is solid and will pick up the smallest parts without the tips getting misaligned.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline John Coloccia

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Re: Soldering Station, JBC, Ersa or Weller : Decisions, Decisions...
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2023, 07:02:12 pm »
Very satisfied with my JBC soldering station.
 

Offline hj

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Re: Soldering Station, JBC, Ersa or Weller : Decisions, Decisions...
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2023, 08:26:24 am »
was in the same situation like you some years ago. I guess choosing the right station is a very personal thing, so here are my personal experiences for what it's worth.

Everyone recommends JBC and most likely for very good reasons. However, I got a promo deal on an Ersa i-con 1 (not the nano or pico) that I could not let pass. When I pulled the trigger, I was still in doubt if I bought the right thing but once I started using it, I liked it very much and never looked back. For me the handle is perfect. Light, ergonomic, close to the soldering joint, silicone cable, what else would I want. Never got an issue with insufficient energy supply, 80w is plenty. Pb-free soldering is as smooth as Pb, never got a cold or sticky joints.

Heat up time is more than fast enough for me. I keep the station at 150 or 260 idle and it heats up to 360 in no time. Tip changing is easy with the plastic collar or the tweezers. Admittedly, JBC has the better technique but for me changing tips is a no brainer. Let the iron cool off, take a break, grab a coffee and come back.

With that being said, I am no SMD soldering type of guy. Choose the right tool for the job and if only a speciality JBC tip get the job done, the choice is clear.

One thing I really like though is the detached handle holder. If I remember correctly, the compact JBC stations are integrated, right? I use to have that lightweight silicone holder right beside my right hand like a mouse so that I can grab the handle without distraction and if I don't need the iron any more, I just tug the stand to the far corner of my desk but without needing to touch the heavy control unit.

Finally, I have been socialised with Ersa irons since my childhood so maybe I am biased here and of course Ersa is a german manufacturer in the lovely little city of Wertheim. Support our locals :) My first unregulated iron still runs on the first Ersadur tip and don't ask me how I abused that thing. The 102 tips are cheap and should last me a lifetime.

So, there you go... Useless wisdom of an old guy, thanks for reading ;)
« Last Edit: March 22, 2023, 08:41:39 am by hj »
 

Offline 4thDoctorWhoFan

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Re: Soldering Station, JBC, Ersa or Weller : Decisions, Decisions...
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2023, 10:16:55 am »
I like Metcal.  I have the MX-500 station.  Super fast heat up time, super quick tip change, super large variety of tips to choose from & can have both soldering iron & tweezers connected at same time.  I have never met a solder joint this station could not handle.
 

Online Martin72Topic starter

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Re: Soldering Station, JBC, Ersa or Weller : Decisions, Decisions...
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2023, 11:05:04 pm »
It's not easy... 8)
I'm still leaning towards the JBC, the cartridge system is very appealing, because the heating time is not a completely unimportant thing, especially if you have to solder on high-mass surfaces.
The ersa does not have that and the weller WX/MX system only partially.
On the other hand, I need a SMD soldering tweezers in the medium term.
And I'm still not figured out for which JBC stations the tweezers are suitable.
With Weller this is not a question as I know it myself at work.
I have there the WX-2 with the SMD tweezers, the 120W soldering iron, the 200W soldering iron and of course the small with the cartridge system.
However, all this costs wide over 1000€ together, I would like to spend a maximum of 600€. :P
The linked JBC for 400 would meet exactly my nerve - But there is no SMD tweezers for it... :(

Offline wraper

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Re: Soldering Station, JBC, Ersa or Weller : Decisions, Decisions...
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2023, 11:41:28 pm »
However, I got a promo deal on an Ersa i-con 1 (not the nano or pico) that I could not let pass. When I pulled the trigger, I was still in doubt if I bought the right thing but once I started using it, I liked it very much and never looked back. For me the handle is perfect. Light, ergonomic, close to the soldering joint, silicone cable, what else would I want. Never got an issue with insufficient energy supply, 80w is plenty. Pb-free soldering is as smooth as Pb, never got a cold or sticky joints.
Peak power is actually almost 150W, I don't remember for how long it holds exactly but it was more than a few seconds when I tested it a while ago. Average power which station can deliver has little of practical meaning for actual soldering and not boiling a cup of water. Also Ersa has a 250W i-Tool HighPower, if usual i-tool is too weak.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2023, 11:58:52 pm by wraper »
 

Offline wraper

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Re: Soldering Station, JBC, Ersa or Weller : Decsions, Decisions...
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2023, 11:55:46 pm »
Ersa has no cartridge based soldering stations, so do not buy it.
That is very simplistic view.. Ersa performance is very good, and tips are inexpensive. It is also German brand and Martin can buy tips anywhere. Only problem is that changing tips is not that fast as with hot swap cartridge based designs. And that is something that can be important or not.
Not being able to change tips quickly is not entirely true. It depends on which Ersa station you are using.

My recommendation would be to go for the 'older' Ersa RDS80 soldering station and the 80W basic tool that can use the 832 / 842 series of tips. Those tips are indestructable. You simply don't need to buy spare tips ever. Some of my tips are 20 years old and work like new. I have not come across a brand of soldering irons that has better tips than Ersa. I take the ability of a tip to pick up solder anywhere I need it over heating up time or ease of changing it. The Ersa 832/842  tips use a spring & hook system that allows quick changing and Ersa has special pliers (not expensive) to change the tips quickly. When putting a board together I typically use 3 to 4 different kinds of tips.

I also worked with the newer Ersa I-Con series but I don't like the fact that the tips need to be screwed on. IMHO that is a step back. If you do go for the I-con series, then get a screw cap for each tip to make tip changes a bit quicker. The tips click into the screw cap so getting a hot tip out is iffy. My guess is that the I-Con series is more usefull at places where you don't need to change tips while working on a project.

I have worked with Weller and JBC as well and while having the heating element closer to the tip is nice, I noticed that the tips just aren't as good at picking up solder compared to Ersa.
I don't see how fiddling with that spring crap is faster than unscrewing on i-con. Also RDS-80 is a really outdated non ESD safe station with relatively poor performance and which costs way too much for what it is. I-tool tips are extremely durable too, the only way I killed them was soldering in production scale (tens of thousands solder joints). The only tip which needs care IME is a blade tip. If you apply too much force it the thin pointy end, it may buckle a bit, iron plating can get damaged and then it can fail very fast once solder gets to the copper core.
 
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