Author Topic: Someone ask me to buy which dmm, Keysight 34465A or Keithley DMM6500  (Read 4622 times)

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Offline hwj-d

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Interesting question for the "hobbyist", i think.

For this reason i wanted to put this question to the 6.5 digit lm399 based dmm's and my very subjective answer to it here also to the discussion:

Quote
I prefer the 6500 dmm, because its connectivity and programmable measurements and gui. It's the more modern concept. Also you can use a scannercard.

The 34465A is the more robust well developed dmm, has acal, very easy to operate via buttons on the front panel, has extended mathematical extensions. But it is what you get, gui not expandable, as far as I know. For many that's it, that's what they wont.

My problem is, that I fall in love with ltz1000 references, dreaming to build, to learn, my own dmm's, buy expensive resistors, and so on. The 6500 suits me a little bit better, but actually I would need an 8,5 digit dmm for it.

I was advised against the 7.5 digit Keysight by a more professional, because its drifts at different ambient temperatures in the 1-10 ppm measuring range. The manual acal must be used far too often. That was too for the 34465A.

But that is if you go to the limits of those instruments caused of building such references.

Now my dmm 6500 has no bluescreens anymore, and i believe it it will be even more robust in the future.

So, it depends of what type of "hobbyist" you are. If you need something robust, compact like a handheld even with more possibilities, take the 34465A.

If you are keen to experiment, keen to program, the joy of measuring also sometimes becomes an end in itself, take the 6500,

and note the price difference...  ;)

What do you think about that?
« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 08:22:58 am by hwj-d »
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Offline MrFox

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Re: Someone ask me to buy which dmm, Keysight 34465A or Keithley DMM6500
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2019, 06:43:39 pm »
A few important features made me choose the 6500 as my workhorse dmm, each hobbyist have different needs but those are things to consider when making a checklist...

Working with precision shunts, the 1 ohm range is very nice.

For my high power leds projects, the 12V diode max is much more usable.

The digitizer specs are far superior on the keithley, but admitedly only useful for special cases where scopes don't have the resolution/accuracy.  For me it's a  very narrow use case.

Larger buffer is great for long runnning acquisition, testing something for 24h at 1 NPLC is possible.

The switcher card expansion is compatible with the old model, easy to find on ebay.

Naming things and entering values is so much better with a touchscreen.

In canada at least, the keithley is a lot less expensive than the keysight.

On the negative:

For simple functions as a plain multimeter, direct buttons are probably more usable.

10A is only in the back.

Firmware is very young and needs improvements.

Graphing crashed on me twice. Never happened again though.

Buffer management is a little confusing because of the fragmentation, I suppose it will be solved in a later firmware.

 
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Offline hwj-d

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Re: Someone ask me to buy which dmm, Keysight 34465A or Keithley DMM6500
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2019, 08:03:34 pm »
Thanks MrFox, for this additional points.
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Offline tautech

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Re: Someone ask me to buy which dmm, Keysight 34465A or Keithley DMM6500
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2019, 09:39:35 pm »
Irrespective of brand/model, doesn't budget play a major factor in a decision ?
And if it's high enough, new and warranty vs 2nd hand ?

Say if you spend 500 Euro on a 2nd hand unit and a new 6.5 digit bench DMM is 689 Euro........
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Offline hwj-d

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Re: Someone ask me to buy which dmm, Keysight 34465A or Keithley DMM6500
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2019, 11:37:50 pm »
@tautech

Interesting.
On Topic: Keysight 34465A or Keithley DMM6500.
Which one of them, new, do you have for 689€ ?
 ;D
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Offline nctnico

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Re: Someone ask me to buy which dmm, Keysight 34465A or Keithley DMM6500
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2019, 12:04:47 am »
According to some Youtube videos the DMM6500 seems to have a touch screen. I have a 34461A which is related to the 34465A. When I bought the 34461A Tektronix only had older models but the DMM6500 looks mighty nice to operate so I'm not sure I would buy the 34461A again if I'd had to choose today.
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Online DaJMasta

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Re: Someone ask me to buy which dmm, Keysight 34465A or Keithley DMM6500
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2019, 01:21:01 am »
According to some Youtube videos the DMM6500 seems to have a touch screen. I have a 34461A which is related to the 34465A. When I bought the 34461A Tektronix only had older models but the DMM6500 looks mighty nice to operate so I'm not sure I would buy the 34461A again if I'd had to choose today.

Would be interested to see it on video, but similar thoughts.  Lots of extra memory and I think I do prefer the GUI/looks of the Keithley, and the programmability I've seen demonstrated looks very nice.  While the firmware is younger, my guess is that it borrows a lot from their earlier 7.5 digit meters in the same GUI, if not almost everything, so my initial assumption would be that it feels pretty mature to use.
 

Offline kj7e

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Re: Someone ask me to buy which dmm, Keysight 34465A or Keithley DMM6500
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2019, 01:42:11 am »
I have both a 34465A and a DMM7510.  The DMM6500 UI is very similar to the 7510, between the two I would pick the DMM6500 as its much more entertaining for the hobbyist.  I believe the difference in performance between the two is minimal.  That said, I love the 34465A, glad I have both.
 
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Online TheSteve

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Re: Someone ask me to buy which dmm, Keysight 34465A or Keithley DMM6500
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2019, 01:47:34 am »
If you want a super stable meter with excellent build quality that just works get the Keysight. If you don't mind the occasional crash then the DMM6500 sure seems to offer the most bang for the buck. It doesn't appear to have the highest build quality but the feature set and price sure make it appealing. I would think the firmware will become more stable overtime as well.

edit - I think kj7e is right, for the hobbiest a DMM6500 would be more fun.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2019, 01:50:48 am by TheSteve »
VE7FM
 
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Online ebclr

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Re: Someone ask me to buy which dmm, Keysight 34465A or Keithley DMM6500
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2019, 02:51:19 am »
"have the highest build quality   :palm:


The Keithley quality is state of art
 

Offline Faith

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Re: Someone ask me to buy which dmm, Keysight 34465A or Keithley DMM6500
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2019, 04:11:23 am »
Used to own the 34465A, played with the DMM6500 a little bit... the 34465A seems to reach stability a lot faster (even compared to the 34470A)... but I would buy the DMM6500 if I needed another bench DMM without doubt.

Really like the scripting of the DMM6500/7510!~

For hobby definitely 100% would recommend the DMM6500... much more fun to use haha. Even if the 34465A gives better readings (which isn't really by a lot), for hobby use it doesn't matter.

Only annoying thing is 10A input at the back... but really that is what handheld DMM / clamp meter / etc is for so whatever.

Anyway best is you just demo and try both and see which one you like to use best!


Edit: Just a small note, 34465A now comes with DIG option standard (50,000rdgs/sec) on latest firmware and MEM (2m memory points) is frequently given out for free too.

So it is now cheaper to own fully unlocked than it used to be, but still a very expensive DMM.

Also another consideration is support in your country.

Where I live Keysight support is super... but almost all companies under Danaher (Fluke, Tektronix, etc) have really super crap reputation for their support.

So think about that too.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2019, 04:18:19 am by Faith »
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Offline Inverted18650

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Re: Someone ask me to buy which dmm, Keysight 34465A or Keithley DMM6500
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2019, 04:38:44 am »
I just bought a DMM7510 and its so much fun! Moreover, its such a versatile machine with deep bandwitdh and am amazing array of features. Someone recently told me, "its like a 7.5 digit digital oscilloscope and more" and they were BANG ON. Keithley DMM6500 is they way to go mate, that's even before we talk about KickStart and the added functionality it brings. You will go from "just a hobby guy" to being able to send accurate data with graphs of every characteristic you need to make it truly professional. Tempco, deviation, histograms, etc etc...it measures everything you need right out of the box (after an 1.5 hr warm up) expect inductance... its the only meter you will need on your bench

literally got here today*
« Last Edit: February 06, 2019, 04:45:38 am by Inverted18650 »
 
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Offline nctnico

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Re: Someone ask me to buy which dmm, Keysight 34465A or Keithley DMM6500
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2019, 11:30:58 am »
"have the highest build quality   :palm:

The Keithley quality is state of art
Euuhhh... Keithley is Tektronix and Tektronix is owned by Danaher. Nowadays Tektronix rebadges a lot of low end stuff.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline MrFox

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Re: Someone ask me to buy which dmm, Keysight 34465A or Keithley DMM6500
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2019, 03:44:34 pm »
"have the highest build quality   :palm:

The Keithley quality is state of art
Euuhhh... Keithley is Tektronix and Tektronix is owned by Danaher. Nowadays Tektronix rebadges a lot of low end stuff.
But the 6500 is not a rebadged low end stuff. It's clearly a derivative of their 7510 and SMUs.

Whatever tek does OEM is usually obvious.
 
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Offline hwj-d

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Re: Someone ask me to buy which dmm, Keysight 34465A or Keithley DMM6500
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2019, 04:23:52 pm »
The instrument does not deserve a bad reputation, nor does it actually deserve to badly measuring because of remedyable shortcomings.

Edit: But frankly sayd, the 7510 is a completely different house in terms of measuring and technical construction.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2019, 04:33:46 pm by hwj-d »
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Offline kj7e

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Re: Someone ask me to buy which dmm, Keysight 34465A or Keithley DMM6500
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2019, 04:36:52 pm »
"have the highest build quality   :palm:

The Keithley quality is state of art
Euuhhh... Keithley is Tektronix and Tektronix is owned by Danaher. Nowadays Tektronix rebadges a lot of low end stuff.
But the 6500 is not a rebadged low end stuff. It's clearly a derivative of their 7510 and SMUs.

Whatever tek does OEM is usually obvious.

While the 6500 and 7510 share almost the same UI, the hardware is not in the same class.  It's clear the DMM6500 hardware was built to a price point with the Keysight 3446[15]a target in mind.  The 6500 is very fine meter and I'm sure will endure for many years, but I also believe the Keysight equivalent has the edge in both hardware and firmware quality/stability.  If I was in the market now, I would still pick the DMM6500 over the 34465a due to the more advanced UI while still having very comparable specifications.

 
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Offline dmm2018

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Re: Someone ask me to buy which dmm, Keysight 34465A or Keithley DMM6500
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2019, 06:23:08 pm »
Keysight 34465A/34470A has higher uncertainty in low resistance measurement.

For example:

[1Ω measurement uncertainty]
Keysight 34465A/34470A: ~0.4%
DMM6500 uncertainty: ~0.03%

[0.1Ω measurement uncertainty]
Keysight 34465A/34470A: ~4%
DMM6500 uncertainty: ~0.2%

[0.01Ω measurement uncertainty]
Keysight 34465A/34470A: ~40%
DMM6500 uncertainty: ~2%

[0.001Ω measurement uncertainty]
Keysight 34465A/34470A: ~400%
DMM6500 uncertainty: ~20%


Where I live Keysight support is super... but almost all companies under Danaher (Fluke, Tektronix, etc) have really super crap reputation for their support.
Agree... Keysight support at where I live is very good... but the support (after sales) of those claim to be Tektronix distributor is not that good.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2019, 12:20:45 pm by dmm2018 »
 

Offline HighVoltage

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Re: Someone ask me to buy which dmm, Keysight 34465A or Keithley DMM6500
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2019, 06:41:35 pm »
I have the 34465A, the 34470A the DMM7510 and since Christmas the DMM6500
They are all really good meters.

But, right now I prefer the Keithley DMM6500, since it is the only meter I have bought with spot on calibration for voltage and resistance.

It even confirmed one of my Burster 200 mOhm calibration resistors to 0.20000x Ohm (Wow, what a surprise).
This would not work on either Keysight or the DMM7510.

But I still would keep all four of them!
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Offline nctnico

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Re: Someone ask me to buy which dmm, Keysight 34465A or Keithley DMM6500
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2019, 10:43:15 pm »
IMHO you should use special meters to measure in milli-Ohm territory. A good LCR meter or low resistance meter would be more suitable.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline dmm2018

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Re: Someone ask me to buy which dmm, Keysight 34465A or Keithley DMM6500
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2019, 05:29:23 am »
At TESTEQUITY:

Keysight 34465A >> USD1454
Keithley DMM6500 >> USD1140

Is the 1Ω range (test current = 10mA) circuit difficult to be implemented?
 

Offline MikeP

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Re: Someone ask me to buy which dmm, Keysight 34465A or Keithley DMM6500
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2019, 08:12:47 pm »
For example:

[1Ω measurement uncertainty]
Keysight 34465A/34470A: ~0.4%
DMM6500 uncertainty: ~0.03%

[0.1Ω measurement uncertainty]
Keysight 34465A/34470A: ~4%
DMM6500 uncertainty: ~0.2%

[0.01Ω measurement uncertainty]
Keysight 34465A/34470A: ~40%
DMM6500 uncertainty: ~2%

[0.001Ω measurement uncertainty]
Keysight 34465A/34470A: ~400%
DMM6500 uncertainty: ~20%

Where did you get this information?
 

Online Mr. Scram

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Re: Someone ask me to buy which dmm, Keysight 34465A or Keithley DMM6500
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2019, 09:08:53 pm »
At TESTEQUITY:

Keysight 34465A >> USD1454
Keithley DMM6500 >> USD1140

Is the 1Ω range (test current = 10mA) circuit difficult to be implemented?
The prices make it a no brainer, unless you have requirements only the Keysight can fulfil.
 

Offline MrFox

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Re: Someone ask me to buy which dmm, Keysight 34465A or Keithley DMM6500
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2019, 10:24:51 pm »
IMHO you should use special meters to measure in milli-Ohm territory. A good LCR meter or low resistance meter would be more suitable.
I really wanted one until I saw the prices.

The bench LCR meters that are anywhere near the resolution and accuracy of the dmm6500 low resistance ranges seem to be very expensive.
 

Offline Joel_l

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Re: Someone ask me to buy which dmm, Keysight 34465A or Keithley DMM6500
« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2019, 05:17:56 pm »
I was about to pull the trigger on a Keysight 34465A when I ran across this thread. It steered me to the DMM6500 instead. My initial investigation was driving me towards the Siglent SDM3065X and the 34465a. Specmanship wise, the DMM6500 just seemed to be a clear winner at a price point between the two. I've had it a few days now and am still getting familiar with its operation, but I'm pleased with the purchase. Lot more bang for the buck. I was looking at the 34465A with the memory and digitizer upgrade which would add $$$$$$.

The only downside to me is what has been mentioned, 10A current only on the back.
 

Offline HighVoltage

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Re: Someone ask me to buy which dmm, Keysight 34465A or Keithley DMM6500
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2019, 10:04:48 pm »
In voltage mode, the DMM6500 is a reliable 6 1/2 digit meter and it stays stable without noticable drift.
Here I was testing a very stable 10.000,040 V source.
The calibration of my DMM6500 is about 20 uV off, which is about the same offset at my DMM7510.
 
Otherwise it has proven to be very reliable so far.
The pk/pk span is about 27 uV
« Last Edit: March 31, 2019, 10:11:41 pm by HighVoltage »
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