Someone ask me to buy which dmm, Keysight 34465A or Keithley DMM6500

[Wintel]

Picture copied from post above:



On my meter (latest firmware), the average changes from 9.999999 to 10.00000 volt when I let a voltage source drift upwards, and reverts from 10.xxxxx to 9.xxxxxx when the voltage passes 10.0 volt downwards. This is because the print format is 7 digits with variable floating point. This must result from the programmer not knowing the instrument's specifications and it's intended use. No instrument designer would present a 6.5 digit DMM without a 7.5 digit average for 10 volt DC.

A clear sign of the programmer's total lack of knowledge or thinking, is the apparent resolution of Peak to Peak. Since one can assume that this number is a subtraction of Minimum from Maximum with a maximum resolution of 1 microvolt in this meter class' typical 20 bit or so ADC), it's apparent resolution in picovolts (4.884417 microvolt is 4,884,417 picovolt) is meaningless and looks embarrassing. Similar cases can be argued for all values presented.

This screen needs reprogramming.

Does DMM6500 have the same print format problem in the 1V and 100V range?

[hwj-d]

...
On my meter (latest firmware), the average changes from 9.999999 to 10.00000 volt when I let a voltage source drift upwards, and reverts from 10.xxxxx to 9.xxxxxx when the voltage passes 10.0 volt downwards. This is because the print format is 7 digits with variable floating point. This must result from the programmer not knowing the instrument's specifications and it's intended use. No instrument designer would present a 6.5 digit DMM without a 7.5 digit average for 10 volt DC.

A clear sign of the programmer's total lack of knowledge or thinking, is the apparent resolution of Peak to Peak. Since one can assume that this number is a subtraction of Minimum from Maximum with a maximum resolution of 1 microvolt in this meter class' typical 20 bit or so ADC), it's apparent resolution in picovolts (4.884417 microvolt is 4,884,417 picovolt) is meaningless and looks embarrassing. Similar cases can be argued for all values presented.

This screen needs reprogramming.

The DMM has some issues not only with his GUI yes. We are all waiting for the overdue Firmwareupdate. For this, I specally posted the first screenshot. Have you seen it?

For my part, I can handle this innovative DMM in such a way that I get the information I need. My Keysight 34461A has other similar drawbacks in its GUI also, its capabilities, and its very own high temperature drift, which makes me prefer the much more flexible DMM6500 all the time.

[Electro Fan]

There was some discussion awhile back about doing V and I measurements at the same time; seems like this is the basic idea....

https://buzz.tek.com/c/tektronix-smu-bundle?x=m5R2qC&mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiTUdVNE16WXdPVGhsTVdRMyIsInQiOiJmaWptVU9hcmdnM2llTnU1UjVRcityWWxkWXhobXNlYmhuaVlmaGlGZUZpMlQ4K3ZocjdBak5TNkJCN2FcLzhzVDladnFIbkE0dm1qelVaTTNEUjZPY0pJZFljMHkremdNQTBuZWhoR1hSdjJkalwveTN5cmxwXC9jN1FSUDNNR1ZBMSJ9

[Electro Fan]

Still kicking around the idea of a bench DMM.  Siglent 3055 looks pretty attractive in terms of price but when you start looking at all the specs (measurement ranges, etc) and all the features/functions the Keithley 6500 is also very attractive.

Question on 4 wire measurements:

.... what are the chances that in order to fully utilize the low Ohms measurement of the 6500 you really need something like this?

https://www.newark.com/keithley/5806/lead-set-2-clip-test-leads-banana/dp/59T8473?MER=bn_level5_5NP_EngagementRecSingleItem_3

$355 (vs. eBay version?) kind of ups overall price for the $1140 for the 6500

What are the chances that these would somehow support the accuracy of the 6500?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-4-Wire-Kelvin-Test-Clips-with-4mm-connectors-for-the-AE20218-Milliohm-Meter/264294515613?hash=item3d892e439d:g:HDAAAOSwvXZcvj1P

Maybe the 5806 earns $355 for industrial strength and the eBay Kelvin clips would provide good measurements if handled gently....?

[Electro Fan]

Or maybe these?

http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/bk-precision/accessories/test-leads-probes-adapters-clips/kelvin-clip-probes-with-four-banana-plugs-tldk1.htm

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/2721855.pdf?_ga=2.58480426.1872119853.1570314999-121656159.1570314999

[Mr. Scram]

The beauty of four wire measurements is that you take the resistance of the cabling out of the equation. What remains are more subtle effects like tempco.

[Electro Fan]

The beauty of four wire measurements is that you take the resistance of the cabling out of the equation. What remains are more subtle effects like tempco.

Roger that but does that mean the ability to deal with tempco accounts for the difference between $350 Kelvin clip leads and $50 Kelvin clip leads?  What measurement differences would you expect to see when using the 6500 with the $350 leads vs the $50 or $25 leads?  Thx

[Mr. Scram]

Roger that but does that mean the ability to deal with tempco accounts for the difference between $350 Kelvin clip leads and $50 Kelvin clip leads?  What measurement differences would you expect to see when using the 6500 with the $350 leads vs the $50 or $25 leads?  Thx

I would honestly not expect to see much if any difference. The DMM6500 is an awesome DMM but 6.5 digits is not quite metrology grade yet. What you're looking at is likely some difference in build quality but mostly a brand premium. I'd go with the Extech or BK one as those are companies with something to lose if they screw up too badly.

[tautech]

The beauty of four wire measurements is that you take the resistance of the cabling out of the equation. What remains are more subtle effects like tempco.

So does Rel that any good DMM has, that's the whole purpose of it.

Roger that but does that mean the ability to deal with tempco accounts for the difference between $350 Kelvin clip leads and $50 Kelvin clip leads?  What measurement differences would you expect to see when using the 6500 with the $350 leads vs the $50 or $25 leads?  Thx

What matters more is measurement repeatability, Tempco can be accounted for by refreshing the Rel setting periodically.

[sergioag]

I just pulled the trigger on a DMM6500. Had a 34461A, loved it. But it died within warranty. Seller was no longer selling Keysight equipment and referred to their supplier, who also was no longer selling and referred to another supplier, who never answered. Contacted a local representative and they absolutely refused to service it under warranty. They estimated that a board change would cost me about $1200, so I passed. No more Keysight for me, hence I'm trying Keithley this time. I don't expect any support, but as long as the multimeter works I'm happy.

[Electro Fan]

I just pulled the trigger on a DMM6500. Had a 34461A, loved it. But it died within warranty. Seller was no longer selling Keysight equipment and referred to their supplier, who also was no longer selling and referred to another supplier, who never answered. Contacted a local representative and they absolutely refused to service it under warranty. They estimated that a board change would cost me about $1200, so I passed. No more Keysight for me, hence I'm trying Keithley this time. I don't expect any support, but as long as the multimeter works I'm happy.

Any thoughts on the DMM6500 after having used it for awhile?

[sergioag]

Any thoughts on the DMM6500 after having used it for awhile?

Yes, a few. But it's been too little time to fully use it. But in summary:
- No blue screens, reboots, or other problems.
- Measure rate is really fast.
- The UI is ok, but I still prefer hardware buttons. On the other hand, I can't think of a way of designing hardware buttons for such a broad range of functionality without making it really complex or making the instrument bigger. Guess this was a factor when designing the instrument.
- Accuracy in DCV is about what I expected, as crosschecked with my various references (AD584L, LT1021BCN8-5, LTZ1000ACH).
- Haven't been able to explore too much the graphing capabilities, but the touchscreen really excels on this.
- Haven't tried programming yet.
- Haven't tried Ethernet or USB connectivity.
- Yes, it does feel like a huge upgrade compared to my dead 34461A.

Hope this helps a bit.

[MathWizard]

I was about to pull the trigger on a Keysight 34465A when I ran across this thread. It steered me to the DMM6500 instead. My initial investigation was driving me towards the Siglent SDM3065X and the 34465a. Specmanship wise, the DMM6500 just seemed to be a clear winner at a price point between the two. I've had it a few days now and am still getting familiar with its operation, but I'm pleased with the purchase. Lot more bang for the buck. I was looking at the 34465A with the memory and digitizer upgrade which would add $$$$$$.

The only downside to me is what has been mentioned, 10A current only on the back.

Hmm so for me the 34465A and DMM6500 are pretty similar, and I was afraid of the touchscreen getting dirty all the time. But the Keysights don't even have dual display, thats not good.

But yeah the DMM6500 is priced more like the 34461A, and with better Amps/Ohms.

So what's all the extra feautures tho over the Keysight's ? Aren't they loaded with features ? So what all else does the Keithley do ?

It sound like the DMM6500 can better act as multiple DMMs (so since I won't have many, I better consider that too)

Keeping under 2000CAD means I could get 1 a lot faster.


How do people find the screens hold up ? Both for dirt, and for if stuff like this breaks, if you don't have a warrenty, how expensive is it too actually fix these , if parts are even retail ?

[ercapoccia]

I was about to order a second Brymen BM869S for €175 just to have a second meter on the bench and i love my 869 and i saw that the DMM6500 is on sale for €855+vat from Welectron, it may be even cheaper if i ask for a discount and if i pay with bank transfer.
I need just a stable meter for some non critical precision measurement, i won't send it for calibration, i just want a meter i can trust for 10 years or so.
Any 6 1/2 counts meter would be an overkill, 5 and 1/2 is more than enough for my needs but if the better class meter is more trustworthy i'll be happy to pay the extra price.
The 34465A is a very nice meter but is 30/40% more expensive than the DMM6500 here in EU, the 34461a is just a little more expensive.
Would you guys get the Keithley over the Agilent 34461a? I have read that the DMM6500 has some software problem.

[HighVoltage]

All three of them (DMM6500, 34461A, 34465A) are really good bench meters. I have all three and like them all a lot. The 34461A is now my standard bench DMM and it works extremely well and is stable. And the many buttons get you to the desired measurement right away.

But the larger screen and the "touch" is something special with the DMM6500, once you are used to the interface.
The software has been improved slowly but steadily. My DMM6500 has not crashed anymore.

Maybe you get a loaner unit of each and test them out for your needs.
It more or less comes down to a personal flavor.
 

[ercapoccia]

I've been reading about those meters. The KS 34465A (€1300) seems the one with the best overall review but it is way out of my budget and my needs, it is almost 50% more expensive than the DMM6500(€860). The most popular seems the KS 34461A (€980).
There are not many post about the Keithley DMM seems that most people prefer the Agilent/Keysight alternative.
Is there a particular reason? Compatibility with the 34401?

[Mr. Scram]

I've been reading about those meters. The KS 34465A (€1300) seems the one with the best overall review but it is way out of my budget and my needs, it is almost 50% more expensive than the DMM6500(€860). The most popular seems the KS 34461A (€980).
There are not many post about the Keithley DMM seems that most people prefer the Agilent/Keysight alternative.
Is there a particular reason? Compatibility with the 34401?

There's an extensive thread about the DMM6500 with hundreds of posts. It's a ridiculously capable and useful machine. The touch screen and processing power and what it allows for really does make everything else feel outdated. What I don't like are things unrelated to the functionality of the machine, specifically fan noise and transformer hum. The DMM6500 has 34401A compatibility so that shouldn't be an issue.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-keithley-dmm6500/

[analogRF]

I've been reading about those meters. The KS 34465A (€1300) seems the one with the best overall review but it is way out of my budget and my needs, it is almost 50% more expensive than the DMM6500(€860). The most popular seems the KS 34461A (€980).
There are not many post about the Keithley DMM seems that most people prefer the Agilent/Keysight alternative.
Is there a particular reason? Compatibility with the 34401?

Keysight eBay store very often sells used but excellent 34465A for LESS than $1080 and free shipping anywhere.
I have never bought one and I am still comfortable with my trusty 34401A but 34465A can be had a lot cheaper than 1300 Euro

[ercapoccia]

Keysight eBay store very often sells used but excellent 34465A for LESS than $1080 and free shipping anywhere.
I have never bought one and I am still comfortable with my trusty 34401A but 34465A can be had a lot cheaper than 1300 Euro

Thank you for your feedback, i'll check it out. I was comparing price for brand new unit.

There's an extensive thread about the DMM6500 with hundreds of posts. It's a ridiculously capable and useful machine. The touch screen and processing power and what it allows for really does make everything else feel outdated. What I don't like are things unrelated to the functionality of the machine, specifically fan noise and transformer hum. The DMM6500 has 34401A compatibility so that shouldn't be an issue.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-keithley-dmm6500/

Thank you, i've read the whole thread. I meant there are fewer threads compared with the KS alternative. I watch many youtube videos about electronics and it's hard to see a Keithley, almost all the creators have KS/Agilent 3446x DMM

I really like the DMM6500 and for the price is very tempting.

[mawyatt]

We have a couple old 34401As, the oldest is an HP and over 30 years old, the other an Agilent is over 20 years old. Both acquired from eBay, and both still perform quite well (amazingly accurate considering their age and last cal decades ago!)! I can see why these instruments became the benchmark for 6 1/2 digit DVMs.

Because of these 34401A instruments we just purchased the Keysight 34465A figuring this has some of the DNA of the older 34401As. The 34465A is indeed the younger more capable brother of the 34401A, everything about this instrument is so well done and thought out.

Can't comment on the other instruments, but the 34465A is so nice and easy to use, no need for a user manual either!!

Best,

[Mr. Scram]

Thank you for your feedback, i'll check it out. I was comparing price for brand new unit.

Thank you, i've read the whole thread. I meant there are fewer threads compared with the KS alternative. I watch many youtube videos about electronics and it's hard to see a Keithley, almost all the creators have KS/Agilent 3446x DMM

I really like the DMM6500 and for the price is very tempting.

The DMM6500 is a much newer device so time has been on the side of the Keysights in regards to visibility. The Keysights also used to be pretty much the only choice if you were after a graphical DMM, especially if a decent brand was required. If you pay attention you can see the DMM6500 and its many cousins in a surprising amount of videos though. The coherent ecosystem Keithley is building is something I much appreciate. I feel the DMM6500 is probably a bit more modern but I don't think there really is a bad choice to be made either way.

[phs]

You might want to also compare the cost of calibration and repair, and where you would need to have that done, for each brand/model you're considering -- just in case...

[JimKnopf]

Hello,

i'm an unhappy owner of an UT-8803e DMM which is a very inaccurate device. I bought it early this year and it feels like a pain every time i use it. I can't trust any measurement. So i'm looking for a proper Bench DMM with higher accuracy. I have also mobile DMM like Brymen BM239+. But i want one on the Bench permanently.

I often use diode mode and continuity tester. The UT-8803e has a slow beeper and diode mode works only down to 16 ohm. All values below 16 Ohm it show me as an Err which means it's a short. My mobile DMM's work down to 4 ohm's in diode mode. What about the Keithley DMM6500? What is the lowest ohm value it shows before it indicates a short circuit? What about the continuity speed?

[Howardlong]

Two recent additions to the lab, after some years with a 34401A, have been both a 34465A and a DMM6500.

I have to say, of the two, I do prefer the DMM6500, predominantly because of the digitiser function... a function I never knew I needed. The touch screen UI of the digitiser on the DMM6500 lends itself far better to exploring the graphs compared to the 34465A, although overall the UI on the DMM6500 takes a bit more patience to get used to. For a start, the graphs are significantly larger on the DMM6500 display, and the screen resolution is much better (5" 800x480 vs 4.3" 480x272). I'd prefer it if the DMM6500 graph axes labelled themselves a bit better, using appropriately rounded values. I think the DMM6500 UI could still be improved upon: the UI thing does seem to be common theme on modern UIs at Tek/Keithley, they sometimes seem to have been designed and cobbled together by a committee, with little in the way of end user input (pun not intended).

In simple continuous measurement mode, I do prefer the display on the Keysight, it's a lovely clear display. The touch screen on the DMM6500 inevitably does attract finger marks of course.

The DMM6500 boots about twice as fast as the 34465A, but neither are anywhere near as fast as the 34401A, so the 34401A remains on the bench as a result!

So yes, if I were to select one of the two it'd be the DMM6500. Better still, order both.

[Howardlong]

Hello,

i'm an unhappy owner of an UT-8803e DMM which is a very inaccurate device. I bought it early this year and it feels like a pain every time i use it. I can't trust any measurement. So i'm looking for a proper Bench DMM with higher accuracy. I have also mobile DMM like Brymen BM239+. But i want one on the Bench permanently.

I often use diode mode and continuity tester. The UT-8803e has a slow beeper and diode mode works only down to 16 ohm. All values below 16 Ohm it show me as an Err which means it's a short. My mobile DMM's work down to 4 ohm's in diode mode. What about the Keithley DMM6500? What is the lowest ohm value it shows before it indicates a short circuit? What about the continuity speed?

Not sure what is meant by specifying resistance in diode mode, diodes are very non-linear. On the DMM6500 you can set the diode test current to 10uA, 100uA, 1mA or 10mA. Default is 1mA. You can also set the minimum and maximum voltage window: between 300mV and 800mV is default. 10V is the maximum.

Continuity speed is OK but I don't think it's quite as good as the 34401A or the 34465A.  On the DMM6500 you can set the trigger continuity to anywhere between 100m ohm to 1K ohm.

The beeper tone (for continuity or diode mode) of the DMM6500 sounds like a buzzer rather than a beep: I much prefer the simple beep of the HP/Keysights.