Author Topic: Soviet Oscilloscopes (Made in USSR)  (Read 7796 times)

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Offline imo

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Soviet Oscilloscopes (Made in USSR)
« on: June 17, 2018, 12:08:25 pm »
That's pretty cool. Most of that old Soviet stuff has a unique look to it, very industrial. That sort of stuff is not often seen over here.
Here is a list of several Soviet oscilloscopes found on youtube (reviews, teardowns, repairs):

LO-70   
LO-70   

OML-2     
OML-2M   

N313     

CI-1/C1-5     

C8-11     

C1-19b   

C1-??     

C1-49     
C1-49     

C1-54     

C1-55     

C1-65A   

C1-67     
C1-67     

C1-69     

C1-73     
C1-73     
C1-73     

C1-74     

C1-77     

C1-83     
C1-83     

C1-93     
C1-93     
C1-93     
C1-93     

C1-94     
C1-94     
C1-94     
C1-94     

C1-99     
C1-99     
C1-99     

C1-101   

C1-112   
C1-112A   

C1-114   

C1-117   

C1-118A   





« Last Edit: June 17, 2018, 06:47:45 pm by imo »
 
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Offline georgd

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Re: Soviet Oscilloscopes (Made in USSR)
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2018, 02:35:02 pm »
I bought my N313 scope in 1980 for $500 (corrected by inflation) as a student and felt happy equally with it as with my DSOX3032A bought in 2015.
Its screen was so dim that I should to put a black PVC tube around to screen out environmental lights.

Georgd
 

Offline David Hess

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Re: Soviet Oscilloscopes (Made in USSR)
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2018, 02:55:50 pm »
Having so many embedded videos makes loading the page difficult.

You can really see how the Soviets were cloning HP and Tektronix designs.  Tekwiki has some information on Soviet and Hungarian clones of the Tektronix 7000 mainframe oscilloscopes:

http://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/Soviet_7000-series_clones
http://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/TR-4658
 

Offline 001

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Re: Soviet Oscilloscopes (Made in USSR)
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2018, 03:35:53 pm »
Tekwiki has some information on Soviet and Hungarian clones of the Tektronix 7000 mainframe oscilloscopes:

Almost all soviet electronics was destroyed for gold plated details in 1990th.
 

Online RoGeorge

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Re: Soviet Oscilloscopes (Made in USSR)
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2018, 04:17:22 pm »
Nice!

I still have a C1-118A (last pic).  All the electronics inside are powered through a mains AC transformer, and the entire oscilloscope is galvanically isolated from the 220V AC.  It was my first scope, so I thought galvanic isolation is the norm with all the oscilloscope.

At my first job, they had a very nice and expensive Tektronix, which had its own small trolley, a big blue pouch on top for probes and cables, analog memory, digital multimeter, frequency counter and all the bells and whistles of a high end and very expensive oscilloscope (most probably it was a Tektronix 466B Analog Storage Oscilloscope, don't recall the exact model number).

But, of course, the Tektronix didn't had galvanic separation from the mains, like my little C1-118A has, and I didn't know about that.  ^-^
Go figure what happened next. :-DD
« Last Edit: June 17, 2018, 04:21:40 pm by RoGeorge »
 

Offline imo

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Re: Soviet Oscilloscopes (Made in USSR)
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2018, 04:33:16 pm »
It looks like there were several R&D and production sites in USSR, some of them specialized on the high-ends and some on the others.
For example the C1-91/4 and C1-129 came definitely from a different USSR company than the C1-83, C1-93, C1-99, it seems..

BTW, there are still some 80ties models listed in various .ru e-shops (not cheap, however).
« Last Edit: June 17, 2018, 04:39:14 pm by imo »
 

Offline David Hess

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Re: Soviet Oscilloscopes (Made in USSR)
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2018, 04:40:02 pm »
But, of course, the Tektronix didn't had galvanic separation from the mains, like my little C1-118A has, and I didn't know about that.  ^-^
Go figure what happened next. :-DD

They certainly are galvanically isolated from neutral and hot but the Earth ground is connected to the chassis ground for safety.  Later Tektronix made a ground isolation monitor if you wanted to float the oscilloscope ground.
 

Offline imo

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Re: Soviet Oscilloscopes (Made in USSR)
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2018, 06:12:54 pm »
C1-91 teardown pictures (a "clone" of Tektronix 7000 series Mainframe oscilloscope).
« Last Edit: June 17, 2018, 06:18:13 pm by imo »
 

Offline 001

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Re: Soviet Oscilloscopes (Made in USSR)
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2018, 11:38:14 pm »
It looks like there were several R&D and production sites in USSR, some of them specialized on the high-ends and some on the others.
For example the C1-91/4 and C1-129 came definitely from a different USSR company than the C1-83, C1-93, C1-99, it seems..
Yes. At least 9 plants made industrial test gear in USSR. And few "common" models was produced for schools and repairmans in late 1980th.
 

Offline WhichEnt2

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Re: Soviet Oscilloscopes (Made in USSR)
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2018, 11:23:45 am »
I don't know either it's relative to subject or not:

A book about scopemaking in Lithuania from first models to early 90's.
Russian language, intro in English and Lithuanian. Lots of photos.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/viq3enrlunhrigw/People.Years.Oscilloscopes.pdf?dl=0 1 file version
http://www.eltesta.com/resources/application-notes/index.htm 6 file version, direct links on the top
Short pieces, high value, small period, huge amount, long delay.
 
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Offline imo

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Re: Soviet Oscilloscopes (Made in USSR)
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2018, 12:25:04 pm »
Quote
A book about scopemaking in Lithuania from first models to early 90's.
..page 205: С9-5 (1979) first soviet 8bit adc digital storage oscope with 100x100 pixels flat display (itron?).. 550pcs produced/sold within 6years.
My very feeling is the soviets heavily ignored the importance of Sales and Marketing departments at that time.. :)


« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 12:41:29 pm by imo »
 

Offline WhichEnt2

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Re: Soviet Oscilloscopes (Made in USSR)
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2018, 02:14:38 pm »
Quote
100x100 pixels flat display (itron?)
ИМГ-1 (“Атлет”)
http://www.155la3.ru/img1_02.htm

Based on ГИП-10000 neon matrix
http://www.155la3.ru/gipp10000.htm

Down in text they said that scope was too big to carry it through submarine hatch.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 02:24:43 pm by WhichEnt2 »
Short pieces, high value, small period, huge amount, long delay.
 
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Offline schmitt trigger

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Re: Soviet Oscilloscopes (Made in USSR)
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2018, 03:21:51 pm »
I love the old Soviet, Cold War era electronic equipment.

One of the things that fascinate me is the circuit workarounds for components unavailable to them. Some were very clever, some were very crude, but they had an unique Soviet twist to it.
 

Offline MasterT

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Re: Soviet Oscilloscopes (Made in USSR)
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2018, 01:20:06 am »
Quote
A book about scopemaking in Lithuania from first models to early 90's.
..page 205: С9-5 (1979) first soviet 8bit adc digital storage oscope with 100x100 pixels flat display (itron?).. 550pcs produced/sold within 6years.
My very feeling is the soviets heavily ignored the importance of Sales and Marketing departments at that time.. :)
Sales and Marketing departments didn't exist at all. "Planned economy" also didn't need TV advertisement, actually any advertisement.
 I remember S&M showed up in 1993, when kommunism was declared RIP. 
Worked as a repair technician in metrology department at that time, have seen a lot of listed scopes from "inside" .
 

Offline imo

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Re: Soviet Oscilloscopes (Made in USSR)
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2018, 08:22:21 am »
Quote
Sales and Marketing departments didn't exist at all.
They did somehow it seems - see the page 161 of the book - a young lady selling an oscope - the shot was intended for German market (based on the text there)..
 

Offline cmjones01

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Re: Soviet Oscilloscopes (Made in USSR)
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2018, 01:18:57 pm »
I became fascinated with the wonderful world of Soviet oscilloscopes when I stumbled across a set of manuals in German for the C1-122 'universal oscilloscope' a couple of years ago. It's a re-imagining of the Tektronix 7000 series using entirely Soviet parts and techniques. A couple of months back I found an actual C1-122 with an interesting set of plugins for sale locally and couldn't resist buying it.

Seeing a Tektronix 7000 series (my main lab scope is a 7904A) and its Soviet equivalent side by side is fascinating. In some respects the Soviet one is clearly a copy of the Tek. For example, the plugin connector has the same number of ways and most of the same signals in the same places. In others, it's subtly different. Said connector is 2.5mm pitch instead of 0.1". And in yet other ways the Soviet development went in its own direction: the plugins include quite a flexible tunnel diode pulser, and the later (Я4С-100 and Я4С-101) sampling plugins have digitally-operated slideback measurements.

I'm documenting as much as I have time for on TekWiki, as well as searching for interesting plugins and accessories. A full set of probes and manuals for the Я4С-97 multimeter plugin (including temperature and high voltage/EHT) came from someone in Belarus, and I have another interesting plugin on its way from a surplus dealer in Ukraine. I'd love to find the sampling head ('stroboscopic mixer') for the sampling plugins, and the Я4С-105 'measurement unit' just to find out what it actually does. Any leads would be much appreciated.

Chris
 

Offline WhichEnt2

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Re: Soviet Oscilloscopes (Made in USSR)
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2018, 04:09:32 pm »
Я4С-105 according to the 21 / 171 page of http://www.eltesta.com/Downloads/files/People.Years.Oscilloscopes.Parts%203.3,%203.4.pdf perform semiautomatic cursor measurements.
Short pieces, high value, small period, huge amount, long delay.
 

Offline schmitt trigger

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Re: Soviet Oscilloscopes (Made in USSR)
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2018, 04:15:11 pm »
CmJones:
fascinating finds! I'm so jealous! Good for you.

It is interesting to see that the Soviets took the time to translate the instrument's legends into German. It shows they were committed to export these units.
Wonder if they made them in other languages too.
 

Offline cmjones01

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Re: Soviet Oscilloscopes (Made in USSR)
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2018, 07:39:44 pm »
Я4С-105 according to the 21 / 171 page of http://www.eltesta.com/Downloads/files/People.Years.Oscilloscopes.Parts%203.3,%203.4.pdf perform semiautomatic cursor measurements.
Yes, that's why I'm intrigued with it. It doesn't have an input on the front panel, only a calibration signal output as far as I can see. So it must get some sort of input from the mainframe. However, in the original Tektronix mainframe design, there's no way that a vertical plugin can see the signal from the other vertical plugin or the sweep from the horizontal plugin, so any kind of automated measurement would be impossible without front-panel input (like the 7D12 has). Therefore I suspect that the C1-91/115/122 mainframes have an enhanced the plugin interface to make it more flexible. I already have some evidence for this: the pairs of sampling plugins (Я4С-95/96 and Я4С-100/101) talk to each other (sending sampling pulses) through the backplane, whereas their Tektronix equivalents have separate connectors on the sides of the plugins which contact each other separately from the backplane. I've now got plugin extenders for my C1-122 so can relatively easily have a look at what's going on on the plugin interface. The manual isn't very helpful at describing the functions of the various pins.

This is the sort of thing I find really interesting. It's not that the Soviet designers just copied Tektronix. They took the 7000 series design and ran with it, introducing various changes and improvements.

Chris
 

Offline MiroS

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Re: Soviet Oscilloscopes (Made in USSR)
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2018, 07:44:20 pm »
>Yes. At least 9 plants made industrial test gear in USSR. And few "common" models was produced for schools ...
Yep, we avided them,  we tend to say - 'use  necessarily in a helmet and safety glasses'
This is not a joke.  CCCP devices  were well know to explode rapidly. Probably most fameous was TV set  called Rubin.
 

Offline cmjones01

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Re: Soviet Oscilloscopes (Made in USSR)
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2018, 07:47:08 pm »
CmJones:
fascinating finds! I'm so jealous! Good for you.
I'm glad someone else is interested in this stuff! There's lots of stuff out there about Soviet 'industrial espionage', and teardowns of dead equipment, but I find it really interesting to have a working setup that's actually usable.
Quote
It is interesting to see that the Soviets took the time to translate the instrument's legends into German. It shows they were committed to export these units.
Wonder if they made them in other languages too.
I've only ever seen them in German and Russian. According to the Eltesta history these scope were designed and produced in Lithuania, but I haven't seen a trace of Lithuanian language anywhere on them. I'm in Poland and the pictures of scopes I've seen here have been in a mixture of German and Russian. My own C1-122 is in German (though with 'Made in USSR' curiously in English), the basic plugins are in German, and all the high frequency/sampling plugins are in Russian.

I've seen images of a brochure from Mashpriborintorg describing the 'universal oscilloscopes' in English, but I've never seen one labelled in English. I wonder if they exported any to the West. There seem to be a quite a few in Germany but they're likely to have come via the DDR.

Chris
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 07:49:15 pm by cmjones01 »
 

Offline schmitt trigger

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Re: Soviet Oscilloscopes (Made in USSR)
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2018, 08:34:05 pm »
I had forgotten about the DDR connection. That is the reason for the German language labels.

My closest to a working Soviet era piece of equipment was a Praktina 35 mm SLR camera. The body was made in the USSR, but it had a DDR Zeiss-Jena lens.
 

Offline cmjones01

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Re: Soviet Oscilloscopes (Made in USSR)
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2018, 09:37:19 am »
Here's a funny thing. I've just received some scrap Soviet plugin casings, having had the idea to make an adapter to allow Tek plugins to work in a Soviet mainframe. A quick eyeball told me it ought to be feasible, but now I've actually tried it with an empty Soviet plugin casing, and the fit is extraordinary: literally if you tried to design a casing to accommodate a Tek plugin, you could hardly do any better. It's a perfect snug sliding fit. Coincidence? By design? Will we ever know?

I need to make an appropriate rectangular hole in the front panel and do some wiring, clearly, but the basics are all there. Making the readout compatible is going to be the fun bit!

Chris
 

Offline imo

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Re: Soviet Oscilloscopes (Made in USSR)
« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2018, 12:03:48 pm »
20y back I acquired this C1-99, mainly because the seller told me it is a Tek clone (which one?). I replaced the fan (extremely loud, something unbelievable..) with a silent modern one (fit perfectly) and since then it works fine with all original parts. I got 2 booklets with user's guide and schematics. Also it is using tunnel diodes, jfets, ceramic uhf power transistors, and several chips and hybrids. Made in 1986, probably in Minsk (Bielarus).
Except the 2.5mm pitch diff (common with eastern ICs packages too) mentioned above it seems the soviet BNC connectors are a little big bigger, such a modern probe or a BNC cable sometimes locks in and it is a pain to remove it off.
 

Offline cmjones01

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Re: Soviet Oscilloscopes (Made in USSR)
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2018, 01:08:58 pm »
20y back I acquired this C1-99, mainly because the seller told me it is a Tek clone (which one?)
It doesn't look like any Tektronix model I've ever seen, but the spec seems something like a Tek 465.
Quote
Except the 2.5mm pitch diff (common with eastern ICs packages too) mentioned above it seems the soviet BNC connectors are a little big bigger, such a modern probe or a BNC cable sometimes locks in and it is a pain to remove it off.
Yes, the connectors that look like BNCs aren't actually: they're SR50-73 (СР50-73 in Cyrillic), and the corresponding plug is called SR50-74. They sort of fit BNCs but the locking pegs are a bit further from the front of the connector, so the bayonet latch either won't fasten fully or gets stuck. The plug is a slightly different size, too. I've got some cables here with SR50-74 plugs on them which look like BNCs but they won't fit actual BNC sockets without really forcing them.

There are other connectors in the SR50 series, some of which are unique Soviet ones and others which are quite close to Western ones. The SR50-262 looks convincingly like an 'N' socket, and an 'N' plug will just about fit, but the thread is different.

Chris
« Last Edit: June 26, 2018, 02:22:15 pm by cmjones01 »
 


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