EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: Electroplated on August 07, 2022, 10:24:09 am
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Hi,
This is regarding my brand spanking new SPD3303X-E that I took deliver of yesterday. A bit of a ramble to start with, My old home built power supply finally gave up the will to live due to a transformer fault, open primary, it gave stellar service over the years, 0-30V 0-5A, separate 5 and 12V outputs and a 10v AC at 5A. So rather than rewind a new transformer by hand again ( large toroidal and lots of big calculations ) I decided to search for a new one and decided on the SPD3303X-E after reading everything I found about it.
I knew about the binding post problems with early versions and that Siglent have addressed the issue along with the overhearing bridge rec and thought if its anything like the SPD1305X I have then the binding posts wont be an issue, besides the fact the positive and negative terminals are reversed on both models from the same manufacture ( really ? ) however, none of my banana ended cables fit snug into the SPD3303X-E, the same ones fit snug into every piece of gear I have but on the SPD3303X-E, nope, to get a decent connection I have to use fork terminations or bare wire.
My SPD3303X-E is REV3 with the most recent firmware, not sure what version the binding post issue was fixed, so am wondering if I got an older version ? all I can do is ask call Siglent and speak to them and see where we go from there.
Its a nice supply, does what I need and most important, its fits on my space limited bench, we live in the UK in an old house and I was allowed to have a little bit of space in a spare room, I should have read the marriage license more carefully to see if there is actually a limitation on the maximum allowed hobby area ;D... its also very quiet.
Besides the gripe about the binding posts not holding banana connectors ( ignoring the 20 mm spacing that I can work around by making new adapters ) the only other bug if it is a bug is the current limiting, it seems rather slow under 50mA, it does go in to current limit mode just as expected but under 50mA its rather slow to respond, under 30mA the warning bleep doesn't work, above 30mA and there's a warning bleep. Maybe Siglent should put a warning bleep on the binding posts to let you know the cables fell out ;)
Anyway after that Sunday morning ramble, the short version, does anyone know what hardware versions had the binding post problem ?
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5 years ago binding post banana socket issues were resolved when another binding post was fitted however it never resolved users using old and outdated banana plugs.
The list in this post has the perfect examples of this old stuff that should be reserved for instruments of yesteryear that don't prescribe to modern insulation clearances.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-spd3303x-e-binding-post-issues-solved/msg1445242/#msg1445242 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-spd3303x-e-binding-post-issues-solved/msg1445242/#msg1445242)
So why would I say this ? The modern banana socket has conductive metals deeper in the socket and more insulation length near the opening for just one reason, safety for the user.
Then you ask why, it's a LV PSU ?
Well it is and it isn't, in Series mode these are 60V supplies and you would correctly say that's not exactly dangerous in any way which is true until you take advantage of another feature these units offer.....multiple units can be series'ed together for a max of 500V above mains earth !
Excuse me but in that case I'd prefer any metalwork in the banana sockets to be buried deep within and only reachable with modern quality banana plugs.
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Thanks for the reply tautech,
Most of mine are either hirschmann or Staubli or Mueller, these are loose when plugged in, easy to wiggle about, they don't leave any exposed metal when pushed in but are loose, these are not cheap rubbish.
Other ones, well some cheap junk that I don't use leave a collar exposed but we don't use those on power supplies, was just comparing junk to decent ones.
There is a huge difference between the binding posts on the SPD3303X-E compared to those on the SPD1305X, besides the obvious differences and fit the SPD3303X-E binding posts do have some play in them against the front panel, the entire binding post assembly can move relative to the front panel, don't have this on anything else.
I'm not going to buy a whole range of test leads in the hope a set will fit when I have a stash of quality ones that I never have issues with, now not sure where to return it or see if other posts can be supplied or fitted, its a shame but in its present state, its not really useable unless you use wires or forks to get a tight connection and that causes a lot more problems than it solves.
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Know what you mean regarding the terminals, we have 3 SDP3303. We just don't get a good "feeling" when inserting any banana plug, and they don't seem to engage as deeply as the other instruments. They actually appear more robust and beefier than the terminals on the GPP-4324 we have which are smaller, but work as expected with a deep firm grip.
The electrical performance is quite good and a very good value. Even with the quirky user interface and even with the terminal issues these are our usual "GoTo" supplies when doing quick setups for the lab.
We have all sorts of cables and plugs including the cheap rubbish types, we've found the ones with a long blade type contact rather than the spinning spindle type work better because they have a much longer contact area and will fully engage with the SDP terminals.
Best,
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I've an RS-Pro rebranded one, and the terminals are just fine with all my banana plugs, as far as I can see, both cheap and expensive. It has hardware version 3.0
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Thanks to all those who replied,
I did some more plugging and unplugging this afternoon, it seems the binding posts on mine are odd, on all the negatives, I can literally flick any plug out, one light flick and they pop out, the positives and green ground are loose but can not be flicked out, I will presume my one may be an oddity and hopefully new posts may solve it as I am not to keen to return it, its only those posts, everything else is good, quiet, small footprint a screen can read, however I am not sure if Siglent would send out a set of posts and agree to me changing them rather than have it sent in or exchanged.
As I mentioned, my space is limited as the room is share my family for hobbies, ( you wanna see them run when I blow things up, a blown cap can clear the room for a whole weekend ! ) hence why I decided on the Siglent, besides a few single channel supplies it is the one out of a few that fit on my shelf, allowing for the cables at the back, next one up in size was an Owon but I believe the fan would drive me insane.
If I cant get the posts changed I may try to make insert slips, if that fails then the only real option would be to duplicate the posts on an extension bar and wire that to the Siglents posts and set the unit further back on the shelf, may look odd but it solves the entire issue.
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Send it back, you shouldn't have to put up with that kind of nonsense!! The 3 SDPs we have hold the plugs OK, some not as good but they don't fall out. The plug shown in the image holds very well and sinks deep into the socket.
You must have an older version, because the ones we have the terminals are bad but not to the point where a seated banana plug could just fall out. That's not only aggravating and a nuisance, but also costly if a plug fell out and caused a circuit to fail because of a lost connection to the power supply for example!!
Best,
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Hi mawyatt,
You made a good point about plugs falling out, my shelf is above the bench, all I need is plug dropping down. I have some of those BUELA 30 K plugs that look similar ( or the same ) as those you posted a picture of, even those are loose and can be easily flicked out, the negative posts are the worst for some reason. Of the 20 odd plugs and leads I have none make a decent connection, so that leads me to wonder about the possibility or arching inside the terminals, its not as if I use junk connectors, I get all mine from RS and they are not cheap ! Even my few BSB 20 K plugs are loose, I dont use them because once stacked they stick out over the shelf.
I'll speak to Siglent UK about this but I don't hold out much hope of getting this resolved without a return, sad really, its a nice supply and fits my needs but given the quality of those posts, nope, I think its put me of Siglent, I mean all that time and money to make a nice unit but they mess up on the terminals and the spacing, even more baffling as the single supply I have has nice solid terminals at the standard spacing !
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Just get it exchanged as it's delivered as defective, no need for you to wait or repair.
Contact supplier, get RMA and have them send another "new" unit ASAP, they will charge your account until they receive the returned defective unit, then they will credit your account. The quality distributers here in US work that way, we use Saelig for most of our Siglent equipment. Also Siglent NA is has also been very helpful, they seem to be a quality company that values their customers, even the small ones.
We have a bunch of Siglent stuff, and very happy with most, some has exceptional performance/features for the price.
BTW those plugs shown above, they seat very well and very firm, no way they are going to pull out without a significant tug!!
Good luck.
Best,
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I'll speak to Siglent UK about this but I don't hold out much hope of getting this resolved without a return, sad really, its a nice supply and fits my needs but given the quality of those posts, nope, I think its put me of Siglent, I mean all that time and money to make a nice unit but they mess up on the terminals and the spacing, even more baffling as the single supply I have has nice solid terminals at the standard spacing !
Just checked a SPD3303X-E and an older SPD1168X we have here using the supplied banana to croc clip leads.
Did yours come with them ?
Pic below of these and they are quite rigid when inserted.
The way the std supplied banana plugs fit in the X-E is the lantern spring totally clears the outer insulation before it engages with the metal deep in the socket leaving ~7mm before they push fully home.
SPD1168X OTOH has the metalwork much closer to the tip of the terminal due to them not requiring the same degree of insulation as they are not rated for series operation like SPD3303X and X-E are.
This SPD3303X-E unit is late 2021 production with a SN# SPD3XIDX5R****
What range of SN# is yours Electroplated ?
I also have some reasonable quality stackable retractable shroud banana leads that work perfectly well however their lantern spring is of a different design and only some 8mm long with its center swelling nearer the plug tip. These engaged with the metalwork only permit a further 5mm of engagement yet are quite firm enough when fully inserted.
I'm getting a feeling yours may be an old unit, maybe some old stock from somewhere in the EU system as what you describe doesn't mirror our tests today but your SN# should tell us what's really going on.
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Morning mawyatt,
Wish my plugs that look similar needed a significant tug, well they do on the single Siglent and on some junk psu that I use for my hobby drill and water pump and they are as tight as a nats wotsit when plugged into my home brew psu !
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Morning tautech,
The serial on my SPD3303X-E is SPD3XIEC6R0xxx, hardware version 3. the only other thing I noticed is if I look through the sides with a light the mains switch harness appears to be tied up as it seems to loop down into the switch pcb.
Mine was supplied with a set of plug leads that fit, but are still easy to pull out, again its the negative terminals that seem worst effected with channel one being the worst with a lot of play, wiggle wiggle and its out, as for the plug, that as well ;D, if I plug those supplied leads in to anything with a binding post, they fit tight, fit into HIRSCHMANN binding posts and they are hard to pull out, so the supplied ones seem fine to me.
I don't have retractable ones that would fit because not enough pin is exposed to get to the magic 20mm, worked that out by reading other posts here and measuring what I have. I did originally think my testing was flawed because some of the leads had wear but I have some unused BUELA 30 K that are still loose, I don't use them as they are blue and yellow, I use red, black and green on power supplies to stop my feeble aging mind becoming confused :)
Just a quick edit to my reply, I've taken on board what you say about the binding posts being different due to the SPD3303X-E being used in serial or parallel mode, probably a similar reason to why the spacing is different to prevent using those infernal twin plug type adapters, especially the junk bnc type.
The only other thing to note is mine never had the peel off screen sticker on it but not sure if they are fitted or it was removed during a pre-delivery check, on the other hand, I've been using a Siglent scope for 6 years and only removed the screen sticker last week and spent ages removing the sticky that was left behind, one of those things I kept meaning to do but never did until the screen seemed dim :-)
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Morning tautech,
The serial on my SPD3303X-E is SPD3XIEC6R0xxx, hardware version 3. the only other thing I noticed is if I look through the sides with a light the mains switch harness appears to be tied up as it seems to loop down into the switch pcb.
Mine was supplied with a set of plug leads that fit, but are still easy to pull out, again its the negative terminals that seem worst effected with channel one being the worst with a lot of play, wiggle wiggle and its out, as for the plug, that as well ;D, if I plug those supplied leads in to anything with a binding post, they fit tight, fit into HIRSCHMANN binding posts and they are hard to pull out, so the supplied ones seem fine to me.
Evening EP. ;)
Ok you certainly have an issue with those banana sockets as they should hold any modern plug just fine so yes, as mawyatt says it needs go back as it's not fit for purpose.
The only other thing to note is mine never had the peel off screen sticker on it but not sure if they are fitted or it was removed during a pre-delivery check, on the other hand, I've been using a Siglent scope for 6 years and only removed the screen sticker last week and spent ages removing the sticky that was left behind, one of those things I kept meaning to do but never did until the screen seemed dim :-)
Only the latest touch display Siglent devices come with protector overlays these days but there is the odd exception like the latest SHS series.
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Hi tautec,
Nice to know the overlays are not fitted these days, bit less plastic to dispose of !
I'm going to squeak, I mean speak to Siglent or its handling company in a hour or so, thing is both websites state I should pay return carriage for under warranty repairs so I may need to bitch about that if it needs to go back, by nature I am a tight wad, if given a preference I would try new posts and fit them myself as it saves a lot of faffing about, getting Siglent to agree may be not easy, I understand why they may refuse that but can only ask.
All that said, I found a use for the timer, never used a time but I designed a simple toggle switch that controls a relay, I wanted to test the thing with rapid on/ off cycles, did the job :)
Will post later about how I get on, thanks for all the information and testing the plugs I saw in the pictures, very much appreciated.
Another quick edit, spoke to the handling company for Siglent UK and am waiting for Siglent to respond to them, I mentioned swapping the posts but we will see, don't matter what they decide, I'll end up with one of these either way.
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I'm very interested in the outcome as we get a new shipment of these PSU's in the next week or 2 after not having had any for a while and if they have loose banana plug sockets.......I won't be pleased.
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If the original genuine Hirschmann BUELA 30K is indeed too loose, there is something seriously wrong with the binding post. BUELA 30K (also 20K) is just the right plug for these connectors.
Note: There are also many more or even total shit " look-alike " copies of "Hirschmann BUELA 30K". (for example, the spring force may be very weak due to wrong material and the spring prongs are too soft, which means that they lose spring force very quickly in use.)
Could you measure the inside diameter of the hole in the power supply connector - exactly?
For some reason I value real raw data more than opinions and feels.
We know what it should be. As far as I understand, there are also defined tolerances for it. After all, Hirschmann is the original developer of that whole banana plug from the beginning of the last century. If these are not ok for these binding posts - then binding post are wrong.
It's really unbelievable that this could be an issue in 2022.
Example: CalTest gives the dimensions of the internal contact hole of the banana plug: Ø .157 ± .002 (Ø 4 mm ± .05 mm)
I have somewhere old design drawing about these Siglent binding posts but I do not remember dimensions and tolerances. And can not find this image now.
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Hi rf-loop,
I've used digital needle calipers that go to the metal inserts I get these measurements, best I could do and should have done this sooner ! ( measurement method: zero calipers, insert across plastic outer casing, take a measurement, rotate calipers 90 degrees, take measurements)
reading left to right:
Neg ch1 4.90 mm
Pos ch1 4.70mm
Gnd 4.77mm
Neg ch2 4.82mm
Pos ch2 4.86mm
Neg ch3 4.85mm
Pos ch3 4.83mm
Inserting the calipers into the metal receptacle I get:
reading left to right:
Neg ch1 4.48 mm
Pos ch1 4.42mm
Gnd 4.37mm
Neg ch2 4.47mm
Pos ch2 4.43mm
Neg ch3 4.47mm
Pos ch3 4.43mm
As a comparison:
Staubli 23.0330-22 red binging post, new unused for a test, inside metal receptacle : 3.99mm
Second measurement resulted in 4.08mm so there is some error in my measurements but not much compared to its RS data sheet.
Still not heard back from Telonic or Siglent yet.
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I'm very interested in the outcome as we get a new shipment of these PSU's in the next week or 2 after not having had any for a while and if they have loose banana plug sockets.......I won't be pleased.
Hopefully mines just a oddball, it can happen so lets see before those negative waves begin to cause some gloom ;D
Not heard anything back yet, probably a bit too soon to expect a response, Tommorow I wont be here till tomorrow night, if at all, hospital job, the bone pullers want my remaining few teef so I can fitted with someone else's so I get my Mr Ed look back, may have to change my forum name to something suitable, like toothless wonder or ol stumpy....
Rest assured, once I hear something I will let you know but I bet I have a Friday job SPD3303X-E, unless they had issues with sourcing parts due to the state of the world and dug out that big box of posts they had to change.......and I got one ;D
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Couple things I do like about these terminals are they seem to be beefy and really like the colored tips.
The colored tips make it very easy to see from anywhere at any angle, even with plugs engaged, while the GPP-4323 only has thin colored washers behind the the smaller terminals. This makes it very difficult to see from anywhere, we are always having to take multiple "looks" just to be sure of what terminal is what, however the plug fits securely with any plug!!
Best,
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I think the best thing is the spacing, that little bit more so fat fingers can tighten the terminals, I sometimes struggle on the standard 19cm spacing, more so if the knurling / grip isn't so good or like me a bit of arthritis affects the fingers, I would rather have the extra distance, something I have never really thought about till I got this bench supply.
Your point about the big colour rings is a good one, yes they much easier to see, I have a old power supply that lost its lettering, the posts have a thin line of color around the end, you cant see it if a plugs in place unless you pull it back a little, its a pain in the backside doing that, luckily I don't use it that often, its mostly used to drive a 12v water pump that's used to rapidly empty water butts and a small fountain, takes too long for gravity to do it and I would rather do something else than babysit buckets, unless they are full of a decent home brew ;D
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Here's the GPP-4323 terminals (left) and SDP3303X terminals (mid).
Judge for yourself!
Best
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I'm a big fan of colored rings too -- I even added some to my GPP4323 and made a video about it!
https://youtu.be/RkpahjgQoiA?t=44
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Nice idea with the markers!! Did you coat the terminals with clear coat?
For the probe clips why not use heat shrink tubing, it comes in most colors?
Best,
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Yep, I put top coat on the terminals too. It hasn't cracked yet, despite many plug/unplug cycles and direct contact between two surfaces with paint + top coat.
Heat shrink tubing is great -- if you can get it where you want it. Sloped, slippery surfaces are tricky and the finite contraction ratio is sometimes a challenge too. Acrylic paint is more versatile, though I suppose it wouldn't work on flexible substrates. Nature abhors a silver bullet :D
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mawyatt,
Nice picture, it just confirms you collect binding posts and the PSU attached to them is the price collectors pay ;)
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Believe it or not we needed all 3 SDP3303X and the GPP-4323 and a OPD OPE-QI which had +-120VDC and a couple other voltages. This was during the development of a very complex controller which produced 128 (scalable to 256 and later to over 1000) independent precision channels capable of producing independent bipolar over +-100V Dynamic Arbitrary Waveforms that could be bi-phase modulated, all at ~15bit precision levels! This was for a new type research project for a Phased Array Beam Forming System based upon liquid crystals, hopefully later will lead to a custom chip design.
Best,
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Sounds very interesting, somewhat above my head, I only know the very basics of beam forming and a little of its history but it does demonstrate why sometimes there is a need for a good mix of power supplies, know how to get them to work together and their limitations, not that I'll ever need more than a couple for my meager needs.
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Hi rf-loop,
I've used digital needle calipers that go to the metal inserts I get these measurements, best I could do and should have done this sooner !
<clip>
Inserting the calipers into the metal receptacle I get:
reading left to right:
Neg ch1 4.48 mm
Pos ch1 4.42mm
Gnd 4.37mm
Neg ch2 4.47mm
Pos ch2 4.43mm
Neg ch3 4.47mm
Pos ch3 4.43mm
No need think anything but quality control has failed really badly.
With the dimensions mentioned, if they are approximately correct, it cannot be accepted or explained as acceptable in any way. The only claim is: Structural error, completely. (or just random moday morning part... what must not happen) To be rejected. They should be replaced with ones that do not have such a terrible measurement error. Also they need check all manufatured units if they have get and used bad binding posts from subcontractor (they are Siglent designed)
Recently, when I was doing some home repairs in China, I bought a stone wall drill. I bought an 8mm drill bit. At home I measured it when I noticed the hole was too big. The width of the "hard metal part" of the drill was about 9.2mm --- Chinese 8 millimeters. (the body of the drill was 8 mm... bhuuhh...)
The correct target measurement for lab instruments banana jack would be 4 mm -0.02/+0.06
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The correct target measurement for lab instruments banana jack would be 4 mm -0.02/+0.06
Yes it is not rocket science, it is just 4mm.
Just checked two SPD units and all banana sockets on them take the shank of a 4mm HSS drill bit with minimal clearance.
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rf-loop,
Well I said they where a loose fit and those caliper measurements do show the metal inserts or whatever they call them are bigger, not much but enough to cause a loose fit, yes, I now suffer from binding post measurement syndrome, been measuring every 4mm post and plug I can find, I hope its a short lived ailment.
I've had cheap drills that bend or snap or where undersized but cant recall buying one that came with 'free metal gift' at the tip, you must have got yours on bargain day, buy 8mm get 1 flea... I mean free.
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tautech,
4mm drill shanks wobble about in mine, tried that before I found my old calipers, if it wasn't for the fact I get power out of them I would say they skimped on the metal, probably used it to make rf-loop's cheap drill bits...
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Just an update on this,
I decided to give up on the idea of swapping the binding posts and requested an exchange unit, the SPD3303X-E is packed ready for collection tomorrow, once its returned and checked, a replacement will be sent out.
The reason for the change of plan is while I am more than capable of replacing the binding posts myself I had to consider what would happen if another problem showed up during the process, so rather than risk more problems I decided on an exchange, arranged it as soon as I could after I came up with a simple test, it was mentioned on here that a 4mm drill shank should fit snugly so I dug out a few branded ones and tried them, lets just say the 'insert and tilt the unit forward test' proved that 4mm drills fall out of both the problem posts, I mean the far left one just slid out no problem, just using gravity.
Also both of the problem posts are very tight to unscrew past the wire hole, channel 2 negative wont clear the hole at all, I did get a nice imprint of the terminal on my fingers though. I was in contact with someone who has one of these, bought from the same place a few months ago and he has no problems with it so it seems I got a dud.
One good thing has come from this, I believe that all bad experiences can lead to something good, the good in this is I need a new tool, a small decent spring balance so I can test springs, micro switches and of course and the force needed to pull out 4mm sockets, it may come in handy one day.
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Just an update on this,
I decided to give up on the idea of swapping the binding posts and requested an exchange unit, the SPD3303X-E is packed ready for collection tomorrow, once its returned and checked, a replacement will be sent out.
Also both of the problem posts are very tight to unscrew past the wire hole, channel 2 negative wont clear the hole at all, I did get a nice imprint of the terminal on my fingers though. I was in contact with someone who has one of these, bought from the same place a few months ago and he has no problems with it so it seems I got a dud.
That's a big red flag that something is very wrong with this unit and sending it back is the best solution. :-+
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Hi tautech,
Yeah its more of a problem than I first thought, I was so fixed on the plugs being loose I never actually opened all the posts and was surprised that the two problem ones where so stiff to unscrew, its something I should have checked when I got it while going through my testing before finding a spot for it on the bench, to be fair, I was so impressed with the build and display that I didn't check everything.
I've had problem binding posts before, wont mention the brand but a few out of a batch where so tight to back off that I used pliers on one, I later found out that during manufacture when the outer plastics pushed on, the machine somehow damaged the threads, got a new batch sent out direct from them not the place I bought them, they sent 20 to replace my 10.
Hopefully this exchange will be simple one and I can move on from it, I spent a long time deciding to buy it so was a little disappointing it had faulty posts, its not put me of though, I'm deciding on a replacement for my old Siglent sds1102 as its developing problems , sometimes there no trace at all so have to reboot it a few times so I'm looking at the SDS1104X-U to replace it, that's based on the layout of the trigger options being buttons instead of in the trigger menu. At some point I'll pull the sds1102 apart and see if its possible to fix it, if not then its earned its keep and served me well over the years.
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I'm deciding on a replacement for my old Siglent sds1102 as its developing problems , sometimes there no trace at all so have to reboot it a few times so I'm looking at the SDS1104X-U to replace it, that's based on the layout of the trigger options being buttons instead of in the trigger menu. At some point I'll pull the sds1102 apart and see if its possible to fix it, if not then its earned its keep and served me well over the years.
SDS1102X, CNL, CML or X-E ?
Is its FW right up to date ?
https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/
Does it drop just one channel ?
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Hi tautech,
Its the SDS1102 CNL, has the last firmware, its both traces that go awol, did it yesterday while taking a single shot of a psu at power on, set the trigger level and vertical and timebase, scope waits for triggering and nothing happens after a trigger event. doesn't matter what vertical channel is used, Adjusting the trigger and repeating the trigger event doesn't do anything.
Change trigger to auto and there is no traces, both channels are active according the front buttons, you can play with the vertical and time base settings all day, buttons and menus work normally, the traces are not coming back unless its rebooted and then it will behave until the next time, of course I wont know when the next time will be because this is random, some times it works just fine, sometimes it has a fit for some reason. The odd thing is when this happens I can still do a screenshot to a usb stick, so I can save a nice picture of nothing ;D
I just accept it as a quirk but its a good excuse to get get something new, don't need a super advanced over complex scope, just something that works though four traces would be nice.
The SDS1102CNL was my first digital scope, before that it was a tek 2236 and believe it or not, a telequipment D43R dual gun crt scope, non of this 'alt and chop' rubbish ! ( R designated rack versions) that I rescued from scrap, came from a national standards lab, once restored it doubled as a scope and room heater, also a telequipment DM63 analogue storage scope, there's also a hameg 20mhz something in there somewhere but I wanted something more up-to date though i will admit I was dragged into the world of digital scopes kicking and screaming !
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Hmmm, not saying it’s the same or similar issue but have a look here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/sds1104x-e-intermittent-glitches-and-now-dead/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/sds1104x-e-intermittent-glitches-and-now-dead/)
Know exactly where you’ve come from as my first scope was a Telequipment too, a D83.
We have a class set of CNL all AFAIK still working since we supplied them in 2013 so the problem with yours will be of interest if you can find it…..I guess you’ve already tried a Default.
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I think by now the default button is becoming worn out, thanks for the link, when I get time I'll tear it apart and see whats going on.
Given how things go with me, now that I have mentioned the problem, it wont show up for a while, its not really a big problem though, if it cant be resolved or I cant be bothered going to board level then I will just grab a new one, it really has earned its money, did so in the first few days of using it years ago so I can say its owned me no money.
Thought going digital would be a big learning curve but the way the scopes laid out and the menu on it made the transition pretty easy, the only slight negative is these things are so lightweight these days I have to have the scope fixed with a velcro strap through the handle so stop it tipping off the shelf if a test lead gets snagged, never had to worry with the ol D43R, if that came off the shelf it would have taken me with it.
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...... so I'm looking at the SDS1104X-U to replace it, that's based on the layout of the trigger options being buttons instead of in the trigger menu.
The X-U are a budget version of 4ch X-E and not in the same class being only a 100 MHz design vs the 200 MHz capable X-E.
If you can stretch the budget to the X-E get one as the feature set is much deeper so it's a scope you may never need to upgrade depending on how much time you need spend in front of a scope.
Attached is a comparison chart prepared by member rf-loop however the new Logging and NTP features aren't shown for the SDS1104X-E.
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If you include image using its original source address (not some old copy from EEVboard etc) there have been over half year new corrected version ;) ;)
(https://siglent.fi/pic/SDS1104X-U/Compare-X-U---X-E-688.png)
and then about datalogger in SDG1004X-E models
(https://siglent.fi/data/SDS1000X-E-4-CH/datalogger-mem-available-table.png)
( Here more about datalogger, but sorry chingfinglish language (https://siglent.fi/oskilloskooppi-dataloggeri-SDS1004X-E.html) )
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I am using a SPD3303D power supply, do you know how to calibrate it? There is some deviation in current in normal use, I don't know how to calibrate
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Thank you tautech and rf-loop, you both caused me to spend all afternoon getting my head around those specs, I still don't understand half of it all but have a grasp of the important parts.
Your suggestion has been invaluable and helped me to decide to go for the X-E version , the only deciding factor now is stretching the ol wallet a bit further, wallets here are being crucified at the moment.
Had my SDS1102CNL open,cant see any obvious problems like leaking or bulging caps or burnt components, a quick once over didn't reveal bad soldering, a bit of dust off and the pcb's look pretty good, probably start with the psu as it seems to be a simple tops based design and was going to forward from there but as usual, had other things to get on with.
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I am using a SPD3303D power supply, do you know how to calibrate it? There is some deviation in current in normal use, I don't know how to calibrate
See Chapter 3 in the Service manual:
https://siglentna.com//wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2019/08/SPD3000X-Series-Service-Manual.pdf
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Thank you tautech and rf-loop, you both caused me to spend all afternoon getting my head around those specs, I still don't understand half of it all but have a grasp of the important parts.
Your suggestion has been invaluable and helped me to decide to go for the X-E version , the only deciding factor now is stretching the ol wallet a bit further, wallets here are being crucified at the moment.
Some of the additional cost of the X-E over X-U is componentry as X-E HW uses dual 1 GSa ADC's, each with its own 14 Mpts memory support which allows it to maintain a max sampling rate of 500 MSa/s with all channels active whereas the X-U can only manage 250 MSa/s with 4 active channels on a single ADC.
For the X-E to get 1 GSa for 2 channels, one must be on each ADC however once a 3rd channel is used sampling drops to 500 MSa/s, the same as what you would get using 2 channels on the same ADC.
It's pretty simple once you get your head around it however you'll find an X-E in another world and a lot more featured compared to your CNL.
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Got that tautech, your explanation was so easy to understand.
Theres also the SDS1202X-E, its a 2 channel, seems like a nice scope, I need to think about a 2 or 4 channel as I have got by fine with just 2, well except for way back when TTL was common, back then I designed a 4 / 8 channel analyser that converted a dual trace crt into pretty handy tool but it had its limitations, there was a 16 channel version but it was clunky and bandwidth was pretty limited to a few Mhz tops IIRC.
Though going with the one you suggested, the 4 channel would give me more options and I would to have pink and green traces instead of the yellow and blue, just for a change !
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I found it wasn't a calibration issue.
Please see the picture below. When it is not turned on, I set the output to 24V, and the display is also 24.00V. Turn on the ON switch, the screen displays 24.02V, sometimes 24.01V, or repeatedly jumps between 24.00-24.02
I don't know what caused it, could it be that the internal relay is damaged?
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I found it wasn't a calibration issue.
Please see the picture below. When it is not turned on, I set the output to 24V, and the display is also 24.00V. Turn on the ON switch, the screen displays 24.02V, sometimes 24.01V, or repeatedly jumps between 24.00-24.02
I don't know what caused it, could it be that the internal relay is damaged?
Can't find a Service manual for these older models however like the X-E PSU's these only offer a 10mA/mV resolution too. My guess it's working just fine.
We do get asked for these older models occasionally but don't stock them and instead favor the SPD3303X-E as they can be hacked if needed to the 1mA/mV resolution X model.
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Theres also the SDS1202X-E, its a 2 channel, seems like a nice scope, I need to think about a 2 or 4 channel as I have got by fine with just 2, well except for way back when TTL was common, back then I designed a 4 / 8 channel analyser that converted a dual trace crt into pretty handy tool but it had its limitations, there was a 16 channel version but it was clunky and bandwidth was pretty limited to a few Mhz tops IIRC.
Though going with the one you suggested, the 4 channel would give me more options and I would to have pink and green traces instead of the yellow and blue, just for a change !
Be aware although the 4ch X-E's followed on from the 2ch SDS1202X-E the 4ch versions while sharing the same feature set also offer a pile more functionality and and the features are somewhat better polished.
It is somewhat disappointing Siglent haven't tidied some of this mismatch of what looks like the same X-E family so one might expect a similar feature set but in reality they're miles apart. :palm:
To get much the same feature set as the 4ch X-E's one must cough up more dosh for the SDS2000X-E that more closely matches the capabilities of the 4ch X-E's.
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I found it wasn't a calibration issue.
Please see the picture below. When it is not turned on, I set the output to 24V, and the display is also 24.00V. Turn on the ON switch, the screen displays 24.02V, sometimes 24.01V, or repeatedly jumps between 24.00-24.02
I don't know what caused it, could it be that the internal relay is damaged?
First image V values are Set values.
Second image V values are Read back values when it is running.
If you change setup values in run state it start first display Set values but after short time it start again display Read back values. (if I remember right this old D model)
10-20mV is imho just like normal in these models. Its resolution is 10mV not accuracy! 10mV @ 10V is 0.1%
Calibration. There is not physically tunable adjustments at all inside. (except if you change components)
Calibration is fully software based. You need suitable instruments and calibration software /script from Siglent. (I don't recommend even trying.)
In service manual there is table you can also check if it meet designed accuracy limits.
Note also that read back measurement point is inside unit. In high current situations there still can be voltage drop between this mesurement point and output terminal point. And aven more after wires to load.
These models do not have sense lines for compensate this voltage drop.
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Well I am in now in serious trouble trying to repair my old Siglent scope.
I broke all resistance and bust my wallet on a SDS1104X-E, that's as far as I could go for now.
Also, if my wife can spend 350 quid fixing a dent in the car that she didn't want me to see then, I can spend on a scope that I certainly do want to see ;D
If there are no updates on that returned power supply then you can assume that an additional feature has been added to our garden, a small hill, with me under it and a scope as a head stone.
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I did the same on CH2 channel, but CH2 is normal.
CH1 channel open or close always automatically offset 10-20mv
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A long awaited update about my faulty unit,
It was returned last week and the fault has been identified, I get a replacement unit tomorrow, invoice shows a different serial number :-)
One good thing to come from this is it promoted me to try every 4mm plug I had, there's at least 50 odd leads, I did find a few that where either worn or not up to the job so have ordered a load of new BUELA 20 K.
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A further update, the replacement psu arrived today, gave it a good going over and test, pleased to say there is sod all wrong with it, only tried the supplied leads and a few of my good ones, fit is as expected and all posts open fully.
Thanks to everyone who helped on this, was a bit of a bad experience but the helpful replies I have had nudged me on to swap it out.
Thanks again.
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