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Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: olsenn on January 26, 2012, 09:27:39 pm

Title: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: olsenn on January 26, 2012, 09:27:39 pm
Hello everybody,

I was just wondering if anyone has any experience with the new Rigol DSA815 spectrum analyzer, and if not, if you can tell me by the specs (http://int.rigol.com/prodserv/DSA800/ (http://int.rigol.com/prodserv/DSA800/)) whether or not it's any good. Keep in mind that it is only $1500 (tequipment) so it won't compare to the high end analyzers. I really wanted a 3.0GHz one as to measure 2.4GHz signals, but what the hell, the 1.5GHz will work for most of the stuff I would need it for.

What is the optional tracking generator, EMI filter (I can guess at this one), quasi-peak detector, and VSWR measurement kit used for? Are these essential for the operation of a spectrum analyzer?

Thanks
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: joelby on January 26, 2012, 09:57:10 pm
A tracking generator generates a test signal at the same frequency as the spectrum analyser's input frequency - if you connect the generator directly to the spectrum analyser, you would theoretically get a straight line. They're useful for testing RF filters or amplifiers - you can see how their response varies with frequency.

A VSWR bridge allows you to measure the signal being reflected out of the device under test's input, which makes it possible to calculate the degree of impedance mismatch.

They're both pretty useful things, really!
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ejeffrey on January 26, 2012, 11:25:53 pm
EMI filter and quasi-peak detector are for doing EMC pre-compliance testing.  Basically, they are a set of IF filter and detection options that match regulatory requirements on EMC, so that your measurements can be directly compared with the requirements.  AFAIK, there is no need whatsoever for these features in a spectrum analyzer that won't be used for EMC pre-compliance testing.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ejeffrey on January 26, 2012, 11:30:47 pm
Oh, if it wasn't clear:  The VSWR bridge is almost always used with the tracking generator.  You would feed the TG to the input port, the output goes to your DUT, and the return port goes to your spectrum analyzer.  It is possible to use it with a separate signal source, but generally you will use the tracking generator.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Fraser on January 26, 2012, 11:49:32 pm
It looks a nice unit. Compact and well laid out.

I am using 3.5GHz Advantest R4131D's as I love their design and build. But they did cost GBP15K new ! I would be tempted by the Rigol for portable work but I have some 1GHz units for that so can't justify the purchase  :(  Now the bit that may not be so good. My R4131D's use a YIG oscillator for the 1st LO and these can sweep a broad frequency range at excellent speeds to provide very fast scans of the spectrum even at 0-3500MHz spans.
Some cheaper and more portable spectrum analysers have gone down the path of swept VCO's instead of a YIG oscillator. The result can be very slow sweep update speeds due to the PLL lock limits and VCO settling times. Such spectrum analysers can be fine for static carriers but spread spectrum and frequency hopping can be a challenge for them. MAX hold will eventually build up an 'image' of the hopper but it can take a much longer time than a YIG equipped unit. Anything that used DSO type techniques involving FFT should be carefully scrutinised. A poor implementation of FFT on a cheap spectrum analyser would be awful to use.

With regard to frequency coverage. You can always build a simple downconverter for a particular area of the microwave spectrum. To obtain true RF level readings you would need a calibrated signal generator operating in the same frequency range and use the comparative level method of level measurement. That's how people used to use older spectrum monitors that had no calibrated amplitude.

I personally would not buy this unit without first seeing it in the flesh or reading a review from a trusted source that details its true performance rather than just quoting manufacturers specs.

If you are interested in viewing the 2.4 GHz ISM band, I can highly recommend the Ubiquiti Airview2. I have a couple of them plus a cheaper Chinese version. These units use dedicated ISM band receivers that provide 300kHz RBW which is sufficient for Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, Wreless cameras, RF ISM eavesdroppers & data links etc. My Airview2 units cost me only GBP30 ($45!) + p&p from the USA. IMHO no techie interested in ISM band stuff should be without one of these or similar units from Metageek .... Wi-Spy (much more expensive). They are relatively cheap, easy to use and designed for the task of monitoring ISM band activity with good sensitivity and level indication.

Web links for you to look at:

Ubiquiti AirView2 (EXT) - Analisis Software - Zero13Wireless.net (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0AMmhacbVg#)

http://www.ubnt.com/support/airview (http://www.ubnt.com/support/airview)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ubiquiti-Airview2-2-4GHz-USB-Spectrum-Analyzer-without-External-Antenna-Mac-PC-/370567158568?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5647861b28 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ubiquiti-Airview2-2-4GHz-USB-Spectrum-Analyzer-without-External-Antenna-Mac-PC-/370567158568?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5647861b28)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ubiquiti-Airview2-EXT-Antenna-2-4GHz-Spectrum-Analyzer-/140601287787?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20bc7d646b (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ubiquiti-Airview2-EXT-Antenna-2-4GHz-Spectrum-Analyzer-/140601287787?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20bc7d646b)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/UBIQUITI-AirView2-2-399-2-485GHz-Spectrum-Analyzer-USB-AirView-2-/170747611215?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27c159c84f (http://www.ebay.com/itm/UBIQUITI-AirView2-2-399-2-485GHz-Spectrum-Analyzer-USB-AirView-2-/170747611215?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27c159c84f)



Just my 2 Cents worth. 

Aurora
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: RCMR on January 27, 2012, 01:03:31 am
Review of the WiSpy unit here:

http://www.rcmodelreviews.com/wispy24i.shtml (http://www.rcmodelreviews.com/wispy24i.shtml)

Not exactly a piece of lab-grade gear but a reasonable amount of bang for the buck.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: sonicj on January 27, 2012, 06:06:34 am
With regard to frequency coverage. You can always build a simple downconverter for a particular area of the microwave spectrum. To obtain true RF level readings you would need a calibrated signal generator operating in the same frequency range and use the comparative level method of level measurement. That's how people used to use older spectrum monitors that had no calibrated amplitude.
do you have any suggested reading on this topic? im borrowing a older hp analyzer that tops out at 1GHz and would like to look at 2.4. 

If you are interested in viewing the 2.4 GHz ISM band, I can highly recommend the Ubiquiti Airview2. I have a couple of them plus a cheaper Chinese version. These units use dedicated ISM band receivers that provide 300kHz RBW which is sufficient for Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, Wreless cameras, RF ISM eavesdroppers & data links etc. My Airview2 units cost me only GBP30 ($45!) + p&p from the USA. IMHO no techie interested in ISM band stuff should be without one of these or similar units from Metageek .... Wi-Spy (much more expensive). They are relatively cheap, easy to use and designed for the task of monitoring ISM band activity with good sensitivity and level indication.
discontinued mac support  :-\   whats the cheap chinese version?
-sj
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Fraser on January 27, 2012, 10:18:13 pm
Hi Sonicj,

If you need to downconvert 2.4GHz to a sub 1GHz frequency, I recommend you consider adapting a ready built device rather than trying to build one as it is quicker and simpler especially if you don't have a 3GHz spectrum analyser   ;)

I have modified MMDS downconverters for such a task. Take a look here

http://www.qsl.net/g0ory/2.3g/lo2398/lo2398.html (http://www.qsl.net/g0ory/2.3g/lo2398/lo2398.html)  (this is similar to my units)

http://www.qsl.net/n9zia/31732/index.html (http://www.qsl.net/n9zia/31732/index.html)

http://www.qsl.net/n9zia/wc0y/index.html (http://www.qsl.net/n9zia/wc0y/index.html)

http://www.amsat.org.ar/lu7dsu/mmdsconv.html (http://www.amsat.org.ar/lu7dsu/mmdsconv.html)

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/m-arai/gkz/sband/convmode.htm (http://www.ne.jp/asahi/m-arai/gkz/sband/convmode.htm)

http://www.scribd.com/anon-849269/d/40213396-Converter-for-Monitoring-2-4-GHz-Cordless-Phones (http://www.scribd.com/anon-849269/d/40213396-Converter-for-Monitoring-2-4-GHz-Cordless-Phones)

http://www.qsl.net/n9zia/wireless/2.4rxconv-pics.html (http://www.qsl.net/n9zia/wireless/2.4rxconv-pics.html)

http://www.qsl.net/n9zia/wireless/appendixF.html (http://www.qsl.net/n9zia/wireless/appendixF.html)

http://www.g3wdg.free-online.co.uk/modes.htm (http://www.g3wdg.free-online.co.uk/modes.htm)

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~jpsl/downconverters_for_mode_s.htm (http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~jpsl/downconverters_for_mode_s.htm)

http://www.markfossum.com/pdf/norsat.pdf (http://www.markfossum.com/pdf/norsat.pdf)


Commercial units are well built, low noise and stable. Its a great way to improve a spectrum analysers frequency coverage but you do lose any calibrated amplitudes as the MMDS converter has masses of gain  :) The models I use were designed to fit a dish so had a dipole feed attached. Perfect for some 2.4GHz monitoring  :)
Mine is UK sourced and was only GBP19 !!!! Great VFM. Try building a decent down converter for that sort of money....you'll be hard pressed to do so. The MMDS system was used in Ireland and the USA for certain so you should be able to find a supplier via ebay or a Google search.

Have fun  :)

Aurora
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: NukerDoggie on April 09, 2012, 05:10:26 pm
Someone here says the max scan rate for the Rigol DSA815 is 10ms. Not exactly sure what that means. Does it mean 10ms to scan the entire 9kz to 1.5ghz range?

How would this SA stack up to the challenge mentioned here regarding seeing freq. hopping, etc? I'm seriously considering a purchase of this unit but don't want to get stuck with an instrument that is too limited or too slow.

I REALLY hope someone here can do a review and teardown real soon!
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: nctnico on April 09, 2012, 08:54:56 pm
Some professionals are very enthousiastic about this one:
http://www.signalhound.com/ (http://www.signalhound.com/)

The 4.4 GHz version is well withing your budget.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: olsenn on April 09, 2012, 09:06:29 pm
Quote
Some professionals are very enthousiastic about this one:
http://www.signalhound.com/ (http://www.signalhound.com/)
The 4.4 GHz version is well withing your budget.

I'm not sure how much I would trust that one, but it does certainly look promising
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: echu on April 09, 2012, 11:28:52 pm
I am close to ordering signalhound for work. There are several reports on this (mostly by ham radio operators) that are impressive. Consider this is a USB instrument that is achieving -150 dBm sensitivity, which means roughly it is able to resolve ~picovolt level signals. If I get one, I will report back.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: nctnico on April 10, 2012, 12:24:51 am
Quote
Some professionals are very enthousiastic about this one:
http://www.signalhound.com/ (http://www.signalhound.com/)
The 4.4 GHz version is well withing your budget.

I'm not sure how much I would trust that one, but it does certainly look promising
I more or less regret spending my money on an old Advantest R3261  :( Someone on an electronics newsgroup uses the Signalhound for some serious EMC work.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: rf-loop on April 10, 2012, 09:13:02 am
I am close to ordering signalhound for work. There are several reports on this (mostly by ham radio operators) that are impressive. Consider this is a USB instrument that is achieving -150 dBm sensitivity, which means roughly it is able to resolve ~picovolt level signals. If I get one, I will report back.

I am close to ordering signalhound for work. There are several reports on this (mostly by ham radio operators) that are impressive. Consider this is a USB instrument that is achieving -150 dBm sensitivity, which means roughly it is able to resolve ~picovolt level signals. If I get one, I will report back.

-150dBm in 50ohm system means that voltage rms  is around 7.071nV (7071pV)
dBm is power related to 1mW  (this m is for mW)

With 100Hz RBW it is (if -150dBm/Hz)  around -130dBm (dependent also littlebit RBW filter shape specs)

It need really understand what mean  this noise level. (DANL)
dBm/Hz !!!  And  even more, what really this average mean in practice working.
(DPNL is raw and hard... they (manufacturers) do not want use it)

(yes manufacturers do not always clearly tell this dBm/Hz... it is very fun example if minimum RBW is 1kHz or even more and manufacturer use dBmHz but talk dBm. Sometimes it is noted in one place with small letters and then they use without any worry just dBm. It is not clear lie becouse it really can find there if read all carefully. Some manufactures show it more clear some maybe forget whole thing.

What it means?

If it is -150dBm/Hz   what if band  width (RBW) is 100Hz. It is -130dBm
What is displayed noise level in practice if RBW is 1kHz or 100kHz.
It is good to know and realize so disappointment is then not so big.

What span it is practical to use 100Hz RBW. How long time it take if set span example 100MHz and use 100Hz or 1kHz or example 10kHz RBW. (with 100kHz filter it takes around one second!  So it is really amazing slow! Old (very old) and slow R&S take same 40ms. With 100MHz span and RBW 100kHz and input attenuator 0dB. With this setting noise peak level is around -100dBm compared to this dogbox -65dBm. (oh well 35dB difference, not so big... more than 1000:1 in power )

And this: "Frequency Sweeps up to 140 MHz per second"

There was one example picture in rewiew, 100MHz span, 100kHz RBW  sweep time nearly 1 second
and noise peak floor seems be around -65dBm  and maybe under -70dBm level can not detect anything.  It is realistic. (with these used settings)

Then this people who make rewiev and he look dislpayed average noise level... he use 100Hz RBW and then he adjust (normalize) numbers to dBm/Hz (dBm/1Hz) this is natural becouse also manufaturer use this, but it need remember what is dBm/Hz. Minimum RBW in this box is 100Hz.

Residual spurious in input connector! Level is -- more bad than terrible. After reading this, if I see any serious lab work made with this box... I classify it as "garbage".

But then, price! In this price: not bad for many kind of use where is not so critical for perfomance and accuracy.

In manufacturer AD they tell it is high perfomance spectrum analyzer. (  ::)  )

If this is High Perfomance spectrum analyzer I'm caesar of China.
It is low perfomance or entry level/hobby level spectrum analyzer but maybe not toy level.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Fraser on April 10, 2012, 11:39:35 am
RF-Loop,

Thanks for this insight into spectrum analyser specifications and how they may confuse buyers.

With regard to teh OP's question.....

Over the years I have learnt that, where spectrum analysers are concerned, you definitely get what you pay for. My Advantest R4131D cost around GBP15000 new and was considered an average performer by lab technicians. DDS, FFT and high speed ADC's are not the magic wand that makes a GBP15000 performance available for less than GBP2000.  The Anritsu and R&S portable spectrum analysers had some pretty awful performance issues and they were 'state of the art' only a few years ago. The Anritsu ADC tram lined very easily indeed. These units still cost many thousands of pounds but were compromised by the need for compactness and use of new but embryonic DDS & FFT technologies.

If your needs are hobby grade, there is no harm in buying a cheaper spectrum analyser, provided you accept the compromises that are necessary to attain the low production price. If you want performance on a budget, I recommend you buy a used brand name bench format spectrum analyser from manufacturers like R&S, Hewlett Packard, Advantest or Anritsu to name a few. They ARE better built and DO perform as specified.

Remember, Spectrum Analysers have a sweep rate and the capture of a frequency agile signal like Wi-Fi isn't a simple task for such a unit. Each sweep will 'see' one or more signal peaks but MAX hold is the simple way to see the shape of the transmission and its related bandwidth and amplitude etc. As I have already stated, dedicated Wi-Fi tools are a good option and I just bought a n 'as-new' WiSpy 2.4x for GBP 80. The WiSpy is a well designed and very affordable solution to viewing Wi-Fi activity in an area.... more so than your average spectrum analyser...try lugging one of those onto a roof or antenna mast !

Just my thoughts on the matter  ;)

Aurora
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: olsenn on April 10, 2012, 12:59:24 pm
Anyone care to compare the specs of the SignalHound SA to the Rigol one (DSA815)? The scan rate on the former sounds to be very slow???
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: NukerDoggie on April 10, 2012, 01:24:53 pm
Yes - Please! Compare the Dog Box and the Rigol DSA815.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: olsenn on April 10, 2012, 01:40:19 pm
Quote
Someone here says the max scan rate for the Rigol DSA815 is 10ms. Not exactly sure what that means. Does it mean 10ms to scan the entire 9kz to 1.5ghz range?


Yes, the 10ms refers to the scan rate throughout the entire displayed frequency range; so it scans from ~0Hz (displayed amplitude accuracy is just not guarenteed below 9KHz) to1.5GHz, 100 times per second. Of course you can manually decrease the scan rate (for example to 50ms).
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: NukerDoggie on April 10, 2012, 02:11:11 pm
That would appear to me to be not that bad a scan rate. Certainly not up in the clouds with the $45,000 lab-quality units, but far above hobby and toy levels.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: rf-loop on April 10, 2012, 02:17:49 pm
Quote
Someone here says the max scan rate for the Rigol DSA815 is 10ms. Not exactly sure what that means. Does it mean 10ms to scan the entire 9kz to 1.5ghz range?


Yes, the 10ms refers to the scan rate throughout the entire displayed frequency range; so it scans from ~0Hz (displayed amplitude accuracy is just not guarenteed below 9KHz) to1.5GHz, 100 times per second. Of course you can manually decrease the scan rate (for example to 50ms).

Using what RBW?  (if use speed where measurements are valid)
Is it possible it can do it with 100kHz or 1MHz RBW?
What is speed if span is 1.5GHz and RBW is 10kHz?

In one picture it show:
Span 5kHz RBW 100Hz sweep time 500ms
So it IS not slow (but yes it is posible with today DSP).
Old "state of art" R&S is 3 times slower in this case...  (but beats Rigol of course in many accuracy related things and example noise floor etc etc)
But 500ms for 5kHz with 100Hz RBW. Good in this class!

(I do not know how this DSP technology etc affect but normal fundamental thumb rule is RBW/10  means scan time x 100.)



------------------------
other things ("dogbox spectrum analyzer")


In 50 ohm system displayed average noise level (DANL).

If manufacturer tell that displayed noise level DANL is (example) -150dBm/Hz

(Note: sometimes they forget this /Hz)

In theory (reference: http://literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/5965-7920E.pdf (http://literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/5965-7920E.pdf) (Spectrum Analyzer Basics)):


DANL

RBW 1Hz    -150dBm
RBW 10Hz   -140dBm
RBW 100Hz  -130dBm
RBW 1kHz   -120dBm
RBW 10kHz  -110dBm
RBW 100kHz -100dBm
RBW 1MHz   -90dBm

Also this is just as old R&S workhorse show exept that it is of course better, and same for very very old work horse HP8568B what is even more better.


Then I look:
http://www.signalhound.com/Signal%20Hound%20RADCOM%20Review.pdf (http://www.signalhound.com/Signal%20Hound%20RADCOM%20Review.pdf)

manufacturer claim DANL 100MHz preamp off: -148dBm and preamp on: -161dBm

Then I look review picture 1.
Measurement start 100MHz stop 200MHz RBW 100kHz ATT 10dB

What is wrong?
Personally I do not believe this review (exept this picture 1) and I do not believe manufacturer specifications.

There is 20-30dB somewhere missing. I understand some dB mistake and lie but if I tell I sell 100 ball to you do you accept you get 1 ball.

So, what is trutht about this dogbox noise or do I understand something badly wrong?
 
If set RBW to 100Hz and scan 100MHz, how long time it takes with dogbox?
(very old R&S need 1980s) (with 100kHz RBW it use 40ms)

 In its price class it looks not bad at all, (on the paper).  With 100Hz RBW and long averaging noise floor really looks like it is around -135dBm (50MHz) using preamp(!) if this manufacturer picture can trust. Also it is not slow. This machine in its price class can take seriously. It is not high end precision equipment but well better what I think before read more about it with my some experience.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: NukerDoggie on April 10, 2012, 06:25:47 pm
Today I've contacted Rigol-USA tech support and asked them to please provide more detail on the DSA815 Sweep Time specs.

I asked them what the fastest sweep time and DANL would be for the 'worst-case' scenario of an RBW=100Hz and Sweep Frequency Span=9Khz to 1.5Ghz. I also asked them for same in other, less severe scenarios (those with a wider RBW and/or narrower sweep range).

I told them it was impossible for me to make a buy decision without the additional information I requested, and that many other potential buyers would feel the same way. The instrument and its price look very attractive, but the low price raises more uncertainty, which needs to be dispelled (if possible) by more detailed information such as that I have requested.

As soon as I hear back from them I will post the response here.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: jahonen on April 10, 2012, 08:43:35 pm
I wouldn't worry about such worst-case sweep speeds, in practice you won't use them. In fact, the sweep speed limitation comes mostly from RBW/video filter settling time which can't be circumvented, it is something like law of nature (narrower the spectrum, longer the settling time response and vice versa). Even if the sweep speed wouldn't be a problem, it is nicer that signals show up initially as reasonably wide peaks, then you can zoom into interesting ones. Also, phase noise and other FM instabilities of the local oscillator may prevent using very narrow RBW's.

It is worthwhile to initially look at relatively wide spectrum and then verify that you are measuring what you think you are measuring. Strong out of screen signals can screw up your measurement or even damage the analyzer if you are not careful. This is because the first mixer sees every frequency component of your input signal, whether it is on screen or not.

For comparison, R&S FSV7 sweeps 9 kHz to 1.5 GHz in about 5.7 seconds (as indicated on screen) in FFT mode (automagically selected) and 15000 seconds(!) on sweep mode with 100 Hz RBW. More practical example is a EMI measurement setup, which I use regularly, with logarithmic sweep from 30 MHz to 1 GHz with 120 kHz RBW, that sweep takes 674 ms (again as indicated). Or that 9 kHz to 1.5 GHz linear sweep with 100 kHz RBW, it takes 15 ms.

Regards,
Janne
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: NukerDoggie on April 10, 2012, 10:18:58 pm
jahonen,

You make some excellent points. Much appreciated!
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: NukerDoggie on April 11, 2012, 08:57:58 pm
Well, here's the response from Rigol on the DSA815:

See attached pdf from Rigol.

Looks pretty decent to me - what do the rest of you think?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: olsenn on April 11, 2012, 09:53:36 pm
Quote
Well, here's the response from Rigol on the DSA815:

See attached pdf from Rigol.

Looks pretty decent to me - what do the rest of you think?

I'm quite surprised that Rigol not only got back to you, but also went to the trouble of putting together a document with screen captures and highlighted information. That being said, there are a few mistakes and other points worth mentioning. I own one of these units, and I have checked the results on my SA against the results reported in this document.

First of all, all of the screenshots are obviosly correct, so there's no mistakes there; however, for the RBW of 100KHz (no screenshot provided) the sweep time is automatically adjusted to 150ms, not 50ms as stated in the document. Secondly, the 1500s listed for a RBW of 100Hz is kind of misleading; that is the correct value in terms of what the system recommends for that RBW over the full 1.5GHz range, but that is only because 1500s is the maximum sweep time supported by the device. As you will see below, it would take 150,000s to achieve the same fidelity at this setting.

If you set the frequency to go from 0Hz to 150MHz, or 1GHz to 1.15GHz (or any 150MHz range) the values given are:
               RBW=100Hz,       Time=1500s (Highest possible -- should be 15000s)
               RBW=1KHz,         Time=150s
               RBW=10KHz,       Time=1.5s
               RBW=100KHz,     Time=15ms
               RBW=1MHz,         Time=10ms (Lowest possible -- only needs 5ms)

As you can see everything gets scaled down proportionately; this makes sense since it will take 1/10th the time to sweep 1/10th the range while moving at the same rate. I'm not sure why it isn't linear based on RBW, but I guess that doesn't matter too much... you can easily tell just how much of a sweep time you need by increasing it and seeing if it changes the output at all (if it doesn't, then you're lower speed is good enough)

Also, if you're wondering, setting the Auto SWT mode from Normal to Accy (High Accuracy) seems to tripple the sweep time. I don't notice any difference between the two outputs, so I'm assuming that's just Rigol's way of saying this way there's no chance in hell the time chosen isn't enough.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: olsenn on April 11, 2012, 10:10:29 pm
Another thing I have noticed is that if you manually override the sweep time to something lower than the recommended one, or in the case of (for example) a RBW of 100Hz in Full Span (1.5GHz) mode (where you are forced to use a sweep time lower than what would be recommended if the device could sweep longer than 1500s) a little blue "UNCAL" box shows up at the top of the screen to let you know that the device can't meet its specs at this setting. You can see this in Figure 1 in the document previosuly posted.

To prevent confusion, the DSA815 is not limited to RBW's of 100Hz, 1KHz, 10KHz, 100KHz, and 1MHz. Additionally, you can select a RBW of 300Hz, 3KHz, 30KHz, or 300KHz. This is known as the 1-3-10 sequence 
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: NukerDoggie on April 11, 2012, 10:37:49 pm
olsenn,

Thanks much for the clarifications. So, do you LIKE your DSA815? Is it worth the money ($1,200-$1,500) ?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: olsenn on April 11, 2012, 10:57:26 pm
Quote
Thanks much for the clarifications. So, do you LIKE your DSA815? Is it worth the money ($1,200-$1,500) ?

To be honest, I'm still getting used to it. I've never owned a SA before, and I still have much to figure out about this one. So far I do like the device and I think it is pretty safe to say that the DSA815-TG is the only real contender for a sub $2000 spectrum analyzer.

I still need to hack together some sort of active probe to get any real use of the tracking generator, and apart from Rigol charging extra fro the advanced measurment functionality (which I have not purchased) my only real complaint so far would be the lack of a probe power port on the device. Don't buy the cheaper unit without the tracking generator by the way; that would be stupid. The tracking generator must be purchased with the unit, but the other add-ons can be purchased later if you wish, and all you need to do to activate them is enter an alphanumeric code in the device... perhaps eventually someone will leak some codes out over the internet (unless they're tied to the serial number of the device). I've tested its programmability through VISA commands and that works like a charm.

One thing that frightens me, and this affects all spectrum analyzers out there, is the 50-ohm input. I have a 30db attenuator in the mail that I purchased on ebay, which will hopfully add sufficient input protection. Fortunately, the DSA815 is AC coupled, so you can have a DC offset of up to 50V without damaging the device. 20dbm, or little over 2Vrms AC can damage the device if no external attenuator is present; although in the datasheet Rigol does claim that a protection switch will be enabled if more than 25dbm goes through the input. When I connect my Rigol DG2041A function generator up to it (directly) I get unexpected amplitude readings, although I'm sure this is my fault for being an idiot, haha. Actually, it may be 1/sqrt(2) of what I was expecting???

Most importantly, it also functions as an AM/FM radio :)

 
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: NukerDoggie on April 11, 2012, 11:48:58 pm
I like these guys for attenuators:

http://www.jfwindustries.com/catalog/Fixed_Attenuators-4-1.html (http://www.jfwindustries.com/catalog/Fixed_Attenuators-4-1.html)

Another late comment from the Rigol Tech Support rep:


Quote
"I didn't mention that the Peak Hold feature of the analyzers will allow
you to do "N" sweeps capturing the peak value in each "bin".   That way
you can see all the hops or transmitters that come up over time."
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: rf-loop on April 12, 2012, 05:22:26 am
Well, here's the response from Rigol on the DSA815:

See attached pdf from Rigol.

Looks pretty decent to me - what do the rest of you think?

In attached pictures there can see many things.

Of course Rigol AD man can tell:
 
"Typical -135 dBm Displayed Average Noise Level (DANL)"

Really typical - owb

And after then careful people look more deep and example these Rigol pdf pictures and...

I remember some year around  ~1980 I buy US made some "Hi-Fi" amplifier... wow.. AD paper brochyre in shop tell it is 100W amplifier...
Well... yes it was... total power consumption from AC line was round 100W.

Dream image what AD give is sometimes far way from real world truth or sometimes people believe AD tell same what he think but maybe they are different things... just example amplifier... AD talk total power consumption but I think amplifier output power... and I believe AD talk just this. (without looking more deep what they really talk)

But, Rigol... not bad at all in this 1k$ price class.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: NukerDoggie on April 13, 2012, 02:10:13 am
My primary interest in the DSA815 is in using it for EMF / EMC. I manufacture prototype medical devices in the field of photo-biostimulation, employing arrays of 820nm infrared LEDs that are mounted in a custom-molded fiberglass casting that fits a particular patient's neck/shoulders. I'm in the medical trials phase presently. I'm treating patients with neurological disorders (like MS and PLS) by irradiating the cervical spine in order to dissolve scar tissue in the regions where the upper motor neurons and the lower motor neurons interact with each other. This takes time (many months) and requires that the patient wear the casting for 10 minutes, 3 or 4 times a day, while the little devils (240 infrared LEDs) happily irradiate their tissues. These are 100ma LEDs arranged in 16 strings of 15 LEDs each.

Since the casting is in very close (intimate) contact with the patient for up to 40 mins every day, and I'm using 24vdc and PWM intensity control, we've got lots of nice sharp square waves with RF ringing all around the patient's neck and near his/her head. So controlling EMF is a big issue. The FDA requires that you keep it under certain levels, for obvious reasons. So the DSA815 looks goos for my purposes, at first glance.

Of course, some of that nasty RF ringing is in the scope probes - but how much? An SA configured to monitor the EMF spectrum is very desirable (no, a necessity). I already have several EMF meters that I use to verify the levels are very low (thanks to countermeasures taken) but a visual and more respectable confirmation via a decent SA is what I'm after.

Any comments or suggestions would be much appreciated.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: dfnr2 on April 13, 2012, 05:45:01 pm
Since the casting is in very close (intimate) contact with the patient for up to 40 mins every day, and I'm using 24vdc and PWM intensity control, we've got lots of nice sharp square waves with RF ringing all around the patient's neck and near his/her head. So controlling EMF is a big issue. The FDA requires that you keep it under certain levels, for obvious reasons. So the DSA815 looks goos for my purposes, at first glance.

I believe that if the device meets the EN/IEC 60601-x standards, then any FDA standards will not be an obstacle.  Some devices, such as MRI coils, produce strong RF near fields, resulting in RF deposition and patient heating, and are subject to additional FDA regulations, but I doubt those would apply to your device.

for EMC precompliance testing, I have an HP 8591E with the quasi-peak detector, but I believe the quasi-peak detector really not necessary--I haven't used it yet.  If, as you indicated, you baked the EMC precautions into the device, then hopefully all the peaks will be within spec anyway, and if not, you want to bring them down as much as possible.  The quasi-peak detector will be useful for those borderline peaks you just can't reduce any farther--they may actually meet requirements if measured with the quasi-peak detector, since that's how the standard is defined.

Looking at the Rigol, it appears very attractive.  Certainly very portable, which is a plus.  If you get one, I'd be very interested to hear how it works out.

Dave
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: NukerDoggie on April 14, 2012, 02:55:22 am
I would dearly LOVE to see a review and teardown of the Rigol DSA815-TG!!!

Please!!!
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: NukerDoggie on April 14, 2012, 04:31:34 pm
Response from David L. Jones:


Quote
Test gear doesn't just magically arrive for review, I have to somehow acquire it first :-> But as it so happens I am talking to Rigol US about reviewing gear, and that one was on the list. So maybe it will happen.

David L. Jones
www.eevblog.com (http://www.eevblog.com)
The Electronics Engineering Video Blog
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: olsenn on April 14, 2012, 09:48:56 pm
Quote
Looking at the Rigol, it appears very attractive.  Certainly very portable, which is a plus.  If you get one, I'd be very interested to hear how it works out.

Here is a photo to show how the size of the device compares against some of my other tools.

(http://s15.postimage.org/52jkw49ln/IMG_1281.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
free picture hosting (http://postimage.org/)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: NukerDoggie on April 15, 2012, 12:07:49 am
That 8" screen on the DSA815 is really nice!

Well, since EMC is going to be my primary application for the DSA815, I'm looking into acquiring a suitable wideband antenna - perhaps a dipole or maybe a log periodic antenna (array of dipoles). They can be very expensive, a lot more than the SA itself - I want one of my own, I don't want to rent.

I'm wondering if I can build one and get it calibrated/certified, or at least compare it to one that is and document the variances?

http://glendash.com/Dash_of_EMC/Log_Periodic/Log_Periodic.htm (http://glendash.com/Dash_of_EMC/Log_Periodic/Log_Periodic.htm)

Hate to try to re-invent the wheel, so to speak, but funds are limited at this point. I'll be able to purchase the SA but I'm not in a position to spend another $800 to $1,500 or more on an antenna. And the Rigol EMC measurement kit, though fairly reasonably priced, may not be suitable for my needs. They don't tell you much about it. I'll have to investigate further to see exactly what it consists of.

I'll have to admit that, even though I'm probably not being real practical, the idea of designing and constructing my own EMC antenna is intriguing and revs up my motivation quite a bit. ( I LOVE anything RF!)

If anyone here has links or any suggestions at all, I'd like to hear them.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: olsenn on April 16, 2012, 01:24:51 pm
Quote
I manufacture prototype medical devices in the field of photo-biostimulation, employing arrays of 820nm infrared LEDs that are mounted in a custom-molded fiberglass casting that fits a particular patient's neck/shoulders. I'm in the medical trials phase presently. I'm treating patients with neurological disorders (like MS and PLS) by irradiating the cervical spine in order to dissolve scar tissue in the regions where the upper motor neurons and the lower motor neurons interact with each other. This takes time (many months) and requires that the patient wear the casting for 10 minutes, 3 or 4 times a day, while the little devils (240 infrared LEDs) happily irradiate their tissues. These are 100ma LEDs arranged in 16 strings of 15 LEDs each.


NukerDoggie, it sounds to me like you want to use this thing for advanced medical research? I would imagine someone of your expertise would have to be able to afford better equipment than a cheap Rigol SA? Furthermore aren't there requirements that your test equipment be certefied to NIST standards and capable of verifying FDA or other medical standards?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: NukerDoggie on April 16, 2012, 02:38:06 pm
Quote
I would imagine someone of your expertise would have to be able to afford better equipment than a cheap Rigol SA?

Yep - but if you've ever been thru the FDA approval process then you know how expensive it is! While you're in trials, you are allowed a somewhat relaxed set of regulations. But once you try to get to production, you will have had to meet all the most strenuous regulations and specs. For that phase I'll have to use an EMC lab.

There's never ANY guarantee you'll ever get out of the trial phase, either. I'm not made of money, dude! I've already spent more than $250K getting to this point. It's been a long hard slog aready. And there's not much money left in the till by now.

But there are rewards - the technology does work. We can break up sclerosis (scarring) of the upper and lower motor neurons, though it takes many months to accomplish a measure of such progress.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: NukerDoggie on April 16, 2012, 04:58:44 pm
Another point - all indications are, at this preliminary point anyway - that the Rigol DSA815 is inexpensive, but not necessarily "cheap", meaning that they certainly appear to have done a pretty decent job producing a worthwhile instrument. I hope it turns out to be true, anyway. I'm encouraged at this point.

For those interested in EMC, here's some pretty nice EMC probles I located:

http://www.beehive-electronics.com/probes.html (http://www.beehive-electronics.com/probes.html)

There are other mfgs of such probes too, and you can spend more than the Beehive ones cost.

The nice thing about this approach to EMC is that probes such as these are designed to EMI-test your device without the need for a Faraday cage. The probes are quite sensitive to very near-field EMF (especially when used with a preamp), but not so much to the rest of the RF garbage floating around your lab. This allows you to better pinpoint what's actually coming out of your DUT. These look like they would be a nice match to the new Rigol DSA815-TG.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: jahonen on April 16, 2012, 05:14:32 pm
In my experience, near field probing is quite difficult, at least to tell if the device will pass EMC limits or not. It takes quite a while to get a gut feeling what is normal and what is not.

This is because it is not usually the PCB what radiates. PCB directly radiates only if the layout is extremely poor. Furthermore, most PCB's have reactive nearfield which does not cause any EMC trouble but just shows up on near field probe making you think that this field is the source of a problem.

The dominant source (and much more difficult to get rid of) of the radiation is usually wires and cables attached to the device, so called common mode radiation. Much better indicator is to put each wire through those loop probes and then scan along the wire length to determine if the levels rise.

Regards,
Janne
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: nctnico on April 16, 2012, 05:44:06 pm
For serious EMC work you'll need a shielded chamber. Its better to locate a company nearby where they have such a chamber + equipment for rent. In one afternoon you know which frequencies are causing problems. With that knowledge you can use probes to find where the problems are and fix them.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: NukerDoggie on April 16, 2012, 07:36:00 pm
Great suggestions, jahonen. Very much appreciated!

nctnico - yes, for final certification I'm way less equipped and sophisticated than is required. I'll have to use a lab. But your approach sounds very practical indeed for pre-cert work, which is where I'm at now.

You guys are really helpful - thanks much!
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: NukerDoggie on April 17, 2012, 03:44:58 am
Very crude indications of the level of EMF radiated from my device:

What electronics hobbyist doesn't like to occasionally disturb civilian radio reception??? When I started out, we used vacuum tubes, the ones with plate caps. Get an old TV power supply transformer (about 750VAC), recify it with some big flippin' selenium rectifiers (you know, those ones with the big fins) and filter it with some oil-filled caps, and then use it to power a raunchy Hartley oscillator operating in the AM band. Makeshift antenna made out of left-over wire, and we were able to drive the neighbors daffy when they tried to listen to their AM radios. We made some vacuum tube plates glow red-hot too!

Anyway - that was in the 1960s. As a matter of fact, an ordinary AM/FM radio isn't a bad detector for lower-freq EMF. Real crude - but at least you can get a general idea of how badly your DUT is radiating RF in the lower frequencies.

Out of curiosity I hooked up a non-shielded power pigtail (48 inches long) to my prototype medical device (the one with the LEDs pulsing away at 24vdc and 752 hz. Then I turned it on and brought an AM radio closer and closer - about 18 inches away I began to very faintly hear the 752hz whine, and at 1 inch away the whine was pretty loud. You could see (hear, actually) the inverse logarithmic relationship between power and the distance from an RF source. On FM - nothing - no interference at all.

Anyway - the device seems fairly quiet, by this crude test. I've got a great antenna - the unshielded power pigtail. I'm only 'transmitting' 18 inches. I could interpret this rudimentary test to mean I've got only a small EMF problem. Granted, I'm missing a whole lotta frequencies in my test. And this can NEVER take the place of a truly scientific approach. But, it is encouraging.

Or is it? Comments?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: NukerDoggie on April 20, 2012, 04:13:23 pm
Well, I'm just 1 week away from ordering my new Rigol DSA815-TG. I got final approval from my boss (er, I mean, my wife). Of course, I DO wear the pants in the family ('cause she lets me). I plan to order a set of near-field EMC probes (Beehive-Electronics) and also a set of in-line fixed attenuators (JFW Industries) to go along with the instrument.

Pretty excited! I've lusted after a decent SA for several years, but could never justify the expense. Now I can! Thanks Rigol, and thanks Tequipment.net (I'm buying from them next week).
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: olsenn on April 20, 2012, 04:41:05 pm
Quote

Well, I'm just 1 week away from ordering my new Rigol DSA815-TG. I got final approval from my boss (er, I mean, my wife). Of course, I DO wear the pants in the family ('cause she lets me). I plan to order a set of near-field EMC probes (Beehive-Electronics) and also a set of in-line fixed attenuators (JFW Industries) to go along with the instrument.

Pretty excited! I've lusted after a decent SA for several years, but could never justify the expense. Now I can! Thanks Rigol, and thanks Tequipment.net (I'm buying from them next week).

You won't be dissapointed! I have been playing around with mine a fair bit and I am starting to get the hang of what all it can do. It is a very nice tool indeed. Please let me know what you think of those EMC (beehive) probes once you get them.

The real question is, does she let you NOT wear pants!
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: wkb on April 20, 2012, 05:35:01 pm
Quote

The real question is, does she let you NOT wear pants!

A kilt instead I presume?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: NukerDoggie on April 20, 2012, 06:07:15 pm
olsenn asks:

Quote
The real question is, does she let you NOT wear pants!

No! She doesn't like turkey legs! (yech!!!)

But I let her not wear anything she doesn't want. Wait a minute - double-negative there? Oh well.

I'm glad you're feeling better and better about your DSA815-TG. I really think Rigol's got a winner there, on specs and on price.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: NukerDoggie on April 26, 2012, 01:57:05 pm
Well, I've gone on the Rigol-USA waiting list, hoping to nab a DSA815-TG in about two weeks when they expect a shipment to arrive from the factory. Right now everyone is sold out of the instrument!

I placed my order today with Tequipment.net - lead-time is only 5-7 business days + shipping - so within a couple 'o' weeks I should be in EMC heaven!
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: NukerDoggie on May 03, 2012, 01:54:22 am
To the Moderator: I understand if you decide to move this post to another thread that is more relevant to the subject. I just wanted to get this experiment with RF shielding on record.

In my pre-compliance EMC efforts regarding my prototype medical device I must accurately measure the EMI being radiated from the DUT. To do that I need a good spectrum analyzer, an ultra-wide-band listening antenna and an RF isolation cage so as to block out virtually all RF but that coming from the DUT.

This post has to do with the RF isolation chamber. I have been experimenting with such a chamber and here are my findings, for the benefit of anyone else with similar needs.

I have a portable battery-powered transmitter-receiver pair mfg by Linx Technologies that operates at about 430 Mhz. These are being used as test assets to demonstrate when and if I have achieved a desired measure of RF isolation. I place the receiver in each of my experimental chambers and try to ping it with the transmitter from only a few feet away. If I can, then I have not achieved the level of RF isolation I am seeking. The receiver is extremely sensitive - able to receive signals at levels down to -118Dbm - which equates to little more than 1 picowatt - a very tiny signal level!

I have successfully tested this transmitter-receiver pair at a distance in excess of 2500 feet of separation from each other, with the standard whip antennas, just to illustrate how very sensitive the receiver really is. If I can get this receiver to 'go dead' within an RF isolation chamber then I have really accomplished something.

I have succeeded in doing just that. Here are the details:

I used 10 mil aluminum foil to construct a foil box with a lip all around where the lid clamps on, and a lid itself. The box itself has no holes or voids of any kind, except of course the open top where the lid fits onto it. The lid is clamped onto the box lip all around using large binder clips like you get at Staples office supplies. The box is a cube of about 18 inches square, but the shape doesn't matter. I use 10 to 12 binder clips to secure the lid in place all around, after placing the receiver inside the box. The homemade Faraday cage is not grounded. It need not be in order to snuff out RF radiation.

This cage demonstrates virtually 100% RF isolation at the 430 Mhz frequency. The transmitter is unable to reach the receiver at all. However, if I remove only a couple of binder clips from the lid and wiggle the lid edge just a little, then the signal gets thru. And I mean only a very, very slight gap being allowed between the box and lid.

But with all clamps in place, RF isolation is 'perfect'. No significant gaps exist for RF to leak into the cage, and the clamps also help ensure that box and lid are electrically One Conductor - very important for any Faraday cage.

 I was very pleased to discover that this very high level of RF isolation can be achieved so easily with materials that are cheap. Now, in practice, my isolation chamber won't be made of 10 mil foil, but rather of 0.090" or 0.125" aluminum plate, so as to make a chamber with good structural integrity. But you don't have to spend a lot of money - you just have to be very careful in the design and construction of your Faraday chamber.

Soon - a post on my EMC UWB antenna that is now under construction.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: amspire on May 03, 2012, 02:04:24 am
NukerDoggie, you may as well start a new thread on how your EMC work progresses.  I think it will be interesting and it deserves its own thread.

Richard.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: NukerDoggie on May 03, 2012, 03:30:57 am
I have started a new thread for the EMC stuff:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects-designs-and-technical-stuff/the-trials-and-rewards-of-emi-emc/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects-designs-and-technical-stuff/the-trials-and-rewards-of-emi-emc/)

I hope people will follow my progress there - I'll try to make it worthwhile to read.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: EEVblog on May 03, 2012, 04:36:44 am
Well, I've gone on the Rigol-USA waiting list, hoping to nab a DSA815-TG in about two weeks when they expect a shipment to arrive from the factory. Right now everyone is sold out of the instrument!

FYI, Rigol have promised me a DSA815 for review maybe this month, but yes, they seem to be hard to get at present.

Dave.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: cmatten on May 03, 2012, 10:42:36 am
Well, here's the response from Rigol on the DSA815:

See attached pdf from Rigol.

Looks pretty decent to me - what do the rest of you think?

The attached pdf shows the following (@ 750MHz)
RBW        Noise
100Hz     -94dBm
1K           -82dBm
10K         -73dBm
1M          -54dBm

Allowing for the 10dBm input attenuation, these figures are around 10db lower than expected.
Stated specifications
0 dB RF Attenuation, RBW=VBW=100 Hz, Sample Detector, Trace Average ? 50
1MHz to 1.5GHz  <-110 dBm+6 x (f/1GHz) dB, typical -115 dBm

Spec -110dBm + 6 x (.75/1.5 ) = -113dBm

Am I missing something?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: NukerDoggie on May 03, 2012, 03:52:04 pm
Hi Dave - that's great news about getting (eventually) a DSA815 for review and teardown!

My DSA815-TG is supposed to ship today from Tequipment.net. They have stock and the item has been pulled from stock for shipping. Its ground - so I should have the unit by Tuesday or Wednesday next week!
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: cmatten on May 04, 2012, 01:19:29 am
Well, here's the response from Rigol on the DSA815:

See attached pdf from Rigol.

Looks pretty decent to me - what do the rest of you think?

The attached pdf shows the following (@ 750MHz)
RBW        Noise
100Hz     -94dBm
1K           -82dBm
10K         -73dBm
1M          -54dBm

Allowing for the 10dBm input attenuation, these figures are around 10db lower than expected.
Stated specifications
0 dB RF Attenuation, RBW=VBW=100 Hz, Sample Detector, Trace Average ? 50
1MHz to 1.5GHz  <-110 dBm+6 x (f/1GHz) dB, typical -115 dBm

Spec -110dBm + 6 x (.75/1.5 ) = -113dBm

Am I missing something?

Hi

Looking at PDF,Reference level is 0dBm
We have to consider,what if decreasing reference level?

I want to see the measurement result,like SSG -110dBm sinewave
reference level -60dBm
span 10kHz
other setting auto

Noise floor level is not flat anyway,so high frequency's DANL is getting worse,I think.

Can someone with a DSA-815 check what they see? Make sure the input is terminated with a 50ohm dummy load.


I'm thinking about getting one of these, I'm a little concerned about the DANL.

My 20 year old HP8921A shows -119dBm @ 1KHz RBW (RBW is fixed based on span, for spans less than 1MHz RBW is 1KHz) with AVG set to 10. Other spans/RBW show expected values.

UPDATE, I think I found the reason for the DANL being higher (worse) than expected, the detector is set to peak (top right hand corner under Rigol /Status). I think this should be set to sample or rms. I think trace averaging is also turned off. The user guide on page 1-17 has AVG 1 shown just above the grid in the centre. For the screenshots provided by Rigol, there is no mention of Averaging either in the text or on the screenshots.

The spec also says Sample Detector and Trace Average of >50.

Looking forward to the review.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: cmatten on May 04, 2012, 08:40:34 am
Soon somebody up the good info,but at the moment,only this site's measurement result 49.5MHz,-129.68dBm is predictable the performance a bit.

http://www.rigol.com/prodserv/DSA800/ (http://www.rigol.com/prodserv/DSA800/)

Looking at this site,I decided to order DSA815-TG.

The setting of measuring 49.5MHz,-129.68dBm is

reference level -80dBm,average 3
span 5kHz
RBW 100Hz
VBW 1Hz
Sweep time 50s

Sweep time 50s is acceptable for me,merely to measure the small sinewave signal for me.
If VBW changes 10Hz,a bit noise floor raise,but it will be -130dBm like that.
Considering the price,I think it is not bad.

That looks a better. I thought is was due to the 10db attn, using peak detector (note they use PAvg in this example), trace averaging.

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: cmatten on May 04, 2012, 09:55:47 am
This example,Attn 0dB.
But,even if the internal attenuator is set up 10dB,almost noise floor is same,because the ordinary SA's IF amplifier automatically compensate it.
My R3361B can't set up 0dB attenuation actually.only from 10dB.
It is rather safe.

I don't know the difference of noise floor between peak-detector and sample detector,sorry.
I usually only use R3361B's normal detector,I think it is peak detector.
Even though R3361B is old one,but it has quasi-peak detector up to 3.6GHz,but
I am HAM,so I only use as my hobby experiment.
If DSA815-TG is no problem,I will release R3361B.It is too heavy.LOL

Now,I am waiting for DSA815-TG.

Everybody maybe notice that,TG level is only from -20dBm to 0dBm.
Usually TG level of SA  is from-50dBm to 0dBm.

My concerns is rather Tracking generator's frequency accuracy,whether we can manually change TG's frequency to just center frequency,or TG's frequency is no problem,once calibrating.

Anyway,when I receive it,I will measure my homebrew 7MHz BPF(BW 100kHz,-6dB,insertion loss 5.5dB).
This BPF is already get the results,so I can check the performance  of DSA815-TG.

I'm also a ham (VK2KCM), for the price the DSA-815-TG seems to be the best SA I've come across. I was looking at the getting a second hand HP unit, however I like the large colour screen, lan access, being able to save screenshot to usb that this unit has.

My HP8921A has 40,20 and 0db input attn. The noise level increase by 20 and 40db when the attn is set to either of these.
The units noise level is still the same, however it need to add the input attn to the reported level.

For the different detector type, check the DSA-815 userguide on page 2-25.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: EEVblog on May 04, 2012, 10:20:02 am
Hi Dave - that's great news about getting (eventually) a DSA815 for review and teardown!

My DSA815-TG is supposed to ship today from Tequipment.net. They have stock and the item has been pulled from stock for shipping. Its ground - so I should have the unit by Tuesday or Wednesday next week!

Mine will take some time because they have to find a "spare" unit. I guess they can't just take one out of stock and ship it?
Anyway, they have promised that, and a DS4000 sig gen "mid to late May".
Then one of the new 2000 series scopes when they are available.

Dave.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: olsenn on May 04, 2012, 12:59:52 pm
Quote
Mine will take some time because they have to find a "spare" unit. I guess they can't just take one out of stock and ship it?
Anyway, they have promised that, and a DS4000 sig gen "mid to late May".
Then one of the new 2000 series scopes when they are available.

Dave.

I think this just goes to show, Dave, that even though you (and your forum) are largely responcible for forcing Rigol to sell their DS1102E for the price of the DS1052E, you have given Rigol more good publicity than any advertisement on a commercial website.

I can't wait to see what my DSA815's insides look like... and by that I mean I can and will impatiently wait to see what your DSA815's insides look like.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: olsenn on May 05, 2012, 10:33:21 pm
Another nice thing I just wanted to point about about this thing which i hadn't realized at first, is that it includes a 1Hz resolution frequency counter functional up to its full bandwidth of 1.5GHz.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: cmatten on May 06, 2012, 07:30:20 am
Another nice thing I just wanted to point about about this thing which i hadn't realized at first, is that it includes a 1Hz resolution frequency counter functional up to its full bandwidth of 1.5GHz.

Lock the SA to a GPS reference using the 10MHz input and you have a very accurate frequency counter.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: olsenn on May 06, 2012, 09:29:23 pm
Quote
Lock the SA to a GPS reference using the 10MHz input and you have a very accurate frequency counter.

I actually own a 10MHz rubidium frequency reference, so I'll just use that if I need a precise frequency reading
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: NukerDoggie on May 10, 2012, 02:19:45 am
My DSA815-TG arrived today from Tequipment.net! It looks pretty good sitting there in my lab. In a day or two I'll warm it up and start getting familiar with it. My first impression after holding it in my hands and doing a physical examination:

This is a very good quality instrument, quite heavy, very well made, attractive - professional. By no means a "cheap" imitation of a quality western-made instrument. Rigol - hats off to you! And many thanks to Tequipment.net for snagging one for me. (they're not paying me anything or giving me any discount for promoting them, by the way).
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Attorney on May 11, 2012, 03:19:30 pm
Getting in way late on the discussion.  Someone earlier mentioned the Signal Hound.  I looked at it and it would probably do fine for my purposes since it's got good RBW characteristics and I do a lot of experimental oscillator work.  Where it falls short is in SPAN.  Really falls short if you need a window for wideband measuements greater than about 200 kHz.  Beyond 200 kHz, it goes into a special "fast scan" mode that disables the actual I/Q receiver and uses just an IF power detector -- good up to 200 MHz (with a 1.5 s scan time...).  As you go past 200 MHz, the RBW becomes worsens (5 MHz) and the scan time increases more.  The Signal Hound is a true direct RF-sampled SDR receiver and is probably better characterized as a narrow-spectrum analyzer.

I need RBW better than about 30 Hz.  I looked at the high-end Rigol which has 10 Hz RBW.  Looks like a great analyzer but with TG, price is about USD $6K.  I went back & forth whether proceed with a used Agilent (N1996A) with nearly identical specs and features -- or the Rigol.  I ended up purchasing a 6 GHz Agilent since I'm unfamilar with Rigol's long-term after-sale support, and the Agilent does have a slight edge in some performance areas like screen detail where it's XGA, versus SVGA resolution.  Now, in terms of actual sampling limitation, the screen may be a non-issue.   
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Rufus on May 13, 2012, 01:41:07 pm
(The condition,when I checked the noise floor)

Thanks for posting the information and observations.

Initially it wasn't clear to me if VSWR was a built in feature or if it came with the VSWR bridge kit. Updates to vendor web sites indicated the VSWR option is $545 and you need a bridge ($705 for their VB1020), hopefully the firmware option would work with other bridges.

For that kind of money this http://sdr-kits.net/VNWA3_Description.html (http://sdr-kits.net/VNWA3_Description.html) has much more utility over a bit more limited frequency range.

I would imagine 50/75 ohm is a built in feature for use with an impedance adapter (as supplied in the utility kit). When you select it do the numbers or trace move by a couple of db?

Rigol seem to have copied Agilent's X 2000/3000 pricing policy with a low base price and expensive firmware options. The AMK+EMI+VSWR options more than double the price of the unit.

I will be getting an 815-TG soon.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: olsenn on May 13, 2012, 02:15:49 pm
Quote
About demodulation function...
I tried to use it as FM radio with FM antenna,but I can't receive even the strongest signal station here.
Usually I can receive FM radio with R3361B,setting up RBW and VBW etc.
The sensitivity is quite bad,or my function is broken?LOL
Maybe some made-up FM strong modulated signals,like set up by DG4000 series something can be decoded,but as FM radio,it has problem,I think.
If anybody can receive FM station with FM ANT,plz let me know.

I have no problem picking up FM stations in my area (NS, Canada) with just a plain piece of wire as an antenna. Make sure you set the center frequency to the desired station and adjust the span to 10KHz or whatnot, and also, just in case you forgot, make sure to turn the headohone output on and the volume way up.

In reference to the 50/75 ohm selection, the input is fixed at 50 ohms, so changing the software to denote 75 ohms only adjusts what's on the display to match what WOULD appear if it was in fact 75 ohms... this is useful if you are using a 50 - 75 ohm imedance adapter. Changing this setting is very similar to changing the probe attenuation factor on an oscilloscope.

I would highly recommend picking up a good 20db - 30db attenuator to leave attached to the input... you don't want to overpower this thing!
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Rufus on May 13, 2012, 03:41:51 pm
I don't know 3.0,but I am using VNWA2.6,and It can measure S21 etc,and of course,
connecting ANT,and it can calculate S11,and other directly put out VSWR etc info.
Now only complete one (not kit) is sold,so a bit expensive,but VNWA is also so educative.
it is worth to get it.

The 3.0 is not a big improvement over previous versions. It costs $20 more than the DSA815 VSWR firmware option so I don't think it is expensive.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: olsenn on May 14, 2012, 01:12:27 am
Quote
And maybe it is important for you and me...There is no PC software in the original CD.
I expected it has PC software...but no PC software.
I think,we can use Ultra Spectrum,but not sure.

You can obtain IVI drivers and LabView drivers/examples here: http://int.rigol.com/support/ivi/more.html (http://int.rigol.com/support/ivi/more.html)
VISA commands are also accepted by the device and can be found in the programming guide/manual on Rigol's site as well.

If you hear anything new about UltraSpectrum please share it!
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Rufus on May 16, 2012, 10:08:54 am
(The condition,when I checked the noise floor)

Result from mine with the same setup
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: cliffyk on May 16, 2012, 07:05:38 pm
Hello all,

I am a newcomer to your group and like several of you have just purchased the DSA815-TG spectrum analyzer, for me a replacement for a 7+ year-old Instek GSP-810; that I was fortunate enough to be able to sell on eBay for US$1300, greatly subsidising the cost of the DSA815.  I find it to be a very capable instrument, far superior to the Instek which cost $2500 when new.

Also like another poster I too have a rubidium standard and thought I would post my findings.

Here's a shot of the test setup:

(http://www.paladinmicro.com/images/Others/DSA815-RubStd-01.jpg)

And the 10 MHz reference at 2 kHz span:

(http://www.paladinmicro.com/images/Others/DSA815-RubStd-02.jpg)

You can see that the peak marker reads 9.999973 MHz, 27 Hz low, however in calculating the instruments marker uncertainty according the for formula presented in the specifications:

± frequency indication × frequency reference uncertainty + 1% × span + 10% × resolution bandwidth + span/(# points -1)

where:
   
    frequency indication = 9999973 Hz
    frequency reference uncertainty = 1e-6 (it's brand new)
    span = 2000 Hz
    resolution bandwidth = 100 Hz
    # points = 601 (from the instrument specs)

I get: 9999973 * 1e-6 + 0.01 * 2000 + 0.1 * 100 + 2000 / (601 - 1) = ± 43 Hz, making the -27 Hz error well within spec.

I tested several other span/rbw combinations and found the marker readouts to all be within spec...

=================================================================

Swallowtail333, I would be very interested in how well Ultra Spectrum works with the '815; please let us know.

I have also contacted Rigol to ask if it would be possible to add an "inverse" display function in any upcoming firmware update as I feel a "black on white" display would be much easier on the eyes than the black screen--which I find to be an odd emulation of one the technological limitations of CRT technology.

This would be much easier on my eyes:

(http://www.paladinmicro.com/images/Others/DSA815-RubStd-02i.jpg)

It reminds me of the control software provided with a DDS signal generator I obtained some time back, the publisher went so far as to create virtual legacy style frequency range selection buttons--on a fully digital instrument?:

(http://www.paladinmicro.com/images/Others/PCGU1000Range-01.png)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Rufus on May 16, 2012, 08:32:41 pm
    frequency reference uncertainty = 1e-6 (it's brand new)

Measure the 10MHz ref out and you will know. Mine looked 20Hz out although I would have to check the counter calibration to be sure.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: cliffyk on May 17, 2012, 01:21:59 am
I had meant to do just that however I got sidetracked.  Here is the 10 MHz rubidium standard (Input A) and the 10 MHz clock output of the DSA815 (Input B) being compared (A - B) via an Iwatsu SC-7202 counter.

(http://www.paladinmicro.com/images/Others/DSA815-RubStd-00a.jpg)

You can see the DSA815 is running 23.5 Hz (2.35 ppm) faster than the standard--very close to your observation, and slightly higher than the aging rate though no "factory calibration" specification is available, that I can find.  Correcting my calculation results in:

9999973 * 2.3e-6 + 0.01 * 2000 + 0.1 * 100 + 2000 / (601 - 1) = ± 56 Hz

Here is the clock error, again using the Iwatsu counter but with the inputs reversed; A is the DSA815 internal clock out, B is the standard; displayed as A / B:

(http://www.paladinmicro.com/images/Others/DSA815-RubStd-03.jpg)

Correcting the marker display for the known clock error = 9999973 * 1.00000235 = 9999996.49**, leaving 3.5 Hz to processing issues within the DSA815.


So now I'm on a roll, let's use the rubidium standard as the clock input for the DSA815 (which BTW worked quite nicely with the standard's 0.55 VRMS @ 50? output, split through a Mini-Circuits -3.1 dB unit [0.38 VRMS]), and compare the TG output @ 10 MHz to the rubidium standard:

(http://www.paladinmicro.com/images/Others/DSA815-RubStd-04.jpg)

The 10 MHz standard is feeding Input A and the DSA815 clock in, the DSA815 TG is feeding Input B, the counter is set to display A - B with a 10 s gate--you can see there is 0.0 Hz error.

In the last here is the spectra of the 10 MHz rubidium standard, captured using the same signal as the clock input to the DSA815--note the peak marker frequency of 9.999996 MHz.  Curiously close to the the corrected marker display** calculated above is it not?

(http://www.paladinmicro.com/images/Others/DSA815-RubStd-05.jpg)

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: cliffyk on May 17, 2012, 04:22:49 am
I don not mean to be boring, however as compared to my old Instek GSP-810 this is fun:

Here's a trace of my pirate FM station, with the 19kHz stereo pilot only, grabbed with the DSA815, and using the rubidium standard as the clock source:

(http://www.paladinmicro.com/images/Others/PalKDOG 19kHz only.jpg)

Here is a similar shot from the GSP-810 app I developed over the years:

(http://www.paladinmicro.com/images/eBaySeller/AppScreenShot.png)

I hope to create a new instrument interface for the GSP-810 application so that I might use it with the DSA815...
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Rufus on May 17, 2012, 08:32:54 pm
You can see the DSA815 is running 23.5 Hz (2.35 ppm) faster than the standard--very close to your observation, and slightly higher than the aging rate though no "factory calibration" specification is available, that I can find. 

Measuring its own 10MHz out with 100Hz RBW & VBW the peak function always put a marker on exactly 10.000000MHz. The marker counter function mostly showed 9.999999MHz occasionally jittering -1 to +2 Hz.

My counter and a function generator with TXCO were calibrated against GPS (a Thunderbolt) a few months ago, the counter thinks the function generator is 0.06Hz high at 10MHz so I think the cal is probably still good. The counter thinks the DSA ref out is 20.2Hz high.

One thing I noticed, turning on the TG shifts the display and all measurements by 150Hz - that looks bugged to me.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: cliffyk on May 17, 2012, 11:55:38 pm
I have not yet measured the DSA815's internal clock out fed back into its input, my tests were comparing the TG output with the rubidium standard's output--with the standard being applied to the DSA815's external clock--sounds like yet another interesting test though. 

I also observed a shift when the TG was switched on, however far less that the 150 Hz you recorded, the shift on my instrument was only in the order of 2-3 Hz...
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Rufus on May 18, 2012, 01:30:03 am
I also observed a shift when the TG was switched on, however far less that the 150 Hz you recorded, the shift on my instrument was only in the order of 2-3 Hz...

The amount of shift varies with the setup, haven't figured out exactly how. Span, RWB, and SWT make a difference.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: cliffyk on May 18, 2012, 05:21:48 am
My first SA was Tek 496P, purchased 18 or so years ago for $5300 which was at the time a deal.  I sold it in 2005 for $2500 and replaced it with the Instek GSP-810 (breaking even more or less), and as stated in a previous post recently sold the GSP-810 for $1300--meaning that I have a net current expense for the DSA-815 of $300 after eBay, PayPal, and UPS got their cut.

My point is that from a performance and overall capability perspective the DSA815 is 2 or 3 (perhaps several) orders of magnitude superior to the 1985 Tek 496P, and at least one order superior to the GSP-810, and cost 1/2 to 1/4 of what its predecessors cost. 

So here we are discussing "inaccuracies" of tens and hundreds of Hz, when the best my previous spectrum analyzers could hope to muster were errors in thousands, or even tens of thousands , of Hertz...

Short story, I really like this instrument!!!
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: cliffyk on May 18, 2012, 05:47:27 am
This is neat...

I run a small (8W) neighborhood pirate FM station and do my best to keep the signal from not interfering with commercial stations; and making sure it meets FCC specs just-in-case. 

Using the DSA815 N dB BW function, and MaxHold,  I could easily and accurately record the occupied bandwidth (the FCC spec is 240kHz at -25dB).

(http://www.paladinmicro.com/images/ForumPosts/KDOGOccBW-01.jpg)

What I found was that even though my modulation meter said I was kissing 75% I was only occupying 183kHz.  A little bit of tweaking my compressor/limiter gained me a bit more punch...

I like this little sucka'
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: olsenn on May 18, 2012, 05:21:30 pm
Rigol seems to have re-designed their webpage (www.rigolna.com (http://www.rigolna.com)). They have like 6 different websites and at any point in time one is more up-to-date than the others. As of now it looks like this one is the latest and greatest for getting new info about the DSA815 or other Rigol products.

Also, I notice that a version of UltraSpectrum is available for download (free) on this site as well! Can someone tell me if this is the same as the one people are paying $300 for?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: cliffyk on May 19, 2012, 01:12:30 am
I downloaded the UltraSpectrum application (15-day trial) and though I have just played with it a bit I have not yet found anything about it that is worth $260.

To get it to work with the DSA815 you have to edit the UltraSpectrum.ini file it will load into the C:\Program Files\RIGOL Technologies, Inc\Ultra Sigma\Instrument Tools folder.  The highlighted line shown below must be added to indicate the DSA815 is a supported instrument:

(http://www.paladinmicro.com/images/Others/DSA815-UltraSpect-03.jpg)

I also shortened up the folder and application name that had both been absurdly long;

The folder being RIGOL_DSA1000A_Tools_UltraSpectrum_V00.01.00.10

With the .exe, .ini and .aliases files being the same with the appropriate extension.

Here is what the "Base" screen looks like:

(http://www.paladinmicro.com/images/Others/DSA815-UltraSpect-01.jpg)

Note that none of the analyzer's settings are populated, I don't know if this is an issue with the '815 or the software.

There is an "Advanced" screen also:

(http://www.paladinmicro.com/images/Others/DSA815-UltraSpect-02.jpg)

I was unable to make anything on the lower panel work, however I must admit I have not read the help file as yet.

I was able to compile, debug, and modify their VB6 demo application to talk to the DSA815 via the ethernet connection, adding commands to grab the center and span frequencies,  RBW, etc.  I am going to work on reconfiguring my Instek GSP-810 app to work with the '815, should be fairly easy.

(http://www.paladinmicro.com/images/Others/DSA815-VB6Demo-01.jpg)

Here is the trace data retrieved from the instrument, plotted in Excel:

(http://www.paladinmicro.com/images/Others/DSA815-VB6Demo-02.jpg)

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: echomancer on May 20, 2012, 04:39:36 pm
Quote
About demodulation function...
I tried to use it as FM radio with FM antenna,but I can't receive even the strongest signal station here.
Usually I can receive FM radio with R3361B,setting up RBW and VBW etc.
The sensitivity is quite bad,or my function is broken?LOL
Maybe some made-up FM strong modulated signals,like set up by DG4000 series something can be decoded,but as FM radio,it has problem,I think.
If anybody can receive FM station with FM ANT,plz let me know.

I have no problem picking up FM stations in my area (NS, Canada) with just a plain piece of wire as an antenna. Make sure you set the center frequency to the desired station and adjust the span to 10KHz or whatnot, and also, just in case you forgot, make sure to turn the headohone output on and the volume way up.

I picked this unit up this weekend at the Dayton Hamvention and had an opportunity to spend some time with one of the lead engineers from Rigol China.  Great guys, and really enthusiastic about bringing products that "amateurs" can afford! 

I wanted to know if you (or anyone) could post a screen shot of your DSA815 while looking at the local broadcast radio spectrum.  Mine doesn't show peaks the way I would expect.  Unfortunately, I don't see that Rigol has published the sensitivity readings anywhere.  When compared to my friend's IFR 1200S using the same antenna, his monitor clearly shows the FM stations WELL above the noise floor while sitting in his basement.  Mine shows barely one peak.  I'm sure his IFR is more sensitive, but I'm surprised.

I'm going to try a longer antenna today to see.  Also, how long was the wire you attached?

I'm going to do some tests and will post a screen shot later.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: cliffyk on May 20, 2012, 05:33:00 pm
The spectra in my above post re: the Ultra Spectrum software are all of the local FM band, however here are a couple screen dumps:

the entire 88 - 108 MHz band:
(http://www.paladinmicro.com/images/Others/DSA815-LclFM-00a.jpg)

A PBS station in Jacksonville FL (35 miles away) broadcasting at 89.9 (circled above) in both analog and HD:
(http://www.paladinmicro.com/images/Others/DSA815-LclFM-899.jpg)

Note that I set the vertical scale to 4db/div.

The analyzer was fed from a 3/4 wave "slim-jim" tuned to 104.0 MHz

(http://www.paladinmicro.com/images/Others/SlimJim01.jpg)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Rufus on May 23, 2012, 10:53:10 am
I'm still liking my 815-TG, owners keep posting if you find anything interesting.

I have confirmed the 10MHz reference on mine is about 2.0 ppm high.

I have also noticed it is a bit fussy about USB memory sticks. I have one which is fine in a couple of other instruments and it works in the 815 if inserted while powering up but inserting while powered it causes the 815 to lock up for at least a minute before deciding no stick is present. Another stick I tried works fine.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: cliffyk on May 23, 2012, 01:59:09 pm
I am having a ball with mine (also a '815-TG)--far superior to the Instek GSP-810 it replaced, which BTW continues to be sold for more than twice the cost of the DSA815.  For me the TG is an essential component of any spectrum analyzer.

I have not yet had the jump drive issue you reported.  I thought that perhaps it was similar to my Lecroy Wavejet 322 which computes a checksum for each drive when inserted, which with larger drives (2GB+) can be a mild annoyance--I have a 128MB stick I use with the '322 because of this.

However the capacity issue does not seem to be the case with the '815.  I have found that a drive with a large number of folders and files does slow things down a bit--but not as much as you have found.  Pulling up the "drive info" does get very slow with a lot of folders and files.

I am still working on my own software but have been slowed down by a client that decided to update their 50 workstations from XP to Win 7 by themselves.  "To save money" they told me--guess what isn't going to work out as planned?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Bored@Work on May 23, 2012, 04:16:42 pm

I have also noticed it is a bit fussy about USB memory sticks. I have one which is fine in a couple of other instruments and it works in the 815 if inserted while powering up but inserting while powered it causes the 815 to lock up for at least a minute before deciding no stick is present.

Try to write a fresh file system on the stick under Windows. Many USB sticks come pre-formated with a file system that is not exactly right. Typical it is good enough to be recognized by Windows, but other implementations, e.g. in embedded systems, get upset about some missing or deviating details.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Rufus on May 23, 2012, 06:05:30 pm

I have also noticed it is a bit fussy about USB memory sticks. I have one which is fine in a couple of other instruments and it works in the 815 if inserted while powering up but inserting while powered it causes the 815 to lock up for at least a minute before deciding no stick is present.

Try to write a fresh file system on the stick under Windows. Many USB sticks come pre-formated with a file system that is not exactly right. Typical it is good enough to be recognized by Windows, but other implementations, e.g. in embedded systems, get upset about some missing or deviating details.

It is happy with that stick if it is inserted while the SA powers up so I can't see it being upset by the format or contents. I tried some more, the SA locks up when the stick is inserted. Sometimes it detected the stick after about 30 seconds, one time I gave up waiting after 6 minutes. Another stick I have is reliably detected in 2-3 seconds.

The stick it doesn't like is a Kingston micro-SD reader, however, it is happy with the same micro-SD card plugged into a dirt cheap no name SD card reader.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: cliffyk on May 23, 2012, 06:53:02 pm
I have been able to duplicate what you report, using a cheap Twin-MOS "8-in-1" (I never have figured out what the "8" are?)  card reader, and SD cards none of which worked at all even after waiting several minutes.  However the same "8-in-1" thingy worked fine with the various CF cards I have accumulated.

All of the dozen or so USB jump drives I have work fine.

I had a somewhat similar problem with a Lecroy 9354L 'scope that had a PCMCIA card slot requiring SRAM.  It worked fine with the older SRAM cards having replaceable backup batteries, however it froze when an SRAM card having a rechargeable non-replaceable batteries was inserted.  Yet when the rechargeables was inserted before powering up the 'scope it worked fine. 

What I found was that the initial +5V current draw of the rechargeable cards was pulling the 'scopes +5V bus low enough to glitch the instrument's microcontroller.  Oddly the rechargeable cards worked fine with the older Lecroy 9400 series 'scopes...
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: T4P on May 23, 2012, 06:57:36 pm
I have been able to duplicate what you report, using a cheap Twin-MOS "8-in-1" (I never have figured out what the "8" are?)  card reader, and SD cards none of which worked at all even after waiting several minutes.  However the same "8-in-1" thingy worked fine with the various CF cards I have accumulated.

All of the dozen or so USB jump drives I have work fine.

I had a somewhat similar problem with a Lecroy 9354L 'scope that had a PCMCIA card slot requiring SRAM.  It worked fine with the older SRAM cards having replaceable backup batteries, however it froze when an SRAM card having a rechargeable non-replaceable batteries was inserted.  Yet when the rechargeables was inserted before powering up the 'scope it worked fine. 

What I found was that the initial +5V current draw of the rechargeable cards was pulling the 'scopes +5V bus low enough to glitch the instrument's microcontroller.  Oddly the rechargeable cards worked fine with the older Lecroy 9400 series 'scopes...

Twin-MOS ...  :o I recall having a SD card reader of the same "name"
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: olsenn on May 24, 2012, 07:02:27 pm
Quote
I downloaded the UltraSpectrum application (15-day trial) and though I have just played with it a bit I have not yet found anything about it that is worth $260.


A similar setup to UltraView (for their multimeters) I expect. For educational purposes, try setting your clock back after installing the 15-day trial (while it's still active) or more appropriately using a program like RunAsDate to run UltraSpectrum/UltraSigma passing it a year of 1990, and you will have a perpetual license without having to pay $260 for it.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: cliffyk on May 24, 2012, 07:56:59 pm
Quote
I downloaded the UltraSpectrum application (15-day trial) and though I have just played with it a bit I have not yet found anything about it that is worth $260.


A similar setup to UltraView (for their multimeters) I expect. For educational purposes, try setting your clock back after installing the 15-day trial (while it's still active) or more appropriately using a program like RunAsDate to run UltraSpectrum/UltraSigma passing it a year of 1990, and you will have a perpetual license without having to pay $260 for it.

Thank you for the suggestions, further proof that great minds do think alike...

As an educational experience I tried RunAsDate (RaD)--aren't NirSoft's utilities amazing?--however the EXE cannot be launched independently of Ultra Sigma (USig), it pops up a dialog stating so.  When installed it creates an Ultra Spectrum.ini file in theC:\RIGOL Techologies, Inc\Instrument Tools folder,  and USig launches it from a FQPN specified in the Ultra Spectrum.ini file (ToolsSetupPath).  I added RunAsDate (with appropriate parameters) to the FQPN in the .ini file however  Ultra Sigma then did not even show Ultra Spectrum (USpc) as an available tool on the Tools drop down menu.

I even, again as an educational exercise, wrapped RaD and USpc into a VBScript, compiled to an EXE named the same as the original USpc executable.  This time it appeared on the USig Tools menu.  The compiled script launched, then launched Ultra Spectrum which complained it could not find the instrument (TCPIP connected in my case, I suspect Ultra Sigma establishes the socket provides it to Ultra Spectrum) .

If I felt there were some overwhelming need for me to utilise such an underwhelming application ( Ultra Spectrum) I might have gone further, however as my re-written GSP-810 application will do all that USpc does--and whatever I might like to do in the future--the point of diminishing returns has been passed...
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: RigolUS_Apps on June 21, 2012, 08:09:58 pm
Hello Everyone,

I just wanted to say thank you all for taking such interest in the DSA-815TG!

Just a quick reminder.. I've seen a few Blogs posted where people get angry and frustrated by an instrument or situation (not just Rigol). We try our very best to return every call and email within a few hours.

If you have any questions, please feel free to contact Rigol USA.

We are here to help!

Jason

jason_chonko@rigoltech.com
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: bingo600 on June 27, 2012, 04:11:37 pm
According to this (German)
http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/261382#2732635 (http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/261382#2732635)

There ought to be a new firmware out

/Bingo
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: olsenn on June 27, 2012, 04:20:03 pm
Quote
According to this (German)
http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/261382#2732635 (http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/261382#2732635)

There ought to be a new firmware out


Apparently it is firmware v1.05 and it fixes bugs in AM/FM demodulation (works fine for me already) and adds PASS/FAIL functionality.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: echomancer on June 28, 2012, 05:37:48 pm
Do we contact Rigol and request it?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Gunb on June 28, 2012, 10:32:15 pm
I would contact support.

After flashing I find out much better behaviour of the FM/AM demodulation.


Rgds
Gunb
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Rufus on June 30, 2012, 12:33:22 am
I would contact support.

I did after creating an account at the http://www.rigol.com (http://www.rigol.com) customer center.

Two days later no response, not even and acknowledgement that I posted a question.

I also mentioned a nasty DSA-815(-TG) bug.

Hook up the TG to the input. Set full span, set the attenuator to 0db and pre-amp on. Set the TG to 0db. Set the sweep time to something long, say 1000 seconds.  Turn on the TG and now your analyser is locked up for 1000 seconds. It responds to nothing but the power button and if you have it set to restore the power off settings it will lock up again as soon as you power on.

To regain control remove the input signal and when you turn off the TG you will get one "IF signal out of range" warning message presumably referring to the continuous overload which locked up the analyser.

This seems not to be TG specific. If you set zero span and put in a constant signal at the centre frequency it also locks up beeping at you, sometimes with and sometimes without showing the "IF signal out of range" warning.

Smells like a constant IF overload tries to show a zillion "IF signal out of range" warnings which locks up the UI without managing to show one of them or beep if the TG is on.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Gunb on July 01, 2012, 10:09:23 pm
I would contact support.

I did after creating an account at the http://www.rigol.com (http://www.rigol.com) customer center.

Two days later no response, not even and acknowledgement that I posted a question.


It depends whom you've contacted. Well know that Chinese support does not work,  you should contact local support. Where are you from?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: olsenn on July 05, 2012, 12:25:03 pm
If anyone figures out if there actually is a new firmware, and where to obtain it, please let us know!
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Rufus on July 05, 2012, 12:42:57 pm
There is 1.05 firmware which is supposed to improve demodulation.

I was emailed it indirectly from Rigol in Germany after approaching Batronix where the SA came from.

Could someone confirm or deny this bug.

Apply a -10dbm signal frequency doesn't really matter (10MHz). Turn on the pre-amp and press Auto.

When it has found the signal reduce the input attenuator till it starts beeping and showing IF signal out of range messages.

Then set zero span.

My experience is the analyzer will stop updating the trace, beep continuously and not respond to any key except the power on/off button.

It is another version of the problem with the TG providing a continuous mixer overload  locking up the UI.

You need to remove the input signal to recover.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Gunb on July 06, 2012, 08:59:13 pm

I also mentioned a nasty DSA-815(-TG) bug.

Hook up the TG to the input. Set full span, set the attenuator to 0db and pre-amp on. Set the TG to 0db. Set the sweep time to something long, say 1000 seconds.  Turn on the TG and now your analyser is locked up for 1000 seconds. It responds to nothing but the power button and if you have it set to restore the power off settings it will lock up again as soon as you power on.

To regain control remove the input signal and when you turn off the TG you will get one "IF signal out of range" warning message presumably referring to the continuous overload which locked up the analyser.

This seems not to be TG specific. If you set zero span and put in a constant signal at the centre frequency it also locks up beeping at you, sometimes with and sometimes without showing the "IF signal out of range" warning.

Smells like a constant IF overload tries to show a zillion "IF signal out of range" warnings which locks up the UI without managing to show one of them or beep if the TG is on.

Hi Rufus,

The first bug you've described I can confirm. The analyzer is dead during the 1000s and as you described accurately after power-on it comes back to this state.

The second bug I cannot not reproduce. I'm also using firmware 1.05.

Your last mentioned bug I try to check the next days.

Did you already report the "1000s" bug to Rigol?


Kind regards
Gunb
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Rufus on July 06, 2012, 10:35:06 pm
The first bug you've described I can confirm. The analyzer is dead during the 1000s and as you described accurately after power-on it comes back to this state.

The second bug I cannot not reproduce. I'm also using firmware 1.05.

Thanks for that. I asked Batronix to pass on the TG version of the bug to Rigol Germany. They have seen the report but couldn't reproduce it. They contacted me directly and I suggested they tried the auto then zero span version because it is simpler to describe. They couldn't reproduce that either and at the moment they are saying my analyzer must be faulty and send it back for repair.

I don't believe it is faulty. I'm sure when there is a permanent mixer overload the sweeping part of the firmware sends many requests to the GUI part to beep and display the "Intermediate frequency out of range" warning and the GUI locks up trying to handle them or something like that is going on.

Please try the zero span thing. Make sure the centre frequency is on your signal and reduce the attenuator till you get beeps and IF out of range warnings as it sweeps past the centre.  Strangely if you turn on the TG the beeping and warnings stop - which is another bug. Regardless of the TG being on or off if you now set zero span it will stop updating the trace and the UI will completely lock up until you remove the signal.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: olsenn on July 11, 2012, 09:07:32 pm
Can somebody please post the 1.05 firmware on this site?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: olsenn on August 04, 2012, 10:34:02 pm
Dave, are you going to review/teardown your demo DSA815? I'd love to see what its insides look like! Cheers.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: SeanB on August 05, 2012, 06:36:55 am
He said he cannot break those cal seals ( even though Mike has given a demo on how) and show it. A request from the distributor and a pretty reasonable one. He can find bugs and break it because of that though ;)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: RCMR on August 05, 2012, 07:43:21 am
He said he cannot break those cal seals ( even though Mike has given a demo on how) and show it. A request from the distributor and a pretty reasonable one. He can find bugs and break it because of that though ;)
Shame -- I'm in the market for a new SA and the Rigol was on my list -- but I won't pull the trigger yet -- I want to see what's inside first.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: EEVblog on August 05, 2012, 09:35:13 am
He said he cannot break those cal seals ( even though Mike has given a demo on how) and show it. A request from the distributor and a pretty reasonable one. He can find bugs and break it because of that though ;)

I never said I can't break the cal seals?
Yes, I intend to teardown and eventually review these units.
Although Mike has already done great teardown on the function gen, so is there a point of me doing that one?

Dave.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: kg4arn on August 05, 2012, 01:17:04 pm
My vote is to omit repeating the tear down of the function generator.

I'd rather the time spent on demonstrating the functionality of the Fgen and how clean its output is.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: KTP on August 05, 2012, 01:21:49 pm
My vote is to omit repeating the tear down of the function generator.

I'd rather the time spent on demonstrating the functionality of the Fgen and how clean its output is.

100% agree.  Seeing the inside is great and all, but there is only so much of "it's heavy" that potential buyers find useful.

I want to see how well it works.  Jitter, slew rate, interface bugs...
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: olsenn on August 21, 2012, 04:45:14 pm
Any updates Dave?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Dread on September 09, 2012, 05:54:04 pm
Well, here's the response from Rigol on the DSA815:

See attached pdf from Rigol.

Looks pretty decent to me - what do the rest of you think?

Slow....
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Lukas on September 10, 2012, 04:31:55 pm
Photos of the inside: https://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/261382#2828679 (https://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/261382#2828679)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: olsenn on September 10, 2012, 05:49:56 pm
Quote
Photos of the inside: https://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/261382#2828679 (https://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/261382#2828679)

Thanks for the pictures!

As far as sweep speed is concearned, I do not find it to be too bad at all. Granted, I have no high-end SA's to compare to, but there are certainly no better alternatives in the same price range. If I need to see a precise frequency responce I will lower the RBW, and if I need a fast changing signal, I will increase it.  I can usually get all the information I need with a sweep time of (much) less than a second.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Dread on September 10, 2012, 09:46:03 pm
Quote
Photos of the inside: https://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/261382#2828679 (https://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/261382#2828679)

Thanks for the pictures!

As far as sweep speed is concearned, I do not find it to be too bad at all. Granted, I have no high-end SA's to compare to, but there are certainly no better alternatives in the same price range. If I need to see a precise frequency responce I will lower the RBW, and if I need a fast changing signal, I will increase it.  I can usually get all the information I need with a sweep time of (much) less than a second.

At least not Brand New but on Ebay you can find some deals on older stuff thats faster.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: David on September 24, 2012, 08:44:41 pm
I'm considering trying to purchase this at work for some EMC pre-compliance testing. Anyone actually used it for testing conducted emissions etc?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on December 15, 2012, 05:31:53 pm
Seems this has died out.
Any new owners or reviews??
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: RCMR on December 15, 2012, 09:04:03 pm
My finger is poised over the "buy" button but I'd still like to find a local source -- rather than direct-importing.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: saturation on December 16, 2012, 03:51:46 pm
Most other reviews I've run across have been good, if not high praise, and these are not from eevblog [ which I think are still the best as its most technical and critical, see archives.]  The cost of a used quality eBay SA, plus tracking generator and high accuracy frequency counter, all of questionable quality after receipt, will set you back about 75% of the cost of a new Rigol, but without the uncertainty of status.  For countries with a Rigol branch office to avail of warranty issues [ ~ none so far] its a far better deal; for those without a Rigol office nearby, the issues of warranty would have to be caveat emptor versus the big names.

EEWeb Labs: Product Review - Rigol DSA-815 Spectrum Analyzer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvMFXnkk4PY#ws)


http://tmworld.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4389791/First-Impressions--Rigol-DSA815TG-Spectrum-Analyzer (http://tmworld.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4389791/First-Impressions--Rigol-DSA815TG-Spectrum-Analyzer)

There are multiple video reviews from this user:

RIGOL DSA-815 RF Spectrum Analyzer Frequency Accuracy - Revisited AGAIN! :) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Y0uBIpXUZU#ws)


http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?353552-Spectrum-analyser-resolution-bandwidth-for-amateur-radio-usage/page2 (http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?353552-Spectrum-analyser-resolution-bandwidth-for-amateur-radio-usage/page2)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on December 16, 2012, 06:04:34 pm
saturation;
I did see that review though it wasn't as complete as I would of liked.
There were a couple members here that either had one or were going to but one. I wonder if they could come forward and post their experiences?
In another forum in a thread that was closed (no idea why) there were a few comments about this scope, but the member who had the most input has his PM's turned off. The main issue to him was phase noise.
Quote
I downloaded the Rigol specs in one of their glossy brochures and it does look like the phase noise is going to be quite poor. In one of their videos it shows -87dBc/Hz at 10kHz offset at the lower end of the analyser range.
 If you are not worried about close to carrier noise performance then I guess this isn't too much of a limitation but it is probably the noisiest analyser I have ever experienced in this respect. It's so noisy I wonder if the analyser uses the same LO/mix strategy as the higher frequency versions.
 In terms of signal sensitivity, the data suggests to me that the analyser noise figure with 0dB attenuation is about 40dB and this is about 15dB deafer than many bench analysers.
 The input IP3 appears to be +12dBm with 0dB attenuation and this initially looks good but the NF is high so the 3rd order IMD dynamic range will be several dB worse than a half decent 'regular' analyser.
 It does have a preamp to get the NF down to about 20dB but I would expect the input IP3 will suffer a lot with this switched in. Another plot shows the phase noise to be about -105dBc/Hz at 100kHz offset. Good enough for most testing but markedly inferior to a regular analyser.
 It would be interesting to see how the IP3 holds up on narrow spans as the glossy brochure shows this test at a 10MHz span. I suspect they chose this wide span to hide the fact the phase noise will spoil the appearance on narrow plots. eg an IMD test on a 20kHz span would look very noisy.
Anyone know what he means by "IP3"??

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on December 16, 2012, 06:06:13 pm
My finger is poised over the "buy" button but I'd still like to find a local source -- rather than direct-importing.
I'm in the US and the importer is in a Cleveland Ohio suburb which is only a couple hundred miles away.
You don't state where you are.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: saturation on December 16, 2012, 09:28:33 pm
hi videobruce,

815 is the entry level DSA of their series, and if you compare just Rigol's offering, incremental improvement of the specs increases the cost of the SA fairly greatly.  So, the more you spend the quieter it be, and the more the amps have dynamic range.  So, the question is, is the 815 adequate for your needs?

On IP3:

http://eetimes.com/design/microwave-rf-design/4018951/Understanding-RF-power-amplifiers (http://eetimes.com/design/microwave-rf-design/4018951/Understanding-RF-power-amplifiers)

I see the third order intercept given on the Rigol users guide TOI this is aka intercept point 3, IP3.  IP2 = SHI on the manual

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-order_intercept_point (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-order_intercept_point)

Note the difference between the harmonic calculation versus the IM product calculation.


saturation;
I did see that review though it wasn't as complete as I would of liked.
There were a couple members here that either had one or were going to but one. I wonder if they could come forward and post their experiences?
In another forum in a thread that was closed (no idea why) there were a few comments about this scope, but the member who had the most input has his PM's turned off. The main issue to him was phase noise....Anyone know what he means by "IP3"??


Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: G0HZU on December 16, 2012, 09:51:25 pm
saturation;
I did see that review though it wasn't as complete as I would of liked.
There were a couple members here that either had one or were going to but one. I wonder if they could come forward and post their experiences?
In another forum in a thread that was closed (no idea why) there were a few comments about this scope, but the member who had the most input has his PM's turned off. The main issue to him was phase noise.
Quote
I downloaded the Rigol specs in one of their glossy brochures and it does look like the phase noise is going to be quite poor. In one of their videos it shows -87dBc/Hz at 10kHz offset at the lower end of the analyser range.
 If you are not worried about close to carrier noise performance then I guess this isn't too much of a limitation but it is probably the noisiest analyser I have ever experienced in this respect. It's so noisy I wonder if the analyser uses the same LO/mix strategy as the higher frequency versions.
 In terms of signal sensitivity, the data suggests to me that the analyser noise figure with 0dB attenuation is about 40dB and this is about 15dB deafer than many bench analysers.
 The input IP3 appears to be +12dBm with 0dB attenuation and this initially looks good but the NF is high so the 3rd order IMD dynamic range will be several dB worse than a half decent 'regular' analyser.
 It does have a preamp to get the NF down to about 20dB but I would expect the input IP3 will suffer a lot with this switched in. Another plot shows the phase noise to be about -105dBc/Hz at 100kHz offset. Good enough for most testing but markedly inferior to a regular analyser.
 It would be interesting to see how the IP3 holds up on narrow spans as the glossy brochure shows this test at a 10MHz span. I suspect they chose this wide span to hide the fact the phase noise will spoil the appearance on narrow plots. eg an IMD test on a 20kHz span would look very noisy.
Anyone know what he means by "IP3"??

Hi That was my post above :)

I haven't seen a decent technical review of this analyser yet which is kind of frustrating. My background is that I'm an RF designer and for the last 20+ years I've always had access to the very best spectrum analysers at my place of work.

The products we design require the very best analysers available and so I'm quite clued up on how to evaluate a spectrum analyser in terms of its basic performance requirements. But sadly none of the guys these get sent to for review seem to do these basic tests. So I'm only left with the manufacturer's datasheet.

However, I guess any regular RF tests would show that the Rigol has some very real limitations in terms of spurious free dynamic range and  maybe this isn't a fair comparison on an instrument that only costs $1500 new. Quite a remarkable price!

The areas I would be most concerned about would be the spurious free dynamic range (above DANL) on a basic IP2 and IP3 test across various RBW and attenuator/preamp settings.

Also I'd be slightly concerned about internal spurious performance and rejection of external spurious and the quality of the RF attenuators at the front end.

Obviously it won't offer lab grade performance in these areas but for most home users and field technicians this analyser would probably be a better choice than an older HP analyser. Few people will really need or appreciate the difference in performance against a high end analyser and it does have the advantage of a modern user interface and is highly portable and presumably has a reasonable warranty period :)




Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on December 17, 2012, 02:23:56 pm
I already have a Aeroflex 2399a (made by LG Innotek, originally IFR). I was looking for a somewhat portable model. Below are specs from their data sheet for comparison. The three included options are shown at the bottom;
Quote
Tuning Range: 9 kHz to 3 GHz
Resolution: 1 Hz
Frequency Span Width: 100 Hz/div to 300 MHz/div in 1, 2, 5 step selections (auto-selected)
Span Accuracy: ±3% of indicated span width
Readout Accuracy: ±(span accuracy + frequency standard accuracy + 50% of RBW)
Stability Residual FM: <100 Hz p-p at 1 kHz RBW, 1 kHz VBW, (p-p in 20 ms)
Noise Sidebands: -90 dBc/Hz at 10 kHz, -98 dBc/Hz at 100 kHz both offsets measured at 2.9 GHz

Measurement Range: +30 dBm to -110 dBm
DANL:.........................................Amp Out (typ) Amp In (typ)
50 kHz to 100 kHz -95 dBm amp out, -105 dBm -117 dBm
100 kHz to 3 GHz -105 dBm amp out, -115 dBm -127 dBm
300 Hz RBW, 10 Hz VBW
1 dB Compression Point -10 dBm minimum 100 kHz to 3 GHz at 0 dB attenuation
Displayed Range:
100 dB in 10 dB/div log scale
50 dB in 5 dB/div log scale
20 dB in 2 dB/div log scale
10 dB in 1 dB/div log scale
10 divisions with linear amplitude scale

Resolution bandwidth;
300 Hz, 1 kHz, 3 kHz, 10 kHz, 30 kHz, 100 kHz, 300 kHz, 1 MHz, 3MHz + 10 Hz, 30 Hz, 100 Hz (option 05)
Accuracy: ±20%
Selectivity: 60 dB/3 dB ratio <15:1
except 3 MHz filter 50 dB/3 dB ratio <15:1
60 dB/6 dB ratio <12:1 for 9 kHz and 120 kHz Quasi-Peak filters
Switching Error: ±1.0 dB
Video Selection: 10 Hz to 1 MHz in 1-3-10 sequence plus full BW

Sweep Rate (full screen): 20 ms to 1000 s in 1-2-5 sequence, 25 µs to 20 s in Zero Span
Sweep Rate Accuracy: 20% for <100 ms, 10% for all other sweep rates

Freq stability;
Frequency: 10 MHz
Output Level: +5 dBm nominal
Temperature Stability: ±2 ppm
Aging Rate: ±1 ppm/year

Low noise preamp (option)
DANL: Improves DANL by approximately 12 dB above 50 MHz
Frequency Range: 50 kHz to 50 MHz -115 dBm typical
DANL: 100 kHz to 1.8 GHz -130 dBm typical
1.8 GHz to 3 GHz -129 dBm typical
Gain: Compensated internally

Tracking generator (option);
Frequency Range: 100 kHz to 3 GHz
Output Level: 0 to -70 dBm
Output Level Resolution: 0.1 dB step
Absolute Level Accuracy: ?±1.0 dB at 0 dB
Frequency Flatness: ?2.0 dB at -10 dBm
Signal Purity;
Harmonics <-15 dBc
Non-harmonics <-25 dBc
Sub-harmonics <-25 dBc
Leakage: <-90 dBm

Digital bandwidth filter (option);
Bandwidths: 100 Hz, 30 Hz, 10 Hz
Bandwidth accuracy: ±20%
Selectivity (-60 dB/-3 dB): <5:1
Maximum span: 1 MHz
Sweep times for 10 kHz span;
RBW:  100 Hz <0.9 sec.; 30 Hz <3 sec.; 10 Hz <4.5 sec.
Displayed Average Noise Levels (DANL) between 1 MHz and 2.4 GHz
reduces DANL by typically 5 dB from the values in the 300 Hz resolution bandwidth filter.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on December 17, 2012, 03:01:05 pm
Quote
So, the more you spend the quieter it be, and the more the amps have dynamic range.  So, the question is, is the 815 adequate for your needs?
I don't know w/o a hands on test since I don't have numbers to compare properly.
Quote
IP2 = SHI on the manual
Is that suppose to mean it isn't good? If so, what should I be looking for?
Quote
I haven't seen a decent technical review of this analyser yet which is kind of frustrating.
Dito. One review was Ok, the other useless.
Quote
The areas I would be most concerned about would be the spurious free dynamic range (above DANL) on a basic IP2 and IP3 test across various RBW and attenuator/preamp settings.
Also I'd be slightly concerned about internal spurious performance and rejection of external spurious and the quality of the RF attenuators at the front end.
Good luck finding that.  ;)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: G0HZU on December 17, 2012, 03:54:28 pm
The spec performance you have posted up for the Aeroflex shows an analyser that I would class as a semi portable technician's analyser.

i.e. the RF performance isn't great but it's probably typical of many middle of the road analysers.

I suspect the Rigol will give similar performance although I'd like to think the Aeroflex will score better on the more subtle spurious performance tests.

I'd imagine most users will use the Rigol with the preamp switched in and maybe 10dB front end attenuation. The preamp will probably degrade the frequency response below 1MHz but I guess few people will be bothered by this.

In this configuration it probably performs in a similar fashion to many mainstream analysers in terms of DANL for a given resolution bandwidth.

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on December 17, 2012, 04:14:23 pm
There are only two places to get these in the US (for the most part), Rigol in Ohio, or T Equipment in NJ.
T Equip. has a 30 day money back guarantee.

One downside is only four markers. Another is a software option for VSWR readout; $440. :-DD
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: saturation on December 17, 2012, 06:26:02 pm
Its very likely videobruce will be making the more extensive review of the 815s RF characteristics!  tequipment has the best price I've seen in the 'net, not to mention free shipping.  Either way, should anything snafu it all goes back to Rigol in Ohio.

Please give us a detailed review when able, since you have an existing SA to compare it against.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: G0HZU on December 17, 2012, 09:38:21 pm
Just to highlight the phase noise issue have a look at the two plots below.

One is from the Rigol from somebody who tested it on a narrow span of 2kHz. You can see that the analyser has a lot of difficulty resolving any detail on a narrow span like this because it is limited by the 100Hz RBW filter and also there is a lot of stopband noise caused by the noisy synthesiser used in the Rigol. This noise manifests itself as a raised noise floor and it limits the visible signal to noise ratio on narrow spans like this.

The Rigol has 30dB attenuation and no preamp selected but this would still allow a typical DANL of about -85dBm with a 100Hz RBW filter so the noise you see is phase noise from the synthesiser.


The plot below it is taken from a very old 1500MHz HP analyser (this model dates back nearly 35 years)  and you can clearly see how much cleaner the response is.
Now this was a top class HP analyser in its day but the margin by which it outclasses the Rigol here in terms of signal to noise and resolution on a narrow span is quite marked. It's actually better than this by several dB but the 134MHz sig gen I used introduces some of the noise you can see.

(http://media2.turbosport.co.uk/2011/5/2012121721293830902DSA815-RubStd-02.jpg)
(http://media2.turbosport.co.uk/2011/5/20121217213911897538568b_1kb.jpg)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: G0HZU on December 17, 2012, 10:47:57 pm
As a further comparison here's another old analyser from about 25yrs ago  (1800MHz model made in Japan)

This time I've put in a basic 10MHz crystal oscillator as a test signal and I've set the attenuator to 30dB and the preamp is off to match the Rigol settings.

The span is 1kHz.

Again you can see far more detail and far more dynamic range because the RBW is lower and the synthesiser noise is much lower. You can see some tiny 100Hz sidebands on the oscillator signal caused by the 50Hz PSU. The Rigol can't display this info despite it having modern DSP at its disposal.

However, if you aren't too concerned about looking on very narrow spans for modulation issues or 100Hz (120Hz?) PSU ripple on signals or carrier noise then I guess this phase noise issue isn't that relevant :)



(http://media2.turbosport.co.uk/2011/5/201212172244692771310Mhz_advb.jpg)

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on December 18, 2012, 04:38:45 pm
Quote
Its very likely videobruce will be making the more extensive review of the 815s RF characteristics!
Man, you are really going out on a limb there.  ;D
Quote
if you aren't too concerned about looking on very narrow spans for modulation issues or 100Hz (120Hz?) PSU ripple on signals or carrier noise then I guess this phase noise issue isn't that relevant
I would say probably not. To sum it up, the phase noise problem pretty much concerns the noise floor level, correct?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: G0HZU on December 18, 2012, 07:31:30 pm
Yes the noise effectively acts as a mask that hides information on the narrowest spans.

I suppose one other example of how it would limit the performance is if you tried to do a swept response of a crystal filter designed for narrow SSB or CW using the tracking generator.

The true stopband performance of the filter would not be displayed because the analyser would hide it with phase noise. You could still measure the passband reasonably well and prove the filter wasn't grossly faulty though.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: saturation on December 19, 2012, 02:18:54 am
 :-BROKE Sorry, I think I forgot to post an edit I made to that post "... more extensive review ... because you have another SA to compare it against."

In a query  IP2 = SHI on the manual: Is that suppose to mean it isn't good? If so, what should I be looking for?

Purely in theory, IP2 calculated by harmonics, SHI = second harmonic intercept, are higher by ~ 5dB compared to IM, IM used for estimating IP3. :-//

http://rf-mw.org/nonlinearity_effercts_nonlinearity_effercts_second_and_third_order_intercept_points.html#top (http://rf-mw.org/nonlinearity_effercts_nonlinearity_effercts_second_and_third_order_intercept_points.html#top)

I see G0HZU point fairly clearly, but here other amateur radio users demonstrate how they can push the noise floor down further or compensate for it. 

Here via signal averaging:

RIGOL DSA-815 Weak Signal Measurement (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOzFJ9hTq28#ws)

or here showing the effect of turning on the preamp, removing the 30dB attenuation and further changing RBW:

DSA815 TG Basic Spectrum Analysis (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cca5kI1kHUk#ws)





Quote
Its very likely videobruce will be making the more extensive review of the 815s RF characteristics!
Man, you are really going out on a limb there.  ;D
Quote
if you aren't too concerned about looking on very narrow spans for modulation issues or 100Hz (120Hz?) PSU ripple on signals or carrier noise then I guess this phase noise issue isn't that relevant
I would say probably not. To sum it up, the phase noise problem pretty much concerns the noise floor level, correct?

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on December 19, 2012, 12:54:52 pm
Golly. Thanks for all of that.
I don't bother with FM broadcast, but I was surprised to find out the FCC has allocated a wider bandwidth for these so called "HD" radio stations. I just assumed they found a way to piggyback the additional ability within what they already had, similar to ATSC TV.

That green line with the letters "DL" in those screen shots, what does that stand for?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: G0HZU on December 19, 2012, 01:09:02 pm
Quote
I see G0HZU point fairly clearly, but here other amateur radio users demonstrate how they can push the noise floor down further or compensate for it. 



Yes but the phase noise issue affects narrow spans the most. The solutions you posted up above are on wider spans.
As a rough rule of thumb the phase noise issue gets less significant by 6dB every time you double the distance from the signal. At a 1kHz offset it is highly significant as you can see in my earlier post.

You can see it spoils the noise floor on a 2kHz span. No amount of messing with the attenuation or preamp will fix this on a 2kHz span. The dynamic range in the 2kHz plot is limited by phase noise and not the settings for the preamp or attenuator.

Hope this helps :)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: saturation on December 19, 2012, 03:46:43 pm
Thanks GOHZU, again, you've pointed that out very clearly; that's at least one other of this SAs limitations.  But, like the Rigol 1052e is to DSOs,  a buyer of this SA has to decide if this is enough for its intended application.   I think most of the video youtube posts on the 815 have been by ham radio users, as they've taken to this unit favorably but other applications, detailed EMC testing perhaps? It won't be as applicable but maybe EMC pretesting?  On T&M World recently:

http://www.tmworld.com/electronics-products/electronic-product-reviews/other/4398946/2/Product-review--Rigol-DSA815TG-spectrum-analyzer (http://www.tmworld.com/electronics-products/electronic-product-reviews/other/4398946/2/Product-review--Rigol-DSA815TG-spectrum-analyzer)

http://www.edn.com/electronics-products/electronic-product-reviews/other/4398963/Test-Drive--Rigol-DSA815TG-spectrum-analyzer (http://www.edn.com/electronics-products/electronic-product-reviews/other/4398963/Test-Drive--Rigol-DSA815TG-spectrum-analyzer)

I think Rigol is  on to something here, as its exploiting a niche that's been filled until now mostly with used eBay SAs that are affordable by the ham community, or by EE looking for gear for more field level testing.  You now have a new unit that offers some competition to used units, with several caveats as you've noted.  The ARRL has about 150,000 members,  and would constitute at least one market segment, not sure how many of them would want a new SA or have never been able to get one until now.  By comparison, the US Bureau of Labor estimates there are ~ 300,000 EEs in the USA, so the ham community alone as another market for T&M gear other than EE's is sizeable.


Quote
I see G0HZU point fairly clearly, but here other amateur radio users demonstrate how they can push the noise floor down further or compensate for it. 



Yes but the phase noise issue affects narrow spans the most. The solutions you posted up above are on wider spans.
As a rough rule of thumb the phase noise issue gets less significant by 6dB every time you double the distance from the signal. At a 1kHz offset it is highly significant as you can see in my earlier post.

You can see it spoils the noise floor on a 2kHz span. No amount of messing with the attenuation or preamp will fix this on a 2kHz span. The dynamic range in the 2kHz plot is limited by phase noise and not the settings for the preamp or attenuator.

Hope this helps :)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on December 19, 2012, 04:27:13 pm
I couldn't get an answer from this Guy at Rigol for these questions;

1. Max input level, there are two figures 20dBm and 30dBm. Supposedly, 20 was what the unit was tested to, 30 is the "damage level" according to the spec sheet. Is this figure based on total levels from all signals within the full bandwidth of the scope, or just the specific range that is currently displayed?

2. Assuming it is within the specific span you set, if you are in the FM broadcast band with many stations at high levels, that number has to be exceeded isn't it?

3. A unusual feature of the tracking generator this "Power Sweep" where the output of the generator increases across the frequency range under test. Why and how is this used?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: olsenn on December 19, 2012, 05:41:22 pm
Quote
1. Max input level, there are two figures 20dBm and 30dBm. Supposedly, 20 was what the unit was tested to, 30 is the "damage level" according to the spec sheet. Is this figure based on total levels from all signals within the full bandwidth of the scope, or just the specific range that is currently displayed?


For the DSA815 the max input level before (potentially) damaging the device is 20dbm. From my understanding (but I could be wrong about this) that is now only the combined input accross the 9kHz - 1.5GHz range of the device, but even frequencies outside this range as well. I always leave a 30db attenuator on the input just in case.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on December 20, 2012, 01:02:54 pm
On the front of the scope under the input jack it states "Max+20 dBm/50 Vdc", in the specs it states "CW RF Power / RF attenuation=30db / +20 dBm (100mW)", then "Max. Damage Level / +30 dBm".

My IFR 2399A states "+30 dBm, 50Vdc" on the front panel, but in the specs it states "+30 dBm max input with 30 db attenuation, 50 Vdc"

My utter confusion is, can I assume those specs are for a single signal generated on the bench, as opposed to connecting it to an antenna for broadband monitoring?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: G0HZU on December 20, 2012, 01:40:11 pm
Connecting your analyser to an external antenna is a risky business because it won't be designed for this.

You run the risk of ESD damage from nearby lightning storms and also you run the risk of someone using a high power CB radio nearby. But they would have to be running very high power and be driving past just a few metres away in order to couple 30dBm into your antenna.

However, if you had a longwire antenna fitted to the analyser and someone (maybe you?)  was transmitting high power on 3.5MHz then they could be 100 to 200 metres away and still toast the analyser.

Basically you should consider fitting an external diode based limiter to the front of the analyser to minimise the risk of damage if you want to regularly connect a large antenna to it.

I seriously doubt you need to worry about multiple broadcast stations damaging your analyser unless you live very close to a transmitter mast. It's local CB/Ham radio across 2-30MHz or ESD damage eg usually via lightning storms that are the biggest risk. A mobile phone is unlikely to harm it unless it is right next to the antenna or you connect directly somehow. A nearby phone mast shouldn't be a risk unless it is your next door neighbour because the path loss at 900MHz+ will be so high.

Also, the true damage threshold level of your analyser will depend on frequency and duty cycle of the damaging signal(s).

So there can never be a precise figure given for this. But your Rigol has some very small SMD devices in the front end and these will probably be rated for 30dBm average power in a thermal sense. i.e. 1W is going to make the tiny little input attenuator get very hot if it is set to 10dB attenuation or more.

That's why the Rigol has a crude overload detector by the input connector. This broadband detector will sense a big signal (eg +20dBm?) and it will redirect the input signal to a dummy load and prevent it from hitting the vulnerable attenuator.

But this ability is probably only limited to two or three watts before the protection circuit itself gets damaged. Plus it wont be 100% foolproof so the damage could still happen if you hit it with a Watt or more of RF anywhere from LF to many GHz.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on December 20, 2012, 01:46:50 pm
It's not continuously connected and living in a city, there is little chance of lightning strikes. Besides, I wouldn't be using it when any lightning was evident.  ;)
No long wire and "CB' is basically dead for the most part.

Quote
Basically you should consider fitting an external diode based limiter to the front of the analyser
Any sources for this, or is this a home brew deal?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: G0HZU on December 20, 2012, 02:01:47 pm
You can buy a limiter or make one yourself.

A commercial limiter rated to maybe 2GHz should protect for strikes up to about 10W average power. It should reflect the power back and only leak about +16dBm into the analyser.

If you want to make one yourself you can use cheaper silicon diodes and this will give pretty good protection up to maybe 5W up to maybe 500MHz.

Obviously the limiter doesn't mean you can now deliberately put 1W to 5W into your analyser. It would just be like an insurance policy against you overdriving the analyser by accident.

A good limiter will only introduce a fraction of 1dB insertion loss but the downside of the limiter is that it will introduce IMD and harmonic distortion if you feed signals to tha analyser above about +3dBm because of the limiting action.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: G0HZU on December 20, 2012, 02:13:37 pm
The other aspect to this is the Rigol appears to use commercially available parts in the front end.

I do RF design for a living and use parts like this all the time. I did look at the closeup images of the insides of the Rigol and I was able to identify manuf part numbers for nearly all the SMD parts used in the RF signal path. I have even identified the ones that have been sanded by Rigol to hide the part number. eg the little SMD switches, the SMD mixer, the SMD 5 bit RF attenuators and the SMD amplifiers.

They are all cheap parts so as long as the PCB doesn't get thermally toasted by silly amounts of RF power then a repair should only be $20 - $30 in parts or less.

If Rigol are helpful here they may even produce a damage overload repair kit. HP/Agilent do this for some of their instruments if the relevant parts required are small and cheap.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: saturation on December 21, 2012, 04:58:47 pm
That's great insight again GOHZU, another plus for users should Rigol tech support be unhelpful today, or the future.   Some years ago there was an Instek sub-$1000 SA that didn't generate as much interest as the Rigol, due to design limitations.

http://www.tequipment.net/InstekGSP-730.html (http://www.tequipment.net/InstekGSP-730.html)

The other aspect to this is the Rigol appears to use commercially available parts in the front end....

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on December 21, 2012, 05:12:41 pm
The two calls I have made to Rigol have been unhelpful. The same guy answered the phone both times. He knew about as much as I did about the SA.  :--
One would think I was dealing with a typical CE importer.

Quote
Some years ago there was an Instek sub-$1000 SA that didn't generate as much interest as the Rigol, due to design limitations.
Never was aware of that. It appears to be current. What "design limitations", other than no TG?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: PA0PBZ on December 21, 2012, 07:29:59 pm
What "design limitations", other than no TG?

I see minimum RBW 30 KHz, that alone would keep me from buying it.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: pauln on December 22, 2012, 07:49:35 am
A question re the VSWR option.  I have seen several YouTube videos use an non Rigol directional coupler and the VSWR measuring option on the DSA815TG.  I thought you had to buy their coupler in order to get the option license as well?  So can this option be activated without buying Rigols accessory?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on December 22, 2012, 12:01:28 pm
AFAIC, I 'm not paying $440 for a bunch of ones & zeros (software activation). That's outrageous, ridiculous and just plain greedy. >:(  $50 yes, $100 maybe, but 1/3 the cost of the SA, forget it. This isn't the first time I have seen this. It's poor marketing and poor customer relations. It really turns me off to these companies.
I did voice my opinion when I called, but received a excuse that since the SA was priced the way it was, spending the additional $$ still brought it under all the others. While technically true, it still doesn't change the fact you are paying 1/3 of the price of the device for some limited function software "key".

I have a separate RLB (Return Loss Bridge): Eagle RLB150x5 that I use with my Aeroflex 2399A. Of course it doesn't provide VSWR measurements, but at least I can see the plot on the scope.
One thing I will admit, their VSWR adapter, which is a RLB is far cheaper than the Eagle. But, the Eagle is made here, not China. ;)

For the cost of their software activation (you can d/l the software, one of which is a 350MB package for free) and a RLB, you can buy a decent SWR meter.

Quote
So can this option be activated without buying Rigols accessory?
AFAIK, yes. They are listed separately.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: jimeagle on December 23, 2012, 04:54:03 am
If you'd like to see how a standard $85 Mini-Circuits Directional Coupler can be used to determine Return Loss (VSWR in terms of dB), check out my videos on You Tube at https://www.youtube.com/jimeagle1. (https://www.youtube.com/jimeagle1.)  I have several videos showing how the Rigol DSA815-TG can be used for Ham Radio or even commercial use.

Checking Return Loss VSWR with the DSA815 TG (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5W_abYvvVls#ws)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: G0HZU on December 23, 2012, 02:09:20 pm
Hi Jim
Nice video with the coupler. That ZFSD-20-5 coupler has a very impressive spec (eg for directivity) and covers the whole range of the Rigol and is very good value for $85.


For people who maybe just want to do measurements up to 144MHz the low cost option is to make a transformer based coupler based on the classic Sontheimer design. The biggest cost for a homemade one will be in the choice of connectors and the time taken to box it all up but it is possible to make a high performance 20dB coupler over a fairly restricted range for just a few dollars if you build it from mostly salvaged parts...:)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on December 23, 2012, 03:17:23 pm
How does that compare to a true RLB such as the one from Eagle?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: G0HZU on December 23, 2012, 03:54:46 pm
For measuring return loss the spec on a decent return loss bridge should be better than a coupler. But a coupler is arguably more versatlie.

I'm not familiar with eagle products but you can make a pretty decent return loss bridge using a few precision resistors and a homemade balun transformer for a few dollars.

This would be good enough for use up to 144MHz.

The alternative is to use a transformer based coupler like a Sontheimer coupler but you need to choose a coupler that has very high directivity if you want to get close to the performance of a well made return loss bridge.

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on December 23, 2012, 03:57:41 pm
How about UHF?
Also, coverage up to 3GHz?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: G0HZU on December 23, 2012, 06:30:08 pm
The same applies really...

A suitably designed RL bridge will give the best performance over the widest bandwidth and this applies for designs that operate at many GHz too. It has the advantage of better isolation from load to source as well when compared to a coupler. This consideration is likely to be more significant with the Rigol as I doubt the TGen output will have an accurate 50R source impedance.

A coupler is a very versatile thing to have in the shack. So is a RL bridge. However, with the Rigol you can only measure scalar quantities like return loss or VSWR.
For more serious use where you want to know the actual impedance you are measuring across a swept frequency range then you have to look at using a vector network analyser in place of the Rigol.

However, for most home users a low cost home made coupler or RL bridge will be fine for measuring return loss with the Rigol. You might have to make two or three in order to cover the whole frequency range of the Rigol but that's no big deal. The ZFSD coupler used by Jim covers the whole range in one go... 
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: jwrtiger on December 23, 2012, 06:50:49 pm
I also have the Rigol DSA815 TG and I am just a hobbyist.  I noted Jim using the directional coupler and GOHZU mentioning it was fairly decent at around $85.00.  I just went to eBay and an auction was just ending so I put in a bid and won.  The auction was for two new Minicircuit couplers with female N-connectors (ZFSD-20-5).  I got the pair for $41.00 USD.  I was wondering if anyone has a recommendation for a source for short (around 1 meter) N-connector test cables for these units?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: jimeagle on December 24, 2012, 01:19:03 am
I thought I'd provide a look inside of the Mini-Circuits unit that I am using.  Specs are available on their website and I looked for something that covers to 2GHz in order to ensure reasonable performance to 1.5GHz.  I might add that the basic concept here was taken from application notes that were available on the HP website (and probably also on the Agilent web site).

I've been in the RF business for some time working variously at SBE, KLM Electronics, Identronics/IDX, Inc (one of two pioneer RFID companies), Allen-Bradley (again, RFID), RF Technologies, and Savi Technologies (purchased by Lockheed-Martin a few years ago).  This included HF through 2.4 GHz stuff but mostly low powered devices in the VHF and UHF region up to 915 MHz.

I am semi-retired but still working at Telewave part time since their plant is only a few miles (7 minutes) from my home in San Jose, CA.

Overall I would place the DSA815-TG in the Two-Way Radio Service Monitor level of capabilities though not quite as portable but with display,  print out and screen shot saving features superior to many of them. 

Noise wise, the unit is on a par with many of the lower end ($5K) Service Monitors available today but not as good as some of the $15-30K models and not specifically set up with all site management features found on the higher end products.  Several of those that I have used over the years were more expensive than the DSA815-TG but not as good in terms of their display, screen shot resolution, and even sensitivity.

This is clearly not a unit designed with aerospace measurements in mind but it is far superior in many ways to some of the Spectrum Analyzers I've used in my 40 year career as a Technician/Engineer. 

If you've got the room (I don't), spend $1-2K more for a good used HP analyzer then you can do exotic PLL work, broadband matching, etc.  Or if you really need a Network Analyzer, you will need to spend a bit more than that.  However, be prepared for a large, heavy, and mostly non-portable unit with poor, if any, modern flash drive or usb-based control capability.  Most will require IEEE 488 bus I/O which is almost always extra.  The DSA815-TG has this option available as well.

Jim

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on December 24, 2012, 04:21:30 pm
Quote
However, be prepared for a large, heavy, and mostly non-portable unit with poor, if any, modern flash drive or usb-based control capability.
But, those are deal killers. Don't forget to add, they are power hungry and have the issue of parts availability and service & shipping costs if you can't get it done yourself locally.  ;)

Regarding the interior shot of that coupler, are those odd drilling in the four corners for tuning purposes?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: PA0PBZ on December 24, 2012, 08:05:08 pm
Regarding the interior shot of that coupler, are those odd drilling in the four corners for tuning purposes?

I think it's just for the screws, looks like they get a length of aluminium and hack it in pieces to get the boxes.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: olepr01@gmail.com on January 09, 2013, 12:49:29 pm
Possibly a stupid question, my apologies:

I do not fully understand how the 10Mhz ref in works, and I really cant find much about it in the documentation of the unit. If I were to connect a low noise OCXO (say Wenzel ULN, for the sake of the argument), how would the parameters of the SA change? Would for instance the phase noise figures improve? Or would it only affect frequency accuracy?

Thank you..
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: G0HZU on January 10, 2013, 09:53:52 pm
As I don't have access to a Rigol DSA815 I can't give you a definite answer.

But I can give you some theory if that helps?

The 1st local oscillator in the Rigol probably tunes something like 2.1 to 3.6GHz. The 10MHz reference is obviously at 10MHz.

If you crudely model the synthesiser used in the 1st local oscillator as a basic multiplier from 10MHz up to say, 2500MHz you can calculate the phase noise contribution from the  reference as 20 * log(2500/10)

= +48dB.

So the very close in phase noise of the 1st LO could be influenced by the quality of the 10MHz reference. On a lab grade analyser this is very much the case for offsets very close to the carrier eg <2kHz

So if the standard Rigol reference had a phase noise of (this is just a guess) -145dBc/Hz at 10kHz offset then its contribution to the LO phase noise would be -145 +48 = -97dBc/Hz at a 10kHz offset.

Based on this figure there would be little or no benefit in upgrading the reference in order to get lower phase noise at a 10kHz offset. This is because the phase noise of the Rigol 1st local oscillator at 10kHz offset is typically -87dBc/Hz so something else dominates the noise here. Most likely it will be due to a noisy VCO used in the LO synthesiser.

You could ask Rigol what the phase noise profile is of the standard 10MHz oscillator? eg at 1kHz, 5kHz, 10kHz and 100kHz offsets ? The figure above of -145dBc/Hz at 10kHz is just a guess at a typical low cost 10MHz oscillator. I would hope the Rigol oscillator is better than this but it probably doesn't need to be better than this :)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: olepr01@gmail.com on January 11, 2013, 05:27:40 pm
Thanks a lot, that helped!  :)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: olesik on February 01, 2013, 06:23:09 pm
I am thinking about buying the DSA815-TG for the sole purpose of characterizing the filters and frequency response of my circuits. I do not do any RF (yet). I would like to plug the TG to the input and look at the display to see what frequencies are contributing to the noise in my circuits, this would be to identify which(if any) IC is contributing to noise at the output. Some of these circuits are basically operating at DC levels with slow changes (for example monitoring the force of a cell contraction using a optical based force/displacement sensor) in the order of 10 to 100ms.
When you use the SA do you see the clear spike at 60hz and its harmonics ?
Thanks
Jonathan
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: jwrtiger on February 01, 2013, 09:18:02 pm
Think you need to look at an audio spectrum analyzer that can go down to low frequency.   The Rigol DSA815 has a 9 kHz to 1.5 GHz Frequency Range.   Someone here may be able to give you a better suggestion.

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: G0HZU on February 01, 2013, 11:04:58 pm
Yes the Rigol would be a poor choice for use down at low frequency because it only goes down to 9kHz and also the RBW only goes down to 100Hz and also the phase noise is so poor.

For analysing stuff down at 60Hz to a few kHz then you should really consider using a decent PC soundcard and some software that allows a spectrum analyser display via the soundcard's MIC socket using the power of the PC to do the DSP.

You can get >100dB dynamic range and resolution bandwidths below 1Hz and fast update rates as well. Many soundcards can now boast a 24 bit ADC and sampling at 192kHz allowing operation up to maybe 80kHz. So by using the soundcard you get an analyser for free if you download a free program that offers this function. There are plenty to choose from.

Or you could buy some really powerful (audio) spectrum analyser software eg from Soundtechnology.com but this won't be cheap.

http://www.soundtechnology.com/buster.html (http://www.soundtechnology.com/buster.html)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Rufus on March 07, 2013, 02:49:27 pm

from 00.01.05 to 00.01.06 .
Did someone try to do this??
Rigol technician said it's very safe procedure because "boot" will not be touched.

Firmware updating is straight forward and the technician is probably correct saying it is safe.

The difficulty is knowing if there is any firmware update available and getting it. I updated from .04 to .05 do you know what .06 fixes?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Rufus on March 08, 2013, 02:33:00 pm
Rufus can you please explain update procedure?

You put the .sys update file on a USB stick. Find and highlight the file in the storage screens then the storage menu has a 'Sys Update' button.

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: olsenn on March 08, 2013, 04:07:07 pm
So does anybody even know what this 1.06 firmware fixes?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Dongulus on March 11, 2013, 10:57:08 am
I really hope this is a quality product. $1500 for a SA is unheard of.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: olsenn on March 11, 2013, 12:45:38 pm
Quote
I really hope this is a quality product. $1500 for a SA is unheard of.

I own one, and I really like it a lot. You won't find a better SA for under 2X the price
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Rufus on March 11, 2013, 12:49:40 pm
       Optimize the EMI radiation.                               
     -----------------------------------------------------------
       Solve the problem of option expiration can also continue 
       to use.                                                   

What does that chinglish mean?  Sounds like trial option licenses could be abused - maybe not such a useful update.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: thekubiaks on March 13, 2013, 02:35:08 am
I like everything about the Rigol 815 but I need to go up to 3ghz and I need a tracking generator.   I primarily will use this SA for antenna design and filter design.  I'd really like to stay in this price range,  or do I have to start considering something like the Rigol DSA1030A?   I found a IFR AN1820 on ebay that might work, does anybody have opinions on either idea??  Thanks

http://www.ebay.com/itm/IFR-AN1820-Color-Spectrum-Analyzer-9-kHz-to-2-9-GHz-with-Tracking-Generator-/140917618505?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20cf583749 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/IFR-AN1820-Color-Spectrum-Analyzer-9-kHz-to-2-9-GHz-with-Tracking-Generator-/140917618505?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20cf583749)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: RCMR on March 13, 2013, 08:23:42 am
I ended up buying one of those Micronix BK Precision 2650 SAs (3.3GHz)  that have been going cheap on eBay.

Monochrome display, no tracking generator, pretty basic but it seems to work just fine and dandy for what I'm doing.

They originally cost $6K (yeah, right!) but I picked mine up for about $700.

I would have loved a Rigol, with its color LCD, TG and other niceties -- but I do a lot of work on 2.4GHz so the 815 was simply out of the question and the more capable Rigol SAs were too rich for me.

The BK Precision one also has battery operation which is nice for portable use and the LCD is very legible even in full sunlight.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: thekubiaks on March 28, 2013, 05:03:21 pm
I ended up buying one of those Micronix BK Precision 2650 SAs (3.3GHz)  that have been going cheap on eBay.

Monochrome display, no tracking generator, pretty basic but it seems to work just fine and dandy for what I'm doing.

They originally cost $6K (yeah, right!) but I picked mine up for about $700.

I would have loved a Rigol, with its color LCD, TG and other niceties -- but I do a lot of work on 2.4GHz so the 815 was simply out of the question and the more capable Rigol SAs were too rich for me.

The BK Precision one also has battery operation which is nice for portable use and the LCD is very legible even in full sunlight.

Have you ever seen the RF Explorer from seeed?? 

http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/rf-explorer-3g-combo-p-1266.html?cPath=174 (http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/rf-explorer-3g-combo-p-1266.html?cPath=174)

I have it and it is pretty good but I'd like to have that BK2650 you picked up, especially at that price...you scored !

Anyway, I am considering the BK2650 or the HP8594 A or E model with tracking generator.  I want to test my FPV gear as well as design some antennas and band pass filters.

I hear from seeed that they are going to make some kind of tracking generator for the RF Explorer.  Perhaps I should wait before I blow huge amounts of $$$.  What do you thinK??

btw, I love your youtube videos, looks like you are enjoying the BK2650  :)

Cheers
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: fqahmad66 on April 09, 2013, 11:44:28 am
Hi everyone,

This may seem an odd question..but where ever I look at DSA815 screen shoots of RF peaks, its like side slopes concave outside..I mean like a dagger pointed upward ...rather than a sharp pointed ones with side slope concave invard. Is it normal?

Regards
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: fqahmad66 on April 10, 2013, 07:27:33 am
I got it....

http://rf-test.tm.agilent.com/2013/01/shape-factor-benefits-of-digital-filters/ (http://rf-test.tm.agilent.com/2013/01/shape-factor-benefits-of-digital-filters/)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on April 23, 2013, 03:34:49 pm
Have you ever seen the RF Explorer from seeed?? 
http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/rf-explorer-3g-combo-p-1266.html?cPath=174 (http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/rf-explorer-3g-combo-p-1266.html?cPath=174)
I hear from seeed that they are going to make some kind of tracking generator for the RF Explorer.  Perhaps I should wait before I blow huge amounts of $$$.  What do you thinK??
That model is out of stock, maybe becasue of the proposed tracking generator.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: fpliuzzi on April 23, 2013, 06:42:28 pm
Have you ever seen the RF Explorer from seeed?? 
http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/rf-explorer-3g-combo-p-1266.html?cPath=174 (http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/rf-explorer-3g-combo-p-1266.html?cPath=174)
I hear from seeed that they are going to make some kind of tracking generator for the RF Explorer.  Perhaps I should wait before I blow huge amounts of $$$.  What do you thinK??
That model is out of stock, maybe becasue of the proposed tracking generator.

Hello,
The following URL may be of some help (lists network of worldwide distributors for the RF Explorer).

http://micro.arocholl.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54&Itemid=66 (http://micro.arocholl.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54&Itemid=66)

I noticed that the US distributor "Nuts About Nets" shows that they have the RF Explorer-3G Combo in stock.

About the tracking generator...

Here is a direct quote by the RF Explorer developer Ariel Rocholl that I found on March 31...

"Yes, there will be a wideband RF Generator + Tracking generator but not as a module, it will be a separated unit. We will keep everyone updated as the project moves on."

I have owned my RF Explorer-3G Combo for about 6 month now and I too will be very interested in looking at the tracking generator when it arrives on the market.

Regards,
Frank
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on April 24, 2013, 04:08:13 pm
Thanks for the link. This looks very interesting.

How is the sampling rate and is it any different on a PC?

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: olsenn on August 12, 2013, 04:53:18 pm
Just a shout out to those who haven't been following the thread, "Sniffing the Rigol's Internal I2C Bus"; the DSA815 has been HACKED! You can now get licence codes to enable 10Hz RBW as well as the Advanced Measurment Options, VSWR, and EMC.

Check it out here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sniffing-the-rigol's-internal-i2c-bus/msg275473/?topicseen#msg275473 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sniffing-the-rigol's-internal-i2c-bus/msg275473/?topicseen#msg275473)

Special thanks to "Cybernet" and "DL5TOR" for making this possible!
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Matthias Toussaint on August 14, 2013, 06:51:14 pm
I noticed peaks at 900kHz and 10MHz with nothing connected to the DSA815. The 10MHz must be the internal reference, but what could be the 900kHz. LCD display clock? Any thought on this?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Rory on August 14, 2013, 07:15:14 pm
I noticed peaks at 900kHz and 10MHz with nothing connected to the DSA815. The 10MHz must be the internal reference, but what could be the 900kHz. LCD display clock? Any thought on this?


Now try turning on the tracking generator.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Matthias Toussaint on August 14, 2013, 07:37:27 pm
Yeah, the noise is elevated quite a lot with the TG running (trace 2). This limits the usable dynamic range to around 80dB when using the tracking generator. It would be nicer without that noise but I can can live with that. It's still a budget SA
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: jsykes on August 16, 2013, 04:40:44 am
I noticed peaks at 900kHz and 10MHz with nothing connected to the DSA815. The 10MHz must be the internal reference, but what could be the 900kHz. LCD display clock? Any thought on this?

I was looking at the Rigol firmware notes and saw for FW 00.01.06 the notes mention a 900MHz glitch problem. I wonder if they mean 900KHz? It's kind of hard to figure out what the Chinglish means in relation to the glitch and tracking generator.
It's highlited in RED below.
 
 
 Function Changes
 
     Version?00.01.07.00.01  Date?2013-05-16
    1.           Solve the problem LXI cannot pass the test of version 1.4.  M
    2.           Solve the problem Opposite TX1000 software switch and the actual output control  M
    3.           Solve the problem unable to remotely by the socket communication.  M
    4.           Solve the problem input is out of range, the instrument can not operated.  M
    5.           Solve the problem input save operation takes too long.  M
    6.           Correct spelling errors, change ‘Input Attention ’to ‘Input Attenuation.’  M
 
[/t]   
 
 
 
 
     Version?00.01.06.00.05  Date?2013-01-10
    1.           Optimize the EMI radiation.  M
    2.           Sometimes modify RBW to cause filter shape error.  M
    3.           Solve the problem of option expiration can also continue to use.  M
    4.           OBW measurement is not accurate.  M
    5.           EBW measurement is not accurate.  M
    6.           When you insert U disk, press the print button, the local disk is selected.  M
    7.          When the TG is open, the frequency of 900MHz at a small glitch.  M
    8.           Modify the message from “Invalid option serial number” to “Invalid license key”  M
    9.           The three trial version option installed at the some time, one options expire, the other two can continue to use.  M
    10.       When EMI option is not active, the detector type can not be used.  M
    11.       In the case of high and low temperatures, the LCD screen display error.  M
    12.       Solve the problem some point amplitude difference 2~3dB.  M
    13.       Solve the problem without TG machine can not start.  M
    14.       Solve the problem when Zero Span Marker accuracy is not enough.  M
 
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Matthias Toussaint on August 16, 2013, 06:27:45 pm
I'm running FW 00.01.07 now. There are peaks at 900kHz, 10MHz and 750MHz. Nothing changed after upgrading from 1.06. Saving a image to an USB thumbdrive is a bit faster now. Not sure what they mean with the TG related glitch at 900MHz.

All measurements from the screenshots have been taken with TG off and a 30dB attenuator connected to the detector input (not terminated though)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: fqahmad66 on August 17, 2013, 01:46:36 am
I confirm that these signals are present in my analyser also with nothing connected. v6 here.

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: jsykes on August 17, 2013, 03:00:29 am
Looks like that new  ;)  10Hz RBW along with 10Hz VBW bring the noise floor down so low that these glitches appear when you may not normally see them at the designed minimum RBW of 100Hz.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: olsenn on August 17, 2013, 03:48:01 am
Quote
Looks like that new  ;)  10Hz RBW along with 10Hz VBW bring the noise floor down so low that these glitches appear when you may not normally see them at the designed minimum RBW of 100Hz.

I wouldn't call it a glitch necessarily; this is actually a sign that the device is working well. The frequencies mentioned are being used by the DSA815 itself, and the signals are being coupled to the input. Even a simple trace on a PCB acts as an antenna; so while perhaps it may be argued that better shielding should have been used, I'd say that overall this device is performing admirably. And at 10Hz RBW that none of us should have available to us anyhow, I have to say, stop complaining, haha.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Matthias Toussaint on August 17, 2013, 12:52:25 pm
I can't recall having complained about the frequency peaks. I was just curious where these might come from.

- 10MHz must be the internal reference
- 900KHz could be the LCD display??
- 750Mhz??
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: jsykes on August 17, 2013, 05:39:43 pm
Quote
Looks like that new  ;)  10Hz RBW along with 10Hz VBW bring the noise floor down so low that these glitches appear when you may not normally see them at the designed minimum RBW of 100Hz.

I wouldn't call it a glitch necessarily; this is actually a sign that the device is working well. The frequencies mentioned are being used by the DSA815 itself, and the signals are being coupled to the input. Even a simple trace on a PCB acts as an antenna; so while perhaps it may be argued that better shielding should have been used, I'd say that overall this device is performing admirably. And at 10Hz RBW that none of us should have available to us anyhow, I have to say, stop complaining, haha.

I guess in so many words that's what I was saying too. I don't see these at the 100Hz setting and It wasn't designed for 10HZ RBW, so I totally agree. It's also good and fun to speculate their source. I think it's safe to say that we love our 815's  :)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Velund on August 18, 2013, 03:55:44 am
I guess in so many words that's what I was saying too. I don't see these at the 100Hz setting and It wasn't designed for 10HZ RBW, so I totally agree. It's also good and fun to speculate their source. I think it's safe to say that we love our 815's  :)

Maybe this internal leakage was one of reasons to stop offering 10 Hz RBW as a software option?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: PA0PBZ on August 18, 2013, 11:04:28 am
Maybe this internal leakage was one of reasons to stop offering 10 Hz RBW as a software option?

I was wondering the same. It is strange that the spurious can't be seen on 100Hz RBW, since all the signals are more than 10dB above the noise floor, and the noise floor should be 10dB up on 100Hz compared to 10Hz RBW. Makes me think that there is something else going on, like a 2nd or 3rd order intermodulation product.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Orange on August 18, 2013, 11:41:59 am
Maybe this internal leakage was one of reasons to stop offering 10 Hz RBW as a software option?

I was wondering the same. It is strange that the spurious can't be seen on 100Hz RBW, since all the signals are more than 10dB above the noise floor, and the noise floor should be 10dB up on 100Hz compared to 10Hz RBW. Makes me think that there is something else going on, like a 2nd or 3rd order intermodulation product.
Whats this fuss about a few spurs that are -125dBm, any idea how low that is ?. I geuss not.
The spurs are by no means a reason for RIGOL not include the 10Hz RBW. I think is due to the fact that their DSA1030A has 10Hz RBW standard which is 2 or 3 times as expensive.

BTW the spurs can also be seen with 100Hz RBW and 10 Hz video BW.....
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Velund on August 19, 2013, 11:44:34 am
I think is due to the fact that their DSA1030A has 10Hz RBW standard which is 2 or 3 times as expensive.

DSA1030A is already out of price range that most amateurs can afford, just for hobby. And it does not add anything really valuable for amateurs - 2.4 GHz band is of little interest for the most of them. I purchased DSA815-TG (actually two of them now - one for home lab and one for a club). I'm sure i would never purchase 1030.
 
Concerning options offered for 815 - I'm completely sure I would never purchase AMK and EMC (not need at all), and doubt I would ever spend more than $100 for VSWR (I already have Eagle RLB and I almost memorized return loss to VSWR conversion table already).  ;) Concerning 10 Hz RBW - it is question of price. No immediate need for it, and I have access to higher class equipment at work.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: dpenev on August 19, 2013, 02:20:03 pm
Hi Guys,

I consider using DSA815-TG for a scalar network measurements.
I want to check the behavior of a micro strip line in a range of 1GHz - 2GHz

Unfortunately DSA815-TG is up to 1.5GHz. (which BTW is OK for most of the application I have)

Can you suggest an inexpensive down converter option so I am able to see 1GHz- 2GHz.
It is OK to modify an inexpensive satellite dish LNB. Can you suggest some?
I see there are some rated at 2.2-2.4Ghz.
I saw also some ~1.8GHz. Probably the former are closer to what I need?   
I think 1GHz LO will be OK for my application. Is this only the LO which I may need to adjust?
I saw Aurora pointed some links at the beginning of this thread.   

Do you think the calibration setup will be a big burden?
How linear are those down converters?
I don't have any practical experience with those.

Any pointers and help in this respect greatly appreciated!
Dimitar 
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Fraser on August 19, 2013, 02:35:09 pm
There is too much gain in many LNB's (many are +60dB) so you need to tame them and remove microwave filters if they do not cover the correct frequency. Microwave block down converters are great to use as 'off the shelf' and often cheap ways to 'see' a section of the microwave spectrum. Whether they are able to work at the required frequencies is another matter as most are dedicated to a task and filtered as such. The Local Oscillators are also normally at some odd frequency rather than a simple 1,2,3,4 GHz etc. A bit of simple maths is then needed to work out the displayed frequency on the SA. You also need to know whether they have a forward or reverse IF output (high or low side LO injection).

The cheap and dirty method to up and down convert is to buy a passive mixer that covers the frequencies that you want, both IF and RF, you then inject a Local oscillator at around +7dBm at the desired frequency.

In your case I would choose a mini circuits mixer that can handle the 1 to 2 GHz RF side whilst providing 0 to 1GHz Intermediate Frequency. This is all Superheterodyne (Superhet) receiver theory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superheterodyne_receiver (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superheterodyne_receiver)

Without filtering there are issues with mixer products but if you know the frequency you are wishing to observe you should be OK . You can also upconvert the output of a Tracking Generator in the same way. In my example you could upconvert a 0 to 1 GHz sweep to 1 to 2 GHz using a 1GHz LO.

The local oscillator can be anything decent with enough drive for the mixer or use  aMMIC to amplify the drive level. Mini-circuits produce suitable VCO's that will work well for the task and they can be set to the desired frequency.

Calibration is a challenge. If you are using a VCO, you need to either Phase Lock it to a crystal or let it free run and monitor the output frequency, adjusting the frequency manually as required. A fixed, crystal controlled 1GHz oscillator would bee ideal but these are not easy to find cheaply. Amplitude calibration is best done by comparison to a signal generator producing a near-by frequency against which the level calibration may be set with an attenuator.

The simplest converter that I built was formatted as follows:

A manually trimmed 1GHz Voltage Controlled Oscillator was fed to a Minicircuits ERA MMIC RF amplifier, and then split between two mixer LO inputs using a Minicircuits splitter/combiner. The two Mixers were microwave types from minicircuits that provided an IF spec of 0-1GHz and and RF/LO of 1 to 2GHz.the LO feed requirement was +7dBm.

One mixer was fed with the output of the Tracking Generator into its IF input, producing 1 to 2 GHz from its RF output. The other mixer was fed with the RF into its RF input and produced an IF of 0 to 1GHz out to feed the SA input.

All this was done using convenient Minicircuits modules and SMA interconnects. This was the fast way to build such a unit but a cheaper method is to use any commonly available VCO and mixers that meet the desired frequency coverage. Simple SMD MMIC amplifiers may be used in combination with SMD attenuators to get the levels right.

www.minicircuits.com (http://www.minicircuits.com)

With a combined up and down converter sharing the same VCO frequency, return loss and transmission tests may be carried out using a decent directional coupler. Minicircuits sell this as well !

Fraser
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: dpenev on August 23, 2013, 12:43:37 pm
Hi Aurora,

Thank you for the detailed explanation.
I guess there are are some 'universal' pre-made up/down converters people use together with their spectrum analyzers?

I've also noticed Linear Technology have series of frequency converters and local oscillators as an ICs.
Alternatively I may decide to built an universal down/up converter to extend my spectrum analyzer range.
Does anyone happen to know an open hardware design about this?

Thank you
Dimitar
Title: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: claude3386 on August 23, 2013, 01:30:05 pm
Hello,

ATTEN has 3 down-converters
AT5000-F1, 1050-2050MHz to 50-1050MHz
AT5000-F2, 2050-3050MHz to 50-1050MHz
AT5000-F3, 3050-4050MHz to 50-1050MHz

http://www.attenelectronics.com/Products/Instrument/Spectrum%5FAnalyzer/ (http://www.attenelectronics.com/Products/Instrument/Spectrum%5FAnalyzer/)

I don't know how they perform.
I just got the F1 but not yet tested.

Claude
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: dpenev on August 23, 2013, 09:02:04 pm
Thanks claude3386 for the info.
Please let me know after you test it.

my problem a scalar network estimation (using the tracking generator of my spectrum aanalyzer)
So I will need a symmetrical up-converter as well.

Best Regards
Dimitar


 
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: G0HZU on August 24, 2013, 12:09:44 pm
Quote
I want to check the behavior of a micro strip line in a range of 1GHz - 2GHz

I'm not sure what tests you want to do but could you achieve this just using a signal generator, a home made return loss bridge and a very basic home made RF detector?
i.e. you wouldn't really need a spectrum analyser,
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: tlu on August 27, 2013, 02:11:22 am
Now that the 10Hz RBW is taken care off, will there be a chance the BW could be done the same way? Does a HW modification be needed to accomplish this?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: dpenev on September 20, 2013, 08:57:28 am
Hi Guys,

I have already spend 1 day with my DSA8150TG.
Is this only me who miss a logarithmic frequency scale?
I think this is really important, especial for the filter measurements.   

I hope I have just missed to find this option. :)
Dimitar
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Orange on September 20, 2013, 02:58:57 pm
Hi Guys,

I have already spend 1 day with my DSA8150TG.
Is this only me who miss a logarithmic frequency scale?
I think this is really important, especial for the filter measurements.   

I hope I have just missed to find this option. :)
Dimitar
Well. This is an RF spectrum analyser. The old school analysers I know don't have a log scale for the frequency. And to be quite honest. If you are adjusting an RF-filter you want to have a linear scale, else you might be fooled about the passband shape.
I don't recall that I have ever seen a log freq scale on an RF analyser.

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: dpenev on September 20, 2013, 03:55:19 pm
Hi Orange,

Thank you for your comment!

I have experience with HP4195A which is network/spectrum analyzer and it has log frequency scale.
BTW in my work I found pretty often pure spectrum plots in the the log frequency scale.
For example the EMI certification is based on the log-x scaled spectral masks.

DSA815TG is indeed spectrum analyzer but it has tracking generator which allows scalar network measurements.
I am not sure about RF filters but cable or lumped network filters have roll off looking better in the log freq scale.
I guess it will be the same for the RF filters?
 
In MHO log frequency scale option will be a plus for DSA815TG.
Is this only me thinking like that?

Dimitar
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: jahonen on September 20, 2013, 04:39:45 pm
Log frequency scale is useful if sweeping a wide bandwidth and one wants to maintain constant relative frequency resolution, i.e. see difference of 100 and 500 kHz at same time than 100 and 500 MHz. I use it quite often with my R&S FSV7. For example, a measurement of a SMPS output having some spurious resonance problems:

(http://koti.mbnet.fi/jahonen/Electronics/Measurements/Spectrum/SMPS_Output_resonance.PNG)

There one can clearly see the switching fundamental and harmonics, and a severe resonance at about 30 MHz.

Regards,
Janne
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: G0HZU on September 20, 2013, 09:08:27 pm
Hi Guys,

I have already spend 1 day with my DSA8150TG.
Is this only me who miss a logarithmic frequency scale?
I think this is really important, especial for the filter measurements.   

I hope I have just missed to find this option. :)
Dimitar
Well. This is an RF spectrum analyser. The old school analysers I know don't have a log scale for the frequency. And to be quite honest. If you are adjusting an RF-filter you want to have a linear scale, else you might be fooled about the passband shape.
I don't recall that I have ever seen a log freq scale on an RF analyser.

My Advantest TR4172 is an old school RF spectrum analyser and it has the ability to show a log display on frequency.

It has a tracking gen as standard and can also display phase and group delay. With the optional external bridge it can also display impedance.

It also has various EMC features such as quasi peak detection.  A very versatile instrument but I think it was one of the most expensive RF spectrum analysers in the world about 25 years ago :)

I think the HP8568B can also have a log frequency display but you have to send it the program code information over GPIB to draw the display on the screen. But it can be done.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: EMC on September 22, 2013, 08:39:05 am
I totally agree regards log frequency axis.   Can live with log or dB y axis.   The easiest way I can see would be via remote interface.  i.e. make an application to download the trace and display in a graph that you construct.   I am still looking for the best environment for a hobbiest to do this, anyone made an application for the DSA815TG?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: dpenev on September 22, 2013, 06:21:03 pm
Hi Gents,

There is a PC based software Ultra Spectrum which is suppose to connect to DSA815.
I was not able to install on the Windows 7 64bit. 
Probably it adds some extra features like the log frequency axis?
Can someone share his opinion about it?

Dimitar
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: TomThomas on September 23, 2013, 10:26:24 am
Hi Gents,

There is a PC based software Ultra Spectrum which is suppose to connect to DSA815.
I was not able to install on the Windows 7 64bit. 
Probably it adds some extra features like the log frequency axis?
Can someone share his opinion about it?

Dimitar

Hi Dimitar,

to be able to use Ultra Spectrum you need to buy a license. Without license you have 15 days trial time.
Installing under Win7 worked on my Computer fine. Have you installed Ultra Sigma first?
Also take care about regional Settings (dot and comma) It has to be "US style"

br
Tom
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: EMC on September 24, 2013, 08:20:19 am
Dimitar,

I trialed ultra spectrum for 14 days & reached the conclusion above.  It was stable & operated correctly on my 64 bit windows 7 notebook.    It may have installed correctly on your machine & you are not invoking it.   Thr Rigol instrument software has a 'unique' structure |O.   First connect the USB cable & allow driver dection time to initialise.  Then invoke Ultra Sigma, Rigol instrument control.   At this point the DSA815 should be there and an *IDN? followed by a read operation will verify communications.   Right click DSA815 if Ultra Spectrum in installed select & invoke.

Go to advanved for more functioality including waterfall, but all I could use it is good for would be an electromagnetic ambient site survey.  No good for EMI testing.

Steve
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: fqahmad66 on September 24, 2013, 12:02:13 pm
http://peter.dreisiebner.at/rigol-dsa815-lan/ (http://peter.dreisiebner.at/rigol-dsa815-lan/)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: EMC on September 26, 2013, 07:47:43 am
Peter,

Thanks for that program.   I have to set up a reliable network connection to evaluate  :-\, not done yet.   The progam is very small; what enviroment did you use to create it?

Steve

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Wall-E on October 05, 2013, 02:55:59 pm
Source:  anonymous

                    Enhanced Specifications for DSA815
                  with 10 Hz Resolution Bandwidth Option

     Resolution             Displayed Average                SSB
     Bandwidth            Noise Level (DANL)           Phase Noise     
    -------------           -----------------------          --------------

 10 Hz to 1 MHz,               -145dBm                   -85 dBc/Hz
1-3-10 sequence                                            @10 kHz offset
   
                                                                               Re.  Option 03  June 2013

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Wall-E on October 07, 2013, 10:59:04 pm
The DSA815 10 Hz RBW option was initially released to sell in the U.S. for $499, but was discontinued prior to any sales. It is currently planed for incorporation into the up coming DSA830 3 GHz Spectrum Analyzer. 
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: TomThomas on October 09, 2013, 12:16:39 pm
The DSA815 10 Hz RBW option was initially released to sell in the U.S. for $499, but was discontinued prior to any sales. It is currently planed for incorporation into the up coming DSA830 3 GHz Spectrum Analyzer.

Who gave you this kind of information? I'm wondering why Rigol should add another 3GHz Spectrum Analyzer? DSA830 + DSA1030 + DSA1030A for me this step makes no sense.

Rgds
Tom
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Wall-E on October 10, 2013, 10:47:56 am
Re: DSA800 10 Hz RBW Option 03  ;)
Source: Rigol anonymous   8)
Why: Newer technology design with lower cost, reduced weight and warmup time, using DSA800 series firmware base, etc.  :-+
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: fqahmad66 on October 15, 2013, 03:07:23 pm
Peter just made his application unavailable.. :-//
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: dr.diesel on October 15, 2013, 03:12:53 pm
Peter just made his application unavailable.. :-//

Yeah, curious.  He adds a nice screen capture utility though, works great on my Linux box.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: olsenn on October 21, 2013, 08:14:14 pm
This is only the current statement; if the device is physically capable of operating at a 3GHz bandwidth, and there is a business need/desire to operate the device at a 3GHz bandwidth, the by god the device is gonna operate at a 3GHz bandwidth!
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: auato on October 30, 2013, 07:42:19 pm
Hi there.
I wish to get your attention for a strange behaviour about my Rigol DSA815TG just to know if my instrument have a trouble or I am forgotting something.
Yesterday I tried to check the response curve of a simple 145MHz cavity filter (first picture) by two different ways:

1) by my Rigol DSA815TG scalar network integrated system;
2) by HP8595E spectrum analyzer + Wiltron 6621B programmable sweep generator (two instruments run independently so they are no syncronized; Wiltron generator runs faster at 10ms of sweep and HP8959E has a slow sweep at 20 seconds - see the second picture).

(http://www.ev-electronicvillage.com/images/RigolDSA815/1.JPG)

(http://www.ev-electronicvillage.com/images/RigolDSA815/2.JPG)

(http://www.ev-electronicvillage.com/images/RigolDSA815/3.JPG)

(http://www.ev-electronicvillage.com/images/RigolDSA815/4.JPG)

The curves of the same cavity with the same cables are different. Two spectrum analyzers are set in the same mode:
-Center frequency 145MHz
-Span 200MHz
-Ref. level 0dBm
-ampl. scale 10dB/div.


Wiltron:
-start freq. 10MHz to 12.5GHz
-level 0dBm

Of course I have just normalized the DSA815's tracking generator before.
As you can see both show the peak at 150MHz but the Rigol doesn't show the negative peak afterwards (red arrow on the third picture)

What do you think about?

Rgds
auato
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Mr Simpleton on October 30, 2013, 08:04:29 pm
This is surely a measurement error!  |O

Try to find the noise floor of the Rigol with no input signal, and then adjust the TG amplitud so the peak is ~50 dB above, you should be able to see the dip.

Reducing noise floor (less RBW) and slower sweep may be a better idea!
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Clint on October 30, 2013, 08:06:12 pm
Have you tried using the sweep gen and measuring the output with a T into both SA's the RIGOL in normal SA mode ?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: G0HZU on October 30, 2013, 09:15:38 pm
I think the Rigol defaults to the peak detector algorithm in the DSP so the noise floor will look very high on the Rigol unless you choose a different detector in the menus. Many analysers offer a 'normal' detector, a positive peak detector, negative peak detector and a sample detector.

Most analysers will have a noise figure of around 30dB with 0dB attenuation so the noise floor with a 1MHz RBW and 10dB atten selected should be about -74dBm (i.e. -134dBm/Hz on a 1Hz noise marker) on a typical analyser. The analysers I have here typically show a noise floor a few dB lower than this with the 10dB attenuator selected. The Rigol response looks to be about 20dB worse than this with the peak detector selected but you aren't supposed to use the peak detector to look at noise.

Most analysers would default to the normal detector as an all round compromise so maybe try again with this selected. You could also try the sample detector (best detector for noise) but on many analysers this can cause some subtle types of signal information to be lost if it is close to the noise floor. Also try turning down the RBW a bit as already suggested.

Also, I think you need to select a much narrower span if you want to see the (narrow) cavity response properly and this applies to both analysers.
Try looking at it on a 10MHz span with a 10kHz RBW on both analysers and you should get a better idea of its true insertion loss.



Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: johnny_canuck on October 31, 2013, 02:14:53 am
Auato, try slowing down the '815's sweep time. 20 Seconds (HP) vs 10 milliSeconds (Rigol) isn't exactly a level playfield.

Ken, VE3FIT

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: auato on October 31, 2013, 09:47:12 am
Thanks all, guys!

Here following some suggested hints:


rigol DSA815TG (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMGUwi23Pjc#ws)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Mr Simpleton on October 31, 2013, 11:10:23 am
I find it a bit odd that the noise floor with no input is so high  :-//
Should be 20 db lower... still all pics I've seen shows the traces around the middle of the display.

Maybe we could have someone  test and verify that the instrument do meet the specs wrt. noise floor and sensitivity vs. RBW, especillaly with wider filters
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: auato on October 31, 2013, 02:00:09 pm
I find it a bit odd that the noise floor with no input is so high  :-//
Should be 20 db lower... still all pics I've seen shows the traces around the middle of the display.

Maybe we could have someone  test and verify that the instrument do meet the specs wrt. noise floor and sensitivity vs. RBW, especillaly with wider filters

Yes, you are right. Big difference of noise floor between them (-53dBm vs -65dBm).
But for the DSA815 it sounds like normal DSA815 TG Basic Spectrum Analysis (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cca5kI1kHUk#ws)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: olsenn on October 31, 2013, 02:13:39 pm
Quote
Yes, you are right. Big difference of noise floor between them (-53dBm vs -65dBm).
But for the DSA815 it sounds like normal

Try turning the input attenuation off and enabling the pre-amplifier
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: rf-loop on October 31, 2013, 06:05:22 pm
In these images HP have 3MHz RBW and Rigol 1MHz RBW.  Of course it can calculate but it is better to compare with same RBW.
No big difference but some. Noise is related to RBW so that RBW divided by 10 drops noise floor 10dB.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: G0HZU on October 31, 2013, 08:24:18 pm
I find it a bit odd that the noise floor with no input is so high  :-//
Should be 20 db lower... still all pics I've seen shows the traces around the middle of the display.

Maybe we could have someone  test and verify that the instrument do meet the specs wrt. noise floor and sensitivity vs. RBW, especillaly with wider filters

Yes, it does look very high... Looking at the specs the noise figure with the 10dB attenuator inline is about 49dB.

So the noise floor with a 1MHz RBW should be about -65dBm. But the default detector is the peak detector and if the VBW is also up at 1MHz then this will lift the trace up by several dB.

So this could make the trace hover around -57dBm on a wide span.

If the 1Hz noise marker function was activated it should auto switch across to the 'sample' detector and if a bit of averaging is switched in then I'd expect the noise marker to show a noise floor of about -125dBm/Hz with the 10dB attenuator selected. This is based on the spec sheet so the actual result could be a bit different  :)

BY contrast, my HP8566B shows a noise floor of -139dBm/Hz at 145MHz with the 10dB attenuator selected and the (corrected) 1Hz noise marker function. If the RBW is set to 1MHz and the sample detector is selected then the noise averages at just under -80dBm on the display. However this noise level isn't 'corrected' (eg the nature of the log detector will affect the displayed noise level) and the true noise level will be a little bit higher. It should be about -79dBm in a 1MHz bandwidth if it was corrected.



Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: gmit77 on November 25, 2013, 09:38:38 pm
we will see a new Rigol 6GHz spectrum analyzer most probably begin of 2014.
6GHz RF Generator has been already released  :-+


The DSA815 10 Hz RBW option was initially released to sell in the U.S. for $499, but was discontinued prior to any sales. It is currently planed for incorporation into the up coming DSA830 3 GHz Spectrum Analyzer.

Who gave you this kind of information? I'm wondering why Rigol should add another 3GHz Spectrum Analyzer? DSA830 + DSA1030 + DSA1030A for me this step makes no sense.

Rgds
Tom
Title: Rigol DSA815 - need help with power up problem
Post by: Pinkus on November 27, 2013, 06:05:48 pm
I need some help with my DSA815:
I am using all my measurement stuff such as my scope and my DSA815 on a switchable power strip.
By this I avoid that they are powered all the time. When switching the power strip to 'ON', all devices should show the heartbeep on the power button, waiting to be pressed to power up the needed device.
Now to the problem:
For quite some time now the DSA815 switches on (powers up) immediately when I switch on the power strip. I hasn't done this from the beginning, so I assume I might changed a menu entry but I cannot find such an entry. I even have no idea if there is a menu item to avoid that. I already tried to set it back to factory default but no change.
Is there anything I oversaw? Any hidden menu item to select this behaviour?
Thanks for your help!!

Title: Re: Rigol DSA815 - need help with power up problem
Post by: mrflibble on November 28, 2013, 06:52:11 am
For quite some time now the DSA815 switches on (powers up) immediately when I switch on the power strip. I hasn't done this from the beginning, so I assume I might changed a menu entry but I cannot find such an entry. I even have no idea if there is a menu item to avoid that. I already tried to set it back to factory default but no change.
Is there anything I oversaw? Any hidden menu item to select this behaviour?
Thanks for your help!!

Maybe something silly as "resume on AC power loss". If that's the case you should see a difference in behaviour between:

- have DSA815 turned on, switch off power strip, wait a bit, turn on power strip
- have DSA815 turned on, then turn off DSA815, then switch off power strip, wait a bit, turn on power strip

Unfortunately can't check that because I don't have a DSA815 (yet). :P

Deciding if I should buy one or not. The DSA815-TG with bandwidth hack looks pretty interesting. That said, this model has been around for a while, so maybe when Rigol introduces new models in 2014 the price will come down. Also, what are the chances of 2014 versions of the DSA815 (maybe new board revisions?) still are hackable?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Pinkus on November 28, 2013, 08:19:09 am
Thought that too, but I could not find an option for "resume on AC power loss".
If nobody knows this behaviour nor can help, I shall send a mail to Rigol to ask about this.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: mrflibble on November 28, 2013, 08:24:13 am
Thought that too, but I could not find an option for "resume on AC power loss".
If nobody knows this behaviour nor can help, I shall send a mail to Rigol to ask about this.

Well, you'll have to look for the Chinglish equivalent. So probably something like "return after the loss of milk requirement".
Title: Re: Rigol DSA815 - need help with power up problem
Post by: Rory on November 28, 2013, 05:18:26 pm
I need some help with my DSA815:
I am using all my measurement stuff such as my scope and my DSA815 on a switchable power strip.
By this I avoid that they are powered all the time. When switching the power strip to 'ON', all devices should show the heartbeep on the power button, waiting to be pressed to power up the needed device.
Now to the problem:
For quite some time now the DSA815 switches on (powers up) immediately when I switch on the power strip. I hasn't done this from the beginning, so I assume I might changed a menu entry but I cannot find such an entry. I even have no idea if there is a menu item to avoid that. I already tried to set it back to factory default but no change.
Is there anything I oversaw? Any hidden menu item to select this behaviour?
Thanks for your help!!
Page 2-110.

http://www.rigol.com/download/Oversea/DSA/User_guide/DSA800_UserGuide_EN.pdf (http://www.rigol.com/download/Oversea/DSA/User_guide/DSA800_UserGuide_EN.pdf)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on December 03, 2013, 04:27:08 pm
DSA815-TG Spectrum Analyzer - 121 VAC Power Consumption:
Measurements are considered approximate due to uncertainty of measurement equipment accuracy, although should be very useful as general figure of merit.

Standby Mode (AC plugged in, OFF)
   W      1
   VA    7
   A      0.06
   PF    0.18

Operating Mode (Power ON), TG OFF/ON
   W     21/24
   VA   22/26
   A      0.18/0.21
   PF    0.96/0.91
Title: Re: Rigol DSA815 - need help with power up problem
Post by: Pinkus on December 03, 2013, 04:46:15 pm
Page 2-110.
Thank you Rory. I'll try this out, probably it is the solution to my problem.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on December 04, 2013, 01:59:54 pm
Minimum Loss 50 to 75 Ohm Matching Pad for Rigol DSA815-TG

How to make one, and why you might want to. . .
See PDF attachment:
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on December 04, 2013, 02:07:36 pm
RF Input Limiter for Spectrum Analyzer (DSA815, or any other)

How to make one, and why you might want to. . .
See PDF attachment:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why would I want to bother with this?

Provides for being able to have full sensitivity on the DSA815 while still being automatically protected from a high level signal that may suddenly, or unexpectedly appear on the antenna, etc.

Nothing to screw on and off, and nothing to get screwed !
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: olsenn on December 04, 2013, 06:12:23 pm
Quote
RF Input Limiter for Spectrum Analyzer (DSA815, or any other)

How to make one, and why you might want to. . .
See PDF attachment:

I just have a 30db attenuater connected to the input of mine. If the attenuated signal is too small to pick up over the noise floor of the instrument, I just enable the pre-amp, or worst case scenario, just unscrew the attenuater.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: jstarr on December 16, 2013, 12:35:54 am
I just got my DSA-815-TG, calibration dated Oct 2013.  I only see 5 options.  Opt 2,4,5 are trials and counting down while Opt 3 is not active.  As far as I can determine the inactive option is the 10Hz RBW.  Were there any other options in earlier manufactures, I have seen 6 options in other posts?

john
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Sparky on December 16, 2013, 07:46:32 am
I just got my DSA-815-TG, calibration dated Oct 2013.  I only see 5 options.  Opt 2,4,5 are trials and counting down while Opt 3 is not active.  As far as I can determine the inactive option is the 10Hz RBW.  Were there any other options in earlier manufactures, I have seen 6 options in other posts?

No.  There is only 5 options.

Option 1 = TG (Tracking Generator)
Option 2 = AMK (Advanced Measurement Kit)
Option 3 = 10Hz RBW
Option 4 = EMI (EMI Filter & Quasi-Peak Detector)
Option 5 = VSWR (VSWR Measurement)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: jstarr on December 16, 2013, 11:37:40 am
Thanks, any idea why they would not give a trial of the 10hz RBW along with the other trials?

j
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on December 16, 2013, 02:37:53 pm
Thanks, any idea why they would not give a trial of the 10hz RBW along with the other trials?

j
Option 3, 10Hz RBW is NOT offered as a Trial because it is not available for purchase.  At one time they were considering offering it for US $499, but that idea was squelched quickly.  Then someone at Rigol China made a blunder and activated it as a Trial early in 2013 on a limited number of units.  Of course people that were familiar with the use of a Spectrum Analyzer (engineers/technicians) immediately wanted it.  Oh - So Sorry Charlie!, was the response.

Although it is embedded in the Firmware, so if you activate it with the Keygen (available here in the forum), you should be blessed with having it!  Let us know if you are unable to activate it it.  Don't wait until the next firmware update to do it, that may be too late(?).
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Rory on December 16, 2013, 03:33:18 pm
Keygen options work fine with firmware version 00.01.07.

10 and 30 hz bandwidths available. Just require long sweep times and narrow span to be useful.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Velund on December 27, 2013, 09:39:00 pm
Don't wait until the next firmware update to do it, that may be too late(?).

Looks like I'll leave my DSA with current firmware (00.01.07) unless something really useful will appear in updates. ;)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: hpux735 on December 31, 2013, 04:34:20 am
I just got one of these (DSA815-TG).  I'm loving it so far.  I have noticed the instantaneous dynamic range is a bit underwhelming.  While performing tests on a home made 1013.3 MHz cavity filter I hit the noise floor before the filters ultimate rejection (should be about 100dB).  But, other than that, very happy.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Velund on January 02, 2014, 11:46:12 pm
While performing tests on a home made 1013.3 MHz cavity filter I hit the noise floor before the filters ultimate rejection (should be about 100dB). 

Hm... Did you turn preamp on during that measurement?


By the way, does anyone looked at KE5FX GPIB toolkit and, more specifically, PN, aurtomated phase-noise measurement  tool?

http://www.ke5fx.com/gpib/pn.htm (http://www.ke5fx.com/gpib/pn.htm)

Is it technically possible to add Rigol support to that tool? Even with all limitations..... Maybe there will be really good use for 10 Hz RBW option. ;)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: hpux735 on January 02, 2014, 11:54:44 pm
While performing tests on a home made 1013.3 MHz cavity filter I hit the noise floor before the filters ultimate rejection (should be about 100dB). 

Hm... Did you turn preamp on during that measurement?


I did.  But after playing with it some more, it seems like the amplitude menu/system is kinda buggy.  It's entirely possible that I don't know what I'm doing, but it seems like the reference level adjustment doesn't do anything sometimes.  I can change the value, and the ref level text in the top-left changes, but the graph doesn't change nor do the labels on the grid lines.  If I play with it enough, sometimes I can get it to do what I want.  I'll try again now that I know that.

Has anyone else noticed this?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: hpux735 on January 03, 2014, 04:51:38 pm
I've narrowed it down to the tracking generator, in both counts.

Buggy amplitude menu:  Only happens when you are working with a normalized TG output.  I would expect that when I normalize the TG, it should have a trace at 0 dBm (which I should be able to change in the normalize menu, and can).  Then, everything should behave as normal.  I should be able to move the reference trace (in the ampt menu) up or down.  Up, for filters, down for amps.  This doesn't work.  If I turn the normalization back off (and accept the 4dB or uncertainty) it works as expected.

Noise floor/Dynamic range: When the tracking gen is running, the minimum value I can get out of the noise floor is -94dBm.  Try it.  Turn on the preamp, your narrowest RBW (10Hz in my case).  Let it run for a bit with the power average.  Now, clear the trace, turn off the TG, and do it again.  At 1034 MHz I'm getting -140dBm.  This is pretty disappointing.  All I can really say, is that my distant rejection of my filter (which would block the image frequency) is better than 100dB.  That's O.k., I guess, but not ideal.  I'm thinking about using another signal generator to perform the measurement.

Ideas?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Pinkus on January 09, 2014, 11:03:36 am
FYI: there is a new firmware for the DSA815 available

Version?00.01.08.00.03   Date?2013-12-02
1.      Solve the problem some spelling mistakes
2.      Temporary solution to the problem LXI communication is unstable.
3.      Increased multi-language support, including Portuguese,German,Polish,Korean and Japanese.
4.      Solve the problem marker table and PF don’t display correctly.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Vtech on January 09, 2014, 12:36:14 pm
I've attached the new firmware 00.01.08 (full name 00.01.08.00.03) dated 2013-12-02
Since this forum limits single file size to 1MB I had to split it using 7zip and change file extension.

Remove .zip from file name - it should be DSA800(DSP)update_00.01.08.00.03 zip.001 and DSA800(DSP)update_00.01.08.00.03 zip.002

I've successfully upgraded my DSA using Storage->{select "Mobile disk"}->{select file DSA800_UpdateFile.sys}->Sys Update.
All licenses stayed intact (including those added using keygen) and are functioning correctly. The biggest change is additional languages added.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: hpux735 on January 09, 2014, 03:22:03 pm
I've attached the new firmware 00.01.08 (full name 00.01.08.00.03) dated 2013-12-02
Since this forum limits single file size to 1MB I had to split it using 7zip and change file extension. Remove .zip from file name - it should be DSA800(DSP)update_00.01.08.00.03 zip.001 and DSA800(DSP)update_00.01.08.00.03 zip.002

I've successfully upgraded my DSA using Storage->{select "Mobile disk"}->{select file DSA800_UpdateFile.sys}->Sys Update.
All licenses stayed intact (including those added using keygen) and are functioning correctly. The biggest change is additional languages added.

Thanks for the heads-up!  Is there any reference to release notes anywhere?  Or do we just get to guess which bugs are fixed?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Sparky on January 09, 2014, 03:43:16 pm
I've attached the new firmware 00.01.08 (full name 00.01.08.00.03) dated 2013-12-02
Since this forum limits single file size to 1MB I had to split it using 7zip and change file extension. Remove .zip from file name - it should be DSA800(DSP)update_00.01.08.00.03 zip.001 and DSA800(DSP)update_00.01.08.00.03 zip.002

I've successfully upgraded my DSA using Storage->{select "Mobile disk"}->{select file DSA800_UpdateFile.sys}->Sys Update.
All licenses stayed intact (including those added using keygen) and are functioning correctly. The biggest change is additional languages added.

Thanks for the heads-up!  Is there any reference to release notes anywhere?  Or do we just get to guess which bugs are fixed?

The download posted by Vtech includes a "Version Notes" document with details.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Vtech on January 09, 2014, 03:51:11 pm
"Version Notes" document inside the zip is a bit Chinese (a lot actually) but the change list is the same as Pinkus posted earlier:
Version?00.01.08.00.03   Date?2013-12-02
1.      Solve the problem some spelling mistakes
2.      Temporary solution to the problem LXI communication is unstable.
3.      Increased multi-language support, including Portuguese,German,Polish,Korean and Japanese.
4.      Solve the problem marker table and PF don’t display correctly.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Lunasix on January 09, 2014, 04:00:03 pm
Hello,

when I try to extract files with 7zip, I've got an error. I've made same treatment with other files without any error, I think there is an error in file 2 uploaded.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Vtech on January 09, 2014, 04:10:39 pm
Have you changed the file extension? You have to remove the last .zip and leave only .zip.001 and .zip.002. I had to add it because of file type limitations on this forum. Other guys seems to have no problem extracting files.

I've added Rigol update instruction (again, because of the size limitation I had to convert it to b&w)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Rory on January 09, 2014, 04:11:14 pm
Anybody with the option hack try this yet?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Vtech on January 09, 2014, 04:12:56 pm
As I said earlier I've installed it over hacked DS815 and all hacked keys still work fine.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Sparky on January 09, 2014, 04:19:08 pm
when I try to extract files with 7zip, I've got an error. I've made same treatment with other files without any error, I think there is an error in file 2 uploaded.

The problem is the file names are actually different (other than the simple 001 and 002), so the files cannot join successfully.

DSA800(DSP)update_00.01.08.00.03 zip.001.zip  << notice a missing '.' before the first 'zip'
DSA800(DSP)update_00.01.08.00.03.zip.002.zip

Make sure the filenames are identical other than the 001 and 002 on the end (remove the last .zip). I joined the files with HJsplit, and then unzip with WinZip works fine.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Rory on January 09, 2014, 04:19:48 pm
As I said earlier I've installed it over hacked DS815 and all hacked keys still work fine.
Sorry, I came in on this from a link in a different thread and didn't see your earlier post. Thanks for repeating yourself for my benefit, I appreciate it.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Lunasix on January 09, 2014, 04:21:44 pm
To Vtech : yes. As I didn't know it was possible to split a zip file, I made the test on another file (zip split and then unzip) to understand how to do. On my file, it works fine. I also tried to reload files from here, alwas with same result.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Vtech on January 09, 2014, 04:25:01 pm
Damm... Sparky is rigth - "." was missing from the file name. Don't  know how it happened  :-// but I've fixed it.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Lunasix on January 09, 2014, 04:26:28 pm
I've just seen the last Sparky's response, and obvious when we have seen it : the point on the name !!! :) It works fine now.

Thanks to all ! I try the upgrade.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Vtech on January 09, 2014, 04:34:04 pm
Ok. Rapidshare should solve the problem:
DSA800(DSP)update_00.01.08.00.03.zip
http://rapidshare.com/share/5123813300A5B6F4E69F3035E5149BC5 (http://rapidshare.com/share/5123813300A5B6F4E69F3035E5149BC5)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Lunasix on January 09, 2014, 04:52:38 pm
Split file is a good solution, and stays on the same server.

Upgrade is ok, no problem with options.

I had 04 version, made a request for 07, have rapidly a response from Rigol that my actual version was the latest (mistake request/actual) !
I made 2 other requests after this mistake, but no response !
EEV better than Rigol !!!

Thanks
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Lunasix on January 09, 2014, 05:02:28 pm
Apparently, the software found here RigolBildschirmkopieLAN seems to not work anymore after update. DSA change state to remote, but nothing happen.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: hammy on January 09, 2014, 07:59:00 pm
I had made the update from v1.07 to v1.08 without problems. The license keys stay valid.  :-+
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: jstarr on January 11, 2014, 06:07:33 am
When generating keys with the 1.03c keygen do I use the "official" or timed first letter (of the 4 letter) option?
tia
john
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: hammy on January 11, 2014, 02:22:13 pm
When generating keys with the 1.03c keygen do I use the "official" or timed first letter (of the 4 letter) option?

If you want keys for a limited time period you can use S = trial.
If the keys should be valid forever you can use A = official.

You can also use this website http://riglol.3owl.com (http://riglol.3owl.com)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: EMC on January 15, 2014, 05:59:25 am
Would you mind providing comment on any improvements.   Any noticable change in the functions mentioned in the above change list?  Is communications in particular stable & reliable? Thanks.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: stormbr on January 18, 2014, 07:26:22 pm
How to do for generate a signal of 200mhz in output of dsa815tg ?

I wanna test my oscilloscope (ds2072-hw2.0@300mhz).

Thanks
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Rory on January 18, 2014, 07:50:08 pm
Zero span.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: stormbr on January 18, 2014, 07:58:47 pm
Sorry, i'm a newbie with spectrum analyser, but can you explain detailed this for me ?

I'm use a adapter type n to bnc connected over "gen output" of dsa815tg and with ch1 of ds2072.

I press the button: span and option, span zero, digit the frequency with 200mhz, but nothing happens.

 :palm:



Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Rory on January 18, 2014, 08:05:53 pm
Enable the tracking generator.  TG button lit, menu selection TG ON.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: stormbr on January 18, 2014, 08:21:00 pm
Right now, the oscilloscope measured a signal/noise with 250mhz.

But i can't change the frequency to 50 mhz, for example.

Thanks a lot.

Edit:

Not have problem to change the frequency using the "freq" button and your menu.

The oscilloscope show me a perfect senoidal wave with 200mhz and 1.5ns of rise time.



Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: fqahmad66 on April 02, 2014, 11:43:01 am
Hi,

I read it in mikrocontroller.net. when pressed in order..

TRACE> TG> MARKER FCTN> MEAS SETUP> SYSTEM> PRINT SETUP> STORAGE

a hidden item 'ph noise opt' is unabled in system menu. Somebody played with it?

Regards
F
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: mrflibble on April 02, 2014, 12:11:08 pm
I read it in mikrocontroller.net. when pressed in order..

TRACE> TG> MARKER FCTN> MEAS SETUP> SYSTEM> PRINT SETUP> STORAGE

a hidden item 'ph noise opt' is unabled in system menu. Somebody played with it?

Assuming you mean this post: http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/323002 (http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/323002)

I just tested it, and after pressing the magic button sequence I cannot find any new entries in the System menu. That's with firmware 00.0.1.08.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Rory on April 02, 2014, 02:21:41 pm
I read it in mikrocontroller.net. when pressed in order..

TRACE> TG> MARKER FCTN> MEAS SETUP> SYSTEM> PRINT SETUP> STORAGE

a hidden item 'ph noise opt' is unabled in system menu. Somebody played with it?

Assuming you mean this post: http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/323002 (http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/323002)

I just tested it, and after pressing the magic button sequence I cannot find any new entries in the System menu. That's with firmware 00.0.1.08.

00.0.1.08 also. Worked for me. A message briefly popped up "Welcome to Maintenance Mode" and there are additional items in the System menu.

The Ph Noise Opt item was enabled on my unit.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: mrflibble on April 02, 2014, 02:58:46 pm
00.0.1.08 also. Worked for me. A message briefly popped up "Welcome to Maintenance Mode" and there are additional items in the System menu.

The Ph Noise Opt item was enabled on my unit.
Redid it, and it indeed works. I'm pretty sure I pressed "Meas" instead of "Meas Setup" in my previous attempts. In addition to the Ph Noise Thingy there's also some logging and calibration info like Ref DAC, Cal DAC and LO DAC.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Lunasix on April 02, 2014, 03:02:45 pm
Ok for me also.
After the special sequence (touch in x arrangement) :
System -> Service -> Signal Ctrl Ph Noise Opt, and is on by default.

I have a problem, possibly simple or already explained in the post : if I save a setup, and if I recall it after, trace is in "freeze" mode (indicated at left of screen), and if I go in menu "Trace/PF", the "Trace Type" button is in "freeze" state but it's impossible to change it (light gray).
The setup is for EMC test with pass/fail selected (same as described by Dave). More simple setup is in freeze state after recall, but it is possible to change "Trace type" in "Clear Write" for example.

Only solution is then to restart DSA or press "preset" button and redo same setup, but with button. Sure it's simple !

Any idea ?

Edit : found solution. Switch Pass/Fail in "off", then set "Trace type" to "Clear Write" and then set "Pass/Fail" to "on".
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: mrflibble on April 02, 2014, 03:27:38 pm
Ok for me also.
After the special sequence (touch in x arrangement) :
System -> Service -> Signal Ctrl Ph Noise Opt, and is on by default.

I have a problem, possibly simple or already explained in the post : if I save a setup, and if I recall it after, trace is in "freeze" mode (indicated at left of screen), and if I go in menu "Trace/PF", the "Trace Type" button is in "freeze" state but it's impossible to change it (light gray).
The setup is for EMC test with pass/fail selected (same as described by Dave). More simple setup is in freeze state after recall, but it is possible to change "Trace type" in "Clear Write" for example.

Only solution is then to restart DSA or press "preset" button and redo same setup, but with button. Sure it's simple !

Any idea ?

Edit : found solution. Switch Pass/Fail in "off", then set "Trace type" to "Clear Write" and then set "Pass/Fail" to "on".  :palm:
And the real solution is that trace state is saved in a State file apparently. I just saved a Setup with 3 traces in it. Two of those frozen (reference traces) and the 3rd running (Clear Write). When I save that Setup, then power cycle + recall that setup, I get the situation you describe. All traces frozen. However if I also save the State before power cycling, and then recall both the Setup & the State then I get back the original situation. With correct measurement setups and the correct traces running.

This must be the Chinese developer version of "Setup" that I was not previously aware of. Personally I would have liked the trace run state at the time of Save Setup also to be part of that saved setup... But oh well, recall Setup & State gets the job done.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: EMC on April 04, 2014, 09:14:22 am
Guys,

Works on mine too.  I was keen to turn it off so I tried a variety of button press patterns.   The only thing I have found is that if the above pattern is moved up one row you get a message "protected command".   Has anyone explored this and found anything?

Steve
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: johnny_canuck on April 05, 2014, 01:42:19 pm
In the Maintenance Mode, the Ref DAC value tweaks the 10 MHz internal clock frequency. There was a Rigol service note about it (since withdrawn from their web site) dated Jan. 30, 2013. I've posted the service note in the Files section of the Yahoo! All Rigol Products group.
I don't have any information about how to use the other DAC functions.

Ken
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: mrflibble on April 05, 2014, 01:44:57 pm
In the Maintenance Mode, the Ref DAC value tweaks the 10 MHz internal clock frequency. There was a Rigol service note about it (since withdrawn from their web site) dated Jan. 30, 2013. I've posted the service note in the Files section of the Yahoo! All Rigol Products group.
Sounds interesting. :) Do you happen to have a direct link to that document?

Also, thanks for the reference to that yahoo group. Didn't know that one yet. Seems to have some interesting tid bits...
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: johnny_canuck on April 05, 2014, 07:07:16 pm
"Sounds interesting. :) Do you happen to have a direct link to that document?"

Sorry, but I didn't save the original.

Ken
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Sparky on April 05, 2014, 07:55:40 pm
In the Maintenance Mode, the Ref DAC value tweaks the 10 MHz internal clock frequency. There was a Rigol service note about it (since withdrawn from their web site) dated Jan. 30, 2013. I've posted the service note in the Files section of the Yahoo! All Rigol Products group.

I've attached it here for quick reference, for those without Yahoo Groups account.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: mrflibble on April 05, 2014, 08:40:04 pm
I've attached it here for quick reference, for those without Yahoo Groups account.
Thanks! :)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: nicusorflorinel on April 10, 2014, 05:30:41 pm
Question:i want to buy rigol dsa815 ...the DSA815 Tracking-Gen  is a Hardware Option, or just a Software Option?iI can now get licence codes to enable TG or the only option is to buy the rigol DSA815-TG...Thank you
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: mrflibble on April 10, 2014, 05:45:38 pm
AFAIK it's a hardware option.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: nicusorflorinel on April 10, 2014, 05:49:50 pm
rigol dsa815 have  only 1 N-connector  in front side ?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: mrflibble on April 10, 2014, 06:23:04 pm
Yup. Check the many youtube vids out there.

I haven't seen a side by side comparison of the PCB for the DSA815 vs DSA815-TG, that would be interesting.

On the software side I am confident you can plonk in the missing license for the TG functionality on a regular DSA815. But if the hardware is missing (as in more than just the N connector) then I doubt it makes monetary sense to try to kludge that on.

Translation: unless you can find a known to work plan to go from  DSA815 to DSA815-TG I would get the -TG. I went through the same thing, and I decided to get the -TG.

And you really do want the tracking generator, it's damn handy. Measuring filters is almost too easy now. ;) It also works fairly well as a standalone frequency generator. Just set TG center frequency, set span to zero and there you go, stable sine at your frequency of interest.

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: nicusorflorinel on April 10, 2014, 06:39:34 pm
thanks...
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: KD0RC on April 11, 2014, 12:23:06 am
Question:i want to buy rigol dsa815 ...the DSA815 Tracking-Gen  is a Hardware Option, or just a Software Option?iI can now get licence codes to enable TG or the only option is to buy the rigol DSA815-TG...Thank you
The tracking generator option is not upgradeable - if you buy it without, you are stuck with it that way.  The cost of the TG (about $200 USD) is such that it really does not make sense to buy it without, given the utility it provides.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Orange on May 30, 2014, 07:33:43 am
Quote from the 1.09 release notes:

Version?00.01.09.00.07   Date?2014-05-22
1.      Solve the problem option to be cracked.   M
2.      Compatible hardware version V05.   M
3.      Solve the problem continuous external trigger timing was not right.   M
4.      Solve the problem different version of the data can not be loaded.   M
5.      Solve the problem U disk copy file size more than 6 bytes.   M
6.      Increased Trace Avg Reset function.   E
7.      Increase the accuracy of the calibration function.   E
8.      Solve the problem Marker Table display error.   M
9.      Solve the problem with GPIB card boot, does not match the address to identify the address settings.   M
10.      Completely solution to the problem LXI communication is unstable.   M
11.      Solve the problem read trace data lead to crashes.   M
12.      Solve the problem spelling mistake, Change ‘???’ to ‘???’.   M
13.      Solve the problem after the upgrade from version 00.01.07 to 00.01.09 lead to the type of language from Chinese to English.   M
14.      Solve the problem since the calibration display line value becomes 0dBm.   M


Almost everything is in Chinese in this doc....
Do I want to do this update ?, NO
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Wall-E on May 30, 2014, 03:50:34 pm
DSA815 FW 00.01.09 is available here:  http://cdn1.actonsoftware.com/acton/cdna/1579/f-04ee/0/2 (http://cdn1.actonsoftware.com/acton/cdna/1579/f-04ee/0/2)
Instructions:  http://cdn1.actonsoftware.com/acton/cdna/1579/f-0312/0/0 (http://cdn1.actonsoftware.com/acton/cdna/1579/f-0312/0/0)

Note: I have had several tell me that this new FW is working fine and that all installed options were retained.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Zucca on May 30, 2014, 04:16:48 pm
Will the upgrade to 1.09 wipe out all our Rigolol activated options?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Zucca on May 30, 2014, 05:51:47 pm
What a brave men! Thanks a lot!  >:D

UPDATE 31 May 2014: Before the upgrade under the column "Option Type" there were no texts, after I got the text "Official" as posted by PeDre before.  :clap:
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: KD0RC on May 31, 2014, 06:28:00 pm
The update worked perfectly for me as well.  My options stayed in place, so now I am 'Offical' too...

I would be interested to know what 'Solve the problem option to be cracked.' means.  My first impression was that they meant 'hacked' instead of 'cracked'.  But since it kept all options (including 10Hz RBW), maybe they meant 'broken' as in the text came out blank on the Option Info screen and is now (mostly) fixed. 

Chenglish to read hard is so as understand to not so much.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: georges80 on May 31, 2014, 07:41:24 pm
Upgraded as well, no problems and all licenses remain intact & functional. :-+

cheers,
george.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: mrflibble on May 31, 2014, 10:14:47 pm
Apart from "no loss of installed options", any noticable improvements? I think I'd rather hear it from the people here than the randomized Chinglish release notes.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Boatanchor on May 31, 2014, 10:32:17 pm
If the 815 has been 'unlocked' prior to the new firmware being installed, there is obviously no way for the software to check if the old keys are legit or not.

However, I wouldn't mind betting that if you applied this latest firmware to a brand new unit or purchased a new 815 with this firmware already installed and then tried to do your magic on it, it probably wouldn't work  ;)

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: KD0RC on June 01, 2014, 02:29:31 pm
Apart from "no loss of installed options", any noticable improvements? I think I'd rather hear it from the people here than the randomized Chinglish release notes.

I checked out the usual things that I do with it (antenna and feedline characteristics, Ham Radio transmitter performance) and did not notice anything.  My less than demanding use of the gear would not lead me to notice much...   I did try my trick for checking frequency calibration by looking at WWV directly, and the last calibration that I did a month or so ago is still there and I seem to be within a Hz or so of dead on. 

So far for me, all is well.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Tom D on June 01, 2014, 09:53:55 pm
My update to this 00.01.09 version of the firmware didn't work. After updating, then powering off and powering up again, the analyzer hangs at the Rigol Device Initializing screen with the Auto and TG buttons illuminated and going no further, even after 30 minutes. I tried downloading the file several times in case I had a corrupted download. Three separate attempts to update the firmware with this file have all failed with the aforementioned hanging up at initialization. :-//

Each time I've had to revert back to firmware version 00.01.08 by booting off the USB stick by pressing the Preset button after powering the unit up, just to make the unit operational again.

The details of my unit are as follows:

Model: DSA815
Serial Number: DSA8A14360XXXX
Version of Main Board: 00.04
Version of Radio Frequency Board FPGA: 00.05
Version of Digital Board FPGA: 00.04
Version of Firmware: 00.01.08
Version of Boot: 00.01.02
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: eurofox on June 01, 2014, 09:57:50 pm
My update was successful, all options valid  :-+.

eurofox
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Zucca on June 01, 2014, 09:59:27 pm
I´m sorry for you Tom D, did you hack the options in the FW 1.08?

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Tom D on June 01, 2014, 10:10:53 pm
Zucca,

I installed the options when it had the original firmware, which I believe was version 00.01.05 when I bought it.

Tom 
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Tom D on June 02, 2014, 06:53:58 am
9a4wy,

Yes, I have re-flashed it back to v00.01.08 by booting off the USB stick. Everything seems to be working fine with this firmware version and all of the options are still active.

Tom
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Tom D on June 02, 2014, 01:38:16 pm
So...you wrote inside DSA again FW 01.08...you don't need every time boot it from USB, right??

K

That's correct, I was able to restore firmware version 00.01.08 by booting from USB and writing this file to the analyzer.

Tom
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: tkline98 on June 02, 2014, 04:30:53 pm
Tom D,

The release note says "Compatible hardware version V05" and it looks like you have V04.   

"Version of Main Board: 00.04"


Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: georges80 on June 02, 2014, 06:06:56 pm
Tom D,

The release note says "Compatible hardware version V05" and it looks like you have V04.   

"Version of Main Board: 00.04"

My main board version is 00.04 and my digital board fpga is 00.04 and the firmware update to 1.09 worked perfectly first attempt. Mine was bought new earlier this year. My radio freq board fpga version is 00.05 (maybe they are referring to that).

cheers,
george.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Tom D on June 03, 2014, 08:49:24 pm
Thank you for your responses. I've had no luck at all trying to update this machine to v00.01.09. I initially read the "Compatible hardware version V05" in the release document thinking that the "M" for "Modification" may have been a modification to accommodate a possible later board revision in addition to previous versions of the Main Board.

I'm wondering whether I may have a faulty cell in the flash chip in the analyzer, as the new firmware file is slightly larger than the previous version. Other than that, I'm at a loss as to explain why mine won't work. I've tried four different USB sticks ranging from 4 to 16 GB, experiencing the same hang-up at boot with v00.01.09, yet all of the USB sticks will work with firmware v00.01.08, whether I boot from them to install this firmware, or re-install v00.01.08 via the operating system of the analyzer. It looks like I'm stuck with version 00.01.08.

Tom
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: georges80 on June 03, 2014, 10:39:04 pm
So I just asked a couple of guys at work to 'human' translate the first line of the 1.09 changelog and it states that a change has been made to prevent hacking. Thus it appears that this version (if the unit already hasn't been riglol'ed) may likely be a scheme to prevent riglol generated licenses being installed.

Presumably new units that ship with 1.09 may be riglol 'proof' - will have to see what happens with new shipped units with the new firmware hit the street... Presumably a downgrade to 1.08 would allow for riglol to work and then upgrade back to 1.09.

Anyhow, just a possible scenario for future owners/purchasers to be aware of.

cheers,
george.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Orange on June 04, 2014, 07:32:37 am
So I just asked a couple of guys at work to 'human' translate the first line of the 1.09 changelog and it states that a change has been made to prevent hacking. Thus it appears that this version (if the unit already hasn't been riglol'ed) may likely be a scheme to prevent riglol generated licenses being installed.

Presumably new units that ship with 1.09 may be riglol 'proof' - will have to see what happens with new shipped units with the new firmware hit the street... Presumably a downgrade to 1.08 would allow for riglol to work and then upgrade back to 1.09.

Anyhow, just a possible scenario for future owners/purchasers to be aware of.

cheers,
george.
It is very well possible that also a new boot loader is put on the new units that prevent loading FW 1.08 (or older versions).
It is already impossible to load the 1.08 firmware to a 1.09 machine using the described method of the STORAGE button.
Using the PRESET button at start-up to load the 1.08  is still possible with the 1.02 boot loader.

So if you want to have a fully loaded analyser you need to be quick. I personally like the 10Hz RBW option. And would have paid for this, if it was not hackable....
Unfortunate, the 10Hz RBW is not offered by RIGOL
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Boatanchor on June 04, 2014, 12:49:26 pm
And suddenly Rigol discovered that sales of their once popular entry model SA plummeted almost overnight  :scared:



Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: navzptc on June 11, 2014, 01:46:29 pm
Does anyone know how to uninstall installed options from this unit??

Looks like mine may have to go back for repair - States it has lost the TG configuration on start up :( so want to get it back to standard!!

Any help much appreciated especially if anyone knows how to cure this!
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Alexeev on June 12, 2014, 09:38:54 am
Hello,

at the first sorry if this is not the appropriate place to place my question.

 My problem is I need to send to a trace a specific curve which I make in the PC. I want to place a limits for EMC, but I dislike the option which has the 815, because you lost a lot of screen when you use the P/F test, so I want to use the Trace 2 for example as freeze, to have this limit always in the full screen. It is possible to send a specific trace to the 815 using some software? I have tried to use the Ultra Spectrum, but it is not possible to do it.

Thanks in advance!

Regards
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on June 21, 2014, 11:50:11 am
See the new Rigol DSA800 Series 3.2GHz and 7.5GHz Spectrum Analyzers here:
http://www.rigolna.com/products/spectrum-analyzers/dsa800/ (http://www.rigolna.com/products/spectrum-analyzers/dsa800/)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on June 21, 2014, 07:38:23 pm
It's doubtful that many, if any here will consider a 4x to 6x price increase.  :(
Title: Ultraspectrum trial period enhancement for Rigol DSA815
Post by: Pinkus on June 26, 2014, 09:36:28 am
Has anybody found a solution to enhance/remove the trial period of Ultra Spectrum?
I have not tried it yet, but I read in an older post, that just running it with a set-date-back-tool such as RunAsDate will not work.
I would like to use the waterfall function as it is helpful to get better a view on a frequency area over a longer time period.
Does anybody have an idea how to get the waterfall view on data without paying $260 for the software?

Thanks for your help!!
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Pinkus on June 27, 2014, 07:50:37 am
Thank you  :clap:
I will try.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Orange on June 27, 2014, 08:59:17 am
http://peter.dreisiebner.at/rigol-bildschirmkopie-lan/ (http://peter.dreisiebner.at/rigol-bildschirmkopie-lan/)
http://peter.dreisiebner.at/rigol-bildschirmkopie-lan/screenshots.htm (http://peter.dreisiebner.at/rigol-bildschirmkopie-lan/screenshots.htm)

:-)
Nice application, clean and portable, no need to load drivers if you want to use it via LAN. Also the direct SCPI command modus is handy.

As a suggestion I would like to see that the program can also save in JPEG format.....
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on June 27, 2014, 01:48:22 pm
Now how about a script to run that key on a regular basis (every 14 days)?
I know it can be done on startup (or shutdown), but that is overkill.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Pinkus on June 27, 2014, 04:23:19 pm
Now how about a script to run that key on a regular basis (every 14 days)?
I know it can be done on startup (or shutdown), but that is overkill.
just use the scheduler which comes with Windows (taskschd.msc).
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on June 27, 2014, 04:38:23 pm
Never use it.
Can't a startup script be written to only act after a certain number of days that isn't another process running?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: mrflibble on June 27, 2014, 05:02:04 pm
Disclaimer up front: could be useful, could be shit. Never used it, probably never will. ;)

I just googled for a windoze alternative to anacron, and this one looks reasonable: http://www.nncron.ru/ (http://www.nncron.ru/)

Plonk in your favorite batch script to tweak your registry entries and you're good to go. Or not.  ;D
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Pinkus on June 28, 2014, 02:37:38 pm
@PeDre
Hello Peter - I have spotted that the waterfall modus is not implemented in latest download - is it possible to make the older download available again that had this waterfall modus for the DSA series ?
Thank you !
gazelle
+1
Ahhh, I was almost certain that waterfall was in Peters software, but as I never used it before I thought my
memory failed me when I could not find it anymore.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: theatrus on June 29, 2014, 06:18:04 am

Never use it.
Can't a startup script be written to only act after a certain number of days that isn't another process running?

That's exactly what the Windows scheduler is for. It's not worth optimizing for a single clearing of registry keys every 15 days.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: swperk on July 04, 2014, 03:57:56 pm
I just updated mine from 1.08 to 1.09. The upgrade went quickly and without a hitch, and all the options remain intact.

Model: DSA815
Serial Number: DSA8A1536XXXXX
Version of Main Board: 00.04
Version of Radio Frequency Board FPGA: 00.05
Version of Digital Board FPGA: 00.04
Version of Firmware: 00.01.09
Version of Boot: 00.01.03
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on July 04, 2014, 04:40:33 pm
Quote
That's exactly what the Windows scheduler is for. It's not worth optimizing for a single clearing of registry keys every 15 days.
Who said anything about "optimizing"??

swperk:
Any idea what was changed or fixed?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: sv1dpp on July 04, 2014, 07:23:46 pm
Hi all,
after firmware update to 1.09, the device did not BOOT displaying the message LDR failed boot error.....So I had to revert to the previous FW 1.08 booting from a USB flash disk to return the device in normal contition. Maybe the new FW 1.09 has something wrong.
Regards
Spiros
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: sv1dpp on July 04, 2014, 07:37:40 pm
Hi again,
after 3 attempts the upgrade is OK to 1.09. The USB flash was wrong.
regards
Spiros
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Velund on July 23, 2014, 11:20:32 pm
Hm...

Does anyone know a safe way to save a backup copy of cal. memory to a file?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: 9a4wy on July 29, 2014, 11:57:22 am
Does anyone know how to restore Lost TG Calibration Data, or the procedure for for TG Calibration?
This is the result of Error 470/471, Calibration Memory Lost.
Any thoughts or assistance would be greatly appreciated.

   Thank you in advance for any information.
how did you enter into this problem ??
please explain...tnx
K
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on July 29, 2014, 08:35:18 pm
Here is the answer to my question about obtaining a service manual from Rigol. Is anyone aware of this situation??
Quote
Hi Bruce,
Our repair process for spectrum analyzers is in the midst of some changes. Currently repair is done overseas back at he factory. This can extend lead times to 12 weeks or more. We hope to establish domestic repair soon but wont have more detail for another month or so. It's not so much that the repair is complicated it's the calibration. So currently there are three options:

1) We can repair the scope for $250 plus shipping.
2) We can sell you a demo/refurb unit.
3) We can provide a discount on a new purchase.

Best regards,
Steve Huss
Applications Engineer
-------------------------------------------------------------
To: Steve_Huss@rigoltech.com
Date: 07/26/2014 05:42AM
Subject: Re: Case # 00004641: Service manual

If that is the case. how is it repaired??

Bruce

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Fri, 25 Jul 2014 18:32:24 -0400, <Steve_Huss@rigoltech.com> wrote:

Hi Bruce,
I think the short answer is we do not have a service manual available. At least I have not been able to track one down.

Best regards,
Steve Huss
Applications Engineer
Rigol Technologies
10200 SW Allen Blvd. Suite C
Beaverton, OR 970056
503-336-9102
---------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 07/13/2014 06:49A
Case #: 00004641
Subject: Service manual
Description: DSA1030A

Is a service manual available for this model (which is now out of warranty)?

Thanks,
Bruce
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: 9a4wy on July 30, 2014, 08:30:01 am
So I just asked a couple of guys at work to 'human' translate the first line of the 1.09 changelog and it states that a change has been made to prevent hacking. Thus it appears that this version (if the unit already hasn't been riglol'ed) may likely be a scheme to prevent riglol generated licenses being installed.

Presumably new units that ship with 1.09 may be riglol 'proof' - will have to see what happens with new shipped units with the new firmware hit the street... Presumably a downgrade to 1.08 would allow for riglol to work and then upgrade back to 1.09.

Anyhow, just a possible scenario for future owners/purchasers to be aware of.

cheers,
george.
It is very well possible that also a new boot loader is put on the new units that prevent loading FW 1.08 (or older versions).
It is already impossible to load the 1.08 firmware to a 1.09 machine using the described method of the STORAGE button.
Using the PRESET button at start-up to load the 1.08  is still possible with the 1.02 boot loader.

So if you want to have a fully loaded analyser you need to be quick. I personally like the 10Hz RBW option. And would have paid for this, if it was not hackable....
Unfortunate, the 10Hz RBW is not offered by RIGOL

Did you see TG option dissapears with "downgrade" to 01.08??
posibly then install keys and then reflash it back to 01.09 but what will happen with TG option??I did'n want to do that ::)
K
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on July 30, 2014, 10:07:39 am
Quote
Note also that Rigol told us how to get into the Service/Maintenance Mode to Calibrate the DSA's internal 10 MHz Frequency Standard (with a PDF document).
So would you like to provide a link or a copy of this service literature for everyone that would like one??  :-//
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on July 30, 2014, 09:33:59 pm
It shows as a .pdf, but it downloads as a .zip that 7Zip can't open.

How about just a .pdf file?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: eurofox on July 30, 2014, 09:39:20 pm
It shows as a .pdf, but it downloads as a .zip that 7Zip can't open.

How about just a .pdf file?

Just click and you download a pdf not a zip  |O
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: mrflibble on July 30, 2014, 09:46:19 pm
It shows as a .pdf, but it downloads as a .zip that 7Zip can't open.

How about just a .pdf file?
Oh alright ... *clickey*

Yup, confirmed. The attachment posted by ted572 is a plain PDF file. And double confirmed, yup, it's the known rigol document on adjusting the 10 Mhz osc.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on July 31, 2014, 02:21:23 am
Well, it downloads as a .zip. The extension is getting changed.

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: miguelvp on July 31, 2014, 02:47:16 am
It's you, I get the pdf file here as well.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: georges80 on July 31, 2014, 02:47:37 am
Well, it downloads as a .zip. The extension is getting changed.

Well, it downloads as a PDF and displays as a PDF for me on my win 7 laptop.

I'd suggest something is not configured correctly on your system.

cheers,
george.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: mrflibble on July 31, 2014, 03:43:36 am
I'd suggest something is not configured correctly on your system.
Indeed. It might be something like a recently installed 7zip thingy that feels so important that it has hijacked all mime types and file extensions. Not sure though. :-//
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on July 31, 2014, 04:13:43 pm
The extension on the downloaded file (as shown in the attachemnt) is .zip, NOT .pdf
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: HighVoltage on July 31, 2014, 04:23:46 pm
The file shows AND downloads to me as a .pdf file and Acrobat reader opens it automatically after download.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: mrflibble on July 31, 2014, 04:39:41 pm
The extension on the downloaded file (as shown in the attachemnt) is .zip, NOT .pdf
Nope. HTTP headers don't lie, random windoze installs do. ;)

Relevant parts of http header when downloading that attachement:
Code: [Select]
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
...
Content-Type: application/octet-stream
...
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename*=UTF-8''DSA815%2010Hz%20Clock%20Frequency%20Adjustment%20.pdf
...

Mmmh, seeing that header, it could also be you are using internet explorer XYZ or something. Mickeysoft is famous for having their own ideas on how to interpret standards. Anyways, I would expect right-click: save as ... whatever.pdf to work properly in such a case.  :-//
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on July 31, 2014, 04:49:35 pm
I don't use Idiot Exploiter. I have used Opera almost from around 2000.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: eurofox on July 31, 2014, 04:57:56 pm
I don't use Idiot Exploiter. I have used Opera almost from around 2000.

Maybe an nsa or ru virus in your computer  :-DD :-DD :-DD
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on September 13, 2014, 09:51:38 pm
DSA815 Service Guide:  http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/attachment/1579/f-04c5/1/-/-/-/-/DSA800%20Service%20Manual.pdf (http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/attachment/1579/f-04c5/1/-/-/-/-/DSA800%20Service%20Manual.pdf)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on September 13, 2014, 10:17:33 pm
ted572;
Thanks for the Guide. (Much nicer if it was a full Service Manual  :( )

.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on September 13, 2014, 11:26:40 pm
Attached is the 'DSA815 10MHz Clock Frequency (Freq. Std.) Adjustment' Guide:
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on September 14, 2014, 11:51:37 am
How did you come across this "Guide" for the 815? is there one for the 1030(A)?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on September 14, 2014, 05:02:24 pm
How did you come across this "Guide" for the 815? is there one for the 1030(A)?
No there is not a Service Guide for the DSA1030A (etc series), although there is a Performance Verification Guide at >  http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/attachment/1579/f-048e/1/-/-/-/-/DSA1030%20DSA1030A%20Performance%20Verification%20Guide.pdf (http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/attachment/1579/f-048e/1/-/-/-/-/DSA1030%20DSA1030A%20Performance%20Verification%20Guide.pdf)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on September 14, 2014, 05:12:06 pm
A new Rigol 2014 DSA800 Performance Verification Guide is attached:
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: georges80 on September 14, 2014, 05:26:13 pm
A new Rigol 2014 DSA800 Performance Verification Guide is attached:

Amusing that all the calibration/verification test equipment they quote is agilent... and it would cost >>$10k :)

cheers,
george.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on September 15, 2014, 01:36:37 am
    CAUTION!  For Anyone Planning To Adjust The 'DSA815-TG 10MHz Clock (Freq. Std.) Frequency'

See the attached 'DS815-TG Calibration Menu .jpg' showing the > Maintenance, Service, Calibration menu

You have been alerted to the potential Hazard !!!    Please use CAUTION. . .     This is a vulnerable TRAP.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on September 15, 2014, 02:00:05 am
Installing DSA815 Options on units with Firmware 00.01.09.00.07 and Boot Loader version 00.01.03.
Note: It will NOT work for new Rigol production units with Firmware 00.01.09 and Boot Loader version 00.01.04.

 ***  Booting a Rigol DSA815 using a USB Drive (FAT32, without other files, or any directory) just a previous Firmware file in its root directory  ***
                                          For use when installing Rigol Options, etc that would not work/install with a newer Firmware.

This is how to re-load a previous version of Firmware when you can NOT install it per Rigol's Firmware Installation Procedure.

Inset a USB Drive in a DSA815 (that is known to function properly with the instrument) with a previous Firmware in the root directory.

When you first power up the instrument, a message should pop up in the lower left corner of the screen that says "Press 'Preset' (green button) to boot from U disk!".  With the USB Flash drive installed, press the Green Preset button 3-4 times right after you Power ON the DSA815.  With a USB Drive with nothing on it except for a firmware 'DSA800_UpdateFile.sys' file (in the Root Directory), the machine starts writing the file to itself while indicating its progress.  After it finishes this write process, it continues on with its Boot sequence.

Then to insure that the Firmware installation has completed fully, repeat using the Rigol Firmware Installation Procedure.
 
When you are done with any required modification such as installing Rigol Options, etc. (that would not work before with the newer Firmware), you can reinstall the newer Firmware using the Rigol Firmware Installation Procedure.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: thorswait on September 15, 2014, 02:43:24 am
Hi everyone, I'd just try booting from a previous version I recently bought a DSA815 with the 00.01.09 firmware version and with the version of boot 00.01.04 and it didn't work to get back to previous version 00.01.08, 00.01.07 and 00.01.06  I try several times each and I always get the message : Failed ...(UpdateFile Error!) I would like to try other firmware version if anyone could provide me with previous .sys  file.

Thanks
Regards,
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Orange on September 15, 2014, 09:09:37 am
Hi everyone, I'd just try booting from a previous version I recently bought a DSA815 with the 00.01.09 firmware version and with the version of boot 00.01.04 and it didn't work to get back to previous version 00.01.08, 00.01.07 and 00.01.06  I try several times each and I always get the message : Failed ...(UpdateFile Error!) I would like to try other firmware version if anyone could provide me with previous .sys  file.

Thanks
Regards,
Did you use the preset button procedure form above?

If that still fails, you can try to use another USB stick. Use a low storage capacity type like 1GByte or so.

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: thorswait on September 15, 2014, 05:55:34 pm
Hi Orange,

Yes I use the preset Button then push it three times as mention in the procedure below, but I use a 2Gb USB key ... I'll try with a 1Gb tonight (if I can find it). But  I doubt it would solve the problem because I'll already add success with this 2Gb key using the firmware on the is the 00.01.09.007 ... Anyway I'll give it a try tonight and let you know if anything changes.

Thanks for the reply,
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on September 15, 2014, 08:57:45 pm
Hi Orange,

Yes I use the preset Button then push it three times as mention in the procedure below, but I use a 2Gb USB key ... I'll try with a 1Gb tonight (if I can find it). But  I doubt it would solve the problem because I'll already add success with this 2Gb key using the firmware on the is the 00.01.09.007 ... Anyway I'll give it a try tonight and let you know if anything changes.

Thanks for the reply,

Are you using a empty USB drive with FAT32 format, no other files on it except the (one) firmware (.sys) file, and no directories (folders) on it at all.  You can use FW .06 or earlier for sure, although I think .07 and .08 also work.  I don't think it is the size of you USB Flash Drive.  The size was more important a couple of years ago.  I use SanDisk Cruzer Glide 8GB USB Flash Drives.  Please check the items I listed in the first sentence, which are critical using the Boot Method, and not so much using Rigol FW Install Method.  By the way a USB Flash Drive that works in one Rigol instrument may NOT necessarily work in a different Rigol device type.

This has worked for lots of people that installed .09 (and Boot Loader .03) and then wanted to drop back to a previous version to add Options, fix something, etc.   Did you receive this from the factory with FW .09 and Boot Loader .04 (Won't Work for this), or did you have an earlier version installed previously (Should Work Fine)?

       Good Luck and don't give up yet.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: thorswait on September 16, 2014, 10:26:03 am
Hello ted572,

I confirm that the USB Key size (1Gb, 2Gb,4Gb even 8Gb) doesn't matter, also the format FAT or FAT32 both works if I use the firwmare 00.01.09.07 but it's not working with my unit to downgrade to firmware 00.01.06,00.01.07 or 00.01.08. The unit I buy was already with the firmware version 00.01.09.07. But I think what matters here is more the bootloader version that doesn't allow to downgrade the system (for the moment !!!)

There's still some work to do here I won't give up ;)

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on September 16, 2014, 12:00:14 pm
Hello ted572,

I confirm that the USB Key size (1Gb, 2Gb,4Gb even 8Gb) doesn't matter, also the format FAT or FAT32 both works if I use the firwmare 00.01.09.07 but it's not working with my unit to downgrade to firmware 00.01.06,00.01.07 or 00.01.08. The unit I buy was already with the firmware version 00.01.09.07. But I think what matters here is more the bootloader version that doesn't allow to downgrade the system (for the moment !!!)

There's still some work to do here I won't give up ;)

Hello thorswait:

You are correct it is not working because of the new Boot Loader 00.01.04.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on September 18, 2014, 05:45:30 pm
The new Rigol 2014 'DSA800 Programming Guide PDF' is available here:

http://www.filedropper.com/dsa800programmingguidepdf (http://www.filedropper.com/dsa800programmingguidepdf)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: radiogeek97 on September 19, 2014, 04:56:47 pm
I understand why they did it but when Rigol wonders why the sales of the 815 Drop off dramatically well DUHHH   :rant:
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: HighVoltage on September 20, 2014, 08:49:18 am
I recently (August 2014) bought a new DSA815 TG that came with the 00.01.08 firmware version installed.
Then I applied the "option fix" and all options are activated and work well.


---------------
Quote from the 1.09 release notes:

Version?00.01.09.00.07   Date?2014-05-22
1.      Solve the problem option to be cracked.   M
2.      Compatible hardware version V05.   M
3.      Solve the problem continuous external trigger timing was not right.   M
4.      Solve the problem different version of the data can not be loaded.   M
5.      Solve the problem U disk copy file size more than 6 bytes.   M
6.      Increased Trace Avg Reset function.   E
7.      Increase the accuracy of the calibration function.   E
8.      Solve the problem Marker Table display error.   M
9.      Solve the problem with GPIB card boot, does not match the address to identify the address settings.   M
10.      Completely solution to the problem LXI communication is unstable.   M
11.      Solve the problem read trace data lead to crashes.   M
12.      Solve the problem spelling mistake, Change ‘???’ to ‘???’.   M
13.      Solve the problem after the upgrade from version 00.01.07 to 00.01.09 lead to the type of language from Chinese to English.   M
14.      Solve the problem since the calibration display line value becomes 0dBm.   M
----------------

My questions are:
Can I upgrade to firmware 00.01.09 without any problems ?
Or should I rather stay with v 00.01.08 since everything is working perfectly so far?
And what real world benefits can I expect to get from the upgrade to 00.01.09 ?
And most importantly, will the activated options stay activated with the upgrade to 00.01.09 ?

Thanks for any suggestions
 



Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: eurofox on September 20, 2014, 10:08:53 am
I recently (August 2014) bought a new DSA815 TG that came with the 00.01.08 firmware version installed.
Then I applied the "option fix" and all options are activated and work well.


---------------
Quote from the 1.09 release notes:

Version?00.01.09.00.07   Date?2014-05-22
1.      Solve the problem option to be cracked.   M
2.      Compatible hardware version V05.   M
3.      Solve the problem continuous external trigger timing was not right.   M
4.      Solve the problem different version of the data can not be loaded.   M
5.      Solve the problem U disk copy file size more than 6 bytes.   M
6.      Increased Trace Avg Reset function.   E
7.      Increase the accuracy of the calibration function.   E
8.      Solve the problem Marker Table display error.   M
9.      Solve the problem with GPIB card boot, does not match the address to identify the address settings.   M
10.      Completely solution to the problem LXI communication is unstable.   M
11.      Solve the problem read trace data lead to crashes.   M
12.      Solve the problem spelling mistake, Change ‘???’ to ‘???’.   M
13.      Solve the problem after the upgrade from version 00.01.07 to 00.01.09 lead to the type of language from Chinese to English.   M
14.      Solve the problem since the calibration display line value becomes 0dBm.   M
----------------

My questions are:
Can I upgrade to firmware 00.01.09 without any problems ?
Or should I rather stay with v 00.01.08 since everything is working perfectly so far?
And what real world benefits can I expect to get from the upgrade to 00.01.09 ?
And most importantly, will the activated options stay activated with the upgrade to 00.01.09 ?

Thanks for any suggestions

I did the upgrade from 1.08 with all options to 1.09 without problem and all options are working.  :-+
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on September 20, 2014, 12:45:57 pm
First, Firmware (FW) 00.01.09 does not allow installations of the Riglol Key-Generted Options.  You have to downgrade to a any previous FW to install the Options.

When we upgrade our DSA815 FW to 00.01.09.00.07 we have Boot Loader version 00.01.03. And upgrading to FW 00.01.09.00.07 is desirable with the improvements it provides, and Yes all of the Options will be retained.  Plus you can always downgrade the FR to reinstall the options, although it shouldn't be necessary.

Some users have returned there units to Rigol for repair and upon return found their Options removed, and with FR 00.01.09.007, but fortunately still with BOOT Loader 00.01.03.  So they were able to downgrade the FW to reinstall the Options, and then upgrade back to FR .00.01.09.   But please don't count on this capability in the future after a Rigol repair!   

The new factory DSA815s with FW 00.01.09 come with Boot Loader version 00.01.04:  FW 00.01.09 does NOT allow installation of the Options.  And Boot Loader 00.01.04 prevents down grading the Firmware (to 00.01.08 or lower) that would allow installation of the Options.

Therefore currently new DSA815 units with the newer FW 00.01.09 as received, will NOT accept the installation of the 'Riglol Key-Generated' Options.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: HighVoltage on September 20, 2014, 01:13:47 pm
Thank you both for the feedback, this gives me some confidence that I can upgrade to FW 00.01.09
I will let you know, how it went.

 
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on September 20, 2014, 01:20:03 pm
Thank you both for the feedback, this gives me some confidence that I can upgrade to FW 00.01.09
I will let you know, how it went.

Don't worry at all, it will be fine, and you will be very happy!
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: radiogeek97 on September 20, 2014, 08:14:31 pm
I wonder if the boot loader itself could be down graded
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: jstarr on September 21, 2014, 05:41:37 pm
[
Some users have returned there units to Rigol for repair and upon return found their Options removed, and with FR 00.01.09.007, but fortunately still with BOOT Loader 00.01.03.  So they were able to downgrade the FW to reinstall the Options, and then upgrade back to FR .00.01.09.   But please don't count on this capability in the future after a Rigol repair!   

Has anyone found a way to remove the options before returning to Rigol for service?  I heard Rigol USA is not honoring warranties when they find the "user-installed" options.

j
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Wall-E on September 21, 2014, 07:27:31 pm
Dear navzptc:

What is the solution to recovering the options after Rigol removes them in firmware .09?   
Will it work for those of us that receive a new DA815 with .09  ?   

   Thanks for info.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: navzptc on September 21, 2014, 07:30:44 pm
It won't help those who have got the latest boot loader, only people who have had their units tweaked by Rigol after repair :-(
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Wall-E on September 21, 2014, 07:43:41 pm
It won't help those who have got the latest boot loader, only people who have had their units tweaked by Rigol after repair :-(

Please, what is it we can do after it has been repaired?

Thanks for helping.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: HighVoltage on September 23, 2014, 07:39:05 pm
Thank you both for the feedback, this gives me some confidence that I can upgrade to FW 00.01.09
I will let you know, how it went.

Don't worry at all, it will be fine, and you will be very happy!

Well, I just installed the new firmware v. 00.01.09 and it works perfectly and all "options" stayed activated.
So, I want to say a big thank you to all involved, making this happen.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: fqahmad66 on September 24, 2014, 12:42:08 pm
 :P
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: radiogeek97 on September 26, 2014, 02:07:02 am
is there a way to tell from the sealed factory box to determine what firmware and bootloader are in a dsa815?  Probably by production date ?  if i contact a vendor i want to be abel to buy an "older" unit that does not have a locked bootloader.  Anybody have an idea on when the bootloader switch over took place ?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on September 26, 2014, 11:40:55 am
fqahmad66;
7-zip is unable to open that file. What type files are inside that? If they are only text and/or pdf, how about forgetting the zipping and just attach the files??
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on September 26, 2014, 01:09:46 pm
Why didn't you just attach those the way they are here??  :-//
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: mrflibble on September 26, 2014, 01:26:57 pm
@fqahmad66:
Thanks, stashed away for future reference. :)


7-zip is unable to open that file. What type files are inside that?
Plain pdf. No zip whatsoever. I vaguely recall another post where you were having a similar problem. The DSA815 10 MHz adjustment pdf I recall. If that wasn't you, my mistake. If that was you, then maybe possibly the problem might conceivably be at your end. You don't have to take my word for it, but best not blame the rest of the world for any future events involving pdf attachments and "7-zip says no workey".

The file is a pdf. The server says it's a pdf. The http header says it's a pdf. The filename makes it plausible it was a pdf when fqahmad66 attached it. Nothing suggests 7-zip being even remotely close. The only thing 7-zippy about it is seems to be happening on your computer. :-//
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on September 26, 2014, 04:19:07 pm
Why didn't you just attach those the way they are here??  :-//

videobruce:

If you haven't figured out a resolution for the PDF / ZIP problem yet, please try this:

Go to 'Control Panel' and select 'View by Small icons', then 'Default Programs', 'Associate a file type or protocols it can open'.
Change the file type '.pdf'  in the list from using ' 7-zip' to your installed 'PDF Reader' application.

   Good luck
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: HighVoltage on September 26, 2014, 10:19:55 pm
is there a way to tell from the sealed factory box to determine what firmware and bootloader are in a dsa815?  Probably by production date ?  if i contact a vendor i want to be abel to buy an "older" unit that does not have a locked bootloader.  Anybody have an idea on when the bootloader switch over took place ?
I don't think that you can tell by the box, at least not on the one that I got. May be starting at a certain serial number.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: radiogeek97 on September 28, 2014, 12:19:32 pm
No worries, I think I will hold off for now on the DSA 815, and see if this new bootloader issue can be solved, Some of the options like the VSWR, and EMI would be nice to have and once in a great while useful there is no way i can afford for a home hobbiest those options.  I just wish I was intelligent enough as some of the folks here so I could work on the problem and help everybody, rather than hoping for somebody else to cure the problem.  Thanks again all
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on September 30, 2014, 09:03:25 pm
Rigol DSA815 and DS2000 JTAG connections for the Olimex ARM-USB-OCD-H are provided in the attached PDF:
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: radiogeek97 on October 09, 2014, 11:37:07 am
just wondering if anybody has had any progress working on the LATEST DSA815 bootloader?  I will be getting mine soon and would be willing to help the cause if I can
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on November 07, 2014, 10:07:22 pm
Free EMI Test System Software for the DSA815 and other Rigol Spectrum Analyzers:

Rigol has a 'Free' EMI Software application package to run on your computer with it connected to the DSA815 (or other compatible Rigol DSA model) via USB or LAN (RJ45).  This is available by request at  http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/form/1579/0018:d-0001/1/index.htm (http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/form/1579/0018:d-0001/1/index.htm)    You have to request a software License (it is free) for your particular Rigol DSA's Serial Number.

For those people that want to have a Log display of Frequency (horizontal/X Axis), this program provides for selecting a Linear or Log Frequency display.  This capability is provided because a Log Frequency display is required for some of the EMI Test procedures. 

If you do NOT want to print from within the EMI application itself, you can use a screen capture app. such as 'Screen Capture + Print'
(Freeware available at ->  http://www.infonautics.ch/screencaptureprint/ (http://www.infonautics.ch/screencaptureprint/)).  You can Print, or Save a File (JPG, GIF, PNG, PNG BMP, or TIF) of the screen, or a portion of the screen that you want to retain.

EMI Test System Software DataSheet ->  http://www.batronix.com/pdf/Rigol/Datasheet/EMI_Test_System_DataSheet_EN.pdf (http://www.batronix.com/pdf/Rigol/Datasheet/EMI_Test_System_DataSheet_EN.pdf)
EMI Test System Software PC Manual ->  http://www.batronix.com/pdf/Rigol/UserGuide/EMI_Test_System_UserGuide_EN.pdf (http://www.batronix.com/pdf/Rigol/UserGuide/EMI_Test_System_UserGuide_EN.pdf)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Wall-E on December 30, 2014, 09:02:27 pm
The new DSA815 firmware 00.01.12.00.02 works well, retains all installed options, adds features, and fixes.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Tom D on December 31, 2014, 04:16:20 am
Some of you may remember that I was having trouble updating my DSA 815 from firmware version 1.08 to version 1.09, the unit hanging at the Rigol Device Initializing screen with the Auto and TG buttons illuminated, but going no further (read message Reply #304 in this thread).

Well, I just updated with v.00.01.12 and it worked perfectly with no drama at all.  Yippee!!!     :-+

All the best for the New Year, everyone.

Tom
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: fqahmad66 on December 31, 2014, 11:20:19 am
The new DSA815 firmware 00.01.12.00.02 works well, retains all installed options, adds features, and fixes.

Wall-E..can you share the features/fixes list?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Pinkus on December 31, 2014, 12:18:07 pm
The new DSA815 firmware 00.01.12.00.02 works well, retains all installed options, adds features, and fixes.

Wall-E..can you share the features/fixes list?
Here you go (one comment: I already had -30dBm on my TG before, not -20):

Change log : DSA800(DSP)Version Notes.doc
Version 00.01.12.00.02
Date 2014-11-10

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: avvidclif on December 31, 2014, 01:18:40 pm
Ok, I'll bite; What is the Sanitation Function??
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on December 31, 2014, 01:23:24 pm
^ Maybe it now washes dishes. ^

What is with the change in the TG??
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: fqahmad66 on December 31, 2014, 03:47:27 pm
  I figured it out....  :-DD 'Increase' is 'added'
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: hpux735 on December 31, 2014, 05:09:05 pm
Well, considering that 01.09 increases the TG attenuation to -30dBm, does anyone have a copy of 01.09? I'm still using 01.08 and mine only goes down to -20dBm.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on January 02, 2015, 02:24:03 am
Well, considering that 01.09 increases the TG attenuation to -30dBm, does anyone have a copy of 01.09? I'm still using 01.08 and mine only goes down to -20dBm.

hpux735:

Just so you know, there are plenty of us that had DSA815 FW 1.09 installed that never saw, or had a TG range of -30dBm to 0dBm available.  But, have always only seen -20dBm to 0dBm with the whole range of firmware versions.
 
Contention is that -30dBm to 0dBm can not be had on all of the hardware, etc, versions of the DA815, so therefore it has been assumed that Rigol limited the range to -20dBm to 0dBm so that all version of the DSA815 would be the same (consistent) for the TG output level range.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: hpux735 on January 02, 2015, 02:30:46 am
Well, considering that 01.09 increases the TG attenuation to -30dBm, does anyone have a copy of 01.09? I'm still using 01.08 and mine only goes down to -20dBm.

hpux735:

Just so you know, there are plenty of us that had DSA815 FW 1.09 installed that never saw, or had a TG range of -30dBm to 0dBm available.  But, have always only seen -20dBm to 0dBm with the whole range of firmware versions.
 
Contention is that -30dBm to 0dBm can not be had on all of the hardware, etc, versions of the DA815, so therefore it has been assumed that Rigol limited the range to -20dBm to 0dBm so that all version of the DSA815 would be the same (consistent) for the TG output level range.

Awesome, thanks for answering that so clearly.  I was so very confused! :)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: radiogeek97 on January 02, 2015, 08:57:57 pm
just bit the bullet and finally ordered a dsa815-tg for work free video scope and Awsome price under 1,400 Bravo T-equipment I love this vendor Quick shipping and Great Service and the  6%eevblog discount is terrific. 
   
I hope I have Luck with getting the unofficial upgrades to work, I took a chance  :-// Wish I could still have found an old stock machine with the old boot loader :(  Ill post some info when it arrives !!!   

Thanks to all those that have offered all their Genius, opinions and hard work for those of us that do not have the knowledge to open up and experiment, write code, debug ect.  I consider Myself a mid level user, but reading some of these posts on just what it entails to reverse engineer and develop the tools that you all have created and  share make me dizzy.  Reminds me of my first year of inorganic chemestry at university.

Thanks again to you to all  :clap:
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Howardlong on January 03, 2015, 12:42:19 am
For the avoidance of doubt, here are a couple of print screens from the same unit.

(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d123/photobucket391/k_zps00070c66.png) (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/photobucket391/media/k_zps00070c66.png.html)

(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d123/photobucket391/j_zpsf5d74f5a.png) (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/photobucket391/media/j_zpsf5d74f5a.png.html)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: KD0RC on January 03, 2015, 02:20:00 am
I think you got the magic unit!  Plus, your noise floor is 5 to 10dB better than mine, and does not have that annoying jump at 900MHz.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Howardlong on January 03, 2015, 11:11:05 am
Just to add, the TG default power level on the unit in question is -20dBm, I have to wind it down to -30dBm.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Tom D on January 03, 2015, 12:27:58 pm
A couple of days ago, out of curiosity, and feeling somewhat adventurous after imbibing copious amounts of amber liquid seeing in the New Year (yeah-yeah... I know - alcohol and test equipment don't mix), I decided to try and update (or more correctly, downgrade) my machine back to firmware v1.09 from v1.12. Firmware v1.09 was the firmware I was having trouble updating to from v1.08, months ago. There was no way back then that I could get v1.09 to run, I tried everything; multiple USB sticks of various sizes formatted with FAT, FAT32, many, many times - the machine just refused to boot after updating; it would hang with the TG and Auto buttons illluminated, but would not go any further. My unit has bootloader v1.02.

I initially considered sending my analyzer back for a warranty repair thinking there may have been a problem with it, but then decided against that and chose to stick with firmware version v1.08 until a newer firmware became available, which is the current v1.12.

Surprisingly, downgrading from v1.12, I was able to install v1.09 via the operating system of the analyzer (the Rigol update procedure) and it booted up without any problem at all; there was no hangup at boot with the TG and Auto buttons being illuminated, like there was when I was updating from v1.08 to v1.09, or updating to v1.09 from any one of the earlier firmware revisions I have (v1.06, v1.07, and v1.08). Whatever was preventing v1.09 from being installed properly was cleared after updating to v1.12.
 
The tracking generator only goes down to -20dbm on my unit with FW v1.09, (as it always had with all the previous versions of firmware including the original v1.05) unlike the -30dbm some others on the forum can have with v1.09. I suspect there's an anomaly or bug in the v1.09 firmware that affects certain hardware combinations allowing dropping of the TG output level to -30dbm on some machines, which is probably why Rigol addressed that in firmware v1.12. Anyway, I have again updated to the latest FW 1.12 without any problem. The "Version of Digital Board FPGA" was updated to 00.05 with firmware v1.12, whereas it became 00.04 when I downgraded to FW v1.09.

Tom
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: KD0RC on January 03, 2015, 02:48:43 pm
Just to add, the TG default power level on the unit in question is -20dBm, I have to wind it down to -30dBm.
So Howard, do you think it might be related to the key used when hacking the SA?  The DSA 832 and DSA 875 allow the value to go down to -30 and -40 dBm respectively, so it is likely available to the DSA 815 if we just knew how to hack it.

Len

EDIT: Both the 832 and 875 go down to -40dBm
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Howardlong on January 03, 2015, 04:53:54 pm
Just to add, the TG default power level on the unit in question is -20dBm, I have to wind it down to -30dBm.
So Howard, do you think it might be related to the key used when hacking the SA?  The DSA 832 and DSA 875 allow the value to go down to -30 and -40 dBm respectively, so it is likely available to the DSA 815 if we just knew how to hack it.

Len

EDIT: Both the 832 and 875 go down to -40dBm

The unit I'm familiar with is recent, and was shipped with a bootloader and firmware which doesn't work with the keys currently generated by Riglol etc.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Firetank on January 03, 2015, 07:52:46 pm
Hi all, this is my first post on the forum, recently i bought the DSA815 TG and it was installed with the Firmware 00.01.09 and this evening i have successful updated the latest firmware 00.01.12

Does anyone happen to update to this version and do you know what was added or fixed please.

Thanks

 
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: radiogeek97 on January 04, 2015, 05:37:05 am
tom d

what boot-loader version does your machine have ?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Tom D on January 04, 2015, 07:25:40 am
tom d

what boot-loader version does your machine have ?

Mine is an earlier machine with v1.02.

(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a591/TomD351/Ver_zps5c0fa15b.jpg)



Does anyone happen to update to this version and do you know what was added or fixed please.   

If you go back a page, Pinkus has listed the features/fixes in Reply #398.

Tom
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Firetank on January 04, 2015, 10:33:49 am
Hi Tom D, many thanks for your prompt reply and also your help regarding the early post by pinkus which i missed as i said i am a newbie.

Looks like they made some good changes, i have bought the dsa815 just 10 days ago so i am still learning.

Here please find attached two pics of the shipped version and now with the latest firmware and you can notice what was changed.

Kind Regards

Ray

 
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Tom D on January 04, 2015, 10:58:12 am
Hello, Ray, welcome to the EEVblog forum. I see that your "Version of Main Board" is 00.08, which makes me wonder if the hardware in these newer DSA 815 units is shared with the DSA 832.

Tom
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Firetank on January 04, 2015, 11:14:28 am
Hello Tom D, well i dont know if this could be possible, although it always could be with some sort of software related ....

I am waiting to receive also the VB1020 VSWR kit which i ordered 2 days ago. It should be a great add on for my shack workshop.

I want to thank all contributors to this great informative forum, as i am finding a lot of useful information.

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: kado on January 04, 2015, 11:56:38 am
Hi,

please could anybody post a download-link for the new firmware?

thanks Karsten
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Firetank on January 04, 2015, 12:28:33 pm
This is the latest Firmware upgrade ( Firmware 00.01.12) for the 815 tg, however i am no responsible for any damage cause with this upgrade for your unit.

I am saying this cause not all 815's board versions might take this update.

This update firmware was sent to me by Regol for my latest version of 815.

My main board version is 00.08

Hope this helps

 https://www.dropbox.com/s/t5wprax8wmyuyr3/DSA815(DSP)update_00.01.12.00.02.zip?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/t5wprax8wmyuyr3/DSA815(DSP)update_00.01.12.00.02.zip?dl=0)


Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: kado on January 04, 2015, 12:35:12 pm
Hi Ray

thanks very much. I will give it a try.

My Boardversion is 00.04 with SN is DSA8A1616..... which tell that it is build in 16.th week of 2014!
There is a remarkable jump to 00.08 in the last past month of 2014.

Karsten
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Firetank on January 04, 2015, 01:49:43 pm
Welcome Karsten, i hope it will work well, please keep us posted :)

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Howardlong on January 04, 2015, 02:34:19 pm
Good that I can move backwards and forwards between 1.09 and 1.12 if necessary.

The re-writing of the FRAM time parameter appears to still work under 1.12, but I don't know about the other option of simply enabling the WP pin. ( https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sniffing-the-rigol's-internal-i2c-bus/msg572507/#msg572507 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sniffing-the-rigol's-internal-i2c-bus/msg572507/#msg572507) )

As expected the TG minimum is -20dBm under 1.12, but if I regress back to 1.09 I can still choose -30dBm on the example hardware I have here.

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: KD0RC on January 04, 2015, 04:09:39 pm
Good that I can move backwards and forwards between 1.09 and 1.12 if necessary.

The re-writing of the FRAM time parameter appears to still work under 1.12, but I don't know about the other option of simply enabling the WP pin. ( https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sniffing-the-rigol's-internal-i2c-bus/msg572507/#msg572507 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sniffing-the-rigol's-internal-i2c-bus/msg572507/#msg572507) )

As expected the TG minimum is -20dBm under 1.12, but if I regress back to 1.09 I can still choose -30dBm on the example hardware I have here.


It would be interesting to compare the two load images to figure out which memory location controls the TG level.  Then it could be re-written with the old value (and would then probably need a checksum re-calc...).  This might even be a way to hack it to -40dBm like the 832 and 875 units.  It would be really cool to get it to be a DSA 832!  I wonder if it is the same board and components...
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: kado on January 04, 2015, 05:54:16 pm
Ray, for information

update 1.12 with your downloadlink is working well. Altough there seems to be a significant change in the mainboards between rev 00.04 to 00.07 and the newest 00.08:

my noisefloor (full span, conds same as posted from Howardlong) is only by -50 dB !!!

Are there any other guys with a new DSA815 (board rev. 07 or 08) who can tell us the same low noise level?

Karsten
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Firetank on January 04, 2015, 08:20:11 pm
Karsten, i am glad you succeeded and its working well....

:)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: jc101 on January 05, 2015, 05:02:52 pm
Ray, for information

update 1.12 with your downloadlink is working well. Altough there seems to be a significant change in the mainboards between rev 00.04 to 00.07 and the newest 00.08:

my noisefloor (full span, conds same as posted from Howardlong) is only by -50 dB !!!

Are there any other guys with a new DSA815 (board rev. 07 or 08) who can tell us the same low noise level?

Karsten
I have recently bought a DSA815-TG, main board is v00.07, on FW 1.09 the TG will go down to -30dB, the noise floor looks pretty good too.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Firetank on January 08, 2015, 08:09:15 pm
Hi Gents, this evening i just received the VB1020 kit and the full software key.

I will post some updates later how i find it to work ;)

Just updated the licence key .....

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: nkw on January 09, 2015, 01:01:22 am
Hi Gents, this evening i just received the VB1020 kit and the full software key.

I will post some updates later how i find it to work ;)

Just updated the licence key .....

My DSA815-TG came with 1.09 and the 1.04 bootloader. The tracking generator will go down to -30dBm, and my noise floor looks just like Howardlong's.

I'm interested to hear about the VB1020. It has been sitting in my cart at tequipment, but I can't bring myself to pull the trigger when the price is so steep and I could probably just buy the minicircuits directional coupler + short the WP pin on the FRAM to keep the demo options.

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: hpux735 on January 09, 2015, 01:11:10 am
I've been really happy with my minicircuits directional coupler. Just saying. :) also, the math for swr and return loss is trivial.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Solder_Junkie on January 09, 2015, 10:26:35 am
I'm interested to hear about the VB1020. It has been sitting in my cart at tequipment, but I can't bring myself to pull the trigger when the price is so steep and I could probably just buy the minicircuits directional coupler + short the WP pin on the FRAM to keep the demo options.
I made one of the VK3DIP return loss bridges, he has several variations that go up to around 3 GHz. The cost is peanuts. Mine is good to 1 GHz and usable to 1.5, I used type 43 binocular cores and RG110 coax. The cores were £2 for 5... I certainly wouldn't shell out for the Rigol RLB kit.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: radiogeek97 on January 09, 2015, 01:12:08 pm
Solder
     Would you mind posting some inks to where you purchased the parts?  I mainly am concerned with the housing and the beads /cores
Thanks in advance
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: DRT on January 09, 2015, 01:20:44 pm
I've been really happy with my minicircuits directional coupler. Just saying. :) also, the math for swr and return loss is trivial.

I too have been very happy with the Minicircuits ZFDC-20-5+. I've also become accustomed to working with Return Loss in preference to VSWR and not using the VSWR menu at all.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Solder_Junkie on January 09, 2015, 01:28:51 pm
The article mine is based on is:
http://www.yagicad.com/Projects/ARRLB.htm (http://www.yagicad.com/Projects/ARRLB.htm)
The housing is a Hammond diecast box type 1590A, external size 93mm long by 39mm wide, 31mm high (inc lid). They are listed by several sellers on eBay.

The binocular cores are Amidon type BN43-202, for better UHF performance BN61-202 could be used. My interest is mainly HF, for which the 43 type is ideal.

The '43 cores are listed on eBay, both types are available from the G QRP Club (members only).
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: radiogeek97 on January 09, 2015, 03:41:13 pm
thanks
    i have more use for the commercial 450-512 and 7-800 pub saftey bands  I will look into the parts you have listed.  thank you for the reply
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on January 09, 2015, 05:29:29 pm
Hi Gents, this evening i just received the VB1020 kit and the full software key.

Firetank:

Congratulations on you new DSA815-TG.  I'm sure you will enjoy it very much.  Although I want to to caution you that Rigol has been having problems with their 'expensive' VB1020 VSWR Bridge for the last couple of years.  And as a result they have lowered the specifications a couple of time since it was initially released for production.  I included a plot of one I tested for a friend in 2013, but please note that they have since reduced the Return Loss Specification to 20dB typical and 15dB minimum.  So if you measure your new unit I expect that it could possibly be worse than my test results were.

I have included some links for Return Loss Bridges that are available.  You can also use a Mini-Circuits Directional Coupler (although what you get will be what you will have).  You may be happier using a Return Loss Loss Bridge (that can be adjusted and tweaked at least a little A/R), and there are several available at reasonable cost ($70 to $150 is reasonable).  And then you may want something even better(?).  All of the units I referenced I think are probably at least as good as the VB1020 (yes, I believe even the cheapest).  I would recommend returning your VB1020 for full refund, and by the way you have the VSWR Key, so that will remain on your DSA.  Tell them that the performance is way too low for your use of a RLB, and you will get your full refund.  The VB10220 is a nice clean package, but it doesn't work very well for its intended purpose.

What should a RLB have for a minimum Return Loss (with the UUT port terminated with an excellent 50 ohm termination)?  Ideally 30dB minimum for general hobbyist measurements, 35dB is preferred, and 45dB minimum for laboratory type measurements.  The amount of error, either to the worst, or 'incorrectly' to the better, can be very significant even with a Return Loss Spec. of 30dB.  You may want to to do a little research about RLB's to understand and appreciate this.

Not recommended, but very inexpensive:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/100M-1000MHz-RF-Reflection-Bridge-VSWR-SWR-Bridge-Antenna-Analyzer-Module/171589343360?_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D777000%26algo%3DABA.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131227121020%26meid%3Da0eb29102f10459ba35638440de62a60%26pid%3D100009%26prg%3D20131227121020%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/100M-1000MHz-RF-Reflection-Bridge-VSWR-SWR-Bridge-Antenna-Analyzer-Module/171589343360?_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D777000%26algo%3DABA.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131227121020%26meid%3Da0eb29102f10459ba35638440de62a60%26pid%3D100009%26prg%3D20131227121020%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26)

Again not recommended, but still inexpensive:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/3MHz-1200MHz-RF-Reflection-Bridge-Directional-VSWR-SWR-Bridge-Antenna-Analyzer-/171521995972?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27ef81f4c4 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/3MHz-1200MHz-RF-Reflection-Bridge-Directional-VSWR-SWR-Bridge-Antenna-Analyzer-/171521995972?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27ef81f4c4)

Is 500MHz enough for you(?):  http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-1-500-MHZ-reflection-bridge-standing-wave-bridge-rf-bridge-/111510492079?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19f68b13af (http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-1-500-MHZ-reflection-bridge-standing-wave-bridge-rf-bridge-/111510492079?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19f68b13af)

This may be a good option:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-1-1000MHz-1GHz-reflection-VSWR-bridge-bridge-bridge-RF-SWR-bridge-/131329059012?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e93d268c4 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-1-1000MHz-1GHz-reflection-VSWR-bridge-bridge-bridge-RF-SWR-bridge-/131329059012?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e93d268c4)

This is probably a Best choice:  http://www.amtronix.com/rlb.htm (http://www.amtronix.com/rlb.htm)  Note that it needs a reference '50 Ohm Termination', and one to check its Return Loss* capability (* you will need this with any RLB you buy, or make).

Edit by Ted572:  Added the following information.  1/10/2015: Added Mini-Circuits ZFDC-20-4 Return Loss Data.

Explore all of the available RLB options:  Search eBay, Google, etc yourself.  Do you want to buy or make yourself, and most important what capability suites your primary interest?
Recommended 50 Ohm Termination:   Mini Circuits (MCL) model KARN-50-18+, N male connector, 2 Watts, DC to 18GHz, $14 each (brand new).  http://www.minicircuits.com/pdfs/KARN-50-18+.pdf (http://www.minicircuits.com/pdfs/KARN-50-18+.pdf)  This is an excellent 50 Ohm Termination.  You can spend up to ten times more money from other sources, but I don't think you will get any better quality than what this unit has.  If you are going to build your own RLB, then I suggest  getting at least two (2).  One for the reference termination, and one to use for checking (calibration) for your available Return Loss.  You can see a KARN-50-18+ on the back side of my RLB (50 Ohm REF).
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: orbiter on January 10, 2015, 12:43:49 am
Hi all..

I just got a DSA815-TG and after reading the DS2000 thread until my eyes are red, I'd just like some confirmation please before going ahead with the options process, and if indeed it's still valid on the newer versions of the SA.

My DSA came with FW 1.09 installed, and as soon as It turned-up I installed FW 00.01.12. The Main board is version :00.08 and Boot is :00.01.04. FPGA :00.05

Would someone be kind enough to confirm please that using the private Key & Keygen to make the options permanent on the DSA815-TG is still the current method, and do I have to revert back to FW 1.09 before proceeding?

Many Thanks guys 
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: nkw on January 10, 2015, 01:11:54 am
My DSA came with FW 1.09 installed, and as soon as It turned-up I installed FW 00.01.02. The Main board is version :00.08 and Boot is :00.01.04. FPGA :00.05

Would someone be kind enough to confirm please that using the private Key & Keygen to make the options permanent on the DSA815-TG is still the current method, and do I have to revert back to FW 1.09 before proceeding?

My DSA came with (and still has) the 1.09 firmware and 1.04 bootloader and none of the key generators have generated successful option codes. I intended to pop the cover and see if I could do any good with my new JTAG thing-a-ma-bob, but haven't done so yet. My understanding (though I have not tried it) is that if you still have demo time left you can enable the write protect on the FRAM and keep the demo time from counting down. I think Howardlong on the forum has posted info on that.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on January 10, 2015, 01:52:50 am
My DSA came with FW 1.09 installed, and as soon as It turned-up I installed FW 00.01.02. The Main board is version :00.08 and Boot is
My DSA came with (and still has) the 1.09 firmware and 1.04 bootloader and none of the key generators have generated successful option codes. I intended to pop the cover and see if I could do any good with my new JTAG thing-a-ma-bob, but haven't done so yet. My understanding (though I have not tried it) is that if you still have demo time left you can enable the write protect on the FRAM and keep the demo time from counting down. I think Howardlong on the forum has posted info on that.

'nkw':

Unfortunately there currently isn't a Riglol keygen that will work for your DSA's Firmware (.01.09/.01.04).  So for now you should quickly incorporate one of 'Howardlong's' FRAM modification methods to extend the trial periods (hopefully to never expire).  My guess is that you may simply be able to solder U1105 pins 7 and 8 together, as long s you don't need to change the network address, etc.  If this doesn't work you can piggyback his PIC on top of U1105 to do it fully.  You may want to discus this with him first before jumping inside your DSA.  As far as using a JTAG, this may be beyond your skill level.  But if not, go for it, as a keygen will be required to get the 10Hz RBW, which is not an available Trial.  And 10Hz RBW is very important for most of us to have.  The other options you should be able to retain and use as is thanks to 'Howardlong'.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on January 10, 2015, 02:08:13 am
Hi all..

I just got a DSA815-TG and after reading the DS2000 thread until my eyes are red, I'd just like some confirmation please before going ahead with the options process, and if indeed it's still valid on the newer versions of the SA.

My DSA came with FW 1.09 installed, and as soon as It turned-up I installed FW 00.01.02. The Main board is version :00.08 and Boot is :00.01.04. FPGA :00.05

Would someone be kind enough to confirm please that using the private Key & Keygen to make the options permanent on the DSA815-TG is still the current method, and do I have to revert back to FW 1.09 before proceeding?

Many Thanks guys

Unfortunately there currently isn't a keygen to activate your Trial Options with firmware 00.01.09, or 00.01.12 with Bootloader 00.01.04.  Your only option is to extend the Trail time (Re. Howardlong's method) of your available Options, which BTW does not include the 10Hz RBW that most of us have had for quite sometime now.  Please read the comments I left in a Reply to 'nkw' above.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: radiogeek97 on January 10, 2015, 01:13:55 pm
Ted
 Greeat opinion post!  and the links were most helpful.  Unfortunately I jst ordered ine of your "not reccomended " units  |O  as far as the vswr bridge.  But I think I can still cancell the order,   As far as extending the trial period that may be the only option for now :(  I guess those of us that have new machines are stuck for now.  Thanks again for the links
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: orbiter on January 10, 2015, 01:22:20 pm
Ah ok. Thanks for reply ted, I think I'll get a bit of use out of the SA trials first before attempting the FRAM pin 7/8 short. Am I reading correctly that the shorting of pins 7/8 just stop the time counter or reset it on boot etc?

Reading into the post above am I seeing that JTAG reprogramming is required as well as the keygen for the 10Hz RBW option. Or can the keygen be used on it's own to enable this function?

Many Thanks.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on January 10, 2015, 02:07:51 pm
Ah ok. Thanks for reply ted, I think I'll get a bit of use out of the SA trials first before attempting the FRAM pin 7/8 short. Am I reading correctly that the shorting of pins 7/8 just stop the time counter or reset it on boot etc?

Reading into the post above am I seeing that JTAG reprogramming is required as well as the keygen for the 10Hz RBW option. Or can the keygen be used on it's own to enable this function?

Many Thanks.

The JTAG reader is required to come up with the Keygen info (beyond my current capability/interest).  Then the Keygen can be used to activate the Options.  The 10Hz RBW is still an Option in there, although it is not provided as a Trial because they don't sell it for the DSA815.  When it is activated it will NOT show up in the Official list like the Trials do.   Although once it is activated you will be able to find it listed as Option 0003 with the key code used to activate it in the Sys Info screens.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: orbiter on January 10, 2015, 02:11:35 pm
ok ted, understood. 

Thank you
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: orbiter on January 10, 2015, 08:48:19 pm
Just done Howardlong's mod on my new DSA815-TG... Lifting Pin 7 on IC: U1105 from the main-board & then shorting it to pin 8. Working fine on my system with latest Firmware 00.01.12. Boot Version 00.01.04 and with board version 00.08

On each reboot all trials are reset to the value they were at when the system was last turned off before mod (trial time must be available for this mod to work!) 

Thanks Howard

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/orbiter/IMAG0286_zps4c0858e7.png)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/orbiter/IMAG0287_zps12b32bb5.png)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: radiogeek97 on January 10, 2015, 10:13:59 pm
did I read in howards post (or maybee it was somebody else that did the mod also) that lifting pin 7 was NOT needed?  and that you could just short the pins I thought I read that someplace?  Has anybody done this mod and just shorted 7&8 without lifting pin 7?

     Orbiter
Great overall Pics!  just what I was wanting to plan my Mod!  No doubt where pins 7&8 are now :)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: (In)Sanity on January 10, 2015, 10:15:55 pm
did I read in howards post (or maybee it was somebody else that did the mod also) that lifting pin 7 was NOT needed?  and that you could just short the pins I thought I read that someplace?  Has anybody done this mod and just shorted 7&8 without lifting pin 7?

So how long do you think it's going to be before they start using the CPU clock for this expiration vs the RTC ?   I guess if you never update your firmware you'll be safe  :-\

Jeff
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: orbiter on January 10, 2015, 10:39:09 pm
did I read in howards post (or maybee it was somebody else that did the mod also) that lifting pin 7 was NOT needed?  and that you could just short the pins I thought I read that someplace?  Has anybody done this mod and just shorted 7&8 without lifting pin 7?

     Orbiter
Great overall Pics!  just what I was wanting to plan my Mod!  No doubt where pins 7&8 are now :)


I'm on FW 00.01.012 and found that lifting pin 7 was necessary too. I did try just shorting 7/8 initially with pin 7 still in place, but the counter didn't reset to where it was previously following reboot. It's resetting fine on reboot with pin 7 lifted though.

I did do the mod rather quickly though so perhaps I rebooted too quickly/slowly etc between reboots making my findings a little flaky. Perhaps the next mod attemptee could confirm.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: radiogeek97 on January 11, 2015, 12:21:59 am
well  i finally got her appart with a good sticker and am looking at pins 7&8  WOW small stuff here :)   I have a few questions out of fear here?

what size and type of tio on my soldering station should i use?  I have a small chizel tip and a real sharp pointed tip.  I have a hakko station what is a safe temp setting.
 As far as lifting the pin is there a prefered method/tools

Pins 7 & * if i just decide to short them am i at risk of doing immediate damage or should i try that first if I am too chicken to try to lift off the pin  sorry for the noob ??? but the chicken in me came out with this 2 day old machine

thanks all
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Howardlong on January 11, 2015, 12:42:32 am
For info, as I understand it, it appeared as though the pin 7 pad visually and electrically was not connected to anything, after lifting the chip from the board.

As I hope it was clear, this was never tested, just shorting 7 to 8, without lifting 7. However there was a resistance and diode check run to both rails when the entire chip was lifted which also indicated no connection. At the time of lifting the chip, the PIC solution was installed rather than pursuing the pin shorting method further.

So in view of results so far, I'd recommend lifting pin 7 unless anyone has empirical evidence suggesting otherwise.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Velund on January 11, 2015, 12:44:56 am
...but the chicken in me came out with this 2 day old machine...

If you have little experience with SMT rework - find some board from old dead HDD or something similar (with SOIC chips), and practice first. You will quickly figure out which tip is most convenient for you, and try your handy tools that may help to safely lift the pin.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: radiogeek97 on January 11, 2015, 12:49:35 am
so lift it I will do thanks for the advice,  why reinvent the wheel if i am this far into it right :)

Any recomendations on tips heat settings or methods?  i will look in youtube as well but just wondering how you folks did it
thanks
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Howardlong on January 11, 2015, 12:53:39 am
sorry for the noob ??? but the chicken in me came out with this 2 day old machine

The one I'm familiar with still has 34 hr 11 mins left on the trial, probably less then 2 hours use!
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: radiogeek97 on January 11, 2015, 01:19:47 am


Why didnt i think of that<<< ima dope   i will dig into my junk bin and try some dry runs.   :-+
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: radiogeek97 on January 11, 2015, 05:03:14 am
Howard & all my new friends :-*

   Well I have some news that may be helpful to all :clap:

Due to my ineptness or cowardess with  2 soldering stations tips tweezers magnification ect I could not get pin 7 lifted over an hour, YES i know some of you are probably thinking this idot shouldnt be inside the device if he cant lift one pin But that being said :-X 
My italian temper kicked in and I said bleep it just short the pins without lifting the 1 leg and fire the thing up if it blows put it back together and seal it back up

My findings: 
 #1 it did not blow up
#2 no manual IP addresses like we were told BUT dhcp works fine (tested it)
#3 the licens keys on my machine go from 34h-8min-57sec , 34h-8min-53 & 34h-8min-55 sec when the machine is on the time counts down as if the trial clock is ticking away.  I let the machine tick away to about 34H-6-min then i rebooted it.  Upon reboot the trial clock resumes at 34h-8min-57sec which is prob where it was frozen in time when the pins were shorted.
     I have tryied soft powering off the machine and removing power all together and when the machine reboots the trial clock resumes at 34h-8min-57sec.
I have tested the lan as stated above and I have played with the machine all keys and functions seem to be fine!  I am going to button this thing up Is there anything else you folks would want me to test,try ect before I do ?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: avvidclif on January 11, 2015, 06:25:33 am
Get a set of dental picks. They have superfine tips and can easily get under a single pin. Tin the trace and pin in question and touch the trace with the soldering iron tip and the pin will lift. Don't apply a lot of pressure or you'll lift the pad and pin before the solder melts.

YMMV, mess it up and it's your fault. Just reporting how I do it.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: radiogeek97 on January 11, 2015, 06:38:38 am
Going to order some of those fleabay Chinese dental pics now. Thanks
    Since I have not had any negative results this far, ran the machine for a few hours off and on ect ect I think I will leave this machine as is, unless the concern us is to lift the pin

  I have v109 FW  will have to contact Rigel for v12 I will post if I have issues performing the upgrade with pins 7&8 jumped with pin 7 in place
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Howardlong on January 11, 2015, 09:23:03 am
Preferred tools of enagagement here are tweezers style 7 (angled with very thin tips), a scalpel tip, and a Weller WSP80 iron with LT1 0.25mm tip.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: radiogeek97 on January 11, 2015, 11:03:34 am
At this point with several hours of off on testing, letting the clock run down rebooting testing machine functionality, I am pretty sure just plain shorting the pins has not caused any ill effects more so than lifting 7 and then shorting.  For purposes of wanting to button up the unit I think that's what I wil do, I am pretty happy that Howard's prior  testing on the chip indicating no apparent electrical pitfall to not lifting pin 7 even though he did lift it for his more advanced interface.
      I think my real world testing may make it easier for others, and should answer the question some had about to lift or not to.   I will continue to experiment and test the dsa today and will post any further results.   Feel free to ask if u all want me to try anything knowing how this particular machine is modded

Howard thanks I a going to get some exacto knifes and some of the tips you mensioned as well
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Howardlong on January 11, 2015, 11:28:39 am
Some people don't like angle tweezers, but they're my preference. It's not often one needs to lift a single SMD pin, so I wouldn't fret too much over it!

An illuminated magnifier is always a great help with this stuff, my eyes just won't cut it these days without. I used to think it was just the parts getting smaller, now I know it's also me getting old!

Also,I recommend staying off the caffeine too.

Glad that the quick way appeared to work for you without lifting the pin. I guess we should wait and see what others' experiences are though, as I did notice a recent report that it didn't work for someone just shorting the pins without lifting pin 7.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: radiogeek97 on January 11, 2015, 01:38:56 pm
Howard
   I looked like a diamond cutter with my mag head gear on lol

But back on point my particular unit has main board version 7. Not 8 as some have I will post all the other sys info. 
   To speak to the reference that the other member had that jumped and didn't lift and said it didn't work.   My unit WILL show the trial clock count down however when you reboot it resets.  I am not sure how the units that you have behave with the lifted pin 7  does the trial clock stop all together?
when I did the mod and saw the clock counting I said oh crap but then after removing power the timer was back to normal  :phew:  I think what could have happened and the members name escapes me but he may have saw the clock ticking down and said oh I'll just lift the pin.   All we can do is wait for other members to try it like I did.   I will post the exact sys info in a few
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Howardlong on January 11, 2015, 01:47:30 pm
The trial clock doesn't stop while running, it just resets when the unit is restarted.

I don't know what happens if you leave it on past the trial time...!
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: orbiter on January 11, 2015, 02:04:33 pm
The trial clock doesn't stop while running, it just resets when the unit is restarted.

I don't know what happens if you leave it on past the trial time...!

IIRC from my DS2072 (2302) :) .. I think once you get to the trial time limits the trial counter just expires, however you can continue to use the unit & features until the unit is switched off, obviously if you restart without any mods the trials will be expired... But with a mod the trial will just reset to however long was left on last boot, whether that be 35hours or 15 seconds.
 
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: orbiter on January 11, 2015, 02:54:09 pm
Correct radiogeek.. I've obviously viewed the counter increasing whilst the SA was on, and thinking that the counter should be static I've thought the mod hadn't took, so I lifted the pin.

Anyway.. I've cracked it open again and re-soldered pin 7 back down and jumped it to pin 8.

So for anyone looking in and wondering.... With the latest Main Board 00.08 Boot 00.01.04 and FW 00.01.12. The FRAM IC (U1105) pin 7 & 8 can just be carefully solder together.

Thanks again to Howardlong for his efforts in finding this mod.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/orbiter/DSA815-TG-Mod_zps145519f2.png)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: radiogeek97 on January 11, 2015, 03:13:42 pm
Orbiter
   Brave soul thanks for the confirmation.  you have board version 8 and I have 7 so at least we can confirm this works with the two latest board revisions.  I will look into a FW update to v12 I will email rigol, there is one floating around here but that is for board version 8.
     Yes and MUCH thanks to Howard

One question what is this TX1000 option?  Rf demo kit on my machine it's all greyed out and does not seem to be accessible
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: orbiter on January 11, 2015, 03:26:14 pm
One question what is this TX1000 option?  Rf demo kit on my machine it's all greyed out and does not seem to be accessible

It's controlled via PC...  Info on TX1000 here my friend...

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.batronix.com%2Fpdf%2FRigol%2FUserGuide%2FTX1000%2520Application%2520Note_EN.pdf&ei=fZWyVJzQAsr9aOWjgYgH&usg=AFQjCNEZsL0rUJ49HMGbe9Y-0lYyU-U-FQ&sig2=V3R6--oSq0Ogze4nwH8oRw&bvm=bv.83339334,d.d2s (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.batronix.com%2Fpdf%2FRigol%2FUserGuide%2FTX1000%2520Application%2520Note_EN.pdf&ei=fZWyVJzQAsr9aOWjgYgH&usg=AFQjCNEZsL0rUJ49HMGbe9Y-0lYyU-U-FQ&sig2=V3R6--oSq0Ogze4nwH8oRw&bvm=bv.83339334,d.d2s)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: radiogeek97 on January 11, 2015, 03:45:39 pm
Thanks
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Velund on January 11, 2015, 04:40:32 pm
Even if something wrong was not yet detected after shorting pins 7 and 8 without lifting pin 7, I'm not sure that it is safe way to go.

Imagine the following situation - you are shorting WP signal to Vcc and damage output buffer of controller that control this pin. Then, some new firmware starting to check if FRAM is writable, and block whole machine if any problems with this... The ones who lifted pin will be able to restore everything to previous state, but onew with fried buffer will be in trouble.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Howardlong on January 11, 2015, 05:34:20 pm
Even if something wrong was not yet detected after shorting pins 7 and 8 without lifting pin 7, I'm not sure that it is safe way to go.

Imagine the following situation - you are shorting WP signal to Vcc and damage output buffer of controller that control this pin. Then, some new firmware starting to check if FRAM is writable, and block whole machine if any problems with this... The ones who lifted pin will be able to restore everything to previous state, but onew with fried buffer will be in trouble.

To reiterate, the FRAM device was completely removed and visually inspected, and no tracks or vias were visible from the pin 7 pad. Resistance measurement was made to GND and VCC, and was infinite. A diode check was also made from the pad at pin 7 to VCC and GND, and no indication of any connection was detected.

While it is possible that there may have been an via-in-pad, judging from the way the rest of the board is made, it's unlikely.

Here's a pic I made by the way after the FRAM was removed, it's not great, but perhaps enough for you to judge for yourself.

(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d123/photobucket391/P1040195-Copy_zps6149d749.jpg) (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/photobucket391/media/P1040195-Copy_zps6149d749.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Velund on January 11, 2015, 08:33:21 pm
While it is possible that there may have been an via-in-pad, judging from the way the rest of the board is made, it's unlikely.

It is easy to remove all solder from the pad with fine solder braid and see if there any vias. But, really, it is unlikely.

So, it looks quite safe now...
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: radiogeek97 on January 12, 2015, 01:48:25 pm
Fwiw

     I upgraded the firmware on my (hardware) modded DSA last night from V9 to 12 with no issues
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Howardlong on January 12, 2015, 03:26:18 pm
While it is possible that there may have been an via-in-pad, judging from the way the rest of the board is made, it's unlikely.
It is easy to remove all solder from the pad with fine solder braid and see if there any vias. But, really, it is unlikely.

I did, the pic was taken after tinning the pads. However, in-pad vias are typically filled to avoid wicking the solder paste during assembly, so identifying them isn't always easy. Anyway, it's unlikely as you say, bearing in mind all that's been said on the subject already!
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: N8AUM on January 15, 2015, 12:13:10 am
Hello all, after watching youtube and reading about the DSA-815-TG I broke down and purchased one just before x-mass. After couple days of playing with it I decided to correct the time, well I guess I screwed up and ALL the demo stuff that was loaded with it and it caused it to expired ! oh well, but any ways even before that happened I could not get the Power Sweep to function and as far as I can tell that is not part of any "Demo" or am I incorrect ? Called Rigol support today but I guess they knock off shortly after noon lol
Came with ver 1.09 and ya, 04 bootloader  :(
I read somewhere that using the output of the TG as signal source was not very good. So far I find it fairly accurate and stable, less than 1hz drift over 4hrs @ 10Mhz. Also the output level seems well within spec the entire range according to my old HP-8591E

73  Vidas

   
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on January 15, 2015, 11:18:02 am
What are "vias" and "via-in-pad"???
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Mr Simpleton on January 15, 2015, 03:26:54 pm
What are "vias" and "via-in-pad"???
Connections between tracks on different layers.

If there is solder on the pad you may not see if there is a small plated hole making the pad/trace connect to other traces on other layers.
When shorting pins this may be vital information :D
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on January 15, 2015, 11:38:04 pm
Ok, thanks. Kinda odd terms.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: radiogeek97 on January 18, 2015, 02:09:25 pm
not sure if it is my dsa815 or me but i ran into a bit of an issue.  My machine has pin 7-8 jumped with pin 7 in place(not lifted)    What i was trying to do this morning was set up and test a small filter.  I had the machine set to full span,auto scale (just like in a tutorial dave did about lc-pi filter #343 @ about 9min 50s into video)   What is happening is when i try to use the normalize function if i hit "store refrence" the machine kinda locks up and wont let me switch the normalize function on or off.  if i hit preset and start all over but dont hit store refrence the normalize function will switch on and off but the trace is erratic because the machine dosent seem to be storing the information.   
     I am wondering if this is because of the jumper, just like we cant change lan settings will the jumper inhibit the way the device can store these refrences?  Can anybody with a machine modded like this try and see if what I am explaining so badly happens to them.  I watched daves video over and over and did everything exactly as he did.  I am running FW version 12   
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: orbiter on January 18, 2015, 03:09:07 pm
not sure if it is my dsa815 or me but i ran into a bit of an issue.  My machine has pin 7-8 jumped with pin 7 in place(not lifted)    What i was trying to do this morning was set up and test a small filter.  I had the machine set to full span,auto scale (just like in a tutorial dave did about lc-pi filter #343 @ about 9min 50s into video)   What is happening is when i try to use the normalize function if i hit "store refrence" the machine kinda locks up and wont let me switch the normalize function on or off.  if i hit preset and start all over but dont hit store refrence the normalize function will switch on and off but the trace is erratic because the machine dosent seem to be storing the information.   
     I am wondering if this is because of the jumper, just like we cant change lan settings will the jumper inhibit the way the device can store these refrences?  Can anybody with a machine modded like this try and see if what I am explaining so badly happens to them.  I watched daves video over and over and did everything exactly as he did.  I am running FW version 12   

Your not alone.. Mine shows exactly the same issue following the steps exactly in Dave's vid (below) from the 5min 30second mark.. As you say the Normalise function is inoperative following the pressing of the Store button. I thought it possibly may have been a file location or USB thing, but not so. Changing file storage location from SA memory to USB stick etc has no effect on the issue.

Could someone without the mod but using FW 00.01.12 confirm whether this happens on their machine please? As that would help to determine if this is a possible bug in latest FW, OR as a result of the mod? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg3PNgGW_M4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg3PNgGW_M4)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: radiogeek97 on January 18, 2015, 03:16:16 pm
if somebody can post  the version 09 firmware for the dsa815 i will switch my machine back and see if the FW has something to do with it  Or if its easier you can PM me ill provide my email address.  I my machine is main board v7 and bootloader 04
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: radiogeek97 on January 18, 2015, 04:02:06 pm
i found a link to v1.09 here on eevblog forum and downgraded my dsa and the normalize function and store refrence WORKED!  :-+   IT  must be a FW bug??
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Howardlong on January 18, 2015, 04:23:13 pm
Just tried it with the "advanced" mod (with the PIC which doesn't prevent writes) and it doesn't work either on 1.12 but does on 1.09. The Normalize button is ignored. Definitely interested to hear from someone who doesn't have the tweak try this on 1.12.

In the meantime I'm going back to 1.09!
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: orbiter on January 18, 2015, 04:48:36 pm
Same here.. Store > Normalise active again on FW 00.01.09

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: navzptc on January 19, 2015, 12:10:21 am
Same on my unit which doesn't need the pins to be tied together - went back to 01.09 and normalise works as it should.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: mmike on January 19, 2015, 11:31:06 am
I upgraded mine to 1.12 yesterday :-( does anyone can share the 1.09 .sys file ?
Can I downgrade to 1.09 just by providing the 1.09.sys file through the USB port and perfrom an "update" with this file ?

Does anyone know if downgrad to 1.06 will allow the keygen to work ?

thanks
 
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Howardlong on January 19, 2015, 11:36:55 am
Same on my unit which doesn't need the pins to be tied together - went back to 01.09 and normalise works as it should.

Thank you for the confirmation!
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Howardlong on January 19, 2015, 11:44:40 am
I upgraded mine to 1.12 yesterday :-( does anyone can share the 1.09 .sys file ?
Can I downgrade to 1.09 just by providing the 1.09.sys file through the USB port and perfrom an "update" with this file ?

Does anyone know if downgrad to 1.06 will allow the keygen to work ?

thanks

Yes, you can downgrade from 1.12 to 1.09. Although I had tried 1.12 before, there was no additional benefit for me so I'd already gone back down to 1.09 and that supports -30dBm TG on the version of hardware here (not all DSA815s support -30dBm).

I don't know about downgrading to 1.06: I tried downgrading to 1.08 but it wouldn't work, there is a newer bootloader (1.04) on my hardware that didn't like 1.08.

PM sent regarding firmware.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: mmike on January 19, 2015, 11:57:40 am
Thanks a lot, at least will downgrade back to 1.09
I have the same boot loader as you, So I can forget the keygen. I still have few days to see If I try your "Pin" solution
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: orbiter on January 19, 2015, 02:24:21 pm
Another thing I noticed using FW 00.01.012 was that the SA always powered itself on immediately it was connected to mains (without the use of it's ON button.)  I only noticed this as I tend to disconnect
my test instruments from the mains at the end of the day using remote mains plugs. Once mains was applied the next day the SA would power itself up.

Using FW 00.01.09 it doesn't do this and has to be started as it should (via it's ON button) Even if mains is introduced via the remote switch.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: radiogeek97 on January 19, 2015, 02:34:39 pm
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/285/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/285/)


this is the link to the v09 FW   its aout 3/4 way down
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: radiogeek97 on January 19, 2015, 02:36:57 pm
Orbiter

   i noticed the SAME THING with my dsa regarding powering on, I thought it was some setting that i had to select, but it sounds like it is a fw bug.   
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on January 19, 2015, 10:23:10 pm
Isn't there a menu setting that sets what the power up/down functions do??
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: orbiter on January 19, 2015, 10:43:12 pm
Isn't there a menu setting that sets what the power up/down functions do??

Nope. This is an issue that occurs as soon as mains is applied using FW 00.01.12 and the unit coming on even without pressing anything.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: (In)Sanity on January 20, 2015, 02:02:54 am
Interesting,  my 00.04 board version 815TG with 1.12 doesn't have this issue.   Tried it a few times,  doesn't power up when mains is applied. 

Jeff
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: orbiter on January 20, 2015, 01:59:50 pm
Ok... Contacted Rigol who got back to me today. They have kindly sent the report regarding Normalization off to R&D for investigation. Basically it could well still be a FW bug, however the Application Engineer who contacted me told me that he had confirmed the steps we're taking  to recreate the issue (Store Ref > Normalize) and that Normalization indeed didn't work.

HOWEVER (and I have done this AFTER reinstalling FW 00.01.12 again) ..  It seems that as suggested by the App Engineer... If you set NormRefPos 1% up and back down to the original setting 0% again the Normalization can be switched on".

I've also basically checked that as long as you initially change ANY value within either the NormRefLvl OR NormalRefPos settings, BEFORE hitting Normalise, then Normalization will work.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on January 20, 2015, 03:51:35 pm
What is the purpose of Storing The Reference Trace?  I know what is does, but why would we want to do it when using the Tracking Generator?  Why would I care what the trace looked like before Normalization?  And you certainly don't need to press 'Stor Ref' before dong a Normalize.  I have never done the Store Reference prior to a Normalize after initially seeing what it did.  So I wouldn't have even known about this Bug (?) without reading about it here in this thread about the 00.01.12 Firmware glitches.   And some people have gone back to 00.01.09 to have this function.  Why?

Can someone please tell me what I have been missing by NOT Storing a Reference Trace?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Howardlong on January 20, 2015, 04:03:21 pm
I don't think there's any need, like sheep we just follow what Dave does.

Baaaaah, baah.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: (In)Sanity on January 20, 2015, 04:23:44 pm
I don't think there's any need, like sheep we just follow what Dave does.

Baaaaah, baah.

LOL,  I've never bothered with it either.    Only useful thing I could is to display it for reference,   it doesn't nothing for the actual process that I can see.

Jeff
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: orbiter on January 20, 2015, 04:28:05 pm
What is the purpose of Storing The Reference Trace?  I know what is does, but why would we want to do it when using the Tracking Generator?  Why would I care what the trace looked like before Normalization?  And you certainly don't need to press 'Stor Ref' before dong a Normalize.  I have never done the Store Reference prior to a Normalize after initially seeing what it did.  So I wouldn't have even known about this Bug (?) without reading about it here in this thread about the 00.01.12 Firmware glitches.   And some people have gone back to 00.01.09 to have this function.  Why?

Can someone please tell me what I have been missing by NOT Storing a Reference Trace?

Wouldn't it be handy say for someone else to see, if you were sending the trace data elsewhere for comparison measurements?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on January 20, 2015, 04:38:15 pm
I don't think there's any need, like sheep we just follow what Dave does.

Baaaaah, baah.

 I realize that I was potentially setting myself up for embarrassment if I'm missing something basic here.  Although I use the Tracking Generator a lot and have never seen a use for storing the reference.   Then also, you would think that Rigol must have had something in mind for it because it is listed in the User Guide as something that can be done before Normalization(?).

And of course storing the reference can be, and is, very useful for many of the other SA measurements.

One thing that Dave doesn't do that I feel he should, is do a Normalize again after he changes the Start, Stop, or Span Frequencies.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Zucca on January 20, 2015, 05:12:05 pm
Interesting,  my 00.04 board version 815TG with 1.12 doesn't have this issue.   Tried it a few times,  doesn't power up when mains is applied. 

Jeff

Could it be with 220VAC the issue is there and with 110VAC (US) everything is OK?

Bah
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: (In)Sanity on January 20, 2015, 05:23:08 pm
Interesting,  my 00.04 board version 815TG with 1.12 doesn't have this issue.   Tried it a few times,  doesn't power up when mains is applied. 

Jeff

Could it be with 220VAC the issue is there and with 110VAC (US) everything is OK?

Bah

Yah,  I'm running the 110-120v version.   Didn't even see if it supports 220-240,  if it does guess I could step it up and try.

Jeff
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Zucca on January 20, 2015, 05:31:26 pm
Didn't even see if it supports 220-240

Your are fine, see page 13 here

http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/attachment/1579/f-0502/1/-/-/-/-/DSA800_DataSheet.pdf (http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/attachment/1579/f-0502/1/-/-/-/-/DSA800_DataSheet.pdf)

green light for the 110V vs 220V test!
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on January 20, 2015, 08:35:18 pm
As far as the DSA815/TG powering up right away when plugged into a 120VAC outlet, etc goes:  This is a problem with a lot of DSA8115 users, and this appeared for most all before upgrading to firmware 00.01.12.  It doesn't seem to matter if it is used on 120 or 220 VAC.  If it is happens on 220VAC, it is also an issue with 10VAC.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: mmike on January 21, 2015, 07:28:15 am
mine is 220 v powered and I was having the same bug, thi is why I downgraded to 1.09
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Zucca on January 21, 2015, 08:10:08 am
mine is 220 v powered and I was having the same bug, thi is why I downgraded to 1.09

We need a 110vac user reporting the issue to throw away my theory. Anyway I don't think it is related to the main suppy voltage in the new FW 1.12 units, it is more curiosity. In God we trust, the others bring data please.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on January 21, 2015, 12:42:30 pm
Hello,

I have no problem with switching on and Firmware 1.12, here 230 V.
Have you checked the settings for the power button?

Peter

Hello Peter:

My DSA815 was configured with Front Switch 'On', and I had the problem with it automatically coming on when 120VAC was initially applied.

Solution:  I set the Front Switch to 'Off' and then recycled the power (Off/On).   Then set the Front Switch setting back to 'On'.  I also re-selected Factory Default, although I doubt now that this was required.  And now it is Ok again and does NOT come on anymore when 120VAC is applied to the DSA.

When I first saw this issue quit some time ago I checked the Front Switch setting and it was 'On', so I just assumed - OK that's not the issue.  Thank you Perter for indirectly encouraging me to re-visit this setting and playing with it.  So yes it is some sort of bug alright, just apparently not part of any specific firmware version.  Ted

Edit: To highlight more of the process/issue.  And also to report that I have had other DSA users tell me that doing this also corrected their DSA automatic power On issues.   
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: N8AUM on January 23, 2015, 09:14:14 pm
Hello all, is my 815 the only one where the TG power sweep function is out to lunch ?

same with 1.09 & 1.12
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Howardlong on January 23, 2015, 11:13:21 pm
Hello all, is my 815 the only one where the TG power sweep function is out to lunch ?

same with 1.09 & 1.12

Zip here, running 1.09.

Set TG to -20dBm
Power sweep 20dB
Span 100Hz
TG on
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815 as signal source
Post by: N8AUM on January 28, 2015, 11:09:55 pm
Was messing around one day and decided to check the stability of the tracking gen of the 815 to be used as a signal source and thought I would share my findings. Using my Flex 5000A that was locked to a double oven source like the 010 option that are used in some of the HP freq counters. Using the PC's sound card I offset the receive frequency by 1Khz to receive WWV's carrier but using WWV this way is useless because of the Doppler effect caused by the ionosphere and maybe some cows jumping over the moon?
I did not calibrate the sound card and the ref osc. I just ball parked since I have no real reference source.
Well, thats my 2 bits worth !
   
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: hpux735 on January 29, 2015, 12:59:02 pm
That seems pretty reasonable to me.  I'm amazed about WWV, so much for using that to calibrate machines!
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on February 01, 2015, 08:19:28 pm
Introduction to using 'TG Power Sweep'.  See the attached PDF titled 'DSA815-TG, TG Power Sweep Mode'.

Edited Feb. 7, 2015: Revised the PFD document.  See it here -> https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg603946/#msg603946 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg603946/#msg603946)[/url]
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: N8AUM on February 01, 2015, 08:49:20 pm
Introduction to using 'TG Power Sweep'.  See the attached PDF titled 'DSA815-TG, TG Power Sweep Mode'.

Yes, a very handy feature, too bad it doesnt work with my 815  :-//
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Howardlong on February 01, 2015, 09:29:39 pm
Introduction to using 'TG Power Sweep'.  See the attached PDF titled 'DSA815-TG, TG Power Sweep Mode'.

Yes, a very handy feature, too bad it doesnt work with my 815  :-//

Same here, and that document was the basis of my tests.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: N8AUM on February 01, 2015, 09:48:18 pm
Introduction to using 'TG Power Sweep'.  See the attached PDF titled 'DSA815-TG, TG Power Sweep Mode'.

Yes, a very handy feature, too bad it doesnt work with my 815  :-//

Same here, and that document was the basis of my tests.

Rigol told me to send it back for an exchange.
Wish I could try with older firmware but I have the rev 04 bootloader so can only try it with 09 or 12 firmware.
 
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: orbiter on February 01, 2015, 09:51:44 pm
Doesn't work on mine either using the exact settings shown in the .pdf
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on February 01, 2015, 10:44:08 pm
TG Power Sweep works for me with firmware .12.  Did you connect a coax cable between TG Output and SA Input before selecting the 'Power Sweep' settings?.  You should see a ramp up to 10/11dB in 10 or 11 steps (I don't recall if it was 10 or 11).
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: orbiter on February 01, 2015, 11:04:18 pm
TG Power Sweep works for me with firmware .12.  Did you connect a coax cable between TG Output and SA Input before selecting the 'Power Sweep' settings?.  You should see a ramp up to 10/11dB in 10 or 11 steps (I don't recall if it was 10 or 11).

Yes coax connected.. With settings all exactly the same as shown in the Rigol .pdf, I just get a flat-line at -20dB with both FW 01.12 & FW 01.09. Does your SA have the U1105 pins 7/8 jumper mod that keeps the trials alive?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on February 01, 2015, 11:36:42 pm
TG Power Sweep works for me with firmware .12.  Did you connect a coax cable between TG Output and SA Input before selecting the 'Power Sweep' settings?.  You should see a ramp up to 10/11dB in 10 or 11 steps (I don't recall if it was 10 or 11).

Yes coax connected.. With settings all exactly the same as shown in the Rigol .pdf, I just get a flat-line at -20dB with both FW 01.012 & FW 01.09. Does your SA have the pin 7/8 jumper mod that keeps the trials alive?

Re. TG Power Sweep: No, I do not have U1105 Pins 7 and 8 connected together, as I have an older DSA818-TG (w/FW .12 now).  Maybe that is doing something to your unit.  I noticed that Howard's SA, and at least one other with his fix doesn't work either.  It will be interesting to see if this is the cause, although I hope not, and it kind of seems unlikely.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: N8AUM on February 01, 2015, 11:53:16 pm
TG Power Sweep works for me with firmware .12.  Did you connect a coax cable between TG Output and SA Input before selecting the 'Power Sweep' settings?.  You should see a ramp up to 10/11dB in 10 or 11 steps (I don't recall if it was 10 or 11).

Yes coax connected.. With settings all exactly the same as shown in the Rigol .pdf, I just get a flat-line at -20dB with both FW 01.012 & FW 01.09. Does your SA have the pin 7/8 jumper mod that keeps the trials alive?

Re. TG Power Sweep: No, I do not have U1105 Pins 7 and 8 connected together, as I have an older DSA818-TG (w/FW .12 now).  Maybe that is doing something to your unit.  I noticed that Howard's SA, and at least one other with his fix doesn't work either.  It will be interesting to see if this is the cause, although I hope not, and it kind of seems unlikely.

Pretty sure that should be a standard feature regardless if the trail period has expired or not ? Correct me if I am wrong.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Howardlong on February 02, 2015, 08:00:39 am
TG Power Sweep works for me with firmware .12.  Did you connect a coax cable between TG Output and SA Input before selecting the 'Power Sweep' settings?.  You should see a ramp up to 10/11dB in 10 or 11 steps (I don't recall if it was 10 or 11).

Yes coax connected.. With settings all exactly the same as shown in the Rigol .pdf, I just get a flat-line at -20dB with both FW 01.012 & FW 01.09. Does your SA have the pin 7/8 jumper mod that keeps the trials alive?

Re. TG Power Sweep: No, I do not have U1105 Pins 7 and 8 connected together, as I have an older DSA818-TG (w/FW .12 now).  Maybe that is doing something to your unit.  I noticed that Howard's SA, and at least one other with his fix doesn't work either.  It will be interesting to see if this is the cause, although I hope not, and it kind of seems unlikely.

FWIWI have the fix which doesn't stop writes to the FRAM, it just resets the time on boot up.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on February 03, 2015, 10:37:57 pm
Introduction to using 'TG Power Sweep'.  See the attached PDF titled 'DSA815-TG, TG Power Sweep Mode'.

I revised my interpretation of the DSA815-TG 'Power Sweep' mode by adding more information on what I understand it does.  See the attached PDF file.  Any comments will be appreciated, so that we may understand what Rigol had in mind for this mode that was not fully documented in their DSA800 User Guide.

Edited  2/7/2015:  See latest version is at -> https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg603946/#msg603946 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg603946/#msg603946)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: hpux735 on February 05, 2015, 06:32:40 pm
The new DSA815 firmware 00.01.12.00.02 works well, retains all installed options, adds features, and fixes.

Wall-E..can you share the features/fixes list?
Here you go (one comment: I already had -30dBm on my TG before, not -20):

Change log : DSA800(DSP)Version Notes.doc
Version 00.01.12.00.02
Date 2014-11-10

  • Increase the frequency offset function.
  • Increase the switch between local and remote command.
  • Increase the frequency of logarithmic function
  • Increase the key lock function.
  • Increase the traditional Chinese features.
  • Increased access to frequency reference the status of a remote command.
  • Increase sanitation function.
  • Increase in Peak List can turn off the display line.
  • Modify the option name information directly display option.
  • Modify the Trace preservation order in CSV format, from a list of changes to the three column.
  • To improve the quality of AM demodulation.
  • Modify the “Clear All” for “Blank All”, and redefine the “Clear Write”.
  • To solve the problem of inaccurate measurement of N dB.
  • To solve the problem of freq Count is not accurate.
  • To solve the problem of error loading an State file
  • To solve the problem TX1000 instrument connection after the crash.
  • The lower limit of TG range from -30dBm to -20dBm.

So, I finally upgraded from 1.09 to 1.12.  A few strange things:

The log frequency mode seems like it just takes a snapshot of the trace and re-scales it to be a log display.  The resolution on the low-frequency end of the trace is terrible, and the trace doesn't update.  Am I missing something?

Also, I looked at my licenses and it seems like some are missing, like the 10hz RBW.  But(!), I still have the ability to go down to 10hz RBW.  Is this standard now?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on February 05, 2015, 07:51:15 pm
Also, I looked at my licenses and it seems like some are missing, like the 10hz RBW.  But(!), I still have the ability to go down to 10hz RBW.  Is this standard now?

hpux735:

The 10Hz RBW is still an Option in there, although it is not provided as a Trial because they don't sell it for the DSA815.  When it is activated it will NOT show up in the Official list like the Trials do.   Although once it is activated you will be able to find it listed as Option 0003 with the key code used to activate it in the Sys Info screens.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: hpux735 on February 05, 2015, 07:56:30 pm
Also, I looked at my licenses and it seems like some are missing, like the 10hz RBW.  But(!), I still have the ability to go down to 10hz RBW.  Is this standard now?

hpux735:

The 10Hz RBW is still an Option in there, although it is not provided as a Trial because they don't sell it for the DSA815.  When it is activated it will NOT show up in the Official list like the Trials do.   Although once it is activated you will be able to find it listed as Option 0003 with the key code used to activate it in the Sys Info screens.


Very interesting.  Thanks for clearing that up!
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on February 06, 2015, 07:37:03 pm
I purchased the following Return Loss Bridge (RLB) from eBay that is made in China.  -> http://www.ebay.com/itm/121495681786?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.com/itm/121495681786?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)    My interest was not because I needed one, I don't, but that I wanted to see how good it could be for $39.  This looks like a good option for people that do not want to build one, or don't have a lot of money to buy a good one.  From the data (see attachment) you can see that its Return Loss is essentially 40dB or better up to 450MHz, and much better than the Rigol VB1020, or the Mini-Circuits directional Coupler.  You can find data on the Rigol and Mini-Circuit units in my post at -> https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg583550/#msg583550 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg583550/#msg583550)   Remember that you need a very good 50 Ohm Termination to check the Capability/Calibration of your RLB.  You even need one for the $600 Rigol VB1020, because its not supplied with one.  If you don't have a good Termination one you will NOT know what its capability is.  I recommend the Mini-Circuits model KARN-50-18+, N male connector, 2 Watts, DC to 18GHz, $14 each Brand New (plus Tax and Shipping).  http://www.minicircuits.com/pdfs/KARN-50-18+.pdf (http://www.minicircuits.com/pdfs/KARN-50-18+.pdf)   This is not a place to try to save money, as it is very important to know how well your RLB works, or even that it does.  If you buy one of these eBay RLBs your results may be a little better, or worse, but in any case this looks like a good option for a basic RLB.

Edit:  I just received a PM and was asked if I would sell it for $50.  It has just been sold for $45 with shipping.  I'm taking it to UPS now.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on February 07, 2015, 02:45:45 pm
I haven't received any comments on the DS815 Power Sweep mode.  So I summed up my thoughts on what it does and how to use in the the provided attachment.  I changed my original PDF document to a JPG to make it easier and quicker to edit the original Rigol picture that was in error.  It was showing a 1.5dB Compression Point, rather than the correct 1dB Compression Point.

Edited 2/7/2015 to add some additional clarification to the picture and to provide a PDF document.
           Revised again:  Maybe this will help more for people not familiar with 1dB Compression measurement techniques.
   
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: hpux735 on February 07, 2015, 04:20:48 pm
So, I made an LNA breakout board (based on the Skyworks 67015).  I used my DSA815 to measure as much as I could.  I know my methodology isn't perfect.  I'm interested in opinions for how I could improve my methods.  I couldn't get power sweep to work (I was using a zero span).  I just saw in ted572's post that he's using 100hz span.  I'll try that next time.  I don't understand doing power sweep and frequency sweep at the same time...  Anyway, here's the video if you're interested:

http://youtu.be/hA-5vE_2gG8 (http://youtu.be/hA-5vE_2gG8)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on February 07, 2015, 04:49:40 pm
So, I made an LNA breakout board (based on the Skyworks 67015).  I used my DSA815 to measure as much as I could.  I know my methodology isn't perfect.  I'm interested in opinions for how I could improve my methods.  I couldn't get power sweep to work (I was using a zero span).  I just saw in ted572's post that he's using 100hz span.  I'll try that next time.  I don't understand doing power sweep and frequency sweep at the same time...  Anyway, here's the video if you're interested:

http://youtu.be/hA-5vE_2gG8 (http://youtu.be/hA-5vE_2gG8)

'Power Sweep' does NOT work with Zero Span.  The 'Power Sweep' occurs during the 100Hz Span (the Power Sweep).  The 100Hz Span in the example I provided.  If you used a wide Span then you would also be seeing the effects of the Bandwidth in the circuit under test.  So therefore you should always be using  a very small Span for the Frequency your making your measurements at.  Power Sweep is for checking  a circuit (Amplifier, Limiter, etc.) for Linearity by finding the 1dB Compression Point.

I would like to think that Rigol would have told us all this; rather than leave it to us to figure out what it does, is for, and how to use it.

Edit:  Changed (Sweep) in the second sentence to (the Power Sweep) to be sure that this is appreciated.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: hpux735 on February 07, 2015, 04:57:33 pm
Exactly. That's why I tried to do it with zero span. Dumb, dumb dumb. :) I'll have to try it with 100hz
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Teneyes on February 07, 2015, 07:39:38 pm
Yes 'Sweep' is mostly referring to a variation in the Frequency. Maybe a term like , " Power dynamic range" or "Power Linearity range" of DUT is better?

Why are there steps in the plot?  are there Changes of internal attenuations ?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on February 07, 2015, 10:48:10 pm
Yes 'Sweep' is mostly referring to a variation in the Frequency. Maybe a term like , " Power dynamic range" or "Power Linearity range" of DUT is better?

Why are there steps in the plot?  are there Changes of internal attenuations ?

Edit: Content revised 2/10/015

The D815-TG 'Power Sweep' mode is for testing an Amplifier, etc. for its Output Linearity.  Such as the 1dB Compression Point, etc.

Pages 2-42, 43 of the Rigol DSA800 User Guide shows that Power Sweep steps up 1dB in amplitude as frequency span increments up.  Rigol may not have explained the Power Sweep mode sufficiently, leaving some users not appreciating it fully, or understanding what its purpose is.

Power Sweep provides an increase in TG output amplitude as frequency Span progresses.  The frequency Span is kept to a absolute minimum (100Hz) so that the test results aren't effected by the Bandwidth of the device being tested for amplitude input/output linearity.

You can determine if Power Sweep works in your DSA815-TG by connecting a coax cable between the DSA815-TG's 'TG Output' and 'SA Input', and then selecting the following settings:

Preset (Green key), FREQ: 750MHz (the Test Frequency), SPAN: 100Hz, RBW: 100Hz (Required if 10Hz RBW Option is installed),  TG: On, TG Level: -20dB, Power Range: 20dB, Power Sweep: On, AMP: Auto Scale, Scale/Div: 2dB, Ref Level: -1dB (or A/R).

You should see the results of Power Sweep with its 1db amplitude steps over a 20dB range.  Although 1 or more of the steps may have 2 steps lumped together as a 2dB ramp up (probably a Bug).
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: orbiter on February 09, 2015, 05:31:39 pm
As you, this mode seems to have confused many users, and consequently they may feel that Power Sweep is not working in their DSA815-TGs.  I believe they are probably all working fine, but due to Rigol not explaining the Power Sweep mode sufficiently (if hardly at all) has left many not understanding it in the least, and as a result seeing it as not functioning.

Edit:  If you connect a coax cable between the TG Output and SA Input and set the DSA with the Example Measurement Settings shown here -> https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/?action=dlattach;attach=134859 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/?action=dlattach;attach=134859)  you will see the results of Power Sweep without going thru an Amplifier.  The results will show the amplitude steps, and be linear.

Just as a matter of interest.. I carried out the Power Sweep to the exact word again today with & without the trial mod. And on my unit the Power Sweep function does nothing at all..  As seen here..

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/orbiter/IMAG0299_zps0727103c.png)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: georges80 on February 09, 2015, 06:26:36 pm
Attached shows the power sweep on my 815. Coax cable from TG output to RF input.

cheers,
george.

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Tom D on February 10, 2015, 01:01:48 am
Here's the power sweep on my unit, same connection as George; coax cable from TG output to RF input.

(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a591/TomD351/MyDSA815_zps33645962.png)

Tom
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: N8AUM on February 10, 2015, 07:47:42 pm
Another use for "ramping up" the output this way is if lets say you know that you have loss in your connectors on the high end so now you can compensate for that loss using the power sweep function.
 
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: PA0PBZ on February 10, 2015, 08:22:43 pm
I wonder why it skips a one dB step every 5 steps.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on February 10, 2015, 08:45:20 pm
I wonder why it skips a one dB step every 5 steps.
Its not skipping 1dB, its jumping 2 dB.
You should see the results of Power Sweep with its 1db amplitude steps over a 20dB range.  Although 1 or more of the steps may have 2 steps lumped together as a 2dB ramp up (probably a Bug). 
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: N8AUM on February 10, 2015, 09:31:54 pm
I wonder why it skips a one dB step every 5 steps.
Its not skipping 1dB, its jumping 2 dB.
You should see the results of Power Sweep with its 1db amplitude steps over a 20dB range.  Although 1 or more of the steps may have 2 steps lumped together as a 2dB ramp up (probably a Bug).

Its because of the resolution with the parts they are using and or the software. Normally when you sweep a wider range you will not notice these "steps". 
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Howardlong on February 10, 2015, 09:53:59 pm
You can determine if Power Sweep works in your DSA815-TG by connecting a coax cable between the DSA815-TG's 'TG Output' and 'SA Input', and then selecting the following settings:

Preset (Green key), FREQ: 750MHz (the Test Frequency), SPAN: 100Hz, RBW: 100Hz (Required if 10Hz RBW Option is installed),  TG: On, TG Level: -20dB, Power Range: 20dB, Power Sweep: On, AMP: Auto Scale, Scale/Div: 2dB, Ref Level: -1dB (or A/R).

You should see the results of Power Sweep with its 1db amplitude steps over a 20dB range.  Although 1 or more of the steps may have 2 steps lumped together as a 2dB ramp up (probably a Bug).

Here's a video of mine not working: http://youtu.be/yRFq4LElbw0 (http://youtu.be/yRFq4LElbw0)

It was shot in 1080p/50fps, it will take a few minutes to show at the full resolution.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on February 11, 2015, 12:55:19 am
You can determine if Power Sweep works in your DSA815-TG by connecting a coax cable between the DSA815-TG's 'TG Output' and 'SA Input', and then selecting the following settings:

Preset (Green key), FREQ: 750MHz (the Test Frequency), SPAN: 100Hz, RBW: 100Hz (Required if 10Hz RBW Option is installed),  TG: On, TG Level: -20dB, Power Range: 20dB, Power Sweep: On, AMP: Auto Scale, Scale/Div: 2dB, Ref Level: -1dB (or A/R).

You should see the results of Power Sweep with its 1db amplitude steps over a 20dB range.  Although 1 or more of the steps may have 2 steps lumped together as a 2dB ramp up (probably a Bug).

Here's a video of mine not working: http://youtu.be/yRFq4LElbw0 (http://youtu.be/yRFq4LElbw0)

It was shot in 1080p/50fps, it will take a few minutes to show at the full resolution.
Have you contacted Rigol about Power Sweep not functioning on your unit?

It is interesting that the only other people here I know of that have reported Power Sweep not working is 'obiter' and 'N8AUM'.  There is one thing in common between the three of you, which is the U1105 modification.  Is there any chance that connecting pins 7 and 8 of U1105 could have effected this function?  Although it seems  unlikely to me.  Anyway at this time it would to nice to hear from others having this issue that have NOT touched U1105 in their DSA815-TG.  I'm very sorry for suggesting this could even be a possibility, and I truly hope that it is not.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Teneyes on February 11, 2015, 01:04:39 am
I wonder why it skips a one dB step every 5 steps.
Its not skipping 1dB, its jumping 2 dB.
You should see the results of Power Sweep with its 1db amplitude steps over a 20dB range.  Although 1 or more of the steps may have 2 steps lumped together as a 2dB ramp up (probably a Bug).
Here is my b'11' .
I was going to suggest you get some cheese as I was going to do a lot of Whining

I played at 10 and 20 Seconds sweep time.
Playing with the 'Power Sweep' I see it as a function that combines at Power Stepping ramp with a frequency Sweep , from lower to higher. The Steps are normally in 1db steps and the Frequency is from a start to stop, (or center Frequency and span).
I do not know if this function is implemented on other  SA?
I suppose to test a Amplifier doing it by  changing 2 parameters at the same time does the test quickly. I would it one at a time. which can done with the DSA815, (set the span narrow)
As for the 2db jump and the no jump later, can be used to see if the response of the DUT is different between a 1 and 2 db step change, and also if the settling time after a power change can be observed for the long change spot.
(I once thought that an Engineer drew a step plot to explain to a programmer how the function was to be implemented, and then programmer copied the crude plot exactly with odd steps  :palm: )

One room for improvement is that the stepping ramp should hold the last step for the full period and NOT just a short time. That is for 20 db range change . divide the span into 21 parts.
Note there is an long hold at one power step, but a double 2db step to offset the long hold.

What is the cause of the sloping change of the power step (fast sweeps)?
Is it the:
   program? showing smooth ramping ( but why hold at slow time sweeps)
   response of the Func. Gen power change?
   response of the SA? averaging?
   response of the Display program?

In order to see in the time domain , I watched two 'Power Ramp Sweeps' with My DSO
Center= 100 Mhz , span 50MHz and 2 Mhz (Note displayed Freq.)




Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Teneyes on February 11, 2015, 01:11:17 am
video of mine not working:
Is there any chance that connecting pins 7 and 8 of U1105 could have effected this function?  Although it seems  unlikely to me. 
Is there a preset condition for the tracking gen that is not set??
The Video shows the power drops? Does the output turn completely Off when the Ref Level was set?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: N8AUM on February 11, 2015, 02:07:28 am
You can determine if Power Sweep works in your DSA815-TG by connecting a coax cable between the DSA815-TG's 'TG Output' and 'SA Input', and then selecting the following settings:

Preset (Green key), FREQ: 750MHz (the Test Frequency), SPAN: 100Hz, RBW: 100Hz (Required if 10Hz RBW Option is installed),  TG: On, TG Level: -20dB, Power Range: 20dB, Power Sweep: On, AMP: Auto Scale, Scale/Div: 2dB, Ref Level: -1dB (or A/R).

You should see the results of Power Sweep with its 1db amplitude steps over a 20dB range.  Although 1 or more of the steps may have 2 steps lumped together as a 2dB ramp up (probably a Bug).

Here's a video of mine not working: http://youtu.be/yRFq4LElbw0 (http://youtu.be/yRFq4LElbw0)

It was shot in 1080p/50fps, it will take a few minutes to show at the full resolution.
Have you contacted Rigol about Power Sweep not functioning on your unit?

It is interesting that the only other people here I know of that have reported Power Sweep not working is 'obiter' and 'N8AUM'.  There is one thing in common between the three of you, which is the U1105 modification.  Is there any chance that connecting pins 7 and 8 of U1105 could have effected this function?  Although it seems  unlikely to me.  Anyway at this time it would to nice to hear from others having this issue that have NOT touched U1105 in their DSA815-TG.  I'm very sorry for suggesting this could even be a possibility, and I truly hope that it is not.

My 815 is a virgin, no mods. It came with 1.09 firmware. I tried with 1.12 with same results. Unfortunately it also came with 1.04 bootloader so am not able to try it with older firmware. I spoke with Rigol and they will exchange unit for a new one once they come in. Because of the strike out west might be a while before new stock comes in.
 
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on February 11, 2015, 02:37:48 am
video of mine not working:
Is there any chance that connecting pins 7 and 8 of U1105 could have effected this function?  Although it seems  unlikely to me. 
Is there a preset condition for the tracking gen that is not set??
The Video shows the power drops? Does the output turn completely Off when the Ref Level was set?

Teneyes:

Please understand that Power Sweep does do what it is expected to do for checking the linearity of an Amplifier, such as showing as the 1dB Compression Point, etc.  For myself and others it works.  And although sometimes it skips a 1dB increase step in amplitude and does 2dB instead, it still does the job.  But, yes the bug should be fixed to provide smoother display of an Amplifiers output.

It does not work at all for three people with version .01.12 firmware and BootLoader .04.  They had also modified  the U1105 DSA815-TG in their D815-TG.  In any case this is a separate issue.

See the PDf here -> https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg603946/#msg603946 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg603946/#msg603946)   and the way to test for Power Sweep here -> https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg604298/#msg604298 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg604298/#msg604298)   Other than that I feel you over analyzing this and need to pull back and understand what it is doing.  Remember it does work!  Keep in mind that it is testing at 750MHz (essentially as  CW signal), and that 100Hz span (sweep) is just a method to easily step the output amplitude up in 1 dB steps as much as 20dB maximum.  And the speed of this doesn't matter, because the SA stores each repetitive display.  The basic questions about this all came up because Rigol didn't fully explain its operation or what it is meant to do.

Edit:  I have got some cheese here, and I'll buy us the first two rounds of beer.  Do you have the time to join me?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Howardlong on February 11, 2015, 07:08:34 am

It is interesting that the only other people here I know of that have reported Power Sweep not working is 'obiter' and 'N8AUM'.  There is one thing in common between the three of you, which is the U1105 modification.  Is there any chance that connecting pins 7 and 8 of U1105 could have effected this function?  Although it seems  unlikely to me.  Anyway at this time it would to nice to hear from others having this issue that have NOT touched U1105 in their DSA815-TG.  I'm very sorry for suggesting this could even be a possibility, and I truly hope that it is not.

FWIW, my unit doesn't have pins 7 & 8 connected, so the FRAM is writeable, but it does have the slightly more advanced fix that resets the eight FRAM time bytes on power up.

However, I agree that we need some further evidence from the non-tamperers!

It's not a big deal for me, I have a VNA for measuring this stuff anyway, but it would be good to get to the bottom of this.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on February 11, 2015, 12:06:20 pm

It is interesting that the only other people here I know of that have reported Power Sweep not working is 'obiter' and 'N8AUM'.  There is one thing in common between the three of you, which is the U1105 modification.  Is there any chance that connecting pins 7 and 8 of U1105 could have effected this function?  Although it seems  unlikely to me.  Anyway at this time it would to nice to hear from others having this issue that have NOT touched U1105 in their DSA815-TG.  I'm very sorry for suggesting this could even be a possibility, and I truly hope that it is not.

FWIW, my unit doesn't have pins 7 & 8 connected, so the FRAM is writeable, but it does have the slightly more advanced fix that resets the eight FRAM time bytes on power up.

However, I agree that we need some further evidence from the non-tamperers!

It's not a big deal for me, I have a VNA for measuring this stuff anyway, but it would be good to get to the bottom of this.
I don't understand how a VNA can be used as a substitute for Power Sweep to measure an Amplifier's Linearity?

Yes, I hope we get a resolution to why a few DSA's don't work with Power Sweep.  Certainly your U1105 jumper 7/8 fix is very handy to keep the Trial Options active for new DSA815 owners, so I hope that there is no issue there with it.  And it seem unlikely.

Have you tried using UltraSigma to send SCPI Reset commands (such as Factory, etc) to the DSA to see if that may clear something up.  Its easy to do and the commands are listed in the DSA800 Programing Guide.  Or also using the new Sanitation mode in the unit.  I recall getting into Power Sweep initially seemed a little flaky to me(?), and now it has been working solid for me.  Did I clean something up playing with the Power On issue when applying AC power to the unit, or just zero in on the commands/sequence to use it reliably(?). 

Edit with a Question: What does FWIW stand for?  It must be something like FYI, IMHO(?).  I have been wondering about this for some time now.  When I first saw it I assumed you had a random finger/keyboard coordination glitch.  2nd edit one minute later:  Never mind, I just figured it out.  For Whatever It's Worth   
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Howardlong on February 11, 2015, 05:04:44 pm
I don't understand how a VNA can be used as a substitute for Power Sweep to measure an Amplifier's Linearity?

Yes, I hope we get a resolution to why a few DSA's don't work with Power Sweep.  Certainly your U1105 jumper 7/8 fix is very handy to keep the Trial Options active for new DSA815 owners, so I hope that there is no issue there with it.  And it seem unlikely.

Have you tried using UltraSigma to send SCPI Reset commands (such as Factory, etc) to the DSA to see if that may clear something up.  Its easy to do and the commands are listed in the DSA800 Programing Guide.  Or also using the new Sanitation mode in the unit.  I recall getting into Power Sweep initially seemed a little flaky to me(?), and now it has been working solid for me.  Did I clean something up playing with the Power On issue when applying AC power to the unit, or just zero in on the commands/sequence to use it reliably(?). 

Edit with a Question: What does FWIW stand for?  It must be something like FYI, IMHO(?).  I have been wondering about this for some time now.  When I first saw it I assumed you had a random finger/keyboard coordination glitch.  2nd edit one minute later:  Never mind, I just figured it out.  For Whatever It's Worth   

My 30 year old 8753A does a power sweep - see http://course.ee.ust.hk/elec518/ampsmeasure_NA.pdf (http://course.ee.ust.hk/elec518/ampsmeasure_NA.pdf)

(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d123/photobucket391/P1040391a_zps1hn9dbzj.jpg) (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/photobucket391/media/P1040391a_zps1hn9dbzj.jpg.html)

I haven't done any SCPI with it yet I'm afraid, but when I get a moment I'll have a go.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on February 11, 2015, 06:01:59 pm
I don't understand how a VNA can be used as a substitute for Power Sweep to measure an Amplifier's Linearity?

My 30 year old 8753A does a power sweep - see http://course.ee.ust.hk/elec518/ampsmeasure_NA.pdf (http://course.ee.ust.hk/elec518/ampsmeasure_NA.pdf)

Oh Wow, when you said your VNA, I never imagined that you had one of these jewels.  At home I have just used a RF Signal Generator and a Tek 496 Spectrum Analyzer to test Amplifier Linearity.  At work I used Spectrum Analyzers with Power Sweep, actually they were Network Analyzers. 
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Teneyes on February 11, 2015, 06:08:37 pm
My 30 year old 8753A does a power sweep - see http://course.ee.ust.hk/elec518/ampsmeasure_NA.pdf (http://course.ee.ust.hk/elec518/ampsmeasure_NA.pdf)
Thanks Howard
 It was interesting to see that the HP Power ramp test was at a fixed (user) Frequency.
and the suggestion to use the frequency of a Frequency Sweep 1db drop point.

Where as the Rigol changes both frequency and power level at the same time.

The HP8753 is able to vary the power level continuously, But the Rigol changes the power level in 1db steps (mostly :D)

@Howard did you check when the output power drops off during your TG setup?
From your video it looks like the 'Ref level' change, or the video Editing?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Howardlong on February 11, 2015, 06:36:12 pm
I don't understand how a VNA can be used as a substitute for Power Sweep to measure an Amplifier's Linearity?

My 30 year old 8753A does a power sweep - see http://course.ee.ust.hk/elec518/ampsmeasure_NA.pdf (http://course.ee.ust.hk/elec518/ampsmeasure_NA.pdf)

Oh Wow, when you said your VNA, I never imagined that you had one of these jewels.  At home I have just used a RF Signal Generator and a Tek 496 Spectrum Analyzer to test Amplifier Linearity.  At work I used Spectrum Analyzers with Power Sweep, actually they were Network Analyzers.

When  you replace the monochrome CRT with a NewScope-9 LCD, it suddenly seems to take 20 years off the unit. I wish I could take a bit of that medicine!

Just like with an SA with a TG, you still have to take care with your levels, having more than a few pads about is always wise.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Howardlong on February 11, 2015, 06:44:04 pm
My 30 year old 8753A does a power sweep - see http://course.ee.ust.hk/elec518/ampsmeasure_NA.pdf (http://course.ee.ust.hk/elec518/ampsmeasure_NA.pdf)
Thanks Howard
 It was interesting to see that the HP Power ramp test was at a fixed (user) Frequency.
and the suggestion to use the frequency of a Frequency Sweep 1db drop point.

Where as the Rigol changes both frequency and power level at the same time.

The HP8753 is able to vary the power level continuously, But the Rigol changes the power level in 1db steps (mostly :D)

@Howard did you check when the output power drops off during your TG setup?
From your video it looks like the 'Ref level' change, or the video Editing?

I was deliberately following ted572's instructions to the letter in case of any misunderstanding ( https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg604298/#msg604298 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg604298/#msg604298) )

When the Auto Scale is hit, as the TG has constant power the unit has min==max, so although the trace looks like it disappears, it's there, it's just at the bottom of the trace. Setting the scale/div to 2dB and ref to -1dBm doesn't help, as the TG is still fixed at -20dBm.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: N8AUM on February 11, 2015, 10:29:05 pm
So I noticed if you set the scale to .1db/div and sweep is normalized it slowly starts dropping. The picture shows about  -.04db drop after 10 minutes. Its been about an hr now and it dropped to -.07db. Will let it run over night and see what happens. Also every couple of sweeps I get a blip than goes away, I think its something with internal clock and sweep timing ? Anybody working on a new keygen for the ones that have the 1.04 bootloader? I sure miss the 10Hz RBW !
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Howardlong on February 11, 2015, 11:53:05 pm
So I noticed if you set the scale to .1db/div and sweep is normalized it slowly starts dropping. The picture shows about  -.04db drop after 10 minutes. Its been about an hr now and it dropped to -.07db. Will let it run over night and see what happens. Also every couple of sweeps I get a blip than goes away, I think its something with internal clock and sweep timing ? Anybody working on a new keygen for the ones that have the 1.04 bootloader? I sure miss the 10Hz RBW !

Over a span of 1.5GHz I'm not at all surprised.

Don't know about the blip, but yes a fiddle would be nice for the 10Hz, I am sure it's possible, but it's beyond what I'm realistically capable of that's for sure!
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: atx on February 12, 2015, 03:08:57 am
It is interesting that the only other people here I know of that have reported Power Sweep not working is 'obiter' and 'N8AUM'.  There is one thing in common between the three of you, which is the U1105 modification.  Is there any chance that connecting pins 7 and 8 of U1105 could have effected this function?  Although it seems  unlikely to me.  Anyway at this time it would to nice to hear from others having this issue that have NOT touched U1105 in their DSA815-TG.  I'm very sorry for suggesting this could even be a possibility, and I truly hope that it is not.

I have an untouched 815TG with firmware 1.09 and boot 1.04 and I have the exact same problem.  However, I could not believe that this is a faulty unit and contacted Rigol.  I got a response today and confirmation from Rigol that they just found out about this DSA issue.  Rigol confirmed that this is a firmware bug with units that contain the newest version of hardware.  They further informed me that this would be high priority and is expected to be corrected soon, whatever that means as the issue I brought up months ago with the MSO2k Logic Analyzer section (see other thread) isn't fixed so far.

Thus, the hardware must have been improved to result in that lower noise level as my response curve with an unplugged input looks very similar to that of HowardLong's unit as shown earlier in this thread..


My 815 is a virgin, no mods. It came with 1.09 firmware. I tried with 1.12 with same results. Unfortunately it also came with 1.04 bootloader so am not able to try it with older firmware. I spoke with Rigol and they will exchange unit for a new one once they come in. Because of the strike out west might be a while before new stock comes in.
 
 

Was that a recent information by Rigol?  As stated above, they seem to have found out that it is a firmware bug.

My system info is:

Main Board: 00.08
RF Board FPGA: 00.05
Digital Board FPGA: 00.04
Firmware 00.01.09
Boot:00.01.04

atx
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Howardlong on February 12, 2015, 03:12:32 pm
Thank you for the information atx, sounds more likely it is indeed a firmware/hardware compatibility feature.

Here are my hardware and firmware levels, the only difference appears to be the motherboard.

Mainboard 00.07
RF FPGA 00.05
Digital Board FPGA 00.04
Firmware 00.01.09
Boot 00.01.04
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on February 12, 2015, 05:30:59 pm
It is interesting that the only other people here I know of that have reported Power Sweep not working is . . . .

I have an untouched 815TG with firmware 1.09 and boot 1.04 and I have the exact same problem.  However, I could not believe that this is a faulty unit and contacted Rigol.  I got a response today and confirmation from Rigol that they just found out about this DSA issue.  Rigol confirmed that this is a firmware bug with units that contain the newest version of hardware.  They further informed me that this would be high priority and is expected to be corrected soon, whatever that means as the issue I brought up months ago with the MSO2k Logic Analyzer section (see other thread) isn't fixed so far.

Thus, the hardware must have been improved to result in that lower noise level as my response curve with an unplugged input looks very similar to that of HowardLong's unit as shown earlier in this thread..

Was that a recent information by Rigol?  As stated above, they seem to have found out that it is a firmware bug.

atx
This is great news!  It is nice that you looked into it with Rigol. . .     So hopefully soon everyone should be able to use Power Sweep.

Edit 2/18/2015:  Added Initial Settings for Configuring / Verifying Power Sweep Operation with the DSA815-TG.  See attached PDF.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: smgvbest on February 19, 2015, 06:08:23 am
I've looked but have not found a firm answer to several questions

Does the keygen work with the V1.09 or greater of the DSA815?
If it does work should I buy a DSA815 or DSA815-TG?   I look like the keys add the TG so I figure I so not need the -TG version

Thank you

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Howardlong on February 19, 2015, 06:48:05 am
I've looked but have not found a firm answer to several questions

Does the keygen work with the V1.09 or greater of the DSA815?
If it does work should I buy a DSA815 or DSA815-TG?   I look like the keys add the TG so I figure I so not need the -TG version

Thank you

The TG is hardware as well as firmware, and it's not available as an after market add on as far as I know.

The keygen only works on 1.08 of the firmware and below. However, this firmware only works on bootloaders below 1.04. 1.04 is the current shipping bootloader, and 1.09 or 1.12 is the current publicly released firmware. With the 1.04 bootloader, you cannot put on 1.08 firmware, so the keygen doesn't work with new units.

There are two workarounds which prolong the trials pf the options indefinitely.

The first is to short two adjacent pins on an FRAM chip on the board before the trials expire. This write protects the FRAM but has the side effect of disabling the ability to change LAN settings, and possibly other things like updating calibration settings, so it's wise to do a recal before doing the mod. Other than that, as yet there are no,other known side effects.

The second rather more complicated way is to add a small PIC with some firmware that sneaks in quickly at boot time to reset the time stored on the FRAM. This has the benefit that the LAN and any other settings stored in the FRAM can be modified as usual.

Note that in both cases, the time remaining on trials still appears to count down every 10s, but upon reboot it goes back to the time remaining when the mod was done. What happens if you happen to leave the SA on long enough to expire the trial times isn't known.

Both mods work with firmware 1.09 and 1.12.

I am sure someone smarter than me in the debugging department may well be able to come up with a rather more elegant way to achieve this.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: smgvbest on February 20, 2015, 02:12:37 am
Ok thank you now some of this makes sense.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Howardlong on February 20, 2015, 07:35:13 pm
So to make sure I understand, the mod to U1105 will work with FW 00.01.12 by shorting the # 7 and 8 pins on U1105 and that the pins DO NOT have to be lifted from the board.   Is that correct?

Thanks!
Thebobster

That is correct, unless, of course, the board has been changed! The board where a visual and electrical inspection was done on the pad on pin 7 to ensure it was isolated (ie, not connected) was Main Board 00.07.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: N8AUM on February 24, 2015, 08:05:51 pm
Just sent off my 815-TG for exchange, wonder what rev the batch will be ?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Firetank on March 01, 2015, 06:52:47 pm
Hi Gents, this evening i just received the VB1020 kit and the full software key.

Firetank:

Congratulations on you new DSA815-TG.  I'm sure you will enjoy it very much.  Although I want to to caution you that Rigol has been having problems with their 'expensive' VB1020 VSWR Bridge for the last couple of years.  And as a result they have lowered the specifications a couple of time since it was initially released for production.  I included a plot of one I tested for a friend in 2013, but please note that they have since reduced the Return Loss Specification to 20dB typical and 15dB minimum.  So if you measure your new unit I expect that it could possibly be worse than my test results were.

I have included some links for Return Loss Bridges that are available.  You can also use a Mini-Circuits Directional Coupler (although what you get will be what you will have).  You may be happier using a Return Loss Loss Bridge (that can be adjusted and tweaked at least a little A/R), and there are several available at reasonable cost ($70 to $150 is reasonable).  And then you may want something even better(?).  All of the units I referenced I think are probably at least as good as the VB1020 (yes, I believe even the cheapest).  I would recommend returning your VB1020 for full refund, and by the way you have the VSWR Key, so that will remain on your DSA.  Tell them that the performance is way too low for your use of a RLB, and you will get your full refund.  The VB10220 is a nice clean package, but it doesn't work very well for its intended purpose.

What should a RLB have for a minimum Return Loss (with the UUT port terminated with an excellent 50 ohm termination)?  Ideally 30dB minimum for general hobbyist measurements, 35dB is preferred, and 45dB minimum for laboratory type measurements.  The amount of error, either to the worst, or 'incorrectly' to the better, can be very significant even with a Return Loss Spec. of 30dB.  You may want to to do a little research about RLB's to understand and appreciate this.

Not recommended, but very inexpensive:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/100M-1000MHz-RF-Reflection-Bridge-VSWR-SWR-Bridge-Antenna-Analyzer-Module/171589343360?_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D777000%26algo%3DABA.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131227121020%26meid%3Da0eb29102f10459ba35638440de62a60%26pid%3D100009%26prg%3D20131227121020%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/100M-1000MHz-RF-Reflection-Bridge-VSWR-SWR-Bridge-Antenna-Analyzer-Module/171589343360?_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D777000%26algo%3DABA.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131227121020%26meid%3Da0eb29102f10459ba35638440de62a60%26pid%3D100009%26prg%3D20131227121020%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26)

Again not recommended, but still inexpensive:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/3MHz-1200MHz-RF-Reflection-Bridge-Directional-VSWR-SWR-Bridge-Antenna-Analyzer-/171521995972?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27ef81f4c4 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/3MHz-1200MHz-RF-Reflection-Bridge-Directional-VSWR-SWR-Bridge-Antenna-Analyzer-/171521995972?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27ef81f4c4)

Is 500MHz enough for you(?):  http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-1-500-MHZ-reflection-bridge-standing-wave-bridge-rf-bridge-/111510492079?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19f68b13af (http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-1-500-MHZ-reflection-bridge-standing-wave-bridge-rf-bridge-/111510492079?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19f68b13af)

This may be a good option:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-1-1000MHz-1GHz-reflection-VSWR-bridge-bridge-bridge-RF-SWR-bridge-/131329059012?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e93d268c4 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-1-1000MHz-1GHz-reflection-VSWR-bridge-bridge-bridge-RF-SWR-bridge-/131329059012?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e93d268c4)

This is probably a Best choice:  http://www.amtronix.com/rlb.htm (http://www.amtronix.com/rlb.htm)  Note that it needs a reference '50 Ohm Termination', and one to check its Return Loss* capability (* you will need this with any RLB you buy, or make).

Edit by Ted572:  Added the following information.  1/10/2015: Added Mini-Circuits ZFDC-20-4 Return Loss Data.

Explore all of the available RLB options:  Search eBay, Google, etc yourself.  Do you want to buy or make yourself, and most important what capability suites your primary interest?
Recommended 50 Ohm Termination:   Mini Circuits (MCL) model KARN-50-18+, N male connector, 2 Watts, DC to 18GHz, $14 each (brand new).  http://www.minicircuits.com/pdfs/KARN-50-18+.pdf (http://www.minicircuits.com/pdfs/KARN-50-18+.pdf)  This is an excellent 50 Ohm Termination.  You can spend up to ten times more money from other sources, but I don't think you will get any better quality than what this unit has.  If you are going to build your own RLB, then I suggest  getting at least two (2).  One for the reference termination, and one to use for checking (calibration) for your available Return Loss.  You can see a KARN-50-18+ on the back side of my RLB (50 Ohm REF).



Hi TED, thank you so much for the information....  This really makes me go mad now.... I have just came back from abroad, i was away for the last 2 months :(

i will check and see what i can do :(

Ray
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on March 02, 2015, 10:46:03 am
hpux735;
You didn't need to use the quote function for a simple reply, especially for a long quote.  ;)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Firetank on March 02, 2015, 02:20:22 pm
Well i did use the quote function cause the reply for the post goes back for about 2 months as i stated.

But thanks for your advice, i will keep that in mind.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Garnet on March 04, 2015, 08:50:48 pm
As to the power sweep issue. My SA arrived this morning and one of the first things I did was confirmed that (in its "virgin" configuration) it has the sweep issue.
Main board: 00.08
RF board: 00.05
Digital board: 00.04
F/W Ver: 00.01.09
Boot Ver: 00.01 04

TEquipment directed me to call Rigol. Steve @ Rigol was unaware of what I described but called back a few hours later after researching. What he told me on the phone is summed up in his email to me:

"Hello Garnet,

I found some detail on the power sweep issue.

We are expecting a fix for this soon in firmware. I don't have all the details on this yet but there seems to be a combination of firmware and hardware versions that impact power sweep.

Was this analyzer purchased in the last 30 days? Please email back the serial number when you have a chance.

Best regards,

Steve Huss"

He assigned me a case number and stated he would keep me informed. I trust this will be helpful to those interested,

Garnet
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Howardlong on March 04, 2015, 09:15:21 pm
As to the power sweep issue. My SA arrived this morning and one of the first things I did was confirm...

He assigned me a case number and stated he would keep me informed. I trust this will be helpful to those interested,


Indeed, thank you for the update. The description regarding a hardware version specific fault would make sense.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: N8AUM on March 04, 2015, 10:52:22 pm
TEquipment directed me to call Rigol. Steve @ Rigol was unaware of what I described but called back a few hours later after researching.

Thats funny, Back in early part of January Steve from Rigol asked me to send a screen shot of the power sweep not working DUH !
When someone figures out how to send something that isnt there, pls let me know !
Any ways, I sent him a screen shot with power sweep enabled, +10db. Next day he wrote me and told me to send it back for an exchange.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Wall-E on March 05, 2015, 12:14:53 am
Re. Post 567, 568, and 569:  The Key here is that name removed at Rigol (email removed ) is UNAWARE, was UNAWARE 3 months ago, will still be UNAWARE 3 months from now, and is Fully Incompetent.  Ask him about any of the Rigol equipment and you will find out that he's not that familiar with it, or Simply UNAWARE.  Rigol has enough problems with their firmware booming out years after product release, and them they have guys like name removed in Product Support.  What are they thinking?  They essentially have very nice affordable products and then they screw it all up with Lingering and New (when they make a little hardware change) Firmware issues, and a UNAWARE Product Support Specialist. 

Post modified due to personal nature of post
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: N8AUM on March 05, 2015, 12:49:42 am
Re. Post 567, 568, and 569:  The Key here is that name removed at Rigol (email removed) is UNAWARE, was UNAWARE 3 months ago, will still be UNAWARE 3 months from now, and is Fully Incompetent.  Ask him about any of the Rigol equipment and you will find out that he's not that familiar with it, or Simply UNAWARE.  Rigol has enough problems with their firmware booming out years after product release, and them they have guys like name removed in Product Support.  What are they thinking?  They essentially have very nice affordable products and then they screw it all up with Firmware issues and a UNAWARE Product Support Specialist.

Good one !!!   :-//

Post modified due to the personal nature of this post.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: N8AUM on March 06, 2015, 01:43:49 am
My new replacement 815-TG came in today and the power sweep is NOT functioning. Not a big deal but handy feature to have. This unit seems to be from this last batch that came in several weeks ago.
Option 3 was not enabled  :'( but the rest of the options have 34 hrs left.

system info is:

Main Board: 00.08
RF Board FPGA: 00.05
Digital Board FPGA: 00.04
Firmware 00.01.09
Boot:00.01.04

I sure hope someone is working on option 3 !
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Zucca on March 06, 2015, 06:34:27 am
... is NOT functioning..

I give them 40 days to fix it. If there will be not a new FW, I will never buy a Rigol again.
A pissed off customer which thinks never go cheap again.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: N8AUM on March 06, 2015, 01:13:53 pm
... is NOT functioning..

I give them 40 days to fix it. If there will be not a new FW, I will never buy a Rigol again.
A pissed off customer which thinks never go cheap again.

I dont understand how so many units can make it past their final testing unless they figure that not to many people will be using that function. I am new to Rigol products and own 2 DS1102E and the 815 and for the money they are a great deal. I hope that its just FW and not a hardware issue. To bad that my unit has the latest bootloader so I cannot try any of the previous versions.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: thebobster on March 06, 2015, 04:30:26 pm
Please be kind and take this as a legitimate question/concern.   Rigol has a 3 year warranty, which is void if you make any mods, such as the mod to "stop the clock" on trial keys.   If, within 3 years, the device breaks, what do you do???

I understand the advantages of making the mod, but am trying to decide if the features gained are worth the risk of having a device that is no longer under warranty.

Pros?  Cons?   Maybe something I haven't considered?

As far as changes/improvements, though confusing from a test/compatibility prospective, you have to give Rigol credit that they are continuing to change and improve their product after release, though the variables with hardware and firmware versions can be difficult to manage.

As far as posts that are anonymous personal attacks against specific individuals in support, does that really add value and is it fair?    What is someone posted your real name and similar criticisms on public forums?   How would you feel?

Because of the sheer size of Rigol's products under support, is it really fair for us to expect a support person to be a Subject Matter Expert (SME) on every product, and to label someone as "UNAWARE" because they are trying to help you and were not a SME on the particular product you are calling about? Ref http://www.rigolna.com/products/ (http://www.rigolna.com/products/)

Would you say it using your REAL NAME and to the person's face?   

It is easy to criticize people anonymously online, but it doesn't make it right, fair or helpful, or being a community to conduct civil discourse.

Now I fully expect some anonymous flaming by some tech-trolls, which will only serve to prove my point...

If you intend to do so, please take a minute to think about what I said before you do.

Is it right, fair and helpful, and if it were done to you, how would you feel?

Is it worth clouding every constructive post you ever made, or will make in the future with a record of abusive posts, where people attribute it as coming from a jerk who might launch an attack against you if they don't like what you say?   



Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: saturation on March 07, 2015, 04:14:01 pm
If you truly need any SA for a particular task, hacking risks bricking, and thus the task to be done, is not done.  If a new purchase device fails to meet your measurement task OOB make sure you use a vendor that accepts returns for a full refund.

OTAH, if one is evaluating new pieces of equipment for its own sake, say to add to your lab, bricking it is part of the game of hacking, if hacking is part of what you do during evaluation.   Thus, without an actual need for a piece of gear, you can wait for it to be repaired or DIY if possible.

So in the end, it depends what the end use of the T&M gear purchase is for.

Note the warranty experience varies by country, so if you are not in a country with a Rigol rep, there may be no warranty to speak off.   So risking damaging a device that is effectively without warranty is a higher risk, regardless of its end purpose.

I only hack gear I can afford to lose, so hacking becomes pure gain to my use. 


Please be kind and take this as a legitimate question/concern.   Rigol has a 3 year warranty, which is void if you make any mods, such as the mod to "stop the clock" on trial keys.   If, within 3 years, the device breaks, what do you do???

I understand the advantages of making the mod, but am trying to decide if the features gained are worth the risk of having a device that is no longer under warranty.


Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: jimgeb on March 13, 2015, 06:28:09 am
Received my new Rigol DSA 815-TG. Power sweep failure also. Must be a bad batch from what I see on this forum. Probably don't need it but will contact Rigol to see when and if they will have a fix.  Thinking of returning it but maybe a big hassle unless something else comes up. Just a hobbyist learning about spectrum analyzers. I guess I shouldn't expect too much from an entry level piece of equipment.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: N8AUM on March 13, 2015, 07:57:48 am
Jim, welcome to the club. Sorry to hear that your power sweep function is not working. Seems that the problem sprung up with the latest hardware/firmware combo. Not sure when or if Rigol is working on solution or not. Personally I can live without PS function. You cant beat it for the price. Hope you enjoy playing with your new toy !
 
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: thebobster on March 13, 2015, 06:42:57 pm
Has anybody tried using a block down-converter to throw Wi-Fi Freqs into the freq range of the 815 so they can be monitored?   

If so, any recommendations on hardware?   I understand that it won't be frequency accurate nor the cleanest way to do it, and there will be the frequency conversion issues, noise, measurements would be uncalibrated etc etc...   This is mainly to point antennas etc.

Thanks!     
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: jimgeb on March 13, 2015, 08:04:17 pm
Steve Huss of Rigol got back to me today on the power sweep issue and he said, I quote:

" This is a bug we were just recently made aware of. It happened after a recent hardware update and will be corrected with the next firmware update. I don't know exactly when the new firmware will be available but it is a high priority item. I would check back by the end of the month".

Let's hope it gets corrected soon especially for the people who use this feature.
Jim
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: N8AUM on March 13, 2015, 08:45:59 pm
Has anybody tried using a block down-converter to throw Wi-Fi Freqs into the freq range of the 815 so they can be monitored?   

If so, any recommendations on hardware?   I understand that it won't be frequency accurate nor the cleanest way to do it, and there will be the frequency conversion issues, noise, measurements would be uncalibrated etc etc...   This is mainly to point antennas etc.

Thanks!   

I use a mixer and a 1Ghz Lo and the accuracy will depend on the Lo 
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Björn on March 24, 2015, 05:23:09 pm
Hi all,

Just found this great forum and this topic about the 815.
Maybe this has been passed many times, but I have some questions about the firmware.
And I want to absolutely be sure I am having it all understood right.
I was reading about the v1.09 and the v1.12 firmware.

My DSA has the v1.07 firmware with the v1.03 bootloader.
All features unlocked "forever"

1. Can I safely upgrade to v1.09 or v1.12? and will all my unlocked options still be available?
2. What version should I upgrade too?, from the rigol website I can only get the v1.12?
3. If I want to have the v1.09 where to get it?
4. Is there any website I can download older versions? to revert back?

Here is a screenshot of my system menu:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-bo4163ygabQ/VRGbrGL-JOI/AAAAAAAAMTc/Uzfi670I0RM/w800-h480-no/DSA815_20150324-181011.png)

Hope someone can point me out where to go and what to do..

73
Bjorn de PD5DJ
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: KD0RC on March 24, 2015, 11:00:38 pm

1. Can I safely upgrade to v1.09 or v1.12? and will all my unlocked options still be available?
2. What version should I upgrade too?, from the rigol website I can only get the v1.12?
3. If I want to have the v1.09 where to get it?
4. Is there any website I can download older versions? to revert back?

Hi Bjorn,
1. Yes and Yes.
2. I have 1.12 on mine and it is fine.
3 & 4. I don't know how to go back or get older versions.

Len
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on March 25, 2015, 01:45:52 am
Hi all,

Just found this great forum and this topic about the 815.
Maybe this has been passed many times, but I have some questions about the firmware.
And I want to absolutely be sure I am having it all understood right.
I was reading about the v1.09 and the v1.12 firmware.

My DSA has the v1.07 firmware with the v1.03 bootloader.
All features unlocked "forever"

1. Can I safely upgrade to v1.09 or v1.12? and will all my unlocked options still be available?
2. What version should I upgrade too?, from the rigol website I can only get the v1.12?
3. If I want to have the v1.09 where to get it?
4. Is there any website I can download older versions? to revert back?

Hope someone can point me out where to go and what to do..

73
Bjorn de PD5DJ

Bjorn:  As long as you have Boot Loader .03 you will be able to go to Firmware 00.0.12 and then go back in the future if need be.
Please see -> https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg513125/#msg513125 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg513125/#msg513125)  for how to go back to a previous firmware.  If you don't have all of the Options installed, Re. using Riglol 1.0c or d Keygenerator you should install any first if you are missing any.  And you are all set to install the Options with your Firmware 00.01.07.

You definitely should install firmware 00.01.12, as it includes all the latest improvements and updates.  Don't even bother with FW 00.01.09.  The 00.01.12 Firmware will retain your current .03 Boor Loader, so you will still be able to go back to an earlier Firmware if required.  Where as those with Boot Loader .04 that was added with the new Maim Board Hardware V. 07/08 in recent DSA815's are stuck, and they have what they have.  You are very fortunate that you don't have one of the newer DSA815s.

Read through these postings to understand more.  If you get lost, I will help you. . .  Just send me a EEVblog PM (personal message).
    Keygenerator ->  http://gotroot.ca/rigol/riglol-103d/ (http://gotroot.ca/rigol/riglol-103d/)
    Firmware Request ->  http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/form/1579/0012:d-0001/1/index.htm?id=0012, (http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/form/1579/0012:d-0001/1/index.htm?id=0012,)
          Good Luck, Ted
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Björn on March 25, 2015, 12:03:01 pm
Hi Ed and Len

Thanks for the kind reply :)

I will perform the update tonight, and will let you guys know how it went.

 :-+

--- Edit ---

And the rig is updated, no problems at all, all went smoothly.. :)

Thanks!!!
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: coflynn on March 27, 2015, 12:04:16 am
Just as a note, I successfully performed the update to 01.12 with fairly old HW/bootloader, my versions were as follows:

 Version of Main Board: 00.01
Version of Radio Frequency Board FPGA: 00.05
Version of Firmware: 00.01.07
Version of Boot: 00.01.01

Only reporting as most of the posts had more recent main boards or bootloaders!

EDIT: This didn't affect the status of licenses either.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on March 27, 2015, 10:16:07 am
Will that keygen work with the 832 series??
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: johnny_canuck on April 03, 2015, 02:05:08 am
Is the firmware V 1.12 posted anywhere? I've requested it from Rigol twice now with no response from them.

Ken
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Björn on April 03, 2015, 07:24:29 pm
Is the firmware V 1.12 posted anywhere? I've requested it from Rigol twice now with no response from them.

Ken

Hi Ken

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nadk0tpyd0gfkoh/AABk-mhGabX0qBBpksZC4mrRa?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nadk0tpyd0gfkoh/AABk-mhGabX0qBBpksZC4mrRa?dl=0)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: jamessawle on April 04, 2015, 01:06:49 am
OK, I think I know the answer to this anyway, but would like it confirmed by anyone much wiser than I.

I have a DSA815-TG with the following spec:

Serial: DSA8A1622xxxxx
Main Board Version: 00.07
Version of Radio Frequency Board FPGA: 0.05
Version of Digital Board FPGA: 0.04
Version of Firmware: 00.01.09
Version of Boot: 00.01.04

My question is thus:

1. Is this at all downgradable to what ever version I can unlock the features on (00.01.07 or 00.01.08)?
2. If so does anyone have the relevant Firmware anywhere?

Heres being hopeful.....

James
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: N8AUM on April 04, 2015, 03:33:17 am
OK, I think I know the answer to this anyway, but would like it confirmed by anyone much wiser than I.

I have a DSA815-TG with the following spec:

Serial: DSA8A1622xxxxx
Main Board Version: 00.07
Version of Radio Frequency Board FPGA: 0.05
Version of Digital Board FPGA: 0.04
Version of Firmware: 00.01.09
Version of Boot: 00.01.04

My question is thus:

1. Is this at all downgradable to what ever version I can unlock the features on (00.01.07 or 00.01.08)?
2. If so does anyone have the relevant Firmware anywhere?

Heres being hopeful.....

James

Bootloader 1.04 will not allow anything prior to firmware 1.12 so unfortunately your stuck. Is anyone trying to work out a solution ?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: g8bnr on April 04, 2015, 05:56:34 am
Hi,
I have found an alternative method for downgrading the firmware, my boot loader is version 00.02, so it may not work for you, but worth a go.

Put the firmware .sys file onto a USB stick with nothing else. With Power OFF, insert the stick. Power ON, when the boot from UDisk message appears in lower left corner, immediately, press the GREEN 'Preset' button. The firmware should load from the stick.

I used this to downgrade from V1.12 to V1.06 on my unit.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: jamessawle on April 04, 2015, 07:47:56 am
Where do I find firmware 0.07?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: g8bnr on April 04, 2015, 08:25:31 am
Send me an email address and I will send it to you.
73 Dick
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: jamessawle on April 04, 2015, 11:03:22 am
Just for the fun of it I tried to downgrade it with 00.01.07 but all I got was:

 Testing u-Disk (Please insert U-Disk)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: N8AUM on April 04, 2015, 01:19:49 pm
Having bootloader 1.04 I can only load 1.09 or 1.12. If I try 1.07 I get "Failed...(Read DSA800 Series UpdateFile Error"

I downloaded 1.07 from somewhere from here but maybe I have corrupted file ? Can someone who has known working 1.07 please send me a copy at n8aum at yahoo dot com
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Teneyes on April 04, 2015, 09:18:19 pm
Hi,
I have found an alternative method for downgrading the firmware, my boot loader is version 00.02, so it may not work for you, but worth a go.
.....
I used this to downgrade from V1.12 to V1.06 on my unit.

Yes you have Old Boot Loader , which is important
Boot Loader 1.04 is the Boot that Stops  going back to older FW
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: jamessawle on April 04, 2015, 09:32:50 pm
Yep, Defiantly does not work! looks like I have to fork out £500 for something that I will use maybe just twice a month....

Is someone working on a new KeyGen for this do we know?

Till then Fingers Crossed...

Thanks a lot for those that sent me the two firmwares to test, much appreciated.

James
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: johnny_canuck on April 05, 2015, 06:41:08 pm
On the Rigol Corporate web site (http://www.rigol.com/prodserv/DSA875/document/ (http://www.rigol.com/prodserv/DSA875/document/)) there's a new User's Guide, released March 12 2015.
They state that it's applicable to instruments with firmware revision 00.01.13.
Does anyone know of an imminent update?

Ken
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on April 05, 2015, 07:33:34 pm
That link only has Chinese characters.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on April 05, 2015, 10:52:00 pm
Re. The new DSA815 User Guide, March 2015, for Firmware 00.01.13 (with a fix for the Newer DSA815-TGs with Main Board Ver. 7 or 8, for Power Sweep mode, etc.):
 
Go to: http://www.rigolna.com/products/spectrum-analyzers/dsa800/dsa815/ (http://www.rigolna.com/products/spectrum-analyzers/dsa800/dsa815/)

Under [Documents] - Select (the PDF) 'DSA800 Series User's Guide'

Sign in with your information:  Select 'Submit', and it will down load for you.

Or just go directly to ->  http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/attachment/1579/f-0503/1/-/-/-/-/DSA800_UserGuide.pdf (http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/attachment/1579/f-0503/1/-/-/-/-/DSA800_UserGuide.pdf)  and it is yours!

    Ted

PS    Firmware 00.01.13 may still NOT be available as of today, Apr. 6, 2015 (I haven't seen it yet).  Hopefully it will be released soon (?).
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: N8AUM on April 06, 2015, 10:36:45 pm
From the latest users manual "Do Not Operate in an Explosive Atmosphere"
well damn, kind of takes the fun out of it !
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: XFDDesign on April 06, 2015, 10:57:14 pm
From the latest users manual "Do Not Operate in an Explosive Atmosphere"
well damn, kind of takes the fun out of it !

It must be sparking inside, and so one should avoid eating beans and/or cabbage.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: g8bnr on April 08, 2015, 10:20:18 am
Has any genius found a way for the V1.04 boot loader to be changed to V1.02? This would resolve a lot of people's issues. I am lucky my unit uses V1.02 boot loader.

Dick
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Gunb on April 08, 2015, 07:18:02 pm
Has any genius found a way for the V1.04 boot loader to be changed to V1.02? This would resolve a lot of people's issues. I am lucky my unit uses V1.02 boot loader.

Dick

It might depend on the hardware, i.e., it's not automatically said that an older bootloader works fine with recent hardware.

Mine is 1.02 but flashed fw V1.12. Bought my DSA815-TG years ago. Think the bootloader will stay at V1.02 since V1.04 only works with newer hardware where option keys do not work anymore.
Vice versa it might mean the above, that recent DSAs can't be reflashed with V1.02 working reliable.

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: KD0RC on April 11, 2015, 02:21:10 pm
I have a question about a Return Loss Bridge result.  A 50 ohm resistive load shows a loss of 39.41 dB.  An antenna shows 44.51 dB at its resonant point.  So in a 50 ohm antenna system, how can the antenna show more loss that the 50 ohm resistive load?  The feedline to the antenna is about 6 feet of RG-58. The antenna is J-Pole tuned to 145.6 MHz.

The yellow trace is the antenna and the purple trace is the 50 ohm resistor.

Thanks,
Len
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Howardlong on April 12, 2015, 08:22:12 pm
Could be a number of things, innacuracy in the return loss bridge, in the termination, cable/feeder.

When doing this stuff on a VNA rather than a scalar analysis on an SA with a return loss bridge, typically it will be cal'd at the point you're trying to measure, with a short, open and load. Corrections can then be made for any innacuracies. Some of those cal kits can cost more than an SA.

That plot looks reasonable enough if it's for 144-148MHz.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: hammy on April 12, 2015, 08:46:20 pm
I have a question about a Return Loss Bridge result. ...

Do you followed the procedure in the manual about "VSWR" on page 2-51 and 2-52 ?

Cheers
hammy
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: KD0RC on April 13, 2015, 02:53:34 am
Thanks for the response Howard.  For my purposes, it is fine but I expected the 'best' point to be defined by the 50 ohm terminator and was surprised to see over 5 dB more return loss at the resonant point of the antenna.  It feels like there is something else going on that I don't have an understanding of...  Accuracy of the RLB should not be a factor becaus this is a relative measurement between the 50 ohm terminator and the antenna - right?  The terminator measures 50.06 ohms on my BM 869 meter so I think that would not be off enough to matter.  I swapped cables, but the results were the same.  Could there be some other reactance happening that could cause this?  In other words, since this is a SA and not a VNA (and therefore I don't see the reactance vector), if I am not at 50 - j0 but some other reactive value, could it show a higher return loss than the 50 ohm resistive load?  (RF does mystify me sometimes...)

Hi Hammy, I normalized, then put the 50 ohm terminator on to get the purple trace, and then the antenna to get the yellow trace. I get the same results when I use the VSWR function.  For this screen shot, it was easier to just show the return loss directly insteadof invoking the VSWR function.

Len
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Ivan7enych on April 13, 2015, 10:58:45 am
As I understand, the non-ideal bridge outputs some -40dB signal even when there's no reflection. And the reflection from the antenna can make sum or difference (depending on phase) with this bridge signal, making total output larger or lower.

You can add some cable between antenna and SWR bridge (to change antenna reflection phase), and compare the results. -35dB and higher should be almost the same, -35 and lower - can be very different.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: K5HJ on April 13, 2015, 06:46:02 pm
That is the nature of the bridge circuit. There will always be some load on the unknown port that will produce a return loss approaching -infinity dB. Just how far it will go depends on losses in the bridge itself.
Your antenna has just enough reactance to make the bridge happier than the 50 Ohm resistor. Down at these levels, it really doesn't matter.

Randy
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Mark on April 14, 2015, 09:44:07 am
OK so I just bought a DSA815-TG as I looked at the price rises on the Batronix website.  I am keen to learn about RF amplifiers and antenna theory, but for now, I will be using the DSA815 to do EMC pre-compliance testing. 

A question about the Tekbox TBPS01-TBWA2 probe set, which comes with either 20dB or 40dB wideband amplifier.  Which one should I go for?  40dB is more expensive.  Would I find the the 20dB amp limiting when using these probes?  I have only ever used home-made H and E field probes with the spectrum analyser setting on an oscilloscope. 

Can the amp be used with anything else, say an wideband antenna for radiated emissions checking? 

http://www.saelig.com/product/M00154003.htm (http://www.saelig.com/product/M00154003.htm)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: coflynn on April 14, 2015, 10:28:22 am
I bought that probe set w/o the amp, and just enable the preamplifier in the DSA815 (also ensure input attenuation is set to 0dB).
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on April 14, 2015, 05:10:09 pm
A question about the Tekbox TBPS01-TBWA2 probe set, which comes with either 20dB or 40dB wideband amplifier.  Which one should I go for?  40dB is more expensive.  Would I find the the 20dB amp limiting when using these probes?  I have only ever used home-made H and E field probes with the spectrum analyser setting on an oscilloscope. 
http://www.saelig.com/product/M00154003.htm (http://www.saelig.com/product/M00154003.htm)
I have the 40dB amplifier, and firmly believe that it is the preferred choice.  To track down closer to an EMC source you will be using the narrow aperture H-Field probe and you will often need the amplifier, and the 40 dB is very beneficial.   By the way the amplifiers are powered from the DSA815's front panel USB connector (5 VDC).  And yes you can conveniently use the amplifier for other applications with the DSA, etc.  You will often use the amplifier along with the DSA815's internal preamplifier.  If you look at the loss through the probes (see Tekbox EMC manual) you will appreciate why the amplifier is required.  I don't even think of it as an option.  Although if you are just now learning about Spectrum Analyzers, you may want to postpone the Amplifier for now.
You can buy other Amplifiers for less, but they may NOT work off of the DSA815's USB supplied 5 VDC.  The full EMC Probe Set comes with all required cables and a Amplifier in a very nice Wooden Storage Box, with room for the included (Probes'/Amplifier's) Calibration Data Sheets.
http://www.amazon.com/Tekbox-TBPS01-Near-Field-Wideband-Amplifier/dp/B00OD57L4G/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1429194773&sr=8-3&keywords=tekbox+emc+probes (http://www.amazon.com/Tekbox-TBPS01-Near-Field-Wideband-Amplifier/dp/B00OD57L4G/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1429194773&sr=8-3&keywords=tekbox+emc+probes)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/EMC-Near-Field-Probe-Set-40dB-Wideband-Amplifier-Tekbox-Digital-Solutions-/191380693870?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c8f2da36e (http://www.ebay.com/itm/EMC-Near-Field-Probe-Set-40dB-Wideband-Amplifier-Tekbox-Digital-Solutions-/191380693870?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c8f2da36e)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Mark on April 17, 2015, 11:44:23 am
Thanks ted, I had already purchased the 20dB amp with the kit just before you posted, too late to change it!  Nevermind, I will probably end up buying a 40dB amp if I need one in the future. 

Not sure what I will do about the DSA815 options, mine has bootloader 1.04.  Thinking I'll take the risk and modify the eeprom pins on the PCB before my time runs out.   
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on April 17, 2015, 10:12:55 pm
Thanks ted, I had already purchased the 20dB amp with the kit just before you posted, too late to change it!  Nevermind, I will probably end up buying a 40dB amp if I need one in the future. 

Not sure what I will do about the DSA815 options, mine has bootloader 1.04.  Thinking I'll take the risk and modify the eeprom pins on the PCB before my time runs out.

My suggestion is:  Don't think about it, Just Do It!  I feel that everyone with BootLoader .04 should do it immediately when they get their new DSA815.  Otherwise the real RISK is that you may never have access to the Option without spending $2000+ more.
1. Watch the video on the Security Seal Removal.  http://youtube.com/watch?v=KGcNS5g9ygg (http://youtube.com/watch?v=KGcNS5g9ygg)
Hint: If you add some heat from an electric Hair Dryer it will almost lift off by itself.  Even if you damage the Seal (unlikely), the chances of ever needing DSA815 a Warranty repair is also very unlikely.
2. Solder U1105 pins 7 and 8 together (It can easily be UNDONE with Solder Wick {and PCB Solder Rosen Cleaner} if you need to do so in the future).
* At this time the possibility of a New Generation Riglol Kegen doesn't look very likely for the newer DSA815 Hardware. *   Although maybe someone will take this as a challenge and come up with one(?).  But, don't count on it!
We know that the Trial Options count down while the DSA is powered up, and then the Trial Time gets reset where it was, on the next Power ON state.  But what if the Trial Options TIME OUT and go to ZERO(?).  Does the unit still reset the Trial Options when you Power On again?  We hope so, and maybe, but I haven't heard of anyone testing this scenario.  In any case; the more time that is left on the options, leaves more room for experimenting, etc. in the future when it may be very critical.
And then when the newer Firmware is released for the DSA815, wait for it to be verified Ok before installing it, to make sure that it doesn’t include a new check for U1105’s normal operation (without pins 7 and 8 connected).
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: nixfu on April 18, 2015, 02:28:32 am
Frankly, if Rigol makes it so you can't enable the options, then they basically have made it so there is no reason to chose their SA over a used HP etc.. 

I can easily find a good used Agilent, or Tek SA that has features like SWR/Vector Analyzer features built-in cheaper than the DS815-TG + a $500 add-on.

Thats fine if what they want, but the hobbiest, and ham radio user market will probably go back to used gear instead.   Frankly some of the HP/Agilent gear even performs better to begin with.

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Mark on April 21, 2015, 08:18:07 am
Any news on a new firmware version from those in contact with Rigol?  Mine has the power sweep issue, although I'm not sure if I'll need that feature or not in the future. 
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: XFDDesign on April 22, 2015, 04:37:04 pm
Frankly, if Rigol makes it so you can't enable the options, then they basically have made it so there is no reason to chose their SA over a used HP etc.. 

I can easily find a good used Agilent, or Tek SA that has features like SWR/Vector Analyzer features built-in cheaper than the DS815-TG + a $500 add-on.

Thats fine if what they want, but the hobbiest, and ham radio user market will probably go back to used gear instead.   Frankly some of the HP/Agilent gear even performs better to begin with.

I'm actually sitting on the fence, trying to figure out if i shouldn't just sell my DSA815 and go buy a used HP. Measuring phase noise is difficult, it's even harder when the SpecAn only has ~70dB dynamic range due to its own synthesizer. Plus, it's an extra $380 for the GPIB adapter...
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: N8AUM on April 22, 2015, 06:17:43 pm
Frankly, if Rigol makes it so you can't enable the options, then they basically have made it so there is no reason to chose their SA over a used HP etc.. 

I can easily find a good used Agilent, or Tek SA that has features like SWR/Vector Analyzer features built-in cheaper than the DS815-TG + a $500 add-on.

Thats fine if what they want, but the hobbiest, and ham radio user market will probably go back to used gear instead.   Frankly some of the HP/Agilent gear even performs better to begin with.

I'm actually sitting on the fence, trying to figure out if i shouldn't just sell my DSA815 and go buy a used HP. Measuring phase noise is difficult, it's even harder when the SpecAn only has ~70dB dynamic range due to its own synthesizer. Plus, it's an extra $380 for the GPIB adapter...

What options are on it and how much do you want for it if you decide to sell ?

73 Vidas
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: XFDDesign on April 22, 2015, 06:32:53 pm
What options are on it and how much do you want for it if you decide to sell ?
73 Vidas

Everything but the EMI, including the 10Hz RBW, as to price, eh I'd have to see what the going reasonable prices are (i.e. not ebay's "used" units costing near MSRP). I'll PM you if/when I get around to selling it to see if you're still interested.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on April 22, 2015, 09:08:23 pm
XFDDesign;
Which Hp were you looking at? Have you considered something new? A Rigol 1030A or a 832 if you have the coin? There is also the Instek 9300 at around $2500 less than the 832 with similar specs.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Electro Fan on April 22, 2015, 11:53:08 pm
XFDDesign;
Which Hp were you looking at? Have you considered something new? A Rigol 1030A or a 832 if you have the coin? There is also the Instek 9300 at around $2500 less than the 832 with similar specs.

It's a tough decision; for the price of a 1030A (and definitely an 832) you are in the realm of a fair amount of bandwidth with an 856XE or EC, or maybe even a 44XXB with some good options.  On the other hand new with a warranty is cool too.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: XFDDesign on April 23, 2015, 12:51:17 am
XFDDesign;
Which Hp were you looking at? Have you considered something new? A Rigol 1030A or a 832 if you have the coin? There is also the Instek 9300 at around $2500 less than the 832 with similar specs.

Thinking more HP 8594E. It might be used, but it has GPIB built in and a better Dynamic range.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on April 23, 2015, 10:17:38 am
The "sleeper" is GW's Instek's GSP-9300 (3 GHz coverage) which is the original GSP-930 with all the software applications included and a faster boot time. It can be had around $5700 w/ the TG. The preamp is standard and it has a battery option that the 832 does not. You can get the 832 w/TG for around $7700.
The $2k difference makes it attractive, but Instek's support sucks which could be a deal killer. Rigol is far better, but surely not at the level of any of the US based manufactures. Not even close.

There was a guy on e-Bay selling 'no boot up' 930's for less than $700 (no TG). He had four of them. For $250 for the repair and $270 DHL shipping to/from China $520 total, Instek will repair the scope which makes that a excellent deal (if you don't want the TG). You can get them to install the TG for around $1500 and the $270 shipping (no repair charge). The specs on the 832 are somewhat better in a couple of parameters, but not earth shaking (AFAIC), especially for the $2k price difference.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on May 22, 2015, 10:08:30 pm
There was some discussion )with a link) with this guys software  almost a year ago for screen capture using a PC. He has updated his software. The site is German;
http://peter.dreisiebner.at/rigol-bildschirmkopie-lan/ (http://peter.dreisiebner.at/rigol-bildschirmkopie-lan/)

There has been five updates since last summer.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: johnny_canuck on May 26, 2015, 12:19:41 am
Re. The new DSA815 User Guide, March 2015, for Firmware 00.01.13 (with a fix for the Newer DSA815-TGs with Main Board Ver. 7 or 8, for Power Sweep mode, etc.):
 
Go to: http://www.rigolna.com/products/spectrum-analyzers/dsa800/dsa815/ (http://www.rigolna.com/products/spectrum-analyzers/dsa800/dsa815/)

Under [Documents] - Select (the PDF) 'DSA800 Series User's Guide'

Sign in with your information:  Select 'Submit', and it will down load for you.

Or just go directly to ->  http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/attachment/1579/f-0503/1/-/-/-/-/DSA800_UserGuide.pdf (http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/attachment/1579/f-0503/1/-/-/-/-/DSA800_UserGuide.pdf)  and it is yours!

    Ted

PS    Firmware 00.01.13 may still NOT be available as of today, Apr. 6, 2015 (I haven't seen it yet).  Hopefully it will be released soon (?).
DOES ANYONE KNOW IF 1.13 HAS BEEN RELEASED?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Melt-O-Tronic on May 26, 2015, 05:35:33 am
According to Rigol, the latest version at the moment is 1.12.

http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/form/1579/0012:d-0001/1/index.htm (http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/form/1579/0012:d-0001/1/index.htm)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on May 30, 2015, 12:03:15 pm
Is the options key case sensitive?
Are the hyphens necessary? If so, how do you enter them?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Wall-E on July 01, 2015, 02:40:25 pm
Is the options key case sensitive?
Are the hyphens necessary? If so, how do you enter them?
NO, Option characters are NOT case sensitive.
Hyphens are NOT to be entered.  Enter on single string of characters without hyphens or spaces.
Do not put or leave any spaces in the keygen entries.
See this PDF for how to enter the Options into the DSA815: http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/attachment/1579/f-01a7/0/-/-/-/-/file.pdf (http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/attachment/1579/f-01a7/0/-/-/-/-/file.pdf)

You have been hanging out here for a long time now, and I would have thought that you would have seen and known all this.
Bruce, have you been watching too many videos?

   Good Luck, Your friend Wall-E
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: TheSteve on July 03, 2015, 06:29:11 am
Received my 815-TG today from tequipment today. Cal was done March 14, 2015 of this year. Rather surprised it wasn't double boxed(my Rigol DS1054Z was).

Main board: 00:08
RF Frequency board FPGA: 00:05
Digital Board FPGA: 00:05
Firmware: 00:01:12
Version of Boot: 00:01:04

Now, who wants to work on hacking the newest version with me?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: N8AUM on July 03, 2015, 06:46:49 am
Congrats on your new toy !
Judging from your cal date you must have the latest shipment. Can you try the power sweep function to see if they fixed the problem or not and if the RBW will only go down to 100Hz? Also curious how much time is left on on the trails. I had 32hrs remaining on mine before I did the hardware mod.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: TheSteve on July 03, 2015, 07:56:42 am
Congrats on your new toy !
Judging from your cal date you must have the latest shipment. Can you try the power sweep function to see if they fixed the problem or not and if the RBW will only go down to 100Hz? Also curious how much time is left on on the trails. I had 32hrs remaining on mine before I did the hardware mod.

Power Sweep does not appear to do anything when enabled. RBW is 100 Hz minimum. My trials had just under 36 hours on them at first power up. I expect I will "lock" the trials in with around 34 to 35 hours remaining after a little more testing. They must have powered yours up, tested it and then gone for a long lunch before powering down and boxing it up.
Shame my directional coupler hasn't arrived yet...

And yes, this is a great toy!
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: fqahmad66 on July 03, 2015, 11:13:56 am
Measuring Low level Phase noise using DSA815-TG.

The article is in Germen. Is there an English ver. available?

Regards
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: pa3bca on July 03, 2015, 11:20:48 am
The article is in Germen. Is there an English ver. available?
Almost... it's Dutch  :)
No English translation found, but Google translate might work?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Gertjan on July 03, 2015, 12:55:26 pm
I also received a new DSA815-TG last week. (from Conrad in Germany)
But cal. date on mine was April 09th, 2015.

Version of Main Board: 00.08
Version of Radio Frequency Board FPGA: 00.05
Version of Digital Board FPGA: 00.05
Version of Firmware: 00.01.12
Version of Boot: 00.01.04

- RBW goes down to 100Hz
- Power Sweep does not seem to function (but did not look very deep into it)

I soldered a thin wire across pin 7 and 8 from U1105, and the remaining time on the options is fixed to 24 hours.
Works like a charm!

Very happy with the log frequency scale in the latest firmware!

regards, Gertjan.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on July 03, 2015, 10:42:05 pm
English translation of 'Measuring Low level Phase noise using DSA815-TG' in Dutch from 'fqahmad66' in his Reply (Post) #634 above (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg703754/#msg703754 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg703754/#msg703754)).  Of course there may be some errors in this document because I do not understand the Dutch language.  I used the Goggle language translation tool for this task.  Feel free to edit and re-post the PDF yourself, or if you prefer to give me feedback for corrections, I will edit the file and re-post it.  In any case I hope this is found to be of value to some users in the group.  At least we can appreciate the basics for performing Phase Noise measurements way beyond the capability of the DSA815 by itself.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: smgvbest on July 04, 2015, 05:28:37 am
Now, who wants to work on hacking the newest version with me?

I'll give it a go
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: dadler on July 04, 2015, 05:38:28 am
Received my 815-TG today from tequipment today. Cal was done March 14, 2015 of this year. Rather surprised it wasn't double boxed(my Rigol DS1054Z was).

Main board: 00:08
RF Frequency board FPGA: 00:05
Digital Board FPGA: 00:05
Firmware: 00:01:12
Version of Boot: 00:01:04

Now, who wants to work on hacking the newest version with me?

My first, with defective display, was double-boxed.

The replacement, with higher SN, came single boxed. Go figure.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: TheSteve on July 04, 2015, 07:01:31 am
OK, my FRAM is now in stasis - instead of soldering it I used some bare 30 AWG wire and twisted it around pins 7 and 8. The wire is soft enough it will stretch just slightly when under tension and stay very tight. I verified it is working and will check it now and then just to be 100% sure. Still have 35 + hours left.

So now to the option keys. Here is what I am thinking, if Rigol decided they wanted the DSA815 to actually be secure they will have picked a new private/public key pair that can't be easily reversed. If that is the case then I'd say we're sunk without serious further effort. On the other hand perhaps they just changed the option codes themselves. They did do that with the DP832 after all.  At this point I think we can ignore the bootloader version and just focus on the firmware version as whatever changes they made occurred before they updated the bootloader. Either way we need a JTAG dump to even have a shot at figuring it out. I was hoping to get someone to send me a JTAG dump from an older version but no PM's I've sent have been replied to at this point. I don't currently have any JTAG hardware but am willing to buy it and dump my DSA815 but it would be nice to study an older version to see where the keys and option codes are sitting in ram before looking at the new version. I shall now research the best/cheapest JTAG interface to get for the job. I welcome any and all discussion.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: fqahmad66 on July 04, 2015, 02:01:51 pm
English translation of 'Measuring Low level Phase noise using DSA815-TG' in Dutch from 'fqahmad66' in his Reply (Post) #634 above (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg703754/#msg703754 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg703754/#msg703754)).  Of course there may be some errors in this document because I do not understand the Dutch language.  I used the Goggle language translation tool for this task.  Feel free to edit and re-post the PDF yourself, or if you prefer to give me feedback for corrections, I will edit the file and re-post it.  In any case I hope this is found to be of value to some users in the group.  At least we can appreciate the basics for performing Phase Noise measurements way beyond the capability of the DSA815 by itself.

Very Nice. Thanks
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: smgvbest on July 04, 2015, 05:10:14 pm
OK, my FRAM is now in stasis - instead of soldering it I used some bare 30 AWG wire and twisted it around pins 7 and 8. The wire is soft enough it will stretch just slightly when under tension and stay very tight. I verified it is working and will check it now and then just to be 100% sure. Still have 35 + hours left.

So now to the option keys. Here is what I am thinking, if Rigol decided they wanted the DSA815 to actually be secure they will have picked a new private/public key pair that can't be easily reversed. If that is the case then I'd say we're sunk without serious further effort. On the other hand perhaps they just changed the option codes themselves. They did do that with the DP832 after all.  At this point I think we can ignore the bootloader version and just focus on the firmware version as whatever changes they made occurred before they updated the bootloader. Either way we need a JTAG dump to even have a shot at figuring it out. I was hoping to get someone to send me a JTAG dump from an older version but no PM's I've sent have been replied to at this point. I don't currently have any JTAG hardware but am willing to buy it and dump my DSA815 but it would be nice to study an older version to see where the keys and option codes are sitting in ram before looking at the new version. I shall now research the best/cheapest JTAG interface to get for the job. I welcome any and all discussion.

Good Idea on the 30awg wire.
As for the work on hacking the keys.   it is possible the option codes where change, it's possible the keys where changed but as with the MSO1000Z they changed the algorithm somewhat I believe.  I tried doing the SCPI dump and running it through the current rigup and if could not find any information,  I don't know if the SCPI dump was bad though or it really couldn't find anything.

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: N8AUM on July 04, 2015, 08:25:49 pm
If I can help in some small way please let me know.
Can someone recommend the necessary Jtag hardware needed for you firmware gurus ?
My 815-TG was purchased this past January.

Main board: 00:08
RF Frequency board FPGA: 00:05
Digital Board FPGA: 00:05
Firmware: 00:01:12
Version of Boot: 00:01:04

73  N8AUM
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: jamesb on July 07, 2015, 12:38:10 am
Is there any chance someone has the latest firmware available for download somewhere?
I've emailed Rigol via their ridiculous "request" form every single day for the past week - no response. Talk about bad service!
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on July 07, 2015, 12:53:31 am
Is there any chance someone has the latest firmware available for download somewhere?
I've emailed Rigol via their ridiculous "request" form every single day for the past week - no response. Talk about bad service!
http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/ct/1579/s-0660-1505/Bct/l-3g32/l-3g32/ct3_0/1?sid=pwnRoPaTQ (http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/ct/1579/s-0660-1505/Bct/l-3g32/l-3g32/ct3_0/1?sid=pwnRoPaTQ)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: jamesb on July 07, 2015, 10:38:25 am
Thanks a ton, Ted!
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: DD4DA on July 07, 2015, 08:14:27 pm
1. Can I safely upgrade to v1.09 or v1.12? and will all my unlocked options still be available?

Yes

2. What version should I upgrade too?, from the rigol website I can only get the v1.12?

1.12.002 works pretty

3. If I want to have the v1.09 where to get it?
ask someone

4. Is there any website I can download older versions? to revert back?
nope


The most problems are related to the the newer hw version of the 815 and bootloader 1.04 that will unable to flash older versions of FW.
I absolutly sure that an older bootloader version like 1.2 will enables flashing older firmware with all possibilities they gives free.

dd4da

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: smgvbest on July 07, 2015, 11:20:05 pm
The most problems are related to the the newer hw version of the 815 and bootloader 1.04 that will unable to flash older versions of FW.
I absolutly sure that an older bootloader version like 1.2 will enables flashing older firmware with all possibilities they gives free.

dd4da

Curious,  flash using the boot loader doesn't work, has anyone tried to flash via JTAG to load the older boot loader so you can apply the codes then try a normal upgrade back to the current bootloader???
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Telonic on July 16, 2015, 12:06:52 pm
The power sweep issue has now been fixed! see video below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NGg7qlL334 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NGg7qlL334)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: tomlut on July 16, 2015, 02:08:24 pm
Minimum Loss 50 to 75 Ohm Matching Pad for Rigol DSA815-TG

How to make one, and why you might want to. . .
See PDF attachment:

Son of a b...! It still has a 50 Ohm termination when 75 Ohm is selected?

All afternoon I was trying to work out why my down converter 75 Ohm IF measurements weren't adding up. That'll teach me to not read the instructions. I have a 75-50 pad. Try again tomorrow.

Thanks for the heads up.

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Velund on July 16, 2015, 02:16:34 pm
Son of a b...! It still has a 50 Ohm termination when 75 Ohm is selected?

Yes, it just adjust displayed values for external minimum loss pad.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: jlmoon on July 16, 2015, 03:11:43 pm
Since following this thread for a while, I presume if today I order a New 815 it will arrive with the new firmware which will lock the unit from any clandestine hacks or option enablements.
 
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: dadler on July 16, 2015, 05:57:22 pm
Since following this thread for a while, I presume if today I order a New 815 it will arrive with the new firmware which will lock the unit from any clandestine hacks or option enablements.

This is extremely likely. I bought one in May from Tequipment and it already had the new, non-fun firmware and bootloader.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: N8AUM on July 17, 2015, 04:01:42 am
There's always the hardware mod but it has to be done BEFORE the clock runs out.

Has any one tried out the new firmware ?
I informed Rigol back in December about the power sweep bug, only took them 8 MONTHS to come up with fix !

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: mandigit on July 18, 2015, 10:13:16 am
Thanks for proposal about U1105. I have successfully connect 7,8 pins with resistor 680 Ohm. It's as phoenix bird!
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: dadler on July 18, 2015, 10:34:09 pm
The Rigol FW page still shows .12 as the latest firmware for the 815.

Anyone have the .13 firmware, as shown in the video above, that fixes the power sweep issue?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Skibane on July 22, 2015, 03:49:30 am
Thanks for proposal about U1105. I have successfully connect 7,8 pins with resistor 680 Ohm. It's as phoenix bird!

Is that like Darmok and Jalad, at Tanagra?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Velund on July 24, 2015, 03:26:04 am
Does anyone know, what does "Generate License" page on Rigol NA website (Home > Customer Center > Make License)? Fields to enter is "Key" "Serial Number".
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: tomlut on July 24, 2015, 03:30:47 am
It generates the licence number you use to unlock options like the Advanced Measurement functions. You get the key when you purchase a licence.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: smgvbest on July 25, 2015, 01:44:14 am
Thanks for proposal about U1105. I have successfully connect 7,8 pins with resistor 680 Ohm. It's as phoenix bird!

Is that like Darmok and Jalad, at Tanagra?

Love the reference and loved that episode
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: smgvbest on July 28, 2015, 11:54:35 pm
Does anyone have Hi-Res photo's of the DSA832 or DSA875's main board?
If not is anyone willing to open it up and gets some really good hi-res photo's of both sides of the PCB?

Thank you
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Skibane on July 29, 2015, 02:19:44 am
The Rigol FW page still shows .12 as the latest firmware for the 815.

Anyone have the .13 firmware, as shown in the video above, that fixes the power sweep issue?

My 815 was just delivered today (7/28), and still has the .12 firmware.

It came from TEquipment.net.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: fqahmad66 on July 29, 2015, 05:22:08 pm
Does anyone have Hi-Res photo's of the DSA832 or DSA875's main board?
If not is anyone willing to open it up and gets some really good hi-res photo's of both sides of the PCB?

Thank you

http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/261382 (http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/261382)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: smgvbest on July 29, 2015, 11:47:33 pm
Does anyone have Hi-Res photo's of the DSA832 or DSA875's main board?
If not is anyone willing to open it up and gets some really good hi-res photo's of both sides of the PCB?

Thank you

http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/261382 (http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/261382)

I see Hi-res photos of the 815 there but  but nothing of the DSA832 or DSA875
Am I missing it?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on July 29, 2015, 11:55:13 pm
DSA815 Spectrum Analyzer firmware 00.01.13 is now available from Rigol.
Firmware Release Notes for Version: 00.01.13.00.01, Release Date: 2015-07-13
1. Solve bug where the frequency is 500 MHz and PA on amplitude is greater than 1dB and causing PA off problem. M
2. Make compatible with the digital board for 09 version. E
3. Solve the power sweep bug where the trace is a straight line. M

    Edit: Added Firmware Release Notes.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: TheSteve on July 30, 2015, 01:55:00 am
DSA815 Spectrum Analyzer firmware 00.01.13 is now available from Rigol.
Firmware Release Notes for Version: 00.01.13.00.01, Release Date: 2015-07-13
1. Solve bug where the frequency is 500 MHz and PA on amplitude is greater than 1dB and causing PA off problem. M
2. Make compatible with the digital board for 09 version. E
3. Solve the power sweep bug where the trace is a straight line. M

    Edit: Added Firmware Release Notes.

Thanks for the info, only took them 8 months to fix the bug.
For me it was just too long and a sign they aren't serious about supporting it. I sold my 815 to a friend when I had to chance to pickup a used Agilent.  The Agilent went to 3 GHz when I got it and with a little "tweaking" now goes to 6 GHz including the tracking gen. Picked up the Agilent for the same price as the 815. The 815 is an incredible piece of hardware when you consider the price you get a brand new spectrum analyzer for though. I was looking forward to dumping the firmware via JTAG, guess it won't be happening now.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: radiogeek97 on July 30, 2015, 02:26:28 am
My Dsa has the pins soldered together to keep the trial add ons alive, i would be curious if anybody that has done that mod has tryied the new FW.  I dont want to loose my free trials
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: N8AUM on July 30, 2015, 03:20:27 am
My Dsa has the pins soldered together to keep the trial add ons alive, i would be curious if anybody that has done that mod has tryied the new FW.  I dont want to loose my free trials

I am waiting for you to try it 1st ! LOL
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: jimeagle on July 30, 2015, 04:07:12 am
I have a question about a Return Loss Bridge result.  A 50 ohm resistive load shows a loss of 39.41 dB.  An antenna shows 44.51 dB at its resonant point.  So in a 50 ohm antenna system, how can the antenna show more loss that the 50 ohm resistive load?  The feedline to the antenna is about 6 feet of RG-58. The antenna is J-Pole tuned to 145.6 MHz.

The yellow trace is the antenna and the purple trace is the 50 ohm resistor.

Thanks,
Len

What Randy said. 

The match looks better than the Return Loss of the Resistive Load because there is additional matching going on due to cable effects, phase effects, etc.  On a system that Calibrates to 39dB on a resistive load, any antenna that shows better than 20dB Return Loss is matched well enough.  Most products are specified to be better than 1.5:1 VSWR over their frequency range which is 14dB Return Loss.  Manufacturers will generally try to get around 18dB Return Loss just to make certain that the product meets spec but if your Antenna, Band Pass Filter input, LPF input, etc. shows at least 14-15dB Return Loss it is quite acceptable.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on July 30, 2015, 11:13:06 am
For DSA815 Firmware 00.01.13.00.01:  http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/attachment/1579/f-0580/1/-/-/-/-/DSA815%28DSP%29update_00.01.12.00.02.zip?sid=fTYU3cFT9 (http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/attachment/1579/f-0580/1/-/-/-/-/DSA815%28DSP%29update_00.01.12.00.02.zip?sid=fTYU3cFT9)

Don't worry this is 00.01.13, even though it may look like you will be downloading 00.01.12 firmware!
Re. Edit:  Removed a unnecessary comment about 00.01.12 vs. 00.01.13.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: N8AUM on July 30, 2015, 12:02:32 pm
So who wants to be the 1st to try the new 00.01.13 firmware ? 
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on July 30, 2015, 01:04:43 pm
So who wants to be the 1st to try the new 00.01.13 firmware ?

Firmware 00.01.13.00.01 works fine on the original DSA815/TG(s) with Boot-Loader .03.
Those with Boot-Loader .04 will have to try it out themselves.  There must be at least one brave sole out there to step up and be a Hero. . .
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on July 30, 2015, 05:07:02 pm
Using the DSA815-TG Power Sweep Mode:
I attached a PDF that I put together on what the the Power Sweep Mode can be used for, and how to get stated with it.  I did this because Rigol has never really covered this information in the manual that I'm aware of.  I had previously posted this here, and this is simply my latest edit.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: radiogeek97 on July 30, 2015, 05:58:59 pm
i have a .04 machine with the pins soldered for the trial period.  i just updated the FW and let the clock on the trial period run down about a minute or two shut the machine off and the counter reset  :phew:    so it seemes that the temp fix still works with the latest FW
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: mcinque on July 30, 2015, 06:58:16 pm
* At this time the possibility of a New Generation Riglol Kegen doesn't look very likely for the newer DSA815 Hardware. *

What's is changed exactly? It's a brand new key/license management?

Actually, on board 00.08 and boot 01.04, we can only short U1105 pins 7 and 8, like Gertjan said (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg703809/#msg703809) Can any other confirm this?

It should work also after installing 1.13 right?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: smgvbest on July 31, 2015, 01:36:29 am
* At this time the possibility of a New Generation Riglol Kegen doesn't look very likely for the newer DSA815 Hardware. *

What's is changed exactly? It's a brand new key/license management?

Actually, on board 00.08 and boot 01.04, we can only short U1105 pins 7 and 8, like Gertjan said (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg703809/#msg703809) Can any other confirm this?

It should work also after installing 1.13 right?

Yes,  Boot 01.04 you can only short U1105 Pins 7/8 and I just applied to my DSA815 and trials are still there working with the U1105 hack.

I want to expand on my request for Hi-Res Photo's of a DSA832
I want to examine the differences between a DSA815 and a DSA322 and/or DSA875 for one thing

Then does anyone have a memory dump of thier DSA815-TG with bootloader 1.03?
I want to compare the dumps of a DSA815-TG that had the keys created with rigup/riglol to a DSA815-TG that rigup/riglol doesnt work on.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: mcinque on July 31, 2015, 11:21:02 am
I want to compare the dumps of a DSA815-TG that had the keys created with rigup/riglol to a DSA815-TG that rigup/riglol doesnt work on.

That would be interesting. Do you know any specs about what's changed in the hardware to prevent riglol working? I guess it's NOT only a private key matter.

p.s. do you suggest to upgrade to 1.13 or to wait a few more?

And what do you think about the write protect enable trick on the FRAM: theoretically rigol can build an update that checks if the write pin it's soldered or not, for example, writing something during the upgrade and then checking the written value after a restart?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on July 31, 2015, 03:08:07 pm
i have a .04 machine with the pins soldered for the trial period.  i just updated the FW and let the clock on the trial period run down about a minute or two shut the machine off and the counter reset  :phew:    so it seemes that the temp fix still works with the latest FW
Congratulations on your discovery, and kudos to you for being brave enough to even try it.  You are the MAN!  I'm sure that there are several grateful users that are thankful to you. 
Have you tried using the 'Power Sweep' function to see if it works on your new hardware unit (with Boot-Loader 1.04)?
Title: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: mcinque on July 31, 2015, 03:49:05 pm
Yes, you are the man!

I wonder if this fix can be excluded with a new firmware or if this cannot be avoided even intentionally.

Of course at the moment there is no verification over the written data on the FRAM,  the question is if this can be implemented only by a new firmware.

What do you think about this?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Mark on July 31, 2015, 04:23:06 pm
I think Rigol would lose a lot of customers if they did something like a write+read test on the eeprom to disable options.  Hackability is the number one reason they are so popular in the first place. 


There would probably be a way around it anyway, does anyone have the eeprom image?  Does it contain serial number etc or do we think eeprom images might be interchangeable? 
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: mcinque on July 31, 2015, 06:48:25 pm
Of course the hackability is the main reason Rigol is so popular with his DSAs and DSOs, this is for sure, so I wonder they changed the latest hardware to prevent the riglol hack. Maybe was too simple?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: dadler on July 31, 2015, 07:28:52 pm
Well, I installed 00.13 on my non-hacked, non-soldered, still-in-trial DSA815-TG, and I can say with complete confidence that the firmware version number on the info screen has changed to 00.13.  :P

Since two of the five Rigol products I own have been exchanged or sent back to Rigol for warranty issues, I am a bit reluctant to open up my DSA815 and perform the hardware hack. I am also avoiding leaving the unit on (so as to burn it in and ferret out any hardware issues), as I don't want my trial counter ticking down...just in case I do have to resort to the hardware hack.

I wish someone much smarter than me would find a non-invasive hack for the new DSA815 firmwares. I applaud all of you that are trying!

The 10hz RBW is the only option I would actually pay for, and of course you can't buy that option.  :palm:
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: mcinque on July 31, 2015, 08:25:28 pm
I wish someone much smarter than me would find a non-invasive hack for the new DSA815 firmwares. I applaud all of you that are trying!

Dadler, why don't you use a little piece of wire wrap to short the pins 7 and 8 pins of U1105 only by twisting it around them (so doing the hack without leaving any trace)?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: dadler on July 31, 2015, 08:46:39 pm
I have considered that, but would prefer to leave the (easily defeated, I know) tamper seal in place. But when the trial counter gets down further, I'll probably do just that.  :-/O Still no 10hz RBW though.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: mcinque on August 01, 2015, 04:22:52 pm
Hmmm... it seems that the U1105 FRAM keeps also the "power on" preferences, so by enabling the write protect, you can't select a user preset or the staus (last/default) to load at startup (you can, but it won't be saved really).

What any other info can be stored in that small FRAM?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: smgvbest on August 02, 2015, 04:08:31 am
I want to compare the dumps of a DSA815-TG that had the keys created with rigup/riglol to a DSA815-TG that rigup/riglol doesnt work on.

That would be interesting. Do you know any specs about what's changed in the hardware to prevent riglol working? I guess it's NOT only a private key matter.

p.s. do you suggest to upgrade to 1.13 or to wait a few more?

And what do you think about the write protect enable trick on the FRAM: theoretically rigol can build an update that checks if the write pin it's soldered or not, for example, writing something during the upgrade and then checking the written value after a restart?

No idea what's changed,  I do know that rigup can not even find the key info in the dump (I did mine over SCPI),   since I'm not a crypto person I'm betting like the MSO1000Z they made a change to the encryption algorithm maybe even the same change and that's where I want to start and for my own education why I would love a dump of a DSA815 that was taken when all this worked.   I've searched the massive I2C thread and maybe I'm missing where someone posted theirs that having that would help me educate myself on how it worked before.

For now the FRAM hack is the only way to keep the features,  I've done it it's not hard and worth it if you want to keep the trials running.
I'm not thinking Rigol will go to that extreme to stop hobbyist.  We're buying equipement and keeping them to some extent in the market.  I'd love to see Rigol just say "if your a hobbyist you can submit a request to enable all features for free" and just make it straight forward.
But I"m sure like IBM thier lawyers tell them no you can't do that.

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: D3f1ant on August 27, 2015, 09:52:01 pm
http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/attachment/1579/f-0580/1/-/-/-/-/DSA815%28DSP%29update_00.01.12.00.02.zip?sid=fTYU3cFT9 (http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/attachment/1579/f-0580/1/-/-/-/-/DSA815%28DSP%29update_00.01.12.00.02.zip?sid=fTYU3cFT9)

Expected 1.13 (from previous post it says its 13) buts its now actually FW1.14.
Tried it anyway on a modded 815-TG, seems to work  ;)
Any body have know where the put release notes?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on August 27, 2015, 10:20:25 pm
DSA815 Firmware 00.01.14 Release Notes are attacked:
Edit: Corrected DSA815 (was DSA915).
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on August 28, 2015, 02:29:06 pm
DSA815 Firmware version 00.01.14 now provides for Inverse Color Printing of a displayed image copied to a USB Flash Drive.  This of course provides a image that uses much less toner/ink to print, and makes it much easier to add notes/comments to saved display images.
Although it still will NOT save a JPG image to a USB Flash Drive.  No matter what image type is selected it still always copies a BMP image to the USB Flash Drive.  And a BMP image here is at least 10 times larger than a JPG image.
Also the Grey Scale and Color Print options each always result in a saved Color image.

    Therefor JPG and Grey Scale display image saving to USB still Does NOT Work.  :-//
Please let me know if your results are different.  Thank you. . .

Yes, PeDre's excellent Rigol Screen Capture LAN/USB Utility can be used to do all this very nicely.  http://peter.dreisiebner.at/rigol-bildschirmkopie-lan/download.htm (http://peter.dreisiebner.at/rigol-bildschirmkopie-lan/download.htm)
   
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: mcinque on August 28, 2015, 04:28:23 pm
in addition at D3f1ant, any other user can confirm if trials time hack (write protect FRAM) works with 1.14?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: N8AUM on August 29, 2015, 05:04:26 pm
Just loaded ver 1.14 and so far so good  :-+

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Giorgio on August 31, 2015, 07:23:38 pm
I upgraded to the 1.14 FW but this problem is still there

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dsa815-tg-10-mhz-issue/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dsa815-tg-10-mhz-issue/)

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: smgvbest on August 31, 2015, 11:10:42 pm
Just a curiosity question on this.
Would it do any good to set the tracking generator up as you have but feed it to another SA's input and see if it's the 815's TG specifically,  Then hook that other TG Output to the 815's input and and check the 815's input.

I would think (and for the sake of explanation I'll call the other SA just SA2)
If SA2 reading the 815's TG show's the same blip then it's definitely the 815's TG itself.
if SA2 shows an OK reading of the 815's TG.   then what's left may be either the 815's SA or 815's SA/TG combination
So now feed the SA2's TG (setup same as the 815TG was setup and disconnect the 815's TG from SA2 of course) to the 815's Input
if the 815 reads OK then the 815's SA is OK
So that may then show it's the combination of the 815TG feed to the 815's input that's the issue.
if I had 2 SA's I'd do it.

Does my logic make sense?
Does anyone have 2 SA's with TG to do that test if you'al feel it would actualy prove anything?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Giorgio on September 01, 2015, 10:08:07 am
Hi smgvbest,

before to open the ticket with the Rigol I already checked what you are suggesting, it's confirmed by the Germany Rigol support that it's a common issue in ALL 815-TG and that they are not able at this time (already 1 year passed since I wrote them) to find a solution and that I have to keep it as it is. It's confirmed by others with the HW as mine (check the original post for details), it was present in a brand new one by the reseller, it's present in all the 815-TG.

The problem arise when you turn On the TG, the SA sweep forget numerous bits passing exactly on 10.000.000 Hz.

If you own a 815-TG you will have it and believe me, every time I need to measure a filter in the HF region my eye falls always on that glitch. Not nice if I think I gave money to pay an engineer who is not able to fix  this issue.

I always think that if an instrument is not able to measure something is't just a bells and whistles flipper game.

At least they should give the TG option for free because it's a faulty project.

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: smgvbest on September 01, 2015, 11:17:34 am
I did read that post before I posted my question.
My question was one of clarity for us.
Has anyone done such a test with a second SA to look at the TG signal alone to see if it in in the TG signal itself or is it a combination of the TG/SA on the 815.

Can you post screen shots showing the TG output of the 815 on the other SA you tested with if you've done this?
I'm curious to see if its purely the TG or the combination of both on the 815
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Howardlong on September 01, 2015, 03:46:48 pm
I did read that post before I posted my question.
My question was one of clarity for us.
Has anyone done such a test with a second SA to look at the TG signal alone to see if it in in the TG signal itself or is it a combination of the TG/SA on the 815.

Can you post screen shots showing the TG output of the 815 on the other SA you tested with if you've done this?
I'm curious to see if its purely the TG or the combination of both on the 815

FWIW, a few weeks ago I did a test where I connected the triggers of a a scope and the 815 and let the TG sweep. Regrettably it was inconclusive.

There is a definite discontinuity that occurs at 10MHz, but it was significantly less than that shown on the SA. I tried it at a number of levels too, in case it could be shown that the TG was operating non-linearly somewhere in the frequency chain: the error the 815 SA shows is much less with lower TG power, but the relative TG discontinuity remained the same at the 10MHz transition irrespective of power.

At that point I assumed non-linearity in the SA's mixer, but that doesn't add up either as you'd expect that behaviour to exist over a fairly broad frequency range.

Although I realise it's been diagnosed unfixable in software by Rigol, I am not convinced. if it were a hardware fault, I'd expect the glitch to exist over a wider range of frequencies. Having said that, it is possible that there is some interaction between the internal 10MHz reference and the behaviour seen, it does seem rather coincidental that the ref is at 10MHz as is this trace glitch. If that were the case though, I'd expect the error to be worse at lower TG powers rather than better.

So in short the jury was out for me, but as it doesn't affect me (for now!) I didn't bother to pursue it any further.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on September 07, 2015, 06:50:49 pm
Every Single DSA815-TG, NOT Just Those With the Newer Hardware (i.e. Main Board .07/8) has a problem with the SA Measured frequency using a Resolution Bandwidth (RBW) greater than 100 Hz or so when the Tracking Generator is turned On.
->  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dsa815-tg-10-mhz-issue/msg749136/#msg749136 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dsa815-tg-10-mhz-issue/msg749136/#msg749136)

Edit: Underlined - when the Tracking Generator is turned On
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Jonson.poisk on September 26, 2015, 05:53:30 pm
Hello dear!
You could help me?
Are there any have this firmware unlocking methods other than soldering pins FRAM?
Analyzer DSA815-TG

Firmware 00.01.09
Boot 00.01.04
Mainboard 00.07
Radio board 00.05
FPGA 00.04

Thank you
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: mcinque on September 26, 2015, 07:42:41 pm
According to what I read, with the 01.04 bootloader there is no other solution available at the moment.
If you fear to mess something, you could use a single strand wire of copper between the pins.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: josephny on October 12, 2015, 05:22:40 pm

My 815 is coming today.

I've been lurking, hoping someone real sharp would have a solution to the 1.04 problem.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: autoelectra on November 29, 2015, 10:48:13 pm
Dears,

Yes, Pin-connecting 7+8 works with Main Board 00.08 Boot 00.01.04 and FW 00.01.14.
Does anyone know which components you need for an upgrading to the Tracking Generator option, for analyzers without build-in tracking ?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Pinkus on November 29, 2015, 11:00:58 pm
Dears,

Yes, Pin-connecting 7+8 works with Main Board 00.08 Boot 00.01.04 and FW 00.01.14.
Does anyone know which components you need for an upgrading to the Tracking Generator option, for analyzers without build-in tracking ?
This equals a snowball's chance in hell. Even adding all parts (=expensive) would result in a non calibrated and thus useless tracking generator.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: xrunner on November 30, 2015, 12:03:17 am
Every Single DSA815-TG, NOT Just Those With the Newer Hardware (i.e. Main Board .07/8) has a problem with the SA Measured frequency using a Resolution Bandwidth (RBW) greater than 100 Hz or so when the Tracking Generator is turned On.
->  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dsa815-tg-10-mhz-issue/msg749136/#msg749136 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dsa815-tg-10-mhz-issue/msg749136/#msg749136)

Edit: Underlined - when the Tracking Generator is turned On

I was going to buy a DSA815-TG next week but now I don't know ... is it still a good buy considering this bug has not been fixed?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: autoelectra on November 30, 2015, 06:24:29 pm
Dears,

I bought this fantastic analyzer for 800€ + 1Year Garanty from dealer(one customer before send it back to dealer, and now it is used and therefore price-reduced)
Of course I understand, the tracking generator costs only 200€ more, (for me as radio-amateur, important)but I had no choise, buy or not? You get what you pay for.:-//
Remaining demo time for options at buying: 35h30m.
And used equipment from HP: spareparts, not always easy to get them and heavy equipment.
So I hope, there is a solution in 1-2 years and I can update with additional hardware to Tracking-Generator. :-//
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: moya034 on November 30, 2015, 06:40:35 pm
Every Single DSA815-TG, NOT Just Those With the Newer Hardware (i.e. Main Board .07/8) has a problem with the SA Measured frequency using a Resolution Bandwidth (RBW) greater than 100 Hz or so when the Tracking Generator is turned On.
->  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dsa815-tg-10-mhz-issue/msg749136/#msg749136 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dsa815-tg-10-mhz-issue/msg749136/#msg749136)

Edit: Underlined - when the Tracking Generator is turned On

I was going to buy a DSA815-TG next week but now I don't know ... is it still a good buy considering this bug has not been fixed?

I have the DSA815-TG with the VB1020 options. I absolutely adore the equipment, and it works very well for all the practical applications I use it for as a ham radio operator. Good luck finding another SA/TG brand new for the same price, or dealing with used stuff on ebay...
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: pascal_sweden on November 30, 2015, 07:01:42 pm
Can this bug eventually be fixed in software, or is it really a hardware bug?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Howardlong on December 01, 2015, 08:34:07 am
Can this bug eventually be fixed in software, or is it really a hardware bug?

It is difficult to see why these features can't be solved in firmware, although Rigol have apparently previously stated that the 10MHz glitch is hardware related.

I could see that the frequency glitches might lead to a non-uniform linear frequency sweep, these could well be due to a change in the frequency derivation chain which might mean it takes a few ms more at those particular steps for the frequency chain to settle.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Firetank on December 01, 2015, 08:15:40 pm
Evening, I have been away abroad for few months and had no time for my equipment. May i please ask about the latest 2 software upgrades lately.

My 815 have the 00.01.12 installed, now i received 2 upgrades which are the 00.01.13 and today the 00.01.14.

If i may ask can i do directly the latest from 00.01.12 to 00.01.14 and skip the 00.01.13 ? 

What would i gain from this upgrade as fixes or add ons ? 

My board version is 00.01.04

Thanks for your assistance and your time gents.

Ray

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: TomThomas on December 01, 2015, 08:30:50 pm
Evening, I have been away abroad for few months and had no time for my equipment. May i please ask about the latest 2 software upgrades lately.

My 815 have the 00.01.12 installed, now i received 2 upgrades which are the 00.01.13 and today the 00.01.14.

If i may ask can i do directly the latest from 00.01.12 to 00.01.14 and skip the 00.01.13 ? 

What would i gain from this upgrade as fixes or add ons ? 

My board version is 00.01.04

Thanks for your assistance and your time gents.

Ray

Hi Ray,
simply download it from int.rigol.com also something new :-+
rgds
Tom
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Velund on December 01, 2015, 09:08:43 pm
I see f/w 00.01.14 and 00.01.15 update files on Rigol site. Does anyone have release notes for this versions? Is it worth to update from 00.01.12 on unit with all options activated?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: pascal_sweden on December 01, 2015, 09:42:59 pm
It is difficult to see why these features can't be solved in firmware, although Rigol have apparently previously stated that the 10MHz glitch is hardware related.

When and where did they state this? Do you have a link?

In case it would be an hardware issue, would it mean a new revision of the Rigol DSA815?
Maybe they have already fixed the hardware issue in the mean time in a newer revision?

Is Rigol support in America in the loop on this subject matter already?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Howardlong on December 01, 2015, 09:58:00 pm
It is difficult to see why these features can't be solved in firmware, although Rigol have apparently previously stated that the 10MHz glitch is hardware related.

When and where did they state this? Do you have a link?

In case it would be an hardware issue, would it mean a new revision of the Rigol DSA815?
Maybe they have already fixed the hardware issue in the mean time in a newer revision?

Is Rigol support in America in the loop on this subject matter already?

I might have misunderstood but there was some suggestion here https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dsa815-tg-10-mhz-issue/msg724279/#msg724279 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dsa815-tg-10-mhz-issue/msg724279/#msg724279) about that. Bearing in mind our own combined efforts, the symptoms still appear to me to be solvable in firmware.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: pascal_sweden on December 01, 2015, 10:03:53 pm
According to tests performed by other users, the bug is in the SA WHEN TG is activated. When the TG is OFF the SA works flawless.

So maybe they can fix this in the firmware code for the tracking generator.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Howardlong on December 02, 2015, 06:22:23 am
According to tests performed by other users, the bug is in the SA WHEN TG is activated. When the TG is OFF the SA works flawless.

So maybe they can fix this in the firmware code for the tracking generator.

Yes, if you have time to read that whole thread, we identified that quite early on. There's also some strangeness in other settings that unexpectedly perform a weird frequency shift in some circumstances. Again, the TG appears correct, it's the SA that uses a different scheme when the TG is on.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: fqahmad66 on December 02, 2015, 10:02:31 am
Hi,

This may seem a dumb question. I have following..

Model: DSA815-TG

Version of Main Board : 00.04
Version of Radio Frequency Board FPGA : 00.05
Version of Digital Board FPGA : 00.04
Version of Firmware : 00.01.06
Version of Boot : 00.01.03

All options installed..

will upgrading to ver.0.14 delete the options?

Best Regards
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: hammy on December 02, 2015, 04:48:11 pm
will upgrading to ver.0.14 delete the options?

No, the options will stay if you already enabled them.

Cheers
hammy
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: DD4DA on December 02, 2015, 09:23:03 pm
I had testet the actually firmware V1.15 from 01.12.2015 for the DSA-815 (TG) and my device response with a continously beeping and an error message "413 intermediate frequency signal out of range." just before the initializing are finished.
The firmweare is released at]http://int.rigol.com/Support/SoftDownload/3]  (http://int.rigol.com/Support/SoftDownload/3). I attached my version report of the DSA815-TG, who is about 3 Years old and not often used.
I have downgraded to the V1.14 and the Error Message does not occurs - the Spec weorks proper.
I also had testet the Hardcopy programm Bildschirmkopie x64 from 30.11.15 from Peter Dreisiebner also response very slow on the DSA815tg.
To proove the software, connectivity (eth) and Windows 10 (586.11) i had test them with the the scope DS2202 and that works fast as expected.
I had read about some extensions in the hardcopy part of firmware that maybe responsable for that missfunction.   

So beware to use the 1.15 if you could'nt downgrade your SA.

vy 73 de DD4DA
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: DD4DA on December 02, 2015, 09:43:32 pm
I had do a photo of the error message - sorry for the bad quality.

vy 73 de DD4DA
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: agronaught on December 02, 2015, 11:31:10 pm

I occasionally get this depending on the input. I was surprised to see the message looking at the signal from my GPSDO, but it was there.  Tweaking the attenuation under the amplitude menu is usually all it takes to fix the issue, a stronger signal will obviously need external attenuation of course.   

J.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: DD4DA on December 03, 2015, 08:07:04 am
agronaught: I had open a ticket at rigol support an reportet the problem and they confirmed and extend my experiences with their own test results. I addidtion to my beeping and error message at init process of the DSA, Rigol germany had found out that the noiselevel is 30dB worse than before.
I also had found out that the SPI command response time is also quite delayed as in my older Firmware 1.09. This delay is also left in the used 1.14. I don't have all releases between 1.09 and 1.14 to check when this started. The software and hardware i used for capturing the screenshots is the same  i use for the DS2202 i also own and this response in regular time.   As example: í use the prefered program RigolBildschirmkopie v0.9.6 from Peter Dreisiebner to get screenshots and send SCI commands to the device. A device discovery on the ETH interface needs a rerun to get a resonse of the device.
An answer of just an SCI command IDN? needs abou 10sec. A hardcopy of the entire screen need about 10min.
I finaly use the 1.09 again and the DSA works properly and response regular. 
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: DD4DA on December 03, 2015, 06:49:09 pm
Hi Peter,
i got major problems with the if-frequency range, descripted previously and opened a ticket and communicate with the support of Rigol germany. They had confirmed that something is wrong about this issue and their further test with 1.15 firmware offers that the dsa update results also in a poor noise-level - he wrote something about +30dB - thats sound like a problem with if processing part of the firmware. Well, that's their part - i had downgraded my dsa back to 1.14 whre this messages are not shown.
I had done further test a couple of minutes ago and found out that the capturing process of the firmware are more faster if you switch the printer output as "inverse" instead "normal". If i also switch the porgramm option "single-sweep" on, the dsa transfer the screenshot pretty fast. The printmode in "normal" position and "single-sweep" option is on, the capturing time is comparable by a print-putton using the regular USB-memory stick connected on the local device.
It seems that the DSA print process consumes much more cpu time and memory as previously releases of the Firmware.
I git an older DSA815-TG device and mybe they had changed the hardware for further expansions, that's not used in my device. I am not familar with the entire construction of the DSA, so this is just a speculation.
Well, the init failure an error messages at final init of the DSA and a 30dB higher noise level are confirmed in V1.15 by Rigol Germany and will reported to the developer in china.
Many thanks for the firmware collection - thats pretty nice to check out what's happend in the special releases.

In addition, your programm "Bildschirmkopie"works pretty nice and the best i have seen as now and use them with the DS2302 / DS2202 and DSA815-TG. It just do a pretty good job. Thanks for the public avalibility of your work.

vy 73 de Gerhard



     
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: gm0otb on December 09, 2015, 12:36:10 pm
Anyone made any progress on the software hack for the newer DSA815?.. Missing the 10Hz BW! :)

Ray.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: DD4DA on December 09, 2015, 10:00:29 pm
Hi Ray,
you are kiddinghttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/Smileys/default/smiley_laughing.gif
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: smgvbest on December 10, 2015, 12:23:34 am
I have not had the time to work on it,  work and family around this time of year probably won't make any progress.
I'm also far from an expert on this so no promises


Anyone made any progress on the software hack for the newer DSA815?.. Missing the 10Hz BW! :)

Ray.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: gm0otb on December 10, 2015, 02:03:05 pm
No harm in asking!.. Thanks for the replies.

Sandra you know 99.99% more than me! :) All the members hard work is greatly appreciated.

Please PM me with any headway or if i can be of any help.

Regards Ray.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: DD4DA on December 10, 2015, 10:40:37 pm
@Sandra:


Sandra  (Yes, I am a Woman :p )

you kidding - the hell know what this means.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: smgvbest on December 10, 2015, 10:49:58 pm
there's back history on it that i won't rehash.   check the I2C thread if your curious

@Sandra:


Sandra  (Yes, I am a Woman :p )

you kidding - the hell know what this means.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: DD4DA on December 10, 2015, 11:23:55 pm
Sanda, that's sound boring anyway - i don't wanna know what some stupids wrote about female doing a technical job or hobby. If they reaches a midlife age, they had learned that there is much more between black and white - maybe :-)

Well, my DSA815-TG is an older one and i am unsure if 10hz bw is available or a possible option. I had never required them - i am a radio amateur on hf and use 100hz some times to see the mixing products close to the main carrier (IMD) of my used exiter and power amplifier.
It's a just for my hobby purposes, not more.
 


 
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: smgvbest on December 10, 2015, 11:37:31 pm
If you have an older one and haven't already I'd go ahead and use riglol and enable everything including the 10hz rbw.   but that my opinion.   just go here for the web version http://gotroot.ca/rigol/riglol-103d/ (http://gotroot.ca/rigol/riglol-103d/)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: TheSteve on December 10, 2015, 11:42:24 pm
If you have an older one and haven't already I'd go ahead and use riglol and enable everything including the 10hz rbw.   but that my opinion.   just go here for the web version http://gotroot.ca/rigol/riglol-103d/ (http://gotroot.ca/rigol/riglol-103d/)

I second this - I do believe he has to have older firmware for it to work though, after the keys are entered he can upgrade to the newest if he wishes.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: gm0otb on December 11, 2015, 03:11:55 am
I third it?.. LOL  I had one of the early DSA815-TG's and unlocked all options including the 10Hz BW and you can still upgrade your firmware without losing all the options.

Sorry i sold the thing, stuck with the FRAM write protect pin grounded :(

Also Radio amateur QRV on HF,VHF,UHF, 1.2Ghz & 10Ghz ATV analogue and Digital (DVB-T) mostly homebrew.

Ray (GM0OTB)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: DD4DA on December 11, 2015, 07:29:54 am
...and yes, my DSA815-TG is about 2 years old, used an older version of boot-loader and maybe an older hw revison, who make it possible for me to downgrade again. I have paid for the both parts of vSWR-Option. All other are not required for me as now. I know that's able to unlock all option with the keygen and i also had read the hole thread around the decryption of the entire rigols 2k,4k Scope and older DSA8x anaylzer and was amazed about the knowledge of the programmer who has analyzed, identified  and offer the used cipher algorythm. I don't was further surprised that he was later able to write the keygen for that. I had expect that the owner of this eevblog stop the thread if the details of internal cipher method was published because it's not allowed to do this in every country. Themost companies are very sensitive about this kind of issues, even it's a chinese one. That they had noticed, that a keygen is available and reduces their "option business", confirms the modification of the bootloader that stop the downgrade and the further usage of the keygen in later offered firmware releases and newer and higher priced scope and analyzer models that released in the near past.
I actually uses a DSA815TG with the hole VSWR-Option and the advanced messuring Kit that's helpful for th two-tone messurements. The EMI option is actually not required - even i homebrew and repair some of my rf equipments.
I am active on the HF-Bands (mostly doing morese code and using less the microphone), The Satellite operation and all multimode UHF and VHF and SHF radios are sold in the past because i don't use them. The last one is the D-Star radio ic2820h Icom is also boxed again like the homebrewed FM-ATV transmitter since a couple of years. All antennas expect the Diamond X30 are removed because i am not further interessed operate on frequencies upper that 50Mhz. I had done this in the late 80th to 2001 and there is nothing that i wanna do as now.
I had moved my homebrew activities from VHF and upper to HF and lower and do design and programming a modern rotor controller using a 5" TFT-Display and an ARM Cortex M4F. I am not sure if this will be ever published because i see the hole (time consuming) message traffice of K3NG's published one. Most of them had never seen a IDE and would build and customize them. The questions are very basic and could answered by just reading the fucking manual of the stupid arduino manual's. The IDE i use for the ARM-Cortex-M are quite more comlex and powerful - the manual are bigger and more detailed. To publish a source code of such project enters into a nightmare of questions like them from the arduino example of K3NG. I don't want to waste my less getting time to do such. I wanna do working on my radio instead. Actually i rebuild the kitchen with my wife - also a time consuming job that needs to be done quite fast and does'nt required any Rigol's but more tools from Bosch, Makita and Festool. I get retired if this is (ever) finished :-)

vy 73 de Gerhard, DD4DA
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Mosaic on January 07, 2016, 05:29:39 pm
I had testet the actually firmware V1.15 from 01.12.2015 for the DSA-815 (TG) and my device response with a continously beeping and an error message "413 intermediate frequency signal out of range." just before the initializing are finished.
The firmweare is released at]http://int.rigol.com/Support/SoftDownload/3]  (http://int.rigol.com/Support/SoftDownload/3). I attached my version report of the DSA815-TG, who is about 3 Years old and not often used.
I have downgraded to the V1.14 and the Error Message does not occurs - the Spec weorks proper.
I also had testet the Hardcopy programm Bildschirmkopie x64 from 30.11.15 from Peter Dreisiebner also response very slow on the DSA815tg.
To proove the software, connectivity (eth) and Windows 10 (586.11) i had test them with the the scope DS2202 and that works fast as expected.
I had read about some extensions in the hardcopy part of firmware that maybe responsable for that missfunction.   

So beware to use the 1.15 if you could'nt downgrade your SA.

vy 73 de DD4DA

I requested an FW for the 815Tg last nite, and they sent me 1.14 not 1.15 as the latest.
BTW I have a genuine EMI and Quasi peak Det. license for sale if anyone is interested.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: mcinque on January 07, 2016, 06:15:53 pm
license for sale if anyone is interested.
I guess is legitimate to hack the options for personal use, while it is not if you're reselling the hardware hacked. Am I wrong?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: DD4DA on January 07, 2016, 08:18:05 pm
license for sale if anyone is interested.
I guess is legitimate to hack the options for personal use, while it is not if you're reselling the hardware hacked. Am I wrong?

Yes, you are wrong - You use an option, a functionality that you have not payed. Software is inmaterial but this needs software and license fee to get them and a bunch of payed employers to build them. If you write a book and published them on a digital media like a cdrom - is it allowd that everybody copy them instead to pay for?
I had payed the option i use and about 400 bugs are cheap for one of them, compared by that from Keysight, R&S, TEK or others.
vy 73 de DD4DA   
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: mcinque on January 07, 2016, 08:50:50 pm
This posts of mine are probably a little bit OT, but I generally agree with you about copying.

But in the example you said, comparing it with the DSA815, it's like you have purchased an e-book stored on a cd rom, that contains another hidden e-book inside, unlockable only by paying another sum of money.

If you can find the way to read the 2nd without paying for it just by hacking the code of the cd-rom and you read it, I doubt you can be sued, this is hacking, the cd-rom is mine and I can/should be free to do what I want with it.

The moment you distribute (even freely) the method you find to read the 2nd book, you are doing illegal activity.


Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Mosaic on January 08, 2016, 11:39:40 pm
license for sale if anyone is interested.
I guess is legitimate to hack the options for personal use, while it is not if you're reselling the hardware hacked. Am I wrong?

I am not promoting a 'hack'. Did I say I hacked something?
I said..I have a legal (and UNUSED) certificate license for the EMI & Quasi peak detector kit option for sale if anyone wants one.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: mcinque on January 09, 2016, 06:35:17 am
sorry, I misunderstood  :-[
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: MotoDog on January 16, 2016, 02:47:39 pm

Quote
"If you have an older one and haven't already I'd go ahead and use riglol and enable everything including the 10hz rbw.   but that my opinion.   just go here for the web version http://gotroot.ca/rigol/riglol-103d/ (http://gotroot.ca/rigol/riglol-103d/)"

Do you use BCDF?


DSA815 device options:
first character: A = official, S = trial
AAAB - Tracking Generator
AAAC - Advnced Measurement Kit
AAAD - 10Hz RBW
AAAE - EMI/Quasi Peak
AAAF - VSWR


Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: xrunner on January 23, 2016, 11:31:12 pm
Haha - I just discovered a goofey bug. When you select .bmp for the screen print to save to a USB stick, the saved file is "right-side" up. But when you select the saved type to be .jpg, it saves it "upside-down".  :wtf:

Edit: .png is OK though ...
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on January 28, 2016, 06:36:04 pm
FYI, see 'RIGOL DSA815-TG @ 10 MHz issue/bug' for new firmware (00.01.15.01.00) that should fix all the reported issues that were discussed there related to the Tracking Generator.  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dsa815-tg-10-mhz-issue/msg851904/#msg851904 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dsa815-tg-10-mhz-issue/msg851904/#msg851904)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: georges80 on January 28, 2016, 06:59:01 pm
Haha - I just discovered a goofey bug. When you select .bmp for the screen print to save to a USB stick, the saved file is "right-side" up. But when you select the saved type to be .jpg, it saves it "upside-down".  :wtf:

Edit: .png is OK though ...

Discussed already in the 10MHz bug thread...

It's likely that the jpeg option is for use only in the southern hemisphere :)

cheers,
george.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: PsychoBoy on March 25, 2016, 09:38:54 pm
Hello guys, is it possible to enable tracking generator to DSA815 (without TG option)? Assuming that it's not patched and I would solder BNC for TG output and enable TG option in license then would it work?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: geggi1 on March 26, 2016, 10:17:55 am
On the older units with diffrent boot and firmware it was possible.
see http://gotroot.ca/rigol/riglol/ (http://gotroot.ca/rigol/riglol/)
I think this was possible up to boot 1.03
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: TurboTom on March 26, 2016, 10:41:29 am
I wouldn't expect this to be possible, even if you had an older version with the "riglol"-supported bootloader. The components required for the tracking generator are not really "el-cheapos" and I would'n expect the corresponding sections on the PCB to be populated if you didn't order the DSA with the tracking generator option. Moreover, even if you get these components installed, you would be lacking calibration and I'm not sure if anyone figured out how to calibrate the unit, let alone the availablility of the required equipment...well, at least yo got the DSA to get that done ;)

Cheers,
Thomas
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: jacksradio on April 25, 2016, 06:38:14 am
Hello,

I just purchased a used Rigol DSA815TG and was pleased to see that it has the 1.02 boot loader, but it has been upgraded to 1.12 FW.  I have read almost all of the info on this site pertaining to the DSA815's but cannot find an absolute answer to a question I have, so I will ask here. 

Can I use the keygen since I have an older boot loader OR do I need to downgrade the FW to something prior to 1.09 and then utilize the keygen?

Thanks,
Jack
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Velund on April 25, 2016, 04:07:52 pm
do I need to downgrade the FW to something prior to 1.09 and then utilize the keygen?

With older bootloader, you can boot DSA from USB stick instead of internal flash. You have to hold some key pressed during power on, can't remember which one right now.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: jacksradio on April 25, 2016, 05:45:15 pm
Thank you.  I will research that process.  Are there any links for older firmware someone could share?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: jacksradio on April 25, 2016, 11:45:35 pm
Thank you to all the great people who developed the tools and took the time to provide it freely for others to use.  I found everything I needed to revert back to 1.08 FW.  This forum is an invaluable resource.  Thanks again.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: K1JOS on May 29, 2016, 01:56:57 pm
Here is a dumb question ---  if you revert back to FW 1.08 to add the TG - is there some way to still use the TG with later firmware versions?  It seems a lot of fixes and enhancements occurred with 1.09 and later.

jerry
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on May 29, 2016, 11:55:39 pm
Here is a dumb question ---  if you revert back to FW 1.08 to add the TG - is there some way to still use the TG with later firmware versions?  It seems a lot of fixes and enhancements occurred with 1.09 and later.

jerry

Jerry:  If you want a DSA815 with a Tracking Generator you MUST buy a DSA815-TG.  This has been covered here several times, and I'm sorry that you apparently missed seeing it.  If you have more questions, please read back through this thread to see the history.
Yes, the DSA815 Tracking Generator 'Option code' is provided in the Riglol 1.03c and 1.03d Keygenerators, but it is of NO VALUE and should NOT HAVE EVER been included in the Keygenerators.  So, please don't bother installing the TG Option, because the TG hardware is not in the basic DSA815 (non TG version) !
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: XFDDesign on June 01, 2016, 12:11:33 am
I'm upgrading from my DSA815 to something a bit more beefy. Could anyone suggest a properly reasonable price (in the US) for a second hand 815 with the TG and all but the mask options unlocked?

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: jjoonathan on June 01, 2016, 12:32:21 am
There have been two DSA815-TGs on ebay for $1300 that haven't moved for weeks. So, less than $1300 if you want to sell it soon.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: XFDDesign on June 01, 2016, 01:54:51 am
Given that they're $1500 new, I was thinking $1k flat. Thanks for the baseline. I suppose it's a mix between moving it quickly, and trying to get the most bux.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on June 14, 2016, 10:55:49 pm
There is New Firmware available for the DSA815
FW: 00.01.16.00
 
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ormandj on June 14, 2016, 11:53:32 pm
Where did you see this available? Any change log available? Thank you!
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: VK6SW on June 15, 2016, 06:45:50 am
Rigol firmware available here - http://int.rigol.com/Support/SoftDownload/3 (http://int.rigol.com/Support/SoftDownload/3)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Pinkus on June 15, 2016, 10:09:56 am
Rigol firmware available here - http://int.rigol.com/Support/SoftDownload/3 (http://int.rigol.com/Support/SoftDownload/3)
Website was not working for me.
Edit: the reason was Chrome, on Internet Explorer it is working fine.

However on the Rigol site you can request a firmware. It took only 5 minutes, than I got an individual download link (will be invalid soon, thats why I am not posting it here) by mail.

Not a lot of changes, thus not worth for installing for most of us. The release note says:
Version 00.01.16.00.03 from 18.05.2016:
1. Added support for new models DSA705 and DSA710.
2. Solve the bug of command “:SENSe:TPOWer:MODE?” returned wrong result
3. (AE 201512000256)Solve logarithmic abscissa save csv data error problem

Version 00.01.15.01.00 from 25.12.2015
1. Match performance for hardware revision 01.05 with older hardware revisions
(whatever that means).

Many enhancements and modifications were made on revision 00.01.15.00.00 from 23.10.2015.
At least this 1.15.00 version should be installed on your DSA815.

Edit: I installed 1.16 on mine, everything seems OK, options are still there. There is a new (inactive) option now showing I did not recognize before called "2FSK-DSA800". So probably a new option with addl. functionality to analyze and demodulate 2FSK signals will be available.

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: xrunner on June 15, 2016, 11:54:21 am
Not a lot of changes, thus not worth for installing for most of us. The release note says:
Version 00.01.16.00.03 from 18.05.2016:
1. Added support for new models DSA705 and DSA710.
2. Solve the bug of command “:SENSe:TPOWer:MODE?” returned wrong result
3. (AE 201512000256)Solve logarithmic abscissa save csv data error problem

You mean they didn't even fix the "upside-down" .jpg screen shot bug? That's pretty lame then.  :--
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Pinkus on June 15, 2016, 12:41:43 pm
I did only try the PNG mode - this one is not upside down.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: xrunner on June 15, 2016, 12:43:58 pm
I did only try the PNG mode - this one is not upside down.

I understand that, but they have a bug that's gotta be pretty damn simple to fix, and they don't even touch it? I mean come on, that's just lame. The bug's been there for a long time.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Pinkus on June 15, 2016, 04:02:39 pm
I did only try the PNG mode - this one is not upside down.

I understand that, but they have a bug that's gotta be pretty damn simple to fix, and they don't even touch it? I mean come on, that's just lame. The bug's been there for a long time.
OK, just for you :-* I tried to save a JPG and guess what: still upside down. BMP and PNG is fine as I said.
Even if it is not a big deal for the user to rotate them (2x right click in picture viewer and select rotate clockwise) they should have repaired this considering they are calling the firmware now 1.16.00.03 instead of 1.15.1.00 and not just 1.15.01.01


Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Pinkus on June 16, 2016, 06:33:06 am
Edit: Price of Rigol's '2FSK-DSA800' Option Activation?  Not available at this time.
I stumbled upon this link yesterday: http://www.rigol-uk.co.uk/Rigol-SSC-DSA-Signal-Seamless-Capture-p/dsa700-ssc.htm#.V2JGVlWLT0M (http://www.rigol-uk.co.uk/Rigol-SSC-DSA-Signal-Seamless-Capture-p/dsa700-ssc.htm#.V2JGVlWLT0M)
Price for the option is 179 GBP (225 Euro), but not available for purchase yet.
As the firmware is more or less the same on the DSA series analyzers, at some point this option will be available for all.

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: I4E on June 17, 2016, 12:18:48 am
The DSA700's are built on the same "platform" as the DSA800  but I don't think they'll mix firmware/software and make the DSA700 firmware in a form for the  DSA815.

The DSA705 (500MHz) and DSA710 (1GHz) unfortunately don't have a tracking gen option. 

As a hint ,  if anyone has issues upgrading your firmware on a Rigol unit.. sometimes it's the USB stick and you need to try a different one.

We are offering a discount on options for Rigol products especially for EEVblog members regardless if you bought your unit from us or not.  Just mention the blog when contacting us.

Have a great day Everyone!

Joy Torres
Instruments 4 Engineers Ltd
Tel +44 (0) 161 871 7450
info@instruments4engineers.com

www.instruments4engineers.com (http://www.instruments4engineers.com)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: I4E on June 20, 2016, 09:11:09 am
Hi There Ted and Everyone.

I checked with Rigol because I hadn't heard of this option previously  and there isn't anything on our current pricelist.  Rigol said that the option is for 2FSK Modulation which is typically useful in markets such as automotive.  You would have to buy the option  and the price for this hasn't been released yet. Rigol are going to be coming out with a datasheet and I'm waiting for that as well.

If anyone is interested in getting the info when I get it send me a PM  and I'll get it to you as soon as it comes in.

Have a great day Everyone!

Joy Torres
Instruments 4 Engineers
Tel +44 (0) 161 871 7450

Website : www.instruments4engineers.com (http://www.instruments4engineers.com)

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: I4E on June 21, 2016, 03:43:57 pm
Welcome Ted :-)


Joy Torres
Instruments 4 Engineers
Tel +44 (0) 161 871 7450
info@instruments4engineers.com


Authorized Rigol Distributor
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: pascal_sweden on June 21, 2016, 06:55:04 pm
What about the noise floor level on the more high-end Rigol spectrum analyzers, such as DSA832-TG, DSA875-TG, or DSA1030A-TG3?

Are these noise floor levels all the same as in the base model Rigol spectrum analyzer, DSA815-TG?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Mosaic on July 06, 2016, 06:44:51 pm
I've been thinking about how to 'convert' or  'mod' the DSA 815-TG to  go up to say 3Ghz using perhaps 2 bands.

Superficially:
The TG has to be upconverted (1.5Ghz to 3 Ghz), passed thru the DUT and then down converted back to the stock range. Then all the instrument readings can be considered shifted by 1.5Ghz.

Perhaps an ALC stage (ref'd to the TG output) might be needed to compensate for the upconverter & HPF losses so the DUT sees the correct input power level as dialed in on the DSA.


Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Velund on July 06, 2016, 07:11:38 pm
I've been thinking about how to 'convert' or  'mod' the DSA 815-TG ...

It was done more than once.. 8-)

If all you need is tuning of various filters and checking SWR - you can just normalize and see "real" dB's, even without ALC and potential problems linked with it...

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Mosaic on July 07, 2016, 01:31:25 am
Any links to how it was done and the pitfalls along the way?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: I4E on August 12, 2016, 11:30:40 pm
Hi There Ted

Have you been able to resolve your issue? If you need me to put you in touch with someone for help let me know.

Have a nice weekend!

Joy Torres
Instruments 4 Engineers
Tel +44 (0) 161 871 7450

Authorized Rigol Distributor   

www.instruments4engineers.com (http://www.instruments4engineers.com)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: I4E on August 13, 2016, 01:48:07 pm
Glad it's been resolved :-) We haven't gotten the datasheet yet but once I do I'll be sure to send it to you.

Have a good weekend!

Joy
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on August 14, 2016, 12:22:05 pm
Full DSA815 System/Firmware Information and 10 MHz Clock Calibration:

The provided PDF attachment explains how to get the DSA815 full System (Hardware and Firmware) Information and how to Adjust the 10 MHz Clock Frequency (Frequency Standard).  The access key requirement was revised in Firmware 00.01.15, +.  Credit and thanks go to PeDre (Peter) for providing the additional information for accessing the Service/Calibration Modes.  Thank you Peter.

Edit: I found a error in Steps 2a) and 2b).  The corrected (replacement) version is provided here below.  I'm sorry for the error, although grateful that no one had, or reported a problem with it.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on August 15, 2016, 11:49:12 pm
There is new Firmware available for the DSA815:  DSA815 Firmware_00.01.17.00.04
To get this you can go to > http://int.rigol.com/Support/SoftDownload/3 (http://int.rigol.com/Support/SoftDownload/3)   Then go to > Spectrum Analyzer.   Then Download > DSA815 Firmware_00.01.17.00.04

V00.01.17    2016-08-15
-----Added the SSC fuction
-----Cleared the LAN communication trouble
-----Resolve the front panel switch control problem

Yes, it is safe to install, and all options are still there for all the older DSA815's with Boot loader 00.01.02 and .03.  Enjoy . . .   See my previous post (Reply #784) to see the full System and Firmware Information after doing the FW upgrade.

Edit: I Do Not have the newer version DSA815 that TurboTom (Thomas) describes in his post below (Reply #786). If you have a Newer DSA815 with Boot loader version 00.01.04 then be sure to at least read post's (Reply #) 786, 787, and 790 ( * ->   may very well be a potential fix for the newer DSA815s).

FYI - All older DSA815's/TG (with Boot loader 00.01.02, 00.01.03) are all working fine as is with this Firmware upgrade.  

            Ted572
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: TurboTom on August 16, 2016, 12:16:09 am
ATTENTION: All owners of the later models of the DSA815(TG) who couldn't use the Riglol keygenerator to enable the options but had to connect the WP pin of the FRAM chip to Vdd, please DON'T INSTALL the new firmware! I did and apparently, the new firmware checks if it can write to the FRAM and if it cannot, it somehow disables the trial licenses (probably in program code). It may work okay if you just for the update remove the WP-Vdd link but one never knows what might happen if the link is closed again later. I guess it's time to look for a "proper" hack for the later DSA815 models...

Good luck,
Thomas
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: TurboTom on August 16, 2016, 12:25:06 am
A quick follow-up: Fortunately it's possible to downgrade back to 1.16 and the trial licenses reappear. I guess now it's time to save an image of the FRAM contents...

Cheers,
Thomas
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on August 16, 2016, 12:53:31 am
A quick follow-up: Fortunately it's possible to downgrade back to 1.16 and the trial licenses reappear. I guess now it's time to save an image of the FRAM contents...

Hi Thomas:
What Boot version do you have in your DSA815?  And how (procedure used) did you downgrade your Firmware?
You are very fortunate, and I'm happy for you.

I'm asking about your Boot version because if you have 00.01.02 or 00.01.03 then you should be able to downgrade to FW 00.01.07 and use the Riglol Keygen to install the Options.  And then reinstall FW 00.01.17.
This is not possible if you have Boot version 00.01.04.  And I thought that the newer DSA815's had Boot version 00.01.04 and could not downgrade the Firmware at all.  But if you have Boot version 00.01.04 it must be that you just can't downgrade to a version that uses the older Boot version, but still able to downgrade a couple of versions.  Anyway if you need FW 00.01.07 I can help you.

   Cheers, Ted
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: TurboTom on August 16, 2016, 01:23:54 am
Ted -

I've got bootloader version 00.01.04 and hardware 00.08. I downgraded the same way as I did the update -- in the storage menu with an USB stick containing only the firmware file. I experimented with this before and found it to work. Apparently Rigol hasn't blocked the "reverse route" like they did in the DS1000Z series. Yet if I remember correctly, I cannot downgrade to firmware versions that came with the previous bootloader version (I guess that's basically why the machines with the 01.04 bootloader cannot be unlocked with the "Riglol" keygen). So nothing won but also nothing lost  ;) .

It will only get frustrating if Rigol should add some real innovations in follow-up firmware versions in future (I doubt they will...  :P ). But who knows, maybe someone will find a different way to "free" the later DSAs without write-protecting the FRAM.

Cheers,
Thomas
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: TurboTom on August 16, 2016, 08:41:30 am
Thanks Ted, I think I've got the files you were referring to somewhere as well. As yet I'm a little reluctant to apply that patch yet, especially since I've also got the Siglent SSA3021X(+)  ;) which makes the Rigol look rather limited. Probably I'm going to (try to) sell the rigol eventually, yet sometimes it's also quite beneficial to have two such units, especially when analyzing some "peculiarities" of one of the SAs... What I'm actully missing more than the (test) licenses on the rigol, is the 10Hz RBW. And that's the one feature I cannot get on my instrument, whatever kind of tweak I appy to the FRAM. This Siglent (with a little "help...") goes down to 1Hz RBW, quite a difference to the Rigol in its current configuration.

Cheers,
Thomas
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on August 16, 2016, 12:32:27 pm
Re. DSA815 Firmware upgrade 00.01.17.00.04:

See post (Reply) #785.  I have made edits to this with explanations of the issue with newer DSA815's with Boot loader 00.01.04 and a potential fix by EEVbloger Howardlong (with some info in Reply #790).  Thanks to TurboTom we have been alerted to this, and he covers it very well.  Thanks Thomas.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: TurboTom on August 16, 2016, 01:29:58 pm
I intend to "poke around" in my DSA815 a little to experiment with the FRAM and once open, I couldn't resist to peek into the RF section as well (didn't open that so far) - guess I was surprised to find something considerably different from the design shown in Dave's teardown video and the associated photos.

Actually, the RF input section and the 1st mixer had been modified excessively and some other sections as well. As far as I can tell, the VCOs were kept practically unchanged. But now there are many "permanent adjustment points", as it seems mostly for impedance matching, all throughout the areas where frequencies >500MHz are processed. Input protection also seems to have been "beefed up" a little. One very funny detail is that apparently some of the 1st LO signal is coupled to the 1st mixer output through a low pass filter. Maybe there's some feed-through in the mixer that's compensated that way??

Anyway, I always had the impression that on my DSA815 the noise floor is round about 10dB better than what's shown in Dave's TG tutorial and other videos. That modification may actually explain the improved performance of the later instruments.

I took some photos of my machine (sorry for the bad focus at the periphery sometimes - I guess I need a better lens for these close-up shots) and uploaded them to my web server: http://www.turbinemuseum.de/files/DSA815_Photos.zip (http://www.turbinemuseum.de/files/DSA815_Photos.zip) (25MB). So have a look if you llike!

Of course that kept me from experimenting with the FRAM so far...but that will happen soon anyway ;) .

Cheers,
Thomas
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: TurboTom on August 16, 2016, 05:57:56 pm
Okay, bad news for all who own a DSA815(TG) with the 00.01.04 bootloader: I just removed the write protection from the FRAM in my DSA and updated the firmware to 00.01.17. Before the update I had more than 34 hours of trial time on all options. After the update the "Option Type" for AMK, EMI and VSWR was set to "Trial" (TG is official) and the new SSC (2FSK) "None". But the time of all trial options was reset to zero, i.e. they were set inactive. Apparently, this information is also written to the FRAM since a downgrade to firmware 00.01.16 now didn't reactivate the trials (like it did with the FRAM write protected). Basically speaking, this new update steals your trial time and only the official options prevail.

I guess I'll contact Rigol with this issue and ask for a reactivation key for the trials (and possibly also a trial for SSC) -- I'm quite curious about their reaction.

Anyway, this could mean that the update options for "write-protected" DSA815s with bootloader 00.01.04 end at firmware version 00.01.16. I guess if this is the case, Rigol will have a hard time selling their DSA815 / 832 in future since there's a better alternative available...

Cheers,
Thomas


P.S. I read the complete FRAM contents before this experiment so I can actually write it back with the "old" options enabled, this only requires some soldering. But I prefer to wait for Rigol's answer first.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: TurboTom on August 17, 2016, 10:05:08 am
Surprise, surprise! Apparently, the firmware update to 00.01.17.00.04 has enabled the 10Hz RBW option on my DSA815-TG! Though I didn't find this specified anywhere. Either the new firmware must have enabled this or my "messing around" with up- and downgrading several times.

Okay, I just re-checked: If I downgrade to 00.01.16, the minimum RBW is again 100Hz, after the upgrade to 00.01.17 it returns to 10Hz.

So I'm quite surprised why Rigol didn't report this in their changelog, or maybe it's unintentional, a "bug" so to speak  ;D. I love these kinds of bugs...

Now it's a hard decision, rather have the trial options or the 10Hz RBW. I guess for me the 10Hz is more valuable since I hardly used the options for anything else than playing around, while I often whished I had better frequency resolution. Lets see, if this "bug" gets eliminated in the next update...or if it's a "si(g)lent" improvement to have a better standing against the competitor 8).

Cheers,
Thomas
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: outremer on August 17, 2016, 08:56:42 pm
Hi all,

I just upgraded to firmware 00.01.17.00.04 (boot 00.01 04. Main board 00.09. RF board 00.05. Digital board 00.05) and yes the Resolution Bandwidth shows two more steps 30 Hz and 10 Hz. Though not documented in the firmware release notes it is there... and functionnal. I did never do any mod inside the SA. Concerning the options, all are out as they were under FW 00.01.16 and probably previously under FW00.01.09 which I didn't check before upgrading.

regards

Phil.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: xrunner on August 17, 2016, 09:50:59 pm
I upgraded also. I tested the JPG screen shot and it's still upside down. Guess that's just too hard to fix.  :palm:
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: rf-loop on August 18, 2016, 06:19:09 am
How it is now near carrier using 10Hz RBW.

Here in this image Siglent.  SSA run free with its own internal freq reference.
Signal source 8644B -004  free run with its own freq reference.
Input, 10MHz, true level exactly 10.0dBm (carrier 30Hz out from display)
RBW10Hz
100Hz from carrier < -90dBc/Hz
1kHz from carrier around -100dBc/Hz

Normalization from 10Hz RBW to 1Hz RBW  is of course 10dB but normalization from 10Hz RBW to 1Hz NBW is not 10dB, in this case it is roughly 7.5dB  and Marker function "Noise" do  this.

It now nice to see how this Rigol 10Hz RBW is useable near carrier. when there is some quite low spurs, example 50Hz mod etc.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/?action=dlattach;attach=248745;image)

I like to see same with Rigol
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: D3f1ant on August 18, 2016, 06:50:25 am
I have a PIC rewriting the eprom to reset the trial timers, does that still work with .17?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: K5HJ on August 18, 2016, 07:05:40 am
Surprise, surprise! Apparently, the firmware update to 00.01.17.00.04 has enabled the 10Hz RBW option on my DSA815-TG! Though I didn't find this specified anywhere. Either the new firmware must have enabled this or my "messing around" with up- and downgrading several times.

Okay, I just re-checked: If I downgrade to 00.01.16, the minimum RBW is again 100Hz, after the upgrade to 00.01.17 it returns to 10Hz.

So I'm quite surprised why Rigol didn't report this in their changelog, or maybe it's unintentional, a "bug" so to speak  ;D. I love these kinds of bugs...

Now it's a hard decision, rather have the trial options or the 10Hz RBW. I guess for me the 10Hz is more valuable since I hardly used the options for anything else than playing around, while I often whished I had better frequency resolution. Lets see, if this "bug" gets eliminated in the next update...or if it's a "si(g)lent" improvement to have a better standing against the competitor 8).

Cheers,
Thomas

This is awesome. Great news. I hope Rigol doesn't decide it was an error and withdraw it.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on August 18, 2016, 11:56:28 am
I revised the Howardlong 'attachments' (my copy and paste into a Word Doc.) in Reply 790 with some notes (in Red) and the current Reply # for the main post info for those of you with the newer DSA815s with Boot version 00.01.04.  I recommend contacting Howard for his comments and suggestions, because his FRAM piggybacked PIC may be your answer to 'saving/keeping' all the Options and now getting the 10 kHz RBW with FW 00.01.17.
Good luck.

Edit: Changed the word 'getting' to 'saving/keeping' in the original phrase 'answer to getting all the Options', because once they are gone they probably (?) can't be recovered by restoring the FRAM data.  This is just my guess.  I hope that I'm wrong on this though.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: TurboTom on August 18, 2016, 01:52:19 pm
@rf-loop --

initially I rearranged your setup with my SSA3021X(+) to check my signal source (first picture).
I decided to do this after I tried a Rigol DG4102 directly on the DSA815 but since the figures were 20dB worse than your measurement, I considered it may also be the generator. After that I used an LPFRS-01-10M rubidium oscillator, attenuated to 0dBm -- just to find the results on the DSA815 to be identical for all practical means. Since now the LPFRS was heated up and properly attenuated, I did all further measurements with this (second picture - yellow trace is the DG4102 as source, the purple one is the LPFRS). The two spurs just next to the carrier are at 63 and 198Hz above the 10MHz carrier. These spurs are generated by the DSA815 otherwise they wouldn't have been identically present in the spectra of both sources. They may be the frequencies of the control loops of some internal LO PLLs. So regarding this near-field performance, the DSA is about two orders of magnitude worse than the Siglent.

But things almost reverse if you look further off the carrier. Hence I extended the span to 100kHz in the next two screenshots. I kept the narrow-span trace on the screen since I changed the RBW setting to 100Hz in order to finish the measurement in this lifetime. Here's one peculiarity with the Siglent: If changing frequency and span settings, the Rigol analyzer also stretches, shifts or compresses "frozen" traces so at least the relevant section of them can be compared to active traces. The Siglent instrument just continues to display the frozen trace on the screen as it was recorded so there's no use of them for comparison after frequency or span have been altered. Room for improvement I would say. Anyway, in these two Screenshots the peculiar phase noise distribution of the Siglent analyzer once again becomes obvious: The noise is lowest approx. 3kHz off of the carrier while it increases by round about 15dB 40kHz off the carrier to gradually drop then to an exponential relaxation profile. In contrary to this, the Rigol has a phase noise profile that's more or less directly exponential without any dips close to the center frequency but which is in general more narrow than on the Siglent.

This means the Siglent is clearly better suited for measuring low modulation sidebands in the audio range than the Rigol.

The last screenshot finally shows that the noise level is completely independent of the attenuator setting. The purple & cyan traces were recorded at 10dB attenuation while the yellow trace was recorded at 0dB attenuation. One thing to notice here is that the Rigol tolerates a signal of 0dBm at its mixer input (before its starts "screaming") while the Siglent is limited to -10dBm. This means, the Rigol can tolerate stronger signals elsewhere in the spectrum while monitoring a weak signal. This doesn't affect phase noise performance of course, as it's easy to see in the picture.


@D3f1ant --

I'm almost certain that you won't have luck with the PIC circuitry to reprogram your FRAM if you install the new firmware. I guess the new firmware somehow reorganizes the usage of the FRAM, otherwise the WP mod should have worked. The (current) PIC circuitry will only re-write 8 bytes at address 0x200. If now for example there are separate timers for each option (and there's more than enough unused space for this in the FRAM), the result of reprogramming only the aforementioned eight bytes is unpredictable. Either I would revert to the WP configuration (though I didn't test if in this case, FW00.01.17 will enable the 10Hz RBW feature - but at least you can always go back to 00.01.16 to use the other options) or wait with the update until more information is available.  Maybe we'll have to analyze a new DSA that comes from the factory with the new firmware and all the trials enabled. Yet, I don't know which hobby user would buy a Rigol DSA these days when he can have the Siglent for round about the same money...


Cheers,
Thomas
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Howardlong on August 18, 2016, 03:52:44 pm
So to summarise for 1.04 bootloader versions:

o 1.16 still works with or without any FRAM fiddling;
o 1.17 ignores any previously trial time, and will also erase any trial time if the FRAM isn't write protected;
o If the FRAM is write protected, you can downgrade the firmware back to 1.16 and the trials reappear.

Is this a fair representation?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on August 18, 2016, 04:20:58 pm
So to summarise for 1.04 bootloader versions:
  o 1.16 still works with or without any FRAM fiddling;
  o 1.17 ignores any previously trial time, and will also erase any trial time if the FRAM isn't write protected;
  o If the FRAM is write protected, you can downgrade the firmware back to 1.16 and the trials reappear.

Hello Howardlong:
What happens with FW 00.01.17 and Boot version 00.01.04, if the FRAM is write protected with your PIC piggyback configuration?  Will the options be available and be retained?  In any case I assume that the 10 kHz RBW will be available now.
Thank you, Ted
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: rf-loop on August 18, 2016, 05:21:15 pm
@ TurboTom

Did you use noise Marker in Rigol.
Have you noted this.
If I look Rigol images with my retired eyes and marker measured numbers (dBm/Hz) it looks like it do plain RBW normalization. (10 x log(RBWa/RBWb)) In this case RBWb is 1Hz.
Normalization to noise need do for NBW1Hz not to gaussian like RBW. Not big deal but around 2.5dB "error".  (too low measured values)
But also analyzing with eyes where exatly is marker level in image is not perfect - but it looks like this.
Siglent do it right.

Let's  hope   later Siglent add feature where user can select phase noise optimization  for  near carrier or "usual" phase noise what may rise near carrier pn lvl but lower far carrier pn level  as they like follow Agilent and there is this selection. (there in Agilent AN can see what I mean)
.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Howardlong on August 18, 2016, 08:53:01 pm
So to summarise for 1.04 bootloader versions:
  o 1.16 still works with or without any FRAM fiddling;
  o 1.17 ignores any previously trial time, and will also erase any trial time if the FRAM isn't write protected;
  o If the FRAM is write protected, you can downgrade the firmware back to 1.16 and the trials reappear.

Hello Howardlong:
What happens with FW 00.01.17 and Boot version 00.01.04, if the FRAM is write protected with your PIC piggyback configuration?  Will the options be available and be retained?  In any case I assume that the 10 kHz RBW will be available now.
Thank you, Ted

I haven't tried yet, before looking I wanted to understand the current known status, can you confirm my precis is reasonable, or have I misunderstood anything?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on August 18, 2016, 09:54:04 pm
I haven't tried yet, before looking I wanted to understand the current known status, can you confirm my precis is reasonable, or have I misunderstood anything?
Howardlong:
Yes, this is what has been reported, and you are correct for the case where U1105 just has pin 7 and 8 soldered together.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: TurboTom on August 18, 2016, 11:51:32 pm
@rf-loop --

as you suggested, I selected "Noise Marker" from the Marker Functions menu. I'm not sure if in the DSA815 this is processed correctly or not. Still got so much to learn...and this will probably never change  ;)

@all who may be interested in this --

I just did some more experimenting: I downgraded my DSA to 00.01.16 and flashed my image of the FRAM that I took before the initial update to 00.01.17 - sure enough the 34 odd hours of trial time reappeared. After that I updated again to 00.01.17 and the trial time was deleted. Then, while already the new firmware was installed, I re-flashed the old FRAM image and started the analyzer -- well, "goneski" Dave would tell (or "ne rabotayet" as the Russians may say) -- the analyzer wouldn't behave differently than directly after the F/W update. This leads me to the assumption that the PIC modification also won't work after the F/W update. What I did and what I will provide here for those who may have a better understanding of the software details than I do, is taking records of the FRAM contents before (trial time valid) and after the update to F/W 00.01.17 (trial time deleted). It was quite an ugly setup to read/write the FRAM but fortunately the epic mess on my desk around the setup isn't shown in the photo  ;D

Cheers,
Thomas
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: CustomEngineerer on August 19, 2016, 12:06:19 am
Rigol has been known to add unannounced new features in firmware updates before, so I would think this would be an intentional feature to help compete with the newer Siglents. You would think they would want to announce it when adding new useful features but for whatever reason they usually don't. No idea why.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: danny_isr on August 19, 2016, 01:44:58 am
So to sum this up,
If i install the new firmware i get better resolution but losing the ability to extend the "trail options" by soldering the two pins.
So if i go ahead with the new update, can i re-install/roll back the old firmware if desire ?

my 815 is still in the trial period, and i haven't open the case.

thanks
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: TurboTom on August 19, 2016, 09:53:05 am
@danny_isr --

if you install firmware 00.01.17 on a machine with older firmware and still remaining trial time, this trial time will be lost. The FRAM chip contents will be extensively modified and reverting back to the previous firmware will not bring you back your trial time unless you can also restore the FRAM contents - and as far as I know, that's not possible without opening the case and some "special" equipment.

Cheers,
Thomas

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: dav on August 19, 2016, 09:59:54 am
@TurboTom:
I'm just curious to know what is the name of that strange blue adaptor attached on the FRAM.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Howardlong on August 19, 2016, 10:07:26 am
@danny_isr --

if you install firmware 00.01.17 on a machine with older firmware and still remaining trial time, this trial time will be lost. The FRAM chip contents will be extensively modified

Do we know that or is that a supposition from the behaviour?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: TurboTom on August 19, 2016, 11:21:08 am
@dav --
I don't tknow the exact "designation" of this adapter, it's quite old. I would call it an "SO-Package Test Clip". And look what a Google search yields: https://www.google.de/#q=so+package+test+clip (https://www.google.de/#q=so+package+test+clip)

@howardlong --

Yes we know that. Please see the attached file comparison between my "frozen" FRAM contents that kept the options valid for me up to F/W 00.01.16 and the contents after the WP of the FRAM chip has been disabled and the DSA had been updated to F/W 00.01.17. I even tried just modifying the eight bytes that supposedly count the power-on hours of the machine in the new FRAM file with the old values (just as your clever PIC mod would do) without any success.

I guess (but I'm not sure) the options are not coded in FRAM but somewhere in the program flash. The FRAM just holds parameters that are changed frequently. If you look through the dump, there are many dword integer numbers (like 750M, 1.5G, 150M, 2M, 3M...) that appear to configure center frequency, span, BW and whatsoever. Even the calibration constants don't seem to be stored in FRAM, they are apparently contained in program flash. Hence it's probably not very useful to further poke around in the FRAM, in order to "liberate" the options the program code will have to be analyzed -- and I'm not the right one for this job -- unfortunately  :-\

Cheers,
Thomas
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Howardlong on August 19, 2016, 03:15:40 pm
Good info.

It may also be that trials are completely disabled in 1.17.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: TurboTom on August 25, 2016, 09:25:32 am
So the 10Hz RBW to be found first with F/W 00.01.17 is an official feature now and no "bug". Good to know that it will stay like this even with future F/W updates. Now we only need to figure out how to "liberate" the options or re-enable the trial period on the machines supplied with the newer bootloader...  8)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Howardlong on August 25, 2016, 12:34:59 pm
I guess we need to have evidence that 1.17 even supports trial versions at all.

I'm pretty time-poor at the moment so I can't see me having a look at this any time soon.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on August 28, 2016, 11:08:58 pm
Yesterday I found a Rigol DSA800 Application Note that looked very interesting.  This is about saving a general prefix name for DSA800 screen-shots saved on a USB Flash Drive that is very easy to edit for saving.  Of course you have to keep some notes to remember what each PDF file covers.  Even so, I found this as a big improvement and convenience for me.  And of course once I get it on my computer it is easy to edit the file name to be fully descriptive.

The original Rigol App. Note is attached below (DSA800 file prefix save.pdf), although I found it of little value.  But, at least I was able to figure out it's intent, which I put in a file named 'How to Easily Name and Store DSA815 Screen-Shot Files .pdf'.

I hope some of you also find this information useful.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: 9a4wy on August 29, 2016, 07:58:47 am
There is new Firmware available for the DSA815:  DSA815 Firmware_00.01.17.00.04
To get this you can go to > http://int.rigol.com/Support/SoftDownload/3 (http://int.rigol.com/Support/SoftDownload/3)   Then go to > Spectrum Analyzer.   Then Download > DSA815 Firmware_00.01.17.00.04

V00.01.17    2016-08-15
-----Added the SSC fuction
-----Cleared the LAN communication trouble
-----Resolve the front panel switch control problem

Yes, it is safe to install, and all options are still there for all the older DSA815's with Boot loader 00.01.02 and .03.  Enjoy . . .   See my previous post (Reply #784) to see the full System and Firmware Information after doing the FW upgrade.

Edit: I Do Not have the newer version DSA815 that TurboTom (Thomas) describes in his post below (Reply #786). If you have a Newer DSA815 with Boot loader version 00.01.04 then be sure to at least read post's (Reply #) 786, 787, and 790 ( * ->   may very well be a potential fix for the newer DSA815s).

FYI - All older DSA815's/TG (with Boot loader 00.01.02, 00.01.04) are all working fine as is with this Firmware upgrade.  

            Ted572

In installing instruction for FW 01.17 says that it supports only boot ver.  00.01.04 and later....
So it's safe to install this FW on machines with old bootloader?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on August 29, 2016, 12:06:09 pm
Re. In installing instruction for FW 01.17 says . . . .

Don't worry about the installation instructions you quoted.  This is for all hardware, software, and firmware versions of the DSA815.  Although those that have a newer DSA815 with Boot loader 00.01.04 may want to hold off on this firmware upgrade(?), due to loosing the options if their U1105 has pins 7 and 8 soldered together to retain the options.  Although they will get the 10 kHz RBW as a great trade-off.  If you decide later that you want an option you always purchase it.  To understand the 10 kHz RBW issue with newer units, simply read a few posts back on this page to get the flavor of it.

Edit: If anyone is in doubt about the viability of using this firmware on older DSA815's, contact Rigol Technical Support and ask them.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Gertjan on August 29, 2016, 01:51:57 pm
Hi,

Can anybody supply me with DSA815 firmware 01.16?

I have a DSA815 with the newer boot loader 01.04, and would like to retain my trial options.
But of course now only the latest FW 01.17 is available from the official download sites...

Please mail me the firmware (e-mail is in my profile), or just post it here on the forum…

Thanks & regards, Gertjan.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Gertjan on August 29, 2016, 05:28:56 pm
Hi Ted572,

Firmware 00.01.16.00.03 received, and installed.
SA is working fine with 01.16, including the trial options. Thanks!!  :-+

Now I have the time to decide if I want to keep my DSA815 like this (with options, but no future updates), or upgrade for the 10Hz RBW  now, and future bug fixes  :)

regards, Gertjan.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ermeneuta on August 29, 2016, 05:48:07 pm
Weird question... has anybody tried to flash the DSA815-TG with the new firmware for the DSA832-TG ?
Maybe the two hardware are equal, just the firmware determines the maximum frequency range... just hoping...

Alberto, with a just bought DSA815-TG,  see screen capture
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ermeneuta on August 29, 2016, 06:13:17 pm
Are we sure that the hardware is different ? I read the opposite on another discussion group, not specifically related to the Rigol.

Alberto

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ermeneuta on August 29, 2016, 08:35:22 pm
Are we sure that the hardware is different ? I read the opposite on another discussion group, not specifically related to the Rigol.

Alberto

Huuu... it looks like the message I was answering to has disappeared... was it removed by the originator ?

Alberto

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: TurboTom on August 29, 2016, 08:40:22 pm
Alberto -
you've only got to read the specs of the 815 vs. the 832 carefully, especially concerning the weight of the two units. Unfortunately, they are not identical. I think Shahriar also did a teardown of a higher-frequency DSA800 model and if I remember correctly, there were one or two more separate metal RF boxes inside than in the 815.

And now for some interesting news: About ten days ago, I sent an email to Rigol (their international contact email) and complained about the lost trial time of the "bonus functions" (after I updated to 00.01.17 and the Wp pin on the FRAM was disconnected from Vdd again of course). Today, I received an email from Rigol Germany with the hint that it isn't always a good idea to install the latest firmware since side-effects like the observed loss of trial time may always occur. But they included new trial licenses for the lost options  :clap: . So far I didn't have the time to install them (because it will take more than necessary for just entering the codes you bet...). I'll post new findings as I proceed.

Cheers,
Thomas


Edit: clarification
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ermeneuta on August 29, 2016, 11:06:07 pm
Alberto -
you've only got to read the specs of the 815 vs. the 832 carefully, especially concerning the weight of the two units. Unfortunately, they are not identical. I think Shahriar also did a teardown of a higher-frequency DSA800 model and if I remember correctly, there were one or two more separate metal RF boxes inside than in the 815.

Well, this unfortunately closes the issue... too bad... if the weight is different, then obviously the two hardware are not the same...

Thanks for the clarification.

Now I have to find a way to enable the SWR option, and the 10 Hz RBW on my 1.15 firmware. Going to 1.17 will give me the 10 Hz RBW, but will wipe away the remaining 34 or so hours of the trial... at least this is what I understand from previous posts...

Alberto
 
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ermeneuta on August 31, 2016, 09:37:26 am
I found the attached message on another forum, which was originated from a knowledgeable person.

Comments anyone ?

Alberto

============================================================
Hi Frank, all

Actually Rigol appear to make only two types of SA (Spectrum Analyser),
one with a tracking generator, one without.

The actual specification is defined from its software, ie its a FPGA
(Field Programmable Gate Array) device controlling & operating an SDR
(Transceiver when the Tracking Generator is installed). The FPGA
processor also drives the display & network interface.

Certainly early versions of the 815 (1.5GHz) SA could be "up-rated" to
an 830 (3.0GHz) SA. I have seen one of these and it certainly works as
well at 3HGz as it does at 1.5GHz. Indeed a search of the web will
reveal some useful info on how to do this "mod".

Newer software updates seem to have a checksum or similar procedure that
prevent this mod taking place.(i.e. only the correct software can be
installed) I suspect as a means of revenue protection.

HTH
============================================================


Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: thebobster on September 23, 2016, 09:32:26 pm
I have been scouring the user manual and various communities and cannot find the answer to the following question:

On the DSA-815, is there a way to capture the frequencies of momentary signals within a given frequency range?

I am trying to capture frequencies in use within a given band and log them and am using Peak Tables and am trying to set a “peak hold” to track frequencies of short-duration ephemeral signals and continuously display or log them, as the peak table displays frequencies of signal it detects but clear off the screen immediately, before I have a chance to record them.

Also, regarding option trial times.  Does the time decrement continuously when the SA is running, or only when an advanced option that uses the trial license iis enabled?   

Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: xrunner on September 23, 2016, 10:59:22 pm
On the DSA-815, is there a way to capture the frequencies of momentary signals within a given frequency range?

I am trying to capture frequencies in use within a given band and log them and am using Peak Tables and am trying to set a “peak hold” to track frequencies of short-duration ephemeral signals and continuously display or log them, as the peak table displays frequencies of signal it detects but clear off the screen immediately, before I have a chance to record them.

I think you need the trace type to be "Max Hold" when you wish to keep all the peaks in the table, "Clear Write" will not, as you have seen.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: TurboTom on September 24, 2016, 08:33:51 am
I have been scouring the user manual and various communities and cannot find the answer to the following question:

On the DSA-815, is there a way to capture the frequencies of momentary signals within a given frequency range?

I am trying to capture frequencies in use within a given band and log them and am using Peak Tables and am trying to set a “peak hold” to track frequencies of short-duration ephemeral signals and continuously display or log them, as the peak table displays frequencies of signal it detects but clear off the screen immediately, before I have a chance to record them.

This strongly depends on the duration of your momentary signals vs. the scan time of the analyzer. Since the Rigol DSA is a sweeping spectrum analyzer, it looks at a given time interval only at one frequency. There are SAs that analyze a whole interval at a time (FFT anlyzers) and depending on the "instantaneous span" they get really dear. So as long as your signal duration is longer than the sweep time of your analyzer over the relevant span, you will be fine with the "Max Hold" trace setting as "xrunner" pointed out. If not, it's a mere coincidence if you catch the signal or if you miss it.

Quote
Also, regarding option trial times.  Does the time decrement continuously when the SA is running, or only when an advanced option that uses the trial license iis enabled?   

Thanks in advance!

As far as I know, the trial time is running down as long as the DSA is switched on. For the latest firmware, it isn't even clear if there are trials available. As yet, I wasn't able to activate the recently provided new trial licenses since I couldn't delete the old, (after the firmware update) expired ones. But I didn't have much time to look at that yet.

Cheers,
Thomas
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: autoelectra on September 24, 2016, 02:56:15 pm
Hello,

Can anybody supply me with DSA815 firmware 01.16?

I have a DSA815 with the newer boot loader 01.04, and would like to retain my trial options.
But of course now only the latest FW 01.17 is available from the official download sites...

Please mail me the firmware (e-mail is in my profile), or just post it here on the forum…

Thanks & best regards, oliver
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Gertjan on September 24, 2016, 05:15:22 pm
Hi autoelectra,

I sent you a PM with link to the requested firmware.
Let me now if you have any problems.

regards, Gertjan.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: autoelectra on September 24, 2016, 07:02:33 pm
Dear Gertjan,

Thank you very much for help, it works fine.
I think, to get the trial options with bootloader 01.04 and version 16 again, it´s important, that the solder-jumper has been set before the updating to version 17.

Best regards
Oliver
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: TurboTom on September 24, 2016, 07:32:36 pm
Dear Gertjan,

Thank you very much for help, it works fine.
I think, to get the trial options with bootloader 01.04 and version 16 again, it´s important, that the solder-jumper has been set before the updating to version 17.

Best regards
Oliver

Doesn't make a difference -- I tried both ways, always the remaining trial time was set to zero.
But for me, the 10Hz RBW outweighs the loss of the trial options. Sooner or later, I guess, a way to permanently enable the options will be found anyway.

Cheers,
Thomas
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Gertjan on September 25, 2016, 04:45:34 pm
Later DSA815 hardware versions do indeed have a lower noise floor!

There were indications that later hardware versions of the DSA815 are having a lower noise floor than earlier versions.

I checked this when I was at a friend, who has an older DSA815 (main board version 0.04). I compared his noise floor with my DSA815 (main board version 0.08).

And indeed, the noise floor of my DSA815 was about 10dB lower!
I compared at different frequency ranges, spans and RBW's.
We also checked the built-in pre-amplifier, but couldn't find any differences.

So, it seems that Rigol is a manufacturer who is silently improving his products. 
(Earlier photo's showed that later hardware versions do have better input protection. Off coarse the DSA815 is a best selling product for them, for a long time now.)

Regards, Gertjan.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: pascal_sweden on September 25, 2016, 04:59:39 pm
So the noise floor of the Rigol is getting closer to the Siglent?

Initially there was 20 dB difference between both. Now the Siglent is still 10 dB better?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on September 25, 2016, 05:00:07 pm
Loss of Options with FW .17 and recovering them with FW .16    I don't have a DSA815 with Boot Loader version .04, although this is what I understand from reading the results of those with it:
 
If you have U1105 pins 7 and 8 soldered together when you install FW .17 the Options will be gone, but they will come back when FW .16 is re-installed.  In this case U1105 pins 7 and 8 have been connected together at all times during this period.

If you go into FW .17 with U1105 pins 7 and 8 disconnected and install FW .17, or you disconnect them while FW .17 is installed, the Options will be gone forever.  And in this case it won't help to go back to FW .16 (game over).

Please, if anyone knows that if this is post is wrong, let me know, and I will delete the post.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: rf-loop on September 26, 2016, 08:32:56 am
So the noise floor of the Rigol is getting closer to the Siglent?

Initially there was 20 dB difference between both. Now the Siglent is still 10 dB better?

Who knows.
Without comparable data we can only quess.

Here is Siglent SSA3000X
Center frequency 1296 MHz (RA  23cm band)
Span 100kHz
RBW=VBW 10Hz
Atten 0
Ref level -70dBm
Traces A and D  detector VideoAverage
Traces B and C  detector Sample  (as typical for DANL measurement this sample detector output Trace averaged 50 times)

Traces A and B   Pre Amplifier OFF
Traces C and D   Pre Amplifier ON

SSA Input terminated using 50ohm N terminator.




(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/?action=dlattach;attach=258403;image)

These are Displayed Average Noise Levels (DANL) using 10Hz Resolution Bandwidth filter (-3dB 10Hz  and 3/60dB shape factor 1:<5)
If normalize these to 1Hz gaussian like  RBW  just subtract 10dB (This method can not use for normalize RBW level to Noise BW level. Some spectrum analyzer may use this wrong method for noise levels)
If normalize these to 1Hz Noise BW correctly  then subtract around 7.5dB (if right corr factor is ~2.5dB (if want more deep explanation start with Agilent AN-150)

I hope someone can do - exactly - same with new generation DSA815
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: TurboTom on September 26, 2016, 09:53:31 pm
Since time didn´t permit more testing tonight, I only recorded the trace with the sample detector, averaged over ten sweeps since the Rigol is much slower at 10Hz RBW than the Siglent. In order to keep scan times within reason, I manually increased sweep speed at 100kHz span (hence getting the "uncal" warning) but I also added a 1kHz span measurement with the proper sweep speed to show the results are the same for all practical means. I would say the differences regarding the noise floor between the two SAs are marginal (in this configuration that is). My DSA815 is a 00.08 hardware and it´s running the 00.01.17 firmware.

And now for some very peculiar news: The evaluation options that got disabled after the firmware update miraculously decided to become active again  :o ! Don´t ask me, I don´t know why and how this has happened. A collegue was using the SA for some time (he´s an experienced EE but not too familiar with the SA). When I powered up the device today, the trial options were online again and of course I immediately shorted the WP pin of the FRAM -- once again the trial time is frozen  ;D

I can provide an FRAM dump if anyone´s interested.

Cheers,
Thomas


(Edit: Typos and clarification)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: egonotto on September 27, 2016, 03:57:51 pm
Hi

attached some pictures from DSA815
As it is very slow i changed sweep speed

Best regards
egonotto

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: pascal_sweden on September 27, 2016, 08:00:31 pm
Who is giving the Rigol vs Siglent noise floor verdict based on the screenshots? :)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: rf-loop on September 28, 2016, 08:22:57 am
Who is giving the Rigol vs Siglent noise floor verdict based on the screenshots? :)

It is not aat all so simple that we can set SA for some settings and then other spectrum and look images and then give simply answer.
There is many things what affect to displayed noise level.  It is also important to understand what is noise and how spectrum analyzer work and so on. Basic thing is that original noise is random and chaos.  Now if we use say example peak detector, what is mostly as default when we use SA. Because noise is chaotic random freq and random level peaks, it depends how long time we collect data using some limited filter. Spectrum is sweeping (or sequantially fast  hopping). More fast sweep and less collected data for every frequency point. So propability to just detect highest peak with this freq spot is low. If stop (or slower speed) and collect more data it takes some amount of time before there exist most high peak.  Simply it can say, more slow sweep and more high noise level you see until reach peak max noise with this noise what is there. (it is never theoretical pure random white noise, it exist only in theory books)
Also it need note that different spectrum analyzers may have different BW filter shape. Also if go to more deep also detectors may have differencies.

If I have here class room I can demonstrate it easy. Using different speeds and using different Detectors and different trace draw modes. If start with P-Pk detector and then use Max-Hold. Start and look how this noise level start from low and start rise. Wait a 10s it is more high, go to coffee break and come back it is sure reached top. Just because wo collect more and more data from random noise Peaks.

For random noise level: Peak Detector is (mostly) wrong. But, because mostly for sinusoidal type of signals we use peak detector it is of course important because noise peaks are what we then see in practice. But, we need also know that many things affect what is level what we see.   For characterize SA base noise most good is VideoAverage and level setting Log Power.  It give same average if use detector mode Sample. But if usse this it may need least 50 time Trace Averaging for reliable tell noise averace. DANL is Displayed(!) Average Noise Level. 


But before write one book about noise and SA lets stop it.  Real apple to apple comparation between different equipments is easy but also difficult. many things affect some amount. So nitpicking with some 1-3 dB's is waste of time. Until we start doing science and really have instrumets for make science. In many cases I can see Siglent is bit better if look overall noise levels but


I want take here now one example. @egonotto  first image.
There is 1MHz RBW, 0-1500MHz range and sweep time 50ms (bit fast, perhaps compromize with accuracy and speed so that speed have more weight)


Hi

attached some pictures from DSA815
As it is very slow i changed sweep speed

Best regards
egonotto


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/?action=dlattach;attach=258666;image)



Here same with Siglent.  (first image)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/?action=dlattach;attach=258822;image)
But now also, using different sweep speeds and detector mode P-Peak as used also in Rigol.
I have used 24ms, 96ms (UNCAL is for these speeds), 1s and 10s sweep time (over 1500MHz Span)
I have added 434MHz -40dBm signal so that it can also see that SA detect it.
(There read UNCAL because SA normal speed is over ~140ms for this span for this accuracy what designer have wanted to reach when he select nominal speed for default)
In this case UNCAL is because 24ms is really too fast for reliable peak measurements. There exist also nearly blind spots in freq span with this speed but, this is just for demonstrate how speed affect to visible noise level)




Then



(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/?action=dlattach;attach=258824;image)
There is also other thing . There is two sweep modes in Siglent, Sweep and FFT sweep.
There may be (and also there is) noise level differencies between these two modes.
Example with Sweep mode FFT there is 10Hz RBW  and then look noise level using 30Hz RBW with Sweep mode Sweep. RBW 30 show  more low noise average than FFT mode RBW 10Hz.



Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Mara on September 29, 2016, 10:52:31 am
Hello everyone, i am new in the forum... :) I have read the various discussion present in the forum, but I still have ideas a little confused about the upgrade to firmware 1.17 of my DSA815-TG ... I have the latest hardware version of the Instrument with the original firmware 1.09 and the pin 7 and 8 of the Fram memory welded together to keep the trial options... If I do upgrade to the 17.1 to get the 10 Hz RBW, I lose the options Ok, but then if I do a downgrade to version 1.16 for instance, my trial options will still be available? Many thanks to those who will give me a definite answer to this question.  :-// Mara
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: TurboTom on September 29, 2016, 11:04:01 am
@ Mara --

yes this is exactly how it turned out on my DSA815 when I installed the 0.01.17 firmware. So no worry, as long as the FRAM is write protected, you can always reactivate your trial options by returning to the 0.01.16 firmware.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ormandj on September 29, 2016, 04:41:51 pm
01.18 is out:

V00.01.18    2016-09-26

-----Reslove Ultra Spectrum problem
-----Perfect the SSC fuction
-----From this version,
      Do not support the downgrade operation,
      If special need ,please contact RIGOL technical support
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Howardlong on September 29, 2016, 04:57:09 pm
01.18 is out:
<snip>
      Do not support the downgrade operation,


... and, with it, sales dry up until another hack is found!
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Mara on September 29, 2016, 08:06:03 pm
Thank you very much for your information Thomas. As soon as I will do the upgrade to version 1.17, and the inverse test with downgrade to 1.16 I will let you know ... In the meantime, there is news of the new version 1.18 which no longer provides for the downgrade ... I am afraid that I will stop at 1.17 for a long time ... Hi  :=\
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: nctnico on September 29, 2016, 08:17:26 pm
01.18 is out:
<snip>
      Do not support the downgrade operation,

... and, with it, sales dry up until another hack is found!
Could this be a prelude to Rigol plugging holes for hacks in other equipment?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: TheSteve on September 29, 2016, 08:19:15 pm
01.18 is out:
<snip>
      Do not support the downgrade operation,

... and, with it, sales dry up until another hack is found!
Could this be a prelude to Rigol plugging holes for hacks in other equipment?

Doubtful - they put out effort to prevent hacking of the DSA815 a long time back, so nothing has really changed.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: tautech on September 29, 2016, 08:19:50 pm
01.18 is out:
<snip>
      Do not support the downgrade operation,

... and, with it, sales dry up until another hack is found!
Could this be a prelude to Rigol plugging holes for hacks in other equipment?
:-DD
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: xrunner on September 29, 2016, 10:53:08 pm
Installed latest update here - screen shot still saved upside-down LOL ...  :o
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on October 29, 2016, 12:37:11 pm
List of DSA815 RF Front-End/IF Components – Rev B, 11.04.2016
This document applies to DSA815s with RF/Digital FPGA Boards 00.05 (Boot 01.02 and 01.03), and Newer Units with Main Board 00.07 and above, with Boot 01.04) with notes. i.e. * Newer Units . . .

This describes the IF Frequencies, Mixers, LO Frequencies, the on board LEDs that tell you which LO is currently active, etc.  This architecture is valid for all versions of the DSA815s with the different Main Boards.  I didn't provide a  schematic or block diagram (I could have) just because I didn't need any except for my personal hand sketches I made while tracing it out.  You will be able to construct it yourself if needed, as I described it clearly in order of signal flow from SA Input through the Last IF (DSP Input).

You will find the Front-End through the last IF (DSP) active, PIN diodes, and Mixer components (with Manufacturer and P/N) for the the DSA815 with Main Board up to v. 5.  And most for those with Main Board v. 7 and above.

Please See the attsched PDF file.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Zucca on November 03, 2016, 10:38:10 pm
FYI, long time not here so I don´t know what the current state of the hack is...

I have a:

Main Board 00.04
RFB FPGA    00.05
DB FPGA     00.05
Boot           00.01.03

went from FW 1.09 to 1.18 and only the SSC-SDA option is not active, the others are still there.
Hacked the DSA back in 14/05/2014 installed sucessfull with FW 1.08 with riglol (I did not soldered nothing on the unit):

1 - AAAB - Tracking Generator (do not enter it, already active by default)
2 - AAAC - Advanced Measurement Kit
3 - AAAD - 10Hz RBW
4 - AAAE - EMI/Quasi Peak
5 - AAAF - VSWR

Oh wait the 3- 10Hz is no more there, I got a new option SSC-SDA to activate ... any suggestions  >:D?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on November 04, 2016, 12:32:00 pm
01.18 is out:
      Do not support the downgrade operation,

... and, with it, sales dry up until another hack is found!
I think the FW is written by Siglent.   ;D
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on November 04, 2016, 12:40:17 pm
ted572;
This attachment is a .pdf. But, the file is labeled as a .txt. There are also formatting errors; split sentences running into additional unnecessary lines.  ;)

Here is a single page .txt version correcting formatting errors
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: pamphonica on November 07, 2016, 05:37:30 pm
Just to clarify, I have an older 1.03 bootloader and currently run 1.06 f/w (on a 0.04 mainboard).
I have all the options opened up fine (thank you wonderful EEVbloggers) and would like to keep them!

The latest f/w available is 1.18 and it is clearly marked "no downgrades possible from this release".

It sounds risky to go on this one-way trip just in case all resets itself.

I suppose really should just do the 1.17 upgrade - does that sound sensible?

And if so where could I get it?

Many thanks

Jeremy
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Zucca on November 08, 2016, 07:40:00 am
Just to clarify, I have an older 1.03 bootloader and currently run 1.06 f/w (on a 0.04 mainboard).

Like me, I was there!

I have all the options opened up fine (thank you wonderful EEVbloggers) and would like to keep them!

Did you soldered anything or just used the riglol crack SW?

If you did not soldered anything on your DSA, with FW1.18 all your options will be still there... but the 10Hz RBW will be per default active an not showing in the list anymore. There will be also a new option SSC-SDA which will be deactive, and it seems nobody hat yet got the way to activate it.

Just look my post here on this page, just scroll 10cm up.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg1063159/#msg1063159 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg1063159/#msg1063159)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: K1JOS on November 10, 2016, 03:29:49 am
Can someone PM me copies of firmware 016 and 017?  Many thanks in advance!!

Jerry
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Gertjan on November 10, 2016, 09:10:18 am
Hi K1JOS,

You have got a PM.......

regards, Gertjan
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: K1JOS on November 10, 2016, 05:48:22 pm
Are all the updates cumulative?  I currently have all options active and on v 1.08 but with FPGA v 00.04.   I don't have firmware v 1.13 which I understand was critical in upgrading FPGA to v 00.05.  Can I use a later firmware version like 15, 16 or 17 to get the FPGA upgrade or must I find v 1.13 somehow?

tia

jerry
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Gertjan on November 10, 2016, 05:51:43 pm
Hi K1JOS,

My e-mail answer to you bounced again (Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender)
So I answered via the EEVblog PM. so check your IN box...

regards Gertjan.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: pamphonica on November 12, 2016, 12:20:58 am

Did you soldered anything or just used the riglol crack SW?

If you did not soldered anything on your DSA, with FW1.18 all your options will be still there... but the 10Hz RBW will be per default active an not showing in the list anymore. There will be also a new option SSC-SDA which will be deactive, and it seems nobody hat yet got the way to activate it.

Just look my post here on this page, just scroll 10cm up.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg1063159/#msg1063159 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg1063159/#msg1063159)

I just used the software crack successfully.  I think I'll give it a try with 1.18.  10Hz RBW sounds fine!
Thanks for the info
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: pamphonica on November 13, 2016, 02:02:53 pm
Thanks for all your supportive comments and PMs.  My DSA815-TG is now happily running 1.18, with all options still working well.
Jeremy
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Zucca on November 14, 2016, 01:50:03 pm
all options still working well.

Even the SSC-SDA? If yes drop me a PM please o let us know how to do the magic.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: lost_bro on December 07, 2016, 06:45:19 pm
I have a DSA815 with old Bootverision 01.02. With firmware version 01.07 all licenses with the key generator were entered. I have not used the write protection of the FRAM.
The firmware was updated step by step up to current firmware 01.18.

Now I have entered a trial license for the SSC-DSA option, and then activated the write protection of the FRAM.
After switching on, the trial time is counted down, but after a new start the time starts again with the time of the write protection activated.

Peter

Good day All
First I would like to thank all the members here who have dedicated their time to furthering the hackability of the Rigol DSA815-TG.

I just purchased the DSA815-TG and wanted to say that it came with All functions operational as Trial with 35 plus hours out of the box, except for the SSC-DSA option.

I have attached photos of the license screen.

My questions is; since the wanted options are enabled now, should I do the FRAM write mod.?

I see from the above that the mod. does indeed work with  the 1.18 firmware, but what about the *new* hardware that this model has?

All ideas and opinions are welcome, as I really want to keep the VSWR option functional.

Thanks
take care, peace
lost_bro

EDIT: added firmware photo.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Tekwhat on December 15, 2016, 08:06:09 pm
I have a DSA815 with old Bootverision 01.02. With firmware version 01.07 all licenses with the key generator were entered. I have not used the write protection of the FRAM.
The firmware was updated step by step up to current firmware 01.18.

Now I have entered a trial license for the SSC-DSA option, and then activated the write protection of the FRAM.
After switching on, the trial time is counted down, but after a new start the time starts again with the time of the write protection activated.

Peter

Good day All
First I would like to thank all the members here who have dedicated their time to furthering the hackability of the Rigol DSA815-TG.

I just purchased the DSA815-TG and wanted to say that it came with All functions operational as Trial with 35 plus hours out of the box, except for the SSC-DSA option.

I have attached photos of the license screen.

My questions is; since the wanted options are enabled now, should I do the FRAM write mod.?

I see from the above that the mod. does indeed work with  the 1.18 firmware, but what about the *new* hardware that this model has?

All ideas and opinions are welcome, as I really want to keep the VSWR option functional.

Thanks
take care, peace
lost_bro

EDIT: added firmware photo.

I'll have a new DSA815 in my hands shortly. Good to hear that there will be some trial options available out of the box. I too am interested in knowing what the best method is at the moment for fully activating those trial features. I've done quite a bit of reading, but I assume my unit will come with new firmware, which may prohibit some of the available hacks.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: airlomba on December 21, 2016, 11:17:18 pm
Hello everyone,

First of all, let me thank you all for all the precious informations shared in this topic. I will try to do my part now, as much as possible from me. I just finished reading all 35 pages of posts in this topic and I must say that I learned a lot. Thank you all!

Now, I own one DSA815-TG since February and so far, I am happy with it; although, I have not given it much use until recently.
Right now, my SA has the latest firmware available (1.18) as shown below. Also, this SA hasn't been hacked, opened or modified.

(http://www.airlomba.net/ADB/imagens/eevblog/1.jpg)

One thing I read in some topics (page 22), is about the "missing steps" in the power sweep. So, I tried to replicate this function and I think the thing has been solved as you may see in the picture below:

(http://www.airlomba.net/ADB/imagens/eevblog/7.jpg)

If anyone would like me to do some experiments, please feel free to ask. Also I need the experiment procedure detailed so I can do exactly what you want (as long as it doesn't imply to open the instrument).

Now for the down side of updating my SA to the latest firmware version. Before the update I had firmware version 1.12 and about 23 hours of trials left. The update process went smoothly without a problem, except that, at the end, my trial timers were set to ZERO. I contacted the SA vendor (in Europe) and they provided me some new trial licenses for some of the options I still wanted to try. I installed the licenses as per normal procedures, they got installed, but the option aren't active, as one can see in the following screenshots. The final result is that I have the trial timers with 36 hours but the options inactive... |O

(http://www.airlomba.net/ADB/imagens/eevblog/3.jpg)

(http://www.airlomba.net/ADB/imagens/eevblog/2.jpg)

(http://www.airlomba.net/ADB/imagens/eevblog/8.jpg)

Contacted the vendor again (as a pivot to reach Rigol) and the answer was that Rigol said that there may be some incompatibility between the hardware and the new trial licenses... I will try to contact directly Rigol Europe or whatever to try to solve this issue. Any feed back I have, I'll post here just in case it may be useful to someone.

Best regards to all,
Emmanuel.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: TurboTom on December 22, 2016, 06:52:43 am
I had exactly the same issue with mine. Funny thing is: After some time of use (must have been 10 to 20 hours), the original trial licenses magically reactivated themselves with full 35 odd hours (noticed only some five hours later since a colleague was using the instrument). Before that I tried everything to uninstall the old trial licenses to make the newly provided ones the only and active ones -- without success. I guess all this relates to a new number format in FRAM for the time totalizer Rigol has introduced with f/w 1.17. Anyway, after the trials reappeared, I quickly closed the WP jumper and the trial time is frozen again...
Greetings,
Thomas
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: airlomba on December 22, 2016, 08:11:13 am
I had exactly the same issue with mine. Funny thing is: After some time of use (must have been 10 to 20 hours), the original trial licenses magically reactivated themselves with full 35 odd hours
Oh! I remember reading your post about this, but seem I forgot about it! :)
I guess that as soon as I'll get home, I'll turn on the SA, even before I remove my coat. Hopefully, I'll get the trials back on time just before bed time. :-DD
Tomorrow I'll inform about the success or not or this "recipe".
Cheers!
Emmanuel.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Pinkus on December 24, 2016, 11:36:48 am
I had exactly the same issue with mine. Funny thing is: After some time of use (must have been 10 to 20 hours), the original trial licenses magically reactivated themselves with full 35 odd hours (noticed only some five hours later since a colleague was using the instrument). Before that I tried everything to uninstall the old trial licenses to make the newly provided ones the only and active ones -- without success. I guess all this relates to a new number format in FRAM for the time totalizer Rigol has introduced with f/w 1.17. Anyway, after the trials reappeared, I quickly closed the WP jumper and the trial time is frozen again...
Greetings,
Thomas
I can confirm that the above procedure works. Somebody with this device had the same problem after upgrading to Firmware 1.18. He also got new license codes from Rigol which were not working (same as above). I then told him what Tom wrote. He tried it out and he just reported that, after approximately 18-21 hours runtime (with some short breaks for a restart for checking if it is now working) his licenses suddendly were reanimated.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: airlomba on December 24, 2016, 02:57:38 pm
Hello,
I am hoping for the best, since I didn't try yet the VSWR and AMK options. I had the SA turned ON yesterday for about 3 hours. Today I just turned it ON again, and will remain in this state during until I go to bed.  :box:
I will post my results as soon as I get them or give up. I'll give it a maximum of 36 hours running, that's as long as the new trial periods. See you soon.
Regards,
Emmanuel.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: airlomba on December 24, 2016, 05:30:44 pm
Well, that didn't take too long.   :phew:
Having my SA turned ON since my last post (plus a few hours on the other day), I've been using it to play around with a Colpitts oscillator... The result is as shown in the pictures below: I have my trial periods back on time! :-+

The first picture below shows the Option Info page, exhibiting that the options became active, again.

(http://www.airlomba.net/ADB/imagens/eevblog/20.jpg)

What is curious about this, is the comparision between the two following pictures.
The first one shows the License Info page before the timer restarted counting down. The second image shows the same page, after the timer restarted counting down. The curiosity is in the fact that only the old license codes (2, 4 and 5) are counting down and not the last installed ones provided by Rigol (3 and 6).

(http://www.airlomba.net/ADB/imagens/eevblog/3.jpg)

(http://www.airlomba.net/ADB/imagens/eevblog/21.jpg)

Finally, I publish a last image showing the Measure menu with working colors (instead of grey).

(http://www.airlomba.net/ADB/imagens/eevblog/22.jpg)

Thank you all for your help in this topic in general, and with my issue in particular.
Now I am looking for a cheap VSWR bridge to evaluate the VSWR option. ;)

Best regards to all,
Emmanuel.

Edited to correct some images links.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: TurboTom on December 25, 2016, 01:22:16 am
@airlomba

I made a DIY return loss bridge that performs quite well. You find some information about it here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssa3000x-spectrum-analyzers/msg1013579/#msg1013579 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssa3000x-spectrum-analyzers/msg1013579/#msg1013579)

If there's serious demand for a more detailed instruction on how it's constructed, I may prepare a write-up and post it here (or maybe in a thread of its own).

Merry Christmas,
Thomas
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: airlomba on December 25, 2016, 07:50:17 pm
@TurboTom

Thank you for the reference of your RLB, from what I've read in the topic you pointed, it an excellent bridge. I already am looking for the parts in order to build one like yours. If I have troubles, I'll come back to you. Again, thank you.

@ted572

It look like you have done a good job on your SA. However, I feel that I am missing something here. Please forgive me for my probable lack of vision. If the shunt between pins 7 and 8 is to write protect the FRAM, in order to keep the trials infinite, why did you use a switch? I mean, what is the point of reopening this shunt? In which case, would it be interesting/useful to be able to write to the FRAM again? Thank you.

Best regards,
Emmanuel.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on December 26, 2016, 01:29:18 am
The Rigol Firmware 00.01.18 Installation Notes state that this version 'Doesn't support downgrade back to previous FW versions'.
This statement is only valid for the newer DSA815's with Boot Loader version 00.01.04.


DSA815's with Boot Loader 00.01.02/3 still allow installation of the previous Firmware versions.
If you are interested in the required method please see the provided attachment.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Nebulex on December 27, 2016, 09:57:43 pm
First of all I would like to thank  all of you who contributed to finding a way to make the DSA815 hackable. 

@572
I looks like when ever I change something that needs to be written in to the FRAM i.e the IP address the actual timerr value of the trail version counter are going to be written to the FRAM.


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Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Nebulex on December 27, 2016, 11:08:22 pm
this Text should have been attached to the last message but I accidentally hit send to early    :palm:

Here at my findings about the upgrading to firmware 00.01.18. They might be useful for the ones of you who are in doubt if an upgrade is good option. I had pin 7 and 8 shunted on my DSA815 with boot version 00.01.04  and could therefore stay on 27 hours of trail time for the options. Just before upgrading from firmware 00.01.16 to 00.01.18 I removed the shunting between pin 7 and 8, upgraded and the trail time was set to 0. After letting my SA stay on for exactly the time that was left before the trail timer was set to 0 the 36 hours of trail time reappeared after reboot.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Nebulex on December 30, 2016, 10:11:08 pm
If you shunt pin 7 and 8 after your trail time reappeared it still counts down but after a reboot it will always start right at the time after shunting the pins. So with boot version 00.01.04 you can also keep the trail time for ever :-+  :phew:
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on January 12, 2017, 11:51:10 pm
RF ‘Return Loss Bridge’ Suggestions for the DSA815-TG user on a limited Budget

I listed below two Chinese RF Return Loss Bridge units that are available from ebay at reasonable prices that generally meet their advertised Return Loss specification of 35 dB minimum. The advantage in these two units is that they are supplied in rugged aluminum cases, and can be opened easily for tweeting/improving their return loss performance.  As supplied they perform much better than the popular Mini Circuits directional coupler that a lot of the Hams are using, or even the expensive Rigol model VB1020 VSWR Bridge (a nice looking package, but with poor performance and specifications).
I’m not affiliated in any way with these suppliers, and simply wanted to offer some easy to work with suggestions for Return Loss Bridges for those that may be interested in something that works relatively well for a very reasonable investment cost.   
1. This is a Chinese Return Loss Bridge for 1 to 500 MHz that is rated at -35dB Return Loss that can be purchased for about $40 USD.  Although, I suggest (Item 2.) the 1 to 1,000 MHz unit below for about $20 USD more for its extended frequency range, nicer construction, and easier to work on while assembled.
Example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-1-500-MHZ-reflection-bridge-standing-wave-bridge-rf-bridge-/291539579585?tfrom=302125570443&tpos=top&ttype=coupon&talgo=undefined (http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-1-500-MHZ-reflection-bridge-standing-wave-bridge-rf-bridge-/291539579585?tfrom=302125570443&tpos=top&ttype=coupon&talgo=undefined)
2. This is a Chinese Return Loss Bridge for 1 to 1,000 MHz that is rated at -35dB Return Loss that can be purchased for about $60 USD.  This one is my preferred choice due to its being easier to adjust for improved performance than the 1 to 500 MHz unit above.
Example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-1-1000MHz-1GHz-reflection-VSWR-bridge-bridge-bridge-RF-SWR-bridge-/131329059012?hash=item1e93d268c4:g:RY4AAOSwr81USGVL (http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-1-1000MHz-1GHz-reflection-VSWR-bridge-bridge-bridge-RF-SWR-bridge-/131329059012?hash=item1e93d268c4:g:RY4AAOSwr81USGVL)

Caution: Do not do any adjustments or tweaking if you do not have a excellent 50 Ohm Termination such as a Mini Circuits (MCL) model KARN-50-18+, N male connector, 2 Watts, DC to 18GHz, $14 each (brand new, directly from Mini Circuits).  Also do not make any adjustment if your not fully familiar with a Return Loss Bridge, haven't Normalized your SA with the RLB (with a 'UUT' Open) between the TG Output and SA Input.  If in doubt , don't do anything to your new RLB!
Even without any adjustments these units should perform very well for you.
Additional reference info:  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg583550/#msg583550 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg583550/#msg583550)
See the (*.doc) attachment for RLB pictures and a Response Plot of the 1 GHz unit.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on January 13, 2017, 01:06:32 am
Using the DSA815-TG 'Power Sweep' Mode to Measure a RF Active or Passive Device's Linearity.  e.g. RF Amplifier, Mixer, RF Limiter, etc.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: orin on January 13, 2017, 02:09:41 am
How could you use a KARN-50-18+ to adjust one of these?  The minimum return loss for the KARN-50-18+ is 35dB for DC-1MHz according to the Mini Circuits data sheet.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on January 13, 2017, 03:20:44 am
How could you use a KARN-50-18+ to adjust one of these?  The minimum return loss for the KARN-50-18+ is 35dB for DC-1MHz according to the Mini Circuits data sheet.

Hello 'orin':  Where did you get that a 'KARN-50-18+ is 35dB for DC-1MHz' from?
The Mini Circuits KARN-50-18+ is specified to be typically better than 40 dB Return Loss from DC to 6 GHz.  And I have never seen one that didn't have a 50 dB Return Loss up to 1 GHz, and often up to 2 GHz.  I know that they are not specified to be this good, but Mini Circuits has always provided these to us with much better performance than they specify.  Yes, even by 10 dB better at these lower frequencies.  Anyway I'm confident that they will work great for the devices we are concerned with here.
KARN-50-18+ Specification is attached below.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: orin on January 13, 2017, 06:14:19 am
How could you use a KARN-50-18+ to adjust one of these?  The minimum return loss for the KARN-50-18+ is 35dB for DC-1MHz according to the Mini Circuits data sheet.

Hello 'orin':  Where did you get that a 'KARN-50-18+ is 35dB for DC-1MHz' from?
The Mini Circuits KARN-50-18+ is specified to be typically better than 40 dB Return Loss from DC to 6 GHz.  And I have never seen one that didn't have a 50 dB Return Loss up to 1 GHz, and often up to 2 GHz.  I know that they are not specified to be this good, but Mini Circuits has always provided these to us with much better performance than they specify.  Yes, even by 10 dB better at these lower frequencies.  Anyway I'm confident that they will work great for the devices we are concerned with here.
KARN-50-18+ Specification is attached below.

The minimum spec. in the datasheet.

Sure, the ones you tested may well be 50dB return loss (As a point of interest, what standard did you use to compare with?  Even the HP 909C/F with N connectors I have would struggle to can't do that.), but unless you can verify a given unit, you cannot assume it's better than the minimum spec. in the datasheet which is 35dB return loss.

So, whereas I feel you could use a KARN-50-18+ as a standard to get a reasonable degree of confidence that a bridge specified at 35dB return loss is OK, I don't think it's a good idea to adjust a bridge to match a KARN-50-18+'s return loss unless the KARN-50-18+ has been verified against a better standard.

I suppose I could order a KARN-50-18+ or two and see what they look like on an 8753C, but as I said, I don't have standards good enough to measure a 50dB return loss.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on January 24, 2017, 04:06:38 pm
SMA Finger Wrench: If you use SMA connectors you may be interested in a SMA Finger Wrench.  I recommend the one below, but with the easy modification that you can do to them as shown in the attached images.
Bracke 'SMA Finger Wrench' P/N BM30012 at -> http://www.brackemfg.com/ (http://www.brackemfg.com/)  And please note that they will currently supply up to five (5) free samples to qualified users.
You can see details of the SMA Finger Wrench here -> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMA-Finger-Wrench-plastic-20-pieces-per-order-/322392860356?hash=item4b101ca6c4:g:H2oAAOSwo4pYfQ-G (http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMA-Finger-Wrench-plastic-20-pieces-per-order-/322392860356?hash=item4b101ca6c4:g:H2oAAOSwo4pYfQ-G)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: razvanm on February 02, 2017, 12:04:25 pm
Hi guys,

I run a DSA815-TG unit with :

Version of Main Board: 00.04
Version of Radio Frequency Board FPGA: 00.05
Version of Digital Board FPGA: 00.04
Version of Firmware: 00.01.09
Version of Boot: 00.01.02

Can somebody please share the firmware files for 00.01.09 and 00.01.12? Links on the previous posts are broken and I got a strange answer to my update request from Rigol.

I need the older files in case my unit will refuse to boot after an unsuccessful upgrade to 00.01.16.

Thank you!
Razvan
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: razvanm on February 02, 2017, 01:56:21 pm
Received a PM with everything needed. Thank you!
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: pa4mic on February 17, 2017, 08:57:13 pm
Hi all,

I follow this great thread for some time but now have an question because i'm not 100% sure how to handel at this moment.

I have boot version 00.01.04 with firmware 00.01.09, the main board version is 00.08, radio board 00.05, digital board 00.04 and want to update to the latest firmware 1.18 version. The FRAM is write protected with 35hours of trails left.

-The first question is can i update from 1.09 directly to 1.18 without problems or do i need to make an step between is first?

-The second question is when i update to 1.18 must i leaf the FRAM protection in and after that the trails will be set to zero and then let the sa on for at least 10 hours or must it 35hours as i read some where? After that the trails will be alive again?

-And the last one is there still some one working on an new hack and need some dumps to help or something els, i'm willing to help with that where i can.

Thx all

Michael
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: N8AUM on February 18, 2017, 03:40:31 am
pa4mic

I think I read in a previous post that ver 18 WILL NOT allow you to downgrade so you end up losing whatever options are being kept safe with the FRAM's pins 7 & 8 shorted. You will lose options when going to version 17 but if you need them you can go back to version 16

good luck !!!

73  N8AUM
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Nebulex on February 18, 2017, 08:30:14 am
@pa4mic
Remove the FRAM protection, upgrade to 1.18 then you will lose your trail option for exactly the time that was on your trail counter. After that trail time will reappear.  You can shorten the FRAM again and keep the trail time. See also my posts #870 - #872. This worked on my DSA815.




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Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on March 16, 2017, 10:38:17 pm
Anyone interested in a 815TG in MINT condition with around 100 hrs PM me. (US only)  :-+
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Daruosha on March 25, 2017, 12:57:53 pm
I'm pretty much confused with minimum RBW figures of DSA815. On Rigolna.com, the minimum RBW is mentioned at 10Hz, on rigol.eu and int.rigol.com, it has been mentioned at 100Hz, on all online manuals, it's 10Hz, but in all reviews people saying it's 100Hz.

Recently i bought a new unit and it goes down to 10Hz, but in spans more than 150KHz, it shows UNCAL sign when I reduce the RBW to less than 30Hz.

Same confusion applies for DANL and phase noise. What's going on with Rigol?!?

Also somewhere in the forum i read there some SCPI commands to read and dump the memory of the device. I wonder can I use the same technique we used to unlock DS2000 series scope to generate the keys for DSA815? shorting the pins is not the best idea when it comes to warranty and future risks.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Daruosha on March 25, 2017, 02:28:20 pm
I'm pretty much confused with minimum RBW figures of DSA815. On Rigolna.com, the minimum RBW is mentioned at 10Hz, on rigol.eu and int.rigol.com, it has been mentioned at 100Hz, on all online manuals, it's 10Hz, but in all reviews people saying it's 100Hz.

Recently i bought a new unit and it goes down to 10Hz, but in spans more than 150KHz, it shows UNCAL sign when I reduce the RBW to less than 30Hz.

Same confusion applies for DANL and phase noise. What's going on with Rigol?!?

Ok, found the answer. It was a new feature added from firmware 1.17.  Rigol websites are a mess.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: geggi1 on April 02, 2017, 09:52:45 pm
Hi all!
I guess this is a stupid question.
I have  a DSA 815TG with boot version 00.01.04 with firmware 00.01.09. and no time left on the trial options.
If i upgrade to a newer firmware will the trial options timer be reset?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: airlomba on April 03, 2017, 11:42:24 am
Hi all!
I guess this is a stupid question.
I have  a DSA 815TG with boot version 00.01.04 with firmware 00.01.09. and no time left on the trial options.
If i upgrade to a newer firmware will the trial options timer be reset?
Hi,

I don't ahve the experience necessary to answer correctly your question, but I think that since your trial periods have ended, you have nothing to loose by updating your firmware. In fact, you'll get the 10Hz RBW! ;)

Kind regards,
Emmanuel.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Daruosha on April 03, 2017, 11:48:30 am
Hi all!
I guess this is a stupid question.
I have  a DSA 815TG with boot version 00.01.04 with firmware 00.01.09. and no time left on the trial options.
If i upgrade to a newer firmware will the trial options timer be reset?

Updating firmware has no effect in your time-trial options. If your options are expired, you won't gain extra time or anything else.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: geggi1 on April 04, 2017, 05:20:04 am
I was hoping that it might reset the trial timer  :-)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: danny_isr on April 07, 2017, 05:35:12 pm
I'm in the same boat as you. This thread is a bit long and hard to follow what is the bottom line. I have one that still in trail. And would like to know as well.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: TurboTom on April 07, 2017, 07:58:57 pm
Why would one buy a DSA815TG (unless at substantially reduced price) while at virtually the same expense the SSA3000X is avalable that's better in almost every aspect?

To answer your question -- currently there's no known method to permanently hack the recent versions of the DSA815. There's the FRAM WP "trick" that freezes your trial time that's granted with new machines but that has some unpleasant side effects (some other user settings won't get stored anymore).

Cheers,
Tom
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: danny_isr on April 08, 2017, 07:44:47 am
"Why would one buy a DSA815TG (unless at substantially reduced price) while at virtually the same expense the SSA3000X is avalable that's better in almost every aspect?
"
Because we already own one
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: videobruce on April 08, 2017, 12:41:00 pm
Some guys prefer a more established company. While Siglent isn't brand new, their track record is shorter and they are less known.  ;)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on May 07, 2017, 10:13:42 pm
Please see -> https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sniffing-the-rigol's-internal-i2c-bus/msg1196690/#msg1196690 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sniffing-the-rigol's-internal-i2c-bus/msg1196690/#msg1196690)  especially if you have a DSA815 with the newer Main Board Hardware version 7 and above and want to get the Options License installed.  This could be a false alarm, but please consider this. . .
Important! See EDIT 5/10/2017 added below:   
Good day everyone,
My DSA-815TG runs with the current Firmware 1.18 under Hardware 0.04 and boot loader 1.03. Generating keys with RIGLOL and activating the same under 1.18 works perfectly fine, the 10Hz RBW option was accepted but obviously has no effect as this option is available per default these days. All other options except for the last one are active as expected.
Raj
Hello Raj: I understand from reading your post that you installed the Rigol Options with firmware 00.01.18 installed.
Although this is the first time that I have heard of anyone being able to use the Riglol Keygenerator for installing Option License Codes on DSA815 firmware 00.01.09 and above.  Are you sure that you installed your options with firmware (FW) version 00.01.18?
History: When Rigol introduced firmware 00.01.09 it was no longer possible to use the the Riglol Keygenerator to activate the Options.  We had to revert back to FW 00.01.08, or earlier to get the Options activated.  And as long as we had BootLoader .02, or .03 we could do this with the 'Boot Method'.  Although those with BootLoader .04 could not because this BootLoader did not allow the FW Boot Method to work any longer.  It is the newer FW (.09 and later) that prevents the Keygenerator from working, and it is BootLoader .04 that prevents using the FW Boot Methode from working any longer.
If Raj's experience is correct, then it may then be possible for users with the new Main Board Hardware (V. 7 and above) to also install the Options.  This would be fantastic news for them, and these users could give it a try (with Caution!, at their own risk) to see if it works.

EDIT 5/10/2017: I have not heard of this working for anyone.  Therefore I recommend avoiding experimenting with this method.   Sorry for the false alarm, although if it had worked several DSA815 users would have been very happy. . .

The following links depict how users have been able to Recover Lost Trial Options with FW 00.01.18:   https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg1139507/#msg1139507 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg1139507/#msg1139507)   https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg1035627/#msg1035627 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg1035627/#msg1035627)   https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg1096397/#msg1096397 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg1096397/#msg1096397)   https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg1098206/#msg1098206 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg1098206/#msg1098206)   https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg1098284/#msg1098284 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg1098284/#msg1098284)   https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg1098337/#msg1098337 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg1098337/#msg1098337)   https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg1100397/#msg1100397 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg1100397/#msg1100397)   https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg1102736/#msg1102736 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg1102736/#msg1102736)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Daruosha on May 08, 2017, 07:45:40 pm
Please see -> https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sniffing-the-rigol's-internal-i2c-bus/msg1196690/#msg1196690 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sniffing-the-rigol's-internal-i2c-bus/msg1196690/#msg1196690)  especially if you have a DSA815 with the newer Main Board Hardware version 7 and above and want to get the Options License installed.  This could be a false alarm, but please consider this. . .   
Good day everyone,
My DSA-815TG runs with the current Firmware 1.18 under Hardware 0.04 and boot loader 1.03. Generating keys with RIGLOL and activating the same under 1.18 works perfectly fine, the 10Hz RBW option was accepted but obviously has no effect as this option is available per default these days. All other options except for the last one are active as expected.
Raj
Hello Raj: I understand from reading your post that you installed the Rigol Options with firmware 00.01.18 installed.
Although this is the first time that I have heard of anyone being able to use the Riglol Keygenerator for installing Option License Codes on DSA815 firmware 00.01.09 and above.  Are you sure that you installed your options with firmware (FW) version 00.01.18?
History: When Rigol introduced firmware 00.01.09 it was no longer possible to use the the Riglol Keygenerator to activate the Options.  We had to revert back to FW 00.01.08, or earlier to get the Options activated.  And as long as we had BootLoader .02, or .03 we could do this with the 'Boot Method'.  Although those with BootLoader .04 could not because this BootLoader did not allow the FW Boot Method to work any longer.  It is the newer FW (.09 and later) that prevents the Keygenerator from working, and it is BootLoader .04 that prevents using the FW Boot Methode from working any longer.
If this is correct, then it may then be possible for users with the new Main Board Hardware (V. 7 and above) to also install the Options.  This would be fantastic news for them, and these users should at least give it a try to see if it works for them!


Sorry to disappoint you, but i tried the keygen on my unit with the board version 0.09 and the firmware 01.18 (factory installed) and the keys didn't work.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: smgvbest on May 08, 2017, 11:51:07 pm
Please see -> https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sniffing-the-rigol's-internal-i2c-bus/msg1196690/#msg1196690 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sniffing-the-rigol's-internal-i2c-bus/msg1196690/#msg1196690)  especially if you have a DSA815 with the newer Main Board Hardware version 7 and above and want to get the Options License installed.  This could be a false alarm, but please consider this. . .   
Good day everyone,
My DSA-815TG runs with the current Firmware 1.18 under Hardware 0.04 and boot loader 1.03. Generating keys with RIGLOL and activating the same under 1.18 works perfectly fine, the 10Hz RBW option was accepted but obviously has no effect as this option is available per default these days. All other options except for the last one are active as expected.
Raj
Hello Raj: I understand from reading your post that you installed the Rigol Options with firmware 00.01.18 installed.
Although this is the first time that I have heard of anyone being able to use the Riglol Keygenerator for installing Option License Codes on DSA815 firmware 00.01.09 and above.  Are you sure that you installed your options with firmware (FW) version 00.01.18?
History: When Rigol introduced firmware 00.01.09 it was no longer possible to use the the Riglol Keygenerator to activate the Options.  We had to revert back to FW 00.01.08, or earlier to get the Options activated.  And as long as we had BootLoader .02, or .03 we could do this with the 'Boot Method'.  Although those with BootLoader .04 could not because this BootLoader did not allow the FW Boot Method to work any longer.  It is the newer FW (.09 and later) that prevents the Keygenerator from working, and it is BootLoader .04 that prevents using the FW Boot Methode from working any longer.
If this is correct, then it may then be possible for users with the new Main Board Hardware (V. 7 and above) to also install the Options.  This would be fantastic news for them, and these users should at least give it a try to see if it works for them!


Sorry to disappoint you, but i tried the keygen on my unit with the board version 0.09 and the firmware 01.18 (factory installed) and the keys didn't work.

I can also confirm with a FW.16 Boot 1.04 it does not work
upgrade to FW.18 it does not work
and I've lost my trials going to FW.18
my board was a V8

so not a happy camper here.  I think there was something in this thread about getting the trial back so I need to go look

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on May 08, 2017, 11:59:12 pm
I can also confirm with a FW.16 Boot 1.04 it does not work
upgrade to FW.18 it does not work
and I've lost my trials going to FW.18
my board was a V8

so not a happy camper here.  I think there was something in this thread about getting the trial back so I need to go look

Hello Sandra:  I just sent you a PM with links to how you can recover your Trial Options.   Regards, Ted
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: smgvbest on May 09, 2017, 12:02:44 am
I can also confirm with a FW.16 Boot 1.04 it does not work
upgrade to FW.18 it does not work
and I've lost my trials going to FW.18
my board was a V8

so not a happy camper here.  I think there was something in this thread about getting the trial back so I need to go look

Hello Sandra:  I just sent you a PM with links to how you can recover your Trial Options.   Regards, Ted

got it,  thank you.  I will let it run and hope
i did see some reports of the time to run was related to how much you had left of your trial.  I had 34+ hours so it will be interesting if i have to leave it on for 34+ hours
started at 7:55pm and as of 5:25am still missing trials
as of this morning at 5:25am I now have my trials back after 34hrs of on time of the SA.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Daruosha on May 10, 2017, 03:26:04 pm
I can also confirm with a FW.16 Boot 1.04 it does not work
upgrade to FW.18 it does not work
and I've lost my trials going to FW.18
my board was a V8

so not a happy camper here.  I think there was something in this thread about getting the trial back so I need to go look

Hello Sandra:  I just sent you a PM with links to how you can recover your Trial Options.   Regards, Ted

got it,  thank you.  I will let it run and hope
i did see some reports of the time to run was related to how much you had left of your trial.  I had 34+ hours so it will be interesting if i have to leave it on for 34+ hours
started at 7:55pm and as of 5:25am still missing trials
as of this morning at 5:25am I now have my trials back after 34hrs of on time of the SA.

Just out of curiosity, could you downgrade ti the earlier version and recover the trial licenses?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: smgvbest on May 10, 2017, 03:45:13 pm
I can also confirm with a FW.16 Boot 1.04 it does not work
upgrade to FW.18 it does not work
and I've lost my trials going to FW.18
my board was a V8

so not a happy camper here.  I think there was something in this thread about getting the trial back so I need to go look

Hello Sandra:  I just sent you a PM with links to how you can recover your Trial Options.   Regards, Ted

got it,  thank you.  I will let it run and hope
i did see some reports of the time to run was related to how much you had left of your trial.  I had 34+ hours so it will be interesting if i have to leave it on for 34+ hours
started at 7:55pm and as of 5:25am still missing trials
as of this morning at 5:25am I now have my trials back after 34hrs of on time of the SA.

Just out of curiosity, could you downgrade ti the earlier version and recover the trial licenses?
I did not try to do that.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on May 10, 2017, 04:00:12 pm
Just out of curiosity, could you downgrade ti the earlier version and recover the trial licenses?

Hi Daruosha:  As I understand it with the Newer DSA815 (with Main Board 7 and above) that there is no way to return to a earlier FW version once you have installed FW 00.01.18.  And to install FW .18 you must have the 'FRAM Write Protect disabled' if you previously had it enabled (U1105 pin 7 & 8 soldered together).  And consequently when you install FW .18 you loose the Trial Options.  Although I understand that they can be recovered again as the following links say.  Please go to my post at -> https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg1203247/#msg1203247 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg1203247/#msg1203247)  and visit the links at the bottom, for how others have recovered the Trials.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: danny_isr on May 10, 2017, 08:08:56 pm
I wonder if someone can explain what those options actually do, and how useful they really are?
I understand that the RBW 10Hz option is now available for everybody. So does the average user really needs the other options ?
I'm not an RF guy (obviously), and i would like to understand if this is something that as a hobby SA will i ever need that ?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: robots on May 11, 2017, 08:54:44 am
I accidentaly flashed wrong firmare into dsa815, and it killed serial number, TG license and all calibration. They don't check in bootloader 01.02 what model is the firmware for, they just flash it - over calibration region.

Rigol is asking 700EUR for recal, or 850EUR for new board + shipping cost !!!.

Could someone with bootloader 01.02 help me ? and send flash dump (complete, using command ":SYST:FRE?") so i can find the place where the serial number is located and fix it. I want to have at least TG working :)

Or if someone knows how/where is the sn stored, could you give me hint ?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on May 12, 2017, 11:54:29 am
For continuity on the discussion about the DSA815 with the newer Main Board Hardware version 7 and above with BootLoader 4, where we want to get the Options License installed;  See ->  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sniffing-the-rigol's-internal-i2c-bus/msg1205818/#msg1205818 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sniffing-the-rigol's-internal-i2c-bus/msg1205818/#msg1205818)  -  For comments regarding DSA815 BootLoader 2/3 vs 4, format for installing the Option serials, the DSA815 'FW Install Boot Method', etc.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: smgvbest on May 13, 2017, 09:34:01 pm
granted, however the DSA815 support boot from USB and the blackfin supports uart boot.  so if we have the boot code in LDR format and put that on a USB drive or load via uart to get 1.03 in then could we not backload FW1.0x then?
Hi Sandra:  The Blackfin's interface capability can be limited/overridden by the instructions from the Boot Loader. Or purposely left out by the hardware designer for expediency because it wasn't required for the task.  I think that the current .04 Boot Loader most likely preempts doing this, so I think someone will have to directly force a .03 Boot Loader (or equivalent) in place of the .04.
I don't have any vested interest here, because I have the original hardware with all of the permanent Options (so far anyway).  If I had the newer unit I would be charging into this relentlessly with a DSA815 open on my bench, to try to at least understand high level system architecture used.  I did this for my units Front End, LOs, Mixers, and IFs through to the DSP.  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg1059060/#msg1059060 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg1059060/#msg1059060)
You may want to consider sketching out your units digital control logic, as it may help shed more light on all this.  Most of the ICs have vendor P/Ns, and some have SMT Codes.  Doing this with Peter's info may help pull it together.
EOT and Cheers, Ted

Edit:  This discussion should back here -> 'Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815'

Trying to move this back here,  I thought reading your message you thought it belonged in the other thread which is why I put it there.
my comment on the bootloader is based on when you power on the DSA it shows to press 'PRESET' to boot from U-DISK.  so could we possibly put a 1.03 Boot loader or 1.06 FW on at that point?  has anyone tried?   I realize we don't know what file it's looking for  but a USB protocol analyzer might help there. 
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: smgvbest on May 13, 2017, 11:59:51 pm
So what I found so far is if a *.sys file is on a USB Drive and plugged in it will read it and immediate try to flash it.
you power on and hold preset it will read the USB Drive and install the file on there.  I reinstalled 1.18 this way and didn't loose my trials this time.
I do not have a older FW file though to try
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: robots on May 14, 2017, 03:22:06 pm
I think Cybernet should be able to shed more light on the boot sequence of the DSA. It should be very similar (if not same) as DS2000. He also developed u-boot for this platform. But i dont think its possible to contact him :-/.

It would also solve my problem with deleted serial number. I could write the flash and fix the unit.

Ultimate goal would be to flash uboot instead of the rigol's bootloader and load any firmware.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sniffing-the-rigol's-internal-i2c-bus/msg581433/#msg581433 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sniffing-the-rigol's-internal-i2c-bus/msg581433/#msg581433)

Here are some other notes on the architecture:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sniffing-the-rigol's-internal-i2c-bus/msg581767/#msg581767 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sniffing-the-rigol's-internal-i2c-bus/msg581767/#msg581767)

I think i have stumbled on the problem with shadowed address lines. I am getting very inconsistent memory readouts.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: robots on May 14, 2017, 06:26:24 pm
I dont know if such thing is available, but i wrote this tool to split .sys update file into blocks as they are written into the flash. Written in python.
firmware 18 has these blocks:
00080000 - firmware, compressed by unknown compression
00180000 - main fpga (screen, memory)
00270000 - rf fpga
00290000 - texts (buttons, UI)
00294000 - texts in diff language
00298000 - ditto
0029c000 - more of them
002a0000 - firmware for FX2 (usb slave chip)
002b0000, 002ec1b0 - font ?
00300000 - help
00320000 - help in cn
00340000 - text messages
.. more texts in diff languages
00370022 - version number
0037f000 - 0002 ? idk
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: robots on May 16, 2017, 07:36:57 pm
Update on DSA815-TG.

DO NOT EVER NEVER EVER DO:
when booting press F3 will ERASE EVERYTHING, serial number, model number everything. This is very tempting right now, but it will put your device into factory clean state!!

- DSA815-Tg hardware is not able to work on frequencies >1.5GHz. I thought it might be only locked by software. I changed my model from DSA815 to DSA830. While i could tune pass 1.5GHz, the signal would be disappear at about ~1518Mhz. Maybe missing vco for higher range.

- DSA815 serial number, mac address, model number, can all be changed by simply running update with proper .sys file.

- save your flash content when playing with this equipment.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: smgvbest on May 17, 2017, 03:55:30 am
What are you using to save your flash content?  JTAG Dump?  are you using OpenOCD or other tool?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: robots on May 17, 2017, 05:09:28 pm
scpi works pretty well.

Jtag has access to only part of FLASH memory at time and you have to switch it. Like mentioned here : https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sniffing-the-rigol's-internal-i2c-bus/msg581767/#msg581767 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sniffing-the-rigol's-internal-i2c-bus/msg581767/#msg581767) but the address of the fpga is different for DSA. I dont know how it works yet.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: cybernet on May 17, 2017, 10:04:28 pm
never done much with the DSA except verifying that it used the same crypto algos back then (posted my DSA ida in the other thread).
But what you wanna do is, take openocd + gdb for blackfin, and step through the bootup process. if memory serves right execution started somewhere 0xef000000 as init vector (the blackfin datasheet is your friend), and then u trace through it. probably an LDR stream somewhere that gets then copied to RAM and executed, find the copy action, then dump the RAM blocks and you will have a boot loader image. reassemble that as an LDR stream.


here is a sample for a lcd test tool for the ds2000, and creating a RigolDsExe.ldr which the ds2000 will happly execute from an USB stick. (maybe the DSA does too, never tried, give it an endless loop and see if it hangs actually)

files below are posted in the other thread.

Code: [Select]
#!/bin/bash

CC=/opt/uClinux/bfin-elf/bin/bfin-elf-gcc

rm *.o
$CC -nostartfiles -nodefaultlibs -c init.S -Iinclude -mcpu=bf526 
$CC -nostartfiles -nodefaultlibs -c main.c -Iinclude -mcpu=bf526 
$CC -nostartfiles -nodefaultlibs init.o main.o -T bfin.ld -o my.elf
bfin-uclinux-ldr -T bf526 -c --dma 6 RigolDsExe.ldr my.elf
bfin-uclinux-objcopy --gap-fill=0xff -O binary my.elf my.bin
cp my.bin /var/lib/tftpboot/
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: robots on May 18, 2017, 09:09:45 am
cybernet:
Bootloader on DSA is different. There is no mention of direct loading of LDR. Maybe it has to be packed in .SYS file. I will check that.
Did you ever release that u-boot for ds2000 ?

On the calibration data lost:
I have been able to take "calibration" data from another DSA, and load them into this one. At least i dont get the stupid error about calibration data being lost, and TG can be enabled.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: cybernet on May 19, 2017, 12:34:15 am
@uboot its in the other thread - a tar.gz of the patched sources of a 2014 uboot, if i remember correctly, it was mostly some cleanup of the interrupt handlers that where needed which pointed into code that was then replaced with the uboot ldr + added lcd support. that part was actually pretty easy, you'd have to diff it against the original source i didnt bother to do that back then.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: kattyil on June 12, 2017, 06:49:29 pm
Gday everyone. Interestingly this seems to be a nightmare to everyone on boot 1.04 and newer. As said, my 815 had and still has boot 1.03. All options were still in trial mode. Since the rigol service line has assured me that 1.18 Firmware can perfectly run on my older board and boot loader, I went directly from my original fimware to 1.18. After that, as expected, all of my trials had disappeared. After that I generated the keys with the generator and was able to activate them with no issues (had to enter them twice as I did not use all caps). Finding a way to revert to boot 1.03 might help but also sounds risky. I probably would not go there. Good luck! Raj
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: lost_bro on June 20, 2017, 10:13:54 pm
Good day All:

OK, figure I'd post my latest finding regarding the *never_ending_trial_time_mod* with a FRAM Write Protect Switch.
I have a *new* DSA815-TG which was purchased the end of last year, 2016.   So I am using 1.18 Firmware and version 1.04 Boot.
I was beginning to get desperate because my *Trial Time* was about to run out........
At the suggestion from CombatWombat71, I went ahead and opened the DSA and ran two thin jumper wires, one from Pin7 and the other from Pin8 on the ICU1105 to a small slide switch mounted on the RF-shield. I have access to the switch from outside of the unit with a toothpick, in case I need to run updates, etc.

I did NOT *lift-up* Pin7 when I connected the *jumper wires*, it remained soldered to the pcb.

Switching on the switch effectively shorts together Pin7 and Pin8.  I now have 13hrs 9mins xxseconds remaining forever.......  Each time I reboot the SAME 13hrs 9mins xxseconds is restored. So I will definitively state that the *never_ending_trial_time_mod* does indeed still work with the *new* 1.18 Firmware and ver. 1.04 Boot.

Of course I also still have functioning the 10Hz RBW that came activated from the factory with the 1.18 Firmware.

I hope this post helps answer some of the sought after questions regarding the *new* DSA815-TG w/ 1.18 Firmware.

take care,
peace

lost_bro
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: N8AUM on June 20, 2017, 11:39:07 pm
Hello Ted, can you tell us what exactly you did to improve the RL of the bridge in post 871 ?
tnx  N8AUM
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on June 21, 2017, 02:39:42 am
Hello Ted, can you tell us what exactly you did to improve the RL of the bridge in post 871 ?
tnx  N8AUM
Post #871 is at -> https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg1112327/#msg1112327 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg1112327/#msg1112327)
Hello N8AUM:
I sent you a PM.  I provided information as to what I would like from you, for me to be able to provide the information you are asking about.  This was easy for me to do, although it can be difficult to explain the fine points to others without a marked up photo(s), etc.  It requires basic soldering skills, and for some of the work a lot of concentrated heat for soldering the added ground connections to two of the N connectors (body), as they are secured to the unit's aluminum case (effectively a big heat sink).
Please keep in mind that these units have been quite good as received (35 dB RL typical), so you may be happy without making any modifications.  Ted
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Spike101 on June 27, 2017, 09:11:00 am
I recently got a used DSA815-TG and would like to update the firmware on it. I have some questions, maybe someone here can help me out.
The unit seems to be quite old and has the following versions:

Main Board: 00.04
RF Board: 00.05
Digital Board: 00.04
Firmware: 00.01.08
Boot: 00.01.02

Now i downloaded the V00.01.18 update from the Rigol site, but in the installation instructions in the archive say:
Quote
Applicable models and component versions:
    ------ Embedded software version number: 00.01.09 and later
    ------ BOOT version number: 00.01.04 and later
    ------ Digital FPGA version number: 00.05 and later
    ------ RF FPGA version number: 00.05 and later
    ------ Main board version number: 00.05 and later


********************************************************************************
     Please be sure to carefully check the product system information
     and component version. Incompatible upgrade will cause serious problems,
     such as a failure in starting the instrument.

********************************************************************************

Does that mean, that i can't update my unit with this update? Are there other updates available for older units? The problem with the current firmware is, that the remote-commands seem to be not fully implemented, so the automation software i would like to use does not work.

Another question - The device has options enabled (keygen) - Will these options be lost, should the update be possible?

thanks,
Sebastian
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Daruosha on June 27, 2017, 09:45:50 am
I recently got a used DSA815-TG and would like to update the firmware on it. I have some questions, maybe someone here can help me out.
The unit seems to be quite old and has the following versions:

Main Board: 00.04
RF Board: 00.05
Digital Board: 00.04
Firmware: 00.01.08
Boot: 00.01.02

Now i downloaded the V00.01.18 update from the Rigol site, but in the installation instructions in the archive say:
Quote
Applicable models and component versions:
    ------ Embedded software version number: 00.01.09 and later
    ------ BOOT version number: 00.01.04 and later
    ------ Digital FPGA version number: 00.05 and later
    ------ RF FPGA version number: 00.05 and later
    ------ Main board version number: 00.05 and later


********************************************************************************
     Please be sure to carefully check the product system information
     and component version. Incompatible upgrade will cause serious problems,
     such as a failure in starting the instrument.

********************************************************************************

Does that mean, that i can't update my unit with this update? Are there other updates available for older units? The problem with the current firmware is, that the remote-commands seem to be not fully implemented, so the automation software i would like to use does not work.

Another question - The device has options enabled (keygen) - Will these options be lost, should the update be possible?

thanks,
Sebastian

You can safely upgrade to the latest version which is 1.18.
And if you enabled the options with the keygen, all enabled options will be kept after update. So go ahead and update.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: N8AUM on July 03, 2017, 03:44:11 am
I was looking at that but way out of my price range. I just purchased the SIGLENT  SSA 3032X, already found a bug LOL
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: tautech on July 03, 2017, 07:52:04 am
I was looking at that but way out of my price range. I just purchased the SIGLENT  SSA 3032X, already found a bug LOL
Please report it here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/)

We need to know the FW in your unit and exactly how to reproduce your bug.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Vtech on July 21, 2017, 02:21:16 pm
I've just successfully flashed firmware 00.01.18.00.02 on my DSA815-TG.
My unit is rather old and had firmware 1.09:

Main Board: 00.04
RF Board: 00.05
Digital Board: 00.04
Firmware: 00.01.09
Boot: 00.01.02

Everything works fine and all options except SSC-DSA are still intact.

I've also tested new print screen format. PNG works terribly slow - it hangs the DSA for something like 10 to 20 seconds.

But JPEG option is the best - it is flipped up side down and has white border around the screen. JPEG image resolution is 840x600pix. This is hilarious!
Really RIGOL, flipped image? Can you do something right the first try? You implement new feature and nobody even tried it once to check if it's working correctly?
Guess I should be happy that my unit didn't explode in a huge fireball when it came straight from the factory.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: mesteruvd on August 13, 2017, 11:35:05 am
Has anyone done a full procedure how to enable 'Advanced Measurement Kit'
+ .... on a Rigol DSA815 TG with
Version of Main Board: 01.08
Version of the Radio Frequency Board FPGA: 00.05
Version of Digital Board FPGA: 00.05
Version of Firmware: 00.01.18
Version of Boot: 00.01.04 ?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Nilton C on August 18, 2017, 03:32:26 pm

Hi, I need FW 0.16 to try to solve the problem of activating test license
I am using FW 0.18 it installs the test key s but not active
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: sv1eia on September 23, 2017, 01:30:13 pm
Hi,
Got a strange problem with the DSA815 and would like to see if anyone else is observing it.
Bought it recently about 6 months ago.

When using the DSA815-TG to get a spectrum output from a HF transmitter, seen a strange spurious signal in the area of 14.3 MHz.

Specifically, when a signal is fed to the instrument, in the area around 14.3 MHz eg 14.25 MHz or 14.35 MHz, appart from the original signal there is also displayed another signal (mixing product?), for that see attached images 501/2/3/5/6/7. When feeding the instrument with a signal at exactly 14.3 MHz, then the observed phase noise gets beyond the instrument's advertized limits, for that see the attached image 504.png

To verify the problem, I replaced the HF transmitter with a lab signal generator, the DG1022Z.
Seen the exact problem again.
The screenshots attached are from that setup, DG1022Z transmitting into DSA815-TG and the problem is still there so it was not the HF transmitter.

Has anyone else seen this or is it just my unit?.

Version of Main Board:00.09
Version of Radio Frequency Board FPGA:00.05
Version of Digital Board FPGA:00.05
Version of Firmware:00.01.18
Version of Boot:00.01.04


And btw, how can I submit a ticket to Rigol?


Thanks,
Christos
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Orange on September 23, 2017, 01:57:08 pm
Hi,
Got a strange problem with the DSA815 and would like to see if anyone else is observing it.
Bought it recently about 6 months ago.

When using the DSA815-TG to get a spectrum output from a HF transmitter, seen a strange spurious signal in the area of 14.3 MHz.

Specifically, when a signal is fed to the instrument, in the area around 14.3 MHz eg 14.25 MHz or 14.35 MHz, appart from the original signal there is also displayed another signal (mixing product?), for that see attached images 501/2/3/5/6/7. When feeding the instrument with a signal at exactly 14.3 MHz, then the observed phase noise gets beyond the instrument's advertized limits, for that see the attached image 504.png

To verify the problem, I replaced the HF transmitter with a lab signal generator, the DG1022Z.
Seen the exact problem again.
The screenshots attached are from that setup, DG1022Z transmitting into DSA815-TG and the problem is still there so it was not the HF transmitter.

Has anyone else seen this or is it just my unit?.

Version of Main Board:00.09
Version of Radio Frequency Board FPGA:00.05
Version of Digital Board FPGA:00.05
Version of Firmware:00.01.18
Version of Boot:00.01.04


And btw, how can I submit a ticket to Rigol?


Thanks,
Christos
Don't worry, mine is doing exactly the same  :palm:....
It is about 3 years old and the MB version is 00.04
Probably an issue with all DSA815 systems.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: sv1eia on September 23, 2017, 02:20:41 pm
Don't worry, mine is doing exactly the same  :palm:....
It is about 3 years old and the MB version is 00.04
Probably an issue with all DSA815 systems.

Thanks!..
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: IRB on September 28, 2017, 09:58:24 pm
I am having two different issues with the Rigol. (I miss my Advantest R3131A, the TG dies after 10 minutes. )

I have not seen anything about Normalization, or low end non-linearity.

For the normalization it seems to be disabled in linear mode, I have toggled LIN/LOG "Scale Type" (under AMPT) and the Normalize option becomes grayed out.
See bmp screen dumps from Rigol
I just tried the reverse I, put the unit to LOG mode, then Normalized the cable. I switched back to AMPT now the Scale Type is grayed out.

Is this in everybody's firmware?

And when I am sweeping the low HF end I get a noisy response, just from a good looped back cable. See scren.jpg

I contacted Rigol Costumer service by e-mail  help@rigoltech.com .
I went through and was told(by Steve Huss), I could only go to 1.08 Firmware
With:
   BOOT version number:             00.01.03
   Digital FPGA version number:   00.04
   RF FPGA version number:         00.05
   Main board version number:     00.04
Now I get:
    Version of Main Board :                            00.04
    Version of Radio Frequency Board FPGA :  00.05
    Version of Digital Board FPGA :                 00.04
    Version of Firmware :                          00.01.08
    Version of Boot :                                 00.01.03


P.S. I just got a follow up email, "I’ll be talking to a coworker tomorrow for more information. "
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: IRB on September 29, 2017, 10:57:27 pm
Here is a little VB6 I was working on. Based off of the Rigol sample.
I had to put the files in to a .zip, it didn't want to make a split file.

The RIGOL_815 contains the exe but it probably won't run with out the vesa32.dll from National Instruments. It's in the installer. 

It's a work in process, I am trying to figure out how to pull the save file over the USB port.
In the Rigol programmer's guild there is enough codes to pull all the information over to re-draw the screen data but that seems redundant..

Forgot to mention Clicking Command button will look for the Rigol, and put the Address in the Box if it finds the unit.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: IRB on October 02, 2017, 01:28:43 pm
Small addition to the program, add text box to show the out going command.
and moved the License box up. 

Made _2 longer delay on USB write to File
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: IRB on October 05, 2017, 08:38:24 pm
Next Step, added a Trace grab.

It takes three clicks to get it, Get Settings, Get Trace, Draw 
Technically, four if you count the Connect.

I think the save is calling it a jpg, but it might be a bmp file. I opened it in paint, and saved it without modifying it the file size dropped form 4meg to 216K 

The _3 seems undersized. So I remade it as_4
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Daruosha on October 05, 2017, 09:41:50 pm
Nice work IRB, I'm glad someone started to develop a 3rd party app for Rigol DSAs.

I have a few comments as well:Add the graticules to the captured trace would be nice. Also having more detailed analysis tools like spectrogram, projection of amplitude/power/frequency vs. time and waterfall graphs, in the app would make it a priceless tool as well.


BTW: Are you going to share the source code on GitHub or you want to keep it as a free licensed close source code?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: IRB on October 05, 2017, 10:34:27 pm
Daruosha, hadn't put much thought in to sharing it. My code is ugly, my comments are loose to non-existent.

I don't have a GIThub account. I think there free?

Yes, I intend to do graticales. I am trying to work out save files, I am writing the program for where I work, for production records.

I, don't have a need for a spectrogram, the USB might be too slow. Another programmer where I work did one in dotnet, this is old VB6 stuff, single threading.   

I haven't looked a Rigol's UltraSigma, I was told it's a free software package, and can do a screen save. I have not even seen screenshot of it, that would be nice to know what it can do.

Not much to see: https://rigol.desk.com/customer/en/portal/articles/2272607-ultrasigma-user-s-guide

Thanks for the feedback   

 
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: IRB on October 06, 2017, 11:42:29 am
Yes, a am aware that the unit can save to a thumb drive, I even put a button to do that on the first form.
Thanks for the discouragement in the pursuit of knowledge and the sharing with others.  :palm:

I followed the link you provided, I am not good at German, and Google failed to translate. Maybe I'll try again later.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on October 06, 2017, 11:35:06 pm
Hello IRB  Edit: Re. your post #918 on September 29, 2017, 3rd paragraph

In my DSA815-TG with the TG On, 'Normalize' functions (properly) with the X (Horz.) Display set for either Log. or Lin., and also with the Y (Vert.) Display set for either Log. or Lin.  I don't know why one would choose to use the TG with the X display in the Log. mode, but yes it does work.  The only times I have used the Log. X Display mode is for FCC EMI/EMC Compliance Testing and Reports.
   
I have firmware version 00.01.18.00.02 installed, and if you still have 00.01.08.00 firmware, you should upgrade to 00.01.18.00.02 for several reasons (bug fixes and added features).  Rigol should NOT have told you to stay at 00.01.08.00!  You won't have to read back very far in this thread to see that this firmware has worked fine for others with the same hardware that you have in your unit.   Cheers, Ted
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: N8AUM on October 12, 2017, 09:46:41 am
Yes, a am aware that the unit can save to a thumb drive, I even put a button to do that on the first form.
Thanks for the discouragement in the pursuit of knowledge and the sharing with others.  :palm:

I followed the link you provided, I am not good at German, and Google failed to translate. Maybe I'll try again later.
I say LET IT RIP,we need more people like you that don't mind sharing their knowledge !
tnx for all your efforts.
Vidas  N8AUM
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Pinkus on January 19, 2018, 08:49:46 am
There is now a new RSA5000 Series of High Performance Real Time Spectrum Analyzers shown on the Rigol Web Site.
oh man, they should hire some real designers. This thing looks so strange with these deformated buttons and housing. This is a professional measurement device sitting in lab and not a new hot gadget from CES. Next year they will sell RGB illuminated fans as an option.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: GRA on February 26, 2018, 12:18:27 am
If my trial version is over, and I do not have more hours. Will the modding work??
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: cyberfuzzy on March 23, 2018, 01:59:06 pm
Hi Folks. Thank you for the information on this thread, this is great!

DSA815, DSA832, DSA875 Adding FRAM Write Protect
This mod. is to permanently retain the factory supplied DSA800 Series Trial Options (fully functional) forever.  Suggestion - do it at least several hours before they expire.
Note: When they are gone, they will be gone forever, with currently no other way to get them.

I have a question to that: What happens if only one hour of trial time is left, FRAM Write Protect is enabled and I turn on the DSA815 for more than 1 hour. Will it be gone then? Or will it still be there after rebooting the system?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: N8AUM on March 23, 2018, 06:08:28 pm
cyberfuzzy, It will time out and you will have to hit the "Preset" to restart the hour. Before you power off to do the "mod" setup the analyzer where you want it to be when it powers up since those will be the settings it will use when you power up or hit the preset.

Good luck  N8AUM 
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Zucca on June 30, 2018, 10:18:17 am
FYI

I have the following DSA

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/?action=dlattach;attach=465902;image)

went from FW 00.01.18.00.02 to FW 00.01.19.00.02, everything went well but as always the SSC-DSA remain deactivated.
If anybody knows how to activate the pesky SSC-DSA please drop a line here.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: shodan@micron on August 19, 2018, 06:57:43 pm
Corrosion in ABSOLUTELY NEW rigol DSA815-TG. :wtf:
 :palm:

I knew that rigol is garbage, but I did not think rigol is sh%t. Now i know that... is sh%t!
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Zucca on August 19, 2018, 07:58:41 pm
Sometime I forgot to tear down my new kids, your post reminds me to do that always.
Warranty label still intact I hope?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: shodan@micron on August 19, 2018, 09:47:13 pm
Unfortunately no...
I try remove it, but do this little inaccurate... and broke :palm: |O
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: bd139 on August 19, 2018, 10:03:15 pm
Missed a new DSA815 with TG go on ebay the other day for a stupidly low price of £415 BIN.

Kind of glad now I've seen that corrosion. That's just shit.

TBH their kit scares me. I'm shifting my DS1054Z at the moment in favour of an older Tek TDS and need a suitable replacement for a DG1022Z as well. I'm up cash, repairability and being able to sleep at night then.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: TurboTom on August 19, 2018, 10:57:09 pm
What's the problem with a little surface corrosion at a punched-out edge as long as the instrument is performing as per the specs? This corrosion on these zinc-plated enclosure components will start if the parts are stored (unassembled) for two days under humid climate. It happened to other manufacturers as well. If you keep your instrument in a dry lab, this corrosion won't get any worse and it won't affect performance. I would take a DSA815TG for 415UKP (or 500 EUR) any day if I had not already got one (with or without rust...  ;) )
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: bd139 on August 19, 2018, 11:01:11 pm
I remember the first line of cheap PC clones that my father imported into Europe from Taiwan in the mid 1980s. The corrosion is semi infectious from what I saw. You’d find a couple of years down the line that other components had started corroding. Cheap tinned steel parts in particular.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: TurboTom on August 20, 2018, 05:32:59 am
That's true for tin-plated steel. But the zinc plating provides electrochemical protection (which I'm not sure of in case of the tin - I rather guess it wouldn't), so the risk of propagation of the corrosion is rather low. As a preventive measure, one could spray/wipe a thin layer of grease on the affected areas to displace any potentially present moisture. WD40 won't work permanently since it tends to evaporate completely over the time. In Germany we've got a weapon oil spray called "Ballistol" which does a really great job at protecting bare steel surfaces from corrosion - I guess similar agents are available elsewhere as well.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: shodan@micron on August 20, 2018, 10:31:28 am
TurboTom - I no talk about cleaning from corrosion.
It's about the extremely low quality of the Rigol devices, at a fairly high price. With that quality price must be 3-4 times lower.

I have electronic load from Rigol - is too buggy.
Now spectrum analayser - with corrosion.
 :--
2 of 2 Rigol devices in my lab - is too low quality.... 100% defected...  :horse:
Next time i grab more money and buy R&S... not a Rigol...

PS.I try full disassemble my SA, and clean that. I will try do it carefully, without open a UHF box. I hope calibration not degraded.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: TurboTom on August 20, 2018, 11:10:26 am
But that's what a forum is good for - providing a detailed opinion on these instruments. The Rigol load in its current condition is not worth buying. I don't know when you purchased yours but the corresponding tests are online since ten months. The opinion on that product was fairly unison negative. Recommendations go in the direction of Maynuo, Itech or BK, or if you prefer a TFT screen maybe also Applent. These entry-level loads work faily well and are worth their money.

The DSA815 is a rather old design, though modernized at some time but definitely not the best bang-for-buck from a 2018 year's point of view. In this forum, you will probably be advised to look at the Siglent (can also be rusty...) SSA3021. These recommendations will be backed by many individuals who gained some common experience and make it available here for those looking for the best purchase in the instrument category/class they are about to get.

Moreover, decent T&M equipment distributors will offer a money-back period of a month or so, so in case one is really unhappy with the purchase, no worry, just send it back. If this is common in your country (Russia?) I don't know, but then a forum like this should be even more valuable.

Anyway, I understand your point of feeling offended by Rigol and that you won't buy any of their products in future. For comparison, there are other products of this manufacturer that apparently are decent quality though it also took them a while to get them right. I read few complaints from DS1000Z and DS2000A owners and the DP800 PSUs are also usable.

I hope you'll find a solution for the problem and that you'll finally be able to get the instruments that you're satisfied with.

Cheers,
Thomas
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: shodan@micron on August 20, 2018, 11:26:40 am
Yes i understand, maybe my choice of measurement equipment not a "best" for 2018y.
Anyway, i hope my opinion and disassembly helps EEVBLOG users choice good equipment.

Our Rigol dealers don't take back opened SA device.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Zucca on August 20, 2018, 11:34:25 am
Depends,

I use the Rigol DSA815 TG twice a year. I needed a cheap ass SA not made 100% of chinesium.
For my needs the DSA815 is fine, you get what you paid.

If you are a serious RF ninja... run Forrest run.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: shodan@micron on August 20, 2018, 11:45:13 am
I also need SA very rarely because that i buy simplest SA from Rigol.
But if I suspected of such problems, I would buy a good brand such as R&S.

IMHO: When prices over 1k$ i wait some quality form equipment's, and long time to work without magic smoke.

Oh... i stop talking now... going to disassemble and clean it! It's more useful....
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: shodan@micron on August 20, 2018, 05:00:51 pm
I clean up.  :D
Rust and debris has clean.

And of course install a FRAM write key (NC button)  >:D
I hope SA be work properly a long time.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Wolfgang on August 23, 2018, 12:38:23 pm
Hi,  I use two DSA815TGs and I like them for everyday, uncritical work.
This one solves most standard chores, and it is hard to get more bang for the buck.
I can recommend those because the bugs seem to be gone and they are reliable.

Dave Jones has done a review on them, you certainly have seen this.



Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: n5kzw on September 15, 2018, 08:59:06 pm
I'm sorry for hijacking your post, but could someone tell me how to post a new thread in this section of the forum?  I cannot get into the maintenance mode on my new DSA815-TG.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on September 15, 2018, 11:11:35 pm
I cannot get into the maintenance mode on my new DSA815-TG.

Welcome 'n5kzw' to the EEVblog.  The DSA800 Series Maintenance Mode access is described in the following PDF file:  Credit's go to EEVbloger PeDre.
I also added information for 1.) accessing the units Full Firmware Version info, and 2.) adjusting the DSA800 Frequency Standard's 10 MHz.
Caution! Do NOT experiment in Maintenance Mode with any selections you DO NOT completely understand.  You can easily screw up your unit without even realizing it just happened.

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: n5kzw on September 16, 2018, 10:24:29 pm
When I follow all of the key sequences listed on the web and in the Rigol service note, after hitting the STORAGE button I do not get the "Welcome to Maintenance Mode" message, and pressing the SYSTEM button does not offer a Service > Calibration option on the second or third page of the menu; it just shows the normal STORAGE menu.  The unit shipped with FW version 00.01.19, and I have made the demo timer reset mod.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on September 17, 2018, 12:07:22 am
When I follow all of the key sequences listed on the web and in the Rigol service note, after hitting the STORAGE button I do not get the "Welcome to Maintenance Mode" message, and pressing the SYSTEM button does not offer a Service >
You want to select the Maintenance Mode.  Please just use the selection sequence for selecting the Maintenance mode using the 'DSA800 Maintenance Mode .pdf' (with a graphic display of the Keys).  You have 9 button presses before you will see 'Welcome to Maintenance Mode'.

By the way the STORAGE button isn't required to exit the Maintenance Mode and returning to Normal Mode.  Simply starting with the second button (Enter) always works, as the first button (Storage) isn't normally even required to use, although it still works fine as shown here either way.

What is this about on the Web and a Service Note?  Please use the PDF files I provided.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: n5kzw on September 17, 2018, 04:10:58 am
Thank you very much for the updated information.  I was relying on info from:  a youtube video by KD0RC on calibrating against WWV, a document titled "Rigol DSA815-TG Hidden Modes" dated 2014-09-12, and a Rigol document titled "10MHz Clock Frequency Adjustment: DSA-815" dated 01.30.2013.

The above references are not applicable to current production; your data is.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: PeDre on October 28, 2018, 01:47:25 pm
There are undocumented SCPI commands with temperature. With the DSA815 there is no output, but maybe they work for you.

:PRIVate:TEMPeratue:GET? -> 0.000000E+00
:PRIVate:TEMPeratue:COMPensate:STATe ON/OFF
:PRIVate:TEMPeratue:COMPensate:STATe? -> 0/1

Peter
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on November 02, 2018, 03:12:24 pm
I revised the 'DSA800 Maintenance Mode .pdf' (for the DSA705 - DSA875) to include the critical Buttons that should Not be Pressed, or Experimented With.  These are the only dangerous Buttons at this Time that that I know of that must be left alone.  There of course could be additional risky Buttons in the future that come up, as newer DSA800 Firmware is released.  Although this seems unlikely due to the maturity of this product line.  Please understand that anything you do in the Maintenance, Service Mode is at your own risk!

If you only use the Maintenance Mode for - 1. Calibrating the DSA800's 10 MHz Freq. Std., and 2. Obtaining the Full System Information, you should be fine.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on November 06, 2018, 02:34:39 am
DSA800 (DSA705 - DSA875) 10MHz Frequency Standard Calibration Procedure

If you have Fram Write Protect (FWP) enabled to secure Options, you must temporarily disable it before being able to do the 'Ref DAC' Adjustment (for 10 MHz Calibration).  Don't forget to re-enable FWP when done.  And please remember to follow the FWP cautions (!) concerning when/how to enable/disable FWP.  Note that I provided this information/cation in the postings on incorporating FWP, so this is not new information.

Edit Nov. 15, 2018:  Title changed to Bold Type, and added a Note about 'Fram Write Protect', if it is incorporated in your unit (added by request from EEVblog users).
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: xrunner on November 06, 2018, 02:39:40 am
Thanks for posting that.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: xrunner on November 07, 2018, 12:52:40 am
Hey I got a question I can't seem to work out. I have two traces going - a Max hold trace (1) and a Min hold trace (2). I want to accurately measure the frequency difference between the two different traces with markers at several places. I have markers assigned to the two traces but I don't see any way to get the frequency difference between a marker on trace 1 and another marker on trace 2.

Does anyone know how to measure the frequency difference between two different points on two traces other than by eyeballing them?  :(
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: tautech on November 07, 2018, 12:56:17 am
Marker table ?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: xrunner on November 07, 2018, 01:00:56 am
Marker table ?

Thank you for responding. No it doesn't seem that can do it, I tried.  :-//

Just seems like it would be possible - conceptually it's not a complicated thing but doesn't seem to be implemented. Do the Siglent SAs enable that?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: tautech on November 07, 2018, 01:10:38 am
Marker table ?

Thank you for responding. No it doesn't seem that can do it, I tried.  :-//

Just seems like it would be possible - conceptually it's not a complicated thing but doesn't seem to be implemented. Do the Siglent SAs enable that?
Not exactly what you wanted however the info is in the Marker table and all you need is to do some simple maths.
SVA1015X
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/?action=dlattach;attach=565366)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: xrunner on November 07, 2018, 01:18:43 am
Not exactly what you wanted however the info is in the Marker table and all you need is to do some simple maths.

Yes that can be done of course by hand, I was looking for the instrument to do it but it looks like it just isn't something the designers implemented, not sure why.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: tautech on November 07, 2018, 01:25:11 am
Not exactly what you wanted however the info is in the Marker table and all you need is to do some simple maths.

Yes that can be done of course by hand, I was looking for the instrument to do it but it looks like it just isn't something the designers implemented, not sure why.
Something like a Delta marker but relative to a marker on another trace ?

Edit
You can use a Delta marker and move it to the marker on another trace and it will show the frequency difference.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: xrunner on November 07, 2018, 01:47:50 am
Something like a Delta marker but relative to a marker on another trace ?

Yep exactly. Easy enough and simple math but not implemented. What I'm doing is measuring FM deviation using trace 1 Max hold and trace 2 Min hold, as W2AEW does it. But he has a Tektronix SA.  :-\
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on November 10, 2018, 05:55:34 pm
Re. FM Frequency Deviation Measurement:  General information for those interested.
W2AEW states that his procedure below in item 1.) is for determining a Quick Estimation of FM Deviation.  And as I tried to make clear in the procedure I provided for 'DSA800 Frequency Standard Calibration' (Reply #954 above), is that the DSA800 Marker does not provide an accurate method for determining a precise RF frequency. And to do that, you need to use a qualified RF Frequency Counter.  Of course a Frequency Counter would not be applicable for FM Deviation measurement covered here.
1.) W2AEW - #159: How to measure FM frequency deviation with a spectrum analyzer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nw3_w1HrlEs

For a accurate measurement of FM Frequency Deviation you would want to use a Bessel Null Measurement as follows below in items 2.) and 3.).
2.) W2AEW - #101: How to measure FM Frequency Deviation without special equipment using Carrier-Bessel Null.  This video uses a CW receiver, although it is easier to use a Spectrum Analyzer instead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IBOYoIV5m8

3.) TRX Bench - #166 FM modulation and deviation on the spectrum analyzer explained.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HSuytEYHyM
         This is also a nice introduction to AM, FM, and Bessel Null Frequency Deviation Measurement.

4.) Frequency Deviation Measurement with an RTL-SDR Dongle (as a Spectrum Analyzer):  Perhaps this may be of interest if you don't have a Spectrum Analyzer.
https://www.qsl.net/kp4md/freqdev.htm
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on November 18, 2018, 03:01:26 am
DSA815 RF Front-End Architecture and RF/IF Components

Edit Nov. 19, 2018: I  provided a revised version of the 'DSA815 RF Front-End Architecture and RF/IF Components' .pdf document below as a replacement for the original.  Re. Item U113; U120 P/N is TBD, and is mounted on the bottom side of the PCB due to space restraints on the top.  The reference designation was changed from U113 to U120 due to its new physical location (under the U120 marking).  U113/U114 are not used, and U120 drives the Digital IF input.
If you are seeing this after previously downloading version dated 17 or 18, 2018, please Re. Download this again.  The latest PDF document is version D, dated Nov. 19, 2018.
Credits go to TurboTom for finding a issue with the U113, U114, U120 information on the newer versions of the DA815 units.  Thank you Tom

 
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: TurboTom on November 18, 2018, 10:54:22 am
Hi Ted -

the newer DSA815 units indeed don't use U114 but actually it isn't bypassed. On the opposite side of the PCB, there's another footprint labeled U120 that is connected to the pads of U114 by some vias. This component is assembled and has got a different pinout than U114. So apparently, it's just two assembly / component options. Unfortunately, I've only got a rather blurry over-all photo of the PCB "solder side" (or whatever one may call it) that doesn't permit identifying the RF amplifier used. BTW, my DSA is a H/W revision 2.04.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: TurboTom on November 19, 2018, 11:50:07 pm
Ted -

to me the U120 device rather looks like an RF transistor (similar to a BFP780 (https://www.mouser.de/datasheet/2/196/Infineon-BFP780-DS-v03_00-EN-793259.pdf)) since there's a bias voltage divider at the input (150/75 Ohms), usually not to be found around MMICs. Moreover, the pinout is rather uncommon for a typical SOT-343 gain block. And then, there's three 10 Ohms resistors in parallel to ground connected to the terminals where one would expect the emitter of an NPN RF transistor in the aforementioned package. Hence, my bet is that it's an NPN transistor. Also, the BFP780 or one of this series would make sense since it's the last IF stage and the signal levels could be considerable. It's got to drive the input(s) of the ADC through a set of filters and an un-bal transformer so I'ld expect the maximum signal levels at U120's output to be closer to 10dBm than to -10dBm. I've probably got to rip the box apart again to get the numbers on the package... Anyway I eventually wanted to include the "PIC hack". Been a little lazy lately  ;) ... intended to have the thing hacked "properly" a long time ago.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on January 15, 2019, 06:47:07 pm
'Noise Figure Calculator'   The NF Calculators provided are Excel Workbook files, and as such require MS Excel (or compatible) on your PC.  The version labeled 'Full' provides additional information that is not in the 'Std' version.  Although this information is not required for Noise Figure calculations, and may not be of interest to most users.  I also provided information on an economical Calibrated RF Noise Source.
Note that Spectrum Analyzer (SA) Noise measurements for accurately determining Noise Figure (NF) require the use of a RMS Detector and ~ 100 sweep averages.   Most modern  SAs have this capability, including of course the DSA800 Series.
Please open the NF Calc Excel in the 'Read Only' mode if/or when prompted.  You can save copies of your NF measurement calculations and they will be saved with the prefix 'Copy of . . '.   I set the files as Read Only to prevent users from accidentally coping over the original file, and thus loosing the original default values.  This way, if you copy a result that had invalid entries resulting in math errors, etc, this could be confusing the next time you open the the NF Calc file.  The defaults can be helpful during initial use (on the learning curve) to appreciate the general values to expect.  If you want to save your own defaults, then simply save your file, and replace the original with it (without the prefix 'Copy of').

Edit: Open the NF Calc Excel in the 'Read Only' mode If, Or when prompted.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Wolfgang on January 15, 2019, 06:53:03 pm
... you can even automate the whole process, like here:

https://electronicprojectsforfun.wordpress.com/making-noise/a-noise-figure-measurement-solution-for-the-poor/

The DSA815 with a cheap external preamp is absolutely OK for this job.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on January 16, 2019, 12:23:59 am
DSA815/DSA815-TG Spectrum Analyzer Modification for Lower Noise Floor
This Modification applies ONLY to the DSA815 with Main Board 00.04 - 00.05 (Boot V. 00.01.02 and 00.01.03). It is NOT APPLICABLE to Main Boards 00.07 - 0.09 (Boot v. 00.01.04).  Note that the the following change does not affected the unit's calibration.
Purpose: To reduce the Noise Floor (DANL) and improve the sensitivity to be similar to that of the Newer DSA815 with Main Boards 00.07 - 0.09 (Boot v. 00.01.04). After reading the following attached information: If you are not comfortable making these modifications, understanding that you may want, or have to revert back to the original circuitry, or do not have the required skills, then by all means do not continue further.

Those that have already have made this modification are pleased with their results. Although as with your car, your mileage may be different.

Edit: I have received replies from users that have made this change, saying that they are happy having the lower default 0-1.5 GHz Noise Flore similar to the newer DSA815s.  And BTW they agree that these SMT resistors are easy to change if you have any basic SMT soldering skills.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Wolfgang on January 16, 2019, 12:31:25 am
Why would you do that ? An external preamp (you could measure the gain with your DSA815TG) with a low cost standard MMIC does this for a few bucks without risky disassembling your 815 and fiddling on a board full of small SMD stuff.

https://electronicprojectsforfun.wordpress.com/making-noise/using-homebrew-preamps-in-commercial-noise-figure-measurement-applications/

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: RFDUK on January 16, 2019, 08:23:02 am
Folks experimenting with noise figure measurements may be interested in visiting www.g8fek.com (http://www.g8fek.com) for precision calibrated noise sources to 3.4 Ghz.

Thousands of low cost sources shipped over 8 years, many of these in commercial applications.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on January 18, 2019, 06:31:11 pm
Remote Control for all of the 'DSA700/DSA800 Series' Spectrum Analyzers. Its nice for basic control (Center Freq., Start/Stop Freq., etc), and especially for monitoring the DSA on a PC, and really awesome with a large external LCD Display attached to the PC.

I suggest trying Peter Dreisiebner's (EEVblog'er 'PeDre') 'Rigol DSA800 Remote Control LAN/USB' that is available at: https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://peter.dreisiebner.at/rigol-dsa815/index.htm (https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://peter.dreisiebner.at/rigol-dsa815/index.htm) (English language), or http://peter.dreisiebner.at/rigol-dsa815/index.htm (http://peter.dreisiebner.at/rigol-dsa815/index.htm) (German language).

This is a Portable program, meaning that you simply run it (from any directory, the desktop, USB drive, etc) and it works directly without requiring any installation, or its making changes to the Windows Registry. The only preparation you need to do on the PC is to add a Win USB driver 'Zadig v2' available at http://zadig.akeo.ie/. (http://zadig.akeo.ie/.) This USB driver is required for any of Peters Dreisiebner's programs. It isn't required for LAN, although I prefer USB, seems faster/easier to me, and the driver is easy to install.

I use the program with Windows 10 and it is great. I want to point out that this program has not been fully completed, and it may never be (?), so there are functions that are not available, such as Marker, Measurement, Tracking Generator, SSC, and possibly a few others. But don't be too concerned, because you can temporarily set 'Remote' - Off, 'Select Trace' - Stop. Then press 'Esc' on the DSA, and make the any desired SA selection changes manually (via Front Panel). Then set the 'DSA800 Remote Control' to 'Remote' - On, and 'Select Trace' - Run.  This sounds more complicated than it actually is, and once you have tried it I think you will agree.

Note that this program also provides some very nice options. i.e. 1.) Spectrogram/Waterfall Display under its normal SA display. 2.) Cross-hair (cursor) display for the SA Remote screen's display cursor. And as standard, a nice presentation of the current configuration, etc.

You may find a couple of bugs in the program, although if so you will learn how to either avoid, or recover from them quickly. I think you will agree that this program is awesome for monitoring the SA on your PC, or better yet with a large screen LCD monitor attached to the PC.

Edit:  I can't say enough about how nice this program is, and easy to use.   The only thing that requires installation is the small USB Zadig driver, if it isn't currently on your PC.

Other later reference to this program: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg2516874/#msg2516874 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg2516874/#msg2516874)
Sample of PeDre's 'DSA800 Remote Control' Screen Shots: http://peter.dreisiebner.at/rigol-dsa815/screenshots.htm (http://peter.dreisiebner.at/rigol-dsa815/screenshots.htm)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: IRB on March 09, 2019, 04:21:51 am
Nice work IRB, I'm glad someone started to develop a 3rd party app for Rigol DSAs.

I have a few comments as well:Add the graticules to the captured trace would be nice. Also having more detailed analysis tools like spectrogram, projection of amplitude/power/frequency vs. time and waterfall graphs, in the app would make it a priceless tool as well.


BTW: Are you going to share the source code on GitHub or you want to keep it as a free licensed close source code?


Could give this piece of code a try on your DSA815? It kind of works on my RSA5065 but the colors come back purple instead of blue...

For USB. it's as I called it it gets a screen shot over the USB, saves as a bmp, I used paint to make it a png, smaller file size
Oops, can not attache exe files...


Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on March 10, 2019, 02:15:20 am
For your information the DSA815 Upside-Down USB DSA800.JPG Screenshots were corrected in Firmware version 00.01.19.00.02.  This isn't necessarily common knowledge because Rigol didn't mention this in their Firmware Release Notes for this version.
Edit: Added - Typical Screenshot Storage Time and File Size (applies to DSA815 - DSA875).
BMP: ~17 Sec., ~1,128 KB; JPG: ~5  Sec., ~118 KB; PNG: ~20 Sec, ~52 KB.

They also corrected a bug in the SSC (Single Signal Capture) 'SigCapture' mode in this Firmware.  Note that the 'RT Trace', 'MaxHold', and '2FSK' are mutually exclusive in this mode.  And when you use the SSC (Signal Capture) option, both 'RT Trace' and 'MaxHold' use Peak Hold for capturing fast intermittent (transient) RF signals.  This is part of the SSC's FFT mode used to capture short transient RF signals that otherwise may not be observed with the DSA815.  This is primarily due to the DSA815 having a minimum (fastest) sweep time of 10 Ms.  Where as the DSA832 and DSA875 have minimum sweep time of 1 Ms, and thus they are able to capture much shorter RF incidents than the DSA815 without SSC.  We can appreciate the SSC mode more by reading about Rigol’s ASK / FSK Test System for Keyless Entry with the DSA800 Series, etc.  SSC is great for capturing events in ASK, FSK, and any other RF transmissions where there are intermittent transient events, such as spurious emissions (often found on initial TX key (TX on) and/or un-key (TX off).  The SSC option capability has bee included in the last few Firmware releases, although Rigol didn't included a free Trial for it.  If interested in it, we have to purchase a SSC-DSA Option License.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: IRB on March 15, 2019, 12:43:21 pm

WOW, I just realized I attached the wrong ZIP File. The ScreenGrab.zip has the exe file. :palm:
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: xrunner on March 15, 2019, 06:52:13 pm
For your information the DSA815 Upside-Down USB DSA800.JPG Screenshots were corrected in Firmware version 00.01.19.00.02.  This isn't necessarily common knowledge because Rigol didn't mention this in their Firmware Release Notes for this version.

Thanks - I just installed the firmware and now no upside-down screen prints!  :clap:
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: TurboTom on March 18, 2019, 07:13:42 am
U120 confirmed: Just had my DSA apart again and at that opportunity took a look at U120's (the final IF gain stage on machines with PCB rev. 02.04) marking: It's "ANs", indicating that it's Infineon's BFP450 (https://www.infineon.com/dgdl/Infineon-BFP450-DS-v02_00-EN.pdf?fileId=5546d462689a790c01690f034c5f3916) transistor, the same type that's used in the 1st LO (frequency range split over three individual oscillators, all of them using the identical type transistor). Though maybe not too relevant, I thought to add that information here for completeness since there had been some uncertainties about this issue recently.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Wall-E on March 24, 2019, 05:47:05 pm
Help. I got 3 old out of date trials on dsa832. Do any one know how I can purge em?  Stein
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: PeDre on March 24, 2019, 06:00:17 pm
Help. I got 3 old out of date trials on dsa832. Do any one know how I can purge em?  Stein

In the last firmware 00.01.19.00.02 for the DSA815, there is a new SCPI command with help text.


"Delete all Trial version option license key"

:SYSTem:LKEY:TDELete


The corresponding button is also available in the Maintenance Mode.

Peter
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Wall-E on March 24, 2019, 06:18:30 pm
Help. I got 3 old out of date trials on dsa832. Do any one know how I can purge em?  Stein
In the last firmware 00.01.19.00.02 for the DSA815, there is a new SCPI command with help text.
"Delete all Trial version option license key"
:SYSTem:LKEY:TDELete
The corresponding button is also available in the Maintenance Mode.
Peter
Thanks Peter, but :SYSTem:LKEY:TDELete just hangs up, and no button. I has dsa832 with .01.05.00 firmware. to bad ,thanks for help ,Stein

Use license key with it no work.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on March 24, 2019, 07:14:59 pm
I can't get the SCPI command (:SYSTem:LKEY:TDELete) to work on my DSA875 either.

Edit: The command ':SYSTem:LKEY:TDELete' just hangs and times out.  I don't think that the command is valid for the DSA832, or 875.  As all the standard commands respond very quickly.

   Done. . .   Ted
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: smgvbest on March 24, 2019, 08:26:03 pm
I can't get the SCPI command (:SYSTem:LKEY:TDELete) to work on my DSA875 either.
Just to be sure how should I append the License code in case I'm missing something, although I don't think so.
    Ted

Edit: The command ':SYSTem:LKEY:TDELete' just hangs and times out.  I don't think that the command is valid for the DSA832, or 875.  All over standard commands respond very quickly.

   Done. . .   Ted

Are you doing a SEND or SEND/RECEIVE.   Try just sending the Command and see if the screen says Accepted or similar on the DSA
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: IRB on March 29, 2019, 09:36:00 pm
Thanks to who posted about changing the bmp file prefix. Seems to be gone now.
Changing the BM6 to BM65 makes the colors match the analyzer.

The bmp file from the Rigol comes with a 11 character prefix before the BM6, that needs to be stripped off or the file will not open in a viewer.

I added code to save as a png file.


Rev C below works on both RSA5065 and DSA815


Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: IRB on March 29, 2019, 10:12:14 pm
Added Read and Write buttons



Rev C below works on both RSA5065 and DSA815
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on April 03, 2019, 06:35:37 pm
Hello IRB:
It seems that your Screenshot program is intended for the Rigol RSA3/5000 Series, as I can't get it to work for the DSA815.  And from your screenshots I see that you are using a RSA5065TG there.  I suggest considering moving this to a RSA3/5000 Thread, as it may me more meaningful for those users, if it isn't intended for the DSA800 Series.  Nice work, and I'm sure that RSA user's will very much appreciate your new application for their SA.   Apparently a little fine tuning may be required for the display screenshot's Graticule.  Thank you for providing third party software for our equipment, as it is always nice to have alternatives from expert users such as you.

 
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: IRB on April 03, 2019, 07:54:13 pm
ted572  :-+

Thank you for pointing out there is a bug in my code.
You are correct, I had modified the code to work on the RSA5065, I failed to re-test the code on the RSA815.
I have tried the code on both. See pictures.

The file from the DSA is smaller but it has a little hang for the last few bits, the RSA file is a little lager but both are working as far as I can see.

Please let me know if there are other issues.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on April 03, 2019, 08:04:38 pm
Hello IRB:
The RSA5000 Screenshot looks good,  although the Graticule in the DSA800 still needs a touch up.  Great, I'm happy that you essentially have it working for both SAs.     Thank you

Edit:  What is going on?  Now all I see is the RSA5000, anyway apprarently you are still working on it.

Minutes later: Now the DSA800 Screenshot is back with the Gaticule issue. ? ? ?   It's in good hands (I hope).  I'm sure will will get working!
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: IRB on April 03, 2019, 08:13:44 pm
The Graticule skips are in the PRINT Screen image capture.
In the save file it is fine.

Thanks again for testing the progress.

Same zip file as above post.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Daruosha on April 20, 2019, 09:06:35 pm
HI.

Does anyone know how to reset the trial period of UltraSpectrum?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: gandalfg8 on April 21, 2019, 03:26:50 pm
I've been away from this topc for some time but didn't realise for just how long until I caught up on all the interestimg firmware changes, my 815TG is still at 1.13:-)

I already had 1.14 and 1.15, and have now downloaded 1.18 and 1.19, but can't find 1.16 and 1.17.

If someone could supply copies of those it would be much appreciated.

Nigel, GM8PZR



Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: gandalfg8 on April 21, 2019, 03:52:46 pm
Hi Peter,

Many thanks for the firmware, that's great, now to play:-)

Nigel GM8PZR
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Daruosha on April 21, 2019, 06:08:27 pm
The signed capture mode on version 1.19 behaves strangely, it always on MaxHold mode , even in real-time mode. Does it work correctly on 1.18? If so, can I downgrade from 1.19 to 1.18?
Anyone has similar problem?
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: msquared on April 21, 2019, 06:23:09 pm
Help. I got 3 old out of date trials on dsa832. Do any one know how I can purge em?  Stein

In the last firmware 00.01.19.00.02 for the DSA815, there is a new SCPI command with help text.


"Delete all Trial version option license key"

:SYSTem:LKEY:TDELete


The corresponding button is also available in the Maintenance Mode.

Peter

Careful with this command. It will wipe out all of the trial keys at once.  :scared:

Even when given a parameter for a specific key.

Anyone know how to recover or reapply trial keys?  :-//
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: msquared on April 21, 2019, 11:45:34 pm
I've tried through telnet and the menu, both give me "invalid key".

I even tried rolling back the date, that didn't work.

Current firmware is 1.19, the keys were issued for 1.18 so it's the new format. (no dashes).

Maybe I should try to roll back to 1.18 and try again??
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: PeDre on April 22, 2019, 05:57:54 am
The signed capture mode on version 1.19 behaves strangely, it always on MaxHold mode , even in real-time mode. Does it work correctly on 1.18? If so, can I downgrade from 1.19 to 1.18?
Anyone has similar problem?

The Signed Capture Mode works correctly with version 01.18. I also think that version 01.19 works wrong. With version 01.19 the LAN connection works much better.

You can press the "Preset" button directly when turning on the device to install older firmware.

Peter
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Daruosha on April 22, 2019, 08:31:43 am
The signed capture mode on version 1.19 behaves strangely, it always on MaxHold mode , even in real-time mode. Does it work correctly on 1.18? If so, can I downgrade from 1.19 to 1.18?
Anyone has similar problem?

The Signed Capture Mode works correctly with version 01.18. I also think that version 01.19 works wrong. With version 01.19 the LAN connection works much better.

You can press the "Preset" button directly when turning on the device to install older firmware.

Peter

I'll give it a try then. thanks for the confirmation.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: tv84 on April 23, 2019, 01:47:25 pm
All,

Regarding the DSA815, Rigol updated  it's licensing scheme a few years ago and many of you have implemented other ways to get to the SSC license.

But, AMOF, many of you still have the scope working with the old "riglol" licensing format. Most don't know this!

So, for those who still don't have that license or that are not sure if their DSA migrated to the new licensing scheme,  you can try to generate the SSC license using the old online riglol and using option AAAH.

If it doesnt work, it wont do any harm... If it does, then  :popcorn:.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Jean-Michel on May 11, 2019, 11:36:37 am
Hello

Does anyone have the firmware of DSA 815 version 1.18?

Thank you

Jean-michel
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Kean on May 11, 2019, 12:19:29 pm
Does anyone have the firmware of DSA 815 version 1.18?

Should be available here: http://int.rigol.com/Support/SoftDownload/3 (http://int.rigol.com/Support/SoftDownload/3)

Make sure to read the release notes!  May not be compatible with some older hardware revisions.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: sv1eia on May 31, 2019, 06:30:53 am
Can someone PM me copies of firmware 016 and 017?  Many thanks in advance!!

Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Technix sys on June 22, 2019, 01:12:44 pm
The following is some recent history of DSA705 - DSA815 Firmware changes with additional information (in bold Italics) that wasn't provided:
1. Updated Firmware 00.01.18.00.02, 2016-09-26
   -----Resolved Ultra Spectrum problem
   -----Perfected the SSC-DSA function   Not quite, see 2. below
2. Updated Firmware 00.01.19.00.02, 2018-04-11
   -----Solve the problem of LAN remote command timeout after opening 3 traces
   -----Modify the trace type for video average and power average
Included a change to the SSC-DSA 'SigCapture' mode to ensure always retaining Peak Level Storage for catching and displaying short/quick events.
   -----Some other bug(s) solved
Included solving the issue with USB Flash Drive storage of 'JPEG Screen Shots' being upside-down.
3. Updated Firmware 00.01.19.00.03, 2019-03-25
   -----Resolve SSC-DSA spelling of SigCapture
   -----Some other bug(s) solved

Comments related to the two previous Post Replies above:
 Re. Kean: All of the DSA815 Firmware updates are compatible with all hardware versions between 2011 through 2019 +.
 Re. sv1eia: If you install a newer Firmware update in your DSA705 - DSA815 you will have all of the current updates up to that point, without having to install previous updates before that point.  Although there were two individual exceptions to this that occurred between Firmware .08 and .12 that were caused by unique and individual anomalies from other unusual glitches.
 If previous DSA Firmware Updates are still required, please send me a PM request with a valid email address that will accept attachments (as PM's won't).
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: kado on June 22, 2019, 04:17:26 pm
tv84:

Option AAAH works with my DSA815 SN: DSA8A1616.....
with FW 00.01.18 last updated in 2016-09-26 !

Thank you for this Information, never thought that this could work with my old device.

Karsten
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: aristarchus on June 23, 2019, 10:11:01 am
tv84:

Option AAAH works with my DSA815 SN: DSA8A1616.....
with FW 00.01.18 last updated in 2016-09-26 !

Thank you for this Information, never thought that this could work with my old device.

Karsten


Hi,

Got firmware 00.01.18.00.02, tried to put the AAAH generated lic but it got rejected.
Can you please tell how did you do that or am I missing something?

A

<===>
Edit: It looks that my hardware version is later generation so it did not work..
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: kado on June 26, 2019, 02:22:04 pm
Yes, have the older hardware here! It was one of the last HW / FW at that time the riglol deliberation was working.

Just forgot to deliberate the last function, tv84 mentioned and remember me to try that.

Karsten



Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on June 29, 2019, 03:31:57 pm
A totally free (MS PC and Mac.) 'Remote Control program' for the DSA705 - DSA875 Spectrum Analyzers.
A very nice basic control program is available from Peter Dreisiebner (EEVblog'er 'PeDre').  It is a portable program, meaning that you don't have to install it on your computer.  It can be run directly from a external USB Flash drive, etc.  The only requirement for installation is a 'Zadig' USB  driver.
The program is available at: https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://peter.dreisiebner.at/rigol-dsa815/index.htm (https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://peter.dreisiebner.at/rigol-dsa815/index.htm) (English language), or http://peter.dreisiebner.at/rigol-dsa815/index.htm (http://peter.dreisiebner.at/rigol-dsa815/index.htm) (German language).
You can see sample ' Screen Shots here:  http://peter.dreisiebner.at/rigol-dsa815/screenshots.htm (http://peter.dreisiebner.at/rigol-dsa815/screenshots.htm)
I mentioned this program before (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg2130790/#msg2130790 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/spectrum-analyzer-rigol-dsa815/msg2130790/#msg2130790)) in a previous post, and although it hasn't been fully completed, and may not be in this form, it is very useful, the price is right, and I feel it warrants additional exposure for new Rigol DSA users.  I'm not related or affiliated with Peter, it's just that I want to share my enthusiasm for his program.
Also see the following for more of Peter's contributions to our group:  https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fpeter.dreisiebner.at%2F&sandbox=1 (https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fpeter.dreisiebner.at%2F&sandbox=1)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on July 29, 2019, 04:26:53 pm
The 'Signal Seamless Capture' (SSC-DSA option) mode for the Rigol DSA705, DSA710, and DSA815/TG Spectrum Analyzers provide Real Time Spectrum Measurements over a 1.5 MHz Span.

Information about the DSA815 SSC-DSA / Signal Capture (SigCapture) Mode that may not be appreciated, or understood:  Note: Currently the preferred firmware for the DSA815's SSC-DSA mode is version 00.01.19.00.03, or later.

In the Signal Capture (SSC) mode the 'Trace Type - Max Hold' is always active, and as such is mutually exclusive (per Rigol) for each of the following:

1.) 'RT Trace' is Real Time using FFT mode - RT Trace 'ON'.
This mode is intended to capture and display short transient signals that otherwise would be missed.
2.) 'MaxHold' does NOT use the Real Time FFT mode - RT Trace 'OFF'.
This mode is NOT intended to necessarily capture, or display short transient signals with Real Time FFT 'OFF'. Although it may by chance eventually get most over a extra long sample period.
3.) '2FSK' uses Real Time using FFT mode.
This mode will is intended to capture and display short transient signals that otherwise would be missed.
Note: The basic difference between '2FSK' and 'RT Trace' modes is that '2FSK' mode is configured to automatically display 2FSK Frequency and Amplitude values for up to 6 different Frequency Peaks (up to 3 FSK signal pairs).

Press 'MaxHold Rst' to reset and restart a new 'Trace type - Max Hold' for either 1.) 'RT Trace', 2.) 'MaxHold', or 3.) '2FSK'  as/if required.

Note: If you don't want Trace Type - Max Hold always active then exit SigCapture mode and use one of the normal (non SSC) modes.

Edit: Deleted redundant reference to Max Hold and the mode descriptions.
        Added definition of SSC-DSA mode from the following Post below.
Edit: The preferred firmware for this changed from '00.01.19.00.02' to '00.01.19.00.03'.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on July 29, 2019, 11:14:00 pm
I should have included the following definition in the previous post of 'Information about the DSA815 SSC-DSA / Signal Capture (SigCapture) Mode':

The 'Signal Seamless Capture' (SSC-DSA option) mode for the Rigol DSA705, DSA710, and DSA815/TG Spectrum Analyzers provides Real Time Spectrum Measurements over 1.5 MHz.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Technix sys on July 29, 2019, 11:40:02 pm
Re. DSA815 SSC-DSA/Signal Capture (SigCapture) Mode -
DSA815 Firmware Update 00.01.19.00.03, 2019-03-25, corrected the SSC-DSA spelling of SigCapture (had been SigCpature).

Edit:  I added the referenced Firmware Update here.  Download the two files (Part 1 and 2) and then change the suffix (only) of each from '.pdf' to '.rar'.  Then run 'DSA815-TG Firmware 00.01.19.00.03 Update.part1.rar' to decompress the the two files into a folder named 'DSA815-TG Firmware 00.01.19.00.03 Update' with the Firmware update.  Note that this Firmware is also applicable to the DSA705, DSA710 as well as the DSA815.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: Technix sys on October 12, 2019, 05:17:23 pm
FYI.  I added DSA700 and DSA815 Firmware Update 00.01.19.00.03, 2019-03-25, files for downloading in my previous post here.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: gm0otb on November 17, 2019, 11:48:10 pm
Hi could someone please send (PM) me Firmware 00.01.16.00.03

Thanks in advance  ;D
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on November 18, 2019, 01:15:17 am
Hi could someone please send (PM) me Firmware 00.01.16.00.03

Thanks in advance  ;D

Hello gm0otb:  You don't need to work up to the latest firmware (FW).  Just install the latest FW (00.01.19.00.03) now and be done with it.

Edit:  By the way PM's don't have a capability for sending attachments.  For this you could provide a email address for yourself that does allow attachments.  Of course the sender could use a Drop Box, if he/she has one, and provide the requester a link to it.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: gm0otb on November 18, 2019, 03:32:26 pm
Cheers for the info :)
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ssaenek on November 20, 2019, 12:47:34 am
Hello,

I have an DSA815TG:
mainboard: 00.04
radioFPGA: 00.05
digitalboardFPGA: 00.04
firmware: 00.01.09
boot: 00.01.04

1) I still have time left for the trials
2) I would like to upgrade the SA firmware to get the 10Hz RBW but there is no other firmware available on the Rigol's website than 00.01.19.02 and after reading the Installation Instructions I realize that this latest firmware doesn't suit my FPGA and MOBO version (applicable model versions are 00.05 instead of my 00.04 for both MOBO and FPGA)

Could someone, please, message me copies of previous firmwares? (i hope they will be compatible with my mobo and digi boards)

I am not very skilled and I am not sure this is the best way to choose.
My idea is to upgrade first for the free 10Hz RBW and then if i wouldn't lose the TRIAL period go to perform the hardware MOD to keep this trial forever.

I will hightly apreciate any help,

Thank you very much in advance,

Toño,
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on November 20, 2019, 01:33:40 am
Hello,  I have an DSA815TG:, mainboard: 00.04, radioFPGA: 00.05, digitalboardFPGA: 00.04, firmware: 00.01.09, . . . .   I will hightly apreciate any help, Thank you very much in advance,  Toño,
Hello Tono:
1. Go here to get the Rigol Keygen:
http://gotroot.ca/rigol/riglol-103d/ (http://gotroot.ca/rigol/riglol-103d/)
2. Go here to get DSA800 firmware 00.01.07: You are going to Down Grade to this.
http://gotroot.ca/rigol/DSA800_FW_00.01.07.zip (http://gotroot.ca/rigol/DSA800_FW_00.01.07.zip)
3. Go here to see what to do:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dsa-815-tg-upgrade-hack/msg2789438/#msg2789438 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dsa-815-tg-upgrade-hack/msg2789438/#msg2789438)
Follow the Instructions I gave to VE7XDT for doing this:
  Down Grade your DSA800 Firmware (FW) to 00.01.07 as I instructed here.
  Do NOT install the Keygen Option License Code for !0 Hz RBW.
  Do NOT install the Keygen Option License Code for Tracking Generator.
  Install VSWR, EMI, and AMK Option License Codes.
3. After you have completed installation of the Options, verify that they are in your DSA800, and that your unit works Ok.
4. Install the latest FW available here: Don't Worry it Will Work Fine on your DSA800. Rigol's info that it won't is WRONG.  You will now have 10Hz RBW, VSWR, EMI, and AMK Official Options.
https://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/formfd/1579/0025:d-000f/ (https://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/formfd/1579/0025:d-000f/)
If you have a problem downloading this FW send me a email address via a EEVblog PM (Personal Message) you have that allows attachments.
Note - EEVblog PM's DO NOT support Attachments!
If you have questions please ask me.  Ted

Edit: When you upgrade your FW to the latest use Rigol's FW Installation Procedure
(it comes with the FW when you download it). Do Not use the one I supplied for doing the FW Downgrade back to 00.01.07.
By the way even if your Options had timed out, I believe that this procedure would re-install them as Official.

Edit 11/20/2019:
I'm very sorry, I didn't notice before that you had Boot Loader .04. (Generally  with the Hardware you have, Boot Loader .02 or .03 is incorporated). Sorry you won't be able to go back to FW .07, and your only choice is to solder Pins 7 and 8 of IC  U1105 together (this should work fine).  Although you could install a secure/hidden toggle switch, but be WARNED! - Never change the switch's from OFF-ON or ON-OFF when the DSA800 is ON (turn the DSA800 'OFF' first).   The Data in U1105 can potentially get corrupted and you loose all the calibration data.
Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ssaenek on November 20, 2019, 12:18:09 pm
Hello Ted,
First of all let me say Thank you very much for your help.

Unfortunately I haven't succeed, that is what i have done:

I've installed FW 00.01.07 on an empty USBDisk (file DSA_UpdateFile.sys)
Then inserted on my SA and turn it on but nothing happens. Pressing STORAGE I see my disk and the file on it on the SA
Then I've followed the steps on the Installation Instructions Troubleshooting: Inserting the USB and while the instrument is Starting Ive pressed continiously the PRESET button but to no avail. The USB is detected but no System upgrade starts.

My BOOT is 00.00.04
On your reply https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dsa-815-tg-upgrade-hack/msg2789438/#msg2789438 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dsa-815-tg-upgrade-hack/msg2789438/#msg2789438) you said:
"PS:  This only works on units with Boot Loader 01.02, or 01.0.  It will NOT work with Boot Loader .01.04."

So maybe this way is not valid for me or I am doing something wrong...

I hope you could guide me.

Thank you very much in advance,

Toño,


Title: Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
Post by: ted572 on November 20, 2019, 12:26:28 pm
Hello DSA800 Hackers:  I received a couple PMs asking me why I repeat 'Do Not install the Kegen's code for the '10 Hz RBW' and 'Tracking Generator' Options'. It is because some guys want to make sure that they have everything that the Riglol Keygen is capable of providing in the DSA800. Well these two Options are NOT Required, as the 'DSA800-TG' comes with a Tracking Generator (if you don't have a TG unit, you still won't, but it will falsely appear that you do) , and '10 Hz RBW' has been included in the firmware for the last several years. If you install them you will see repeat incidences of them when you view the DSA800s Installed Options, and that is a dead give away that someone played with the Rigol Option Installations, etc.  I like to the keep the DSA800 clean and simple without adding miscellaneous un-required (potential corruption) data in the units OS. Although no operational problems have be