Tablet Oscilloscope-tbook, a new kind DSO.

[Stonent]

I am now convinced that his intention is not promoting or at least introduce the product here, especially in this thread. Looking at the replies made, its morely the quest to find distributors or resellers.

So unless you going to show an interest to sell their product, he will not going to hand out any clues about it, not even a photo of the "mockup".

This thread should be moved to Buy/Sell/Wanted section.

How about the Snake Oil thread? 

[BravoV]

I am now convinced that his intention is not promoting or at least introduce the product here, especially in this thread. Looking at the replies made, its morely the quest to find distributors or resellers.

So unless you going to show an interest to sell their product, he will not going to hand out any clues about it, not even a photo of the "mockup".

This thread should be moved to Buy/Sell/Wanted section.

How about the Snake Oil thread? 

LOL ... actually I had thought of that for few seconds in my mind, its just I remembered Dave gave sort of "faint" nodding on this thread, its just a gesture of respect for Dave, otherwise I would proposed that.   

[kaz911]

even if they are looking for distributors - they are not looking very hard.

I emailed them about 5 months ago - since the UAE is the master place for everything cheap made in china. We can't even BUY the high end LCD/Plasma TV's here because the usual ***** (yes bosschh) nationalities manning the purchase departments in the electronics retail chains would never DREAM of taking in anything else than the absolute lowest priced items. Ask for a high end notebook... "8 weeks delivery - if at all possible" - and then of course no spare parts for the high end models - so repairs ... "2-6 months"

People in the UAE would (in general) rather buy 15 bad cheap things here than 1 good quality high end item - so I asked for distribution terms as I have a lot of contact in the technical schools - never heard back....

[nctnico]

Will we see you at this trade fair? http://www.amper.cz/en.html 

how about this fair?

honestly, we are looking for distributors, and we want to grow up with them together?

Just send one to Dave for a review and sell them directly through Ebay.

[Hydrawerk]

http://www.micsig.com/en/product_detail.asp?id=24
I am looking forward a product video. Will there ever be any?

[Stonent]

http://www.micsig.com/en/product_detail.asp?id=24
I am looking forward a product video. Will there ever be any?

At this point I'm thinking they have a reasonably authentic looking mock up that some have seen but don't have the bugs worked out.

It's like some of these knock-off HTC or Samsung phones I see being sold with links to Youtube videos.  In almost all circumstances I see that the person deliberately makes slow swiping gestures, probably to not point out that the device cannot react as quickly as the real thing.

[tinhead]

at least their handhelds are available http://www.ebay.com/itm/310815198583

[echen1024]

at least their handhelds are available http://www.ebay.com/itm/310815198583

It actually looks pretty good...

[Bored@Work]

After almost two month, has anyone seen a real, working version of the bricktablet?

[Hydrawerk]

Micsig, please, make a promotional Youtube channel like this made by Rigol. https://www.youtube.com/user/RigolTech/videos

[Mark_O]

Micsig, please, make a promotional Youtube channel like this made by Rigol. https://www.youtube.com/user/RigolTech/videos

That promotional YouTube video channel, along with the demo videos posted there, was not made by Rigol.  It was made by their US Distributor, RigolTech. 

While that may seem like a minor distinction to you, I can assure you it is not.

[wluwlu1234]

Hi Folks, wow ever since first appearance of the name Micsig there has been some action here on this forum. Now at least for Europe I have gotten a little closer and contact with Micsig has been improved. I even found a distributor offering the MS200 handheld series and got pricing for the rest of the series.
However I am holding a copy of their CE certification (mandatory if you want to sell anything in Europe) and lots of models I found +6 months ago actually vanished. To say they had too many model series on "offer" and this made it particularly hard to decide what to go for.
Now that is all slimmed down to (current status) the MS200 handhelds (no isolated inputs), the MS300 and MS500 (all isolated inputs) series. Plus the tBook. Interesting is even on the MS300 series that it can be ordered with a serial decoding option, a 50k wfms/s upgrade, XY display upgrade and Flash storage update.
Now considering (now nobody has seen it live!) the specs and if Micsig's statement on the performances being true & tested than I believe they have a very competitive product at hand. Of course they have a lot of work ahead. Usually not a problem buying something but if one is spending a lot of money on an instrument then the user usually wants after sales support should a unit go faulty (sending to China is not so much of an option if the user is not a company). That also goes for availability of accessories & spareparts (e.g. chargers & batterypacks to name...)
So I might decide to take the plunge and get for instance the MS310IT which I find IMHO quite a useable instrument. Mind you these are all handheld DSO's. Not really fair (even on the tBook) to expect the "do it all" thing.
Honestly I spot a little bit of similarity to another forum "dpreview.com" They just as here (my apologies does not adress everybody here generally) are a lot of gear heads offering their more or less qualified opinions and taking less pictures errghh...doing measurements....
Go around and check some other manufacturers of high end handheld scopes and you will find some features and specs are not so very nice and pricing still up the sky. And no fiction here; I used to be a T&M Sales Manager and also hands on Applications Engineer and from all the big players I nearly had them all passing though my hands. Plus in my daily work I use DSO's from different manufacturers. They all have their positive & negative points. It all depends a bit on your work profile. To find the machine doing it all for less at lab bench resolution (if handheld) is a dream not to come true.
So my advise is: Wait a little while and see what comes up and if these (at current) marketing specifications hold their ground.
And no I am not the "Mr. Wise Guy" who knows it all and had them all but beside considering electronics my hobby and also my profession I judge instruments a bit different and don't check on all "bells & stuff". For me an instrument has to be usable and easy to operate with reliable results. Even some of the big players had their lemons (remember the older A****t handheld series without the provisioning of any trigger delay?
If (IF) I am going to order the above mentioned I would be happy to submit a testreport from a user standpoint. Bit surely this is not going to happen within the next 2 months or so.
So to all (Moderator, Forum members and MICSIG) I do wish you a *merry christmas* and a happy new year !

[Yago]

Honestly I spot a little bit of similarity to another forum "dpreview.com" They just as here (my apologies does not adress everybody here generally) are a lot of gear heads offering their more or less qualified opinions and taking less pictures errghh...doing measurements....

Don't be silly now!
This place is nothing like DPReview.

[wluwlu1234]

@Yago. My apologies then. Sounded maybe harsher than intended. However no matter what level one has or how professional one might be I sensed a certain "similarity" but not saying that being equal to dpreview. In the end it remains. Loads of presumptions, wishes and statements on a product none of the members so far had the chance to play with.
The human factor of how one expresses his view/opinion has nothing to do with their professionalism. But I don't want to start a flame here on that kind of topic.
Fact is I have spotted that manufacturer way before it was even mentioned here (about 1 year ago). However their webpage had changed meanwhile though product availability still remains a burning issue for some and even myself.
They also ought to hire a native english speaker to get their webpage easier to read and navigate through. Also manuals to be put online. I registered with them and tried to DL one for the MS300 series and all I got was some shabby commercial marketing chineso/english pdf. That could have gone better.
I also would challenge them in the future for possible bug fixes (no new product having none). So right now I am hesitating to order (they made me pretty good pricing but will have to import myself). Because even getting it for a good price but turning out to be plagued with bugs is like throwing away money and testing my patience.
Nonetheless they do "appear" to be competitive. On a side note. Having read some complaining about the high prices e.g. for the MS500 or other series. These should try to buy a Fluke/Tek/Agilent/Chauvin-Arnoux-Metrix top handheld. These do not come cheap either for sure.
As said one to choose what's best for his job/profile. Right now to me they have not fully developed their reputation and yet it remains to be seen how that will go in the future.
Lets wait & see and I hope I'll have the guts to shell out the cash and order one when time's right. And certainly I'll try my best to test & feedback so other members potentially interested have a bit of aid making up their mind.
Merry christmas to you. Best, wluwlu1234

[Bored@Work]

@Yago. My apologies then. Sounded maybe harsher than intended. However no matter what level one has or how professional one might be I sensed a certain "similarity" but not saying that being equal to dpreview. In the end it remains. Loads of presumptions, wishes and statements on a product none of the members so far had the chance to play with.

No, but we can read. And we can have a look at the photos.

We can, for example, read the published size and weight specifications. And those are the specifications of a brick, not a tablet. We can watch the photos, and see a brick, not a tablet. A brick with no isolated BNC connectors, etc. And we have experience with such companies, their product quality and the value of their promises.

But lets do it the other way around. Who the fuck are you? You come out of the blue, dig up an old thread, write a barely readable wall of text and dare to tell us what we should and should not do. What is your interest in this? Why are you so eager to market their other handheld oscilloscopes to us? Who is paying you?

[echen1024]

@Yago. My apologies then. Sounded maybe harsher than intended. However no matter what level one has or how professional one might be I sensed a certain "similarity" but not saying that being equal to dpreview. In the end it remains. Loads of presumptions, wishes and statements on a product none of the members so far had the chance to play with.

No, but we can read. And we can have a look at the photos.

We can, for example, read the published size and weight specifications. And those are the specifications of a brick, not a tablet. We can watch the photos, and see a brick, not a tablet. A brick with no isolated BNC connectors, etc. And we have experience with such companies, their product quality and the value of their promises.

But lets do it the other way around. Who the fuck are you? You come out of the blue, dig up an old thread, write a barely readable wall of text and dare to tell us what we should and should not do. What is your interest in this? Why are you so eager to market their other handheld oscilloscopes to us? Who is paying you?

Piggybacking onto this, we have every reason to believe that you are a biased seller. Of in that case, please make it the fuck clear that you are one, like rf-loop in his Siglent SDS2304 thread, or gain our trust, like franky from iloveelectronics, before trying to push bullshit at us.

[Mark_O]

But lets do it the other way around. Who the fuck are you?

Is this really necessary?  Have we no courtesy or respect for our fellow Forum members, even if they're new here?

You come out of the blue, dig up an old thread,

That seems like an odd characterization, for an active thread, that was posted to less than a week ago.   

...write a barely readable wall of text

In the OP's defense, he's not the first to have started posting here, only to find that the blank lines had been stripped out somewhere along the way.  Other than that crunching, his post was no more a "wall of text" than any other here.  It was certainly broken into multiple paragraphs.

...and dare to tell us what we should and should not do.

Apparently, that's your job?   

What is your interest in this? Why are you so eager to market their other handheld oscilloscopes to us? Who is paying you?

You've drawn far more insidious intentions from his/her post than I was able to detect.  When someone tells me there are numerous problematic issues with an item, but suggests they might at some point be willing to give it a try anyway, I don't consider that to be "eager to market".

Did what the OP posted really justify your response?  I'd say "Merry Christmas", but I'd be worried I'd get a "Bah, humbug!" in return.   

[nctnico]

Same here. I don't understand all this negativity. Someone announces a new instrument which will be available somewhere in the future (or maybe not) but doesn't expect to get paid before delivering a working product. I can't see what is wrong with that. The tablet scope looks appealing to me and I think I'll wait a bit longer before deciding to buy a new scope.

[wluwlu1234]

@ mark_O   Thank you...
@ Bored@Work  Thank you too sir. Very revealing.
@ echen1023  as well thank you sir. Piggybacking on all statements.

1. I am not telling anyone what to do or what not to do.
2. I find personally new designs and approaching kind of refreshing. Whether they hold true to their advertisement is
    certainly another story.
3. Clearly I am not selling or promoting anything.
4. I only referred to the other MS2xx/3xx/5xx seriess as these are now more or less available (maybe not all parts of world)
5. Bored@Work : I don't know if you should refer to "us" when you express your opinion.
6. Your remark of an old threat made me smile and questions one's definition of time.
7. Sure maybe I made a few mistakes (like "wall of text"). This because I am no native english speaker.
8. My thoughts are purely interest driven and share my very personal opinion a bit enriched with some professional exp.
    Of course each to his own and might like it or not.

Now to the tBook design which I don't know more about than you do.

Would you expect an iPad Air design still accommodating up to 4 CH inputs? No can do. Does it appear like a brick? YES!
But in the end its a T&M device and if you look carefully around you will see a lot of tablet like designs in other industries.
Check on Telecom BER and Comms analyzers. You'll find a lot of handheld devices there also with touchscreens.

Let me see what I already owned personally to see whether my thoughts make sense.
- TEK THS 500 series
- Fluke/Philips 90 series (he 25Ms machines)
- Fluke 190 series
- Agilent alike u1600 series (they are similar designs to Voltcraft and other) and are made in Korea.
- Cheapo Siglent 800 series (Had many bugs but otherwise ok for the price)
- Metrix (Chauvin Arnoux) OX 7042 (That one was really good - Also touch screen - WinCE device) Loads of configuration
  possibilities. I really had bought that one cheap and sold it (It still had a passive matrix color LCD vs the TFT of the newer)

Yet I have not tried the Hantek handhelds (The newer "S" series having isolated inputs) From the photos I have seen so far
the plastic/ABS used does not seem to be highgrade but this is a preliminary thought as I never owned one.
Also I believe the Mike stuff guy ran quite a useful review on the Owon higher handheld DSO's on Youtube.

That of course in a nutshell more or less what I have had (over the years of course). I am more like a handheld person though
having at hand quite a stack of T&M devices (from optical meters/sources to Agilent Arb generators and Tek deskscopes) due to my job.

But whenever I go out (One of my functions is being a field service engineer) I usually carry 1 good multimeter (Fluke) one portable calibrator (Agilent/Chauvin Arnoux Multifunction Calibrator), a laser source and receiver (handheld) and sometimes a Rohde&Schwarz handheld spectrum analyzer. If duties demand also an Omnicron.

Am I trying to educate someone here? Not at all! Am I trying to share some of my views here? Yes!
Like my "personal" opinion? Yes? Great thank you. No? Well, I accept that of course but don't care being adressed like
"Who the fuck are you?? and alike..."
I call this mutual respect. I respect your opinions and views and even if I dislike one's opinion I necessarily don't have to use
words like that or attack someone.

So to finalize. I always have been and will be an avid fan of high performance handheld devices. They have come  long way and get more & more reachable even for the electronics hobbyist. That is a good development.
Besides the tBook should be out of financial reach for the most electronic hobbyist though unfortunately. But so is for instance
also the Metrix Scopix II/III series (If I remember correctly they are labelled AMC in the U.S.) and the newer Fluke 2xx series and Agilent and Tek high end handhelds.

Again : Merry xmas to all.
And no, I am not selling anything to anyone. Hope that is clear. ;-)

[wluwlu1234]

Ah I forgot to rephrase

- I am still considering maybe purchasing the MS3xx series and will if funds & time allow share my opinion.
- Unfortunately the tBook might be out of financial reach.
- I heard the tBook is in and-design stage and ought to be available around Jan/Feb 2014

And a little bit of info on pricing (strictly European market) (Just indicators/estimates incl. EU VAT)

MS310IT : 1600 EUR
MS320IT : 1700 EUR
MS510IT : 4000 EUR
MS520IT : 4400 EUR
MS510S :  4600 EUR
MS520S :  4900 EUR

So to imagine the tBook will certainly not be below these indicated prices. (Maybe the 70MHz/2CH) But yet to be seen.
Mind you the european market is quite different vs the U.S. market as the manufacturer will have to pass the so called
CE compliance testing for each single device offered (one sample of each product) which puts additional financial stress
on their operations. Otherwise no shipping to EU ever.
In the U.S. it is different but still I believe they might have to get FCC sort of approval.

So even I mentioned some price estimates of a dealership within Europe (and also as I learned not yet readily available)
I can assure you that you cannot purchase them from me at all. I am not selling nor promoting.

And also I share some of the concerns here especially the claimed Wfms/s figures. I wonder how they do that on a handheld
device without sacrificing battery life. Like the MS500 series claimed 190.000 Wfms/s. That's even higher than the Rigol's newer
series and not to mention the tBook here which is even higher.... Hmhmhm...There I am also ? a lot.
Also pretty hard to measure if no provisioning of a trigger output. 

[nctnico]

The testing costs are peanuts compared to total product development. But with those prices I doubt the tablet will sell a lot.

[Retep]

Mind you the european market is quite different vs the U.S. market as the manufacturer will have to pass the so called CE compliance testing for each single device offered (one sample of each product) which puts additional financial stress on their operations. Otherwise no shipping to EU ever.

You overestimate what the CE mark really means.

It is true that you may not sell a product within the EU without a CE mark. However for most products CE is just a self-certification; it is no more than a statement from the manufacturer that the product complies with relevant the EU regulations. The CE mark does not require the manufacturer to submit its product to an independent certification authority for compliance testing. How much "additional financial stress on their operations" CE causes is mostly up to the manufacturer. The CE mark really is a joke.

(BTW. the symbol for Chinese Export looks remarkably similar to the CE mark)

[nctnico]

Oh, the China Export symbol myth again Its just people using the wrong font...

[echen1024]

Ah I forgot to rephrase

- I am still considering maybe purchasing the MS3xx series and will if funds & time allow share my opinion.
- Unfortunately the tBook might be out of financial reach.
- I heard the tBook is in and-design stage and ought to be available around Jan/Feb 2014

And a little bit of info on pricing (strictly European market) (Just indicators/estimates incl. EU VAT)

MS310IT : 1600 EUR
MS320IT : 1700 EUR
MS510IT : 4000 EUR
MS520IT : 4400 EUR
MS510S :  4600 EUR
MS520S :  4900 EUR

So to imagine the tBook will certainly not be below these indicated prices. (Maybe the 70MHz/2CH) But yet to be seen.
Mind you the european market is quite different vs the U.S. market as the manufacturer will have to pass the so called
CE compliance testing for each single device offered (one sample of each product) which puts additional financial stress
on their operations. Otherwise no shipping to EU ever.
In the U.S. it is different but still I believe they might have to get FCC sort of approval.

So even I mentioned some price estimates of a dealership within Europe (and also as I learned not yet readily available)
I can assure you that you cannot purchase them from me at all. I am not selling nor promoting.

And also I share some of the concerns here especially the claimed Wfms/s figures. I wonder how they do that on a handheld
device without sacrificing battery life. Like the MS500 series claimed 190.000 Wfms/s. That's even higher than the Rigol's newer
series and not to mention the tBook here which is even higher.... Hmhmhm...There I am also ? a lot.
Also pretty hard to measure if no provisioning of a trigger output. 

I don't see you selling all that much to the hobbyist market at those prices

[wluwlu1234]

Hi, no matter what pricing. I am not selling anyway.
That was presumed by another member thinking I am a seller or professional promoter.

But it is correct at those prices (I can only speak for the estimated prices) these are not so much in the
hobbyist league. The MS2xx series are at the edge of it. One member mentioned an ebay link of a french
seller offering that series. Though still maybe too high a price for some.

But then imagine what the tBook is going to cost. I don't know but IMHO I am sure it will be way over
let's say $1500 or so for the smallest model.

Oh yes, the former member is right about the CE mark. In fact it is a kind of self certification but additional
work load is involved for any CE conformity. It also implies that (not necessarily) an examination of a
notified conformity assessment body took place.