Author Topic: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack  (Read 16876 times)

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Offline rfdes

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TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« on: July 15, 2017, 05:55:08 pm »
Gents -
I've seen this come up a number of times as to how to extend the BW of these scopes.  Here is some information that I will share, although I have only tested several models and it did work on the two non lettered versions that I have.

I particular, I was able to update a TDS3034 to TDS3054 (non-lettered) and a TDS1001 to TDS1012
I will leave it up to the group to try this out on the 'B' and 'C' models to see if it works.

In regards to the TDS3000 models, the non-lettered and B models only will accommodate fw ver 3.41.  V3.41 does not work.  I had to downgrade to 3.39, perform the change and upgrade back to 3.41.  This worked.  The TDS3000 C models have not be tried.

If any of this information has already been posted, I am unaware.  Please use at your own risk.
You will need to setup your TekVisa OpenChoice tools and run the Talk/Listener tool in order to force
SCPI commands to your unit, either through USB or GPIB.

Use *IDN? to check communications
For the TDS3000 series (downgraded to 3.39, then re-updated to  3.41)
Send the following:
        PASSWORD PITBULL
        MCONFIG TDS3054

You will not get any feedback from the unit.  Reboot the unit and check to see if it worked.  Again, with V3.39 it worked great.

For the TDS1000/2000
        PASSWORD PITBULL
        MODEL TDS20xx  (with xx = model #)

I have not tested with 'B' and 'C' models so report back what you find out.
Good luck.
 
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Online Fraser

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2017, 06:13:02 pm »
Thanks, I will give it a go.

Fraser
 

Offline tautech

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2017, 05:42:45 am »
Thanks rfdes  :-+

We looked at this a while back in this thread but never got far:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tektronix-tds1000b-series-hacks/


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Offline aquaman8

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2017, 02:31:18 pm »
Great information and thanks for all the hard work!

Any idea where I can find previous versions of the firmware for the TDS3000 series? I know that version 3.39 is referred to, but are  earlier versions available as well? If so, where?

Thanks,

Mitch
 

Offline Vtech

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2017, 02:41:53 pm »
Here it is:
http://www.hakanh.com/dl/docs/3.39.zip

It comes from interesting page about performance verification software of Tek scopes: http://www.hakanh.com/dl/TDS_pv.htm
 

Offline Vtech

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2017, 12:01:48 pm »
I can confirm that this hack works on TDS3034B and TDS3032.

"B" series has the same firmware as non lettered series. I've downgraded the firmware to 3.39, did the hack via RS232 and upgraded back to 3.41 (it's so hard to find 3.5" floppy disks and working FDD these days). Don't forget to do calibration after the whole procedure!
For TDS3032 I used "MCONFIG TDS3052" and for TDS3034B "MCONFIG TDS3054B". Upgrading the bandwidth to 500 MHz also upgrades sampling rate to 5 GSPS. This is really impressive and gives those old dogs new life.

This hack creates nice combo with application dongles hack (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/tektronix-tds3000-oscilloscope-modules-tds3uam/).
 

Offline Hydron

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2017, 10:10:37 pm »
Thanks for the great tips about upgrading the TDS3000B series!

I just tried it on a fw 3.27 TDS3014B and it now happily runs up to 500MHz. Didn't even need to use TekVISA, you can enter the commands via ethernet using the scope's own webpage (B series have built in ethernet).

I have just realised that there was a 600MHz version too - does anyone know if TDS3064B is an option as well? I can't try it myself until monday.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 10:27:35 pm by Hydron »
 

Offline rfdes

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2017, 04:21:34 pm »
I forgot to mention that this hack will also work for the TDS200 series units.
i.e. to upgrade a TDS 210 to TDS 220

        PASSWORD PITBULL
        MODEL TDS 220

I really don't know if people still use these scopes any longer.
 

Offline alm

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2017, 04:37:04 pm »
I am sure there will be some people still using TDS 200 scopes. If bandwidth and acquisition rate is sufficient, than it is still a decent analog scope replacement in my opinion. As long as you do not expect to be able to zoom in after acquisition, but neither will an analog scope ;).
 
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Offline dos

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2017, 03:21:13 am »
I really don't know if people still use these scopes any longer.

I'm taking EET night classes at my local community college (Broward College in Florida) and the TDS 200s are the only digital scopes they have. On the same benches are also Tek 2205s (that must be there for looks as you're told never to touch them) and some horrible old manual ranging BK Precision or LG DMMs, and ancient BK analog function generators. Some benches have very early HP logic analyzers with the green phosphor CRTs. All work is done on these:



Everything is beat up and out of cal, It's basically worse than a school lab you'd find in some third world countries (and so is the instruction, to be honest). Spending any money at all on something like a community college where poor people might get educated is basically anathema to the people in charge of the state of Florida.
 

Offline Vtech

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2017, 03:36:21 pm »
I am happily reporting that option TDS3064B is working!
TDS3014B upgraded to 600MHz 5GS/s from 100MHz 1.25GS/s version.
 

Offline darkstar49

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2017, 08:35:50 pm »

Hello together,

did anyone check whether the sampling rate effectively increased ??? It's somehow hard to believe that Tek used 5GS/s ADC's in the 301x and 303x models...

I once had an MSO3014, which I upgraded to 500Mhz (with a key), but also played around with some system commands... could change model name & Co, but definitely without affecting it's "real" performance...

I've got a 3014 to check... but if the 305x's hardware is different, what is the 'real' effect of this mod ??

Cheers
 
 

Offline texaspyro

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2017, 09:28:26 pm »

It's somehow hard to believe that Tek used 5GS/s ADC's in the 301x and 303x models...


It's even harder to believe that they would spend the gazillion dollars it would have taken to fab separate custom DAC chips for the 3014/3024/3034/3054.  I read somewhere that a guy compared the 3014 and 3054 DAC module part numbers and they were the same... and, of course, everything you read on the internet is true!
 
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Offline darkstar49

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2017, 09:36:54 pm »


Mmmmh...  sounds somehow promising...    I'll make myself after the 3.39 fw, as I suspect that it's no longer on Tek's site (but I might be wrong...??)
 

Offline chronos42

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2017, 06:24:01 am »
I have tried to upgrade a Tek TDS2014 to a TDS 2024 and used this commands, posted by rfdes

For the TDS1000/2000
        PASSWORD PITBULL
        MODEL TDS20xx  (with xx = model #)

But I had no luck, scope is still TDS 2014.
Connection via GPIB was established and I have tried different software to send the commands.
It seems that the scope could read it, but it does nothing. But when I made an intentional error like PetBULL instead of PITBULL it gaves back an error.

Firmware is 4.12.

Is it not working with this firmware or did I overlooked something?
Any hints?

Thanks
« Last Edit: August 18, 2017, 03:24:01 pm by chronos42 »
 

Offline Old Don

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2017, 11:55:22 am »
Years ago I purchased a small startup company's daisywheel printer that came with 4K or optional 16K buffers. I paid the extra couple $100's for the 16K version. It arrived as 4K. Called the company and got put through to engineering and when they heard the problem they told me to open the unit up and cut a trace and I'd have the 16K model.  :wtf:  :palm:

Also, some years ago it was So other than maybe hand sorting to weed out slow boards after board assembly I can see Tek just using software patches to offer various models with the same hardware. ossible to purchase CPU's and add/remove resistors/jumpers on the top to change the operating frequency of a slow one to a more expensive faster one since that was the only difference in some cases. Early production run CPU's might have had problems at faster speeds, but once they got production up and running they all worked at the faster speeds. Now the makers make sure speeds are set inside the packaging and can't be fooled with like in the earlier days.

So while I don't have first hand info, but other than maybe hand sorting to weed out slow boards after board assembly, I can see Tek just using software patches to offer various models with the same hardware. You can add options to the TDS models with software patches so why not speeds?
Retired - Formerly: Navy ET, University of Buffalo Electronic Tech, Field Engineer and former laptop repair business owner
 

Offline rfdes

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2017, 01:53:35 am »
I forgot to mention that for the TDS1000/2000 and TDS200 instruments, the BW update will not be saved unless a full calibration adjustment  is performed before the unit is shutdown.
 
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Offline chronos42

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2017, 05:25:35 am »
Hi rfdes,

so that means first enter the password, after that make a new adjustment with 200MHz upper bandwith. I will give it a try, many thanks you for the hint.
 
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Offline snoopy

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2017, 05:49:23 am »
Years ago I purchased a small startup company's daisywheel printer that came with 4K or optional 16K buffers. I paid the extra couple $100's for the 16K version. It arrived as 4K. Called the company and got put through to engineering and when they heard the problem they told me to open the unit up and cut a trace and I'd have the 16K model.  :wtf:  :palm:


That sounds like the story of the dude who used to fix steam engines by bashing them with a hammer.
"That will be 50 dollars thankyou very much ! "
"What ! but you only hit it with  a hammer ! "
"Yep 1 dollar to hit it and another 49 dollars for knowing where to hit it" :D LOL

cheers
 

Offline sorenkir

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2017, 05:33:14 pm »
I forgot to mention that this hack will also work for the TDS200 series units.
i.e. to upgrade a TDS 210 to TDS 220

        PASSWORD PITBULL
        MODEL TDS 220

I really don't know if people still use these scopes any longer.

Hi,

I have tried this. OK, the scope reports it is a TDS220:

*IDN? --> TEKTRONIX,TDS 220,0,CF:91.1CT FV:v1.19 TDS2CM:CMV:v1.04

but the physical bandwidth is not changed. The -3dB point is still around 80MHz.
There must be something else to do to increase bandwidth...

Michel.
 
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Offline carl_lab

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2017, 08:37:18 am »
Can somebody else who made the hack, check real bandwidth, please?
 

Offline Hydron

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2017, 03:34:18 pm »
I don't have a "leveled sine wave generator" that goes high enough to check properly, but I did a quick test with the output of a spectrum analyser tracking generator and the TDS3014B is definitely running somewhere close to what I'd expect from a TDS3054B. Have not tried the TDS3064B code yet, but someone else said that it works too.
 
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Offline texaspyro

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2017, 04:01:39 pm »
Does anybody know if a TDS30xx (non-B version) can be turned into a TDS3064?
 

Offline Vtech

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2017, 11:08:08 am »
I turned TDS3032 into TDS3052. I think this is the max for non B version. There was never TDS3064 version sold by Tek.

For both versions I can confirm that the sampling rate increases to 5 GS/s. I've checked number of points per division on 1ns timescale with dots mode on. I haven't tested bandwidth properly but I did some measurements with fast signals and response on a TDS3014B unit hacked to TDS3064B is definitely well beyond 100MHz.
 

Offline texaspyro

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2017, 11:46:02 am »
I hooked one of those cheap-ish 30 MHz .. 4.4 GHz touchscreen ADF4351 based sweepers to a TDS3034 -> TDS3054.  It outputs a square-ish wave (but it's built on a two layer circuit board, so who knows what the waveform really looks like).   

Anyway,  amplitude and square-ish-ness start to drop off around 300 MHz.   The amplitude is down 50% at 1 GHz.   Trigger and sampling go to crap at around 1.1 GHz.   I did not re-cal the scope after setting the upgrade.

Above 700 MHz there is some coupling into other channels.  At 1 GHZ I have 500 mV P-P on the chan 1 input  and disconnected chan 4 has a 10 mV P-P image of chan 1.

I need to break out a leveled sine wave generator to do a real test...
 


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