Author Topic: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack  (Read 17291 times)

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Offline Vtech

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2017, 01:49:47 pm »
I've just done some test on TDS3014B hacked to TDS3064B using RIGOL DSA815TG. Tracking gen in Rigol isn't perfectly flat but I've tried to calibrate it using DSA815 itself. I've used zero span option and compared output level at higher frequencies to output at 50MHz. I did separate comparison for each higher frequency switching between this frequency and 50MHz setting (If you let DSA815 run for a while the level drifts by as much as 1dB. It also changes when DSA is doing self calibration in the background from time to time but those drifts seem to be in SA part not in TG. TG is not flat but it is fairly stable in time). Tests were done on channel 1 of the scope with internal 50 \$\Omega\$ termination, after calibration. Level was measured using cursors on the screen in peak-peak value.

Results are:

Freq:        Scope level [mV p-p]       unadjusted dB level      Sig gen correction     corrected dB level
50 MHz     652                                   0                                   0                               0
100 MHz   622                                   -0.41                             -0.3                          -0.11
200 MHz   610                                   -0.58                             -0.2                          -0.38
300 MHz   550                                   -1.48                             0.1                           -1.58
400 MHz   516                                   -2.03                             0                              -2.03
500 MHz   462                                   -2.99                             -0.75                        -2.24
600 MHz   434                                   -3.54                             -0.8                          -2.74
700 MHz   386                                   -4.55                             -0.7                          -3.85

I'd guess that I'm no more than 1dB off on my measurements. 3dB point appears to be above 600MHz. Above 750MHz something strange began to happen with the trace. It looked like there was additional low frequency modulation (similar to aliasing but it couldn't be it). I'm not sure what was it.
 
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Offline Hydron

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2017, 05:51:38 pm »
Thanks for the tests with the DSA815TG. I also have access to one of these and was intending on doing a similar test (with both the Tek scope and others) - good to know the tracking generator doesn't vary too wildly!
 

Offline carl_lab

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2017, 01:17:20 pm »
I forgot to mention that this hack will also work for the TDS200 series units.
i.e. to upgrade a TDS 210 to TDS 220

        PASSWORD PITBULL
        MODEL TDS 220
I've tried this way:

sent: *IDN?
received: TEKTRONIX,TDS210,0,CF:91CT FV:v.2.03 TDS2CM:v1.04

sent: PASSWORD PITBULL
sent: MODEL TDS 220

Checked menu utility/system status: TDS210, firmware etc. <unchanged>
sent: *IDN?
received: TEKTRONIX,TDS210,0,CF:91CT FV:v.2.03 TDS2CM:v1.04 <unchanged>

-3dB bandwith before: 83MHz, after: unchanged.


What went wrong?  :-\
« Last Edit: August 30, 2017, 06:17:47 am by carl_lab »
 

Offline texaspyro

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2017, 01:39:58 pm »
Try with and withhout a space between the TDS and 220?   Also after sending the MODEL command, send *IDN to see if the change worked.   Also, one guy reported that you need to fully recalibrate the scope after doing the MODEL and before powering it down.
 
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Offline carl_lab

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #29 on: August 29, 2017, 02:11:01 pm »
Try with and withhout a space between the TDS and 220?
Tried with and without space this time.
Also tried MCONFIG TDS220 (with and without a space between the TDS and 220).

Also after sending the MODEL command, send *IDN? to see if the change worked.
Still unchanged...

Tried that on another TDS210 with firmware 1.06 instead of 2.03 without success.  :-\

Also tried hacking a TDS1002 with half success.
After doing that, *IDN? replied TDS1012 as wanted, but without a new calibration, it was reset to TDS1002 as reported before.

Is there a trick to avoid the needed calibration after hacking the scope? I don't have a scope calibrator at the moment, so I tried manual calibration using DC calibrator and leveled RF generator, but I mixed something up, and calibration failed.
Obviously after first failed calibration step, model is reset to TDS1002 automatically.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2017, 05:06:54 pm by carl_lab »
 

Offline carl_lab

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #30 on: September 18, 2017, 02:40:04 pm »
Scope calibrator is back in lab, so I tried that TDS210 with firmware 1.06 again, including adjustment.
Adjustment ran through without failure, but nothing changed.
Bandwidth ~80MHz, IDN was reset automatically to TSD210 after adjustment (before adjustment and after hacking it was TDS220).

Update:
I also tried a TDS1002 with firmware 2.06, including adjustment.
Adjustment ran through without failure, but nothing changed.
IDN was reset automatically to TSD1002 after adjustment (checked bandwidth: ~84MHz).

So this hack doesn't work for TDS 210 or TDS 1002 !  :-\

I forgot to mention that for the TDS1000/2000 and TDS200 instruments, the BW update will not be saved unless a full calibration adjustment  is performed before the unit is shutdown.
I used automatic Fluke Met/Cal adjustment procedure (I removed one *RST command in the beginning not to reset the scope), but that didn't make the hack operating anyway.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 01:00:53 pm by carl_lab »
 
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Offline Hydron

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #31 on: November 09, 2017, 03:49:38 pm »
Just checked a TDS3014B->TDS3054B upgraded unit with this: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/yet-another-fast-edge-pulse-generator/

I was unable to upgrade all the way to TDS3064B (may have a too-early firmware), but it looks like the 500MHz upgrade was very successful:
 

Offline skennedy

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #32 on: December 02, 2017, 04:01:07 am »
I purchased a TDS3014B that came with 3.41. I downgraded the firmware to 3.39 and I now have a TDS3064B with version 3.41.

The scope needs to be calibrated as it now has a big DC offset and triggering is pretty terrible also. I have some instruments that can provide the low ripple DC and a 80MHz AC signal. Running through the calibration test I can get almost to the end.

The pulse generator that is required is a little more difficult for me to find. How accurate does it need to be? We have a 3ns rise time pulse generator but it certainly doesn't go to -2.2V. What is everyone else using? Can I use an FPGA or similar to generate a high rise time? Or maybe a fast comparator?
 

Offline texaspyro

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #33 on: December 02, 2017, 05:11:43 am »
Just checked a TDS3014B->TDS3054B upgraded unit with this:

Upgrade of a 3034 (non-b) to 3054 also worked... 3.39 fw.  Verified with Bodner's pulser.

Why is it necessary to downgrade 3.41 to 3.39?  Did they remove the magic spell in the 3.41 firmware?  The person I got the scope from did the hack and I don't think it ever had 3.41 on it. It had all the previous firmware floppies with it, but no 3.41  Does 3.41 bring anything useful to the party?
 

Offline ChrisLX200

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #34 on: December 02, 2017, 05:29:11 am »
I had not noticed this thread before. I have a 3014B, recently upgraded to 3.41 fw, so I will try this hack ASAP. Got the older 3.39 fw from the link earlier in this thread so should be good to go, but will have to re-install TekVisa (I deleted it after it caused problems - continually reporting device disconnected).

So to be clear - after the upgrade hack a recallibration is required before use?
 

Offline Hydron

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #35 on: December 02, 2017, 09:09:38 am »
The one I tried this on didn't seem to need a cal afterwards. This was just from use and quick testing though, don't have the equipment required for the cal/verification.
 

Offline skennedy

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2017, 04:43:10 am »
I'm not sure if you need to but my scope certainly did. Perhaps the lack of calibration was pre-existing as I didn't do a lot of testing before I upgraded the bandwidth. I have been able to calibrate using a Keithley 2450 sourcemeter, a R&S sma100a rf siggen and a pulse generator from Berkeley Nucleonics that we have in the work lab. It obviously isn't NIST certified but a lot better than before. Needless to say the entire process took well over an hour.
 

Offline ChrisLX200

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #37 on: December 19, 2017, 10:38:48 pm »
Confirm that the hack worked for my TDS3014B, which is now functioning as a TDS3054B. Now about to replace the firmware with 3.41 again..

Edit: Updated firmware and ran the self-cal, seems to be OK. Image shows the scope is running at 5.00GS/s (signal a 25MHz square wave - the max freq from my Siglent SDG1025 - 1V p-p, zero offset.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2017, 12:04:48 am by ChrisLX200 »
 

Offline darkstar49

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2018, 06:58:07 am »

just pimped-up a TDS3014B, no issue.

Btw, no need for GPIB, the web-interface perfectly does the job for the B-series (or a TDS3EM equipped non-B)

 

Offline texaspyro

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2018, 07:01:13 am »
Btw, no need for GPIB, the web-interface perfectly does the job for the B-series (or a TDS3EM equipped non-B)

Or the serial port if you have a comm module with one of those.
 

Offline sobakava

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #40 on: February 24, 2018, 08:28:25 pm »
Has anybody tried to do this with TDS3xxxC series?
 

Offline mcguire

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #41 on: February 28, 2018, 08:16:17 pm »
FYI, I've verified that the procedure detailed at the beginning of this thread works on a TDS3012 (no letter suffix) with no issues.  I downgraded from v3.41 to v3.39, applied, the hack, and reinstalled v3.41.  I set the model to TDS3052.  I used the command functionality in the web interface from a browser while the oscilloscope was connected to my network.

Quick and dirty measurement with a Bodnar pulser (38ps rise time measured on an 11801A+SD26) showed a rise time of 2.3ns before the hack, and 1.0ns after.  No other measurements performed as of yet.

I did notice that there was a significant DC offset after the hack.  I'm pretty sure that wasn't there beforehand.  Running signal path compensation took care of it, now it's perfect.

                                   -Dave
 

Offline Dogsled

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #42 on: February 28, 2018, 10:41:12 pm »
Successfully updated  a 3032b to xx52B, procedure as previously described.

Now looking for some of those Blank module chips parts? so I can glue in an Eprom for the options. Anyone out there know where to get those?

Thanks to all, this has been extremely helpful, I will outline what I did (and what worked)  for the options upgrade once I have all the parts.
Jon
 

Offline mcguire

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #43 on: February 28, 2018, 11:08:36 pm »
In reference to my TDS3012 upgrade above, I've just counted the samples, it's sampling at 5GHz.

                      -Dave
 

Offline Andrey_irk

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #44 on: March 01, 2018, 05:11:34 am »
The only scope I have nearby is top-of-the-line TDS2024B. Pity. 
So, shall we expect prices on these scopes to rise?
 

Offline Hydron

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #45 on: March 01, 2018, 09:01:37 am »
Terrible memory depth counts against them unfortunately. Still, when you're just looking at an edge or two the memory isn't an issue and the free bandwidth is nice.
 

Offline xi

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #46 on: May 14, 2018, 11:46:48 pm »
    I am reporting success too, with my TDS 3014B converted to a TDS 3064B :-+
    I got this scope in an auction sale, and now I have a really fast sampling rate, thanks for the hack!

    The upgrade process is not difficult, but I got some troubles with upgrading the firmware, so I am posting some infos for helping others:

    You will need:
    - a network connection between the TDS 30xxB and a computer with a web browser.
    - 4 floppy disks 3"1/2 1.44MB (at least one).
    - the firmware v3.39 (see above posts).

    • Configure network
    Plug the ethernet cable
    On the scope: go to Utility -> I/O -> Ethernet Network Settings and enable DHCP/BOOTP
    After a few seconds, the oscilloscope will display its IP address, just enter it in your web browser.
    (Your network must run a DHCP server, otherwise you have to configure a static IP address)


  • Check firmware version
One way to check the firmware is to send the command "*IDN?" from the "data" tab of the TDS's web page:


  • Downgrade to v3.39
If your TDS is running version 3.41, the hack won't work, you have to downgrade to an older version. If your current firmware version is older than 3.41, it should work directly (see other posts), so you can jump to next step.
Be careful with the updates, some versions has some quirks, read Tektronix recommendations! (for example, version 1.0 must be upgraded really carefully because of a bug in this version. Switching from version prior to 2.20 to version above 2.21 will need a recalibration, ...)

So let's upgrade / downgrade the firmware using floppy disks. I don't know if there are other means to change the firmware? I didn't find any...
I had formatted and prepared some floppy disks on an old computer, but the TDS refused to boot on it, so I strongly advice to format the floppy directly on the TDS: use save/recall menu:


If something is wrong with the floppy, the TDS scope will display "Mass storage error":

So try another floppy! Many of my old floppies were bad (particularly the Sony ones) ; back in time of 5"1/4 floppy, I had noticed that BASF one were more reliable than others ; so I searched for some old 3"1/2 BASF floppy disks and, guess what, they all worked in the TDS ;)

Once formatted in the scope, you have to unzip and copy the firmware v3.39 to the floppy disks. The content of each directory (disk1 to disk4) must be copied on four separate floppy disks, without creating any directory.
Take care to label each floppy disk with the name "disk1" to "disk4", this is needed by the TDS.
Once formatted by the oscilloscope, I run these commands on my Linux server (the only one that stills has a floppy disk drive):
[/list]
Code: [Select]
mlabel a:disk1 && mount /media/floppy/ && cp -av /home/share/temp/firmware_v3.39/disk1/* /media/floppy/ && umount /media/floppy(don't forget to change all the "disk1" to "disk2" for the next floppy, etc...)

Last step is to stop the scope, insert the first floppy into the TDS and power it on. If you followed the above instructions, the scope will ask if you want to downgrade / upgrade the firmware: just follow the instructions :)

  • Bandwith hack
Connect again to the web interface and check that firmware version is lower than v3.41, using "*IDN?" command for example.

Now send the correct commands for hacking the bandwith: for my TDS 3014B it is:
PASSWORD PITBULL
MCONFIG TDS3064B


Power OFF then ON the TDS, and enjoy!

(you can now upgrade again to v3.41, the scope won't loose it's model number)
« Last Edit: May 14, 2018, 11:55:39 pm by xi »
 

Offline stevewind77

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #47 on: May 20, 2018, 02:34:35 pm »
Hi all,

I have a TDS3032C which I try to upgrade without success.
The problem is that the c version has usb instead of Floppy drive.
The firmware version 3.39 for the older B model is on 4 floppy disks in a form of .dat files but the C version is not able to boot-up from an usb floppy.
It can only accept .img files.
Is there any experience about this? Maybe convert the .dat files to an .img or format the stick as it would be a floppy?
Any ideas?

Thanks
« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 08:41:48 pm by stevewind77 »
 

Offline stevewind77

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #48 on: May 20, 2018, 09:00:51 pm »
I had a look inside just to check if I can add a regular floppy instead of the usb.
I found interesting things inside.
There is no usb connection from outside but inside I found one which is probably disabled from software.
I also found a dc in, no idea for what is it there.

 

Offline MarkL

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Re: TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
« Reply #49 on: May 21, 2018, 02:11:16 pm »
...
I also found a dc in, no idea for what is it there.
That's a DC Out jack, +14.2 VDC, <=400mA.  From the TDS3054 manual:

  DC power output. Provides ~15 V DC accessory power only when the oscilloscope is connected to the AC power line.

From the TDS3054B manual:

  DC power output. Provides ~15 V DC power to accessories or to the plug-in TDS3PRT thermal printer.

Not shown at all in the TDS3054C manual.
 


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