BM235 Firmware Rev. E?

[ericloewe]

I just bought a pair of BM235 meters and they seem to have a newer firmware version than the ones listed on Dave's manual, version E.

Anyone got any info on the changelog?

[Testing123]

I received an ordered from Amazon EEVBlog BM235 today. The firmware is listed as version "d".
I too would be interested in seeing a changelog.

[ericloewe]

Rev. d is known, see page 19:
http://www.eevblog.com/files/BM235-Manual-EEVblog.pdf

[Testing123]

Ah yes. Thanks for the heads up!

[sergioag]

First time looking at the manual... and found a few spelling mistakes ("mutlimeter", "That EEVblog Bloke") that make me think of a bad OCR...

[EEVblog]

Ah, in an old email on the problem fixed in Rev D, a response from Brymen on another potential bug:

I was talking this to firmware engineer and was advised that kind of operation (to press Hz button while powering on) will make BM235 enter to a special debug mode, not to normal measurement mode. That is the reason why it can not read voltage correctly.
 
Our engineer will modify firmware to make BM235 enter to this special debug mode only in case BM235 calibration Jumper J4 is in short circuit. BM235 will not enter to this debug mode when calibration Jumper J4 is in open circuit.
 
Unless doing purposely, very rare users will press button while powering meter on. Thus we hope you may accept it as a known bug and allow us to have BM235 be a running change for this problem.

So perhaps Rev E fixes that?

[ericloewe]

Just checked. Instead of entering that mode, it gets stuck booting until Hz is released, then it boots normally. So it would appear that Rev. E fixes that.

[imidis]

Spelling mistakes are pretty frequent. They largely go unnoticed because your brain will compensate and want to read it as you know it to be. It's very interesting but true. Even when you proof them it is hard to catch.

[MacMeter]

Multimeters like most modern electronic computer chip driven devices these days would seem to be great candidates for user "updateable firmware". Especially, new models were the bugs are being found out by the consumer, after the devices are being shipped. I just got my EEVBlog BM235, and it's the "D" firmware, I guess for LIFE. I don't see it as too big an expensive, as I own a bunch of ecig devices, some in the $25.00 range that all have upgradable firmware via a micro USB cable. I dont know if there are meters that have this capability on the market, but it would certainly be an added value. This would be good for the company making them as well, as updates can be pushed out to the public when needed, and consumers end up with the latest fixes and or new potential features or improvements, until that model is no longer supported, usually supplanted by a much newer model. I realize some bugs don't effect the overall usability of a product, but some may, and the customer may feel a bit "slighted", when they find out that the next shipment is "improved", but their version is not able to be upgraded. It's a fairly simple solution that offers great benefits. I hope Dave considers this with his own MM product.

[Testing123]

Multimeters like most modern electronic computer chip driven devices these days would seem to be great candidates for user "updateable firmware"... it would certainly be an added value.

Planned obsolescence is the first thing that comes to mind.

[MacMeter]

Multimeters like most modern electronic computer chip driven devices these days would seem to be great candidates for user "updateable firmware"... it would certainly be an added value.

Planned obsolescence is the first thing that comes to mind.

Yes, the obvious one. From what little I've read on Daves latest MM product, it seems it may have the ability for firmware updates. I'm sure it will be released the day I can't return the BM235 to Amazon.

[jancumps]

So you buy a product, use it for a while and then return it?

[MacMeter]

So you buy a product, use it for a while and then return it?

What's the question behind the question?

[EEVblog]

So you buy a product, use it for a while and then return it?

What's the question behind the question?

It was pretty obvious. You implied you buy a product, use it, and then return it if something else comes along.
That explains the Amazon charge backs I've been getting on Amazon, of which the meters often are in unsaleable condition and then get scrapped because I can't ship them back to Australia.

[MacMeter]

So you buy a product, use it for a while and then return it?

What's the question behind the question?

It was pretty obvious. You implied you buy a product, use it, and then return it if something else comes along.
That explains the Amazon charge backs I've been getting on Amazon, of which the meters often are in unsaleable condition and then get scrapped because I can't ship them back to Australia.

Hi Dave,
The original question seems to imply some kind of ethical and or personal character assumption. Nothing technical about the meter itself, thus my response. I'm glad you felt compelled to respond.

Whether consumers or sellers find it unethical, the Amazon return policy being fairly generous is what makes using their service desirable for millions. A no questions asked return policy is one of the few pluses consumers have these days when buying new products, besides the hassle of credit card disputes. It makes buying something you are not totally sure about, a non-issue, since you have less to lose with the choice to return it within their return window. I'm sure they have figured out, that overall, most will keep their purchases, thus offsetting the returns.

Perhaps for some like me that are on a fixed income, you'll find buying electronics is a crap shoot. I don't have the funds to own as many meters that others can afford.

So, if you have unlimited resources you could buy whatever you desire, and if for what ever reason you were not satisfied you could put the device in a draw, or give it away, absorbing the financial loss. Sorry, I'm not in that position myself.

I can't speak for your business arrangement with Amazon, but I believe you recently posted you are moving away from doing business with the US division, which of course is entirely your choice as a supplier, just as returning a product within the posted rules of any website supplier, is my option as a consumer.

In this particular case, I have a small budget to buy my first and only multimeter, that I can only hope lasts me till I'm dead. Only very recently in your pubic forum has there been any information on the new meter you have been working on, I assume for sometime. While I understand from your perspective that availability and prices are unavailable or as yet unknown, but for a moment put yourself in the consumers position. The EEVBlog BM235 is NOT firmware upgradable, but from the little I know about your new meter, it may be firmware upgradable, which would make it much more desirable in terms of some future proofing. There are already two firmware updates to the BM235 since its release, so far nothing of significant importance I assume, but if one were an important safety issue, then what, no update path. I understand that most if not all current meters in this price range as of this writing are not firmware updatable, but that should not be an excuse for Brymen or anyone else not finding some of the obvious bugs in beta testing, before shipping the products.

Therefore, I'll be as blunt and honest as you are in your product reviews, then the fanboys can have at it.

I have no plans to return this meter, but would I under the circumstances I've described, YES, in a heartbeat. Why as a consumer should I have to accept an "inferior" product because the manufacturer couldn't get it right from the beginning. Once the return period is over, well then we are all stuck in the same boat. If money is an issue, then it makes sense to know your rights as a consumer and read the return policies of every company you consider buying from. Again, a major plus of Amazons service. Their prices are not always the lowest, but their NO BULLSHIT return policy is good for consumers.

So, if a consumer could only afford to buy ONE meter, and were to learn of a superior product within the return period of the one they just bought, returning it should not be an option?

I think the answer may depend on ones perspective, as either a seller or a consumer, and then of course those who might simply want to gain favor with you, and I'd discount those anyway.

Thanks for the response!

[EEVblog]

Hi Dave,
The original question seems to imply some kind of ethical and or personal character assumption. Nothing technical about the meter itself, thus my response. I'm glad you felt compelled to respond.

Whether consumers or sellers find it unethical, the Amazon return policy being fairly generous is what makes using their service desirable for millions. A no questions asked return policy is one of the few pluses consumers have these days when buying new products, besides the hassle of credit card disputes. It makes buying something you are not totally sure about, a non-issue, since you have less to lose with the choice to return it within their return window. I'm sure they have figured out, that overall, most will keep their purchases, thus offsetting the returns.

Sure, but just bare in mind that the supplier eats that cost if Amazon deem the product is not fit for return to sale. In this case, me.
The supplier can either have the unsellable stock returned to them at their cost (US address only) or it gets scrapped.

I can't speak for your business arrangement with Amazon, but I believe you recently posted you are moving away from doing business with the US division, which of course is entirely your choice as a supplier, just as returning a product within the posted rules of any website supplier, is my option as a consumer.

I am not moving away from Amazon, I am continuing to use Amazon FBA and expanding into other Amazon markets.

In this particular case, I have a small budget to buy my first and only multimeter, that I can only hope lasts me till I'm dead. Only very recently in your pubic forum has there been any information on the new meter you have been working on, I assume for sometime. While I understand from your perspective that availability and prices are unavailable or as yet unknown, but for a moment put yourself in the consumers position. The EEVBlog BM235 is NOT firmware upgradable, but from the little I know about your new meter, it may be firmware upgradable, which would make it much more desirable in terms of some future proofing.

It is firmware upgradeable, but it will also cost several times the prices. It is not a replacement for the BM235, nor does it serve the same market.

There are already two firmware updates to the BM235 since its release, so far nothing of significant importance I assume, but if one were an important safety issue, then what, no update path.

Correct, just like the majority of meters on the market, including the Fluke 87V you were looking at getting.

I understand that most if not all current meters in this price range as of this writing are not firmware updatable, but that should not be an excuse for Brymen or anyone else not finding some of the obvious bugs in beta testing, before shipping the products.

Shit happens.
It took years (ad decade?) for someone to find the GSM bug in the Fluke 87V.

I have no plans to return this meter, but would I under the circumstances I've described, YES, in a heartbeat. Why as a consumer should I have to accept an "inferior" product because the manufacturer couldn't get it right from the beginning. Once the return period is over, well then we are all stuck in the same boat. If money is an issue, then it makes sense to know your rights as a consumer and read the return policies of every company you consider buying from. Again, a major plus of Amazons service. Their prices are not always the lowest, but their NO BULLSHIT return policy is good for consumers.

So, if a consumer could only afford to buy ONE meter, and were to learn of a superior product within the return period of the one they just bought, returning it should not be an option?

I said nothing against that. I use Amazon and accept it's terms of service, it's the cost of doing business.
I'm just making you aware if you weren't already who bares the cost, it ain't Amazon, and it ain't Brymen.

[pascal_sweden]

Let's say that a user returns a product on Amazon, and the carton box is still in such a good condition, that the difference between a new product from the factory or the returned product is unrecognizable.

Can Amazon in that case sell the returned product back as a NEW product, or do they automatically HAVE to sell it as NEARLY NEW by company policy?

The reason why I am asking: In Sweden there were some big web stores in the past that took the freedom to sell these kind of returned products back as NEW products. But eventually some consumers discovered this (some stuff was missing in the carton box, or paper manual had folded pages, etc.) and then they stopped those practices AFAIK. But who knows... one never knows for sure!

I hope that Amazon is not going down to those practices, and plays things fair all the way!

[MacMeter]

Let's say that a user returns a product on Amazon, and the carton box is still in such a good condition, that the difference between a new product from the factory or the returned product is unrecognizable.

Can Amazon in that case sell the returned product back as a NEW product, or do they automatically HAVE to sell it as NEARLY NEW by company policy?

The reason why I am asking: In Sweden there were some big web stores in the past that took the freedom to sell these kind of returned products back as NEW products. But eventually some consumers discovered this (some stuff was missing in the carton box, or paper manual had folded pages, etc.) and then they stopped those practices AFAIK. But who knows... one never knows for sure!

I hope that Amazon is not going down to those practices, and plays things fair all the way!

I'm personally not aware of what Amazons policy is on putting returned items back in stock. As you mentioned in some cases it may be hard to know. If I couldn't tell and the product worked as advertised then I'd never know. I think that may be rare, since myself, and many read the product reviews and yes, I have read some reviews where buyers wrote their delivery was missing something or appeared to have been opened before. But, once again, if that were to happen, and you were not satisfied, you could of course return it within the return period. This same scenario could pertain to any online vendor or brick and mortar store, guess that's partly where the old saying came from: "BUYER BEWARE"!