Author Topic: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)  (Read 123480 times)

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Offline Carrington

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2014, 12:47:27 pm »
No, I don't have a TLA. If I had one, then would not bother you with my questions.
I just want to know, how it works in conjunction with an oscilloscope.



My apologies if I've bothered you.  :-[
« Last Edit: January 14, 2014, 12:49:12 pm by Carrington »
My English can be pretty bad, so suggestions are welcome. ;)
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Offline TiN

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2014, 01:03:54 pm »
Hm, somehow i thought you had one.
In simple words - TLA works like logic analyzer, iView scope brings analog waveform into TLA app window, that's it. Scope need to be set in correct horizontal/vertical ranges to capture signal well manually. TLA can trigger external scope (any scope) by BNC output, which can be synced to capture trigger of TLA itself.
Also there few more functions for high-speed signal verification, like iVerify, but that's pretty specific to some usage cases.

There is no other link except this, regarding TLA application and iView. I would not focus too much on specifically buying scope which supports Tek TLA iView.
Most of the time I use TLA just alone, debugging digital stuff. If I need see signal - i'd rather just hook a scope to interested signal and not bother with getting TLA and scope both setup right. 

TLA is not really realtime device, it's working differently that usual RT scope. Sample count may way from few hundred samples to 32M like on my hacked TLA7AA4 or even more on modern hi-end modules like TLA7BB4 or 7BC4.

You can download TLA application and play with it a little, it have demo mode when no real mainframe detected.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2014, 01:06:27 pm by TiN »
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Offline Carrington

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2014, 02:33:28 pm »
You can download TLA application and play with it a little, it have demo mode when no real mainframe detected.
Yes, off line mode.
Thanks.  :-+
My English can be pretty bad, so suggestions are welcome. ;)
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Offline sevastjan

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2014, 01:09:24 pm »
Great guide OP, thanks for that!

I have a scope (TDS7104) which hangs at the program start-up and I have followed your instructions on how to repair it (i.e. swapping the NVRAM battery and flashing). However, it's behaving a bit wierd after I opened it up; it doesn't boot anymore! :-BROKE

You see the bios boot-up on the screen but after that I just get a error saying "Incorrect system" and it doesn't want to proceed. I have looked at the diagnostic led and it hangs on '.8'. Have you experienced anything like this?

It was a while ago I tried to repair it and now it's just collecting dust, but I could get more details in the coming week.

Thanks in advance.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2014, 01:14:48 pm by sevastjan »
 

Offline TiN

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2014, 02:43:08 pm »
Quote
error saying "Incorrect system"

Seem your windows/HDD is bad, you need fix it first, and make Windows 2000 bootable :)
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Offline sevastjan

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2014, 03:04:58 pm »
But the funny thing is that it stopped booting properly right after I opened it up.

Also, forgot to say; sometimes (~once every 100th boot-up) it actually boots into windows. So I guess the HDD is working fine.
 

Offline TiN

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2014, 03:12:44 pm »
Check your harddrive. Maybe have bad sectors, which is not rare given age of those units.
It must boot every time :)
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Offline sevastjan

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #32 on: April 05, 2014, 03:50:51 pm »
Ok, I'll try that! Thanks  :)
 

Offline sevastjan

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #33 on: April 08, 2014, 01:47:32 pm »
Tried booting the scope up today. I had scanned the harddrive for errors, it found a couple which I fixed. Put it back into the scope and it booted!!  :scared: I restarted it a couple of times and it worked fine! I got the looping diagnostic led which is described in the first post.

I then proceeded with changing the NVRAM battery and connected the required RS232 cables. Tried booting it up... nope  :palm:. It seems I am back on square one, the diagnostic led has hanged on '.8' and I get the error message 'Incorrect system'.

I think the disk is fine but something weird is happening when I am fiddling with the battery.... any clues?  :(
 

Offline TiN

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #34 on: April 08, 2014, 03:16:44 pm »
What is your RS232 log? Can you post it here? There is a chance that PPC board may corrupt your MBR or FS on HDD.
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Offline sevastjan

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #35 on: April 08, 2014, 04:52:12 pm »
Sure, will do that! I didn't get any data when trying to read the RS232-bus, but that might be because I have a USB<->RS232 adapter, so I guess I have to switch pins from 11&12 ->13&14? Or maybe it is easier to connect it somewhere else on the board?

Thanks for your quick replies!
« Last Edit: April 08, 2014, 04:57:20 pm by sevastjan »
 

Offline acbern

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Re: Tek CSA7404 repair project
« Reply #36 on: April 20, 2014, 07:54:57 pm »
Careful swapping that motherboard out. The motherboard uses a custom bios that allows the VXworks to become bus master and take control over the harddisk prior to boot !

Don't make the mistake of flashing a regular bios in there , it will brick the machine. I've been there and done that ! the correct bios can be found on the harddisk as well as the flash utility for it. a stock motherboard will not work. there are only two motherboards that work in this machine and the 810 is the most performant of the two. the other runs win2000....
let it be ...

The other annoyance is loosing the ram contents. it removes the serial number from the machine and disables all options.
There is a way to restore it but you need a gpib adapter and send a commmand to the machine to contact the security manager and give it the root key.

@free_electron:
very preciouse comment, thanks. can you please be a little more specific here. how to call the flashing software and how to deal with the other boards (they are needed in the system to power the nlx board as you know).
i have the issue that I need to replace the nlx mainboard (a su810 from intel). can i just disable the other two pci devices (ppc board and graphics chip) by the two jumpers, boot into windows, call the flsahing sw (how?), flas the firmware hub, and all this without destroying the boards
« Last Edit: April 20, 2014, 07:56:53 pm by acbern »
 

Offline CSmith

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #37 on: April 20, 2014, 08:51:11 pm »
The Intel SU810 NLX motherboard guarantees Windows XP built-in driver support for all of the on-board peripherals. Electrically, it is a great match, but the ports on the rear may not line up depending upon the motherboard tray that your particular oscilloscope happens to have. (Tektronix went through multiple motherboard vendors for that oscilloscope over the years.) One can flash it with Intel's last BIOS update for that motherboard, version P10, which also supports later, faster processors. This can be done in-system without any other precautions. One can find this particular board on eBay by searching for "Intel D810 NLX". One will want to proactively replace the CMOS battery as these motherboards are new, very old stock. The only hardware configuration necessary is to set the two USB jumpers for the front panel setting as the second USB port is used to connect to the oscilloscope's front panel through the NLX backplane connector.
 

Offline acbern

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #38 on: April 21, 2014, 07:08:19 am »
hi. many thanks.
actually the board in my 7104 is exactly a intel su810. same name, same number (tek also used readisys e.g., but mine is the intel). I had just ordered the one on ebay, is on its way.
so here are some additional questions:
-but how do i flash it?
-and as free_electron states, how do i avoid it destoys the syste as he has experienced?

mine actually is in reset all the time. I also have a thread a little earlier about in the test equipment section about the reset issue. any comments here?
 

Offline TiN

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #39 on: April 21, 2014, 11:06:58 am »
I bought SU810 before as well, when was debugging scope, but it never worked.
Original in CSA7404 is SF810 Radisys, so after all it was all PPC configuration and NVRAM issue, so did nothing regarding x86 board, kept original board and replaced bodged capacitor and updated CPU to Pentium III-S 1400 (which working on 1050MHz due to 100MHz FSB).

SU810 missing interface bridge chip (National semi if I recall correctly).
When installed it was not powerin on at all. Did not bother much to find out why, just left it collecting dust now.
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Offline acbern

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #40 on: April 21, 2014, 01:56:16 pm »
I disabled both ppc baord and graphics chip, but my su810 (it is original intel, no radisys in my 7104) is in reset, so seems dead.
my only hope at this time is the new su810. nobody seems to have a hint how to debug su810 generating a reset and I have no schematics.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #41 on: April 21, 2014, 08:11:44 pm »
If you dig around a little on Intel's website you'll find reference designs for their chipsets. Did you check whether the CPU is still working?
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline acbern

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #42 on: April 21, 2014, 11:23:49 pm »
thanks, today I found a reference design for 810 chipset. the reset signal seems to be generated by the 810 gmch chip, which is a black boy essentially. i have ordered a celeron replacement cpu, which i will plug in just for tests, but i think the cpu is not the problem, since it is held in reset. 
 
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Offline CSmith

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #43 on: April 22, 2014, 05:36:03 am »
Another great upgrade to juice up one of these tired, old oscilloscopes is to install an inexpensive SSD. I went with the Kingspec KSD-PA25.6 PATA 44-pin MLC SSD. They can run as little as $50 delivered at the low-end, and range in capacities from 16GB to 128GB. While the SSD does not make it run that much faster during operation like the processor upgrade does, it does allow it to cold boot much more quickly and get away from the unreliable old notebook hard disk drives. In the scheme of things, it seems like it's a worthwhile investment to me.
 

Offline acbern

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #44 on: April 22, 2014, 06:56:36 am »
@csmith:
yes, agreed, i did that with another 7104 where the hdd had actually failed. if this one ever gets so far i will do the same. also the other drives should be replaced by nos ones.
also, I will replace the batteries by socketed and bigger batteries on a pcb that can easier be replaced (the one on the ppc board is a nightmare).

but first I would need to get your help how to flash the bios without killing the rest of the system...
 

Offline TiN

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #45 on: May 17, 2014, 11:08:41 am »
Poor thing died again. TekScope app shows splash screen, but hangs on it.
Yes, NVRAM battery.

Code: [Select]
Error in boot line:
]d«k[ÆÑ?_æëä6)4??â?2«óô
                   ^
Can't load boot file!!

Probably battery was not fresh, as it was only 9 month since I first got CSA7404 and fixed it.
And most of time it was just sitting on shelf turned off.

At such times one might appreciate that time was spend to write a worklog and post all photos and workarounds online, as now getting it fixed only takes five minutes to replace cell, hook serial terminal and write correct data for PPC config.
And good excuse to fix another minor issue with self-calibration data storage for probes.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2014, 11:26:42 am by TiN »
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Offline TiN

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #46 on: July 24, 2014, 07:56:44 pm »
A little update, with EEVBlog forum member magic, we can get keys for options on TDS7000/CSA7000 and probably other 70000 series scopes too :)

Quick check of concept proof with my CSA7404:



16 options enabled :)
Need to find out which bit does what and we good to go!
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Offline LostPhoton

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #47 on: August 22, 2014, 08:25:10 pm »
Hello,
I've been trying to connect to the UART on my 7404. I've established a serial link, but everything that comes up in the terminal is garbled junk.
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks in advance!
 

Offline TiN

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #48 on: August 23, 2014, 03:13:46 pm »
You probably have incorrect speed settings for UART port.
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Offline LostPhoton

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #49 on: August 25, 2014, 04:00:06 pm »
Are you referring to the baud rate? I'm using 9600. I've also tried a few different terminal programs, they all display the same garbled txt. Any other ideas? Thanks again!
 


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