Author Topic: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)  (Read 115629 times)

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Offline Jwalling

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #100 on: March 20, 2015, 09:50:08 pm »
Quote
If there's a collection of NVRAM dumps and their options

No need for that, need just little time, as there is way to generate option keys for any S/N :)
I am in progress of writing article for it (also supports not only TDS7k series gear ;))

Hi Tin,

Did you ever write this article or make any progress? I'd love to mess around and add options to my 7104...

Jay
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Online TiN

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #101 on: March 23, 2015, 03:56:44 pm »
Posted a draft.
I don't have time to finish it up properly, if anyone have wish to help - can list which bit unlocks which option, to create nice little table with respective data.
Also such approach works for TLA gear, but need check first.
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Offline marcusgun

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #102 on: April 25, 2015, 09:18:23 am »
First of all, a huge thank you to TiN and the rest of you for the information shared here!
I recently got my hands on a failed TDS7104 and thanks to this thread I was able to have it up and running after a 2-evening repair.  :D

It was basically the same story as told in post 99 by Gearhd1026 above. Both the NVRAM module and the battery module needed replacing (diagnostic stuck on .A and the console messages reported NVRAM self test failure.)
My unit has the 2M memory option which was re-activated by doing the NvRamClear operation.

Trying the keygen software provided by TiN, I find that I can also get the SM (serial mask) option by entering the flags 020400 (02=2M, 04=SM) but not much else. Filling the remaining flags with 0xff bytes just point to uninstalled apps. Has anybody else had more success? I am uncertain if specific software for the SM option has previously been installed on my unit or if it was activated by the key alone.





 
 

Online TiN

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #103 on: April 25, 2015, 12:08:00 pm »
Great to hear another fix. After unlocking options you will need to install software. Most of it you can download from Tek site.
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Offline marcusgun

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #104 on: April 26, 2015, 08:20:33 am »
Aha! Thanks TiN, I did not realize that this (old) application software is still available. :)
The unlocking bits for these applications appear from the 7th byte of the option data and onwards.

After trying a few of the apps, I see the need for more speed on the PC motherboard .. so I will continue looking into your suggestions for upgrades. I have already ordered memory DIMMs, as my unit was populated with only 128MB.

 

Offline Smith

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #105 on: May 04, 2015, 05:09:32 am »
I have read a lot, but can't figure this out: will a TDS7154 with 850MHz cpu & 512MB ram run XP? I know there are update kits, but I want to know if I could just install XP from a CD and install the Tek software.
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Offline Smith

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #106 on: May 07, 2015, 03:10:23 am »
Seems like it does. I have used another hard drive, but the XP install does feel a little faster. But I think the boot process does take a little bit longer, but not much. After installing Windows XP Pro SP3 from a standard CD the screen went blank. Seems like the wrong video card was used, but I couldn't change anything. It would boot in VGA mode and save mode (F8). After booting in save mode with second monitor to the NLX board all was fine.  After installing all drivers the TDS firmware pack worked. For future reference, an unknown USB device needed the USB front panel driver, the other unknown device needed the PPC board driver. After installing the right video driver (2.5.1) the first waveforms showed up.

I still want to try a PIII 1GHz CPU, this might make it feel even faster.

Still trying to fix the inputs. 1 is blown, and rarely works, 2 is OK, 3 is way out of spec and sometimes doesn't work, 4 is slightly out of spec and sometimes doesn't work. At least the ADC's seem to work.

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Offline CSmith

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #107 on: May 07, 2015, 04:06:01 am »
It sounds like you're on the right track. I feel like Windows XP is a decent compromise between the fast boot time of Windows 98 with ancient network stack and the slightly longer boot time of Windows XP, but with a much more robust network stack. The official Tektronix Windows 2000 load takes like 5 minutes to boot - nearly intolerable for me. I had an opportunity to conduct some boot timing trials and the boot time difference between 566, 850, and 1Ghz processors is within 15 seconds of each other. It makes a difference, but they're all going to be around the 90 second mark to first waveform display from power-on. I attribute the lack of a more significant variance due to the fact that BIOS initialization time is about the same and a chunk of the boot time is spent downloading and initializing the PPC board, which doesn't change at all. The 100MHz FSB speed to the memory is limiting the faster processors as well.

My biggest problem with the older stock motherboards was that I was unable to find a suitable NIC driver for Windows XP. That's what lead me to upgrading them first thing to the Intel SU810 NLX motherboard for which Windows XP recognizes everything at installation time. There were two different versions of the NLX motherboard tray though, so one needs to determine whether the SU810 will fit the tray in their scope. Otherwise some work with a nibbler tool may be necessary. Which motherboard does your scope have, and were you able to find a Windows XP driver for the NIC?
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #108 on: May 07, 2015, 05:16:11 am »
Did you use a normal hard drive or SSD? I usually upgrade equipment with a hard drive to a compact flash card. That at least kills most of the seek times. I have a Tektronix TLA704 with a Pentium-1 200MHz but that doesn't need 5 minutes to boot Win2k.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline CSmith

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #109 on: May 07, 2015, 06:45:21 am »
The Windows 2000 experience would have been with the original 4200RPM 2.5" drive, but the comparison to Windows 98 was valid at that time. Per my prior posts in this thread, I later went with Kingspec KSD-PA25.6 PATA 44-pin MLC SSD's as the original drives are becoming unreliable with age even if one wants to withstand their tardiness. That drive will drop right into Tektronix' proprietary drive tray.
 

Offline Smith

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #110 on: May 07, 2015, 07:57:53 am »
Im using a standard PATA 40GB Samsung 5400rpm 8mb drive.

 I don't know about the mainboard, but I couldn't find a NIC driver for XP too. I thought it may be the boot settings (cmos -r nonet) messing with it

. I guess my boot time is between 1 and 2 minutes until the first waveforms appear. I could probably save some seconds removing unwanted services and removing & disabling everything I don't need.
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Offline Smith

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #111 on: May 12, 2015, 04:29:32 am »
Has anybody ever fixed one of the 50ohm input resistors? They are probably blown, but I cant find them. I would guess they are near the Teledyne input relays. The relays themselves look to be ok. Thats a good thing, as they look to be hard to get and extremely pricey. As the 50 ohm resistor can take 5Vrms it would have to be a 1/2 watt 50ohm or two 1/4 watt 100ohm resistors. At 1,5 GHz I would expect 1 resistor. Should be quite easy to find.

I'm also having trouble with channel 3 and 4 not triggering. Unfortionately I cant find anything about the whole aquisition board / system.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2015, 04:32:07 am by Smith »
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Online TiN

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #112 on: May 12, 2015, 02:09:07 pm »
Mmm, some photos perhaps?
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Offline Theboel

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #113 on: May 12, 2015, 02:57:55 pm »
If You can shown the pic maybe its easier to give any sugestion but for working up to 1.5Ghz I believe you need an RF style resistor.
this a 50 Ohm 150w just for example.
http://www.rfparts.com/dummy-loads/dummyloads-surface/tg150-50.html
 

Offline Smith

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #114 on: May 12, 2015, 04:09:48 pm »
Here we go:


1. Bottom CH 1 and 2


2. Bottom middle


3. Bottom CH 3 and 4


4. Top CH 1 and 2


5. Top middle


6. Top CH 3 and 4


7. Bottom close-up


8. Top Close-up

Top is top as seen by the machine, NOT the PCB.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2015, 04:19:01 pm by Smith »
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Offline casinada

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #115 on: May 12, 2015, 04:56:32 pm »
May be those 4 resistors that look that they are in parallel, one set per channel? R1140, R1141,R1142, R1143 and R1240, R1241. R1242, R1243  :-//
 

Offline Smith

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #116 on: May 12, 2015, 06:13:48 pm »
Nope, looked at that already. Could it be possible the resistors placed in the ADC? Input impedance is 50Ohm +/- 2,5%, which I thought was odd for such a high end device. An internal resistance (in an ASIC) would of course be more difficult to match precisely than a "simple" SMD resistor.
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Offline Jwalling

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #117 on: May 12, 2015, 08:14:52 pm »
Nope, looked at that already. Could it be possible the resistors placed in the ADC? Input impedance is 50Ohm +/- 2,5%, which I thought was odd for such a high end device. An internal resistance (in an ASIC) would of course be more difficult to match precisely than a "simple" SMD resistor.

Some of those Teledyne relays may have the resistors internal to the relay, they refer to them as attenuator relays. I know that this is the case on Agilent 54831B and 54832B scopes... See attached pdf for Teledyne A150 series which are on the Agilent scopes I mentioned. One of them is actually custom made for Agilent IIRC. Good luck!

Jay
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Online TiN

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #118 on: May 12, 2015, 10:10:36 pm »
Pretty possible as resistors are in relays, as they have to work not to 1.5GHz but to 4+GHz, as top of the line TDS7404 uses same ACQ board, or almost same, and TDS7704B is very similar.

Or it could be those square thingy's on rigid lines in thermal shrink, but that's just ferrite bead likely to be.

Here are some photos of TDS7704B guts:




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Offline Jwalling

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #119 on: May 12, 2015, 10:23:00 pm »
Pretty possible as resistors are in relays, as they have to work not to 1.5GHz but to 4+GHz, as top of the line TDS7404 uses same ACQ board, or almost same, and TDS7704B is very similar.

Or it could be those square thingy's on rigid lines in thermal shrink, but that's just ferrite bead likely to be.


I believe your second guess is correct - I think those are ferrite beads as well. They look similar to Agilent 54835A and 54845A rigid lines from the attenuator assemblies.

Smith, I can't see the relays well enough to get a part number. Maybe that would help.

Jay

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Offline Smith

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #120 on: May 13, 2015, 12:14:57 am »
They are Teledyne RF170 - 0015 relais. BTW they are not 15V, they are 5V (~60 ohm coil resistance)
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Offline Jwalling

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #121 on: May 13, 2015, 12:57:50 am »
They are Teledyne RF170 - 0015 relais. BTW they are not 15V, they are 5V (~60 ohm coil resistance)

Naturally, that part number isn't in the pdf.  :palm:

Jay
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Offline klaus11

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #122 on: May 13, 2015, 04:31:33 am »
A little help please, I have on road a TDS5052B without probes, I have seen two new N2890A Agilent passive probes with same characteristics as Tektronix P5050.
My question, Will I get a good result with N2890A Agilent and Tektronix TDS5052B?
« Last Edit: May 13, 2015, 04:34:07 am by klaus11 »
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Offline Smith

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #123 on: May 13, 2015, 05:17:00 pm »
Still nothing found for the inputs, but I do got the network driver working under XP! It's on the Intel SU810 mainboard. I have searched the internet for hours, nothing worked. I saw other people having this problem too, so I was already looking for a USB / PCMCIA card. Turns out there was a driver map on the original Win98 HDD. Turns out the network driver map has a WIN 2K or XP compatible driver. The machine is running windows update right now!
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Offline Smith

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Re: Tek CSA7404/TDS7000 repair project (Upgraded memory/CPU)
« Reply #124 on: May 14, 2015, 05:58:44 pm »
Well, not much progress. Couldn't enable any of the options with TiN's keygen. The original key (with no options) validates ok, but the Tek software won't accept any new key created. Ill look into that some other time.

Channel 3 is now within 5% of the other channels reading. Been switching manually (with a 5V PSU) and comparing channels, and the resistance of the relay near the ADC's was 85 instead of 50ohms. Soldered in some parallel resistance and now it's close to 50 ohm. Strange thing is, it has to be a few ohms lower than other channels to be within spec. Guess it won't do 1,5GHz no more, but at least it should be usable in lower frequency ranges.

Channel 1 is still a showstopper. It has a 280mV offset on the ranges of 50mV and lower. Offset is the same on all ranges. Input will not produce any decent measurement. With an 1kHz 1Vpp signal I can see something superposed on the 280mV offset on the lowest ranges although roughly 200times lower than expected.

This messes up the SPC, so it wont remember its settings. It just says fail, and all channels on every range seems to have zero offset, except for the lower ranges of channel one (the 280mV offset).

I guess I could replace the relays with standard RF170 relays and place my own (quality) resistors in parrallel, but I cant seem to get these relays anywhere. Tried desoldering one of them, but the 12 layer board will take some more work than a standard desoldering gun.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2015, 06:05:06 pm by Smith »
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