Author Topic: Tektronix THS7xxx Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion - FW 1.16 found  (Read 73858 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Zucca

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 2167
  • Country: it
  • EE meid in Itali
Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Portable Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion
« Reply #125 on: December 11, 2016, 08:26:30 pm »
So.. what I will do next??? see attachment...
« Last Edit: December 12, 2016, 08:25:28 am by zucca »
Can't know what you don't love. St. Augustine
Can't love what you don't know. Zucca
 

Offline mk_

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 172
  • Country: at
Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Portable Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion
« Reply #126 on: December 11, 2016, 09:02:10 pm »
So.. what I will do next???


contact with spring-needles from the solderside? Solderdots could be 1,27mm-grid, so small needles should do it?

regards

Michael
 

Online TheSteve

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 3032
  • Country: ca
  • GHz
Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Portable Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion
« Reply #127 on: December 11, 2016, 09:48:58 pm »
30 gauge wirewrap wire is your friend - run them all all to a dip socket that can plug into a programmer.

I wanted to read a BGA flash part in a device once without removing it. Being I had already torn one down I had mapped which testpoints matched which connections on the flash so I soldered 40+ wires to the bottom of the board. Those wires went to a PCB with headers on it. A second device also had a similar setup wired into that had a JTAG interface. I connected the two together via ribbon cables and used the JTAG interface in one to read the flash in the other device. The processor was held in reset to tristate its inputs.

Oh the fun, I also went through hundreds of feet of 30 gauge wire to wire in TSOP flash parts to replace BGA devices so I could remove the flash and rear/write to it.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2016, 10:02:22 pm by TheSteve »
VE7FM
 

Offline Zucca

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 2167
  • Country: it
  • EE meid in Itali
Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Portable Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion
« Reply #128 on: December 13, 2016, 10:05:18 pm »
30 gauge wirewrap wire is your friend - run them all all to a dip socket that can plug into a programmer.

this idea was already there... but you inspired me to the next level... well sort of... thanks!!!!



another step further....
 
« Last Edit: December 13, 2016, 10:06:59 pm by zucca »
Can't know what you don't love. St. Augustine
Can't love what you don't know. Zucca
 

Offline Zucca

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 2167
  • Country: it
  • EE meid in Itali
Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Portable Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion
« Reply #129 on: December 16, 2016, 09:42:21 pm »
Well...  will it work?



Failed!



need to check the wires... tomorow..
Can't know what you don't love. St. Augustine
Can't love what you don't know. Zucca
 

Online BravoV

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6253
  • Country: 00
Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Portable Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion
« Reply #130 on: December 17, 2016, 04:15:40 am »
Zucca, just want you to know I really appreciate your efforts & sharing it here  :-+, guess I will keep popping the pop corns.  :popcorn:

Online TheSteve

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 3032
  • Country: ca
  • GHz
Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Portable Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion
« Reply #131 on: December 17, 2016, 06:16:22 am »
I assume you didn't connect Vcc from the programmer to the scope, the processor is being held in reset and the scope is being powered from its power adapter?
VE7FM
 

Offline Zucca

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 2167
  • Country: it
  • EE meid in Itali
Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Portable Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion
« Reply #132 on: December 17, 2016, 03:14:47 pm »
Thanks TheSteve and BravoV to stay with me. I am just trying to give back something to this community.

So I checked all the wires on my adapter and they are OK. I also soldered the RESET PIN on the PIN 34 on J1.

The problem was I got the 12V on the DC Jack there, but I forgot to switch on the scope. There was no VCC on the board.

All the time the µC was in HALT state by connecting PIN 79, 78 on J1 together:



To switch on the scope simply connect the PIN 15 and 17 on the J6 adapter:



and I got 320mA flowing on the 12V... before well it was pretty much 0... stupid me. VCC was now there nicely at 5.01V.

I fired up the MiniPro SW with this options:



and I got this error message...



so fine I deactivated the check ID:



and bingo:



the problem now is the data looks like garbage, and between different readings the data changes...  :o

Here what I got (thx TiN for the FTP server):

https://doc.xdevs.com/doc/Tektronix/THS7xxx_Portable_scope/FW/1.14_try/

Now, maybe the "Erase befor" Setting wiped out the EEPROM before reading? I think no.. no waring nothing...
Another fishy thing is the Chip ID changes from time to time between 0x82 82 to 0x92 92 (sporadically)... who knows...

next step I try to pull together the scope and see if I bricked it..

UPDATE: It still works... :phew:

Don´t know why I am not getting the consistent reading from the EPROM reader... may the cable adapter is not properly shielded????





« Last Edit: December 17, 2016, 04:51:45 pm by zucca »
Can't know what you don't love. St. Augustine
Can't love what you don't know. Zucca
 

Online TheSteve

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 3032
  • Country: ca
  • GHz
Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Portable Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion
« Reply #133 on: December 17, 2016, 06:38:20 pm »
Could easily be noise - the wires are pretty long for what you're attempting. If the chip ID isn't 100% the same every time there is an issue. It could also be a bad connection but I am thinking noise more then anything. If you're up for making changes I'd suggest shortening the wiring to 1/3 of its original length - or as short as possible.
VE7FM
 

Offline Zucca

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 2167
  • Country: it
  • EE meid in Itali
Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Portable Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion
« Reply #134 on: December 17, 2016, 06:53:46 pm »
Yep Steve you got it, I scoped out and the waves were shit...

Things are improving a lot when the 5V are feed on the J1 pin5 (not from the 12V DC Plug... )... after that I got sharp edges and cool digital signals.
It this case I got a reproducible FF all the time...

mmmm looks like the TL866 doesn't like this: OE (PIN 37 on the EEPROM) is internally generated by WE (PIN 35 on the J1 connector) in the scope.
There is a XOR which acts as a NOT, so OE=NOT (WE).

OE is not available on the J1 of course so I couldn't not connect it.

Unfortunately on the TL866 OE is something different than NOT(WE) and things are going  bad...

It could also be that the RY/BY (PIN 36 on the EEPROM) could play a role on the TL866 when programming the chip, and this is also not available on the bastard J1.

My conclusion: I think we need an external µC with a dedicated SW which can tap into the J1 and get the FW out... OR desolder the chip... 
« Last Edit: December 17, 2016, 08:02:45 pm by zucca »
Can't know what you don't love. St. Augustine
Can't love what you don't know. Zucca
 

Online TheSteve

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 3032
  • Country: ca
  • GHz
Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Portable Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion
« Reply #135 on: December 17, 2016, 06:57:58 pm »
Could you not directly solder just the OE wire to the flash chip itself?
VE7FM
 

Offline Zucca

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 2167
  • Country: it
  • EE meid in Itali
Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Portable Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion
« Reply #136 on: December 17, 2016, 07:15:42 pm »
Could you not directly solder just the OE wire to the flash chip itself?

First of all we need to disconnect the output of the XOR and then we can tap in...  well this is going to be messy... I will just desolder U1 and done. No need to build an J1 adapter and so on...
« Last Edit: December 17, 2016, 07:46:32 pm by zucca »
Can't know what you don't love. St. Augustine
Can't love what you don't know. Zucca
 

Offline Zucca

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 2167
  • Country: it
  • EE meid in Itali
Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Portable Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion
« Reply #137 on: December 21, 2016, 04:58:33 pm »
I ordered a air nozzle for the TSOP40 and the adapter for the TL866... I AM NOT GIVING UP.
Meanwhile a hero with a FW1.16 is needed so we can spread the last FW in the world: thinking on buying some U1 flash them and send those to you guys, anyone interested?

So while I am waiting for the parts to come in let´s modify the battery. I chose the 5000mA solution like posplayr did here.

Unhappy of that plus pole TEK crap patent solution, i decided to take apart the battery lid, wait a minute why no use a solder wick?



solder did not work there, no matter how much flux you out. So next step I press the solder wick between plastic and metal, to keep everything together I used hot glue which worked well (didn´t expect that)





then I soldered the plus cable, and there is even a little hook where the cable can be fixed on, thanks TEK!





Done:



Tested with 1.5A current the voltage drop af that thing is just 30mV... so cool.

Does the TEK have a reversal voltage protection if the battery is inserted other way? mmmm shottky diode?



 

« Last Edit: December 21, 2016, 05:05:22 pm by zucca »
Can't know what you don't love. St. Augustine
Can't love what you don't know. Zucca
 

Offline mk_

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 172
  • Country: at
Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Portable Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion
« Reply #138 on: December 21, 2016, 05:10:01 pm »

Meanwhile a hero with a FW1.16 is needed so we can spread the last FW in the world: thinking on buying some U1 flash them and send those to you guys, anyone interested?


Hm...  1.11 from a well running THS730A is the last I can offer (have to build adapter etc, so it will take time also), the others have 1.03 or 1.04 installed

regards

Michael
 

Offline Zucca

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 2167
  • Country: it
  • EE meid in Itali
Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Portable Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion
« Reply #139 on: December 21, 2016, 10:09:06 pm »
Hm...  1.11

Thanks Michael, but I have already the 1.14 Version... so we need someone with the 1.16
« Last Edit: December 21, 2016, 10:18:13 pm by zucca »
Can't know what you don't love. St. Augustine
Can't love what you don't know. Zucca
 

Offline djnz

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 163
  • Country: 00
Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Portable Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion
« Reply #140 on: January 05, 2017, 04:38:20 pm »
I have recently acquired a THS720A and this is a very interesting thread indeed! It came without the serial cable, and I wish to make one. I read the whole thread and there are some pinouts given, but I was not able to understand clearly what the connections are. Different sources also seem to follow different numbering conventions, adding to my confusion. I am attaching a picture with the pins clearly marked and labelled 1,2,.., 8 and a,b,c,...,i. Could someone with a working cable please post what the connections are with reference to this naming convention. Thanks.

Edit:

1. With hard flagging and soft flagging both set to 'off' (no flow control), communication works fine with just Tx, Rx and Gnd connected, as expected. So,

                      3 <-----> d
                      4 <-----> c
                      5 <-----> a

seem to be sufficient.

2. With hard flagging set to 'on' (hardware flow control), communication seems to work fine with the following connections:

                      1 <-----> e & g
                8 & 2 <-----> h
                      3 <-----> d
                      4 <-----> c
                      5 <-----> a
                      6 <-----> i
                      7 <-----> b
                      8 <-----> h

Tested with a Keyspan USA-19HS serial-to-usb adapter which is male on its serial end.
 
« Last Edit: January 07, 2017, 05:44:54 am by djnz »
 

Offline mk_

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 172
  • Country: at
Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Portable Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion
« Reply #141 on: January 05, 2017, 11:24:13 pm »
I have recently acquired a THS720A and this is a very interesting thread indeed! It came without the serial cable, and I wish to make one. I read the whole thread and there are some pinouts given, but I was not able to understand clearly what the connections are. Different sources also seem to follow different numbering conventions, adding to my confusion. I am attaching a picture with the pins clearly marked and labelled 1,2,.., 8 and a,b,c,...,i. Could someone with a working cable please post what the connections are with reference to this naming convention. Thanks.

Nice to meet you here

Did you download the schematic named THS7XXAPDiag.pdf? If so - look at pdf-page 9 and you find the RJ-Connector. 
http://kazus.ru/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25865&d=1315575619

There is also a file aviable called "THS720P Programmer Manual.pdf"
http://www.tek.com/oscilloscope/ths720a-manual/ths710a-ths720a-ths730a-ths720p-programmer-manual

 On pdf-page 18 you will find the pinassignments for the RS232.

Both files are too large for upload here to eevblog.

Michael
 

Offline BMack

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 219
  • Country: us
Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Portable Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion
« Reply #142 on: January 06, 2017, 06:49:19 am »
I ordered a air nozzle for the TSOP40 and the adapter for the TL866... I AM NOT GIVING UP.
Meanwhile a hero with a FW1.16 is needed so we can spread the last FW in the world: thinking on buying some U1 flash them and send those to you guys, anyone interested?

So while I am waiting for the parts to come in let´s modify the battery. I chose the 5000mA solution like posplayr did here.

Unhappy of that plus pole TEK crap patent solution, i decided to take apart the battery lid, wait a minute why no use a solder wick?



Tested with 1.5A current the voltage drop af that thing is just 30mV... so cool.

Does the TEK have a reversal voltage protection if the battery is inserted other way? mmmm shottky diode?

Damn, that's a good idea. I rigged a sleeve that I can slide Eneloop C battery adapters into and used copper tape to make the contact.

I really wish I could get myself an extra stand for it, the stand was broken when I got mine.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2017, 06:23:22 am by BMack »
 

Offline 1audio

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 78
  • Country: us
Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Portable Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion
« Reply #143 on: January 07, 2017, 12:46:40 am »
I found this assembled battery pack that is mostly ready to go for $15: http://www.batteryspace.com/nicdbatterypack48v30ah4xcendtoendwithtabs.aspx  It has tabs at each end. Its Nicad so it should work with the internal charger (or the external charger) with no problems once equipped with the connections. I'll need to either add the connection ring or modify the top connector to make it work. The connection ring is my first choice since I have one of the external chargers. I'll get one and try it if no one knows of a problem.
 

Offline 1audio

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 78
  • Country: us
Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Portable Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion
« Reply #144 on: January 07, 2017, 12:48:37 am »
The screen on my THS720 is really dim. I am ready to replace the backlight tubes but only if the dim screen is abnormal. Do others have the same experience? Should I explore LED retrofit options?
 

Offline BMack

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 219
  • Country: us
Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Portable Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion
« Reply #145 on: January 07, 2017, 06:27:17 am »
I found this assembled battery pack that is mostly ready to go for $15: http://www.batteryspace.com/nicdbatterypack48v30ah4xcendtoendwithtabs.aspx  It has tabs at each end. Its Nicad so it should work with the internal charger (or the external charger) with no problems once equipped with the connections. I'll need to either add the connection ring or modify the top connector to make it work. The connection ring is my first choice since I have one of the external chargers. I'll get one and try it if no one knows of a problem.

My original solution was a pack I made of rechargable C batteries. The 1.2V batteries would give me a "low power" warning after about 10 minutes. With the 1.5V Eneloops I get about an hour before the notification comes up. The C batteries wouldn't even last 40mins, Eneloops last about 90 mins.
 

Online BravoV

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6253
  • Country: 00
Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Portable Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion
« Reply #146 on: January 07, 2017, 06:39:28 am »
My original solution was a pack I made of rechargable C batteries. The 1.2V batteries would give me a "low power" warning after about 10 minutes. With the 1.5V Eneloops I get about an hour before the notification comes up. The C batteries wouldn't even last 40mins, Eneloops last about 90 mins.

+1, ancient NiCd C cells simply can't beat current Eneloop AA cells when it comes to run times, not to mention the high self discharge of those NiCd type. As my 2nd post in this thread, I use Eneloop "Pro" which has even higher capacity than regular white ones.

The only disadvantage that I can think of is, we can not rely on the scope's internal charging to change modern NiMh cells, especially in series, and I worry it might toast them as it looks like the charging mechanism is using dumb slow constant current charging,  cmiiw.

Online BravoV

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6253
  • Country: 00
Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Portable Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion
« Reply #147 on: January 07, 2017, 06:52:28 am »
I've been thinking if anyone with 3D drawing expertise could create a 3D model for the AA to C cells battery tube, as 3D printing service is becoming easier and cheaper these days.

Offline djnz

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 163
  • Country: 00
Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Portable Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion
« Reply #148 on: January 07, 2017, 08:56:42 pm »
I wrote a python program today for getting Hard Copy (screenshots) from these scopes in EPS Image format. I think EPS files handle resizing and PNG conversion well and thus and so they can be printed on paper at high dpi settings and used in reports etc..

I am attaching my zipped code as well as some EPS and EPS -> PNG samples obtained using the program.

Improvements and suggestions are welcome.
 

Offline BMack

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 219
  • Country: us
Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Portable Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion
« Reply #149 on: January 09, 2017, 06:50:55 am »
My original solution was a pack I made of rechargable C batteries. The 1.2V batteries would give me a "low power" warning after about 10 minutes. With the 1.5V Eneloops I get about an hour before the notification comes up. The C batteries wouldn't even last 40mins, Eneloops last about 90 mins.

+1, ancient NiCd C cells simply can't beat current Eneloop AA cells when it comes to run times, not to mention the high self discharge of those NiCd type. As my 2nd post in this thread, I use Eneloop "Pro" which has even higher capacity than regular white ones.

The only disadvantage that I can think of is, we can not rely on the scope's internal charging to change modern NiMh cells, especially in series, and I worry it might toast them as it looks like the charging mechanism is using dumb slow constant current charging,  cmiiw.

I ended up designing he tub to push the batteries out through the bottom and charge in the normal Eneloop charger, then I keep four Eneloops in the case. Admittedly that's overkill because I have three scopes at home, and I can use three at work. The portable is for when I want a scope and the piece is too big for the workbench. Three hours of runtime should be enough for any portable scope.

Did you have an issue with the "Pro" cells fitting? I thought they were a little longer than the regular Eneloops.

If any of you have access to a 3D printer, that would be perfect for this. A C-sized tube with a AA-sized hole in the middle would work better than the C spacers...would also be great to fix my darn stand too >:(
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf