Author Topic: Tektronix THS7xxx Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion - FW 1.16 found  (Read 144627 times)

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Offline r_anton

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Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion - FW 1.16 found
« Reply #325 on: January 18, 2021, 12:45:40 pm »
Mine has the same behaviour:

If scope don´t meassure nothing with shorted inputs, it usually means it's ok.

Think that this scope has isolated gnd and it has more noise when then are not connected
Thank you harrimansat
so, it means, that it has minimum 40mV error ?
 

Offline harrimansat

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Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion - FW 1.16 found
« Reply #326 on: January 18, 2021, 12:59:59 pm »
no, if you connect low, medium generator or resistor noise goes away. In high impeance meassurements noise is normal. For that with the probe you have less noise

Regards!
 
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Offline r_anton

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Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion - FW 1.16 found
« Reply #327 on: January 20, 2021, 01:01:01 pm »
no, if you connect low, medium generator or resistor noise goes away. In high impeance meassurements noise is normal. For that with the probe you have less noise

Regards!

There is another one question

it's generally considered, that the emission of the led used in photocouplers will degrade over time, 50% degradation over 5years. Mine is manufactured in 1997.
Have you any plans to change them ? Are they the same as in THS720 (HCNR201-300E) ?

 

Offline harrimansat

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Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion - FW 1.16 found
« Reply #328 on: January 20, 2021, 05:49:25 pm »
If you don´t have "Cal error, DC balance" I think it is not necessary to touch them. If your scope pass SPC optos are within tolerance
 
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Offline lor3n7o

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Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion - FW 1.16 found
« Reply #329 on: March 14, 2021, 12:28:10 am »
hello I have read this post and I must say that it is very interesting.
i wanted to make a request if someone can help me. i have a ths710a. i wanted to buy a P5102 HV probe but looking for it i saw that they have very high prices even if used. since it is passive I thought I would try to do it at home. does anyone of you know how the resistances of the divider 1/10 inside are configured?
from the datasheet it is understood that the total resistance is 5Mohm but it is not clear if there is a resistive part on the ground terminal.
thank you very much to those who can help me.
Greetings
 

Offline giacomo

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Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion - FW 1.16 found
« Reply #330 on: March 16, 2021, 08:42:50 pm »
hello I have read this post and I must say that it is very interesting.
i wanted to make a request if someone can help me. i have a ths710a. i wanted to buy a P5102 HV probe but looking for it i saw that they have very high prices even if used. since it is passive I thought I would try to do it at home. does anyone of you know how the resistances of the divider 1/10 inside are configured?
from the datasheet it is understood that the total resistance is 5Mohm but it is not clear if there is a resistive part on the ground terminal.
thank you very much to those who can help me.
Greetings

I think you are watching page 6 of the P5102 manual.

That page do not show you the internal costruction of the probe, but it shows how your instrument (scope + probe) is loading your circuit, so 5M is the total resistance seen from the load.

Try to look around, i think there must be a topic about the diy costruction of high voltage probes, maybe there are cheaper alternatives depending what is your need
« Last Edit: March 16, 2021, 08:55:46 pm by giacomo »
 


Offline lor3n7o

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Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion - FW 1.16 found
« Reply #332 on: March 16, 2021, 10:26:30 pm »
thank you very much for your reply.
very interesting this probe.
I suspect that the tektronix P5102 probe has a particular connection on the reference signal (that of the crocodile and the outside of the bnc connector) which allows to increase the level of the floating measurement.
look at the photo I am attaching.
 

Offline lor3n7o

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Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion - FW 1.16 found
« Reply #333 on: March 16, 2021, 10:35:34 pm »
This P5102 probe is declared as passive.
I suspect that on the ground terminal of the probe there is a resistance that guarantees greater isolation and thus the floating voltage that this ths700 oscilloscope can support increases from 30 to 600V.
It's possible?
Greetings
 

Offline giacomo

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Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion - FW 1.16 found
« Reply #334 on: March 16, 2021, 11:36:11 pm »
Let's say there is a resistor on the ground terminal of the probe and i want to use the P5102 on a grounded bench oscilloscope. Because.. Why not ?

If i want to measure something that is ground reference that resistor would be shorted.

With the same probe on my insulated oscilloscope it will not be and it should be part of the divider.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2021, 11:47:49 pm by giacomo »
 

Offline lor3n7o

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Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion - FW 1.16 found
« Reply #335 on: March 17, 2021, 12:09:40 am »
the p5102 is a probe exclusively dedicated to the ths700.
If my theory is correct it can only work on oscilloscopes with isolated channels such as the THS 700. It cannot be used on oscilloscopes with grounded ref, or with ref shared between channels.
In the datasheet of the wave the p5102 is defined as floating probe for THS700.
I am attaching a datasheet of the probe where it is illustrated.
 

Offline giacomo

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Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion - FW 1.16 found
« Reply #336 on: March 17, 2021, 12:23:23 am »
You are right  :-+ i was supposed to fully RTFM first

You can still use other types of probes unless you have a specific requirement

We know that the input resistance of the scope is 1M, the probe is a 10:1 divider, assuming that we are measuring at DC it might be 9M distributed equaly between the two sides like 4.5M resistors plus another 10M resistor from the tip of the probe to ground, this would be a possible configuration in order that the scope plus the probe attached will be seen from the circuit like a 5M resistor at DC

Similar for the capacitance, the capacitance seen from the load should be 11.2pF, the result of the parallel between a capacitance from the tip to ground and the series capacitance of the scope plus another capacitance in order to form a 10:1 divider. The capacitance of the scope is 25pF, we need a 9x larger reactance, hence a 9x smaller capacitance, 2.8pF, 1.4pf in parallel with each 4.5M resistor. 11.2pF minus 2.8pF in series with 25pF = 8.7pF (adjustable) across the 10M resistor

It might be more appropriate to open another topic about probes.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2021, 03:37:30 am by giacomo »
 

Offline harrimansat

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Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion - FW 1.16 found
« Reply #337 on: March 17, 2021, 09:55:35 am »
Which is tHe max working voltage between BNC GND, 30V?
 

Offline lor3n7o

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Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion - FW 1.16 found
« Reply #338 on: March 17, 2021, 12:13:32 pm »
Which is tHe max working voltage between BNC GND, 30V?

I assume 60V.
30V + 30V.
30V between each BNC-GND to internal scope GND.
30V when using a common probe or standard P6117.
When using the P5102 this value rises to 600V.
 

Offline lor3n7o

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Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion - FW 1.16 found
« Reply #339 on: March 17, 2021, 01:04:04 pm »
You are right  :-+ i was supposed to fully RTFM first

You can still use other types of probes unless you have a specific requirement

We know that the input resistance of the scope is 1M, the probe is a 10:1 divider, assuming that we are measuring at DC it might be 9M distributed equaly between the two sides like 4.5M resistors plus another 10M resistor from the tip of the probe to ground, this would be a possible configuration in order that the scope plus the probe attached will be seen from the circuit like a 5M resistor at DC

Similar for the capacitance, the capacitance seen from the load should be 11.2pF, the result of the parallel between a capacitance from the tip to ground and the series capacitance of the scope plus another capacitance in order to form a 10:1 divider. The capacitance of the scope is 25pF, we need a 9x larger reactance, hence a 9x smaller capacitance, 2.8pF, 1.4pf in parallel with each 4.5M resistor. 11.2pF minus 2.8pF in series with 25pF = 8.7pF (adjustable) across the 10M resistor

It might be more appropriate to open another topic about probes.

yes, I also assumed there could be a configuration like this in the probe. the only difference I thought is that the capacities in parallel to the 4M5 resistors are 5.5pf and not 1.4pf.
I believe the correct value is 5.5. to get the series 25pf-5.5pF-5.5pF = 2.48pF which in parallel with 8.7pf // 2.48 = 11.2pf.
Can this be correct?
It would be curious if someone who has a P5102 probe could check if there really is this resistance between probe ground and BNC ground.

Do you think it is better to open another post?
or we continue to talk here since we always talk about the ths700?
 

Offline giacomo

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Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion - FW 1.16 found
« Reply #340 on: March 17, 2021, 01:47:51 pm »
yes, i divided instead of multiply by 2 when i split that between the two sides

The talk has drifted more about floating measurment with insulated oscilloscopes or diy probe construction, another topic or topics may reach a larger audience

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/clarification-about-floating-measurement-with-an-insulated-oscilloscope/msg3516272/#msg3516272

It has already received responces  :-+
« Last Edit: March 17, 2021, 03:03:53 pm by giacomo »
 

Offline mrprecision

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Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion - FW 1.16 found
« Reply #341 on: May 10, 2021, 01:59:15 pm »
Quote
But the only software i managed to work is the wintek32, i tried to use tekvisa and waveform lab demo, both didn't work =/ any idea?

Two years ago, I wrote a software for my THS720P for grabbing the image from the scope and copy it to the clipboard, save it to a BMP file or print it. It should work with all devices out of this family. The interface allows all the functions of the device. I have only used the interface to setup the hard copy function and to trigger the hard copy function from remote.

Have a try: https://www.schaeck.eu/download/?dir=THS7XX%20HardCopy



« Last Edit: May 12, 2021, 07:12:26 pm by mrprecision »
 
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Offline kleiner Rainer

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Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion - FW 1.16 found
« Reply #342 on: May 12, 2021, 07:58:39 am »
Great! I tested your software on a Win10 Home (build 20H2) laptop with a FTDI-based USB-to-RS232 adapter and the original serial cable that came with my THS720. Works perfect.
Thanks a lot! Any plans to include some form of DMM logging for the THS-family?

Greetings,

Rainer
 

Offline HighVoltage

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Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion - FW 1.16 found
« Reply #343 on: May 12, 2021, 09:54:55 am »

Two years ago, I wrote a software for my THS720P for grabbing the image from the scope and copy it to the clipboard, save it to a BMP file or print it.

Thank you!
So far I have only used the Wintek software successfully.
I will try your software in the next few days and report back.
There are 3 kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those who can not.
 

Offline mrprecision

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Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion - FW 1.16 found
« Reply #344 on: May 12, 2021, 07:27:22 pm »
Quote
Great! I tested your software on a Win10 Home (build 20H2) laptop with a FTDI-based USB-to-RS232 adapter and the original serial cable that came with my THS720. Works perfect.
Thanks a lot! Any plans to include some form of DMM logging for the THS-family?

Greetings,

Rainer

Thanks for the feedback. I wrote the software in 2019 after I have repaired a THS720A. Since that time I have done some improvements. It is with version v1.1 possible to load the raw values out of the scope and do some post process with the software SignalAnalyzer, which is also programmed by me. So it is possible to zoom in the data, get statistic values and perform an FFT. If averaging is activated in the scope, the resolution will can be increased to 16bit. The THS7xx series was and is still a good and nice scope. The interface is well documented.

Have a look:

https://www.schaeck.eu/download/?dir=THS7XX HardCopy

Screenshots:



Averaging (Off/On 8/16bit):



Time- & Frequency Domain (FFT):







« Last Edit: May 13, 2021, 10:13:36 am by mrprecision »
 
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Offline mrprecision

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Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion - FW 1.16 found
« Reply #345 on: May 13, 2021, 05:43:50 pm »
I had some time last night and I have added a first function for the DMM. With this function you also post process the multimeter data. Anyhow the Scope stores only 480 samples in total. Old samples will be overwritten. So now it is a nice software, any further ideas?


 
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Offline kleiner Rainer

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Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion - FW 1.16 found
« Reply #346 on: May 17, 2021, 02:16:37 pm »
Tested THS7XX Hard Copy v1.2 and Signal Analyzer v4.2 while charging a car battery. The charger switches to trickle charge as soon as the battery reaches 14.5V. The log file and the time analysis show a strange behaviour during the fast drop of the battery voltage: it looks like every second data point is swapped. I attach the files to this post for reference and possibly bug hunting. Replace .txt with .sas

Greetings,

Rainer


 

Offline mrprecision

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Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion - FW 1.16 found
« Reply #347 on: May 17, 2021, 08:26:34 pm »
I have measured a slope, and couldn't believe what I have seen. On the falling slope I see a similar behavior. I have debugged the software, but the values are transferred in the ASCII format and already there the values show this behavior. I don't know what I should change there? Why is it working on the positive slope?

I had also problems with the scope values, the binary mode was not working correct, in the ASCII mode everything works fine.

Has anyone ideas to the problem regarding the falling slope?
 

Offline tv84

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Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion - FW 1.16 found
« Reply #348 on: May 17, 2021, 08:38:31 pm »
I would say that on the negative slope there must be some rounding that was not correctly implemented...
 

Offline mrprecision

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Re: Tektronix THS7xxx Scope Hack/Teardown/Discussion - FW 1.16 found
« Reply #349 on: May 17, 2021, 08:46:01 pm »
I have checked the binary transfer mode, there is the same result as for the ascii mode. I don't know what I should do?
 


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