Oscilloscope
Bandwidth 100-MHz Digital Real Time
Sample Rate 500 MS/s each channel
Time/Division Range 5 ns to 50 s/div
Channels Two
Sensitivity 5 mV to 50 mV/div (to 500 V/div with 10X probe)
Vertical Resolution 8 bits
Record Length 2500 points
Time Bases Main or delayed run after
Display Modes Vectors, dots, vector accumulate, dot accumulate, YT, XY
Triggering Main only, edge, pulse, video lines, video fields
Acquisition Modes Sample, envelope, average, peak detect
Autorange Controls volts/div, time/div, trig level and acquisition mode
Waveform Maths Ch1 + Ch2, Ch1 - Ch2, CH1 x Ch2
Cursors H bars, V bars, paired (volts @ time)
Measurements Pk-Pk, mean, min, max, rms, +width, -width, frequency, period, +duty, -duty, rise, fall
Multimeter
Resolution 4000 counts, 3.75 digits
DC Volts 400 mV-880 V True RMS
AC Volts 400 mV-640 V True RMS
Resistance 400-40 MW (with continuity beeper)
Diode Test Up to 2 V
Other DMM Features Autorange, true rms, average meas., hold, statistics, Min/Max Alarm
General Features
NV Storage 10 waveforms, 10 setups, 100 DMM saved screens
User Interface Simplified TDS 320 with pop-up menus
I/O RS-232 (to 38.4K baud)
Chassis Battery Operated, hand-held
Reliability Calculated MTBF 20,000 hours @ 25 degrees Celsius
156--7404--01
U1
IC, MEMORY; CMOS, FLASH ;1MEG X 8, 5.0
VOLT--ONLY, SECTOR ERASE;
AM29F080--120EC , 40PIN TSOPT&R
Flash memory which contains instrument
firmware, current setup, saved setups, saved
waveforms, saved data, waveforms, and
calibration constants.
Also does it came with the P6117 probes ? These P6117 probes are designed and built specifically for isolated probing, and its hard to find and quite expensive even its used. :'(
Btw, I made a discussion thread when I bought my THS710A -> HERE (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tektronix-ths710a-at-$190-grab-it/) while ago.
However it may be possible to upgrade with a PC serial port connection app. You'll have a build a cable first and run the software in a VM
Regarding the firmware if I still had my ths720a I would dump it for you. However it may be possible to upgrade with a PC serial port connection app. You'll have a build a cable first and run the software in a VM
What is the difference between FW 1.14 and 1.16?
If it is of interest, I could try to dump the firmware. I have not figured out the serial connection yet, though.
What is the difference between FW 1.14 and 1.16?
The firmware version 1.6 is for the 720P which has the power measurement option.
R_G_B
sieral connection pin out can be found here:
http://www.tek.com/support/faqs/what-pin-out-ths700-rj45-connector-rs232 (http://www.tek.com/support/faqs/what-pin-out-ths700-rj45-connector-rs232)
p2 Orange D8
P3 Black D4
p4 RED D3
P5 GREEN D1
P6 Yellow D9
P7 Blue D2
P8 Brown D8
R_G_B
Having plan to communicate with my recently bought (used) THS720 Std, unfortunately delivered without needed RJ45 to DB9 adapter, Tek part 103-0403-00, I have to build one myself.
In short, I’m not very sure said Tek’s information is correct, because therein two RS-232 signals, DCD and DSR, might be changed. I have reviewed following information precisely.
As the RJ45 pinout on page 1-8, table 1-3 of Tek’s Service Manual THS 710 & THS 720 TekScope, document no. 070-9246-03, seems to contradict the EIA-561 standard concerning RS-232.
Found two resources about said standard:
http://www.interfacebus.com/Design_Connector_RS232.html (http://www.interfacebus.com/Design_Connector_RS232.html)
/EIA-232 Bus Pin-Out
/RS232 RJ-45 Connector Pin Out
http://wiki.secretlab.ca/RS232_EIA-561_ (http://wiki.secretlab.ca/RS232_EIA-561_) ... DB9_wiring
/EIA-561 RJ45 to DB9 adapter pinout
Otherwise, said Tek manual is right as there is a reason said signals are wired as shown indeed. I would be happy if Tek could understand my point of doubt and clarify that point.
Having clarified Tek's RJ45 pinout is right, else which is, would help. A wiring diagram of the whole RS-232 connection even would be great. Thanks in advance.
Is your table based on a continuity test of a working cable?
Is your table based on a continuity test of a working cable?
I have a tested OK cable, let me know if you need the pinouts...
Yes to all your questions with the D connector pin numbers in reverse order to the tektronix illustration R_G_BP1 Grey D7Is the left column in your table ("p2" etc.) the RJ45 pins and the right column ("D8" etc.) the DB9 connector pins?
p2 Orange D8
P3 Black D4
p4 RED D3
P5 GREEN D1
P6 Yellow D9
P7 Blue D2
P8 Brown D8
R_G_B
Is your table based on a continuity test of a working cable?
]
Yes to all your questions R_G_Bp2 Orange D8Is the left column in your table ("p2" etc.) the RJ45 pins and the right column ("D8" etc.) the DB9 connector pins?
P3 Black D4
p4 RED D3
P5 GREEN D1
P6 Yellow D9
P7 Blue D2
P8 Brown D8
R_G_B
Is your table based on a continuity test of a working cable?
]
Not likely, as D5 (GND) is missing. There should be a line P4-D5.
However there is P5-D1, which indicates that both connectors are numbered in reverse order.
Edit: there is also a RJ-45 Connector pinout in the user manual:
1 DCD
2 DSR
3 DTR
4 GND
5 RXD
6 TXD
7 CTS
8 RTS
Thanks R_G_B, I was just going to double check that. It looks like the 1.16 goes also on the THS720a too.
Oh man I need a day with 48 hours to work on all my projects... can´t wait to start again on this one.
@Nixxon
I am currently en route to Oslo aboard Fred Olsen's MS Balmoral. We arrive 09:30 tomorrow morning for the Regatta and stay overnight .... looking forward to seeing all the boats :)
Aurora
If it is possible to dump firmware by the RS-232 connection, I will give my RJ-45 <---> DB-9 cable another try when I get back home on Sunday after sailing The Færderen* 2015 - hmm, I wonder if the King** will participate this year...
When I reverse R_G_B_'s numbering of both connectors, the measured pins by R_G_B_ matches the info on the Tek FAQ. Pin 8 (on RJ-45) seems not to be connected though.I've checked my cable and it is exactly the same as in the Tek FAQ, except that the RJ45 is reversed. As if the layout pictured the RJ45 socket in the scope, from the outside - or the plug looked at from above with pins on the top, the cable on the bottom and the locking tab underneath and not from the front as the picture shows.
So, when unscrambled the R_G_B_ values are:
RJ-45 --> DB-9
1 -------> 7
2 -------> 4
3 -------> 6
4 -------> 5
5 -------> 3
6 -------> 2
7 -------> 7
8 -------> not connected
There should be continuity between RJ-45 pins 1 and 7
Could anyone please check if there is continuity between DB-9 pins 1 and 8?
And if RJ-45 pin 8 is connected to DB-9 pin 1 and/or pin 8?
I've checked my cable and it is exactly the same as in the Tek FAQ, except that the RJ45 is reversed. As if the layout pictured the RJ45 socket in the scope, from the outside - or the plug looked at from above with pins on the top, the cable on the bottom and the locking tab underneath and not from the front as the picture shows.
This is the flat-cable and adapter, that came with my THS-720P
Pin 9 is not connected at all.
Comparing the firmware 1.08 to 1.6 you can see the update speed on the later firmware 1.6 seems faster. Maybe a couple of performance enhancement with regards to waveform update and responsiveness of the UI.
R_G_B
So, it is not True RMS.
What a surprise, I did not know this about the THS720P.
...
Thanks HighVoltage, you save me to do the same this WE. nixxon I am now curious , does it work now?
Any tips on how to make Tektronix Instrument Manager recognise the scope?I had many problems with the Tektronix Instrument Manager and remember calling Tektronix in those days a lot for help.
Any tips on how to make Tektronix Instrument Manager recognise the scope?I had many problems with the Tektronix Instrument Manager and remember calling Tektronix in those days a lot for help.
But it never worked in a reliable way.
At the end of the day I just needed to save the screen shots and for that I used a different software that worked extremely well.
Then I never went back to the Tektronix Instrument Manager.
At one time I got the LabView drives and integrated the scope in to LabView, which also worked perfectly.
That LabView driver even worked in DasyLab.
...
I found a small piece of software once to make a relative fast screen shot to .JPG from the RS232 port.
It worked very well.
If anyone is interested, let me know and I will upload it somewhere.
...
This is the original page that has the screen capture program:
www.bobblick.com/techref/projects/ths720/ths720.html (http://www.bobblick.com/techref/projects/ths720/ths720.html)
The URL is long gone but you can still see it using the Way Back Machine. I used the tek.exe program for many years with my THS720.
I have attached the Dos/Windows versions, a Linux perl version(remove the .txt) and the original qbasic source code(again remove the .txt). All of it is credited to the original creator Bob Blick.
The screen capture software that I have been using since 1999 is called Wintek32 and was made by Martin Lafferty under the company name of "Production Robots 1997" in England. In those days I was in contact with Martin and he added a few features for me.
The latest Version that he release, is the attached one v2.0.5.21
The battery charger works like this (according to my reverse engineering):
VBatt <3.5V: CC charge at 110mA
VBatt >3.8V: charge current [mA]= -187.27*VBatt[V]+1283.63
3.5V<VBatt <3.8V: Previous state
On September 9, 2011 at 9:11pm
Edward wrote:
the best C-rate for chargeing NiMH is 0.2C-rate charge 6Hours
NiMH dislikes overcharge and the trickle charge is set to around 0.05C. NiCd is better at absorbing overcharge and the original NiCd chargers had a trickle charge of 0.1C. The differences in trickle charge current and the need for more sensitive full-charge detection render the original NiCd charger unsuitable for NiMH batteries. A NiMH in a NiCd charger would overheat, but a NiCd in a NiMH charger functions well. Modern chargers accommodate both battery systems.
I think you will be hard pressed to pay less than the 4 NI-MH C cells @ 5000 mA-Hr,($18) not requiring holders and they are far less likely to overcharge in the scope. On top of that they have more capacity. Am I missing something????
I was trying to use AA 2500mah.
R_G_B
We've had no issues with excess heat using 2500 mAh Eneloops cells. We only use the scopes built in charger and not the external fast charger. The factory battery was rated at 2800 mAh and was probably closer to 2000 after a few uses anyway, so I see no issue with the internal trickle charger.
Unless I somehow totally missed it the internal charger on the THS7xx series is trickle only. The external charger is a fast type charger which should use a negative delta V (peak detect) which is unsuitable and shouldn't be used for NiMH cells(they have a much smaller drop when charged).
Unless of course the charger is horribly designed and uses a timer, I haven't opened the one here.
The battery charger works like this (according to my reverse engineering):
VBatt <3.5V: CC charge at 110mA
VBatt >3.8V: charge current [mA]= -187.27*VBatt[V]+1283.63
3.5V<VBatt <3.8V: Previous state
according to the formula the max charging current at 3.8V is .57 amps or 0.2C for a 2800 mAmp-Hr or 0.11C for a 5000 mAmp-Hr.
I just opened my original Tektronix external charger and took some pictures.
Here you go:
I don't know; the OP claimed to have "reverse engineer the battery charger" I assumed they meant the one inside of the scope. Using his numbers it would be charging at C/5.
I don't know; the OP claimed to have "reverse engineer the battery charger" I assumed they meant the one inside of the scope. Using his numbers it would be charging at C/5.
Right! I had the 12V DC External plugged in and a DC Load (BK Precision 8500) instead the battery. I was simply going up and down with the V on the DC Load and tracking down the current the internal scope charger was spitting out.
Those 5000mAh C size look sexy!
Thanks for the confirmation on the charge rate. I have not burned my lab down yet so the 5000 mA-hr must be good right? :phew:
PS.I have even heard, that when you send it to Cologne, it will be forwarded to the US for repair.
Out of curiosity I "naively" asked Tektronix the spare part.
- "We are sorry but the part you request is out of production. However you can send your device for repair to our service center in Cologne." (I live in Italy)
- "How much would it cost?"
- 1k € plus shipping
Hacking the THS 700 series works perfectly well! :D ...just converted a THS710A to a THS720P :D
At 100MHz I measured a level drop of about 0.9dB. Didn't bother to measure the 3dB frequency. Also power measurements work (firmware 1.14 on mine).
If you have a 710A, just remove resistors R207, R213 and R205 (to make it a 720P) or R204 (to make it a 720A). Hacking it into a THS730A isn't easily possible since other front-end hybrids would be required among some other stuff.
Cheers,
Thomas
Also is there anyway to grab the latest firmware and has anyone attempted it yet?
Hacking the THS 700 series works perfectly well! :D ...just converted a THS710A to a THS720P :D
At 100MHz I measured a level drop of about 0.9dB. Didn't bother to measure the 3dB frequency. Also power measurements work (firmware 1.14 on mine).
If you have a 710A, just remove resistors R207, R213 and R205 (to make it a 720P) or R204 (to make it a 720A). Hacking it into a THS730A isn't easily possible since other front-end hybrids would be required among some other stuff.
Cheers,
Thomas
TurboTom
That hack is great.
I have a few "none P" versions and will try it out.
Thanks so much
Also how easy would it be to get the firmware off of one of these things ?
U1
IC, MEMORY; CMOS, FLASH ;1MEG X 8, 5.0
VOLT--ONLY, SECTOR ERASE;
AM29F080--120EC , 40PIN TSOPT&R
4.4.1.10 Halt Signal
The halt signal (HALT) can be asserted by an external device for debugging purposes
to cause single bus cycle operation or (in combination with BERR) a retry of a bus cy-
cle in error. The HALT signal affects external bus cycles only, so a program not requir-
ing the use of external bus may continue executing, unaffected by the HALT signal.
When the MCU completes a bus cycle with the HALT signal asserted, DATA[15:0] is
placed in the high-impedance state, and bus control signals are driven inactive; the ad-
dress, function code, size, and read/write signals remain in the same state. If HALT is
still asserted once bus mastership is returned to the MCU, the address, function code,
size, and read/write signals are again driven to their previous states. The MCU does
not service interrupt requests while it is halted. Refer to 4.5.5 Bus Exception Control
Cycles for further information.
Here some photos -- haven't yet assembled a serial cable to download the screenshots directly. Sorry for the poor quality, had to use the shitty cell phone camera ::)
Looks like the firmware changes were about fixing bugs in the firmware ..
https://forum.tek.com/viewtopic.php
Looks like the firmware changes were about fixing bugs in the firmware ..
https://forum.tek.com/viewtopic.php
I searched, but can't find it ? :-//
Anyway, if its bugs fixed, then I'm looking for 1.16 dump, anyone ?
As a last resort I thought the complete factory calibration of the scope section might possibly help, and fortunately, it did the trick! DC offset vanished completely. ;D
I have never heard of this scope software before.
The best external software for these I have found comes from Metratek; http://www.metratek.com/ (http://www.metratek.com/) That software also works with a number of other scopes including my 7854. The "p" version gets the power measurement features like the 720P.
I would also be interested in the little software app to capture the screen.
Best Wishes
Aurora
It looks like I found the J1 connector
Molex 15-92-2480 (http://www.molex.com/molex/products/datasheet.jsp?part=active/0015922480_PCB_HEADERS.xml)
the dimensions match with the drawing here:
http://www.molex.com/pdm_docs/sd/015922480_sd.pdf (http://www.molex.com/pdm_docs/sd/015922480_sd.pdf)
...still waiting for the Adapter board... but now I have more hope than before... It should be the right one...
So.. what I will do next???
30 gauge wirewrap wire is your friend - run them all all to a dip socket that can plug into a programmer.
Could you not directly solder just the OE wire to the flash chip itself?
Meanwhile a hero with a FW1.16 is needed so we can spread the last FW in the world: thinking on buying some U1 flash them and send those to you guys, anyone interested?
Hm... 1.11
I have recently acquired a THS720A and this is a very interesting thread indeed! It came without the serial cable, and I wish to make one. I read the whole thread and there are some pinouts given, but I was not able to understand clearly what the connections are. Different sources also seem to follow different numbering conventions, adding to my confusion. I am attaching a picture with the pins clearly marked and labelled 1,2,.., 8 and a,b,c,...,i. Could someone with a working cable please post what the connections are with reference to this naming convention. Thanks.
I ordered a air nozzle for the TSOP40 and the adapter for the TL866... I AM NOT GIVING UP.
Meanwhile a hero with a FW1.16 is needed so we can spread the last FW in the world: thinking on buying some U1 flash them and send those to you guys, anyone interested?
So while I am waiting for the parts to come in let´s modify the battery. I chose the 5000mA solution like posplayr did here (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tek-ths720a-portable-scope-teardowndiscussion/msg840577/#msg840577).
Unhappy of that plus pole TEK crap patent solution, i decided to take apart the battery lid, wait a minute why no use a solder wick?
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tek-ths720a-portable-scope-teardowndiscussion/?action=dlattach;attach=279537;image
solder did not work there, no matter how much flux you out. So next step I press the solder wick between plastic and metal, to keep everything together I used hot glue which worked well (didn´t expect that)
[img]https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tek-ths720a-portable-scope-teardowndiscussion/?action=dlattach;attach=279539;image
[img]https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tek-ths720a-portable-scope-teardowndiscussion/?action=dlattach;attach=279541;image
then I soldered the plus cable, and there is even a little hook where the cable can be fixed on, thanks TEK!
[img]https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tek-ths720a-portable-scope-teardowndiscussion/?action=dlattach;attach=279543;image
[img]https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tek-ths720a-portable-scope-teardowndiscussion/?action=dlattach;attach=279545;image
Done:
[img]https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tek-ths720a-portable-scope-teardowndiscussion/?action=dlattach;attach=279547;image)
Tested with 1.5A current the voltage drop af that thing is just 30mV... so cool.
Does the TEK have a reversal voltage protection if the battery is inserted other way? mmmm shottky diode?
I found this assembled battery pack that is mostly ready to go for $15: http://www.batteryspace.com/nicdbatterypack48v30ah4xcendtoendwithtabs.aspx (http://www.batteryspace.com/nicdbatterypack48v30ah4xcendtoendwithtabs.aspx) It has tabs at each end. Its Nicad so it should work with the internal charger (or the external charger) with no problems once equipped with the connections. I'll need to either add the connection ring or modify the top connector to make it work. The connection ring is my first choice since I have one of the external chargers. I'll get one and try it if no one knows of a problem.
My original solution was a pack I made of rechargable C batteries. The 1.2V batteries would give me a "low power" warning after about 10 minutes. With the 1.5V Eneloops I get about an hour before the notification comes up. The C batteries wouldn't even last 40mins, Eneloops last about 90 mins.
My original solution was a pack I made of rechargable C batteries. The 1.2V batteries would give me a "low power" warning after about 10 minutes. With the 1.5V Eneloops I get about an hour before the notification comes up. The C batteries wouldn't even last 40mins, Eneloops last about 90 mins.
+1, ancient NiCd C cells simply can't beat current Eneloop AA cells when it comes to run times, not to mention the high self discharge of those NiCd type. As my 2nd post in this thread, I use Eneloop "Pro" which has even higher capacity than regular white ones.
The only disadvantage that I can think of is, we can not rely on the scope's internal charging to change modern NiMh cells, especially in series, and I worry it might toast them as it looks like the charging mechanism is using dumb slow constant current charging, cmiiw.
The C batteries wouldn't even last 40mins
Should I explore LED retrofit options?
The C batteries wouldn't even last 40mins
Did you use 5000 mAh NiMH C Batteries?
The biggest problem is the annoying "Low battery" warning that comes up every few mins, it literally takes less than 10 minutes to start popping up.
"Low Battery" warning appears at 4.6V. The power cuts off at 4.2V.
When the scope is unplugged and the battery is in it does it draw from the battery? Should I pull the battery when the scope will be sitting for a while?
Did you have an issue with the "Pro" cells fitting? I thought they were a little longer than the regular Eneloops.
If any of you have access to a 3D printer, that would be perfect for this. A C-sized tube with a AA-sized hole in the middle would work better than the C spacers...would also be great to fix my darn stand too >:(
This is an untested file that I pulled from a flaky THS720A. I desoldered U1 using just enough heat to melt regular leaded solder and Chip Qwik low melt alloy. Used self stick heatsinks and standard ESD prevention. Got a good read and verify using a TL866A. When I copied the file to a new chip and installed it in the scope it would not initialize. I reinstalled the original U1 and it acted the same way. Don't know if the file is corrupt or if I somehow damaged the mainboard on the scope with my desoldering and soldering. Use at your own risk!!
Has anyone checked the contents of the file? The one I downloaded appears to be empty (0xff).
I will perform a CSize 5Ah discharge test @1.2A (scope drain when on incl. Backlight) and report the results...
I will perform a CSize 5Ah discharge test @1.2A (scope drain when on incl. Backlight) and report the results...
So here we go. My batteries are these ones:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/291785752982?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.de/itm/291785752982?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)
@CC 1.2A Discharge Test, I got the following:
4,6V Battery Low after 2 hours and 34 min beginning
4,2 Cut off after 2 hours and 58 min from beginning
Battery was charged 24 hours inside the Tek scope by 12VDC ext., left inside for more than 2 weeks. I turned on the scope 2 or 3 times for one minutes... just to see if I was already in bettery low state, and I wasn't.I then took out the battery and performed the test this morning. At the beginning the battery voltage was 5,23V.
Attached the raw data.
So far no problem... now 'I'm recharging the batteries.
4500 mAh AccuEvolution LSD NiMh C cells. These are high quality cells and not some over-spec'd Chinese junk. It is still going strong.
Those batteries look nice, I will try a set in one of my Tek scopes.
So here we go. My batteries are these ones:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/291785752982?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.de/itm/291785752982?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)
that said, what would you want to achive once you have dumped the chip?
Looking at the schematic, I can't see a reason why it would not work as the 12v wall adaptor ends up feeding the same supply much higher than 4.8v.
Next week I will post dump of 1.08.
superman13
Thanks, as soon I go back in my Lab in May I will unleash the 1.14 FW.
The FW 1.16 hunt is officially open, I will update the thread title and first post.
Did you recalibrated the unit? As far as I now in that chip there are also the calibrations parameters.
Did you recalibrated the unit? As far as I now in that chip there are also the calibrations parameters.
Is the LCD dead, or are the polarizers bad? I successfully replaced both polarizers on mine with no prior experience. Time consuming, but not that difficult.superman13
Thanks, as soon I go back in my Lab in May I will unleash the 1.14 FW.
The FW 1.16 hunt is officially open, I will update the thread title and first post.
Did you recalibrated the unit? As far as I now in that chip there are also the calibrations parameters.
I have to calibrate it but now I have to buy another display, because one of my THS720 has broken LCD. But these lcd's are still expensive |O
PS. Tried someone to replace LCD with another one more accessible, newer, cheaper? :D
Is the LCD dead, or are the polarizers bad? I successfully replaced both polarizers on mine with no prior experience. Time consuming, but not that difficult.
Oh well. Yeah, with new LCDs selling for $150 US on eBay, and whole 720s with accessories selling (I'm talking what units actually sold for, not the insane prices some people ask) for $300-350 or so, it's tough to justify.Is the LCD dead, or are the polarizers bad? I successfully replaced both polarizers on mine with no prior experience. Time consuming, but not that difficult.
It's broken :horse:
https://i.imgur.com/y9lGQeZ.jpg
Really wish there is a way to copy the calibration values ... :'(
My unit needs to be calibrated anyway and the calibration procedure it is not so difficoult... Actually it's not so bad to recalibrate the unit after a while...
Anyway I will readout the FW before and after the calibration so we can see what does it changed.
I am sure there is a CRC somewhere too...
share the recalibration process here.
156--6553--00 U1 IC, MEMORY; CMOS, FLASH;1MEG X 8,
120NS;E28F008SA, TSOP40
Flash memory which contains instrument
firmware, current setup, saved setups, saved
waveforms, saved data, waveforms, and
calibration constants.
I don't have the supporting equipments as the minimum requirements to do that.
We need to find out where the serial number and the calibrations parameters are... and then save them out.Well, it should be easy to locate the calibration parameters if one can dump the contents of the flash before and after calibration.
In that case I will get DUMP from this scope and i'm that THS730 has the same firmware as THS710, 720 :)
If anyone knows if there are different firmwares, please let us know about this.
I have a THS720P with FW 1.16
What is involved in reading out the FW?
YES!!!
HV can read my mind.
I will send you my DMM7510 as a small thank you...
Let´s talk about this in May when I will be back home.
0%.
That girl and work is sucking all my time.
When I received my (then) THS710A, both scope channels showed some DC offset that changed with the input sensitivity ranges selected. DC path compensation didn't correct this and I read somewhere in the forum that this is relateds to "worn out" analog optocouplers (CNR-201A) that are used to transfer the DC component of the input signal across the isolation barrier. Since these components are not particularly expensive. I decided to get some and replace them.
Guess what the result was: Same picture as before :o
As a last resort I thought the complete factory calibration of the scope section might possibly help, and fortunately, it did the trick! DC offset vanished completely. ;D
I just wanted to post the information in this thread since it seems to be the most comprehensive and as I understand, many of the THS700 models suffer more or less severely from the DC offset over the time. Calibration is very simple and all that's required for the job is a good (arbitrary) function generator that's capable of outputting a square wave with half-way decent rise time (<20ns) and a DC voltage (the accuracy of the latter should be checked with a reliable multimeter). Fortunately, the scope section and the DMM section of the THS700 is calibrated separately and the DMM section calibration is very unlike to deteriorate over time.
All the information required for the job is available in the service manual, starting at page 51: http://de.tek.com/oscilloscope/ths720a-manual/ths710a-ths720a-ths730a-ths720p-service-manual (http://de.tek.com/oscilloscope/ths720a-manual/ths710a-ths720a-ths730a-ths720p-service-manual)
My recommendation in case of DC offset problems is to try this calibration before swapping out any components, especially since removal of the analog isolators is a real PITA....
Cheers,
Thomas
P.S. Some calibration steps really take some time and the instrument may appear like it's crashed -- just get yourself a cup of coffee (or whatever you feel like having at the time...) and wait. The screen contrast is set to 50% during calibration, on my THS700 this results in a rather dim screen (normally it's set at 65%), so don't worry if something like this happens.
Hi TurboTom
I understand this is a very old thread but I was hoping you or someone on this thread can help. I have a THS720A with the same DC offset issues. I have done the calibration as you suggested twice but the offset comes back after a short while. It is good right after calibration but in an hour or two it comes back again. Any suggestion? Should I go for replacing the optocouplers?
thanks
Picture of an attenuator with the shield removed is here: http://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/File:Ths720std-scopeanalog.JPG (http://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/File:Ths720std-scopeanalog.JPG). There are other internal pictures of my unit (which is a STD, not an A) on the primary tekwiki page at http://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/THS720 (http://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/THS720)
I used metcal hot tweezers with wide tips to do mine, another method is to use chip-quik with a hot air gun. Clipping the pins is probably the easiest solution if you only have a soldering iron.
Usually only the output optoisolators (U45, U46) need to be replaced. The two others (U50, U63) are reversed, they supply the attenuator with an isolated offset signal generated by the DAC multiplexer U5. They will all eventually wear out due to the ageing characteristics of the LEDs in the optocouplers. Not sure how good the long term supply of these parts will be due to the HP/Avago/Broadcom saga.
One thing to note is that in those two ranges the X10 attenuator kicks in while in other ranges either there is no attenuator or only the X100 attenuator is in the signal path.
Any suggestions?
One thing to note is that in those two ranges the X10 attenuator kicks in while in other ranges either there is no attenuator or only the X100 attenuator is in the signal path.
Any suggestions?
Yes, should be quite obvious: There's an issue with the X10 attenuator. Maybe a capacitor gone bad. The usual scope attenuator is a parallel connection of a high impedance resistive divider and a capacitive divider of the same ratio. If DC is OK, I'd believe the resistors are still OK, but if you've got a deviation at AC, there's a mismatch in the capacitors. Older Tek scopes had the capacitors as trimmer caps, while in these ceramic hybrids the resistors get adjusted during the manufacturing process.
I guess you'll have to remove the ceramic hybrid from the PCB to gain access to the capacitors, either they are underneath the relays, or on the other side of the ceramic.
don't you think the capacitors are also integrated inside the ceramic pcb? I mean like they are eatched into the circuit board?I've never taken a look into the shielded attenuators of these THS scopes myself, so I just was guessing. One can see a few capacitors soldered to the ceramic, especially the big one for AC coupling as I suppose. I've replaced the relays in my TDS580 attenuators (found some pictures here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tektronix-tds520b-attenuator-swap/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tektronix-tds520b-attenuator-swap/) ), here one clearly can see the large metallized areas - these are the capacitors for their attenuators, see the laser trimming. I don't know wether the THS ceramics are made the same way or they've soldered discrete capacitors. For sure, one can see laser trimmed resistors there (Edit: looked again at the high res picture, looks like a trimming scheme applied to whatever is hidden under the blue coating, can't tell if it's a capacitor or resistor).
if they are underneath the attenuator, there is hope !
also, can it be due to the relay as @Jim Narem suggests? Although i cannot figure out how the relay can cause imbalance capacitance
You know we have the schematics, don't you?
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tektronix-ths700-tekscope-component-level-information-package-and-schematic/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tektronix-ths700-tekscope-component-level-information-package-and-schematic/)
@capt bullshot: I also believe the caps are etched into the ceramic. I highly doubt there is anything underneath that board.
SPC passes on my scope with no problem and DC is perfectly fine on all vertical ranges. Only when I apply a square wave with long enough period I can see on those two ranges the pulses have a exponential riding on top of them with overshoot and then settling down to the correct value.
Scope calibration didnt help either as most of the process only uses DC voltages.
I wonder what might have happened to a ceramic etched capacitor to go bad?
I've got TEK THS720 without A. I wonder whether by a simple (nor not so simple) FW change it can be converted to THS720A. By looking at the main board is seems like the main components are the same (even down to the ID resistors in question). Have anyone done anything like this?
Are you using the original TEK charger?
I had the same issue, when I used a cheap switch-mode charger and no battery in the scope.
The original TEK charge is a heavy linear charger in good quality and no leakage.
This version of wavestar will work with the THS series?
https://www.tek.com/oscilloscope/tds510a-software/wavestar-oscilloscopes (https://www.tek.com/oscilloscope/tds510a-software/wavestar-oscilloscopes)
This version of wavestar will work with the THS series?
https://www.tek.com/oscilloscope/tds510a-software/wavestar-oscilloscopes (https://www.tek.com/oscilloscope/tds510a-software/wavestar-oscilloscopes)
as the THS-Series is not listed I thnk it will not work with the SW
It looks like I need to change the polarizers of my LCD display.
I tried searching but I do not know what kind of polarizer to get- transmissive or reflective or transflective. Are the polarizers used in mobile phone displays different from the scope's LCD? Could someone please link to suitable polarizers from ebay / AliExpress? Thank you!
can you explain how you did the update exactly? Removed the NVRAM and reprogrammed it or used a new chip?
With the 1.16 firmware from yaromka ?
With the 1.16 firmware from yaromka ?
Yes
The mod and the update are gone perfectly and also after running the offset compensation just one time after the update the dc issue wanishes completly. No recal.
The mod and the update are gone perfectly and also after running the offset compensation just one time after the update the dc issue wanishes completly. No recal.
Ciao Giacomo,
so you did not perform a full calibration after the upgrade? Are you sure it is still in spec?
AFAIK the cal parameters are stored in the AM29F080, and you should have the calibration parameters of yaromka in your unit...
Can you please share 1.14 firmware?
Thanks
The mod and the update are gone perfectly and also after running the offset compensation just one time after the update the dc issue wanishes completly. No recal.
Ciao Giacomo,
so you did not perform a full calibration after the upgrade? Are you sure it is still in spec?
AFAIK the cal parameters are stored in the AM29F080, and you should have the calibration parameters of yaromka in your unit...
I can't say that, for now i only tried the signal for the probe compensation. I was interested to elinate the dc issue and i reported that once it has been disappear. So i screwed up the calibration in my unit without thinking about..
By the way when i turned on the scope after the upgrade to the 1.16 the dc issue was still present as before, but this time the signal path compensation has worked, once and for all it seems, before it did not correct the problem.Can you please share 1.14 firmware?
Thanks
Why you would the 1.14 when you can get the 1.16 ? I had the 1.11 if you was asking to me
Why you would the 1.14 when you can get the 1.16 ? I had the 1.11 if you was asking to me
Thanks, it will be interesting to have more dumps to knob where is calibration data
My backlight is very dimmed, I believe the lamp is showing its age. Does anyone have replaced the lamp or added a LED upgrade?
Yeah !At 260 Euro in good condition it is still a good scope to have, if you need a portable scope.
What a great post about this scope !
I have a question about this scope: I could buy one for about 260€, seeing it's a quite "old" design (from the 90's ?) is it worth to get it at this price ? They sell it on "good conditions" with very little use... but of course batteries will be maybe out of order ... and I see they have quite a problem with expensive replacement.
The use will be mainly for audio, don't really need 100MHz but a handled scope is functional for me becouse I may have to repair "in situ" some times.
I have an Hantek DSO8060 but I don't think it's a good scope, the screem is not very accurate and I have problems with after just a few month of use...
Thanks for your help.
The major values of this scope are portable and fully isolated at each channel that are suitable for HV works.
Hello all
I've bought THS730 version of the scope and after successful calibration it shows a ripple about 40mV peak-to-peak and the DC offset flows with time between -20..+20mV
Is any way to improve it ?
Thank you
I will test with mine, can you please upolado some photos, whic is noise frequency?
I will test with mine, can you please upolado some photos, whic is noise frequency?
Hello
These are the photos without and with probe
FV:v1.14
Thanx for reply
Do you have more noise without probe?
Do you have more noise without probe?
Quote from: harrimansat link=topic=35004.msg3419836#msg3419836
Do you have more noise without probe?
a little bit more without probe and it has a kind of periodic type, with probe it become random. What is strange, like on the second foto, I don't see on the wave form measured peak-to-peak value of 23mV (often it's 40mV)
Can you please make the same test in AC, and GND, and then shorted?
Mine has the same behaviour:Thank you harrimansat
If scope don´t meassure nothing with shorted inputs, it usually means it's ok.
Think that this scope has isolated gnd and it has more noise when then are not connected
no, if you connect low, medium generator or resistor noise goes away. In high impeance meassurements noise is normal. For that with the probe you have less noise
Regards!
hello I have read this post and I must say that it is very interesting.
i wanted to make a request if someone can help me. i have a ths710a. i wanted to buy a P5102 HV probe but looking for it i saw that they have very high prices even if used. since it is passive I thought I would try to do it at home. does anyone of you know how the resistances of the divider 1/10 inside are configured?
from the datasheet it is understood that the total resistance is 5Mohm but it is not clear if there is a resistive part on the ground terminal.
thank you very much to those who can help me.
Greetings
Which is tHe max working voltage between BNC GND, 30V?
You are right :-+ i was supposed to fully RTFM first
You can still use other types of probes unless you have a specific requirement
We know that the input resistance of the scope is 1M, the probe is a 10:1 divider, assuming that we are measuring at DC it might be 9M distributed equaly between the two sides like 4.5M resistors plus another 10M resistor from the tip of the probe to ground, this would be a possible configuration in order that the scope plus the probe attached will be seen from the circuit like a 5M resistor at DC
Similar for the capacitance, the capacitance seen from the load should be 11.2pF, the result of the parallel between a capacitance from the tip to ground and the series capacitance of the scope plus another capacitance in order to form a 10:1 divider. The capacitance of the scope is 25pF, we need a 9x larger reactance, hence a 9x smaller capacitance, 2.8pF, 1.4pf in parallel with each 4.5M resistor. 11.2pF minus 2.8pF in series with 25pF = 8.7pF (adjustable) across the 10M resistor
It might be more appropriate to open another topic about probes.
But the only software i managed to work is the wintek32, i tried to use tekvisa and waveform lab demo, both didn't work =/ any idea?
Two years ago, I wrote a software for my THS720P for grabbing the image from the scope and copy it to the clipboard, save it to a BMP file or print it.
Great! I tested your software on a Win10 Home (build 20H2) laptop with a FTDI-based USB-to-RS232 adapter and the original serial cable that came with my THS720. Works perfect.
Thanks a lot! Any plans to include some form of DMM logging for the THS-family?
Greetings,
Rainer
I have checked the binary transfer mode, there is the same result as for the ascii mode. I don't know what I should do?
This has to be a bug from the scope...
Maybe averaging is a good idea. I tried it, see the result:
The tool is ideally suited for my purposes, logging data like charging/discharging curves of batteries. One little thing that comes to mind is a button to turn off the backlight during very long logging sessions (maybe via the POWER:BACKlight command?), and, if you are extremely bored, a way to set amplitude and time remotely.
Here the latest logging of a car battery being charged by an intelligent charger:
(Attachment Link)
The two voltage drops to 12.5V are load tests, then you can see the charger starting with 3.8A, then at 13.9V dropping to 3A, then at 14.25V dropping to 800mA, and at 14.52V switching to trickle charge/standby.
Again, thank you for a well-made and useful tool.
Greetings,
Rainer
Thanks for the feedback, so you are happy with my tool, or do you have ideas for improvements?
Update the first post with mrprecision good work.
I still have on my list the FW upgrade without losing the cal data.
One day it will happen.
hello mr precision, if you can add this option to read all mesured ?, i need this option because i using this oscilloscope for analyze frame of Protocol I2C/SPI/RS232/CANbus/JTAG please see the Picture canbus message of edc16c34 to my pic18f4580 this Picture is no full in ".bmp" files ,and see picture 2 of I2Cbus it full
thank to you for this soft and sorry for my bad enlish
Quotehello mr precision, if you can add this option to read all mesured ?, i need this option because i using this oscilloscope for analyze frame of Protocol I2C/SPI/RS232/CANbus/JTAG please see the Picture canbus message of edc16c34 to my pic18f4580 this Picture is no full in ".bmp" files ,and see picture 2 of I2Cbus it full
thank to you for this soft and sorry for my bad enlish
I actual don't understand the problem. I only can read you what is shown in the display. Can someone help me to understand the problem?
Waveform Commands
Waveform commands let you transfer waveform data points to and
from the instrument. Waveform data points are a collection of values
that define a waveform. One data value usually represents one data
point in the waveform record. When working with enveloped
waveforms, each data value is either the min or max of a max/min
pair. Before you can transfer waveform data, you must specify the
data format, record length, and waveform locations.
and see (2.30) in page 60Waveform Data/Record Lengths. You can transfer multiple points for
each waveform record. You can transfer a portion of the waveform or
you can transfer the entire record. The DATa:STARt and DATa:STOP
commands let you specify the first and last data points of the
waveform record.When transferring data into the instrument you must specify the
location of the first data point within the waveform record. For
example, when DATa:STARt is set to 1, data points will be stored
starting with the first point in the record, and when DATa:STARt is
set to 500, data will be stored starting at the 500th point in the record.
DATa:STOP will be ignored when transferring data into the
instrument as the instrument will stop reading data when there is no
more data to read or when the record length has been reached.
When transferring data from the instrument you must specify the first
and last data points in the waveform record. Setting DATa:STARt
to 1 and DATa:STOP to 2500 always returns the entire waveform.
I think you are asking to pull the data from the scope in a format that would allow for decoding the various serial formats you mentioned. Please confirm. And be more specific about the format you need the scope output in if not the native format Tek used..
interfaceWrite("DATA:ENCDG ASCII");
interfaceWrite("DATA:WIDTH 2");
interfaceWrite("DATA:START 1");
interfaceWrite("DATA:STOP 2500");
interfaceWrite("CURVE?");
So I have checked it in detail.
Here are the screens, one with all samples and one with the MAG function (zoom):
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)
And here are exported raw data:
(Attachment Link)
So for me everything is fine.
interfaceWrite("DATA:START 1");
the second timeinterfaceWrite("DATA:START 2500");
the third timeinterfaceWrite("DATA:START 5000");
So I have checked it in detail.
Here are the screens, one with all samples and one with the MAG function (zoom):
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)
And here are exported raw data:
(Attachment Link)
So for me everything is fine.
hello mr precision
try to read several times, with only the command "DATA: START " , no need to use the command "DATA:STOP" , you need the "DATA: START " only for read the data from instrument
for example the first timeCode: [Select]interfaceWrite("DATA:START 1");
the second timeCode: [Select]interfaceWrite("DATA:START 2500");
the third timeCode: [Select]interfaceWrite("DATA:START 5000");
change only the value of command "DATA: START" in your code and read several times
Hi!, what is the molex datasheet that does not match? what exactly does not match? I can help you look for it in my free time, but I would like to know that it does not match excactly, so that I can find it through sizing