Siglent SDS2000X Plus vs SDS2000X HD

[Electro Fan]

Does anyone here happen to have both of these, or has anyone used both?

I'm pretty sure the X HD is the way to fly but before I book the reservation I thought I'd check to see if anyone thinks there are some good reasons to go with X Plus.  Either way I'd go with the big bundle, primarily with an interest in the 16 digital channel capability.

I've seen this video:
https://youtu.be/tsYzZ_vCalo

Lots of back and forth discussion in the forums here regarding whether this was accurately representative of the 16 channel capabilities for both scopes but I have yet to see a definitive resolution.  If someone could put the performance discrepancy to rest with something more than "oh, you don't really need the performance shown by the Plus because the HD is good enough", that would especially interesting to hear.  It's kinda hard to get excited by a next gen scope that performs a key function slower than the predecessor model. 

Having said that, the 16 digital channel performance is one consideration but I'm interested in any/all strong reasons to go with either the Plus or the HD.  I'm pretty sure most votes are going to go for the HD so any good reasons to go with the Plus would be good to hear too.

Thanks for any info/advice.

EF

[Martin72]

I could talk about the two models now, as I have owned both - but why are you opening a new thread?

[Electro Fan]

I could talk about the two models now, as I have owned both - but why are you opening a new thread?

Hi Martin,

Which thread would you recommend?  Thx, EF

- maybe one of these?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-hd-12bit-(published-for-chinese-domestic-market-only)/
- probably closest to what I am looking for

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1000x-hd-versus-sds2000x-hd/

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds3000x-hd-and-upgraded-sds1000x-hd/

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/math-problems-on-sds2k-(trying-to-display-bandwith)/

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-coming/

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds800x-hd-12-bit-dsos-coming/

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-review-demonstration-thread/

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/

edit - just needed to search better, maybe this is the preferred thread?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/is-the-sds2000x-hd-worth-the-upgrade-from-the-sds2000x-plus-or-rigol-dho1000/msg5203116/#msg5203116

[Martin72]

Hi,

I had exactly the last one in mind, but we can continue here because it's only about the differences between these two.
As I said, I had both models, the 2000Xplus for 2 years and the 2000X HD for just over 1.5 years.
Let's start with the exterior: the HD model looks more compact despite the same screen size.
On the other hand, it looks a little better finished (the aluminum handle... ), both inside and out.
And better rotary encoders.
Technical....
Fan control, so the scope was almost dead quiet.
I found the general performance to be "faster", with the exception of the Bodeplot, which is equally slow on both.
Despite the same screen resolution and size (and I bet it's the same type), the display on the HD is generally sharper/finer, which I really liked.
You can tell that the hardware of the HD has more "power" by the fact that ERES and Average can be found in the Acquisition menu (but also as a math function).
So I didn't have to "sacrifice" a math channel for it (which later became somewhat obsolete, as there were 4 instead of 2 channels after the first update).
I'm pretty sure that there will also be features in the future that can only be realized on the 2000X HD.
All in all, I felt that the extra expense for the HD model made sense - and I paid the old price for the 100Mhz.
Now you can get the biggest model (350Mhz) for a little less...
I think it makes sense to switch from the 2000Xplus to the HD, especially after the price drops of the entire 2000X HD series.
I find it less sensible to switch from the 2000Xplus to the 1000X HD, which is quite similar in price.

[dexar]

Why do you think it is less sensible to switch from the 2000Xplus to the 1000X HD?

Is it because of the lower samplerate and max bandwidth?

[Martin72]

Yes and yes.
In addition, if you had bought the logic probes, they would be obsolete because they do not fit the 1000X HD.
Because you have to keep this in mind, logic analyzer and function generator, the hardware is integrated in the 2000xplus, while you have to buy hardware and software for the 1000X HD.
On the other hand, there is the 12-bit resolution.
Is that enough to switch from the 2000X plus to the 1000X HD?
In the end, everyone has to answer the question for themselves.
If you don't have a 2000X yet and are faced with the choice of 2000X plus or 1000X HD, it may look a little different.

[tautech]

If you don't have a 2000X yet and are faced with the choice of 2000X plus or 1000X HD, it may look a little different.

Only when you have not seen the obvious.

SDS2000X Plus option bundle is available until mid year.
SDS2000X Plus has inbuilt AWG HW.....permanent licensing with option bundle.
Much more memory and better sampling rate with all channels active.
User definable trace colors.
Zone triggers.
More decodes.....permanent licensing with option bundle.

[Electro Fan]

Thanks for the replies.

The 1000X HD looks good but I'm somewhat nudged toward the 2000X HD with the zone trigger - but maybe that's more a nice to have than super useful?  I'm open to thoughts on the zone trigger, and pretty much everything about this neighborhood of the Siglent scopes.

I'm still trying to get a definitive answer on whether the 2000X Plus really outperforms the 2000X HD on the digital channels, but maybe there is no one who knows for sure?  It would be nice to know...

So far I'm pretty strongly leaning toward the 2000X HD although it seems that there is popular opinion among users here that the 2000X HD might be going away sooner than later; not sure why, but it seems like a consensus.  Every oscilloscope eventually gets retired but the 2000X HD is pretty new and it would be unfortunate if it not only left the market for new sales but if it ran out of firmware improvement support - especially since it is relatively new (almost every product takes a while to surface bugs and low hanging fruit opportunities for firmware improvements).

It looks like there have been 11 firmware revisions for the 2000X Plus since it was introduced and only 2 for the 2000X HD - but maybe the 2000X Plus and HD will both be retired together?

tautech, please tell us again what your crystal ball sees regarding the lifetime of firmware releases for the 2000X HD. 

Thanks

[KungFuJosh]

Only the 100MHz version of the 2000X HD is going away. And only because they want a bigger price gap between scope series. It's kind of silly, but it is what it is.

I have the Plus, and if I had a choice between anything under $3000, I'd buy the 2000X HD with the promo bundle that costs less than the probes that come with it.

[tautech]

tautech, please tell us again what your crystal ball sees regarding the lifetime of firmware releases for the 2000X HD. 

AFAIK the model SDS2104X HD only is to be removed from the range.
SDS2000X Plus (8bit & 10bit mode) should remain as it is a good performer for the $.

For the very observant, there is online Siglent imagery of what appears to be SDS2000X HD in dark clothes. 
This makes perfect sense IMHO to have all the 12bit models wearing the same color.....I know nothing more, nothing.

[hpw]

SDS2000X Plus (8bit & 10bit mode) should remain as it is a good performer for the $.

And the SDS2000X Plus tuning is simple as it gets.

The 10 bits helps a lot but BW is limited about 100Mhz.

Just compare the ENOB of the new HD series so the question rises about the real noise floor gain compared to the SDS2000X Plus against the new HD models is IMHO limited and ROI in question.

In addition a upcoming FW for the SDS2000X Plus is also delayed or in question . As they liked to fix the HD bugs first  .

[tautech]

SDS2000X Plus (8bit & 10bit mode) should remain as it is a good performer for the $.

And the SDS2000X Plus tuning is simple as it gets.

No comprende.

The 10 bits helps a lot but BW is limited about 100Mhz.

Of course, it's accomplished via oversampling and without a 10bit 100 MHz BW limit aliasing could result.

Your point please ?

[hpw]

SDS2000X Plus (8bit & 10bit mode) should remain as it is a good performer for the $.

And the SDS2000X Plus tuning is simple as it gets.

No comprende.

The 10 bits helps a lot but BW is limited about 100Mhz.

Of course, it's accomplished via oversampling and without a 10bit 100 MHz BW limit aliasing could result.

Your point please ?

@No comprende. Mira, the forum, IMHO, should be divided in three as: Rubios/Rubias & Hacker & Professional Gear 

Your point please : Why should I draw good money in more pitta. FW fixing for a long waitings, getting a little as I currently have. As ROI in question.

hp




 

[KungFuJosh]

In addition a upcoming FW for the SDS2000X Plus is also delayed or in question . As they liked to fix the HD bugs first  .

It's called beta testing. They test things thoroughly before release. That's what we call a good thing.

[Performa01]

and yes this feature spec is not a big deal

just trying to understand the “why” and if there is any notable implication for the product (especially with respect to the support road map) beyond this one feature spec

it would be nice if someone from Siglent could explain it

Same, I'd like to know why. I can make some guesses, but there's no point in guessing. I don't think there's any real concern for the support roadmap for any of these for at least a few years.

Many thanks for not making wild guesses 😉

The hardware accelerated mask test has always been a key feature of Siglent DSOs, at least starting with the SDS2000 (with V2 firmware) in 2015. I haven’t ever used any older Siglent DSO, so I can’t say anything about these.

There are design decisions, often based on the requirements of professional customers. A hardware accelerated mask test is extremely nice to have when you need it, but once it is reasonably fast, it really doesn’t make that much of a difference if you can have 10k or 15k tests per second. The reason why higher-class instruments can have different (and sometimes seemingly inferior) specs is that they are a newer development, which uses a more complex peak-to-peak deviation comparison between signal and tolerance mask, which probably has some advantages, opens some opportunities for future development, and is even faster overall, but quite obviously cannot support Dots display mode, hence also not very high peak test rates.

The SDS2000X HD does not support Dots display mode during mask testing. In Vector display mode, the SDS2000X plus manages a maximum of 19.75 k per second. That’s not much different from the ~14 k/s of the SDS2000X HD.

We should get the complete picture: There are only two time-base settings, where the SDS2000X plus in Dots display mode is significantly (>1.5 times) faster than the SDS2000X HD in Vector display mode. On the other hand, the SDS2000X HD in Vector display mode is faster than the SDS2000X plus in Dots display mode, for all the time bases faster than 5 ns/div and slower than 1 µs/div.

That leaves us with only 50 ns/div and 100 ns/div in Dots display mode for the SDS2000X plus, which are significantly faster. How relevant is this small advantage compared to the better and more balanced overall mask-test performance of the SDS2000X HD?

Attached is the measurement results table for SDS2354X plus in Vector and Dots display mode and the SDS2504X HD.

[hpw]

In addition a upcoming FW for the SDS2000X Plus is also delayed or in question . As they liked to fix the HD bugs first  .

It's called beta testing. They test things thoroughly before release. That's what we call a good thing.

All professional tests even beta or alpha or any others have a protocol with a given dead line.  And Siglent and others gets as from the give regions  So any purchases to consider about.

[KungFuJosh]

In addition a upcoming FW for the SDS2000X Plus is also delayed or in question . As they liked to fix the HD bugs first  .

It's called beta testing. They test things thoroughly before release. That's what we call a good thing.

All professional tests even beta or alpha or any others have a protocol with a given dead line.  And Siglent and others gets as from the give regions  So any purchases to consider about.

Deadlines are meaningless. They set their own (if any) and they can run through as many beta versions as they want. I'd rather have fewer bugs than faster releases based on arbitrary nonsense. Besides, they already released the new firmware for the plus. 😉

[Electro Fan]

Just wanted to ask if the the 2000X HD will decode on both the analog and digital channels in binary (1s and 0s, not just Hex or ASCII), both below the waveform and in the table view (for UART, I2C, SPI, etc.)?  Thanks

The manual indicates this is supported but it's less than 100% clear.

What I'm hoping it does is decode in Hex, binary, ASCII, and decimal formats for each protocol.  Can anyone confirm this?  Thx

I saw this (maybe it's old?); I'm wondering what this is about?
https://siglentna.com/operating-tip/oscilloscope-binary-data-format/?pdf=20056

[tautech]

Just wanted to ask if the the 2000X HD will decode on both the analog and digital channels in binary (1s and 0s, not just Hex or ASCII), both below the waveform and in the table view (for UART, I2C, SPI, etc.)?  Thanks

The manual indicates this is supported but it's less than 100% clear.

What I'm hoping it does is decode in Hex, binary, ASCII, and decimal formats for each protocol.  Can anyone confirm this?  Thx

I saw this (maybe it's old?); I'm wondering what this is about?
https://siglentna.com/operating-tip/oscilloscope-binary-data-format/?pdf=20056

Yep very old.

FYI all recent models can save in the more compact BIN format where preinstalled for download from the scope is the BIN to CSV file convertor. It is also accessible from the webserver where there is a special virtual button to send it through to your PC's download folder.
You install this tiny app on a PC and run it to convert a BIN file to CSV.

[Electro Fan]

Just wanted to ask if the the 2000X HD will decode on both the analog and digital channels in binary (1s and 0s, not just Hex or ASCII), both below the waveform and in the table view (for UART, I2C, SPI, etc.)?  Thanks

The manual indicates this is supported but it's less than 100% clear.

What I'm hoping it does is decode in Hex, binary, ASCII, and decimal formats for each protocol.  Can anyone confirm this?  Thx

I saw this (maybe it's old?); I'm wondering what this is about?
https://siglentna.com/operating-tip/oscilloscope-binary-data-format/?pdf=20056

Yep very old.

FYI all recent models can save in the more compact BIN format where preinstalled for download from the scope is the BIN to CSV file convertor. It is also accessible from the webserver where there is a special virtual button to send it through to your PC's download folder.
You install this tiny app on a PC and run it to convert a BIN file to CSV.

Thanks

And just to confirm this is all doable…

“The 2000X HD will decode on both the analog and digital channels in binary (1s and 0s, not just Hex or ASCII), both below the waveform and in the table view (for UART, I2C, SPI, etc.)?”

[tautech]

And just to confirm this is all doable…

“The 2000X HD will decode on both the analog and digital channels in binary (1s and 0s, not just Hex or ASCII), both below the waveform and in the table view (for UART, I2C, SPI, etc.)?”

I think so but haven't got one to check for sure......
Others will advise.

[Performa01]

Just wanted to ask if the the 2000X HD will decode on both the analog and digital channels in binary (1s and 0s, not just Hex or ASCII), both below the waveform and in the table view (for UART, I2C, SPI, etc.)?  Thanks

Yes, it does hex, binary, decimal and ASCII for all protocols and it makes no difference whether analog and digital input channels are used.

[blurpy]

Just wanted to ask if the the 2000X HD will decode on both the analog and digital channels in binary (1s and 0s, not just Hex or ASCII), both below the waveform and in the table view (for UART, I2C, SPI, etc.)?  Thanks

Yes, it does hex, binary, decimal and ASCII for all protocols and it makes no difference whether analog and digital input channels are used.

Note that it won't decode parallel signals in ASCII, only serial.
See this discussion: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-scope-demoboard-from-batronix/msg5175123/#msg5175123