EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: ResistorRob on May 09, 2019, 02:54:47 am
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Does anyone have any information about the Tektronix scope(s) coming out June 4th? They claim to be the future of scopes, have a touchscreen and designed from using the feedback of interviewing 100s of scope users. Please share any leaks of photos, prices, specs, etc...
UPDATE (confirmed):
MDO34 3-BW-100 - 3-SERIES MIXED DOMAIN OSCILLOSCOPE - $4,600.00
MDO34 3-BW-200 - 3-SERIES MIXED DOMAIN OSCILLOSCOPE - $5,150.00
MDO34 3-BW-350 - 3-SERIES MIXED DOMAIN OSCILLOSCOPE - $9,600.00
MDO34 3-BW-500 - 3-SERIES MIXED DOMAIN OSCILLOSCOPE - $12,900.00
MDO34 3-BW-1000 - 3-SERIES MIXED DOMAIN OSCILLOSCOPE - $16,000.00
MDO34 3-BW-1000-DDU-DB-DEMO - DEMO - 3-SERIES MIXED DOMAIN OSCILLOSCOPE - $16,850.00
UPDATE (speculation):
MSO46 4-BW-1500 - Oscilloscope 6 channels 1.5GHZ
MSO46 4-BW-1000 - Oscilloscope 6 channels 1.0GHZ
MSO46 4-BW-500 - Oscilloscope 6 channels 500MHZ
MSO46 4-BW-350 - Oscilloscope 6 channels 350MHZ
MSO46 4-BW-200 - Oscilloscope 6 channels 200MHZ
MSO44 4-BW-1500 - Oscilloscope 4 channels 1.5GHZ
MSO44 4-BW-1000 - Oscilloscope 4 channels 1.0GHZ
MSO44 4-BW-500 - Oscilloscope 4 channels 500MHZ
MSO44 4-BW-350 - Oscilloscope 4 channels 350MHZ
MSO44 4-BW-200 - Oscilloscope 4 channels 200MHZ
(https://i.postimg.cc/SN6PQVCB/scope-teaser-banner-550w.png)
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They only asked 100 people? If that number is accurate, this will be fun to watch.
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They only asked 100 people? If that number is accurate, this will be fun to watch.
Well, that would be 100 more people than they asked when they designed their last generation of oscilloscopes :-DD
I took a second look, and I misquoted them. Correction: 100s (hundreds)
I was a huge fan of Tektronix when they had the 2200 series. I even had a giant poster of one on my bedroom wall. Yes I'm a nerd!
I was so sad of the state of their offerings after the year 2000. They seem to be really trying to make some good products now with the release of the 5 series and now this. Before they were just selling overpriced junk profiting off their name. I'm not a hater. I rooting for them to reestablish credibility with their brand.
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Does anyone have any information about the Tektronix scope(s) coming out June 4th? They claim to be the future of scopes, and appear to be touchscreen and designed from the feedback of interviewing 100 scope users.
LOL, who?
They could have asked on, I don't know, maybe the leading test equipment user forum on the internet perhaps, just say'n...
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So they have the new 5 and 6 series, so obviously it's going to be lower end. Maybe the 3 or 4 series?
Will it be a Mixed Domain MDO replacement? or maybe the 2000 series?
They have to drop something, I can't see them slotting in another series in there among the existing ones.
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I was a huge fan of Tektronix when they had the 2200 series. I even had a giant poster of one on my bedroom wall. Yes I'm a nerd!
I was so sad of the state of their offerings after the year 2000. They seem to be really trying to make some good products now with the release of the 5 series and now this. Before they were just selling overpriced junk profiting off their name. I'm not a hater. I rooting for them to reestablish credibility with their brand.
I'm still rockin' my free TDS210 (with an added math module), a fully restored 2235 and I have a 212 mini scope to restore for fun.
Between the TDS210 and the 2235, I'm having trouble justifying a new Rigol etc. I only occasionally bump against the limits of the TSD210. I should start doing some more ambitious projects to justify a scope upgrade. :D
So they have the new 5 and 6 series, so obviously it's going to be lower end. Maybe the 3 or 4 series?
Will it be a Mixed Domain MDO replacement? or maybe the 2000 series?
They have to drop something, I can't see them slotting in another series in there among the existing ones.
Could be something to compete with the Siglent/Rigol/Keysight 1000 series stuff maybe?
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I'm having enough fun as it is with my first 7000 series mainframe (7904A). It was probably cheaper too... :-DD
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No idea what it is, but I hope I win. :-BROKE
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Does anyone have any information about the Tektronix scope(s) coming out June 4th? They claim to be the future of scopes, and appear to be touchscreen and designed from the feedback of interviewing 100 scope users.
LOL, who?
They could have asked on, I don't know, maybe the leading test equipment user forum on the internet perhaps, just say'n...
They could send some samples to a few select YouTubers that review products from time to time, eh Dave😜
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Could be something to compete with the Siglent/Rigol/Keysight 1000 series stuff maybe?
I'd be a bit surprised if it's a bottom end scope.
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They could send some samples to a few select YouTubers that review products from time to time, eh Dave😜
Only the ones that don't question their marketing choices ;D
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(https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/60034392_361367031176368_5638962914829271040_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ht=scontent-syd2-1.xx&oh=38b2e46dcf14381ddc4000249a8d8f8e&oe=5D6216B3)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG7y32GTZks (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG7y32GTZks)
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Does anyone have any information about the Tektronix scope(s) coming out June 4th? They claim to be the future of scopes, and appear to be touchscreen and designed from the feedback of interviewing 100 scope users.
LOL, who?
They could have asked on, I don't know, maybe the leading test equipment user forum on the internet perhaps, just say'n...
Maybe they interviewed the hundreds seven active users on the Element 14 forum :-DD
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It's 6 channel, possibly 12 bit converter, certainly not low end.
(https://i.imgur.com/Mtpps0z.jpg)
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Looks like it won't fit under my shelving
(https://www.entestinc.com/media/wysiwyg/imgs/Tektronix/Tek-Future-of-scopes-promotion_Image.jpg)
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Dave, from that screenshot it looks like 8 channels. They have 8 channels listed on the color palette choices.
??? What do you think
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Dave, from that screenshot it looks like 8 channels. They have 8 channels listed on the color palette choices.
Oh, I just saw the channel numbers down the bottom.
So it's 6 or 8 channels, yet they say "for any budget", so it's got to be less than the 5 Series.
My concern is that like the 5 Series, their own marketing is "You said you wanted more, so we delivered more", in that they just add more stuff without potentially taking into account what a lot of user want which is "more value for money", and not just "more features".
The MSO2000 series is currently 20% off:
https://www.entestinc.com/news/basic-scope-promotion-tektronix.html (https://www.entestinc.com/news/basic-scope-promotion-tektronix.html)
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Well that wasn't hard to find, as predicted it's called the 4 Series scope:
https://www.tek.com/oscilloscope/4-series-mso-mixed-signal-oscilloscope (https://www.tek.com/oscilloscope/4-series-mso-mixed-signal-oscilloscope)
Not hard to find when you just take the 5 series URL and then decrement the number and 1/2/3 give 404's and 4 gives a login ;D
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Looks like it won't fit under my shelving
I guess I will have to take one for the team, my shelving is adjustable, I suppose if I really have to review one I could make that sacrifice.
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Why does the promo video remind me of this, I mean it even had a PC logic board in it...
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I was hoping for 7k series upgrade.
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At every fair i've been on since the launch of the 5 series i've been bitching that they need to throw away everything they have -starting from the TPS- and replace them with a new scope using ONE or TWO of their new asics.
One asic has 4 ADCs inside and exposes 4 ADC inputs. For god's sake get a clue and do what every single competitor is doing, accessible scopes for the engineers of the future and small businesses
every time i was told to wait and see in the next six month *wink wink*
let's see.
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At every fair i've been on since the launch of the 5 series i've been bitching that they need to throw away everything they have -starting from the TPS- and replace them with a new scope using ONE or TWO of their new asics.
One asic has 4 ADCs inside and exposes 4 ADC inputs. For god's sake get a clue and do what every single competitor is doing, accessible scopes for the engineers of the future and small businesses
every time i was told to wait and see in the next six month *wink wink*
let's see.
Yeah, a stripped down single ASIC smaller fixed 4 channel job with killer free protocol decoding and basic digital logic would do the trick.
I'd be surprised if the lowest end model 4 Series is under $2k
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There seem to be massive clearance on the MDO4k
https://www.sjelectronics.co.uk/tektronix-encore-mdo4k-promotion (https://www.sjelectronics.co.uk/tektronix-encore-mdo4k-promotion)
50-60% off!
The sale price for the MDO4104C is LESS than they offered me as Trade-up cost for my MDO4054-6 to a MDO4104C-6....
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There seem to be massive clearance on the MDO4k
https://www.sjelectronics.co.uk/tektronix-encore-mdo4k-promotion (https://www.sjelectronics.co.uk/tektronix-encore-mdo4k-promotion)
50-60% off!
Refurbished only?
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yes but those prices for the UK are probably the lowest I have ever seen. UK sale prices vs US prices is about US * 1.5 normally. (Currency and VAT / Duties taken into account)
It is cheaper than ANY MDO4k C series I've seen previously listed on eBay UK 2nd hand.
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4 series for a release on the 4th, it seems like they are taking a note out of the computer marketing handbook.
Also from the details for the competition signup,
THE GRAND PRIZE consist of a Tektronix oscilloscope (ARV US $35,370)
THE FIRST PRIZE consist of a Tektronix oscilloscope (ARV US $23,000)
They imply that these are two of the new scope series, so fully optioned and maybe missing a couple of channels for the second one?
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4 series for a release on the 4th, it seems like they are taking a note out of the computer marketing handbook.
Except they don't realise they are selling to engineers who don't give a toss about such things.
THE GRAND PRIZE consist of a Tektronix oscilloscope (ARV US $35,370)
THE FIRST PRIZE consist of a Tektronix oscilloscope (ARV US $23,000)
They imply that these are two of the new scope series, so fully optioned and maybe missing a couple of channels for the second one?
If so that's insane, more than the 5 series. Can't be right.
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.... and designed from the feedback of interviewing 100 scope users.
They only asked 100 people? If that number is accurate, this will be fun to watch.
I think it's hundreds:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tektronix-new-scope-june-4th!/?action=dlattach;attach=730434;image)
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I think it's hundreds:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tektronix-new-scope-june-4th!/?action=dlattach;attach=730434;image)
Who let the extra apostrophe's out?
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4 series for a release on the 4th, it seems like they are taking a note out of the computer marketing handbook.
Except they don't realise they are selling to engineers who don't give a toss about such things.
no, they are selling to sales department drones and uni lab thechies >:D
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Looks like it won't fit under my shelving
(https://www.entestinc.com/media/wysiwyg/imgs/Tektronix/Tek-Future-of-scopes-promotion_Image.jpg)
Looks good to me though. And if it has 8 channels the prices don't look so bad.
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4 series for a release on the 4th, it seems like they are taking a note out of the computer marketing handbook.
Except they don't realise they are selling to engineers who don't give a toss about such things.
The engineers do not but the person who authorizes the purchase does.
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.... and designed from the feedback of interviewing 100 scope users.
They only asked 100 people? If that number is accurate, this will be fun to watch.
I think it's hundreds
I already clarified the typo in the very next post after Terra's as a reply to his, which you quoted. If you would have scrolled another inch you would have seen it. Or you seen it, and are just bored so decided to troll me. Either way I can't believe you took time out of your day to point out word missing an "s" :palm:
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I just want a 100 MHz, 4 Channel, 8+ Logic, Touchscreen (not dim, *cough* Rigol), Standard Decoding Included in a sexy box (something like the Rhode & Schwartz RTB series or the Tek 5 series) for drumroll.... $1,700! without having to pay to unlock the MSO portion or have to buy any extra probes or hardware. Basically I want an all inclusive Siglent 1104x-e with a nice touchscreen and not having to buy everything as an option upgrade. Something like that would be a smash hit with small business, education market, serious hobbyists, and engineers without steep requirements. Just sucks that nobody can take a $700 scope and add a quality touchscreen for $1,000 more!!! I know this will never happen because it will cut into manufacturers high-profit scopes with big price tags.
One thing I have wanted in a scope is a selectable color palette. It appears Tek was listening when they got feedback for the 4 series. Hopefully this catches on with other scopes... more specifically in a scope I can afford :)
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One thing I have wanted in a scope is a selectable color palette. It appears Tek was listening when they got feedback for the 4 series. Hopefully this catches on with other scopes... more specifically in a scope I can afford :)
My Lecroy LT 574 has selectable colors for UI elements and waveform traces, and I think the bigger Wavepro 900 has, too. And both scope models are over 15 years old :)
I think later Lecroys have selectable colors, too. :)
Is that really such a rare feature? :-//
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.... and designed from the feedback of interviewing 100 scope users.
They only asked 100 people? If that number is accurate, this will be fun to watch.
I think it's hundreds:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tektronix-new-scope-june-4th!/?action=dlattach;attach=730434;image)
Doesn't matter how many, it's how you ask the question and what you do with the results that matters.
Just because a majority want some feature doesn't necessarily mean it's a good idea to implement.
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One thing I have wanted in a scope is a selectable color palette. It appears Tek was listening when they got feedback for the 4 series. Hopefully this catches on with other scopes... more specifically in a scope I can afford :)
I'd rather have the colours match the colour ring on the probe tip.
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4 series for a release on the 4th, it seems like they are taking a note out of the computer marketing handbook.
Except they don't realise they are selling to engineers who don't give a toss about such things.
The engineers do not but the person who authorizes the purchase does.
Sure, but the engineer chooses the model they want and then begs, that's how it work.
Get knocked back?, choose another model and beg again.
The engineer usually does the choosing.
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Series 4 vs Series 5 back.
I could 30 vents for the 4 vs 37 for the 5 series. So assumign they are the same width, the 4 series is going to be somewhat smaller than the 5 series, which is a good thing, the 5 series is enormous for an everyday use scope. Hence they used "everyday use" in the marketing. I think some of the feedback was that the 5 series was too big for everyday bench use.
(https://www.entestinc.com/media/wysiwyg/imgs/Tektronix/Tek-Future-of-scopes-promotion_Image.jpg) (https://www.tek.com/sites/default/files/2018-09/Tektronix-Elemental-MSO58-solid.jpg)
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And looks to be not as deep.
(https://www.entestinc.com/media/wysiwyg/imgs/Tektronix/Tek-Future-of-scopes-promotion_Image.jpg) (https://in.tek.com/sites/default/files/2018-09/Tektronix-Elemental-MSO58-013-solid.jpg)
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44% off all 2000 series in Japan:
(https://i.imgur.com/n9mHsyJ.png)
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(https://static.electronicsweekly.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/08095540/B1010D1D-FF2B-40CF-8090-E9C0E03C77A8.jpeg)
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And we have a price: $3,850
https://info.tek.com/www-new-gen-scope-june4-contest.html
Now whether that is base price, or optioned up we don't know :-//
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No way it's optioned up much if at all for 3850. It's still a Tek.
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No way it's optioned up much if at all for 3850. It's still a Tek.
The MSO54 starts at $13k, so I wouldn't be surprised if the Series 4 (MSO44?) starts at $3850, that would make sense from a market positioning point of view.
My guess would be double that price again for the 8CH job, and more for the bandwidth options of course.
The 5 series starts at 350MHz and goes to 2GHz.
I'm guessing the 4 series will start at maybe 100 or 200MHz and stop at 1GHz.
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And you have to assume they will continue with the new FlexChannel system?
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Here's a question: I don't know what Tek's fastest scope offering is these days, but we have Keysight and LeCroy offering 100 GHz+ 'scopes now (for huge prices too). When is an "only" 1 GHz DSO/MSO, that's got a decent complement of options and is actually worth buying, going to be affordable for mere mortals without requiring a second mortgage? Surely the engineering for a 1 GHz DSO is a solved problem that could be easily spun up in lower cost models now.
I'm not saying it should be a cheap as the usual Chinese OEMs, but I'd pay 3-5k for a 1 GHz digital scope from Tek/Keysight/whatever that's got a decent set of options included in that price. Otherwise, I'm perfectly happy buying older gear.
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44% off all 2000 series in Japan:
https://i.imgur.com/n9mHsyJ.png (https://i.imgur.com/n9mHsyJ.png)
I found one store that has them for 20% off on a cursory glance.
http://www.keisokuki-land.co.jp/index.php?main_page=page&id=230 (http://www.keisokuki-land.co.jp/index.php?main_page=page&id=230)
As is sometimes the way in Japan, it's likely that a number of sellers will offer a token discount and pocket the difference....
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I'm not saying it should be a cheap as the usual Chinese OEMs, but I'd pay 3-5k for a 1 GHz digital scope from Tek/Keysight/whatever that's got a decent set of options included in that price. Otherwise, I'm perfectly happy buying older gear.
A reasonable (relatively bug free) 1GHz scope from the Chinese brands will also set you back $8k to $15k.
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I already clarified the typo in the very next post after Terra's as a reply to his, which you quoted. If you would have scrolled another inch you would have seen it. Or you seen it, and are just bored so decided to troll me. Either way I can't believe you took time out of your day to point out word missing an "s" :palm:
You obviously have no idea of how I conduct myself here - but please don't roll the "troll" label out so quickly.
Here is the truth of the matter: I missed that line of your post.
Here is my response to my error: I apologise. You did, indeed, correct your mistake.
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.... and designed from the feedback of interviewing 100 scope users.
They only asked 100 people? If that number is accurate, this will be fun to watch.
I think it's hundreds:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tektronix-new-scope-june-4th!/?action=dlattach;attach=730434;image)
Doesn't matter how many, it's how you ask the question and what you do with the results that matters.
Just because a majority want some feature doesn't necessarily mean it's a good idea to implement.
...and also: which customers did they ask? If it's their own customers, then it's not far off a useless exercise: they've gone through an evaluation process to buy that product and will probably buy the same brand again. If it's their competitor's customers, they might find out why the customer didn't buy their product. But even so, feature set might not be the main reason: with so many scopes now offering great performance, it's often a commodity purchase based on the best deal available at the time. Yes, past customer preference such as UI familiarity might play a part but if you're being offered a 4000-class for $5k from vendor #1, you'll have a hard time justifying the $10k-$15k equivalent from anyone else.
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One thing I have wanted in a scope is a selectable color palette. It appears Tek was listening when they got feedback for the 4 series. Hopefully this catches on with other scopes... more specifically in a scope I can afford :)
My Lecroy LT 574 has selectable colors for UI elements and waveform traces, and I think the bigger Wavepro 900 has, too. And both scope models are over 15 years old :)
I think later Lecroys have selectable colors, too. :)
Is that really such a rare feature? :-//
The request for changing the colour of the traces comes from colour-blind engineers - most scopes are set with Red for Ch1 or Ch2 and Green for Ch3 or Ch4, these can't be determined. Yes, LeCroy had it some time ago, but I think it's still only on their higher-end PC-based scopes.
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The request for changing the colour of the traces comes from colour-blind engineers - most scopes are set with Red for Ch1 or Ch2 and Green for Ch3 or Ch4
All the 'scopes I use have Yellow, Cyan, Magenta on the first three channels - for obvious reasons, two RGB primary colors are brighter than one RGB primary color.
After that? Not much you can do. No 'scope can have eight easily distinguishable colors, not even for non-colorblind people.
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And we have a price: $3,850
https://info.tek.com/www-new-gen-scope-june4-contest.html
Now whether that is base price, or optioned up we don't know :-//
https://info.tek.com/rs/584-WPH-840/images/en-Tektronix-New-Scope-Sweepstakes-Rules_May-2019.pdf
The Sweepstake rules from the german Tek newsletter is showing a price of 36790USD for the grand price and 24729USD for the first price
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I'm not saying it should be a cheap as the usual Chinese OEMs, but I'd pay 3-5k for a 1 GHz digital scope from Tek/Keysight/whatever that's got a decent set of options included in that price. Otherwise, I'm perfectly happy buying older gear.
A reasonable (relatively bug free) 1GHz scope from the Chinese brands will also set you back $8k to $15k.
Sure...but I'm asking why is that so? Surely the engineering difficulties of a 1 GHz scope are pretty much solved by now. When companies have long since moved on to building ridiculously fast 50 GHz+ real time scopes at the top of their product lines, why is a lowly 1 GHz DSO so expensive still? It seems that the low end stuff that is approachable in price hasn't moved much beyond the bandwidths of old workhorses like the Tek 465/485 and the like, yet the 465/485 were NOT cheap in their day. And digital electronics in particular aren't getting any slower.
I'll give you a real-world hobbyist example: some of my interests are in FPGAs. I can clock designs at 100 MHz, and for small numbers of signals it's handy to be able to look at them on an oscilloscope for debugging. My 7904A CRO mainframe with a 7A19 amplifier and a P6201 FET probe is barely enough to make a good determination of clock integrity at 100 MHz, and that's already at least double the bandwidth of most entry level DSOs.
I guess I'm wondering ultimately, why in this world of VLSI design and such, we can't have an affordable high speed DSO that exceeds the capabilities of huge lab grade equipment of decades past.
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The problem is not in the hardware but the firmware of an oscilloscope has become very complicated due to all the features like decoding, measurements, statistics, etc. Nowadays oscilloscopes are more like complex data analysis systems than devices to show wiggly lines on a screen. I'm hearing good things about the Siglent SDS5000 series but that is not a cheap scope either and it seems Siglent is putting in some serious effort using beta testers.
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https://info.tek.com/rs/584-WPH-840/images/en-Tektronix-New-Scope-Sweepstakes-Rules_May-2019.pdf
The Sweepstake rules from the german Tek newsletter is showing a price of 36790USD for the grand price and 24729USD for the first price
Yeah its a bit odd that they'd be giving away a base model, but 24k for an optioned up model with a ton of probes/MSO probes would not be totally unreasonable. For the 5000 rigol scopes, highest end model = about 4x the price of the base model (6x in this case for tek).
Sure...but I'm asking why is that so? Surely the engineering difficulties of a 1 GHz scope are pretty much solved by now. When companies have long since moved on to building ridiculously fast 50 GHz+ real time scopes at the top of their product lines, why is a lowly 1 GHz DSO so expensive still? It seems that the low end stuff that is approachable in price hasn't moved much beyond the bandwidths of old workhorses like the Tek 465/485 and the like, yet the 465/485 were NOT cheap in their day. And digital electronics in particular aren't getting any slower.
I'll give you a real-world hobbyist example: some of my interests are in FPGAs. I can clock designs at 100 MHz, and for small numbers of signals it's handy to be able to look at them on an oscilloscope for debugging. My 7904A CRO mainframe with a 7A19 amplifier and a P6201 FET probe is barely enough to make a good determination of clock integrity at 100 MHz, and that's already at least double the bandwidth of most entry level DSOs.
I guess I'm wondering ultimately, why in this world of VLSI design and such, we can't have an affordable high speed DSO that exceeds the capabilities of huge lab grade equipment of decades past.
- They don't want to eat their market, and undercut themselves. Usually the 1GHz+ tech trickles down, and you want early adopters to pay more up front. Theoretically the Rigol MSO5000 is capable of 500MHz if not 1GHz+ in terms of hardware. Front end not sure. But no way in hell are they going to add those costs in, when they have higher end models to sell.
- Active probes, are you going to sell a 1GHz scope and throw some shitty 350MHz probes in the box? oh wait, tek MSO5000 costs $18k and includes 4 500MHz passive probes :D
- Probe detect/power connections, traditionally this separates lower from higher end oscilloscopes. As soon as some low end parts start adding it, everyone will consider it (which adds $$$).
- Increased cost of circuit board dielectric (possibly).
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make with the 465, it cost $1700 in 1973 which is about $10,000 today. Can you get a better scope for $10,000 these days? yes.
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Surely the engineering for a 1 GHz DSO is a solved problem that could be easily spun up in lower cost models now.
Go check the cost of integrated ADCs with a minimum bandwidth of 1 GHz and a sample rate suitable for real time acquisitions. At TI, they start at $212. Now check the cost of integrated parts for the vertical amplifier chain and none of them will support 1 GHz operation. They might work to 350 or 500 MHz.
So higher performance is still going to require a custom design.
I'm not saying it should be a cheap as the usual Chinese OEMs, but I'd pay 3-5k for a 1 GHz digital scope from Tek/Keysight/whatever that's got a decent set of options included in that price. Otherwise, I'm perfectly happy buying older gear.
What they could make for a lower cost is a sampling oscilloscope with a bandwidth of 4 to 8 GHz using standard surface mount construction but apparently there is not enough demand for such a thing.
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I'm not saying it should be a cheap as the usual Chinese OEMs, but I'd pay 3-5k for a 1 GHz digital scope from Tek/Keysight/whatever that's got a decent set of options included in that price. Otherwise, I'm perfectly happy buying older gear.
A reasonable (relatively bug free) 1GHz scope from the Chinese brands will also set you back $8k to $15k.
Sure...but I'm asking why is that so? Surely the engineering difficulties of a 1 GHz scope are pretty much solved by now. When companies have long since moved on to building ridiculously fast 50 GHz+ real time scopes at the top of their product lines, why is a lowly 1 GHz DSO so expensive still? It seems that the low end stuff that is approachable in price hasn't moved much beyond the bandwidths of old workhorses like the Tek 465/485 and the like, yet the 465/485 were NOT cheap in their day. And digital electronics in particular aren't getting any slower.
I'll give you a real-world hobbyist example: some of my interests are in FPGAs. I can clock designs at 100 MHz, and for small numbers of signals it's handy to be able to look at them on an oscilloscope for debugging. My 7904A CRO mainframe with a 7A19 amplifier and a P6201 FET probe is barely enough to make a good determination of clock integrity at 100 MHz, and that's already at least double the bandwidth of most entry level DSOs.
I guess I'm wondering ultimately, why in this world of VLSI design and such, we can't have an affordable high speed DSO that exceeds the capabilities of huge lab grade equipment of decades past.
You'll find the probes that handle the higher bandwidth are sometimes worth as much or more than the scope itself and you might say that there is nothing much inside those probes so why are they so expensive ? ;)
And to measure a 100MHz clock accurately you can forget about anything below 1GHz bandwidth plus throw in a 1.5GHz active probe ;)
cheers
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https://info.tek.com/rs/584-WPH-840/images/en-Tektronix-New-Scope-Sweepstakes-Rules_May-2019.pdf
The Sweepstake rules from the german Tek newsletter is showing a price of 36790USD for the grand price and 24729USD for the first price
Yeah its a bit odd that they'd be giving away a base model, but 24k for an optioned up model with a ton of probes/MSO probes would not be totally unreasonable. For the 5000 rigol scopes, highest end model = about 4x the price of the base model (6x in this case for tek).
Sure...but I'm asking why is that so? Surely the engineering difficulties of a 1 GHz scope are pretty much solved by now. When companies have long since moved on to building ridiculously fast 50 GHz+ real time scopes at the top of their product lines, why is a lowly 1 GHz DSO so expensive still? It seems that the low end stuff that is approachable in price hasn't moved much beyond the bandwidths of old workhorses like the Tek 465/485 and the like, yet the 465/485 were NOT cheap in their day. And digital electronics in particular aren't getting any slower.
I'll give you a real-world hobbyist example: some of my interests are in FPGAs. I can clock designs at 100 MHz, and for small numbers of signals it's handy to be able to look at them on an oscilloscope for debugging. My 7904A CRO mainframe with a 7A19 amplifier and a P6201 FET probe is barely enough to make a good determination of clock integrity at 100 MHz, and that's already at least double the bandwidth of most entry level DSOs.
I guess I'm wondering ultimately, why in this world of VLSI design and such, we can't have an affordable high speed DSO that exceeds the capabilities of huge lab grade equipment of decades past.
- They don't want to eat their market, and undercut themselves. Usually the 1GHz+ tech trickles down, and you want early adopters to pay more up front. Theoretically the Rigol MSO5000 is capable of 500MHz if not 1GHz+ in terms of hardware. Front end not sure. But no way in hell are they going to add those costs in, when they have higher end models to sell.
- Active probes, are you going to sell a 1GHz scope and throw some shitty 350MHz probes in the box? oh wait, tek MSO5000 costs $18k and includes 4 500MHz passive probes :D
- Probe detect/power connections, traditionally this separates lower from higher end oscilloscopes. As soon as some low end parts start adding it, everyone will consider it (which adds $$$).
- Increased cost of circuit board dielectric (possibly).
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make with the 465, it cost $1700 in 1973 which is about $10,000 today. Can you get a better scope for $10,000 these days? yes.
I guess the 485 is more applicable.
The problem is not in the hardware but the firmware of an oscilloscope has become very complicated due to all the features like decoding, measurements, statistics, etc. Nowadays oscilloscopes are more like complex data analysis systems than devices to show wiggly lines on a screen. I'm hearing good things about the Siglent SDS5000 series but that is not a cheap scope either and it seems Siglent is putting in some serious effort using beta testers.
Fair enough.
Surely the engineering for a 1 GHz DSO is a solved problem that could be easily spun up in lower cost models now.
Go check the cost of integrated ADCs with a minimum bandwidth of 1 GHz and a sample rate suitable for real time acquisitions. At TI, they start at $212. Now check the cost of integrated parts for the vertical amplifier chain and none of them will support 1 GHz operation. They might work to 350 or 500 MHz.
So higher performance is still going to require a custom design.
I'm not saying it should be a cheap as the usual Chinese OEMs, but I'd pay 3-5k for a 1 GHz digital scope from Tek/Keysight/whatever that's got a decent set of options included in that price. Otherwise, I'm perfectly happy buying older gear.
What they could make for a lower cost is a sampling oscilloscope with a bandwidth of 4 to 8 GHz using standard surface mount construction but apparently there is not enough demand for such a thing.
Good points. I am a bit surprised this stuff is still so expensive. I guess high performance ADCs and related parts are still niche enough that economies of scale don't kick in. And if custom designs are still needed, that blows the hypothetical low price 1 GHz DSO out of the water.
I'm not saying it should be a cheap as the usual Chinese OEMs, but I'd pay 3-5k for a 1 GHz digital scope from Tek/Keysight/whatever that's got a decent set of options included in that price. Otherwise, I'm perfectly happy buying older gear.
A reasonable (relatively bug free) 1GHz scope from the Chinese brands will also set you back $8k to $15k.
Sure...but I'm asking why is that so? Surely the engineering difficulties of a 1 GHz scope are pretty much solved by now. When companies have long since moved on to building ridiculously fast 50 GHz+ real time scopes at the top of their product lines, why is a lowly 1 GHz DSO so expensive still? It seems that the low end stuff that is approachable in price hasn't moved much beyond the bandwidths of old workhorses like the Tek 465/485 and the like, yet the 465/485 were NOT cheap in their day. And digital electronics in particular aren't getting any slower.
I'll give you a real-world hobbyist example: some of my interests are in FPGAs. I can clock designs at 100 MHz, and for small numbers of signals it's handy to be able to look at them on an oscilloscope for debugging. My 7904A CRO mainframe with a 7A19 amplifier and a P6201 FET probe is barely enough to make a good determination of clock integrity at 100 MHz, and that's already at least double the bandwidth of most entry level DSOs.
I guess I'm wondering ultimately, why in this world of VLSI design and such, we can't have an affordable high speed DSO that exceeds the capabilities of huge lab grade equipment of decades past.
You'll find the probes that handle the higher bandwidth are sometimes worth as much or more than the scope itself and you might say that there is nothing much inside those probes so why are they so expensive ? ;)
And to measure a 100MHz clock accurately you can forget about anything below 1GHz bandwidth plus throw in a 1.5GHz active probe ;)
cheers
Well yeah, making a good probe isn't easy. They are all compromises in some way. My highest frequency active probes are my P6201 FET probes, which are favorably matched with the 7A19 amplifier in my 7904A, as well as with my 2465B. I also have a P6056 passive probe, theoretically good up to 3.5 GHz at a penalty of impedance, but haven't had chance to try it out yet. I got all of them for a fraction of what they cost new.
I guess for me, it will be a waiting game to see how the high performance name brand 'scopes of today (last decade or so) age. In the meantime, you'll find me using my Tek boat anchors. Hoping to find a nice 7104 to go with my 7904A. :-/O
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Low-z passive probes would be cheap if there was enough demand for them.
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https://info.tek.com/rs/584-WPH-840/images/en-Tektronix-New-Scope-Sweepstakes-Rules_May-2019.pdf
The Sweepstake rules from the german Tek newsletter is showing a price of 36790USD for the grand price and 24729USD for the first price
Yeah its a bit odd that they'd be giving away a base model, but 24k for an optioned up model with a ton of probes/MSO probes would not be totally unreasonable. For the 5000 rigol scopes, highest end model = about 4x the price of the base model (6x in this case for tek).
I think it's way to close to make the Series 4 viable against the Series 5. $3700 sounds more on the mark. Remember, they market this as suitable for "almost any budget", for me that's gotta be sub $5k for a decent optioned model.
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I did a little video on this, just has some of my opinions in it, and references this thread.
🔴 #561 New Tektronix Oscilloscope - Tektronix 4 Series MSO ?
https://youtu.be/C2-9QUDrDuQ
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The request for changing the colour of the traces comes from colour-blind engineers - most scopes are set with Red for Ch1 or Ch2 and Green for Ch3 or Ch4, these can't be determined.
I understand :)
Yes, LeCroy had it some time ago, but I think it's still only on their higher-end PC-based scopes.
I think these are also the only ones that were actually developed by Lecroy ;)
I also think anything below the WS3000 is designed by someone else (Siglent?) :-//
I don't know if you can change colors on a Siglent scope ;)
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I don't know if you can change colors on a Siglent scope ;)
None of the current low value models, dunno about the SDS5000X but will have a squiz at one when arrives next week..........should RTFM I guess. :-[
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The request for changing the colour of the traces comes from colour-blind engineers - most scopes are set with Red for Ch1 or Ch2 and Green for Ch3 or Ch4, these can't be determined.
I'm not quite sure about that. On the color versions of the Tektronix TDS500/TDS600/TDS700 series you can also change all the colors. It is not a new feature for Tektronix but it may be they have re-introduced it.
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https://info.tek.com/rs/584-WPH-840/images/en-Tektronix-New-Scope-Sweepstakes-Rules_May-2019.pdf
The Sweepstake rules from the german Tek newsletter is showing a price of 36790USD for the grand price and 24729USD for the first price
Yeah its a bit odd that they'd be giving away a base model, but 24k for an optioned up model with a ton of probes/MSO probes would not be totally unreasonable. For the 5000 rigol scopes, highest end model = about 4x the price of the base model (6x in this case for tek).
I think it's way to close to make the Series 4 viable against the Series 5. $3700 sounds more on the mark. Remember, they market this as suitable for "almost any budget", for me that's gotta be sub $5k for a decent optioned model.
It will probably be the MSO5 with a smaller screen, lower sampling rate and 200MHz, 350MHz, 500MHz and 1GHz bandwidth options. Why reinvent the wheel ?
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here is some magic:
MSO46 4-BW-1500
Oscilloscope 6 channels 1.5GHZ
MSO46 4-BW-1000
Oscilloscope 6 channels 1.0GHZ
MSO46 4-BW-500
Oscilloscope 6 channels 500MHZ
MSO46 4-BW-350
Oscilloscope 6 channels 350MHZ
MSO46 4-BW-200
Oscilloscope 6 channels 200MHZ
MSO44 4-BW-1500
Oscilloscope 4 channels 1.5GHZ
MSO44 4-BW-1000
Oscilloscope 4 channels 1.0GHZ
MSO44 4-BW-500
Oscilloscope 4 channels 500MHZ
MSO44 4-BW-350
Oscilloscope 4 channels 350MHZ
MSO44 4-BW-200
Oscilloscope 4 channels 200MHZ
:popcorn:
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No isolated channels, huh :(? (six channels is cool, though)
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So no more 2 channel model? Makes sense.
The price for the 1.5GHz is going to go sky high.
Will be intyeresting to see if all models are 1.5GHz, or they have two different front ends to get the cost down.
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So no more 2 channel model? Makes sense.
It especially makes sense because if triggering is done digitally, then an entire digitizer has to be included for the external trigger input anyway and if the vertical signal conditioning uses an integrated solution, it makes little sense to have special version for a trigger input. At that point, all of the hardware for a complete vertical input is included anyway so it might as well be a full vertical input. I am only surprised that this never led to three channel DSOs.
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So guessing from the nomenclature, the scopes are bandwidth software upgradeable. Will keep some folks on this forum busy >:D
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I wonder if it's 6analog + 16digital or the same as the 5 series.
I was hoping for 8, so far the only way I've run out of channels on my HPAK has been rail monitoring and even my simple board has more than six rails.
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I don't see anything interesting here, it's very rare that I need to use all four channels on my scope, I've never needed more than that on a scope. Clearly I'm not the market this is aimed at though, a lower cost iteration of the older TDS3000 with some modern features like protocol decoding would be a lot more appealing. I like the compact form factor of those.
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So guessing from the nomenclature, the scopes are bandwidth software upgradeable. Will keep some folks on this forum busy >:D
The no doubt high-ish base price will keep a majority of potential hackers away
Brick a $400 Rigol and it's not a huge loss. Brick a $3k scope and it's a sad day
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So guessing from the nomenclature, the scopes are bandwidth software upgradeable. Will keep some folks on this forum busy >:D
The no doubt high-ish base price will keep a majority of potential hackers away
Brick a $400 Rigol and it's not a huge loss. Brick a $3k scope and it's a sad day
But the possible gains...............
Maybe you missed this, playing with a $ 3.5k scope:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/at-last-siglent_s-sds5054x-touchscreen/msg2376438/#msg2376438 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/at-last-siglent_s-sds5054x-touchscreen/msg2376438/#msg2376438)
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But the possible gains...............
Maybe you missed this, playing with a $ 3.5k scope:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/at-last-siglent_s-sds5054x-touchscreen/msg2376438/#msg2376438 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/at-last-siglent_s-sds5054x-touchscreen/msg2376438/#msg2376438)
Yep, "no pain, no gain".
And the playing was done using a "real" Siglent SDS5104X which costs a "little" more than $3.5k...
So playing with a 200MHz Tek to be able to reach a 1.5GHz Tek also sounds very interesting.
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Free beer!
(https://i.ibb.co/VvM2khW/Tek-new.jpg)
https://www.tek.com/datasheet/mso-datasheet (https://www.tek.com/datasheet/mso-datasheet)
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tekscope_funny_product_brochure.pdf
:palm: besides being more than one month late... that name.. ugh
(https://i.imgflip.com/28r6f0.jpg)
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Looks like I got this one wrong! although there may still be a 4 Series MSO.
There is a new 3 Series MDO (Mixed domain). Separate digital channels.
May not use any of the new 5 series ASIC tech? Perhaps just a GUI revamp to bring the old MDO up to snuff with the new "Series" look?
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tektronix-new-scope-june-4th!/?action=dlattach;attach=738621;image)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tektronix-new-scope-june-4th!/?action=dlattach;attach=738627;image)
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Interesting, before I posted the MDO44/46 list I also looked for something like MDO34/36 but couldn't find anything
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Interesting, before I posted the MDO44/46 list I also looked for something like MDO34/36 but couldn't find anything
My Google Foo is superior :P
It's actually public on Tektronix's website, which is were I got the screen capture of the info blurb
The product URL is restricted though.
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Interesting, before I posted the MDO44/46 list I also looked for something like MDO34/36 but couldn't find anything
My Google Foo is superior :P
It's actually public on Tektronix's website, which is were I got the screen capture of the info blurb
The product URL is restricted though.
here is the model list:
MDO34 3-BW-100 oscilloscope 100MHz
MDO34 3-BW-200 oscilloscope 200MHz
MDO34 3-BW-350 oscilloscope 350MHz
MDO34 3-BW-500 oscilloscope 500MHz
MDO34 3-BW-1000 oscilloscope 1GHz
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got it ;)
https://in.tek.com/education
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price! :wtf:
(https://i.ibb.co/qpXtw5R/Tek-new-2.jpg)
https://www.element14.com/community/search.jspa?q=3107539 (https://www.element14.com/community/search.jspa?q=3107539)
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price! :wtf:
It's Tektronix ;D
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That latest find is an MDO, they stated the new one is an MSO, so I would stick with the original theory.
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Looks like I got this one wrong! although there may still be a 4 Series MSO.
There is a new 3 Series MDO (Mixed domain). Separate digital channels.
May not use any of the new 5 series ASIC tech? Perhaps just a GUI revamp to bring the old MDO up to snuff with the new "Series" look?
The spectrum analyser input is a dead giveaway that it is an MDO3000. Hopefully they have improved this design and not just put the old one in a new case ;)
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That latest find is an MDO, they stated the new one is an MSO, so I would stick with the original theory.
It's now obvious they are using plural "Scopes", so more than one.
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The spectrum analyser input is a dead giveaway that it is an MDO3000. Hopefully they have improved this design and not just put the old one in a new case ;)
That should be evident once you start to use it in terms of performance.
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Is it a race to see who can have the controls with the least contrast?
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Low contrast light gray on lighter gray seems to be the "in" thing in recent years. Annoys the hell out of me too.
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All those old-school aggressive fonts must go!
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Looks like I got this one wrong! although there may still be a 4 Series MSO.
Dave, I don't think you got it wrong. I think they are releasing a 3 and a 4 series. Look at the video. The one clearly shows the ability to change the palette on 6 channels and the 3 series is only 4 channels. Did you see post by simmone? PS. I think this scope looks great! I don't mind the low contrast as it doesn't have many buttons due to the touchscreen and gives it a nice clean look. I just wish Tek would stop giving a middle finger to the hobbyist market and make something under $2k that we would be proud to have on our benches.
3 Series
MDO34 3-BW-100 - 3-SERIES MIXED DOMAIN OSCILLOSCOPE - $4,600.00
MDO34 3-BW-200 - 3-SERIES MIXED DOMAIN OSCILLOSCOPE - $5,150.00
MDO34 3-BW-350 - 3-SERIES MIXED DOMAIN OSCILLOSCOPE - $9,600.00
MDO34 3-BW-500 - 3-SERIES MIXED DOMAIN OSCILLOSCOPE - $12,900.00
MDO34 3-BW-1000 - 3-SERIES MIXED DOMAIN OSCILLOSCOPE - $16,000.00
MDO34 3-BW-1000-DDU-DB-DEMO - DEMO - 3-SERIES MIXED DOMAIN OSCILLOSCOPE - $16,850.00
4 Series
MSO46 4-BW-1500 - Oscilloscope 6 channels 1.5GHZ
MSO46 4-BW-1000 - Oscilloscope 6 channels 1.0GHZ
MSO46 4-BW-500 - Oscilloscope 6 channels 500MHZ
MSO46 4-BW-350 - Oscilloscope 6 channels 350MHZ
MSO46 4-BW-200 - Oscilloscope 6 channels 200MHZ
MSO44 4-BW-1500 - Oscilloscope 4 channels 1.5GHZ
MSO44 4-BW-1000 - Oscilloscope 4 channels 1.0GHZ
MSO44 4-BW-500 - Oscilloscope 4 channels 500MHZ
MSO44 4-BW-350 - Oscilloscope 4 channels 350MHZ
MSO44 4-BW-200 - Oscilloscope 4 channels 200MHZ
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MDO34 3-BW-1000-DDU-DB-DEMO - DEMO - 3-SERIES MIXED DOMAIN OSCILLOSCOPE - $16,850.00
FWIW in regards to that price on the 1 GHz unit - that looks like pricing for a "demo" model that accidentally made it onto their website. Demo models are fully loaded with every option, highest BW, etc. and are only sold to distributors (or used my us directly) to use for demonstrations to customers. Should never be available to purchase by an end user. Super odd pricing though, being $860 more than the 1 GHz base unit. I'll have to think more about where that price might have came from. Keysight uses a 9 month time based "demo" license on these units so they can eventually be sold stock and optioned up after the've been on demo duty, but that demo license comes at no cost.
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Another teaser video :D LOL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2fsfLm0NIU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2fsfLm0NIU)
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Another teaser video :D LOL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2fsfLm0NIU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2fsfLm0NIU)
Lame.
It looks exactly like the 5 Series ::)
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First pic of the new 4 series MSO
Uses the new Flexprobe interface, so you have to sacrifice analog channels for digital.
Not so on the new Series 3 MDO, that has a separate digital input and older probe interface.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tektronix-new-scope-june-4th!/?action=dlattach;attach=746769;image)
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Hires pics
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more pics
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Yep... Boring. Actually... Maybe they think nobody realized the MSO5 came out so they're using this as a do over?
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last pic
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Those pics are not public yet BTW, I URL hacked it, I literally hacked the Russians! ;D
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Tektronix MDO32 3-BW-100 - 2.153,90 €
Tektronix MDO32 3-BW-200 - 4.248,30 €
Tektronix MDO32 3-BW-350 - 5.069,40 €
Tektronix MDO32 3-BW-500 - 8.829,80 €
Tektronix MDO32 3-BW-1000 - 11.245,50 €
-----------------------------------------------
Tektronix MDO34 3-BW-100 - € - $4,600.00 (Newark)
Tektronix MDO34 3-BW-200 - 5.069,40 € - $5,150.00
Tektronix MDO34 3-BW-350 - 5.676,30 € - $9,600.00
Tektronix MDO34 3-BW-500 - 10.591,00 € - $12,900.00
Tektronix MDO34 3-BW-1000 - 14.280,00 € - $16,000.00
-----------------------------------------------
Tektronix MSO44 4-BW-200 - € - $7,550.00 (Newark)
Tektronix MSO44 4-BW-350 - 8.556,10 € - $11,750.00
Tektronix MSO44 4-BW-500 - 13.328,00 € - $15,500.00
Tektronix MSO44 4-BW-1000 - 17.612,00 € - $19,100.00
Tektronix MSO44 4-BW-1500 - 21.658,00 € - $24,000.00
-----------------------------------------------
Tektronix MSO46 4-BW-200 - €
Tektronix MSO46 4-BW-350 - 11.447,80 €
Tektronix MSO46 4-BW-500 - 16.065,00 €
Tektronix MSO46 4-BW-1000 - 21.301,00 €
Tektronix MSO46 4-BW-1500 - 21.658,00 €
(includes taxes)
MDO3: Bandwidth upgrades up to 500 MHz can be performed in the field, while upgrades to 1 GHz require installation at a Tektronix service center.
Tektronix MDO3 Datasheet (http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=52195243898924591229)
Tektronix MSO4 Datasheet (http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=71012465971557711198)
Tektronix MSO5 Datasheet (https://download.tek.com/datasheet/5-Series-MSO-Datasheet-48W6085011.pdf)
Tektronix MSO6 Datasheet (https://download.tek.com/datasheet/MSO6-Series_Datasheet-48W613537.pdf)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tektronix-new-scope-june-4th!/?action=dlattach;attach=746874;image)
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First pic of the new 4 series MSO
Uses the new Flexprobe interface, so you have to sacrifice analog channels for digital.
Not so on the new Series 3 MDO, that has a separate digital input and older probe interface.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tektronix-new-scope-june-4th!/?action=dlattach;attach=746769;image)
It's probably not as bad as you think it is. Most of the times when you are looking at digital signals you are most likely not interested in analog and vice versa, or if you are then it is probably only one or two analog signals. A generally speaking most of the digital work is going to be done looking at a few digital lines such as serial protocols etc
On the flip-side if you need the 6 channels of analog how many scopes have 6 channels ?
But the MDO3 seems to be a rebadge of the MDO3000 hopefully with some improvements ;)
cheers
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Is there going to be a replacement for DPO2000B from year 2008??
Oh, I do not mind the strange TBS2000. https://www.tek.com/oscilloscope/tbs2000-basic-oscilloscope (https://www.tek.com/oscilloscope/tbs2000-basic-oscilloscope)
Is it made by Owon or what?
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First pic of the new 4 series MSO
Uses the new Flexprobe interface, so you have to sacrifice analog channels for digital.
Not so on the new Series 3 MDO, that has a separate digital input and older probe interface.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tektronix-new-scope-june-4th!/?action=dlattach;attach=746769;image)
It's probably not as bad as you think it is. Most of the times when you are looking at digital signals you are most likely not interested in analog and vice versa, or if you are then it is probably only one or two analog signals. A generally speaking most of the digital work is going to be done looking at a few digital lines such as serial protocols etc
On the flip-side if you need the 6 channels of analog how many scopes have 6 channels ?
But the MDO3 seems to be a rebadge of the MDO3000 hopefully with some improvements ;)
cheers
Hopefully the 3-series is a repackaging of the 4000 of yore.
Using the RF on the current 3000 is ... interesting.
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The 4 Series will only have 100wfs updating in normal mode :--
You need the use the FastACQ mode to get the 500kwfs update.
The new 3 series is quicker with 50kwfs in normal mode :-DD
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But the MDO3 seems to be a rebadge of the MDO3000 hopefully with some improvements ;)
Apart from the bigger screen and new "Series" UI, it's the same hardware specs. Maybe a faster processor to make it less sluggish?
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But the MDO3 seems to be a rebadge of the MDO3000 hopefully with some improvements ;)
Apart from the bigger screen and new "Series" UI, it's the same hardware specs. Maybe a faster processor to make it less sluggish?
Except new case, screen, and what is new about that, all other specs for "scope parts" is exactly the same, 10MPoints, sample rates, RF input. No segmented memory.
I think you're right.
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But the MDO3 seems to be a rebadge of the MDO3000 hopefully with some improvements ;)
Apart from the bigger screen and new "Series" UI, it's the same hardware specs. Maybe a faster processor to make it less sluggish?
Except new case, screen, and what is new about that, all other specs for "scope parts" is exactly the same, 10MPoints, sample rates, RF input. No segmented memory.
Correct, no segmented memory also.
Nothing has changed in terms of specs.
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Chatted with Tektronix sales today about bandwidth upgrades for the 3 and 4 series. The 4 series scope is purely software upgradable. This is going to be a honey pot if someone "unlocks" this thing in the future 8)
3 series needs a hardware upgrade for the 1ghz model.
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The 4 series scope is purely software upgradable. This is going to be a honey pot if someone "unlocks" this thing in the future 8)
Well, $7500 for low end model is hardly an easy price of entry just to try and hack a scope. Even if it could be done, the price alone would exclude most hobbyist from considering it. Only way I'm going to get one of these scopes I expect is if I win a contest, and to be honest I don't particular feel like paying the taxes on a $13k scope atm if I did win.
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Well, $7500 for low end model is hardly an easy price of entry just to try and hack a scope. Even if it could be done, the price alone would exclude most hobbyist from considering it. Only way I'm going to get one of these scopes I expect is if I win a contest, and to be honest I don't particular feel like paying the taxes on a $13k scope atm if I did win.
Wow. I didn't realize the 200mhz 4 channel entry price was that high. The 200mhz 6 channel is ~10k. never mind :-DD.
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Chatted with Tektronix sales today about bandwidth upgrades for the 3 and 4 series. The 4 series scope is purely software upgradable. This is going to be a honey pot if someone "unlocks" this thing in the future 8)
3 series needs a hardware upgrade for the 1ghz model.
any news about this new scopes series ? someone is using them ?
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any news about this new scopes series ? someone is using them ?
I have a 4-series on my desk. What do you want to know?
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any news about this new scopes series ? someone is using them ?
I have a 4-series on my desk. What do you want to know?
Welcome to the forum.
We all want to know EVERYTHING !
Including previous scope experience on which to base your comments on. :)
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At every fair i've been on since the launch of the 5 series i've been bitching that they need to throw away everything they have -starting from the TPS- and replace them with a new scope using ONE or TWO of their new asics.
One asic has 4 ADCs inside and exposes 4 ADC inputs. For god's sake get a clue and do what every single competitor is doing, accessible scopes for the engineers of the future and small businesses
every time i was told to wait and see in the next six month *wink wink*
let's see.
Can anyone elaborate?
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At every fair i've been on since the launch of the 5 series i've been bitching that they need to throw away everything they have -starting from the TPS- and replace them with a new scope using ONE or TWO of their new asics.
One asic has 4 ADCs inside and exposes 4 ADC inputs. For god's sake get a clue and do what every single competitor is doing, accessible scopes for the engineers of the future and small businesses
every time i was told to wait and see in the next six month *wink wink*
let's see.
Can anyone elaborate?
This post is from 2019.
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This post is from 2019.
Yes I know, I was trying to figure out what Tektronix was/is doing that people find less than optimal.
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At every fair i've been on since the launch of the 5 series i've been bitching that they need to throw away everything they have -starting from the TPS- and replace them with a new scope using ONE or TWO of their new asics.
One asic has 4 ADCs inside and exposes 4 ADC inputs. For god's sake get a clue and do what every single competitor is doing, accessible scopes for the engineers of the future and small businesses
every time i was told to wait and see in the next six month *wink wink*
let's see.
Can anyone elaborate?
Yes: The Tektronix TPS series is one of the very few truly isolated scopes on the market. This is different than floating the scope (or the DUT) because in a regular scope all grounds are tied together, that opens up to niche applications such as
- Monitoring several circuits that ARE floating at the same time, such as primary and secondary in a power supply, or fuel injectors
- Monitoring differential busses as single ended
- Monitoring different parts of a circuit using a different reference point, for example using one channel to measure the current sense resistor directly at its two terminals
And all at full bandwidth, things you can do with differential probes as well, of course, but you have to drop big ones for each probe if you want both high bandwidth and low CMRR
The problem with the Tek TPS is that it is a very old architecture, over the 15-20 years it has been on the market it has been updated only once, just to remove the CF slot and give an usb port for saving screenshots.
At its heart it still uses the very old asic with 2.5kS memory per channel, it is a very expensive, very limited scope, but it still is one of the best tools for the job.
Tektronix has been updating all the lineup, minus the TPS series so that is why i started asking at every fair i went if they had the plan to.
After all they had this new ASIC that would do everything, couldn't they come up with isolated front ends for this one as well? (IIRC the TPS has the analog signal going into an optic modulator, which is demodulated on the board and then fed to the ADC, that's why it is so noisy)
"confidential" answer was that there was something coming out in 6 months, every time.
Once it was the new isolated probes. Works of art but ludicrously expensive
Then the 3/4 series, no isolated version
Then the 2 series, it retains the battery power and has a very interesting form factor. Love it, would get one or two immediately. IF ONLY it has isolated channels.
Alas, Siglent came out with a 2 channel scope with 2 isolated channels, however they are only two. We usually need at least three
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Alas, Siglent came out with a 2 channel scope with 2 isolated channels, however they are only two. We usually need at least three
I have seen some oscilloscopes with isolated channels where the external trigger channel was also isolated, as it should be.
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Three ANALOG channels ;)
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Three ANALOG channels ;)
R&S Scoperider has up to 4 isolated analog channels. But also not really cheap and memory depth is just 500kpts.
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After all they had this new ASIC that would do everything, couldn't they come up with isolated front ends for this one as well? (IIRC the TPS has the analog signal going into an optic modulator, which is demodulated on the board and then fed to the ADC, that's why it is so noisy)
"confidential" answer was that there was something coming out in 6 months, every time.
Once it was the new isolated probes. Works of art but ludicrously expensive
Then the 3/4 series, no isolated version
Then the 2 series, it retains the battery power and has a very interesting form factor. Love it, would get one or two immediately. IF ONLY it has isolated channels.
Alas, Siglent came out with a 2 channel scope with 2 isolated channels, however they are only two. We usually need at least three
If you are into power electronics then look at Yokogawa. They have some interesting oscilloscopes in their line-up including isolated channels.
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Alas, Siglent came out with a 2 channel scope with 2 isolated channels, however they are only two. We usually need at least three
Nothing new, the SHS1000 models have been around for years however they have just been updated to SHS1000X with more capabilities, Decoding, deeper memory, larger display, Lithium battery etc.
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The problem with the Tek TPS is that it is a very old architecture, over the 15-20 years it has been on the market it has been updated only once, just to remove the CF slot and give an usb port for saving screenshots.
At its heart it still uses the very old asic with 2.5kS memory per channel, it is a very expensive, very limited scope, but it still is one of the best tools for the job.
Tektronix has been updating all the lineup, minus the TPS series so that is why i started asking at every fair i went if they had the plan to.
AFAIK the current TPS models (TPS2000B) still have the CF slot. So truly dinosaurs and they still want $6K+.
Still, I get <1mVrms noise, which is better than any differential probe I can get my hands on. And its very basic feature set 'just works'.
Of course they have 'updated' it with A and B models just enough so that most of the parts you might want for the older ones are NLA.