EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: DanielSpokane on April 25, 2017, 06:32:06 am
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I have a Tektronix TDS220 that i use for trouble shooting RF equipment and guitar tube amp mods/trouble shooting. Someone locally is selling a Rigol DS1102E for $180. I was noticing it has a color display and USB ports. My TDS220 has the communication module but requires serial port use if i want to hook to a computer. Was thinking the Rigol might be a decent upgrade for a decent price. What do you guys think? I think overall the Tek is probably a better built scope in it's day, but the Rigol is newer.
Thoughts?
Thanks,
Daniel
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I searched through previous posts and didn't see anything directly addressing this. Seems like this is a pretty difficult call. Tried and true vs. potentially lower quality newer but has newer bells and whistles.
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The Rigol is definitively nicer.
It's been a strong seller for Rigol, and I did not hear much complaints about it.
I think it's a nice upgrade, but I think it's a small step. Of course it's better, but you might as well just keep your TDS220 and save for an even nicer thing later on (like that new Siglent 380$ killer!).
It's not like you are gaining much new capabilities...
Unless you can sell the TDS220 for the same price as the Rigol ;)
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I think it's a nice upgrade, but I think it's a small step. Of course it's better, but you might as well just keep your TDS220 and save for an even nicer thing later on (like that new Siglent 380$ killer!).
It's not like you are gaining much new capabilities...
Re the Siglent, are you referring to the SDS1202X-E? Think it's worth another $200 over the $180 price i can get the Rigol DS1102E for?
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I think it's a nice upgrade, but I think it's a small step. Of course it's better, but you might as well just keep your TDS220 and save for an even nicer thing later on (like that new Siglent 380$ killer!).
It's not like you are gaining much new capabilities...
Re the Siglent, are you referring to the SDS1202X-E? Think it's worth another $200 over the $180 price i can get the Rigol DS1102E for?
Just like with anything else in life, it depends on what you use the oscilloscope for. If you use it to see waveforms just like your existing TDS220 then you will be perfectly happy with the extensive capabilities of the DS1102E - the color display is something much nicer as well. The DS1102E is fast and has plenty of memory to look at stored waveforms. The only thing I missed in my DS1102E was the intensity grading.
This last detail is something that is present on the Siglent as well as on the four channel Rigol DS1054Z (which is the same ballpark price). Also, if you intend to move to digital circuits and benefit from protocol decoding capabilities on the oscilloscope, these two models offer this capability.
That or you can put your extra $180 towards a PC-based decent logic analyzer with more advanced abilities than an oscilloscope-based protocol analyzer. The drawback is the need to have a PC at or near the bench.
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Thanks, this is very helpful.
How important do you guys consider the 7" display (like on the Siglent SDS1202X-E and the Rigol DS1054Z) vs. a 5.6" (like on the Rigol DS1102E)? In addition to the additional features... seems like the larger higher res screen would be nice--and worth the extra money alone. But then again maybe not that big of a deal?
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I think it's a nice upgrade, but I think it's a small step. Of course it's better, but you might as well just keep your TDS220 and save for an even nicer thing later on (like that new Siglent 380$ killer!).
It's not like you are gaining much new capabilities...
Re the Siglent, are you referring to the SDS1202X-E? Think it's worth another $200 over the $180 price i can get the Rigol DS1102E for?
I'd wait for the independant in-depth reviews first before buying. Siglent has never introduced a new oscilloscope which was free of several major bugs (and that goes for almost all of their other equipment as well). It can make sense to buy an older Rigol model with more mature firmware so at least you can investigate what you are getting into. Maybe try to offer a lower price for that DS1102E and see if you can get down to $100 to $125.
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Thanks, this is very helpful.
How important do you guys consider the 7" display (like on the Siglent SDS1202X-E and the Rigol DS1054Z) vs. a 5.6" (like on the Rigol DS1102E)? In addition to the additional features... seems like the larger higher res screen would be nice--and worth the extra money alone. But then again maybe not that big of a deal?
This kind of topic always get heated quite fast. Be it Rigol, Siglent or Tek, there will always be pros and cons about each brand and products.
In the end, it's about you and your needs. The point is not "which is the best ~400$ scope", it is:
- Is the TDS220 still doing what you need it to do?
- Would the Rigol DS1102E bring value in your typical day?
- Would a bigger [Rigol DS1054Z or Siglent SDS1202X-E] scope be worth it?
I really like nctnico's proposal: try to get the Rigol DS1102E for 125$, and then sell your TDS220 on ebay. You should get almost even and get that nice upgrade!
About screen size, yes, it typically matters ;) If you can easily see in one screen what a less capable scope requires much scrolling to see, it's a gain. For example, the Keysight 3000x and 4000x main differentiator is the much larger screen.
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How old is the Rigol?
If it's more than a year or two old then see if you can talk him down to $150.
OTOH if your Tek is still working OK then wait a month or three. Save up for the new Siglent and get one if the reviewers say 'yay!'.
$180 isn't the bargain of a lifetime for a DS1102E, more will come along.
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I really like nctnico's proposal: try to get the Rigol DS1102E for 125$, and then sell your TDS220 on ebay. You should get almost even and get that nice upgrade!
This, too. People go all google-eyed when they see the "Tek" name. :popcorn:
(no, I don't know why...)
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Thanks, this is very helpful.
How important do you guys consider the 7" display (like on the Siglent SDS1202X-E and the Rigol DS1054Z) vs. a 5.6" (like on the Rigol DS1102E)? In addition to the additional features... seems like the larger higher res screen would be nice--and worth the extra money alone. But then again maybe not that big of a deal?
When I used my DS1102E the screen didn't bother me at all. Just keep in mind that, if the resolution does not increase accordingly with screen size, you may not have a good image. I tend to prefer crisp images when you have more PPI - in this factor the newer models win: DS1102E has 71PPI while both the Siglent and Rigol have an average of 133PPI.
I'd wait for the independant in-depth reviews first before buying.
That is also good advice.
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Well based on advice I've received thus far I figured I would try talking him down a bit from $180 but he is firm on the price. I'm thinking I'm going to pass since it sounds like it's not a steal of a deal and doesn't offer much of an upgrade over my TDS220. However, this exercise has sparked my interest in the Rigol DS1054Z. Sure seems like this is a great value at the $400 mark (399 On Amazon with shipping). More than I wanted to spend at the outset, but seems like it would definitely be an upgrade in features over my Tek TDS220.
Someone also suggested the Siglent SDS1202X-E which also looks pretty nice with only 2 channels but otherwise better specs than the DS1054Z... but it is newer and the verdict is somewhat out on it. I think im going to spend about $400 (and eBay my TDS220 and hope I can recoup some of the $400). Any one have an opinion on the Rigol DS1054Z vs the Siglent SDS1202X-E? I think its coming down to one of these two. Any other i should add to the list? Thoughts?
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Looks like the Siglent SDS1202X-E has an 8" display... And with some of the beefed up specs does that put it over the Rigol DS1054Z which has a 7" display? They both have the same resolution so maybe not a huge benefit... but bigger is better right? Still leaning towards the DS1054Z because of the proven record and value. Think I'll be disappointed? Anything else i should consider?
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Looks like I mixed up the Siglent model that has the 8" screen. Correction:
Siglent SDS1202X-E -- 7" display, 2ch, 200mhz, $379
Siglent SDS1102X -- 8" display, 2ch, 100mhz, $424
Rigol DS1054Z -- 7" display, 4ch, 50mhz, $399
Hmmmm. Difficult. Thinking it's between the DS1054Z and the SDS1102X. Probably going to go with the Rigol. Thoughts?
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For me it would be no contest; the Rigol DS1102E does not support peak detection so I would not even consider it. What Rigol calls peak detection in the manual is envelope detection and I believe they deliberately confuse the two for marketing reasons.
From the DS1102E manual:
Peak Detect Acquisition: Peak Detect mode captures the maximum and minimum values of a signal. Finds highest and lowest record points over many acquisitions.
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Looks like I mixed up the Siglent model that has the 8" screen. Correction:
Siglent SDS1202X-E -- 7" display, 2ch, 200mhz, $379
Siglent SDS1102X -- 8" display, 2ch, 100mhz, $424
Rigol DS1054Z -- 7" display, 4ch, 50mhz, $399
Hmmmm. Difficult. Thinking it's between the DS1054Z and the SDS1102X. Probably going to go with the Rigol. Thoughts?
You did and thanks for putting readers right. :-+
BTW, you can edit or even delete an incorrect post. ;)
Thoughts.
I've used 1102X for some time and it's a real nice little scope....actually the display @ 8" is larger than you think BUT with the arrival of X-E and having the 2 models alongside each other and despite the bit smaller display I would go for X-E in a flash. Great FFT, 200 MHz and Decode free.
Someone in the SDS1202X-E thread called it a boring scope :=\ as there is no need to hack it. :-DD
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Looks like the Siglent SDS1202X-E has an 8" display... And with some of the beefed up specs does that put it over the Rigol DS1054Z which has a 7" display? They both have the same resolution so maybe not a huge benefit... but bigger is better right? Still leaning towards the DS1054Z because of the proven record and value. Think I'll be disappointed? Anything else i should consider?
GW Instek GDS-1054B. Around $360, 4 channels / 50MHz, 7" screen, lot's of bells & whistles and long FFT but no decoding.
MicSig TO1074. Around $380-ish, 4 channels, 70MHz, 8" 800x600 screen (most display area of all scopes listed so far), battery power option, reasonable FFT, touchscreen operation, very compact.
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Looks like the Siglent SDS1202X-E has an 8" display... And with some of the beefed up specs does that put it over the Rigol DS1054Z which has a 7" display? They both have the same resolution so maybe not a huge benefit... but bigger is better right? Still leaning towards the DS1054Z because of the proven record and value. Think I'll be disappointed? Anything else i should consider?
GW Instek GDS-1054B. Around $360, 4 channels / 50MHz, 7" screen, lot's of bells & whistles and long FFT but no decoding.
MicSig TO1074. Around $380-ish, 4 channels, 70MHz, 8" 800x600 screen (most display area of all scopes listed so far), battery power option, reasonable FFT, touchscreen operation, very compact.
One detail to keep in mind: certain oscilloscopes have larger screens but their User Interface leaves a lot to be desired in terms of actually benefiting from the larger display. It is not uncommon to find that certain manufacturers fill the edges of the screen with fixed menus or sometimes dead space. For example, the MicSig, the Rigol and the Siglent screens seem to have a lot of area taken by fixed menus, while the Instek uses it to display waveforms.
Obviously that someone that has experience with these oscilloscopes can tell if you can hide these menus. Also, looking at the brochures and independent reviews on Youtube can give you a clearer idea.
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Any one have an opinion on the Rigol DS1054Z vs the Siglent SDS1202X-E? I think its coming down to one of these two. Any other i should add to the list? Thoughts?
You'll get plenty of opinions here. :-DD
The clincher is that it depends on what you'll be doing. Your use cases will impact how many channels you need, amount of bandwidth, which features will be worthwhile, etc.
Another way to approach it is to think about what you've needed or wanted to do, but could not do well, if at all, with your TDS220. Then, choose which scope(s) best fulfill those deficiencies.
If you can visit a store/distributor to try out the scopes, that would be good, too, especially with regard to the UI and interaction design.
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I really like nctnico's proposal: try to get the Rigol DS1102E for 125$, and then sell your TDS220 on ebay. You should get almost even and get that nice upgrade!
This, too. People go all google-eyed when they see the "Tek" name. :popcorn:
(no, I don't know why...)
I'm a huge Tek fan, their products are legendary, they practically invented the oscilloscope and I'm originally from Portland so Tek is a bit of a local business. It's rare that I have any sort of brand loyalty whatsoever but when it comes to Tektronix, Fluke and HP I'll make an exception.
That said, it's hard to argue with the features and bang for the buck of the Rigol. I think if I were recommending a scope to somebody it would be hard to recommend a TDS220 instead, although I certainly wouldn't give up my TDS784C for one.
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Another way to approach it is to think about what you've needed or wanted to do, but could not do well, if at all, with your TDS220. Then, choose which scope(s) best fulfill those deficiencies.
That is usually how I approach it. I already have a couple of old Tektronix DSOs and I use them for things which the Rigol cannot do so it would not be an upgrade for me; I would still be using my old oscilloscopes.
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Did he post pics? Take a good look at the small knobs, often those crack, great negotiating tactic because Rigol will replace them for free.
I like my DS1102E