Tektronix TLA7BB4 module in TLA715 logic analyser mainframe?

[nctnico]

Has anyone tried to use a Tektronix TLA7BB4 module in a TLA715 mainframe? I just got a TLA7BB4 module in as-is condition from Ebay but it has been dropped (*). I duct-tape repaired a regulator module and after that the module passes each diagnostic test but it freezes (orange led keeps blinking) when I try to do an acquisition. The TLA715 mainframe runs version 5.1 but I'm using version 6.1.127 to control the mainframe remotely. There are 3 possible problems:
1) The duct-tape fix isn't enough (I already ordered a new module)
2) There is other damage to the module
3) The TLA715 mainframe hardware is incompatible
4) I need to run a newer version of the software on the mainframe
I hope someone can help me eliminate a few items from the list above!

(*) To make things worse: shortly after I bought the module another Ebay seller offered several of these modules with warranty for a similar price compared to what I have paid for mine. 

[dxl]

I tried it and it didn't work. I have two TLAs: one TLA715 and one TLA7016. In the TLA7016 it works without any problems, in the TLA715 i think it just times out during self tests.

[nctnico]

Which TLA application software version do you run on the TLA715?

[dxl]

5.1 at the moment. I also had a modified version of 5.6 running on the 7BB4 (or was it something newer? don't remember exactly.) But that didn't help.

[nctnico]

That doesn't sound hopeful. The TLA7BB4 module has firmware version 6.1.001 installed which is the latest version but under the sticker it says version 5.6. I think I'll try to upgrade the mainframe to version 5.6 and see what happens then. I had my TLA7AA4 module working just fine in the ancient TLA704 mainframe so I kinda assumed it wouldn't be hard to get the TLA7BB4 module working in a much more recent mainframe. Anyway you confirmed you had similar problems like the ones I'm seeing so I'm hopeful replacing the regulator will at least get me a working acquisition module which I could sell for as much as I paid for it if it turns out to be useless to me.

[nctnico]

Crap! I managed to install TLA application version 5.6 on my TLA715 with some good old InstallShield hacking but that doesn't help at all. The TLA7BB4 module keeps locking up when reading the data from an acquisition. There must be some protocol or hardware difference. Maybe some VXI fast transfer mode which isn't supported?

[TiN]

You may want to downgrade firmware of BB4 to make it work with older TLA app. What does BB4 serial console output say?
I'd love to try BB4, had it on ebay watch for a while but they all go for many K$ before . Obviously i missed those few recent modules  .

P.S. I have 714, but I think it's all the same.

[dxl]

Are you sure that there is an older Firmware than 5.6 .XXX for TLA7BB4? I've never seen one, and TLA 5.6 is the lowest version that supports the BB4.

In rare cases the modules go for low prices. I found a TLA7BB4 last year where the heatsink were fallen off (probably dropped). I put in an offer off 180US$, and it was accepted. I glued the Heatsinks to the chips and the module is working - but of course there was luck involved - the module could have had some serious damage due to the drop. Luckily it didn't.

[nctnico]

You may want to downgrade firmware of BB4 to make it work with older TLA app. What does BB4 serial console output say?
I'd love to try BB4, had it on ebay watch for a while but they all go for many K$ before . Obviously i missed those few recent modules  .

I have made a log with the VISA monitoring tool on the mainframe while using the mainframe remotely and attached it to this posting. At the end you can see the operations time out. On the module itself the Accessed LED keeps blinking rapidly.

[alm]

Some comments from someone not hindered by any experience with this hardware . It appears to me that the X/Y/Z commands are some sort of memory read/writes (is there any documentation about the SCPI commands of the modules?). It is interesting that these are the only commands we see that are not SCPI compliant (for efficiency?). It successfully completed the viWrite("X 32768"), so it did not hang after the long viRead. It hangs on a VISA write. So it appears that the module is not acknowledging the write. And after that it hangs completely (does not acknowledge the SYST:ERR? that the software sends to figure out what is wrong).

Is the timeout always at the same place? I do not see any viSetAttribute that changes transfer mode right before the write, so if your theory about an unsupported VXI transfer mode is correct, then I would expect it to fail either right after enabling that transfer mode or intermittently.

If it is not related to the physical layer, then it seems that the module just hangs after that write. So either it is a fault in the module, or the software is not sending the correct commands. It would be interesting to compare this log to one from a newer mainframe that does support it. Or to hook up a logic analyzer to the processor in the module .

[nctnico]

I've made only one trace but the behaviour is always the same.

I've also made a trace using a TLA7AA4 module and attached it. It seems the Z? command asks for the length of the data and then the data is being read from the module. Somehow requesting the length of the data fails on the TLA7BB4 module.

BTW both modules run the required firmware version for TLA application version 6.1.

[Omicron]

According to this FAQ it's not supported for the TLA715:

http://www.tek.com/support/faqs/can-i-install-new-modules-my-tla714-tla715-portable-and-tla720-tla721-benchtop-mainfram

I recently upgraded from a TLA715 to a TLA7012. They are starting to show up for reasonable prices on eBay (still a lot more expensive than a TLA715, but then again the module you have is quite expensive in itself).

Do you have a link to the ebay seller you mentioned?

[nctnico]

According to this FAQ it's not supported for the TLA715:

http://www.tek.com/support/faqs/can-i-install-new-modules-my-tla714-tla715-portable-and-tla720-tla721-benchtop-mainfram

I recently upgraded from a TLA715 to a TLA7012. They are starting to show up for reasonable prices on eBay (still a lot more expensive than a TLA715, but then again the module you have is quite expensive in itself).

Do you have a link to the ebay seller you mentioned?

This seller had 6 modules for sale with the deepest memory and faster state options as well: www.ebay.nl/usr/kalleyomalley

I know the TLA7BB4 module isn't supported in the TLA715 but I have had succes with using unsupported modules in my TLA704 mainframe. I'm not very keen on upgrading to a TLA7012 or TLA7016 because they are much larger (and probably louder) than the TLA700 series mainframes. One thing I'm contemplating is getting a TLA704 mainframe and remove the processor board from it and put a TLA7016 control module in it to have a compact logic analysis system. But then again that is a lot of work as well.

[Omicron]

Ah! Seems I've missed out on that!

The TLA7012 is mostly taller. Depth and width are comparable to the TLA715. It might be a little bit wider but it fits in the same place the TLA715 did on my desk. You are right that it is a bit louder. It seems to depend also on the modules you have in it. I have a TLA7AB4 in it and that causes an additional fan to come on as compared to the TLA7AA4 I had in it before (I don't think the module itself has a fan built in?). Even so it's still far less noisy than say an Agilent 16903A, those things are horrible!

It does seem though as if more memory on the module means it needs more cooling as that is the only difference between a TLA7AB4 and a TLA7AA4. I wonder if the incompatibility stems from power/cooling restrictions on the slots in the TLA715 as compared to the later models?

[nctnico]

I doubt cooling or power is a problem. The TLA7BB4 seems like a more modern design with BGA DDR(?) memory chips and a bunch of ASICs with heatsinks.
I think the incompatibility has more to do with screen resolution and processing power. Application software version 5.6 and later are useless on an 800x600 screen and the lack of processing power on the older mainframes isn't helping either. However I'm always using my TLA715 remotely and that works just fine.

Anyway, I'll replace the voltage regulator module first and do more testing. Part of a ferrite core fell off so I stuck a piece of reasonably high frequency ferrite on it to try but I don't know if the voltage regular module is able to deliver the required current since it may require a different type of ferrite (it is rated for 1.2V @ 50A).

[TiN]

I meant not VXI interface log, but serial log out of module own PPC RTOS. I never saw guts of BB4, but on my AA4 getting serial out is as simple as hooking three wires to debug UART. Maybe there are some hints about what BB4 does not like in the system or failure messages. Worth a try.

[nctnico]

I meant not VXI interface log, but serial log out of module own PPC RTOS. I never saw guts of BB4, but on my AA4 getting serial out is as simple as hooking three wires to debug UART. Maybe there are some hints about what BB4 does not like in the system or failure messages. Worth a try.

Aha, I could try that for kicks. I see the LPU board in the BB4 also has two plugs like the AA4. Do you know which pins are the serial port? I have a universal USB to TTL-UART converter box and wires.
BTW the service manual of the TLA7BB4 has color pictures in it.

[TiN]

I don't remember tbh, I just hooked to UART pins of LT level translator, as I rarely have RS232 level translator handy.

[nctnico]

I don't remember tbh, I just hooked to UART pins of LT level translator, as I rarely have RS232 level translator handy.

OK, I guess it will take some investigation then.

[nctnico]

I tried measuring some signals on the connector market RS232 on the processor board but I have not seen any signals on it (not even logic levels).

Edit: it seems I judged to quickly and may have missed a signal. I spotted an ICL3223 chip. It seems they mapped the sub-D 9 serial port layout onto a 10 pin header: 3=RX, 5=TX, 9=ground. RTS and CTS also seem to be connected. Unfortunately I didn't measure the TX pin. I think I'll leave this for now because I don't see how this will help to get the TLA7BB4 module to work in the TLA715 mainframe.

[nctnico]

I have replaced the voltage regulator module but that didn't solve the problem  The TLA7BB4 still hangs when trying to make a short acquisition. I guess I just have to give up at this point. It might even be a bug in the VXI-PCI driver...

Some repair photos.
The original module with the piece of ferrite stuck on it:


Some polyimide tape to prevent heating the surrounding components:


Leftovers:

The module has pins soldered to it. I decided to desolder the voltage regulator module from the pins so I didn't need to put extreme amounts of heat into the main board. It is much easier to desolder the individual pins from the main board. However this meant frying the original voltage regulator module.

The new voltage regulator module in place:


I have created an album on Flickr with high res photos for those who want to see some real circuit board design crafts:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/133456893@N03/albums/72157682314249022

BTW the TLA7BB4 acquisition module has a list price going up to around $150k.

[TiN]

It's my turn now to hax attempt  . I managed to seduce nctnico to part with BB4, and to make fun even more challenging I'll be trying to get it up in even older TLA714.

Are you sure that there is an older Firmware than 5.6 .XXX for TLA7BB4?

Stash of saved ebay photos indeed reveal BB4 with 5.4. FW on BB4 we try in this thread is 6.1 at this moment.



After some fiddle-middle, I've got it to pass self-diag.



Also haxing to full config was easy enough:



Module HW itself has 4GBytes of DDR2 RAM (those BGA rams around on both top and bottom sides).

As bad news - there is no serial output on either of the UARTs

Guts tell me that older server (v5.1) don't understand faster module/Magnivu speed of BB4 and triggering module to halt in error condition (fast blinking activity LED).
I need to find a way to install newer TLA Apps than 5.1 on mainframe itself to try with newer server side.

[nctnico]

Good to see it has arrived half way around the world in one piece! 

[Ordinaryman1971]

Hi guys, what are the drivers for the VGA adapter on the TLA714? Any way of posting it? How much memory can 714 accept, are there any motherboard BIOS upgrades that anybody knows about. How to upgrade firmware on the frame itself?

[TiN]

I got back to this fruitless project, and finally found the console.
7BB4 engineers obviously were fans of Star Trek 

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Adding 8042 symbols for standalone.
 

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 ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]       VxWorks version 5.2
 ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]       KERNEL: WIND version 2.4
 ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]       Copyright Wind River Systems, Inc., 1984-1995

                              CPU: Tektronix VXItools.  Processor #68360.
                              Memory Size: 0x400000.  BSP version 1.0.

> PREPARE TO BE ASSIMILATED

 /3\  PLL Calibration...required 0.1 seconds
 |\./| MCA Calibration...loading values from nvram...required 0.0 seconds
  \|/  Arc Load/Diag.....required 0.6 seconds
   /2\  PLL Calibration...required 0.1 seconds
  |\./| MCA Calibration...2 saving values to nvram...(ERROR)calDramAlignEdge:calMaxZeros testdqs falling-> grp8
 .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ..
Loop[00][Dram:1][Group:0]: 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000
Loop[01][Dram:1][Group:0]: 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000
Loop[02][Dram:1][Group:0]: 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000
Loop[03][Dram:1][Group:0]: 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000
Loop[04][Dram:1][Group:0]: 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000
Loop[05][Dram:1][Group:0]: 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000
Loop[06][Dram:1][Group:0]: 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000
Loop[07][Dram:1][Group:0]: 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000
Loop[08][Dram:1][Group:0]: 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000
Loop[09][Dram:1][Group:0]: 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000
Loop[10][Dram:1][Group:0]: 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000
Loop[11][Dram:1][Group:0]: 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000
Loop[12][Dram:1][Group:0]: 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000
Loop[13][Dram:1][Group:0]: 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000
Loop[14][Dram:1][Group:0]: 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000
Loop[15][Dram:1][Group:0]: 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 (ERROR)CDramConfig::dramCalReceive: calDramAlignEdge returned ERROR
Rrequired 5.3 seconds
   \|/  Arc Load/Diag.....CHugh::slProvisionMainAcquisitionMemory: arcFastDramDiag failed: ARC_LPU_RSP_DIAG_ERR
CHugh::slProvisionMainAcquisitionMemory: arcFastDramDiag test failed
triplet[0] = { 0x01000008, 0x00000001, 0x0000ff00 }
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Error: main acquisition memory provisioning (67108864) failed
Warning: acquisitions can not succeed!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
required 0.8 seconds
    /1\  PLL Calibration...required 0.1 seconds
   |\./| MCA Calibration...loading values from nvram...required 0.0 seconds
    \|/  Arc Load/Diag.....required 0.7 seconds
     /0\  PLL Calibration...required 0.1 seconds
    |\./| MCA Calibration...loading values from nvram...required 0.0 seconds
     \|/  Arc Load/Diag.....required 0.6 seconds
ICC reset  -/---\-|-/---\-|-/---\> Complete
Borg is ready  (1.25 seconds)
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