EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: rfdave#gmail.com on February 20, 2014, 04:40:16 am
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Does anyone have any thoughts on the Tektronix TM modular test equipment? They seem pretty handy and useful if you can find the modules you need.
Dave
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These are all I have on Tek TM500 families, a TM-503 3 slots power module, equipped with 2 Mhz FG FG-501A and 50 Mhz pulse-gen PG-508.
So far I can say is they are still spot on when I powered it on at the 1st time, the signal accuracy is amazing considering they are > 30 years old. :-+
Maybe this is what those old farts say :-DD, these stuffs are aged and cooked long enough that they don't drift anymore ? :-//
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/what_s-your-functionarbitrary-waveform-generator/?action=dlattach;attach=77944;image)
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Here's mine I love them.
2 4.5 digit .05%dmms not auto ranging but meh
2 20 volt +/- current adjustable power supplies with tracking plus 5 volts fixed
11 MHz function generator
100 MHz counter/timer
Used to drool over a setup one of my grandfathers friends had like this when I was a kid.
The first picture is how I bought it from eBay.
The second is with the frequency counter I bought to add to it.
The third picture is showing the function generator set at 1KHz feeding into the frequency counter.
The fourth is one power supply set at 5 volts feeding one of the dmms.
The fifth one is the other power supply set at 12 volts.
The pictures don't do it justice all of it is like brand new the original plastic shipping sleeve covering the handle is still there even.
If I remember right I gave around $300 US for the whole deal but I waited and looked and looked till I found one with most of the exact modules I wanted.
But if you can afford it I would try to find an tm5000 series as the modules are a little better and a bit more modern compared to the tm500 series.
Go here it will tell you about every tm500 and tm5000 series module made as far as I can tell.http://www.barrytech.com/tektronix/tektm500/tektm500.html (http://www.barrytech.com/tektronix/tektm500/tektm500.html)
The 500 series modules will work in the 5000 series power bay but the 5000 series modules wont work in the 500 power bay so if you buy a piece at a time I would get a tm5000 series power bay.
@BravoV
So far I can say is they are still spot on when I powered it on at the 1st time, the signal accuracy is amazing considering they are > 30 years old. :-+
Mine where pretty much spot on to.
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I have two TM504 power modules. One has a DC503A 100Mhz counter, FG504 40Mhz function generator, and PS503A 20V 1A dual power supply. The other has a distortion test set composed of an AA501 distortion analyzer and a pair of SG505 low distortion sine generators (WR and WQ versions). They are all built like tanks and have worked very reliably. I have the counter patched to the sync out on the function generator to have a digital readout of the operating frequency. The power modules allow you to do rear board interconnects between units to move signals around without unsightly patch cables. :)
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They're very handy to have. There are lots of modules available so you can built up a compact test set for whatever your interest is, be it audio, equipment repair or general use.
I have a TM504 with a freq counter, 250MHz leveled sine generator, pulse generator and a differential amp.
The frames are inexpensive although some of the modules can be pretty pricey.
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I have a TM503, but I agree with ahnuts72 that the TM5000 mainframes would be a better choice. Not only do you have your choice of TM500 and TM5000 modules, the TM5000 has GPIB for control of TM5000 modules.
I have a FG504 func gen, DC503A counter, and AM503 current probe amp. My TM503 runs really hot, and I know it's the FG504, but be careful what you stack on top of any TM500. It's probably better not to put anything on top. The TM5000 is fan cooled.
Like commongrounder, I have my counter patched to the back of the func gen so I can see the exact frequency being output. You'll also find there's signals available on the back connector that aren't on the front panel, for example a PLL error signal output on the FG504 to do FM demod.
As far as reliability goes, it's been great except for the FG504 which has had numerous electrical and mechanical problems over the years. Every time it breaks I think it's time to toss it, but it's always been easy to fix and parts have not been a problem.
Good bargains can be found on ebay. Set up a search for modules you want and be patient.
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The TM frames and plug-ins are very good. If you are patient and cruise EBay you can find good deals. I bought a TM506 primarily for audio work and includes 6 modules plus the main frame all for under $100 which is unheard of for that price. Everything works. Those plug-ins should not be under estimated in their quality & performance. The ultra low distortion audio osc. has something like .003 or better distortion.... possibly .008%! The DMM module is accurate at least very close to that of my Datron lab meter. Below is my setup:
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24/mars-man/TM506_zps909a1995.jpg) (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/mars-man/media/TM506_zps909a1995.jpg.html)
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They're sounding pretty good. I spend some time poking around on ebay, and the 500 series modules are definitely cheaper than the few 5000 series modules right now, so I might start with a 500 module.
How to you run things on the back panel? Is it switch configurable, or do I need to take things apart?
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The second is with the frequency counter I bought to add to it.
Damn, I'm so jealous, not for the counter, but that beast above it that has popular codename "BrightEye" display ;), one of my dream machine. :'(
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How to you run things on the back panel? Is it switch configurable, or do I need to take things apart?
You need to take it apart and run your own jumpers. There are solder pads for each contact on each edge connector, if I recall correctly.
There's a section in the service manual that has recommendations on how to do the internal wiring.
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They're sounding pretty good. I spend some time poking around on ebay, and the 500 series modules are definitely cheaper than the few 5000 series modules right now, so I might start with a 500 module.
I would suggest again whatever you decide on get a tm5006 mainframe even if you buy it buy itself and add 500 series modules a few at a time so you will be able to use 5000 series plugins in the future.
I've seen an empty bay go for around $150 US pretty regular.
One other thing I am surprised no one else has mentioned it is you really should set your country flag in your profile it helps everyone give better info based on your location.
@BravoV
Yeah I love it low voltage power supply went poof :-BROKE a little while after I bought it but after replacing it everything is good again and for $350 US I'm not gonna complain about the power supply issue.
Now I just have to finish repairing the old one as a spare. |O
Sent from my CM11 Nook HD+
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The second is with the frequency counter I bought to add to it.
Damn, I'm so jealous, not for the counter, but that beast above it that has popular codename "BrightEye" display ;), one of my dream machine. :'(
Yes, me too. I love the 2467 with the micro-channel plate CRT. I remember purchasing two of them, brand new, for the lab I was working in 20+ years ago.
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Anybody has experience with repairs on these modules (parts availability, access, etc.)?
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Anybody has experience with repairs on these modules (parts availability, access, etc.)?
I've repaired my FG504 (it was quite a bargain on fleabay, together with some other modules in a TM506) twice. Both defects were high frequency PNP transistors, replaceable by modern SMT variants. If you have good failure hunting skills, the faults were easy to find (at least a scope and DMM required), finding replacement parts is a bit more difficult. Extensive lists of Tek part numbers to Mfr. part numbers exists, as long as no Tek custom chips are involved, you'll find modern replacement parts. Service manuals including schematics exist for many of the modules (check before buy).
Worse are mechanical components like scratchy pots and switches, if you can't clean them, you rarely get a replacement.
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Anybody has experience with repairs on these modules (parts availability, access, etc.)?
Except for major parts which are only likely to be physically damaged, replacements are not a problem.
Some of the denser plug-ins have stacked boards making maintenance more difficult.
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Thanks!
Another question, how is the fan noise level? Any big difference between the 500 and 5000 series?
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Another question, how is the noise level? Any big difference between the 500 and 5000 series?
Noise level of what? Electrical noise? Fan noise?
I only have TM504, TM503, and TM501 mainframes which have no fans so they are completely quiet. Electrically they perform as well or better than stand alone instruments because Tektronix took advantage of floating circuits and single point grounds.
The people over at TekScopes@yahoogroups.com know more about the fan noise but old posts say the TM515 has a loud annoying fan and the other fans are only noisy when the bearings are bad.
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Thanks David!
I updated the question, i did mean the "fan" noise. The larger mainframes (like the TM5006) seems to have a pretty large fan?
The fan of my Rigol DP832, drives me nuts (need to fix it).
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Thanks David!
I updated the question, i did mean the "fan" noise. The larger mainframes (like the TM5006) seems to have a pretty large fan?
The fan of my Rigol DP832, drives me nuts (need to fix it).
A large fan by itself does not make it noisy. I find the whine of small fans which must operate at higher RPM to be the most annoying.
I suspect only the TM515 and maybe TM506 are objectionably loud and the others are only noisy if their bearings are worn out. The fans are easy enough to replace or even repair.
The smallest units with a fan are the TM504A and TM5003. The original TM504 has no fan but the very rare TM504A does.
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I picked up 2 truck loads of gear lately , small P/U and need to get a place to put together my bench , so I can dig more into what I have & what works , I've lucky , have several sources of used gear .
Several problems though , I live full time in a Airstream trailer , so can not really setup a good bench .
The sources are dwindling .
And I got into ham radio about 10 yrs. which got me to these sources and the interest in putting together a bench .
One of the 1st sources was another ham that did scrapping , and I was at the beginning of ham radio / electrical repair , so destroyed lots of stuff before I know what was what , bummer ;(
I could have lots of spares , but like this last load of stuff so little space , that I had to spend a few days and pick what was obviously damaged and no response to plugging in and scrap to keep what may be good .
There was maybe 20+ plugins , a single bay , and multi bay , only part of the goodies .
One of these days
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Anybody has experience with repairs on these modules (parts availability, access, etc.)?
I have repaired or serviced many modules. Very easy to work on the single bay modules. You might need and extender if you cannot access what you need from the sides or top.
The two bay wide modules are more cramped, but generally not than as. The SC504 (80MHz two channel scope) is one of my favorites, but this one is harder to work on, as everything is very tightly packed.
The FG504 is also an awesome module, 40Mhz sweep enabled analog (not DDS) function generator. It even has PLL to lock to input signals for syncing different sources.
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Noise wise the 5006 is indeed quite noisy, especially if you compare it with the silent TM504. It has a pretty loud fan and makes a lot of wind noise. It does keep the modules nice and cool, though. I would calibrate the modules in whatever mainframe you plan on using them in. The temperature difference between a TM5006 and TM504, both of which I have, is fairly substantial.
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Also have a few. A TM502A with newer TG501 - AM503B and a TM504 with more mainstream stuff.
Older DC504 / DM503 and a crappy FG 503. Handy on the bench.
Also have an SG502, but the dual potmeter is broken :(
Dual 10k lin, 360 degrees without endstop. Vishhay Model 100 series; 100B2103103B01,
Spectrol 100-9625, 2x 10k lin 3% with 0.5% lin. Tek number 311-1502-00
Anyone? :)
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Several problems though , I live full time in a Airstream trailer , so can not really setup a good bench.
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This is an ideal situation for TM500 instruments since they can be reconfigured to provide the needed functions in a minimum of space.
I have repaired or serviced many modules. Very easy to work on the single bay modules. You might need and extender if you cannot access what you need from the sides or top.
I do not have an extender so I use a TM501 or TM503 with the cover removed to access a plug-in module while it is operating.
The two bay wide modules are more cramped, but generally not than as. The SC504 (80MHz two channel scope) is one of my favorites, but this one is harder to work on, as everything is very tightly packed.
Some of the single bay wide modules are difficult to access like the hot running DC505 which has two full length boards and the DM501A which has a daughter board soldered onto the main board.
The FG504 is also an awesome module, 40Mhz sweep enabled analog (not DDS) function generator. It even has PLL to lock to input signals for syncing different sources.
The various TM500 signal generators are very useful and even more so in combination. For instance one function generator can be used to sweep another. Combine that with a 2236, 2236A, 2247A, or 2252 oscilloscope and you have a network analyser with high resolution frequency readout.
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I do not have an extender so I use a TM501 or TM503 with the cover removed to access a plug-in module while it is operating.
Great tip, will have to try this. Have a TG501 that needs some work and didn't want to go the extender route while working on it.
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I do not have an extender so I use a TM501 or TM503 with the cover removed to access a plug-in module while it is operating.
Great tip, will have to try this. Have a TG501 that needs some work and didn't want to go the extender route while working on it.
This is how I do it, too, but I don't think you can access the bottom of plugins this way, or am I remembering wrong? Also, sometimes things right near the bottom of the unit cannot be easily reached due to the large lip on the TM501. The middle, or opposite side slot of a TM503/504 should mitigate that issue, though. But don't expect to get just a TM501 and be able to reach everywhere on a single width module.
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I do not have an extender so I use a TM501 or TM503 with the cover removed to access a plug-in module while it is operating.
Great tip, will have to try this. Have a TG501 that needs some work and didn't want to go the extender route while working on it.
This is how I do it, too, but I don't think you can access the bottom of plugins this way, or am I remembering wrong? Also, sometimes things right near the bottom of the unit cannot be easily reached due to the large lip on the TM501. The middle, or opposite side slot of a TM503/504 should mitigate that issue, though. But don't expect to get just a TM501 and be able to reach everywhere on a single width module.
That is definitely a problem with the TM501 when used this way which is why I mentioned the TM503. Someone on the TekScopes@yahoogroups.com email list cut up their TM501 to get better access.
The TM500 connector and form factor is the same one used for the 5000 series mainframe oscilloscopes and the Jamma Fingerboard JB-3 (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:HjD233EAdVkJ:www.jammaboards.com/tektronix/+&cd=11&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us) is also identical so that is a source for parts to make extenders.
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If you are looking to pick up some of these modules and you are a little picky about cosmetic condition, keep an eye out for broken plastics. The corners around the face of the module seem to be fragile and are sometimes missing, but they are not obvious unless you are looking for it. Also the tabs that lock the modules into the cabinet are sometimes broken / missing. I have seen some homemade replacements available on eBay, they are functional but they don't really look original. And finally, the rotary plastic tabs that hold the metal side panels in place can be broken and wont hold the side panel in place as the manufacturer intended.
-bob
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I replaced the fans in my TM5006's and TM5003's with some quiet DC fans. Makes quite a bit of difference. The main faults you encounter with the modules are bad dipped tantalum caps and bad 741 op-amps in the power supply circuitry. Also bad incandescent indicator lamps (replace with LED+resistor).
I made some extender cables for the TM50x modules and also an assembled cable for the TM5000 GPIB connector. At the time the cheapest TM5xx extender cables on Ebay were $150 to $300 each! Jammaboards sold a reasonably priced kit, but that required soldering 56 individual wires.
My cables use two 40 pin ribbon cables (IDE disk drive) cables to connect between two circuit boards (power and ground signals use multiple conductors). I still have some extender cable kits available. They run $20 each plus shipping. PM me if interested.
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How about US/EU voltage? I saw a few pictures (mainframe backside) with cables that had a US plug (cable seems to be fixed).
1. Anyway if you buy from US you can hook it up here in the EU?
2. Are the modules interchangeable (work on both 120/220) ?
Thanks!
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How about US/EU voltage? I saw a few pictures (mainframe backside) with cables that had a US plug (cable seems to be fixed).
1. Anyway if you buy from US you can hook it up here in the EU?
The older ones have fixed power cords so the end would need to be changed to use an EU power socket. I think the newer ones have a standard IEC connector on the back.
2. Are the modules interchangeable (work on both 120/220) ?
Yes, the transformers have dual primaries and can be set for 120 or 240. They also have a bunch of taps. So the TM504 for instance supports 100/110/120/200/220/240 volts and 48 to 60 Hz.
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How about US/EU voltage? I saw a few pictures (mainframe backside) with cables that had a US plug (cable seems to be fixed).
1. Anyway if you buy from US you can hook it up here in the EU?
2. Are the modules interchangeable (work on both 120/220) ?
Thanks!
Most are dual voltage, but not all. Some early serial numbers for some mainframes are not dual voltage. The user manuals for have information about which serial numbers have a universal transformer, and how to switch voltages for such mainframes.
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For interest of those owning/purchasing one of the TM500 frames, I replaced the 3 large power caps in my TM-503. I noticed they were all getting pretty hot especially the one in the clip.
I found a replacement for the one mounted in the clip which was the same diameter, so mounted back in the clip. The two PCB mounted ones have a few holes; i was able fit these replacements flush to the PCB without having to drill new holes. Pretty easy job.
Here are the caps i used:
Nichicon 4,700uF 50V, part no: LGY1H472MELA35
Nichicon 22,000uF 16V, part no: LGY1C223MELC30
£10 for all 3 from Digikey.
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Here's my stock:
Mainframe, 4 slot TM504
Mainframe, 4 slot TM504
Mainframe, 3 slot TM503
Mainframe, 1 slot TM501
Extender for TM500-Series 097-0645-02
Power Supply, Precision PS501-1
Power Supply, Dual PS503A
Generator, Pulse, 50MHz; dual Output PG507
Generator, Function, 40MHz FG504
Generator, Leveled Sine; 0.05...250MHz SG503
Counter/Timer, universal 125MHz 8Digit DC503A
Delay, Digital DD501
Latch, Digital DL502
Multimeter, Digital; 4.5Digit RMS DM501A
Amplifier, Operation AM501
Amplifier, Differential AM502
Amplifier, Current Probe AM503
An important thing to know is that Tek series 5000 plugins are totally well usable instead of the empty TM500 plugins - they are available at very low prices and you only need the PCB and a new panel.
Besides hunting for more plugins, I am now looking at building some special devices using this system.
For example, a fast power buffer to raise FG/PG outputs. I think that this is one of the main advantages of this system.
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The only point of building a custom plugin would be to interconnect to multiple standard plugins. Apart from that ability, the mechanical design is mediocre, the electrical design is sub-standard (some of that was fixed in the TM-5000), and the parts are fragile and rare. Also all I/O must be on the usually very cramped front panel (unless you use the custom wiring on the back).
I am not saying the plugins are bad; I like and use some of them myself. But in the days of cheap power supplies and displays (the things they envisioned sharing), it seems very restrictive to design a new instrument in there.
If you are using the custom wiring, you should install keys that prevent you from e.g. connecting two pulse generators outputs together by fitting a generator where a counter plugin should be.
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Here's my stock:
Mainframe, 4 slot TM504
Mainframe, 4 slot TM504
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Nice collection. I got into that series this year. I got two 4 bay TM500 chassis full of the usual suspects like the voltmeters and Freq. counters ... fixed several too. If you want to get into repairing them get a JAMA flexible extender off Ebay. It's meant for video game machine repair but works OK for these systems.
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If you want to get into repairing them get a JAMA flexible extender off Ebay. It's meant for video game machine repair but works OK for these systems.
Alas, Jamma seems to be shut down. Their web site has been offline or saying "check back soon" for over a year. Too bad... I was getting my edge connectors from them.
The problem with the Jamma kits was the need to solder 56 individual wires... which tended to break rather regularly with use. At one time they were the only game in town except for $150-$300 ones on Ebay. So, I built my own...
I still have some of my TM500/5000 extender cable kits available. They use two 40 pin ribbon cables to interconnect two PCBs (power connections use two wires). I also have some TM5000 GPIB extender cables. PM me if interested. Costs run $20/kit plus shipping ($7 for any quantity in the US). They come with a couple of IDE cables, but you can build your own cables for whatever length you want.
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Not to worry they are still on Ebay. Note that if you want the black / red wires at the bottom where the pin numbering starts they are bridged and you need to cut the traces but that is the only issue. :)
JAMA extender (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Full-Jamma-Extender-Harness-for-your-current-JAMMA-boards-with-coin-all-56-pins-/231053334861?epid=1208073440&hash=item35cbda194d:g:o7EAAOxyN05Tlz0w)
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/o7EAAOxyN05Tlz0w/s-l400.jpg)
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Here's the version that I built...
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outstanding thread
they sent men to the moon with lesser gear
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JAMA extender (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Full-Jamma-Extender-Harness-for-your-current-JAMMA-boards-with-coin-all-56-pins-/231053334861?epid=1208073440&hash=item35cbda194d:g:o7EAAOxyN05Tlz0w)
33$ shipping + taxes? really? talk about greedy
http://www.ebay.com/itm/all-56-pins-Full-Jamma-Extender-Harness-for-your-current-JAMMA-boards-with-coin/401292561647?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D44770%26meid%3D1de53480b40845cf8e85d3672c7df213%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D231053334861 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/all-56-pins-Full-Jamma-Extender-Harness-for-your-current-JAMMA-boards-with-coin/401292561647?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D44770%26meid%3D1de53480b40845cf8e85d3672c7df213%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D231053334861)
BTW i promised myself no new gear this month (i want my 30 days chip), it's getting somewhat difficult :-DD
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Errr....my extender is flexible, although not Jammaboard, but Tek.
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Guido,
I just saw your request for the dual potmeter.
If you still need one, I have two brand new ones I can sell.
Contact me if you're still interested.
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Has anyone except me noted that the Tek document 'Physical Measurements Handbook', which is incidentally available on TekWiki lists a lot of third-party plugins that did not make their way into the TekWiki list?
It also lists Tek-issued build-it-yourself documents (AX-3xxx series on p.86) which should be interesting.
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Has anyone except me noted that the Tek document 'Physical Measurements Handbook', which is incidentally available on TekWiki lists a lot of third-party plugins that did not make their way into the TekWiki list?
It also lists Tek-issued build-it-yourself documents (AX-3xxx series on p.86) which should be interesting.
I didn't realize that... now I know what I will be reading this evening. ;D
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One info regarding the small auxiliary signal jacks (like shaped pulse and trigger level outputs on the DC503A):
if the unobtainium Tek cable is missing, MIL #22D crimp pins are a good fit.
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Over here, one guy on Ebay sold TM500 proto boards for some time, which were even improved in some way.
They had a routing/interrupting/paralleling area like a VG extender board, generous ground planes and a large raster area. Also, they were very well made, with vias and pads withstanding multiple soldering cycles and the edge connector dimensions totally to spec. Unfortunately, his stock seems to be empty.
Maybe we can convince one of the TM500 aficionados who has a knack for PCBs to provide us with a similar, free layout sometimes?
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Over here, one guy on Ebay sold TM500 proto boards for some time, which were even improved in some way.
They had a routing/interrupting/paralleling area like a VG extender board, generous ground planes and a large raster area. Also, they were very well made, with vias and pads withstanding multiple soldering cycles and the edge connector dimensions totally to spec. Unfortunately, his stock seems to be empty.
Maybe we can convince one of the TM500 aficionados who has a knack for PCBs to provide us with a similar, free layout sometimes?
What would the feature set include?
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@WCH: that PM was referring to the post before that one.
As concerning the feature set: I do not know because I do not do layouts, so I cannot set tasks for someone who just wants to help us. I personally would be content to ensure the continued availability of the abovementioned proto-board.
The guy that sold them will not provide new ones, if I understood him correctly. I will try to photograph it.
To achieve the same degree of usability, anyone would have to spec the PCB accordingly along with the layout.
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Got it... sorry for the confusion. There's a guy on the TM500 groups.io list that has a pretty nice extender kit. Not terribly expensive. I don't know if he is still making them, though. Anyone want me to send him and email and find out?
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Got it... sorry for the confusion. There's a guy on the TM500 groups.io list that has a pretty nice extender kit. Not terribly expensive. I don't know if he is still making them, though. Anyone want me to send him and email and find out?
I snagged an original Tek extender, so this is not my problem. And I would ask Texaspyro first, as his is also good for the TM5000. I am looking for proto boards rather for experimental and build-to-purpose usage.
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UPDATE!
I just bought TM500/TM5000 proto boards from a seller on Ebay Kleinanzeigen.
Multiple Boards available! I paid 52.- for two boards. Known persons from US/UK can be helped.
The boards in ENIG (Electroless Nickel Immersion Gold) technology even have labeled terminal areas for TM500 (front) and TM5000 (rear) contact allocations. Size is 229mm * 113mm.
See also here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg3819899/#msg3819899 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg3819899/#msg3819899)