Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 8521139 times)

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Offline tautech

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111950 on: January 23, 2022, 06:29:10 am »

So then it just me and my apprentice had to tackle the job over the next few months between us, and we uncovered many horrors along the way, lead cables, ...

Lead cables? Well I had never heard of that before. Can you describe these a little more if you remember? So heavy - how were they encased?

In Australia you used to get lead sheathed telephone cables.
Paper wrapped conductors (IIRC) inside a lead tube. Always interesting to come across in older homes, the inner conductors were still copper so it was the usual story for terminations.
We had those dry core paper wrapped cables in small towns in NZ some 40 years back and well remember a lightening strike very close to where I worked at the time on a phone pole just 40 yds away. Furk it went with a BANG !
Stuffed the shop phone and the alarm dialer and a good chunk of the lead outer dry core paper insulated telecom cable.
Looked at a section they cut out which had little arc holes in the paper all over. IIRC it was a 100 pair cable and it was a few days before we had a business phone again.
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Offline WastelandTek

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111951 on: January 23, 2022, 07:14:43 am »
Does anyone have an HP 3586 that would be willing to make a simple mechanical measurement for me?

The AF knob on this one was sheared off flush, pallet rash I presume.  I was able to replicate the necessary features on a fresh bit of 1/8" brass rod in the machine shop and got the pot working, but I don't know how far the shaft should protrude out past the pot body.  The standard shaft length for these size pots is 7/8"...but that seems quite long to me as I look at it.
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Offline TERRA Operative

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111952 on: January 23, 2022, 08:23:10 am »
WINNER WINNER, CHICKEN DINNER!  :clap:


I decided to call it a night at 4am after losing colour across multiple CRT's/Shutters, CRT driver boards and main processor boards.
Came back today, put it together and it works! I must have forgotten something in my bleary eyed, 4am daze, but I can't remember what....  :-DD

Now to run it through a few SPC self calibration procedures to check it doesn't fail and maybe update the firmware if the later 784D firmware will work. (It'll stay as a 754D for now, but firmware is common depending on board revisions. It's easy to flash and try and flash back if no-go, just time consuming).

Aannd, TDS784D firmware version 7.4e (the latest I've found so far) works fine as expected. Scope and Tekwiki updated accordingly. :)
Where does all this test equipment keep coming from?!?

https://www.youtube.com/user/NearFarMedia/
 
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Offline VK5RC

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111953 on: January 23, 2022, 08:48:21 am »
Does anyone have an HP 3586 that would be willing to make a simple mechanical measurement for me?

The AF knob on this one was sheared off flush, pallet rash I presume.  I was able to replicate the necessary features on a fresh bit of 1/8" brass rod in the machine shop and got the pot working, but I don't know how far the shaft should protrude out past the pot body.  The standard shaft length for these size pots is 7/8"...but that seems quite long to me as I look at it.
I have one at home (i think the A model) and happy to measure but won't get there for 48hrs or so,
Rob
Whoah! Watch where that landed we might need it later.
 
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Offline WastelandTek

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111954 on: January 23, 2022, 08:55:37 am »
Does anyone have an HP 3586 that would be willing to make a simple mechanical measurement for me?

The AF knob on this one was sheared off flush, pallet rash I presume.  I was able to replicate the necessary features on a fresh bit of 1/8" brass rod in the machine shop and got the pot working, but I don't know how far the shaft should protrude out past the pot body.  The standard shaft length for these size pots is 7/8"...but that seems quite long to me as I look at it.
I have one at home (i think the A model) and happy to measure but won't get there for 48hrs or so,
Rob

That would be great!  thanks.
I'm new here, but I tend to be pretty gregarious, so if I'm out of my lane please call me out.
 

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111955 on: January 23, 2022, 09:48:13 am »
PS: Linux I soon I will be there...

An example of why I know I'm not clever enough to run Windoze...

https://hackaday.com/2022/01/22/zhengbang-pick-places-your-confidential-data-in-the-bag-slowly/
Quote
[Richard] from [RM Cybernetics] has purchased a ZhengBang ZB3245TSS [pick and place] machine, and in the process of setting it up, dutifully backed up its software onto a USB stick – as we all ought to.
...
After static and dynamic analysis done by a third party, the malware was confirmed to collect metadata accessible to the machine and send it all to a third-party server. Having contacted ZhengBang about this mishap, they received a letter with assurances that the files were harmless, and a .zip attachment with replacement “clean” files which didn’t fail the antivirus checks.
...
It didn’t end here! After installing the “clean” files, they also ran a few anti-malware tools, and all seemed fine. Then, they plugged the flash drive into another computer again… to encounter even more alerts than before. The malware was equipped with a mechanism to grace every accessible .exe with a copy of itself on sight, infecting even .exe‘s of the anti-malware tools they put on that USB drive...
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111956 on: January 23, 2022, 09:50:35 am »
:wtf: You're telling me that a Duplex is what we call a twin socket, but unlike our twin sockets which the incoming supply is shared to both outlets via busbars so that means both outlets are connected to the same breaker, that yours are not made with common connections?  :palm: That is a nasty accident just waiting to happen for sure  :scared:

   
Ehhhh... that's a wiring convention over here. Duplex outlets are made so that you can break out the bus connections between the two halves; the intent being that the top outlet can be reserved for a floor lamp across the room to be switched at the doorway. In principle, not a bad idea if done correctly.

 This is usually done by breaking only the hot bus bar out in cases where the power comes from the box with the receptacle. A single run of 12/2 to the switch then is all that's required to put the switch in circuit; but it does mean that you have a white wire carrying hot to the switch. Over here convention is to look for a switch whenever you see that; real sticklers (like old man Arcangeli) will tag these white-carrying-hot wires with colored tape or uniquely numbered wiring tags. Another "correct" approach would be to use 12/3 and deadhead the unused neutral wire; I've seen that like 3 times in my entire life. :o

<SNIP>

We have proper cable for that. Two phase colours and an earth.
 
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Online AVGresponding

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111957 on: January 23, 2022, 09:54:09 am »
:wtf: You're telling me that a Duplex is what we call a twin socket, but unlike our twin sockets which the incoming supply is shared to both outlets via busbars so that means both outlets are connected to the same breaker, that yours are not made with common connections?  :palm: That is a nasty accident just waiting to happen for sure  :scared:

   
Ehhhh... that's a wiring convention over here. Duplex outlets are made so that you can break out the bus connections between the two halves; the intent being that the top outlet can be reserved for a floor lamp across the room to be switched at the doorway. In principle, not a bad idea if done correctly.

 This is usually done by breaking only the hot bus bar out in cases where the power comes from the box with the receptacle. A single run of 12/2 to the switch then is all that's required to put the switch in circuit; but it does mean that you have a white wire carrying hot to the switch. Over here convention is to look for a switch whenever you see that; real sticklers (like old man Arcangeli) will tag these white-carrying-hot wires with colored tape or uniquely numbered wiring tags. Another "correct" approach would be to use 12/3 and deadhead the unused neutral wire; I've seen that like 3 times in my entire life. :o

<SNIP>

We have proper cable for that. Two phase colours and an earth.

We do, but it's rare to see it used. It's cheaper to use normal T+E and brown sleeving.
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Online Brumby

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111958 on: January 23, 2022, 10:08:41 am »
It's amazing what you hear - even when you aren't listening.....

Nevertheless, I just had to know what the scope was - so I tracked down the show and registered for the TV station's online service so I could see the show ... and I was able to get this shot of the scope:


Wow cool but... do you mean you PAID to get access to that show just to see the scope ?!  :scared:
You must be rich !  ;D
No $$$ were dispensed.  The only payment is my time in dealing with the emails ... which have already started.  They just want to add you to their mailing list.

Quote
So what kind of show was it then ?
The kind of show where people have to guess the price of items, and the guy that's closest to the price wins something ??
Or maybe the kind of show where people bring their old stuff and a panel of antique dealers bid on it and the guy makes some money this way ?

Do tell... you wet our appetite now... you can't let us down...
You really want to know?

The show is a hotch-potch of various segments, with the segment of "interest" being a quiz show format.
 The scope was just one of 3 random items (that were previously won by someone) which the sponsor - an auction house - had listed.  The other two were a rack of teaspoons and an 80's portable radio cassette.

Here's a shot from the segment that featured showed the scope:


If that doesn't warn you off, here's a link:  https://7plus.com.au/the-underdogs-show?episode-id=BPTU01-002&overlay=sign-in

Seriously lame stuff - but what would you expect from a show they put on between 1:30am and 2:30am.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2022, 10:21:43 am by Brumby »
 
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111959 on: January 23, 2022, 11:34:44 am »
It's amazing what you hear - even when you aren't listening.....


I was up late last night, fettling at my desk with the TV providing some noise.  There was some nondescript show on and I ignore these types of show with the appropriate amount of apathy for the "quality" of programming that they offer.  Ask me later what the show was about and I would likely respond with "What show?"

However, completely engrossed in what I was poking around, my attention was immediately grabbed by the phrase "1972 Oscilloscope" which clearly penetrated my bubble of indifference to the outside world.  I quickly hopped up to see what this device could be only to see it for less than half a second.  As I watched, they never went back to it.

Nevertheless, I just had to know what the scope was - so I tracked down the show and registered for the TV station's online service so I could see the show ... and I was able to get this shot of the scope:



I can't remember EVER seeing an oscilloscope featured on TV before - for it's own sake.  Yes, lots of times as set decoration, but never like this.
Well then, are you going to spill the beans about the station name and program name?
Who let Murphy in?

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Offline McBryce

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111960 on: January 23, 2022, 12:16:02 pm »
Another extreme case of "Would it really have been too much trouble to clean it first?": https://www.ebay.de/itm/325010537885

McBryce.
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Online Brumby

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111961 on: January 23, 2022, 12:32:31 pm »
Well then, are you going to spill the beans about the station name and program name?
See my post immediately before yours.


But, seriously, it is not worth the effort.  It was just a random lot from an auction house.  It could have been a miniature sewing machine or a camping stove.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2022, 12:48:05 pm by Brumby »
 
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Online Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111962 on: January 23, 2022, 12:38:16 pm »
WINNER WINNER, CHICKEN DINNER!  :clap:

I decided to call it a night at 4am after losing colour across multiple CRT's/Shutters, CRT driver boards and main processor boards.
Came back today, put it together and it works! I must have forgotten something in my bleary eyed, 4am daze, but I can't remember what....  :-DD


Ah great !  :-+

Had a similar moment when I fixed my 544A I remember... I had it fixed,working... then I put it back together and it failed to boot !  :scared:

After pulling my hair and being close to wanting to throw it in the trash... I eventually found the problem !
See that little " bus " board on the side of the scope, that connects the bottom and top boards together, to supply power and data lines ???
Well... turns out it is NOT keyed, it can be rotated 180° and it will still snap into place just fine !  :scared:

So yeah, I had put it back the wrong way around... luckily it did not cause any damage and the scope has been just fine for 5 years now ! :-+

« Last Edit: January 23, 2022, 12:43:27 pm by Vince »
 
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Online Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111963 on: January 23, 2022, 01:10:47 pm »
VARTA Battery :

I am sad to say that the poor battery did not survive the night.

IIRC I started discharging it at 2AM last night. I just woke up, 12H45, so about 10+ hours, immediately checked on the battery.... only to find voltage was down to.... 7 V ? No... well below that.... which is still a massive understatement.... voltage was down to....  0.8V !!  :scared:

Rob I am so sorry, I failed to protect this battery from under voltage.... I am a failure....

That said... even at 0.8V believe it or not, it was still spitting out a sizable current, 1mA !!  :o

After 5 minutes or so, battery recovered a bit and unloaded voltage went up to 2.5V.... which from memory was also the voltage it read after its 30 years of storage when I dug it out the other day !
So I guess this battery "likes" this particular voltage...  :-//

So what to do now...

First I would like to not over dramatize the fact that I let it go flat.... because it had already been flat for 30 years, so I probably didn't do any more damage than had already been done, eh ?

Also, the fact it was still putting out 1mA at only 0.8V means, to me at least, that it's a warrior, it wants to live...

So I think I will charge it again, using Wilson. Slow C/10 again.

Then will do another discharge cycle, but this time I will conduct the experiment during the day, so that I can keep an eye on it regularly, from beginning to end, and will take note of precise start time, and time stamp for every voltage and current check I do.

Would be easier if I could do it automagically with a GPIB setup and some clever S/W on a computer... but alas the lab is nowhere near as sophisticated for now ! It's my plan for it be, though...

Also, since I have plenty of real estate on the bread board, I could add a comparator chip and a little miniature relay to automatically disconnect the battery when it reaches a certain voltage threshold. That would be neat.

The saga continues....
« Last Edit: January 23, 2022, 01:23:35 pm by Vince »
 

Online BU508A

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111964 on: January 23, 2022, 01:21:07 pm »
It's amazing what you hear - even when you aren't listening.....


I was up late last night, fettling at my desk with the TV providing some noise.  There was some nondescript show on and I ignore these types of show with the appropriate amount of apathy for the "quality" of programming that they offer.  Ask me later what the show was about and I would likely respond with "What show?"

However, completely engrossed in what I was poking around, my attention was immediately grabbed by the phrase "1972 Oscilloscope" which clearly penetrated my bubble of indifference to the outside world.  I quickly hopped up to see what this device could be only to see it for less than half a second.  As I watched, they never went back to it.

Nevertheless, I just had to know what the scope was - so I tracked down the show and registered for the TV station's online service so I could see the show ... and I was able to get this shot of the scope:



I can't remember EVER seeing an oscilloscope featured on TV before - for it's own sake.  Yes, lots of times as set decoration, but never like this.
Well then, are you going to spill the beans about the station name and program name?

In Germany there is this TV show "Bares für Rares (cash for rares)" where someone offered a Tektronix 541A.
Apart from the expert, nobody really knew what to do with the device. In the end, it was sold for 100 euros.


From the left: Expert, host of the show, guy who wants to sell the Tek, Tektronix scope 541A
« Last Edit: January 23, 2022, 01:23:24 pm by BU508A »
“Chaos is found in greatest abundance wherever order is being sought. It always defeats order, because it is better organized.”            - Terry Pratchett -
 
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Offline mansaxel

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111965 on: January 23, 2022, 01:23:55 pm »

However, we also have another scenario called "split receptacle" to provide MOAR POWER ... !  (In a normal circuit, the total circuit can only supply 15A at 120V.)


And here, since most every feeder from the power company is 3-phase (I've seen flats/condos/apartments/Wohnungen in recent times with 1-phase supply, but that usually was in houses where there are three apartments to each staircase level, splitting the riser nicely), you always have to think about the possibility of having 405VAC between two phase conductors. And it is legal to pull them in same conduit, at least if all three phases are present, and the target is an outlet or junction box for a three-phase consumer. Or a two-phase one. Such things exist; a common example might be an induction stovetop.  It is then fed by 2 phase conductors, and a Neutral, and of course PE. In the more modern ones, I think they SMPS the 400V between the phases into Useful Current and then the resultant current in the neutral is 0; if you were to take the current as two 230V loads against neutral the neutral current of course is (and this is a simplified formula that works in just the pathological case of one phase completely unused; the more general formula is a bit more involved)

sqrt(2) * (currentphase1 + currentphase2)/2)

for 2x 10A giving 14,1 A neutral current.  A tricky trap, that. Solution is really easy; just add a consumer to third leg.   The problem grows tentacles and gets really out of hand if you have mains distortion, because not even with nominally balanced consumers the overtones are going to balance, heating the neutral badly. There has been some spectacular fires resulting from that.

I have a three-phase feeder to my stovetop / oven place in the kitchen, which is IIRC 5g1,5mm2, so I'll have to be careful. Most ovens are single-phase, and the induction tops are two-phase. I'd preferred them to be three-phase both; much easier load-balancing.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2022, 01:30:32 pm by mansaxel »
 
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Online Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111966 on: January 23, 2022, 01:32:55 pm »
In Germany there is this TV show "Bares für Rares (cash for rares)" where someone offered a Tektronix 541A.
Apart from the expert, nobody really knew what to do with the device. In the end, it was sold for 100 euros.



Wow that's cool ! The Tek is the star of the show (a segment of it anyway) and you can see it really well in the picture !  :D

I think it would be worth contacting VintageTek museum in the US so they can add it to their database ! They keep track of the old Tek scopes that appeared in moves and shows !  :D

Look here :

https://vintagetek.org/tektronix-in-movies-shows/



 
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Online BU508A

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111967 on: January 23, 2022, 01:43:19 pm »
In Germany there is this TV show "Bares für Rares (cash for rares)" where someone offered a Tektronix 541A.
Apart from the expert, nobody really knew what to do with the device. In the end, it was sold for 100 euros.



Wow that's cool ! The Tek is the star of the show (a segment of it anyway) and you can see it really well in the picture !  :D

I think it would be worth contacting VintageTek museum in the US so they can add it to their database ! They keep track of the old Tek scopes that appeared in moves and shows !  :D

Look here :

https://vintagetek.org/tektronix-in-movies-shows/

Done.  :-+
“Chaos is found in greatest abundance wherever order is being sought. It always defeats order, because it is better organized.”            - Terry Pratchett -
 
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Online Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111968 on: January 23, 2022, 02:40:42 pm »
VARTA Battery :

I am sad to say that the poor battery did not survive the night.

IIRC I started discharging it at 2AM last night. I just woke up, 12H45, so about 10+ hours, immediately checked on the battery.... only to find voltage was down to.... 7 V ? No... well below that.... which is still a massive understatement.... voltage was down to....  0.8V !!  :scared:

Rob I am so sorry, I failed to protect this battery from under voltage.... I am a failure....

That said... even at 0.8V believe it or not, it was still spitting out a sizable current, 1mA !!  :o

After 5 minutes or so, battery recovered a bit and unloaded voltage went up to 2.5V.... which from memory was also the voltage it read after its 30 years of storage when I dug it out the other day !
So I guess this battery "likes" this particular voltage...  :-//

So what to do now...

First I would like to not over dramatize the fact that I let it go flat.... because it had already been flat for 30 years, so I probably didn't do any more damage than had already been done, eh ?

Also, the fact it was still putting out 1mA at only 0.8V means, to me at least, that it's a warrior, it wants to live...

So I think I will charge it again, using Wilson. Slow C/10 again.

Then will do another discharge cycle, but this time I will conduct the experiment during the day, so that I can keep an eye on it regularly, from beginning to end, and will take note of precise start time, and time stamp for every voltage and current check I do.

Would be easier if I could do it automagically with a GPIB setup and some clever S/W on a computer... but alas the lab is nowhere near as sophisticated for now ! It's my plan for it be, though...

Also, since I have plenty of real estate on the bread board, I could add a comparator chip and a little miniature relay to automatically disconnect the battery when it reaches a certain voltage threshold. That would be neat.

The saga continues....


Oh, looks like the battery is recovering...  it's not stuck at 2.5 V no. Been disconnected for a couple hours now, and voltage is still climbing, now up to 4V.

hmmm.... maybe after a few charging cycles it will recover some health.... will keep at it !  8)

I will wait for voltage to stabilize before charging it again... don't want to brutalize it !  ;D

 

Offline TERRA Operative

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111969 on: January 23, 2022, 02:45:49 pm »
Ah great !  :-+

Had a similar moment when I fixed my 544A I remember... I had it fixed,working... then I put it back together and it failed to boot !  :scared:

After pulling my hair and being close to wanting to throw it in the trash... I eventually found the problem !
See that little " bus " board on the side of the scope, that connects the bottom and top boards together, to supply power and data lines ???
Well... turns out it is NOT keyed, it can be rotated 180° and it will still snap into place just fine !  :scared:

So yeah, I had put it back the wrong way around... luckily it did not cause any damage and the scope has been just fine for 5 years now ! :-+

Yep, I know exactly what you are talking about, and I won't say how I know, multiple times...........  :-DD |O


In related news, I realised I have enough TDS754D parts to essentially completely convert a TDS744A into the TDS754D (By swapping boards etc), so that I'll do. Get me more cash for more test gear when I sell it. :D
So I'll have on hand 3x TDS754D's, a TDS620B and my current crown jewel, a TDS784C.
I have most of the parts to convert the TDS620B into a TDS644A too, except the front panel and CRT (Got two CRT's but with faulty LCD shutter panels), so I'll leave that one for now.

In the words of a certain green anti-hero.....


« Last Edit: January 23, 2022, 02:53:11 pm by TERRA Operative »
Where does all this test equipment keep coming from?!?

https://www.youtube.com/user/NearFarMedia/
 
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Offline Martin Miranda

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111970 on: January 23, 2022, 03:01:12 pm »
not a test equipment. but long days ahead of repairing this gear. :palm:
« Last Edit: January 23, 2022, 03:09:28 pm by Martin Miranda »
beach, sun and the island i call home.
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Online Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111971 on: January 23, 2022, 03:03:48 pm »
@Terra Operative :

Oh no I will not stop you, to the contrary I want to ENCOURAGE you !  :-DD

Fix as many as possible, do every experiment you can on them, take notes of all your trouble shooting, upgrades, F/W, unlocking options, whatever can be done to these scopes.. then in 3 years write a BOOK to organize and present all that data nicely !

Will buy a copy of the book then I will be well armed when I am in the market to go hunt for my next TDS scope !  ;D



« Last Edit: January 23, 2022, 03:10:43 pm by Vince »
 
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Online mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111972 on: January 23, 2022, 03:06:34 pm »


mnem
The real bootstrapping conundrum: Somehow getting enough coffee in you that you can make coffee.
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Offline TERRA Operative

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111973 on: January 23, 2022, 03:07:14 pm »
Well Vince, if you ever come to Japan, I'll have a scope and a cup of sake waiting for you. :D
Where does all this test equipment keep coming from?!?

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Online Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #111974 on: January 23, 2022, 03:14:20 pm »
Thanks ! Unfortunately I can't fly as the economy seats are too narrow and closely spaced for me (and the unlucky people in front and beside me) to tolerate  more than 10 minutes of fllght ! :scared:

I once had to fly 45 minutes for work, and after only 10 minutes of flight I wanted to scream " gimme a fucking parachute I am out of here NOW !!! " :-DD

... a business class seat or a private jet might do it, but too expensive ! ;D

... or a slow boat maybe....



 


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