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Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

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med6753:

--- Quote from: tggzzz on June 02, 2018, 02:36:50 pm ---
--- Quote from: med6753 on June 02, 2018, 02:27:40 pm ---On the front panel I have everything pulled except the shaft for the Channel 2 variable pot. The allen key isn't long enough to reach down to the set screw so I'll have to be real careful when I pull the board out so as to not break that shaft.

--- End quote ---

Um, be careful. Get a longer allen key if bnecessary.


--- Quote ---Do the BNC's pull WITH the board or will I have to unsolder them?

--- End quote ---

You are RTFMing, aren't you? IIRC getting the BNCs out is best avoided.


--- Quote ---I assume the Vertical Mode switch board behind this board pull as one unit, correct?

--- End quote ---

Yes (unless I'm mentally confusing the 4x5 series, which is entirely possible).

If it is a bugger to get the mode buttons back in, then try popping out the small white plastic inserts so there is a larger hole. Pop the inserts back in after the board is in place.


--- Quote ---Right now I think it's 50/50 that I'll ever get this back together in one piece. But I'm not giving up.

--- End quote ---

Just follow your notes and photos.

--- End quote ---
.
I did RTFM and it's absolutely mute concerning the BNC's which is why I asked the question. So I ASSUME they remain fixed to the board but you know what happens when you assume which is why I asked. As far as the switch board I did initially miss the statement that it does pull with the vertical board.

Specmaster:

--- Quote from: med6753 on June 02, 2018, 03:12:46 pm ---.
I did RTFM and it's absolutely mute concerning the BNC's which is why I asked the question. So I ASSUME they remain fixed to the board but you know what happens when you assume which is why I asked. As far as the switch board I did initially miss the statement that it does pull with the vertical board.

--- End quote ---

All the scopes that I've pulled apart and rebuilt, the BNC's are affixed to the front panel and connected to the boards via a resistor which I unsoldered from the board/

mnementh:

--- Quote from: Mr. Scram on June 02, 2018, 08:26:24 am ---
--- Quote from: tggzzz on June 02, 2018, 08:22:40 am ---The "cost of your time" depends on the individual. Some are cash-rich time-poor, some are time-rich cash-poor.

The cost can also be negative, e.g. if repairing something allows you to learn something that is later valued by, say, a potential employer.

While I advise beginners against trying to repair scopes, I get irritated by people that claim that only DSOs should be considered and/or that DSOs are better in all respects. Neither is true.

--- End quote ---
In what regard are CROs better and why aren't companies capitalizing on that?

--- End quote ---

We've already seen a very simple, very clear example: finding a glitch in a waveform when you don't have any idea what you're looking for. With an analog scope, that initial diagnosis is as straightforward as adjusting the focus on a microscope, and more importantly, you don't have the question of whether what you see or don;t see is an artifact of the digital sampling process. This is why they are still often found in laboratory settings.

Companies that NEED them that ARE capitalizing on the fact; laboratory-grade CROs with traceable service history and calibration are still trading for serious money in those circles.

The difference is that a good CRO requires a high-quality CRT, which single part would cost more to manufacture today than a whole DSO, even a decent mid-range one.

The death of CROs has nothing to do with whether it is better or not; it has to do with what it costs to make a high-quality CRO vs a high-quality DSO that MAY OR MAY NOT be able to perform as well as a laboratory-grade CRO.

This, coupled with the fact that we now need to be able to troubleshoot digital signals more often than analog, results in the trade-off made for digital: you lose some absolute resolution, and you lose the simple, linear relationship between what you're measuring and what shows up on the screen to the exigencies of digital sampling. That doesn't mean high-quality CROs aren't able to PERFORM; in some cases they can STILL perform better and work better as a diagnostic tool.

Tektronix operated on a different business model than is expected in today's world of greed and multimillion-dollar management payscale; first, they produced bleeding-edge high-tech using the best materials obtainable at the time, BAR NONE. Second, they operated on approximately a 3:1 cost:profit ratio, while today's big business expects closer to a 10:1 ratio, and they do that by pushing as much of their cost onto the 3rd party overseas manufacturing. Third, they manufactured EVERYTHING here in the USA, using USA workforce and paying above-average wages to get the best-qualified workers and to KEEP THEM, as opposed to the current mantra of "reduce cost of workforce by ANY MEANS POSSIBLE", even if that means most of your work is done by incompetents and/or shipped overseas.

Of COURSE that model couldn't survive in THIS "Profit is the only thing that matters" society.   :palm:


mnem
The problem with capitalism in a nutshell: It's propagation model is that of a virus; which means that eventually it kills its host.


nixiefreqq:

--- Quote from: mnementh on June 02, 2018, 04:31:29 pm ---
--- Quote from: Mr. Scram on June 02, 2018, 08:26:24 am ---
--- Quote from: tggzzz on June 02, 2018, 08:22:40 am ---The "cost of your time" depends on the individual. Some are cash-rich time-poor, some are time-rich cash-poor.

The cost can also be negative, e.g. if repairing something allows you to learn something that is later valued by, say, a potential employer.

While I advise beginners against trying to repair scopes, I get irritated by people that claim that only DSOs should be considered and/or that DSOs are better in all respects. Neither is true.

--- End quote ---
In what regard are CROs better and why aren't companies capitalizing on that?

--- End quote ---

We've already seen a very simple, very clear example: finding a glitch in a waveform when you don't have any idea what you're looking for. With an analog scope, that initial diagnosis is as straightforward as adjusting the focus on a microscope, and more importantly, you don't have the question of whether what you see or don;t see is an artifact of the digital sampling process. This is why they are still often found in laboratory settings.

Companies that NEED them that ARE capitalizing on the fact; laboratory-grade CROs with traceable service history and calibration are still trading for serious money in those circles.

The difference is that a good CRO requires a high-quality CRT, which single part would cost more to manufacture today than a whole DSO, even a decent mid-range one.

The death of CROs has nothing to do with whether it is better or not; it has to do with what it costs to make a high-quality CRO vs a high-quality DSO that MAY OR MAY NOT be able to perform as well as a laboratory-grade CRO.

This, coupled with the fact that we now need to be able to troubleshoot digital signals more often than analog, results in the trade-off made for digital: you lose some absolute resolution, and you lose the simple, linear relationship between what you're measuring and what shows up on the screen to the exigencies of digital sampling. That doesn't mean high-quality CROs aren't able to PERFORM; in some cases they can STILL perform better and work better as a diagnostic tool.

Tektronix operated on a different business model than is expected in today's world of greed and multimillion-dollar management payscale; first, they produced bleeding-edge high-tech using the best materials obtainable at the time, BAR NONE. Second, they operated on approximately a 3:1 cost:profit ratio, while today's big business expects closer to a 10:1 ratio, and they do that by pushing as much of their cost onto the 3rd party overseas manufacturing. Third, they manufactured EVERYTHING here in the USA, using USA workforce and paying above-average wages to get the best-qualified workers and to KEEP THEM, as opposed to the current mantra of "reduce cost of workforce by ANY MEANS POSSIBLE", even if that means most of your work is done by incompetents and/or shipped overseas.

Of COURSE that model couldn't survive in THIS "Profit is the only thing that matters" society.   :palm:


mnem
The problem with capitalism in a nutshell: It's propagation model is that of a virus; which means that eventually it kills its host.

--- End quote ---


that's why milton friedman advocated for "enlightened self interest".

from Wikipedia:

Enlightened self-interest is a philosophy in ethics which states that persons who act to further the interests of others (or the interests of the group or groups to which they belong), ultimately serve their own self-interest.

It has often been simply expressed by the belief that an individual, group, or even a commercial entity will "do well by doing good"

 

greed is a good motivator, but you have to look at the big picture if the goal is long term sustainment.

BravoV:

--- Quote from: Specmaster on June 02, 2018, 02:27:56 pm ---Totally disagree, its not a weak argument, so your saying that Dave's advice is also flawed in the same way, he has done a series of scope videos showing how to connect them without blowing the arse out of them which is a typically a thing a beginner might do. I'm not saying that someone a bit more experienced wouldn't to, hell we can all screw up from time to time.
--- End quote ---

Still, are you saying when a noob that going to get their 1st scope, its the "right" way to get the cheap 10 or 20 bucks used analog scope 1st, not the new affordable DSO even they can afford it ? Learn, and once they blew it, thats for sure according to you, then buy the new DSO.

Thats fine if its what you believe is the right path.



--- Quote from: Specmaster on June 02, 2018, 02:27:56 pm ---I liken it to just passing your driving test and we all know that does not mean that your a safe driver at all, just means that on the day you reached the required standard for a pass. Once passed would rush off out and secure your that Aston Martin DB8 and probably kill yourself (assuming an insurance company would take you on with such little experience, or buy something more suitable first to gain experience and demonstrate to everyone that you can actually handle a car correctly and not be a hazard to others? That's probably not the best example but you should see the logic in it.

--- End quote ---

Here is quite different, once passed the driving test and got the license, for sure here I've seen there a lot of parents (not all though) bought their kids "NEW" affordable car like Korean or Japanese car, and some are even allowed them to drive the parent's expensive European car.

Also here we don't have Aston Martin at every house hold, I guess thats our fundamental different, just leave these and stop this argument as I don't see we both going to agree each other.

Call it a day, ok ? Peace.

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