Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 20249230 times)

Robert763 and 43 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline tautech

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 29810
  • Country: nz
  • Taupaki Technologies Ltd. Siglent Distributor NZ.
    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11600 on: June 03, 2018, 02:35:31 am »
mnementh
It's very true 'feature creep' or as I like to call it 'oneupmanship' has impacted immensely on the UI present in a modern DSO and all manufacturers are guilty of this to some degree.
On the other hand instead of owning multiple bits of equipment a modern DSO can offer a lot of additional functionality as part of the 'package' so instead of overloading the bench we have it all in a single unit. Manufacturers of both high and low end gear do it.
Of course with some gear it's just 'tick box' additions while with others this additional functionality is real and capable.
So while you might not agree new entry level DSO's are 'dirt cheap', once you factor in these newly added capabilities it changes the view on the 'old CRO vs new DSO' argument.

We could go on for weeks more than the few days we've done thus far but I'd like to round out with my comments on this topic are entirely based on what I've seen in my marketplace and I fully expect buyers into the future to become more and more aware of the 'added value' in modern instruments. In the US where a plethora of used gear is available the marketplace is very different.

This discussion we've had has gone on before in various threads over the years and could/should continue with its own new thread in the TE board where we'd hopefully get a better consensus and greater participation than just here in the TEA thread.
I won't start it as it'll only be seen as some sort of Siglent propaganda.  ::)

 
Avid Rabid Hobbyist.
Some stuff seen @ Siglent HQ cannot be shared.
 

Offline GerryBags

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 334
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11601 on: June 03, 2018, 02:38:29 am »
Bear in mind that for a good thirty years compact disc was king and vinyl had gone the way of the dodo, except that now the sales of vinyl are increasing dramatically, top acts are releasing stuff on vinyl again and even the lowly tape cassette has started to see some re-adopters. Take the comparison with the pinch of salt it requires, but it does demonstrate that a shift from digital back to analog, even after all the big names have abandoned a technology, can happen if enough customers make their desire for it known.
 

Offline tautech

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 29810
  • Country: nz
  • Taupaki Technologies Ltd. Siglent Distributor NZ.
    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11602 on: June 03, 2018, 02:43:25 am »
Bear in mind that for a good thirty years compact disc was king and vinyl had gone the way of the dodo, except that now the sales of vinyl are increasing dramatically, top acts are releasing stuff on vinyl again and even the lowly tape cassette has started to see some re-adopters. Take the comparison with the pinch of salt it requires, but it does demonstrate that a shift from digital back to analog, even after all the big names have abandoned a technology, can happen if enough customers make their desire for it known.
::)
Good luck listening to vinyl while driving you car, truck, tractor, boat............
Yeah you say put it on a USB stick.......well it ain't analog anymore !
Avid Rabid Hobbyist.
Some stuff seen @ Siglent HQ cannot be shared.
 

Offline GerryBags

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 334
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11603 on: June 03, 2018, 02:51:54 am »
Bear in mind that for a good thirty years compact disc was king and vinyl had gone the way of the dodo, except that now the sales of vinyl are increasing dramatically, top acts are releasing stuff on vinyl again and even the lowly tape cassette has started to see some re-adopters. Take the comparison with the pinch of salt it requires, but it does demonstrate that a shift from digital back to analog, even after all the big names have abandoned a technology, can happen if enough customers make their desire for it known.
::)
Good luck listening to vinyl while driving you car, truck, tractor, boat............
Yeah you say put it on a USB stick.......well it ain't analog anymore !

Heh. I remember how long it took car stereo manufacturers to come up with a CD transport that could deal with the vibration, and how many people do you know that still listen to CD's in their car?
 

Offline tautech

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 29810
  • Country: nz
  • Taupaki Technologies Ltd. Siglent Distributor NZ.
    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11604 on: June 03, 2018, 02:57:13 am »
Bear in mind that for a good thirty years compact disc was king and vinyl had gone the way of the dodo, except that now the sales of vinyl are increasing dramatically, top acts are releasing stuff on vinyl again and even the lowly tape cassette has started to see some re-adopters. Take the comparison with the pinch of salt it requires, but it does demonstrate that a shift from digital back to analog, even after all the big names have abandoned a technology, can happen if enough customers make their desire for it known.
::)
Good luck listening to vinyl while driving you car, truck, tractor, boat............
Yeah you say put it on a USB stick.......well it ain't analog anymore !

Heh. I remember how long it took car stereo manufacturers to come up with a CD transport that could deal with the vibration, and how many people do you know that still listen to CD's in their car?
Yeah shit roads are the enemy but they'd be worse for vinyl.
Most I know play CD's especially when tripping.
I've got a rear 12 stacker in my SUV and others I know have 5 or 6 disc units in the head deck.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist.
Some stuff seen @ Siglent HQ cannot be shared.
 

Offline mnementh

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 17541
  • Country: us
  • *Hiding in the Dwagon-Cave*
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11605 on: June 03, 2018, 05:11:35 am »
Bear in mind that for a good thirty years compact disc was king and vinyl had gone the way of the dodo, except that now the sales of vinyl are increasing dramatically, top acts are releasing stuff on vinyl again and even the lowly tape cassette has started to see some re-adopters. Take the comparison with the pinch of salt it requires, but it does demonstrate that a shift from digital back to analog, even after all the big names have abandoned a technology, can happen if enough customers make their desire for it known.
::)
Good luck listening to vinyl while driving you car, truck, tractor, boat............
Yeah you say put it on a USB stick.......well it ain't analog anymore !

Heh. I remember how long it took car stereo manufacturers to come up with a CD transport that could deal with the vibration, and how many people do you know that still listen to CD's in their car?
Yeah shit roads are the enemy but they'd be worse for vinyl.
Most I know play CD's especially when tripping.
I've got a rear 12 stacker in my SUV and others I know have 5 or 6 disc units in the head deck.

CD audio is shit. But it's shit that plays anywhere.

I have a handful of CDs in my car at any time... that's how I vett them for addition to my iTunes.

From there I rip whatever albums I feel like including on my phone as 128KBPS MP3s. I know CD is only 44K, but the noise overhead makes a difference. That difference isn't there (or at least I can't hear it on a cheap android phone with half-decent headphones) between 128K & 192K. The stuff I consider my "Core" music I've bought in 256K .m4a format where appropriate due to high-quality source material or multiple-regression digital remastering.

None of this compares to the latest crop of lossless digital players (I had a chance to play around with a pono at a convention a couple years ago and was blown away by it, but just couldn't bear the "cost of entry" into the ecosystem), but those REALLY only give better than I get from iTunesPlus IF the source material was recorded with lossless digital masters. Obviously none of the music I grew up with fits that bill, so most of my collection would still be iTunes.

Why iTunes? Because it has a good UI, it is well thought out for managing a large music collection and I have high-quality DRM-free copies of all of my music on my HDD and numerous other players besides my collection of ipod Nanos. AND my wife is a music teacher, so our shared collection is several hundred GB, most of which she carries on a 160GB iPod Classic for her work.


mnem
*toddles off to ded*
alt-codes work here:  alt-0128 = €  alt-156 = £  alt-0216 = Ø  alt-225 = ß  alt-230 = µ  alt-234 = Ω  alt-236 = ∞  alt-248 = °
 

Offline Mr. Scram

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9821
  • Country: 00
  • Display aficionado
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11606 on: June 03, 2018, 05:23:39 am »
Both 128 Kbps and 192 Kbps mp3s are dreadful. I'm far from an audio snob, but the compression often sucks the life out of the highs and lows and leaves audible distortion. CD quality is much better than that and what I would consider the benchmark for proper quality. I know there is HD audio out there, but that's beyond what my ears and equipment can handle. Picking a nice song becomes more important than the equipment it's recorded with or played on well before that point.
 

Offline Specmaster

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 14483
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11607 on: June 03, 2018, 05:56:14 am »
mnementh
It's very true 'feature creep' or as I like to call it 'oneupmanship' has impacted immensely on the UI present in a modern DSO and all manufacturers are guilty of this to some degree.
On the other hand instead of owning multiple bits of equipment a modern DSO can offer a lot of additional functionality as part of the 'package' so instead of overloading the bench we have it all in a single unit. Manufacturers of both high and low end gear do it.
Of course with some gear it's just 'tick box' additions while with others this additional functionality is real and capable.
So while you might not agree new entry level DSO's are 'dirt cheap', once you factor in these newly added capabilities it changes the view on the 'old CRO vs new DSO' argument.

We could go on for weeks more than the few days we've done thus far but I'd like to round out with my comments on this topic are entirely based on what I've seen in my marketplace and I fully expect buyers into the future to become more and more aware of the 'added value' in modern instruments. In the US where a plethora of used gear is available the marketplace is very different.

This discussion we've had has gone on before in various threads over the years and could/should continue with its own new thread in the TE board where we'd hopefully get a better consensus and greater participation than just here in the TEA thread.
I won't start it as it'll only be seen as some sort of Siglent propaganda.  ::)

 
Problem with the extra features / functionality being built-in is that they aren't as good as a dedicated piece of hardware for a given function. Also you may require to be able to use both or more functions at the same time which I don't believe is possible with a DSO?

Also if the DSO fails, then you are also bereft of the other pieces of gear that it attempts to simulate, that in my book is just a no no. No audio phile would accept a all in one unit for the same reasons.

I believe it has become nothing more than a cynical means of justifying the higher starting price as you mentioned, factoring it in, the cost is not bad, looks like an attempt to minimise the higher then it needs to be price. Fact is, it suffers from the constraints I outlined above and also of course many people will already have the various items already in their home labs.

I doubt it costs that much to add in these mediocre extra functions anyway as with digital systems, most of the hardware is already there and is more software driven to make the changes?

From mobile device so predictive text might have struck again [emoji83]

Who let Murphy in?

Brymen-Fluke-HP-Thurlby-Thander-Tek-Extech-Black Star-GW-Avo-Kyoritsu-Amprobe-ITT-Robin-TTi
 

Offline Mr. Scram

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9821
  • Country: 00
  • Display aficionado
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11608 on: June 03, 2018, 06:11:55 am »
Developing software features costs time, effort and money too. I know the hardware crowd tends to underestimate that, but if you just look at the horrible software that's consistently supplied with even very expensive logic analysers you know that proper software development isn't trivial.
 

Offline Specmaster

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 14483
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11609 on: June 03, 2018, 06:16:08 am »


Developing software features costs time, effort and money too. I know the hardware crowd tends to underestimate that, but if you just look at the horrible software that's consistently supplied with even very expensive logic analysers you know that proper software development isn't trivial.

True, in that case stick to the core function of a scope and hopefully reduce the prices and make the UI better. Most people already have the other items anyway.

From mobile device so predictive text might have struck again [emoji83]

Who let Murphy in?

Brymen-Fluke-HP-Thurlby-Thander-Tek-Extech-Black Star-GW-Avo-Kyoritsu-Amprobe-ITT-Robin-TTi
 

Online tggzzz

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 21226
  • Country: gb
  • Numbers, not adjectives
    • Having fun doing more, with less
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11610 on: June 03, 2018, 07:07:48 am »
True, in that case stick to the core function of a scope and hopefully reduce the prices and make the UI better. Most people already have the other items anyway.

Marketing droids used to hate it when I asked "would our customers prefer us to do one thing well or two things poorly?". Every such decision on their part exposes them to the consequences of a bad decision.

The consequence of not answering the question is all the "eierlegende Wollmilchsau" which waste our time and money.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 23099
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11611 on: June 03, 2018, 07:15:11 am »
Marketing droids would prefer two things done poorly as they can cover that up with enough lies and sell two things. Years in “enterprise” software has taught me that. They don’t like me doing product evaluations now as the word lie usually goes in it several times.

Software is very hard to put together. So is hardware to get to the point you’re confident with shipping it without incurring a recall. One reason why everything is shifted into the digital domain. Reduces risk as you fix that later.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 07:17:09 am by bd139 »
 

Offline djos

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 991
  • Country: au
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11612 on: June 03, 2018, 07:25:42 am »
Chaps, question after the recent scope debate, what the hell is a "digital real time scope"?

Uneducated guess is its a DSO minus storage and therefore having the worst aspects of DSO and CRO combined?

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 23099
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11613 on: June 03, 2018, 07:35:21 am »
They’re both sampling scopes. Real time ones are just faster.

Sampling scopes usually use reconstruction ie they pick samples as quick as possible not necessarily on the same wave cycle to sample say a 20GHz signal. This allows you to build an approximation of a very fast signal if it is repetitive.  Real time ones have stupid fast ADCs and ungodly trickery so they actually sample near the full rate.
 
The following users thanked this post: djos

Offline Berni

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5050
  • Country: si
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11614 on: June 03, 2018, 07:48:44 am »
Chaps, question after the event scope debate, what the hell is a "digital real time scope"?

Uneducated guess is its a DSO minus storage and therefore having the worst aspects of DSO and CRO combined?

No it just means that the sample rate of the scope is above the Nyquist frequency of the bandwidth its rated for so that it can acquire samples in real time. These days it might sound like its obvious since all scopes have a higher sample rate than the bandwidth.

But in the old days they did not have the tech to build a 1GS/s 8bit ADC and move around data quickly enough. So they built so called "digital sampling oscilloscopes". These scopes have a ADC that runs slower than the bandwidth of the scope, because they are so slow means they can only grab a few samples per trigger event, but they keep repeating this on different spots in time in the next trigger events to slowly build up the waveform. This is then essentially a digital scope without the one shot trigger advantage that CROs don't have. It needs a repetitive waveform with a stable trigger to show you any meaningful image.

But that sounds like a awful deal. Why would anyone want a digital scope that's missing the main selling point of a digital scope ? Well the answer is speed. CROs are limited by how quickly you can deflect the beam and this gets really difficult once you get to 500MHz. On the other hand digital scopes need ridiculously fast ADCs to to digitize waveforms above 1GHz. But a sampling scope is only limited in bandwidth by how fast of a sample and hold circuit you can put in front of the ADC to grab a sample from the waveform.

I have such a scope. Its a HP 83480A ( https://www.keysight.com/en/pd-48467-pn-83480A/digital-communications-analyzer?cc=SI&lc=eng )
The fact it has HP in the name shows it age. But this scope can show you up to 50GHz of bandwith with the right plugins. I haven't been able to track down those plugins so mine is only limited to 20GHz. This allows you to measure step responses with rise times in the 10s of picoseconds or draw eye diagrams of >10Gbit serial data lines.

These days they are becoming quite obsolete since we now have the technology to create 100GHz bandwidth real time oscilloscopes (If you can afford them that is).
 
The following users thanked this post: djos

Offline tautech

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 29810
  • Country: nz
  • Taupaki Technologies Ltd. Siglent Distributor NZ.
    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11615 on: June 03, 2018, 07:49:52 am »
Problem with the extra features / functionality being built-in is that they aren't as good as a dedicated piece of hardware for a given function.
True and everyone has differing expectations.
So a buyer might think:
Will it work well enough to suit my needs and I then not need to buy another piece of equipment ?
Quote
Also you may require to be able to use both or more functions at the same time which I don't believe is possible with a DSO?
Off the cuff there's 4 examples  that come to mind.
DSO's with MSO (LA) capability.
Split screen FFT mode.
Decode.
Inbuilt AWG.
All were once the domain of dedicated instruments but are now available in several basic entry level DSO's.
We'll see more of it I'm sure until a manufacturer spots a marketing opportunity to offer a good bare bones basic DSO and then the clock starts at zero again.  :horse:

Quote
Also if the DSO fails, then you are also bereft of the other pieces of gear that it attempts to simulate, that in my book is just a no no. No audio phile would accept a all in one unit for the same reasons.
::)
We used to say that about a car with electronic ignition, then EFI, ABS, Cruise control, Climate control, Auto locking, ..............

Quote
I believe it has become nothing more than a cynical means of justifying the higher starting price as you mentioned, factoring it in, the cost is not bad, looks like an attempt to minimise the higher then it needs to be price.
Of course...................or requests from customers to add functionality.

C'mon, how can this be a bad thing for anyone getting into the industry ?

Quote
Fact is, it suffers from the constraints I outlined above and also of course many people will already have the various items already in their home labs.
Sure but many don't, they really don't. I've acquired a bit of gear over the years but for those decades younger than us they haven't had to opportunities to gather what we have. Please understand and accept that.

Quote
I doubt it costs that much to add in these mediocre extra functions anyway as with digital systems, most of the hardware is already there and is more software driven to make the changes?
Developing software features costs time, effort and money too. I know the hardware crowd tends to underestimate that, but if you just look at the horrible software that's consistently supplied with even very expensive logic analysers you know that proper software development isn't trivial.
You nailed that one.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist.
Some stuff seen @ Siglent HQ cannot be shared.
 

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 23099
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11616 on: June 03, 2018, 07:52:30 am »
Just a point as well. Us software dudes are more expensive than the hardware dudes now  8)
 

Online tggzzz

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 21226
  • Country: gb
  • Numbers, not adjectives
    • Having fun doing more, with less
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11617 on: June 03, 2018, 08:36:05 am »
I've worked on this for several hours and I find myself getting a little aggravated so it's time to stop and pick up on it later. I had to pull the DM44 to get it out of the way. The Vertical Board itself is free in the back and I'm slowly working towards the front. I will be pulling and labeling all the coax. And there's at least two other wires that will have to be unsoldered in addition to the delay line. On the front panel I have everything pulled except the shaft for the Channel 2 variable pot. The allen key isn't long enough to reach down to the set screw so I'll have to be real careful when I pull the board out so as to not break that shaft. I have a few questions....

Do the BNC's pull WITH the board or will I have to unsolder them?

I assume the Vertical Mode switch board behind this board pull as one unit, correct?

Right now I think it's 50/50 that I'll ever get this back together in one piece. But I'm not giving up.

Some pictures of a Tek 475: https://entertaininghacks.wordpress.com/2018/02/27/renovating-a-tektronix-475-timebase-switches-potentiometers-and-hf-response/
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Online tggzzz

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 21226
  • Country: gb
  • Numbers, not adjectives
    • Having fun doing more, with less
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11618 on: June 03, 2018, 08:49:48 am »
Marketing droids would prefer two things done poorly as they can cover that up with enough lies and sell two things. Years in “enterprise” software has taught me that. They don’t like me doing product evaluations now as the word lie usually goes in it several times.

So true, writing "enterprise" software was the only time I was required to produce something of which I was ashamed. Resistance was futile, e.g. the team's repeated response on encountering a null pointer exception in a unit test was to catch it and ignore it :(

As CAR Hoare[1] put it in 1981, "There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult."

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/C._A._R._Hoare
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 23099
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11619 on: June 03, 2018, 09:18:16 am »
That’s a perfect quote that sums it up well.

My mantra is about promoting managing complexity along with features and requirements. I am saying I told you so a lot. This is slowly turning into credibility as things go wrong. That’s what software companies look like inside. A giant rug which had dead bodies piled up under it.

On the outside it’s a happy shiny facade of perfection because it’s cheap to pretend.

Anyone want to give me an EE job? :D
 

Offline Mr. Scram

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9821
  • Country: 00
  • Display aficionado
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11620 on: June 03, 2018, 09:22:21 am »
That’s a perfect quote that sums it up well.

My mantra is about promoting managing complexity along with features and requirements. I am saying I told you so a lot. This is slowly turning into credibility as things go wrong. That’s what software companies look like inside. A giant rug which had dead bodies piled up under it.

On the outside it’s a happy shiny facade of perfection because it’s cheap to pretend.

Anyone want to give me an EE job? :D
Sure, I have some stuff that needs its batteries replaced.
 

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 23099
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11621 on: June 03, 2018, 09:23:21 am »
If you’re paying I’m there ;)
 

Offline Specmaster

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 14483
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11622 on: June 03, 2018, 09:27:21 am »
Problem with the extra features / functionality being built-in is that they aren't as good as a dedicated piece of hardware for a given function.
True and everyone has differing expectations.
So a buyer might think:
Will it work well enough to suit my needs and I then not need to buy another piece of equipment ?
Quote
Also you may require to be able to use both or more functions at the same time which I don't believe is possible with a DSO?
Off the cuff there's 4 examples  that come to mind.
DSO's with MSO (LA) capability.
Split screen FFT mode.
Decode.
Inbuilt AWG.
All were once the domain of dedicated instruments but are now available in several basic entry level DSO's.
We'll see more of it I'm sure until a manufacturer spots a marketing opportunity to offer a good bare bones basic DSO and then the clock starts at zero again.  :horse:

Quote
Also if the DSO fails, then you are also bereft of the other pieces of gear that it attempts to simulate, that in my book is just a no no. No audio phile would accept a all in one unit for the same reasons.
::)
We used to say that about a car with electronic ignition, then EFI, ABS, Cruise control, Climate control, Auto locking, ..............

Quote
I believe it has become nothing more than a cynical means of justifying the higher starting price as you mentioned, factoring it in, the cost is not bad, looks like an attempt to minimise the higher then it needs to be price.
Of course...................or requests from customers to add functionality.

C'mon, how can this be a bad thing for anyone getting into the industry ?

Quote
Fact is, it suffers from the constraints I outlined above and also of course many people will already have the various items already in their home labs.
Sure but many don't, they really don't. I've acquired a bit of gear over the years but for those decades younger than us they haven't had to opportunities to gather what we have. Please understand and accept that.

Quote
I doubt it costs that much to add in these mediocre extra functions anyway as with digital systems, most of the hardware is already there and is more software driven to make the changes?
Developing software features costs time, effort and money too. I know the hardware crowd tends to underestimate that, but if you just look at the horrible software that's consistently supplied with even very expensive logic analysers you know that proper software development isn't trivial.
You nailed that one.
The simple answer to the duplicating many good items with inferior built in ones is to offer 2 products, one is the basic item, the other with loaded items. But we all know that would never happen because the bean counters risk loosing revenue so the fully loaded becomes the sole offering in the relentless pursuit of profit to keep shareholders happy.

From mobile device so predictive text might have struck again [emoji83]

Who let Murphy in?

Brymen-Fluke-HP-Thurlby-Thander-Tek-Extech-Black Star-GW-Avo-Kyoritsu-Amprobe-ITT-Robin-TTi
 

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 23099
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11623 on: June 03, 2018, 09:38:22 am »
Well they price differentiate the items based on software options now so you have one product line and pay for extras. Or crack the fucker like a rigol ;)
 

Offline med6753

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11332
  • Country: us
  • Tek nut
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #11624 on: June 03, 2018, 10:04:42 am »
I have to stay off my local Craigslist. Saw this today.

I lust after a 547. And it's got a 1A1 plug-in.

The Fairchild counter has nixies!  8)
An old gray beard with an attitude.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf