Products > Test Equipment
Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
AVGresponding:
--- Quote from: Vince on June 24, 2022, 08:44:25 pm ---Starting to dig into and sort my IC's.
After only 2 minutes I am already pulling my hair out.
Got chip marked 74HCT4060 :o
4060 is 4000 series CMOS of course... and 74HCT is.. well 74 series. Two different things. How can I see both merged into one single part number ! Is it a 4060 or a 74 chip ?!
I thought things were simple, clear.. and now I have this hybrid of a chip |O
So I ha d alook on Wikipedia to see the list of 74 chips....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_7400-series_integrated_circuits
I should not have looked, I should not have... really really not...
My old book on ICs lists like 75 chips for the 4000 series and about the same for TTL Chips..... but wikipedia says there are now HUNDREDS of chips !!!!! :scared:
Says the 74 series "borrowed" (STOLE !) some chips from the 4000 CMOS family... and vice versa.
So how do I sort these hybrids ! I cut the chips in two halves with angle grinder and I put one halve in the 74 drawer and the other half in the 4000 series drawer ?! :palm:
I HATE chip manufacturers !!!! :scared:
I am starting to admire people who work in libraries, that try to organize and categorize books, and decide on what shelve they will put them on :palm:
--- End quote ---
Not to mention all the variations for each IC number in terms of F, ACT, S (do love me a pun, however I can shoehorn it in) etc, then there's the MIL spec ones, ceradips, hermetically sealed space qualified jobbies, the variety is almost endless!
Robert763:
--- Quote from: tggzzz on June 24, 2022, 09:04:48 pm ---
--- Quote from: bd139 on June 24, 2022, 08:51:59 pm ---Personally the old CMOS 4000 series are DEAD other than the CD4007 which is still quite useful as it's basically uncommitted MOSFET inverter which can be snuck into various analogue circuits.
--- End quote ---
The 4000 series have one nice characteristic: operation at IIRC 3V to 15V
Back in the late 70s I used some to build a fllter with a Q of 4000 using 10% capacitors, capable of measuring 1pW using bog-standard LF351 op amps, and a dynamic range of 180dB (90dB optical).
--- End quote ---
And of course the 4046 PLL . 4000 series small scale logic is no moer dead than any other small scale logic that isn''t 3.3V or less.
It's just the dragon stirring.
AVGresponding:
--- Quote from: bd139 on June 24, 2022, 08:51:59 pm ---
--- Quote from: Vince on June 24, 2022, 08:44:25 pm ---Starting to dig into and sort my IC's.
After only 2 minutes I am already pulling my hair out.
Got chip marked 74HCT4060 :o
4060 is 4000 series CMOS of course... and 74HCT is.. well 74 series. Two different things. How can I see both merged into one single part number ! Is it a 4060 or a 74 chip ?!
I thought things were simple, clear.. and now I have this hybrid of a chip |O
So I ha d alook on Wikipedia to see the list of 74 chips....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_7400-series_integrated_circuits
I should not have looked, I should not have... really really not...
My old book on ICs lists like 75 chips for the 4000 series and about the same for TTL Chips..... but wikipedia says there are now HUNDREDS of chips !!!!! :scared:
Says the 74 series "borrowed" (STOLE !) some chips from the 4000 CMOS family... and vice versa.
So how do I sort these hybrids ! I cut the chips in two halves with angle grinder and I put one halve in the 74 drawer and the other half in the 4000 series drawer ?! :palm:
I HATE chip manufacturers !!!! :scared:
I am starting to admire people who work in libraries, that try to organize and categorize books, and decide on what shelve they will put them on :palm:
--- End quote ---
Actually the thing here is really good. The old 4000 series were slow as hell, fragile and had incompatibilities with other logic families. Some genius came along and said "hey if we do HCT then they get faster chips that work with TTL and go in the same sockets and don't blow up or suffer from migration deaths quite as quickly" thus the 74HC4060 counter was born.
Personally the old CMOS 4000 series are DEAD other than the CD4007 which is still quite useful as it's basically uncommitted MOSFET inverter which can be snuck into various analogue circuits.
--- End quote ---
Wouldn't surprise me if it was the auto industry kept 4000 series alive; they were really common for a time in car control electronics, before overall integration of separate systems and microprocessor control meant that since there was a need for regulated sub-12V you may as well use the likes of HCT etc anyway.
capt bullshot:
--- Quote from: Vince on June 24, 2022, 08:44:25 pm ---Got chip marked 74HCT4060 :o
4060 is 4000 series CMOS of course... and 74HCT is.. well 74 series. Two different things. How can I see both merged into one single part number ! Is it a 4060 or a 74 chip ?!
--- End quote ---
That's an easy one:
4060 function and pinout in HC / HCT technology. So basically it runs off 5V only and faster than the original 4060
Robert763:
--- Quote from: tautech on June 24, 2022, 09:32:45 pm ---
--- Quote from: Vince on June 24, 2022, 09:15:23 pm ---
--- Quote from: bd139 on June 24, 2022, 09:08:33 pm ---
--- Quote from: Vince on June 24, 2022, 09:04:23 pm ---I don't understand the comparison between the two ? I mean they are just different things. 4000 series has a voltage range of 3 to 15V. 74HC / HCT if I believe the datasheet I just pulled, is 2 to 6V.
I understand your points, taken...but if I need to supply the logic for whatever reason above 6V, I am screwed with 74-anything.
Or if the circuit doesn't have stable supply voltage and the logic cheap needs to be able to operate with a changing supply voltage ?! :-//
--- End quote ---
It's probably cheaper now to just chuck a 78L05 in the circuit and be done. That will handle both problems for pocket change.
--- End quote ---
Yes again not saying 4000 is better, just saying it's different and it thus allows potentially to do stuff you can't do with a 74 (alone).
It's up to the designer and bean counters to decide if it makes more sense for a particular project to go one route or the other. But at least 4000 series gives you options, and options are always good... 8)
--- End quote ---
These days we have more options like lower threshold MOSFET gates so we don't need to use level convertors so much and in this realm is where 4000 were so beneficial.
Lots of fun playing with glue logic that most can't be bothered with these days and instead just use a micro which is fine if you think you can program. |O
--- End quote ---
FTFY
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