Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 15675911 times)

flano and 18 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline m k

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2150
  • Country: fi
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132325 on: December 09, 2022, 01:11:29 pm »
RS has only 2 core 2182y, it's around 90€.

But low and behold, I didn't even bother checking Farnell and they have three different 2183Y versions by metre and more is coming.
Must stop underestimating their need of income.
Their 2183Y-0.5MMGRY100M is around 70€, 2183Y-0.5MMGRY will be around 1€/m.
Some are described as being oval and others round, type is the same, only color is changing.

So now I must start remembering what I forgot ordering last time.
Unfortunately nothing is actually urgent.
Advance-Aneng-Appa-AVO-Beckman-Danbridge-Data Tech-Fluke-General Radio-H. W. Sullivan-Heathkit-HP-Kaise-Kyoritsu-Leeds & Northrup-Mastech-REO-Simpson-Sinclair-Tektronix-Tokyo Rikosha-Topward-Triplett-YFE
(plus lesser brands from the work shop of the world)
 

Offline Neomys Sapiens

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3268
  • Country: de
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132326 on: December 10, 2022, 01:42:28 am »
Oh frabjous day indeed! At least my Multizet A1000 is unreservedly with me again.
All that was needed was to localise the Pot which controls the adjustment range of the front panel electrical zero.
As an added boon, I was able to adjust the AC compensation a bit using the 10kHz output of the DMMcheck.
All ranges consistent and on spot as far as it is discernible on a analogue scala. The totally regular offset over all functions and ranges suggested something like this, but it could also have been some component or, worst case, the movement itself.
 :-DMM
Now on to the B1012...which will be harder, I presume.
 
The following users thanked this post: ch_scr, AVGresponding

Offline Vince

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4193
  • Country: fr
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132327 on: December 10, 2022, 06:37:43 pm »


Electronic Load


Remember that load stroy was originally so that I can test an SMPS ( from a consumer brewing machine) that my old man shipped to me, complaining it would not hold up at large currents.

With the load I proved to him that it worked just fine even at currents much higher than the advertised 5.1A max.

So I shipped it back. He put it back in the machine and... he says it fails again, but when he replaces it with a generic 12 Euros adjustable power brick from Amazon... the machine works fine.

He thinks my FET load is somehow acting wierd, not "resistor like "enough, can't mimic a real load, that it's strange and weird and crap.
So he shipped the SMPS back to me again, along with some wirewound resistors, "real" loads, loads you can trust, in his mind...

So... I tried with his resistors... put x4 6.8R in //, drawing 5,75A, so a lot more than the rated current for this SMPS.... yet it works fine. Output voltage does not drop, and ripple voltage on the scope (yes I went all fancy) is perfectly reasonable and clean.

I don't know what other excuse he will find this time, to say " I did it wrong, it MUST be faulty " .....  :palm:


Anyway, before I tried with his resistors, I first tested it with my load, so I can sweep the current easily and see how it behaves.

So I made a cross of Zoli's SMD PCB load, with Robert's zero Euro load, with the 3 FET's in // on the big heatsink.

At first it did not work, it would not draw any current hmmm.... debug time.
Long story short : one of the op-amp had blown again, was shorting the power supply. Replaced it.
Then the 10V voltage regulator blew too, would give only 300mV output....  I removed it but did not replace it : I bridge its input and output pin so as to bypass it, and replaced the lab pwoer supply with... a 9V battery connector.   This way it's so much easier and tidier on the bench, and does not "waste" a power supply.
A 9V battery I thought, is just fine : the board draws bugger all current. 9V is plenty enough for the 1.25V Vreg chip to work and supply the trim pot.
9V or even 7.5V is the battery is nearly dead... is still plenty enough to drive the gate of the MOSFET and get them to spit bags of current.

So I did that.  Then I replaced the PCB mounted 25 turn tiny trimmer, with my big panel mount x10 turn pot.

Well I was right... it works just fine with the 9V battery and no voltage regulator for the op-amps.

The panel mount pot is so much more comfortable and easier to operate.

It's a winner.

Now that that's out the door, I can resume work on the QUAD amplifiers as I too want to get those out the door fast, so I can start working at long last on my OWN stuff.... stuff I actually care about....


 
The following users thanked this post: ch_scr, Zoli

Offline ch_scr

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 821
  • Country: de
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132328 on: December 10, 2022, 07:05:16 pm »
Here's my little take on the load-project. Took some inspiration from what was shown... The "bargraph" is 1A per led, it's just that the puny heatsink (that is on there for now) takes a strong fan to get somewhere even at 5A (of 10). The pin socket provides the shunt amplifier voltage to get it more precise if need be. Just to be clear, I blame you lot for this, dangling the "look how easy this is" and the "look how much use we get out ours" in front of my nose  >:D But honestly, thanks for tempting me - it sure is a nice thing to have!
PS: This post sponsered by "Rome" aka "Star-ground all the things"
 
The following users thanked this post: Vince, Robert763, Zoli

Offline Vince

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4193
  • Country: fr
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132329 on: December 10, 2022, 08:10:56 pm »
Oh wow, congratulations !!!  :-+

So looks like you made your own PCB at home, with nasty chemicals and all, like in the old days ?

I always like it when SMD is used on such a PCB.... looks so weird, paradoxical.... it's like finding SMD components in a '60s hollow state Tek scope...
Maybe once my garage is built, I will start doing my own etched boards for when I can't wait for chinese companies to send them, and/or when even cheap chinese, is still too expensive or too fancy for a particular need.

Well done on the bargraph ! I had forgotten about these things somehow ! Looks cool, retro as hell.... just perfect ! Those specialized IC driving them, made it a so easy to implement them... nice to see you can still buy them today ! Or maybe you had old stock...

I am still debating whether or not I want to build an ammeter into my load, when I get to build a nice enclosure for it. Sometimes I feel it's unnesseray as one can just wire a DMM next to it if need be, and get an accurate reading. But sometimes I also feel like... like I want some semi-accurate reading just to see what's going on in the load, yet I don't want to bother with a DMM that takes space on the bench, and extra wires.

So I was thinking of embedding a 3200 count ready-made module but... it might feel too much... like trying to stick a DMM inside the load, a bit pretentious.

So... a bargraph would be cool. It would give enough resolution to give me the coarse indication that I am after, yet it would not look too "sophisticated" like digital display would... and it would look nicely retro.
Yeah.... a bargraph could be an idea !  I could even have two of them... a coarse one from 1 to 10A, and another one from 0 to 1.0, with 100mA resolution...

Thanks for the idea ch_scr !  ;D
 

Offline Peter_O

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 424
  • Country: de
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132330 on: December 10, 2022, 08:30:19 pm »
I've had a cotemplative afternoon doing a nearly full calibration of my HP3310A from 1969 and listening to Gardiner's recording of Monteverdi's Marian Vespers .  :-/O
Just some snow is missing.

Skipped only the distortion point, because I was to lazy to haul the 35665A onto the desk again.
I played with that topic some month ago and the 3310A was within spec back then.
How does one measure THD with a SDS2000X+?  :-//

All other parameters were within spec already, but of course I did a proper adjustment of the frequency wheel.  :-)

Acc. to stickers the last calibration was done in the 80s. Nearly nothing was out of spec. That little guy is a joy to play with.  :)
 
The following users thanked this post: Vince, ch_scr

Offline ch_scr

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 821
  • Country: de
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132331 on: December 10, 2022, 08:38:41 pm »
We've got a pcb mill at work that "sometimes needs checking if it still works" ;) (Really lucky there) It's nice since you also have the holes drilled already. It's less nice, since with isolation milling, you get an gap around your traces and the "spare copper" then has to be picked off with tweezers and hot air. I've had a few bargraph IC and wanted to do something with them for a long time already, so this came along just right. For 10A, the resolution is barely not really good enough. Good enough for a quick check of a power supply though. A small panel meter should be "just right" and still look quite retro.

@Peter_O: An FFT might give a good indication on where the distortion is lowest. At least a lot better than "staring at the sine". Limited by instrument distortion obviously, an 12bit one would really shine there...

Edit: IIRC "staring at the sine" gets you to around "20dB to the highest harmonic", but can't tell any better than that. An FFT even on 8 bit should be quite a bit better...
« Last Edit: December 10, 2022, 09:20:07 pm by ch_scr »
 
The following users thanked this post: Vince, Peter_O

Online tautech

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 28718
  • Country: nz
  • Taupaki Technologies Ltd. Siglent Distributor NZ.
    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132332 on: December 10, 2022, 08:47:07 pm »
................

@Peter_O: An FFT might give a good indication on where the distortion is lowest. At least a lot better than "staring at the sine". Limited by instrument distortion obviously, an 12bit one would really shine there...
10 bit mode is available up to 100 MHz.  ;)
Avid Rabid Hobbyist.
Siglent Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@SiglentVideo/videos
 

Offline duckduck

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 411
  • Country: us
  • 20Hz < fun < 20kHz, and RF is Really Fun
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132333 on: December 10, 2022, 09:52:14 pm »
Ebay drama.

I bought a HP 8656A Signal Generator (0.1 - 990 MHz), but when I received it, one of the handles was cracked, and the cooling fan was locked up solid. There was a huge amount of dust in the unit, as if it were operated outside for an extended period. I spun the fan with a popsicle stick and it did eventually turn under its own power, but it sounded like a brake rotor being machined. The bearings were clearly bone dry and dirty. I complained (politely) to the seller and he said that I should file a claim with UPS. I was hoping that we could work out a refund for a replacement fan and handle ~USD60. I'm not doing the work to file a fraudulent claim with UPS for a fan that didn't work when he packed it so I'm using the nuclear option and returning the unit. Ebay has already given me a pre-paid US Postal Service label. Damn shame, as the unit seemed to work otherwise. Latest date code I found was 8349, so perhaps a late 1983 build date.

I'll keep my eye out for another signal generator that can do UHF that doesn't cost an arm and a leg and a kidney.

« Last Edit: December 10, 2022, 10:02:29 pm by duckduck »
 
The following users thanked this post: Vince

Offline ch_scr

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 821
  • Country: de
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132334 on: December 10, 2022, 10:04:14 pm »
Seems like the seller knows he's the cheapest option. Not sure if I would swallow the additional 60$ to make it nice and have one, or send it back and pray for a bargain "next year". I sure get the feeling of beeing cheated here, but maybe at least sleep over it before sending it back?
 
The following users thanked this post: duckduck

Offline duckduck

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 411
  • Country: us
  • 20Hz < fun < 20kHz, and RF is Really Fun
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132335 on: December 10, 2022, 10:30:12 pm »
Seems like the seller knows he's the cheapest option. Not sure if I would swallow the additional 60$ to make it nice and have one, or send it back and pray for a bargain "next year". I sure get the feeling of beeing cheated here, but maybe at least sleep over it before sending it back?

Yes, I'm going to wait and see for a bit. Hoping the seller softens meanwhile. It was a really dirty and rough unit. I cleaned it for an hour before turning it on and it is still filthy. It's a good candidate for the old Tektronix washdown. I might just bite the bullet and spend USD500 for a nice HP 8657A. I tend to be a cheapskate, but that's more as a result of my personality than from necessity.

EDIT:

I recently got my "Amateur Extra" ham radio license (the highest ham license in the USA). The tests are pretty easy here, especially if you have some prior electronics/physics knowledge.

I also pulled a "Vince", and diagnosed my neighbor's studio monitor that had low volume. Was hoping for a challenge, but turned out to be a defective volume pot that I troubleshot with a handheld DMM. The manufacturer helpfully emailed me a schematic. It was also helpful to have the second monitor to compare it against. I've got a new pot on the way via ebay, since I couldn't find a replacement at Digikey.

EDIT EDIT:

My AWA Signal Sniffer came in handy troubleshooting the monitor.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/antique-wireless-association-signal-sniffer-build/msg3734263/#msg3734263

As well as my Rod Elliott Audio Oscillator:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/successful-assembly-of-my-first-electronics-project-esp-miniosc/msg3097293/#msg3097293
« Last Edit: December 10, 2022, 10:58:53 pm by duckduck »
 
The following users thanked this post: Vince, ch_scr, Zoli

Offline vze1lryy

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 78
  • Country: us
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132336 on: December 11, 2022, 02:44:13 am »
Hah! Just got linked to this. Sorry to revive such an old thread, but can't let this one go. This is some disingenuous garbage. Let's go line by line.

They will laugh all the way to the bank while shouting “it’s out of warranty - here’s the schematics” when you knock that poorly chosen USB-C connector on the motherboard and damage it. Hint: they mostly aren’t replaceable or repairable these days. You’re then at the mercy of a network of idiots and morons to do your repairs.

Mercy of a network of idiots and morons to do your repairs - you mean the independent repair community that figured out the design flaws & solutions to these devices before the manufacturer could even release a recall program? For many of the products with design flaws, WE proposed modifications so they can work again before the manufacturer issued a recall program.

Are they giving iPhone 6+ boards with M1 jumpers, or reflowed broadcom chips? Are they giving 820-2850 with modified framebuffer 1.35v buck converter circuits, or with the same inappropriate tantalum capacitor on C9560? Are they replacing iPhone 7 boards with audio IC issues with stock boards or with the requisite jumper so the board WON'T have intermittent audio within a year?

Several of my videos go over fixes Apple themselves weren't using in their own recall programs, instead just replacing a dead device with another board that will fail in the same way. You come here with blanket insults of the entire industry calling us idiots and morons; I can provide at least half a dozen citations to repairs we do that last longer than the manufacturer's, that were available long before the manufacturer ever issued a recall.

You know nothing about our industry and are willing to speak in disparaging absolutes. You have no knowledge base with which to make such statements and just spout your mouth off to sound edgy.

We need better than a right to repair. We need the manufacturers to support the device for the full lifecycle with all costs covered including ones from crappy engineering decisions like mounting wear items like connectors on the motherboard of laptops etc.  .... Also Mr Rossman is there selling this ideology because he’s a salesman selling his repair product. He wants you to come to his business and wants the manufacturers to keep on with this crap because it fills his pockets. And some of his repairs are quite frankly shit. I’ve actually had a discussion with him about this on the forum  :-DD

In terms of manufactures keeping on with not supporting customers, this couldn't be further from the case. In every video where I go over these design flaws, I shame Apple for not providing a proper warranty recall program to the customer. You don't care about that because it cuts against your narrative of me as the happy merchant or some shit. 

I agree that manufacturers should take accountability and responsibility for their design flaws - which includes fixing them for free for people who purchased the product. This is why my videos shame the manufacturer for not releasing extended warranty programs for issues, and repeatedly call on them to recall issues - whether it's flexgate warranty applying to a1706 2016 but not a1707 or a1706 2017 models, the 51v to the CPU problem, the 820-2915/820-2914 GPU problem prior to spring 2015, the A1278 2012 hard drive cable problem, the A2141 SSD buck problem, or a number of others on my channel.

I pull no punches in criticizing Apple for not supporting their customers properly when it comes to confirmed design flaws on their products. The argument here is that I am some salesman, as if this is a bad thing. I make money doing what I do, and I am proud of how we make our money. I don't make money off of artificially restricting a marketplace or depriving people the ability to have their items repaired, by a third party or themselves. I spent ten years showing everyone else how to do what I do, publicly, and have a non-profit dedicated to funding educational guides so everyone can do this work, including my competition. My non-profit, which I take $0 in pay from, funds the creation of guides like this so that EVERYONE - end users, or professional technicians who are my competition alike, can be more likely to perform successful, quality repairs.

In terms of my work, I stand by what we do with a longer warranty than the manufacturer provides on their own repairs. We maintain a better rating on google than any apple authorized service provider in a 30 mile radius - and any apple store in a 30 mile radius, and our reputation for the work that we do is second to none.

We need the manufacturers to support the device for the full lifecycle with all costs covered

Why should the manufacturer be forced to cover and pay for you spilling something on a device you own, or you dropping it off a table?
« Last Edit: December 11, 2022, 02:53:49 am by vze1lryy »
Louis Rossmann
Component level motherboard repair technician.
 
The following users thanked this post: Zucca, Specmaster, DC1MC, AVGresponding, Zoli

Offline Peter_O

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 424
  • Country: de
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132337 on: December 11, 2022, 11:07:42 am »
................

@Peter_O: An FFT might give a good indication on where the distortion is lowest. At least a lot better than "staring at the sine". Limited by instrument distortion obviously, an 12bit one would really shine there...
10 bit mode is available up to 100 MHz.  ;)

Thx to all of you for feedback!
So best approach would be to stare at the FFT and try to fiddle with the adjustment to minimize the harmonics by eye.

Thx Ch_src for TEAing a 12bit over my 8/10 bit scope.   :-DD
Thx Tautech for fencing TEA in again despite Silent's having a HD to offer now.    :)
 
The following users thanked this post: duckduck

Offline Peter_O

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 424
  • Country: de
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132338 on: December 11, 2022, 11:22:28 am »
Just had a look into competitor's R&S manuals.
The RTM series does know THD, but only via SW access, not on the GUI.
The lower price range RTB manuals show no hits when searching for "THD".
So it seems to be no simple ommission of Siglent, but a challenge for the lower price ranges.
 

Online tautech

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 28718
  • Country: nz
  • Taupaki Technologies Ltd. Siglent Distributor NZ.
    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist.
Siglent Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@SiglentVideo/videos
 
The following users thanked this post: Neomys Sapiens, ch_scr

Offline AVGresponding

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4718
  • Country: england
  • Exploring Rabbit Holes Since The 1970s
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132340 on: December 11, 2022, 11:49:58 am »
Hah! Just got linked to this. Sorry to revive such an old thread, but can't let this one go. This is some disingenuous garbage. Let's go line by line.

They will laugh all the way to the bank while shouting “it’s out of warranty - here’s the schematics” when you knock that poorly chosen USB-C connector on the motherboard and damage it. Hint: they mostly aren’t replaceable or repairable these days. You’re then at the mercy of a network of idiots and morons to do your repairs.


Mercy of a network of idiots and morons to do your repairs - you mean the independent repair community that figured out the design flaws & solutions to these devices before the manufacturer could even release a recall program? For many of the products with design flaws, WE proposed modifications so they can work again before the manufacturer issued a recall program.

Are they giving iPhone 6+ boards with M1 jumpers, or reflowed broadcom chips? Are they giving 820-2850 with modified framebuffer 1.35v buck converter circuits, or with the same inappropriate tantalum capacitor on C9560? Are they replacing iPhone 7 boards with audio IC issues with stock boards or with the requisite jumper so the board WON'T have intermittent audio within a year?

Several of my videos go over fixes Apple themselves weren't using in their own recall programs, instead just replacing a dead device with another board that will fail in the same way. You come here with blanket insults of the entire industry calling us idiots and morons; I can provide at least half a dozen citations to repairs we do that last longer than the manufacturer's, that were available long before the manufacturer ever issued a recall.

You know nothing about our industry and are willing to speak in disparaging absolutes. You have no knowledge base with which to make such statements and just spout your mouth off to sound edgy.

We need better than a right to repair. We need the manufacturers to support the device for the full lifecycle with all costs covered including ones from crappy engineering decisions like mounting wear items like connectors on the motherboard of laptops etc.  .... Also Mr Rossman is there selling this ideology because he’s a salesman selling his repair product. He wants you to come to his business and wants the manufacturers to keep on with this crap because it fills his pockets. And some of his repairs are quite frankly shit. I’ve actually had a discussion with him about this on the forum  :-DD


In terms of manufactures keeping on with not supporting customers, this couldn't be further from the case. In every video where I go over these design flaws, I shame Apple for not providing a proper warranty recall program to the customer. You don't care about that because it cuts against your narrative of me as the happy merchant or some shit. 

I agree that manufacturers should take accountability and responsibility for their design flaws - which includes fixing them for free for people who purchased the product. This is why my videos shame the manufacturer for not releasing extended warranty programs for issues, and repeatedly call on them to recall issues - whether it's flexgate warranty applying to a1706 2016 but not a1707 or a1706 2017 models, the 51v to the CPU problem, the 820-2915/820-2914 GPU problem prior to spring 2015, the A1278 2012 hard drive cable problem, the A2141 SSD buck problem, or a number of others on my channel.

I pull no punches in criticizing Apple for not supporting their customers properly when it comes to confirmed design flaws on their products. The argument here is that I am some salesman, as if this is a bad thing. I make money doing what I do, and I am proud of how we make our money. I don't make money off of artificially restricting a marketplace or depriving people the ability to have their items repaired, by a third party or themselves. I spent ten years showing everyone else how to do what I do, publicly, and have a non-profit dedicated to funding educational guides so everyone can do this work, including my competition. My non-profit, which I take $0 in pay from, funds the creation of guides like this so that EVERYONE - end users, or professional technicians who are my competition alike, can be more likely to perform successful, quality repairs.

In terms of my work, I stand by what we do with a longer warranty than the manufacturer provides on their own repairs. We maintain a better rating on google than any apple authorized service provider in a 30 mile radius - and any apple store in a 30 mile radius, and our reputation for the work that we do is second to none.

We need the manufacturers to support the device for the full lifecycle with all costs covered


Why should the manufacturer be forced to cover and pay for you spilling something on a device you own, or you dropping it off a table?


You won't get a reply from bd139; he's left the EEVBlog forum, several months ago now. EDIT: I will let him know of your post though.

While I broadly agree with you and your position (I am a subscriber), the point about manufacturers properly supporting their product in the use environment (ie from a repairable design POV to the ease of EOL recycling) is a difficult one to address. Want a device that can shrug off an accidental dunking into the toilet? It's going to have to be glued together. Want it as small and compact as possible? It's going to have to have everything on one board.

The trust issue is another difficult one. As you pointed out yourself in a recent vid, a piece of paper with the words "I promise not to steal your data or use substandard parts when I repair your device" is worth precisely nothing. Large organisations have (usually) lots of procedures around vetting, supply chain etc, which quite often don't get followed. Should they not have them? In a sense, in your position as a small business, you have an easier job in this respect; you can personally interview each prospective employee, and supervise them relatively closely if you chose, until you were sure of them. It's not really practical to scale that up to a business with tens of thousands of employees, so they use lots of written procedures and hope that they are followed. Neither will ultimately protect you from a bad actor, but in the small business case it's more likely to be picked up sooner, since one or two customer complaints are a much bigger blip for you.
The Google reviews point is tricky too. I've seen many review pages with obvious fake reviews, both positive and negative. Wading through the crap to find the nugget of truth is no easy task sometimes. I have a phone that needs repair, and wouldn't hesitate to use your company if I lived in NY, however I live in the UK, and have no idea about reputable local repair shops. They all seem to be market stalls, or integrated into head/vape shops, none of which inspires me with confidence.


Anyway, keep fighting the good fight, RTR is slowly gaining traction over here too.
nuqDaq yuch Dapol?
Addiction count: Agilent-AVO-BlackStar-Brymen-Chauvin Arnoux-Fluke-GenRad-Hameg-HP-Keithley-IsoTech-Mastech-Megger-Metrix-Micronta-Racal-RFL-Siglent-Solartron-Tektronix-Thurlby-Time Electronics-TTi-UniT
 
The following users thanked this post: Specmaster

Offline Brumby

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 12332
  • Country: au
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132341 on: December 11, 2022, 01:17:28 pm »

While I broadly agree with you and your position (I am a subscriber), the point about manufacturers properly supporting their product in the use environment (ie from a repairable design POV to the ease of EOL recycling) is a difficult one to address. Want a device that can shrug off an accidental dunking into the toilet? It's going to have to be glued together. Want it as small and compact as possible? It's going to have to have everything on one board.

As I understand it, the questions about "repairable design" and "EOL recycling" are not key to the fundamental principle of Right To Repair.  The core issue here is that manufacturers actively block third party repairs through various means.  The one on the top of my list is preventing manufacturers of certain chips from selling them to the open market.  That is an artificial impediment.

Issues such as this are the real problem, not about unfriendly design.

If a manufacturer deems it necessary to glue bits together in order to produce a more attractive product, then so be it.  If a repairer wishes to work on such a device, then let them work out how to deal with the glue - with the knowledge that when they reach the defective part, they will be able to purchase a replacement.  Having repairers work out the processes for repair isn't something new - they have been doing this for quite some time.  While having a design that's easier to work on would be nice, that is NOT a core element of Right To Repair.

Getting the right parts shouldn't be any worse than it is for anything else.  If a product manufacturer has, say, rights to the design of a chip, then - by all means - let that chip carry a royalty which the chip manufacturer can pass on each time a chip is sold to Digikey, Mouser or whoever.  Selling a $2 piece of silicon for $22 sure beats the idea of purchasing a $100 device in order to harvest that chip ... not to mention that the rest of that donor device instantly becomes eWaste.  Also note that there has never been any requirement for an equipment manufacturer to stock spare parts.  No.  On this topic, let the open market dictate supply of parts, just as it does for 1/4" headphone jacks and 7400 series TTL.

Providing documentation such as schematics is something that is not unreasonable either.  It's not as if someone is going to use them to clone a major manufacturer's product.  Circuitry is only a small part of manufacture.  Tooling, processes and programming are some of the other considerations.  Schematics need not provide full detail of protocols that could aid in the defeat of security measures - they just need to have sufficient information to assist with fault-finding.  I still have several dozen schematics from products I have collected over the years from pocket radios to television sets ... that actually came with the product.  Those products are no longer hot items (except, perhaps, as museum pieces) due to technological progress, not because of the schematic.


I make these points because I (and I'm sure many others) feel it is paramount that we are quite clear about what Right To Repair is - and what it is not.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2022, 01:19:33 pm by Brumby »
 
The following users thanked this post: Specmaster

Offline TERRA Operative

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2969
  • Country: jp
  • Voider of warranties
    • Near Far Media Youtube
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132342 on: December 11, 2022, 01:27:00 pm »
If anyone has one, I just uploaded a HQ version of the instruction manual for the Tektronix Type 284 Pulse Generator to TekWiki

https://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/284 (070-0754-00)

It's a high quality scan with colour schematics and exploded diagrams, and you can actually clearly see the waveform images too. :)



Next up to hit the scanner, a Fluke 335A DC Voltage Standard/Diff Voltmeter/Null Detector manual...
Where does all this test equipment keep coming from?!?

https://www.youtube.com/NearFarMedia/
 
The following users thanked this post: Vince, wolfy007, ch_scr, duckduck

Offline Vince

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4193
  • Country: fr
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132343 on: December 11, 2022, 02:15:50 pm »


Starting to "process" all the TE I got from my haul the other day.

Today on the podium we have this Férisol NA300A mW meter.

I have no use for it but I understand these things are still popular. SO since it's a decent brand and looked in decent nick cosmetically (sorry didn't clean it), I didn't have the heart no to take it, knowing it would end up in the scrap yard soon.

So I only took it, hoping someone here might want it ?

I mean for free of course... it's worth nothing anyway I guess, it's not an HP and has a special probe connector and no probe with it so... maybe use it for parts ? Wattmeter specific part that might be reusable in other brands/models of watt meters ?

I don't even know its specs, can't find a manual for it... the range switch suggests it can measure from -20dB up to +10dB.

It weighs a bit over 3kg, shipping cost 13 Euros for Germany. Free shipping for any of my  German benefactors of course, that goes without saying...

Anybody want to save the life of this puppy ?

No.... I knew it, asked anyway, for peace of mind.... now I guess all that's left to do is scrap it for parts. There are a few ceramic trimmers and a nice adjustable air cap, for starters.


« Last Edit: December 11, 2022, 03:25:46 pm by Vince »
 
The following users thanked this post: salvagedcircuitry, ch_scr, duckduck

Online xrunner

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7554
  • Country: us
  • hp>Agilent>Keysight>???
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132344 on: December 11, 2022, 03:11:04 pm »
Today on the podium we have this Férisol NA300A mW meter.

I have no use for it but I understand these things are still popular. SO since it's a decent brand and looked in decent nick cosmetically (sorry didn't clean it), I didn't have the heart no to take it, knowing it would end up in the scrap yard soon.

So I only took it, hoping someone here might want it ?

I mean for free of course... it's worse nothing anyway I guess, it's not an HP and has a special probe connector and no probe with it so... maybe use it for parts ? Wattmeter specific part that might be reusable in other brands/models of watt meters ?

Probably the same story as with hp power meters - no sensor comes with most of them. The sensor is what brings the BUCKS, and so, if there are any left that haven't been misused (that is - burned out due to mistakes), prepare to shell out the CASH for that part.  :)
I told my friends I could teach them to be funny, but they all just laughed at me.
 

Online themadhippy

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2706
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132345 on: December 11, 2022, 03:22:58 pm »


Quote
. now I guess all that's left to do is scrap it for parts.
what could you use that meter for?

Quote
A small panel meter should be "just right" and still look quite retro.
 

Offline Vince

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4193
  • Country: fr
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132346 on: December 11, 2022, 03:29:10 pm »


Quote
. now I guess all that's left to do is scrap it for parts.
what could you use that meter for?

Quote
A small panel meter should be "just right" and still look quite retro.

Well that meter movement is HUGE... for my load enclosure, the available real estate to fit a meter is minuscule, can only be small 7 segment displays or one technology or another, or a baregraph, not much else..
Plus I don't have technical means to print a news scale for it, I need amps not watts...
 

Offline Vince

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4193
  • Country: fr
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132347 on: December 11, 2022, 03:31:38 pm »
Today on the podium we have this Férisol NA300A mW meter.

I have no use for it but I understand these things are still popular. SO since it's a decent brand and looked in decent nick cosmetically (sorry didn't clean it), I didn't have the heart no to take it, knowing it would end up in the scrap yard soon.

So I only took it, hoping someone here might want it ?

I mean for free of course... it's worse nothing anyway I guess, it's not an HP and has a special probe connector and no probe with it so... maybe use it for parts ? Wattmeter specific part that might be reusable in other brands/models of watt meters ?

Probably the same story as with hp power meters - no sensor comes with most of them. The sensor is what brings the BUCKS, and so, if there are any left that haven't been misused (that is - burned out due to mistakes), prepare to shell out the CASH for that part.  :)

I don't know where you got the impression I was trying to spend money to get this TE working ?!  ;D
Besides, unlike HP where money could probably get you a probe.... for a niche and local manufacturer like Ferisol, I doubt any amount of cash could get you that probe, it's smiply not out there.
No amount of money can get you something that simply does not exist any more...

 

Online themadhippy

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2706
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132348 on: December 11, 2022, 04:39:55 pm »
Quote
Well that meter movement is HUGE... for my load enclosure, the available real estate to fit a meter is minuscule,
your attacking it from the wrong end,chuck the load in the meter case

Quote
I don't have technical means to print a news scale for it, I need amps not watt
wot you aint got tippex and a sharpie? or a printer and glue.

id bite yer hand of for that meter if you was in the uk ,but wouldn't trust it getting here  in a working condition if a postie or courier  was  involved
 

Offline Vince

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4193
  • Country: fr
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132349 on: December 11, 2022, 05:01:29 pm »




Another one from the haul :

A rack mount Ballantine Laboratories, type 320A, made in the USA, rings a bell ?

Found a manual for the type 320 not 320A.
All hollow state technology inside.

It's an RMS voltmeter, but a real one.
I didn't even know one could make such fancy things as an RMS meter in the hollow-state era... apparently you could.

According to the stuff makred on the front panel, it can go up to 4MHz and handle a crest factor of 5 or even 15 depending how you use it.
Not too shabby eh ?

Quite a wide dynamic range as well, full scale from 300µV up to 300V.

The "mode" switch gives you 4 choices : 

- Null Detector
- RMS Meter
- Mean Square
- Amplifier


Popped the hood to see what it's like inside. Found a bug fossilized on the chassis. Probably explains why the instrument acts weirdly, the bug must have corrupted the firmware on the CPU board, bummer  :palm:


so I tried to power it up... because I just can't help, I am curious...

It's american but thanks to my 25+ collection of hollow-state Tek scopes I have.... one, just one power cable...

Buzzed the socket. Ground pin makes good contact with the chassis, no short anywhere, primary reads 20+ ohms.... good.
So I fired it up through my Dim bulb tester, which lit very.. dimly. Let it there for a couple minute to let caps reform... bulb still dim, good.
Could see some tubes inside light up a bit, good too.

So I removed the DBT to give full power to the instrument, crossing fingers..... yeah, works fine, does not trip any breaker !  8)

Pilot lamp does not light because... I checked, there is no bulb behind the red cover  ::)

The meter movement looks nice and in like new condition. Razor shaprt needle and equipped with a mirror.

I applied a signal to the input with my sig gen. THe meter does react... in weird and wonderful ways, depending what position you set the range switch to....

One some ranges it behaves almost sensibly, though it reads way off. I will contact the manufacturer and ask for my money back.

At the least it's clear that the meter movement can move freely from left to right, so that's the most important I guess.
The rest if just tubes and circuitry, it can be replaced / fixed.

Boat anchors are worth nothing here, so again I am offering free to a good home... before I take it apart to salvage what can be.

« Last Edit: December 11, 2022, 05:05:22 pm by Vince »
 
The following users thanked this post: factory, TERRA Operative, Zoli


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf