Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 15736580 times)

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Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132350 on: December 11, 2022, 05:13:35 pm »
Quote
Well that meter movement is HUGE... for my load enclosure, the available real estate to fit a meter is minuscule,
your attacking it from the wrong end,chuck the load in the meter case

Quote
I don't have technical means to print a news scale for it, I need amps not watt
wot you aint got tippex and a sharpie? or a printer and glue.

id bite yer hand of for that meter if you was in the uk ,but wouldn't trust it getting here  in a working condition if a postie or courier  was  involved


I can pack it well don't worry.. it's small so I can put lots of padding material all around it... I am sure it would arrive intact.
If really you want it it's yours !!!
I will declare a next to zero value so you don't have customs to pay.

I just checked shipping cost. It's 24 Euros for the Euro zone. for the UK they add a 3 Euros supplement because of Brexit they say.
So that would be 27 Euros total (I would still have to pay for the packing but that's not too expensive).

Checking currency exchange rates, 27 Euros is about 23 pounds.

 

Offline Zoli

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132351 on: December 11, 2022, 05:23:06 pm »
Quote
Well that meter movement is HUGE... for my load enclosure, the available real estate to fit a meter is minuscule,
your attacking it from the wrong end,chuck the load in the meter case

Quote
I don't have technical means to print a news scale for it, I need amps not watt
wot you aint got tippex and a sharpie? or a printer and glue.

id bite yer hand of for that meter if you was in the uk ,but wouldn't trust it getting here  in a working condition if a postie or courier  was  involved


I can pack it well don't worry.. it's small so I can put lots of padding material all around it... I am sure it would arrive intact.
If really you want it it's yours !!!
I will declare a next to zero value so you don't have customs to pay.

I just checked shipping cost. It's 24 Euros for the Euro zone. for the UK they add a 3 Euros supplement because of Brexit they say.
So that would be 27 Euros total (I would still have to pay for the packing but that's not too expensive).

Checking currency exchange rates, 27 Euros is about 23 pounds.
If you sending out a meter with movement, add/solder short directly to the meter, and label to the front of the glass about the short; that's the minimal protection you can add to protect the meter movement mechanics.
 
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Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132352 on: December 11, 2022, 05:29:01 pm »
Yes I remember seeing that advice ages ago in one of W2AEW's YT video....

I don't think I will be selling this meter, too much trouble packing it to get 20 bucks top in return.

Will try putting it up for sale locally maybe. If someone by miracle is close enough to me to come pick it up... you never know.

 

Online PA0PBZ

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132353 on: December 11, 2022, 08:13:18 pm »
4 of the tubes in there are too white to my liking, maybe it's just the way the picture was taken but it really looks like the vacuum escaped...


Keyboard error: Press F1 to continue.
 

Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132354 on: December 11, 2022, 08:48:25 pm »
Because of you I spent 30 minutes of my sunday evening.... washing the tubes in this thing....

No white anywhere, Sir !

Not a trace.

The new pics still look crap, so you will have to believe me sorry, but all these tubes without exception, up close in the flesh... look in tip top shape.

Their tops, inside, is covered in silver, the getter maybe I don't know. The mix of that silver "cap", coated with the thick layer of dust + the lab light hitting them.... maybe it looked whitish to you ?

But no, once washed they all look like new.

One of these tubes, a 6DJ8, had GOLD PLATED pins !!!  :wtf:
Geez.... first time I see a golden tube....

 
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Offline Black Phoenix

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132355 on: December 12, 2022, 03:48:45 am »



There is definitely a "bug" in the design...
 

Offline graybeard

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132356 on: December 12, 2022, 04:02:26 am »
This is my new 2K/V meter!   I paid $0.25 for it at the W6TRW swap meet.  It works too!
 
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Offline Messtechniker

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132357 on: December 12, 2022, 07:01:51 am »
It seems the black cable is damaged. :scared:
And because of this I would not trust the
insulation of the red cable. Better check
insulation resistance of both cables before
measuring higher voltages.
Be careful.
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Offline Zoli

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132358 on: December 12, 2022, 02:07:13 pm »
It seems the black cable is damaged. :scared:
And because of this I would not trust the
insulation of the red cable. Better check
insulation resistance of both cables before
measuring higher voltages.
Be careful.
He meant 2kΩ/V, not 2kV; I've misread it at first, too.
 

Online ch_scr

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132359 on: December 12, 2022, 02:34:08 pm »
It seems the black cable is damaged. :scared:
And because of this I would not trust the
insulation of the red cable. Better check
insulation resistance of both cables before
measuring higher voltages.
Be careful.
He meant 2kΩ/V, not 2kV; I've misread it at first, too.
Now I can't really see what the excitement is all about? If it were an 20k \$\Omega\$/V, now that would start to get interesting!
 

Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132360 on: December 12, 2022, 05:36:02 pm »
Can't see the excitement for a 20k / V either.... 20k was the norm for any decent meter back in the day, and what Tek manuals tell you to use IIRC.
When you get above 20k OK it's better than the crowd..
 

Offline Messtechniker

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132361 on: December 12, 2022, 07:04:37 pm »
I mean 500V full scale AC and DC, and we should not
worry about the cable insulation? :horse:
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Online ch_scr

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132362 on: December 12, 2022, 07:05:44 pm »
I mean 500V full scale AC and DC, and we should not
worry about the cable insulation? :horse:
Don't touch it with wet hands, and you'll be fine  >:D
 

Online tautech

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132363 on: December 12, 2022, 07:22:41 pm »
I mean 500V full scale AC and DC, and we should not
worry about the cable insulation? :horse:
Certainly you should.

After finding a 3kV Avo the next battle was to find the nice supple OEM AVO leads and in good order, 100% required when working at those voltages ! .....almost as hard as finding a really tidy Avo or one that hasn't been converted into a lamp holder.  :horse:

I certainly don't miss mucking with CRO EHT voltages.  :scared:
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Offline factory

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132364 on: December 12, 2022, 07:51:22 pm »




Another one from the haul :

A rack mount Ballantine Laboratories, type 320A, made in the USA, rings a bell ?

Found a manual for the type 320 not 320A.
All hollow state technology inside.

It's an RMS voltmeter, but a real one.
I didn't even know one could make such fancy things as an RMS meter in the hollow-state era... apparently you could.

According to the stuff makred on the front panel, it can go up to 4MHz and handle a crest factor of 5 or even 15 depending how you use it.
Not too shabby eh ?

Quite a wide dynamic range as well, full scale from 300µV up to 300V.

The "mode" switch gives you 4 choices : 

- Null Detector
- RMS Meter
- Mean Square
- Amplifier


Popped the hood to see what it's like inside. Found a bug fossilized on the chassis. Probably explains why the instrument acts weirdly, the bug must have corrupted the firmware on the CPU board, bummer  :palm:


so I tried to power it up... because I just can't help, I am curious...

It's american but thanks to my 25+ collection of hollow-state Tek scopes I have.... one, just one power cable...

Buzzed the socket. Ground pin makes good contact with the chassis, no short anywhere, primary reads 20+ ohms.... good.
So I fired it up through my Dim bulb tester, which lit very.. dimly. Let it there for a couple minute to let caps reform... bulb still dim, good.
Could see some tubes inside light up a bit, good too.

So I removed the DBT to give full power to the instrument, crossing fingers..... yeah, works fine, does not trip any breaker !  8)

Pilot lamp does not light because... I checked, there is no bulb behind the red cover  ::)

The meter movement looks nice and in like new condition. Razor shaprt needle and equipped with a mirror.

I applied a signal to the input with my sig gen. THe meter does react... in weird and wonderful ways, depending what position you set the range switch to....

One some ranges it behaves almost sensibly, though it reads way off. I will contact the manufacturer and ask for my money back.

At the least it's clear that the meter movement can move freely from left to right, so that's the most important I guess.
The rest if just tubes and circuitry, it can be replaced / fixed.

Boat anchors are worth nothing here, so again I am offering free to a good home... before I take it apart to salvage what can be.



That's different then, don't think HP had any hollow state era TRMS voltmeters, that I can think of anyway.

Note: if that uses a choob rectifier, the dim-bulb procedure I've seen shango066 using, is to temporarily replace the rectifier with a solid state version and start with a low wattage bulb in the DBT. The rectifier diode choob heater will prevent you bringing it up slowly to reform caps, assuming there is anything left to reform, as sometimes they are completely open circuit. Also monitor the HT voltage to make sure you don't go over the normal HT voltage with the solid state diodes.

David
 

Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132365 on: December 12, 2022, 08:10:46 pm »
Dave you are not helping me here.... I am supposed to flog this thing as is and move on to the next TE.

But now I feel you want to me to spend time on the thging as if I were to restore it ?
You want to give me work ?

Naughty....

OK maybe I can spend a couple evenings on the thing before I put it up for sale.

If you find a manual for the type 302A I have, gimme a shout.
In the meantime I will work with the manual I found for the vanilla type 320, hoping there is not much difference between the two... hoping.

I will try to figure out what the voltage rails are, and where to measure them.

If I see 300V instead of 200V, with 50Vrms ripple, is that good or not ?! >:D

Yes it's a tube rectifier, you can see it in my pictures. It's a nice big old fashioned "shouldered" type tube, like you probably have in your old radios...

 

Offline factory

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132366 on: December 12, 2022, 08:28:51 pm »
Just had a look on ePay.com at completed listings, Ballantine VTVMs don't seem to sell very well, lucky to get $20 to $50 for one, the manual costs as much as they are worth.  |O
The 321 is supposed to be similar but with extra functions (according to the catalog) but no free manual either.

Not sure it's worth repairing & flogging, you would probably need to change all the paper caps, would be rather time consuming for not much return.

One for the US members, is the Ballantine 323 TRMS voltmeter better or worse, than the HP 3400A?

David
 

Offline Peter_O

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132367 on: December 12, 2022, 09:43:54 pm »
After putting some use  on the Ruhstrat tranformer one of the banana jacks has broken.


Time to change oll 6 of them.



They are fully insulated ones and the old plastic had to endure the mechanical stress of the backside nut.
The front plate holes are 10mm in diameter. Connectors are 6mm spade.

I can only find modern 12mm fully insulated jacks, which would be kind of weird in that old device.
https://www.conrad.de/de/p/staeubli-slb4-f6-3-n-x-sicherheits-laborbuchse-buchse-einbau-schwarz-1-st-1678340.html

Binding posts would have 7mm plastic sockets to fit into the front plate. So I would have to 3d print some weird adapters.

Do you have a better idea?
Personally, I'd uprate them all to 12mm fully insulated and not worry about the appearances, but enjoy the gear.

After some of you gave ideas and advice I will not withhold the result.

I went for the isolated modern sockets but chose muted colors and drilled the holes from 10mm to 12mm, which worked out fine.



Changed the fixed power chord to a socket with fuse, put in new thermofuses, a SI rectifier for the old selenium one and new rubber feet. Some flat plugs had been badly crimped and were changed to.
Overall it's a nice and usable deivce now.  :)
« Last Edit: December 12, 2022, 09:48:12 pm by Peter_O »
 
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Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132368 on: December 12, 2022, 09:50:26 pm »
Just had a look on ePay.com at completed listings, Ballantine VTVMs don't seem to sell very well, lucky to get $20 to $50 for one, the manual costs as much as they are worth.  |O
The 321 is supposed to be similar but with extra functions (according to the catalog) but no free manual either.

Not sure it's worth repairing & flogging, you would probably need to change all the paper caps, would be rather time consuming for not much return.

One for the US members, is the Ballantine 323 TRMS voltmeter better or worse, than the HP 3400A?

David

The type 320 manual is no use for my 320A  >:(

Yes, not worth doing and restoration on this thing before selling it. Either I sell it as is, which was my intent all along, or I restore it to keep it for myseld.

Problem is, restoring this thing would be costly, time consuming and a pain, given how it's built, if not unrealistic / impossible, given the absence of manual / schematics for it.

Trouble is, I don't have a need ot enough love for this thing to embark in a restoration, I am choosing my restoration battles now, and thi sTE does not fit in the picture.

I feel guilty.. because it's technically a really cool piece.. a true RMS meter made from hollow-state tech, I must say I am quite stunned.
But I have no use for this thing and no room to keep boat anchors I will never restore / use.

OTHO I can get myself to tak eit apart for parts.... it's worth much more than the sum of its parts. It deserves to live for sure....
so I need to find it a good home that will restore it..... yes I know I am dreaming.
So I will stick my plan.... sell it as is. I did the basic safety checks, powered it up, there is life in it, so it can probably be fixed.... so I can sell it as such.
It's in good nick inside out, it's not a rust bucket at all. Just a bit dusty inside so needs a little wash. Outside I can give it a clean to make it more presentable, but that's as far as it will go.

I will advertise it at 50 Euros to begin with, and offer shipping. I mean... not going to pay for shipping, just offering the option to ship....
I really want a good home for it, so I am wiling to pay for card board boxes and packing material and go through the hassle of packing it.... if it can help it find a new loving home.

If I advertise it for less than 50 Euros, it might start attracting the tube hoarders so I might as well take the instrument apart myself....

So that's the plan... I will clean the front panel, put it up for sale for 50 Euros, and if I have no takers in 3 months.... I will reluctantly scrap it for parts... and feel guilty for the rest of my life :palm:
 

Online tautech

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132369 on: December 12, 2022, 10:05:53 pm »
How's the Quad amp fix going Vince ?
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Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132370 on: December 12, 2022, 10:19:00 pm »
I still need to order the replacement transistors but they are too expensive it kills me. If I take two of each type, 4 trannies total, it's 10 Euros  + 10 more Euros for shipping, from that "Dada" website.

20 Euros for 4 TO39 trannies... makes me sick, so I have not pulled the trigger.

Need to check in the US at MouserKey to see if they are cheaper. Then I would pad the order with expensive stuff I need, like flux and solder wick, and misc stuff.

Also I in my Farnell order a months ago I bought 2 x4 pin DIN connectors so I can make a decent looking cable to connect the pre-amp to the power amp.... but they did not deliver thos connectors somehow.
I e-mailed them a few days ago about it.... no reply. so I paid 5 Euros for nothing. I am "pleased".... no. So I need to buy them again, pfff...





« Last Edit: December 12, 2022, 10:20:46 pm by Vince »
 

Online tautech

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132371 on: December 12, 2022, 10:31:29 pm »
You might be better to change to the more popular 5 pin DIN.


20 Euros for 4 TO39 trannies... makes me sick, so I have not pulled the trigger.

Exactly what flavor/model were they again ?
Maybe stick an add in our Buy/Sell/Wanted
« Last Edit: December 12, 2022, 10:33:33 pm by tautech »
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Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132372 on: December 12, 2022, 10:42:32 pm »
2N5320 and 5322.
 

Offline duckduck

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132373 on: December 12, 2022, 10:55:10 pm »
Seems like the seller knows he's the cheapest option. Not sure if I would swallow the additional 60$ to make it nice and have one, or send it back and pray for a bargain "next year". I sure get the feeling of beeing cheated here, but maybe at least sleep over it before sending it back?

I was able to work it out with the seller. He gave me a partial refund for the undead fan and will support me in a claim to UPS for the broken handle if I decide to go that route. I may just braze the handle and call it a day. So, I'm ordering a new fan and keeping the signal generator. It ticks multiple boxes:
  • [(hp)]
  • Rack mount
  • Almost old enough to be a sibling of mine
  • LED display

Also, FedEx just delivered a box from Rigol in Beaverton, Oregon. A post on that acquisition is forthcoming.
 
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Offline duckduck

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #132374 on: December 13, 2022, 01:00:02 am »
New acquisition:

Rigol DG812 2-channel 10/5 MHz AWG

This is the 2-channel version of their cheapest DG811 model. I bought it for USD215 (delivered) from Rigol off of their clearance page, which is worth checking out every now and then if you live in the USA.

https://www.rigolna.com/clearance/

It currently thinks that it is a DG812, but I understand that these DG800/DG900 models all use the same hardware and can be hacked into thinking that they are any model you like:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg2420391/#msg2420391

This will replace my existing Rigol DG1022 AWG.

EDIT:

It's touch-screen. From all of the cranky old man comments in the EEVBlog thread on these Rigol AWGs, I thought that the touchscreen would be awful but it is fine, very much like a touch-screen HVAC thermostat. Not incredible, not awful. The power switch is tiny and cute, like they stole it from a piece of TE out of a doll house.

https://www.rigolna.com/products/waveform-generators/dg900/

EDIT EDIT:

Wow! It takes 39.6 seconds to boot. I timed it. I can microwave a hot dog in less time than that.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2022, 05:51:21 am by duckduck »
 
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