Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 20863494 times)

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Offline duckduck

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133100 on: February 22, 2023, 04:48:07 pm »
Hi everyone,

I just bought a used Rigol MSO5074 and apparently the previous owner was a smoker and it reeks of old cigarette smoke.

As the scope still has over a year left of warranty, I would like to avoid dismantling the scope and breaking the seal.

Is there a good way to get rid of the smell? I tried packing it with grind coffee for over a week, but nothing changed :/

thanks for your help!

I've had good luck with cleaning (I used methanol and a brush, but any cleaner would probably work) and then putting it in a box with an ozonator for a while (outside, duh). There is going to be smoke residue in the guts. I'm pretty sure you're going to have to break the seal to get it clean.

EDIT:

I should have read before I posted. Everyone already responded to this.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2023, 04:58:43 pm by duckduck »
 

Offline McBryce

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133101 on: February 22, 2023, 06:08:42 pm »
You're aware there was a minor curfuffle a few weeks ago, right? :scared:

No I haven't been online since Thursday last week. Did I miss something? Let me know in a PM if you think it might stir something up again by mentioning it.

McBryce.
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Offline BU508A

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133102 on: February 22, 2023, 06:34:47 pm »
You're aware there was a minor curfuffle a few weeks ago, right? :scared:

No I haven't been online since Thursday last week. Did I miss something? Let me know in a PM if you think it might stir something up again by mentioning it.

McBryce.

He is referring to the incident in August 2022.
“Chaos is found in greatest abundance wherever order is being sought. It always defeats order, because it is better organized.”            - Terry Pratchett -
 

Offline factory

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133103 on: February 22, 2023, 09:58:06 pm »
Hi everyone,

I just bought a used Rigol MSO5074 and apparently the previous owner was a smoker and it reeks of old cigarette smoke.

As the scope still has over a year left of warranty, I would like to avoid dismantling the scope and breaking the seal.

Is there a good way to get rid of the smell? I tried packing it with grind coffee for over a week, but nothing changed :/

thanks for your help!

I've had good luck with cleaning (I used methanol and a brush, but any cleaner would probably work) and then putting it in a box with an ozonator for a while (outside, duh). There is going to be smoke residue in the guts. I'm pretty sure you're going to have to break the seal to get it clean.

EDIT:

I should have read before I posted. Everyone already responded to this.

I don't think anyone suggested returning it for a full refund and buying a much nicer classic from Tek or HP.   ;)

David
 
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Offline McBryce

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133104 on: February 23, 2023, 08:04:04 am »
You're aware there was a minor curfuffle a few weeks ago, right? :scared:

No I haven't been online since Thursday last week. Did I miss something? Let me know in a PM if you think it might stir something up again by mentioning it.

McBryce.

Oh that. I was only gone 5 days, not 5 months :D

McBryce.

He is referring to the incident in August 2022.
30 Years making cars more difficult to repair.
 

Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133105 on: February 23, 2023, 07:55:09 pm »
Tek 7603 Scope restoration

Been working on the thing here and there. There is good and bad.

1) Display randomly deciding to move up and down : recapping the Vertical amp board did nothing. Next candidate : the two wires / pins for the deflection plates, that plug into the CRT glass. Those pins were extremely loose. Simply the "springiness" of the short piece of PVC insulated wire that was connecting them to the amp board, would be constantly on the verge of pulling the pins out of the CRT, at least partially.

So I "worked" those pins a bit to get a tighter fit... but sadly that fixed nothing. Trouble now being that the only way I can see for this kind of random and wild abrupt vertical movements would be ... if the bad contact i snot in the pins... then it's probably a spot weld inside the CRT itself. Given the huge hit this scope suffered during shipping, it's all too plausible. Which means this scope is doomed... the problem will never go away and can only get worse and worse and one day hell, the welds might give up the ghost completely and the scope will be in the darkness forever.




2) Mixed sweep would not engage on one of my two horizontal plugins. I noticed earlier that the little red CAL knob supposed to engage mixed sweep, would not come out nearly as much as it should. So I was hoping for a simple / quick to diagnose mechanical issue rather an electrical issue. I got lucky, obvious mechanical issue it was indeed : THe metal frame of the switch is held in place with little tabs bent 90° under the switch... typical construction. Well the tabs worked their way out and the switch is not holding together anymore, and it's jammed. I managed to force it back together again. It's still extremely but at least it's not jammed anymore and can now work. I tested the plugin, works perfectly. I would need to desolder the switch to work on it properly and bend the 4 tabs properly under the switch... but getting to the solder side of the PCB looks like quite an endeavour so not sure I will bother  :-[




3) One of the 3 light bulbs that illuminate the CRT graticule... is blown. Trouble is : it's not readily available and the "best" deal I could find wa sa pack of 5 from the UK for 50 Euros  + 13 Euros shipping + VAT + Customs tax shit = No thank you.

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/254645639849

4) The RF shield on the mainframe, by the left most plugin location, is mangled. Great.



5) CRT bezel : there is a 3 pin electrical connector on the left edge, to power the Tek film camera. Other than begin heavily yellowed... its plastic is very.. very brittle and is shattering like glass. I don't intend to ever use a vintage camera on my scopes so I just got rid of that connector altogether. Looks much nicer/cleaner. I think there exists a "plug" / place holder.



Other than that, I finally cleaned the front panel, much nicer to interact with, no need for gloves any more.
The ivory buttons need retrobrigthing but I am not risking these for now... want to experiment first on donour buttons. Need to find some cheap Tek TE in a sad state that I could steal the buttons from and "train" on.

I noticed that my vertical plugins are not equal... cosmetics-wise. One one of them the inpu coupling switch is nice and black, as are the CAL "pop-up" knobs. However on the other plugins these knobs look like they suffered heavy sun damage, they are heavily discouloured. Black turned in light grey....



So I guess that's the end of the road for ths scope. I am already 120 Euros into it, time to stop. Can't justify throwing another 100 at tit to resolve the minor remaining issues especially since it's now probable the CRT is damaged.
I will do the retrobrighting as that's cheap and make using the scope that much more pleasurable. But 70+ Euros to replace a light bulb no, not gonna happen. RF shield, unless someone has one for free laying around, I can't justify paying XXX Euros for that one little piece.

So I guess it's time to move on to the next piece of TE....

« Last Edit: February 23, 2023, 07:59:57 pm by Vince »
 
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Offline factory

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133106 on: February 23, 2023, 08:24:39 pm »
That ePay seller is taking the complete & utter piss  :o, looked up the Tek R7903 manual I downloaded the other day, lamp is either #349 (6.3V 200mA) or #7381 wire end version, depending on serial number.

#349 from Mouser, £1.14 + tax for one;
https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/VCC/349?qs=qp111mKzDji2smQV4AO1BQ%3D%3D

#7381 from Mouser £1.45 + tax for one;
https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/VCC/7381?qs=N8%252Bk0S5zvCZ7dMEMH2XU9Q%3D%3D

David
 
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Offline factory

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133107 on: February 23, 2023, 09:30:17 pm »
Got an earlier than expected delivery yesterday, a few PCB designs for my HP TE.  :)

The clone of the missing 5326-60015 board for my HP 5327B, with fools-gold plating.  :-DD





Various adaptor boards to replace obsolete custom ICs, first two designs are four layer, the rest two layer.







I put in an order with Mouser last night, for some ICs to complete the prototype IC replacement boards (only place that sells 74LS90 in SOIC), hopefully the boards will work.  :scared:

David
« Last Edit: February 23, 2023, 09:42:20 pm by factory »
 
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Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133108 on: February 23, 2023, 09:59:08 pm »
That ePay seller is taking the complete & utter piss  :o, looked up the Tek R7903 manual I downloaded the other day, lamp is either #349 (6.3V 200mA) or #7381 wire end version, depending on serial number.

#349 from Mouser, £1.14 + tax for one;
https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/VCC/349?qs=qp111mKzDji2smQV4AO1BQ%3D%3D

#7381 from Mouser £1.45 + tax for one;
https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/VCC/7381?qs=N8%252Bk0S5zvCZ7dMEMH2XU9Q%3D%3D

David

Thanks !

Actually my scope uses neither types you mention but almost. It uses a #398 but it's very close to the #349. Same electrical specs 6.3V 200mA, same size T1 3/4, but slightly different shape. #349 is a Midget "Flange" and the #398 I need is a Midget "Groove".  Searched in Mouser, they do have ONE Midget Groove... not a #389 sadly but a #337 :

https://www.mouser.fr/ProductDetail/JKL-Components/337?qs=gp8goBkfC5Erk2dIxlLODg%3D%3D

The datasheet for it lists also the #389, so I could compare the two.  #337 is 6V not 6.3, and produces more light, and lasts only 1,000 Hours versus 5,000.
But... that should be good enough for my purposes here...  It's also cheap : only 0.84 Euros before tax. 
OK so I will add that to my next and first order to Mouser.

EDIT : checked Digikey as well, they DO list the #398 I need, but... says it's " OBSOLETE, not made any longer".

OK so... looks like the #337 is the closest we get today to the old  #398.

So the bulb situation is sorted it looks like, great.... except for one tiny stupid detail : HOW do I extract / install the bulbs ?
I need one of these special little tools that can grab the bulb firmly without breaking it. If someone knows where I can get these things....

The blown bulb I was able to extract because it was already broken ! Some previous owner tried to extract it unsuccessfully.
As for me, I managed to extract it by grabbing the now exposed inner side of the metal envelope using tweezers, but without that special nifty tool I don't know how I would be able to insert the new bulbs. New that tool...


EDIT : hmmm... give that "Grooved" shape.... I guess there is no twisting or rotating action required to insert the new bulbs...I should be able to just push onto them and they would "click" into place magically ?  That's cool. Still need that little tool to be able extract the old bulbs safely though...

EDIT #2 : oh, looks like that mega rip-off UK Ebay add was not for me not matter what : looks it's Midget Flange not Midget Groove, so no go for me ! No regrets then...

Sorry I am learning that old bulb stuff as I go, there are so many types and variations, one could write a PhD thesis on these little things...  ;D


« Last Edit: February 23, 2023, 10:14:20 pm by Vince »
 

Offline factory

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133109 on: February 23, 2023, 10:12:25 pm »
Good thing you checked the R7603 manual and had a look at what was fitted, nice of Tek not to standardize on one type, the overpriced  :palm: ePay one is the wrong type too.

David
« Last Edit: February 23, 2023, 10:17:03 pm by factory »
 

Offline extremgear

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133110 on: February 25, 2023, 03:54:13 pm »
Hello,
i would to introduce my dumb idea of the day : buy expansive unadapted screws to the local store and machine special washer to adapt them... at least my TE have screw now. |O
 
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Online TERRA Operative

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133111 on: February 25, 2023, 06:03:34 pm »
Hey Vince, what about some warm white LED's and appropriate resistors instead of unobtanium incandescent bulbs?
Where does all this test equipment keep coming from?!?

https://www.youtube.com/NearFarMedia/
 

Offline Zoli

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133112 on: February 25, 2023, 06:19:24 pm »
Hey Vince, what about some warm white LED's and appropriate resistors instead of unobtanium incandescent bulbs?
Placed in the original sockets, of course  :-DD :-DD :-DD
Teasing Vince: in my pretty big collection, I have some EMI foams(not springs, like originally in the 7603); care to give me some sizes of the springs(width, length, height)?
 

Online TERRA Operative

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133113 on: February 25, 2023, 06:31:25 pm »
Hey Vince, what about some warm white LED's and appropriate resistors instead of unobtanium incandescent bulbs?
Placed in the original sockets, of course  :-DD :-DD :-DD
Teasing Vince: in my pretty big collection, I have some EMI foams(not springs, like originally in the 7603); care to give me some sizes of the springs(width, length, height)?

Oh! Just gut the old globes down to the metal base and stuff an LED and resistor inside. ;)
Use inverted cone LED's and give the outside of them a little love with some emery paper to diffuse the light maybe, and there might be a workable and fully reversible solution right there.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2023, 06:45:20 pm by TERRA Operative »
Where does all this test equipment keep coming from?!?

https://www.youtube.com/NearFarMedia/
 
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Offline Zoli

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133114 on: February 25, 2023, 06:43:34 pm »
...
Oh! Just gut the old globes down to the metal base and stuff an LED and resistor inside. ;)
I wish to have ONE test equipment(no matter which) for every replaced light-bulb from the socket(yep, they closing on 100's)...
 

Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133115 on: February 25, 2023, 07:48:51 pm »
Teasing Vince: in my pretty big collection, I have some EMI foams(not springs, like originally in the 7603); care to give me some sizes of the springs(width, length, height)?



Took some measurements. The lenght of the spring, total lenght running all 3 plgins (it's a single piece for the entire length), is about 205mm.

Width is about 11mm. Maybe 11.5 but not 12, that would be too much.

Height ? difficult to measure practically.... I would say about 2mm uncompressed. Definitely not 3mm, that would be way too much.

When compressed ? Well, the thickness of the metal so I do'nt know, 0.1mm or something.

For now I guess the easiest is just to cut the damaged / mangled part of it and call it a day... I am sure the scope will work just fine....

 

Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133116 on: February 25, 2023, 07:59:57 pm »
Hey Vince, what about some warm white LED's and appropriate resistors instead of unobtanium incandescent bulbs?

Although that kind of anachronistic mod is not my thing usually, I did think of it, out of desperation.
However the practicality of it deterred me : getting to the bulb holder to play with it, requires MAJOR disassembling work. PLus I would need to assemble and disassemble it multiple times while refining / tuning the design. Too much work and hours to be worth the while, especially since the two remaining bulbs are enough to illuminate the graticule

Oh! Just gut the old globes down to the metal base and stuff an LED and resistor inside. ;)

You must be out of your mind... or maybe you used to work in Swiss watch fabrication in a previous life, before you started working on welding equipment... these bulbs are minuscule !!!! ....and I have big fingers and horrible eye sight.

I can't even remove them to begin with ! Need to buy a tool / rubber pipe to remove the two working bulbs. Only reason I managed to remove the burnt bulb is because its glass was already broken by a previous owner, so I could grab the metal part on its edge using tweezers... and even that, was not exactly fun.

So since we have now figured that bulb type #337 is a good enough equivalent to the original type #398, and is available and and affordable... there is no way I will go any other route, that would masochistic, and a huge waste of time. I have many other TE that need my attention...

 

Offline factory

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133117 on: February 25, 2023, 11:00:14 pm »
A little progress with the boards I had made for my HP counters, assembled the replacement 5326 board last night, with a few recycled parts and new IC sockets. I have the DTL ICs, the 8 pin custom IC is one of the new surface mount boards, can't finish that as I'm waiting for parts from Mouser.


Today I started on the adaptor boards, had no major problems with the tiny ICs. Might order some kapton tape to make it easier in the future, as I found it easy to accidentally fill the through holes near the SOIC IC.


I ended up ordering these to help with assembly, the Erem 7-SA tweezer was recommended in a few threads here, I've found them excellent, not lost any parts so far, I haven't tried the vacuum pen yet.


David
« Last Edit: February 25, 2023, 11:05:01 pm by factory »
 
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Offline Zoli

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133118 on: February 26, 2023, 04:13:35 pm »
Teasing Vince: in my pretty big collection, I have some EMI foams(not springs, like originally in the 7603); care to give me some sizes of the springs(width, length, height)?



Took some measurements. The lenght of the spring, total lenght running all 3 plgins (it's a single piece for the entire length), is about 205mm.

Width is about 11mm. Maybe 11.5 but not 12, that would be too much.

Height ? difficult to measure practically.... I would say about 2mm uncompressed. Definitely not 3mm, that would be way too much.

When compressed ? Well, the thickness of the metal so I do'nt know, 0.1mm or something.

For now I guess the easiest is just to cut the damaged / mangled part of it and call it a day... I am sure the scope will work just fine....
Here are some samples which looks like a good fit; they're available in half-moon shape, but buried too deep.
 
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Offline m k

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133119 on: February 26, 2023, 04:27:09 pm »

So since we have now figured that bulb type #337 is a good enough equivalent to the original type #398, and is available and and affordable... there is no way I will go any other route, that would masochistic, and a huge waste of time. I have many other TE that need my attention...

Seems that you are not going to plant mini Maglite bulb to old frame then.
Advance-Aneng-Appa-AVO-Beckman-Danbridge-Data Tech-Fluke-General Radio-H. W. Sullivan-Heathkit-HP-Kaise-Kyoritsu-Leeds & Northrup-Mastech-OR-X-REO-Simpson-Sinclair-Tektronix-Tokyo Rikosha-Topward-Triplett-Tritron-YFE
(plus lesser brands from the work shop of the world)
 

Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133120 on: February 26, 2023, 05:09:57 pm »


Teasing Vince: in my pretty big collection, I have some EMI foams(not springs, like originally in the 7603); care to give me some sizes of the springs(width, length, height)?
Took some measurements. The lenght of the spring, total lenght running all 3 plgins (it's a single piece for the entire length), is about 205mm.

Width is about 11mm. Maybe 11.5 but not 12, that would be too much.

Height ? difficult to measure practically.... I would say about 2mm uncompressed. Definitely not 3mm, that would be way too much.

When compressed ? Well, the thickness of the metal so I do'nt know, 0.1mm or something.

For now I guess the easiest is just to cut the damaged / mangled part of it and call it a day... I am sure the scope will work just fine....
Here are some samples which looks like a good fit; they're available in half-moon shape, but buried too deep.

Looks nice. If the width is not more than 11mm should fit.

Half moon sounds good, didn't even know it existed.... though it depends... if it's really HALF moon, it won't be appropriate I think, the plugin would catch on it. However if the moon crescent is right, shallow, it would be perfect. But they are buried so deep as I understand it, that we will never know !


Just realized there is one thing I forgot to mention strangely, because it's a show stopper for using this scope in practice : the cooling fan is freaking loud, unbearable.
Even when you turn the scope off, the fan still makes a horrible noise until it's 100% stopped.

I guess the bearing in it must be badly shot... too much for a lubrication service to bring it back to like, though I can try anyway I guess.

So I would be looking at a replacement fan. Looking at the parts list, it's made by " IMC Magnetics ", model MBS-2107F-0-1

115Vac , 46 CFM, 19 Watts, 200mA.

It does not state dimensions and bolt pattern though, so I would have to excavate it from the scope, more work.
It's a thick model.
Found one on Ebay :

https://www.ebay.com/itm/266068416615

Pictures there show the fan next to a measuring tape, though the latter is positioned in a strange way, not sure what the seller was trying to measure here.
Bad news is, it looks to be more than 10cm, but a bit less than 12cm. Which means it's not a standard size so I am screwed, great....  :palm:

Picture of mine from the PSU recapping archives :

« Last Edit: February 26, 2023, 05:16:05 pm by Vince »
 

Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133121 on: February 26, 2023, 05:17:01 pm »

So since we have now figured that bulb type #337 is a good enough equivalent to the original type #398, and is available and and affordable... there is no way I will go any other route, that would masochistic, and a huge waste of time. I have many other TE that need my attention...

Seems that you are not going to plant mini Maglite bulb to old frame then.

Indeed ! If just because I don't even have any idea what is this thing you are talking about ! :-//
 

Offline m k

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133122 on: February 26, 2023, 05:37:47 pm »
Just something where smaller one is inside a bigger one.
Then possibly unknown socket type wouldn't be a problem.
Advance-Aneng-Appa-AVO-Beckman-Danbridge-Data Tech-Fluke-General Radio-H. W. Sullivan-Heathkit-HP-Kaise-Kyoritsu-Leeds & Northrup-Mastech-OR-X-REO-Simpson-Sinclair-Tektronix-Tokyo Rikosha-Topward-Triplett-Tritron-YFE
(plus lesser brands from the work shop of the world)
 

Offline DC1MC

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133123 on: February 26, 2023, 06:35:41 pm »
Must be funny in the rich men land (that also need to se how much derating these capacitors suffer).

https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/messgeraet-lcr-meter-hp-4276a/2333312715-168-2457



Cheers from the zombieland,
DC1MC
 

Offline factory

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #133124 on: February 26, 2023, 09:25:22 pm »
Well I had no problems with the 0603 resistors, got a couple of the latch and display decoder adaptor boards completed, waiting for some ICs for the others, then I'll get the flux cleaned up too.


I had time to test two of the boards in the HP 5327B, the latch replacement works fine in both storage & none storage modes, I've not checked printer output yet, this is the inverted outputs, which I've since found out an extra gated function was available in the original IC, this will be added with rev B. I've yet to find anything that uses this function, but will add it anyway, in case I do in the future.

The display decoder driver replacement also works fine, zero blanking works as it's supposed too, just need to try it in another position, that has the zero blanking switched.

Need to make something to check the vertical boards, as the square pins won't go into the sockets, without damage. The horizontal boards are a tight fit in the 5326/7 (I removed the display shield for the test), they are intended for use in the 5216 & 5221/5321, which have limited vertical clearance, but more space in between ICs.


David
« Last Edit: February 26, 2023, 09:32:20 pm by factory »
 
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