Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[m k]

Spot the problem caused by tiredness, one of the reasons I avoid working on stuff on workday evenings.

What is in the middle of the left side small ones?
Lower pin 3.

The other thing is pretty much a standard issue.

[AVGresponding]

Hi All

Fairly new member here and I see this is a group therapy thread. I've got a bit of a 'problem' with PAT testers and I'm after your opinion if I need professional help 

*links provocatively*  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/354618700914

[Mad Axeman]

*links provocatively*  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/354618700914

I've already got one. I'm trying to control myself these days by not duplicating. It's a struggle but so far I'm almost in control - except for Seaward Supernovas. Don't know why but I just want to keep buying them 

[factory]

Spot the problem caused by tiredness, one of the reasons I avoid working on stuff on workday evenings.

What is in the middle of the left side small ones?
Lower pin 3.

The other thing is pretty much a standard issue.

Not sure exactly what you mean about the small boards (8pin), they do have internal layers for ground & +5V, the extra two holes are for a through hole capacitor, also flux still needs cleaning up.

The mistake is in the last picture, my work colleagues failed to spot it today, I had to point it out.

David

[themadhippy]

The mistake is in the last picture,

Im sure we've all done the same at some point,including diana ross

[AVGresponding]

*links provocatively*  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/354618700914

I've already got one. I'm trying to control myself these days by not duplicating. It's a struggle but so far I'm almost in control - except for Seaward Supernovas. Don't know why but I just want to keep buying them 

What, these old things?

[Mad Axeman]

What, these old things?

Ah, isn't she a thing of beauty     That one isn't an 'old thing'. That's one of the later models as it's got the red handle (and a colour screen). Not sure if it's a basic Supernova, a 'Plus' or an 'Elite' as they all look identical. It's not an 'XE' as they were 240v only (no 110v option on them). They are built like tanks, almost indistructable, probably the best user interface of any tester, downloadable and can test both 230v and 110v while plugged into 230v. The native SSS download format is a bit confusing. Each record length is different depending on the tests that were performed and some of the results have to be 'bit shifted', both of which does make writing software for it a bit confusing. Usually the only thing that goes wrong with these is the date backup battery. If ever you need to swap a Supernova battery I've written instructions here https://viewpat.co.uk/supernova/  The Kewtech KT77 is a 'badge engineered' version but with added USB data transfer.

Right, after the excitement of seeing a Supernova I'm now going to go for a lie down in a darkened room to try and calm myself 

[AVGresponding]

Right, after the excitement of seeing a Supernova I'm now going to go for a lie down in a darkened room to try and calm myself 

This one, while functional, demands to be serviced every time it's powered up. istr Robert saying this may be burned relay contacts for the earth continuity test, or something along those lines. What's your opinion?

[Mad Axeman]

This one, while functional, demands to be serviced every time it's powered up. istr Robert saying this may be burned relay contacts for the earth continuity test, or something along those lines. What's your opinion?

Is the message the same as this :-



If it is that just means the unit hasn't been calibrated for quite some time. There's nothing wrong with the unit. If it's a different message can you take a photo of it?
BTW, sorry about the condensation on the photo. The Supernova had just come out of a cold shed into a warm kitchen and I didn't notice the condensation until I edited the photo 

[AVGresponding]

Yep, that's the message. Is it possible to reset it without giving a pound of flesh to Seaward?

[Mad Axeman]

It doesn't have to go to Seaward. Any calibration company should be able to do it. I use Alpha Electronics in Newport. Around £60. There's loads of places advertise on Ebay for around £25. I've been trying to get the access codes from my calibration guy but he won't let me have them  :'(

[Vince]

Too bad.... 25 quid well qualifies for AVG's definiftion of " a pound of flesh " !

Definition starts roughly above 1.50 Pound all inclusive

[AVGresponding]

I can probably get it done free, at work.

[Vince]

Oops, I did -  it - agaiiin....

A Metrix MX53C in pristine condition in its original box for  50 Euros, 57 shipped.

https://www.leboncoin.fr/outillage_materiaux_2nd_oeuvre/2310097189.htm


Got lucky, just found it in my routine morning check of Leboncoin.fr , 20 minutes after the ad was posted, so I was first...

I don't know how many of these I have, long lost the count of them... all I know is that I now have one more. 

[AVGresponding]

They are nice meters though.

[Mad Axeman]

I can probably get it done free, at work.

That's what I do with most of my equipment. Tell the boss I use it for work and they pay. They won't do all the PATesters though. Only 1 of them  :'(
CEF used to do 'calibration days' where you can take stuff along and for a nominal fee they calibrate (more like take to a back room, print a cert. and hand it back!) and you get a bacon roll. Don't know if they still do.

[m k]

the extra two holes are for a through hole capacitor,

I thought I remember something and even if it's a tin splash it's probably not doing anything.
Mask is a good feature.

For the other thing,
it's less irritating than tilt, or some other eye poking feature.
Perfectly working thing but still poking, even when cover is closed.

[Robert763]

I have a Supernova too. And a PAT100i. The Supernova is a great bit of TE.
I hadn't looked at PAT guidance recently and was surprised (not) to see that IET have updated their Code Of Practice again. Now they are calling it ISITEE (in service inspection and test of electrical equipment) and trying to cover more fixed equipment. Last time thay did an update was because thay were told it it was too onerous with too frequent testing etc.
I really was initally surrised that the latest edition does no require the high current earth bond test for class 1 items. They say "emprical evidence" shows it does not detect many faults. I guess they have removed the test rather than admit the testers that can't do it are no good. I've seen plenty of  mains leads where the earth was down to a strand or two and could have fused before a 13A fuse. It may be rare but the consequences are high.

Robert.

[factory]

The mention of the radio repair a few pages back, reminded me I was going to have a look at the Marconi Macaroni TF2008/1 RF signal generator, that I acquired at a sale a few weeks ago.
The counter part was working fine when I first looked at it, but by the time the help enabler had arrived, it had a fault, one of the number readout bulbs had gone out, question was it the bulb or the driver IC.


Today it made it's way onto the desk in the living room today, got it apart enough to access the counter section (almost as many screws to remove as a Yamaha keyboard I was asked to fix recently), lots of Nat Semi ICs  were found, my bets were the driver IC, seeing as a few had already been replaced in the past.


To test this I measured the outputs from the 74141 in question, all outputs were around 60Vish, not really surprising no digits were lit on that number readout bulb, grounding one of the bulb pins confirmed it was OK.


The counter section was removed, as access to the back of the PCB looked difficult I removed all 6 driver ICs & fitted sockets, one shiny new 74141 clone restored the counter section back to full working order. 






A few more pictures of the counter section.


Lots of tricky to access capacitors throughout, for those that enjoy preforming a re-capicide. 


Another TF2008/I here, I don't think I'll be taking it apart as far, unless there are other problems.
https://www.crowave.com/blog/2021/10/07/signal-generator-marconi-tf-2008-i/

David

[Mad Axeman]

I have a Supernova too. And a PAT100i. The Supernova is a great bit of TE.
I hadn't looked at PAT guidance recently and was surprised (not) to see that IET have updated their Code Of Practice again. Now they are calling it ISITEE (in service inspection and test of electrical equipment) and trying to cover more fixed equipment. Last time thay did an update was because thay were told it it was too onerous with too frequent testing etc.
I really was initally surrised that the latest edition does no require the high current earth bond test for class 1 items. They say "emprical evidence" shows it does not detect many faults. I guess they have removed the test rather than admit the testers that can't do it are no good. I've seen plenty of  mains leads where the earth was down to a strand or two and could have fused before a 13A fuse. It may be rare but the consequences are high.

It's been officially known as ISITEE for quite some time, as you say, to cover more non portable stuff. I think the 'next test due' date was removed from the stickers at the same update. I can see the point in that though. The general public see the next due date and assume it's fine. A bit like a car MOT. It could have been tested 11 months ago but the sticker says it's not due so it must be fine. I agree with you on the earth bond. I much prefer a 10 or 25A test. As you say, if it's down to a couple of strands a good high current will sort it out. I'm pretty lucky, the only PA Testing I do is for the guys in the team I work for. Just the stuff on their vans. It does makes a change from my day job crawling all over generator transformers at power stations. There is no way I could spend my life doing PAT. I do like pulling the testers apart though. Just swapped the data backup battery on a Metrotest MPAT 60 as there was nothing interesting on TV.

[TERRA Operative]

Been poking away at a few things over the last few days since getting back from Canada.

Had a go at my old-style PG506 again. Something appears to be pulling the 5V rail down and subsequently killing all the power in the unit.
I took the chance to remove the broken front faceplate to draw it up in CAD to get a replacement machines from PCBWay (pending the results on the SG504 one on its way to me now I made as a test and to replace the broken faceplate on that unit).
I also did the same for my DM502 too, it was well smashed up, so it'll get a new faceplate too for fun then get sold off.

I also had another poke at my Tek 212 portable scope. It has a problem with a fuzzy trace on channel 1, but only in the '5' timebase settings. I think it may be a bad 155-0083-00 opamp. Anyone got a spare one they don't need?

And I also had another poke at the old crappy Trio (Kenwood) 30MHz scope. I found one of the bodge capacitors on the horixontal/trigger board was shorting one of it's exposed legs to a random part of the PCB (After spending hours poking at everything else...  ), I've spent waaayyyyyyyy too much time on this thing over the years (I's been staring at me for longer than my son has been alive, I guess at least 6-7 years...) so once I get a new X-channel vertical position potentiometer (a standard 1K pot), hopefully it finally works so I can sell it or give it away.


I have ended up with a bit of a list of parts I need for stuff. If anyone has any of these parts, please let me know!

- #4-40 x 0.375 (3/8") pozi flat head/countersunk screw - Bottom right front panel screw on my late PG506
- 155-0083-00 - opamp used in the 212 and 214 portable scopes
- 151-0342-00 - MPS4249 / 2N4249 / 2N5086 transistor
- 366-2082-00 - Amplitude knob to suit late PG506 and PG506A (Or accurate measurements to enable me to 3D model and then 3D print a knob).
- KC-89-108 Kings Electrical BNC Connector Shell (and plastic insert if you have it) to suit Tektronix attenuators (the green 5x attenuator in my case)


That's all for the latest from the house of hoarding here.

[Zoli]

...
- #4-40 x 0.375 (3/8") pozi flat head/countersunk screw - Bottom right front panel screw on my late PG506
...

Good luck for the pozidrive heads; with Philips, the question is: How many do you need?
A quick sample(1", not 3/8"):

[AVGresponding]

I have a Supernova too. And a PAT100i. The Supernova is a great bit of TE.
I hadn't looked at PAT guidance recently and was surprised (not) to see that IET have updated their Code Of Practice again. Now they are calling it ISITEE (in service inspection and test of electrical equipment) and trying to cover more fixed equipment. Last time thay did an update was because thay were told it it was too onerous with too frequent testing etc.
I really was initally surrised that the latest edition does no require the high current earth bond test for class 1 items. They say "emprical evidence" shows it does not detect many faults. I guess they have removed the test rather than admit the testers that can't do it are no good. I've seen plenty of  mains leads where the earth was down to a strand or two and could have fused before a 13A fuse. It may be rare but the consequences are high.

It's been officially known as ISITEE for quite some time, as you say, to cover more non portable stuff. I think the 'next test due' date was removed from the stickers at the same update. I can see the point in that though. The general public see the next due date and assume it's fine. A bit like a car MOT. It could have been tested 11 months ago but the sticker says it's not due so it must be fine. I agree with you on the earth bond. I much prefer a 10 or 25A test. As you say, if it's down to a couple of strands a good high current will sort it out. I'm pretty lucky, the only PA Testing I do is for the guys in the team I work for. Just the stuff on their vans. It does makes a change from my day job crawling all over generator transformers at power stations. There is no way I could spend my life doing PAT. I do like pulling the testers apart though. Just swapped the data backup battery on a Metrotest MPAT 60 as there was nothing interesting on TV.

I suspect they are playing the numbers game and relying on the fact that class 2 is increasingly more prevalent, at least outside of commercial/industrial kitchens etc.

We're currently refurbing a sports centre, and obviously one of the first orders of business is to get temporary 110V power and lighting set up. We use LED festoon these days, and boy does it save on the number of transformers...
Anyway, we set some apprentices to put it up, with instructions to drill walls and cut the festoon and fit IEC 60309 plugs and couplers to rejoin them, rather than running the cables through doorframes where they stop fire doors from closing, jam doors, and the cable gets crushed. After they finished, I was in the toilets washing my hands and glanced up at the end of a live festoon cable, only to see it had been terminated into a plug...

[TERRA Operative]

...
- #4-40 x 0.375 (3/8") pozi flat head/countersunk screw - Bottom right front panel screw on my late PG506
...

Good luck for the pozidrive heads; with Philips, the question is: How many do you need?
A quick sample(1", not 3/8"):

I can get #4-40 screws from ebay pretty cheap anyway, no worries. I just need one, but if I buy from ebay, I'll grab a bag of them.





In current messings around on the bench, I pulled out a Leader LFM-3616 Wow and Flutter meter to get adjusted and cleaned up.

Now, the manual calls for a wow and flutter meter calibrator, but Google is not giving me any meaningful hits on what one of those actually is (or even looks like so I can try to find one...)

The adjustment procedure calls for it's use with settings as follows:

Function: Drift
Standard: JIS (I think this means 3kHz)
Waveform: Sine
Wow & Flutter: 0%

Function: Wow & Flutter
Standard: JIS
Waveform: Sine
Frequency: 10Hz
Wow & Flutter: 1%

Function: Wow & Flutter
Standard: JIS (I think this means 3kHz)
Waveform: Sine
Frequency: 4Hz
Wow & Flutter: 1%

etc etc...

Now, my question is, what's the easiest way to create these signals? I have a HP 3325A Function Gen (or two) and a compliment of various TM500 function generators.
Or is there a way to use Audacity to create the needed waveforms?

[wkb]

Am I the only one who finds the name Supernova a bit oddly chosen for a PAT tester?