Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 20977660 times)

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Offline factory

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137025 on: December 18, 2024, 06:00:34 pm »
You said that the cover was missing.  But why is there a hole next to the CRT in the first place?

It's needed to access the CRT socket, the space inside the Clement (or system I) cabinet was limited by the standard sizes, the designers were not allowed to ask for any changes to the Clement cabinets.
The CRT used in the 120A & 130A/B had already been shorted by 1", to fit in the new design of cabinet for the 120B (same CRT as 130C) but was still slightly too long, hence the access cover used on the 130C (and 140 series), the 120B had the rear metalwork formed to give extra space behind the CRT.

See here for more on the design of these scopes; https://www.hpmemoryproject.org/timeline/bob_devries/some_memories_03.htm

David
 
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Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137026 on: December 18, 2024, 06:18:42 pm »
Boy I hope no scope manufacturer dared selling scopes with an open design yet no cover. I hope some law would forbid this  ::)

The shape of the hole is not perfectly circular. One can guess it's designed to fit a twist 'n lock type cover.

Google found me this website of a CRO aficionados with a page on a 130C with lots of pics :

https://www.crowave.com/blog/2021/04/23/cijevni-osciloskop-hp-130c/

We can see the cover in place, then removed.



« Last Edit: December 18, 2024, 07:33:42 pm by Vince »
 

Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137027 on: December 18, 2024, 06:28:42 pm »
Would make a nice display for a curve tracer, or to hook up to an Asteroids emulator or something. :)

Yeah once my lab is upgraded and is equipped with its dedicated / local computer, I will look into all the cool stuff one can do with XY.
Will be able to use the sound chip to generate XY signals to feed the scope with all sorts of cool fun stuff, plenty to be seen on youtube...
I am hoping there is some software around that lets you do custom cool shit like display text strings with customizable fonts and sizes, and overlay basic geometrical  shapes and then produces the sounds file for it.

I also have my very own project in mind that could use XY, but I won't talk about it until it's done....it's a project within a project actually.

 

Offline McBryce

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137028 on: December 18, 2024, 09:47:20 pm »
Boy I hope no scope manufacturer dared selling scopes with an open design yet no cover. I hope some law would forbid this  ::)

The shape of the hole is not perfectly circular. One can guess it's designed to fit a twist 'n lock type cover.

Google found me this website of a CRO aficionados with a page on a 130C with lots of pics :

https://www.crowave.com/blog/2021/04/23/cijevni-osciloskop-hp-130c/

We can see the cover in place, then removed.





That's screaming "3D print me!!!" at you. I assume the printer is heating up in the background as we speak?

McBryce.
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Offline factory

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137029 on: December 18, 2024, 09:55:06 pm »
Just had a look at the pictures of mine.....

David
 
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Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137030 on: December 18, 2024, 10:05:58 pm »
Boy I hope no scope manufacturer dared selling scopes with an open design yet no cover. I hope some law would forbid this  ::)

The shape of the hole is not perfectly circular. One can guess it's designed to fit a twist 'n lock type cover.

Google found me this website of a CRO aficionados with a page on a 130C with lots of pics :

https://www.crowave.com/blog/2021/04/23/cijevni-osciloskop-hp-130c/

We can see the cover in place, then removed.



That's screaming "3D print me!!!" at you. I assume the printer is heating up in the background as we speak?

McBryce.

Well..... no. I am not into 3D printing... maybe in 50 years domestic 3D printers will meet my expectations but so far no go.
If need be I might consider outsourcing stuff to professionals with printers that cost hundreds of thousands of Euros, which actually do a decent job and can print from different kinds of materials like metal or rubber.
But that would be subject to cost which would be prohibitive, and also subject to me being proficient at CAD drawing and I am most definitely not...
To invest the time it takes to be good at it, I would have to have the need for it, so I can recoup the investment... but the need just isn't there so... no 3D printing for me, for now.
I am more interested in metal and wood working tools. mini-lathe, milling machines, drill press, sheet metal working machines, everything you need to form metal and join pieces together by various methods.

So I would consider making a cover from sheet metal for example (once I am kitted and the workshop / garage is built that is... not anytime soon).
« Last Edit: December 18, 2024, 10:11:05 pm by Vince »
 

Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137031 on: December 18, 2024, 10:08:17 pm »


Just had a look at the pictures of mine.....

David

Oh, no opening...
Same for my 120B, no opening, but on Google found a pic of a 120B that does have one.
I guess regardless of model, older scopes had none and others had it ? To help with serviceability ?

Who knows.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2024, 10:11:36 pm by Vince »
 

Offline TERRA Operative

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137032 on: December 18, 2024, 10:28:21 pm »
The usual chinese PCB manufacturers do 3D printing for very reasonable prices. I don't even bother using my 3D printer anymore...
The resin printing services look almost injection moulded, it's really good.
Where does all this test equipment keep coming from?!?

https://www.youtube.com/NearFarMedia/
 

Online tggzzz

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137033 on: December 18, 2024, 10:32:29 pm »
Well..... no. I am not into 3D printing... maybe in 50 years domestic 3D printers will meet my expectations but so far no go.
If need be I might consider outsourcing stuff to professionals with printers that cost hundreds of thousands of Euros, which actually do a decent job and can print from different kinds of materials like metal or rubber.
But that would be subject to cost which would be prohibitive, and also subject to me being proficient at CAD drawing and I am most definitely not...

I entirely agree about doing your own printing, especially multiple materials.

But creating your own part can be fun, and this type of part probably isn't difficult.

I like OpenSCAD and its way of thinking. Basically you take standard parts (sphere, cone, cuboid, etc) then translate, scale, rotate them, and add subtract etc them from each other. There are libraries of components too, e.g. a metric screw thread, and several "competing" implementations (always a good sign!)

The free tool is a declarative language, editor, compiler, viewer.

It didn't take too long to create this probe handle. Vendors websites accept the .stl output file, and give you an instant price for fabbing it. FFI
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/vintage-tek-restoration-pictures-by-martin/msg1024275/#msg1024275
« Last Edit: December 18, 2024, 10:34:56 pm by tggzzz »
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Offline Wolfgang

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137034 on: December 19, 2024, 12:32:16 am »
Well..... no. I am not into 3D printing... maybe in 50 years domestic 3D printers will meet my expectations but so far no go.
If need be I might consider outsourcing stuff to professionals with printers that cost hundreds of thousands of Euros, which actually do a decent job and can print from different kinds of materials like metal or rubber.
But that would be subject to cost which would be prohibitive, and also subject to me being proficient at CAD drawing and I am most definitely not...

I entirely agree about doing your own printing, especially multiple materials.

But creating your own part can be fun, and this type of part probably isn't difficult.

I like OpenSCAD and its way of thinking. Basically you take standard parts (sphere, cone, cuboid, etc) then translate, scale, rotate them, and add subtract etc them from each other. There are libraries of components too, e.g. a metric screw thread, and several "competing" implementations (always a good sign!)

The free tool is a declarative language, editor, compiler, viewer.

It didn't take too long to create this probe handle. Vendors websites accept the .stl output file, and give you an instant price for fabbing it. FFI
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/vintage-tek-restoration-pictures-by-martin/msg1024275/#msg1024275


Agreed, OpenScad is fun to work with and is very efficient. Even complex forms dont need a lot of code. For 3D printing with STL output its my tool of choice.
BUT: What it dearly needs is a STEP format export. After the 3D prototypes work, I need the same pieces milled in metal. No way with OpenScad, and the FreeCad importer is really buggy and full of unexplicable surprises. Even worse, a STEP export is not even on the feature list of the next release, Marius Kintel told me. And releases appear every few years only. So - good tool, but bad perspectives. But: FreeCad 1.0 is now out, maybe thats the future if STEP output is a must.
 

Online tggzzz

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137035 on: December 19, 2024, 12:59:36 am »
Agreed, OpenScad is fun to work with and is very efficient. Even complex forms dont need a lot of code. For 3D printing with STL output its my tool of choice.
BUT: What it dearly needs is a STEP format export. After the 3D prototypes work, I need the same pieces milled in metal. No way with OpenScad, and the FreeCad importer is really buggy and full of unexplicable surprises. Even worse, a STEP export is not even on the feature list of the next release, Marius Kintel told me. And releases appear every few years only. So - good tool, but bad perspectives. But: FreeCad 1.0 is now out, maybe thats the future if STEP output is a must.

In my ignorance, I'm not surprised that converting/importing doesn't work as well as might be hoped. With many cross-technology tools the first 80% is easy, and the last 5% damn near impossible.

I'll also make the observation that OpenSCAD is only suitable for some types of 3D design. There would be a distinct "impedance mismatch" if you were, say, creating human figure or anything where you wanted to "pull it a bit here and push it a bit there" to make it a more pleasing shape.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline factory

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137036 on: December 19, 2024, 10:03:11 am »
Sounds like everyone is ready to rally round & design*/print a cover for Vince, guess I don't need to bother with what I mentioned on the previous page.

*assuming there isn't already one in the 3DP parts thread.

David
 

Offline McBryce

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137037 on: December 19, 2024, 12:53:52 pm »
Boy I hope no scope manufacturer dared selling scopes with an open design yet no cover. I hope some law would forbid this  ::)

The shape of the hole is not perfectly circular. One can guess it's designed to fit a twist 'n lock type cover.

Google found me this website of a CRO aficionados with a page on a 130C with lots of pics :

https://www.crowave.com/blog/2021/04/23/cijevni-osciloskop-hp-130c/

We can see the cover in place, then removed.



That's screaming "3D print me!!!" at you. I assume the printer is heating up in the background as we speak?

McBryce.

Well..... no. I am not into 3D printing... maybe in 50 years domestic 3D printers will meet my expectations but so far no go.
If need be I might consider outsourcing stuff to professionals with printers that cost hundreds of thousands of Euros, which actually do a decent job and can print from different kinds of materials like metal or rubber.
But that would be subject to cost which would be prohibitive, and also subject to me being proficient at CAD drawing and I am most definitely not...
To invest the time it takes to be good at it, I would have to have the need for it, so I can recoup the investment... but the need just isn't there so... no 3D printing for me, for now.
I am more interested in metal and wood working tools. mini-lathe, milling machines, drill press, sheet metal working machines, everything you need to form metal and join pieces together by various methods.

So I would consider making a cover from sheet metal for example (once I am kitted and the workshop / garage is built that is... not anytime soon).

Domestic printers have made some massive leaps forward in the last few years and as far as resolution, quality and speed are concerned, they are pretty much on par with commercial devices these days. Some of them can do "rubber" (usually flexible TPU) too. As long as you don't want to print very big things, you can get a really good printer for under €500.
As for printing metal, that will probably never come for home printing. Even companies can barely afford these. And it's not just the price of the printer, electrically melting metal is an extremely expensive process.

McBryce.
30 Years making cars more difficult to repair.
 

Online tggzzz

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137038 on: December 19, 2024, 02:48:07 pm »
Domestic printers have made some massive leaps forward in the last few years and as far as resolution, quality and speed are concerned, they are pretty much on par with commercial devices these days. Some of them can do "rubber" (usually flexible TPU) too. As long as you don't want to print very big things, you can get a really good printer for under €500.
As for printing metal, that will probably never come for home printing. Even companies can barely afford these. And it's not just the price of the printer, electrically melting metal is an extremely expensive process.

You don't have to melt melt metal electrically, 6500(!) year old technology is sufficient.

What is new is the way you make the wax shape, using a 3D printer. Apparently it has become fashionable for professional jewellers to use it.

For different purposes, my 3D objects have been made from brass (via lost wax), nylon (hard, slightly flexible), and SLA resin/polymer (high resolution, smooth, inflexible).
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline Vince

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137039 on: December 19, 2024, 05:11:36 pm »
Thanks people for keeping me up to date on 3D printing.


Sounds like everyone is ready to rally round & design*/print a cover for Vince, guess I don't need to bother with what I mentioned on the previous page.

*assuming there isn't already one in the 3DP parts thread.

David

Oh, please don't let me down, I count on you ! Nothing can beat an original part for... originality !   :-[
Even if a 3DP model existed, and even assuming its quality was validated and proved to be a perfect fit, it would still cost more money than I paid for the scope, and it still would look out of place compared to the original part.

3D printing to me is really a last resort. Maybe one day I will have a use case that justifies spending the time and effort to learn CAD, but this day has not come yet.
It's not like I had free time to burn... I have a million long overdue things / projects on my plate in the lab that don't require 3D printing... so these are first...
I wish I were retired so I would have time, but I am only 47 and a house to finish building and an old car to restore and only so many week-ends in a year.. I have to pick my fights carefully...




« Last Edit: December 19, 2024, 05:13:53 pm by Vince »
 
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Offline AVGresponding

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137040 on: December 19, 2024, 05:25:47 pm »
Domestic printers have made some massive leaps forward in the last few years and as far as resolution, quality and speed are concerned, they are pretty much on par with commercial devices these days. Some of them can do "rubber" (usually flexible TPU) too. As long as you don't want to print very big things, you can get a really good printer for under €500.
As for printing metal, that will probably never come for home printing. Even companies can barely afford these. And it's not just the price of the printer, electrically melting metal is an extremely expensive process.

You don't have to melt melt metal electrically, 6500(!) year old technology is sufficient.

What is new is the way you make the wax shape, using a 3D printer. Apparently it has become fashionable for professional jewellers to use it.

For different purposes, my 3D objects have been made from brass (via lost wax), nylon (hard, slightly flexible), and SLA resin/polymer (high resolution, smooth, inflexible).

Induction furnaces have made melting more different metals practical in a home workshop too
nuqDaq yuch Dapol?
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Offline m k

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137041 on: December 19, 2024, 06:13:25 pm »
KWS AMA 310
https://www.ebay.com/itm/395969054756

I was wondering what kind of spectrum analyzer it could be.
Maybe it was a bargain, I was pretty sure it's a dongle protected.
Advance-Aneng-Appa-AVO-Beckman-Danbridge-Data Tech-Fluke-General Radio-H. W. Sullivan-Heathkit-HP-Kaise-Kyoritsu-Leeds & Northrup-Mastech-OR-X-REO-Simpson-Sinclair-Tektronix-Tokyo Rikosha-Topward-Triplett-Tritron-YFE
(plus lesser brands from the work shop of the world)
 

Offline McBryce

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137042 on: December 19, 2024, 07:15:21 pm »
Domestic printers have made some massive leaps forward in the last few years and as far as resolution, quality and speed are concerned, they are pretty much on par with commercial devices these days. Some of them can do "rubber" (usually flexible TPU) too. As long as you don't want to print very big things, you can get a really good printer for under €500.
As for printing metal, that will probably never come for home printing. Even companies can barely afford these. And it's not just the price of the printer, electrically melting metal is an extremely expensive process.

You don't have to melt melt metal electrically, 6500(!) year old technology is sufficient.

What is new is the way you make the wax shape, using a 3D printer. Apparently it has become fashionable for professional jewellers to use it.

For different purposes, my 3D objects have been made from brass (via lost wax), nylon (hard, slightly flexible), and SLA resin/polymer (high resolution, smooth, inflexible).

That's not really 3D printing metal. I mean the real metal printing that's used to produce things of beauty such as the Titanium brake calipers on the Bugatti Chiron.

McBryce.

30 Years making cars more difficult to repair.
 
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Offline Robert763

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137043 on: December 22, 2024, 08:40:49 pm »
KWS AMA 310
https://www.ebay.com/itm/395969054756

I was wondering what kind of spectrum analyzer it could be.
Maybe it was a bargain, I was pretty sure it's a dongle protected.

It's a TV type unit. It has a 75R input and only 50kHz resolution. Frequency coaverage seems a but segmented too.
 

Offline m k

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137044 on: December 23, 2024, 08:17:21 am »
TV stuff is always a bit of a show stopper, despite what other features are.
For a moment I thought that maybe I can reprogram it, luckily they went pretty fast.

One other thing, I'm pretty sure I saw different prices when they were available.
Maybe there were different sets, though can't find any now.
First it was so that VAT disappeared and afterwards shipping went up 3x.
Advance-Aneng-Appa-AVO-Beckman-Danbridge-Data Tech-Fluke-General Radio-H. W. Sullivan-Heathkit-HP-Kaise-Kyoritsu-Leeds & Northrup-Mastech-OR-X-REO-Simpson-Sinclair-Tektronix-Tokyo Rikosha-Topward-Triplett-Tritron-YFE
(plus lesser brands from the work shop of the world)
 

Offline wkb

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137045 on: December 23, 2024, 08:21:45 am »
KWS AMA 310
https://www.ebay.com/itm/395969054756

I was wondering what kind of spectrum analyzer it could be.
Maybe it was a bargain, I was pretty sure it's a dongle protected.

It says what it is on the last picture which shows the user manual..
 

Offline Martin.M

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137046 on: December 24, 2024, 09:24:11 am »
merry christmas to all .

I am sitting on my HP8593A with a display problem.

Story. The hp arrived dead. The PSU was fail, and the storage battery empty.
I have done, the PSU , and the battery, all is now working.
But the screen have problem: seems to be no sync in both directions. I have a double or triple line vertical, and horizontal only a part of the pic.
I got a instruction how to adjust display blind, from hßp group. I can adjust it, but it dont save the problem, there is anything in the monitorbox to repair.
 Is there anywhere a application for this par?

Martin
 

Offline m k

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137047 on: December 24, 2024, 11:24:05 am »
It seems to be a "normal" 12V video CRT monitor with video input and separated positive sync signals.
One offer is TR-60S1A from Panasonic, service manual is available.

Google search, as usual, is full of crap.
It seems to be 19.2k thingy, maybe old analog multisync monitor can act as a test subject.

Can you see normal sync pulses?
Panasonic is IC controlled, AN5790 for horizontal and signal directly into the chip.

H.Width and V.Height have adjustments, but those vertical lines are something else.
Advance-Aneng-Appa-AVO-Beckman-Danbridge-Data Tech-Fluke-General Radio-H. W. Sullivan-Heathkit-HP-Kaise-Kyoritsu-Leeds & Northrup-Mastech-OR-X-REO-Simpson-Sinclair-Tektronix-Tokyo Rikosha-Topward-Triplett-Tritron-YFE
(plus lesser brands from the work shop of the world)
 
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Offline Peter_O

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137048 on: December 24, 2024, 05:40:35 pm »
I always wanted to play with a HP3314A function generator.

It was in the 1983 catalogue the first time.
http://hparchive.com/Catalogs/HP-Catalog-1983.pdf Page 334.
It comes with counted bursts (as in the picture), gate, lin/log sweeps, AM, FM, VCO, DC offset, phase lock, variable symmetry, and an arbitrary waveform mode.



Just in time for a christmas gift to myself the preowner was nice enough to let the auction end at 11:30 PM last wednesday.
There was one bid on the starting price and later in the night I was the only bidder. So I was lucky to get it for 1€ above starting price.   :D

It was not clear from the auction description and pictures, but it is in very nice condition und fully functioning - as far as I've tested it.
All pictures here are take as the device came, no cleaning so far.

« Last Edit: December 25, 2024, 09:59:53 am by Peter_O »
 
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Offline VK5RC

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137049 on: December 25, 2024, 07:45:32 am »
@Peter_O You are aware of the wonderful Easter egg inside that wonderful beast? There is a pretty good story behind it as well - as the story goes - the HP engineer died and only released it in his Will! (If not true - sounds good anyway 😁)
Mine initially would only work on 110V - someone had been mucking with the socket/voltage selector😒, fixed it eventually 👍
Whoah! Watch where that landed we might need it later.
 
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