Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 20790585 times)

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137175 on: January 20, 2025, 09:44:54 am »
LEVEL UP!

Where does all this test equipment keep coming from?!?

https://www.youtube.com/NearFarMedia/
 
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137176 on: January 20, 2025, 10:19:55 am »
LEVEL UP!



Now you just need a second one, to check that the first one is reading correctly
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137177 on: January 20, 2025, 10:40:56 am »
I need to aim for triple modular redundancy. :D
Where does all this test equipment keep coming from?!?

https://www.youtube.com/NearFarMedia/
 

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137178 on: January 20, 2025, 11:11:11 am »


Before posting those photos, it would have been considerate to give a "trigger warning" :)

Is it better now? I've removed the manky connector found at a ham rally.
Or were you referring to the other trigger?  :-DD



Just the name "Bulgin" is sufficient to trigger me :( They were the Clive Sinclair of connectors.

But for some reason, the Brits of the day were inordinately fond of them!
The almost universal reaction amongst Australians was Yukk!!!

I presume they were used because they were cheap and readily available in catalogues.

IEC 60320 was published in 1970, and apparently the Apple II was an early user of the C13 kettle plug. That timing chimes with my memory.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Offline wkb

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137179 on: January 20, 2025, 11:53:42 am »
LEVEL UP!



You increased your house insurance already?
 

Offline Wolfgang

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137180 on: January 20, 2025, 12:47:12 pm »
LEVEL UP!



Now you just need a second one, to check that the first one is reading correctly

... you need at least three for a valid majority vote :)
 

Offline m k

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137181 on: January 20, 2025, 02:15:44 pm »
And regular insurance wont do special stuff.
Advance-Aneng-Appa-AVO-Beckman-Danbridge-Data Tech-Fluke-General Radio-H. W. Sullivan-Heathkit-HP-Kaise-Kyoritsu-Leeds & Northrup-Mastech-OR-X-REO-Simpson-Sinclair-Tektronix-Tokyo Rikosha-Topward-Triplett-Tritron-YFE
(plus lesser brands from the work shop of the world)
 

Offline Robert763

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137182 on: January 20, 2025, 09:01:13 pm »


I presume they were used because they were cheap and readily available in catalogues.

IEC 60320 was published in 1970, and apparently the Apple II was an early user of the C13 kettle plug. That timing chimes with my memory.
[/quote]

Pedant alert IEC 320 was issued in 1970 60320 came out in '94  ^-^
 

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137183 on: January 20, 2025, 09:10:56 pm »

Quote
I presume they were used because they were cheap and readily available in catalogues.

IEC 60320 was published in 1970, and apparently the Apple II was an early user of the C13 kettle plug. That timing chimes with my memory.

Pedant alert IEC 320 was issued in 1970 60320 came out in '94  ^-^

Couldn't be bothered to read the wackypedia page properly. Being triggered is injurious to mental health  ;)
« Last Edit: January 20, 2025, 09:12:56 pm by tggzzz »
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline atokhy

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137184 on: January 21, 2025, 04:50:39 pm »
Hello, I'm new here, and I'm building out my very first electronics bench.  I'm a bit late to the party here, since I've spent most of my life writing software.   I've barely done anything on the hardware side, so I'm going to be approaching this hobby at a different angle (or poor financial decision from the way you look at it).  When looking for equipment, data logging over USB is a bare minimum requirement, since I cannot justify spending $150 on a GPIB to USB cable or on any GPIB accessories, this stuff gets expensive very quick.

After searching for 6 1/2 digit multimeters on Ebay for at least a month, I initially focused on Keithley and Fluke (Phillips) listings.  Most of these units are dated, have no AC measurement functionality and have no USB or even RS232 functionality.  The ones that did have USB functionality were way beyond my budget.  However, there was one lesser known 6 1/2 digit multimeter from Japan that had both an AC measurement option (by default) and USB.  The ADCMT 7461A (https://www.adcmt.com/en/products/dmm/7451) satisfied every requirement for me.  At the moment I have no equipment brand loyalty yet, and almost no one has talked about this multimeter, so I bought it in order to write about it.

So I bit the bullet and got myself an ADCMT 7461A on auction for around $280 and even though some of plastic pieces came broken due to poor packaging, I'm still impressed.  I also bought one of those cheap AD584 references (and an LM399 reference on the way) to be able to measure drift on this used multimeter so that I can feel confident that the multimeter doesn't drift on its own.  To my surprise the AD584 reference from aliexpress was stable enough (I see about 0.1mV fluctuations over the course of the day, bouncing between 2.50120V and 2.50121V).  I picked the basement as the ideal place for my electronics workbench.  Worth the $8, for whatever that is worth.

As for the ADCMT 7461A, I give it a solid 9/10 for the price I paid for it.  So far I have the following electronics bench equipment:

- ADCMT 7461A 6 1/2 digit multimeter
- Siglent SDS814X HD
- Micsig DP750 100MHz High Voltage Differential Probe
- Riden RD6012P
- Longwei extra-high-noise 30V/10A adjustable power supply
- An old, 12V lead acid battery.
- TinySA Ultra

I am looking to acquire the following soon.  I'm open to any criticism for any of these I'm about to pull the trigger on, or if you can give any alternatives.

- Siglent SSA3021X-Plus Spectrum Analyzer (supposedly upgradable to the SVA series (?))
- Siglent SDG1022X Plus 25MHz 2-Ch Waveform Generator   
- Siglent SPD3303X-E DC Power Supply   
- Micsig CP2100B Current Probe
- ADCMT R6146 current/source
- Victor 4091C LCR meter
- Victor 3803M DC load (high voltage load)
- Victor 3824M DC load (dual load)

Anyway, back to browsing for equipment and losing my sanity over it.
 

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137185 on: January 21, 2025, 06:04:58 pm »
Kudos for the choice of obscure Japanese bench meter
nuqDaq yuch Dapol?
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Offline m k

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137186 on: January 21, 2025, 06:13:01 pm »
One major thing with old stuff is manual.
Everything is fine until it isn't and if there's no manual you're stuck.

When you buy cheap power supplies buy weight, maybe 50W per kilo.
You still wont get much, but at least heavier is possibly linear.

Others will cover Siglent.
Advance-Aneng-Appa-AVO-Beckman-Danbridge-Data Tech-Fluke-General Radio-H. W. Sullivan-Heathkit-HP-Kaise-Kyoritsu-Leeds & Northrup-Mastech-OR-X-REO-Simpson-Sinclair-Tektronix-Tokyo Rikosha-Topward-Triplett-Tritron-YFE
(plus lesser brands from the work shop of the world)
 

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137187 on: January 21, 2025, 06:18:42 pm »
Yeah, schematics will be unobtainium. Still, it's likely pretty reliable, and it could always be recapped as a precaution.

There's a user manual at least: https://www.n-denkei.com/taiwan/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2021/08/Catalog-7461A-7451A-20151029-en.pdf
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137188 on: January 21, 2025, 06:21:30 pm »
True. But stuff like Rigol and Siglent is a direct write-off if (when) it breaks once the warranty period has expired. Because "we don't repair on component level. And, no, there is not service manual. We offer module exchange.. Only 80% of new price".

Not thanks.. never again.. 🤮
 
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137189 on: January 21, 2025, 08:27:05 pm »
True. But stuff like Rigol and Siglent is a direct write-off if (when) it breaks once the warranty period has expired. Because "we don't repair on component level. And, no, there is not service manual. We offer module exchange.. Only 80% of new price".

Not thanks.. never again.. 🤮
Doesn't have to be.

Modules are not excessively costly until a greedy markup is placed on them.  >:(

Doing such amounts to double dipping on the customer IMO.....and when they have supported your business, returning the favor is the right thing to do.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist.
Some stuff seen @ Siglent HQ cannot be shared.
 

Offline atokhy

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137190 on: January 21, 2025, 09:28:40 pm »
Yeah, schematics will be unobtainium. Still, it's likely pretty reliable, and it could always be recapped as a precaution.

There's a user manual at least: https://www.n-denkei.com/taiwan/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2021/08/Catalog-7461A-7451A-20151029-en.pdf


I found a copy of the 200+ page manual for the ADCMT 7461A online with all the calibration instructions, however I still have not looked for any schematics, I imagine it would be somewhere on the Japanese language internet.  It's relatively new among the 6 1/2 digit ebay multimeters, so I imagine it has some life in it left.  I'm probably going to pick up 1-2 more lower resolution ones, since I need to log multiple, simultaneous measurements.  Maybe I'll start making videos on these so there's more information online about them, maybe it would encourage more discussion on these capable devices.

True. But stuff like Rigol and Siglent is a direct write-off if (when) it breaks once the warranty period has expired. Because "we don't repair on component level. And, no, there is not service manual. We offer module exchange.. Only 80% of new price".

Not thanks.. never again.. 🤮

As for new Siglent/Rigol products, I'm sure I'll be going with the SDG1032X plus model (25MHz - 60Mhz) to work with the SDG814X-HD (for its easy-mode bode plotting feature), and for the fact that both of them can be controlled over Ethernet (webserver interface).  Maybe I'll hold off on their other stuff, since I can barely find any used Rigol/Siglent products on EBay (perhaps they do not last long enough to appear on the used market in the first place?).  I'll live with it since all the used function generators and oscilloscopes do not provide the features I require (USB or RS232 programmability).

When you buy cheap power supplies buy weight, maybe 50W per kilo.
You still wont get much, but at least heavier is possibly linear.

As for linear power supply selection, thank you for the advice on selecting for weight.  I imagine there's a giant transformer in these linear power supplies in order for them to work correctly.  I'm now looking at the GW Instek GPP-4323 (LAN) because of the digit/price performance, it looks like a better value than siglent/rigol). https://www.tequipment.net/Instek/GPP-4323-(LAN)/DC-Power-Supplies/Lab-Power-Supplies/?v=7421

As for a DC load for higher current applications, I will probably ditch programmability and precision, and create a big, low Ohm resistor network filled with sand or high alumina concrete + nichrome wire resistor network.  It can also double as a space heater in the basement.
 

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137191 on: January 21, 2025, 11:24:40 pm »
When looking for equipment, data logging over USB is a bare minimum requirement, since I cannot justify spending $150 on a GPIB to USB cable or on any GPIB accessories, this stuff gets expensive very quick.

I'd not totally write off GPIB yet... you can find some deals on the adapters if you're patient and watch for them (I got a NOS Tek ethernet one for cheap on ebay a while back) and there are also some open source designs (with threads here about several) if you want to put one together yourself.

Particularly if you're looking at older used equipment, it opens up your choices a lot if you're not demanding usb built-in.
 

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137192 on: January 22, 2025, 12:04:36 am »
True. But stuff like Rigol and Siglent is a direct write-off if (when) it breaks once the warranty period has expired. Because "we don't repair on component level. And, no, there is not service manual. We offer module exchange.. Only 80% of new price".

Not thanks.. never again.. 🤮
Doesn't have to be.

Modules are not excessively costly until a greedy markup is placed on them.  >:(

Doing such amounts to double dipping on the customer IMO.....and when they have supported your business, returning the favor is the right thing to do.

A €900 ex VAT replacement module for a DSA815TG which new was around €1400 incl VAT or so.

No, never again.
 

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137193 on: January 22, 2025, 12:09:37 am »
True. But stuff like Rigol and Siglent is a direct write-off if (when) it breaks once the warranty period has expired. Because "we don't repair on component level. And, no, there is not service manual. We offer module exchange.. Only 80% of new price".

Not thanks.. never again.. 🤮
Doesn't have to be.

Modules are not excessively costly until a greedy markup is placed on them.  >:(

Doing such amounts to double dipping on the customer IMO.....and when they have supported your business, returning the favor is the right thing to do.

A €900 ex VAT replacement module for a DSA815TG which new was around €1400 incl VAT or so.

No, never again.
Supplier issue not a brand one.
As mentioned ex factory costs are reasonable for replacement modules.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist.
Some stuff seen @ Siglent HQ cannot be shared.
 

Offline Gertjan

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137194 on: January 22, 2025, 07:17:29 am »
  I'm probably going to pick up 1-2 more lower resolution ones, since I need to log multiple, simultaneous measurements. 
Did you notice that these ADCMT meters have an additional B-channel? (B-ch is 10V range fixed)
So you can log 2 voltages with one meter.

Also, the front and rear inputs can be switched remotely (unusual!).
So probably it is possible to log three measurements with only one meter  :).

Lots  of info and specs in this nice ADCMT 7461A/7451A brochure (from a Rohde & Schwarz site!)
 
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Offline wkb

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137195 on: January 22, 2025, 09:06:37 am »
True. But stuff like Rigol and Siglent is a direct write-off if (when) it breaks once the warranty period has expired. Because "we don't repair on component level. And, no, there is not service manual. We offer module exchange.. Only 80% of new price".

Not thanks.. never again.. 🤮
Doesn't have to be.

Modules are not excessively costly until a greedy markup is placed on them.  >:(

Doing such amounts to double dipping on the customer IMO.....and when they have supported your business, returning the favor is the right thing to do.

A €900 ex VAT replacement module for a DSA815TG which new was around €1400 incl VAT or so.

No, never again.
Supplier issue not a brand one.
As mentioned ex factory costs are reasonable for replacement modules.


Quality issues are. Upon inspection found abysmal soldering quality on the PCB
So.. no..
 

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137196 on: January 22, 2025, 09:26:27 am »
True. But stuff like Rigol and Siglent is a direct write-off if (when) it breaks once the warranty period has expired. Because "we don't repair on component level. And, no, there is not service manual. We offer module exchange.. Only 80% of new price".

Not thanks.. never again.. 🤮
Doesn't have to be.

Modules are not excessively costly until a greedy markup is placed on them.  >:(

Doing such amounts to double dipping on the customer IMO.....and when they have supported your business, returning the favor is the right thing to do.

A €900 ex VAT replacement module for a DSA815TG which new was around €1400 incl VAT or so.

No, never again.
Supplier issue not a brand one.
As mentioned ex factory costs are reasonable for replacement modules.


Quality issues are. Upon inspection found abysmal soldering quality on the PCB
So.. no..
:-//
Not seen such on Siglent PCB's replaced under warranty or in older stuff.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist.
Some stuff seen @ Siglent HQ cannot be shared.
 

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137197 on: January 22, 2025, 09:39:17 pm »
Ironic that one can get an ADCMT brochure from R&S gloris but I cannot download the manual for a R&S scope I own as a private individual  |O :-BROKE
 

Offline atokhy

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137198 on: January 22, 2025, 10:42:29 pm »
I did notice that it had multiple channels (rear ports) but I imagine these values can only be read over USB/GPIB.  I am looking for multichannel instruments so these ticked all the boxes.  I might also be buying these to satisfy my curiosity in this subject.

At the moment I have no GPIB cables or accessories, and the time investment and money required to prepare all that is a whole other can of worms (I am starting brand new).  Even low baud rate RS232 is sufficient for my needs.  Both USB and RS232 are cheap and fast enough for my use case.  I have some old commodity hardware that I need to make use of, some old servers from the 2000s for data processing and logging.

For my requirements, I'll need to simultaneously measure every battery in a DUT and record the performance of the circuit that ends up charging and discharging it (a BMS).  I wonder if such a thing as a multi-multi-meter exists :D (so, a lower precision multimeter that does multiple simultaneous measurements at a lower rate).  A BMS effectively does this, but it would be nice to get an extra digit of precision over the BMS's multi-multi-meter.  Maybe I could find a higher end BMS and turn it into a multi-multi-meter, since it really just a circuit that iterates across every battery cell, taking a voltage and resistance measurement.  I guess I could probably take one of my used medical grade BMSs and use it as some kind of specialized, single range, 3 1/2 digit multimeter.  But then again this all sounds very easy, and there is a chance that I sound like I don't know what I'm talking about.  I have no clue how any of this actually works.  I have no way to tell what the maximum drift for a BMS is.

Anyway, on with talking about my online equipment gambling addiction.  I am looking at the ADCMT 6541 4 quadrant source measuring unit.  It can source 4 simultaneous DUTs at 4 1/2 digit precision and measure with 5 1/2 digit precision with a voltage range of +/-10V and a current range of +/-500mA.  It's nothing like the Keithley 2401s which can go to +/-20V and +/-1A.  But with the Yen being what it is, maybe it's actually worth going with the ADCMT given that it's specifically designed around designing battery management systems.

https://www.adcmt.com/en/products/vig/6540#a_03
 

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #137199 on: January 23, 2025, 05:49:09 am »
Hello atokhy,

[...]
For my requirements, I'll need to simultaneously measure every battery in a DUT and record the performance of the circuit that ends up charging and discharging it (a BMS).  I wonder if such a thing as a multi-multi-meter exists :D (so, a lower precision multimeter that does multiple simultaneous measurements at a lower rate).
Check out the 34970A with suitable multiplexer modules.
Take care when buying : there's an option that cancels/removes the 6 1/2-digit (22-bit) internal DMM.
And of course, you want to keep such a nice feature.
By using an unique 34901A multiplexer module, you can already monitor a 20S battery.

Device is easy to find on the second hand market : ebay (fleebay^^), T&M brookers,...
« Last Edit: January 23, 2025, 06:11:44 am by timeandfrequency »
 
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