### Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 1629928 times)

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#### tggzzz

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##### Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #20725 on: December 06, 2018, 01:00:33 am »
Wet Grass was always a good test for Electric Fences before touching or peeing on one.

Taught my daughter that electricity can bite, by getting her to touch an electric fence (without grass).

But I was kind. I told her to do it lightly and with the back of her hand, so she wouldn't grip it
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less

#### Mr. Scram

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##### Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #20726 on: December 06, 2018, 01:04:45 am »
Rules of thumb...

"MPG" is a singularly useless metric. If I go from here to the nearest hackspace (i.e. city centre), my small car manages ~40mpg. I could easily increase that to ~60mpg - by going 50 miles up the motorway and back at 45mph. What matters is the fuel consumed, not the mpg!

In cities with stop-start traffic, weight of vehicle plus load is more important.
On the open road, no hills, no wind, aerodynamics are more important.
If you calculate the MPG over shorter distances the result is going to be less accurate. If you calculate it over all driven miles it's essentially accurate by definition. It's basically using different integration times on a piece of TE.

That being said, aerodynamics can be a huge pain. One fine example would be roof racks, which can in some cases increase petrol consumption by 50% In a lot of cases this means it's cheaper to buy whatever you're taking locally and dumping it after than taking it with you.

#### tautech

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##### Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #20727 on: December 06, 2018, 01:05:36 am »
Wet Grass was always a good test for Electric Fences before touching or peeing on one.

Taught my daughter that electricity can bite, by getting her to touch an electric fence (without grass).

But I was kind. I told her to do it lightly and with the back of her hand, so she wouldn't grip it
Ours learnt that for herself.....went running to momma yelling 'mean bee, mean bee' !
She was only ~3 but did a good job of keeping her younger brothers from the same experience.

Ratbag vistors kids, well not so much.
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#### med6753

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##### Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #20728 on: December 06, 2018, 01:06:45 am »
Bad news on the 2235. Diodes in. Didn't fix the problem. Pulled the anode lead off ran it up and the damn thing is rock solid but no PDA.

Feckity fecking multiplier is shot

Now to find one (the hard bit).

Also this is the first time I've discharged a CRT for a while. I forgot about the great big crack they make!

If you can't find one in the UK or EU but do find one over here but they won't ship across the pond let me know and we'll make arrangements to get it to you. You've helped me a few times and it's time to return the favor.
An old gray beard with an attitude.

#### tggzzz

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##### Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #20729 on: December 06, 2018, 01:16:10 am »
Rules of thumb...

"MPG" is a singularly useless metric. If I go from here to the nearest hackspace (i.e. city centre), my small car manages ~40mpg. I could easily increase that to ~60mpg - by going 50 miles up the motorway and back at 45mph. What matters is the fuel consumed, not the mpg!

In cities with stop-start traffic, weight of vehicle plus load is more important.
On the open road, no hills, no wind, aerodynamics are more important.
If you calculate the MPG over shorter distances the result is going to be less accurate. If you calculate it over all driven miles it's essentially accurate by definition. It's basically using different integration times on a piece of TE.

The MPG is just as accurate over short and long distances. Of course over short distances the values will (appear to) be "noisier", since the conditions vary during driving. Obvious examples are that the MPG is very good while coasting towards a red light, and very poor while accelerating away from the red light.

Besides, I didn't make the point clearly enough. What matters is the gallons used, not the miles per gallon.

Quote
That being said, aerodynamics can be a huge pain. One fine example would be roof racks, which can in some cases increase petrol consumption by 50% In a lot of cases this means it's cheaper to buy whatever you're taking locally and dumping it after than taking it with you.

So can carrying around unnecessary mass, e.g. in the boot or too many passengers
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less

#### Mr. Scram

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##### Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #20730 on: December 06, 2018, 01:24:01 am »
The MPG is just as accurate over short and long distances. Of course over short distances the values will (appear to) be "noisier", since the conditions vary during driving. Obvious examples are that the MPG is very good while coasting towards a red light, and very poor while accelerating away from the red light.

Besides, I didn't make the point clearly enough. What matters is the gallons used, not the miles per gallon.

So can carrying around unnecessary mass, e.g. in the boot or too many passengers
I'm not entirely sure why miles per gallon wouldn't matter. After all, most people have a car to actually go places and distances are what they are. You could have a perfectly economic car which uses no gallons at all, but travelling would be restricted to sitting in your driveway. Even the least adventurous amongst us would agree that's perhaps a bit too limited, so it seems sensible to factor distance into the equation.

#### mnementh

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##### Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #20731 on: December 06, 2018, 02:40:38 am »
I live where they make petrol. The cheap stuff costs ~US$2/gal; premium (which I run in Franken-Cruiser, as it makes it idle smoother and gets 26MPG vs 20-22MPG) costs ~$3/gal. For the difference between a vehicle that seats 5 comfortably (Okay, 1 adult & 2 kids in back) vs the Saturn or the Rav4 that you can barely get 3 kids in the back of, I feel it's a bargain. Of course, when I go back out into the real world where petrol costs what it should, I'll probably find the difference a lot more painful.

Aerodynamics in common consumer vehicles is a joke, particularly anything even remotely SuckUV.

mnem
"To fully appreciate harmony, we must first investigate discord." ~ Artemis Gordon
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 02:43:12 am by mnementh »

#### mnementh

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##### Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #20732 on: December 06, 2018, 02:54:27 am »
Bad news on the 2235. Diodes in. Didn't fix the problem. Pulled the anode lead off ran it up and the damn thing is rock solid but no PDA.

Feckity fecking multiplier is shot

Now to find one (the hard bit).

Also this is the first time I've discharged a CRT for a while. I forgot about the great big crack they make!

If you can't find one in the UK or EU but do find one over here but they won't ship across the pond let me know and we'll make arrangements to get it to you. You've helped me a few times and it's time to return the favor.

The offer to split shipping on the 2230 still holds as well. If you can't get it running 100%, it'll have all the HV bits you need.

mnem
*Bedtime/storytime for the wee beasties*

#### tautech

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##### Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #20733 on: December 06, 2018, 02:55:03 am »
I live where they make petrol. The cheap stuff costs ~US$2/gal mnem "To fully appreciate harmony, we must first investigate discord." ~ Artemis Gordon US$2/US gallon or real gallons ?
Avid Rabid Hobbyist

#### bitseeker

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##### Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #20734 on: December 06, 2018, 02:59:14 am »
Texas gallons!
I TEA.

#### beanflying

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##### Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #20735 on: December 06, 2018, 03:10:33 am »
I thought everything was bigger in Texas

Do less Car km a year and buy a V8  I brought my first V8 4 years ago a 25 year old fuel guzzling Holden, handled like a soggy sponge in the corners but it sure did sound good with the peddle down. Did under 10,000km's a year while I had it.

Changed it for a 4 cylinder Triton Tray as this currently suits my needs. Last years total drive was under 8000km's. Costing as much to keep on the road as it does in fuel.
Coffee, Food, R/C and electronics nerd in no particular order

#### GregDunn

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##### Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #20736 on: December 06, 2018, 03:47:57 am »
Texas gallons!

Remember, these are the guys who tell you that hat on their head holds ten gallons.

#### xrunner

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##### Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #20737 on: December 06, 2018, 03:51:09 am »
HP - Agilent - Keysight meter I've not seen before -

HP - Agilent - Keysight
I am a Test Equipment Addict (TEA) - by virtue of this forum signature, I have now faced my addiction

#### Mr. Scram

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##### Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #20738 on: December 06, 2018, 03:59:02 am »
HP - Agilent - Keysight meter I've not seen before -

HP - Agilent - Keysight
Like another seller who has a "Agilent MSO" for sale with a huge Tektronix logo in the picture.  It's an equipment dealer too.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Agilent-MSO2012-Mixed-Signal-Oscilloscope/152430368899?epid=28010669356&hash=item237d8ed883

#### neo

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##### Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #20739 on: December 06, 2018, 05:50:35 am »
It wasn’t made by Fiat was it?

Been through this already this year as well. Cars are a pain.

Chevy and the radiator is actually rather impressive all things considered. Lasted 26 years and 300k miles (and an engine change) before dieing.... sadly it took the new engine with only 25k miles on it with it.

Congrats on the new job, neo. Sorry to hear about the car's heart attack. It's always something, yet TEA has a way of persevering.

I hate it, i despise it, they pay me, i go. Never work for walmart if you value your soul, i have no choice now.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 05:52:24 am by neo »
A hopeless addict (and slave) to TEA and a firm believer that high frequency is little more than modern hoodoo.

#### med6753

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##### Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #20740 on: December 06, 2018, 06:47:39 am »
Speaking of work. It sure is one hell of a fire drill tonight. Engineering released a new level of microcode. Apparently they didn't test it very well. To say that it's FUBAR would be an understatement. All my systems failing with all kinds of weird shit. And on 3rd shift we have no on site support. We are supposed to contact IBM Singapore for support. HA! Been down that route. They are about as useful as tits on a bull. Every time in the past that we contacted them they look at the issue and say "we don't know, contact your engineering in the morning".

It is going to be total chaos here on 1st shift and isn't it a shame that I'm going to miss it. Systems are falling behind schedule which means that stupidvisors are gonna go ape shit   and Engineers in the test area picking their noses trying to figure out what happen.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 08:40:44 am by med6753 »
An old gray beard with an attitude.

#### bd139

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##### Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #20741 on: December 06, 2018, 08:01:06 am »
@med6753 / @mnementh - thank you for your kind offers. I am going to shelve this until after Christmas now however as I’ve had enough of it for the time being . Will post back on it then.

One of our major mobile providers (O2) and all their virtual operators on top of it is completely shafted today. Absolute chaos. Even all the transport arrival signs are out across London. So I popped up on 2m and there’s someone calling CQ for some printer tech support. Humans!

#### tggzzz

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##### Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #20742 on: December 06, 2018, 08:23:00 am »
The MPG is just as accurate over short and long distances. Of course over short distances the values will (appear to) be "noisier", since the conditions vary during driving. Obvious examples are that the MPG is very good while coasting towards a red light, and very poor while accelerating away from the red light.

Besides, I didn't make the point clearly enough. What matters is the gallons used, not the miles per gallon.

So can carrying around unnecessary mass, e.g. in the boot or too many passengers
I'm not entirely sure why miles per gallon wouldn't matter. After all, most people have a car to actually go places and distances are what they are.

Because MPG is not a useful measure of how much fuel will be used on a journey - and that's all that counts.

Simple example: travel at a different time in a city, and you will have radically different MPG values. Or with a headwind/tailwind. Or in a laden/unladen vehicle (unless you are travelling at constant speed and altitude).

Quote
You could have a perfectly economic car which uses no gallons at all, but travelling would be restricted to sitting in your driveway. Even the least adventurous amongst us would agree that's perhaps a bit too limited, so it seems sensible to factor distance into the equation.

I like vehicles that can and do go 600km at average speeds of 70-110km/h - on a cupful of LPG. (On the right day and with the right "driver" )
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less

#### med6753

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##### Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #20743 on: December 06, 2018, 08:38:26 am »
Speaking of work. It sure is one hell of a fire drill tonight. Engineering released a new level of microcode. Apparently they didn't test it very well. To say that it's FUBAR would be an understatement. All my systems failing with all kinds of weird shit. And on 3rd shift we have no on site support. We are supposed to contact IBM Singapore for support. HA! Been down that route. They are about as useful as tits on a bull. Every time in the past that we contacted them they look at the issue and say "we don't know, contact your engineering in the morning".

It is going to be total chaos here on 1st shift and isn't a shame that I'm going to miss it. Systems are falling behind schedule which means that stupidvisors are gonna go ape shit   and Engineers in the test area picking their noses trying to figure out what happen.

I started out tonight working 8 systems. The last man stating just crapped out a few minutes ago with the same fail as 3 others. Other techs having same issues. I would say at this moment at least 20 systems are down.

It's almost a shame that it's just about time for me to log out and hit the bricks. I wish I could be a fly on the wall and watch the hilarity that will ensue later this morning.
An old gray beard with an attitude.

#### Mr. Scram

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##### Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #20744 on: December 06, 2018, 08:38:40 am »
Because MPG is not a useful measure of how much fuel will be used on a journey - and that's all that counts.

Simple example: travel at a different time in a city, and you will have radically different MPG values. Or with a headwind/tailwind. Or in a laden/unladen vehicle (unless you are travelling at constant speed and altitude).

I like vehicles that can and do go 600km at average speeds of 70-110km/h - on a cupful of LPG. (On the right day and with the right "driver" )
The difference seems to be that you're seeing the MPG as a prediction, while I'm viewing it as a result. You're seem to be calling the result the fuel used, but I feel we're essentially saying the same thing.

#### tggzzz

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##### Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #20745 on: December 06, 2018, 09:00:58 am »
Because MPG is not a useful measure of how much fuel will be used on a journey - and that's all that counts.

Simple example: travel at a different time in a city, and you will have radically different MPG values. Or with a headwind/tailwind. Or in a laden/unladen vehicle (unless you are travelling at constant speed and altitude).

I like vehicles that can and do go 600km at average speeds of 70-110km/h - on a cupful of LPG. (On the right day and with the right "driver" )
The difference seems to be that you're seeing the MPG as a prediction, while I'm viewing it as a result. You're seem to be calling the result the fuel used, but I feel we're essentially saying the same thing.

That's a strange weltanschauung, but probably correct

To me the fuel used (or money or CO2) is the result. I don't know why manufacturers don't have an accurate dashboard measurement of the fuel used. The information is available, since it is required for the MPG and range displays.

To me MPG is only used to:
• compare one car with another
• guesstimate  how much further I can travel with the remaining fuel; how often do you see a "remaining range" indicator increase?
• compare effects of fuel used/range at different speeds
• but not to predict, since the value can vary between 20mpg and 60mpg even on the same journey

Since all that is a technical measurement, we can claim somewhat tenuously that it is on topic
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less

#### Cerebus

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##### Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #20746 on: December 06, 2018, 09:10:41 am »
That thing is so nauseating ugly, there ought to be a burka for it.

When I first saw one of these my immediate reaction was "Lordy that's ugly, but at least it doesn't look like everything else churned out by the motor industry in the last five years".

I disagree with the "burka" characterisation. That would make it a "one bag" car, I think it's more "coyote".
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?

#### bd139

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##### Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #20747 on: December 06, 2018, 09:17:42 am »
SWMBO wanted one. Only because it looked mildly like the Eliminator...

I started out tonight working 8 systems. The last man stating just crapped out a few minutes ago with the same fail as 3 others. Other techs having same issues. I would say at this moment at least 20 systems are down.

It's almost a shame that it's just about time for me to log out and hit the bricks. I wish I could be a fly on the wall and watch the hilarity that will ensue later this morning.

Been there many times. I don't envy you

#### med6753

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##### Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #20748 on: December 06, 2018, 10:15:46 am »
Wanna know why I'm a grouchy bastard? Here's why. I come home this morning and the kid from downstairs parks his car at an angle partly blocking my garage such that I can't put my car in.    Even with the "No Parking" sign. This is the 2nd time this has happen. There's gonna be a "come to Jesus" meeting this kid. And if he tells his Mother and she don't like it tough shit. There's plenty of parking else where except you may have to walk a few feet further. Too fucking bad.
An old gray beard with an attitude.

#### Mr. Scram

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