Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 2036545 times)

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Offline Neomys Sapiens

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23325 on: January 22, 2019, 08:53:28 pm »
Not the first time I've had a fluke handle get broken in shipment. But super glue doesn't work on the type of plastic Fluke uses. Has to be epoxy.
How much 'flesh' do you have there? How about the 'hot embedded wire' technique?
 

Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23326 on: January 22, 2019, 09:24:04 pm »
If it works and the corrosion didn't do any real damage I'd say quit whining or else we'll have to buy you some cheese for your private wine and cheese party.  >:D :-DD

Fair point :-DD

Anyway some pictures.

Firstly checking a 1:1 current balun out. Seems good from about 50MHz before SWR starts jumping. Could be better so rethinking this balun.



Then measuring a capacitor...



Does inductors as well and is good for setting up matching networks and measuring filter parameters. Also has a built in frequency counter! It's an oversized swiss army knife.

Ate 10x AA batteries though  :o
« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 09:37:36 pm by bd139 »
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23327 on: January 22, 2019, 09:26:53 pm »
One small screen. Two decent eyes.

Little dilemma here. MFJ-259 arrived. Bit dirty and bashed up as expected as these are used in the field but there’s sign the batteries have leaked before. It was cleaned out properly but there’s traces of corrosion on the battery box and the board has been washed clearly.

Sooo... quit whining and just use it as it works fine. Or talk to seller?
I would say that knowing you, you got it for a good price anyway, so in that case I'd just accept it as it as it is and use it. You've stopped the corrosion from getting worse so all's good.
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Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23328 on: January 22, 2019, 09:31:04 pm »
Wasn't a bargain price. But I needed one to solve a few problems so it's worth it for utility.
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23329 on: January 22, 2019, 09:53:38 pm »
I find that the dead-sexy 2-in-1 station very confusing, does it come with a iron handle or not?, tip? and what about the desoldering tool? All I can see is the station and the hot air gun with 4 nozzles. The station has a button marked vacuum but where the feck is the suction pump??

I really enjoy using my T12 even if its not made by KSGER but by Quicko and has only 4 pins as opposed to the 5 on the KSGER, it has stepped up to the plate on every occasion, even when called upon to solder onto some large ground planes which really wick the heat away, it makes a first class joint every time. I only have the 9501 handle (blue) as the one that DefPom has, so which handle are you referring to when you say that does he know he already has the best handle?? I find that the 9501 handle is perfectly deigned to provide the right grip and balance to give good control over the tip. What I have had a few problems with however are some of their tips, the contact rings cab cause problems as they tend to come undone after a few insertions (makes note to order some more) which makes then unusable then and thrown away  :palm: Perhaps the genuine Hakko ones are better, but in can you get the genuine ones from that don't cost an and a leg?

   

Defpom shows two alloy handles at about 2:00; one with a blue foam grip they sent with the review station, and another alloy handle that he has connected to another station. It is the other one with the silicone grip that KSGER and Banggood refer to as the "new" handle; though it looks to me from the listings like both are the same alloy extrusion with foam or silicone grip.

[EDIT] You can see clearly what I'm talking about re: the really long offset of the tip compared to grip as well. Ehhhhhh... [/EDIT]

He was excited about the foam grip; but speaking as someone who has done production soldering, I'll say with conviction that foam grips blow vs silicone. Especially when they get a few months old and full of oils from your fingertips; they can get downright nasty and even smell.



Looks to me like that's not a button, but rather a threaded hole for a bulkhead vacuum connector. I'd say so you can install a vacuum pump inside if you want to use a desoldering handle.

mnem
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That would bug the feck out of me as they do not list anything remotely suitable to act as a vacuum pump to allow it to be used as desoldering station. As you know, desoldering stations usually have a switch on the handle to switch the pump on and off when required, once the solder has been liquified, otherwise the air being sucked into the nozzle tends to cool the tip down and is counterproductive to job in hand, Equally there is no air vent in the enclosure for the expelled air to escape from.  :--
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23330 on: January 22, 2019, 10:05:55 pm »
Not the first time I've had a fluke handle get broken in shipment. But super glue doesn't work on the type of plastic Fluke uses. Has to be epoxy.
How much 'flesh' do you have there? How about the 'hot embedded wire' technique?
As I mentioned earlier, we are all used to superglue bonding in seconds and I had 2 HP3466A meters that arrived with broken handles and also a Rapid analog oscilloscope and even after holding the broken pieces together for many minutes the superglue did not bond on any of them. However, gluing them again with superglue, and hastily clamping the pieces together and leaving for 24 hours resulted in a very strong bond that even 1 year later was still holding good and I was able to carry the scope and meters around using the handles and using them as tilting bails without a single moments doubt about it holding up OK.

I seriously would give a try, what's the worst that could happen, it not sticking. If that happens peel the glue off and try epoxy or other means, but you might just be surprised by the resultant bond like I was. 
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23331 on: January 22, 2019, 10:13:24 pm »
Then measuring a capacitor...



Does inductors as well and is good for setting up matching networks and measuring filter parameters. Also has a built in frequency counter! It's an oversized swiss army knife.

Ate 10x AA batteries though  :o
Hmm, I wonder just how good the accuracy when used like that? It would certainly benefit from a proper plug and some croc clips on the end of some suitable cable though. As to eating 10 AA batteries, it must be possible to mount a somewhere one of those 2.1mm power jacks and run it from a wall wart when in doors?
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Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23332 on: January 22, 2019, 10:40:54 pm »
It’s pretty good. That’s the least amount of test fixture possible which is best way to measure caps on these. I tried a 100pF 1% silver mica and it came up at 102pF  :-+.

If you look at the top there’s a DC jack. I just didn’t have the time to knock up a cable (it came with one half of one). I will do that at weekend.

It’ll be used outside to test antennas while trimming etc so will probably make up a power pole cable and run off my spare SLA.
 

Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23333 on: January 22, 2019, 11:24:06 pm »
Some 8810A pron. First pix. Main board. And yep, no ACV and Ohms board which would be installed in the upper left as show by Nixiefreq in his pix yesterday. Today I verified all the supply voltages and they are OK but the filter caps looked original so I changed them.

2nd pix. Close up of the main board where the ACV and Ohms boards would be installed.

3rd pix. Close up of the DCV/ACV/Ohms selector switch. That tab apparently has to be pushed down and then slide out a metal plate to allow selection of ACV/Ohms. 

4th pix. A repair bodge! Sometime in the past the power supply had a repair. Those wires are going to the rectifiers.

Spent the afternoon checking it's overall calibration and things are not going well. As shown yesterday on the 20V range it's dead nuts. Not so on the mV range. Significantly out of spec. Attempts to bring it into spec cause the upper ranges to go out of spec. There's quite a bit of interaction between ranges and apparently something has gone fubar. Probably in some divider circuit. So it needs some troubleshooting. And I have the dead 8800A for parts if needed. Work on it more tomorrow.   
« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 11:48:47 pm by med6753 »
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Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23334 on: January 22, 2019, 11:28:23 pm »
Not the first time I've had a fluke handle get broken in shipment. But super glue doesn't work on the type of plastic Fluke uses. Has to be epoxy.
How much 'flesh' do you have there? How about the 'hot embedded wire' technique?
As I mentioned earlier, we are all used to superglue bonding in seconds and I had 2 HP3466A meters that arrived with broken handles and also a Rapid analog oscilloscope and even after holding the broken pieces together for many minutes the superglue did not bond on any of them. However, gluing them again with superglue, and hastily clamping the pieces together and leaving for 24 hours resulted in a very strong bond that even 1 year later was still holding good and I was able to carry the scope and meters around using the handles and using them as tilting bails without a single moments doubt about it holding up OK.

I seriously would give a try, what's the worst that could happen, it not sticking. If that happens peel the glue off and try epoxy or other means, but you might just be surprised by the resultant bond like I was.

Too late. I already epoxied the handle back together.  :-DD
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Offline Neomys Sapiens

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23335 on: January 23, 2019, 01:01:45 am »
Not the first time I've had a fluke handle get broken in shipment. But super glue doesn't work on the type of plastic Fluke uses. Has to be epoxy.
How much 'flesh' do you have there? How about the 'hot embedded wire' technique?
As I mentioned earlier, we are all used to superglue bonding in seconds and I had 2 HP3466A meters that arrived with broken handles and also a Rapid analog oscilloscope and even after holding the broken pieces together for many minutes the superglue did not bond on any of them. However, gluing them again with superglue, and hastily clamping the pieces together and leaving for 24 hours resulted in a very strong bond that even 1 year later was still holding good and I was able to carry the scope and meters around using the handles and using them as tilting bails without a single moments doubt about it holding up OK.

I seriously would give a try, what's the worst that could happen, it not sticking. If that happens peel the glue off and try epoxy or other means, but you might just be surprised by the resultant bond like I was.
Ok, didn't read that. But I have employed the technique you described. I just wanted to add a solution.
And I also have experienced even more outlandish things, where adhesives were involved:
about 30years ago, I worked for a local company, which was refitting machine tools to CNC using a proprietary, 68000 based CNC system. They were also providing machine tool servicing to the local industry. I was at a machine shop on a service call and I had to access the tachometer generator. It was build into the machine, not on the motor shaft, but connected to the spindle. I had to disconnect some wires for testing. When I tried to reattach them, the circular terminal carrier made of Bakelite  broke into more than 3 or 4 pieces.
I can't recall why I decided not to solder or crimp the external wires to the windings directly, but something made me shirk from that.  I had Epoxy, cyanacrylate Superglue and a little bottle of Technicoll craft and hobby glue with me.
The machine was needed, the tacho generator hard to remove and the availability of a replacement quite dubious. And it was soiled by a thin film of a oil/coolant/dirt mixture. I scraped it as clean as I could and tried cyanacrylate. It rolled itself together and refused contact with the surface. After some more cleaning, I tried epoxy. 2 hours later, no sign of binding. I had to capitulate or try the Technicoll. This is a crystal clear, rather low viscosity stuff. There must have been remains of the Epoxy and/or the superglue on the surface. After half an hour, it was firm to the touch. After one hour, I refitted the terminal assembly into the tach's housing and tightened the terminal nuts.  :phew:
When I got back there some weeks later with a new tach, the machine was still running.
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23336 on: January 23, 2019, 01:18:54 am »
That might have been because it was gel like to begin with, giving the glue more time to begin bonding rather than flowing away like the superglue did?

I forgot to say that the superglue I used in my repairs was the superglue gel. My son does a bit of modelling and on his forum someone  had successfully used that where normal glue had formed a gobble and ran away when the second part to be bonded was applied. That was what happening with the handles, the broken part was so shine it looked like a deep polish had been applied but gel given time did the trick.
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Online beanflying

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23337 on: January 23, 2019, 01:35:53 am »
Superglue's have there place but that is not every place ;)

Plastics need to be fused chemically to gain maximum mechanical strength or you are relying completely on the interface bond between the glue and that plastic. Standard CA doesn't key chemically to ALL plastics and is affected by moisture and heat. Gap fillers, activators and even baking soda can help get a better bond with CA.

There is also modified CA glues out there for Glass, Rubber and specifically for Thermo Plastics. For what I do I use three different ones generally for my R/C hobbies alone.


I haven't tried this flavour but it may be worth giving a go http://www.supergluecorp.com/?q=pacer-industrial/special-plastic-bonders/plastic-fuse
« Last Edit: January 23, 2019, 01:38:20 am by beanflying »
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Offline salvagedcircuitry

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23338 on: January 23, 2019, 02:05:04 am »
The 40mhz TTI TGA1244 4ch function gen arrived. So glad it came in one piece from the west coast. I purchased it knowing it was broken, but it turned out the seller plugged in unit into 115v instead of 230v, which was labeled on back. Luckily this TTI unit has a reconfigurable transformer and a manual with details on how to change it to 115v. Rewired it and the display turns on fine. It does look like the bios battery has died so I'll need to replace it. It is a battery tab unit, so I think I'm going to solder in a 2032 holder instead of a battery tab.
I think this is a pretty sold score. Pretty stoked.

If this is not a lesson to just RTFM, I don't know what is.  :-DD

http://resources.aimtti.com/manuals/TGA1240_Series_Instruction_Manual-Iss13.pdf












« Last Edit: January 23, 2019, 03:32:02 am by salvagedcircuitry »
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23339 on: January 23, 2019, 02:08:47 am »
Yes, I think that glue is the equivalent to the one I used which can be found here http://www.pattex-adhesives.com.au/en/products/100-percent-line/100percent-repair-gel.html and on the step by step instructions it does say that maximum strength is reached after 24hrs. It also states that the parts need to be clamped together, which is something that I did not know before as I just opened the packet and threw away the instructions, just a man does.  :-DD
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23340 on: January 23, 2019, 02:15:34 am »
The 40mhz TTI 4ch function gen arrived. So glad it came in one piece from the west coast. I purchased it knowing it was broken, but it turned out the seller plugged in unit into 115v instead of 230v, which was labeled on back. Luckily this TTI unit has a reconfigurable transformer and a manual with details on how to change it to 115v. Rewired it and the display turns on fine. It does look like the bios battery has died so I'll need to replace it. It is a battery tab unit, so I think I'm going to solder in a 2032 holder instead of a battery tab.
I think this is a pretty sold score. Pretty stoked.

If this is not a lesson to just RTFM, I don't know what is.  :-DD

Good score, I almost snagged one of those a few months back but the display was very poor, sort of weak to the point where it would be unreadable at times unless you viewed it from an odd angle and figured that it would be expensive to fix.  :palm: I really should have checked with TTi directly for the cost of a new LCD but by the time I decided to do that, it had been snapped up.
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Offline GregDunn

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23341 on: January 23, 2019, 02:32:28 am »

Spent the afternoon checking it's overall calibration and things are not going well. As shown yesterday on the 20V range it's dead nuts. Not so on the mV range. Significantly out of spec. Attempts to bring it into spec cause the upper ranges to go out of spec. There's quite a bit of interaction between ranges and apparently something has gone fubar. Probably in some divider circuit. So it needs some troubleshooting. And I have the dead 8800A for parts if needed. Work on it more tomorrow.

If some ranges are better than others, you're right - the DC buffer is a suspect.  I had an 8600A which did this, and the problem turned out to be the range program PROM.  Others have seen problems with the reed relays, but that tends to cause drift rather than just out of spec readings.  I think there's a method in the manual which describes how to inject a DC voltage directly into the ADC, so you can verify that it works independently of the divider circuits. 

Does it zero properly after warmup?  If so, then the input FETs are probably OK.  Leaky FETs would cause significant offset in the lower ranges, but not in the higher ones.
 

Online beanflying

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23342 on: January 23, 2019, 02:38:37 am »
Yes, I think that glue is the equivalent to the one I used which can be found here http://www.pattex-adhesives.com.au/en/products/100-percent-line/100percent-repair-gel.html and on the step by step instructions it does say that maximum strength is reached after 24hrs. It also states that the parts need to be clamped together, which is something that I did not know before as I just opened the packet and threw away the instructions, just a man does.  :-DD

Gel or high viscosity CA's other than their ability to gap fill and improve the interface bond generally won't key into the plastics and can just float on top without pressure being applied to the attempted joint. The Plastic-Fuse has a fairly high percentage of Acrylic in solution with the CA and the Repair-Gel has 10% of something I would rather not go near definitely glove up and use in a well ventilated area :o

Part of the issue is that PolyPropylene for example is very resistant to solvent chemical attack and also by definition solvent or chemical welding.

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Offline salvagedcircuitry

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23343 on: January 23, 2019, 03:01:09 am »
Good score, I almost snagged one of those a few months back but the display was very poor, sort of weak to the point where it would be unreadable at times unless you viewed it from an odd angle and figured that it would be expensive to fix.  :palm: I really should have checked with TTi directly for the cost of a new LCD but by the time I decided to do that, it had been snapped up.

The cool thing about this unit is that it uses a standard 4x20 character LCD display. Nothing fancy. So if it was damaged I could snag a new one for like $25.  :-+
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23344 on: January 23, 2019, 03:09:14 am »
Yes, I think that glue is the equivalent to the one I used which can be found here http://www.pattex-adhesives.com.au/en/products/100-percent-line/100percent-repair-gel.html and on the step by step instructions it does say that maximum strength is reached after 24hrs. It also states that the parts need to be clamped together, which is something that I did not know before as I just opened the packet and threw away the instructions, just a man does.  :-DD

Gel or high viscosity CA's other than their ability to gap fill and improve the interface bond generally won't key into the plastics and can just float on top without pressure being applied to the attempted joint. The Plastic-Fuse has a fairly high percentage of Acrylic in solution with the CA and the Repair-Gel has 10% of something I would rather not go near definitely glove up and use in a well ventilated area :o

Part of the issue is that PolyPropylene for example is very resistant to solvent chemical attack and also by definition solvent or chemical welding.


OH, well I didn't glove up but I do have a well ventilated room and it has made a brilliant repair on my handles, so I'm a happy bunny and we use a fair bit of this glue around the house so may be the real risk is similar to being knocked down by a red bus on a Sunday?
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Online beanflying

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23345 on: January 23, 2019, 03:23:49 am »
Part of my real job I used to do was handling chemical nasties and devices that moved them around or contained them. I tend to take MSDS fairly seriously in particular as I spend a reasonable bit of time playing with glues too.

No point jumping out in front of the Red Bus ;)
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23346 on: January 23, 2019, 05:13:22 am »
Jeebus. I just spent over $100 on Pokemon tonight.

2 Pre-release tournament entries, and digging through the rares to finish up a fire deck build.  :palm: Cardboard crack indeed.

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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23347 on: January 23, 2019, 05:26:35 am »
The 40mhz TTI TGA1244 4ch function gen arrived. So glad it came in one piece from the west coast. I purchased it knowing it was broken, but it turned out the seller plugged in unit into 115v instead of 230v, which was labeled on back. Luckily this TTI unit has a reconfigurable transformer and a manual with details on how to change it to 115v. Rewired it and the display turns on fine. It does look like the bios battery has died so I'll need to replace it. It is a battery tab unit, so I think I'm going to solder in a 2032 holder instead of a battery tab.
I think this is a pretty sold score. Pretty stoked.

Great score! It's certainly better when it turns out like that than the other way around (230V into 115V instrument :o).
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Online mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23348 on: January 23, 2019, 05:31:11 am »


https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/01/22/google_chrome_browser_ad_content_block_change/

Have you purged Google from your computer yet?

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #23349 on: January 23, 2019, 06:26:48 am »
   Defpom shows two alloy handles at about 2:00; one with a blue foam grip they sent with the review station, and another alloy handle that he has connected to another station. It is the other one with the silicone grip that KSGER and Banggood refer to as the "new" handle; though it looks to me from the listings like both are the same alloy extrusion with foam or silicone grip.

[EDIT] You can see clearly what I'm talking about re: the really long offset of the tip compared to grip as well. Ehhhhhh... [/EDIT]

He was excited about the foam grip; but speaking as someone who has done production soldering, I'll say with conviction that foam grips blow vs silicone. Especially when they get a few months old and full of oils from your fingertips; they can get downright nasty and even smell.

   Looks to me like that's not a button, but rather a threaded hole for a bulkhead vacuum connector. I'd say so you can install a vacuum pump inside if you want to use a desoldering handle.

mnem
*Back to the grind*
That would bug the feck out of me as they do not list anything remotely suitable to act as a vacuum pump to allow it to be used as desoldering station. As you know, desoldering stations usually have a switch on the handle to switch the pump on and off when required, once the solder has been liquified, otherwise the air being sucked into the nozzle tends to cool the tip down and is counterproductive to job in hand, Equally there is no air vent in the enclosure for the expelled air to escape from.  :--

                   

KSGER has a suitable vacuum pump here for $65, and I believe the desoldering guns they recommend use a mechanical valve/reservoir and the compressor cycles on a pressure switch. I'm pretty sure that if you're gonna build and plumb this beast, you can figure out how to make an inconspicuous vent opening. ;)  They also have this utterly delicious 3-in-1 enclosure for $104 and this much simpler 2-in-1 enclosure for $37. If only they would hire somebody who speaks English well enough to run a spell-checker...  |O 

That delightfully minimalist iron stand is here, but costs $28, and this dead-sexy alloy & Carbon fiber tube version of the stainless steel handle is only $22. So if you want to upgrade the entire business end of your T12 to the "new shiny", it'll cost you a cool $50.  I recognize these two items as accessories for their BSSS-01 "BattleStar Soldering Station" product a year or 3 ago; a limited edition beast CNC carved from a huge brick of anodized aluminum that sold for approx $300,  now discontinued. See below. ;)

mnem
*ZZZzzzZZZzzz...*
« Last Edit: January 23, 2019, 07:00:07 am by mnementh »
 
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