Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[0culus]

OK, so I've carefully gone through each synthesis band on the 8664 now (looking at narrowband CW on the 8566A)...only really saw a handful of very tiny spurs (some of which I can't reproduce so far). The 8664 uses the same 6 GHz YIG oscillator that the 8665 does, except using a divide-by-two synthesis method, with the bottom band mixed down with a LO.

I believe that the uneven responses I was seeing when looking at it with the 2-22 GHz band of the 8566A is related to a problem with the adjustment of the preselector circuit, and not a problem with the 8664.

[tautech]

On tants, some of them are pretty reliable in the Tek scopes. Ones to watch out for are:

1. Blue rectangular ones. Those nearly always go short. They always seem to use these for HT transformer primary decoupling. They go short and blow the HT fuse.
2. Big bold striped ones. Some are suspect. Buggers to find as they don't go totally short so you cant trace them with an ohmmeter.
3. Tubular wet tantalum. Usually Sprague 150D. Occasionally one will just explode just to make your day shitty.

The solid orange and solid blue ones are pretty reliable.

As I understand it those that are subjected to anywhere near their voltage rating at most at risk of frying.
Like the 15V rated ones used on the 12V rail. 

In general I find tants pretty reliable providing they're sufficiently down rated to like 2/3rds of their rating.

That does sortof make sense; since at the time, they were brand-new tech and likely the correlation between high-ripple/low-ESR and the resultant self-heating/premature heat-death wasn't as well understood as it is now. If they had under-rated voltage/selected for larger voltage overhead as aggressively as we do nowadays (when permitted by the bean-counters), these would probably NOT be Public Enemy No 1 as they are in here. 

Sure, however just like semiconductors tants reliability has improved immensely too over the decades.

One you hope to never have is a tant that sputters, that is short, self heal, short, self heal, rinse and repeat.
Reasonably rare and a real bitch to diagnose. 

I think this failure mode is why we down rate them so much

[mnementh]

Oh kiss my arse.  Nothing like a COLD beer on a hot day. 

+1 for the cold beer 

Absolutely     Go to sleep for a few hours and this thread goes to Warm and anti Beer sentiments. Warm to Hot climates need a cold beer and lukewarm to cold climates need tepid Beer.    And Like American Cheese most mainstream USA Beers are FAKE too. Coloured Fizzy Alcopops

Hey... don't you go raggin' on the US gubbermint cheeze... that shit was 100% real milk, real cheese and made by people who gave a shit that they were feeding our kids right. It was BLEEP!ing Unka Ronnie and his horde of scumbags who decided we didn't need those standards, just like they decided a packet of ketchup counted as a serving of vegetables. 

Now that yer done agitatin' the riff-raff, are the coffee & fresh-baked bread ready yet? 

mnem

P-P-Puhweeeze?

[beanflying]

Oh kiss my arse.  Nothing like a COLD beer on a hot day. 

+1 for the cold beer 

Absolutely     Go to sleep for a few hours and this thread goes to Warm and anti Beer sentiments. Warm to Hot climates need a cold beer and lukewarm to cold climates need tepid Beer.    And Like American Cheese most mainstream USA Beers are FAKE too. Coloured Fizzy Alcopops

Hey... don't you go raggin' on the US gubbermint cheeze... that shit was 100% real milk, real cheese and made by people who gave a shit that they were feeding our kids right. It was BLEEP!ing Unka Ronnie and his horde of scumbags who decided we didn't need those standards, just like they decided a packet of ketchup counted as a serving of vegetables. 

Now that yer done agitatin' the riff-raff, are the coffee & fresh-baked bread ready yet? 

mnem

P-P-Puhweeeze?

Nearly lunchtime and a bit cool today. B&E and day old Pane Di Casa toasted in the Bacon Fat is the likely outcome 

As to dumbing down Biscuits just say NO!

Todays archive randomness Bulk Biscotti, Totally Diabetic unfriendly Florentine's, ANZAC's made by a tame German Lady I used to employ (slightly perverse for those who know the History ) and the best bit of all shove them in a Barrel and collect the Dough 

_{American Cheese is still fake rubber bleh.}

[worsthorse]

Do you do an ESR test on the smaller value ones to decide whether they're suspect, or just visual inspection and the old "touch your iron to the PCB under/around the cap & smell for burning electrolyte" trick?

mnem
*Learning mode*

Just visual and is it easy to get to. Because I'm NOT pulling boards to do these replacements. Strictly from the top side which can be done on these double sided boards.

That's really good to know because I opened the sucker up and thought, there is no freakin' way i can get these boards out and then get 'em back in.  Will go your route, leave the boards in the box, replace the big ones, inspect the small ones.  Thanks.

[Carl_Smith]

All this talk of bacon makes me think of this scene from Futurama:
https://comb.io/zQciIk

Actually, damn near anything will remind me of something from Futurama.

[bitseeker]

Nearly into the Top 10 Topics (by Views) but languishing near the bottom of most thanked threads. 

Who hasn't thanked the OP bitseeker ?     Get onto it ! 

Nice work guys, we've jumped up the thanked threads to where we're unlikely to get pushed off it in a hurry and now into Top 10 Topics (by Views) where we can only go higher. 

Still we can do better < to all those holding back ! 

Thank you, tautech and everyone who chipped in. We're in a respectable spot on the board.

I'm amazed we finally made it on the top-10 for views. This is definitely more of a participation thread than a look-around one, so I thought it'd take much longer than it has.

[bitseeker]

And the beauty shot.

Wow, that's quite a stack you've got there!

[GreyWoolfe]

@ GreyWooolfe - There is a thing commonly sold as "Burgundy" which is a "fortified wine" little better than Thunderbird.    
mnem
Grey Goose goes with everything.

It is horrid stuff, total undrinkable unless you have no liver left.  However, even Mrs GreyWoolfe will admit that it adds a subtle but noticeable something in concert with all of the other ingredients that tickles the palette with no discordant notes that drinking it on its own <shudder at the thought> would impart.

Grey Goose may go with anything but stands well alone as the guard at the tomb of the unknown soldier.

[bitseeker]

It's funny how whenever we mention either bread or bacon that everyone gets the munchies on and tucks into some[emoji16]

Yes, quite dangerous it is. I'm thinking about hot fresh bread again, now that you mention it. 

[bitseeker]

Oh my g**!
Went to bed at 10pm last night and at 06:30am the next morning there are three more pages.
How many more will it be when I come home from work today?   

This thread is so time consuming to keep up with I don't have the time left for other TEA things..       

There have been several times when I was too busy to stay up-to-date and found myself 20 or more pages behind. It's a thing.^TM

I think this thread is evolving into its own forum 

Yeah, for real. There have been times when I've contemplated that seriously. However, I also don't want to disturb what's working. There are pros and cons either way.

[0culus]

And the beauty shot.

Wow, that's quite a stack you've got there!

Yeah, and boat anchor is right hahahaha. it's heavy as hell. The 8664A is 90 lbs, the 8566A system is around 120 lbs, the 3325B function generator above is probably 30-40 lbs?

I need a real bench...this table really isn't cutting it anymore. Fortunately I'm moving to a bigger house in the next few months so I will be able to start anew. 

[bitseeker]

A very belated thank you to bitseeker - congratulations on a corker of a thread

Thanks, Rob. I really must thank everyone who has made a post in this thread. A community is only as good as its members. Without them, it'd just be me, talking to myself about having too many multimeters one day and too many counters the next.

@beanflying - I will appreciate the work behind Danish pastries in the future - but there is a lot of poor quality food out there now - the mass produced stuff is getting worse but some of the hype around "boutique" gets up my nose - I detested nouvelle cuisine - I nearly commit murder if a waiter says "enjoy" after placing the plate. I also want to kill all of the master chef judges and contestants - "dis-mount" 
Having said that we have a few craft breweries around here that do a great lunch and a pleasant Ale or two - mmmmmmm

I second all of that and will add that even so-called healthy foods and food sources are just so the opposite, at least here in the US. Too much sugar. Too much sodium. Too many artificial this and that. I don't know about your neck of the woods.

[GregDunn]

I drink iced tea about 99% of the time... but the occasional beer with friends is still a joy (maybe 1 or at most 2 per week).  And if it's "snobbery" to want a beer that actually has some flavor to it instead of the horse p!$$ that the major breweries turn out - so be it.  In my group, we call dreck like Miller and Bud "making love in a canoe" because it's f*ing close to water.   

No, that's just having SOME minimum standards.     When I drank beer with my friends, it was purely social activity and my list of "tolerable" brews started with import Heinekin and went up from there. Old Swill and Pud weren't even on my RADAR.

When beer started giving me raging headaches even after just a couple, I decided it wasn't worth drinking something I NEVER LIKED the taste of just to be sociable, and started drinking soda or iced tea unless I felt like getting intoxicated; wherein I started drinking brandy or vodka and never looked back.

No, beer snobbery is all this "artisan beer" and microbrewery bullshit.  Fucking amateurs thinking they're somehow better than aunt Fanny and her bathtub wine; most of 'em are no better than mountain-william rotgut & eyeball remover. 

I was put off beer until I was well into my 20s, simply because all people had around my hometown was that mass-market slop and I detested the watery, sour stuff - most of it made from rice instead of barley or wheat.  Once I tasted a good German dark, or a UK stout, I found I actually could savor it along with a meal.  Still can't drink it by itself most of the time, even so.  And hard liquor - not to my taste at all, so I quit looking at it 40 years ago.

One of the problems with the backlash to the "big 3" macro-breweries and the growth of small taps is that everyone thinks they're a braümeister now.  Locally, it's hard to find anything that isn't doubly-bitter IPA or caffeinated, carbonated sludge.  The IPAs taste like skunk juice smells to me.  When out of town doing photo shoots, I actually will arrange travel to go through a couple of places which have properly-made German dunkel on tap if I want something to go with a meal on the way home.  Once or twice a month is about all I need anyway.

[mnementh]

Now that yer done agitatin' the riff-raff, are the coffee & fresh-baked bread ready yet? 

mnem

P-P-Puhweeeze?

Nearly lunchtime and a bit cool today. B&E and day old Pane Di Casa toasted in the Bacon Fat is the likely outcome 

As to dumbing down Biscuits just say NO!

Todays archive randomness Bulk Biscotti, Totally Diabetic unfriendly Florentine's, ANZAC (biscuit)s made by a tame German Lady I used to employ (slightly perverse for those who know the History ) and the best bit of all shove them in a Barrel and collect the Dough 

_{American Cheese is still fake rubber bleh.}

It ALL sounds like heaven to me right now, after cooking 3 lbs of frozen ATTACK BACON!!! to make sure it's well and truly dead. Like I need an excuse to cook 3 lbs of bacon anyways. But  several days' worth of bacon, dirty fried eggs and buttery cornbread were the byproduct, so even though my foot is still throbbing, a win overall.

I feel the same way about cornbread, so truce, okay? I'll come eat all the fresh biscuits you can make if I ever succeed in getting to Oz, I do solemnly swear!

There is no such thing. The perverse part is that you still don't know it.
But add some honey and too many raisins to that biscuit, and it would make a passable oatmeal-raisin cookie. 

_{In as much as it is essentially yellow Monterey Jack cheese, I suppose you could say that. Anything made by KRAFT (now virtually synonymous with the product) is exactly that; they can't even call it cheese, they have to call it "cheese food" or "cheese product".}

mnem
I prefer a nice extra sharp cheddar, especially with a slice of hot apple pie; but alas, my wife & kids will not touch the stuff.

[mnementh]

All this talk of bacon makes me think of this scene from Futurama: https://comb.io/zQciIk   Actually, damn near anything will remind me of something from Futurama.

That's because it is one of those pretty much timeless shows; while peppered with topical humor and social commentary, it is still primarily about Life, the Universe and Everything Important. 

mnem
*timelibbth*

[Neomys Sapiens]

@Beanflying: do you run a bakery now on the side? I thought you were roasting coffee? But B&E = break and enter?
Whoa! Watch your rear!
But I think that first picture should have been called Cantuccini (we have a sizeable italian population here - even with own supermarkets). And those florentines should have been in the adapter pack! ALL OF THEM!

[beanflying]

@Beanflying: do you run a bakery now on the side? I thought you were roasting coffee? But B&E = break and enter?
Whoa! Watch your rear!
But I think that first picture should have been called Cantuccini (we have a sizeable italian population here - even with own supermarkets). And those florentines should have been in the adapter pack! ALL OF THEM!

Potted non History. I am an EE who worked with Pumps and Control Systems so more Mech/Chem Eng then ran away screaming from the Big Smoke aged 33 to Fly Kites and Play with Toys for well over 10 years Enter the 'need' for decent coffee in the Bush and eventually lead me into a 2nd mid life crisis of Coffee and then way into the Rabbit hole of a Cafe making 90%+ of it's food from scratch and Market Food and Coffee on the 8th day of the week. Now back to EE'ing of a fashion with Coffee and some food on the side at markets. I now have 'some' life again. If any tells you they are going to open a cafe hit them quickly with a very large stick!

B&E = Bacon and Eggs be they fried, boiled, poached and best of all now in my Belly 

[bitseeker]

Getting back to TEA, ebay is bleeding dead at the moment, anxious for new toys I can't believe it but I'm even looking at 3.5 digit bench meters  , I need one of those don't I, I mean I don't any bench meters less than 4.5 and I have stacks of handhelds at 3.5....how many meters does a person require FFS?

I mostly run my 3478A in 3.5 digit mode if I'm honest. And the other meter on the bench today is an 8010A. For perhaps 90% of the tasks it's fine. Why not the 87V? Well it's there somewhere, under a pile of crap at the moment (I am mid build on something!). Big advantage of the bench meters is they're quite hard to lose

Running bench meters at lower resolution offers an oft-overlooked benefit of high-res DMMs: They're even faster when they have fewer digits to deal with.

For example, for the 3478A on 60Hz power, in DCV, DCA or resistance mode with auto zero enabled, you get 2.3 readings/sec at 5.5 digits, but 60 readings/sec at 3.5 digits.

The 34401A is only 6 readings/sec at 6.5 digits, but a whopping 1000 readings/sec at 4.5 digits (which can be logged at that rate via GPIB).

Don't need that speed for DC measurements? Me either. But it also means continuity testing is much faster with a bench DMM, too. The 34401A response time is about 3 ms. No laggy beeper here even when dragging over IC pins looking for shorts.

[mnementh]

Nearly into the Top 10 Topics (by Views) but languishing near the bottom of most thanked threads. 

Who hasn't thanked the OP bitseeker ?     Get onto it ! 

Nice work guys, we've jumped up the thanked threads to where we're unlikely to get pushed off it in a hurry and now into Top 10 Topics (by Views) where we can only go higher. 

Still we can do better < to all those holding back ! 

Thank you, tautech and everyone who chipped in. We're in a respectable spot on the board.

I'm amazed we finally made it on the top-10 for views. This is definitely more of a participation thread than a look-around one, so I thought it'd take much longer than it has.

I think that's because word got out that we're pretty much the Monty Python of the board; people tune in just to see what the next train wreck is gonna be like... 

mnem


"John: Oh Gawd, there were girls, right? Feathered chicks... the Rainbow Coalition...?"
"D'Argo: Girls... breasts... blue breasts, green breasts, I don't know. All I know is they spiked our drinks and took our money."
John:"D'Argo... we're in a window. There are people watching."
D'Argo: "Uh huh. I think they've been there for about seven arns, so why don't you just get dressed and give them a good show, sweetheart."
John: "I am dressed." (Looks down) "AAAAIEEEEEK!"

[mnementh]

@Beanflying: do you run a bakery now on the side? I thought you were roasting coffee? But B&E = break and enter?
Whoa! Watch your rear!
But I think that first picture should have been called Cantuccini (we have a sizeable italian population here - even with own supermarkets). And those Florentines should have been in the adapter pack! ALL OF THEM!

Potted non History. I am an EE who worked with Pumps and Control Systems so more Mech/Chem Eng then ran away screaming from the Big Smoke aged 33 to Fly Kites and Play with Toys for well over 10 years Enter the 'need' for decent coffee in the Bush and eventually lead me into a 2nd mid life crisis of Coffee and then way into the Rabbit hole of a Cafe making 90%+ of it's food from scratch and Market Food and Coffee on the 8th day of the week. Now back to EE'ing of a fashion with Coffee and some food on the side at markets. I now have 'some' life again. If any tells you they are going to open a cafe hit them quickly with a very large stick!

B&E = Bacon and Eggs be they fried, boiled, poached and best of all now in my Belly 

*Passes the Stick of Enlightenment on to beanflying*

"Use it wisely, my son. Use it often and without hesitation; wherever it is most needed."

mnem
 

[bitseeker]

The solid orange and solid blue ones are pretty reliable but that does correlate with mnem as they are usually 1uF or 2.2uF

And who am I, chopped liver??? 

Maybe. Definitely not sliced bread.

[bitseeker]

Thank you, tautech and everyone who chipped in. We're in a respectable spot on the board.

I'm amazed we finally made it on the top-10 for views. This is definitely more of a participation thread than a look-around one, so I thought it'd take much longer than it has.

I think that's because word got out that we're pretty much the Monty Python of the board; people tune in just to see what the next train wreck is gonna be like... 

We've certainly perfected the "and now for something completely different" part.

[tautech]

Thank you, tautech and everyone who chipped in. We're in a respectable spot on the board.

I'm amazed we finally made it on the top-10 for views. This is definitely more of a participation thread than a look-around one, so I thought it'd take much longer than it has.

I think that's because word got out that we're pretty much the Monty Python of the board; people tune in just to see what the next train wreck is gonna be like... 

We've certainly perfected the "and now for something completely different" part.

Yep big time so........ 

Potted non History. I am an EE who worked with Pumps and Control Systems .................

Bean:
I wanna add some simple dry run protection to that new multistage pump.

I was thinking about using an old style membrane pressure switch that’s Normally Closed when pump is OFF and use a timer to keep the pump ON and give say 2s delay after which it goes Open when the pressure is sensed and the pump stays ON and bypasses the ON timer.

I have LV RF control circuitry and cascading relays before the 3 phase contactor where I can cut this circuit into the LV (12V) ON/OFF relay.

We looked at PLC’s and flow and pressure sensors today but crazy $$$ so being cheapskate and wanting to KISS so I’m looking for a real simple timer method to have a lock out after 1-2s if the pump doesn’t supply pressure/flow. A pressure check shows me it’s pumping to ~100 PSI.

So what best could/should it be ?

555 + bipolar relay driver ?
RC and a single bipolar ?
One shot IC ?
Monostable timer ?

[beanflying]

Pressure/LOP or even LOP only will only work in your case if an upstream checkvalve holds 100% otherwise you can potentially be in a situation of no flow but pressurised by the Tank and Static head of your water column. That said we used to use them on budget jobs or as belt and braces with a flow switch.

The best option (and most expensive) was at the time https://mackvalves.com/flowswitch-2/ with an integral timer set to about 15-30 seconds. They are a proper industrial control but given the then replacement stack cost at the time on a 4-120 of over $800 they were cheap insurance at $220 (from memory).

Quick check on evilbay for 'paddle flow switch' got a heap of hits for under $20 AUpesos so grab one and 555 timer up a delay and feed in into your 3 phase contactor.