Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 1730410 times)

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Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29150 on: April 12, 2019, 03:38:03 am »
Sometimes you are your own worst enemy.

Case in point. The Tek 2430 DSO. I showed the other day a successful repair by replacement of the entire analog board from the parts mule. It was fine until the very next day when I went to power it up and it started taking solid channel 1 gain and offset fails again. Same fail as from prior to the board replacement and the same as the week before when I had the same condition occur. Repaired but next day upon power up it failed same as before. The fail points squarely at the CCD hybrid module and initially replacement didn't fix it but now I know why.

So in this latest fail I decided once again to change the channel 1 CCD hybrid with the channel 2 CCD hybrid from the board I removed. It worked. Clean boot, cal done. Works fine. Put it back in the case and powered it up and let it burn in for about 6 hours sitting on the bench. No issues. Powered it off and let it sit for a while. Powered up and again clean boot and works fine. This is really baffling. So I go to put the 2430 back in it's original location and that's when the light bulb came on and I realized I was a jerk.

The 2430 normally resides stacked on top of a 2465. After each time I repaired the 2430 and I was satisfied that the burn in was OK I would put it back on top of the 2465 then run it more. It was from this point where upon the next power up it would fail again. The 2430 is about 2 inches longer than the 2465 so it over hangs in the back and is not supported by it's rear feet. So towards the rear the bottom of the 2430 case is directly against the top of the 2465 case. What I didn't realize was there are vents in the bottom rear of the 2430 case directly below these hybrids. With it being stacked as described the vents were blocked. Obviously this caused the hybrids to run hot. I surmise that they were fine, although probably near their thermal limit, as long as powered on but as soon as power was turned off and the fan stopped their temperature spiked before cooling which resulted in damaging them. But you wouldn't know this until the next power on. Mystery solved. But unfortunately I damaged 2 precious hybrids and the last good one is currently installed. I've since rearranged things so the 2430 is now up on it's bail and all underside vents clear. It's been operating fine for 3 days now with multiple power cycles and no fails. I think I can call it fixed....finally.

The hybrids that were damaged are the 2 large ones with the full vertical fins. Channel 2 top with channel 1 below it. Tek 165-2074 version 3 and 4. It's obvious just looking at their design that they run hot. I'll bet with the vents blocked they were smoking. I did some research and they ain't cheap when available. Starting at $45 USD and up. And I also found out that they are a known fail point. So there's no guarantee if you buy one it's going to work. So I have to make absolutely sure that this 2430 is kept cool. And now I understand why it has such a large and somewhat noisy fan.       

 
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Offline 0culus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29151 on: April 12, 2019, 03:42:45 am »
Ouch, that's a tough way to figure that out. Glad you were able to fix it.

On the bright side, maybe you could decap one of the burned up hybrids for fun and see what makes it tick.  :-+
 

Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29152 on: April 12, 2019, 04:02:50 am »
Here, if what you're doing is not a 'permitted activity' as per the local council bylaws neighbors can dob you in.
If you're in the wrong zone there's only so much you can get away with.  :(
You know you're in trouble when there's a list with permitted activities instead of one with activities that aren't permitted.
Here they have 3 lists; Permitted, Restricted and Non-Permitted (banned) and it works pretty well until some 'outsider' comes into a zoning different from whence they came and then starts bitching about what's going on.
These are the ones that can have the greatest impact on existing residents lifestyle when it comes to District Scheme review time and lodge all sorts of  :bullshit: submissions based on how they think the zone should be.
Interlopers is what the wife calls them and just a few years in the country is all they normally can stomach before they pack up and head back to the city........only to replaced by another with similar views and then rinse and repeat.  :horse:

Luckily we had a real-estate law change a few years back the requires full disclosure from the agents to potential buyers so now we get into the agents ear right after listing so any potential buyer knows what to expect should they buy close to a commercial rural property.



Fukkem.  :-DD

mnem
*toddles off to ded*  :=\
 
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29153 on: April 12, 2019, 06:51:25 am »
Anyone feel like a trip down memory lane or need to use their logic analyser? This could be yours for only $1000 AUpesos  :o eBay auction: #192882459225

If not identical to what we played with at Uni is is very close to it. Ah HEX how I have forgotten most of what I once knew.



I think the one I used at Uni was an Intel SDK-86. At least it looked pretty similar.
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Online tggzzz

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29154 on: April 12, 2019, 07:27:02 am »
So this was shared in another thread, but with Tektronix discontinuing their logic analyzer line, this is what they recommend to replace the TLA7000 series:

"The TLA7000 is no longer available for purchase. The Tektronix 5 Series MSO and 6 Series MSO are recommended replacements. Information on these products is located at... "

I guess there aren't too many applications in real world R&D for a full up logic analyzer anymore, outside of stuff like DDR memory, but this is still kinda sad.
This matches my observation that nearly none of the companies involved in embedded design that I came to know in the last 10 years has a real emulator (ICE) for their chosen platform available. Before that, the posession and use of such was widely regarded as the watershed between µC professionals and everething else.

What do you mean by an ICE?

Given the difficulty of accessing the internal state of most modern processors, I'd have thought it difficult to have a traditional ICE. But that's been the case for more than 10 years.

I don't regard JTAG debugging as "traditional IDE", since it implies that the only debugging mechanisms are only those inside the procedssor and provided by the processor manufacturer.
ICE = In-Circuit Emulator
Well, my last deeper involvement with the digital innards was 2008..2011 and it was concerned with 68k devices.
For those, such contraptions do exist. There was even one available, as well as a maxed-out Tek logic analyzer.
But you are right, I could have written 'last 20 years' as well.

68k devices would be fine with ICE; I used them in the 80s.

But when you get to more modern OOO devices with register renaming, caches, speculative execution and whatnot, I doubt ICE would work. Even JTAG plus an internal "logic analyser" would seem to be problematic. Even in FPGAs, internal logic analysers such as the Xilinx ChipScope aren't problem free.

Of course, if you are into hard realtime embedded system, there is only one answer: the XMOS xCORE processors. There the timing of the 4000MIPs processors is guaranteed by the ICE before execution; none of this "execute and hope we spotted a worst case" rubbish :) . But that's a different story.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2019, 08:01:20 am by tggzzz »
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Online tggzzz

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29155 on: April 12, 2019, 07:33:48 am »
Anyone feel like a trip down memory lane or need to use their logic analyser? This could be yours for only $1000 AUpesos  :o eBay auction: #192882459225

If not identical to what we played with at Uni is is very close to it. Ah HEX how I have forgotten most of what I once knew.



I think the one I used at Uni was an Intel SDK-86. At least it looked pretty similar.

The project on the next bench to mine played with one of those c1980. Never liked the x86 family.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Online bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29156 on: April 12, 2019, 07:41:06 am »
Just checked my HP voltmeter delivery status and found out they used Hermes. Nooooooo  :--
 

Online beanflying

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29157 on: April 12, 2019, 07:49:52 am »
Anyone feel like a trip down memory lane or need to use their logic analyser? This could be yours for only $1000 AUpesos  :o eBay auction: #192882459225

If not identical to what we played with at Uni is is very close to it. Ah HEX how I have forgotten most of what I once knew.



I think the one I used at Uni was an Intel SDK-86. At least it looked pretty similar.

The project on the next bench to mine played with one of those c1980. Never liked the x86 family.

We had very little Intel anything at Uni, heavy on Motorola and HP Lab and mainframes/mini computer systems.

Cleanup continues kept a proper clicky Compaq from the Six PS2 keyboards in the junk and one ball mouse out of four plus all the adapters :palm:
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Online VK5RC

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29158 on: April 12, 2019, 08:03:45 am »
In Oz, we had an interesting time when they 1st brought in mobile phone towers, all the NIMBY complaints resulted in some local council bylaws that tried to outlaw them. There is a federal statute that Federal Law (the one in Oz that covers radio towers) wins over local laws. For us hams it means that we can have towers up to 10m high, with only engineering approval, or an antenna 2m above the height of the house (the TV antenna rule).
Diplomacy with neighbors always wins though, helping repair 'stuff' helps get approval for antennas!
Whoah! Watch where that landed we might need it later.
 

Online beanflying

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29159 on: April 12, 2019, 08:25:48 am »
Sort of a moral Evilbay Delema such it is 'moral'. Saga of the under performing NiMh D cells I got a while ago. Tried to contact them but got no response after eBay auction: #301091455203 'claimed' 10,000mAh was under 5000 on all cells during several test cycles.

I finally got around to giving negative feedback yesterday which actually triggered a response asking why I left that feedback?  :palm:

Quote
Seller is using a FALSE and misleading description. 4000mA is NOT 10,000mAh!

Several to and fro messages and I got a Bribe offered in the amount of $30 refund off the purchase price of $66 to revise my feedback to positive. The seller has sold 9000 Cells as far as I can tell @ circa $6 each for an income of $45,000 worth of Fraud.

1: Go to Fair Trading NSW and get them to take action?

2: Take the Bribe and Kiss their ass so they can continue to defraud others and report them to Fair Trading?

3: Ask for a full refund and then take them to Fair Trading?
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Online bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29160 on: April 12, 2019, 08:29:20 am »
I would go "full wanker".

1. Open a case with ebay against them, providing evidence.
2. Get full refund.
3. Spend the next 6 months reporting every one of their damn auctions as fraudulent

If something doesn't work, I will only accept full refund myself otherwise the seller still makes a profit.
 
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29161 on: April 12, 2019, 10:27:05 am »
 :palm:
Sometimes you are your own worst enemy.

Case in point. The Tek 2430 DSO. I showed the other day a successful repair by replacement of the entire analog board from the parts mule. It was fine until the very next day when I went to power it up and it started taking solid channel 1 gain and offset fails again. Same fail as from prior to the board replacement and the same as the week before when I had the same condition occur. Repaired but next day upon power up it failed same as before. The fail points squarely at the CCD hybrid module and initially replacement didn't fix it but now I know why.

So in this latest fail I decided once again to change the channel 1 CCD hybrid with the channel 2 CCD hybrid from the board I removed. It worked. Clean boot, cal done. Works fine. Put it back in the case and powered it up and let it burn in for about 6 hours sitting on the bench. No issues. Powered it off and let it sit for a while. Powered up and again clean boot and works fine. This is really baffling. So I go to put the 2430 back in it's original location and that's when the light bulb came on and I realized I was a jerk.

The 2430 normally resides stacked on top of a 2465. After each time I repaired the 2430 and I was satisfied that the burn in was OK I would put it back on top of the 2465 then run it more. It was from this point where upon the next power up it would fail again. The 2430 is about 2 inches longer than the 2465 so it over hangs in the back and is not supported by it's rear feet. So towards the rear the bottom of the 2430 case is directly against the top of the 2465 case. What I didn't realize was there are vents in the bottom rear of the 2430 case directly below these hybrids. With it being stacked as described the vents were blocked. Obviously this caused the hybrids to run hot. I surmise that they were fine, although probably near their thermal limit, as long as powered on but as soon as power was turned off and the fan stopped their temperature spiked before cooling which resulted in damaging them. But you wouldn't know this until the next power on. Mystery solved. But unfortunately I damaged 2 precious hybrids and the last good one is currently installed. I've since rearranged things so the 2430 is now up on it's bail and all underside vents clear. It's been operating fine for 3 days now with multiple power cycles and no fails. I think I can call it fixed....finally.

The hybrids that were damaged are the 2 large ones with the full vertical fins. Channel 2 top with channel 1 below it. Tek 165-2074 version 3 and 4. It's obvious just looking at their design that they run hot. I'll bet with the vents blocked they were smoking. I did some research and they ain't cheap when available. Starting at $45 USD and up. And I also found out that they are a known fail point. So there's no guarantee if you buy one it's going to work. So I have to make absolutely sure that this 2430 is kept cool. And now I understand why it has such a large and somewhat noisy fan.       

 

Its a poor design if it is so dependant on having a totally unrestricted access to full and complete airflow around it. Would have thought that they could have designed it to employ 1 massive heatsink that covered all the hybrids and maybe wrap around the sides with vertical fins to help extract the heat away from the chipsets and assist in dissipating the heat naturally without relying on forced air which we know can fail at any time. :palm:
Who let Murphy in?
 

Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29162 on: April 12, 2019, 11:23:27 am »
I agree and as I mentioned a few weeks ago when I pulled the case for the first time I quickly discovered that it was 5 pounds stuffed into a 2 pound bag.  :scared: It's a first generation DSO dating from the 1980's and the component count is truly amazing vs the function which is ridiculously meager compared to today's offerings. It would have been better if Tek fashioned it into a mainframe sort of construction but obviously they wanted to make it portable. So this is what we got. Packed tight with a big ass fan to keep it cool. And I have to insure all case vents are clear at all times.  I powered it up again this morning and it's working fine. That's the longest it's run error free since I got it. I'm just glad I figured out what was going on before I blew up the last remaining hybrid.  :phew: 
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Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29163 on: April 12, 2019, 11:32:31 am »
I would go "full wanker".

1. Open a case with ebay against them, providing evidence.
2. Get full refund.
3. Spend the next 6 months reporting every one of their damn auctions as fraudulent

If something doesn't work, I will only accept full refund myself otherwise the seller still makes a profit.

Agree 100% but I'm not sure about the "wanker" part. I thought that was a British term for "self abuse"  :-DD
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Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29164 on: April 12, 2019, 11:34:43 am »
My latest delivery status with incompetent USPS....

The tant's are at my local PO. Should be delivered today.  :-+

The 4x attenuator is STILL at JFK.  :wtf:  :--
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Offline Brumby

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29165 on: April 12, 2019, 11:42:25 am »
I have a pain in the butt seller at the moment.

I ordered the amplifier module for Dave's $10 EM probe from them.  Didn't turn up.  The tracking number they gave did have one event - details received.  It never showed as having been received by the post office, let alone any tracking events.  I complained, they refunded.  I left feedback - a Neutral with a factual statement that was rather benign.

The seller contacted me and asked me if I would revise by feedback to a positive.  I responded that my neutral rating was an accurate reflection of my experience.  They responded to that - so I responded again... and so on and so forth.

To date, we've had 5 rounds of this dance - and I'm currently waiting for them to start round 6.  If they do, I think I'm going to add a follow-up to the feedback.

I don't know if I'm annoyed by this - or entertained - but either way, it's ridiculous.
 

Online beanflying

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29166 on: April 12, 2019, 11:43:28 am »
I would go "full wanker".

1. Open a case with ebay against them, providing evidence.
2. Get full refund.
3. Spend the next 6 months reporting every one of their damn auctions as fraudulent

If something doesn't work, I will only accept full refund myself otherwise the seller still makes a profit.

Agree 100% but I'm not sure about the "wanker" part. I thought that was a British term for "self abuse"  :-DD

Before Croc Dundee there was only one Wanker  :-DD

https://youtu.be/6Bcb-TLFphM
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Online bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29167 on: April 12, 2019, 12:18:09 pm »
That's a classic.

"wanker" here is anyone who annoys you a little bit but not enough to escalate to something ruder. Guy cuts you up? wanker. Neighbour being a dick? Wanker. Guy short changes you in a shop? Wanker. Accompanied by fist making masturbation movements usually if the person can't hear you i.e. through car window.

 

Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29168 on: April 12, 2019, 12:28:34 pm »
OK, got it. We're a little more direct on this side of the pond. Asshole is the word of the day. And even if you mouth it from a closed car window they know exactly what you called them.  :-DD 

Edit...and yes...accompanied by the bird.  >:D
« Last Edit: April 12, 2019, 12:30:43 pm by med6753 »
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Online bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29169 on: April 12, 2019, 12:50:33 pm »
Yep I suppose that's exactly synonymous :)

Playing with 2m today. Managed to poke to the local repeater finally. Anyone there? Nope! :(
 

Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29170 on: April 12, 2019, 01:47:01 pm »
Playing with 2m today. Managed to poke to the local repeater finally. Anyone there? Nope! :(

But if there was you'd have to talk with them. And they might be a real wanker.  :P :P :-DD :-DD
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Online bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29171 on: April 12, 2019, 01:55:31 pm »
True! TBF there's a couple of locals who don't go to the clubs who aren't wankers. Just slightly out of range for TX to them on 5W hence the repeater futzing. Plus I need to learn how all this shit works anyway.
 

Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29172 on: April 12, 2019, 02:03:06 pm »
I would go "full wanker".

1. Open a case with ebay against them, providing evidence.
2. Get full refund.
3. Spend the next 6 months reporting every one of their damn auctions as fraudulent

If something doesn't work, I will only accept full refund myself otherwise the seller still makes a profit.

Agree 100% but I'm not sure about the "wanker" part. I thought that was a British term for "self abuse" :-DD

Literal definition vs connotative.

As someone with considerable experience in both aspects of the term, I'll tell you it DOES make a difference when and where you are which.
:-DD


As far as the "moral dilemma" part... since they only bothered to respond to you AFTER you posted feedback... I would file a dispute "Not As Described" (actually would have done so as soon as my second attempt at contact went unanswered) and carry through with it. MAKE THE SOB PAY for return shipping AND full refund.

THEN... and ONLY THEN... post negative feedback stating only the facts: 1/2 advertised capacity, no response from seller, had to file claim w/eBay.

DO NOT post anything even marginally abusive; calling the guy a scammer or anything worse than "non-responsive seller" is the surest way to get your feedback scrubbed.

Case in point... my first 189 meter (y'all remember THAT drama  :palm:) that turned out to be scavenged for parts AFTER the photo was taken.

AFTER bickering back & forth, AFTER the entire claims process, and after a full refund... Seller tried to leave disparaging comment of "Sold AS-IS, idiot!" in a POSITIVE feedback. eBay immediately scrubbed that feedback, while my negative, factual feedback remains even now.



mnem
*un-wankerized*
« Last Edit: April 12, 2019, 02:08:22 pm by mnementh »
 

Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29173 on: April 12, 2019, 02:37:16 pm »
True! TBF there's a couple of locals who don't go to the clubs who aren't wankers. Just slightly out of range for TX to them on 5W hence the repeater futzing. Plus I need to learn how all this shit works anyway.


https://www.amazon.com/BaoFeng-Amateur-Walkie-Talkie-Mirkit/dp/B072HXQ5GG

Not sure if this is entirely a firmware hack, or if it is a combination of firmware/hardware mod. I tripped over it some time ago but haven't had time for couldn't be arsed to research.  :-DD   

I'm sure you must have something similar available over there.

Okay... a little research: Their firmware is version BFP3-23.


mnem
 :popcorn:
« Last Edit: April 12, 2019, 02:44:35 pm by mnementh »
 

Online bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29174 on: April 12, 2019, 03:30:30 pm »
8W eyeball toaster - no thanks!  ... Got a contact a few minutes ago on a radio check call through the repeater. Winner winner chicken dinner

Using an FT25 for ref which is Yaesu's baofeng clone (same chipset). They managed to make the software and interface less shit though. ML&S are selling them off cheap because they had an order cancelled :D

Now to try and get that VHF antenna up without anyone moaning.

This is all making me think I need a cheap VNA of some sort. There's an excuse for TEA in anything.
 


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