Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[wch]

Yes, but my point was that the entire MHz Hz part of the MHz symbol is a single custom character in a custom font, purpose-made and baked into the silicon, just so they could fit it all in the space of one character; and that they did this so it could be generated fast enough to render legibly in the space between sweeps on a 400MHz scope. In the age of the VIC-20 and Commodore-64.

Now THAT is some fucking hardcore engineering, and it was on something so mundane, we don't even give it a second thought... things like THAT are what set Tek apart. 



mnem
*Big fan of old school*

I had this discussion the other day... Why do you use this old stuff when you can buy a brand x fill-in-the-blank that does all that, is firmware upgradable, weighs a tenth as much, and has a color screen and wifi, to boot? Because...

• dollar for dollar, it generally works better, especially at the limits,
• it is often more reliable in the oops-i-shouldn't-have-done-that sense,
• it is thoroughly documented with schematics, BOMs, test procedures, and almost always, theory of operation information,
• it is repairable by design,
• it is more carefully manufactured,
• it was designed by people that used what they built, every single day.

I am glad I own a Siglent SA that, for 1300USD, doesn't take a lot of square inches of bench, and works well enough for ninety-five percent of what I do. But it is, for the most part, an unfathomable, unrepairable, unmodifiable (except by accident) black box. More importantly, it is not a joy to operate because Siglent's objectives are quite different from those of the people that designed and built my big, heavy, beautiful 475 and it shows in every way.

At this point, the eyes of my young interlocutor glazed over, and I stopped ranting. 

And, yes, I need coffee.

[med6753]

Guilty on all counts... though I've never done the last one as a permanent repair; only as a diag step. Well, okay... that's a lie.  I've done it on stuff I never intended to let anybody else use but me.  We've all MacGyver-fied stuff for our own use.   

And I've done some truly horrific stuff cutting & splicing to make power packs out of other power packs... 

Good / fast / cheap. Pick any two one. And hurry up; this POS already done pissed me off. 

You're just jealous of my booty fab skills. 
mnem
*Hangs head in mock shame* 

Yep, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do!        Can I get a touche??? 

Nope. I'm gonna cling to my position with a death-grip: That particular "fix" is an order of magnitude more evil than anything I've ever done; it went way beyond "Bodge", "MacGyver-fying" or "Empirical Engineering" and landed squarely in the "Butchery / Ghetto-rigged" category...   

I get needing the instrument WORKING... But no reason in the world you couldn't have left that back cover off until you get around to fixing it proper with a new fan motor or source a squirrelcage fan of the proper dimensions to fit in that spacious cavity. 

Of course, this is coming from a guy who just spent $75 to ship a gift Tek 454... so judge my position accordingly. 

I know full well that half the allure of that hack for you was knowing that it would make me cringe so hard you could hear it from all the way over there. 

mnem
Harrumphh!

You're just jealous of my booty fab skills. 

[bd139]

On scopes, I'm finding that the Tek 2225's trigger is a fuck load better than the Rigol one. Bear in mind it's a 50MHz unit it'll trigger up to 180MHz. Rigol one won't trigger at all on this particular waveform as it's got a high harmonic content unless I do a single capture. How did Rigol screw that up?

Good triggering is often vital when debugging, and always was a strong point with Tek scopes.

Here's an assessment: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/which-oscilloscope-to-choose-for-libs/msg772010/#msg772010
which includes "Thus I used over 60 different customer supplied oscilloscopes.  ...  A surprising number of small 100 Mhz and up  low end scopes, no matter what vendor,  had lousy trigger hardware and even worse trigger software."

Yes I have to agree with the hardware and software comment there. Shockingly I played with an MSO5000 on the Telonic stand on Sunday and that's a piece of shit as well.

I've done the debugging I needed to do with the Rigol. Thinking of shifting it again. I lose £40 and gain a BM22s every time I flog one I bought so not the end of the world and I solved a difficult CAN bus problem in the car with it (citroen SMM was bloody wrong!). The audio control stalk refused to work with the new radio I put in it as the Citroen bluetooth receiver was a poppy pile of shit. Fucking wheeled computers. Hankering for a defender again now. All you needed to fix most things was a DMM and a hammer

[med6753]

I've done the debugging I needed to do with the Rigol. Thinking of shifting it again. I lose £40 and gain a BM22s every time I flog one I bought so not the end of the world and I solved a difficult CAN bus problem in the car with it (citroen SMM was bloody wrong!). The audio control stalk refused to work with the new radio I put in it as the Citroen bluetooth receiver was a poppy pile of shit. Fucking wheeled computers. Hankering for a defender again now. All you needed to fix most things was a DMM and a hammer

It's French. What do you expect? 

[bd139]

Better than the Italian POS I had before! 

[beanflying]

Someone should really make @Med a nice 3DP Fan mount for that butchered horror show hack 

I'm game. What you got? 

I need something dimensionally to work from and I don't own a Tek of that persuasion   Failing that you do the drawings and someone might make it for you 

After midnight and I am waiting for the last Tek foot Cap to come off the printer  Foreground is the 100% 3DP rear is the complete surviving original one.

[med6753]

Better than the Italian POS I had before! 

Well, gee.....Fix It Again Tony. 

[mnementh]

...At this point, the eyes of my young interlocutor glazed over, and I stopped ranting. 

And, yes, I need coffee.

You SO belong here. Have a breakfast taco on me. 

...I know full well that half the allure of that hack for you was knowing that it would make me cringe so hard you could hear it from all the way over there. 

mnem
Harrumphh!

You're just jealous of my booty fab skills. 

Yes... that's EXACTLY how you "fixed" it... I bet there's bits of dead horse in there somewhere, cuz you damn sure didn't clean the crowbar off before you attacked that poor 2465 with it.   

mnem
Also, I did notice that you're NOT denying my point above...   

[tggzzz]

I've done the debugging I needed to do with the Rigol. Thinking of shifting it again. I lose £40 and gain a BM22s every time I flog one I bought so not the end of the world and I solved a difficult CAN bus problem in the car with it (citroen SMM was bloody wrong!). The audio control stalk refused to work with the new radio I put in it as the Citroen bluetooth receiver was a poppy pile of shit. Fucking wheeled computers. Hankering for a defender again now. All you needed to fix most things was a DMM and a hammer

Plus a blacksmith's forge for the big bits of metal. Or a tree, if the leaf-springs went.

I has a series II from 1959.

When one of the windscreen wipers failed just before an MoT, I simply removed that motor and wiper. It had to pass, since the test said "windscreen wipers must work, if fitted". Wheel fell off while I was overtaking (eek!); all I had to do was retrieve it and bolt it on. Another bolt was used when the fuel tank partially fell off. Ditto when the engine mounting broke in a campsite (admittedly I did have a spare, as one does) .

[tggzzz]

Better than the Italian POS I had before! 

Wasn't it the Lancia Delta that rusted before you got it home?

If you like "quirky", try a French car.

[mnementh]

Someone should really make @Med a nice 3DP Fan mount for that butchered horror show hack 

I'm game. What you got? 

I need something dimensionally to work from and I don't own a Tek of that persuasion   Failing that you do the drawings and someone might make it for you 

After midnight and I am waiting for the last Tek foot Cap to come off the printer  Foreground is the 100% 3DP rear is the complete surviving original one.

You fuckers; now you're ganging up on me. You're gonna make me drag out my parts mule and figure out what he needs to fix it right, aren't ya? 

Bean, maybe you should move that OE foot up to the top row, so it's not the one that always gets whacked when you pick the beast up. That worked for several years on my 454 before the remaining ones crumbled of their own accord...

mnem
*Shuffle-shuffle... rummage-rummage...*

[Specmaster]

Spent the evening with the guy who saved a workshop of electronics from a real estate agent's dumpster. Tested scopes, service monitors, power supplies and meters. I came away with a Fluke 8800 (working),  HP3400A (not working), HP PSU (not working, don't remember the number) and he has three scopes, two service monitors, and a power supply to sell on ebay.

The find of the evening came while we were sorting through boxes of printer switches, random power cords, etc:



Damn if it didn't have the AC adapter still attached and lit up when I hit the power switch.  Do you want it? I was just going to throw it in with a bunch of computers going to ecycle.  I allowed as I would find it useful and set it aside.

An HP45! Yes, the very same model my vo-tech instructor used to flaunt while checking our (slide-rule-calculated) quiz and test answers. I haven't seen one in more than forty years.  It cost 395USD in 1973 and was the first calculator to have a shift key

Happily, the battery (last changed in 1986) didn't leak. Tomorrow I will figure out how to build a replacement battery pack and put it back into daily use.

let me make a useful suggestion. 

those things have a way of slipping out of a pocket and landing smack in the middle of what would otherwise be a interesting TEA picture.

get a good sharp 3/16" drill bit and place a hole between the 7 and 8 key.  slip some paracord thru the opening and tie it securely.  make the other end of the cord fast to something stout. (the trailer hitch on a pickup comes to mind).

problem solved.

ps  that's why we are here...….to help people with their addictions...….and rpn is a disease.

Only 1 problem with your post, that calculator regardless of it being RPN is never fitting anyone's pocket

Sent from my POT-LX1 using Tapatalk

[beanflying]

Someone should really make @Med a nice 3DP Fan mount for that butchered horror show hack 

I'm game. What you got? 

I need something dimensionally to work from and I don't own a Tek of that persuasion   Failing that you do the drawings and someone might make it for you 

After midnight and I am waiting for the last Tek foot Cap to come off the printer  Foreground is the 100% 3DP rear is the complete surviving original one.

You fuckers; now you're ganging up on me. You're gonna make me drag out my parts mule and figure out what he needs to fix it right, aren't ya? 

Bean, maybe you should move that OE foot up to the top row, so it's not the one that always gets whacked when you pick the beast up. That worked for several years on my 454 before the remaining ones crumbled of their own accord...

mnem
*Shuffle-shuffle... rummage-rummage...*

I think it only appropriate that he who has stirred the pot the most should offer a solution 

Not worried about losing the last cap my replacement one is a drop in on the old base plastic part. Refer Knobs and Feet thread latest post for the STL's and Fusion drawings.

[Specmaster]

Ok then here the photos of the 2 Solartron 7150 plus meters that I managed to win at last weeks auction.

Those two are a stunning catch, nice one!

I would have been worried by the fact they came from RAF Sealand. Being right by the sea in North Wales is hardly a friendly environment for any test equipment. The fact that the cases are pretty much sealed on the Solartrons is probably what saved them from becoming salty horrors inside.

I'm calling today a winner. Took the car for its yearly inspection and it sailed through with no problems. Then I paid a visit to the local DHL depot to pick this up rather than wait until after Easter:



Double win!

Oh yeh, enjoy your meter, I've got the same model, seems odd having effectively a bench meter capability in a handheld. It's a awesome meter indeed.

Sent from my POT-LX1 using Tapatalk

[grizewald]

Oh yeh, enjoy your meter, I've got the same model, seems odd having effectively a bench meter capability in a handheld. It's a awesome meter indeed.

I realised that three hand held meters wasn't quite enough, particularly when one of the three can't be trusted on high voltage stuff (the UT61E). After reading your and other's praise of the BM867s and seeing how it's built inside to be truly deserving of a Cat IV 1000V rating, choosing it was a no-brainer. The fact that it's also very reasonably priced at welectron.com and could be in my hands within 72 hours made my mind up.

It's a hefty beast, but I'm sure it has Fluke like levels of tolerance to being abused. 

[tggzzz]

An HP45! Yes, the very same model my vo-tech instructor used to flaunt while checking our (slide-rule-calculated) quiz and test answers. I haven't seen one in more than forty years.  It cost 395USD in 1973 and was the first calculator to have a shift key

Happily, the battery (last changed in 1986) didn't leak. Tomorrow I will figure out how to build a replacement battery pack and put it back into daily use.

let me make a useful suggestion. 

those things have a way of slipping out of a pocket and landing smack in the middle of what would otherwise be a interesting TEA picture.

get a good sharp 3/16" drill bit and place a hole between the 7 and 8 key.  slip some paracord thru the opening and tie it securely.  make the other end of the cord fast to something stout. (the trailer hitch on a pickup comes to mind).

problem solved.

ps  that's why we are here...….to help people with their addictions...….and rpn is a disease.

Only 1 problem with your post, that calculator regardless of it being RPN is never fitting anyone's pocket

Sent from my POT-LX1 using Tapatalk

Nice try, but no cigar...

From http://codex99.com/design/the-hp35.html
"In what has to be one of the most famous design briefs in electronics history, Bill Hewlett asked Osborne and Cochran to shrink the 9100. “I want it to be a tenth of the volume, ten times as fast and cost a tenth as much.” Where Hewlett wanted the 9100 to fit in his secretary’s desk return, he wanted this new device to fit in his shirt pocket."

Here's my first, and probably last selfie, of my HP35 in my shirt pocket

Sent from my computer using WhackAKey.

[Specmaster]

An HP45! Yes, the very same model my vo-tech instructor used to flaunt while checking our (slide-rule-calculated) quiz and test answers. I haven't seen one in more than forty years.  It cost 395USD in 1973 and was the first calculator to have a shift key

Happily, the battery (last changed in 1986) didn't leak. Tomorrow I will figure out how to build a replacement battery pack and put it back into daily use.

let me make a useful suggestion. 

those things have a way of slipping out of a pocket and landing smack in the middle of what would otherwise be a interesting TEA picture.

get a good sharp 3/16" drill bit and place a hole between the 7 and 8 key.  slip some paracord thru the opening and tie it securely.  make the other end of the cord fast to something stout. (the trailer hitch on a pickup comes to mind).

problem solved.

ps  that's why we are here...….to help people with their addictions...….and rpn is a disease.

Only 1 problem with your post, that calculator regardless of it being RPN is never fitting anyone's pocket

Sent from my POT-LX1 using Tapatalk

Nice try, but no cigar...

From http://codex99.com/design/the-hp35.html
"In what has to be one of the most famous design briefs in electronics history, Bill Hewlett asked Osborne and Cochran to shrink the 9100. “I want it to be a tenth of the volume, ten times as fast and cost a tenth as much.” Where Hewlett wanted the 9100 to fit in his secretary’s desk return, he wanted this new device to fit in his shirt pocket."

Here's my first, and probably last selfie, of my HP35 in my shirt pocket

Sent from my computer using WhackAKey.

Well as it appens I have 2 of the old style HP calcs, one takes plug in cartridges and the other has the magnetic card reader/writer and if IIRC another standard scientific one, like your black one and I'd rather not pop any of them in my pocket. So I have some RPN calcs (HP not working, project's in waiting) but I do have somewhere a working Sinclair Scientific calculator which is RPN but prefer to use a normal calculator.

Sent from my POT-LX1 using Tapatalk

[wch]

An HP45! Yes, the very same model my vo-tech instructor used to flaunt while checking our (slide-rule-calculated) quiz and test answers. I haven't seen one in more than forty years.  It cost 395USD in 1973 and was the first calculator to have a shift key

Happily, the battery (last changed in 1986) didn't leak. Tomorrow I will figure out how to build a replacement battery pack and put it back into daily use.

let me make a useful suggestion. 

those things have a way of slipping out of a pocket and landing smack in the middle of what would otherwise be a interesting TEA picture.

get a good sharp 3/16" drill bit and place a hole between the 7 and 8 key.  slip some paracord thru the opening and tie it securely.  make the other end of the cord fast to something stout. (the trailer hitch on a pickup comes to mind).

problem solved.

ps  that's why we are here...….to help people with their addictions...….and rpn is a disease.

Only 1 problem with your post, that calculator regardless of it being RPN is never fitting anyone's pocket

Sent from my POT-LX1 using Tapatalk

Nice try, but no cigar...

From http://codex99.com/design/the-hp35.html
"In what has to be one of the most famous design briefs in electronics history, Bill Hewlett asked Osborne and Cochran to shrink the 9100. “I want it to be a tenth of the volume, ten times as fast and cost a tenth as much.” Where Hewlett wanted the 9100 to fit in his secretary’s desk return, he wanted this new device to fit in his shirt pocket."

Here's my first, and probably last selfie, of my HP35 in my shirt pocket

Sent from my computer using WhackAKey.

Well as it appens I have 2 of the old style HP calcs, one takes plug in cartridges and the other has the magnetic card reader/writer and if IIRC another standard scientific one, like your black one and I'd rather not pop any of them in my pocket. So I have some RPN calcs (HP not working, project's in waiting) but I do have somewhere a working Sinclair Scientific calculator which is RPN but prefer to use a normal calculator.

Sent from my POT-LX1 using Tapatalk

wait.... they make shirts with pockets?

[GregDunn]

Spent the evening with the guy who saved a workshop of electronics from a real estate agent's dumpster. Tested scopes, service monitors, power supplies and meters. I came away with a Fluke 8800 (working),  HP3400A (not working), HP PSU (not working, don't remember the number) and he has three scopes, two service monitors, and a power supply to sell on ebay.

The find of the evening came while we were sorting through boxes of printer switches, random power cords, etc:



Damn if it didn't have the AC adapter still attached and lit up when I hit the power switch.  Do you want it? I was just going to throw it in with a bunch of computers going to ecycle.  I allowed as I would find it useful and set it aside.

An HP45! Yes, the very same model my vo-tech instructor used to flaunt while checking our (slide-rule-calculated) quiz and test answers. I haven't seen one in more than forty years.  It cost 395USD in 1973 and was the first calculator to have a shift key

Happily, the battery (last changed in 1986) didn't leak. Tomorrow I will figure out how to build a replacement battery pack and put it back into daily use.

let me make a useful suggestion. 

those things have a way of slipping out of a pocket and landing smack in the middle of what would otherwise be a interesting TEA picture.

get a good sharp 3/16" drill bit and place a hole between the 7 and 8 key.  slip some paracord thru the opening and tie it securely.  make the other end of the cord fast to something stout. (the trailer hitch on a pickup comes to mind).

problem solved.

ps  that's why we are here...….to help people with their addictions...….and rpn is a disease.

Only 1 problem with your post, that calculator regardless of it being RPN is never fitting anyone's pocket

Sent from my POT-LX1 using Tapatalk

You're aware, aren't you, that when Bill Hewlett received a sample of the HP35, the first thing he checked was whether it fit in the pocket of his dress shirt?     Many of us nerds followed suit and carried ours around that way, because the belt pouch was often too inconvenient or awkward to reach.  Mine, at least, never fell out.  Not that it particularly mattered, though, because unlike the TI/Casio calcs, an HP wouldn't explode into its component parts if it did happen to land on the floor.   

Edit: ninja'd.   

[Specmaster]

Continuing with the HP calculator theme, somewhere in the garage I seem to remember I have the rather large printer that some of them could be connected to and the standard scientific one did work till the battery died. I'll have to hunt down the ebay replacement battery packs and get it working again once I find it. I had heard so much about how wonderful they were supposed to be but TBH if I want a calculator with red LEDs I prefer to use my old but trusty 50 year old Commodore scientific calculator with soft touch buttons and an = button

Sent from my POT-LX1 using Tapatalk

[Neomys Sapiens]

Not too worried about surge as we have a surge protector built into our CU. Currently looking at these: https://www.brennenstuhl.com/en-AE/products/extension-leads/premium-line-extension-socket-6-way-5m-05vv-f-3g1-25-black-lightgrey-with-plug-gb ... CPC sell them.  Made in Germany instead of China

Have you tried looking for the 'Knürr' brand?

[tggzzz]

I do have somewhere a working Sinclair Scientific calculator which is RPN but prefer to use a normal calculator.

Sent from my POT-LX1 using Tapatalk

I too have a working Sinclair Scientific - well, it works as well as it ever did, and better than many things uncle Clive did.

Sent from my computer using GropeAMouse.

[bd139]

If he could work out a way to make it catch fire I'm sure it would

Just swapped the OCXO board I made into my other Racal 9915 as the transformer doesn't sound like an angry bee. All good. Silence at last! And LEDs.



ESR on the caps in it tested good unlike the old one. I suspect that contributed to the irritating noise. Alas it was cheaper to transplant into the parts mule than replace the caps.

[med6753]

All this talk of calculators. Well, here's mine. Fit's anywhere. Does what I want. No batteries to leak or change. 

[med6753]

I had this discussion the other day... Why do you use this old stuff when you can buy a brand x fill-in-the-blank that does all that, is firmware upgradable, weighs a tenth as much, and has a color screen and wifi, to boot? Because...

• dollar for dollar, it generally works better, especially at the limits,
• it is often more reliable in the oops-i-shouldn't-have-done-that sense,
• it is thoroughly documented with schematics, BOMs, test procedures, and almost always, theory of operation information,
• it is repairable by design,
• it is more carefully manufactured,
• it was designed by people that used what they built, every single day.

I am glad I own a Siglent SA that, for 1300USD, doesn't take a lot of square inches of bench, and works well enough for ninety-five percent of what I do. But it is, for the most part, an unfathomable, unrepairable, unmodifiable (except by accident) black box. More importantly, it is not a joy to operate because Siglent's objectives are quite different from those of the people that designed and built my big, heavy, beautiful 475 and it shows in every way.

At this point, the eyes of my young interlocutor glazed over, and I stopped ranting. 

And, yes, I need coffee.

Ain't that the truth. If my Siglent SDS 1052DL DSO or SDM 3055 DMM decided to take a dump there's basically 2 options. Trash it or bend over and send back for repair. Neither option sit's well with me. I'd rather maintain and repair my own stuff. And with the SDM 3055...I can't even calibrate it, unless I want to spend a fortune on a Fluke calibrator. So when that day comes I'm going to have to search out the best price. But it won't be cheap.